Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anning and Samantha and what kind of
Speaker 1: stuff I never told your prediction if I heart radios
Speaker 1: have to park. Today we are talking about emotional Labor
Speaker 1: Holiday edition. Um if if you all remember a while back,
Speaker 1: virgin I did an episode on emotional labor. But today
Speaker 1: we're focusing specifically on the holidays and the work that
Speaker 1: a lot of women do to make the holidays happen.
Speaker 1: And Samantha and I have already talked about how the
Speaker 1: holidays are a bit of a source of stress for us.
Speaker 1: I like the holidays, I'll put that out there, but
Speaker 1: they are extremely strudualed. They are not relaxing for me
Speaker 1: at all. I have in general problem relaxing. So um
Speaker 1: so in my case, when I look at what's stressing me,
Speaker 1: it's the planning, the shopping them making a food plus
Speaker 1: vegetarian because of my little brother, getting the timing of
Speaker 1: everything right, bringing all the decorations down from the attic,
Speaker 1: and that's down sets of stairs, um, setting them up,
Speaker 1: getting the tree, it's setting that up, the lights, the ornaments,
Speaker 1: hanging outside lights, finding gifts, wrapping them, writing cards, cleaning,
Speaker 1: and then the worst part putting everything away. Stressed me
Speaker 1: on just typing it. Yeah, I don't do any of
Speaker 1: those stuff, and I'm still stressed. Apparently, like all of
Speaker 1: my family members getting gifts cards, I am the best, worst, worst,
Speaker 1: best gift giver because you know, I give them what
Speaker 1: they want, but it's not very creative. Oh, we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about that a little bit more. That's interesting, I
Speaker 1: will say. I'm just gonna throw this out here. I
Speaker 1: from the research I read, a lot of people do
Speaker 1: like gift cards. I don't do not. I'd rather get
Speaker 1: no gift at all. I would rather have something. If
Speaker 1: you were going to give me a gift card, I
Speaker 1: wanted to be something that I will use. So if
Speaker 1: you give me a card to Panera Starbucks, not gonna
Speaker 1: be as happy. Oh no, because I don't go to
Speaker 1: those places getting right, although it don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: sometimes soup is delicious. See what I don't like about
Speaker 1: gift cards. I'm wondering if any of my relatives are
Speaker 1: gonna listen to this. Well, I'll say it. I don't
Speaker 1: like that you can't. I don't know how much is
Speaker 1: on it, and I don't like the moment of I
Speaker 1: have no idea how much is this gonna get me right,
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to bank gift cards, because I
Speaker 1: really would just probably have money or check. That's going
Speaker 1: to be what it is. Um, I think I probably
Speaker 1: have at least twenty seven dollars on past gift cards.
Speaker 1: But I just, yeah, it is. It is a nice
Speaker 1: little trick because either you can't spend it all right,
Speaker 1: or you're gonna spend that and then extra on top
Speaker 1: of that. It's like a gimmick. It is a gimmick.
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry we're coming out strong gift cards. I
Speaker 1: like gift cards, Like I said, oh well, agreed to
Speaker 1: disagree on this point, um. Numerous studies have found that
Speaker 1: women experience and increase in psychological stress during the holidays
Speaker 1: greater than what men experience, and that this increase in
Speaker 1: stress is the worst in the US. I actually really
Speaker 1: enjoyed one of the interview subjects, um. Male interview subject.
Speaker 1: When asked about this, he said, I thought people feel
Speaker 1: stressed in the holidays. I thought they were like relaxing.
Speaker 1: I don't, I've never heard of it. I wanted to
Speaker 1: hug him and be like, oh, you wonderful, someone's really
Speaker 1: been making this happen. But being very happy and blessed
Speaker 1: hashtag blest hashtag blust um from a two thousand six
Speaker 1: survey conducted by Greenberg, Quinnian Rosner quote, Holiday stress has
Speaker 1: a particular impact on women, who take charge of many
Speaker 1: of the holiday celebrations, particularly the tash related to preparing
Speaker 1: meals and decorating the home. Women are more likely than
Speaker 1: men to report an increase of stress during the holiday season.
Speaker 1: In addition, they have a harder time relaxing during the
Speaker 1: holidays and are more likely to fall into bad habits
Speaker 1: to manage their stress, like comfort eating. Women are much
Speaker 1: more likely to shoulder the work burden during family celebrations.
Speaker 1: During Thanksgiving, women are nearly twice as likely to report
Speaker 1: that they will cook sixty six percent of women versus
Speaker 1: thirty percent of men, shot for food of women versus
Speaker 1: thirty two percent of men, and clean dirty dishes seventy
Speaker 1: percent of women versus forty one percent of men. Men,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, are nearly twice as likely as
Speaker 1: women to report that they will watch football ties percent
Speaker 1: of women versus forty percent of men. So that's the
Speaker 1: end of the quote. That was a whole big quote um.
Speaker 1: Only a quarter of women feel that they can roll.
Speaker 1: Lax during the holidays was another thing. It found um
Speaker 1: and the main reasons women gave for their stress were money,
Speaker 1: pressure of buying and wrapping gifts, and lack of time.
Speaker 1: Another study found women are twice as likely yeah to
Speaker 1: be behind the holiday feast. Oh yeah, my mom is
Speaker 1: definitely a prime example. Yeah, of all of these things.
Speaker 1: My mom gets very, very very stressed out. And then
Speaker 1: my dad gets stressed out watching her, and so he
Speaker 1: gets angry and will like be a little snyled with her,
Speaker 1: and then she will get more angry and more anxious
Speaker 1: because of that, and eventually called him a dess, which
Speaker 1: is a holiday tradition. And I'm really excited. I hope.
Speaker 1: I'm sure my niece may actually hear this. Please don't
Speaker 1: report this to my mother, but it's become a kind
Speaker 1: of a holiday tradition where she finally just breaks and
Speaker 1: become very country and call him as um and then
Speaker 1: she uh. But she has this whole expectation that it
Speaker 1: must be perfect and these are the things that she
Speaker 1: has to do. She doesn't want to ask anybody for help.
Speaker 1: It's probably got to the point that my sister and
Speaker 1: sister in laws are able to take a little bit
Speaker 1: of the responsibility, and she'll allow it. But she also
Speaker 1: decorates in themes. So she decorates in all of the homes.
Speaker 1: And it is like Christmas threw up everywhere everywhere, Yes,
Speaker 1: because one side maybe like country quaint Christmas and the
Speaker 1: others and it's like fancy French Christmas. Like it's just absurd.
Speaker 1: And I walk in. There's wreaths at the beginning, there's
Speaker 1: probably lights already on the outside. You go in and
Speaker 1: there is the fake snow, cotton snow everywhere, a little
Speaker 1: bit of glitter and all these figuring stockings everywhere. It
Speaker 1: is a thing and and and I feel, yes, I've
Speaker 1: been very luckily lucky and privileged to be able to
Speaker 1: celebrate it that way. But to me, I'm like, that's
Speaker 1: not worth it. Yeah, and I'll say that's a lot
Speaker 1: more than what I am doing. I know my mother
Speaker 1: enjoys the stuff I think well to an extent, to
Speaker 1: an extent, and that that is something to say, is
Speaker 1: that some women really enjoyed in it. Um And it
Speaker 1: makes me stressed out because I'm not creative and I'm
Speaker 1: not very what's the word cutesie and homie, So I
Speaker 1: have no knowledge of doing that. I have always get
Speaker 1: the sag Charlie Brown tree because I think it's fantastic,
Speaker 1: and a few little, um ridiculous trinkets on there, and
Speaker 1: I think I bought some shiny balls, yes um, to
Speaker 1: put on their red silver and gold, because I don't
Speaker 1: like the typical um you know, you know. And then
Speaker 1: that's it. And then my friend bought me two little
Speaker 1: baby stockings for myself and my dog. That's cute, right,
Speaker 1: I don't buy that for myself. My UM. I put
Speaker 1: up a tiny sad Charlie Brown tree and my little
Speaker 1: apartment that you've seen, um, and all of my ornaments
Speaker 1: are Harry Potter doctor who like Captain America. So it's
Speaker 1: a very personalized tree, which I like. UM. Kind of
Speaker 1: going back to what you were saying about your dad
Speaker 1: getting stress watching your mom, My dad used to it's
Speaker 1: almost like he wanted to be involved, especially with shopping,
Speaker 1: and then he would get so impatient and annoyed with
Speaker 1: the shopping that we would have to leave early and
Speaker 1: we didn't even get done what we had to get done. Right,
Speaker 1: So we're gonna come back and talk to the talk
Speaker 1: more about that in a little bit um. But okay,
Speaker 1: no surprise that this added stress we're talking about is
Speaker 1: not good for our health. Research shows that it can
Speaker 1: lead to anxiety and depression, specifically research into holiday stress. Um.
Speaker 1: There's a pressure to always do more. I should be
Speaker 1: doing this or that, especially when children are evolved. UM.
Speaker 1: Feeling like a failure, like you're not meeting these standards
Speaker 1: that you're you're putting on yourself or that you feel
Speaker 1: like society is placing on you. Um is not a
Speaker 1: good mental state, not at all. No, Alright, So what
Speaker 1: are we talking about? What's going on here? Several things? Actually,
Speaker 1: so a quick recap for me as well, because I
Speaker 1: wasn't here to do the emotional labor episode. But emotional
Speaker 1: labor means, essentially is unpaid, usually unnoticed emotional labor we
Speaker 1: do for those around us to keep them comfortable and happy,
Speaker 1: and women do the bulk of it, or they do
Speaker 1: in our pop culture definition. The term emotional labor was
Speaker 1: originally coined in nineteen seventy nine by Arlie Russell hush
Speaker 1: Child and apply to what the labor workers in the
Speaker 1: service industry due to ensure a customer's happiness by putting
Speaker 1: on a happy face basically. So she argues that we
Speaker 1: overuse it these days and that way severely modeled the
Speaker 1: original definition. But she does agree that there is something
Speaker 1: happening and we don't quite have the language to express.
Speaker 1: When we talk about women and emotional labor. In her mind,
Speaker 1: were conflating perfectionism and simple labor, sometimes mental with emotional labor.
Speaker 1: Emotional labor does very culturally some things American's point to
Speaker 1: as emotional labor. Other cultures would view differently, And we
Speaker 1: would love to hear any of the differences from our listeners.
Speaker 1: So if y'all know or can say any of the differences,
Speaker 1: please let us know. Yes, please, So during the holidays,
Speaker 1: this work, emotional, mental, or just labor, whatever you want
Speaker 1: to call it, increases exponentially. The planning part is really key.
Speaker 1: That that background mental energy that you're expending on an
Speaker 1: enormous scope of people, gifts, food, decorations, all of those things.
Speaker 1: The expectation is for the holidays to be perfect and magical. Um.
Speaker 1: If they aren't, which of course they won't be perfect, um,
Speaker 1: it feels like failing, and that is a lot of pressure.
Speaker 1: Making the holidays happen is work, and largely it is
Speaker 1: and has been women's work. It's worked. Yes, some women
Speaker 1: really love um, but others not so much. Are Maybe
Speaker 1: it's just overwhelming and exhausting. Maybe like me, it's something
Speaker 1: I do enjoy, but it's a lot. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: don't enjoy, so I try to avoid it at all costs. Yes, well,
Speaker 1: it seems like you've been fairly successful. You're not failing,
Speaker 1: you're succeeding and succeeding and not caring. There you go. Historically,
Speaker 1: women have been responsible for making the holidays happen, going
Speaker 1: back to the eighteenth century and probably even earlier before
Speaker 1: women entered the workforce, is a part it was a
Speaker 1: part of their duties as a housewife. This duty has
Speaker 1: been solidified through various time periods and by various and atitutions,
Speaker 1: cultural movements, and societal constructs like the cult of domesticity,
Speaker 1: the cultivated image of the perfect housewife and mother, and
Speaker 1: even religion. Kirk Cameron recently posted a video directed at
Speaker 1: women in which she said, let your children, your family
Speaker 1: see your joy in the way that you decorate your
Speaker 1: home this Christmas, and the food that you cook, the
Speaker 1: songs you sing, the stories you tell, and the traditions
Speaker 1: you keep in several Christian circles. This is still viewed
Speaker 1: all of those things still viewed as a women's duty
Speaker 1: to make Christmas run smoothly for her family. Oh that
Speaker 1: quote made me nauseous. It's not good. It's really good.
Speaker 1: Then love it and you do you. But yeah, don't
Speaker 1: face your status and whether or not you're doing well
Speaker 1: as a parent or a wife on that bs. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: and even as women have gotten jobs, the expectation that
Speaker 1: will take charge of the holidays hasn't changed. Oh and also,
Speaker 1: just to be clear, being a housewife is a job.
Speaker 1: It's a hard job. It is very hard. It's just
Speaker 1: an unpaid and unvalued wine. Um. And yeah, why is
Speaker 1: it that women's work isn't seen as real work. It's
Speaker 1: just something we're expected to do without pay, without recognition,
Speaker 1: and perhaps it might even cost us to do it.
Speaker 1: M hmm. Interesting. Christmas is expensive? It is so expensive?
Speaker 1: Are expensive? Yes, we're going to get more into that.
Speaker 1: As we've discussed on the show, women are still doing
Speaker 1: more of the housework when compared to men in heterosexual
Speaker 1: relationships or situations. They also are doing more of the
Speaker 1: household budgeting, which is a major headache during the holidays obviously,
Speaker 1: and also obvious, being responsible for gift and thoughtful ones
Speaker 1: can put a dent in a woman's finances, a huge
Speaker 1: dead Going back to those top reasons for holiday stress,
Speaker 1: two of them, gift giving and money are all wrapped
Speaker 1: up into this, and this further penalizes lower and middle
Speaker 1: class women who might be word seem more than one
Speaker 1: job and and able to afford childcare or other help
Speaker 1: that could alleviate some holiday stress. So women spend considerably
Speaker 1: more time and money when it comes to goes, more
Speaker 1: out of buying for a wider network of people than
Speaker 1: a one on one comparison. Yeah, so to kind of
Speaker 1: explain that a bit more, we did want to focus
Speaker 1: on gift giving for a second because that is such
Speaker 1: a huge part of holiday stress. Wait wait wait wait
Speaker 1: wait wait wait wait way back. Host pass host Kristen
Speaker 1: and Molly did an episode on whether men or women
Speaker 1: were are better at gift giving, So you can find
Speaker 1: that an archive if you want. But right now, brief overview,
Speaker 1: there is actually a decent amount of research around gender
Speaker 1: differences and gift giving um and that research has found
Speaker 1: that in general, gift giving is important to our social
Speaker 1: relationships around the world. Bad gifts can negatively impact relationships,
Speaker 1: and men are far more judgmental and bad gifts, while
Speaker 1: women are more likely to downplay disappointment to protect the
Speaker 1: relateationship and the other person's feelings. And women by gifts
Speaker 1: for a wider group of friends UM, so they spend
Speaker 1: more money on gifts and they are generally better at
Speaker 1: selecting gifts. This sort of goes back to what we
Speaker 1: discussed in our original Emotional Labor episode that women are
Speaker 1: more willing to put in the work and invest in
Speaker 1: friend groups UM other than men. That that goes back
Speaker 1: to I know we brought it up recently in our
Speaker 1: heartbreak episode, but how female whitterwers generally have more positive
Speaker 1: health outcomes than male wittowers and they think it has
Speaker 1: to do with this wider support group UM. The research
Speaker 1: suggests that it has to do with this better gift
Speaker 1: giving has to do with interpersonal interest, which is having
Speaker 1: an interest in other people, and interpersonal reactivity, which is
Speaker 1: the ability to take on another person's perspective. It could
Speaker 1: also have to do with reputation um or to create
Speaker 1: a sense of superiority or indebtedness, or to show off
Speaker 1: and or this expect asia that we put on women
Speaker 1: that we keep talking about that you have to be
Speaker 1: good at these things. Yeah. Um. The research has also
Speaker 1: found women are both more likely to give and to receive,
Speaker 1: and that men with more egalitarian views and gay men
Speaker 1: were more likely to be more involved in gift giving.
Speaker 1: One study found that male to male gifts only accounted
Speaker 1: for four percent of gift giving. It also found about
Speaker 1: a lot of male gift giving. Um. In a lot
Speaker 1: of male gift giving, the gift is actually picked out
Speaker 1: and sometimes purchased and rapt by the woman. In the
Speaker 1: context of heterosexual relationships, make smart hurt. If that's how
Speaker 1: you like it to be, great, Well, no presents, bro,
Speaker 1: My mom definitely did this, and you know that the
Speaker 1: letter always says, like in her handwriting to Susan from Michael, like,
Speaker 1: I do have a tradition where my father sends me
Speaker 1: Valentine's Day candy and has for years, and he's so
Speaker 1: proud of the fact that he has picked out the
Speaker 1: candy for me specific whatever, hand picked and make sure
Speaker 1: to tell me I picked this out for you, so
Speaker 1: I know that it wasn't my mother, right right, right, right. Um.
Speaker 1: Yet another study into gift giving found women view gift
Speaker 1: giving as a responsibility and obligation to be checked off
Speaker 1: of a list that they sometimes enjoy and sometimes don't,
Speaker 1: whereas men see it as a chance to get something
Speaker 1: for someone else that brings them as in the men pleasure.
Speaker 1: A lot of these studies were conducted in Western societies,
Speaker 1: though so again would love to hear from listeners from elsewhere.
Speaker 1: From a study called The Perfect Present, Gift Giving and
Speaker 1: gender norms among gifters, women ruled they not only spend
Speaker 1: more time on gifts and give gifts to more people,
Speaker 1: but they also invest more of their ideas of themselves
Speaker 1: and the relationships in the process. This is part of
Speaker 1: what makes women the single largest consumer group worldwide. If
Speaker 1: we align these fightings with poverty statistics, we can extrapolate
Speaker 1: that gender expectations and social pressures around gifting stress women
Speaker 1: both economic and psychically. Poverty rates are higher among women,
Speaker 1: and more than half of all children living in poverty
Speaker 1: are cared for primarily by their mothers. The average person
Speaker 1: celebrating Christmas, Kwanza and Orhankah will spend eight hundred and
Speaker 1: four dollars and forty two cents up nearly five percent
Speaker 1: over last year's actual seven sixty seven dollars and twenty
Speaker 1: seven cents according to Prosper Insights and Analytic study. We
Speaker 1: could also bring into the conversation ginger toys and the
Speaker 1: impact that it has on reinforcing ginger contracts. And you
Speaker 1: can listen to our Action Figure episodes for more on that. Yes,
Speaker 1: and then there's the whole thing of giving women sexy
Speaker 1: lingree which they might totally be into, but in straight relationships,
Speaker 1: unless a woman specifically asked for it. To me, it
Speaker 1: feels like it might be more of a gift or
Speaker 1: the dude are like also a vacuum or something, and
Speaker 1: less again the person specifically asked for it enthusiastically. I
Speaker 1: really want this, right, Yeah, I really want to air
Speaker 1: fire oven. Oh she said it here, noted Um. And
Speaker 1: there's a great example of this whole thing in The
Speaker 1: Simpsons when Homer buys Marge a bowling ball that has
Speaker 1: his name engraved in it and it's cut to fit
Speaker 1: his fingers perfect. Yes. Um. In all fairness, I'll be fair,
Speaker 1: I was guilty of try and convince my little brother
Speaker 1: he really wanted whatever video game I really wanted when
Speaker 1: we were children and he usually did. We had similar taste,
Speaker 1: but I'd be lying if I said I was being
Speaker 1: al true. Started one in that game, I usually so
Speaker 1: long and I'm like, well, I gotta put some things
Speaker 1: on his right, Like I love you so much, so
Speaker 1: you would love this gift. You would really dig it,
Speaker 1: um anecdotally continued Anecdotally, my dad never wrapped gifts, and
Speaker 1: the stuff he gave me was usually a random assortment
Speaker 1: of items, like a football a few years ago. Uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know that sometimes I liked a lot of times
Speaker 1: I didn't. I do the b my bee. That was
Speaker 1: one of the random gifts that I think he just
Speaker 1: didn't think I'd like, but I really did. My mom,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, gets me stuff based on something
Speaker 1: I said in a random conversation months ago. I know.
Speaker 1: A lot of the days have also shown that, um,
Speaker 1: women shot for Christmas all year round. Men started like
Speaker 1: the week of Christmas, And that was definitely my mother.
Speaker 1: She she shops all year round. She sees a good cell,
Speaker 1: she will get it. Yeah, that is what I've discovered
Speaker 1: for me. She actually buys based on past likes. So
Speaker 1: I may no longer like it, but it has a
Speaker 1: tradition to it still end up getting it. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like those wooden angels I said one time I
Speaker 1: liked one. Yeah, I don't know what to do with them.
Speaker 1: I haven't did the same thing. I actually don't even
Speaker 1: remember saying I like teacups and I can't drink tea,
Speaker 1: but she can't see a teacup every year, so it's thoughtful.
Speaker 1: It is thoughtful, and they're pretty. I kind of use
Speaker 1: them as a decoration. Um. I remember once my ex boyfriend,
Speaker 1: I can't remember why, but he was showing me a
Speaker 1: screenshot of his laptop and it was around Christmas time,
Speaker 1: and one of the tabs was how to wrap a gift,
Speaker 1: and that made me laugh. I'm awful at wrapping gifts.
Speaker 1: And my mother is Queen. She is the Martha Stewart
Speaker 1: of wrapping is always a piece of art. I really
Speaker 1: wish I could show you. I will. I'll take this,
Speaker 1: but all of us feel guilty in trying to open
Speaker 1: these presents because it's so elaborately beautiful. Yeah, and I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna put some brown tape on it. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'll put the newspaper here and my name onto the bag. Awesome.
Speaker 1: I almost say, gift bags one my favorite thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like gift bags and tissue paper, I do. Um. I
Speaker 1: wrapped my mom's gift because she wraps mine and I
Speaker 1: used to be really good at wrapping. And something's gone
Speaker 1: terribly wrong. I don't know. I lost it somewhere. I
Speaker 1: lost my mojo. Um. One year. I got pretty much
Speaker 1: everyone in my life a gift a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: and that was a very expensive endeavor. Um. But I
Speaker 1: have this note on my phone that I opened when
Speaker 1: anyone mentions something that I think would be a good
Speaker 1: gift for them. So it kind of just I'm more
Speaker 1: of someone I would rather get a gift that I
Speaker 1: know you'll really love than just buy you something because
Speaker 1: it's Christmas time. Um, and I've got to get you something.
Speaker 1: Thus far, you've done really well with my gifts. Yes,
Speaker 1: I just take you off for drinks. Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1: I'd rather have that almost always. UM. And I do
Speaker 1: want to say here, I have plenty, plenty, plenty of
Speaker 1: female friends who are terrible at gifts. Apologies, you know
Speaker 1: who you are. UM to me again, I love drinks,
Speaker 1: that's number one. UM. And I have a few male
Speaker 1: friends who are really great at them. Um. So these
Speaker 1: are these are generalities were supported by research, but there's
Speaker 1: still kind of there are obviously exceptions. Um. And it's
Speaker 1: really the societal expectation and pressure that's the heart of
Speaker 1: the issue here. If that's something that you love to do,
Speaker 1: it's great. I used to be really good at it
Speaker 1: and very thoughtful. I just got really tired. It's exhausting.
Speaker 1: It's probably the main point of this episode. Could really
Speaker 1: just be exhausting. That's getting older. It's harder and harder
Speaker 1: to get you something that you may not already have
Speaker 1: bought yourself, or that you you know you don't necessarily need.
Speaker 1: It's kind of our because it's I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 1: have everything? What is what do you give someone who
Speaker 1: has everything? Conversation? In our society, we assume that it's
Speaker 1: in women's nature to be more thoughtful and more able
Speaker 1: to manage the emotions of others. It comes with the
Speaker 1: territory of being emotional, which we all know isn't true.
Speaker 1: These things don't just come naturally or easily for all
Speaker 1: of us. Also, these emotions of ours only seem to
Speaker 1: be good when they're boosting men in some way. And
Speaker 1: other studies have found because women are painted as more
Speaker 1: caring and giving, they feel the need to perceive themselves
Speaker 1: that way. So nevertheless, then the expectation contributors to an
Speaker 1: environment that rewards been for doing what women are simply
Speaker 1: expected to do and punished for not doing it. And
Speaker 1: studies have found that women do a brunt of the
Speaker 1: work of kinship that is, an interpersonal network of family
Speaker 1: and friends, whether they are hers or not, basically the
Speaker 1: work of maintaining social ties, which absolutely is work in
Speaker 1: the heterosexual context. If a wife or mom dies, the
Speaker 1: work is left undone and it was spoken about and
Speaker 1: the emotional labor episode. And one study posits that because
Speaker 1: the holidays are primarily about children and traditionally children have
Speaker 1: been women's responsibilities by proxy, the holidays um and making
Speaker 1: the magical has always become or is women's responsibilities. Yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: I found a really interesting study about the work behind
Speaker 1: what we culturally conceive as love that really made me
Speaker 1: think about the gender differences and how we expect people
Speaker 1: to express love for women. I would argue that this
Speaker 1: planning of the holidays has gotten twisted up with how
Speaker 1: we demonstrate our love and at the same time our
Speaker 1: value like look at how much I'm contributing. UM. And
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's wrong if that's how someone truly
Speaker 1: wants to show their love, but the obligation to do
Speaker 1: so or else be judged as not loving or caring,
Speaker 1: that's that's a problem um for me. Uh My brothers,
Speaker 1: I'll say, they will help if I ask with all
Speaker 1: of these things, the decorations in particular, but then it's
Speaker 1: my responsibility to delegate to show them how to do everything. Um,
Speaker 1: and them growing increasingly, we're annoyed. Uh. And all the while,
Speaker 1: the expectation is that I am the one that will
Speaker 1: do it, and that helping me is something that they do.
Speaker 1: I have the kindness of their hearts, um, and it
Speaker 1: should be complimented, right whereas I'm just gonna I guess
Speaker 1: spent my day doing this anyway. UM. And now we've
Speaker 1: got to talk about the kids, all the children, the children.
Speaker 1: But first we've got to take a quick break for
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor. And we're back. Thank you sponsor. Okay,
Speaker 1: So I'm a single lady, are you Yeah? And I've
Speaker 1: got enough stress, Thank you very much. UM. And Samantha
Speaker 1: and I have talked about the single lady. Stress of
Speaker 1: being asked by all your family members why you're single
Speaker 1: around the holidays. But I have plenty of female friends
Speaker 1: who have children, and they have things on their plate
Speaker 1: that I don't when it comes to the holidays. A lot,
Speaker 1: a lot of very stressful things. So many things. Yes,
Speaker 1: taking pictures for holiday cards also expensive, um and sending
Speaker 1: those out, booking the photographer, finding outfits, choosing the best
Speaker 1: photo of handwriting messages and addresses, taking the kids to
Speaker 1: see Santa, baking cookies for a holiday function at school,
Speaker 1: tipping the post worker, Contacting everyone and wishing them happy
Speaker 1: holidays on both sides of the family if a significant
Speaker 1: other is involved. This is one of my biggest pet peeves.
Speaker 1: I do not like that. Again, if you like it,
Speaker 1: good for you. But why am I suddenly having to
Speaker 1: contact your mom and tell her happy holidays? Anyway? So
Speaker 1: that's my problem. Um, Getting gifts for kids, hiding those gifts,
Speaker 1: making Christmas magical. That might involve you know, one year,
Speaker 1: my my parents did a whole They got on the
Speaker 1: roof and there was a whole thing, and I mean
Speaker 1: it really did it made it magical, But oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: it must have been so much work a new one,
Speaker 1: moving the elf on the shelf constantly, constantly, constantly and
Speaker 1: smiling through all of that. Um, that is a lot
Speaker 1: of work and again exhausting. Sure. One of the biggest
Speaker 1: things when um, we're you're looking at arguments around emotional
Speaker 1: labor what we have sort of pop culturally been calling
Speaker 1: emotional labor. Just don't do those things then, um, And
Speaker 1: if you don't, you could not do them, but it
Speaker 1: would come at the cost of disappointment of loved ones,
Speaker 1: maybe voice disappointment, right, as well as probably judgment from
Speaker 1: some judgment. And in the case of a kid, it's
Speaker 1: sad hi sad. It's expected that women will consider the
Speaker 1: feelings of others, so not doing so is seen as
Speaker 1: a failure. And with kids involved, this expectation, reinforced by
Speaker 1: an enormous library of holiday movies and women's magazines, is
Speaker 1: all the higher, right. And obviously Cameron's a little comment
Speaker 1: right that was recently made, and I think it's it's
Speaker 1: fair to say. I know my friend groups, the men
Speaker 1: or the partners and spouses have have absolutely for them
Speaker 1: and they will do a lot of it as well. Now,
Speaker 1: but as we see, still not the cultural norm and
Speaker 1: it should be right absolutely um. In my family. I
Speaker 1: was just thinking of little things my mom did that
Speaker 1: made it magical that I probably didn't appreciate how much
Speaker 1: work and planning went into them. One of my favorites
Speaker 1: was we make gingerbread cookies every year, which requires at
Speaker 1: least one day to let the dough chill in the fridge. Um,
Speaker 1: and a lot of cleaning afterwards, a very messy cookie
Speaker 1: to make. UM also used to make the gingerbread man
Speaker 1: or woman. One of them would run away and would
Speaker 1: leave clues around the house as to its whereabouts. She
Speaker 1: did this for the first time when I was fourteen,
Speaker 1: and I loved it, Like I immediately fell in love
Speaker 1: with the whole thing. Um, that's really elaborate. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was so fun. She knows I'm really competitive. Like I've
Speaker 1: said in previous episode, she still hides eastern exploring. UM.
Speaker 1: But because I loved it so much, it became a
Speaker 1: thing she did every year, and she confided me once
Speaker 1: I became older that she found it really stressful because eventually,
Speaker 1: like you run out of clue ideas, that's like where
Speaker 1: else is it gonna go? Um? So things like that,
Speaker 1: they really do involve a lot more than perhaps we recognize. Um.
Speaker 1: She also used to get out her fanciest dishes, but
Speaker 1: over the years, to make the holidays less stressful, we
Speaker 1: don't do it anymore. My family has changed holiday mills
Speaker 1: a lot, and it's become rather than the full feast,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's become sandwiches because my mom was like, I'm
Speaker 1: not doing it this year. That's fair, mom, that's fair. Uh.
Speaker 1: Sometimes she will do lasagna, so like an Italian throwback.
Speaker 1: Nobody in my family said a time, um, and so
Speaker 1: she would do things like that as well as like Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1: If we had a giant feast during Thanksgiving, Christmas is
Speaker 1: going to be the lesser, that's what would be like.
Speaker 1: It's just kind of because she's like, I do all
Speaker 1: of this, and she put so much on her plate.
Speaker 1: We all end up with thinking, Okay, that's fine, that's fine.
Speaker 1: Just gonnat sandwiches. I love sandwiches. But that's still elaborate.
Speaker 1: Sandwich is my mom has four types of bread that's
Speaker 1: on the table, as well as five meats or options,
Speaker 1: as well as a lot of sides, so it's still elaborate.
Speaker 1: But yeah, she's As we've gotten older, she would slow down.
Speaker 1: But now that the child grandchildren are older, she's kind
Speaker 1: of come back to that mentality a little bit, trying
Speaker 1: to celebrate for the younger kids, but great grandkids, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we were better year. So it's kind of like back
Speaker 1: to Okay, we're celebrating a little less because they don't
Speaker 1: know what exactly what's going on. And all of her
Speaker 1: grandkids are teenagers so they don't care as much and
Speaker 1: we're all adults. So but it's the whole thing it is. Um,
Speaker 1: that's something that i've uh and I don't want to
Speaker 1: make it sound like so I cook the meal, but
Speaker 1: my mom is there the whole time, and she's she helps,
Speaker 1: and UM, I have made it into a thing that
Speaker 1: I enjoy. It's just the stress and the obligation mostly
Speaker 1: of the the planning and making sure everything comes out
Speaker 1: at the right time. UM. And we have slowly and
Speaker 1: it's mostly me to the annoyance of everyone else. But
Speaker 1: since I'm cooking it, I'm like, we're not cooking that
Speaker 1: anymore because I don't really like it. And if you
Speaker 1: want it, you can cook it. Um. So our menu
Speaker 1: has also gotten a little bit more condensed. Um, you've
Speaker 1: taken a lot more responsibility. I guess you're the only
Speaker 1: female in your family, as I'm the youngest and I'm
Speaker 1: not the only female. Yeah, kind of going to my
Speaker 1: sister and my sister in laws and I just kind
Speaker 1: of show up. I'm still treated look at the teenager,
Speaker 1: which is cool. I'm gonna I'm listen to the kids
Speaker 1: table not doing things great. I actually was thinking about
Speaker 1: that the other day, and and I was trying to
Speaker 1: reason out why, in my personal experience, the women do
Speaker 1: make the holidays happen. And one of them is the
Speaker 1: whole reason I started cooking is Um. I had it
Speaker 1: in my head. I was I was in high school,
Speaker 1: and I thought, you know, when I get married, I
Speaker 1: won't know how to cook anything. So I asked my
Speaker 1: mom one year, I want to learn how to cook
Speaker 1: all of the things that you cook so I can
Speaker 1: make it for what I thought. I was going to
Speaker 1: have my own family, and I want to be able
Speaker 1: to do it. And just that tradition of passing on
Speaker 1: recipes and traditions, um. And then then from there it
Speaker 1: just became the next year was a practice here, and
Speaker 1: now every years. That's okay. I was mostly my fault,
Speaker 1: that's okay. UM. Also, my mom has a policy of
Speaker 1: silly hats so we won't fight with each other. That
Speaker 1: is surprisingly effective and I think I should write a
Speaker 1: blog post about it. If you know how to deal
Speaker 1: with Alliday is sillyettes. Um. But that's another example of
Speaker 1: managing the emotions of others. And it does feel like
Speaker 1: the holidays have been sold. Is this wonderful time where
Speaker 1: everyone is happy. If that doesn't happen, then you're doing
Speaker 1: them wrong or something's gone wrong. And the job of
Speaker 1: everyone making everyone happy falls so often to women, um,
Speaker 1: and a lot of us, I'm sure a lot of listeners. Uh.
Speaker 1: We don't get along with our family all the time.
Speaker 1: So it's like this one time of year, we're all performing,
Speaker 1: and if only we can make it this holiday great,
Speaker 1: then we can stay together. If if I can make
Speaker 1: this one good enough, I can keep this family together.
Speaker 1: And that's something that I really internalized. Um My, I've
Speaker 1: recently come to realize that my need to make people
Speaker 1: happy is so strong and so much a part of
Speaker 1: how I've defined myself for so long. I literally sometimes
Speaker 1: feel like I'm a comedian coming on stage after the
Speaker 1: last comedian who totally bombed, and I've got to like
Speaker 1: salvage this situation, and it's it's tiring, um, but it's
Speaker 1: to the point that I made twenty dollars. Somebody gave
Speaker 1: me twenty dollars at my dad's wake for being entertaining,
Speaker 1: entertaining best. Yeah, I'm always seen as the sarcastic, witty one.
Speaker 1: So I'll come in with a little bit of banter
Speaker 1: and then just sit quietly and hopes that no one
Speaker 1: brings up politics. That's my new family tradition. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a good one. So we see this in so many
Speaker 1: holiday movies. The dad is working too hard colecting his kids,
Speaker 1: or his kids forgets to get the gift, burns the food,
Speaker 1: which sounds like the cost. He realizes he has to
Speaker 1: put in some effort. Even if you look at Santa
Speaker 1: Claus as I said, uh, he gets all the credit
Speaker 1: for delivering these toys one day a year, but Mrs
Speaker 1: Claus is doing all the stuff behind the scenes all
Speaker 1: the time, thanklessly and gets no credit. Uh So in
Speaker 1: A Bad Mom's Christmas, in which one of the characters say,
Speaker 1: is your mom, moms don't enjoy, we give joy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I find that there's only a handful of I'm much
Speaker 1: more a Halloween horror movie person. But there are a
Speaker 1: handful of holiday movies I watch every year, and I
Speaker 1: find that the plot line is always man working too hard,
Speaker 1: wife is doing all this stuff in the background, and like,
Speaker 1: one day you're gonna be so upset that you missed
Speaker 1: this time with whoever, poor Johnny, And then they do
Speaker 1: one They get like one gift, ye, and it's like
Speaker 1: it was the perfect gift, but a lot of times
Speaker 1: it was the wife who said you should have gotten
Speaker 1: that months ago, right, it really is. I try to
Speaker 1: watch all of these holiday movies because I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm failing because I don't like Christmas and I've tried
Speaker 1: to make myself like it, and that has a lot
Speaker 1: of emotional trauma baggage in that, and which is the
Speaker 1: reason I don't like it. But I do love watching
Speaker 1: holiday movies trying to get into the spirit, and one
Speaker 1: of and my family watches it to. My dad's favorite
Speaker 1: movie is The Santa Claus as we just recently talked about.
Speaker 1: But it is hilarious because he is an awful father
Speaker 1: and the only redeeming thing is he gets tricked into
Speaker 1: being Santa Claus, who's then again neglects is good because
Speaker 1: he has to be saying class but everything's okay because
Speaker 1: he's Santa Claus. Like it was just amazing. And the
Speaker 1: mom looks like the bad guy just like in everything else.
Speaker 1: Um step stepdad, and this one is just a complete
Speaker 1: idiot portrayed as an idiot. Anyway. Yeah, yeah, I also
Speaker 1: like that movie. But it is funny how it reminds
Speaker 1: me of there's this list called the Iceman List. It's
Speaker 1: about how, if you rewatch a lot of movies from
Speaker 1: the eighties, the bad guy is actually probably right, um right.
Speaker 1: And the mom in that movie, I feel if you
Speaker 1: had an ex who all of a sudden gained all
Speaker 1: this way it looked a certain way, and was saying,
Speaker 1: well this the sun is saying the Santa Claus. I'm
Speaker 1: it have some concerns. Really, I think that's legitmic He's
Speaker 1: not mentally stable. This is how he's trying to win
Speaker 1: my child over. Oh boy, now we're going on a
Speaker 1: different road. Be on the lookout for the Santa Claus.
Speaker 1: The Feminist movie. Another thing I wanted to bring up
Speaker 1: as magazines because I've noticed around this time magazine's filled
Speaker 1: with recipes and life hacks to make it look like
Speaker 1: pulling off the holidays is so easy, so it's supposed
Speaker 1: to look effortless. Um. And I've also found so many
Speaker 1: advice pieces and articles researching for this episode about how
Speaker 1: to fin all the holiday things that you need to
Speaker 1: fit in on top of a full time job with
Speaker 1: children in the mix, and make it look easy. Um.
Speaker 1: And that's part of the equation to here. Not only
Speaker 1: are we putting in all of this hard work, we're
Speaker 1: acting like it's not hard work. We're hiding it away.
Speaker 1: Um And I feel like this is something as women
Speaker 1: were conditioned to not complain, to be graceful under pressure,
Speaker 1: otherwise you'll be the bad type of emotional Right. You
Speaker 1: need to show that you have it all and that
Speaker 1: means you've gotten all of your holiday the core perfect place. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Sony movies also about that about putting up the usually
Speaker 1: I find it movies men do that part there, but
Speaker 1: putting up the lights and competing with your neighbors. Um. So,
Speaker 1: everything we're talking about in this episode is not just
Speaker 1: confined to the home. It can even ripple out to
Speaker 1: work and things like planning an office party or a
Speaker 1: secret Santa exchange or for those in the retail or
Speaker 1: service industry dealing with stressed out shoppers or diners or
Speaker 1: what have you. Women in general place really high expectations
Speaker 1: on themselves. We know this combined with the fact that
Speaker 1: for a lot of us, we grew up watching our
Speaker 1: grandmothers and our mothers doing this holiday labor, and we
Speaker 1: feel the need to fill that role, which is what
Speaker 1: you're trn to be doing any and I refused to do.
Speaker 1: All of this can be exacerbated by things like seasonal
Speaker 1: effective disorder, anxiety or depression, And as I said, a
Speaker 1: lot of my own background is that I have a
Speaker 1: lot of trauma attached to this time of year. So
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is the worst holiday of the year
Speaker 1: and I hate everything, but I'm trying to get it
Speaker 1: together and become an adult like and being like, I
Speaker 1: can I can handle Christmas. I can like it. My mother,
Speaker 1: God bless her, she has tried for years because I've
Speaker 1: I've never really liked it, and she's tried for years,
Speaker 1: from guilting me to trying to make everything perfect for
Speaker 1: me to get me to like this holiday because she
Speaker 1: loves it so much. And of course they're very religious,
Speaker 1: and that has a whole different perspective for them as well.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think for me this type of year,
Speaker 1: I want to ignore it and I couldn't imagine what
Speaker 1: that would be like as a mother. That just that
Speaker 1: terrifies me. I'm like, I'm needn't fail as a mother
Speaker 1: if I ever did become one because I don't enjoy
Speaker 1: these holidays. But I've been told as a single person,
Speaker 1: if you had kids, you would like this holiday more.
Speaker 1: You would understand. I can see. I can see how
Speaker 1: it's both extremely stressful but can be extremely rewarding to
Speaker 1: make a child feel that type of joy. I know
Speaker 1: those when my siblings who are divorced competition and who
Speaker 1: can give the most the happiest. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I read about that that as well. That's one word
Speaker 1: for it. Um. We do have some advice. We try
Speaker 1: to end on an advice usually um bubbs. We have
Speaker 1: one more quick break forward from our sponsor and we're back,
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. And yes, there are some tips out
Speaker 1: there if the holidays are something that's stressful for you.
Speaker 1: Here we go. So my people all stressed stressed out,
Speaker 1: so take time for self care and that might be
Speaker 1: whatever you wanted to be reading, yoga, meditation, making time
Speaker 1: for friends, or for me, sitting in a fiddle position
Speaker 1: in the corner, rating for the season to go away
Speaker 1: in the darkness. Very specific. I'm just saying, hey, you
Speaker 1: know it works for you. Um. Experts also recommend stepping
Speaker 1: back from social media if you find yourself feeling stressed. UM.
Speaker 1: We've talked about before. Playing that comparison game is ever good.
Speaker 1: It can make you feel like everyone is having a
Speaker 1: better holiday than you. Everyone did a quote better job
Speaker 1: than you. Love the comparisons. If you're not the one
Speaker 1: behind the holiday stuff, find wasteed support that person unasked.
Speaker 1: Stock up on wrapping supplies, help with gift buying and wrapping,
Speaker 1: handle the cars through the dishes. If a child is
Speaker 1: in the mix, figure out if they're going to need
Speaker 1: to bring dishes to school or something like that. Coordinate
Speaker 1: with the extended family, and of course, notice and express
Speaker 1: your gratitude. I mean, it is Christmas. Tis the season
Speaker 1: to the season for that stuffy um. And again, I
Speaker 1: do want to say, I actually really, really really love cooking.
Speaker 1: I I love the decorations. I honestly think if I
Speaker 1: didn't do it one year, my brothers would not care.
Speaker 1: They wouldn't care at all except about the food, but
Speaker 1: like the decorations, is not their thing. But I really
Speaker 1: like it. Um, But I don't like that expectation that
Speaker 1: I'm the one that will do it um. Planning this
Speaker 1: big meal with everybody's favorite thing. Although again I have
Speaker 1: started to cut back on that. Um. Yeah, and and
Speaker 1: some things have have prepped days before. And also I
Speaker 1: work and they don't give us a day before Thanksgiving
Speaker 1: off getting all the ingredients, setting the table. It is
Speaker 1: a lot um. But I have turned it into a
Speaker 1: time that I get to spend with my mom and
Speaker 1: we we listen to music and we drink wine and
Speaker 1: we talk um. And I like it. It's one of
Speaker 1: my favorite things. I think that's my favorite thing about
Speaker 1: the holidays, spending that time with my mom. It still
Speaker 1: sucks that if one year I decided I really didn't
Speaker 1: want to do it, it wouldn't happen, or either my
Speaker 1: mom would do it, and then I'd feel guilty about it. Um.
Speaker 1: But my notorious hatred of doing the dishes has led
Speaker 1: to me not doing them anymore. My brother and his
Speaker 1: fiance I do them, so that is, honestly is the
Speaker 1: usually if I hate doing the dishes. Is he doing
Speaker 1: it because his fiance suggested it? I don't know. I
Speaker 1: have no way of knowing without asking, um, but I
Speaker 1: mean he in particular, he knows how much I hate
Speaker 1: doing the dishes because We've got a huge fight about
Speaker 1: it one year. So I'm glad that that's gone away. Um.
Speaker 1: And yeah, until we start recognizing and valuing the workwomen do,
Speaker 1: this is going to be a thing, right And for
Speaker 1: those who have recognized that this is what women do
Speaker 1: and have taken up part of the responsibility, good job. Yeah,
Speaker 1: proud of you. Yeah, I'm proud of you women that
Speaker 1: were doing it all or it And yeah, speak up,
Speaker 1: encourage other there's be an example, right. Yeah. And we
Speaker 1: would love to hear l g pt Q plus stories
Speaker 1: as well, um, because a lot of this was specifically
Speaker 1: heterosexual uh situations. So yeah, I love to know how
Speaker 1: it plays out in different types of relationships. But that
Speaker 1: brings us to the end of this our emotional labor holiday.
Speaker 1: Happy holidays, Happy holidays. Hopefully they're not stressful, they're enjoyable
Speaker 1: and more than a freaking fourth of you can relax.
Speaker 1: That blew my mind. It makes sense, But wow, Um,
Speaker 1: if you want to hide, you can hide with me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you want any company, Samantha, I'm always available if
Speaker 1: you don't want me around. The awesome this word thing
Speaker 1: that I start watching holiday movies, but they're not really
Speaker 1: holiday movies. So you know the fourth about die Hard,
Speaker 1: I hope to talk about that. But then Harry Potter,
Speaker 1: for some reason, it's both Halloween and Christmas. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: do that. And then I do watch horror movies just
Speaker 1: to be angry about not angry, but to put my
Speaker 1: emotions into something. And I'm like, there we go. Now
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do more destruction now with all of these
Speaker 1: horror films. There are a lot of Christmas horror movies.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna put that out there. I might be
Speaker 1: on a panel about that actually coming up. Somebody asked me, like,
Speaker 1: do you have any examples? Twenty examples? Okay, you might
Speaker 1: be good for this, all right. Anyway, I did want
Speaker 1: to read some listener mail to close up, Everett wrote,
Speaker 1: I was really excited to see the episode about farming
Speaker 1: in your podcast feed. I love the show, by the way,
Speaker 1: Oh thank you. I was excited because that's what I do.
Speaker 1: I'm still in school, but for a few weeks in
Speaker 1: the summer and on Saturdays in the academic year. I
Speaker 1: work with the Food Project. We're based out of Massachusetts
Speaker 1: in the North Shore and Greater Boston. We do a
Speaker 1: lot of work related to the stuff you talked about,
Speaker 1: food justice and social justice, plus a youth component. A
Speaker 1: big part to me is how we bring people from
Speaker 1: across these communities and sure we have a diverse group.
Speaker 1: Every summer, we hire thirty six new high school aged
Speaker 1: people in both our regions for six weeks. They work
Speaker 1: together on our farms. They could be from a homogeneous
Speaker 1: sheltered community or a more urban one where gardening isn't common,
Speaker 1: or any other background, and we meet people that we
Speaker 1: wouldn't otherwise since the system doesn't tend to make communication
Speaker 1: between these places very easy. I love the Food Project
Speaker 1: and I love the people. I consider it like family.
Speaker 1: We educate communities and the youth in our programs, and
Speaker 1: there's lots of opportunities for leadership by youth. We build
Speaker 1: raised bed gardens in urban communities that don't have a
Speaker 1: lot of access to fresh food, as well as distributing
Speaker 1: food at hunger relief organizations or through our farmers Market
Speaker 1: We've done work with state programs to make farmers markets
Speaker 1: more affordable too. I could genuinely keep talking for three hours,
Speaker 1: so I'll leave a link to our website if you're interested,
Speaker 1: and that link is the Food Project dot org. That
Speaker 1: sounds like you're doing amazing work. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: food justice is something that's really important to me. This
Speaker 1: sounds really cool and we we appreciate you sharing it.
Speaker 1: Ruth wrote, I just listened to your Female Monster show
Speaker 1: and I thought of a couple of characters who are
Speaker 1: tangentially related to the topic. Neither truly monsters, but they
Speaker 1: fit the parameters of a couple of the topics mentioned.
Speaker 1: The first is a character whose name escapes me, but
Speaker 1: she was played by Isabella Russellini in the movie Death
Speaker 1: That Comes Her. I've been thinking about this movie for
Speaker 1: so because I can't I was like, why haven't we
Speaker 1: mentioned it? And then there then I thought it back.
Speaker 1: I was like, there are a lot of problems. Oh,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it within that movie, and I think
Speaker 1: it's that tire. It is that tired as well. But
Speaker 1: this whole becoming youngest, thaying youngest thing beautiful satan, then
Speaker 1: like this is very problematic, and of course it makes uh,
Speaker 1: the male character the hero of all. The whole thing
Speaker 1: kind of makes the men look at bad guys. But
Speaker 1: it is a really good movie. Yeah, and I would,
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of the monsters we mentioned, um,
Speaker 1: their ultimate goal was youth and beauty, and that's why
Speaker 1: they did the things, the monstrous things they did so
Speaker 1: perfect the example. Yeah, I'll have to check it out.
Speaker 1: You haven't seen it? No, oh my, okay. Anyway, Ruth
Speaker 1: continues about that she is the character who gives two
Speaker 1: women played by Goldie Hawn and Meryl Streep the power
Speaker 1: of immortality and eternal youth at a great price. Of course,
Speaker 1: will not strictly speaking a monster. She plays in the
Speaker 1: fears becoming old and ugly and losing their beauty. She
Speaker 1: gives them an quote Alixer to drink, and things do
Speaker 1: not work out as they expect. I imagine. Um, there
Speaker 1: was an unexpected moral in the story. But the evil beautiful,
Speaker 1: which remains the second is more mundane. But it makes
Speaker 1: me stop and think about the naming of the character.
Speaker 1: And the TV show cheers the most terrifying thing. I'm all,
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. Frasier's wife is named a lil If.
Speaker 1: She is considered cold and calculating. She is a psychiatrist
Speaker 1: and very good at scaring the crep out of all
Speaker 1: of Frasier's friends. She's very pale, it was very dark hair,
Speaker 1: played by the amazing bb new Worth. She's not true villain,
Speaker 1: but she's portrayed in that light because she is different
Speaker 1: from other women, because she wants things her way, and
Speaker 1: because she's still beautiful. Is the naming of the character symbolic.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but it gives me pause to think
Speaker 1: about a couple of characters I had otherwise passed by. Oh. Also,
Speaker 1: there was a book written by an author named George
Speaker 1: McDonald called Lilith, which was a novel about this evil
Speaker 1: woman from the biblical story. She's quite a monster in
Speaker 1: that one. I love Forever and Ever. And I didn't
Speaker 1: realize because I didn't watch the second season and I
Speaker 1: just didn't pay attention. Uh, Sabrina the new one, yea
Speaker 1: Lilith is one of the main characters, and I kind
Speaker 1: of completely forgotten to completely And I was like, oh, hello,
Speaker 1: a friend of mine brought that up to me. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, completely like because I hadn't watched
Speaker 1: it in so long our season, and then I never
Speaker 1: watched a second and I just recently took it back
Speaker 1: up and I was like, oh, oh yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: I've got to say I'm loving all of these UH
Speaker 1: horror and yeah, please keep sending in suggestions. I'm gonna say,
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about this until next Halloween. I love it.
Speaker 1: I would absolutely, do you know I would? And I
Speaker 1: always love a good recommendation for something to check out, right, Um,
Speaker 1: so please keep sending those are away right just so
Speaker 1: you know, because we did have the conversation about coughing,
Speaker 1: We've had a cup full of texts talking to us
Speaker 1: about coughing and other people other podcasts talking about it
Speaker 1: as well. As we got to mention um when they
Speaker 1: were showing us a whole list of like the seasons,
Speaker 1: it shows like fall is cofing season and this is
Speaker 1: what this is. It was really cute. I'll have to
Speaker 1: repost it, but I have not liked it a lot.
Speaker 1: Um while we're here, we want to do some shoutouts.
Speaker 1: While we were thinking about stress and and loving each
Speaker 1: other and so the season best Forever to Pods, which
Speaker 1: is UH podcast by Alyssa who talks about friendships and
Speaker 1: the great stories behind them, and it's so great because
Speaker 1: I think it's such a different take on how to
Speaker 1: maintain or just talk about amazing friendships that have happened,
Speaker 1: or she brings onto and guests talking about different subjects
Speaker 1: and I think it's really cute. And also some kind
Speaker 1: of Brown podcast, which is Natalie who identifies herself as
Speaker 1: indigenous black woman, talks about race and ethnicity and being
Speaker 1: multi racial in the US, including interracial adoption which is
Speaker 1: what rare. And she's also highlighted November I know it's
Speaker 1: over almost um as the Netive Native American Awareness Month,
Speaker 1: and she has brought in a whole series called Red
Speaker 1: November and bringing in a different guests and having awesome, awesome,
Speaker 1: awesome episodes about that. So shout out to y'all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we love it. Thank you, Yes, thank you, and thanks
Speaker 1: to the listeners who wrote in. If you would like
Speaker 1: to write to us, we would love to hear from you.
Speaker 1: You can email us at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at
Speaker 1: iHeart media dot com. You can also find us on
Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast or on Instagram at Stuff
Speaker 1: I've Never Told You. Thanks as always to our super
Speaker 1: producer Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we
Speaker 1: hope a lot more good things are coming your way.
Speaker 1: That's Florence thing. I don't know why I did it,
Speaker 1: but hey go got favorite podsyle Favor, brain stuff, all
Speaker 1: the things I love. A lot more good things are
Speaker 1: coming here with Actually, I hope that the holidays are
Speaker 1: not as stressful and if it is, that you have
Speaker 1: a chance to take in what you need to rest. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's a nice sentiment. Uh. Stuff, I've never told he
Speaker 1: was a protection of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Adio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.