Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha, and welcome to stuff.
Speaker 1: I've never told your production if I heart ideas has
Speaker 1: to work. Today we are talking about one of my
Speaker 1: favorite things. Oh my god, Yes, so exciting, Harry Potter.
Speaker 1: And while yes, I could just talk about Harry Potter,
Speaker 1: we're gonna look at women and feminism of Harry pottermatic yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: and bonus Jane are discussion, yes, which I love. But
Speaker 1: I also love Harry Potter, so I'm not. I don't
Speaker 1: know why I'm acting so cool about it, because I do.
Speaker 1: I really you and I bonded the fact that I
Speaker 1: do really love Harry Potter. I just don't go all
Speaker 1: out and where the things as fiction. I see, I
Speaker 1: see your subtle job, not subtle job. I am may
Speaker 1: a people who love things, and I love Harry Potter. Um.
Speaker 1: It was and slashed still is because my mom. You know,
Speaker 1: when she likes something, it's forever, it's my thingy. Every
Speaker 1: year she gives Harry Potter. So no, every time I
Speaker 1: think about a present, I'm like, I can't do Harry Potter.
Speaker 1: I know her Mom's going to get her like everything,
Speaker 1: so that's fine. She's covered from probably mid middle of
Speaker 1: middle school to high school. Every year she got me
Speaker 1: these really ornate Harry Potter snow globes. They're awesome and
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do with them because my
Speaker 1: apartment is really small, but I love them. If you
Speaker 1: could put it like tape to the wall, that'd be
Speaker 1: best for you. Wouldn't it snowlo taped to the wall?
Speaker 1: Nothing could go wrong. UM. I will say you are
Speaker 1: one of the more fun people to buy for because
Speaker 1: you have a lot of loves that's very tangible, which
Speaker 1: is really nice. So thank you for being that person.
Speaker 1: You're welcome. Yeah, I did it all for you. UM.
Speaker 1: So there are a few significant moments in my life that, um,
Speaker 1: were made by my love of Harry Potter. There are
Speaker 1: certain trips I take I took that were for Harry Potter.
Speaker 1: There were for other things, right, but Harry Potter was
Speaker 1: in there, and I am of the generation that aged
Speaker 1: with it. I graduated high school when the last book
Speaker 1: came out, um, and I graduated college when the last
Speaker 1: movie came out. It was a really big part of
Speaker 1: my life. You know. I actually had a really good
Speaker 1: friend of mine from college who was also loved. She
Speaker 1: was the reason I started watching Harry Potter because she
Speaker 1: loved it so much. I actually went to a midnight
Speaker 1: viewing of Harry Potter, Harry Potter and Goblet of Fire.
Speaker 1: That's what I think got me into starting. Oh, I
Speaker 1: actually like this, let me go back and read what happened.
Speaker 1: And also because I can't wait, I want to know
Speaker 1: what happened. So I went forward and started reading everything.
Speaker 1: And I think by the time I got into it,
Speaker 1: everything was published, so I was already cool into it.
Speaker 1: But this was her escape, Like she had a really
Speaker 1: really rough childhood, very empathetic to the point that it
Speaker 1: hurts her. She's one of those, and having Harry Potter
Speaker 1: as her world, it's a part of who she was,
Speaker 1: really helped her, I think, survive a bit of the
Speaker 1: backlash that was her family, not the Bilash, but the
Speaker 1: problems that were within her family, within her family and
Speaker 1: her own like financial stuff. Harry Potter got her through
Speaker 1: a lot of that. So Yeah, I think I love
Speaker 1: that we were going to talk about this because that's
Speaker 1: exactly what she kind of jumps into, which I never
Speaker 1: thought about. Yeah, and interestingly, kind of off of that,
Speaker 1: if you go back in her traumic says my most
Speaker 1: probably my most dramatic time was fourteen to fifteen, and
Speaker 1: that's when Goblet of Fire came out, and I just
Speaker 1: remember taking such refuge in it, even though it was
Speaker 1: probably the first one that was really difficult, but it
Speaker 1: was it just swept you up and there they're essentially mysteries,
Speaker 1: and so you're trying to figure out who did it,
Speaker 1: what's going on, and it was it was also yeah,
Speaker 1: for me, a way to kind of deal with what
Speaker 1: I was going through. And they continued to be that.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, I've made friends off of them, so it
Speaker 1: was so powerful and I did to give a brief overview.
Speaker 1: We're not the only people who like Harry Potter. Surprise, surprise. Um.
Speaker 1: The first book, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, came
Speaker 1: out in and the series of seven books went on
Speaker 1: to sell millions of copies, five hundred million copies more
Speaker 1: than that, it's the best selling series of books of
Speaker 1: all time. Um. Yeah. And for people who didn't grow
Speaker 1: up during this or maybe somehow missed it, it's hard
Speaker 1: to capture how popular they were. We waited in line
Speaker 1: at bookstores at midnight. They had midnight releases of books
Speaker 1: which was ridiculously rare. Yes, and then we would stay
Speaker 1: up all night and read them. I have pictures of
Speaker 1: everyone because I actually didn't get into them until the
Speaker 1: third one came out. So I have a picture of
Speaker 1: four through seven, me and all my friends. It's five am,
Speaker 1: and we're trying to beat each other, right, and I'd
Speaker 1: love to find that it's still on going. My niece
Speaker 1: who was still in high school, I think she's now
Speaker 1: ninth grade. Oh, I'm sorry, Grace, I'm sorry Annie, Whoa,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Addie. There's too many nieces and nephew I'm
Speaker 1: sorry to God, they're all A's except Um. Anyway, she
Speaker 1: has now gotten into it and it's completely obsessed and
Speaker 1: loves everything about Harry Potter and I love it. It's
Speaker 1: been so long, people, last book was released, all the
Speaker 1: movies are done. People have kind of gone on, but
Speaker 1: it's still a big thing in their world and in
Speaker 1: the world because it's kind of timeless, kind of like
Speaker 1: The Lord of the rings Um and all of the trilogy.
Speaker 1: It kind of continues, goes, continue, continues to be relevant
Speaker 1: because it's their own world, which is fantastic. Yeah, my nephew,
Speaker 1: he's eight or nine, he just got into them, and
Speaker 1: I feel like the coolest person ever because he visited
Speaker 1: my old house where I grew up, and it was
Speaker 1: essentially a shrine Harry Potter, and it's all been confined
Speaker 1: into one section now that doesn't really fit with the
Speaker 1: adult guest room vibe the rest of the room. But
Speaker 1: he goes in there and he's just in love. And
Speaker 1: we've gotten, um, like a trivia contest with each other,
Speaker 1: and just seeing that level of fandom for this book
Speaker 1: series that, yeah, it's been over for a long time.
Speaker 1: The movie series has been over. And then when you
Speaker 1: go we went to the Harry Potter world in Universal
Speaker 1: and the just the wide range of ages and diverse
Speaker 1: groups of people there that shows really popular and a
Speaker 1: lot of people connect with it still. Yes, Um, the
Speaker 1: movies were huge box office successes and the theme park
Speaker 1: is a huge hit, huge money maker. Someone will wait
Speaker 1: in about a four hour line to get to the
Speaker 1: ride four to five hours. Yes. Uh. The last four
Speaker 1: installments of the books set records for fastest selling books,
Speaker 1: and the last one sold eleven million copies in twenty
Speaker 1: four hours, the first twenty four hours. Yes, And my
Speaker 1: favorite thing I did with that one is. I wrote
Speaker 1: out my theory before I read it, as you know
Speaker 1: I like to do, and as I was reading, I
Speaker 1: updated the theory. And you know, towards seven am, the
Speaker 1: theory is perhaps not very good, and it was really funny.
Speaker 1: I thought the spirit of Dumbledore was trapped inside a
Speaker 1: wand and it was gonna come out. I'm so glad
Speaker 1: I wrote it down, though it gives me so much store.
Speaker 1: Did you include then, too, your fan infection, though as
Speaker 1: it wasn't in the actual books you created your own.
Speaker 1: I did not include that in my fan fiction. No,
Speaker 1: you needed we do. You needed to do something right.
Speaker 1: It's unfinished. Oh gosh, but I know it's true. It's true.
Speaker 1: Maybe I could bring Harry back. Also, I forgot about this.
Speaker 1: The New York Times created a second best so not
Speaker 1: a second best seller list, specifically for children's literature, because
Speaker 1: the Harry Potter books were taking up all of them
Speaker 1: and people were matt like authors were mad about it.
Speaker 1: So they did that in the year two thousand, before
Speaker 1: Goblet of Fire came out. Smart Yeah, and the value
Speaker 1: of the franchise is estimated to be around twenty five
Speaker 1: billion dollars, one of the most lucrative franchises of all
Speaker 1: times still going. It is still fantastic beasts stuff in
Speaker 1: the place which I did see. I did see it.
Speaker 1: The popularity of the series has Yeah, it spawned a
Speaker 1: massive fandom, essays upon essays, fan fiction books about all
Speaker 1: kinds of aspects of Harry Potter. I have a book
Speaker 1: that my mom gave me that kind of teaches you
Speaker 1: how to do divination, read poems, have class word starts
Speaker 1: that you gave me. That is all Harry Potter, which
Speaker 1: I love. That's right, I forgot about that. UM tourism
Speaker 1: plays viral YouTube videos parodies real life quidditch, and podcasts
Speaker 1: and podcasts just where we are. UM, so we do
Speaker 1: have a guest with us today. But before we get in,
Speaker 1: disclaimer one. We were on a time crunch, so we
Speaker 1: could have talked forever, right, but we had to kind
Speaker 1: of keep it tight. Uh And then to think, I
Speaker 1: say this in there. I read the books twenty two
Speaker 1: times each when I was young, each each. I have
Speaker 1: a weird thing with numbers, but I have I've only
Speaker 1: read them once since then, and it was a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago. But I still feel pretty confident I
Speaker 1: can win any trivia contest. So far, I have not
Speaker 1: let myself down in that regard, but I haven't. I
Speaker 1: haven't read them since I've become kind of in this
Speaker 1: show and looking at things from a feminist lens all
Speaker 1: of the time. I think there's sort of a natural
Speaker 1: thing that happens when you're a woman and you do that.
Speaker 1: But I wasn't super analytical as what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1: But all right, let's let our guests introduce yourself. My
Speaker 1: name is Snassy Ballspan and I am the hole post
Speaker 1: of Harry Potter and the Sacre Test and the host
Speaker 1: of Hot and Bothered, and on Harry Potter sacre Test,
Speaker 1: we treat Harry Potter like it was a sacred test?
Speaker 1: Can we say that, um sacred is an action and
Speaker 1: not a thing, and it depends on how you interacted
Speaker 1: the thing. And so we um talk sort of talk
Speaker 1: to Harry Potter and mastic questions about our lives and
Speaker 1: see what advance is back and then I'm hot and fathered.
Speaker 1: You do that was romance novels um so reading and
Speaker 1: writing her Ancient Sacred Practices and on Hairy Potting sacre tracts,
Speaker 1: Reading the Sacred and m bothered. We treat working a
Speaker 1: sacred and can you what is the benefit of of
Speaker 1: doing that, of treating it as a sacred text or
Speaker 1: how does that help you shape UM episodes? Yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: I mean there are a couple of benefits. First of all,
Speaker 1: it's just incredibly earnest. I think that you know, we
Speaker 1: all can get bogged out in cynicism and sarcasm, and
Speaker 1: this is a place where we bring like genuine love
Speaker 1: and our unabashed in our nerve them. Um. I'm actually
Speaker 1: not sure what that like, Karen Border, that was being nursery.
Speaker 1: But um, the other world benefit is community, you know.
Speaker 1: The I mean, I feel like we all know that's
Speaker 1: that millennials and younger are having an absolute epidemic of
Speaker 1: learning note with the isolation button by technology leading to
Speaker 1: higher level of profession and anxiety. And I worked with
Speaker 1: college students for the last seven years and UM, it's
Speaker 1: really wild to be the increase of acute mental health
Speaker 1: problems and UM and that it is entirely due to
Speaker 1: isolation and social isolation, to feelings as though you're connecting
Speaker 1: even when you're not. UM, and so treating something is
Speaker 1: sacred one of the key tenants of doing so in community.
Speaker 1: And so we have over fifty five Harry Potter and
Speaker 1: Picker text rattle groups followed the beat all over the world.
Speaker 1: They've learned a lot via started Black Pelo seventeen people.
Speaker 1: We tried to do as many lives events as possible
Speaker 1: and appleizes on FEO. People turned to each other and
Speaker 1: Harry Potter is pretty special as far is building community.
Speaker 1: It is so ubiquitous. You know, you can like say,
Speaker 1: ralot of one one hey, don't otherwise see the same
Speaker 1: language abs and we'll feel like too um and so really,
Speaker 1: you know, we maybe each other and Harry Potter is
Speaker 1: a great way to bring people together who other wives
Speaker 1: not necessarily have a lot in common. Yes, I totally agree.
Speaker 1: And as we were discussing before we got started, I
Speaker 1: am a huge Harry Potter fan. I don't think it's
Speaker 1: a secret to anyone listening that that is true. And
Speaker 1: I was one of the people that when the first
Speaker 1: book came out, I grew up with the characters. I
Speaker 1: graduated high school when the last book came out, and
Speaker 1: graduated college when the last movie came out, And it
Speaker 1: was just a really formative and impactful thing on my
Speaker 1: whole life. UM. So I was wondering if you could
Speaker 1: speak to to your Harry Potter story and how you
Speaker 1: got into this specifically. Yeah, I wasn't really embarrassing Harry
Speaker 1: Potter story. I'm a little too old for it, um,
Speaker 1: and so I didn't. I just didn't read it um
Speaker 1: as a kid. And then in my early twenties I
Speaker 1: started dating with I w I ended up doing with
Speaker 1: for seven years. She's wonderful and good friend and he
Speaker 1: on our first date it came out that I haven't
Speaker 1: read Harry Potter and he had a red Kane air.
Speaker 1: And so what we did for our second date was
Speaker 1: we went to a bookstore and I bought him Jane
Speaker 1: Eyre and he bought me the first two Harry Potter
Speaker 1: Got only Spots and Um, Janior is now one of
Speaker 1: my favorite books, and Harry Potter is now how I
Speaker 1: make a living. So I would say it was a
Speaker 1: stressful spot um. And it really, you know, the first
Speaker 1: the first book I could have read for him, and
Speaker 1: then the second one, I was like, I freaking love it, um,
Speaker 1: And yeah, I didn't really turn back. But what did
Speaker 1: end up happening was I went I went to Divinity
Speaker 1: Epool and tu to Divinity Popool because I should work
Speaker 1: to education for ten years, and it was getting really
Speaker 1: despondent over what. I just realized that we actually know
Speaker 1: how to pick through education system, but it is like
Speaker 1: racism that prevents us to the country and from fixing
Speaker 1: our education system, and that to me seems like a
Speaker 1: soul problem more than a wasn't a like education work
Speaker 1: form policy issue. And so I went to Divinity School
Speaker 1: thinking that I wanted to understand to the heart behind behind,
Speaker 1: like why we hate each other. And then I got
Speaker 1: about halfway to Divinity School and was like, Oh, it's
Speaker 1: really awkward that I'm here because I'm an atheist and
Speaker 1: I don't really know how to get most out of it.
Speaker 1: And every time I tried to pay with the Bible,
Speaker 1: I get really distracted, you know, the granshops, Holocaust divisors,
Speaker 1: and so any prayer and temple having to do with
Speaker 1: like benevolents, I'm like, You're like not great at that um.
Speaker 1: And so I asked one of my favorite professors if
Speaker 1: she would teach me how to pray using Jane Eyre,
Speaker 1: because um, I loved Jane Eyre, and so I thought
Speaker 1: it would be easier and all of that. I realized that,
Speaker 1: you know, Jane Eyre has the effecting problems, but the
Speaker 1: Bible has a met debory. But Chad, it was born
Speaker 1: out of an imperfect world and um, and so it
Speaker 1: is incredibly imperfect. And we developed, you know, we disveloped
Speaker 1: this idea that you know, just talked to that, this
Speaker 1: idea I didn't develop that we on first to. This
Speaker 1: idea is that and something doesn't have to be perfect
Speaker 1: in order for it to be sacred, and nothing right,
Speaker 1: like nothing is perfect. And so I started running a
Speaker 1: Jane Eyre the Distake Protector reading group and it was
Speaker 1: a really beautiful and like party group of four women
Speaker 1: who came out every week in the Boston winter, and
Speaker 1: it was it was the winter was that we got
Speaker 1: a home bench in a month and it was just
Speaker 1: the Lea shows. He was always going out and it
Speaker 1: was still Nate and um. One week, my son Cap
Speaker 1: came just to sort of see what I was up to,
Speaker 1: and at the end he was like, this was really
Speaker 1: cool what you're up to, but it would be even
Speaker 1: cooler if we didn't with a book that people actually
Speaker 1: wanted to read. And I was like, what working people
Speaker 1: actually want to read. And he was like, well, carry
Speaker 1: Potter and I was like, oh yeah, that's a really
Speaker 1: good idea. And we ran the class with nd people
Speaker 1: came and then we started hearing people from all over
Speaker 1: the world saying, I've heard your wanting a Harry Potter
Speaker 1: sper took five night joint I'd skype in from New
Speaker 1: Zealand and UM on our from that. You know, we
Speaker 1: were trying to figure out what to do with that
Speaker 1: because people were sharing really vulnerable things and we didn't
Speaker 1: think screen get it yet, not fun, not recommended to
Speaker 1: make a podcast, And now we have just huge international
Speaker 1: community of people reading Harry Potter. Gred, that was a
Speaker 1: very long answer to your question. I love it answer.
Speaker 1: It was great, UM. And that's something I've on a
Speaker 1: much smaller scale experienced when UM, one of my best
Speaker 1: friends to this day, we met because she had a
Speaker 1: Harry Potter folder and it was seventh grade and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I've got to I've got to talk
Speaker 1: to her. UM. So the header on your site reads
Speaker 1: reading fiction doesn't help us escape the world. It helps
Speaker 1: us live in it. And I think for a lot
Speaker 1: of people books, fictional books, and particularly maybe Harry Potter,
Speaker 1: which is really popular but aim towards children, even though
Speaker 1: adults love it as well. Um, it's easy to dismiss um.
Speaker 1: And I was wondering if you could expound on that header.
Speaker 1: And also, what do you think the value of examining
Speaker 1: these works of fiction through a feminist lens? What do
Speaker 1: you think that value is? Yeah, I mean, I'll just talk,
Speaker 1: you know, talk about my own history with bridging book.
Speaker 1: I was a weird kid. A lot of us were,
Speaker 1: and I was like too loud and um, everyone called
Speaker 1: me like bossy and you know, I was like in
Speaker 1: a sort of girl in the eighties. Um. And then
Speaker 1: I I read the book Caddy Woodlawn and I felt
Speaker 1: so seen by the character of Caddy in a way
Speaker 1: that you know. And I had a best friend and
Speaker 1: she brothers. I was very close too, but really in
Speaker 1: a way that um, I've never felt seen by um,
Speaker 1: by a person, you know, just because you get to
Speaker 1: know all of their inner thoughts when you're reading a book.
Speaker 1: And my mom heard me talk about how much I
Speaker 1: loved it, and so she read it and um, you know,
Speaker 1: it was gared toward third graders. She read it fairly
Speaker 1: quickly and um. And there was a scene between a
Speaker 1: mother and a daughter saying, I know that you think
Speaker 1: I don't love you because I always tell you to
Speaker 1: act more lady like and but um, like we put like,
Speaker 1: I love you so much my mom's box the two
Speaker 1: pages and I put a star on it, and it like,
Speaker 1: it just changed my entire sense of self knowing that
Speaker 1: my mom also the mom charge was made with my mom,
Speaker 1: and Chatty West made with me, and I gave us
Speaker 1: the way to talk about things that are really hard
Speaker 1: to talk about. Right when you're eight or nine years old,
Speaker 1: you don't call your mom inside and say I feel
Speaker 1: if you don't love me because I'm loud, um, And
Speaker 1: your mom doesn'tmploy you aside and say I know I
Speaker 1: get mad at you, but like I love you more
Speaker 1: than anything. Basically, I just found that we need something
Speaker 1: be focusing on outside of ourselves to have difficult conversations. Right,
Speaker 1: you put two people in front of a football game
Speaker 1: and it's something that yell at every minute, they're going
Speaker 1: to be more likely to have that awkward conversation. Um.
Speaker 1: Then if you're just like in a room together having
Speaker 1: to look into each other's eyes. Um, and we say
Speaker 1: this just you know, when I was a chaplain and
Speaker 1: I was meeting a university students, it would come and
Speaker 1: see me and I'd say, how do it. You know
Speaker 1: what brought you to visit today? And they'd be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Um. And so the deal I would
Speaker 1: always make is I'd say, you know, bringing me um,
Speaker 1: then me a favorite poem or a favorite essaye or
Speaker 1: um whatever favorite song, and I would read it and
Speaker 1: then look get back together in a week when we
Speaker 1: will just talk about this thing together. And you know,
Speaker 1: you have two minutes into talking about from David's After
Speaker 1: Law short story and suddenly it's like, well, I'm wearing
Speaker 1: out my dad, add because and there's just something so
Speaker 1: freeing about a tax um. It means that you're not alone,
Speaker 1: right If you get to know the inside of somebody
Speaker 1: else thought process UM, and it resonates with you. It
Speaker 1: just it makes you feel like a part of the
Speaker 1: world again. UM. So I just think that there's something
Speaker 1: really special and inspirational and UM. And I think that
Speaker 1: the more isolated in the process originalized you are, the
Speaker 1: more that that can be true. UM. You know a
Speaker 1: friend of mine who ended up setting a chopping with
Speaker 1: me over her word. He grew up as like a
Speaker 1: queer Kidnell, North Carolina and being able to read, you know,
Speaker 1: Dann Savage really like saved his life on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: So I think that, And you know, reading James Bald
Speaker 1: because a huge James problem fan, and I think reading
Speaker 1: Gilanisburn and knowing that he wasn't the only one like
Speaker 1: that and save ten. So I think that, Yeah, so
Speaker 1: we can be more vulnerable in front of books they
Speaker 1: don't judge us. Yeah, I agree, and you can you
Speaker 1: can connect and kind of it's a way to explore
Speaker 1: things or ideas that might be scary to you. All right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is. It's nice to be involved in something that
Speaker 1: you feel like you're a part of it, and you're
Speaker 1: part of a different world that's kind of outside of yourself,
Speaker 1: which is really nice. And I didn't want to come
Speaker 1: back to Any's question about how do you feel like
Speaker 1: this came in with like the feminist perspective of Harry Potter.
Speaker 1: Why was it so important that it came into this
Speaker 1: role for you as you're journeying and having the conversation
Speaker 1: about a connection in different type of literature or written text.
Speaker 1: Where did you come in like and let's talk about feminism.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the women of Harry Potter. How did
Speaker 1: that come about? So you know, I don't know what
Speaker 1: inspired me to do it exactly, but at the end
Speaker 1: of every episode of Harry Pottery, Protective bless a character
Speaker 1: from the chapters, not Captive's idea, casts a really big
Speaker 1: fan of blessings. He's a big fan of the poet
Speaker 1: John or Johnny Hue, who talks a lot about offering
Speaker 1: less things um and out of talk Claret and then
Speaker 1: I said that I'm a a gonna blessed women, and
Speaker 1: Casper was looking all okay then as saminism, and and
Speaker 1: it just became I said, I was going to do
Speaker 1: it for the first book, but now we're in book
Speaker 1: six and I have only blessed women. I had to
Speaker 1: get lung chapter where I just said I would like
Speaker 1: to bless all these invisible women because the women in it.
Speaker 1: And it just has become such a rigorous practice of um,
Speaker 1: of really trying to lift up the women who I
Speaker 1: might not notice otherwise, I don't think I'd ever really
Speaker 1: paid attention to madam Osmarda or um to Padma or
Speaker 1: but I would get sick of bunding her. Mighty, I
Speaker 1: love her my name, she deserves all the blessings in
Speaker 1: the entire world. But just out of sheer boredom of
Speaker 1: my own boy saying her name, I'd be like, I've
Speaker 1: got to find another woman in this chapter. UM. And
Speaker 1: also just the limitations to the lab has forced me,
Speaker 1: you know, to bless women that I never thought I
Speaker 1: would bless. You know, it's there's the chapter UM of
Speaker 1: Spinners ends and Beltricks and Mercessar are the only two
Speaker 1: women in that chapter. And so it's like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: want to find a way to open my heart and
Speaker 1: be compassionate to one of these two women. And you know,
Speaker 1: I remember the chapter with um when do we get
Speaker 1: introduced to Dabby, but to me as the only woman
Speaker 1: in that chapter? UM. And so it's it has forced
Speaker 1: me to list up women the way that we know
Speaker 1: that women are on the outside of um, of board
Speaker 1: room tables and on the outside of a lot of decisions.
Speaker 1: It's forced me to It's forced me to pay attention
Speaker 1: to the woman on the outside, the men in the middle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I before we did this, I made a list of
Speaker 1: all the female characters and I was just thinking about Okay,
Speaker 1: but well, how could I look at this one like
Speaker 1: as a through feminism lens of feminism? And before I
Speaker 1: came in here, I read so many research papers, mostly
Speaker 1: about her mining and it was very heated. I was
Speaker 1: kind of surprised at the ongoing debate about her character.
Speaker 1: Was one of the things, whether she should have been
Speaker 1: with Harry Ron. No, most of it was actually like
Speaker 1: out of context. She cried this one time she was perfect,
Speaker 1: everyone made. I mean, she's obviously not perfect. She's actually
Speaker 1: quite violent and can be horrible, and what she does
Speaker 1: to marry out an edge Stone is unforgivable. She's wonderful,
Speaker 1: I agree, Okay, yeah, so her money. Yeah, she's the
Speaker 1: source of a lot of debate because she is the
Speaker 1: primary female character in the books. Um. In my personal take,
Speaker 1: when I was reading all of this criticism of her,
Speaker 1: I do feel like they took it out of context
Speaker 1: and didn't look within the arc of her whole character
Speaker 1: in all of the books, because she does start out
Speaker 1: kind of being damseled. She's got a crush on Lockhart.
Speaker 1: But like if I examined one instance from when I
Speaker 1: was that age, I wasn't like a super feminist. She
Speaker 1: was one that came to the rescue almost every time,
Speaker 1: no matter what situation was happening. Yes, so yeah, let's
Speaker 1: talk about her money. You look so excused. I wish
Speaker 1: you could see her face right now. She's just grinning
Speaker 1: from ear to ear. It so excited right now. I mean,
Speaker 1: my job's middle name is how MONI there. I love
Speaker 1: Harry Potter too. I don't know if I'm any level
Speaker 1: of Harry Potter. She definitely wears all the gear. But
Speaker 1: I definitely do know all all the books and did
Speaker 1: love love everything about it. And I did love also,
Speaker 1: Just to put this in context, that it did grow.
Speaker 1: Each book grew with the age of the children and
Speaker 1: the like. The darkness and the depth of it grew
Speaker 1: with all of it, which is very fun. But yeah,
Speaker 1: let's talk about her money. I think for me, one
Speaker 1: of the first things I think of her money is
Speaker 1: she's so smart, such a badass. They would have died
Speaker 1: without her. And the interesting thing there is some people
Speaker 1: criticize that because she was had the higher expectations placed
Speaker 1: on her. If she hadn't done packed the bag and
Speaker 1: definitely Hallows for example, what would they have done? Um,
Speaker 1: So she was just expected to. And she even complains
Speaker 1: about that. And that's the interesting thing about her or
Speaker 1: one of them, because she is in many ways interesting.
Speaker 1: But she calls it out, and she calls out multiple
Speaker 1: kind of gender stereotypes that they're placing on her throughout
Speaker 1: the series, Um, which is it's self away are in
Speaker 1: a way like, yes, this is a problematic thing, but
Speaker 1: I recognize it's a problematic thing. Well, I don't think
Speaker 1: it's the boys aren't supposed to be like super fun
Speaker 1: about right, it's exposing a dynamic. But I think there's
Speaker 1: absolutely the case. And the characters are supposed to be
Speaker 1: some my understanding, even a couple of years older, are
Speaker 1: you and um? Because I think that right, like they
Speaker 1: were born in nineteen and so you know that these
Speaker 1: are like Scarry's realistic conversations with young people we're having,
Speaker 1: right Like, why should I do that? Because in the goal, um,
Speaker 1: and so I think that they are discovering their voices.
Speaker 1: And I also think that, you know, I think that's
Speaker 1: the thinking about her mine as a black character. It's
Speaker 1: also really helpful because it would in some ways triple
Speaker 1: justify all the tacks on her of being novel born
Speaker 1: in a visiting world of being a woman in a
Speaker 1: man's world and then being a black witch in England.
Speaker 1: I think, of course she's going to be in this
Speaker 1: accomplished young woman very I mean, she's growing it, but
Speaker 1: she of course that wasn't harder than anybody else if
Speaker 1: she has all of that to carry on her. Um
Speaker 1: So yeah, and I think the boys are good for her.
Speaker 1: But I also think that we all sometimes have done
Speaker 1: run type of boys in our lives. And I don't
Speaker 1: think she's a problematic character. I think she's a complicated character.
Speaker 1: I agree. Um, I definitely didn't read and I haven't
Speaker 1: read them again since I mean a couple of years,
Speaker 1: but I read them like twenty times when I was
Speaker 1: a kid, and I never was reading it like she
Speaker 1: was just as strong as character, like that's that's what
Speaker 1: I took from it. And I always thought she was
Speaker 1: working hard because she was a muggle morn and she
Speaker 1: did have something she felt like she had something prove.
Speaker 1: But also she just really was into it right exactly,
Speaker 1: which the real personalities apparently. But yeah, she was a
Speaker 1: nerd type of personality who absolutely wanted to make sure
Speaker 1: she was on point at all times. Yeah, which most
Speaker 1: successful women or those who identifies fimls have to be
Speaker 1: to prove that they can do something, that they have
Speaker 1: to be a hundred sure that they can prove themselves
Speaker 1: before they speak out loud, which is absolutely reflected with
Speaker 1: her mind's character. And I was so interesting that the
Speaker 1: fist comparisoned me with him the book Ernie mcnellan, who's
Speaker 1: also like studier and um in bad being right about
Speaker 1: ever last thing, and he does not come off while
Speaker 1: as a character um he becomes prefactive apple path. He
Speaker 1: you know, he's the only one who made sit into
Speaker 1: potions in a couple of tis in the sixth year.
Speaker 1: And so as far as the direct comparison to her money,
Speaker 1: we see a boy who is, as you know, obsessed
Speaker 1: with success, and I think that he's written, um, just
Speaker 1: as like snivelly as her money is. So I don't
Speaker 1: think that there's like a sex gendered access to that.
Speaker 1: I think there's sexism in the book, but I don't
Speaker 1: think that books right. I feel like in the book
Speaker 1: that had the most problematic issues with the girlfriends, the
Speaker 1: Ron's girlfriend and then um Harry's girlfriend what's her name? Yeah,
Speaker 1: in which they are seeing a shrill and overly jealous,
Speaker 1: which like they kind of compete with Hermione almost as
Speaker 1: a pitted woman gets a girl gets a girl, which
Speaker 1: was always bothered me the most was like, why do
Speaker 1: they have to all hate each other? I think that's
Speaker 1: exactly right, especially lading to her, who is written for
Speaker 1: a laugh and um, really Want is terrible to her,
Speaker 1: Want is using her to make her money is Alas
Speaker 1: because he's Stiffy feels not stilly, he's feels ashamed about
Speaker 1: the fact that he hasn't kissed anybody in her money,
Speaker 1: has kissed pictor m and he just uses her and
Speaker 1: then the book mocks her and it's really terrible and
Speaker 1: then she dies. I mean, it's just it's really Lavender
Speaker 1: gets the real short end of this day. Luckily, Sam
Speaker 1: fiction I think has resurrected Lavender to a large extent,
Speaker 1: but the books don't do her any favors. Have you
Speaker 1: any included her in your fan fiction Lavender at any point,
Speaker 1: so I've written, Harry Putter fan fiction. I don't know
Speaker 1: why some manth is bringing this up right now, because
Speaker 1: she brought up and you do a really great job
Speaker 1: with fan faction, I understand. So I actually really don't
Speaker 1: like romance. The lavender never featured, but maybe I should
Speaker 1: give her a redemptive arc um Are her money do
Speaker 1: some kind of adventure together? Maybe my favorite romantic us
Speaker 1: written four Lavenders that Hurt and Parvety run a way together,
Speaker 1: because I realized that not just Ben love, but I
Speaker 1: love a love story. We have some more of our
Speaker 1: discussion around Harry Potter, but first we have one quick
Speaker 1: break forward from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor. UM.
Speaker 1: I did want to go back to her money because
Speaker 1: when it comes to reading about feminism and Harry Potter,
Speaker 1: it always comes up. As few do remember it didn't
Speaker 1: get enough playtime on the movies. It wasn't in the
Speaker 1: movies at all at all, and that it was very
Speaker 1: sad about that. It was a very important part of
Speaker 1: her It really was. Yeah, So for listeners who don't know,
Speaker 1: this is the Society for Promotion of Elvish Welfare. She
Speaker 1: starts fire in the fourth one except for Dobby one right,
Speaker 1: which I do find really interesting because because you can say,
Speaker 1: that's sort of like intersectional feminism at play. Um exactly right, right.
Speaker 1: So I didn't know this, but it was based on
Speaker 1: one of the first organizations for women in Britain calls
Speaker 1: View Society for promoting the employment of women. I do
Speaker 1: not know that this second bring in some new facts.
Speaker 1: I try. I try. Another thing she does is she
Speaker 1: starts Dumbledore's Army because something else that comes up a
Speaker 1: lot is building community two tackle issues, and she is
Speaker 1: the one often frequently spearheading these things and getting things done.
Speaker 1: So I I feel like she doesn't in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways encompass sort of where we are right now
Speaker 1: with feminism, which is interesting. That's interesting. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: think you know, all we can act to people that
Speaker 1: they learned um and she learned from you right, Like
Speaker 1: it goes horribly. I mean, she does such a better
Speaker 1: job as that as the founder of Jumbledore's Army of
Speaker 1: like really scaffolding it um so that everybody feels like
Speaker 1: a part of it, of getting you know, buy in
Speaker 1: early on, of having here you'd be the teacher. Um.
Speaker 1: She was a much better job organizing rather than preaching UM.
Speaker 1: And I feel like as far as like teenage activism goes,
Speaker 1: it's pretty great. She was like at the time she
Speaker 1: was fifteen or sixteen, she's nailed at fifteen. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: gret A Thurnberg. Yes, oh yeah, doesn't been really happy.
Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting that she just clutched her heart. I did.
Speaker 1: I I had girls, they would have been clutched. Sorry.
Speaker 1: Her mane one of the Year and level in the
Speaker 1: Wizarding World. Um So, since in the interest of time,
Speaker 1: I had all these characters written out, but because we're
Speaker 1: kind of on a time crunch, are there are there moments?
Speaker 1: Are characters that, as far as feminism goes, are your
Speaker 1: favorite or are things that you really like to to
Speaker 1: dig into your discuss Yeah, I think that, um, Jenny
Speaker 1: has become a really interesting character to be thinking about
Speaker 1: with the newtube movement happening. I you know, the first
Speaker 1: three times I read the book, but I did not
Speaker 1: read Jinny as like an assault victim, which obviously she
Speaker 1: is the palm Liddle's diary and um and I just
Speaker 1: think the most one of the most beautiful moments in
Speaker 1: the whole series is when he when Jimmy concerned Perry
Speaker 1: and says, I can't believe you can't come talk to me.
Speaker 1: It's not like I have been possessed by Voldemort or anything,
Speaker 1: and here goes, oh my god, I'm sorry I forgot,
Speaker 1: and she says lucky you, and that lucky you just
Speaker 1: holds the whole netwo movement to me of you know,
Speaker 1: lucky society that they've gotten to turn away from this
Speaker 1: lucky lucky Harvey Wine scene with the fact that yesterday
Speaker 1: we found out he's not going to get any deal
Speaker 1: time when he's not about to pay a dime of
Speaker 1: the day and money. Um, and I think Jimmy is
Speaker 1: just holding up a movement with that lucky you and um,
Speaker 1: and Molly's love for James. You know, she's screens Jimmy
Speaker 1: and Buck to know it's all caps at an exclamation
Speaker 1: point and then obviously there's not my daughter, you bitch
Speaker 1: moment um. And so I thinking Molly and Jenny have
Speaker 1: a real bond that is, to a large extent obviously
Speaker 1: the mother and daughter, but I also think to the
Speaker 1: large extent is based in trauma and Jenny wanting to
Speaker 1: be out the world in Molly's really wanting to protect
Speaker 1: her um. And it's just it's a really beautifully rot
Speaker 1: description and um, the situation that I think is all
Speaker 1: be familiar. Yeah, um, that's that's a good moment. And
Speaker 1: I also had forgotten that in the sixth one Ron
Speaker 1: kind of sledge shameser and you're gonna call me what
Speaker 1: what I know? Oh my gosh, it's like say it,
Speaker 1: do it. I dare you to do it, because well,
Speaker 1: you know, she could win, that's right. Um. And I
Speaker 1: did want to touch on because I feel like a
Speaker 1: lot of people forget about Lily Pottery and she, I mean,
Speaker 1: her act of sacrifice and love in the beginning is
Speaker 1: kind of the most powerful thing. That's kind of her
Speaker 1: whole character overall, with Snap and all that. She is
Speaker 1: just a compassionate individual who goes for the underdog. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you only have kind of the sanitized version of
Speaker 1: what Harry knows because he's a narrator. But she did,
Speaker 1: she does this thing, and that throughout the books is
Speaker 1: the strong, powerful, kind of defining thing. Um. And I
Speaker 1: have read a lot of fan fiction where they're like,
Speaker 1: you know, really, she's the one that's powerful, the power,
Speaker 1: you know, not and people don't credit her right where
Speaker 1: they should, right. Yeah, And we do a piece some
Speaker 1: like memories of Snap, Um, she was willing to stand
Speaker 1: up to him. We see that memory of Lily and Petunia,
Speaker 1: Um fighting it, you know, pat for mine in three
Speaker 1: quarters and really and trying to get Petunia on board.
Speaker 1: Um with the fact that she's going to hazards. Right.
Speaker 1: We see a lot of Lily and I think she
Speaker 1: was pretty exceptional. And even if she wasn't, I think
Speaker 1: the fact that she does. You know, I think the
Speaker 1: James because a short end of the stick, because James
Speaker 1: made the same sacrifice for both Harry and Lily's um.
Speaker 1: But I love that this one active sacrifice to give
Speaker 1: him so much meaning because I think it came. We
Speaker 1: think once ACTI sacrifice can changed the courts of someone's life. Um.
Speaker 1: And it's really beautiful. Yeah. Oh, I just remember reading
Speaker 1: the seventh book as sobbing, sobbing. There's so many memories
Speaker 1: in our face. I know we do have a little
Speaker 1: bit more for listeners, but first we have one more
Speaker 1: group break for work from our sponsor. We're back, so
Speaker 1: I didn't want to come back to because you talked
Speaker 1: about Jane Eyre being your favorite book, and I don't
Speaker 1: hear I hear a few people talk about that, but
Speaker 1: I don't hear many people saying that as their favorite.
Speaker 1: I love Jane Eyre because I love le Bronte Sisters.
Speaker 1: Because I also liked Weathering Heights. I know that's way
Speaker 1: out there as well. Um, but what was it about
Speaker 1: Jane Eyre that made you connect so heartily in us,
Speaker 1: like almost a spiritual level with that book and the character?
Speaker 1: You know, it's such a good question. It's just such
Speaker 1: a good It's just such a good book. So that Um,
Speaker 1: obviously first time fourteen and I love a love story.
Speaker 1: So I'm pretty sure that I loved the love story.
Speaker 1: And then it just meets be where you are, you know,
Speaker 1: and I reread it, um as I was thinking about
Speaker 1: going in divinity school. In Spinjon just became like the
Speaker 1: most interesting character to me, how he tried to manipulate
Speaker 1: her with religion, and then I, you know, I'd really
Speaker 1: just fallen in love with so fad Um. She is
Speaker 1: she brings down the whole house with her when she goes,
Speaker 1: and I just love her for it. I love her
Speaker 1: for her cardinality and that she isn't just gonna die.
Speaker 1: She's done in this story, so she does, um, And
Speaker 1: so I I just think that it is it is
Speaker 1: like so complicated and layers and and I guess the
Speaker 1: other thing I love about it is just how weird
Speaker 1: it is it's like some weird mystical fairies and sprites
Speaker 1: and true you know, lightning, hidden trees symbolically, and it's
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just a delightful hot mess. Is honestly
Speaker 1: great because it's like that and even weird are even
Speaker 1: more so. Yeah, I think I just you know, doing
Speaker 1: I read Weather in high school pertimen christeen Misiskina and
Speaker 1: I didn't understand the words. And so now we're doing
Speaker 1: a um Wathering Heights pilgrimage this Jean Severn in the
Speaker 1: middle of setting up. Um, it's really interesting having been
Speaker 1: to how Worth now where the Bronte personages, and that
Speaker 1: town is really an Emily Bronte town. You go there
Speaker 1: and talk about Charlotte and they're like, no, thank you,
Speaker 1: we wan Yeah it was there for being air last
Speaker 1: year and they were like, you're here for the long book. Um,
Speaker 1: we're going back to this year with Wathering Types. I'll say,
Speaker 1: you'll get the correct book and a little more welcoming. Huh.
Speaker 1: Maybe Bill has moved on to Anne, but I think, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm really waited to spend some time with Weather and
Speaker 1: Type because of the next eight months of really diving
Speaker 1: into it again. But you know, Jane is just simpler
Speaker 1: and it's more straightforward. It's an eatier way in and
Speaker 1: wuthering types. Jane. I remember being one of the first
Speaker 1: books where they had the not so attractive girl being
Speaker 1: the lead and the way they describe her. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: she you know, you see yourself. She's a you're invited
Speaker 1: to yourself into Jane. All right, I like this little
Speaker 1: bonus Jane Eyre. What was caught up in those times?
Speaker 1: Jane Austen Janey, I mean Jane Austen and the Bronte
Speaker 1: Sisters two of my favorites. I'm old school that way,
Speaker 1: really really old school. Apparently you should come on one
Speaker 1: of our pilgrimages some time. Oh, we'll be there, Plan
Speaker 1: number fifty something trips, Like anytime people invite us, I
Speaker 1: hope they're serious. Oh no, I'm totally serious. You should
Speaker 1: talk about it. Yes, please, Well have a Bronte and
Speaker 1: oh my gosh. Alright, alright, yeah, well we'll be in
Speaker 1: we have to go that way, yes, yes, let's go.
Speaker 1: Um and would you like to tell the listeners where
Speaker 1: they can find you? Yep, Um, you can find us
Speaker 1: wherever you're listening to this podcast right now. You can
Speaker 1: find Harry Potter and the staked test or if you
Speaker 1: are more and more a normal person, you can find
Speaker 1: hot and buttered. And that brings us to the end
Speaker 1: of this interview. Yes, it was so fun. We could
Speaker 1: have kept going forever. And as you heard, we were
Speaker 1: talking about doing that tour with I'm Janair and for
Speaker 1: all the bronze stuff and um Jane Austin stuff. But
Speaker 1: you know, we should have talked about going on the
Speaker 1: tour for Harry Potter stuff. Can we do that? Is
Speaker 1: that thing? Can we do that? Oh? Yeah, okay, Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh. You can go visit the studio in London
Speaker 1: and making of Harry Potter and it's so I've been
Speaker 1: to the theme parks. That thing in London is my
Speaker 1: favorite thing. I went to the train station train stuff.
Speaker 1: I went there when I would visit my friend in London.
Speaker 1: She took me there. She's like, here it is and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, people waiting inline, I'm not doing that.
Speaker 1: Well talk about the power of Harry Potter. That's not
Speaker 1: even they built that because you can't actually get to
Speaker 1: the ruin. But so many tours were jumping over the
Speaker 1: trains and well, not jumping over trains, but they were
Speaker 1: they were taking away to it, right, so they built
Speaker 1: a fake one makes it's just come over here, stay
Speaker 1: away from they don't go near the train tracks. Okay.
Speaker 1: UM really quickly didn't want to touch on some characters
Speaker 1: because I know we didn't. There's so many that we
Speaker 1: could have talked about. One a fan favorite is Luna
Speaker 1: Um And one of my favorite things about Luna is
Speaker 1: the relationship between her and Harry because it's platonic and
Speaker 1: I love when she says he invites her to the
Speaker 1: slug club, the slug ball, right, and she says, oh, people,
Speaker 1: well think for our friends, and Harry says so earnestly,
Speaker 1: you are my friend, right, And it's just nice. I
Speaker 1: feel like we don't get that kind of relationship. Even
Speaker 1: though we didn't have a lot of screen time. We
Speaker 1: don't see that a lot. He's never judging her for
Speaker 1: and she's just going to be herself and that's fine. Well.
Speaker 1: I love the Luna and what's his name? The other one,
Speaker 1: the one that could have been Harry Neville Neville. I
Speaker 1: love that Luna and Neville are such good friends in
Speaker 1: the movie. They do a little more in the movie
Speaker 1: than they in the book, will you try to kind
Speaker 1: of protect each other? Almost it was super sweet, super cute. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the oddball is oddballs together. Yes, speaking of oddball Tonks,
Speaker 1: she's a pretty big I love that she's somehow both
Speaker 1: really clumsy but really good at her job because I
Speaker 1: feel I can connect. And I think if they don't
Speaker 1: play enough about her being a part of that the
Speaker 1: Beltricks and um, all of their family, I think that's
Speaker 1: important that they kind of kind of escape over. Yeah
Speaker 1: in the movie for sure, for sure, that kind of
Speaker 1: barely mentioned it. And then even in the book that
Speaker 1: kind of bypass it to being her in love with
Speaker 1: Lupin Yes, yeah, um. And then there's Professor McGonagall of course,
Speaker 1: super tough. I love I love her stuff in the
Speaker 1: last book when she's defending Harry, I love it like
Speaker 1: it doesn't and it doesn't show it in the movie.
Speaker 1: But I love that scene where she's going up against
Speaker 1: the two twins. Yeah, that is a great scene. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to touch on floor day Lacre too, because
Speaker 1: she's really interesting from where she starts, as you happy,
Speaker 1: the and that is all about looks, although people forget
Speaker 1: they're also extremely dangerous. Well, the whole Uh, school, it's
Speaker 1: just all female. Yeah, and I feel like that's not
Speaker 1: mentioned enough. And the strength between them themselves. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like downplayed, I feel like, because it's based on
Speaker 1: looks and how deceptive they can be in or you know, tricksie.
Speaker 1: What does Mr Weasley say? He says, he says something
Speaker 1: like sea boys, this is why you don't go for
Speaker 1: looks alone. Uh. And she is the unfortunately, the worst competitor,
Speaker 1: I would say in the Gobblet of Fire. But he's
Speaker 1: the most help as seems. Yes, um, but she did
Speaker 1: go on to become a pretty central and powerful character.
Speaker 1: And let's not to say she wasn't powerful then, it's
Speaker 1: just the way she was portrayed, and especially in comparison
Speaker 1: with all the other champions, she did come out looking
Speaker 1: like the weakest one. And then villains we have to
Speaker 1: talk about umbradge. Oh, talk about problematic white woman. She
Speaker 1: that's the angriest I ever got. I had to close
Speaker 1: order the Phoenix the fifth one after she banned him
Speaker 1: from quidditch. I don't even care about quidditch. I was
Speaker 1: just so mad at the injustice of it. Oh, she's infuriating,
Speaker 1: But I do think having a female villallin like that.
Speaker 1: It just added so much. I mean clearly, I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people would say she was the least like,
Speaker 1: the most hated character, and that's that's a testament to
Speaker 1: oh gosh, the writing, but also the actress. She was
Speaker 1: exactly that character. She was everything and embodied that character
Speaker 1: to the full. Yeah, she's famous English actress, Amelda Staunton Stanton.
Speaker 1: And just having that wide cast of here all these heroes,
Speaker 1: strong female heroes, but also here are some villains, Belatrick's
Speaker 1: being one. She is extremely powerful. I think people forget
Speaker 1: at one point she's dueling Luna, Jenny and her mindy.
Speaker 1: I think she's doing three people at once. She was powerful,
Speaker 1: and she's often put in contrast of Lily represents love
Speaker 1: and pure love and she represents just ambition and hate,
Speaker 1: like they're the opposite side. She does, she does um
Speaker 1: and she was. She was really frightening character I found. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then there's Petunia and Narcissa, who I do find
Speaker 1: interesting because even if you probably classify them as villains,
Speaker 1: that the mother part of their characters and them going
Speaker 1: to protect out of their way to protect their children,
Speaker 1: which is very much of a theme through all of it.
Speaker 1: Whether it's Molly Wheeley or Lily, all of them is
Speaker 1: very protective, very on point. Whether it's bad or good,
Speaker 1: they're doing something for in the name of their children. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's one thing I know. Some of the criticism
Speaker 1: I read of characters like that and Molly Weasley is
Speaker 1: you're putting them in these gender stereotypes. The mom and
Speaker 1: then in response j K Rolling, especially to to Molly Weasley,
Speaker 1: she says, Um, the moment when Molly kills Belichick. She
Speaker 1: said she wanted Molly to have her moment to show
Speaker 1: that because a woman had dedicated herself to her family
Speaker 1: does not mean that she doesn't have a lot of
Speaker 1: other talents. Yes, and um, one thing I wanted to
Speaker 1: close out with because I do generally try to separate
Speaker 1: actors from their characters. Um. But Emma Watson is such
Speaker 1: an interesting case because I remember being ten years old
Speaker 1: feeling extremely jealous that she had been cast. And she
Speaker 1: said in an interview, I I literal I remember this probect.
Speaker 1: I didn't have to look it up, she said. When
Speaker 1: asked about her money, she said, I hate her. I
Speaker 1: hate her. I hate her because she was into fashion
Speaker 1: and she thought her mind, he just wasn't wasn't cool.
Speaker 1: But then she went out as she grew up. As
Speaker 1: Emma Watson grew up, she grew to love her money
Speaker 1: and loved all those things about her that she was
Speaker 1: a warrior and she was smart. And I just I
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of us go through that where
Speaker 1: we hate the adolescence. We were awkward children and we
Speaker 1: hate everything about ourselves. Yes, um, and then now she's
Speaker 1: a feminist activist and she's the voice of U n's
Speaker 1: he for she. She was appointed as the UN Women
Speaker 1: Goodwill Ambassador in July. She did she got good recommendations
Speaker 1: on their SOI but a Google search of is Emma
Speaker 1: Watson too pretty to play her money? Turns up almost
Speaker 1: half a million results. You would never ever see that
Speaker 1: with any of the male actors. Is Danny Radcliff, who
Speaker 1: hands to play Harry Potter. That would not happen. No,
Speaker 1: But I think they did question his height. They did
Speaker 1: as a separate episode. They also questioned his eyebrows. I
Speaker 1: said they were too feminine. Look, we're we're unpacking a
Speaker 1: thing at right at the very end that we should
Speaker 1: come back to. Yeah, so clearly we we blew through those.
Speaker 1: I could talk about this forever, but we'll have to
Speaker 1: end it here today. Definitely, go check out Vanessa's podcasts.
Speaker 1: Go go find her on the social media's Women Who Knows,
Speaker 1: Harry Potter and Like a Text and Hutton Bothered, which
Speaker 1: I just love that. Yes, And if you would like
Speaker 1: to reach us you can. Our email is Stuff Media
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can find
Speaker 1: us on Instagram as stuff and I'll Never Told You,
Speaker 1: or on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always
Speaker 1: to our super producer Andrew Howard Angel, thanks to our
Speaker 1: guest Vanessa and Hannah for helping to set it up,
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening up. Rem Never Told
Speaker 1: You's a protection of I Heart Radio's house networks for
Speaker 1: more podcast from my Heart Radio of his Diheartradio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,