Speaker 1: Jamie. We've got an episode coming up for everyone about
Speaker 1: Little Women. Very excited. But first we wanted to tell
Speaker 1: you about a tour we're taking in January. I believe it.
Speaker 1: We were doing three cities to start January twenty second,
Speaker 1: we'll be in San Francisco for s F Sketch Fest
Speaker 1: at the Gateway Theater and we'renna be covering The Social
Speaker 1: Network because we're covering kind of moody, broody, dark movies
Speaker 1: on this tour. And wow, how appropriate that we're doing
Speaker 1: the Social Network in San Francisco, the tech capital on purpose? Wait?
Speaker 1: How smart of Then on January we will be in
Speaker 1: New York City I ever heard of it for the
Speaker 1: Brooklyn Podcast Festival at the Bellhouse. We're returning to the
Speaker 1: Bellhouse and we'll be covering Black Swan. Wait, Caitlin, that
Speaker 1: movie takes place in New York. The amount of foresight
Speaker 1: have given this. And then on January will be in
Speaker 1: Philadelphia at Good Good Comedy Theater, returning one of our
Speaker 1: favorite places, and we'll be covering The Sixth Sense. Hold on,
Speaker 1: where is that movie? It's incredible? Uh. You can get
Speaker 1: more details and ticket links on our website at bechtelcast
Speaker 1: dot com and click on the live tab. Uh and
Speaker 1: I will also be doing a small tour of those
Speaker 1: same cities solo in February, so go to those shows. Two.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, where do people go to find information
Speaker 1: about that? They'll also be listed on bechtelcast dot com
Speaker 1: or you can go to Jamie loftus is Innocent dot com. Incredible. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: see you there everybody you don Oh and uh, one
Speaker 1: last thing, I have a side pod ever heard of
Speaker 1: it coming out on January onet. Uh. It's called Mayer
Speaker 1: and Mensa. So it's based on I mean, kayl and
Speaker 1: you were present for all all of the related trauma.
Speaker 1: But it's about the eighteen months that I spent in
Speaker 1: MENSA where I started by taking the test as a
Speaker 1: joke and then ended up basically getting attempted red pills
Speaker 1: by uh sort of sinister dark mens A Facebook group
Speaker 1: and uh ended up going to Phoenix and getting yelled
Speaker 1: at for three consecutive days. But it's about my experience,
Speaker 1: and it's also about the history of i Q organizations
Speaker 1: and kind of that sinister backstory. So if that's something
Speaker 1: that you've seen me tweeting incessantly about for the last
Speaker 1: year and a half and you're interested. It's called my
Speaker 1: Ear in Mensa. You can find it on all of
Speaker 1: your podcasting platforms, and I hope you'll listen. It was
Speaker 1: a nightmare and uh if if you listen, it wouldn't
Speaker 1: have been a waste of time. All right, That's all
Speaker 1: I had to say. On the dodcast, the questions asked
Speaker 1: if movies have women in them, are all their discussions
Speaker 1: just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The
Speaker 1: patriarchy zef invest start changing it with the cast. Hello
Speaker 1: and welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante.
Speaker 1: I'm Jamie Loftus. WHOA Sorry, Okay, I don't know something's
Speaker 1: going on with me. My body has been really reacting
Speaker 1: crazy ways to almost everything this past week. I'm so sorry. No,
Speaker 1: it's it's exciting. It's exciting. I'm on the edge of
Speaker 1: my seat. Who knows what will happen next? And that
Speaker 1: conversation past the Bechtel test. Yeah, the fickleness of the
Speaker 1: human body. It's a genderless discussion. Yeah, because what we
Speaker 1: do here on this podcast is talk about the representation.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, now I'm it's contagious. So also, I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry it's contagious. You'll lose your ability to speak. Three,
Speaker 1: the representation of women in film, not just women, also
Speaker 1: women that are little big like little women women maybe
Speaker 1: not as big as you would expect. They'll be big someday, sure,
Speaker 1: I like, except for the one that dies. Of course,
Speaker 1: spoiler alert, one never gets big. One's stays little in
Speaker 1: our memories forever true. Anyway, So these women and sometimes
Speaker 1: they're little, or what we talked about on the podcast,
Speaker 1: using the Bechdel test or sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace
Speaker 1: test as a jumping off point to initiate a larger conversation,
Speaker 1: And that of course requires that to little little women
Speaker 1: who have names, who have little names, little things, most
Speaker 1: of them are nicknames. They must go my nicknames, and
Speaker 1: they must speak to each other about something other than
Speaker 1: a man named Lori. I know, and it is hard
Speaker 1: not to. I understand why it's difficult to not talk
Speaker 1: about Lorie. Sometimes I understand. Lori is my mom's name.
Speaker 1: I know. I was thinking, just what's your mom's take
Speaker 1: on Lorie? How is how do you she feel? He
Speaker 1: is a reflection on the Loria community. You know, i'd
Speaker 1: have to ask her. I don't I don't know. I
Speaker 1: should have should have done my research. I'll text her
Speaker 1: right now. Yes, I would love to hear. So. Yes,
Speaker 1: we are talking about Little Women. We had to we
Speaker 1: must the new ones about to drop. So we're talking
Speaker 1: about the one from ninety four, directed by Jillian Armstrong.
Speaker 1: That's the you know, the famous Winona writer Christian Bale.
Speaker 1: Susan so Randon ever heard of her? Yes, Claire Dane, Yes,
Speaker 1: Maeric Stoltz is in the movie. Kirsten Dunce is. Another
Speaker 1: woman is in the movie, and we don't know who
Speaker 1: she is, but we like her work in this movie.
Speaker 1: Meg Meg, Yeah, I never saw her again, but she
Speaker 1: is alive. Treney Alvarado, Yes she was. She was so talent.
Speaker 1: Everyone in this movie so talented. Everyone in the new
Speaker 1: movie is so talented, except for maybe Emma Watson, who's
Speaker 1: who's American accent? Did you hear her American accent? It's
Speaker 1: not great, It's like, and there's no excuse because is
Speaker 1: doing is fine and Florence Pew's doing just fine. And
Speaker 1: then Emma Watson's turned to speak and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: maybe let's scale back the part, but she's she's nice.
Speaker 1: These are my little takes anyways, little takes corner. We've
Speaker 1: got a guest. She's the best, the best, first, the best.
Speaker 1: She used a three time returning guest, Elite, the top
Speaker 1: tier absolutely with Naomi and Caitlyn Gil good company and
Speaker 1: you're always are one of our like holiday movie season guests.
Speaker 1: He's true, isn't it? Because it's kind of love actually
Speaker 1: and die harder, Oh my gosh. Now, and then a
Speaker 1: woman does I mean obviously has a very Christmas vibe.
Speaker 1: There's there's a couple of Christmases. It's true. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: it's our dear friend, comedian Debra d g you Vanny, Hello,
Speaker 1: welcome back, thank you for being I'm not supposed to
Speaker 1: say guy anymore, am I? Oh? I know. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to train myself out of that one is going to
Speaker 1: be very difficult. There's been a couple of words in
Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen where it's just like, oh, we're slowly
Speaker 1: work It's interesting watching a word slowly just work its
Speaker 1: way out of vernaculate and I'm with it. I'm I
Speaker 1: totally accept that. But it's that's that one. It's a yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta catch yourself a couple of tags. Every once
Speaker 1: in a while, I've been saying y'all more than I
Speaker 1: thought I ever would. I've been saying humans like humans.
Speaker 1: You know. It's it's that's a nice round way of
Speaker 1: covering everybody. I like. I like gang gang gang teams,
Speaker 1: a good coach, energytage well or whatever an ever mannard
Speaker 1: energy to this stage in Western Pennsylvania where I'm from,
Speaker 1: you say you's to be why O you and Z?
Speaker 1: But then there's another version of it, Yn's which is
Speaker 1: why I and Z? But what what's that for? Like
Speaker 1: you ones? Oh? I like that. I'm trying to think
Speaker 1: Canadian one. It reminds me of how I try to
Speaker 1: say Christian. We are think Canadian were very big on dude.
Speaker 1: Dude is a very and that is a genderless dude.
Speaker 1: Is that? I think people think of it as a
Speaker 1: masculine term, But it's in candidate's super not and it's
Speaker 1: not d U d E. In Canada, it's d O
Speaker 1: O D like we really hold the dude. I say
Speaker 1: dude a lot. I get not proud of myself, but anyway,
Speaker 1: it's good to be here. Yes, we thank you for
Speaker 1: the genderless dude. Yeah, little dude, little dude, A little dude,
Speaker 1: little Girlwig. Where were you on that one? So we
Speaker 1: had thoughts, you had thoughts about this before we even started. Yes,
Speaker 1: I don't agree with any of you. Okay, So what
Speaker 1: is your history with Little Women? Little Women? I definitely
Speaker 1: read it. I remember, you know, reading it, and you
Speaker 1: know it's so funny. It's you know when there's just
Speaker 1: a little snippet in time that just sticks with you.
Speaker 1: Minus Friends, the show Friends, that's you know, it was
Speaker 1: the nineties, that was I was a young woman that
Speaker 1: was just really stuck with me. And the entire time,
Speaker 1: I kept thinking of the episode where Joey and Ray Rachel, Yes,
Speaker 1: I remember that died. I mean, it's that's all I
Speaker 1: get think either. The whole time I was watching it,
Speaker 1: I remember Joey being confused to about Joe and Marie
Speaker 1: thinking Joe is a man and Lori is a woman. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that's what I can't think. I will say. I mean,
Speaker 1: I love I loved the book. I did. I mean,
Speaker 1: I haven't read it a long time. I was a
Speaker 1: young girl when I read it. I loved it. I
Speaker 1: was a little woman when I read it. But I
Speaker 1: didn't love this version of the movie. And here's why
Speaker 1: it wouldn't known a writer and I have always loved
Speaker 1: Wenona writer and everything. This I couldn't. It was too precocious,
Speaker 1: it was too like, I'm she ran everywhere and we
Speaker 1: get it. Joe was a natural girl and blah blah.
Speaker 1: I couldn't take it. I had to watch it in
Speaker 1: like three parts because I couldn't say I was like
Speaker 1: and Kristen Dunns too, as well as a child petulance.
Speaker 1: But the movie itself is lovely. I just I didn't
Speaker 1: love this version. I do love Susan Sarandon, but I
Speaker 1: didn't love this version. But the new one. I am
Speaker 1: jazzed for the new jazz for the new one. And then,
Speaker 1: of course, honey, versions of this movie have they done several?
Speaker 1: A lot? There was, Oh, I have a list. There
Speaker 1: was the first one. I believe it's in nineteen thirty
Speaker 1: three or four. Of course, of course, why would I
Speaker 1: think anything? Um okay, so nineteen thirty three. That one
Speaker 1: is Katherine Hepburn playing Joe. There's one in nine that
Speaker 1: was a big one. June Allison, Margaret o Brian, Elizabeth Taylor,
Speaker 1: Jane isn't it. I should watch one of the old
Speaker 1: ones maybe, seriously, that sounds fun. I've seen I think
Speaker 1: I've seen the nine nine with Elizabeth, but and then
Speaker 1: the one. Then there was a mini series that came
Speaker 1: out last year, right, Yeah, was not received maybe very well,
Speaker 1: it was it was a modern what about Kate? Wasn't
Speaker 1: Kate winslettin something? No, I'm making it. She's been in
Speaker 1: every other period piece, but this probably she's been. It's
Speaker 1: been a so that's just the times it's been movies.
Speaker 1: It's been a TV series in ninety nineteen, seventy nine,
Speaker 1: seventy eight, in two thousand and seventeen, and an anime
Speaker 1: in seven. So there's infinity adaptations of this book. But
Speaker 1: that is a lot for one story. I mean it
Speaker 1: really is. Yeah, I mean it's an American class, it's
Speaker 1: an American classic. It's an American town, which is an Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no denying. It makes me cry every time.
Speaker 1: I know. I'm very excited for the new one. I
Speaker 1: I enjoyed this one. I read Little Women as a
Speaker 1: little woman as well. Um they had like they had
Speaker 1: like a promotion. Our local newspaper was like selling copies
Speaker 1: for like two dollars, and they were these beautiful, like
Speaker 1: hardcover copies of all these classic books. So I got
Speaker 1: Little Women. I remember liking it, but not liking in
Speaker 1: the second half, which I still feel basically the same
Speaker 1: way about. I was like just going back through like
Speaker 1: the adaptation changes. They trimmed a lot of the fat
Speaker 1: for this movie, because there's a lot of the way
Speaker 1: that Joe's character lands in the book. I remember just
Speaker 1: being like, really, and they avoid a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: in this movie that I appreciated. I don't think I
Speaker 1: had seen this adaptation with Winona Writer. I think once
Speaker 1: and I thought it was boring and long, and this
Speaker 1: time I thought it was just a little boring in long.
Speaker 1: But I liked it, and I cry, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I just I just remember as a little
Speaker 1: girl reading and being so mad that Joe Lloyd didn't
Speaker 1: end up together like that. I was so angry, like
Speaker 1: I have a lot of theories and then also some
Speaker 1: context about all this, the Louisa May Louisa my Alcott
Speaker 1: has I'm so excited for Context Corner today because it
Speaker 1: is fascinating. Louisa May Alcott really couldn't give a shit
Speaker 1: about her fans, which is kind of funny. My history
Speaker 1: is that I had only seen this movie for the
Speaker 1: first time like two years ago, another one that I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, we'll cover it eventually, so I'll just
Speaker 1: like watch it and like have it in my brain space.
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, like, Wow, this is like far
Speaker 1: more of a feminist text than I was expecting for
Speaker 1: something that was adapted from something that was written in
Speaker 1: the nineteenth century. Yeah, so that was I was like,
Speaker 1: I wonder, like, how much of that of the feminism
Speaker 1: we see in this adaptation is actually in the book.
Speaker 1: So I started reading the book about two weeks ago.
Speaker 1: I got three quarters of the way through, so sorry, fans,
Speaker 1: I haven't finished it. I don't know what happens at
Speaker 1: the end, but I did read a large chunk of it,
Speaker 1: and there's like a kind of feminist speeches that will happen,
Speaker 1: or like monologues in the movie that are not in
Speaker 1: the book. But I would argue that there's a version
Speaker 1: of feminism in in the book for its time. There
Speaker 1: definitely is there. I mean, yeah, I guess I'll just
Speaker 1: save it for Louise as context Carus. She's so interesting.
Speaker 1: But there's a whole chapter in that book on like
Speaker 1: sleep training a baby. Did you get to that chapter? Oh?
Speaker 1: I remember that very clearly and going to my mom
Speaker 1: and being like what is this And then she was
Speaker 1: just like, maybe skip it. I don't. I think it's
Speaker 1: like Mega's like sleep training her babies and there's so
Speaker 1: much attention to detail. I got how she did it.
Speaker 1: I got to the chapter where she was like, I
Speaker 1: can't wait to be a really really good housewife and
Speaker 1: then like she has difficulty executing that, and like she
Speaker 1: has a hard time being so her husband's a piece
Speaker 1: of garb. He's awful. Made him much nicer in this
Speaker 1: A little in this yeah much? But I mean I
Speaker 1: haven't read the book. I would say almost forty years
Speaker 1: I haven't. No, probably like thirty five years. I haven't
Speaker 1: read it. So Beth still dies kicks that every time
Speaker 1: everything changed that if this time Beth. But I really
Speaker 1: I like this movie a lot. Yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I really like it. Christian Bale is fabulous in this movie.
Speaker 1: He is. He's quite good. I'm excited to see Timothy
Speaker 1: Shell and I play the same part that Christian band.
Speaker 1: I could already like, I could already see him doing
Speaker 1: it like even like in like like just from seeing
Speaker 1: previews like already facial expressions, and I was like, oh, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is that's seeing the trailer. I can't wait to
Speaker 1: see Joe dump him. He's not going to take it. Well,
Speaker 1: he never takes he doesn't take it well, well you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. He does that really good. And
Speaker 1: this and this one I think Christian Bale picks up
Speaker 1: a backpack really like and he's like, I'm going to Europe.
Speaker 1: You're like, good for you, asshole. Okay, So should I
Speaker 1: dive into the recap? Yeah? Alright? So it is Civil
Speaker 1: War era New England. I think they're in conquered Massachusetts, Massachusetts. Baby.
Speaker 1: We meet at pond. We meet the March family. They've
Speaker 1: fallen on hard times, but they also live in a
Speaker 1: very large house and have a servant, so sure, um.
Speaker 1: Joe March is one on a writer's character. She's our narrator.
Speaker 1: She is a writer. She has an older sister Meg,
Speaker 1: a younger sister Beth that's Claire Danes, and then little
Speaker 1: Amy is Kirsten Dunce, and their mother Marmie. Marmie So
Speaker 1: that's the name for mom. Is that what it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they call her Marmy Sick. But her actual name is
Speaker 1: Abigail in the in this movie, not in the book.
Speaker 1: They don't give her a name in the book. Um,
Speaker 1: one of the one of the cool I really like
Speaker 1: the writer of this movie, who's also producing the new movie, yes,
Speaker 1: which is and she's Zoe Kasane's mom. Isn't that wild?
Speaker 1: She also wrote Practical Magic, Yes, and she wrote Matilda. Okay,
Speaker 1: So that's the March family. It's Christmas morning. Their neighbors,
Speaker 1: the Hummel family, are poor German immigrants, and they don't
Speaker 1: have really anything to eat. So the girls or the
Speaker 1: little women bring their Christmas feasts to the Hummels and
Speaker 1: their other neighbors. An owner gentleman named Mr Lawrence and
Speaker 1: his grandson, Christian Bale. Notice this. Uh, they noticed this
Speaker 1: generous deed that the March family does. And let's see
Speaker 1: Joe and meg Um. I mean this, there's kind of
Speaker 1: like there's not a streamlined plot. It's just a bunch
Speaker 1: of like little vignettes. We see them. They're all they've
Speaker 1: like contribute to this little newspaper that they make. They
Speaker 1: dress up as men and like give themselves fake names.
Speaker 1: Then Joe and Meg get invited to a ball or something,
Speaker 1: a debutante party. I don't even know. Yeah, there's the
Speaker 1: scene where Joe accidentally burns Meg's hair off. Uh. And
Speaker 1: then at the ball, Joe runs into Christian Bale, who
Speaker 1: goes by Lorie even though his name is Theodore Lawrence
Speaker 1: but also sometimes she calls him Teddy. Yeah so, but
Speaker 1: they become friends, and soon he's friends with the whole
Speaker 1: March family. And we also meet Laurie's tutor, John Brooke,
Speaker 1: who who will later marry User Alert. He's played by
Speaker 1: Eric Stoltz. And then we meet Aunt March. She is
Speaker 1: there rich great aunt who Joe like works for and
Speaker 1: reads to. Uh. There's a line incident with Amy at school,
Speaker 1: Lori's hanging out with all of them, and then Meg
Speaker 1: and Joe go to the theater with him and John Brooke,
Speaker 1: and that upsets Amy because she wants to go to
Speaker 1: the theater too, so out of spite, she burns Joe's manuscript. Wow,
Speaker 1: I would cry, that doesn't equal at all, Like, that's
Speaker 1: not even remotely on a level. But Amy, it's a
Speaker 1: child's child, a little little little um and she does apologize, right,
Speaker 1: but oh, boy, You're like, I mean I felt that,
Speaker 1: just like yeah, and like that kind of sibling rage.
Speaker 1: There's no rage like oh my god. So Joe's like,
Speaker 1: I'm never talking to you again. But then Amy falls
Speaker 1: through some thin ice and Joe's like, well, I guess
Speaker 1: I can't hate my sister who almost died. So they
Speaker 1: make up, and then the family gets word that their father,
Speaker 1: who is away fighting in the Civil War, has been
Speaker 1: wounded and is in a hospital in Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: So John Brooke, who is in love with Meg, offers
Speaker 1: to escort Marmie there, and Joe chops off her hair
Speaker 1: and sells it to help Marmy pay her way to Washington,
Speaker 1: making her video Baldest Woman in Trying exactly uh. And
Speaker 1: then she also sells one of her stories not long
Speaker 1: after that, so now she's a real author and the
Speaker 1: Little Women, well, Marmy is away, the Little Women are
Speaker 1: trying to get by, and then Beth goes to help
Speaker 1: the Humble family, but their baby is sick with scarlet
Speaker 1: fever and gets Beth sick as well, and it seems
Speaker 1: like she might die, but then she pulls through just
Speaker 1: in time for Christmas, just never Christmas, which is when
Speaker 1: their father returns home in this big Christmas miracle surprise.
Speaker 1: Everyone's happy. Then we cut to four years later, which
Speaker 1: is at this point in the book where the original
Speaker 1: book stops and the sequel to the book starts. So
Speaker 1: the second half of a Little Woman is actually called
Speaker 1: Good Wives. Um, and that's why the second half of
Speaker 1: the movie is maybe not so good. And if I'm
Speaker 1: not mistaken, is there another sequel called like Joe's Boys
Speaker 1: tacked on that can't I don't know. If I don't
Speaker 1: think that's included in the Little Women, I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: it's Little Women is like all the fun parts that
Speaker 1: people remember Good Wives, which is all the sucky parts,
Speaker 1: and Beth dies, which is a pucky part but a
Speaker 1: memorable second part. And Luisa Alcott like completely denounced the
Speaker 1: second like Good Wives. She was like it wasn't good.
Speaker 1: I needed yes, I read money. We also hated it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So speaking of the Good Good Wives, the Good Wives,
Speaker 1: Meg marries John Brooke, Laurie proposes to Joe and she's like,
Speaker 1: no way, Jose, we would be terrible spouses for each other.
Speaker 1: And he's all but her and he runs off backpack
Speaker 1: his jan sport backpack and he's like, I'm going to
Speaker 1: be a musician. You're like, no, you're not right, and
Speaker 1: then he isn't. And then Joe decides to go to
Speaker 1: New York to pursue her writing more seriously, and there
Speaker 1: she meets Friedrich Bear played by Gabriel Burne. Yeah, he's yeah,
Speaker 1: he's very he's very handsome. He I was like, I
Speaker 1: was also like forty years older than her, a lot
Speaker 1: older than her, and the king of nagging. He's just
Speaker 1: he's like, you're writing. And then he's like, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: And then four days later he's like, but seriously, your
Speaker 1: writing is bad. And then she was like, could you not? Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I was getting some strong Alfred Molina vibes, so
Speaker 1: I could have easily been easily been off. Definitely in
Speaker 1: the same little path he had to have. They might
Speaker 1: be friends in life, right and like they had. He
Speaker 1: had to have been on from Ireland, I believe, and
Speaker 1: neighbors neighbors. It's like being like, you know, Arizona neighbors
Speaker 1: basically is uh so, Joe has been struggling to get
Speaker 1: anything published, but he's like he encourages her to write
Speaker 1: from the heart because she's writing stories about like vampires
Speaker 1: and gore and stuff, and he's like, but none of
Speaker 1: you is in these stories. So then she's like, okay, fine,
Speaker 1: I'll write from what I know. But before that they
Speaker 1: kissed a little bit. And then also in Europe, Lori
Speaker 1: is drunk now and he is trying to get with Amy,
Speaker 1: who is a little bit older of a little woman. She's, yeah,
Speaker 1: she's seventeen in this in the back half, which is
Speaker 1: what in the Civil War, that's basically thirty five. True,
Speaker 1: you don't live as long. And then Beth's health takes
Speaker 1: a turn for the worst, so Joe goes back, but
Speaker 1: she's been she's been frail the whole time. Third Days,
Speaker 1: I think speaks maybe fourteen words and doesn't get a lot.
Speaker 1: She really doesn't historic. Beth never gets much in the
Speaker 1: book either. I think she's like intentionally underwritten to be
Speaker 1: more of a godlike ascension because you're just you don't
Speaker 1: learn about anything about she likes you's. She even in
Speaker 1: her death scene with Joe, kind of also cops to
Speaker 1: being a poorly written character, which she's like, you all
Speaker 1: had goals, and I just sort of like it's true.
Speaker 1: It's a very sad speech, not in like emotionally, just
Speaker 1: like like you never even sort of grew up or tried.
Speaker 1: You're like, okay, bawling. Yeahs devastating. It's like I don't
Speaker 1: really care about this character, and yet here I am
Speaker 1: ugly crying by myself in my room. So sad. So
Speaker 1: she dies and Joe asks Lorie, who is still in Europe,
Speaker 1: to return home to be with the March family during
Speaker 1: this difficult time. So Laurie shows up and he's like, hey, Joe,
Speaker 1: let me introduce you to my his wife, your sister Amy,
Speaker 1: And she's like, oh cool. Joe handles this gracefully. She
Speaker 1: I would be sequely like seriously, I mean seriously recu
Speaker 1: from from and then you married my best friend, and
Speaker 1: I just like the love of her life. Like really,
Speaker 1: here's my theory, I think. And I'm not the first
Speaker 1: one to say this, but I'm pretty sure Joe is
Speaker 1: a lesbian for sure. Yeah. So I like her getting
Speaker 1: with Friedrich, which does happen at the end, and even
Speaker 1: more so in the book, like the movie cuts off
Speaker 1: where it's just like she's like, come be a teacher
Speaker 1: at my school and then they kiss. But at the
Speaker 1: end of the book, or maybe it's in the second sequel.
Speaker 1: They like have children together. They have children and and
Speaker 1: in the book she starts a school for boys boys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're like, what that doesn't even make sense with the character. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just she's not like for anyone who wants to
Speaker 1: learn if you're a boy, a white boy. But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: Joe's kind of a queer icon. Yeah in many ways. Yes, um,
Speaker 1: but I know so. I think Fredrick in this movie
Speaker 1: is her beard. Maybe not sure. Anyway, they get together,
Speaker 1: and this is also when Joe has she's written about
Speaker 1: her life and her sisters and submitted it and Freedrick's
Speaker 1: like he helps her get it published and then he
Speaker 1: like drops off a galley of the book or something
Speaker 1: I don't know, and she's like, oh hey, let's be
Speaker 1: it again. He's like, didn't you marry someone though, And
Speaker 1: she's like, no, I'm not married. He's like, okay, let's kiss.
Speaker 1: And then that is the end of the movie. He's
Speaker 1: like walking away with a little bindle, Like this is
Speaker 1: rather dramatic. It's nothing literally, like that's all he has.
Speaker 1: My hands are empty except for my little bendle and
Speaker 1: and the love in my heart Caitlin. I mean, weddings
Speaker 1: aren't for Joe, but guess who they are for Meg,
Speaker 1: Meg and eventually Amy as well. Which brings me to
Speaker 1: what I wanted to bring up naturally, which is talking
Speaker 1: about Zola. Meg and Amy wish they could use this.
Speaker 1: Zola makes wedding planning easier and less stressful, with wedding websites, registry, invites,
Speaker 1: and a guestless manager all in one place. They could
Speaker 1: have invited all of conquered, that's true, and they couldn't
Speaker 1: because they didn't have access to Zola. It has free
Speaker 1: wedding website designs, hundreds of gorgeous designs for every style.
Speaker 1: You can create your site in minutes with a custom
Speaker 1: you are l and password protection meg uh. You can
Speaker 1: also get an online rs v P page, or guests
Speaker 1: can shop your registry right on your site. And speaking
Speaker 1: of that registry that you know the little women again,
Speaker 1: they there's so much talk about how they've fallen on
Speaker 1: hard times and they wish they could have art supplies
Speaker 1: and yarn whatever. Beth is dying of registry. The little
Speaker 1: women wanted a bunch of stuff and if they had
Speaker 1: just had Zola, they could have added it. To their registry,
Speaker 1: and Lori's uncle could have just hooked it up, or grandfather,
Speaker 1: grandfather's grandfather could have just you know, been like, here
Speaker 1: you go. He gives them a piano for crying out loud.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Zola has the highest rated registry of all
Speaker 1: time and strikes saying no. You can register for gifts, experiences,
Speaker 1: and honeymoon funds. Oh, that's great, That's what I would want.
Speaker 1: You can add gifts from other stores. You can sink
Speaker 1: with existing registries. I was on zola dot com checking
Speaker 1: out what's available, and I was just shopping away because
Speaker 1: you know, women be shopping. I was truly like, Wow,
Speaker 1: I wish I was getting married right now, so I
Speaker 1: could like set up a registrate and get all the
Speaker 1: awesome stuff. I would put a piano and a cure
Speaker 1: for my sister's illness on my word, registrate. That's wonderful.
Speaker 1: Plus with Zola you get beautiful, affordable invites and paper.
Speaker 1: You can shop the whole paper suite at Zola from
Speaker 1: Save the Dates, two invites, and thank You's all designed
Speaker 1: to match your wedding site. You can customize it with
Speaker 1: your own photos, which did exist during the Civil War,
Speaker 1: so they could have used that used wording and more.
Speaker 1: They'll help you collect addresses and track online rs vps
Speaker 1: with their free guest list manager, and they'll address your
Speaker 1: envelopes for free. That's amazing. Zola has helped Caitlin one
Speaker 1: million couples get married, and they'll help you too. That's
Speaker 1: a weirdly direction to you, but they will help the
Speaker 1: grand you as well. Beautiful. So sign up at zola
Speaker 1: dot com slash TBC to day to get your free
Speaker 1: personalized paper sample. Then use code save fifty and get
Speaker 1: fifty percent off. You're saved the dates. That's Zola dot
Speaker 1: com slash TBC and use promo code save fifty. All right,
Speaker 1: let's let's get back to the Little Women, shall we.
Speaker 1: I just had to get that out of my system
Speaker 1: and now we can talk about Joe. Okay, let's do it. Okay,
Speaker 1: So what a treat? Where to start? Where to start? Indeed,
Speaker 1: should we start with a little context on this story?
Speaker 1: I think that's a good idea, And Caitlin, I know
Speaker 1: you have some context as well. So I didn't know
Speaker 1: a lot about the history of the writing of this book,
Speaker 1: or about Louise am Alcott as a person, but it's
Speaker 1: all very interesting. There's a lot going on. So this
Speaker 1: is auto fiction basically, like Louise my Alcoot grew up
Speaker 1: in Conquered with three sisters. I mean, the father stuff
Speaker 1: is kind of written out of little women. The father
Speaker 1: stuff in Louise ma Alcott's life is bananas. It's a lot, um.
Speaker 1: But she has three sisters. One of them died at
Speaker 1: twenty two, not from uh what scarlett fever. No from
Speaker 1: What is speculated now is that she had severe anxiety
Speaker 1: and starved herself to death. There was like it was
Speaker 1: very dark and very sad. Uh, which has stuff to
Speaker 1: do with the father. So unfortunate. Okay, So the father
Speaker 1: who Louisa May Alcott stands for her entire life, she
Speaker 1: never really denounces him. She admires him a lot. They
Speaker 1: were very close. And Louisa May Alcott died two days
Speaker 1: after her dad passed and they had like the same birthday.
Speaker 1: It was a whole lot of stuff. But her her
Speaker 1: dad was Transcendentalist, which was a movement around this time,
Speaker 1: hyper religious, and it was like a lot of very
Speaker 1: very famous writers were associated with it. Henry David Thurreau
Speaker 1: was involved. Um, who is the other Ralph Waldo Emerson
Speaker 1: is involved. All these famous New England writers of the
Speaker 1: time time were her mentors as she was growing up,
Speaker 1: But it was her dad was a zealot for sure.
Speaker 1: He did some good things, he like invented new teaching techniques,
Speaker 1: but he also forced veganism on his family, which is
Speaker 1: you know, in theory great Civil War times really not
Speaker 1: called your family is malnourished and they were like starving. Um.
Speaker 1: So he you know, I was on the right track,
Speaker 1: but maybe went a little too hard and I'll remember
Speaker 1: his family. Uh. He also didn't like and this is
Speaker 1: kind of alluded to in a scene that's not in
Speaker 1: the book. He wouldn't allow them to wear wool or silk,
Speaker 1: basically any basicthing but linen. I think, yeah, so, which
Speaker 1: is also hard because they didn't have a lot of
Speaker 1: money and so they were only allowed to wear one fabric,
Speaker 1: so they also didn't really have anything to wear in
Speaker 1: addition to really having nothing to eat. So he was
Speaker 1: he was an intense Scott. He would leave for years
Speaker 1: at a time and leave her mother to raise the
Speaker 1: for little women on her own, which I think is
Speaker 1: what is supposed to be maybe happening in in little women.
Speaker 1: But it's like the dead would just bail for long
Speaker 1: amounts of time to try to start up a religious
Speaker 1: camp and would blow all the family's money putting it
Speaker 1: into these religious sites, and then he wouldn't have any
Speaker 1: money to feed or clothe his family. And even if
Speaker 1: he didn't, he wouldn't So it was just it was
Speaker 1: not a good situation. They were also abolitionists. They were
Speaker 1: that's rights was like, which is great. Uh, they were
Speaker 1: they were abolitionists. And their house was a stop on
Speaker 1: the underground railroad, so they like Harbord fleeing slaves to
Speaker 1: try to get them to they were I mean, they
Speaker 1: were vegan in they were that it killed them. They
Speaker 1: were so ok it nearly killed it was so yeah. No,
Speaker 1: they weren't fucking around. They were uh and and um
Speaker 1: the and and like her, I mean, her father was
Speaker 1: always very supportive of her writing career. Her mother was
Speaker 1: one of the first paid social workers in the state
Speaker 1: of Massachusetts. Ever, so a good but bizarre family dynamic.
Speaker 1: So basically Louise may Alcott is Joe Um in the books,
Speaker 1: which tracks on everything down to um. Well, I mean
Speaker 1: it's got you know, queer theory is in its infancy.
Speaker 1: It might it might still not, it might even be born,
Speaker 1: not even be born um at the time of this.
Speaker 1: But Louise May Alcott, unlike Joe, who she's sort of
Speaker 1: due to I think publishing notes, was told like, you
Speaker 1: gotta get Joe married. You gotta Also the fans, like
Speaker 1: wrote in after the first book, that she had to
Speaker 1: marry Laurie. They were like, make Joe get married, and
Speaker 1: and Louise Malcott was like, well, I like, I guess
Speaker 1: that she had to for whatever reason, she had to
Speaker 1: get Joe married, but she refused to give people the
Speaker 1: satisfaction of making it Laurie, which rules exactly um. But
Speaker 1: but she never got married. There's some good quotes from her.
Speaker 1: She she identified as a life lung spinster um. And
Speaker 1: she said this was in an interview with Louise Chandler
Speaker 1: Moulton we all know and loves. She said quote, I
Speaker 1: am more than half persuaded that I'm a man's soul
Speaker 1: put by some freak of nature into a woman's body,
Speaker 1: because I have fallen in love with so many pretty
Speaker 1: girls and never wants the least bit with any man.
Speaker 1: So it's it's mired in you know, the vernacular of
Speaker 1: the time, but she was like fairly open about it.
Speaker 1: She had she had an affair with a young Polish
Speaker 1: man who I guess she based Laurie on at one point.
Speaker 1: But there's not a ton known about her personal life
Speaker 1: except that she never got married, never had a desire to,
Speaker 1: and she really did not like writing the women. It
Speaker 1: was the thing she was the least proud of. Um,
Speaker 1: sort of like Joe, which I thought was interesting, where
Speaker 1: Joe was writing all these kind of like waggy and
Speaker 1: fantasy stories, which Louisa may Alcott also did under fake names,
Speaker 1: and Joe, is you know enough? Men are like just
Speaker 1: write down your like, just right now, what happened? Your
Speaker 1: sister died right right about that, And I think a
Speaker 1: similar suggestion was made to Louisa may Alcott and then
Speaker 1: I ended up being this gigantic thing. Um. But but
Speaker 1: she was never really passionate about writing about herself. She
Speaker 1: just wanted to write about the stuff that wanted to
Speaker 1: write about. Yeah, I think that that's the primer on
Speaker 1: covers what I had to all Right, Yeah, she's she's
Speaker 1: a very interesting person. I wish that we knew more
Speaker 1: about her personal life. She was she was a little
Speaker 1: bit cranky. Uh, she didn't care for her fans, which
Speaker 1: is which is a mood. You know, that's a that's
Speaker 1: definitely a decision. But you know, very talented, ardent, feminist, abolitionist,
Speaker 1: on on the right side of history with pretty much
Speaker 1: every social issue you could be on the right side
Speaker 1: at that time. So we love her, we love Oh wait,
Speaker 1: oh wait. The last thing I wanted to say was,
Speaker 1: for some reason, they did document her last words, and
Speaker 1: very funny. She died of some complications student meningitis, and
Speaker 1: her last words were is it not meningitis? And those
Speaker 1: are the last and then she just mid diagnosis or something.
Speaker 1: I don't know I was. I just thought that that
Speaker 1: was very funny. I was like, wow, move over, Steve Jobs.
Speaker 1: You know, is it not meningitis? Has logged in? Incredible,
Speaker 1: very cool. So, because Joe is so closely modeled after
Speaker 1: the author, let's maybe start with Joe talking about Joe.
Speaker 1: I love I love Joe too, but um, one of
Speaker 1: the things that I noticed on my first watch of
Speaker 1: this movie and then obviously again watching it through the
Speaker 1: lens for the podcast, is I was like, oh, there
Speaker 1: there are all these feminist monologues that again don't really
Speaker 1: take place in the book, but there's like the foundations
Speaker 1: of them are there. And then the screenwriter, Robbins Swigered
Speaker 1: just kind of modernized what Louisa may Alcott was doing.
Speaker 1: And so we get different bits of dialogue or monologues
Speaker 1: where I think the first one is, um, Marmie is
Speaker 1: talking about corsets and just sort of like the energy
Speaker 1: levels of young women, and she says, uh, it is
Speaker 1: my opinion that young girls are no different than boys
Speaker 1: in their need for exertion. Feminine weakness and fainting spells
Speaker 1: are the direct result of our confining young girls to
Speaker 1: the house bent over their need to work in restrictive corsets.
Speaker 1: And then mag noted kill joys, Like, Mom, was that necessary?
Speaker 1: Like shut up? And then and then John Brooke's right
Speaker 1: there and he's talking about Lori, and he's one hopes
Speaker 1: that your girls would be a gentle thing influence, but
Speaker 1: instead they're like getting him all riled off. And then
Speaker 1: and She's like okay, John, Like she basically was like,
Speaker 1: shut up, you dumb John. Sucks man, John, Like I
Speaker 1: couldn't sucks too. I don't think Lorie is great. I
Speaker 1: think Lorie at least has redeeming qualities. Want name one
Speaker 1: thing that's good about John? Literally not nothing, and he's
Speaker 1: way worse than the books too. In the books, he
Speaker 1: like yells at Meg right after she has twins because
Speaker 1: he's like, you're not paying attention to me, and then
Speaker 1: Meg apologizes for two whole chapters. So you know, the
Speaker 1: men don't fare well in this though, like that, there's
Speaker 1: no we don't have any great examples of men in
Speaker 1: this in the in the movie for sure, at least,
Speaker 1: I mean maybe the closest thing is their father, who
Speaker 1: barely gets screen time words, which is very old to
Speaker 1: be a soldier. I'm am I wrong? Is that by
Speaker 1: our standards? Yes? But I think in like Civil War
Speaker 1: era they would just take anybody could have only been thirty.
Speaker 1: We have no idea, like literally like that's just a
Speaker 1: very grizzled yeah, and he said it sounds like he's
Speaker 1: like modeled after Louis and Alcott's father, minus all the
Speaker 1: cult stuff. But truly, though none of the guys are great.
Speaker 1: Great isn't great, and even Friedrich is not great. They're
Speaker 1: not great? Right, Yeah? Okay, So let me talk about
Speaker 1: Lori for a moment because I like the fans always
Speaker 1: like I just didn't Christian, but it was so cute.
Speaker 1: That's what I can't. That's I mean, this is what's
Speaker 1: the only right. But he is a character. Here's a
Speaker 1: few examples of why he pretty much sucks. Um. He
Speaker 1: shows up at that debutante party that Meg is at,
Speaker 1: and she's like kind of surprised to see him. She's
Speaker 1: been like dolled up by her rich friends, and she
Speaker 1: covers her chest a little bit, and then he says like,
Speaker 1: oh no, don't cover up. There might be one or
Speaker 1: two gentlemen here who haven't seen your charm. Yes, And
Speaker 1: then she was like having this is the only time
Speaker 1: we make modest yeah, never has fun. I'm like, this
Speaker 1: is the first time she's ever had fun in your room? Right?
Speaker 1: And she expresses like she's like I like the way
Speaker 1: I look like, I like what's and he and then
Speaker 1: he makes fun of horror like truly yeah, yeah, he's
Speaker 1: like a yeah, he's an asshole. And then what about
Speaker 1: about telling a child he's going to kiss her? I
Speaker 1: mean not now, I mean it was there was she
Speaker 1: was a child, she was like seven or something. That
Speaker 1: reminded me of I wrote down Taylor Lautner, Oh, and
Speaker 1: Twilight when he's like, I'm going to make out with
Speaker 1: this baby one day and you're like, oh, dear God,
Speaker 1: why why are we bringing put to our brain? Yeah? Ever?
Speaker 1: Why you? And it's supposed to be romantic, but if
Speaker 1: he imprinted on Nasty King of not good kissing situations
Speaker 1: in the movie, he loves yes, yes, yes, uh. He
Speaker 1: loves to surprise kiss because he first does it. He
Speaker 1: only he does it with Joe when he proposes to
Speaker 1: her after she's been like I'm not really into this
Speaker 1: and and he's like he kisses her and then she
Speaker 1: pulls away, and then later he tries to kiss Amy.
Speaker 1: He like pulls the little veil off of her face.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm reminded of a promise I made to
Speaker 1: kiss you when you were a child. And then Taylor,
Speaker 1: she like backs away and starts she like changes the
Speaker 1: subject so he doesn't get to kiss her, but he
Speaker 1: like very hard tries to surprise kiss her, and then
Speaker 1: right after that he insults her painting. He's like, your
Speaker 1: paintings are mediocre copies of another man's genius. And then
Speaker 1: she's like, what are you in a band? And he's
Speaker 1: not really. And then and then he turns himself around
Speaker 1: and he's like, all right, fine, I'll go to London
Speaker 1: and make myself worthy of you. And then the next
Speaker 1: thing we know they're married. And it's just like, I
Speaker 1: hate how that plays out. I guess it's expanded on
Speaker 1: more in the book, but it's all but I don't remember. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I also, I didn't get to that part. Didn't get there.
Speaker 1: It's not even worth rehashing, I don't. I mean, it
Speaker 1: was a choice to have him marry Amy. I'm like,
Speaker 1: couldn't they couldn't. He just remained friends with the family. Also,
Speaker 1: Louise May Alcott's youngest sister was a painter, and she
Speaker 1: was like a sort of famous painter of her time.
Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, sort of famous female painter. Good for her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: at a time where you know, women weren't really artists
Speaker 1: or authors. Women didn't so you know the fact that
Speaker 1: you get these characters who have like these creative interests
Speaker 1: in our and pursue them, and that comes with some
Speaker 1: level of privilege of being able to pursue these interests.
Speaker 1: But even so, like it was like okay, like writing
Speaker 1: and it was kind of reserved for men at the time,
Speaker 1: and in Joe's case, I mean, Joe doesn't really get
Speaker 1: help from anybody, and like starting her writer writing career,
Speaker 1: I think he gets like the Parisian bump or wherever
Speaker 1: the fun you wanted to study painting, But like Joe
Speaker 1: does it all by herself, Like she doesn't get help
Speaker 1: from anybody at until Frederick comes along and he's like
Speaker 1: with my editor friend right, and he's like, you have
Speaker 1: to change everything you write about um, But I don't count.
Speaker 1: The second half of the book is canon, Okay, So
Speaker 1: she doesn't get any help right up until that point. Yes,
Speaker 1: she's she's doing it on her own. I don't count.
Speaker 1: Frederick is not a part of my head canon. Well,
Speaker 1: I am going to talk about him a little bit.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. Well we should talk about well we should,
Speaker 1: we should talk about him. Yeah, complicated. The main thing
Speaker 1: for me is that, like she has not expressed really
Speaker 1: any romantic interest in any man up to this point,
Speaker 1: and you know, anyone, and then suddenly this guy who's
Speaker 1: like twenty or thirty years older than her comes along.
Speaker 1: I think the actor is at least twenty years older
Speaker 1: than when a writer. It's a little alarming to look
Speaker 1: at uh, not to shame anyone who you know, and
Speaker 1: this was this was standard of the time. Much older
Speaker 1: men were marrying much younger Christian Bill. But I was
Speaker 1: just like, Okay, She's like this whole time has been
Speaker 1: like no, I'm not going to go and be someone's wife,
Speaker 1: and like, no, I'm I care about my writing. That's
Speaker 1: the only pursuit I care about. And then Friedrich comes
Speaker 1: along and because he likes books, she's like, well, I
Speaker 1: guess we can kiss. And I mean it was like
Speaker 1: the cultural the cultural influence of the time in terms
Speaker 1: of like Louisa may Alcott had no choice, her hand
Speaker 1: was forced in terms of like they all had to
Speaker 1: get married at the end because that wasn't even reflective
Speaker 1: of her life when everything else is pretty much beat
Speaker 1: for beat the same. But it's like she had to
Speaker 1: like marry off her own avatar to some random which
Speaker 1: doesn't seem very and she like she very vocally did
Speaker 1: not want to marry Joe, have Joe be married, but
Speaker 1: the fans and the publishers alike were like, no, she's
Speaker 1: got to be married, big moment for marriage. Um, the
Speaker 1: only I mean, it's kind of like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I've I've read a lot of like criticism in either
Speaker 1: direction on Joe's I mean, there's a ton written about
Speaker 1: Joe and people are like, oh, I wonder if, like
Speaker 1: greta girl is going to change that or leave that
Speaker 1: out or like something Alige differently. But it's hard because
Speaker 1: it's like if you it's like what you said, Kitl
Speaker 1: and I was like, you're never really led to believe
Speaker 1: that this is something that Joe wants out of life,
Speaker 1: So it rings a little hollow, and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden she does want it. But then also it's like
Speaker 1: she's nineteen, and I think that it is nice to have.
Speaker 1: Like what I like about her story arc with Frederick
Speaker 1: included is that she you know, gets something that not
Speaker 1: a lot of women of this time got, which is
Speaker 1: like a relationship that is on her own terms and
Speaker 1: like not having. And then from a class perspective, her
Speaker 1: turning down Alor was a huge deal because that would
Speaker 1: have had her and her entire family set for life.
Speaker 1: So it was like not a small choice for her
Speaker 1: to be like, I am going to marry for love.
Speaker 1: So there is from like from having it all perspective
Speaker 1: of like she waited, I mean who it's her life.
Speaker 1: She's also not real, but like she waited until she
Speaker 1: had at least a footing in her career, and she
Speaker 1: was like pursuing what she wanted to pursue and took
Speaker 1: the chances that she was wanting to take before choosing
Speaker 1: someone to be in a relationship with, which I thought
Speaker 1: is nice in it in its way where it's like
Speaker 1: pie this guy. Sure, she becomes the most famous writer
Speaker 1: ever and is traveling the world, but in terms of
Speaker 1: like this time, it is kind of cool to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: like and she found some of that. She really loves
Speaker 1: who next her? But but aside from that, I mean,
Speaker 1: he supports her career and there you know, it's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's a complicated one. She just definitely
Speaker 1: did not marry for money, which is which is he
Speaker 1: isn't French exactly, he has nothing. So that's you know,
Speaker 1: that's of that time. That's you know, that's that would
Speaker 1: be a crazy thing, right all right and right away
Speaker 1: to turn on all right. Yeah, and the fact that
Speaker 1: no one gives her ship for it to in her
Speaker 1: family because it's like, but it does, I mean in
Speaker 1: the movie it does. There is that moment where it's
Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, she's like tying up blue ends,
Speaker 1: like she like, you know, it was okay, you're all married,
Speaker 1: you've got kids, she's dead, Okay, I'm gonna and then
Speaker 1: she basically like okay, I gotta do something, and that
Speaker 1: she just chased him. I feel like it was a
Speaker 1: little like, well I gotta do something kind of thing. Yes,
Speaker 1: someone author, but all right, I'm still nothing if I'm
Speaker 1: not married is what the world tells her. So she's like,
Speaker 1: all right, let's yeah. I was surprised, based on the
Speaker 1: more feminist choices that are made in the adaptation, that
Speaker 1: they also wouldn't have chose to leave Joe like single
Speaker 1: and pursuing her writing, but ended the movie a little
Speaker 1: earlier because it was like the movie even ends on
Speaker 1: the shot of her getting like saying she'll get married,
Speaker 1: and you're like, that wasn't the point of all this,
Speaker 1: and that's what you want to leave us on, right,
Speaker 1: we want to care about this bendle guy. Honestly to me,
Speaker 1: like I had forgotten that aspect of the whole story.
Speaker 1: I forgot that. I forgot that, and then when it
Speaker 1: was I was like, oh, yes, she does end up me.
Speaker 1: She does end up marrying, you know, which is very unbacked,
Speaker 1: isn't it, Like I mean it's I mean, it's well,
Speaker 1: I have I continue to have complicated feelings about this,
Speaker 1: where it's like a romantic relationship with a man doesn't
Speaker 1: make you not feminist if you're like a straight lady. Yes, Jamie,
Speaker 1: that means for you, but like to me, it's more
Speaker 1: about everything that had been previously established about the Joe
Speaker 1: character gets sold out. I feel when she ends up
Speaker 1: with it is it is, and it's worse than the
Speaker 1: book to where we were told in the book that
Speaker 1: it's Frederick's dream to run a school for boys, and
Speaker 1: then Joe then uses her inheritance to manifest her husband's
Speaker 1: dream and then does all that work. I think I'm
Speaker 1: more upset just by hearing you talk about like the
Speaker 1: actual truth story of of the book, like about she
Speaker 1: must marry. That makes me the saddest and not even
Speaker 1: you know, the movie or any adaptation. It's just so
Speaker 1: that's what it was, especially because Louis doesn't get like
Speaker 1: never married and never want and wanted, Fine, I'll marry her.
Speaker 1: And that sucks, Yeah, yeah, it sucks, and and and
Speaker 1: Louisa may Alcott all these things at the end that
Speaker 1: we're having issues with. She also she also like it
Speaker 1: seems like her hand was very much forced. So another
Speaker 1: thing that carried from the book that I'm kind of
Speaker 1: glad didn't make it to the movie. I think that
Speaker 1: as far as adapting this book, the Screamer does a
Speaker 1: really good job because she, like, like you were saying,
Speaker 1: she articulates feminist thoughts that were kind of like, you know,
Speaker 1: more embryos in the Louise may Alcott book and just
Speaker 1: like states them in a way that doesn't feel jarring
Speaker 1: or like out of time or anything. But in the
Speaker 1: in the book, Um, I think that the reason we're
Speaker 1: meant to believe that Joe gives up her dreams and
Speaker 1: decides I'm going to get married all very quickly is
Speaker 1: because of Beth's death. Um. And there's this little passage
Speaker 1: that I found that I found very depressing. It goes
Speaker 1: like this quote, Joe laid her wearied head down on
Speaker 1: Beth's little brown hood, which no one had thought of
Speaker 1: moving from the table where she left it. It must
Speaker 1: have possessed some magic, for the submissive spirit of its
Speaker 1: gentle owner seemed to enter into Joe. So Beth's ghost
Speaker 1: made Joe want to get married to give up, which
Speaker 1: was like, hello, Jamie, that happens to me all the time.
Speaker 1: You just taken some submissive spirits. Submissive spirit really didn't
Speaker 1: sit well. Also, that's kind of mean to Beth too.
Speaker 1: You're like, can we just can we just say this?
Speaker 1: And this is just out of nowhere. But it irked
Speaker 1: me the entire time about how just everyone kept calling
Speaker 1: Joe ugly like I couldn't, Like I was, that's your
Speaker 1: only beauty when she got out her hair herself ugly
Speaker 1: and like, I mean, we can and I know it's
Speaker 1: a movie and blah blah, but we can all admit
Speaker 1: one on a writer is anything but ugly. She is
Speaker 1: a beautiful I mean, a little gammen feminine. Just I mean,
Speaker 1: I can't every actor that's ever played is Joe is traditional,
Speaker 1: e mentionally beautiful, which is kind of frustrating because I
Speaker 1: think that, I mean, I think that's like a Hollywood
Speaker 1: thing where because it would be neat if it was, like,
Speaker 1: you know, less than typically beautiful woman playing it right
Speaker 1: right now at least, And Luisa may Alcott was not
Speaker 1: a conventionally beautiful woman and she's writing this part about
Speaker 1: herself and it's just like, well, then cast that, but
Speaker 1: people can anyway, but that just just jarring to hear it. Whatever.
Speaker 1: And it's just like because they really made that, They've
Speaker 1: really made that a part of were they tried to
Speaker 1: make that a part of her character, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. It's like that's what she had overcome physical
Speaker 1: unattracted this and people aren't buying. Yeah, we got to
Speaker 1: take another quick break, but we'll come right back, and
Speaker 1: we're back, and we're there's still so much. Well, continuing
Speaker 1: on some of the feminist sentiments in the movie, I
Speaker 1: have a few more. Amy gets in trouble at school
Speaker 1: with the whole Lime debacle and not she doesn't have
Speaker 1: twenty four limes scooters in her desk. I mean maybe
Speaker 1: that's what happened in it was modernized. Yeah, So Amy's
Speaker 1: teacher strikes Amy on the hands to punish her for
Speaker 1: having all these lines. Everyone's in an uproar, and then
Speaker 1: Amy says Mr Davis said it's as useful to educate
Speaker 1: a woman as it is to educate a female cat.
Speaker 1: And Joe is like, I'm going to fucking strangle that dude,
Speaker 1: she's great, and then Marmie writes a letter to the
Speaker 1: tacher withdrawing Amy from the school. So it's it's like,
Speaker 1: my daughters will educate themselves or be homeschooled rather than
Speaker 1: be taught by this, Like misogynist creep is the implication here, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was not that was a welt. That was yes
Speaker 1: on tiny cares and dunce, how dare you. Then there's
Speaker 1: a conversation kind of just about like the double standards
Speaker 1: for men and women and they're sort of like perceptions
Speaker 1: by society. Where this is after Meg has gone to
Speaker 1: that coming out party of her friend. I think Sally
Speaker 1: Moffatt is the name, and Joe is like, I don't
Speaker 1: like people speculating about Lori and Meg as if they
Speaker 1: are characters in some play, and Marmie is like, when
Speaker 1: nothing provokes speculation more than the sight of a woman
Speaker 1: enjoying herself. And there's like a really nice conversation that
Speaker 1: follows that, and then um, Meg is like, why is
Speaker 1: it that Lori made do Izzy likes and flirt and
Speaker 1: tipple champagne, And Marmie's like, and no one thinks the
Speaker 1: less of him? Well, I suppose for one practical reason,
Speaker 1: Laurie is a man, and as such he may vote,
Speaker 1: and hold property and pursue any profession he pleases, and
Speaker 1: so he is not so easily demeaned. And then they
Speaker 1: start talking about like, well, you know, who cares what
Speaker 1: people think? And and Meg is like, well, I kind
Speaker 1: of do, and then Marmie says, I only care what
Speaker 1: you think of yourself if you feel your value lies
Speaker 1: and being merely decorative. I fear that someday you might
Speaker 1: find yourself believing that's all you really are. Time erodes
Speaker 1: all such beauty, but what it cannot diminish is the
Speaker 1: wonderful workings of your mind. So she's like saying, like,
Speaker 1: don't just value yourself for how you look like it's
Speaker 1: your it's your brain and your mind and your thoughts
Speaker 1: and feelings that are important. I really and I like
Speaker 1: that that conversation that Meg was given, that line of
Speaker 1: dialogue being like, well but wait, and then that like
Speaker 1: I don't know, I I like how distinct they are
Speaker 1: from each other, and that like no one's perspective is
Speaker 1: treated as lesser than or and no one's really punished
Speaker 1: by the narrative for their perspective. Except of course Beth,
Speaker 1: who is an angel who has killed Um and then
Speaker 1: her spirit goes into goes into a hat at Joe
Speaker 1: puts on, and then she you know, torpedoes her narrative.
Speaker 1: But I thought that that scene was really cool. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then there's one other major scene like this that
Speaker 1: I took note of, which is like the should women vote?
Speaker 1: Scene where a couple of times Joe is in New York.
Speaker 1: There's like all these guys at this like a boarding
Speaker 1: house that she's living in, and they're talking about should
Speaker 1: women be able to vote? In Some guys like stinky right,
Speaker 1: literally this pile of stinky dudes being like, should we
Speaker 1: let women vote? What do you think? And You're like,
Speaker 1: oh god, they probably have some influence. Yeah, And so
Speaker 1: the conversation goes like this, Um, some guy is like
Speaker 1: a constitution that denies the basic rights of citizenship to
Speaker 1: women in black people? Uh. And another guy responds, well,
Speaker 1: they just passed the fifteenth Amendment. They can vote. The
Speaker 1: other guy responds, black men can vote. Someone else says like,
Speaker 1: a lady has no need of suffrage if she has
Speaker 1: a husband. And then a guy's like, if women are
Speaker 1: a moral force, shouldn't they be able to like govern,
Speaker 1: preach and testifying court. And then meanwhile, Joe is like
Speaker 1: trying to speak up, but all these like men are
Speaker 1: talking loudly and not giving her any space even though
Speaker 1: she's like the only woman in the room who could
Speaker 1: actually like offer, which is an experience all the time,
Speaker 1: still every day. Um. And then freederch is like, hey, Joe,
Speaker 1: what do you have to say? And she says, I
Speaker 1: find it poor logic to say that because women are good,
Speaker 1: women should vote. Men do not vote because they are good.
Speaker 1: They vote because they are male. And women should vote
Speaker 1: not because they are angels and men are animals, but
Speaker 1: because we are human beings and citizens of this country.
Speaker 1: So those were just a few examples of like the
Speaker 1: feminist sentiments that I was surprised were in this movie.
Speaker 1: Again based were it's supposed to be sat at the
Speaker 1: time that it's supposed to be said, it's pretty, But
Speaker 1: we read that it's because Robin Swikerd, the screenwriter who
Speaker 1: adapted this. This is from an Atlantic article entitled The
Speaker 1: Lie of Little Women from um. Sophie Gilbert writes, quote
Speaker 1: Robin Swykerd, who wrote the screenplay, created virtually every line
Speaker 1: of dialogue from scratch, saying that she had imagined what
Speaker 1: Alcott might have written had she been quote freed of
Speaker 1: the cultural restraints of her time. The results swerves from
Speaker 1: the usual homie scene to offer a politically engaged drama
Speaker 1: in which Marmie and Joe advocate for women's suffrage and
Speaker 1: none of the marches were silk because it's produced using
Speaker 1: slavery and child labor, males are Males are relegated to
Speaker 1: the margins. The March household as a matriarchy presided over
Speaker 1: by a few feminist and reformist crusader who emphasizes the
Speaker 1: importance of education and moral character rather than interior decoration. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then Swygert even names Marmi Abigail, which is Alcott's
Speaker 1: mother's name end quote. Yes, uh yeah, I and she
Speaker 1: does I think, like yeah, Robin Swiker does a really really,
Speaker 1: really good job. And Gillian Armstrong as well, who I
Speaker 1: didn't know a ton about. This is I think her
Speaker 1: most famous movie that she made, her most mainstream movie,
Speaker 1: So she's a famous Australian director. She also does a
Speaker 1: ton of UM documentaries UM and a lot of her
Speaker 1: recent work as documentaries. Her other most famous movie was
Speaker 1: also adapted from an old as book UH called My
Speaker 1: Brilliant Career, So that was in It was the first
Speaker 1: Australian feature length film to be directed by a woman
Speaker 1: for forty six years. Uh. So she's like a pioneer
Speaker 1: in in uh film as well. So I think between
Speaker 1: like Robin swaker It and Julian I'm strong, they they
Speaker 1: got it unlock. Yeah, and it's like really cool that
Speaker 1: all that stuff, you know, made it in and didn't
Speaker 1: get like noted out of the movie, like I got
Speaker 1: noted out of the book right right exactly. And then
Speaker 1: I mean another thing I just really like both about
Speaker 1: the book and the movie is that like and this
Speaker 1: kind of manifests in a in a weird way that
Speaker 1: you were talking about earlier, Deborah, but like Joe is
Speaker 1: described as like being boyish and not conventionally attractive, but
Speaker 1: she was often saying things like oh, like I wish
Speaker 1: I wish I were a boy and like and that
Speaker 1: can be you know, read a couple of different ways
Speaker 1: where it's like, okay, like is this is this part
Speaker 1: of maybe her possible queer identity or is she saying
Speaker 1: something to the effect of like if I were a boy,
Speaker 1: I would have like the freedoms and men have at
Speaker 1: this time. But you know, I just I like the
Speaker 1: like you see them dressing up as men several times.
Speaker 1: You know, she's she's often just described as a tomboy,
Speaker 1: and I thought that was cool, especially for a story
Speaker 1: that takes place in a time when gender rules were
Speaker 1: so rigid, yeah, even more than they are now. So
Speaker 1: I kind of like, yeah, I like that. The movie
Speaker 1: doesn't you know, like hamper itself down by getting more
Speaker 1: specific with any of it either, just like opens it
Speaker 1: up to more interpretations and like readings and makes it
Speaker 1: more accessible to more people. So it's good. I'm training
Speaker 1: the Oath and that scene, I mean, it's just worth
Speaker 1: shouting out like that, the scene where Joe turns down
Speaker 1: Laurie is like so good. Yeah, it's so good. I
Speaker 1: love to watch it. I went back and I just
Speaker 1: googled that scene and other adaptations of it because it's
Speaker 1: just great to watch and like for like reasons we've
Speaker 1: already talked about, but that seemed just like it sucks
Speaker 1: me up. It's so exciting too, because that really happens
Speaker 1: in any rom com, any sort of romantic movie. But
Speaker 1: to have it just mean again, I know it's but
Speaker 1: just disadaptation obviously, but just having the woman saying no
Speaker 1: to the many, changing her mind at the end and
Speaker 1: showing up in the rain, you know, and being like,
Speaker 1: you see it was always like that never. It's just
Speaker 1: it's pretty impressive. It's really cool. She was like, I
Speaker 1: think of you as a brother, don't kiss me, like
Speaker 1: and then and truly means it, And You're just like,
Speaker 1: that's no, meant no, right, because normally in stories like
Speaker 1: this you would see like the Lori character like wearing
Speaker 1: her down until she finally submits. Instead he does that
Speaker 1: to Amy, but at least with Joe, she's like she
Speaker 1: probably really wasn't mad about the Amy she actually wanted.
Speaker 1: I would be, well, I think, well, I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess it's not you know, in the days of texting,
Speaker 1: but like it would be weird to find out and
Speaker 1: because I married your sister, oh, I mean the pigeon
Speaker 1: never made it or whatever it was, to finding out
Speaker 1: on Instagram, it would be really seriously, tell me, are
Speaker 1: you kidding? I wasn't even invited. I'm literally my best friend.
Speaker 1: That would be crazy, That would be a little crazy,
Speaker 1: And I guess it would be strange. Although I do
Speaker 1: you know anybody in your life that is married their
Speaker 1: best friend's sister? I do know someone. I think that's
Speaker 1: just a little weird because I don't know. But like,
Speaker 1: I think we're possessive over our friends, aren't we a little?
Speaker 1: I think a little bit. Yeah, I don't my best
Speaker 1: friend out if I get Yeah, like if my like
Speaker 1: cousin married like someone I did in high school, I'd
Speaker 1: be like, you'd still be necessary. Really, I'm not mad.
Speaker 1: There's still be that there's a slight factor. It's just like,
Speaker 1: right a minute, Like for me, it's more about like
Speaker 1: what do they have in commons? Like why are they sudden?
Speaker 1: Why is he suddenly like? Because that is we could
Speaker 1: say that that's Lorie's sort of redeeming characteristic that he
Speaker 1: did like Joe so much because you know, not yes
Speaker 1: exactly for the right reasons, that they just really truly
Speaker 1: got each other and had fun and challenged each other.
Speaker 1: There's a great joke during that scene when he's proposing.
Speaker 1: She's like, no, we have such horrible tempers. He's like, no,
Speaker 1: I can keep mine under control unless provoked. I laughed
Speaker 1: out loud. But then you know, then he marries the
Speaker 1: pretty little girl like he's supposed to and Amy and
Speaker 1: Amy also it's like I think she's sort of given
Speaker 1: some like first of all, she's kind of dunked on,
Speaker 1: I think unfairly by him several times. You've brought up
Speaker 1: a couple of them. But there's also Amy is about
Speaker 1: to marry someone else, and it does seem to be
Speaker 1: largely for financial reason, but like she mentioned several times,
Speaker 1: which you like, dude, it's like eighteens, like seventy and
Speaker 1: like this, but he wants to use that is one
Speaker 1: of his Lorie did like I could give you everything
Speaker 1: you wanted, so the same thing, and I just I
Speaker 1: don't know, just like shaming her so that she into
Speaker 1: dating him. Was like, well, this is like this criticism
Speaker 1: is not coming from a place of caring. It's coming
Speaker 1: from a place of horny nous and the and and
Speaker 1: Amy like I feel like she's like sort of allowed
Speaker 1: to stand up for herself. But then she ends up
Speaker 1: marrying him anyways, where he's like, oh, well, your family
Speaker 1: is so chill, and she's like, well, I don't want
Speaker 1: to marry you because you think my family's chill. And
Speaker 1: then he's like no, no, no, I like you. I
Speaker 1: like you. I want to march, but I'll take it anyway.
Speaker 1: I'll get anywhere I can get in there. I'll marry death,
Speaker 1: dead body death, march. Um. Can we talk about Beth briefly? Beth?
Speaker 1: I mean there's unfortunately we don't know that much like Piano,
Speaker 1: she likes. Yes, she's very I think Beth is interesting.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's been a lot of different reads on
Speaker 1: Beth as well, which are like, I think some of
Speaker 1: them have some strength to them, but for the most part,
Speaker 1: it seems like Beth and um, Louise and Mailcott sister
Speaker 1: who passed away at twenty two was literally named Elizabeth
Speaker 1: and so she just called her Bath instead of Lizzie
Speaker 1: in the book. So it's like pretty one to one
Speaker 1: with how that character was adapted. But the way that
Speaker 1: she's adapted in the movies I think is like kind
Speaker 1: of worth discussing because she is such a like delicate feminine,
Speaker 1: Like I think all the traditional feminine values of this
Speaker 1: time are all represented in bad see not heard very
Speaker 1: way and just that sort of like yeah, kind of
Speaker 1: forgotten almost if you will, right, which is like kind
Speaker 1: of I mean, she's surrounded by all these very strong personalities,
Speaker 1: and she's like more reticent, she shy, she doesn't like
Speaker 1: the spotlight and a and all this stuff, and she's
Speaker 1: I think, kind of presented as like this feminine ideal
Speaker 1: in a way. But then she dies. But it's like,
Speaker 1: but it it was interesting of I was reading some
Speaker 1: like takes on the character of like that's a statement
Speaker 1: from Louis mal from the writers saying that, like this
Speaker 1: type of femininity can't uphold for much longer or it's
Speaker 1: growing less relevant. And these characters that are very strong
Speaker 1: willed and challenging status quo is constantly like Joe and
Speaker 1: like Marmie, are the ones that endure. And then the
Speaker 1: sort of shrinking violet person exercise the ones that get
Speaker 1: to run around a bit, right right, which Marmie says herself,
Speaker 1: let the girls outside, Like what are we thinking? She
Speaker 1: us fifteen from the movie starts, and then four years later, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: she's very young, and I mean and but then it's
Speaker 1: like you have to take it with a grain of salt,
Speaker 1: because Louisa mail cut sister died very tragically at a
Speaker 1: similar age, and it truly might just be a one
Speaker 1: to one, but it is interesting. I think that she
Speaker 1: is the least developed character of the Little Women, and
Speaker 1: I mean I think probably that and maybe the scene
Speaker 1: with Lori and Joe are like the two most remembered
Speaker 1: things about this movie is of course turns on the
Speaker 1: proposal and that died absolutely and the hair hair off
Speaker 1: it's another one, but cutting your hair off to which
Speaker 1: has nothing doing anything but like um, But yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, there's not really that much to
Speaker 1: say about Beth, unfortunately, but it is. It is interesting
Speaker 1: the way that she's pretty consistently represented. I don't think
Speaker 1: that there's really any made many different takes on Clordine
Speaker 1: isn't given much to do except to I mean, it
Speaker 1: must have been a chill shoot for her. She's mostly
Speaker 1: lame and just having Susan Sarandon hold her hand, You're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I get, where's the check? That's great? Yeah. I wonder
Speaker 1: if this new adaptation, the Greta Gerwig one will maybe
Speaker 1: give us playing good question Eliza Scanlon, who I am
Speaker 1: not familiar with here, but she plays Beth. Emma Watson's Meg,
Speaker 1: so Sharonan is Joe and Florence Pugh is Amy. But
Speaker 1: so that's Beth. We talked a little bit about Amy.
Speaker 1: Meg is interesting. Jill Loftis my mother famously played Meg
Speaker 1: in the Brocton High School adaptation of Little Women. My
Speaker 1: mom Laurie played Lorie. No, that's not kid Um. I
Speaker 1: like Meg, and I like what her character kind of
Speaker 1: represents in the story because they like it's so, you know, rare,
Speaker 1: especially in Louise may Alcot's time for women to be
Speaker 1: the protagonist of the story at all, much less a
Speaker 1: lot of different types of women who are constantly disagreeing
Speaker 1: because their siblings, but they also have like a very
Speaker 1: strong bond they love each other. And Meg, I think,
Speaker 1: is like the representation in this very headstrong family of
Speaker 1: someone who craves something a little more traditional. And I
Speaker 1: thought it was cool to see, even though like when
Speaker 1: I was little, I was like Meg go somewhere too.
Speaker 1: But but it's like she she's clear about what she wants.
Speaker 1: She wants a married life, she wants a family, and
Speaker 1: no one gives her a ship for it. They're just
Speaker 1: like Marmie's very supportive. She's just like, well, if that's
Speaker 1: what you want, you know, do whatever you want. And
Speaker 1: then when she's like, I want to marry this loser.
Speaker 1: Marmie's like, I guess, whatever your your choice, like a
Speaker 1: loser who says um over the mysteries of female life
Speaker 1: there is drawn a veil best left undisturbed, basically meaning
Speaker 1: I don't know what the women do, and I don't
Speaker 1: I don't want to find it, and I'm not going
Speaker 1: to look it up. So I mean, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of talk in this movie, especially the first half, before
Speaker 1: any of the women, the little women are married, about
Speaker 1: getting married. There's all this talk about who they might marry.
Speaker 1: Should you marry a rich man or is it okay
Speaker 1: to marry a poor man? Will anyone ever want to
Speaker 1: marry any of them? Will there be suitors for them?
Speaker 1: At one point on March big fan of Aunt March,
Speaker 1: love her, She's basically at March. Yeah. I love that
Speaker 1: scene when Laurie's like, I think they're in France later
Speaker 1: on and he's like, oh, Aunt March, you're looking well,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I wish I could say the same,
Speaker 1: like you look like shitri he does. He has like
Speaker 1: a shitty little beer and that he's got the like
Speaker 1: you know, but the undone sort of tuxedo, which is
Speaker 1: a classic drunk, Yeah, he moved and trying the band,
Speaker 1: and you're like, Aunt March is not having it. But
Speaker 1: Aunt March is saying pretty early on in the movie
Speaker 1: to Marmy the one hope this family has is for
Speaker 1: Meg to marry well. And then Joe comes in and
Speaker 1: Aunt March is like, and this one's entirely ruined her
Speaker 1: disposition with books, so, you know, maybe not the feminist
Speaker 1: icon we were all hoping for. But later Marmy and
Speaker 1: Meg are talking about Meg marrying John Brooke and she's
Speaker 1: and you know, Marmy saying like, oh, you know, I
Speaker 1: would rather Meg that you marry for love and be
Speaker 1: a poor man's wife than Mary for riches and lose
Speaker 1: your self respect. So which I like. I like them.
Speaker 1: I like the message of it. I just was the
Speaker 1: poor man she chose wasn't a asshole. And then Joe
Speaker 1: chimes in and says, well, why must we marry it all?
Speaker 1: And it's like cool that you have that perspective from
Speaker 1: a female character in this like nineteenth century story. But
Speaker 1: then she goes and marries Frederick for no reason. It's frustrating,
Speaker 1: but I mean, I'm happy for Meg, but there the
Speaker 1: I mean there's just I have a small I hate
Speaker 1: John's character so much, and he's so much worse in
Speaker 1: the book. I have just a quick pull quote. So
Speaker 1: this happens right after Meg gives birth. Right, she just
Speaker 1: put her underwear back on after giving birth to and
Speaker 1: then do you were? Meg's like, Marmy, I don't know
Speaker 1: how you did it four times? And then John's like, well,
Speaker 1: she didn't do it twice at once, Like shut up?
Speaker 1: So annoying, but okay. So Mega is very recently given birth,
Speaker 1: and John is mad because he is not getting as
Speaker 1: much attention as literal babies. So John yells, quote, where's
Speaker 1: the beef and vegetables I sent home? And the pudding
Speaker 1: you promised? Alcott wrote that John was a mild man,
Speaker 1: but he was human, explaining that a man can't be
Speaker 1: expected to conduct himself properly when he's hungry. Um, let's
Speaker 1: see there. Here's here's another passage quote. The poor man
Speaker 1: was very uncomfortable, for the children had bereft him of
Speaker 1: his wife. Home was merely a nursery, and the perpetual
Speaker 1: hushing made him feel like a brutal intruder whenever he
Speaker 1: entered the secret precincts of baby dumb um so, and
Speaker 1: I guess like Alcott ends up being very sympathetic to
Speaker 1: John of like, well, of course he's yelling at her.
Speaker 1: She's breastfeeding two children all the time. You're like, that's
Speaker 1: that's a great reason to not yell at her. She's
Speaker 1: literally so busy. Um. But I don't, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I get. Yeah, the men the milk care in this
Speaker 1: movie are either not good role models or just basically
Speaker 1: absent from the story, which is kind of right. I mean,
Speaker 1: I didn't need more men around in this movie. Sure,
Speaker 1: And like Friedrich, I wish had if he had kind
Speaker 1: of taken it upon himself to be maybe like a
Speaker 1: mentor to Joe and been like, let me help lift
Speaker 1: you up as a like woman being a writer. But
Speaker 1: the fact that he's like, I don't like these stories.
Speaker 1: You should write different stories, and right, I felt because
Speaker 1: I totally forgot everything that happened with Friedrich. And so
Speaker 1: the first time when he criticizes her, and she's like
Speaker 1: very taken it back and it's like that this is
Speaker 1: my life's work, and he like immediately apologizes and it's
Speaker 1: like I'm sorry that was out of line. I shouldn't
Speaker 1: have said that. I'm like, Okay, I guess, let's see
Speaker 1: where this goes. And then she sort of becomes receptive
Speaker 1: to dating him after he apologizes to her, but then
Speaker 1: he does it again and and it's like that's kind
Speaker 1: of so an adaptation change that the screenwriter makes in
Speaker 1: this movie is that she has Joe leave New York
Speaker 1: shortly after she like cuts him off after he criticizes
Speaker 1: her the second time and doubles down in the book,
Speaker 1: Joe takes it very personally and stops writing. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: she like stops writing for a long time and then
Speaker 1: only starts writing again when she's writing her memoirs, when
Speaker 1: she starts writing Little Women. Basically, Um, So, the movie,
Speaker 1: I mean tries to do some damage control around that,
Speaker 1: but it's still just like there's also I think an
Speaker 1: attempt to kind of have the perspective of the movie
Speaker 1: to agree with Friedrich in the sense that like we
Speaker 1: see Joe not necessarily really wanting to write these stories
Speaker 1: but doing it because like that's what the newspapers want
Speaker 1: or like that's what I think, and and suggesting that
Speaker 1: she wishes she could write something else, but like no
Speaker 1: one wants to hear girls stories or whatever, but like
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I've had male people men uh
Speaker 1: that's what they're called to tell me. Like when I
Speaker 1: was in grad school, like I had male professors be
Speaker 1: like because I was writing like action comedies, and they're like,
Speaker 1: but Caitlin, like are you sure you want to write these?
Speaker 1: Like why don't you write something more personal? And I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't want to, Like I'm writing the
Speaker 1: things that I want to write, and it's to me
Speaker 1: like it felt to me like that's what Joe was doing.
Speaker 1: Like she was writing the things that she wanted to write,
Speaker 1: and then at the persuasion of this like male mentor
Speaker 1: of hers, she's like, Okay, fine, I'll write about yeah,
Speaker 1: which really bugged me. But that's another thing directly pulled
Speaker 1: from Alcott's life is like she was and she continued
Speaker 1: to write her fantasy stories. I'm not many of which
Speaker 1: I think are still in existence, but the stuff she
Speaker 1: was actually passionate about, and I think she's kind of
Speaker 1: used a little women into like bankroll her being able
Speaker 1: to do stuff she actually wanted to do, but she
Speaker 1: still had to write it under an assumed name, which
Speaker 1: Joe also does she writes under a male name, Louisa
Speaker 1: did as well. It's just like God, what a mess mess? Uh?
Speaker 1: Does anyone have any other final thoughts? Um? I think
Speaker 1: that an adaptation of Little Women for a story that
Speaker 1: takes place literally during the Civil War should not have
Speaker 1: one thousand white people yet seems like a very specific
Speaker 1: and bizarre omission that any more modern adaptation should have included.
Speaker 1: I mean, kind of, let's see what this the next
Speaker 1: one is. I mean, you know, I was like, credit
Speaker 1: card doesn't have a great track record white people, but
Speaker 1: let's let's let's see. Let's see. That reminds me of
Speaker 1: when we covered The Beguiled, that story that completely omits
Speaker 1: a black character who is in the novel and then
Speaker 1: and in the first movement and then the first move
Speaker 1: V and then Sofia Coppola chooses to because she is
Speaker 1: not black and doesn't understand how to write black characters,
Speaker 1: decides to complete omit that character. Yes, I felt that
Speaker 1: to where, especially because, like al Caught, her parents were abolitionists,
Speaker 1: there were slaves fleeing to freedom passing through their house.
Speaker 1: In fact, I read a story that she found one
Speaker 1: such person, like hiding in an unused oven in her
Speaker 1: house when she was like seven years old, so she
Speaker 1: would have had interactions with black people and the fact
Speaker 1: that they're omitted from the book, and then I also
Speaker 1: not included in any adaptation. I very much understand why
Speaker 1: that would be omitted from the book. I think that
Speaker 1: that would be very very hard to get published. Um,
Speaker 1: in the time that she read it. I don't understand
Speaker 1: why it hasn't been included in future adaptations because it's basically,
Speaker 1: uh biopic with different names. So it's like, if these
Speaker 1: things were happening and we're a big part and she's
Speaker 1: from an abolitionist family, like include that in a meaningful way,
Speaker 1: like it is not disloyal to the source material, but
Speaker 1: it's literally right there. Um, So that's yeah. It's always
Speaker 1: weird to see a movie about the Civil War that
Speaker 1: only has white people in it. And I think that
Speaker 1: was my last thing. Yes, my last thing is that
Speaker 1: the March family has many cats. Little son my cats
Speaker 1: started mowing. Yeah, there's a there's little kittens, there's a
Speaker 1: few adult cats. There's just and just a reminder to
Speaker 1: everyone out there that cats do have eight nipples and
Speaker 1: that's cat facts. With Caitlin and this household has dozens
Speaker 1: and nipples living under one roof, one enormous roof, because
Speaker 1: again they lived a huge house. The I love that narrative.
Speaker 1: You're just like, we're so I mean, and it's like,
Speaker 1: but if they include the actual Louisa may alcots out,
Speaker 1: they're like, well, our dad's making us be vegan, but
Speaker 1: we only have meat, so we're starving. The last thing
Speaker 1: I wanted to say it was about adaptation stuff where
Speaker 1: I think that, like, this is like the best adaptation
Speaker 1: of this that I've seen, But there's also a list
Speaker 1: in the New Republic of just like other ways that
Speaker 1: the source material has been interpreted in very specific times.
Speaker 1: And my favorite stupid one is in THEE. I don't
Speaker 1: remember this, but this was like post war big capitalism boom, consume, consume, consume,
Speaker 1: And so they add in a little women's shopping spree
Speaker 1: scene where the Marchin sisters get a little bit of
Speaker 1: coin and they go to town because women be a
Speaker 1: shopping They get Aunt march just like writes them a
Speaker 1: check and they're like, let's go shopping. Like and then
Speaker 1: just which is a very stu I just I want
Speaker 1: to see that scene. Yes, it's so out of place.
Speaker 1: I want to see it. It's so extremely Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that's all I had. Yeah, no one else I
Speaker 1: think it. No, that's good, will do it? Yeah? Well
Speaker 1: does the movie pass the back to Tista? Does? Yeah?
Speaker 1: They do talk about men a lot. They do talk
Speaker 1: about men a lot, but a lot of daddy talk,
Speaker 1: a lott of LORI talk heavily male, you know, dominated
Speaker 1: in no one's conversation, not meningitis. That should be men
Speaker 1: men more like yeah, more more like little women. Technically
Speaker 1: it does pass the women right right, think about it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, there are many scenes where you know, they're
Speaker 1: talking about hair and dresses and you know, pretty traditionally
Speaker 1: feminine things. But the baldest women is in charge. Rule works.
Speaker 1: But then she was back out again. Yes, well she y.
Speaker 1: I also like that she didn't keep that upkeep I
Speaker 1: mean that day, so she wasn't going for a trim
Speaker 1: every eight week. She had to grow back out. She
Speaker 1: also like that she got sad for a minute and
Speaker 1: then she That was really funny because they're like, are
Speaker 1: you because that was like when Beth goes up to her,
Speaker 1: it's like, are you sad? Because daddy got injured in
Speaker 1: the war. She's like, no, my hair, and then the
Speaker 1: next day she was like, actually, looks nice. I have
Speaker 1: cried after so many haircuts. I also like that Beth
Speaker 1: starts laughing. I was like, yeah, we don't care that
Speaker 1: dad got injured in the war. Oh gosh, um, So
Speaker 1: let's write it on our nipple scale to five nipples.
Speaker 1: Based on the representation of women, I think I'd give
Speaker 1: this like a three and a half or four, maybe
Speaker 1: even because I don't even know how much we actually
Speaker 1: talked about this during the discussion, but it is a
Speaker 1: movie where almost all the main characters are women, very
Speaker 1: female driven story. Women are the focus. Women's stories and
Speaker 1: characters and their growths and arcs like that is the
Speaker 1: core of the film. The fact that you get these
Speaker 1: feminist sentiments sprinkled throughout that. I mean, definitely progressive for
Speaker 1: her story set in Civil War era, and then even
Speaker 1: progressive for something from ninety four like expecting that really
Speaker 1: And while I feel things kind of fall apart by
Speaker 1: the end where the focus does become more on the
Speaker 1: relationship that these little women have with men, and especially
Speaker 1: the Joe character, I feel being sold out because she
Speaker 1: had previously been established as someone who's like, no, I'm
Speaker 1: not really interested in being a wife. I'm not really
Speaker 1: interested in being married. I just want to pursue my writing.
Speaker 1: And then Friedrich comes along and she's like, well, even
Speaker 1: though you made me change everything I write about, we
Speaker 1: should maybe end up together. I didn't like that. But overall,
Speaker 1: I really like this movie, and I like what it's
Speaker 1: trying to do, and I think it is generally executed
Speaker 1: pretty well. Just stay for a few little beats that
Speaker 1: I wasn't too crazy about. But yeah, overall, I'll give
Speaker 1: it a three point seven. I will give one nipple
Speaker 1: to Aunt March, I will give one to Marmie, one
Speaker 1: to Joe, and I'll give my three quarters of a
Speaker 1: nipple to the little cute, little orange Katie Cat. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna I think three and a half. Yeah. I like
Speaker 1: this movie, so I feel like this is the best
Speaker 1: adaptation so far. I hope that, like Greta Garroway kind
Speaker 1: of keeps pushing it. I mean, based on the trailer alone,
Speaker 1: I feel like we're going to see quite a bit
Speaker 1: of it. Although Debrah's Joe runs a lot of criticism,
Speaker 1: I think is alive and well, we see Sarscha puts
Speaker 1: in ten thousand steps easily. She women be running to
Speaker 1: indicate that their spirit is Yeah, it's a thing, it's
Speaker 1: a thing. But no, I mean I think that this
Speaker 1: is like it does, it does, it does? Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I like that a lot of There's two women from
Speaker 1: the production team of this movie that are coming back
Speaker 1: to work on the Gerwig movie. Denise da Novi, who
Speaker 1: is a producer on the main producer in this movie,
Speaker 1: is also producing the new one. And then Robin spikers back.
Speaker 1: So it seems like they have people who have a
Speaker 1: history like the you know, I hope this is the
Speaker 1: next m c U l W the uh you know.
Speaker 1: And then we meet more little women. There's so many.
Speaker 1: There's some of them are looking for special rock and
Speaker 1: then they fight each other. I uh, the that was
Speaker 1: like I think I just pitched a terrible funny or
Speaker 1: died sketch. Um, but I watch Yeah, No, I think
Speaker 1: it's really good. And yeah, I mean there's definitely things
Speaker 1: about it that are of its time, but a lot
Speaker 1: is also course corrected. Um. I want to give the
Speaker 1: production team the benefit of the doubt and say that
Speaker 1: ending the scene on Joe deciding to get married was
Speaker 1: a studio note and not something that anyone actually wanted
Speaker 1: to do, because it just doesn't it seems like totally
Speaker 1: dissonant with the rest of I think. Yeah, I would,
Speaker 1: I would say, so that is them going, let's let's
Speaker 1: tie this up nicely. Every Yeah, and everyone was kicking
Speaker 1: each other under the table, but they had to do
Speaker 1: it because that's where the money was coming. Right. It's
Speaker 1: like it seems like a male executive note. It does
Speaker 1: at the end, but but for the most part, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, like giving Marmie a name, giving Marmy a
Speaker 1: feminist identity, and and just I mean to like shout
Speaker 1: out the original book to like Louise was really cool.
Speaker 1: She seemed like she would be really mean to me.
Speaker 1: I got a big step on my neck energy from
Speaker 1: because she was just like, you like my work. I
Speaker 1: don't like she just was like, she seemed like a
Speaker 1: really fun she said. She wrote the second half of
Speaker 1: the story good wives quote in a very stupid style.
Speaker 1: She says, there's also I read a quote that this
Speaker 1: other sequel, Joe's Boys. She said she was so just
Speaker 1: like piste off about having to write the whole thing
Speaker 1: that by the end she wished she could have had
Speaker 1: the school for boys that they open up just get
Speaker 1: swallowed up by an earthquake. I'm paraphrasing, but but something
Speaker 1: like that. I do like when people start to resent
Speaker 1: their cash cow. It's I think that's really like very
Speaker 1: It's humanizing, isn't it. It's like, all, yeah, we get it,
Speaker 1: we get it. Sometimes to do it for the paycheck,
Speaker 1: you know, Oh god, what about you? I would say,
Speaker 1: you know, I think we all agree it's around a
Speaker 1: three point five it is, right. I just they lose
Speaker 1: a point. They lose a nipple or two for me,
Speaker 1: because it's just the word insipid comes up for me.
Speaker 1: And I know that's of the time, but it just
Speaker 1: it did it. It irked me a little bit. Um,
Speaker 1: it just really did it. And I know I'm being
Speaker 1: ah too picky, but um, but generally speaking, right, it
Speaker 1: was you know, it was they didn't do little women
Speaker 1: and and replace it like we see in comedy so much.
Speaker 1: They'll be like it's a it's a women's festival, but
Speaker 1: there's four male headliners. Like they didn't do that, and
Speaker 1: I mean they didn't go a little women, but there's
Speaker 1: a brother at this one. Like there was none of that.
Speaker 1: So that in and God bless them because they could
Speaker 1: and I'm sure they got notes for it, so you
Speaker 1: have to still really give them, you know, three and
Speaker 1: a half nipples, three point seven five nipples for that.
Speaker 1: So thank you very much on that one, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, come on, we've all been there.
Speaker 1: It's just like a woman show. But there's three guys. Okay,
Speaker 1: we got Yeah. The twist is they haven't assaulted a woman.
Speaker 1: You're like, okay, well they've earned their place here. T J.
Speaker 1: Miller's back in movies. You see that, Yeah, that underwater
Speaker 1: killing me now, which I would but with normally that
Speaker 1: my kind of I love that sort of genre that
Speaker 1: I do. But I know when he's not the preview,
Speaker 1: like I think I shrieked out like that kind of
Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, keep it in, canceled, not
Speaker 1: anymore anyway. Anyway. To conclude, little Women, pretty good, pretty good,
Speaker 1: pretty is. Yeah, Debora, thank you so much for joining
Speaker 1: us for a third time. Girls, ladies, humans, little WoT
Speaker 1: woman dudes exactly. Always a pleasure, truly. Where can people
Speaker 1: follow your stuff? Um? Instagram, I'm Debora d g And
Speaker 1: on Twitter, I'm Debora Dgovanny. I know it's my whole name.
Speaker 1: How awful. But yeah, d E b R A d
Speaker 1: G is what you can usually find me excellent. You
Speaker 1: can follow us US little women, US grown ass women
Speaker 1: on social media at bectel cast Rain and review us
Speaker 1: if you would for this holiday season give us a
Speaker 1: nice five star Apple podcasts and whatnot. You can subscribe
Speaker 1: to our Patreon a k a. Matreon by going to
Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash Bechtel Cast and it's only five
Speaker 1: dollars a month. You get access to the entire back
Speaker 1: catalog and it's a real treat. Give thank you the
Speaker 1: gift of the Matreon. It keeps on giving instead of
Speaker 1: the fun the gift of the Madgi the gift of
Speaker 1: the Matreon. Yeah. Also, you can grab some of our
Speaker 1: merch at t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast.
Speaker 1: We've got all of our designs there and I think
Speaker 1: that about does it. Yeahl bye bye bye