Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef in best
Speaker 1: start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hi, welcome
Speaker 1: to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, my
Speaker 1: name is Caitlin Darante. And we were trying to think
Speaker 1: of a dancing way to introduce this episode if we
Speaker 1: couldn't think of any Yeah, it's probably has something to
Speaker 1: do with dance being more of a visual medium. You
Speaker 1: nagged me off, Michael, and I heard, wait, I'm still
Speaker 1: stuck on Cats. So I'm like, well, I wanted to
Speaker 1: do like a little skimble Shanks shuffle, but this movie
Speaker 1: doesn't have a there's a parallel because there's a lot
Speaker 1: of ballet in both Cats and center Stage. That's what ballet.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, yes, okay, I was like, hold on,
Speaker 1: I think even like actor overlap, just just the art form. Yes,
Speaker 1: the art form, the art form. Yes, Um, well it's
Speaker 1: a dance episode. And you know, next time we do
Speaker 1: a dance episode, we'll we'll cook on it. In the meantime,
Speaker 1: I figure it out, Well, we have got Black Swan
Speaker 1: coming up. I know, so there's really not much time.
Speaker 1: There's really not much time. Uh so what we're talking
Speaker 1: about center stage today? This is the Bechtel Cast is
Speaker 1: our podcast where we talk about, um, how women are
Speaker 1: portrayed in movies usually not that good? Correct? And we
Speaker 1: used the how dare you do bad? Grant? Well you
Speaker 1: already yelled at me about dance being a visual media.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. Um. We used the Bechdel Test as
Speaker 1: a jumping off point, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test,
Speaker 1: which is a media metric created by cartoonist Alison Bechdel.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, here's something fun. Yeah, Betel knows the show exists. Wait,
Speaker 1: how do we yesterday? I'll tell you off my but
Speaker 1: I found it. She she knows that. I don't think
Speaker 1: she's ever listened to it, but she hurts. She's heard
Speaker 1: of it. Okay, she's heard of it, and that's a start.
Speaker 1: That's a start. She doesn't hate it, she's not gonna
Speaker 1: see us that it was like. She can then feel
Speaker 1: like stop yeah, no, no season desist yet. So she's neutral,
Speaker 1: all right, she's neutral. Awesome? So what's the test? It
Speaker 1: requires that two female identifying characters with names speak to
Speaker 1: each other about something other than a man for at
Speaker 1: least two lines. That's our bar. Yes, that's bar, dance
Speaker 1: dance bar. Wish we didn't we didn't. We got there.
Speaker 1: We're dancers. Yes, you are a dancer, Jamie, I mean
Speaker 1: have been. I was for fifteen years and then I
Speaker 1: became a visual arts made chair and that's my story. Wow,
Speaker 1: I'm basically well, not know because Maureen was good, never
Speaker 1: mind her mom, but like her mom cared and she
Speaker 1: was good. So I'm not Maureen. I see, I grew
Speaker 1: up playing soccer, so I didn't have dance. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: bend it like Beckham. If we have to be from
Speaker 1: the early adds, maybe a little more center stage. You're
Speaker 1: a little more bend it like Beckham. Definitely. We have
Speaker 1: a guest as always. She is wonderful. She's a writer, comedian,
Speaker 1: host of What a Day podcast. It's Aquila Hues. I
Speaker 1: thought I was going to say dog, and then I said, y'all,
Speaker 1: I'm surprised myself. We can't. Yeah, the weird dog and
Speaker 1: this and this is a cat's podcast. This is a
Speaker 1: cat's community. Honestly, I wish we were talking about cats.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it filmed with no choruses, no no
Speaker 1: real dancing, no plot, no assholes. It's a lot of things,
Speaker 1: no asshole. It's that when someone pointed out it out
Speaker 1: to me, I couldn't see it all write no cat butts.
Speaker 1: Cats have like assholes. Yeah, like they walk in the
Speaker 1: room backwards. It's weird that we're not talking about it,
Speaker 1: but I guess we're at least we're talking about cats.
Speaker 1: That's true. That's true as long as we're weird. Our
Speaker 1: goal is to keep the conversation going around Cats until
Speaker 1: it makes us budget back. So we're talking about it
Speaker 1: for years. Yeah, you all were saying, what actor has
Speaker 1: a crossover in both? I'm like, yeah, all the people
Speaker 1: who were in Center Stage went on to have better career,
Speaker 1: and everyone who's in Cats regrets it in inspiring the age.
Speaker 1: I wonder if, like the they approached the dad from
Speaker 1: the O C. They're like, you want to be in Cats?
Speaker 1: He's like, no, I'm good. I was the dad from
Speaker 1: the O C. So yes, I'd like to live on
Speaker 1: my eyebrow legacy and not this garbage fire. Thanks though, Wow, anyway,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. Uh so you
Speaker 1: brought us center stage. What's your history your relationship with
Speaker 1: this movie? Honestly, we never rented it. My family was
Speaker 1: never renting family. So I watched it probably a couple
Speaker 1: of years after it came out on Basic cable. Came
Speaker 1: on every day, uh, and I really loved it. It
Speaker 1: was a movie that I think I watched by myself.
Speaker 1: I was the youngest of four, and I'm like, there's
Speaker 1: not a lot of memories of watching movies alone. This
Speaker 1: was really formative for me. I just thought dancing was
Speaker 1: so cool and moving to New York to dance would
Speaker 1: be so cool. So I made my mom enrolled me
Speaker 1: in ballet classes after seeing this movie. Yeah, media is influential.
Speaker 1: Before we'll say it again exactly is like, look, there's
Speaker 1: a black person in this and she's a total bitch.
Speaker 1: I identified let me be a dancer, and uh yeah.
Speaker 1: My ballet teacher quit like after like three weeks because
Speaker 1: she said I didn't know how to tuck my po
Speaker 1: poe in, which is her word for asked. So I
Speaker 1: think it's just how it was shaped. But it was
Speaker 1: really disappointing at the Salvation Army that afternoon. Where is
Speaker 1: my teacher? Did you continue to study dance or study
Speaker 1: is a real that's loaded words did a lot of words.
Speaker 1: I So I auditioned for the dance team in high
Speaker 1: school and like, I didn't break my ankle, but very
Speaker 1: nearly broke my ankles, and then I went on to
Speaker 1: audition in crutches, like while practicing, I felt like Eric Jones. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, it was far more embarrassing because
Speaker 1: I was also in puberty among hot peers. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it was it was. Yeah, that was probably the end
Speaker 1: of dancing. I mean I did like musicals in college
Speaker 1: and stuff, but you know, step ball change, not a
Speaker 1: lot of like leaping. Sure. Um, I had never seen
Speaker 1: this movie before prepping well for the episode thank you
Speaker 1: so much. And I will admit and this is embarrassing,
Speaker 1: but I thought that this movie and Saved the Last
Speaker 1: Dance were the same movie. I just had no I like,
Speaker 1: I kind of knew both. I definitely have seen Saved
Speaker 1: the Last Dance, but I was like, oh, yeah, I've
Speaker 1: seen Center Stage and I was like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen this because this is a different movie
Speaker 1: from Save the Last Dance. There were a lot of
Speaker 1: dance movies back then, and they all revolved around like
Speaker 1: white dancers trying to be a little different. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and I think say The Last Days came out like
Speaker 1: the year after they came out, right, so I definitely
Speaker 1: was a bigger hit the Last Thing. Yeah, well who
Speaker 1: are we too? We had a recent guest who was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that movie is just about how like interractional teenage kissing
Speaker 1: like that was at the time. They're like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a lacy, mostly lazy Yes, yes, Carrie Washington's
Speaker 1: debut as the only line is like, yes, stealing black man,
Speaker 1: Like that doesn't seem like a thing a teenage girl,
Speaker 1: all right, Right, So yeah, I'm very new to this movie, Jamie,
Speaker 1: what about you? I had seen this movie at like sleepovers.
Speaker 1: I think I was very very into dance as a kid.
Speaker 1: That was like my thing when I was little, like
Speaker 1: a scholarship to go to dance school, and I really
Speaker 1: was very excited and passionate about it. And then I
Speaker 1: did that thing like when I did it all the
Speaker 1: way through high school. I did all this stuff and
Speaker 1: then like I didn't get my first audition in college
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well I quit and then just never
Speaker 1: did it again. So good for her, but yeah, like, hey,
Speaker 1: the first sign of resistance just quit, probably turn out fine.
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't love this. Yeah, it's just like that
Speaker 1: I like. I don't know, I I really like dance.
Speaker 1: I like dance movies. This was I think probably a
Speaker 1: part of like a double feature at like my cousin
Speaker 1: Chloe's Has. But yeah, I really like this movie. I
Speaker 1: didn't realize I hadn't seen it in like years and
Speaker 1: years and years, and I didn't like when I was little,
Speaker 1: I didn't recognize anyone in it it. But now you're like,
Speaker 1: oh damn, this is like Zoe Seldona's first speech. Yeah
Speaker 1: that's so cool. Yeah. Should I do the recap and
Speaker 1: we'll go from there. Yeah. Wait. The tagline for this
Speaker 1: movie on the poster is life Doesn't Hold Tryouts. Oh
Speaker 1: something about something really some food for thought, something you
Speaker 1: think about. Okay, I'm sure it means something. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to figure out what. Yeah, just like a bunch of dumbasses.
Speaker 1: It's sitting in a circle in a marketing office like
Speaker 1: ballet tryout Life not perfect day. Alright, So the story
Speaker 1: a group of young ballet students. I think they're like eighteen.
Speaker 1: This is like they're going to this academy instead of
Speaker 1: like in lieu of going to like a university. I
Speaker 1: think is I'm asking, are we to believe they're all
Speaker 1: legal adults? That comes into play a few times where
Speaker 1: I'm like, I hope so the actors are, but I
Speaker 1: don't know, right. I think they're like eighteen having just
Speaker 1: graduated from high school. I believe, Um, But they all
Speaker 1: get accepted into They get accepted into a very competitive,
Speaker 1: prestigious ballet school in New York City. Ever heard of it? Uh?
Speaker 1: And it's called a b A the American Ballet Academy,
Speaker 1: which is a fictitious for this movie. Among them are
Speaker 1: Jody Sawyer, Eva Rodriguez that's Zoey's Donna's character, Um, Maureen
Speaker 1: and everyone the girl from Um, the girl from I
Speaker 1: think to hate about. She was obsessed with Shakespeare, her
Speaker 1: seen Queen. She's one of those. She was in like
Speaker 1: three things and then where Um. Well, the thing about
Speaker 1: Maureen is that everyone thinks she's a bitch, but she's
Speaker 1: just dedicated from her severe bang Like, Okay, I get it.
Speaker 1: Her pale hair in contrast to her very dark or
Speaker 1: her pale skin. I don't know what I'm talking about
Speaker 1: she just looks different than everybody. She's given the look
Speaker 1: like like she's the Darth Vader. Yeah, and the three
Speaker 1: of them are roommates. And then we also meet Eric Jones,
Speaker 1: Sergey and Charlie in the three of them are roommates,
Speaker 1: like downstairs in the boy's dorm. I guess my boyfriend.
Speaker 1: I were having so much fun making fun of Sergey.
Speaker 1: Everything Sergey did was funny. He was like, I was drunk.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. So it was like, oh my god, Sey
Speaker 1: was so weird. I imagine he did a hundred reads
Speaker 1: of every line and they all came out. They're like,
Speaker 1: we're going to take it again. He's like, I was drunk. Alright, Prince,
Speaker 1: I guess we don't have another option because most of
Speaker 1: the I was I had to check in the first
Speaker 1: couple of minutes. The majority, I think, really, except for
Speaker 1: Amanda Shoal who plays Jody and so I saw Donna,
Speaker 1: everyone is basically a semi professional dancer or ice skater,
Speaker 1: and that's why everyone acts really weird. Yeah. I was
Speaker 1: strong say, like, you've ever been drunk before? Oh? Yes?
Speaker 1: So then, um, the endgame for these students is to
Speaker 1: get accepted into the American Ballet Company and the director
Speaker 1: of the Academy and the company. Also, I think John
Speaker 1: Ethan Reeves that's Peter Gallagher a k. The Daddy. He
Speaker 1: announces that he will take three women and three men
Speaker 1: at the end of the year and he will decide
Speaker 1: who gets it after this big workshop performance. Then we
Speaker 1: see them start to practice. Jody's form is sloppy. She
Speaker 1: has to work on her turnout. Have I really dunk
Speaker 1: on her in the first half of the movie, if
Speaker 1: there was like that one with OC Daddy where he's
Speaker 1: just like, listen, you can stay, but you you're horrible.
Speaker 1: You're like I'm also wondering, like who led her into
Speaker 1: the school? But right the first time I see her
Speaker 1: day like I could just enroll. Well, there's this thing him.
Speaker 1: During the audition, someone's like her number fifteen, and then
Speaker 1: another person's like, well, she's got really bad feet and
Speaker 1: like her turnout sucks, and the guys like but look
Speaker 1: at her, and I guess it's like, Okay, So there's
Speaker 1: this special thing about her, and it's that she's hot. Right,
Speaker 1: I was just like she's and and there were there
Speaker 1: was another blonde bellerie and I kept yes, I was like,
Speaker 1: oh that's oh no, that's who's the protagonist. Yeah, definitely
Speaker 1: same here, but yeah, she's specially um so. She's she's sloppy,
Speaker 1: she's got work to do. And then there's Eva, who
Speaker 1: is really skilled, but she doesn't like to follow the rules.
Speaker 1: She smokes indoors, she choose bubblegum, she doesn't like the
Speaker 1: dress code, stuff like that, and then she kind of
Speaker 1: reminded me of the Mila Kuna's character in Black Swan
Speaker 1: and not like the other ballerina's black and we can't
Speaker 1: smoke while we're dancing. Dumb. It's a personality in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: Um so. Then and then Maureen, she's like the teacher's
Speaker 1: pet who has like the best technique in this school.
Speaker 1: And there's also Cooper Nielsen. He is a dancer in
Speaker 1: the company, who is I guess also like on TV
Speaker 1: and famous. They say he's like on TV, I don't
Speaker 1: like the famous yan. He's the face he's exactly, and
Speaker 1: everyone's gossiping about him because he had been dating this woman,
Speaker 1: Kathleen Donahue until they broke up and now she's married
Speaker 1: to Jonathan the director. So there's all this drama there.
Speaker 1: Then there's this big gallot at the school and maybe
Speaker 1: Cooper like flirts with Jody, I d K. And then
Speaker 1: there's also a cater waiter who flirts with Maureen and
Speaker 1: then proceeds to stalk her. Uh but but right, you know,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about it um. And then Jody she continues
Speaker 1: to work on her dancing. But then this is when
Speaker 1: she meets with Jonathan and he's like, you're bad at
Speaker 1: this and I'm not kicking you out, but do you
Speaker 1: even belong here? And then Eva is like, screw him,
Speaker 1: Let's go have some fun. And then they go out
Speaker 1: sausa dancing and Jody has a blast and she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I like dancing. That's not ballet at my school, Jodi
Speaker 1: Jody when she's she's not a good salsa dancing. I
Speaker 1: know the movie is supposed to frame it like, wow,
Speaker 1: she's really cutting loose and you're just like, she seems
Speaker 1: so uncomfortable and she's doing a bad job. Right, But
Speaker 1: everyone else take it right? Everyone else great, including Surge,
Speaker 1: really cuts loose. Yeah, there's a woman who's dancing with
Speaker 1: who he is lied to and said that he's in
Speaker 1: the mafia. He was strong, give me a bum. Let's see.
Speaker 1: Then doing this other type of dance inspires Jody to
Speaker 1: take a is this like contemporary dance that she takes
Speaker 1: this class. It's like jazzy, but like not really like
Speaker 1: we're gonna do this whole I don't remember the song now?
Speaker 1: Was it Stevie? Wonder? Was it? Like? For some reason,
Speaker 1: my brain is play, Oh my god, can you imagine
Speaker 1: something in the same name. It's like a higher ground.
Speaker 1: But then it was also another Oh. They were dancing
Speaker 1: to a lot of Mandy Moore early and I love that.
Speaker 1: I just got tingled. I love Mandy and they kissed
Speaker 1: too that Mandy song, I really love that. I want
Speaker 1: to baby with you. I didn't even know that A
Speaker 1: good little Mandy how I'm like blessing she had. She
Speaker 1: really did go shout out to Mandy. Whatever. So she
Speaker 1: takes this contemporary dance class, which Cooper Nielsen is also in,
Speaker 1: and then she's like really good at this type of
Speaker 1: dance and he invites her back to his place. They
Speaker 1: start kissing, they have sex, and then later Charlie asks
Speaker 1: Jody out on a date, but she's like, I'm seeing someone,
Speaker 1: Charlie is I think maybe one one of the other
Speaker 1: really bad dancer actor because I kept forgetting who he was.
Speaker 1: Every time you show up, he's like, Hey, I'm like,
Speaker 1: who's this new character? And then he would always have
Speaker 1: to repeat who he was in the scene. So I
Speaker 1: think the director maybe also knew that he was stuck.
Speaker 1: He's like Charlie from Seattle. You're like, right, yeah, he's
Speaker 1: a good dancer, perhaps not a great actor, amazing dancer.
Speaker 1: He he's in the wide shots and the d he's
Speaker 1: in the wedge. They don't need a body double. We
Speaker 1: can't take that away from this um. And this is
Speaker 1: also when Maureen starts dating Jim, the pre Mid Columbia student,
Speaker 1: the waiter that she met at the gala. I kept
Speaker 1: calling him Mr gobbel Gul. It's all He's like, you
Speaker 1: gotta have some Beazza and then she's like what well,
Speaker 1: And then we also learn around this time that she
Speaker 1: has an eating disorder. Yes, then the casting notice comes
Speaker 1: out for the workshop performance and Jody has been cast
Speaker 1: in the ballet. The cooper is choreographing, but he's kind
Speaker 1: of like blowing her off. She's trying to be like, hey,
Speaker 1: we're dating, right, and he's like, no, we're not. And
Speaker 1: then it seems like maybe he and Kathleen are involved again,
Speaker 1: or like maybe he's just trying to make Kathleen jealous
Speaker 1: by having sex with Jody. Not totally sure. Kathleen really
Speaker 1: couldn't give a ship either way about what Cooper does,
Speaker 1: which I appreciate she remains pretty consistent on. She's just
Speaker 1: like cool, Like he just keeps reaffirming the fact that
Speaker 1: she was right to not stay with him, because he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm dating an eighteen year old now, and she's like awesome, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm on my phone. But it's because I'm trying to
Speaker 1: see if no, Okay, I was confusing the person who
Speaker 1: plays Mariten for the I think it's really Sobiesky who's
Speaker 1: never been kissed, because I'm like, it's always the same
Speaker 1: side kicking. It's like, so what it happened to? Really,
Speaker 1: she's happen also restored, she's good news, she's a lie
Speaker 1: and she's into art. Now Okay, I could have expected
Speaker 1: that my head, but she's painting exactly. And anyway, so
Speaker 1: they everyone starts working on their workshop show, and Charlie
Speaker 1: senses that Jody and Cooper are involved, and then there's
Speaker 1: this big like ballet dick measuring contest between Charlie and
Speaker 1: Cooper where they're like, what if we end the thing
Speaker 1: this way? He's like, well, what if I change I
Speaker 1: did it differently? What if we do that? Okay, well
Speaker 1: I'll try this thing. And he's like, well let's see
Speaker 1: what Look what I can do. And he's like, look
Speaker 1: at what I can do. And then we're like yeah,
Speaker 1: We're like why is this scene five minutes long? And
Speaker 1: then they just jumping around in the dance right, No
Speaker 1: one who's watching knows what's better, right, I have no opinion.
Speaker 1: I'm nine pressive. It looks good to me. Maybe do
Speaker 1: all of that. And then there's like a lot of
Speaker 1: buzz around Cooper's ballet, and then Eric gets injured, so
Speaker 1: Cooper steps into his own choreographed ballet to take Eric's part.
Speaker 1: Cooper is so annoying watching him as an adult, because
Speaker 1: I know and as little like, but like as an
Speaker 1: adult you're like, oh, brother, like he's a lot, I'll
Speaker 1: do it. You're like, okay, it's like your music teacher
Speaker 1: in elementary schools, like, do you want me to play
Speaker 1: the piano company? And we're like, no, just play the
Speaker 1: track like this is our day. Actually we're graduating this grade.
Speaker 1: You don't have to love in a teachers like, this
Speaker 1: is actually about me. Okay, So the ballet that he's
Speaker 1: choreographed is extremely self indulgent, and it's about how stupid
Speaker 1: a b A is and how he doesn't like that
Speaker 1: his girlfriend got stolen away. I was like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is basically marriage story the ballet. Like but but then
Speaker 1: when you see the ballet, it's it exceeds like the
Speaker 1: excess you're expecting by a bajillion percent. Where it's like
Speaker 1: that dance is like twelve minutes long. There's like four
Speaker 1: set pieces motorcycle, oh my god, the votors are her.
Speaker 1: Her hairstyle drastically changes like four different times throughout the
Speaker 1: same show. There's several costume changes on stage. On stage
Speaker 1: somehow there's time to braid her hair for the final act,
Speaker 1: relaces her shoes and the like. There's a thirty second
Speaker 1: did she do this? My favorite part is like when
Speaker 1: the like you're like, is this good? And then they
Speaker 1: keep cutting to the audience. You're like, Okay, this is good.
Speaker 1: This is good. They're all happy with the money they
Speaker 1: spent on this evening, right, But before Cooper's show, we
Speaker 1: have Jonathan's ballet and instead of Maureen and the lead,
Speaker 1: it's Eva because Marine gave her part to her. And
Speaker 1: then Maureen's mom is all like what the fuck and
Speaker 1: Maureen is like she's got the stagiest stage mom. And
Speaker 1: Maureen is just like, I don't even want to be
Speaker 1: a ballet dancer. That's your dream, not mine. I love
Speaker 1: this plot. Anytime someone says that to their parents in
Speaker 1: a movie, and like it's it's become always I can't
Speaker 1: relate with it. But you're just like, well, your parents
Speaker 1: had dreams for you. I was, honestly, it seems like
Speaker 1: they put a lot of time in efforts like yeah,
Speaker 1: my mom didn't have a plan. And she was like, well,
Speaker 1: as long as you're like not you know, homeless in
Speaker 1: like five years, and so like this parenting approach is
Speaker 1: like let's see how this goes, like as long as
Speaker 1: you're paying bills, Like all right, yeah, whatever I want
Speaker 1: to do, take um. So now it's time for Jonathan's
Speaker 1: big decision of like who he's going to accept into
Speaker 1: the company. But then Cooper is like, I'm starting my
Speaker 1: own dance company because this rich woman is Yeah, he
Speaker 1: had sex with um. Yeah, that is the vibe because
Speaker 1: she comes in. It kind of reminds me of the
Speaker 1: like Max Biala stocks old ladies in the Producers, where
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, this is this is an arrangement that
Speaker 1: they have. Everyone's happy with it, but it's an arrangement.
Speaker 1: Um So he's starting his own dance company and he's like, Jody,
Speaker 1: you gotta be in it. And then she's like, hey, Jonathan,
Speaker 1: I'm going off with Cooper and he's like, shrug, I
Speaker 1: don't care. And then yeah, going to invite you into
Speaker 1: my thing anyway. But he does invite um Eva, Eric
Speaker 1: and Charlie to be in the company, and then the
Speaker 1: movie ends with Jody asking Charlie out on a date
Speaker 1: and then they kiss Charlie Charlie from Seattle, and that's
Speaker 1: the end of the movie. So let's take a quick
Speaker 1: break and we'll come back to discuss. And we're back here.
Speaker 1: We are Scamble show cat um. Okay. You know, it's
Speaker 1: like not a good musical when they have to like
Speaker 1: introduce exactly who they are, Like you can't deduce their
Speaker 1: importance by anything about it. Okay, we know this one's
Speaker 1: been standing in the background for seventy seven minutes. But
Speaker 1: this is an actor with the name. I think maybe
Speaker 1: you'll say who it is. I mean another thing that
Speaker 1: this movie shares is woulden acting from dancers. Sure, yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're all the real dancers and cats like made to
Speaker 1: be roaches and a lot of them probably. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's god. It's like, oh, we can't talk about cats
Speaker 1: again talking about centur Stage centur Stage. Okay, Um, let's
Speaker 1: see this movie. It came out in two thousand. Yes, um,
Speaker 1: so I was like, oh, this movie is twenty years old.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be way more problematic than it is. There
Speaker 1: are some issues, but I was like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: actually kind of like it tries to do some stuff
Speaker 1: for two thousand. I think it does better than I expected. Yes, yeah, correct.
Speaker 1: I think like a wink towards progress. Yeah, a glimmer
Speaker 1: of progress showing in. And I think it has at
Speaker 1: least part to do with the writer being a woman,
Speaker 1: Caroline hike in In. It looks like Heineken, but that's
Speaker 1: her name, is not Carol Heineken, It's Carol hike hike In.
Speaker 1: She also wrote Empire Records, which is maybe seen I
Speaker 1: haven't seen, don't know there's a new show version coming
Speaker 1: out with Zoe Kravitz playing reviews. Apparently it's almost the
Speaker 1: exact same text, so there's like no update. We love
Speaker 1: that for her. Just always happy for Zoe Kravitz. Wow,
Speaker 1: but a lot of Zoe energy. Carol loves working with
Speaker 1: Zoe's she's um. And then also the director is a
Speaker 1: queer man, Nicholas Heightner. So the fact that you have
Speaker 1: women and queer people in like the major creative roles
Speaker 1: in this movie I think is at least part of
Speaker 1: why it's maybe not as it avoids some of the
Speaker 1: more obvious trophy stereotypes stuff like that. And h Nicholas
Speaker 1: Heightner is also like like legend theater producer. Um. So
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, he actually understands the world that he's portraying,
Speaker 1: because sometimes I feel like it comes up a little
Speaker 1: uncanny valley. Um. Yeah, yeah, there's I mean there's maybe
Speaker 1: too much authenticity in this movie because they cast so
Speaker 1: many dancers, um, and they dance magnificently. How we see
Speaker 1: a lot of them dancing, We see, yes, the wide shots.
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, that's why they're so bad at acting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: imagine it's like the same people who are in that
Speaker 1: dance class where they're dancing too I want to say,
Speaker 1: higher grounds, where they're like leaping forever, like they all
Speaker 1: get their one moment. I'm like, yeah, like this is
Speaker 1: you know that all of these dancers. Now every holiday
Speaker 1: the family gets together and they're like, pull on that scene.
Speaker 1: Remember when you left across the screen dying ground? Put
Speaker 1: it on again, don't do it? And this movie when
Speaker 1: it came out, I think, like many teen movies in general,
Speaker 1: but especially teen movies back when a movie reviewers really
Speaker 1: really really really were all old white guys, there was
Speaker 1: like no so I didn't get reviewed particularly well because movies,
Speaker 1: for like, I feel like, just in general, movies targeted
Speaker 1: at girls are never super well reviewed, especially before there
Speaker 1: was any manner of diversity and who was reviewing them.
Speaker 1: So this got a fort on the Tomato meter, but
Speaker 1: audience score eight two percent. Baby we Love She caught
Speaker 1: You in Roll? Yeah, honestly, should we start with Jody,
Speaker 1: start with Jodie? With jo Jodie man, I mean like
Speaker 1: her story was going in some cool ways at certain times,
Speaker 1: and then it kind of lost me in the middle.
Speaker 1: What I thought was going to happen because she's kind
Speaker 1: of like she's struggling in this ballet school. She's getting
Speaker 1: kind of dumped on by O. C. Daddy and you're
Speaker 1: like okay. And then she find this the higher ground
Speaker 1: class and she seems to be thriving there, and like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe her storyline will be that she will get into
Speaker 1: a different form of dance. That's what I thought too,
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, that's kind of cool, or
Speaker 1: that she'll like bring what she learns and these like
Speaker 1: contemporary dance classes into her ballet and then people will
Speaker 1: be like, oh, wow, she is really talented. Like yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought it was going somewhere in that direction. I
Speaker 1: was kind of hoping and go there and then and
Speaker 1: then they're just like, no, it's love tangle. Sorry remember Charlie.
Speaker 1: If we're like, no, well he's here, who was Charlie?
Speaker 1: And then what you take away from that class I
Speaker 1: was kind of bummed that what you took away from
Speaker 1: her liking that class us was that she's going to
Speaker 1: hook up with Cooper now instead of like she's going
Speaker 1: to use this style of dance and then she ends
Speaker 1: up working for him. At the end, you're like and
Speaker 1: dating Charlie, right, because you know. What happens is like
Speaker 1: they have sex, and so she's like, oh, we're dating
Speaker 1: now and then but he's blowing her off although she's
Speaker 1: she just like shows up to his thing, and she's
Speaker 1: like showing up places where she wasn't invited. So I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's not that's weird. But like she's being red and
Speaker 1: she's young, but like like he seems like he's being mean,
Speaker 1: but also it's like you're just showing up like that's
Speaker 1: not okay. But then he's like really mean to her
Speaker 1: when they're working on his ballet, and she's like, well,
Speaker 1: what about how I feel? And it's like basically mapping
Speaker 1: their relationship onto like what's happening like in the dance.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's part of things. But she's like, well
Speaker 1: what about what I want? He's like, I don't give
Speaker 1: a ship what you want, stupid idiot. That was very jarring.
Speaker 1: It was like I was like, wow, he says means stuff,
Speaker 1: like like real means stuff. And then we're still like, oh,
Speaker 1: she works for him. I'm like he will do that
Speaker 1: again because then he so she like rushes outside and
Speaker 1: then Charlie runs after her and he's like he should
Speaker 1: be treating you better, and you're like yes, but like,
Speaker 1: who are you? How did you know? I've never met you?
Speaker 1: We met I'm Charlie from Yeah, so he yeah. Like
Speaker 1: he's then set up as like a viable romantic interest
Speaker 1: for her, and then it's the two of them, both
Speaker 1: Charlie and Cooper in the big performance at the end,
Speaker 1: and there's this whole weird thing also where like they're
Speaker 1: playing like tug of war with her at one point,
Speaker 1: like I think Charlie literally throws her through the air
Speaker 1: and then Cooper catches her. So it's this whole like
Speaker 1: she's being treated as an object, a possession, where it's
Speaker 1: like property, yeah, and yeah like it and we're not
Speaker 1: alled to believe that she has an issue with it,
Speaker 1: and like we mostly see I was kind of bummed out,
Speaker 1: and I mean for a number of reasons. But they
Speaker 1: like her and um Eva get along really well and
Speaker 1: they're like but but their friendship is kind of just
Speaker 1: reduced to talking about JODI's romantic problems specifically, like there's
Speaker 1: a few like with there, I mean, and we'll talk
Speaker 1: about Eva at length, but as far as their friendship goes,
Speaker 1: Eva's basically there just to be like, what's your boy problem.
Speaker 1: I'm like, listen, they're talking about dance a little bit.
Speaker 1: But it's like it's yeah, there's there's way more sucks
Speaker 1: for both of those cares. Like there's way more of
Speaker 1: a romantic through line than I felt there needed to be,
Speaker 1: especially because like at the very end, so she she
Speaker 1: performs very well in in the workshop and people are like, wow,
Speaker 1: what a star, and then Cooper's like he owes her
Speaker 1: an apology, but he does not deliver on that. He's
Speaker 1: just like here, be in my thing. And then he
Speaker 1: tries to kiss her and she's like, no, you stuck
Speaker 1: because a boyfriend. I'm gonna's got Charlie on a date.
Speaker 1: And then the kids like yeah on Monday, boss right,
Speaker 1: And it's like you weird, why because like you know,
Speaker 1: movies have to end with a hetero kiss, so it's
Speaker 1: like she and Charlie kiss, But it's like why, Like
Speaker 1: why couldn't it have been more about the dance, more
Speaker 1: about her skills and like her coming into her own
Speaker 1: as a as a performer and a dancer. I have
Speaker 1: a controversial opinion, please, and I think the movie is
Speaker 1: too much about the dance. No one has a life
Speaker 1: or like hobbies outside of dancing, Like the things she
Speaker 1: wants to do to cut loose from dance problem is
Speaker 1: go to a dance class. The one suggestion for her
Speaker 1: to get over and dude, it's like, hey, we're all dancers,
Speaker 1: why don't we go dance? That's a good point, you guys,
Speaker 1: ever do anything else? Has anyone here ever like read
Speaker 1: a book? All right? And then when they go to
Speaker 1: the bar, they're just like, oh, they're so Also, let's
Speaker 1: put these drinks down, and then Sarah is like I
Speaker 1: will drink all of them. Like there's just no one
Speaker 1: has an interior life and only into your life they
Speaker 1: gave anyone was Jody, and I guess also Maureen with
Speaker 1: her mother. But it's all just like I feel like
Speaker 1: Maureen got the most story out of anybody because I
Speaker 1: was like Jody, like you start to learn about her
Speaker 1: and then she's reduced to boys and then and then
Speaker 1: also Jody's parents shop at the end, and you're like, hey,
Speaker 1: now who are these adults? And they also are acting
Speaker 1: like they don't know her. They're like that her mom
Speaker 1: was like a great job. I was like, get along,
Speaker 1: so they try, like I mean Maureen. I feel like
Speaker 1: got the most because like we saw her family life
Speaker 1: and her romantic life, which is like more than but
Speaker 1: it is all related to dancers and dancing where she
Speaker 1: meets like a guy who eats pizza and she's like
Speaker 1: this cat happened? What is this? Yeah? I mean it's
Speaker 1: a very focused movie. I suppose it is definitely very focused. No,
Speaker 1: I agree. I didn't even thought about like all they do.
Speaker 1: Re watching it, I was like, yeah, but like they
Speaker 1: live in New York. This is all they do. They
Speaker 1: go to one club and one dance class and then
Speaker 1: all day dance and then yell about this guy that
Speaker 1: is the dance teacher, like even the men there, It's
Speaker 1: all right. Also, like for a movie that is like
Speaker 1: so many ballet dancers, I felt like there was I mean,
Speaker 1: was there any like LGBTQ representation at all? Are we
Speaker 1: supposed to assume? And no, Serage has a Girlfriendalina um
Speaker 1: but eric O Jones um is I think he's identifiably
Speaker 1: queer because he's like Charlie, who I guess is supposed
Speaker 1: to be attractive. I guess he comes in and like
Speaker 1: Eric was like, who's that You're cute? And then he
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, my girlfriend dumped me, and then like
Speaker 1: Eric is visibly disappointintedly says like my girlfriend in Seattle,
Speaker 1: and we're like, who are But yeah, I think that
Speaker 1: he was clearly stated as a queer character, which kind
Speaker 1: of like bums me out even further of how that
Speaker 1: character is slowly just like edged to the point where
Speaker 1: they're like, let's just break his leg. He's not leaving
Speaker 1: screen fast enough injured, like it's too much. Yeah, Like there.
Speaker 1: It reminded me of that the like thing where I
Speaker 1: think we talked about it in our Pacific rim episode
Speaker 1: where the female protagonist was like launched out of the
Speaker 1: climax to the movie. They just launched her out of
Speaker 1: the ship. They're like, we don't know what to do
Speaker 1: with this character by and like they kind of do
Speaker 1: the same thing to him because they're like, Okay, we
Speaker 1: have to focus on this boring hetero love triangle that
Speaker 1: no one's invested in. Um, let's break our only queer
Speaker 1: characters leg they're only one. It's a ballets, right, And
Speaker 1: And the fact that like you weren't totally sure if
Speaker 1: he was queer or not, I think speaks to the
Speaker 1: fact that we see several different romantic subplots, but Eric
Speaker 1: has not afforded any of them. He doesn't get to like,
Speaker 1: you know, fall in love with a man or anything
Speaker 1: like that. But yeah, well so like there are moments
Speaker 1: when some of the women, like the new batch of
Speaker 1: like boys come in and they're like, oh, are they
Speaker 1: gay or straight? Um, So there's like there's discussion of it.
Speaker 1: And then there's that scene later when Sarage is at
Speaker 1: the uh Sarage, how do you say that I was strong?
Speaker 1: Sarage is at the salsa bar and he's hitting on
Speaker 1: a couple of women and they're like, oh, well, what
Speaker 1: are you doing here? He's like, I'm a ballet dancer
Speaker 1: and they're like, t what a weirdo. And then he
Speaker 1: goes to that other woman and he's like, I'm in
Speaker 1: the mafia. She's so horny for him. She is in
Speaker 1: love with him. The same with like the the older
Speaker 1: female characters in this movie are horny, horny, horny, horny horny.
Speaker 1: Because there's the woman at the salsa club, there's also
Speaker 1: the like contemporary whatever Stevie Wonder, a dance teacher who
Speaker 1: wants to have sex with it. It seems like they've
Speaker 1: already sealed the deal. The five is she's like, Cooper,
Speaker 1: You're so fun, and you're just like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: Like there's a millionaire woman who has sex with Cooper. Also,
Speaker 1: all the older women in this movie have better sex. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they've sucked these young male ballerinas, and and good for them,
Speaker 1: and good for them. It was just a strange thing
Speaker 1: to happen four times. And then but I like them.
Speaker 1: I liked it, Carol. Right. The point is that there's
Speaker 1: not nearly as much like queer visibility your representation as
Speaker 1: you might imagine, but that also could just be for
Speaker 1: the time. I mean, this is two thousand. This is
Speaker 1: the kind of thing where like, I wonder what the
Speaker 1: first draft versus the final draft of this script looks like,
Speaker 1: because yeah, like for it to be an accurate representation,
Speaker 1: you would think that there would be way more queer
Speaker 1: representation and like more explicit. And then I wonder how
Speaker 1: much just two thousand did they used the whole budget
Speaker 1: on that one diversity point. The man, we couldn't do
Speaker 1: that any especially especially because since the director is queer.
Speaker 1: I don't know, this is kind of speculation, but I
Speaker 1: imagine he would have tried to champion for like responsible
Speaker 1: queer visibility against it. But yeah, because it's yeah, it's
Speaker 1: two thousand and we just weren't in the same place. Um.
Speaker 1: Hot take from Caitlin. Let's read wait, hold on two
Speaker 1: thousand different from what Let's take a quick break, another
Speaker 1: quick break, and we'll come right back and we're back.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Zoe Seldonna and her debut role besides
Speaker 1: an episode of Law and Order. Yeah, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: find the clip from it, but luck so. Zoe Seldonna's character, UM,
Speaker 1: I feel like there's there's good things, and there's things
Speaker 1: that a very two thousand right in general, I feel like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I like her character a lot. I remember
Speaker 1: like really loving her character when I was a kid too,
Speaker 1: because she's like the cools where you're like, oh if
Speaker 1: I don't have an entry point for dance, like I
Speaker 1: can relate to being the person who's like, I don't
Speaker 1: give a ship right right, Like, yeah, she she didn't.
Speaker 1: There was no point where she felt like she was
Speaker 1: squandering her opportunity where everyone else was like so worried
Speaker 1: about it. She's like, whatever, I'm gonna smoke and blow
Speaker 1: it into your face right, like, and I like how
Speaker 1: I was kind of worried in the middle of like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I wonder how her storyline is going to end because
Speaker 1: I kind of forgot I just remember that she dances
Speaker 1: at the end, but I was like, I wonder, I
Speaker 1: like that, Like the through line with her character is
Speaker 1: like she is like the only character who's really just
Speaker 1: like straight up passionate about what she's doing and doesn't
Speaker 1: like play the game in the way Maureen does. She
Speaker 1: doesn't do the politics of l a. She just likes
Speaker 1: it and it's good at it and works at it,
Speaker 1: and then she ends up being like rewarded for that.
Speaker 1: She's not punished for like being outspoken, and she ends
Speaker 1: up like getting what she wants because she worked really
Speaker 1: hard and she's passionate about it and she's good at it.
Speaker 1: So I mean she also got what you wanted because
Speaker 1: Maureen was like, I'm gonna die, like he was never
Speaker 1: going to give it to her. So like that, maybe
Speaker 1: there's like an allegory here about like white women like
Speaker 1: having the open doors black women. I kind of noticed, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's definitely a component of that. She was going to
Speaker 1: start her own dance company otherwise and it's like we
Speaker 1: can't we can't even give Maureen too many points because
Speaker 1: she just waited until she was on her deathbed to
Speaker 1: be like fine, Like, but it is good that I'm
Speaker 1: glad she did. I thought that Marine was going to
Speaker 1: get hurt. I didn't know that they were going to
Speaker 1: let her character make a choice, right. Um, So that's
Speaker 1: that's a really good point things happen. I was glad
Speaker 1: that like even ended up getting the company too, because
Speaker 1: there was that in that last second. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: this movie could really go either way on a lot
Speaker 1: of things. They broke our only queer characters, like let's
Speaker 1: see what happens and then she gets it. You're like, thank, Um,
Speaker 1: tell me how you feel about this. Did you feel
Speaker 1: that Eva was kind of written using some like negative
Speaker 1: black stereotypes in terms of like the angry black woman.
Speaker 1: She's often late. Yeah, exactly, she's like the least professional
Speaker 1: person on earth. The last dance, she's combat boots. Basic.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, I think you know what's interesting in
Speaker 1: rewatching it and like also realizing her name was like
Speaker 1: Eva Rodriguez. I thought that they really tried to mash
Speaker 1: up like she's black and Hispanic, but like I felt
Speaker 1: more kind of alarmed by like the rage is being
Speaker 1: like a hot headed Latina because like that's sort of
Speaker 1: like you know, like entry point with like salsa and
Speaker 1: whatever else. Like it just felt like maybe there was
Speaker 1: you know, I'm giving a lot of benefit the down
Speaker 1: right now. Maybe they were in ways trying to make
Speaker 1: a commentary like this is a Latina, like you've never
Speaker 1: seen them, darker than a paper back, but also walking stereos.
Speaker 1: And I think it is interesting that like it's it's
Speaker 1: like an Afro Latina character. And Zoe saw Donna is
Speaker 1: also Dominican and Puerto Rican. I also looked at the
Speaker 1: Wikipedia pitch look. I did not look anything up, So
Speaker 1: thank you for being my research partner. I would say.
Speaker 1: Either way, it felt to me as though some negative
Speaker 1: stereotypes were being drawn on from both like black communities
Speaker 1: and Latin X communities for that character. But and it
Speaker 1: felt like for a large portion of the movie by
Speaker 1: like the ballet Powders of be she was being treated
Speaker 1: like a diversity pick, like like this affirmative action person,
Speaker 1: like you don't deserve to be here. I'm like Jody's feet,
Speaker 1: don't worry, don't tell me that can't be here, So
Speaker 1: that is like, yeah, I think that, like what it
Speaker 1: does seem more like, I mean, look, we saw the movie,
Speaker 1: so watching it, it was like there are moments that
Speaker 1: are stereotypical as a child. I don't know that I
Speaker 1: like bought into it or like realized I was like,
Speaker 1: she's the fun one. But it does seem like maybe
Speaker 1: the directors and writers were like, Okay, well, if we
Speaker 1: have to like give her an edge, because if she's
Speaker 1: just like a silent black person that everyone hated, it
Speaker 1: would be a different movie. So they're like, let's just
Speaker 1: give her this personality so that she's difficult in the
Speaker 1: event that like people think that this is like some
Speaker 1: liberal talking point, which was not a thing that existed,
Speaker 1: snowflakes talking about ballet establishment. But yeah, I think that, like,
Speaker 1: at least they seem like, even in hindsight, aware of
Speaker 1: the fact that like, Okay, she is up against a lot,
Speaker 1: so even with her weird writing about her personality quirks, like,
Speaker 1: we at least back it up with by saying like, well,
Speaker 1: she's a good dancer and and she deserves to be there,
Speaker 1: So being the black one isn't the only reason why
Speaker 1: she's having problems right right. I wish I almost wish that,
Speaker 1: like if they were going to give her those like
Speaker 1: aeotypical kind of stock personality traits, I feel like they
Speaker 1: sort of skim the surface of trying to explore them.
Speaker 1: But then she's just not given as much screen time
Speaker 1: as she needs to be given to have that explored,
Speaker 1: because you get that like one seeing them like, oh
Speaker 1: this is something where the dance teacher who's not OC daddy,
Speaker 1: Um fine, yeah, I mean lady, mean lady who's been
Speaker 1: mean to Eva a bunch of different times, finds her
Speaker 1: rehearsing late at night, and I think like realizes like, oh,
Speaker 1: she really is passionate about this, and then offers her
Speaker 1: like oh can I help you? You're like okay, this
Speaker 1: what well, and then it just kind of is dropped
Speaker 1: there and you don't really get to see like where
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, good, You're the teacher should believe in
Speaker 1: her student the whole time she's two thirds in. I
Speaker 1: don't know, like I wish that there was a little
Speaker 1: more or that we like learned anything about her outside
Speaker 1: of her relationship with the school, which is something we
Speaker 1: come up with movies. In this era, especially all the
Speaker 1: time where it's like one of the only non white
Speaker 1: characters that we see. There's just a total absence of
Speaker 1: any background information. Like I always think of the Craft
Speaker 1: as craft um as who's who's the actor in the Craft?
Speaker 1: What is the Craft episodes from a long time ago? Um?
Speaker 1: Is it Rachel True? I couldn't confirm, nor did I.
Speaker 1: I don't know either way, Like certainly could have been
Speaker 1: let's not rule her out. She give me the craft Yemmy,
Speaker 1: But but yeah, we we don't really get to find
Speaker 1: out anything about her, which sucks and it's kind of
Speaker 1: like a wasted opportunity. The other big thing about her
Speaker 1: character is that she hates Marie. There's like some woman
Speaker 1: on woman hatred for what feels like kind of no reason.
Speaker 1: She's just like I heard Maureen's a bitch and she
Speaker 1: told me I can't smoke in my dorm room. So
Speaker 1: her I interpreted that as kind of like a coded
Speaker 1: class thing, where Mareen very much like a little nepotism
Speaker 1: me brady kind of girl, and then Eva is kind
Speaker 1: of coded as like someone who doesn't come from a
Speaker 1: ton of money and doesn't have this like overbearing parent
Speaker 1: constantly like at this home. I remember thinking about it
Speaker 1: as a kid too of just like, oh, like rich girl,
Speaker 1: not rich girl. And I feel like girls, like people
Speaker 1: in general, but especially women, are like pitted against each
Speaker 1: other in that regard a bunch um. And then Jody
Speaker 1: is like, who knows what's going on with her? She's
Speaker 1: friends with everybody, which she don't have feet amazing because
Speaker 1: like you know, the Bechtel test is about conversation, so
Speaker 1: like you know, but it's like, why does no one
Speaker 1: have like the real conversation. It's all passive aggressively. You
Speaker 1: also can't smoke, and she's just like I don't like her,
Speaker 1: instead of like I need to smoke indoors, Like why
Speaker 1: are you not defending? You can't feel like she's a
Speaker 1: bitch if you know what's wrong. It's just such a
Speaker 1: weird scene. That's one of the only times I could
Speaker 1: relate with Jody, because I'm like, if I was a
Speaker 1: teenager someone was smoking inside and someone else was like,
Speaker 1: you can't smoke inside, I'm like I would say nothing.
Speaker 1: I would just be like, let's see where this goes,
Speaker 1: Like I mean, what's wrong with smoking outside? I'm not
Speaker 1: saying she's right, right, you know, for once, I like,
Speaker 1: I liked that evaes that hill to die on right away,
Speaker 1: and she's like, oh, I can't smoke in the dorms. Fine,
Speaker 1: what kind of school is this? And like any other school,
Speaker 1: And then the camera rests on Maureen as if we're
Speaker 1: supposed to be like, how unreasonable. Yeah, breathe the second
Speaker 1: hand smoke. Jeez. But yeah, that that's set up between
Speaker 1: the two of them of just being this like antagonst Well,
Speaker 1: it's more that Eva hates Maureen. Maureen's just like kind
Speaker 1: of there and she mostly actually seems to be kind
Speaker 1: of nice. Maybe she likes the rules a bit too much,
Speaker 1: but like whatever. But what I like, what I do
Speaker 1: appreciate about this story, Oline, is the resolution is that
Speaker 1: Maureen lifts up Eva by being like, Hey, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: too sick to perform and I don't like to dance.
Speaker 1: I want to hang out with my pizza boyfriend. He's
Speaker 1: almost done at his catering shift, and I'm excited he's
Speaker 1: going to bring home some left Um. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: was the whole time he was like this is me,
Speaker 1: this is me, Like, you're not pizza boyfriend. He's like,
Speaker 1: I'm pizza and then there's also like plenty of female
Speaker 1: friendship in the story as well, so it's not as
Speaker 1: though like there's only one female relationship and it's antagonistic.
Speaker 1: There's there's plenty of others. But still I think that
Speaker 1: there are a lot of missed opportunities in this movie.
Speaker 1: For like, the only two times we really see like
Speaker 1: female characters like helping or like really showing friendship or
Speaker 1: kindness to another is when Maureen drops out and gives
Speaker 1: the opportunity to Eva, who deserves it, and then all
Speaker 1: so kind of with Eva in the Dance Teacher. But
Speaker 1: for a lot of moments where you're like, oh, this
Speaker 1: would be a really great opportunity for the like female
Speaker 1: dancers or really just the dancers to support each other,
Speaker 1: it just becomes a Jodi love thing where there's like
Speaker 1: two different boyfriends. Pizza boyfriend quote unquote rescues Maureen and
Speaker 1: helps her see the light of the fact that she
Speaker 1: doesn't love dance. Like she doesn't really get to take
Speaker 1: the credit of figuring that out on her own. It's
Speaker 1: pizza boyfriends. It comes in from nowhere. Like the first
Speaker 1: person who offered her food, she was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm done with this was like wait a second, like
Speaker 1: that is not God. I wish we were that easy.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, sort of to that point though, I think
Speaker 1: that what something that stood out to me and rewatching
Speaker 1: it is all of the nice things that characters do
Speaker 1: to show friendship or like you know, compassion or giving
Speaker 1: something up ends up being self serving in some way.
Speaker 1: Like Maureen doesn't want to dance. It's not like she's
Speaker 1: doing this and she's like, well, I throw away my
Speaker 1: opportunity and now I have to regret it. She's like
Speaker 1: this is good for me, and like it's good for you,
Speaker 1: but it's better for me. I felt the same way
Speaker 1: about like I mean, this is Cooper being like you
Speaker 1: can come dance with me, and I'm like, well, that's
Speaker 1: because now everybody knows who she isn't likes her like
Speaker 1: you weren't gonna do if this had gone another way,
Speaker 1: like if if you know, if Zoe sel Donna went
Speaker 1: out there and crushed it and then she went out
Speaker 1: there and fell down in her weird red outfit when
Speaker 1: they did the long cot, like he would have been like, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe I'm going to go back to working for Sandy Cohen,
Speaker 1: like you can, good luck with your bad feet, like
Speaker 1: we're not sucking anymore. And it's especially sinister with like,
Speaker 1: if Maureen didn't want to quit dance, she would have
Speaker 1: never been like he se, Donna, let me lift you
Speaker 1: up and give you an opportunity like that. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: just wouldn't have happened. Yeah, it's not within her character.
Speaker 1: I mean, none of the characters seemed to like actually
Speaker 1: want to do good things unless they're like, it's actually
Speaker 1: a scapegoated excuse for me to stop right, I hate
Speaker 1: my life, You take my life now, and they're like,
Speaker 1: thank you. Cool, I actually wanted your life. This works
Speaker 1: out great for me as well. Now I don't like
Speaker 1: smoking doors, just like Freaky Friday paid each other. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good point. I like, And there were those
Speaker 1: opportunities were there for them too, and I'm sure it
Speaker 1: would have helped the storyline to to like have the
Speaker 1: characters interacting more. Um, but I think sometimes they kind
Speaker 1: of just like and I wonder how much is like
Speaker 1: I want to give Carol the benefit of the doubt
Speaker 1: and be like, maybe it with studio nuts where they're like,
Speaker 1: does add in some love story here that would fit
Speaker 1: better than building out friendships? Um, or like moments that
Speaker 1: we could include Eric in the plot at all. I
Speaker 1: liked that also with Eric's character because like he was
Speaker 1: also one of the only dancers whose performance was like palatable.
Speaker 1: He could act because he's an actor and not a dancer.
Speaker 1: He had he had no previous dance that he later
Speaker 1: toured um in the high school musical touring company. And
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I think he might have, like
Speaker 1: he probably trained in ballet for prior to this role,
Speaker 1: but like before getting cast, I don't think he had
Speaker 1: really any dance because where do we get so much
Speaker 1: circuy like it, It's like the studio was like this
Speaker 1: guy's on fire every line I was, he says. If
Speaker 1: anyone wants to go back and watch the scene where
Speaker 1: he says I was drunk, it's when they're punished by
Speaker 1: having to squeegee in the punishment because they missed curfew.
Speaker 1: Is that what it is? Like? There's a they were
Speaker 1: they showed him. They were all laughing and they were
Speaker 1: like that was crazy because he was dancing so long.
Speaker 1: Now I can't dance today, say was the only one
Speaker 1: who was actually drunk. Everyone else was just dancing. Man,
Speaker 1: this dance hangovers because and then like they're all they're
Speaker 1: like having fun. They're like throwing all the sponges in
Speaker 1: each other. And then like Maureen like peeks into the
Speaker 1: him and she's like, oh, that must be what having
Speaker 1: friends is like, because everyone hates her because he thinks
Speaker 1: she's a bit boyfriends outside. Can we talk about Maureen? Yes,
Speaker 1: there's a lot going on with her. Said again, it's
Speaker 1: like every character in this movie, you're like, I like
Speaker 1: some things and then other things they kind of lose
Speaker 1: the thread. To me, the big conversation here is, uh,
Speaker 1: the examination of eating disorders. So it all kind of
Speaker 1: starts out by Maureen fat shaming her friend Emily, who
Speaker 1: is also rocketed out of the narrative, and that that
Speaker 1: feels that that was frustrating because I think it's Emily
Speaker 1: is the character's name. She is written as the ballerina
Speaker 1: who eats like a normal person. Like every scene she's
Speaker 1: in there like we wouldn't remind you that she eats
Speaker 1: because he's eating right now, and like that's different than
Speaker 1: everyone else who doesn't do that, And they like take
Speaker 1: great pains to point out that she's eating and that
Speaker 1: it bothers the other girls because to a normal viewer,
Speaker 1: they'd be like, oh, she's out of function, makes sense.
Speaker 1: But there there's a few moments, especially when she's around Maureen,
Speaker 1: where Marien is clearly like borderline triggered by the sight
Speaker 1: of another dancer eating anything, which isn't like abnormal for
Speaker 1: that world. But it's a little bit off. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the thing is. I mean, you both know more about
Speaker 1: dancing than the I thank you, But I have heard
Speaker 1: on the streets that if you know, if you're participating
Speaker 1: in ballet on like a serious level, there is an
Speaker 1: expectation that you're going to be thin, that you have
Speaker 1: to be in like have like a very rigid standard
Speaker 1: of kind of beauty and body size and shape. Eating
Speaker 1: disorders are like extremely prevalent. So I appreciate that this
Speaker 1: movie kind of attempted to tackle it, but I don't
Speaker 1: think it really went as far as it should have gone,
Speaker 1: or did everything totally right, because one example is when
Speaker 1: Emily has finally been kicked out for having gained too
Speaker 1: much weight, someone's comments on her being fat, and her
Speaker 1: mom says, um, you're not fat, you're beautiful, which it's
Speaker 1: the idea that you cannot be both, which is not
Speaker 1: true as we know it's trying and it's failing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's also though, like with Maureen's character it, I think
Speaker 1: the juxtaposition for like a young viewer of watching her
Speaker 1: be lifted up as the best of the best, like
Speaker 1: this is who everyone wants to be, She's getting everything,
Speaker 1: and she is the sickest person in the film. I
Speaker 1: think that it, like like in spite of itself, is
Speaker 1: sending a different message. Like I remember watching it as
Speaker 1: a kid and being like, well, she's skinny, and this
Speaker 1: guy likes her so much he's buying her pizza. Like
Speaker 1: I didn't have a concept like even when you know
Speaker 1: they do finally have a or she's coming out of
Speaker 1: the bathroom because she's making herself sick. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't even think I realized as a child that's what
Speaker 1: was happening. I just knew like maybe she has like
Speaker 1: a disease because she's like like her eyes are like
Speaker 1: blue underneath she's very thin. But I didn't I didn't
Speaker 1: get that like that was her dedication and like that's
Speaker 1: in her mind, like that was the way to be
Speaker 1: quote unquote perfect. I just saw like she has everything,
Speaker 1: but she's not happy because she has to like she
Speaker 1: doesn't get friends. I didn't think, like because she doesn't
Speaker 1: take care of herself, and so it seems like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like as close as they got to getting it right,
Speaker 1: there was always that moment of just like, well, can
Speaker 1: anyone like everyone who has power is rewarding this behavior,
Speaker 1: right am? I Like my thing with it was that
Speaker 1: I think that, yeah, like the movie should have been
Speaker 1: more explicit about like this not only is not a
Speaker 1: way to treat yourself, but there are negative consequences. And
Speaker 1: I would have loved to see her like at least
Speaker 1: it be alluded to the fact that she's going to
Speaker 1: get some sort of treatment for it. Yeah, like a
Speaker 1: doctor tell her that something wrong, versus like her boyfriend.
Speaker 1: And I decided, right, He's like, I'm not a doctor yet.
Speaker 1: I'm in my first year of pre med and You're like,
Speaker 1: I'm a freshman in college books. It's a bar. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I I like, I don't, I don't know. I've like
Speaker 1: I've I've had like eating disorder issues since I was
Speaker 1: like little, and so I like, I remember when I
Speaker 1: saw this movie, I knew what she was doing, and
Speaker 1: there is some element and it's like to the point
Speaker 1: where I'm like I don't even know what the solution
Speaker 1: to this is, but there is some element of like
Speaker 1: trying to address a serious issue in a movie directed
Speaker 1: at young people and then accidentally showing young people how
Speaker 1: to hear something you can do, because I like, I
Speaker 1: remember that, like I learned eating disorders from TV and
Speaker 1: then emulated them until like yesterday, right, and then on
Speaker 1: top of that, it's and then I think that like
Speaker 1: I had similar like not things that I ever did,
Speaker 1: but like, I think the like concept of cutting was
Speaker 1: something I first saw on TV and a very well
Speaker 1: intentioned episode of Degrassi, but I, like I didn't know
Speaker 1: what that was before, and then after that you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: here's a character that I like doing this very harmful thing,
Speaker 1: and the and the narrative is framing it as bad.
Speaker 1: But still sometimes when you're really younger, like I want
Speaker 1: to be like that character, and so I do appreciate.
Speaker 1: I feel like, in a ballet story about young girls
Speaker 1: being pressured to be like quote unquote great at this thing,
Speaker 1: it would be weird to not touch on eating issues
Speaker 1: at all, in the same way that it's weird that
Speaker 1: they don't touch on queer issues. Yeah, I also think,
Speaker 1: like to that point, Um, what's the guy who broke
Speaker 1: his eric? Like if she had broken her leg because
Speaker 1: she hasn't had proper nutrition for years, that would maybe
Speaker 1: have sent a message to me like oh, it's killing
Speaker 1: her versus like she's going to go on and be
Speaker 1: totally fine. She's just gonna go to law school. Like
Speaker 1: that's sort of hardly yeah, Like there's nothing that she
Speaker 1: has to unlearn, and like there's no growth point. It's
Speaker 1: just like, well, I had one conversation and I decided
Speaker 1: I don't do that anymore or dance, and I'm like right,
Speaker 1: And it was like it was her boyfriend who pointed
Speaker 1: it out to her, and it was like the second
Speaker 1: hand embarrassment of her boyfriend knowing that she was doing
Speaker 1: it that really seemed to sort of push it over
Speaker 1: the I don't know, like I appreciate that this movie
Speaker 1: tried to do something, and like I think probably the
Speaker 1: best way to. I mean, because it's the institution of
Speaker 1: ballet and things like Hollywood and any other sort of
Speaker 1: like institution that pressures people to have their bodies be
Speaker 1: a certain way. That's the thing that's harmful and that's
Speaker 1: what needs to be like commented on and challenged and
Speaker 1: like addressed in these movies, but the movie doesn't really
Speaker 1: It's not like, well it's ballot. It's the school that's
Speaker 1: making me do this, and that's why I feel so
Speaker 1: much pressure. It's I think that's maybe suggested that, but
Speaker 1: I don't think it goes all the way to like
Speaker 1: challenge it enough. And I think, like, you know, it
Speaker 1: is a movie with a bunch of young, thin people,
Speaker 1: and so like I just felt like what was more
Speaker 1: glaring to me as a child was the fact that
Speaker 1: she was lonely and like had isolated herself, not so
Speaker 1: much that like everyone else wasn't also at like a
Speaker 1: very low weight doing this this work. And so I
Speaker 1: think that like it's almost like none of those people
Speaker 1: called it, none of them cared, No one was like
Speaker 1: Emily deserves to stay like they were all just like, well, okay,
Speaker 1: one last person to compete against in this dance school.
Speaker 1: And I think that like maybe it just feels like
Speaker 1: because there's only one character that's dealing with it, it
Speaker 1: felt too reduced because I'm like everyone here is affected
Speaker 1: in ways by the idea of what they're supposed to
Speaker 1: look like on stage, especially because like some of them
Speaker 1: get Like Jody is told she doesn't have the ideal
Speaker 1: body type she had, you know, and she's like, I
Speaker 1: shouldn't eat cookies. I'm already in enough trouble with my body.
Speaker 1: So like they're all in Emily constantly being like, you
Speaker 1: need to see your nutritionists. You're too you've gained too
Speaker 1: much weight to So they're all being told it, but
Speaker 1: it seems like, yeah, Marine is the only one who
Speaker 1: is who has developed an eating disorder based on it.
Speaker 1: But this could be I think you're totally right at
Speaker 1: Killer where it's like this could have been a conversation
Speaker 1: between everyone that could have like bonded them a little
Speaker 1: more strongly, and they're like one of the things with
Speaker 1: Maureen's character that I wish you'd gotten to see was like,
Speaker 1: what was that conversation at length between like Eva and Maureen,
Speaker 1: Like of like when Maureen is like does she share?
Speaker 1: Why does she just say get out there, go get them?
Speaker 1: Like that? That could be a really interesting thing that
Speaker 1: I mean, Eva and anyone at that school, like you're saying,
Speaker 1: like could relate with the pressure, and maybe they don't
Speaker 1: like go full bolimic, but but everyone can relate with
Speaker 1: like withholding food and and all that, and like that's
Speaker 1: something that they could have talked about, especially if we
Speaker 1: saw them be like, oh, all of our like instructors
Speaker 1: are telling us, oh, we need to like watch what
Speaker 1: we eat and go to the nutritionis and if they
Speaker 1: like kind of together rose up against that as a group,
Speaker 1: be like no, like we need to be healthy, we
Speaker 1: are athletes, Like we need to take care of our bodies.
Speaker 1: We cannot be started. I went to a ballet last
Speaker 1: year and I was like, oh my god, this is
Speaker 1: the way no one's fighting back against those standards. The
Speaker 1: way that movie would end would be like and we're
Speaker 1: all going to law school, but it would be fun.
Speaker 1: Another thing about Maureen is she's the only one that
Speaker 1: we get to see interact with a parent. This again,
Speaker 1: there's like there's ups and dances. Her mom is written
Speaker 1: pretty egregiously. I feel like there's like she is like
Speaker 1: stage mom. The moment between them that I found so
Speaker 1: so basically Marin's mom is very hard on her. It's
Speaker 1: her dream, not marines um. And so she's she's a
Speaker 1: dance mom. She's literally a dance mom. And the one
Speaker 1: moment that between them that I found really heartbreaking was
Speaker 1: when Maureen was trying to push she was trying to
Speaker 1: tell that weird joke that never made sense to her.
Speaker 1: My gosh, the elephant the mouse rape joke was that.
Speaker 1: I was just like, no idea what she's trying to say.
Speaker 1: But she was trying to like have a little fun
Speaker 1: with her mom, and her mom blamed Maureen acting differently
Speaker 1: like Marian was trying to tell her mom, I haven't
Speaker 1: eating disorder, I'm not healthy, and her mom was like,
Speaker 1: pizza boyfriends ruining your wife. I was like, Mom, you dumbass. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that that that part, you're just like, oh, that sucks.
Speaker 1: Like she's trying to be open with her mom and
Speaker 1: her mom's just like not receiving it. That like that
Speaker 1: I thought was like well written, but for the most part,
Speaker 1: you're like, I don't know how how do you all
Speaker 1: feel about it? Okay? One thing on Maureen, I do
Speaker 1: think she has the best line in the film. But
Speaker 1: she says, I'm the best goddamn dancer in whatever company.
Speaker 1: Who the hell are you? I think about it all
Speaker 1: the time all the time. She says nobody. He's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm getting out of here. Like she really changed her
Speaker 1: voice for that pizza boyfriend found like demolish. I also
Speaker 1: just feel like that subplot between Maureen and I guess
Speaker 1: his name is Jim the cater writer could have been
Speaker 1: that subplot could have been written out of the movie.
Speaker 1: Nothing really would have changed, and I think that screen
Speaker 1: time could have then been dedicated to if there are
Speaker 1: going to be romantic subplots, give it to Eric, especially
Speaker 1: because Jim is like he stalks her. He relentlessly calls
Speaker 1: her when he finds out. So he finds out her
Speaker 1: name and where she goes to school, so then he
Speaker 1: starts calling like the administration building, and also the fact
Speaker 1: that they would even like say anything, right, and then
Speaker 1: he just shows up. She walks outside one day and
Speaker 1: he's just like waiting there for her, and he's like,
Speaker 1: give here's my phone number, and she's like, okay, I
Speaker 1: guess we're dating now. In Jim's defense, though this was
Speaker 1: two thousand people did not have cell phones. It's true,
Speaker 1: there's no social media. True they had a real connection.
Speaker 1: How was he ever got to see her again? He
Speaker 1: knew one d too. I was. I was annoyed at
Speaker 1: Emily and then I'm like, Emily, why did you give
Speaker 1: Jim her last name could have prevented Pizza boyfriend. That's
Speaker 1: why no one wants you around either. I also, I
Speaker 1: mean so that I feel like he that was a
Speaker 1: pretty like cut and dry, predatory romance, like we've seen
Speaker 1: this a ba jillion times, especially in this era. But
Speaker 1: they also like it felt like a weird thing that
Speaker 1: he was made out to be like a working class guy.
Speaker 1: And then they kind of backtrack on that later they're like, well,
Speaker 1: he's a medical student, so don't worry. He's still like
Speaker 1: a quote unquote good option for marine. I think there's
Speaker 1: like a little bit of like classy stuff because I
Speaker 1: thought he was going to be her gobbel gouel boyfriend
Speaker 1: who like brought her out bowling. And you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's like a working class character in this movie that's
Speaker 1: like not really full of character. He's the jack of
Speaker 1: her rose to it. He's not you and McGregor in
Speaker 1: Mulan Route. Why wouldn't you choose Why wouldn't you choose
Speaker 1: the Maharaja? That's the question I asked myself that every day.
Speaker 1: That's real love. You know another movie that I would
Speaker 1: love to talk about anything We already covered it, but
Speaker 1: we'll do it again. Honestly, we're just gonna have to
Speaker 1: start doing like the best of favorite movies again. Uh So, Marian,
Speaker 1: I mean I think a lot. I mean, like many characters,
Speaker 1: it's like they start to address they start an interesting
Speaker 1: conversation and for whatever reason, either they chose not to
Speaker 1: or like for production reasons, we're not able to follow
Speaker 1: through on the kind of thing. But I mean, again,
Speaker 1: like toxic stage parents are so prevalent in ballet that
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, this makes sense that this is at
Speaker 1: least they're trying to and it's melodramatic become of this movie,
Speaker 1: home movie is whatever. At the end, she's like, I
Speaker 1: have I have a pizza boyfriend now and that's my future.
Speaker 1: Her does he give her pizza? I forget why he
Speaker 1: why pizza is a thing he gives her on their date.
Speaker 1: She that's the first she has a tip of pizza.
Speaker 1: And then he's like, babe, you're like classic pizza boy friends,
Speaker 1: eat it better, eat it the way you're supposed to
Speaker 1: eat pizza. Come on, act like you've had pizza your
Speaker 1: parison like that. That's that whole scene. Who else is
Speaker 1: there is there any I think? Well, I we we
Speaker 1: sort of touched on this during Jody's section. She's just
Speaker 1: such a boring protagonist that it's hard to want to
Speaker 1: talk about her. Yes, sorry, Jody's not perhaps interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But with Cooper, I was like, was he did you
Speaker 1: find that he was being? What was there? Like? So
Speaker 1: are they she's a student and he's in the company.
Speaker 1: Is that like in terms of predatory? I couldn't really
Speaker 1: suss out because at first I'm like, is she like sixteen?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, I guess she's eighteen, Like I
Speaker 1: think they're all supposed to be adults. You're right, it
Speaker 1: is predatory, and I think that it's the way they
Speaker 1: tried to write around that is like, well, he's not
Speaker 1: like he doesn't have a lot of power in the company,
Speaker 1: like he has to start his own because like no
Speaker 1: one respects him. So it's not like she's sucking someone
Speaker 1: didn't give him something, give her something. He's just like
Speaker 1: a guy that happens to be older and like weirdly
Speaker 1: wanting to hang out and how much older we don't
Speaker 1: know the after It was twenty five when it was filmed,
Speaker 1: so I'm like, okay, that's less agreed justus than I
Speaker 1: thought it was going to be, but it was. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I guess we could just be like enough
Speaker 1: to start your own ballet company with funding business owner.
Speaker 1: He might. I mean, let's say, to make to make
Speaker 1: me myself feel better, let's say he was only in
Speaker 1: the academy for one year prior to that, and he
Speaker 1: made the companies and now this is his so maybe
Speaker 1: he's nineteen or twenty. But then they're also like, he
Speaker 1: went off to London for a while and fucked everyone
Speaker 1: who lived in his way through and came back. They
Speaker 1: also really like glaze over the fact. They're like, oh,
Speaker 1: he also has a serious drinking problem. He also won't
Speaker 1: stop harrap sink his ex. They wanted to say thing
Speaker 1: really quickly about his ex Kathleen, who I wish was
Speaker 1: in the movie more because she just didn't have time
Speaker 1: for anyone in this movie. Every time she's on screen,
Speaker 1: she's like whatever, like and then she's like, I'm married
Speaker 1: to O C Daddy, I'm happy. But they talk kind
Speaker 1: of cruelly about her at one point where she walks
Speaker 1: past the younger girls at the beginning and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's Kathleen, Like she's in the company blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: and then they're talking about like, oh, well, she married
Speaker 1: oc daddy, and they're kind of making it seem like
Speaker 1: she's like she's the one trying to get ahead and yeah,
Speaker 1: like she's like not gold digging, but yeah, like just
Speaker 1: trying to secure her place in this company. And that
Speaker 1: is one thing that kind of goes unchallenged, and they
Speaker 1: kind of are critical of her for that, but then
Speaker 1: we see she's really good. It's not like she's horrible
Speaker 1: and doesn't deserve to be there. And then kind of
Speaker 1: the same thing with Jody that I felt like weird
Speaker 1: that it's written this way where Cooper only invites her
Speaker 1: to dance for him after they've slept together, which she
Speaker 1: doesn't really seem to care about, and she kind of
Speaker 1: flaunts that in front. I mean, even the dance is
Speaker 1: that there's a bed on the stage dance. They're like,
Speaker 1: why don't we go through everything that happened in the
Speaker 1: two weeks we've known each other right here in a dance.
Speaker 1: Like it's kind of like Mulan Rouge again, because it's
Speaker 1: like the play Inmory is what's happening in the narrative
Speaker 1: of the movie. Um, well, that's the thing, Jamie. It's like, um,
Speaker 1: for such a long time, and even to some extent today,
Speaker 1: if a woman accomplishes anything, so many people are going
Speaker 1: to be like, well, who did she fuck to get
Speaker 1: that thing? And this movie just confirms it and they're
Speaker 1: just like, well, we know who these two women fucked.
Speaker 1: They're they're pretty good. And you're just like, I don't
Speaker 1: like this precedent there or yeah, it was just written
Speaker 1: a little bit weird. Also, it is funny to picture
Speaker 1: what that whole fifteen minute dance would have been like
Speaker 1: at the end if Eric did it like that was
Speaker 1: just supposed to be Eric. That was just supposed to be.
Speaker 1: Halfway through that he's like, wait is this about that time?
Speaker 1: He fuck to hold on. I'm just now getting it.
Speaker 1: I don't have a bed frame about but it was
Speaker 1: just yeah. So so that like, um, just like women's
Speaker 1: careers being I mean, and there is I forget, Oh
Speaker 1: I've read something like not too long ago that was
Speaker 1: It was just an argument that sometimes modern feminists come
Speaker 1: down on that story point a little hard, because there
Speaker 1: were times in history where securing I think it was
Speaker 1: like something about little women were like securing uh, powerful,
Speaker 1: A man in power was the only way to ensure
Speaker 1: your own survival. But it's two thousand in this movie,
Speaker 1: so I'm pretty sure some other options I'm every Woman
Speaker 1: had come out likes, and we see that they're both
Speaker 1: talented enough to not need that, so it's weird that
Speaker 1: the movie doubles down on them needing that on top
Speaker 1: of being capable. I don't know. There's also that means
Speaker 1: there's two different love triangles happening, because there's one between Jody,
Speaker 1: Charlie and Cooper, and there's one between Cooper Mr. O
Speaker 1: C Daddy and then Kathleen. I mean, but is it
Speaker 1: if Kathleen and O C Daddy are both like get
Speaker 1: away from us? Yeah? Yeah, Cooper is just trying to
Speaker 1: insert himself into it and yes, but it's weird. And
Speaker 1: then like the Kathleen character is just treated again, is
Speaker 1: like the object that just keeps getting like tug award
Speaker 1: back and forth. Um, but she I kind of I
Speaker 1: guess that's why I like Kathleen because like people are
Speaker 1: trying to do exactly what they're doing to Jody, which
Speaker 1: just like Yank yank, and Kathleen's sort of like not
Speaker 1: having it, like she there are moments where she's like, Cooper,
Speaker 1: you're being annoying, Like your girlfriend's eighteen, cool but whatever.
Speaker 1: But it's like she she is like unwilling to engage
Speaker 1: it in a way that and it's like I don't
Speaker 1: blame Jodie because she's a fictional character and she's very young.
Speaker 1: And that's another way that you're like, oh, he is
Speaker 1: like Cooper is very emotionally manipul if where like yell
Speaker 1: at her during rehearsal. He's her boss, but he's her boyfriend.
Speaker 1: And there's an eight like the difference for I mean
Speaker 1: not for everybody, but like if I was eighteen and
Speaker 1: dating someone in their mid twenties, I would be so
Speaker 1: out of my fucking depth. I wouldn't have known what
Speaker 1: to do. And so like there's that like it's just
Speaker 1: a it's just a weird setup they give us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's also like that I think that all of her
Speaker 1: interior life with these relationships, I think it does a
Speaker 1: disservice to the point of this being a dance movie,
Speaker 1: because like she is consistently criticized for her like skills
Speaker 1: and abilities, but she's always fine and everything she does
Speaker 1: is dancing and she's like normally fine. Like the dance class,
Speaker 1: no one was like keep up ballet girl, like she
Speaker 1: was great and as we were made to believe she
Speaker 1: was great. And so it's like, wait, so is her
Speaker 1: challenge dance? Because like, even if people are saying you suck,
Speaker 1: you suck, you suck every day about her body and
Speaker 1: her turnout and whatever, that has never been a hindrance
Speaker 1: the finding success. So they're like, well, I guess my
Speaker 1: only problem then is that I'm boning the sky. Right,
Speaker 1: They're like, I'm not going to engage in the smoking discourse,
Speaker 1: So that's not even a problem. But she doesn't have problems.
Speaker 1: She creates her own very sticking around with these terrible dudes.
Speaker 1: We're used to seeing white male mediocrity, so this time
Speaker 1: we're seeing white female pretty far. We're thinking, we gotta
Speaker 1: wrap up, right, we gotta were Okay, umy gang, Does
Speaker 1: this movie pass the Bechtel tests? Certainly? Yeah. We're talking
Speaker 1: about cigarettes. Yeah, we're talking ballet. We're talking about turnout, food,
Speaker 1: We're talking about we're talking about is your dreams not mine?
Speaker 1: We're talking about a lot of characters, a lot of combinations.
Speaker 1: Definitely talking about passing sky just scared stuff. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's there. They're women are talking about all sorts of
Speaker 1: things there. There is a larger romantic presence, but that
Speaker 1: doesn't get in a way of a pass in the test. True.
Speaker 1: All right, let's rate it on our nipple scale. Zero
Speaker 1: to five nipples, Like how many nipples we saw? I
Speaker 1: don't really remember any. I think zero maybe the dude
Speaker 1: nipples maybe nipples. Um, so yeah, zero to five nipples
Speaker 1: based on its representation of women. To me, this one's
Speaker 1: kind of like split down the middle, it's like a
Speaker 1: two point five um, just because it's I think it's
Speaker 1: making some attempts at trying to tackle various things. None
Speaker 1: of it goes very far or does anything, but it's
Speaker 1: also probably it's I think it would have been kind
Speaker 1: of groundbreaking or impressive for two thousands. So the fact
Speaker 1: that they're including a queer character at all, the fact
Speaker 1: that they're touching on eating disorders, the fact that they
Speaker 1: include a couple characters of color, different things like that,
Speaker 1: but also just a lot of the other problems that
Speaker 1: we've already discussed. So two point five and I'll give
Speaker 1: to to Zoe Saldonna and I'll give my remaining half
Speaker 1: nipple too. I'll give to Maureen's in her new career.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, I feel the same way I think two
Speaker 1: and a half. I think this movie is like actually
Speaker 1: making an effort, which in two thousand is like wow,
Speaker 1: an effort to talk about things, even if it doesn't
Speaker 1: get all the way there, that's something. Um yeah, it's
Speaker 1: progress in its way, you know, like attempts for two
Speaker 1: thousand is not nothing. And in what was you know,
Speaker 1: intended to be like a widely very popular movie, which
Speaker 1: maybe it wasn't, but you know whatever. Um, I just
Speaker 1: I love dance movies. Yeah. And then I think that
Speaker 1: like the main points were like yeah, the not really
Speaker 1: it seems like they weren't able to deal with a
Speaker 1: queer storyline in the way that they may have liked to. Um.
Speaker 1: I wish that we had gotten to learn more about
Speaker 1: even and avoided a little more of the like stock
Speaker 1: personality traits there. Um and just like the intense like, um,
Speaker 1: let's replace any point women could be interacting with hetero
Speaker 1: plot point of like men that we keep forgetting about. Um.
Speaker 1: But I love who suck in general? Who are either
Speaker 1: the worst or Charlie from Seattle, like whatever, Um, I
Speaker 1: love Sergey. Anyways, two and a half nipples, one to Sergey, uh,
Speaker 1: one to zoeys sel Donna, and the last half to Kathleen.
Speaker 1: I'm going strong to nips. Um. I agree with everything
Speaker 1: both of you just said, so I will. My new point,
Speaker 1: I guess is that with a movie that has I
Speaker 1: would say upwards of three stars, like people who are
Speaker 1: well known, this movie should have done better. Um. I
Speaker 1: think that it's a shame that you can have people
Speaker 1: who are clearly talented and not use them to the
Speaker 1: best of their abilities, Like the d answer should just
Speaker 1: been dancing. Why are they talking toone? We regret miss
Speaker 1: opportunity And I think, yeah, in the genre that it
Speaker 1: was in, like I considered it kind of like in
Speaker 1: the same era of like high school movies that were
Speaker 1: like big, like ten things and cruel intentions even like
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think that, Um, you know, if
Speaker 1: I had to give my two nipples for all of
Speaker 1: these things, I would give one nipple to New York
Speaker 1: City holding it down a beautiful backdrop for a very
Speaker 1: boring story. And um, okay, I'm gonna give half nipple
Speaker 1: to Sandy Cohen's eyebrows shout out the beginning of an
Speaker 1: era and I'll give the other half to Zoe because
Speaker 1: she should smoke in the dorms, burn it down. Who gives?
Speaker 1: Oh well, Tequila, thank you so much for being for
Speaker 1: having me. This has been a highlight of my life. Wow,
Speaker 1: this is wonderful. We're so glad you could come. Where
Speaker 1: can people follow you online? Check out your stuff that
Speaker 1: I live on the internet, So follow me on Twitter
Speaker 1: at Aquila. Obviously subscribe to my podcast. It's a daily
Speaker 1: news podcast for cricket media called What a Day comes
Speaker 1: out Monday through Friday. And uh, I don't know, don't
Speaker 1: show up at my dan's recital if I don't invite you.
Speaker 1: That's it perfect rule at them. Yes, uh yeah. You
Speaker 1: can follow us at Bechtel Cast, on Twitter, Instagram, all
Speaker 1: the places. You can follow us on Patreon. Five dollars
Speaker 1: a month means you get to bonus episodes every month
Speaker 1: and get merchant t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast. Wow,
Speaker 1: and now we all dance away by bye.