Jenny Curtis: Hello listeners and movie lovers, this is Jenny Curtis, producer
Jenny Curtis: of Hollywood Unscripted. We hope that you are staying safe
Jenny Curtis: and healthy. While we are on a season break, we
Jenny Curtis: will be bringing you a series of specials throughout this
Jenny Curtis: time. We ask that you forgive the audio quality as
Jenny Curtis: we are all recording from home on whatever technology is
Jenny Curtis: available. We hope that bringing you more conversations with the
Jenny Curtis: creatives you admire can help brighten your days in this
Jenny Curtis: trying time. So, without further ado, we present Hollywood Unscripted:
Jenny Curtis: Stuck at Home.
Speaker 2: From Curtco Media.
Speaker 3: There's no place like Hollywood.
Scott Tallal: Welcome to a special edition of Hollywood Unscripted: Stuck at
Scott Tallal: Home edition. I'm Scott Tallal, executive director of the Malibu
Scott Tallal: Film Society, and today's guests are actor Don Cheadle and
Scott Tallal: show runners, Jordan Cahan, and David Caspe from the Showtime series
Scott Tallal: Black Monday. Welcome, gentlemen.
David Caspe: Thank you. Glad to be here.
Don Cheadle: Hi.
Jordan Cahan: Hello.
Scott Tallal: We're recording the show April first. It's the third week
Scott Tallal: of California's stay at home order. I just wanted to ask,
Scott Tallal: how's everybody holding up right now?
Don Cheadle: Pretty good, considering everything. I don't think I got the
Don Cheadle: 'rona. I couldn't say for sure. Obviously, because people can
Don Cheadle: be asymptomatic and still be carriers. But everybody who I've
Don Cheadle: sneezed on to see and to test has not come back
Don Cheadle: positive, so pretty good over here.
David Caspe: There's not a lack of testing in your home. You've
David Caspe: developed your own test.
Don Cheadle: Yeah. I think when you're in the field, as I
Don Cheadle: am, we all are, but I'm in my own Petri
Don Cheadle: dish. You have to do what you have to do
Don Cheadle: to practice safe meing. And so that meant I have
Don Cheadle: to try to transmit it, see if it comes back.
Don Cheadle: I'm doing a little science on my own.
David Caspe: We're hanging in. I mean, obviously there's so many people
David Caspe: in such a worse situation than the three of us
David Caspe: you're asking that question to. So we're super fortunate to even have
David Caspe: the option of just how are we hanging in, in a
David Caspe: work from home, be with our families situation. There's obviously
David Caspe: so many people in such a worse situation. It's just
David Caspe: the darkest time we've experienced in a while, and our
David Caspe: hearts go out to everybody.
Jordan Cahan: I would say for me, the one thing that I'm
Jordan Cahan: enjoying in this difficult time is I get to sit
Jordan Cahan: with my daughter, who's in third grade, and teach her
Jordan Cahan: math. And that's been really nice. We shoot Black Monday,
Jordan Cahan: we're on a pretty rigorous schedule. We're doing long days
Jordan Cahan: and stuff. Not that there's any silver lining to this,
Jordan Cahan: but it's been nice to teach math fractions.
Scott Tallal: So, this is obviously an odd time for everybody.
David Caspe: Trump seems unbothered. It doesn't seem like that odd of
David Caspe: a time for him.
Don Cheadle: It was pretty startling to watch the press conference yesterday
Don Cheadle: and hear Fauci speaking about if we do this perfectly,
Don Cheadle: we could maybe get between 100,000 and 240,000 deaths, if we do
Don Cheadle: it great. I really hope Americans are ready to all
Don Cheadle: pull together and do it great. But like we were
Don Cheadle: talking about, people are still congregating on beaches and having
Don Cheadle: church (inaudible) and a lot of folks are acting
Don Cheadle: like, because they don't have it, there's no problem, that
Don Cheadle: they can perceive that they have it because they're asymptomatic.
Don Cheadle: So yeah, it's a very interesting time and a very
Don Cheadle: interesting time to be doing a show called Black Monday,
Don Cheadle: with the stock market doing what it's doing, and what we're looking
Don Cheadle: forward to. But I think it's also a perfect time for it because
Don Cheadle: who doesn't need a break from all of this to
Don Cheadle: just laugh at the ridiculousness of it.
Scott Tallal: David, I read an interview, some of the pre- season
Scott Tallal: two publicity that you were doing, and you were talking
Scott Tallal: about how you could theoretically take this show into the nineties
Scott Tallal: and then into the 2000s, right up until the 2008
Scott Tallal: crash. And then even beyond until the next crash. And,
Scott Tallal: of course, this was several weeks ago when you said, "
Scott Tallal: Of course, that's assuming we don't have a catastrophe before
Scott Tallal: the next crash." Well, we got both.
David Caspe: I said that?
Don Cheadle: Yeah. Thanks a lot, David. Good job, buddy.
David Caspe: (crosstalk) That sounds like a [ inaudible 00:04:16]. I think we'll
David Caspe: all keep going as long as they'll let us, right?
David Caspe: We had initially chosen the Lehman Brothers because we started writing
David Caspe: this a little right after that '08 crash and Lehman
David Caspe: Brothers went under, which was so crazy. So we just thought
David Caspe: wouldn't that be funny if the two villains in the
David Caspe: show are the Lehman Brothers, the actual brothers. And of
David Caspe: course, we made them twins that may or may not
David Caspe: be having sex with each other. So it's divorced from
David Caspe: reality a little bit. Yeah, we always imagined that the
David Caspe: whole series would end in '08, but who knows.
Jordan Cahan: Yeah, it's strange but we've had four black Mondays in
Jordan Cahan: the past two months or something.
Don Cheadle: Exactly, yeah.
Jordan Cahan: The timing was incredibly bizarre.
Scott Tallal: We've got, obviously, the showrunners, the writers and the session, as
Scott Tallal: well as Don the actor. But for the writers, writers
Scott Tallal: can write at home. Actors, what do you do at home
Scott Tallal: during this time?
Don Cheadle: It's interesting. I have a script that I haven't been working on for
Don Cheadle: the past season. I have a production company, so we're
Don Cheadle: still having meetings around things, which is very interesting. We were
Don Cheadle: talking before we went online about Zoom stock zooming through
Don Cheadle: the roof right now probably. But yeah, I had two
Don Cheadle: projects that we were just getting ready to start. This would
Don Cheadle: have been day three for me on the set on
Don Cheadle: one of them.
David Caspe: Oh, really?
Don Cheadle: Yeah.
Scott Tallal: Can you say which one, Don?
Don Cheadle: Kill Switch. It was a Steven Soderbergh movie. We'll see if it comes
Don Cheadle: back. Who knows? And I think that's where everything is
Don Cheadle: for everyone right now. Piggybacking on what David said, I'm
Don Cheadle: not crying poor me because I believe when everything comes
Don Cheadle: back, we'll have the ability to go back to work,
Don Cheadle: hopefully. I don't know how far we're going to have
Don Cheadle: to be staying away from each other, it's going to
Don Cheadle: be very interesting to be doing scenes if you have
Don Cheadle: to stay 10 feet away from your scene partners.
Jordan Cahan: The second that someone else is covered, you leave anyways. So it's kind of perfect, right?
Don Cheadle: That's true. I don't stay for off- camera. Thanks for letting Scott know that.
Don Cheadle: I barely stay for my own coverage.
Jordan Cahan: It's just the back of your head most of the time.
Don Cheadle: That's all contractual though. That doesn't have to do with me. That's
Don Cheadle: agent stuff. (inaudible) I think we just hunker down
Don Cheadle: and try to get ready for when we can come
Don Cheadle: back and do stuff. I mean, it definitely gives us
Don Cheadle: the opportunity to do tons more research. I'm reading a
Don Cheadle: ton of stuff. So there you go.
Scott Tallal: How many of you have kids at home? Because Don,
Scott Tallal: I know that you and Bridgid have a couple.
Don Cheadle: Yeah, they're out, thankfully. They left last year. I finally
Don Cheadle: got them out of the door. They're 11 and 14, but they're a
Don Cheadle: very mature 11 and 14.
Scott Tallal: Jordan?
Jordan Cahan: I have a five year old and an eight year- old.
David Caspe: I have two and a half and four and a half.
Don Cheadle: Wow.
Scott Tallal: So you're in the thick of it my friend.
David Caspe: It's funny because, not to get weirdly melodramatic, but obviously
David Caspe: always in life, there's things that give you a bunch
David Caspe: of perspective. And man, this is a perspective thing I
David Caspe: don't think any of us saw coming. I mean, this
David Caspe: is insane. I mean just across the board, everything, like
David Caspe: what a luxury it is to leave your home, how hard
David Caspe: working the people are who teach your kids or watch
David Caspe: your kids, if you have two working parents or whatever.
David Caspe: The list goes on, it's hundreds and hundreds of things.
Don Cheadle: Are your kids wondering why you and Casey are you home
Don Cheadle: so much?
David Caspe: Honestly, they're in the best moods I've ever seen them
David Caspe: in. And I think it's just because they love that we're around
David Caspe: all the time. And I have definitely been home for every
David Caspe: dinner in a way that I never was before. (inaudible)
David Caspe: you remove all the travel time, and so many of the
David Caspe: deadlines have relaxed in a way that I'm able to have
David Caspe: dinner with them, which it's been really nice. But there's
David Caspe: also this underlying dread that I'm sure we all feel of
David Caspe: why it's happening, is so dark and heartbreaking. It's just
David Caspe: horrible, it's just horrible.
Jordan Cahan: I will say that, speaking specifically about the show, when
Jordan Cahan: we're in the thick of it in the show, no
Jordan Cahan: matter how much fun we're having, I think we could
Jordan Cahan: all agree, we have a great time on this show and
Jordan Cahan: we're incredibly fortunate that everyone on the cast and crew is so
Jordan Cahan: awesome. But it's still a grind. David and I and
Jordan Cahan: Don, you're still working 18, 19, 20 hour days, some days. And
Jordan Cahan: in the middle of a season when you're trying to
Jordan Cahan: edit and you're running from stage to stage and setting
Jordan Cahan: up shots and making sure everything's okay and putting out fires, you
Jordan Cahan: feel that grind. And I cannot tell you how much
Jordan Cahan: I appreciate it now, now that I'm not doing it.
Jordan Cahan: Honestly, we are so immensely fortunate.
Don Cheadle: Well, your kids hate you.
Jordan Cahan: No, it's true.
David Caspe: I'm lucky that my kids are in preschool. So there's
David Caspe: not really a lesson plan or anything. So I'm not
David Caspe: having to teach, which seems brutal.
Scott Tallal: It's interesting because talking about family, the show had so
Scott Tallal: many family connections. I mean your wife, Casey, plays Tiffany
Scott Tallal: Georgina and her comedy writing partner, June Raphael.
David Caspe: June Diane Raphael.
Scott Tallal: Yeah. Plays Corky Harris. Her husband is Paul Scheer, Who's
Scott Tallal: also on the show. It seems like a nice, big
Scott Tallal: happy family.
Jordan Cahan: Yeah, it goes way beyond that. Don's wife, Bridgid, is the wife
Jordan Cahan: of a Black Panther friend of his that she's in episode
Jordan Cahan: three. Our costume designer, Melissa, her husband, played the private
Jordan Cahan: investigator in season one and season two.
David Caspe: Tuc Watkins who plays Congressman Harris, which is Blair's love
David Caspe: interest this year, is Andrew Rannells boyfriend in real life.
Scott Tallal: So you're saying their chemistry is genuine.
Jordan Cahan: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
David Caspe: Yassir Lester, who's on the show and also writes for
David Caspe: the show, in episode four that he wrote, his girlfriend,
David Caspe: Chelsea Devantez, is in that episode. She runs up asking
David Caspe: Regina for a photograph at the beginning.
Jordan Cahan: June's sister, Deanna, is racially profiling her in season one
Jordan Cahan: and then joins the TBD group in season two.
David Caspe: Our writer, Amelie Gillette, who wrote episode two, her husband
David Caspe: is a guy named Mark Proksch.
Jordan Cahan: Amazing.
David Caspe: He plays the bank manager that Cheadle and Scheer were
David Caspe: in all that stuff with, in the shootout episode.
Jordan Cahan: Also Janelle James is a writer on our show. He is
Jordan Cahan: one of the women in the office. We have Bridger
Jordan Cahan: who is a writer on our show. He plays the
Jordan Cahan: concierge of the hotel that Mo lives at.
David Caspe: And his boyfriend plays, in episode five, he plays a
David Caspe: prison guard.
Don Cheadle: So nepotism basically is what you're talking about. This started off with
Don Cheadle: family and then it turned into we only hire our friends.
David Caspe: It's easier than that. It's if they're within arms reach,
David Caspe: we use them on the show.
Don Cheadle: I'm in a show.
David Caspe: I'm sorry. What were you saying?
Don Cheadle: Sorry, I just took it back to me for a second.
David Caspe: Yeah. Let's get it back to what's important.
Scott Tallal: It's obviously not endemic to Hollywood. It's all business. You
Scott Tallal: want to surround yourself with people who know will do
Scott Tallal: a good job.
David Caspe: It's part of the fun of it, for us at
David Caspe: least, is working with people we know and love, but
David Caspe: also people who are so immensely talented. I don't know
David Caspe: if we ever would have landed June without her being
David Caspe: married to Paul. She's so good. Or getting Brigid to
David Caspe: come on. Again, we're immensely fortunate on this show. Every time I think about the
David Caspe: show, I'm like, " Man, we got lucky there. We got
David Caspe: lucky there. We got lucky there."
Scott Tallal: The casting has been amazing. Let's go back to the beginning of this, the
Scott Tallal: genesis. Because as I understand it, you actually were trading
Scott Tallal: emails and conversations about this as far back as 2007?
David Caspe: Very long time. And then we sold it to Showtime and we
David Caspe: wrote the script and we kind of got close, but then
David Caspe: didn't happen and then-
Don Cheadle: Didn't you guys say that Billions happened and you guys were like, "Oh,
Don Cheadle: well now it's never going to happen."
David Caspe: Basically. Yeah. It seemed like they probably wouldn't do two Wall
David Caspe: Street shows. And then I think they slowly realized that
David Caspe: our show has basically nothing to do with Wall Street.
David Caspe: But yeah, when Cheadle and Seth and Evan came on,
David Caspe: then obviously they made it because you're going to make
David Caspe: whatever Cheadle wants to do next.
Scott Tallal: Talking about your executive producers, you have Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg.
David Caspe: Yeah. When they came on to direct and when Cheadle
David Caspe: came on to star in it, then Showtime was like, "
David Caspe: Yes, let's make it."
Scott Tallal: It's still remarkable. You hear about movies that are 10, 12
Scott Tallal: years or in development or longer, but for a series,
Scott Tallal: that's not so normal.
Jordan Cahan: I remember when we thought we were dead because Wall
Jordan Cahan: Street Two had come up, Money Never Sleeps.
Don Cheadle: Money Never Sleeps, that's right.
Jordan Cahan: So Wall Street Two came out. We're like, " Okay, we're
Jordan Cahan: dead." And then Wolf of Wall Street came out and
Jordan Cahan: we were dead. And then they bought Billions and we
Jordan Cahan: were like, " We're dead." But we kept hanging around.
Scott Tallal: What took you to this content though, because this happened
Scott Tallal: when we were all a lot younger and I'm older
Scott Tallal: than you guys. I remember it very well. But Black
Scott Tallal: Monday, October 19th, 1987 was wild.
David Caspe: Yeah, it was a day before my ninth birthday. My dad was a commodity
David Caspe: trader in Chicago, a soybean trader. And so he always
David Caspe: told me crazy stories about all this shit that, I mean, he
David Caspe: claimed that he would just sort of see on his
David Caspe: way home and stuff. I would leave on Friday, waves
David Caspe: of prostitutes would walk in and all these guys would
David Caspe: do coke. I could see him on the other end
David Caspe: of the floor and stuff. And writer quickly pointed out like, "
David Caspe: Oh, sorry, you believe that your dad just happened to
David Caspe: know about and see all this stuff in explicit detail,
David Caspe: but did not participate in it?" I like to hold
David Caspe: onto that. And then maybe he did it, but who knows? But
David Caspe: yeah, he would tell crazy stories (inaudible) excess is always funny because
David Caspe: it's so stupid. And the 80s Excess, particularly, we always say
David Caspe: the movie Wall Street, which was like an Oscar nominated
David Caspe: drama, had a robot butler in it. I mean, if
David Caspe: the robot butler's in the drama, then we're not going
David Caspe: to have to stretch reality at all to be broad
David Caspe: because that's as broad as it gets. So you have
David Caspe: the comedy right there and then you have the drama and
David Caspe: the stakes, you can lose all your money. I mean,
David Caspe: it's the only job I can think of where you
David Caspe: actually can lose money. A lot of people can go
David Caspe: in and not sell a car that day. So they
David Caspe: didn't make money. But very rarely do you go in
David Caspe: and they're like, " Okay, we're going to take all the
David Caspe: money you made the last three years away from your bank."
Jordan Cahan: For our show, which totally is admittedly purposely kind of
Jordan Cahan: all over the place. It felt like a fun way
Jordan Cahan: to do something where the stakes could not be higher
Jordan Cahan: in a business world. And yet it's such a ridiculous,
Jordan Cahan: intense pressure cooker. But again, dramas like Scarface, the guy
Jordan Cahan: owns a Bengal tiger. It's just insane.
Scott Tallal: We know this happened in '87, '87 was also the year
Scott Tallal: that Bonfire of the Vanities was published by Tom Wolfe.
Jordan Cahan: That was really influential. I loved that book, and there's
Jordan Cahan: an episode of season one where they get lost in
Jordan Cahan: the middle of the city and it's kind of this
Jordan Cahan: no man's land. And that was a little bit inspired by
Jordan Cahan: the inciting incident, I guess you'd say, of Bonfire of
Jordan Cahan: the Vanities where he's driving with his mistress and they
Jordan Cahan: get lost in New York. It's like they're lost in
Jordan Cahan: a third world country in the middle of the city.
Jordan Cahan: And so we thought that that would be a really cool way
Jordan Cahan: to kind of honor some of the inspiration.
Scott Tallal: Of course, Wall Street. And as you said, Wall Street
Scott Tallal: two later, but Wall Street had come out, but this
Scott Tallal: was still six years before the Wolf of Wall Street.
Speaker 2: Yeah. In the second episode, we really wanted to capitalize
Speaker 2: on the comparisons to the movie Wall Street by having
Speaker 2: the Hollywood screenwriter come in and everything. And it was our way
Speaker 2: of kind of jumping all over that, but also hopefully
Speaker 2: putting it to bed a little bit. We were making
Speaker 2: fun of it, and having fun with the comparisons to
Speaker 2: it and saying that Maurice Monroe was kind of the model for-
Jordan Cahan: Gordon Gekko.
David Caspe: Yeah.
Scott Tallal: Gordon Gekko, yeah. You had started in on development in 2007-
David Caspe: Well, I mean, started in like having breakfast and being like, "
David Caspe: Hey, wouldn't it be fun to write a show about
David Caspe: Wall Street or Black Monday?" But we were both doing
David Caspe: other things separately for a long time. So it was slow
David Caspe: development. Probably didn't go in and pitch it until like
David Caspe: 2011 or something like that.
Scott Tallal: So what was the elevator pitch?
David Caspe: Oh, gosh. It would have to be an elevator from like, floor zero
David Caspe: to like, 1050.
Don Cheadle: You were pitching for sure. Cause I know you went
Don Cheadle: on. They were like, "Just what is it, David?" You're like, " I'm
Don Cheadle: getting to it!"
David Caspe: They basically bought it to shut us the fuck up.
David Caspe: They were just like, " If we (inaudible) this, will you leave?"
Scott Tallal: So, when did you get it in front of Seth Rogan and
Scott Tallal: his producing partner, Evan Goldberg?
David Caspe: When did we shoot the pilot, guys? 2018 or something? Or
David Caspe: '17, or what?
Jordan Cahan: '17, maybe. I don't remember.
David Caspe: So, probably about a year before that.
Jordan Cahan: And they're such bright guys that it was really cool,
Jordan Cahan: but David, I think had had a meeting with Evan.
Jordan Cahan: Right, Dave?
David Caspe: Yeah. I had a meeting just about a movie thing
David Caspe: with Devin and he read a few of my scripts
David Caspe: and that was one of them. He's like, " Oh, that
David Caspe: was really funny. What's going on with that?" I was like, "
David Caspe: Nothing. You guys should direct it." And he was like, "
David Caspe: All right, I'll bring it up to Seth," and Seth
David Caspe: liked it. And so then it was sort of a question of Showtime would
David Caspe: do it obviously only with someone great. And then Don
David Caspe: said yes.
Scott Tallal: Yeah, I understand it was Seth who had recommended Don.
Don Cheadle: I'm not sure. I had a meeting with David Nevins.
Scott Tallal: CEO of Showtime?
Don Cheadle: Yeah, when he first called me, he said, " Hey, I'm
Don Cheadle: thinking of this show. I got this show that I'm thinking about,
Don Cheadle: and I don't think it's right for you."
Scott Tallal: He knows how to press your buttons.
Don Cheadle: I think he was just processing his stuff out loud.
Don Cheadle: He was like, " But I'm just thinking about it. I
Don Cheadle: was like, " Okay, I'll talk to you later." And I
Don Cheadle: didn't talk to him. We didn't talk again for weeks.
Don Cheadle: And then he called me back and said, " Do you know
Don Cheadle: what? Actually, I've been thinking about it. I think maybe you would be
Don Cheadle: good for this. Let's get together and talk about it."
Scott Tallal: You had just come off of several seasons of House of
Scott Tallal: Lies for Showtime.
Don Cheadle: Correct.
Scott Tallal: Playing Marty Kaan, who, while not the same as Maurice
Scott Tallal: Monroe, along the same lines as.
Don Cheadle: It's dealing with, obviously, in the financial world, but completely
Don Cheadle: different aspects. And he's a person who is [inaudible 00:17: 46], Mo
Don Cheadle: is [inaudible 00:17:46]. No family to sort of anchor him or anything.
Don Cheadle: Just bananas. I think this is a true, true comedy.
Don Cheadle: House of Lies was a comedy, but it had much more
Don Cheadle: down notes than this has. And I think that's what
Don Cheadle: David was dealing with. Kind of going, " Is there enough
Don Cheadle: of a separation? Is it something that just be sort of
Don Cheadle: a redo? Is this something that will work?" And he was just kind
Don Cheadle: of processing this out loud to me and saying, " So
Don Cheadle: I just wanted to let you know, I was not sure,
Don Cheadle: but these are the things I was thinking about." I said, "
Don Cheadle: Okay, well let me know if anything settles in your
Don Cheadle: brain." And then he called me a few weeks later and was like, "
Don Cheadle: No, actually I thought about it. I do think this could
Don Cheadle: work with you. And do you want to meet David
Don Cheadle: and Jordan?" And I said, " Yes." We kind of had
Don Cheadle: a two part meal/ dinner and chopped it up. Right
Don Cheadle: guys? Remember that? Unless it was at lunch, I think it was ... Was
Don Cheadle: it lunch or dinner? I don't know [crosstalk 00:18:33].
David Caspe: I think it started with a dinner, but I'll never forget because
David Caspe: it got me so excited. I was like, " Holy shit,
David Caspe: we're going to sit down with Don Cheadle about this."
David Caspe: And one of the first things you said, Don, was,
David Caspe: you were like, " Yeah, these monologues are fucking insane. And
David Caspe: then he said, " I was reading one to my wife,
David Caspe: just being like 'can I even say some of this
David Caspe: stuff?'" And we had never met Bridgid and I know [inaudible 00:18:59]. But I
David Caspe: was like, " Oh my God, Don Cheadle was reading our
David Caspe: show to his wife!" Concerned about how insane it is. I was like, "
David Caspe: At least he's on the same wavelength as us." Because
David Caspe: I think we're a little concerned about how far we
David Caspe: went, too.
Don Cheadle: Yeah.
David Caspe: And then once Don was in, we'd spent so much
David Caspe: time together with him, just developing it into a character
David Caspe: that fits him more and also gets away from anything
David Caspe: that is similar to Marty. And it doesn't seem similar
David Caspe: to me. I mean, especially now do we even say Mo's
David Caspe: in the financial world? He plays bass in a hotel
David Caspe: band in Miami. It's pretty far away from it. But
David Caspe: yeah, I think his assessment's right, is that Mo is
David Caspe: all (inaudible) Marty was always in control, which is
David Caspe: basically polar opposite. But yeah, the three of us really
David Caspe: from the beginning clicked and developed it together and Don
David Caspe: calls me one of his best friends at this point.
Don Cheadle: I did (inaudible) until I saw your hair. And I was like, "
Don Cheadle: He's trying to boy band it. We can't be friends anymore."
David Caspe: I had strange days over here.
Scott Tallal: I do have one question about the preparation for season
Scott Tallal: opener of season two because, Don, there was a time you had
Scott Tallal: the wig on, you had the goatee going-
Don Cheadle: What wig?
Scott Tallal: And you looked in the mirror, your reaction.
Don Cheadle: I mean, it was fitting. It made sense, obviously Mo's
Don Cheadle: trying to hide and he's on the lam. We spent
Don Cheadle: quite a bit of time over a hiatus talking about
Don Cheadle: what was going to be coming in the writer's room, putting
Don Cheadle: pictures up on the board, getting reactions. We spent a
Don Cheadle: lot of time trying to figure out which iteration of
Don Cheadle: Mo we thought would work and not just who he
Don Cheadle: was going to be then, but who he would then
Don Cheadle: become, when he's going to try to return. And what
Don Cheadle: does Mo think is hot? What does Mo think is the
Don Cheadle: look that he needs to have? It's not just about hiding
Don Cheadle: out. It's also about looking good when you're wearing a sleeveless t-shirt [inaudible 00:20: 55].
David Caspe: I love the long hair so much.
Scott Tallal: Was there any part of you that liked how the long hair looked?
Don Cheadle: It grew on me, so to speak.
David Caspe: I love in the show, how you deal with the
David Caspe: long hair, Don, so naturally that he's full doing like
David Caspe: the flips and the hand coming back, all this shit
David Caspe: that you would do with long hair. I mean, the
David Caspe: stuff that I still dream about, he was doing all
David Caspe: that. So, naturally, I could tell that there was a part
David Caspe: of him at least, that appreciated getting to do that.
David Caspe: It was fun.
Don Cheadle: You have to make it yours, right? Can't look like
Don Cheadle: a foreign animal on top of your head. Again, I
Don Cheadle: think all of this stuff plays into who this insane
Don Cheadle: dude is. And that of course he would do that,
Don Cheadle: of course he would go that far into that extreme
Don Cheadle: and then figure out the next move should be like
Don Cheadle: Lando Calrissian. (inaudible) It all fit in the world
Don Cheadle: of Black Monday for sure. And it all made sense for
Don Cheadle: me for Mo 100%.
David Caspe: It kind of helped the journey too, because season one, the
David Caspe: character takes such a strong journey. I would say he
David Caspe: kind of realizes that you can only walk on that
David Caspe: tight rope for so long. He really gets stabbed in
David Caspe: the back. He gets (inaudible) twice at the end
David Caspe: of season one. So it felt like we needed to
David Caspe: start him somewhere in a new journey for season two
David Caspe: that I'm excited to to expose to people soon. And
David Caspe: if we get a third season, I think the first
David Caspe: thing we'll probably talk about, again, is [inaudible 00:22: 29], how is
David Caspe: Mo's (inaudible) in the early '90s.
Don Cheadle: You almost have it, David. You're [ inaudible 00:22: 38].
Jenny Curtis: Hello out there. This is Jenny Curtis. I am a
Jenny Curtis: podcast producer at Curtco media. And I am currently sitting
Jenny Curtis: alone in a very empty podcast studio, surrounded by hand
Jenny Curtis: sanitizer. And I'm recording this in an effort to reach
Jenny Curtis: out. It's not an easy time right now. We don't
Jenny Curtis: know what the day to day is going to look
Jenny Curtis: like for the next few weeks, even months. So I'm
Jenny Curtis: proposing something, let's all make something together. Curtco media has
Jenny Curtis: launched a podcast called A Moment of Your Time. These
Jenny Curtis: are bite- sized episodes and each one features you, out
Jenny Curtis: there. Go to Curtco.com/ AMomentOfYourTime for more information. We may
Jenny Curtis: have to stay apart, but let's create. Together.
Scott Tallal: So, the show is called Black Monday and the show
Scott Tallal: is ostensibly about how this wild and crazy group of
Scott Tallal: traders were secretly responsible for the Black Monday crash of
Scott Tallal: Wall Street. But season one ends with the crash of
Scott Tallal: Wall Street. At this point, you have to decide where
Scott Tallal: do we go now and where do our characters go now?
Jordan Cahan: Well, I think we felt it was really important to ...
Jordan Cahan: I love mysteries, and so one of the mysteries that
Jordan Cahan: we didn't hit on the head on purpose is, by
Jordan Cahan: the end of season one, we wanted people to be
Jordan Cahan: satisfied as far as who was behind Black Monday. I
Jordan Cahan: think that's definitive. I think the question for season two
Jordan Cahan: is who's going down for Black Monday? If it was
Jordan Cahan: manmade, if it was manufactured, which is what we're positive
Jordan Cahan: in our alternate history timeline, that might as well be
Jordan Cahan: real, who ultimately has to suffer the consequences of that. And that
Jordan Cahan: really is the back half of season two is as
Jordan Cahan: alliances get tested and all of that, it's kind of
Jordan Cahan: like who is going to take the fall for this
Jordan Cahan: giant act of global terrorism or every financial terrorist?
David Caspe: We had zero plan, if that's the question. We had zero
David Caspe: plan. I don't think we ever really expected the show
David Caspe: to get made period, much less get all the way
David Caspe: through the first season and get a second season. So
David Caspe: yeah, we definitely left the second season being like, " Okay."
David Caspe: When we got into the writer's room, we were just like, "
David Caspe: All right, so Mo's fled, the FBI has to be
David Caspe: probably after him. What would they be after him for?"
David Caspe: And then we got to like, well, he killed two people.
Don Cheadle: No, he didn't! No, he didn't. You keep saying that. [crosstalk 00:25:32].
Scott Tallal: Defend your character.
Jordan Cahan: We have an awesome team of writers overall, two seasons,
Jordan Cahan: so many great writers. And everybody just kind of pitched
Jordan Cahan: what they thought would be a funny place to take
Jordan Cahan: it. And Don pitched, and Regina pitched, and Andrew, and
Jordan Cahan: Paul and everyone, and my wife pitched her hair. She said, "
Jordan Cahan: Look, the one thing I want is a Princess Di
Jordan Cahan: bouffant and whatever else, is up to you." We'll take
Jordan Cahan: ideas from anywhere.
David Caspe: Yeah. I mean, talking about fortunate, our writers, we have
David Caspe: been so, I mean, it's just amazing how, when I
David Caspe: talk about how brilliant the cast is, the fact that
David Caspe: we get to work with these writers for two seasons
David Caspe: is unbelievable. I could go through every name of every
David Caspe: person now, but we got so lucky that all these writers
David Caspe: were willing to jump in and do something with us that's
David Caspe: so stupid.
Scott Tallal: Don, when you get the script, talk to us about that.
Don Cheadle: Getting the script?
Scott Tallal: Yeah, because what they have Mo doing, and saying ...
Don Cheadle: Well, that's what a lot of the calls are before we get to the table. I'm like
Don Cheadle: so, we're going to say this tomorrow, right guys? We're
Don Cheadle: all agreed that I'm going to say these certain lines. And I
Don Cheadle: tell them, sometimes, there's some things I'm just like, " No,
Don Cheadle: we're not doing that." I'm like, " If you guys want
Don Cheadle: to step in during that part and do the lines,
Don Cheadle: that's fine, but I'm not saying [ inaudible 00:26:52]." So, there's always
Don Cheadle: a negotiation around things. But I will say honestly that
Don Cheadle: those moments are rare. I'm usually 100% onboard with everything
Don Cheadle: that we're doing and wanting to push it further. And
Don Cheadle: in a show like this, with these characters at this
Don Cheadle: time, you do have to walk a line in some
Don Cheadle: ways, but if you're not leaning in to some of
Don Cheadle: the misogyny and some of the racism and some of
Don Cheadle: the, all the isms and ognyies these guys are rife
Don Cheadle: with, you wouldn't really be doing the time period. You
Don Cheadle: wouldn't be doing it legitimate. So that's a lot of
Don Cheadle: it is trying to figure out how far can we
Don Cheadle: step on that line? And sometimes you don't know until
Don Cheadle: you're across it. And you're like, " Okay, that's too far. Let's
Don Cheadle: pull it back." But we're always trying to push it.
Scott Tallal: Well, that's the interesting thing is because you're doing the late '80s
Scott Tallal: with all of those excesses, but you're also talking about today.
Don Cheadle: Correct. And I think that's when the show is working at its
Don Cheadle: optimal level. That's what we're able to do, is to
Don Cheadle: make fun of that time. But at the same time,
Don Cheadle: sort of draw a line between how we got here
Don Cheadle: from there and how a lot of it is circular
Don Cheadle: and cyclical. And we're not really going to get past
Don Cheadle: it. One of the things, when we were doing the research for
Don Cheadle: the show, one of the books that I was reading was talking
Don Cheadle: about this was sort of the era when all of
Don Cheadle: these regulations were just being put in place. It was
Don Cheadle: kind of the wild, Wild West before people like Milken
Don Cheadle: came in and did what he did. Everybody was doing
Don Cheadle: it. He just did it at such a level that they went, "
Don Cheadle: Okay, we got to do something about this. It's gone.
Don Cheadle: It's too big now." And even as we can see
Don Cheadle: today, the one thing that you can not excise from
Don Cheadle: this process is people. And people's inherent desire to get
Don Cheadle: over in greed and grit. And if there's a way
Don Cheadle: to game it, they're going to game it. So we
Don Cheadle: put all these regulations in place, try to protect people,
Don Cheadle: try to protect the process and not have people get
Don Cheadle: robbed blind, but there will be. And there will always
Don Cheadle: be someone who's going to figure out a way to
Don Cheadle: get around the rules and make it work for them.
Don Cheadle: And it's just up to are people going to do
Don Cheadle: anything about it? And I think that's what's fun about the show is to
Don Cheadle: keep getting our characters in those positions where they're doing
Don Cheadle: all of this stuff and figure out now what? Paint
Don Cheadle: them into a corner.
Jordan Cahan: This is not a tagline, but one of the things that David and I,
Jordan Cahan: what I was (inaudible) about is one of the
Jordan Cahan: rules of the show is kind of look how far
Jordan Cahan: we haven't come. And it's just seeing that drug, that
Jordan Cahan: line and that parallel to now and saying that despite the
Jordan Cahan: '80s being years and years ago, it still feels like
Jordan Cahan: all of these issues are just still bubbling to the
Jordan Cahan: surface all the time.
David Caspe: And we discover some shocking ones. There's a joke that's
David Caspe: coming up in a few episodes. That's just about what
David Caspe: are classic boy's clubs, where there's not really women, they're
David Caspe: like country clubs or the boardroom of a fortune 500
David Caspe: company back in the '80s we're talking about. And we
David Caspe: discovered that legally women weren't allowed on the Senate floor
David Caspe: in pants until like the early '90s, which is shocking.
David Caspe: I mean, I was born in '78, the '90s, I
David Caspe: was a person. You stumble on some of that. You're like, "
David Caspe: They weren't allowed to wear pants?" Women were not allowed
David Caspe: to wear pants on the Senate floor up until like
David Caspe: '92 or something like that.
Don Cheadle: If we can't see your legs, it's distracting when you're
Don Cheadle: trying to get (inaudible) legislation through. I can't see
Don Cheadle: your legs. I can't be sure you're really sincere about
Don Cheadle: this bill.
David Caspe: So crazy.
Jordan Cahan: (inaudible) correlation [ crosstalk 00:00:30:12].
Don Cheadle: I get it. No, I get it. I'm trying to explain it to
Don Cheadle: David, why that would be.
David Caspe: Stuff like that, that just shows you how far we
David Caspe: haven't come and how far, yeah.
Don Cheadle: Well, who knew? I mean, aside from the point of
Don Cheadle: whether or not we get more seasons or not, who
Don Cheadle: knew that you would never be at a loss for
Don Cheadle: material. Jordan said earlier now we've had three Black Mondays
Don Cheadle: in the last month. You're never going to run out
Don Cheadle: of material in that area.
David Caspe: No.
Jordan Cahan: Sadly, it's true.
Scott Tallal: Don, you're famously a activist in a lot of causes.
Scott Tallal: That seems to be a passion of yours outside of
Scott Tallal: acting, outside of producing. What are the causes you're supporting today?
Don Cheadle: A lot of times we're trying to figure out timing
Don Cheadle: on things. And it's such a 24 hour news cycle
Don Cheadle: around what's happening right now with our country and the pandemic
Don Cheadle: and always trying to figure out how to speak about
Don Cheadle: climate and keep that in the forefront. As the EPA
Don Cheadle: is easing more and more restrictions and everything's sort of
Don Cheadle: happening behind closed doors while we're focused on this and trying
Don Cheadle: to keep that front and center in different ways. Work
Don Cheadle: with a group called The Solutions Project. I'm on the
Don Cheadle: board, Mark Ruffalo sits on the board, he got me
Don Cheadle: on the board. And we were doing some work with
Don Cheadle: the USDA around the US open this year, trying to
Don Cheadle: focus on some water mitigation things and some community facing
Don Cheadle: stuff that was happening. But now that's pushed. So it's
Don Cheadle: constantly trying to find the right time and way to
Don Cheadle: draw attention to these issues. And we're always fighting for
Don Cheadle: space because the most sensationalistic thing leads and unless there's
Don Cheadle: a national disaster at your feet, and you could point
Don Cheadle: to that and show some cause and effect, it's hard
Don Cheadle: to get the attention for something like climate change, right now.
Scott Tallal: I don't know if obligation is the right word, but
Scott Tallal: can you talk to us about-
Don Cheadle: Is there an obligation?
Scott Tallal: No, just using your platform.
Don Cheadle: I guess, really, at the end of the day, it's a personal thing
Don Cheadle: for each individual to figure out where you get in, where
Don Cheadle: you fit in and what their responsibility is. Are they obligated
Don Cheadle: to use your word to give back once you have
Don Cheadle: this ability to be in the spotlight and direct people's
Don Cheadle: attention toward the things that are important to you? I
Don Cheadle: personally feel that it is, for me. And it probably
Don Cheadle: comes from my parents. It probably comes from my family
Don Cheadle: and always being told that it's your job, quote, unquote,
Don Cheadle: to speak up when you think something's not right. Not
Don Cheadle: just for yourself, but for whoever, for those who can't.
Don Cheadle: And it's something that was demonstrated for me. So this
Don Cheadle: happened before I had a platform, I was vocal about
Don Cheadle: things before anybody gave a shit about who I was to
Don Cheadle: listen to anything I had to say. So it's just
Don Cheadle: consistent for me. It's a continuum, but yeah, I think,
Don Cheadle: and I've been very lucky to work with a lot
Don Cheadle: of people who are like minded. We started Not on
Don Cheadle: Our Watch with George Clooney and Matt Damon and Brad
Don Cheadle: Pitt and Jerry Weintraub. So it's been sort of throughout
Don Cheadle: my career that I've worked with, like I said, Mark,
Don Cheadle: Ruffalo working on the solutions project together. I've been very
Don Cheadle: fortunate to work with people who do feel it is
Don Cheadle: their obligation and do want to take the light that
Don Cheadle: shown on them and try to shine it on people
Don Cheadle: that need the attention. And it's a more rewarding thing
Don Cheadle: to do than just try to cut lines at restaurants
Don Cheadle: and get a bunch of perks for stuff. It's being
Don Cheadle: able to actually use this to highlight people who've been
Don Cheadle: on the front lines of these issues for a long time
Don Cheadle: and are really struggling to get purchase. So I feel
Don Cheadle: honored to be able to do it.
David Caspe: I've never understood the concept, like actors and people in
David Caspe: Hollywood and stuff always get shit from certain people saying like, "
David Caspe: Why should we listen to you just because you're an
David Caspe: actor. Just because you can be in movies, that doesn't mean
David Caspe: we have to listen to you." They've never understood the
David Caspe: point that it's usually actors, they have access to such
David Caspe: a huge platform. It's using their platform to get people
David Caspe: to listen to other people, Don or an actor, usually,
David Caspe: who comes out or Joaquin Phoenix, talking about animal rights
David Caspe: and things like that. They're not coming out saying do
David Caspe: this because I think it, if you like my movies,
David Caspe: then you also have to-
Don Cheadle: Agree with my politics.
David Caspe: It's more just saying like, " Okay, this is how the
David Caspe: word gets out. And these are people that are trying
David Caspe: to get their word out." You pick the time when
David Caspe: everybody's watching so that everybody's watching. It's not disrespecting that
David Caspe: time. It's that, yeah, you do it when everyone's watching,
David Caspe: you know what I'm saying? I don't know. That always just
David Caspe: seems so stupid to me. George Clooney is not saying, "
David Caspe: Because I know about acting, I know about this."
Jordan Cahan: It's just sharing the spotlight, there's a generosity to it.
Scott Tallal: Yeah. Well, Brad would often say like " We can't get
Scott Tallal: out of the light and they can't get in the
Scott Tallal: light. We're just trying to take that beam and refract
Scott Tallal: that light and put it on people who have been doing this
Scott Tallal: work in the trenches way more than we have." We're
Scott Tallal: just the lightning rod off. We're all obviously at home,
Scott Tallal: staying at home, trying to stay safe during this. Any
Scott Tallal: final thoughts, any final words to the audience?
Speaker 3: Well, I would just like to say thank you to
Speaker 3: those that have tuned into the show and I hope
Speaker 3: that you're enjoying it. And hopefully we can be some
Speaker 3: kind of a respite during this time when we're all
Speaker 3: hopefully being responsible and hunkering down and staying a respectful
Speaker 3: social distance away from each other. We're going to come
Speaker 3: out of this. We're just grateful that people seem to
Speaker 3: be digging what's happening and we hope you continue to do so.
David Caspe: 100%. Thank you to all the people in danger right
David Caspe: now that are working jobs so all of us can
David Caspe: stay home.
Scott Tallal: Any final thoughts, Jordan?
Jordan Cahan: I'm not going to put a better than Don just
Jordan Cahan: did. Talk about a beautiful sentence. I've been feeling it
Jordan Cahan: in my chest too. That heaviness, that gravity, that we're
Jordan Cahan: all feeling. I read an article about this, but they
Jordan Cahan: call it existential grief. That we're all just feeling this
Jordan Cahan: giant wave. All I hope is that we give you
Jordan Cahan: one or two laughs or even tougher, a gasp at
Jordan Cahan: a twist or something that our show can deliver. To
Jordan Cahan: me, that, if we can do that, I'd be thrilled
Jordan Cahan: and delighted.
David Caspe: And it is a comedy by the way, a lot
David Caspe: of people for whatever reason, because it's called Black Monday and it
David Caspe: has such high level actors who can also do drama
David Caspe: along with comedy. I think the first instinct before people
David Caspe: watch the show was like, " Oh, that must be a
David Caspe: drama." It is, in fact, a comedy, there are a
David Caspe: lot of jokes. And if you're looking for a laugh
David Caspe: to, like Don said, take your mind off of the Hell
David Caspe: we find ourselves in, watch Black Monday on Sunday.
Jordan Cahan: I was drinking the other night, and someone asked me to
Jordan Cahan: describe what making this show is like with my oldest friend or
Jordan Cahan: one of my oldest friends. And I said, " It's kind
Jordan Cahan: of like we're robbing a 7/ 11." It feels just
Jordan Cahan: like I cannot believe they're letting us get away with
Jordan Cahan: the things that we can get away with, and doing it
Jordan Cahan: with Don. There is just a sense of joy and
Jordan Cahan: freedom to it. Even if we're giving people 1% of
Jordan Cahan: that, I'm really appreciative, too, that people are digging it in that
Jordan Cahan: way. So thanks everybody.
Scott Tallal: And thanks to our guests today. After Don Cheadle, show
Scott Tallal: runners Jordan Cahan and David Caspe from the Showtime series
Scott Tallal: Black Monday. Gentlemen, stay well to our audience. Stay well,
Scott Tallal: stay healthy, and join us again next time.
Don Cheadle: Appreciate it.
David Caspe: Stay safe, everybody.
Jordan Cahan: Take care, guys. Be safe.
Don Cheadle: Thank you.
Jenny Curtis: Hollywood Unscripted is created by Curtco media and presented in
Jenny Curtis: cooperation with the Malibu film society. This episode was hosted
Jenny Curtis: by Scott Talal with guests Don Cheadle, Jordan Cahan, and David
Jenny Curtis: Caspe. Produced and edited by Jenny Curtis, mastering by Michael
Jenny Curtis: Kennedy. The executive producer of Hollywood Unscripted is Stuart Halperin.
Jenny Curtis: The Hollywood Unscripted theme song is by Celleste and Eric
Jenny Curtis: Dick. Make sure to subscribe because throughout our off season,
Jenny Curtis: we will be bringing you more bonus episodes of Hollywood
Jenny Curtis: Unscripted: Stuck at Home. Stay safe and healthy. And thanks
Jenny Curtis: for listening.
Speaker 2: Curtco Media. Media for your mind.