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Speaker 1: from I Heart Radio and BAM for Productions. Listen to
Speaker 1: Magmaal on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast Welcome to Behind the Police,
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone, I'm Robert Evans,
Speaker 1: host of Behind the Bastards, which is normally a show
Speaker 1: about the worst people in all of history, and I
Speaker 1: guess it's still is. But but recent world events, UM
Speaker 1: have compelled us to create a special mini series, Behind
Speaker 1: the Police, where we are going to be giving a
Speaker 1: detailed history of American policing, all the good, the bad,
Speaker 1: and mostly mostly the bad and the ugly. It's it's
Speaker 1: mostly bad, uh and and mostly ugly. UM and UH.
Speaker 1: In order to help me give this story and tell
Speaker 1: it to the world, my guest today and for the
Speaker 1: next couple of weeks UH is Jason Petty, better known
Speaker 1: as Propaganda Jason. You are a hip hop artist, UM
Speaker 1: and a podcast host UM. And yeah, how are you doing? Man?
Speaker 1: Hey man? You know West West and the world don't fire.
Speaker 1: But NASCAR stopped flying Confederate flags. So that's a thing,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Yeah, it's in a weird
Speaker 1: moment right now. I just like like snag a picture
Speaker 1: of and just and like send it to yourself in
Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen and go what stupid director wrote this storyline?
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's wild, and like the wildest thing
Speaker 1: about it is that I think we were all at
Speaker 1: this point of getting like just completely exhausted by like
Speaker 1: this constant parade of like bad news and like political
Speaker 1: malfeasance and like horrible things being done by people in power,
Speaker 1: and nobody was able to get on the same page
Speaker 1: about really anything. Um. And then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you know, um, after the Minneapolis police murdered George Floyd
Speaker 1: in that video came out for like the first time
Speaker 1: in a long time, almost everyone, like most people got
Speaker 1: broadly onto the same page. Like, I mean, we weren't
Speaker 1: even on the same page about a virus. Like it's
Speaker 1: like some some that I'll give no ships about what
Speaker 1: political stance you are gonna kill you either way. We
Speaker 1: couldn't even agree on net Yeah, but then I was
Speaker 1: like we could agree that black lives matter for real.
Speaker 1: That's what we finally agree it on. Yeah, it's good,
Speaker 1: broadly good. Like I'm kind of I'm recording this from
Speaker 1: outside of the what will surely probably not exist by
Speaker 1: the time this airs, but was briefly the the the
Speaker 1: Seattle the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone. I went to check
Speaker 1: that out for a couple of days. Yes, it's been wild.
Speaker 1: I wish you could talk to me a little more
Speaker 1: about like there's got to be some sort of version
Speaker 1: of behind the bastards that's that is the Northwest. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like it's definitely a tale of two cities up there. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been getting tear gassed in Portland for days, and
Speaker 1: they were in Seattle too, but then they succeeded in
Speaker 1: getting their police to like pull out of a precinct um,
Speaker 1: which is wild and now the cops are back, so
Speaker 1: it didn't last. But like, yeah, and you've been on
Speaker 1: the ground in Los Angeles tending some of the protests,
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, Yeah, how have you felt about that? Dude?
Speaker 1: It's like obviously the sheer volume I mean because I
Speaker 1: was here for the you know, for the l A riots,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So the sheer volume of people,
Speaker 1: the amount of of um sustained energy has been like
Speaker 1: maybe something's different, you know what I'm saying. Um, the
Speaker 1: amount of diversity in the streets has been like yo,
Speaker 1: maybe I guess after having to like take it to
Speaker 1: the streets since the day after Trump was a did
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying? From the woman's marts all
Speaker 1: the way to the school shootings, to the to the climate,
Speaker 1: to the like there's no to the the damn um
Speaker 1: uh Muslim band. It's just like at some point we
Speaker 1: were just like, Okay, enough is a damn enough um.
Speaker 1: But I like to be fully transparent. I think I
Speaker 1: echo like the sounds of of of people who've been
Speaker 1: in like justice work for a while, where like your
Speaker 1: arms are still kind of folded on the side, like Okay,
Speaker 1: are you gonna be here next week? Yeah? You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. It's like you like this song, or
Speaker 1: you're gonna stay for the concert, like this a long concert,
Speaker 1: you feel me? Yeah? Yeah, it's a long And I
Speaker 1: guess that's kind of why we're doing you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: after like two weeks almost in the streets reporting on that,
Speaker 1: I kind of felt like the thing to do was
Speaker 1: to try to um because I guess it's I think
Speaker 1: it's wrong to say that we're all on the same page.
Speaker 1: We're all reading the same book, and the book is titled, uh,
Speaker 1: the police are murdering a whole ton of black people,
Speaker 1: um and also doing a bunch of other messed up stuff.
Speaker 1: And it feels like for a lot of folks the
Speaker 1: first time they opened that book was because they they
Speaker 1: went out to a protest and they got tear guests
Speaker 1: and some we were like confronted by the violence of
Speaker 1: American policing. Um, So I think now is a good
Speaker 1: time to go into a really deep history of American
Speaker 1: policing and let people know like where all this came from,
Speaker 1: because this didn't Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's so there's I
Speaker 1: and I and I know what I love about your show.
Speaker 1: It is I think why it reigned so true with me.
Speaker 1: It was like it's this stuff that like we we
Speaker 1: might be looking at the same dumpster fire, but I'm
Speaker 1: looking at it with a hundred years of history to
Speaker 1: know like I actually know what I'm looking at, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. And like y'all think I'm making
Speaker 1: this ship up, Like I'm not, Like I swear to you,
Speaker 1: I'm not making this up. Like just learn more and
Speaker 1: you'll stare at this dumpter fire like I am. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so let's stare at the dumpster fire. Um and and
Speaker 1: and really just yeah, I'll get into the story. Um.
Speaker 1: As a side note, your camera is phenomenal, Like what's
Speaker 1: up with this depth of feel on your That's great, man,
Speaker 1: it's like blurry in the back, like look at this.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that's so people don't see all of my
Speaker 1: all of my illegal artwork that's behind me. Yeah yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: very erotic. Yeah you see my bed here and by
Speaker 1: magic I mean snoring and my daughter kicking me and
Speaker 1: my wife in our roofs. Anyway, yeah yeah yeah, so,
Speaker 1: um yeah, I guess let's get into it. So obviously,
Speaker 1: the idea of law of their being laws that people
Speaker 1: could break and be punished, that's existed for a while.
Speaker 1: We all remember hearing about hammer Abi's code and stuff
Speaker 1: like back in back in school. Um, but throughout history,
Speaker 1: a surprising amount of society is probably most of them
Speaker 1: have lacked anything that we would recognize as like a
Speaker 1: police force and like an organized and kind of a
Speaker 1: modern sense of the word. Like a lot of times
Speaker 1: you'd have like the you know, you'd have a military
Speaker 1: that would enforce some rules for like the king or whoever,
Speaker 1: but you didn't have like beat cops rolling around, you know,
Speaker 1: scanning neighborhoods. Now, the ancient Egyptians had something that might
Speaker 1: be seen as kind of a predecessor to the police.
Speaker 1: It was a small, dedicated force regarding the tombs of
Speaker 1: the wealthy as well as their businesses. Um, which will
Speaker 1: be something of a pattern throughout the episode. Convinced everything.
Speaker 1: Let's just gonna that's the pattern anyway going, including policing
Speaker 1: for the police. Well you can't, they can't. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not all writing. Yes, um. So, some ancient Greek
Speaker 1: city states, including Athens, had what you might call a
Speaker 1: proto police force um as well. And in Athens this
Speaker 1: force was kind of geared towards protecting markets and keeping
Speaker 1: an eye on untrustworthy foreigners. So it's a little bit like,
Speaker 1: you know, a mix between normal police and ice. Um. Now,
Speaker 1: this was not considered to be an honorable job, as
Speaker 1: historian P. K. Bailey noted in the ninety lecture quote,
Speaker 1: even in the enlightened democracy of Athens in the fifth
Speaker 1: century BC, no free citizen was prepared to serve in
Speaker 1: that capacity, and such police force as there was, consisted
Speaker 1: of foreigners with the status of slaves who were the
Speaker 1: property of the states in Greece. Generally, very few of
Speaker 1: the states seem to have made any provision at all
Speaker 1: so far as is known for the ordinary policing of
Speaker 1: their cities, though the state of Sparta certainly had a
Speaker 1: very efficient system of secret police. This is really interesting
Speaker 1: to me, especially because of what comes next. So Sparta
Speaker 1: really seems to be like some of the first police
Speaker 1: that are very similar. You can draw a direct line
Speaker 1: from the Spartan secret police to the origins of American policing,
Speaker 1: which we're gonna we're gonna get to it a little bit,
Speaker 1: because the secret police of Sparta existed for one purpose
Speaker 1: and one purpose only, and it was to clamp down
Speaker 1: on any hint of rebellion from the vast majority of
Speaker 1: the nation's populace see only about one in seven. And
Speaker 1: Spartans were like the guys from three hundred, right that
Speaker 1: everybody knows, like with the with the abs and the
Speaker 1: and the spears. The vast majority of the population were helots.
Speaker 1: They were slaves, basically they were they were slaves. They
Speaker 1: were just straight up slaves. Like it was a slave
Speaker 1: empire Sparta was. The vast majority of people in the
Speaker 1: country were slaves, and the Spartan like leadership and the
Speaker 1: Spartan like citizens spent all of their time terrified of
Speaker 1: slave rebellions. That's why the Spartan army didn't actually leave
Speaker 1: the country all that often because like they'd get up risen. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So they had all these slaves and they had to
Speaker 1: like clamp down on them, and they established a secret
Speaker 1: policing force called the Crypteia, which was made up of
Speaker 1: young men who had just finished the basics of their
Speaker 1: military terry training. So once a year, Sparta would elect
Speaker 1: a council of five e force or leaders, and as
Speaker 1: part of a ritual, these forms would begin their term
Speaker 1: by declaring war on the Helot population. They did this
Speaker 1: every year, like every year we declare war on our slaves.
Speaker 1: So the Spartans had crips, is what you're telling me.
Speaker 1: They did? They did, Yeah, god crypta yeah, the crypt
Speaker 1: So they had crypt So that's sto. Was the boys
Speaker 1: in Blue. I'm telling you, man, Like this stuff has
Speaker 1: been going on for a long time, the Otter boys
Speaker 1: in Blue. And it was trying to keep the slaves.
Speaker 1: They was trying to keep the slaves from rebelling. Everybody
Speaker 1: tucked that back in. Tuck that away for a second.
Speaker 1: Keep that in your head, Keep that in your head.
Speaker 1: So every year these elected leaders, you know, formally declare
Speaker 1: war on the Helots and it's something of like a
Speaker 1: ritual like to, and this ritual is based around like
Speaker 1: keeping them from rebelling. So the Cryptana would be sent
Speaker 1: out to wander barefoot, armed with knives into the countryside,
Speaker 1: and they would seek out the strongest and the smartest
Speaker 1: of the Helots their slaves, and they would murder them
Speaker 1: in the night, collect the population of any potential leaders.
Speaker 1: That like, every year we go out, we find the
Speaker 1: smart ones, and we kill them so that they can't
Speaker 1: rise up against us. How does he fishing? Y'all telling
Speaker 1: me this is the pinnacle Western civilization, that's all we're
Speaker 1: trying to be, Okay, got it? It does make it
Speaker 1: kind of appropriate when you could a lot of American
Speaker 1: police officers were like spartan helmet patches. Now it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: a little on the nose. Yeah. Now, I should note
Speaker 1: here that there's actually there is quite a lot of
Speaker 1: historical debate about the Cryptia. Some scholars agree with defining
Speaker 1: them as a secret police, as a force to keep
Speaker 1: the Helots in line through regular murder. Victor Davis Hansen,
Speaker 1: who's a pretty prominent like pop historian, compares them to
Speaker 1: the Gestapo, but other historians will argue that the Cryptia
Speaker 1: were less of like a policing force and more of
Speaker 1: a guerrilla military unit and auxiliary to the regular Spartan
Speaker 1: military that's sort of um also acted as kind of
Speaker 1: an advanced training program designed to blood new warriors by
Speaker 1: like giving them easy kills to help them get over
Speaker 1: any hesitation they might have to do violence. And I
Speaker 1: don't think these two views are necessarily in conflict. The
Speaker 1: Kryptaia seemed to have been like a dedicated guerilla armyment
Speaker 1: to suppress descent against the ruling class by doing violence
Speaker 1: to the impoverished majority who produced all of Sparta's value.
Speaker 1: In this they fulfilled a not very different from a
Speaker 1: lot of police forces in Western history. He can't make
Speaker 1: this stuff up, man, because you can't. We can't make
Speaker 1: this up. It's I made myself today. I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a longer meditation, I'm gonna do some yoga.
Speaker 1: I am going to prepare myself for the amount of
Speaker 1: things you've ben to tail me right now. And none
Speaker 1: of it worked, because I still picked a fight with
Speaker 1: my wife today. It was like, I'm sorry, babe, it's
Speaker 1: we're about to talk about the ancient police. Okay, So
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but and for the record, fuck the ancient police,
Speaker 1: like you know, ancient w a like you feel. The
Speaker 1: Roman Republic didn't have any kind of like formal national
Speaker 1: police force for most of its history. In Rome, which
Speaker 1: is like the biggest city in the ancient world, for
Speaker 1: most of the time that it was like kind of
Speaker 1: the center of the world, lacked anything that we would
Speaker 1: describe as like police. As Rome grew to become the
Speaker 1: largest city and you know It's era, crime became an
Speaker 1: increasing problem. The wealthy were able to use vast networks
Speaker 1: of clients. Romans had this weird system whereby like if
Speaker 1: you were rich, you gave money to a bunch of
Speaker 1: people who had less, and they all had to like
Speaker 1: kind of have your back. Like everybody had a posse
Speaker 1: in ancient that's the way to look at like every Yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody had like a big squad um. And so the
Speaker 1: wealthy were able to use these big squads to like,
Speaker 1: you know, defend themselves from aggression and murder their political enemies,
Speaker 1: protect them in the streets and stuff. Um. Meanwhile, organized
Speaker 1: criminals and gangs did basically the same thing, and there
Speaker 1: wasn't really a big difference between like the rich and
Speaker 1: their squads and like criminal gangs. They were kind of
Speaker 1: the same thing. Um. Now, victims of crimes had to
Speaker 1: either get revenged themselves or whip up a mob of
Speaker 1: their fellow citizens to help them in this task. There
Speaker 1: was a lot of whipping up of mobs in ancient Rome. Um, Yeah,
Speaker 1: why don't I I could just it just makes it
Speaker 1: just it just tracks like that just tracks so well.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, we've always been the same species. Wait,
Speaker 1: the same we are the same. But one of the
Speaker 1: best my history professor in college, one of the best
Speaker 1: thing he said to me was like, if you want
Speaker 1: to know what happened in history, thing about what you
Speaker 1: would do, it's just us, then what would you do?
Speaker 1: It's history is us them? Yeah, And in ancient room,
Speaker 1: like the kind of graffiti networks they had really did
Speaker 1: act a lot like social media does to the extent
Speaker 1: that like kind of famous and powerful people would use
Speaker 1: like graffiti to get like shiploads like to to kind
Speaker 1: of do the same thing that like people who get
Speaker 1: piste off online and have a following can do like
Speaker 1: like but with a literal mob as opposed to I'm
Speaker 1: literally cancel you ancient style yeah, I'm gonna cancel you
Speaker 1: by having four hundred dudes stab you repeatedly. We talk
Speaker 1: about the government, mean it was, it was just kind
Speaker 1: of everyone. Yeah. Uh. Seneca, a Roman philosopher in this period,
Speaker 1: described street life in Rome this way. Some things will
Speaker 1: be thrown at you, some will hit you, um, which
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, Rome's first emperor, august Us, when like
Speaker 1: the whole republic thing ended, he established what's generally recognized
Speaker 1: as the city's first police force. And it would be
Speaker 1: fairer to describe them as like a fire department that
Speaker 1: also did some policing. Um. They were called the vigils um,
Speaker 1: and they stood watch at night and mainly kind of
Speaker 1: looked out for fires and attempted to stop the city
Speaker 1: from burning down because that was like a huge problem
Speaker 1: in Rome. And the vigils were armed though, and they
Speaker 1: were drilled in a similar way to soldiers. You know,
Speaker 1: they used artillery to shoot dampening materials onto fires. But
Speaker 1: they also had the right to enforce laws and had
Speaker 1: the right to enter private homes to capture thieves, returned
Speaker 1: runaway slaves, and generally insure order. Um. So kind of
Speaker 1: like a fire department mixed with the police force um
Speaker 1: and this system didn't really spread widely throughout the Roman Empire,
Speaker 1: but broadly similar systems were established in a number of
Speaker 1: European cities intermittently over the centuries. The night watchman was
Speaker 1: kind of the most common way that this would this
Speaker 1: would wind up happening. And these were just, you know,
Speaker 1: in most of Europe, members of the community who like
Speaker 1: would rotate through the job of defending their town or
Speaker 1: city from external threats like invaders and internal threats like fire.
Speaker 1: Their primary job was to give alarm to kind of
Speaker 1: get like everybody together so that they could deal with
Speaker 1: whatever problem, you know, happened in the night. And most
Speaker 1: of what we today would recognize as law enforcement was
Speaker 1: handled by citizens watching over their own communities. The English
Speaker 1: called this kin police, as it was generally seen as
Speaker 1: the responsibility of individual families to watch out foreign police
Speaker 1: their family members. Right, you know, there's not nothing centralized
Speaker 1: really in a lot of this period, you know, the
Speaker 1: Middle Ages and ship whatever you wanna call it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it starting to yeah, yeah, yeah, like watch your people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: hey man, get your boy, get your boy. Whose man's
Speaker 1: is this? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I love it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it makes sense, Yeah, it kind of does. Yeah. Uh So,
Speaker 1: starting in the Middle Ages, like kind of the Late
Speaker 1: Middle Ages, English communities began to develop something called the
Speaker 1: frank pledge system. Now, this was a structure by which
Speaker 1: small groups of men could enforce the law in communities,
Speaker 1: and it was based around tin man groups called tithings,
Speaker 1: which were themselves grouped into hundreds and then shires, which
Speaker 1: were similar to modern counties. So if you wondering where
Speaker 1: like the lord of the rings, why they called the
Speaker 1: shire that was like an old English word for a county. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now the person who was in charge, yeah, yeah, that's so,
Speaker 1: the person who was in charge of all of the
Speaker 1: different tithings, those tin man groups in a shire was
Speaker 1: called the shire reeve. And that's where the word sheriff
Speaker 1: comes from. Is like the head of this like shire
Speaker 1: wild kind of community protection group, the shire reef, the
Speaker 1: shaff And that's why the sheriff's run the county exactly exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's where that comes back to. So yeah, it
Speaker 1: makes sense. Yeah, and so far we're like this isn't
Speaker 1: something you can really like obviously, like the Spartan police
Speaker 1: is terrible, but like this makes sense, Like, yeah, you
Speaker 1: take care of your community, like everybody kind of run,
Speaker 1: rotates through it, share, Yeah, hard to be angry at it.
Speaker 1: Individuals within tithings were expected to apprehend criminals and bring
Speaker 1: them to court, and shire Reeves oversaw their work. When
Speaker 1: Europeans began, you know, genociding and conquering North America, they
Speaker 1: brought variants of this system and other kind of similar
Speaker 1: systems developed in other parts of Europe with them. Policing
Speaker 1: in you know, the colonies which you know, we're broadly
Speaker 1: referring to like mainly North America here, Like I'm not
Speaker 1: really I don't have the time to like talk about
Speaker 1: like what went on in South America, Central America. We're
Speaker 1: talking about like kind of the particularly the English speaking
Speaker 1: colonies that started on the East Coast. Um Policing in
Speaker 1: those colonies fell into two broad categories, known to historians
Speaker 1: as the Watch and the big stick. And I'm going
Speaker 1: to quote next from a paper on the history of
Speaker 1: US policing by Dr Gary Potter of Eastern Kentucky University. Quote.
Speaker 1: The Watch system was composed of community volunteers whose primary
Speaker 1: duty was to warn of impending danger. Boston created a
Speaker 1: night Watch in sixteen thirty six New York and sixteen
Speaker 1: fifty eight in Philadelphia, and sev undred. The night Watch
Speaker 1: was not a particularly effective crime control device. Watchman often
Speaker 1: slept or drank on duty. Well, the watch was theoretically voluntary,
Speaker 1: many volunteers were simply attempting to evade military service, were conscripts,
Speaker 1: forced into service by their talent, were performing watch duties
Speaker 1: as a form of punishment. And I have to say again,
Speaker 1: last night, I was kind of hanging out in the
Speaker 1: Autonomous Zone and I volunteered to do a shift on
Speaker 1: the night Watch, and I was definitely drinking. You know.
Speaker 1: We we look in in the hood, you know again,
Speaker 1: like the part we built it's called apology. And one
Speaker 1: of the things is like I just feel like, Okay,
Speaker 1: no matter how unique our experiences, like you said, we're
Speaker 1: kind of we're still all the same species. Right. So
Speaker 1: when we talk about like, um neighborhood pigeons, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's there's there's a there's a misogynistic version of that.
Speaker 1: And then they the other part that we would call
Speaker 1: the pigeon stool, which is like the guy who's supposed
Speaker 1: to sit at the edge of the street to make
Speaker 1: sure to see if the cops are coming. Right. So
Speaker 1: that's your pigeon stool, right, and he's drunk all the time.
Speaker 1: He's drunk, like he falling asleep, and it's just so.
Speaker 1: And the hope is to do that because it's the
Speaker 1: easiest because it's odds are nobody coming, you know, So
Speaker 1: you could just sit over there and just kind of
Speaker 1: like he's trying to holler at girls like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just just on the one off chance that the
Speaker 1: police actually come around. I mean, that's your life. But
Speaker 1: most of the time that's not gonna happen. Yeah, just
Speaker 1: sit there and drinking, smoking, Yeah, keep an eye on things,
Speaker 1: but not all that. Make sure everybody. Just make sure
Speaker 1: mama not coming, you know. So these kind of watch
Speaker 1: systems that started, you know, hitting you know, the colonized
Speaker 1: Northeast were more similar to the pseudo police system that
Speaker 1: you saw in ancient Athens than anything else. Um, and
Speaker 1: you know, kind of the the other side of this
Speaker 1: was the big stick system. And this was the first
Speaker 1: real example of for profit policing. We're not gonna go
Speaker 1: into tremendous detail about it in this episode. We're going
Speaker 1: to talk about it a lot more in our next episode,
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna give an overview here. So in a
Speaker 1: you know, we're when we're talking about the colonies, we're
Speaker 1: talking about a very unregulated market for law enforcement in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. You know, there's not an organized,
Speaker 1: centralized police, but there are merchants who have a lot
Speaker 1: of property, and those merchants want to make sure their
Speaker 1: property doesn't get stolen um, either when it's in transit
Speaker 1: or when it's in a shop. And so you know,
Speaker 1: they have they have constables in these towns, and constables
Speaker 1: are either appointed, um kind of in like a rotating basis,
Speaker 1: so like you do your your brief period of time
Speaker 1: as constable, or you're elected to be constable. It was
Speaker 1: kind of they did it a couple of different ways. Um.
Speaker 1: And as a general rule, because constables weren't really paid, um, like,
Speaker 1: they had to develop services that they would sort of
Speaker 1: sell to be ble in order to make the job worthwhile.
Speaker 1: So sometimes they acted acted as land surveyors. They would
Speaker 1: verify the accuracy of scales, but they would also get
Speaker 1: paid directly by the merchants they were protecting. And so
Speaker 1: as a general rule, these constables were really just hired
Speaker 1: muscle for the business leaders in these communities. Um, and
Speaker 1: they would be paid by the people. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: they weren't being paid by the state to enforce justice.
Speaker 1: They were being paid by people with money to enforce debts,
Speaker 1: to punish theft, and to even intimidate rival business owners
Speaker 1: right like that. Yeah they're good, they're hired. Yeah. Um
Speaker 1: and obviously uh as you caught by calling them hired goons.
Speaker 1: This was not seen as an honorable job. People don't
Speaker 1: really want to be a constable, right like, there was
Speaker 1: no blue lives like back the yeah so. Historian Gary
Speaker 1: Potter notes that constables and night watch officers quote didn't
Speaker 1: want to wear badges because these guys had bad reputations
Speaker 1: to begin with, and they didn't want to be identified
Speaker 1: as people that other people didn't like. There was a
Speaker 1: strong resistance with early law enforcement of being identified as
Speaker 1: law enforcement because nobody liked you. Now, some towns in
Speaker 1: colonial North America made service in the watch compulsory. Rich
Speaker 1: people tended to pay poor people to take their shifts
Speaker 1: for them, and Potter notes that these substitutes were usually
Speaker 1: quote a criminal or a community thug. Yeah. Yeah again,
Speaker 1: it all tracks yeah, that's yeah. Yeah. In eighteen twenty nine,
Speaker 1: back over in England, Sir Robert Peel, who was the
Speaker 1: Home Secretary of England, introduced the Bill for Improving the
Speaker 1: Police in and in and Near the Metropolis. Now. The
Speaker 1: goal of this was to take the air set system
Speaker 1: of watchmen and the like and formalize them into a
Speaker 1: real police force. And the London Metropolitan Police are generally
Speaker 1: recognized to be the very first modern police department in history.
Speaker 1: Um And Peel he's an interesting guy. He felt that
Speaker 1: the job of police should be to prevent crime rather
Speaker 1: than to punish it, because that's kind of what you know,
Speaker 1: all these constables something got stolen, you like you'd get
Speaker 1: paid to go like funk up the person who stole it, right,
Speaker 1: But like they weren't really preventing crimes. So Peele was like,
Speaker 1: what if we tried to stop crimes? Um, And he
Speaker 1: felt the best way to achieve that goal was with
Speaker 1: regular visible patrols of officers from a formal centralized apartment
Speaker 1: with uniforms and ranks and a clear physical headquarters so
Speaker 1: that people like new those aren't just dudes, like those
Speaker 1: are the police and they're like a part of the
Speaker 1: state now. Peel felt that it was critical that only calm,
Speaker 1: even tempered citizens should be police officers. He felt again,
Speaker 1: yeah what I thought thought, Yeah, yeah, that one didn't
Speaker 1: really spread. Um. I don't know much about the London police,
Speaker 1: but it didn't make it across the pond. It's just
Speaker 1: there's there's a few things that they threw out the
Speaker 1: baby with the bathwater in this situation. I get you
Speaker 1: didn't want to have a you don't want to have
Speaker 1: a king anymore, you know, you know, like the t
Speaker 1: I get it, but like maybe having a calm police
Speaker 1: voice wasn't a bad idea. Took part of the magna carta.
Speaker 1: He was like, yo, it is that this kind of
Speaker 1: seems like a good idea. Maybe YE should have taken
Speaker 1: that one too. Yeah, And I did recently watch like again,
Speaker 1: the London police have done a lot of messed up
Speaker 1: stuff too, even with some of the recent protests. But
Speaker 1: I did watch that when they threw the statue of
Speaker 1: that slaveholder into the bay in Bristol, um into the channel. Um,
Speaker 1: I watched an interview with like the local constable or whatever.
Speaker 1: He was, like the local police chief type guy in Bristol,
Speaker 1: because he was being asked by the news like why
Speaker 1: he didn't stop it, and his answer was basically like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a cop, so obviously I'm not okay
Speaker 1: with property destruction. But we had a choice to, like, like,
Speaker 1: our choice was to either let it happen or like
Speaker 1: basically funk up people to protect the statue. And I
Speaker 1: felt like that would be bad for community trusting the police.
Speaker 1: Pretty reasonable attitude, taking on your feet, man, like you
Speaker 1: feel me, like yeah, and he's like, what do I
Speaker 1: care about the statue? You know? So um yeah. Peel
Speaker 1: had some other ideas too. Again, he felt that like
Speaker 1: police needed uniforms with badges that had visible display numbers.
Speaker 1: So he was the idea like police should have matge
Speaker 1: numbers that you can identify. If you're encounter a police officer,
Speaker 1: you can identify them. He also felt that police should
Speaker 1: not carry firearms, and again that's like still kind of
Speaker 1: broadly applied and a lot of you know, English policing. Now,
Speaker 1: some of Peel's ideas quickly spread. Obviously not the thing. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that again. Apart two, American police didn't
Speaker 1: initially have guns um in eighteen thirty eight, though the
Speaker 1: city of Boston became the first U s city to
Speaker 1: establish a modern police force. Now, the creation of the
Speaker 1: Boston Police, which we'll talk about a bit more in
Speaker 1: our next episode, was driven by largely a capitalist necessity
Speaker 1: to protect the property of big business. Boston merchants had
Speaker 1: been paying constables and the like to protect their goods
Speaker 1: for years, and they pushed for the establishment of a
Speaker 1: formal police force in order to shift the burden of
Speaker 1: paying for this onto the public, arguing that such a
Speaker 1: force would be for the collective good. So now we
Speaker 1: the merchants still get our stuff protected, but we don't
Speaker 1: have to pay everywhere we you know, we pay a
Speaker 1: little bit, but we pay a lot less because everybody
Speaker 1: is paying for these guys to protect our stuff. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So so that's interesting. Um, now we're we'll return to
Speaker 1: these Northern police and again our second episode is going
Speaker 1: to cover more that because you know, while the Boston
Speaker 1: Police of the first modern department in history, the roots
Speaker 1: of many US police departments go back much further than
Speaker 1: ety eight And I think a lot of folks have heard,
Speaker 1: you know, through social media or whatever. In the last
Speaker 1: couple of weeks as we've gone through this, this uprising. UM.
Speaker 1: The idea that American police started out with slave patrols. UM,
Speaker 1: And that's what we're going to talk about now, And
Speaker 1: that's partly accurate. It's not fair to say that all
Speaker 1: US police started as slave patrols because obviously, in the
Speaker 1: North they didn't have you know, slave patrols, really they had, um.
Speaker 1: You know, it was a different route in the North.
Speaker 1: But in the American South, policing absolutely did grow out
Speaker 1: of slave patrols. UM. And it you know, it came
Speaker 1: out and you can draw a line between the two
Speaker 1: because obviously, like the first police departments in the North
Speaker 1: come out of a desire from you know, people with
Speaker 1: money and property and shops to protect their property. And
Speaker 1: then the American South policing also grew out of it
Speaker 1: as ire for people with money to protect their property,
Speaker 1: but that property was enslaved human being. Yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know who doesn't establish slave patrols. Well, that's not man.
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I think you never know, bro,
Speaker 1: you never know, I never know, man. Yeah, you know
Speaker 1: who historically might have tried to establish police departments to
Speaker 1: protect this is I'm not doing great with this. Hey,
Speaker 1: you know who? Uh that I got no neither. Man,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, we're going to roll ads now. Just simply
Speaker 1: go fun the police. It's an odd break, there it is,
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Speaker 1: We are back. Uh yeah, so we're we're we're getting
Speaker 1: into we're talking slave patrols. Now, we're talking slave patrols. Yes,
Speaker 1: So the first slave patrol was created in the Carolina
Speaker 1: colonies in seventeen o four and twenty six, years before
Speaker 1: Boston got its police force. And this is again we're
Speaker 1: not we're not even North or South Carolina yet. They
Speaker 1: hadn't gotten that far. But they knew they wanted Carolinas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we were clear on that, and they were clear that
Speaker 1: they wanted slave patrols in those Carolinas. And yeah, sorry dude,
Speaker 1: sorry man, Yeah sorry. I was first I was gonna
Speaker 1: go o Carolina, but I was like, that's probably not
Speaker 1: gonna land as well this week. Carolina, Sweet Carolina. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you read the room right. Yeah, so slave
Speaker 1: patrols had three jobs. To chase down, apprehend, and return
Speaker 1: escaped slaves to their owners, and to discipline slave labors
Speaker 1: via violence if they broke plantation rules, and to act
Speaker 1: as an organized and constant form of state endorsed terror
Speaker 1: in order to stop American slaves from revolting. Now, white
Speaker 1: Southerners lived in pretty much constant fear of slave uprisings
Speaker 1: the Haitian Revolution which started in sev and again it
Speaker 1: is very complicated the Revolutions podcast. But I think Mike
Speaker 1: Duncan is his name, is a great job of breaking
Speaker 1: this down. But the end result of it is that
Speaker 1: black enslaved people rosed up and murdered many of their masters.
Speaker 1: And they also, to make this very complicated, a lot
Speaker 1: of their masters were also colored peoples are very complimented. Twisted,
Speaker 1: it's really twisted. Supremacy just really scrambles your brain, man, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it sure does. Beside note about Haitians, did you know
Speaker 1: that that's where the word zombie came from. I do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's Haitians and came from a zombie. Yeah, and it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's kind of like, I'm sorry, Sophie, it's history. I'm
Speaker 1: just hoping he doesn't sing. She knows I'm going to
Speaker 1: start singing the Cranberry song. Zombie. That's what that was.
Speaker 1: Sophie got triggered. Jall was like thiss sing to me again, please, Okay.
Speaker 1: It is kind of neat. I don't know, neat maybe
Speaker 1: the wrong word, but I do think like you can.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe I'm I'm wrong about this, but
Speaker 1: it seems like you might be able to draw kind
Speaker 1: of a line and sort of the impetus behind or
Speaker 1: like why kind of these like where the zombie sort
Speaker 1: of myth came from an Haitian culture and it's like
Speaker 1: roots to like the enslavement of of of of black
Speaker 1: bodies and like kind of what the like what was
Speaker 1: kind of depicted and get out like yeah, yeah it is.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of a lot of ties to that,
Speaker 1: to where you're just like you're a shell of who
Speaker 1: you are. So they were like they look like they're working,
Speaker 1: but they look like there's nothing, no life behind their eyes,
Speaker 1: and it's like, well fooled, uh, saying of course there's
Speaker 1: not like this, is there any thing more hopeless than
Speaker 1: where I am right now? You know? Yeah? And it
Speaker 1: was you know what what scared white people. So much
Speaker 1: about the Haitian Revolution is that it kind of proved
Speaker 1: that like, oh no, that light is still in there,
Speaker 1: Like you can you can beat them down pretty bad,
Speaker 1: but like it never goes away, and like if we're
Speaker 1: not careful, that'll happen here and they'll kill us all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and you know, unfortunately, the Haitian Revolution remains the
Speaker 1: only successful slavery bolt in Western history, I think maybe
Speaker 1: the only the most definitely the most successful slave rebellion
Speaker 1: anywhere in history really because like based on like the
Speaker 1: yeah as as far as like Chattow slavery and like
Speaker 1: the Transtlantic slave trade, that's the only one that worked. Yeah, yeah, um,
Speaker 1: which is a it's I mean, it's good that it worked.
Speaker 1: It's a bummer it didn't work elsewhere. Um. But the
Speaker 1: memory of this one successful uprising was was really lodged
Speaker 1: deep in the psyche of white Southerners and it scared
Speaker 1: the ship out of them. Um. And you can you
Speaker 1: can hear echoes of that in the Slave patrollers Oath
Speaker 1: from North Carolina in eighteen twenty eight. And I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read that now. Well wait, let me take
Speaker 1: a deep breath for you do it? Yeah, Okay, go
Speaker 1: for it. Yeah, I patroller's name, do swear that I will,
Speaker 1: as searcher for guns, swords, and other weapons among the
Speaker 1: slaves in my district, faithfully and as privately as I can,
Speaker 1: discharge the trust reposed in me as the law directs,
Speaker 1: to the best of my power. So help me God.
Speaker 1: So again, what they're looking for here, they're they're they're
Speaker 1: trying to stop a rebellion. Um. So searching for weaponry
Speaker 1: is kind of like one aspect of how they did this.
Speaker 1: But really the thing they did the most was beat
Speaker 1: the ever living ship out of slaves. Yeah yeah. Um. Now,
Speaker 1: in most of the South, working in these slave patrols
Speaker 1: was an obligation for white men, similar to compulsory military service,
Speaker 1: and in most of the slave states it was kind
Speaker 1: of broadly mixed between rich people and poor people. So
Speaker 1: like a lot of slave patrollers didn't actually own slaves
Speaker 1: because they were poor white dudes. Um, but it was
Speaker 1: kind of seen as a broad duty for white people
Speaker 1: to be in the slave patrols, for men to kind
Speaker 1: of wrote through. Um. Now, rich people could in some
Speaker 1: places like basically pay a fine in order to not
Speaker 1: volunteer in the slave patrol um and it was also
Speaker 1: not uncommon for like wealthy white dudes uh and who
Speaker 1: were ironically the folks who owned the most slaves, to
Speaker 1: pay to have poor white men take their place. South
Speaker 1: Carolina was unique in allowing white women to be called
Speaker 1: up for service and slave patrol. So that's what, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. You know, you pick your
Speaker 1: you pick your oppression, and you're just like this is
Speaker 1: the one I'm gonna fight for. You know, it's like
Speaker 1: cheering when the CIA puts a woman in charge. It's
Speaker 1: like we did it. Yeah, I always say that, Like
Speaker 1: I always say, you know, obviously reading the room, Like
Speaker 1: I don't have to tell y'all this, but like just
Speaker 1: the difference between white people in whiteness, you know, it's
Speaker 1: like it's a it's a it's a thing. Whiteness is
Speaker 1: that it's a thing. It's itself just it's booked and
Speaker 1: you know, cooked, and a white supremacy. And from from
Speaker 1: my vantage point, it's like just how detrimental that is
Speaker 1: to the psychology of white people. Also, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like, how yeah, like you just this rich
Speaker 1: dude hires this poor dude. Right, so now the poor
Speaker 1: dude feel like, oh I'm a little more important now,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. But like fam you, he
Speaker 1: don't dead man, don't respect you. That man don't love you.
Speaker 1: I will make you think he don't like you. Want
Speaker 1: you us, you want of us, fool. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. He's throwing your chump change to do a
Speaker 1: ship job that he think he better people. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna oppress you so you can turn around and oppress
Speaker 1: somebody else because the reality is I'm better than you.
Speaker 1: And it's just like like it's scrambles, It just it
Speaker 1: just it's turned your brain to a pretzel. Just just
Speaker 1: does I'm not a not a fan. I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: on record about that taking a boat stance. Yes, And
Speaker 1: I'm a fan of you two I the band and
Speaker 1: the two people I'm looking at. I am a fan
Speaker 1: of y'all, all right anyway, So um so, yeah, South Carolina,
Speaker 1: let let ladies be in the slave patrols. And I'm
Speaker 1: not sure if they ever actually really did serve in them,
Speaker 1: because they kind of they had the option to pick
Speaker 1: a mail from their family to go in as a substitute.
Speaker 1: So I do think that happened more off and there
Speaker 1: may have been someone in the road with us. I
Speaker 1: I can't tell you, um, but yeah, in you know,
Speaker 1: in some states they were kind of more of like
Speaker 1: an air sat sort of force that was kind of
Speaker 1: cobbled together. In some states they were a professional, paid
Speaker 1: institution that was like really kind of formalized. UM. In
Speaker 1: some states their membership was cold from local militias. So
Speaker 1: you know, they were they were different. They weren't all
Speaker 1: like there weren't a uniform thing, but kind of the
Speaker 1: way they worked over the decades that slavery was, you know,
Speaker 1: a factor in the South. Um, the way they worked
Speaker 1: kind of did become formalized. Now. Historian Sally Hayden's book
Speaker 1: Slave Patrols is probably the most comprehensi of history yet
Speaker 1: written about these the organizations, whatever you wanna call them.
Speaker 1: She argues that in most cases, slave patrols consisted of
Speaker 1: members of all social classes. White people were more or
Speaker 1: less unified in their obligation to suppress the black population
Speaker 1: and thus guarantee white supremacy. One piece of evidence Hayden
Speaker 1: or Hadden sorry um sites to support this is an
Speaker 1: eighteen forty five letter from a former South Carolina governor
Speaker 1: to a visiting English abolitionist. Quote, with us, every citizen
Speaker 1: is concerned in the maintenance of order and in promoting
Speaker 1: honesty and industry among those of the lowest class who
Speaker 1: are our slaves, and our habitual vigilance, re understanding armies,
Speaker 1: whether if soldiers or policemen entirely unnecessary, small guards in
Speaker 1: our cities and occasional patrols in the country ensure us
Speaker 1: a repose and security known nowhere else. Yeah, that's how
Speaker 1: this that's how this governor felt, or at least that's
Speaker 1: what he wanted. And again he's talking to an abolitionist
Speaker 1: from England here. So this is kind of the propaganda
Speaker 1: spend of the slave patrols. People have to have an
Speaker 1: army or police because our only danger is from these
Speaker 1: black people, right, Like that's what he's saying. Yeah, that's wow. Yeah, interesting,
Speaker 1: it's a brain pretzel man, Yeah, sure is. Yeah. So again,
Speaker 1: in all states, slave patrols did the same basic work,
Speaker 1: which included enforcing the curfew that slaves lived under. Checking,
Speaker 1: which is talking about curfews, yeah, curfew, Yeah, checking traveling
Speaker 1: slaves for permission passes, breaking up unlawful assemblies of slaves,
Speaker 1: and of course searching for weapons. Just okay, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: need you to I'm gonna need you to define your
Speaker 1: terms here, you know overseers, Like, what do you mean
Speaker 1: by unlawful gathering? Yeah? This ain't my house, this ain't
Speaker 1: my land, I'm not even my own it would I
Speaker 1: would tell me what I mean? What do you get?
Speaker 1: Where do you want us to stand? Where do you
Speaker 1: want us to stand so that you don't feel scared? Yeah?
Speaker 1: That really is what it like comes down to, like
Speaker 1: where where do we what? What can we do to
Speaker 1: not scare you? Do you want to just like turn
Speaker 1: off after we're done farming? Like what do you like? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: then then if that's the case, you should have just
Speaker 1: hired animals. Yeah you know what I'm saying, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's how they felt, Yes exactly, Yeah, yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1: Historian Sally Hayden writes in her book Slave Patrols quote
Speaker 1: the history of police work in the South grows out
Speaker 1: of this early fascination by white patrollers with what African
Speaker 1: American slaves were doing. Most law enforcement was, by definition,
Speaker 1: white patrolmen watching, catching, or beating black slaves. And I
Speaker 1: do find that really interesting because that's a through line
Speaker 1: right up to today, this destination stopped. Yeah yeah, And
Speaker 1: I like what she describes that this fascination with what
Speaker 1: African Americans were doing right, Like that's what the the
Speaker 1: origin of policing in the South. Have you heard of
Speaker 1: the Have you heard of the phrase like it's it's in,
Speaker 1: It's in like feminism also, but the phrase the male gaze? Yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so like in the same same thing, and like black
Speaker 1: activism spaces where it's like the white gays just like
Speaker 1: what are you looking at all the damn time? Like,
Speaker 1: good lord, just make something up yourself, like like just
Speaker 1: can you go do something like you know, I think
Speaker 1: you said in one of your one of the episodes
Speaker 1: because I am an actual fan listeners, I listened to
Speaker 1: the show like that you were just like if we
Speaker 1: could just give just like white kids some cosplay, that's
Speaker 1: like you're allowed to just like shoot things into an
Speaker 1: open space, and you know what I'm saying, like that
Speaker 1: maybe you wouldn't just be so worried about like what
Speaker 1: I'm doing right now, you know. Yeah, Like that's that's
Speaker 1: I do think Warida, which is you know, our plan
Speaker 1: to wall off Florida, turning into a free fire zone
Speaker 1: for just as long as the war yea, as long
Speaker 1: as we like cover like Miami. Yeah, we keep Mimi.
Speaker 1: We can keep Mi Miami. Yeah, yeah, we have to.
Speaker 1: We have to protect Orlando real quick so that I
Speaker 1: can watch the NBA playoffs. All right, Well we're rapidly
Speaker 1: chiseling away. This is not fun, man, Orlando's too far inland. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well we'll find a war state, we you know, figure
Speaker 1: it out. Maybe the Panhandle. Can we go like the
Speaker 1: Texas Panhandle? Y? Nobody likes that. Nobody likes it. Turn
Speaker 1: Abilene into a free fire zone. Why is Evelene a
Speaker 1: city anywhere? We don't need to be a city here. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: i'd apologize to the Abilene listeners, but there's no one
Speaker 1: listening from Abilene. Or you're in Dallas now, could you
Speaker 1: realize Abilene shouldn't exist. Abelene the place where you will
Speaker 1: absolutely get pulled over if you drive through, just because
Speaker 1: there's nothing else for the constant, nothing else to do. Abilene.
Speaker 1: Where as soon as you're eighteen, we'll see you later. Yeah,
Speaker 1: get out of just your leaving so the violence meeted
Speaker 1: out by slave patrols was neither random nor disorganized. Slave
Speaker 1: patrollers had the right to detain and deterrogate and search
Speaker 1: slave quarters, that were allowed to seize property at will um,
Speaker 1: which was you could see as kind of an early
Speaker 1: form of civil asset forfeiture. They also had the right
Speaker 1: to punish black people on the spot for infractions of
Speaker 1: slave laws. Now, physical punishment could be dealt out via firearms,
Speaker 1: but was usually dealt out by what we're called either
Speaker 1: negro whips or negro dogs. And I probably don't need
Speaker 1: to explain what negro dogs were, but they they're they're
Speaker 1: large bloodhounds that patrollers used both to track down slaves
Speaker 1: and to horribly name them. Um. And and that is
Speaker 1: the term that that historians used for these is negro dogs,
Speaker 1: because that's what they were called by. Yeah. Um. So
Speaker 1: we're talking mostly about slave patrols, and there's there's a
Speaker 1: lot of other areas I could get into detail, and
Speaker 1: I just don't have the time too. But I should
Speaker 1: note here that slave patrols were not entirely the first
Speaker 1: thing kind of like slave patrols to exist in the
Speaker 1: United States, even before slavery was really common in the
Speaker 1: United States U S settlers in New England appointed Indian
Speaker 1: constables whose job was the police native Americans, often by
Speaker 1: violent terror. Um And it's worth noting that the St.
Speaker 1: Louis Police, who we are we'll be talking about a
Speaker 1: bit at the interior, were formed both as a slave
Speaker 1: patrol and as a patrol to defend white people against
Speaker 1: Native Americans. So that is a big factor in a
Speaker 1: lot of this too. You know, some of these areas,
Speaker 1: the native populations kind of had gotten exterminated or pushed
Speaker 1: out by the time things formalized. But in a number
Speaker 1: of particularly more quote unquote frontier places, slave patrols also
Speaker 1: did a lot of violence against Native Americans, and that
Speaker 1: is an important aspect of this. And even in the North,
Speaker 1: where slave patrols weren't a thing, there were you know,
Speaker 1: groups of vigilantes, well not quite vigilantes, because they were
Speaker 1: sort of part of the government who whose job was
Speaker 1: to like, you know, do violence to Native people. Um.
Speaker 1: So that is a factor in all this as well.
Speaker 1: Um So, yeah, if we want to be perfectly accurate
Speaker 1: the cases less as it's made on Twitter that US
Speaker 1: police started as slave patrols and more that US police
Speaker 1: started as a series of armed groups whose central purpose
Speaker 1: was to protect white people from non white people via violence.
Speaker 1: That that would be Yeah, that that's that that Yeah,
Speaker 1: that gets your your critical race theory juices going the
Speaker 1: intersectionality of of oppression from the police like it ain't Look, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're coming for you too. That's always been That's always
Speaker 1: been my answer. Look, you're chilling, They're coming for you too. Ip.
Speaker 1: You know. So the institution of slave patrols evolved and
Speaker 1: formalized over time. And for a look at how that worked,
Speaker 1: I think it'll be used for us to zoom in
Speaker 1: on the case of my home state, Missouri. Now, Missouri
Speaker 1: entered the Union in eighteen twenty one as a slave state,
Speaker 1: and racism was obviously baked into the new policy from
Speaker 1: the very beginning. In eight the new state passed a
Speaker 1: law banning any quote free negro or mulatto from coming
Speaker 1: into the state under any pretext whatsoever. Um which Oregon
Speaker 1: had a pretty similar but partial rule after the Civil War.
Speaker 1: So like, yeah, how racist Oregon started out as um
Speaker 1: is also the year that Missouri established its very first
Speaker 1: slave patrols. And I'm going to quote now from a
Speaker 1: paper by more House College Professor Larry Sproule quote. By
Speaker 1: eighteen forty five, these patrols had permission to administer from
Speaker 1: ten to thirty lashes to slaves found strolling about from
Speaker 1: one plantation to another without pass from his master, mistress
Speaker 1: or overseer or strolling about. Yeah, you can't go for
Speaker 1: no walk? What's wrong with you? And you could just
Speaker 1: as what you just said. It's like, oh, no, I
Speaker 1: don't have a like I'm free, I don't have a master. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well you ain't got no letter from your master. No, s,
Speaker 1: you're not listening to me. I don't have a master.
Speaker 1: You're breaking the law. Well then you don't belong in
Speaker 1: this state. Yea, yep, alright, I guess. Yeah. So Missouri
Speaker 1: slave patrols worked at least twelve hours a month, but
Speaker 1: also you know, some people worked a lot more, and
Speaker 1: members received about twenty five cents per hour. Now I
Speaker 1: should note here that the patrols weren't just randomly accosting
Speaker 1: individual slaves. Enslaved humans in the United States resisted their
Speaker 1: situation in a variety of ways, um and so there
Speaker 1: were often like, you know, minor little uprisings that slave
Speaker 1: patrols were like working to put down. So slaves would
Speaker 1: often take crops and livestock from from their masters. They
Speaker 1: would burn fields and even plantation houses. They would poison
Speaker 1: their masters, and they would attempt uprisings. Um and so.
Speaker 1: Like the Spartan cryptia, most of the work of slave
Speaker 1: patrols was broadly what we would call counterinsurgency today. In
Speaker 1: many rural counties in Missouri, um enslaved black persons where
Speaker 1: the majority of people and whites were well aware that
Speaker 1: they had, you know, kind of a tiger by the tail.
Speaker 1: Sprul continues quote. Southern whites developed a collective conscience and
Speaker 1: political consensus to tightly control blacks within their midst. Slave
Speaker 1: policing demanded accountability for every captive's whereabouts. A missing slave
Speaker 1: was caused for grave concern, often causing panic. Fear of
Speaker 1: insurrection made unauthorized blacks on roads or in the public
Speaker 1: square hazardous. Racial features made blacks visible, suspect and vulnerable
Speaker 1: to slave patrollers looking to catch up inward out of
Speaker 1: his place without a pass. Just as blackness was the
Speaker 1: stigmatized identification of bondsman, it also singled them out as
Speaker 1: suspects and criminals. An enslaved Africans phenotype marked them as
Speaker 1: a habitual dangerous class, requiring relentless supervision and policing to
Speaker 1: guarantee their submission. Yeah, that also sounds familiar. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: sounds familiar. And we'll be talking the term dangerous class
Speaker 1: is used constantly by historians who study policing in the
Speaker 1: United States. That we will be talking a lot about
Speaker 1: the idea of dangerous classes. Yeah, it's an important concept.
Speaker 1: You don't realize, like how that like that that just
Speaker 1: poisonous stain like just that that that weird DNA strand
Speaker 1: just like stayed with us to the point to where
Speaker 1: you know, you're I know you're gonna get to it later.
Speaker 1: But like you know, black men, black boys being treated
Speaker 1: like adults when your kids because you already think we're
Speaker 1: more dangerous. In your first gun I was the first
Speaker 1: time cop pulled a gun on me. I was fourteen,
Speaker 1: and I was like I didn't grown on facial hair,
Speaker 1: I still had a squeaky voice. It just was terrified.
Speaker 1: He was talking to me like I was so hard
Speaker 1: and criminal, and I'm like, dog, I'm a freshman. I'm
Speaker 1: a freshman in high school. Like I'm scared that I'm
Speaker 1: like my Mom's gonna be pissed because I'm home late.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm scared about. My mom gonna be piste
Speaker 1: that I was supposed to be home at three five.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get home at four fifteen. She gonna be like,
Speaker 1: where the hell are you? You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: So like I'm I'm tearing and he's talking to me
Speaker 1: like I know, I don't even know the words he's saying.
Speaker 1: It's because you already see us already as dangerous. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and yeah this is this is like how that kind
Speaker 1: of steps and evolves and how that ball gets rolling
Speaker 1: to the boulder it is today. Um yeah, So for
Speaker 1: kind of another another look at how people saw the
Speaker 1: slave patrols in that time, UM, I want to go
Speaker 1: to a guy named Basil Hall. He was a nineteenth
Speaker 1: century English traveler and author. He visited the American South
Speaker 1: in eighteen twenty nine and he wound up in Richmond, Virginia.
Speaker 1: His recollection of how slave patrols were explained to him
Speaker 1: gives us another insight into how white people talked about
Speaker 1: this institution to other white people, which I think is compelling.
Speaker 1: Quote in walking around, my eyes were struck with the
Speaker 1: unusual site of a sentinel marching with his musket, my
Speaker 1: companion said, and his companion as a local American Southerner,
Speaker 1: white Southerner, obviously, it is necessary to have a small
Speaker 1: guard always under arms. It is the consequence of the
Speaker 1: nature of our colored population. But it has done more
Speaker 1: as a preventative check than anything else. It keeps all
Speaker 1: thoughts of insurrection out of the heads of the slaves,
Speaker 1: and so gives confidence to those persons amongst us who
Speaker 1: may be timorous. But in reality there is no cause
Speaker 1: for alarm. The Blacks have become more and more sensible
Speaker 1: every day of their want of power. After further inquiry,
Speaker 1: Hall noted, I learned that there was in all these
Speaker 1: places in towns a vigorous and active police, whose rule
Speaker 1: is that no negro, for example, is allowed to be
Speaker 1: out of doors after sunset without a pass from his master,
Speaker 1: ex ding the nature of his errand if during his
Speaker 1: absence from home he'd be found wandering from the proper
Speaker 1: line of his message, he is speedily taken up and
Speaker 1: corrected accordingly. So that's a lot of that's interesting, like
Speaker 1: the idea that, like the police are here not just
Speaker 1: to keep keep black people in line, but so that
Speaker 1: frightened white people don't get scared of black people. That's
Speaker 1: an interesting part to me. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good
Speaker 1: that yeah, that layer yeah yeah, man, yeah, yeah, it's here.
Speaker 1: We're here for Karen's too. Yeah, exactly. You can always
Speaker 1: call us, you can always call the cops here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's exactly what's going on here. So slaves patrols were
Speaker 1: generally limited to pursuing escaped slaves within their own counties.
Speaker 1: When a slave or a group of slaves was fortunate
Speaker 1: enough to be able to move further away from wherever
Speaker 1: they were being held, bounty hunters, like slave bounty hunters,
Speaker 1: generally took on the job of attempting to track these
Speaker 1: slaves down. And these men were allowed across state lines
Speaker 1: and they're work was supported by the Fugitive Slave Act,
Speaker 1: which was passed in eighteen fifty is part of a
Speaker 1: compromise to try and avoid a civil war. The law
Speaker 1: mandated that all escaped slaves, if captured, be returned to
Speaker 1: their masters, even if those slaves had escaped to a
Speaker 1: free state. Abolitionists called this the Bloodhound Bill, after the
Speaker 1: dogs that bounty hunters and slave patrollers used to track
Speaker 1: down slaves. Solomon Northrop, author of the memoire Twelve Years
Speaker 1: a Slave, gave one account of what it was like
Speaker 1: to watch patrollers with dogs hunt down an enslaved black person.
Speaker 1: In this case, it was not even an escaped slave,
Speaker 1: but merely an individual who had broken his curfew. Quote.
Speaker 1: One slave fled before one of these companies, thinking he
Speaker 1: could reach his cabin before they could overtake him. But
Speaker 1: one of their dogs, a great ravenous hound, gripped him
Speaker 1: by the leg and held him fast. The patrollers whipped
Speaker 1: him severely. Yeah, I I want to be careful. I
Speaker 1: don't want to like draw because it's it does a
Speaker 1: disservice to like the horrific suffering of black people in
Speaker 1: this period of time and today to to draw like
Speaker 1: too many direct comparisons to some of the stuff happening now.
Speaker 1: But it's not. I don't think we can go without
Speaker 1: entirely mentioning it that, like probably a lot of people
Speaker 1: listening right now had violence done to them by police
Speaker 1: recently for breaking curfew. Like that is interesting to me,
Speaker 1: Like the the the o session with curfew is a
Speaker 1: through line, right, But like if you're out when you're
Speaker 1: not allowed to. We get to funk you up, like yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's funny, Like I was talking with you know,
Speaker 1: some of my friends, uh, my wife, even my daughter.
Speaker 1: My daughter is old enough now to like go to protests,
Speaker 1: go to protests with us, and you know, and kind
Speaker 1: of like kind of do our own thing and just
Speaker 1: us at this point being like, okay, dude, are you serious.
Speaker 1: Like at California, we just kept getting the alerts, like
Speaker 1: four o'clock, five o'clock, six o'clock, it just kept you
Speaker 1: kept getting Amber alerted the thing, and it's like, dude, okay,
Speaker 1: bro get it together all right and just talk to
Speaker 1: us later. But it's kind of like we we're kind
Speaker 1: of like, is this a joke? Man? Like, Okay, so
Speaker 1: it's a thousand dollar fine, Okay, throw me in the pattiwagon.
Speaker 1: Thousand dollars fine, it's fine. You know what I'm saying. Um,
Speaker 1: maybe you're gonna rough me up a little bit, but
Speaker 1: I'm black, I'm from Los Angeles. You've been roughing me
Speaker 1: up my whole life, you know what I'm saying. So
Speaker 1: for us, we were kind of like, it's kind of
Speaker 1: it's kind of laughable. And then you go back to like, no,
Speaker 1: it wasn't always laughable. Yeah, you know, like this was terror. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this was absolutely terror and I think they would have
Speaker 1: It's interesting that it is talked about slave patrols is
Speaker 1: like a counterinsurgency, but like the way they counter the
Speaker 1: insurgency was by being terrorists terrorists. Yeah, and that's the
Speaker 1: first police departments. Yeah. So Spruit's article, which we've been
Speaker 1: quoting from, includes a number of other firsthand accounts by
Speaker 1: enslaved persons of the use of these these dogs, you know,
Speaker 1: these bloodhounds, negro dogs. Um. Most of these accounts were
Speaker 1: taken down during the Great Depression. Which is one of
Speaker 1: the coolest things they did during the New Deal is
Speaker 1: the FDR administration send a bunch of people out to
Speaker 1: interview former slaves who are now at that point quite old.
Speaker 1: But that's where we get a lot of ore, a
Speaker 1: lot of our like kind of formal stories of what
Speaker 1: it was like to be an enslaved person this period.
Speaker 1: So thank you the New Deal for that particular was
Speaker 1: a good call. Um. So one of these people who
Speaker 1: has interviewed noted, quote, in every district they had about
Speaker 1: twelve men they call patrollers. They write up and down
Speaker 1: and round looking for inwards without passes. When slaves run away,
Speaker 1: they always put the bloodhounds on the tracks. They had
Speaker 1: the dogs trained to keep their teeth out of you
Speaker 1: till they hold them up to bring you down. Then
Speaker 1: the dogs would go at your throat and they'd tear
Speaker 1: you to pieces too. After a slave was caught, he
Speaker 1: was brung home and put in chains. M yeah, so
Speaker 1: we also have recollections of slave patrol members of their
Speaker 1: use of dogs. One of these guys, and who was
Speaker 1: a slave patroller in Louisiana in eighteen fifty seven, described
Speaker 1: his method of work thus, Lee quote, If I can
Speaker 1: catch a cust runaway in word without killing him, very good. Though.
Speaker 1: I generally let the hounds punish him a little, and
Speaker 1: sometimes give him a load of squirrel shot, which is
Speaker 1: like a light shotgunload. If mild measures like these do
Speaker 1: not suffice, I use harsher punishment. The moment the hounds
Speaker 1: come close, they utter a hideous and mournful howl Heaven,
Speaker 1: pity the poor. And then he uses the inn word again.
Speaker 1: So yeah, not a not a good dude. I hope
Speaker 1: he didn't make it out of that Civil war. Um. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hope that guy got Gettysburg. Yeah, I hope he
Speaker 1: met Sherman or Grant or someone. Yeah, I'm about to
Speaker 1: get Hissburg this transition. Yeah, let's get Easburg. These ads
Speaker 1: like pickets. I don't know, just run as I call
Speaker 1: the Union Hall as his male life and death. I
Speaker 1: think these people are planning to kill Dr King. On
Speaker 1: April four, Dr Martin Luther King was shot and killed
Speaker 1: in Memphis. A petty criminal named James Earl Ray was arrested.
Speaker 1: He played aulty to the crime and spent the rest
Speaker 1: of his life in prison. Case closed right, James hil
Speaker 1: Ray was upon for the official story. The authorities would
Speaker 1: parade all we found a gun the James L. Ray
Speaker 1: board in Birmingham that killed Dr King. Except it wasn't
Speaker 1: the gun that killed Dr. King. One of the problems
Speaker 1: that came out when I got the Ray case was
Speaker 1: that some of the evidence, as far as I was concerned,
Speaker 1: did not match the circumstances. This is the MLK tapes.
Speaker 1: The first episodes are available now. Listen on the I
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Speaker 1: play podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. So we're back, uh,
Speaker 1: and we're talking about the use of dogs to enforce
Speaker 1: a regime based in terrorism UM otherwise known as the
Speaker 1: American South. That's kind of what it was, guys. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the horrible wounds left by these these dogs fulfilled
Speaker 1: the dual purpose they served as a reminder of white
Speaker 1: supremacy UM and is an easy way to identify troublesome
Speaker 1: slaves because obviously there's a ton of slaves with horrible
Speaker 1: dog scars and see other black people seeing those scars.
Speaker 1: Both would be like white people have the power because like,
Speaker 1: look at what they're how badly all these people got
Speaker 1: sucked up. And also it was a way for the
Speaker 1: white people to see like that guy, is that guy's trouble?
Speaker 1: Like that was your arrest record? Was the dogstars on
Speaker 1: your face? Yeah? Um, he's the red sports car. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what the teachers. That's what the teachers tell you. You
Speaker 1: You know, you're kind of a red sports car kid. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I decide what the cops is gonna look for you
Speaker 1: because I expect you to be fast, Like yeah, thanks,
Speaker 1: miss Williams, thank you. It's pretty obscure, deep cut like
Speaker 1: but still anyway, no nobody tells white kids stuff like that.
Speaker 1: At least I didn't hear anything, Like you didn't hear
Speaker 1: the red car vet or the red sports car story.
Speaker 1: I mean I got told as a as a young adult,
Speaker 1: I got told not to buy a red car because
Speaker 1: the police, uh cite them for speeding more often. But
Speaker 1: like that that was my thing. Yeah, and then well
Speaker 1: that's there. It is. Yeah, yeah, it is weird that
Speaker 1: we tell people in general like don't stand out, or
Speaker 1: the yeah, I don't know, I don't want to be leaders,
Speaker 1: don't stand out. So um. By the onset of the
Speaker 1: Civil War, bloodhounds had grown to become the single most
Speaker 1: reliable tool of oppression in the arsenal of Southern whites.
Speaker 1: Like the dogs in particular were like the way in which,
Speaker 1: more than any other tool white people like. I think
Speaker 1: even the lash was used more as like a punishment,
Speaker 1: but like in terms of a tool of actual oppression,
Speaker 1: like the dogs were really like the fucking thing. Um.
Speaker 1: And when the Civil War started, the organized and militantmen
Speaker 1: of the slave patrols were all too happy to turn
Speaker 1: their counterinsurgency skills to use in a real war. One
Speaker 1: Union field officers scouting through rebel lands in eighteen sixty
Speaker 1: two reported hearing the constant barking of hounds, which would
Speaker 1: have been turned towards a new use searching for Union infiltraders.
Speaker 1: This officer described dogs as the detective officers of slavery's police.
Speaker 1: Confederate generals also deployed bloodhounds on the front line. Black
Speaker 1: Union soldiers were considered fugitives, eaves in arms and it
Speaker 1: was seen as only logical that these Negro dogs could
Speaker 1: be used to break their will and send them fleeing
Speaker 1: from battle. You know that these Southern generals were like,
Speaker 1: they're so scared of these dogs. If we use them
Speaker 1: against these new black military units, it'll make them all
Speaker 1: run away, right Like, clearly they these guys won't be
Speaker 1: able to handle, you know, standing up to dogs in combat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this was one of many misconceptions that the things we're
Speaker 1: going to go in that war. On October eighteen sixty two,
Speaker 1: the Battle of Pocataligo Bridge marked the first time Black
Speaker 1: soldiers came face to face with the Negro dogs of
Speaker 1: slave patrols in open combat. The black soldiers were the
Speaker 1: men of the first South Carolina Colored Regiments, and their
Speaker 1: field reports stated that the men met these dogs with bayonets,
Speaker 1: killed four or five of their old tormentors with great relish.
Speaker 1: And I'm not normally a killing dogs person, but in
Speaker 1: this case it's a good story. Yeah, yeah, just you
Speaker 1: when you and I feel like knowing a little bit
Speaker 1: of your backstory, you'd be so prize when a person
Speaker 1: is like fighting for their life, the amount of bravery
Speaker 1: and adrenaline that you can muster up when you're like I,
Speaker 1: I'm not dying today. Yeah, it's not happening to day,
Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, when you when you don't under
Speaker 1: if you want to estimate that, and you just think
Speaker 1: you you think this dog, you think this dog, Finn,
Speaker 1: stop these men like you think I'm worried about that
Speaker 1: little dog right now. Naw, bro, we got going back.
Speaker 1: We're not going back. We got guns now. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So fighting between Confederate units with slavehounds and Black Union
Speaker 1: units continued throughout the war. In eighteen sixty four, one
Speaker 1: Black soldier wrote a letter back to his wife depicting
Speaker 1: one such batter and was he actually wrote her a poem,
Speaker 1: and it's a pretty cool poem. So I'm gonna read that. Now.
Speaker 1: We met the bloodhounds at the bridge. They ran with
Speaker 1: all their might. It was a glorious sight. We ran
Speaker 1: our bayonets through their backs. We shot them with the gun.
Speaker 1: It was all over with the dogs, and twas most
Speaker 1: glorious fun. In former days, those brutes were used to
Speaker 1: hunt the flying slave. They tracked them through their dismal
Speaker 1: swamps and little quarter gave. But when they tried the
Speaker 1: game of war, we knocked them on the head. We
Speaker 1: shot them quick and ran them through until every hound
Speaker 1: was dead. Oh yeahs bars, yeah, so obviously and um
Speaker 1: spoilers here to the listeners who have not caught up
Speaker 1: to us history past, Like eighteen sixty four, the Confederacy
Speaker 1: didn't win, ant lost. I'll tell you one of the
Speaker 1: I I got to watch from a distance someone in
Speaker 1: my neighborhood in Portland have a real like like growth moment.
Speaker 1: So there's this, you know, the General Lee, the car
Speaker 1: from the Hazard that was like the Confederate flag on
Speaker 1: the hood. I had a little hot wheels one yeah sure, yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: There's a guy who lives not far from me who
Speaker 1: has like a who has that car, like a perfect
Speaker 1: replica of the Generally, and it had the Confederate flag
Speaker 1: on it. And for the first few months I lived there,
Speaker 1: I would see him driving through this eats with his
Speaker 1: big Confederate flag on his general lead. And about to
Speaker 1: three months ago I saw him driving his car but
Speaker 1: he painted over the Confederate flag and it was just orange.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you had you had you, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you had a little moment. Good for you. He grew
Speaker 1: a bit. Yes see, that's what I mean by the Northwest,
Speaker 1: specificallymportant as a tale of two cities, because I'm like,
Speaker 1: there's this just bastion of like left progressive like freedom
Speaker 1: fighting yahto and like you know, tiger Claw damn like
Speaker 1: hard hard ciders at the police, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And then and then there's the guy with the right
Speaker 1: in my life, my life. It's a complicated place, yes,
Speaker 1: and then the right guy with the robberty league, with
Speaker 1: the with the general league. Like it's just it's two
Speaker 1: cities in one place. Some of the greatest coffee in
Speaker 1: the world, quote solid beer quote me, some of the
Speaker 1: most amazing beer. And then there's like and then there's Salem.
Speaker 1: There's Salem. How it happened? Yeah yeah, so um yeah.
Speaker 1: The Confederacy lost the war, and by eighteen sixty five,
Speaker 1: both the dream of Southern independence and slavery were dead.
Speaker 1: White supremacy, though did not die. White people in the
Speaker 1: former Confederate States wasted no time in turning the institutions
Speaker 1: of the slave patrols into formal police departments. In eighteen
Speaker 1: sixty five, the editor of the Lynchburg Virginian noted, which
Speaker 1: was the newspaper noted that quote stringent police regulations may
Speaker 1: be necessary to keep Friedman from over burdening the towns
Speaker 1: and depleting the agricultural regions of labor. The civil authority
Speaker 1: should also be fully empowered to protect the community from
Speaker 1: this new imposition. The magistrates and municipal officers everywhere should
Speaker 1: be permitted to hold a rod into aram over these
Speaker 1: wandering idle creatures. Nothing short of the most efficient police
Speaker 1: system will prevent strolling, vagrancy, theft, and other destruction of
Speaker 1: our industrial system. So that's pretty clear. That's pretty great.
Speaker 1: It's the it's the like, it's the moment. Like, so
Speaker 1: the Chappelle Show years ago had a skit where he
Speaker 1: depicted the day like the postman comes with the letter
Speaker 1: that the slaves are free, right, Like it's one of
Speaker 1: the greatest skits, and they're just and he's about to
Speaker 1: whoop this whip this guy. Whipped this guy, whip this guy.
Speaker 1: Then the postman walks up and he goes, well, apparently,
Speaker 1: apparently you guys are free, and it just starts like
Speaker 1: looking around at all the other slaves around him, and
Speaker 1: they're like he's like, uh hey, sorry about that. A
Speaker 1: second ago, man, you know, just like, so what do
Speaker 1: you do? Like what exactly? So They're like, we bet it,
Speaker 1: you know, we bet it. We better get in some
Speaker 1: protection because those last hundred years were kind of shipped
Speaker 1: to them. You know, Oh, ship, what if they treat
Speaker 1: us even a little bit as bad as Yeah. In
Speaker 1: her books Slave Patrols, Hayden notes quote policemen in southern
Speaker 1: towns continued to carry out those aspects of urban slave
Speaker 1: patrolling that seemed race neutral, but in reality were applied selectively.
Speaker 1: Police saw that nightly curfews and vagrancy laws kept blacks
Speaker 1: off city streets, just as patrollers had done in colonial
Speaker 1: and anti bellum times. In the post war South, police
Speaker 1: were seen as the single most important method of maintaining
Speaker 1: a system of, in the words of one prominent Virginia clergyman,
Speaker 1: liberty for the white man, slavery for the inward, so
Speaker 1: long as the white man is able to hold him
Speaker 1: m M exactly now. In the textbook Policing by North
Speaker 1: Dakota States Caro Archbold, published by Sage Press, Uh it
Speaker 1: gets like that text book gives a rundown of how
Speaker 1: slave patrollers transitioned into policing freed blacks. In the post
Speaker 1: war period, and I'm gonna quote from that next. During
Speaker 1: early reconstruction, several groups merged with what was formerly known
Speaker 1: as slave patrols to maintain order over African American citizens.
Speaker 1: Groups such as the federal military, the State Militia, and
Speaker 1: the ku Klux Klan took over the responsibilities of earlier
Speaker 1: slave patrols and were known to be even more violent
Speaker 1: than their predecessors. Over time, these groups began to resemble
Speaker 1: and operate similar to some of the newly established police
Speaker 1: departments in the United States. In fact, David Barlow and
Speaker 1: Melissa Barlow note that by eighteen thirty seven, the Charleston
Speaker 1: Police Department had a hundred officers and the primary function
Speaker 1: of this organization was slave patrol. These officers regulated the
Speaker 1: movements of slaves and free blacks, checking documents and forcing
Speaker 1: slave codes, guarding against slave revolts, and catching runaway slaves.
Speaker 1: Scholars and historians assert that the transition from slave patrols
Speaker 1: to publicly funded police agencies was seamless in the southern
Speaker 1: region of the United States. So they just took these
Speaker 1: slave patrols. The war's over, now, your cops. That's literally
Speaker 1: how it went. Yeah, Now that's not every obviously, not
Speaker 1: every police part from the South, because like a lot
Speaker 1: of cities and towns that are in the South now
Speaker 1: and have police didn't exist back then. But like, for example,
Speaker 1: the St. Louis Police started as a slave patrol. The
Speaker 1: the St. Louis Police Department that existed to day as
Speaker 1: a slave patrol. Yes, the current St. Louis Police have
Speaker 1: their origins as a slave patrol. Yeah. So a number
Speaker 1: of the St. Louis Police Department's first officers were former
Speaker 1: bounty hunters and slave patrollers, and they brought to their
Speaker 1: new job their old tactics, most specifically their old tactic
Speaker 1: of using dogs to torture and terrify black people. And
Speaker 1: here's where things get real, real, real angry making, because
Speaker 1: the use of Negro dogs continues to this moment right
Speaker 1: now in present day St. Louis. Oh my god, yeah,
Speaker 1: talk to huh, I said, talk to me, Nelly stomping
Speaker 1: into Air Force ones. In two thousand fourteen, the murder
Speaker 1: of Michael Brown by a Ferguson St. Louis police officer
Speaker 1: prompted an uprising by the city's black population. And people
Speaker 1: are broadly familiar with us and this was suppressed with
Speaker 1: extreme violence. But the whole affair forced the Department of
Speaker 1: Justice to conduct and publish an expansive report on the
Speaker 1: Ferguson Police Department's behavior. This report concluded that, quote, the
Speaker 1: Ferguson Police Department engages in a pattern of deploying canines
Speaker 1: to bite individuals when the articulated facts do not justify
Speaker 1: the significant use of force, leaving serious puncture wounds to
Speaker 1: non violent offenders, some of them children. Now, the report
Speaker 1: went on to note that Ferguson police were allowed to
Speaker 1: sick dogs on suspects when any crime, not just a
Speaker 1: felony or violent crime, has been committed. This permissiveness, combined
Speaker 1: with the absence of meaningful supervisory review and an apparent
Speaker 1: tendency to overstate the threat based on race, has resulted
Speaker 1: in avoidable dog bites to low level offenders. And the
Speaker 1: d J report kind of uses a little bit of
Speaker 1: weasel language on this fact. But one of the things
Speaker 1: that revealed is that one hundred percent of the people
Speaker 1: maimed by Ferguson police dogs were black. See this, like,
Speaker 1: how what am I trying to say? Now? What gets
Speaker 1: me right? What gets under my skin? In discussions of
Speaker 1: this is that it sounds so preposterous that people say,
Speaker 1: we're alarmists, we're just making this stuff up. You know,
Speaker 1: that was a long time ago. It's all in your head,
Speaker 1: and it's and you're like, so after a while, you
Speaker 1: actually start thinking, you know, maybe I am crazy, maybe
Speaker 1: it is in my head. And then you're just like
Speaker 1: and then you look at your other your other black friends,
Speaker 1: and you like, am I tripping or did this happen?
Speaker 1: And they're like, no, it kind of happened to me too.
Speaker 1: And then you're like, how about the other side of
Speaker 1: the country. Did it happen to y'all too? And you're
Speaker 1: just like yeah. So then when you and then when
Speaker 1: the report comes out, you're just like, guys, like, I'm
Speaker 1: telling you I'm not crazy. I'm telling you this is happening,
Speaker 1: you know, And I still got to convince you. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, what do you what do many receipts do
Speaker 1: you need? And it it didn't convince it. Fifteen this
Speaker 1: comes out and it's another like people seem more convinced
Speaker 1: now after everything that's happened, but like it took like
Speaker 1: five years after this report came out, and there was really,
Speaker 1: you know, there was an upper or the murder of
Speaker 1: Michael Brown obviously, um, but there was the fucking the
Speaker 1: fact that the fact that a police department formed out
Speaker 1: of a slave patrol that used dogs too maim black
Speaker 1: people in order to terrorize them was two hundred years
Speaker 1: later using dogs to nime only black people in order
Speaker 1: to tear the fact that that was happening like that,
Speaker 1: it was like, yeah, and then it was out of
Speaker 1: the zeit geist. And then it was out of the
Speaker 1: ze guist that I was gonna say. Then it's gone
Speaker 1: out of the zi guys, and it's and that's the
Speaker 1: other thing that's so hard about like and im and
Speaker 1: I'm critiquing myself period. I'm taking all of us period.
Speaker 1: Is like when when the cameras leave, Like how hard
Speaker 1: it is to keep the energy up to say, look, listen,
Speaker 1: I know it's a high. It was a high, like
Speaker 1: you know, high profile case. But it's not done, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. And now that it's back, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's a year later, y'all forgot about my ground because
Speaker 1: you onto the next hashtag. But I'm like, no, seriously,
Speaker 1: we didn't make this up. Like here's the evidence, Like
Speaker 1: I'm telling you that's what happened, and it's like how
Speaker 1: it's you. You you find yourself like just exhausted as
Speaker 1: to go, Like I just no matter how many receipts
Speaker 1: I give you, like you know what I'm saying, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: speaking of receipts, I do feel like I need to
Speaker 1: quote from the New Yorker here and there. They did
Speaker 1: do a pretty good article kind of digging into the
Speaker 1: use of these these dogs. So I do want to
Speaker 1: like credit them for that. They didn't look away. They
Speaker 1: you know, they put out an article which isn't nothing
Speaker 1: um better than not? Yeah right, like yeah. In one account,
Speaker 1: a dog was sent after an unarmed sixteen year old
Speaker 1: who was also tazered. The electric shock of that weapon
Speaker 1: partially paralyzed as a person. If that were to happen
Speaker 1: while a dog was tearing at your arms and legs,
Speaker 1: all you could do would be to watch an immobilized horror.
Speaker 1: Another case involved four police officers, including a canine handler,
Speaker 1: trapping an unarmed fourteen year old in an abandoned basement.
Speaker 1: The crime tres passing. The Department of Justice report recounts
Speaker 1: what the boy says happened. To him. When he saw
Speaker 1: the dog at the top of the steps, he turned
Speaker 1: to run, but the dog quickly bit him on the
Speaker 1: ankle and then the thigh, causing him to fall to
Speaker 1: the floor. The dog was about to bite his face
Speaker 1: or neck, but instead got his left arm, which the
Speaker 1: boy had raised to protect himself. FPD officers struck him
Speaker 1: while he was on the ground, one of them putting
Speaker 1: a boot on the side of his head. He recalled,
Speaker 1: the officers laughing about the incident afterward. Ah, the poison blue,
Speaker 1: the boys in blue and the boys in blue. Man, yeah,
Speaker 1: he just Man, it's like how many how many bad
Speaker 1: apples you need before you start like checking the orchard?
Speaker 1: Like yeah, what if the soil is bad? Like how
Speaker 1: nobody's like you keep talking about these yo treat keep
Speaker 1: producing bad fruit like and you keep blaming like some
Speaker 1: wrong with your treat. Man, all these apples are just
Speaker 1: filled with piss, Like what happened? Apples? Why are the
Speaker 1: all the apples would piss? That's just one then why
Speaker 1: Well if it's just why are you putting it in
Speaker 1: a bucket? Where do we keep grew in these apples?
Speaker 1: Why do you keeping there? I mean, we get rid
Speaker 1: of the orchard. It's a bad like it makes sense
Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, yep. So again, the use of Ferguson
Speaker 1: police dogs made very little of a splash when it
Speaker 1: was revealed, even though again a hundred percent of the
Speaker 1: individuals named by Ferguson police dogs were black, and of
Speaker 1: individuals that the Ferguson Police did violence too in general,
Speaker 1: were black. Names of canine officers and their supervisors were
Speaker 1: not revealed in the report. That Department of Justice report
Speaker 1: on the Ferguson p D made one hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: seven corrective recommendations on how the department could fix its
Speaker 1: violent behavior. Only one of those reforms dealt with canine violence,
Speaker 1: suggesting that the police department require on site supervisory approval
Speaker 1: before allowing a canine officer to maim people. It's like
Speaker 1: if a cool I bite this black guy, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to have a dog tear the flesh of
Speaker 1: this fourteen year old? Is that cool? That's all right?
Speaker 1: Glad we put it put this so, as of today,
Speaker 1: Ferguson police still use dogs to control suspects. Most Ferguson
Speaker 1: officers are white. Virtually all the people they arrest and
Speaker 1: detain are black No Ferguson officer has yet been tried
Speaker 1: or fired for using police dogs to brutalize citizens. Professor
Speaker 1: Larry Sprule notes, quote the officer's procedural avoidance of criminal
Speaker 1: liability for death and torture of black citizens was not
Speaker 1: dissimilar to slave patroller's antebellum indemnity for similar violence. Yep.
Speaker 1: In his paper on Negro dogs and the Ferguson Police,
Speaker 1: Professor Sprul sites to other academics Williams and Murphy, who
Speaker 1: wrote a nineteen paper on the transition from slave patrols
Speaker 1: to police departments. Williams and Murphy noted, quote, the legal
Speaker 1: order sustained slavery, segregation, and discrimination from most of our
Speaker 1: nation's history, and the fact that the police were bound
Speaker 1: to uphold that order set a pattern for police behavior
Speaker 1: and attitudes towards minority communities that have persisted until the
Speaker 1: present day. That pattern includes the idea that minorities have
Speaker 1: fewer civil rights, that the task of police is to
Speaker 1: keep them under control, and that the police have little
Speaker 1: responsibility for protecting them from crime within their communities. Oh God,
Speaker 1: there we go. Oh my god. Yep. Maybe plain they
Speaker 1: can throw me one of those one of those white claws.
Speaker 1: There was I missed this rally, but there was apparently
Speaker 1: a rally where some of the anti for kids. Do
Speaker 1: you remember there was that that pepsi ad with Um
Speaker 1: Jenner where she hands a pepsi to a cop. Like
Speaker 1: right after that, add a bunch of those like kids
Speaker 1: showed up at this I think it was a Mayday
Speaker 1: protest with like like crates of pepsi and just started
Speaker 1: chucking them at the cops. I love it. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: oh my god, dude. I mean you know what. I
Speaker 1: give it to the antifa kids. Man, they got sense
Speaker 1: as a humor die like y'all funny, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Yeah, it's it's I you know it. It's
Speaker 1: It's been interesting because like there's all this talk of
Speaker 1: like like Portland has like a big anti fascist sort
Speaker 1: of activist community, but like with all the talk that
Speaker 1: there is with from the president about Antifa at these protests,
Speaker 1: they've really taken a backseat, Like they have not been
Speaker 1: driving the fucking bus here. Yeah, I can tell you
Speaker 1: that much. Um. And it's kind of obvious because I'm
Speaker 1: like in in some ways I feel like a lot
Speaker 1: of the anti fascist dudes, like they gotta they have
Speaker 1: a style. There's like an aesthetic to what they do
Speaker 1: that like, and I know it's a weird way to
Speaker 1: say it, but I feel like I go, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of their flavor, you know. I'm like,
Speaker 1: this ain't that. Yeah, it's just something else, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's like when you see yeah, when you see like
Speaker 1: the graffiti that says like Black's rule, I'm like, black
Speaker 1: man did not write that, know, like that that's ridiculous. Okay.
Speaker 1: The flip side of that was like in Portland on
Speaker 1: two Fridays ago, I think we had um, you know,
Speaker 1: a crowd marched to the Justice Center and then people
Speaker 1: just started sucking it up, like breaking all the windows.
Speaker 1: They lit some fires like and it was one of
Speaker 1: it was very obvious, I think to everyone who knew
Speaker 1: the city, like because this was like the day after
Speaker 1: the Precinct in Minneapolis was burned, and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that Justice Center up, it's going down. Yeah, And there
Speaker 1: was like it was blamed a lot on like like
Speaker 1: white anarchist kids, Like, yeah, there were definitely some of
Speaker 1: those folks doing it, but like it was a pretty
Speaker 1: diverse crowd that sucked up the justice It's not. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, life and history is not so compartmentalized that
Speaker 1: you could just be like this happened, that this happened,
Speaker 1: and that group of people boughten Sales did the thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of folks wanted to get into that justice
Speaker 1: center and yeah, um so properly. That is episode one.
Speaker 1: And again this is you know, the slave Slave, but
Speaker 1: a lot of you know this, I'll much every episode
Speaker 1: is going to deal with racism because it's kind of
Speaker 1: central to policing. But next episode we're gonna be talking
Speaker 1: about sort of policing more in the North and and
Speaker 1: kind of policing against against people we consider white, but
Speaker 1: who at the time the people who controlled the police
Speaker 1: might not necessarily have considered white. You know. That's that's Oh,
Speaker 1: I can't wait for this one because like at some point, man,
Speaker 1: I just feel like, I know, my work's gonna call
Speaker 1: me to do a some sort of deep dive in
Speaker 1: the construction of like pan ethnic terms like black or
Speaker 1: white and what the hell that means, Like, you know,
Speaker 1: even even hearing like the who was the Milo boy?
Speaker 1: What was his name? Milois? Yeah? Whatever his name is
Speaker 1: him talking about like this our country was made for
Speaker 1: the advancement of white men, and I'm like, no, wasn't
Speaker 1: because there was no such thing as white man when
Speaker 1: y'all got here, and you you ain't even you don't
Speaker 1: even what the Irish here that's the are then part
Speaker 1: of the same island for crying out loud, so like
Speaker 1: you're looking at them, you don't think it's still people
Speaker 1: in this world that don't think Italians are white, Like
Speaker 1: I just what the hell are you talking about? You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like, so you don't even know
Speaker 1: what white means, you know? So I love what you're
Speaker 1: gonna go to next because just like you have to
Speaker 1: remember again it's a construct like y'all made. Y'all made
Speaker 1: that up. So we'll talk about that in part two.
Speaker 1: Prop you wanna plug some plugbules before we roll out man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so yeah, everything for me is prop hip Hop uh
Speaker 1: dot com. That's my app mentioned, just all of it.
Speaker 1: PROP hip Hop doing a fun thing on Friday's called
Speaker 1: poor Gami Friday's Right. Basically, just make a make a
Speaker 1: single cup of like pour over coffee with a buddy
Speaker 1: on Instagram and we feature like yeah, and we feature
Speaker 1: like a local roaster, uh from wherever like offer discounts
Speaker 1: and like. And since since this last you know, uprising,
Speaker 1: we've been featuring like coffee roasters you know, owned by
Speaker 1: by persons of color. Um did just support just support
Speaker 1: good coffee, you know what I'm saying. So that's kind
Speaker 1: of a fun thing. I'd i'd plug on this one.
Speaker 1: Since I get to come back three times, I get
Speaker 1: to pick what I'm gonna plug. Yeah, yeah, awesome. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well check that out. Check out prop and his his
Speaker 1: wonderful music on his YouTube channel. Um and uh what
Speaker 1: propaganda people should know if they look for something. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Also you know what, actually I would say, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up. So let me save
Speaker 1: all y'all the d m s you're gonna give me. Okay,
Speaker 1: at some point, I don't already answered the question you
Speaker 1: find at want a personal answer for in one of
Speaker 1: these videos or interviews, so like, so just you know,
Speaker 1: check the YouTube. Yeah, I'm saying, uh, just just it's
Speaker 1: it's probably there. We at some point we've talked about it.
Speaker 1: So I'm just just just go ahead and put that
Speaker 1: out alright, folks. Um, Well we will be back like
Speaker 1: fucking four more times at least to talk about more
Speaker 1: times American police UM and where they came from. So
Speaker 1: I hope everybody enjoys this series, UM, and I hope
Speaker 1: folks pass it along to um friends and family who
Speaker 1: might uh. I think that policing just needs a little
Speaker 1: bit alike. I just gotta like, just gotta like its face,
Speaker 1: and we'll be back. We'll be fine. Like I can't
Speaker 1: go back to it being good. It was always ship
Speaker 1: rethink this thing, you know, and like and and and
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm gonna come back to this a bunch
Speaker 1: of times in this episode, got it, And I'm gonna
Speaker 1: come back to this in a bunch of times. But
Speaker 1: like I hope people are hearing that, like almost not
Speaker 1: almost literally, all of our institutions we just made them up,
Speaker 1: like they're made up, you know what I'm saying, at
Speaker 1: some point in time we made they don't exist in
Speaker 1: nature like we made them up. So if you have
Speaker 1: a bad idea in any other part of your life,
Speaker 1: you stop doing the bad idea and you try to
Speaker 1: make a better one. Yeah, we can. We can have
Speaker 1: a society where like if someone commits murder, there's somebody
Speaker 1: whose job it is to like figure out who did
Speaker 1: that and like make sure they don't get to keep
Speaker 1: doing We we can have that, we don't have We
Speaker 1: can have that without having a dude who feels empowered
Speaker 1: to choke a man for nine minutes. You have to
Speaker 1: haveth You don't have to have both. You mean to
Speaker 1: tell me the thought has never crossed your mind that
Speaker 1: the person next takes care of is homeless guy for loitering,
Speaker 1: who's just by virtue of his existence is breaking it all.
Speaker 1: And the same guy and the same tool needs to
Speaker 1: deal with the acts of murderer. You mean to tell
Speaker 1: me that that takes the same people. Yeah, countries that
Speaker 1: have people who like make sure there aren't drunk drivers
Speaker 1: on the road, and the people who do that job
Speaker 1: don't have guns and don't get to like throw people
Speaker 1: in prison and ruin their lives and search them for
Speaker 1: drugs and plant drugs on them, Like you don't. You
Speaker 1: can have people whose job is like, yeah, we should
Speaker 1: make sure, you know, we should have some eyes on traffic,
Speaker 1: because like that's that's a big thing. Like somebody should
Speaker 1: be like, let's keep an eye on that ship without
Speaker 1: the other stuff legally go into a woman's house while
Speaker 1: she's sleeping and murder her. Maybe we don't need no
Speaker 1: knock raids at all for any reason. That's a bad idea,
Speaker 1: like why like who just keeps? Who just holds onto
Speaker 1: bad ideas? Just like it's a bad idea, Like let's
Speaker 1: just think of another one. Yeah, shame, we can't change. Well,
Speaker 1: yeah right, for more bad ideas, come back on on Thursday.
Speaker 1: Well we'll talk about um, talk more about cops. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, that's us for now. Good Bye Behind the
Speaker 1: Police is a production of I Heart Radio. For more
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Speaker 1: Doug Doug go Hello, I'm Mini Driver and on my
Speaker 1: podcast Many Questions. I put together a little experiment. I
Speaker 1: asked trailblazers across different disciplines the same seven questions. Questions
Speaker 1: about the inflection points in their life, what they like
Speaker 1: least about themselves, and what relationship has to fined love
Speaker 1: for them. This season, I'm coming back with new trailblazers
Speaker 1: like Blondie vocalist Debbie Harry. I did have a revelation.
Speaker 1: It was at CBGBUS. As a matter of fact, I
Speaker 1: was waiting for the audience to give it to me,
Speaker 1: give it me. Then I realized that I had to
Speaker 1: make them. I had to command them. Artists and creative Juggernaut.
Speaker 1: Goldie and I walk up to the mountain on high
Speaker 1: cop just being in that environment and seeing life in
Speaker 1: death in front of you, right in front of you.
Speaker 1: And I got there and scream and cry and laugh,
Speaker 1: and I find that being the happiest. And many more
Speaker 1: join me as we continue this exploration on season two
Speaker 1: of many questions on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. H