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Speaker 1: going inside the minds of men. Listen to How Men
Speaker 1: Think on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. When I was eighteen years old,
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Speaker 1: Listen to Sacred Scandal on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to
Speaker 1: Behind the Police, a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to Behind the Police, Behind the Bastard's special mini
Speaker 1: series about you know, the police in America. Uh, some
Speaker 1: of the most persistent bastards in our nation's long and
Speaker 1: bastardful history. I'm Robert Evans Uh, the host and the
Speaker 1: researcher and writer, and my guest today is Jason Petty,
Speaker 1: better known as hip hop artist Propaganda prop How are
Speaker 1: you doing today? What Up? What Up? What up? Socially
Speaker 1: and emotionally prepared for this train? Did you like how
Speaker 1: professional my introduction was? That was some NPR ship. Here's
Speaker 1: the thing, bro, like you're you are unmatched in intros
Speaker 1: and transitions. There's nothing like this. I want to be
Speaker 1: the voice. I want to retrain yourself talk voice and
Speaker 1: just continue to say you nailed it even when you didn't,
Speaker 1: just even when I didn't, beautiful. I will continue to
Speaker 1: point out when you suck it up and praise you
Speaker 1: when you don't like now, wonderful intro, Robert, very professional,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, way better than that time I
Speaker 1: just shouted Hitler. That was that was a train wreck. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do with that one. Have
Speaker 1: you ever walked by like a wall of chords and
Speaker 1: just felt then like I'm going, especially like that stage
Speaker 1: somewhere in festivals, Yes, no, or like I'm gonna yank
Speaker 1: them all out. It's gonna happen, and it's like I'm
Speaker 1: holding my hand away, like I I can't be backstage.
Speaker 1: I'm ann yank one of these out. I feel like
Speaker 1: that was like you and like the Hitler thing to
Speaker 1: where you're just like, yeah, don't say it, don't say it,
Speaker 1: don't say it. Oh my god, I want to say. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You can't script an introduction, right, like that's the first
Speaker 1: rule of of of broadcast as you can never script
Speaker 1: inn intro, So we're left with me winging it. So Propaly,
Speaker 1: yesterday we talked about the origins of American policing with
Speaker 1: a focus on like the slave patrols, and that is
Speaker 1: the thing like online since kind of this whole uprising
Speaker 1: against the police began. That's the thing everyone's been focusing
Speaker 1: on that, like police came out of slave patrols, and
Speaker 1: that is very true for a huge chunk of American policing.
Speaker 1: Today we're going to talk about the other chunk, because
Speaker 1: it was not just slave patrols, Because a sizeable chunk
Speaker 1: of American policing came out of a desire to suppress
Speaker 1: folks number one that we today would call white, but
Speaker 1: at the time of the people with money didn't really
Speaker 1: consider to be white. Um. But also more than anything,
Speaker 1: it came out of a desire to police labor, like
Speaker 1: the working class. So today we're going to kind of
Speaker 1: hit that other side of the of the where cops
Speaker 1: come from, uh divide. Um. Yeah, there's a lesson in intersectionality, guys,
Speaker 1: it is right now. Yeah. And and like all good
Speaker 1: lessons and intersectionality it comes from it includes uh, people
Speaker 1: being racist when that's directly in the opposition to their
Speaker 1: needs and an actual benefit. Yeah, a deep seated oppression, yeah,
Speaker 1: and an oppression that's taken advantage of by the ruling
Speaker 1: class in order to continue to Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and
Speaker 1: we're going up and off to you know, they free
Speaker 1: up there. You know yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the North,
Speaker 1: the North. I mean it was better than the Confederacy.
Speaker 1: But that's like saying, yeah, like vomiting in the toilet
Speaker 1: is better than vomiting on your friends floor, which like, yes,
Speaker 1: but it's both are non ideal. Straight. Yeah. So, um,
Speaker 1: you may not know this, but President John Fitzgerald Kennedy
Speaker 1: designated the week of May fifteen to be National Police Week.
Speaker 1: I don't think we celebrated it this year. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: was like, I've never heard that. Yeah, it must have
Speaker 1: missed that one. Um. During his speech announcing this, he
Speaker 1: stated that police officers had been protecting Americans since the
Speaker 1: birth of the United States. Now, we of course know
Speaker 1: that this is untrue. The first formal police department was
Speaker 1: started in Boston in eighteen thirty eight. And you know,
Speaker 1: slave patrols existed earlier, but they share weren't protecting people. Now.
Speaker 1: One of the inciting incidents that led to the creation
Speaker 1: of the Boston Police. Um. Who AGAINA, that's the first
Speaker 1: police department was the Broad Street Riot. And the basic
Speaker 1: story of the Broad Street Riot is that a funeral
Speaker 1: procession of Irish immigrants in eighteen thirty seven ran into
Speaker 1: a volunteer firefighting company of US born Protestants who are
Speaker 1: on their way back from fighting a fire. And obviously
Speaker 1: now I think most people just like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: Protestants and Catholics, they're all just sort of like, you know,
Speaker 1: relatively mainstream Christian denominations. But yeah, it was like it
Speaker 1: was like a huge deal when JFK became the first
Speaker 1: Catholic president. People were like, is he gonna sorry, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, yeah, that's how like open to
Speaker 1: diversity and melting pot we are as a country that
Speaker 1: like it was a scandal that this fool was at
Speaker 1: Catholic Yeah. I got like, yo, that's the that's just
Speaker 1: the other room for the same house. Yeah. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: you really want an idea of like how funked up
Speaker 1: America has been about diversity, Like people were like not
Speaker 1: even a decade away from putting a man on the
Speaker 1: damn moon and JFK came to power and people were like,
Speaker 1: is he going to take secret pope orders? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: And the news flash to every Protestant was like, you know,
Speaker 1: we was all Catholic until five years ago. I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know that, but it was all Catholic. Yeah, uh
Speaker 1: it was it's one so yeah, Um, Catholics and Protestants
Speaker 1: back then had some real issues with one another. So this,
Speaker 1: this Irish funeral procession like runs into the middle of
Speaker 1: this Catholic or a Protestant firefighting company, and the two
Speaker 1: just start beating the ship out of each other, and
Speaker 1: all of this spills out into a riot that eventually
Speaker 1: involves one fifth of Boston's population, which is like fifteen
Speaker 1: thousand people, which is still a pretty good sized riot today. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so ethnic tensions being what they were, the riot quickly
Speaker 1: turned into erase riot, and Protestants burned and looted the
Speaker 1: entirety of the heavily Irish Broad Street neighborhood, just like
Speaker 1: Jesus would call him. Yes, he was a big fan
Speaker 1: of burning and looting, just burning, you know, you turned
Speaker 1: that he was like, hey, he flipped over the tables.
Speaker 1: He flipped over the Tipple tables, but those weren't like
Speaker 1: his homies tables anyway. Yeah, and what he didn't he say,
Speaker 1: burned the other cheeks something like that, So I may
Speaker 1: be missing yeah yeah, so yeah, very very taking their
Speaker 1: religion seriously here. Um. So in decades prior um to
Speaker 1: the Broad street riot. Richants had been forced to finance
Speaker 1: their own guards to secure the transportation of their goods.
Speaker 1: Establishing police, which were paid more by the commonwealth shifted
Speaker 1: the burden for protecting capital off of capitalists and onto
Speaker 1: the community. But even prior to the establishment of the
Speaker 1: first police departments, law and order in the United States
Speaker 1: was primarily a for profit endeavor and not a manner
Speaker 1: of public safety. Um, the broad street right was kind
Speaker 1: of used as an excuse for, like, why we need
Speaker 1: a police force. But the tensions had been building, and
Speaker 1: like frustration had been building, like, oh, we gotta pay
Speaker 1: to take care of our own ship from you know,
Speaker 1: the merchant class. So this was kind of an opportunity
Speaker 1: for them to get people on board. Now, as we
Speaker 1: covered in the first episode, most policing in the English
Speaker 1: speaking world prior to the eighteen hundreds was primarily a
Speaker 1: community affair. Enforcement of the law was done by members
Speaker 1: of the community who tended to rotate through shifts keeping
Speaker 1: order in their own towns. Public spirit is generally the
Speaker 1: term used as what was like the primary method of
Speaker 1: social control in those days, rather than centralized authority, And
Speaker 1: that is kind of the thing that like I was
Speaker 1: just in the Seattle Autonomous Ze whatever you want to
Speaker 1: hall it, you know, may not be really an autonomous zone.
Speaker 1: I don't think they've actually kind of firmly decided yet
Speaker 1: because the police got back in briefly. But like, public
Speaker 1: spirit is the primary manner of social control there. There's
Speaker 1: no centralized organization, there's no like even mass kind of
Speaker 1: votes because people are so distributed there, but there is
Speaker 1: kind of a broad public spirit of like what if
Speaker 1: we don't have cops here? Right, that's kind of the
Speaker 1: ideal idea. Um And that was kind of the way
Speaker 1: that it worked for a very long time, um in
Speaker 1: in particularly like English speaking chunks of the of the world. UM.
Speaker 1: But but not just that. Um. So, yeah, this system
Speaker 1: began to fade out as like, you know, as the
Speaker 1: kind of industrial age dawn, and distinct communities that had
Speaker 1: been like more or less like somewhat isolated at least
Speaker 1: homogenized into cities and sprawling urban areas like now you know,
Speaker 1: we say London, but back in the day it was
Speaker 1: like a bunch of towns and then a much smaller London.
Speaker 1: And then as they all turned into like this big
Speaker 1: fucking metropolitan area. Um, this public spirit fades. So historian
Speaker 1: hind Pringle writes that by the seventeen hundreds, the legal
Speaker 1: system had formalized enough that it's architects were quote confident
Speaker 1: that they could by a system of incentives and deterrence,
Speaker 1: rewards and punishments, bribes and threats so exploit human greed
Speaker 1: and fear that there would be no need to look
Speaker 1: for anything so nebulous and unrealistic as humans or as
Speaker 1: public spirit. So that's kind of like the real dawn
Speaker 1: of of formalized law enforcement is is things get big
Speaker 1: enough and these people are like public spirit, you can't
Speaker 1: really rely on it to do what I want it
Speaker 1: to do. And I'm the guy with the money, So
Speaker 1: we need to build a system of deterrence and rewards. Yea, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's scans. Yeah, yeah, it's scans. So gradually the yeah,
Speaker 1: it keeps scans. And I was also going to say,
Speaker 1: as a side note, the and I hate I hate
Speaker 1: the very principle of what I'm about to say. Sure,
Speaker 1: but at the old folks in the charts would say
Speaker 1: it's true anyhow. Uh, I absolutely love like the Irish
Speaker 1: like culture just because it's just so irreverent and like
Speaker 1: they just don't take themselves serious. Everything is sarcastic, Yeah,
Speaker 1: drinking and going to sing at parties. And I'm just like,
Speaker 1: it's just it's just your normal slang, like a ball back,
Speaker 1: how you doing, Like you call your homeboy a ball bag.
Speaker 1: That's a scrotum, fam and that's what you refer to
Speaker 1: your friends as you throw to your friends and scrotums
Speaker 1: all ball back And it's like, look, I respect that
Speaker 1: so much. I just so I respect him. They're just
Speaker 1: ready to fight at any moment. Yeah, drink a lot,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. And then when you got
Speaker 1: to America, you created your own hood, like just the
Speaker 1: South Boston, just southy Irish pissy, don't even don't even
Speaker 1: mess with your like your grandmother ready to scrap. Like
Speaker 1: I respect that so much. Yeah, I love this is
Speaker 1: my favorite place to visit Ireland. I love the like
Speaker 1: what you're talking about, like this idea that even with
Speaker 1: like your elected leaders, like you should kind of be
Speaker 1: able to shout at him, right, That's yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: bit of that in England too, Like this idea that
Speaker 1: like we had a thing here and it happened in
Speaker 1: Minneapolis with Mayor Fray where like he had to go
Speaker 1: out to this crowd and like when he said something
Speaker 1: didn't like this crowd of thousands like told him to
Speaker 1: go the funk home. And we had that in Portland
Speaker 1: with our mayor. Like he showed up in the middle
Speaker 1: of this crowd to take questions and everyone just told him, like,
Speaker 1: you had the cops shoot at us a bunch, and
Speaker 1: we don't like that, and you're a bad mayor. And
Speaker 1: everyone just got to like yell at the mayor. And
Speaker 1: that's how it ought to be with all elected officials.
Speaker 1: They should have to stand in the middle of a
Speaker 1: crowd of their voters and get heckled when they funk up.
Speaker 1: It's it's like, yes, every elected official should have to
Speaker 1: do some sort of like open mic like stand up,
Speaker 1: just dive bar where you have to feel that he dude.
Speaker 1: My first few years of touring, like the he of
Speaker 1: being like, okay, listen, it's it's almost it's it's eight
Speaker 1: fift you know what I'm saying. Everybody's just pregame in
Speaker 1: trying to figure out who they're gonna hit on later,
Speaker 1: and I have to go up and wrap for fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes and try to convince this room to pay attention
Speaker 1: to me for I got ten minutes. Often commissions like
Speaker 1: that is the best school of hard knocks as like
Speaker 1: a live performer that anyone could ever. I feel like
Speaker 1: every mayor should have to do that. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely,
Speaker 1: like this the public the whole public spirit thing. Obviously
Speaker 1: there's a lot of more people now where there's a
Speaker 1: more complexity you need, you need more than just public spirit.
Speaker 1: But this idea that like if everyone just kind of
Speaker 1: hates this dude, like he should have to stand in
Speaker 1: the middle of them and I try to convince them
Speaker 1: that they're wrong or at least just take the fucking
Speaker 1: fire for all right, if you could take that fire
Speaker 1: and or win some of us over, I would be like,
Speaker 1: you know what, Okay, maybe I was wrong, but maybe
Speaker 1: I was wrong about this dude. Yeah yeah, anyway, anyway
Speaker 1: back to the fucking cop so um. Gradually, the profit
Speaker 1: motive became the central motivating force behind law enforcement. So
Speaker 1: kind of public spirit moves aside for we just pay
Speaker 1: people to do this ship um. And the change started
Speaker 1: at the level of the constable. Traditionally, constables had been
Speaker 1: unpaid members of the community who took turns at the job.
Speaker 1: But most citizens came to dislike taking their turn as constable,
Speaker 1: especially since each turn involved a one year, unpaid period
Speaker 1: of working to enforce laws that were often very inpopular
Speaker 1: because there was like centralized state authority. It just there
Speaker 1: wasn't like super organized law enforcements like the king or
Speaker 1: whoever would make like a law that people didn't like,
Speaker 1: and then you would take your turn, and you have
Speaker 1: to enforce that law, and that doesn't make you popular, um,
Speaker 1: which was an issue with the system who was making
Speaker 1: the laws. So over time, deputies began to realize that
Speaker 1: the power of their office held other opportunities for profit.
Speaker 1: According to a paper on the development of private police
Speaker 1: by Stephen Spitzer of Northern Iowa University and Andrew School
Speaker 1: of the University of Pennsylvania, quote once in office, the
Speaker 1: deputies soon found that prof it could be gained from
Speaker 1: selling protective and investigative services or demanding rewards and fees
Speaker 1: in return for recovered goods. Deputies often made such a
Speaker 1: profitable trade of their offices that many were prepared to
Speaker 1: serve for nothing. So this goes from like this ugly
Speaker 1: job that you take because you have to to a
Speaker 1: job that you know because you kind of find a
Speaker 1: way to you kind of find you kind of find
Speaker 1: side hustles in your position allows you to exploit and
Speaker 1: then it it becomes really profitable even though there's not
Speaker 1: a salary for the gig, and so you kind of
Speaker 1: freelance police at this point, right like that's the gig.
Speaker 1: So this suited early local governments in England and her
Speaker 1: colonies pretty well because these these governments and these people's
Speaker 1: like just because of an aspect of the culture, felt
Speaker 1: a deep resistance to the idea of paying for a
Speaker 1: salary and police force. Individual constables who were successful in
Speaker 1: their jobs could sell their services to the highest bidder,
Speaker 1: augmenting their official duties with what was essentially private security work.
Speaker 1: The system made it over to the North American colonies
Speaker 1: during the first decades of the eighteen hundreds. New York
Speaker 1: City police officers were noted as being more quote private
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs in public servants. The same was true in Boston
Speaker 1: before and after the formal establishment of their police department
Speaker 1: Spitzer in school rite quote. Since the main concern of
Speaker 1: the victim was restitution. They function then as personal injury
Speaker 1: lawyers operate today on a contingency basis hoping to get
Speaker 1: a large part, perhaps half of the proceeds. So cops
Speaker 1: would kind of hang around like a like a bad lawyer.
Speaker 1: They would wait to see, Oh, somebody just got robbed,
Speaker 1: somebody just got beaten up, somebody's store got broken into,
Speaker 1: and then they would show up and be like, hey,
Speaker 1: if I get that stuff back and I have half
Speaker 1: of it? Like that was Those were the first cops,
Speaker 1: like in the North and stuff. Yeah, before there's like
Speaker 1: really police departments, you know, so like okay, so when
Speaker 1: you it's so crazy when you think of it in context,
Speaker 1: which is like the best thing to do as somebody
Speaker 1: that really wants to understand humans, it's like, can you
Speaker 1: blame them for being like, you know, maybe maybe we
Speaker 1: should centralize this what if Like yeah, kind of like
Speaker 1: maybe we should come up with some sort of department
Speaker 1: that maybe above this. Yeah that sucks, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. So you're like, it's it's maybe it's I
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe it's a bad, bad idea of the
Speaker 1: way we're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's definitely like you
Speaker 1: you you kind of transition away for everybody taking turns
Speaker 1: as the cops to like cops being basically mercenaries and
Speaker 1: people are like mercenaries kind of suck. Got a fan
Speaker 1: of this strike. Two guys like yeah, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's yes, you're you're absolutely right, Like you can't
Speaker 1: totally blame people for being like, well, what if we
Speaker 1: tried to like make this a more official thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like we can identify him and it's not just like
Speaker 1: it's not just like my neighbor Dave down the street
Speaker 1: that I just trust is full Like I don't trust Dave.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. Yeah, you know, it's a
Speaker 1: shady son of a bit. It's kind of shady man. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, this was Yeah. Most police in this
Speaker 1: period worked as actually not even uniformed thugs, um, just
Speaker 1: kind of thugs protecting the businesses and streets that paid them,
Speaker 1: or as private detectives hunting down stolen goods or other
Speaker 1: criminals on a contingency basis. The system provided no real
Speaker 1: benefit for the average person and only marginal benefit for
Speaker 1: the capitol holding class. See this was back before the
Speaker 1: dawn of the industrial economy, and people weren't used to
Speaker 1: the idea of just working all of the time because
Speaker 1: that was their job. Farm labor was seasonal, and skilled
Speaker 1: laborers usually didn't work more than they needed to in
Speaker 1: order to live comfortably. Law enforcement officers kind of work
Speaker 1: the same way. So these people would take enough jobs
Speaker 1: to maintain a decent lifestyle, and then when they had
Speaker 1: enough money, they'd stop working. So suddenly the constably were like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do anything for the next couple of months.
Speaker 1: Like I'm good. I had a big case, like sorry,
Speaker 1: you need help, but like why would I work right now?
Speaker 1: I don't need to and I'm not gonna work if
Speaker 1: I don't need to. Um. Yeah, So to make matters worse,
Speaker 1: at least for the business owning class. Uh, the way
Speaker 1: bounties were structured actually discouraged police from catching criminals. Historian
Speaker 1: James F. Richardson Rights and his History of the New
Speaker 1: York Police quote the police reports published in the newspapers
Speaker 1: in these years are filled with accounts of instances in
Speaker 1: which the property was returned with financial rewards for the
Speaker 1: police officer, but in which the criminal was not brought
Speaker 1: to justice. The officer received a larger fee or reward
Speaker 1: for covering the stolen property then he would have received
Speaker 1: for bringing the criminal in Often the arrangement was consummated
Speaker 1: even before the robbery or burglary took place. An officer
Speaker 1: would be privy to a crime, and after its commission,
Speaker 1: would endeavor to recover the stolen property in return for
Speaker 1: a liberal reward. Part of the reward within go to
Speaker 1: the thief. It's a share. She this is the shadows.
Speaker 1: So like you you need to tell me, by design,
Speaker 1: the cop was crooked, Like just it's just baked into
Speaker 1: the I am instead of like listen to what listen
Speaker 1: what Professor Evans just taught to you. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, I am incentivized to cheat. It is better
Speaker 1: for all of us if I just cheat, and y'all think,
Speaker 1: and that's what's crazy about. Like here's here's what like
Speaker 1: with just just pure unchecked capitalism does to your brain,
Speaker 1: is you would think, oh, yeah, it's just it's just competition.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Like, hey, man, hey dude,
Speaker 1: if you get my stuff back, I just want you
Speaker 1: to know, like I'll pay you more if you get
Speaker 1: my stuff back. You were good at your job. I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna pay you more for it. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, maybe there's a way I can
Speaker 1: get both. Yeah yeah, yeah, what if I just work
Speaker 1: with the guy that's going to steal your stuff like that,
Speaker 1: the stuff he wants money, Yeah, we all win and
Speaker 1: that situate you got you stuff back. I mean it's money,
Speaker 1: like it just yeah, yeah, yeah, it's great. It's like
Speaker 1: a tax on rich people by I don't know, not
Speaker 1: necessarily poor people. Well maybe the thieves were, but like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's whatever. So up until the mid eighteen hundreds, policing
Speaker 1: in the cities of the American North had been a
Speaker 1: fundamentally reactive endeavor. Officers went off in response to specific
Speaker 1: criminal acts, rather than seeking to prevent set acts. You know,
Speaker 1: there were some exceptions sometimes people will be like, well,
Speaker 1: let's hire some officers to like watch this neighborhood where
Speaker 1: we have a bunch of shops or whatever. But generally
Speaker 1: it was pretty reactive. Um and as the first major
Speaker 1: metropolitan police departments were established in the eighteen thirties and forties,
Speaker 1: this started to change. These new police departments focused on
Speaker 1: the dangerous classes. You remember here the first episode. Yeah,
Speaker 1: dangerous classes were largely made up of poor immigrants who
Speaker 1: were seen as being fundamentally criminal. The idea began to
Speaker 1: spread that by patrolling, surveilling, and deploying force against these populations,
Speaker 1: police could stop crime from occurring. Now, whether or not
Speaker 1: someone counted as a member of a dangerous class had
Speaker 1: an awful lot to do with whether or not that
Speaker 1: person also counted as white. The full subject of what
Speaker 1: whiteness meant in the North in this period of time
Speaker 1: is much too complicated for series that's already going to
Speaker 1: be complicated. What is important to understand is that a
Speaker 1: lot of groups, again that we all lump in as
Speaker 1: white today, weren't really white yet during the mid eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 1: This included, at varying points, Germans, Italians, Jews of all
Speaker 1: national origins, and of course the Irish. Now again, as
Speaker 1: I noted in the last episode talking about this, is
Speaker 1: is complicated to a fact that a lot of modern racists,
Speaker 1: or at least kind of people who like to deny
Speaker 1: the suffering of black people will claim that like, oh,
Speaker 1: it was it just as bad for the Irish, And
Speaker 1: it absolutely was not, but also anti Irish big treat
Speaker 1: was still a motherfucker, Like there was a lot of
Speaker 1: that going around. No one's yeah it's from from from
Speaker 1: as someone from the black community. I'm like, okay, no
Speaker 1: one's arguing that the Irish who are not not treated unfairly.
Speaker 1: It was they went through. It's not come on, it's
Speaker 1: it was not the same. It's like, you know, I like,
Speaker 1: I am ade, you know, sis gender heterosexual male. And
Speaker 1: when my wife got pregnant, no part of me said
Speaker 1: we're pregnant. Yeah, that's just like I can't stand when
Speaker 1: husbands say that, yo, we're pregnant. I'm like, nigga, no,
Speaker 1: we're not. You you understand what I'm saying. She is
Speaker 1: doing it while I'm in there with her, and you
Speaker 1: know you are not. I remember standing on the side
Speaker 1: of the room when my wife was about to go
Speaker 1: and labor, being like, women are magical superheroes because there
Speaker 1: I don't know a single male on earth that could
Speaker 1: do this. So I'm like, no, no, man, it is
Speaker 1: not the same. Okay, it's not the math same. We
Speaker 1: are not pregnant. Shut your mouth. All I gotta do
Speaker 1: is go get weird ice cream and Dorito's. That's my job.
Speaker 1: Go get somebody cream and Doritos. She is cooking a human.
Speaker 1: We are not pregnant. So in the same way, I'm
Speaker 1: like look okay, yeah, we're both going through this experience.
Speaker 1: I'm tired too, I gotta get up and you know,
Speaker 1: feed this child is three in the morning. I'm tired,
Speaker 1: But I am not the child's food source. The milk
Speaker 1: ain't coming out of my boob is coming out of
Speaker 1: her boob. It is not the same. Just it's and
Speaker 1: it's like, that's not a disk. I'm not It's just
Speaker 1: it's just not the same. Like, let it not be
Speaker 1: the same, you know. Yeah, it's okay that different groups
Speaker 1: suffer in different ways. It's the same place that Yeah,
Speaker 1: we we can, we can. We can explore the ways
Speaker 1: in which you suffer. Ring is unique and also the
Speaker 1: ways in which it has common roots of origin without
Speaker 1: conflating thing. I'm not going to play the oppression Olympics.
Speaker 1: Like that's what I'm not going to do, not playing
Speaker 1: the opress anyway. Yeah. Um, we're talking a lot about
Speaker 1: how police departments developed out of the desire for the
Speaker 1: capital holding classes to publicly fund the protection of their ship,
Speaker 1: but also the increasing populations and racial mixtures of American
Speaker 1: cities had a big impact on it too. Race riots
Speaker 1: became increasingly common in the eighteen thirties and forties as
Speaker 1: long as well as other riots. There were just a
Speaker 1: shipload of riots in this period of time, and all
Speaker 1: this unrest helped sell the growing middle class on the
Speaker 1: idea of police departments. Policing also opered offered an opportunity
Speaker 1: for non white groups of white people like the Irish,
Speaker 1: to gradually gain social acceptance. The first Irish policeman in
Speaker 1: the United States is generally believed to be have been
Speaker 1: a Bostonian dude named Barney mcginniskan, which is an incredibly
Speaker 1: wow Barney mcginniskan cheese. It's like they made him in
Speaker 1: a lab at it a cartoon. Yeah. So Barney mcginniskan
Speaker 1: was hired in eighteen fifty one, and a local alderman
Speaker 1: was infuriated by this on the grounds that it would
Speaker 1: create a dangerous precedent irishman. He continued commit most of
Speaker 1: the city's crime and would receive special consideration from one
Speaker 1: of their own wearing the blue Now. Mcginniskan's career lasted
Speaker 1: only three years. When the nationalist, anti Catholic No Nothing
Speaker 1: Party took over the Massachusetts legislature. The Irish would not
Speaker 1: make major inroads into northern police departments until their population
Speaker 1: grew large enough that the Democratic Party realized they could
Speaker 1: guarantee Irish votes by giving irishman jobs on police departments.
Speaker 1: And that's why there's kind of a stereotype of the
Speaker 1: Irish police officer today. Like the patty wagon went from
Speaker 1: being a wagon that you throw Irish people onto on
Speaker 1: their way to jail because they're all criminals to just
Speaker 1: like a term for a cop car because all cops
Speaker 1: are Irish like that. That that change happened over the course,
Speaker 1: and it was kind of it wasn't the only thing
Speaker 1: that had to do with this, but it was kind
Speaker 1: of a part of Irish people sort of becoming white,
Speaker 1: you know, as they kind of take up scitions helping
Speaker 1: to enforce the social order and stop being kind of
Speaker 1: on the fringes of it. Yeah, that's the thing that
Speaker 1: says rebellion type stuff. Okay. Yeah, So one thing all
Speaker 1: scholars seem to agree on is that these early police
Speaker 1: departments were uniformly corrupt and violent. Local police party ward
Speaker 1: leaders who were like local politicians in charge of the
Speaker 1: neighborhoods and ship tended to appoint the police officers in
Speaker 1: charge of their neighborhoods in society being what it was
Speaker 1: back then, these ward leaders often also owned the local
Speaker 1: cavern and ran the local gambling and prostitution rackets. So
Speaker 1: if you were like, if you were like the equivalent
Speaker 1: of like a local like senator or whatever, or an
Speaker 1: alderman or some ship city council member, you would also
Speaker 1: own the bar in your area, and you would run
Speaker 1: like the prostitution and gambling rackets, and you would also
Speaker 1: run the police. Like That's kind of how it worked,
Speaker 1: and so everybody was it was just a bunch of
Speaker 1: gang bosses. Yeah, gang yes, yeah, And that's you know,
Speaker 1: that's not that different from the way the ancient rome
Speaker 1: worked too, to be honest, like pretty similar. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So these ward leaders controlled both the police and the
Speaker 1: gangs um and both the police and gangs mostly of
Speaker 1: local youths who would help organize voter drives and would
Speaker 1: intimidate people into making the right choices on voting day.
Speaker 1: The first police departments then were just one of several
Speaker 1: violent tools available to these early political bosses in the
Speaker 1: big cities of the north and you know, kind of
Speaker 1: the middle of the country. It wasn't really the middle.
Speaker 1: It would have been like the fringe at that point,
Speaker 1: but like whatever, you get what I'm saying, we get it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Police salaries were also augmented by bribes paid by the
Speaker 1: owners of illegal businesses. And I'm gonna quote again from
Speaker 1: Dr Gary Potter here, in this system of vice, organized violence,
Speaker 1: and political corruption, it is inconceivable that the police could
Speaker 1: be anything but corrupt. Police systematically took payoffs to allow
Speaker 1: illegal drinking, gambling, and prostitution. Police organized professional criminals like
Speaker 1: thieves and pickpockets, trading immunity for bribes or information. They
Speaker 1: actively participated in vote buying and ballot box stuffing. Loyal
Speaker 1: political operatives became police officers. They had no discernable qualifications
Speaker 1: for policing and little if any training in policing. Promotions
Speaker 1: within the police departments were sold, not earned, police drink
Speaker 1: while on patrol. They protected their patrons vice operations, and
Speaker 1: they were equipped to use peremptory force. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: all scans. Yeah. What's funny to me is too is
Speaker 1: like when you from the street level. Part of the
Speaker 1: like outrage is when that cop all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: just one day, decides tag like an upright citizen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and and so if if you know, it's
Speaker 1: like any other relationship to where it's like, Okay, you
Speaker 1: and your brother, your little sister, like you're all scumbags,
Speaker 1: you're all stealing, you're all you're all sneaking out, and
Speaker 1: then one day your brother goes, you know, mom, Robert's
Speaker 1: been sneaking out all week. You're like, what the so
Speaker 1: you serious? Yeah? You serious? Bro? Like what are you
Speaker 1: talking about? You know why I snuck out to steal
Speaker 1: you some weed? You know what I'm saying? So like yeah, anyway,
Speaker 1: So it's like when you when you look at it
Speaker 1: from that perspective, like why somebody would in turn being like, man,
Speaker 1: you know what, I ain't got no time and I
Speaker 1: got no mercy for y'all. I don't treat you no
Speaker 1: different than anybody else, is because you don't act no
Speaker 1: different than anybody else. Yeah, it's fucking uh yeah, it
Speaker 1: is weird that like in this period to most people
Speaker 1: would have looked at like a dude who was like
Speaker 1: a fucking a pimp or uh yeah, like as the
Speaker 1: same way they with a cop, like you guys are
Speaker 1: two sides of the same fucking coin. Yes, And then
Speaker 1: they yeah this and we'll talk in a later episode
Speaker 1: we will get to sort of the media operation that
Speaker 1: was kind of helped to form what are what up
Speaker 1: until very recently, we're sort of the modern kind of
Speaker 1: mainstream consensus on police officers as like upstanding members of
Speaker 1: the community and ship yea um, but like yeah, for
Speaker 1: a very long time, they were just seen as another
Speaker 1: are kind of thug, Like yeah they're gay, Yeah, they're gay. Yeah. Now.
Speaker 1: Samuel Walker, a professor and expert on the history of
Speaker 1: police accountability, says that during this period, municipal police were
Speaker 1: used as delegated vigilantes by the empowered classes of the
Speaker 1: new United States. That's an interesting term. Now. They were
Speaker 1: men entrusted with power by those in power to use
Speaker 1: violence against again, the dangerous classes who were seen as
Speaker 1: fundamentally criminal. Interestingly enough, Walker seems to believe this idea
Speaker 1: of having delegated vigilantes grew into a central aspect of
Speaker 1: American identity. Quote many of the worst abuses of official
Speaker 1: criminal justice agencies represent a form of delegated vigilantism. The
Speaker 1: public has tended to condone, if not encourage, police brutality
Speaker 1: directed against the outcasts of society or the mistreatment of
Speaker 1: inmates in penal institutions. So this thing that we all recognize.
Speaker 1: I think I don't have to go into detail about
Speaker 1: this idea that like we should have delegated vigilantes. It's
Speaker 1: okay if we have people we all agree should be
Speaker 1: sucked up that some people go fuck them up. Like
Speaker 1: this really central aspect of American culture starts in this
Speaker 1: period with this idea of like the police as delegated
Speaker 1: vigilantes to damage the dangerous classes. Wow, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, it's the idea of like something built
Speaker 1: in it's like in the very construction of the concept.
Speaker 1: Like it's a lot of times I compare this too
Speaker 1: when you try to tell somebody that, like, hey, your
Speaker 1: story about like the founding of our nation wasn't It's
Speaker 1: not as like pretty as you think it was. Just
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, When you try to like start,
Speaker 1: you're missing some paragraph. Guys, it's like how earth shattering,
Speaker 1: and just like I have to reconstruct reality. So like
Speaker 1: so when you so when you fast forward and we go, no,
Speaker 1: most of your most of our founding fathers slave owners.
Speaker 1: They they were not at all Christians. I don't know
Speaker 1: where you get this founding on Christian thing from you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like, that's earth shattering. So I
Speaker 1: think like like this one, this this series is gonna
Speaker 1: be that for people. When you're they're just like, well
Speaker 1: then is the sky blue? Can I trust my eyes
Speaker 1: with my hands? And like like the weird this is
Speaker 1: multiverse level reality shattering for people. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: when you go back as far as you go on, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I hope. So, I mean it's it's pretty it's interesting.
Speaker 1: It's interesting to me because like if you, if you,
Speaker 1: if you really sort of like dig into this idea
Speaker 1: of delegated vigilantism. Um, it's kind of a central thing
Speaker 1: that Americans believe in. Um. You you You're You're led
Speaker 1: to some uncomfortable kind of patterns or pathways of thought
Speaker 1: because like so one of the most popular methods used
Speaker 1: today even to justify the violence of the police is
Speaker 1: the supposed criminality or deviance of the people that the
Speaker 1: police are victimizing. UM. And I it's interesting to me
Speaker 1: that you can draw you really can't draw a direct
Speaker 1: line between the delegated vigilantism that started in the eighteen
Speaker 1: hundreds fucking Batman and the right wing reaction to the
Speaker 1: murder of Trayvon Martin. Yeah, like, who he's a hero.
Speaker 1: I mean it was the guy shouldn't have been back
Speaker 1: there anyway. Yeah, it's exactly. Oh my god, it's Batman's Batman.
Speaker 1: I never thought of it because I'm always like, because
Speaker 1: I'm more of the trailer, Like I'm the seventeen year
Speaker 1: old kid with a bag of skittles cutting through a backyard,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, just trying to get home.
Speaker 1: So my dad has been mad, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And if some dude is like following me, my thought
Speaker 1: is I better beat this fool to a pulp because
Speaker 1: it's scary, because I just don't want to, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So, like, I never thought of it
Speaker 1: as like, oh, this fool thinks he's Batman. Damn, this
Speaker 1: fool thinks he's the fucking he's the vigilante hero that
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm gone the city from scumbcum shoes.
Speaker 1: It's the same. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's white fucking
Speaker 1: cops have punisher patches on their fucking cars, and it's
Speaker 1: why every all sorts of people a fucking punished Like
Speaker 1: it's it's this core, very core, even maybe even more
Speaker 1: core than this, like nebulous love of freedom that we
Speaker 1: have is like this. There should be people who beat
Speaker 1: the funk out of people I think are bad, Like
Speaker 1: it's just an origin story DNA strand. Okay, Uh want
Speaker 1: to take an advert real quick? Yeah, you know who
Speaker 1: won't beat the funk out of people who don't deserve
Speaker 1: it and a misplaced desire for vigilante justice. These disembodied
Speaker 1: products that are keeping the lights on kind of constitutionally
Speaker 1: incapable of of violence as as products. Yes, on autonomously,
Speaker 1: that's not the word I'm looking for. Ontologically, that's not
Speaker 1: the word I'm I don't know. Okay, we're done. We're
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Speaker 1: get your podcasts. All right, and we are returned. So
Speaker 1: the system of American policing would have its next major
Speaker 1: evolution in the late eighteen hundreds as a result of
Speaker 1: the growing like union movements, So obviously like the Lady,
Speaker 1: teen hundreds is kind of the period in which Americans
Speaker 1: really start to unionize. There had been unions in the
Speaker 1: United States, I think the first one was seventeen seventy eight,
Speaker 1: but their existence had been fairly scattered and a kind
Speaker 1: of minimal consequence until eighteen sixty six, when the National
Speaker 1: Labor Union formed to convince Congress to limit the work
Speaker 1: day for federal workers to eight hours. B the eighteen eighties,
Speaker 1: union membership had spread widely across the private sector, and
Speaker 1: union strikes were constant across the big cities of the North.
Speaker 1: From eighteen eighty to nineteen hundred, New York had more
Speaker 1: than five thousand strikes involving more than a million workers.
Speaker 1: Chicago had seventeen hundred and thirty seven, and I think
Speaker 1: more than half a million workers. So I called these strikes,
Speaker 1: and I think modern historians call these strikes, and modern
Speaker 1: people would recognize them as strikes. But at the time, politicians,
Speaker 1: business owners and like the wealthy classes called them riots. Uh,
Speaker 1: And they turned. There's still fairly new police departments to
Speaker 1: the task of breaking up these riots. They turn, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the where riot police starts. Like all these people
Speaker 1: don't want to work more than eight hours a day,
Speaker 1: Better have the cops beat the ship, like yo, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I before I did music full time, like I taught
Speaker 1: high school for a todd nine graators, you know, and uh,
Speaker 1: I just knew instinctually, you know, I was a young teacher,
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm like, before I thought neither, I
Speaker 1: thought seniors. And I'm like, I'm four years older than you,
Speaker 1: So I'm not gonna like, I'm not gonna send you
Speaker 1: to the office, like that's stupid. Like I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: try to act like some sort of boss here. I
Speaker 1: just figured it was real simple. I performed better for teachers.
Speaker 1: I liked, yeah, it's just simple. So I'm just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I just felt like this, you know, my best
Speaker 1: the best way to have classroom management is if these
Speaker 1: kids like you. Yeah, it's the It's the thing that
Speaker 1: I said that made so much sense when I was
Speaker 1: in Rojava in northeast Syria, which is the idea that
Speaker 1: like kind of the basic the stuff that we would
Speaker 1: consider like the core of law enforcement, which is like
Speaker 1: patrolling around a neighborhood making sure ship's fine, Like that's
Speaker 1: often done by like local counsels heavily made up of
Speaker 1: like old folks like fucking grandma and stuff, because like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't want to don't want to be acting like
Speaker 1: a fucking piece of ship in front of your grandma,
Speaker 1: like grandma, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, straighten up,
Speaker 1: fly right, Grandma come around the corner, you know, So
Speaker 1: I did. Yeah, that's that's the prince. So I just
Speaker 1: I've never understood how the boss and I mean I
Speaker 1: got I got like an assistant and you know, management
Speaker 1: and stuff like. That's always people on my pay roll,
Speaker 1: and I just never like, why would they work? Why
Speaker 1: would I who want to work for somebody they don't like? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Like, so if you just
Speaker 1: if you run things like I just it just seems
Speaker 1: so logical to me that you it's like to for
Speaker 1: bag security purpose. Even if I'm just go that like
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to secure this bag. I feel like
Speaker 1: my employees should feel like I like them. Yeah. Maybe
Speaker 1: that's why I'm not a kajillionaire because yeah, there's something
Speaker 1: I don't get caring about what people think. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I'll never account being accountable to feeling like I don't
Speaker 1: have to be the smartest guy in the room all
Speaker 1: the time. That's why I hired an accountant, because you
Speaker 1: better need this. Yes, shout off with my accountant to
Speaker 1: thank you, Sean. So right, yeah again, so riot police
Speaker 1: kind of get started to break up these fucking um
Speaker 1: these these what are essentially strikes are definitely strikes. Um.
Speaker 1: And you know, this was a really good deal for
Speaker 1: the owners of businesses because since the police departments were
Speaker 1: now funded by the state, they got to break up
Speaker 1: strikes against their businesses without spending you know, their own
Speaker 1: money to do it. And as Dr Potter notes, the
Speaker 1: use of delegated visual anties to break up strikes confused
Speaker 1: the issue of workers rights with the issue of crime.
Speaker 1: So people might be sympathetic towards workers who are striking
Speaker 1: for a better deal, but they're not sympathetic towards criminals
Speaker 1: who are rioting. So you frame a strike as a riot,
Speaker 1: then you have a freer hand and just beat the
Speaker 1: ship out of everybody involved. All these things. They're just thugs.
Speaker 1: They had drugs on them. Yeah, yeah, definitely got it.
Speaker 1: So early police broke up strikes in the same way
Speaker 1: we're familiar with riot cops breaking at protests today unspeakable violence.
Speaker 1: But they also had subtler methods of achieving the same end,
Speaker 1: public order arrests, which were essentially police declaring someone's behavior
Speaker 1: a crime for a non specific reason and then arresting them.
Speaker 1: These gave police a way to break up union meetings
Speaker 1: and gatherings before they could turn into strikes. In Chicago
Speaker 1: during this period, eight percent of all arrests were public
Speaker 1: order arrests of workers. Yeah. Yeah, so the infraction is
Speaker 1: y'all standing around. Yeah, yeah, exactly, that's that's the that's
Speaker 1: the okay, Yeah you're loitering. Yeah, you just know you're
Speaker 1: going to jail. Yeah, yea allowed to stand here. Yeah. Again,
Speaker 1: you can make some comparisons to all the states that
Speaker 1: put in curfews and then suddenly said now it's illegal
Speaker 1: to be out after five. So if you're out after five,
Speaker 1: we can funk you up. Did you see it once?
Speaker 1: I forget. I think there was a few of them
Speaker 1: out here in California. One of the one of the
Speaker 1: cities was like things you and do after the curfew,
Speaker 1: go to the store, go to the groceries, pick up
Speaker 1: your children being stuck in traffic. Things you can't do
Speaker 1: after after curfew. Gather in large groups in front of
Speaker 1: city hall. Yeah. I was just like, oh, work, okay,
Speaker 1: So yeah, really like, oh we're okay, too much free
Speaker 1: speech going on here. You gotta stop that ship. Yeah,
Speaker 1: carry cardboard signs you can't do after got it? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: great first amendment we have. So between eighteen seventy and
Speaker 1: nineteen hundred, nearly a million workers were jailed for public
Speaker 1: order offenses. And just Chicago. Now, a lot of cities
Speaker 1: also made use of what we're called tramp acts. These
Speaker 1: criminalized traveling without having a visible means of support. So
Speaker 1: if you were moving around in the city or the
Speaker 1: world and you didn't weren't you didn't have money, clearly
Speaker 1: like you didn't clearly have a job, um, you were
Speaker 1: committing a crime. So in other words, it was illegal
Speaker 1: in a lot of cities to be an unemployed, poor
Speaker 1: person who left their home. So when workers would go
Speaker 1: on strike and would lose their jobs for going on strike,
Speaker 1: they were then breaking the law because they were outside
Speaker 1: in the city and doing something besides looking for a
Speaker 1: new job. What the I know, right, Land of the Free,
Speaker 1: Like maybe serious? How good? Lord? Pretty good? Pretty good? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And again like the arrests are of these people. So
Speaker 1: if you're talking about like the police protecting people, who
Speaker 1: are they protecting? Who are they serving? It's not most
Speaker 1: of the people. Yeah anyway, yeah, yeah. Tramp acts were
Speaker 1: of course not applied to members of the middle class
Speaker 1: or wealthy individuals. It was only illegal to be out
Speaker 1: and not laboring if you were a member of the
Speaker 1: dangerous classes. Meanwhile, good citizens, respectable citizens, these were all
Speaker 1: regular terms used, which again we're all kind of terms
Speaker 1: for fully white citizens with money and property. Yeah, these
Speaker 1: people were increasingly able rather than being increasingly pressed by
Speaker 1: the police, those folks were increasingly able to call on
Speaker 1: the police when they felt uncomfortable or afraid. The very
Speaker 1: first alarm boxes were set up in major cities during
Speaker 1: this period of time. And these were similar to the
Speaker 1: dedicate you know in like on a college campus there
Speaker 1: will be like very well lit like police phones that
Speaker 1: like you presumably if you're getting sexually assault or something,
Speaker 1: you'd like run over to it and call the cops. Um.
Speaker 1: This this was the same basic idea, um, And they
Speaker 1: were set up started being set it up in cities
Speaker 1: in this area, particularly in like parts of cities where
Speaker 1: they were like businesses and you know, upper upper income
Speaker 1: housing and stuff. Um. And but they were locked, so
Speaker 1: you couldn't most people couldn't actually use the alarm boxes,
Speaker 1: but local businessmen and wealthy people were all given keys
Speaker 1: because the police existed to be their on call personal security.
Speaker 1: She oh my gosh, like just all allowed in the open. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of not a lot of I
Speaker 1: don't know, masks on it and stuff. So it doesn't
Speaker 1: even seem convenient. Like if I'm not, if I'm rich
Speaker 1: and I'm being robbed, you think I got time to
Speaker 1: like figure out which key to this is. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I don't think it was mostly them being robbed. I
Speaker 1: think they would see like, oh, there's a bunch of
Speaker 1: fucking Italians hanging out in this corner. I'd better get
Speaker 1: the cops over here to kick their asses, Like I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't want Italians on my street corner, and like
Speaker 1: they're carrying ing you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're all
Speaker 1: there's more than one of them. A gang must be
Speaker 1: a gang. So yeah. Thanks to the advances of technology
Speaker 1: that allowed alarm boxes to exist, property owners were able
Speaker 1: to call on the police department, which was funded by
Speaker 1: everyone's taxes, in order to protect their private wealth and increasingly,
Speaker 1: just to kind of protect their sense of comfort. So
Speaker 1: policing tools developed. With the need to break up strikes
Speaker 1: and riots, patrol wagons began taking to the streets. This
Speaker 1: allowed police to easily travel in large groups and easily
Speaker 1: arrest large groups of people. Police on horseback also started
Speaker 1: to appear, because horses were seen as the most effective
Speaker 1: way to break up a group of protesters. Officers began
Speaker 1: carrying long night sticks because breaking an activists skulls was
Speaker 1: an increasing part of their job. Yeah. Throughout the later
Speaker 1: half of the eighteen hundreds, early police departments were faced
Speaker 1: with the question of whether or not officers should be
Speaker 1: uniformed and given firearms. Sir Peel, the father of police work,
Speaker 1: the guy who created the London Metropolitan Police, was pretty
Speaker 1: stringently against cops packing heat. American police, though, began carrying
Speaker 1: guns independently by virtue of arming themselves years before such
Speaker 1: equipment became standard. So decades really before police departments are
Speaker 1: giving everyone a gun. Cops are just kind of buying
Speaker 1: their own guns because it is America. Yeah, and you
Speaker 1: know what, you're right, it's effective if it's just like
Speaker 1: it's like drinking again, it's like drinking bleach y. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it'll cure. I mean I'm pretty sure it'll
Speaker 1: You won't. Yeah, you won't die from coronavirus. You if
Speaker 1: you drink enough bleach. If you drink enough bleach, just like,
Speaker 1: you know what, if you really want to send everybody home,
Speaker 1: you know what, you're right, beat the ship at them
Speaker 1: with billy clubs and guns. You're right, that will in
Speaker 1: the protest. So the US police departments first started a
Speaker 1: kind of like in an organized way, issuing arms to
Speaker 1: police in like the eighteen forties, um. And when this
Speaker 1: started to happen, the American public was extremely skeptical of
Speaker 1: the idea because again, we are a freedom loving people,
Speaker 1: and the idea that police would be allowed to deploy
Speaker 1: deadly force at will against citizens was extremely unpopular. At first.
Speaker 1: People are like, what the funk are you talking about? You? Like, again,
Speaker 1: these people, we all understand, these people are basically the
Speaker 1: same as thugs. And you want to you want to pay,
Speaker 1: have the state pay for them to have guns. Now, Like,
Speaker 1: that's not a great idea. Yeah, yeah, But as Dr
Speaker 1: Gary Potter writes, quote, the value of armed paramilitary presence
Speaker 1: authorized to use indeed deadly force served the interests of
Speaker 1: local economic elites who had wanted organized police departments in
Speaker 1: the first place. The presence of a paramilitary force occupying
Speaker 1: the streets was regarded as essential because such organizations intervened
Speaker 1: between the property and elites and property less masses who
Speaker 1: were regarded as politically dangerous as a class. Now, these
Speaker 1: propertied classes also considered it essential that police be uniformed
Speaker 1: so that respectable citizens could identify them when they needed help,
Speaker 1: and so that they would create an obvious, visible presence
Speaker 1: to clamp down on unrest by the dangerous classes. Now, again,
Speaker 1: uniforms would appear kind of scatter shot in different police departments,
Speaker 1: and not for never for all of the police, but
Speaker 1: for like some units and stuff would be uniformed for
Speaker 1: a period of time. Many officers resisted uniforms because again
Speaker 1: they're basically criminals, and it made them into a target.
Speaker 1: The very first like uniformly uniformed, like everybody wears a uniform,
Speaker 1: and that's that's part of the definition of what this
Speaker 1: this group is. The very first police force for that
Speaker 1: to be standard in was the Pennsylvania State Police. This
Speaker 1: is in the United States at least, so the Pennsylvania
Speaker 1: State Police the first explicitly fully uniformed police force we
Speaker 1: have in this country. Now. The Pennsylvania State Police were
Speaker 1: formed in nineteen o three in the wake of the
Speaker 1: Great Anthracite Coal Strike of ninete you know too. For reference,
Speaker 1: the strikers were fighting for a pay increase, a reduction
Speaker 1: from ten to eight hours a day in their work day,
Speaker 1: and a fairer system for weighing coal. This strike caused
Speaker 1: the price of coal to skyrocket right as winter hit,
Speaker 1: which put enormous pressure on the state government and on
Speaker 1: the federal government to put Pennsylvania's minds back to work,
Speaker 1: because Pennsylvania's like the fucking the coal basket. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So the Great Anthracite Coal Strikers were opposed by a
Speaker 1: mix of Pinkerton's who were essentially a mercenary police force.
Speaker 1: We'll talk more about him a bit later, and the
Speaker 1: Coal and Iron Police. Now, the Coal and Iron Police
Speaker 1: was a five thousand man army run by the coal
Speaker 1: companies in Pennsylvania but empowered and funded by the State
Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania to basically do whatever they had to do
Speaker 1: to break strikes. This generally involved terrific violence, and over
Speaker 1: the course of the Great Anthracite Coal Strike, the Coal
Speaker 1: and Iron Police gunned several people down. But the strikers
Speaker 1: were able to put pressure on mine owners for a
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty three straight days, and they eventually gained
Speaker 1: You know, modest concessions and they didn't get a raise
Speaker 1: in an eight hour work day, but they got a
Speaker 1: ten percent raise in a nine hour work day, so
Speaker 1: you know, take what you can. Yeah, oh this was okay. No,
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask the question, but I answered it myself.
Speaker 1: I mixed it with like I thought, maybe that was
Speaker 1: like the railway company guy that like started a city
Speaker 1: and had a Yeah, that's something else. Okay, never mind
Speaker 1: that is happening during this period, you know you're having
Speaker 1: and that the coal and iron police are kind of
Speaker 1: the same thing, Like they're these communities are all miners
Speaker 1: and using state partially ely state funds, the mine companies
Speaker 1: establish a police department to keep their minds in order
Speaker 1: and really to keep their workers from striking. So the
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania State Police was established after the Great Anthracite Coal
Speaker 1: Strike or Anthracite Strike whatever, because the state was governed
Speaker 1: by mine owners and their friends and the state wanted
Speaker 1: a dedicated paramilitary unit to violently suppress future strikes. The
Speaker 1: coal and iron police weren't good enough at their jobs.
Speaker 1: So this is where we get the first uniformed police
Speaker 1: department in US history. Is specifically, like we didn't kill
Speaker 1: enough people last time. We needed like a four that
Speaker 1: can really funk with people who go on strike. So
Speaker 1: in our last episode we discussed the fact that police
Speaker 1: departments in the American South evolved out of slave patrols,
Speaker 1: which were essentially a counter insurgency force. That similar evolution
Speaker 1: at least occurred elsewhere in the United States, even outside
Speaker 1: of the South. In eighteen ninety eight, the United States
Speaker 1: went to war with Spain, one of the least justified
Speaker 1: wars in our long history of unjustified wars. But because
Speaker 1: Spain was at the time also a terrible colonialist empire,
Speaker 1: the US wound up fighting them for control of the Philippines.
Speaker 1: Now Spain had controlled that massive islands quite brutally, and
Speaker 1: the US continued this tradition, murdering as many as two
Speaker 1: thousand civilians battling the insurgency that followed our occupation of
Speaker 1: the Philippines. Much of this murdering was done by the
Speaker 1: Philippine Constabulary, the occupation force our government put in place
Speaker 1: over those islands, and back in the United States, the
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania State Police were formed directly an imitation of the
Speaker 1: Philippine Constabulary. So yeah, the the and this is still
Speaker 1: the state Police in Pennsylvania today. They started out as
Speaker 1: people looking at Okay, you remember when we killed we
Speaker 1: committed that quasi genocide in the Philippines. What if we
Speaker 1: take all of that advice, use it to make the
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania State Police and have them sunk up anyone who
Speaker 1: goes on strike. That's where the Pennsylvania State Police come from.
Speaker 1: What the okay god Like, oh yeah, so Pennsylvania residence.
Speaker 1: The next time you see a Pennsylvania State Police car,
Speaker 1: be like, hey, man, granddad's an asshole anyway. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: So the Pennsylvania State Police were formed as an all white,
Speaker 1: all native meaning you know, born in the United States force.
Speaker 1: So that's what you mean by native. Yeah, exactly, white
Speaker 1: people born in the US, as opposed to white people
Speaker 1: who immigrated here, right, Like that's what they mean. Yeah, okay, buddy, yea.
Speaker 1: So the singular purpose of the Pennsylvania State Police was
Speaker 1: to break the strikes that increasingly popped up in Pennsylvania's
Speaker 1: coal fields near the turn of the century. Mine workers
Speaker 1: tended to be a mix of Irish, German, and Eastern
Speaker 1: European immigrants. A lot of checks were in this kind
Speaker 1: of like mining population also a lot of Russians and
Speaker 1: kind of people we don't call Russians today, but we're
Speaker 1: Russians back then because Russian was bigger um and it
Speaker 1: was only logical to the rich white mine owners and
Speaker 1: their friends in government that the same tactics that worked
Speaker 1: on undesirable races in Southeast Asia would also work on
Speaker 1: undesirable races right here in the United States. It was
Speaker 1: seen as critically important than to stop the Pennsylvania State
Speaker 1: Police from developing any kind of rapport from the people
Speaker 1: they controlled. The state police lived in special barracks is
Speaker 1: outside of the mining towns, and this was done to
Speaker 1: avoid any kind of social intermingling. The only time these
Speaker 1: people should see the folks that were policing is when
Speaker 1: they were cracking their fucking skulls the road horses to
Speaker 1: allow them to more effectively trample strikers. In nineteen o six,
Speaker 1: five thousand Windburg, Pennsylvania miners went on strike against their employer,
Speaker 1: the Berwin White Coal Mining Company. Berwin White was anti union,
Speaker 1: and the largely Slovak miners of wind Burr wanted to
Speaker 1: join the United Mine Workers. Of a mayor account, the
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania Police responded by riding into town, murdering three adult
Speaker 1: miners and one young boy, by firing wildly into crowds
Speaker 1: and brutally trampling anyone who fell down and letters home
Speaker 1: to their families. The immigrant miners referred to the Pennsylvania
Speaker 1: State Police as Cossacks. Do you know what the Cossacks were?
Speaker 1: I mean, they're still around, Like, where have I heard
Speaker 1: that word? It's um, it's an ethnic group in Russia,
Speaker 1: but it was during the period of the Czar. These
Speaker 1: were like basically kind of like these tribes of horse
Speaker 1: mounted warriors who the Tsar used as his shock troopers. Primarily,
Speaker 1: like they fought in wars, but like their biggest job
Speaker 1: was fucking up riots and protests and comedics and genocide occasionally. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So these people who are like used to the Czar
Speaker 1: sending in his Cossacks when there's unrest to murder people.
Speaker 1: They come to the US and they see the Pennsylvania
Speaker 1: police murdering them and they're like, oh, these are like
Speaker 1: the same fucking things as the Czar's shock troopers. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the risk you know, coming across the whole ocean before
Speaker 1: airplane just to get this, what are we even doing
Speaker 1: like it was different here. Yeah. Yeah, I'm like, Yo,
Speaker 1: this ain't like the five will American you know American
Speaker 1: tale story I thought was. I thought there was no
Speaker 1: cats in America. You know what I'm saying. This supposed
Speaker 1: to be better when we get here. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: y'all came by choice. So that's the part where I'm
Speaker 1: just like, why didn't you all look at each other
Speaker 1: and be like, you know what, guys, this was a
Speaker 1: bad call. Beer's worse too, beers. So on a related note,
Speaker 1: while doing my research, I came across a January article
Speaker 1: in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette about Pennsylvania State Police. In
Speaker 1: case you're curious about how the Pennsylvania State Police is
Speaker 1: doing to day, this article points out that in two
Speaker 1: thousand two, following a New Jersey scandal overr state troopers
Speaker 1: engaging in racial profiling, the Pennsylvania State Police began collecting
Speaker 1: racial data on their traffic stops and sending it to
Speaker 1: the University of Cincinnati for analysis and to its credit.
Speaker 1: To their credit, the data revealed that the Pennsylvania State
Speaker 1: Police were not exhibiting in racial bias and who they
Speaker 1: pulled over. So that's nice. However, the data did show
Speaker 1: that they were exhibiting hell of bias when it came
Speaker 1: to who they searched. Troopers were two to three times
Speaker 1: as likely to search black or Hispanic drivers as white drivers,
Speaker 1: even though black and Hispanic drivers were vastly less likely
Speaker 1: to have contraband on their persons than white drivers. Now
Speaker 1: and again, this is pretty true across the nation, but
Speaker 1: it was specifically true for the Pennsylvania State Police. They're
Speaker 1: like three times as likely to search you if you're
Speaker 1: black or Hispanic, but white people are the ones actually
Speaker 1: bringing all the drugs in. So when this data was
Speaker 1: made public, the Pennsylvania State Police ended their relationship with
Speaker 1: the University of Cincinnati because the University of Cincinnati show
Speaker 1: that they were being racist as hell. Uh. And the
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania State Police is now the largest of only eleven
Speaker 1: statewide law enforcement agencies in the nation who do not
Speaker 1: collect racial data during stops. Wow, so that's good, good
Speaker 1: on you. Okay there it is Pennsylvania State Police. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if I can, if I can draw some logical like
Speaker 1: ties with this one, like you know why and brown
Speaker 1: people are less likely to have contraband on them is
Speaker 1: because we more likely to be searched. That's just as reels.
Speaker 1: It's real simple, you know, like you know, so we're
Speaker 1: not gonna have it on us, right also and and
Speaker 1: I a little a little tangent on this, but like
Speaker 1: your and it's so crazy that like it's it's all
Speaker 1: out of this fear of these you know, this dangerous class.
Speaker 1: But like the truth is, we're probably not gonna rob
Speaker 1: that Chad or Tyler or Hunter or Karen because the
Speaker 1: police will come if we rob you. So the truth
Speaker 1: is you're actually more safe than the rest of us
Speaker 1: because because if one of us die, if one of
Speaker 1: us get robbed, please don't care, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: But but I know the police come in if if
Speaker 1: Karen has issues. So it's such a like this like
Speaker 1: this this bias that like is just a reality of
Speaker 1: our life, you know. In some ways, again, I get
Speaker 1: how it's worked. If we're talking sheer pragmatism in favor
Speaker 1: for this white ruling class, which is why we called
Speaker 1: it privilege. If you can't follow along, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like it's but it's just it's but it's privileged,
Speaker 1: but not how you think it's. Like it's it's different.
Speaker 1: It's not it's not the way you set it up for. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's this thing. It's like there was that video going
Speaker 1: around of I don't know a week or so ago
Speaker 1: and maybe a wee get into the protests when like
Speaker 1: those I think it was in l A. This like
Speaker 1: big group of like white people all like recited a
Speaker 1: thing renouncing their white privilege, and I'm like, it doesn't
Speaker 1: work like that. You can't just it's guys. Thanks, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you feel good. But like now, if you
Speaker 1: were to get rid of the l A p D,
Speaker 1: then you actually have reduced your white privilege. That's that's
Speaker 1: a step then you have. Yeah, I'm like you could
Speaker 1: just like use it for good, you know. Like there's
Speaker 1: that I'm saying. Yeah, it's so funny. It's like we're
Speaker 1: like man, some some some somebody somebody's And it sucks
Speaker 1: to say it because I'm like, I am deeply and
Speaker 1: intimately involved with and love white progressive circles. I am involved,
Speaker 1: These are my friends, is in my family, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Um, But it's so funny to watch
Speaker 1: them like simultaneously do the most and nothing at all
Speaker 1: at the same time. You know what I'm saying, like
Speaker 1: that's such a such a grand statement to be like
Speaker 1: I'm denouncing my privilege, but that literally does nothing for me.
Speaker 1: So like it's like it's it's I can't It's like
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what to tell you guys,
Speaker 1: Like I just just you know, treat us fairly and
Speaker 1: help us to fund the police. That's all. Like, you know,
Speaker 1: you ain't gotta what fun you what we wearing a
Speaker 1: kintake cloth for, Like, just make some good laws, makes
Speaker 1: some good laws. Just makes some good laws or remove
Speaker 1: bad ones either helps, just just one of in things.
Speaker 1: Thank you appreciate it. I see you're we're here, we're listening.
Speaker 1: I see it. Can you just like make some laws though,
Speaker 1: you know, unfuncked the fun a little bit. Yeah anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that feels like a good note to take a break on.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, speaking of unfucking the funcknus. You know
Speaker 1: what what fuck the funcknus? More is these product Executive
Speaker 1: producer Paris Hilton brings back the hit podcast How Men Think,
Speaker 1: And that's good news for anyone that is confused by men,
Speaker 1: which is basically everyone get an inside look at what
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Speaker 1: It's real talk, straight from the source. How Men Think
Speaker 1: podcast is exactly what we need to figure them out.
Speaker 1: It's going to be fun and formative and probably a
Speaker 1: bit scary at times, because we're literally going inside the
Speaker 1: minds of men. As much as we like to think
Speaker 1: all men are the same, they're actually very different. Each week,
Speaker 1: a celebrity guest host provides honest advice in his area
Speaker 1: of expertise. When I agreed to do this reboot, I
Speaker 1: had a few conditions. No sugarcoating, no mind games, and
Speaker 1: absolutely no man splaining. Men are hard enough to understand
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Speaker 1: in to learn how to turn liabilities into assets and
Speaker 1: make your money move Subscribe to the Money Moves podcast
Speaker 1: powered by Greenland on the I Heart Radio app or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, and make sure you leave
Speaker 1: a review. I'm Jake Halbern, host of deep Cover. Our
Speaker 1: new season is about a lawyer who helped the mob
Speaker 1: run Chicago. We controlled the courts, We controlled absolutely everything.
Speaker 1: He bribed judges and even helped a hit man walk
Speaker 1: free until one day when he started talking with the
Speaker 1: FBI and promised that he could take the mob down.
Speaker 1: I've spent the past year trying to figure out why
Speaker 1: he flipped and what he was really after. From my perspective,
Speaker 1: Bob was too good to be true. There's gotta be
Speaker 1: something wrong with this. I wouldn't trust that guy. He
Speaker 1: looks like a little scum, big lawyer, stool bidging you
Speaker 1: looked like what he was or at. I can say
Speaker 1: with all certainty I think he's a hero because he
Speaker 1: didn't have to do what he did, and he did
Speaker 1: it anyway. The moment I put the wire around the
Speaker 1: first time, my life was over. If it ever got out,
Speaker 1: they would kill me in a heartbeat. Listen to deep
Speaker 1: Cover on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. We're back and we're talking
Speaker 1: about for good. And one way you can use your
Speaker 1: privilege to good for good is I don't know, if
Speaker 1: you're listening and you happen to have purple heart plates
Speaker 1: and you have a bunch of friends who have to
Speaker 1: drive substances somewhere, maybe you ought to be the one
Speaker 1: driving the substances because the police aren't going to give
Speaker 1: a shit about you. That's what I'm saying. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Yeah, veterans for drug smuggling. Is that, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: record that. Like, I'm not trying to go hard. I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to go hard at my wife progressives like
Speaker 1: I appreciate all in the costs. It's just I just
Speaker 1: want to say that, Okay, this is fun day. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's worth considering, within the broader context of the development
Speaker 1: of US law enforcement that the cops did not always
Speaker 1: site enthusiastically when cap with capital when it came to
Speaker 1: struggles over labor. We previously did a two part episode
Speaker 1: on the Battle of Blair Mountain, which was a massive
Speaker 1: coal strike that ended it in an enormous, pitched battle
Speaker 1: that included aerial bombardment, machine guns, and thousands of combatants
Speaker 1: on both sides. One of the great Union heroes of
Speaker 1: that whole mess was Sheriff sid Hatfield, who gunned down
Speaker 1: several mercenaries from the Baldwin Felts detective agencies. Many strikes
Speaker 1: did take place in small communities out in the middle
Speaker 1: of nowhere, and law enforcement in those places was much
Speaker 1: more kind of rooted in public spirit, these old attitudes
Speaker 1: of what law enforcement should be, than kind of the
Speaker 1: new attitudes about law enforcement. And in those cases, you know,
Speaker 1: cops who were sort of like elected or brought up
Speaker 1: within the community and felt like a part of it,
Speaker 1: and the community was all Union law enforcement would regularly
Speaker 1: side with the strikers in those situations, or it would
Speaker 1: at least feel too frightened of their neighbors to enthusiastically
Speaker 1: back the mind companies. And this was enough of a problem.
Speaker 1: This wasn't everywhere, but it was enough of a problem.
Speaker 1: That's Starting in the eighteen seventies, capitalists also began using
Speaker 1: private police as strikebreakers with increasing frequency, and no private
Speaker 1: police agency did a better job of this than the Pinkerton's.
Speaker 1: You know about the Pinkerton's. We're talking some Pinkerton's now
Speaker 1: I do know about the Pinkers. Yeah, we're talking about
Speaker 1: some motherfucking Pinkerton's. She's yeah, we're gonna have to do
Speaker 1: a whole two partner probably in the Pinkerton's at some point.
Speaker 1: But but you can't talk about the history of US
Speaker 1: law enforcement talking about some motherfucking Pinkerton's. Yes, yeah, the
Speaker 1: cock sucking Pinkerton's to pull pull from fucking deadwood. Yum,
Speaker 1: So here it goes. Allan Pinkerton was born in Glasgow, Scotland,
Speaker 1: in eighteen nineteen. His father was a policeman of the
Speaker 1: for profit freelance Variety and he was killed on the job.
Speaker 1: So Alan grew up dirt poor, laboring from an early
Speaker 1: age to help keep his family fed. He became an
Speaker 1: activist in his youth, agitating for democratic reform in Great Britain,
Speaker 1: and he was violenced by the state for speaking out
Speaker 1: against it. By eighteen forty two, he had been forced
Speaker 1: to flee the country with his wife. The pair wound
Speaker 1: up living in Dundee, Illinois, and Allan set up barrel
Speaker 1: making business. In eighteen forty seven, year old Allan Pinkerton
Speaker 1: traveled out to an uninhabited island to look for wood
Speaker 1: that he could make into more barrels, because that was
Speaker 1: his thing. He found a campsite there, and the camp
Speaker 1: site was abandoned but clearly fresh. And because he was
Speaker 1: a born and bred cop, this guy was like kind
Speaker 1: of in his fucking bones a cop. H Allen decided
Speaker 1: not to mind his own damn business. He returned to
Speaker 1: that night and hid nearby until the camp's occupants, a
Speaker 1: group of counterfeiters, returned. Alan instantly went to the sheriff
Speaker 1: and reported them, and the gang was arrested. So not
Speaker 1: my kind of dude, but like fundamentally a cop, like
Speaker 1: emotionally a cop. So counterfeiting was a massive problem for
Speaker 1: business owners in the yearly United States, and the local
Speaker 1: merchants made Pinkerton into a hero for busting this group.
Speaker 1: He started getting offers to investigate other crimes, and very
Speaker 1: quickly Allan Pinkerton had become the go to man for
Speaker 1: busting counterfeit coin operations in Illinois. He was soon deputized
Speaker 1: by the sheriff of Kane County, Illinois, and in eighteen
Speaker 1: forty nine he became the city of Chicago's first full
Speaker 1: time detective. By eighteen fifth, Alan founded Pinkerton's Detective Agency.
Speaker 1: In less than twenty years, it had expanded to include
Speaker 1: branches in New York and Philadelphia. Allen quickly expanded outside
Speaker 1: of just detective work. He created Pinkerton's Protective Police Patrol,
Speaker 1: a group of uniformed night watchmen that local businesses could
Speaker 1: hire to protect their shops. Pinkerton men, some of whom
Speaker 1: were women, also acted as undercover cops, often feeding information
Speaker 1: on criminal syndicates directly to regular police. The Pinkerton's grew
Speaker 1: to become a legendary force in the Old West, helping
Speaker 1: to hunt down criminals like Jesse James, and there is
Speaker 1: some moral complexity years This isn't an easy story because
Speaker 1: while Alan Pinkerton was absolutely just a total fucking cop,
Speaker 1: he was also a really staunch and consistent abolitionist. Part
Speaker 1: of what drew him to hunt down Jesse James was
Speaker 1: the fact that James had been an enthusiastic Confederate soldier. Pinkerton, meanwhile,
Speaker 1: had worked for the Underground Railroad and had helped to
Speaker 1: guard Abraham Lincoln. But even when pinkerton targets were clearly
Speaker 1: bad people like James, their methods were often still unaccountably brutal.
Speaker 1: The Pinkerton Agency actually rated Jesse James's house. It was
Speaker 1: basically like a no knock raid that they carried out,
Speaker 1: and they fucked up and attacked during a time when
Speaker 1: James was not present, and instead, during the raid they
Speaker 1: blew off his mother's arm and murdered his eight and
Speaker 1: a half year old younger brother. Um like, yeah, this, this,
Speaker 1: this is a fucking no knock right, yeah, so again,
Speaker 1: even when they picked the right bad guys, they wound
Speaker 1: up murdering an eight year old. She's not great. Not great.
Speaker 1: So later in life, Allan Pinkerton hit upon the brilliant
Speaker 1: idea of writing semi fictionalized accounts of the most famous
Speaker 1: detective cases in Pinkerton history, and these books became some
Speaker 1: of the very first true crime stories in the history
Speaker 1: of literature. But while the agency was famous for tales
Speaker 1: of sleuthing and daring do while confronting bandits and bank robbers,
Speaker 1: the bulk of the Pinkerton Agency's business came from protecting
Speaker 1: capital by fighting labor. The first Pinkerton strike breakers were
Speaker 1: hired in eighteen sixty six when miners in Illinois went
Speaker 1: on strike and the mining company needed protection for their scabs,
Speaker 1: which are the people like the company rings in to
Speaker 1: work the minds when the workers refuse. Now, over the years,
Speaker 1: the Pickerton has developed a standard set of procedures, with
Speaker 1: armed men escorting scabs into factories and mines while Pinkerton
Speaker 1: guards and towers aimed machine guns at strikers to keep
Speaker 1: them away. Alan Pinkerton died in eighteen eighty four, and
Speaker 1: his son took over the agency and doubled down on
Speaker 1: strike breaking. By eighteen nine two, the Pinkerton's had helped
Speaker 1: to break seventy seven strikes. Now, after eighteen nine two,
Speaker 1: though the agency really stopped doing as much over at
Speaker 1: strike breaking. They shifted more into industrial espionage and infiltrating
Speaker 1: labor movements rather than confronting them with guns. And the
Speaker 1: reason for this was because of a vicious battle that
Speaker 1: took place in the town of Homestead, Pennsylvania. Here we go, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the Homestead strike, So we go. Homestead was a steel
Speaker 1: town built around and for a huge steel plant owned
Speaker 1: by the Carnegie Steel Company. You know, you've all we
Speaker 1: all here know the Carnegie Foundation. We hear about them
Speaker 1: in like PBS and ship. Yeah, this is where that
Speaker 1: money comes from. So in eighteen ninety there of rolled
Speaker 1: steel products that started to fall and the manager of
Speaker 1: the Homestead plant, a dude named Henry Frick, decided to
Speaker 1: cut wages. Neither his wages nor his boss are Andrew
Speaker 1: Carnegie's wages were to be cut, of course, and in fact,
Speaker 1: to maintain their wages, they had to take the company
Speaker 1: losses out of their workers pockets, and they decided the
Speaker 1: best way to do that was to destroy the Amalgamated
Speaker 1: Association of Iron and Steel Workers, which was at the
Speaker 1: time the nation's largest craft union. Now here's where it
Speaker 1: gets interesting, because Andrew Carnegie was, you know, one of
Speaker 1: the good ones if we're talking about millionaires, Like that's
Speaker 1: how a lot of people would have viewed him at
Speaker 1: the time. Um, he was vocally pro labor, Like he
Speaker 1: made public statements in favor of labor and saying that
Speaker 1: unions had a reason to exist. And this was in
Speaker 1: keeping with his reputation as a philanthropist, you know, a
Speaker 1: millionaire you could trust. But of course, the instant his
Speaker 1: profits were threatened, Carnegie had no time for the union
Speaker 1: anymore and resisted, uh like efforts, Yeah exactly. So like
Speaker 1: he's he's like, yeah, unions are fine when the money
Speaker 1: is good, but when his money has threatened, unions gotta go.
Speaker 1: That's Andrew carneg Yeah, it sounds about right, sounds about right.
Speaker 1: So in the in the spring of eight two, Carnegie
Speaker 1: instructed Frick to push company workers to make as much
Speaker 1: steel as possible before the union contract expired that June,
Speaker 1: because the union contract expired and then they were gonna
Speaker 1: have to negotiate a new one, and the union didn't
Speaker 1: want to make less money, but Carnegie wanted to pay
Speaker 1: them less. So if the union had failed to accept
Speaker 1: the new terms that Carnegie and Frick offered, Andrew was
Speaker 1: just going to have the plant managers shut the factory
Speaker 1: down until the laborers were lented. He wrote to Frick,
Speaker 1: we approve of every anything you do. We are with
Speaker 1: you to the end. Now Carnegie wasn't physically with Frick,
Speaker 1: how of course, he was off at one of his
Speaker 1: many palaces. This one was in Scotland, just kind of
Speaker 1: chilling um. So Frick was left to figure out how
Speaker 1: to confront labor on his own. And I'm going to
Speaker 1: quote now from a write up on the strike and
Speaker 1: PBSS American Experience Series with Carnegie's carte blaunch support, Frick
Speaker 1: moved to slash wages. Plant workers were responded by hanging
Speaker 1: freaking effigy. The union fought not just for better wages,
Speaker 1: but also for a say in America's new industrial order.
Speaker 1: Though Carnegie and Frick had brought unions to heal at
Speaker 1: their other mills, Homestead remained untamed. Workers believe that because
Speaker 1: they had worked in the mill, they had mixed their
Speaker 1: labor with the property of the mill. Explains historian Paul Krauss.
Speaker 1: They believed that in some way the property had become theirs,
Speaker 1: not that it wasn't Andrew Carnegie's, not that they were
Speaker 1: the sole proprietors of the mill, but that they had
Speaker 1: an entitlement to the mill. And I think, in a
Speaker 1: fundamental way, the conflict at Homestead in two was about
Speaker 1: these two conflicting ideas of property. Now, on June, Freak
Speaker 1: announced that he would no longer negotiate with the union.
Speaker 1: Now he would only deal with the workers individually. Leaders
Speaker 1: had amalgamated were willing to concede on almost every level
Speaker 1: except the dissolution of their union. On June, despite the
Speaker 1: union's willingness to negotiate, Frick closed down his open hearth
Speaker 1: and armor plate mills, locking out thirty eight hundred men.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot that's interesting here. One of them
Speaker 1: is that like a lot of these guys, you know,
Speaker 1: these guys aren't super educated, they haven't read you know,
Speaker 1: their marks or whatever, but they kind of recognized this
Speaker 1: idea of like, oh, you know, not that worker. They
Speaker 1: weren't like workers should own the means of production, but
Speaker 1: they were like workers should co own the means of production. Yeahatly,
Speaker 1: that's kind of the idea. These guys kind of come
Speaker 1: to of their own accord. Now, the union men desperately
Speaker 1: tried to contact Andrew Carnegie once a Frick closed the plant,
Speaker 1: because again they thought he was a good guy, like
Speaker 1: he'd said that unions were okay. They thought that he
Speaker 1: just didn't understand what was really happening because he was
Speaker 1: so distant, and if they if they could let him
Speaker 1: know how bad things for the were for them and
Speaker 1: how bad Frick was treating them, then he would back them.
Speaker 1: But of course Andrew Carnegie didn't give a shit about
Speaker 1: these people. He was on vacation and he had no
Speaker 1: time for them. He did, however, have time for Frick.
Speaker 1: He advised Frick that now was their time to destroy
Speaker 1: the union, believing that his workers would surely give it
Speaker 1: up if it meant keeping their jobs, even it reduced salary.
Speaker 1: His workers disagreed. Only seven hundred and fifty homestead men
Speaker 1: had belonged to the union before all this happened, but
Speaker 1: three thousand of the plants thirty eight hundred workers agreed
Speaker 1: to strike once Frick closed the doors. Now to combat them,
Speaker 1: Frick built a fortress to keep them out, including a
Speaker 1: twelve foot high, three mile long fence topped with barbed wire.
Speaker 1: Deputy sheriffs were sworn in to man the fence with rifles.
Speaker 1: But those sheriffs and their families lived in Homestead, and
Speaker 1: when three thousands of their neighbors marched on Fort Frick,
Speaker 1: as it was known, all these deputy sheriffs were like,
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not gonna kill all these people I
Speaker 1: live with. Like, that's that seems like a bad call.
Speaker 1: So they laid down their arms and left. Now workers
Speaker 1: then occupied the plant and effectively took over the entire
Speaker 1: town of Homestead for the very first time in American history.
Speaker 1: Laborers had quite literally seized the means of production. Now
Speaker 1: Andrew Carnegie was not a fan of this. He didn't
Speaker 1: take it lying down. Well, he actually probably was lying
Speaker 1: down in Scotland, but he hired a bunch of armed
Speaker 1: Pinkerton's to not take it lying down. For so, the
Speaker 1: Pinkerton's three d and some out of them got on
Speaker 1: a bunch of a couple of barges and attempted an
Speaker 1: aquatic landing at Homestead, essentially a sort of capitalist Normandy,
Speaker 1: or more accurately Gliboli. The heavily armed Pinkerton's expected this
Speaker 1: to be like any of the other dozens of strike
Speaker 1: they broken. You know, they might have to gun down
Speaker 1: a few people, but these dirt poor factory serfs surely
Speaker 1: would not be able to compete with their modern Winchester rifles.
Speaker 1: Three mercenaries with modern guns were sure to be enough
Speaker 1: to break Homesteads resistance. And again Carnegie and Frick had
Speaker 1: underestimated the men of Homestead, as one leader recalled to
Speaker 1: be confronted with a gang of loafers and cutthroats from
Speaker 1: all over the country coming here there as they thought
Speaker 1: to take their jobs. Why they naturally wanted to go
Speaker 1: down and defend their homes and their property with their
Speaker 1: lives with force if necessary. Course, yeah, and defend their
Speaker 1: lives the men of Homestead did. When the Pinkerton's landed,
Speaker 1: they were warned not to step off their barge. When
Speaker 1: they ignored that warning, people started fucking shooting at them,
Speaker 1: and a huge gun battle began. And yeah, yeah, yeah
Speaker 1: that movie. Where's that movie? I know there might be
Speaker 1: a movie about it. They probably there should be. More so,
Speaker 1: the Pinkerton's used their steel barges as floating bunkers, firing
Speaker 1: out at a crowd of Homestead citizenry. The homesteaders had
Speaker 1: shipped for guns, mostly a handful of hunting rifles and
Speaker 1: old muskets, but they had a lot of those, and
Speaker 1: they also had a twenty ound cannon that they got
Speaker 1: from somewhere. They had dynamite, which they tossed like grenades.
Speaker 1: A local hardware merchant donated all of the ammunition in
Speaker 1: his store to the crowd, and for twelve hours the
Speaker 1: gun battle raged on. By six am the next day,
Speaker 1: more than five thousand spectators from Pittsburgh had shown up
Speaker 1: to watch from the river banks. At eight am, Yes,
Speaker 1: like a live movie. Yeah, we gotta go see the war.
Speaker 1: There's a war going on. Next. All, Yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: I'll take a look. Yeah. By eight am, the Pinkerton's
Speaker 1: had tried to land again. Workers fired their cannon and
Speaker 1: attempted to scuttle the barges by ramming them with both
Speaker 1: a burning raft and a burning railroad car. None of
Speaker 1: this quite worked. Yeah, they were. They were really given
Speaker 1: it a shot. They committed just like, look, look, yeah,
Speaker 1: we can't shoot through these barges, but we can throw
Speaker 1: giant flaming things at the barges and that'll probably funk
Speaker 1: them up a bit. Now. None of this sunk the barges,
Speaker 1: but the sheer of fire from the crowd was terrifying
Speaker 1: to the Pinkerton's who cowered inside. One recalled the noise
Speaker 1: that they made on the shore was awful, and it
Speaker 1: made us shake in our boots. We were pinned in
Speaker 1: like rats, and we went at the fighting like desperate
Speaker 1: wild men. All of the men were under the beds
Speaker 1: and bunks, crying and trembling. Another Pinkertons werecalled. It was
Speaker 1: a place of torment. When men were lying around, wounded
Speaker 1: and bleeding and piteously begging someone to give them a
Speaker 1: drink of water, but no one dared to get a drop,
Speaker 1: although water was all around us. It was a wonder
Speaker 1: we did not all go crazy or commit suicide. The
Speaker 1: Pinkerton's tried to surrender four times, and each white flag
Speaker 1: they rose up was shot down by a sniper on
Speaker 1: the board, Like we're not done shooting it, you guys yet, friendship. Yeah. Eventually,
Speaker 1: though the crowd did except the Pinkerton's surrender. The mercenary
Speaker 1: cops were led onto the shore, beaten and clubbed and
Speaker 1: pelted with stones as they were taken to the local
Speaker 1: jail and eventually sent out of town by train. Three
Speaker 1: to eight Pinkerton's were killed, along with a similar number
Speaker 1: of strikers, and dozens and dozens of people were wounded.
Speaker 1: It was a victory for the laboring folks of Homestead,
Speaker 1: but sadly, not one that lasted. Frick next asked the
Speaker 1: governor to send in the militia, and since the state
Speaker 1: government basically existed to serve the desires of wealthy mine
Speaker 1: owners and the like, the government said yes. The strikers
Speaker 1: knew better than to try to do battle with the
Speaker 1: militia who had machine guns, and so they surrendered. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Homestead was put under martial law Carnegie was able to
Speaker 1: move in his scab workers. And of course this is
Speaker 1: where things get morally complex again because the scab workers
Speaker 1: Carnegie picks were a lot of them were black, UM
Speaker 1: and in fact these were like the very first black
Speaker 1: steel workers in the state. UM. And this led to
Speaker 1: a horrible race riot, as two thousand white union men
Speaker 1: assaulted fifty black families and a number of people were
Speaker 1: badly injured in the resulting gun battle. And this is
Speaker 1: a regular story throughout the labor movement, is like, our
Speaker 1: workers are on strike, black people, we can bring them in,
Speaker 1: we can pay them less, um and like it'll it'll
Speaker 1: like they don't like there's not a solidarity between these
Speaker 1: poor black and these poor white people, UM for obvious reasons,
Speaker 1: because poor people real shitty to poor black people. But
Speaker 1: like it provided an opportunity for people at Carnegie. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: who desperately needed work. And yeah, yep, yep, not great.
Speaker 1: It's complicated, complicated history here. By November of eight two,
Speaker 1: the Amalgamated Union was finished. Strike leaders were charged with
Speaker 1: murder and a hundred and sixty union men were charged
Speaker 1: with lesser crimes. Now, local juries did refuse to convict
Speaker 1: them because again the juries were made up of the
Speaker 1: people who had taken part in this uprising. But this
Speaker 1: was the end of unionization in Homestead for a while.
Speaker 1: Once victory was well and truly achieved, Carnegie cabled Frick
Speaker 1: Life worth living again, first happy morning since July. To celebrate,
Speaker 1: he immediately cut wages, expanded the workday a twelve hours,
Speaker 1: and fired five hundred people. Good stuff. Good stuff. But
Speaker 1: after Homestead, the Pinkerton's were never quite the same, and
Speaker 1: it would be fair to say that the whole experience
Speaker 1: made the agency a lot less willing to go engage
Speaker 1: in physical aggression. But the agency still exists to this
Speaker 1: day and still works as a private least force for
Speaker 1: the rich and powerful. In two thousand and eighteen, when
Speaker 1: workers for Frontier Communications went on striking West Virginia and
Speaker 1: Normal Virginia, the company hired the Pinkerton Agency, now part
Speaker 1: of Securitas, a massive Swedish corporation. Pinkerton basically acts as
Speaker 1: a rentable FBI for mega corporations dealing with labor disputes.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote now from a write up in The
Speaker 1: New Republic. Okay, wait before you quote this, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: did you say, West Virginia and regular Virginia. I sure
Speaker 1: did that? Is I say this as a statement of fact.
Speaker 1: I attribute no value, good or bad to this statement.
Speaker 1: But West Virginia is a time warp. I'm like, West
Speaker 1: Virginia is currently a hundred years ago. Yeah, it's certainly
Speaker 1: not regular Virginia. Yes, So when you said that, and
Speaker 1: it's something that you know, I'm gonna group text with
Speaker 1: a tow different touring artists, like we're all just homies,
Speaker 1: but we all talked about like yo, I feel like
Speaker 1: West Virginia is back to the future, Like it's the
Speaker 1: Internet hasn't been invented in West Virginia, Like we don't
Speaker 1: what why is this state forty years ago? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a trip to me anyway. So West Virginia and
Speaker 1: regular Virginia. Just I I almost feel vindicated that I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm not the only person me and my eight
Speaker 1: friends and the only people that feel like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: understand what's happening in West Virginia right now. Like I
Speaker 1: feel like everyone who has driven from regular Virginia to
Speaker 1: Western Virginia immediately had the realization like, oh, I'm not
Speaker 1: in regular Virginia any This isn't Virginia anymore. I don't
Speaker 1: even know why it's both called. Yeah, should change our
Speaker 1: name because this is this is not the same North Carolina,
Speaker 1: South Carolina. A few differences Carolinas, but you're Carolinas, Virginia,
Speaker 1: West Virginia. That's a different planet. I mean, I'll say
Speaker 1: there's a big South Dakota North Dakota split. But also
Speaker 1: why the two there's like nine people in both states?
Speaker 1: Come poppy seeds? Is nine people poppy seeds in Dakotas? Yes,
Speaker 1: all right, we've anyway, I just read the quote. I
Speaker 1: just had to acknowledge regular Virginia. That's how I feel.
Speaker 1: That's how I feel. Yeah. So, in the modern day,
Speaker 1: the Pinkerton Agency, basically and it's just called Pinkerton, now
Speaker 1: acts as a rentable FBI for megacorporations fucking over their workers.
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote now from a write up in
Speaker 1: The New Republic. Pinkerton is hardly the only firm to
Speaker 1: advertise such services, but its history sets it apart, and
Speaker 1: the company embraces its legacy with one called to Pinkerton,
Speaker 1: you gain access to our global networker resources, providing boots
Speaker 1: on the ground when and where you need them. It
Speaker 1: promises a securitis aid for the firm, lists labor demonstrations
Speaker 1: as among the risks it can monitor. Trouble can happen
Speaker 1: anytime anywhere. A narrator in tones tones tone is just
Speaker 1: so treating and I had a physical response to that,
Speaker 1: like any Uh. The Pinkerton promise is attractive to some
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley firms. The Guardian reported on March sixteenth that
Speaker 1: Facebook and Google have both retained Pinkerton to monitor staff
Speaker 1: for leaks. Among other services, Pinkerton offers to send investigators
Speaker 1: to coffee shops or restaurants near a company's campus to
Speaker 1: eavesdrop on employee conversations. Olivia Salon reported, Pinkerton's still out there,
Speaker 1: still fucking with labor. Yeah, just just rich boy hall monitors. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what if they relaxed, bro? Yeah, you know how you
Speaker 1: know how little accountability the FBI has currently? What if
Speaker 1: it just had none? Okay, guys, stay with me here,
Speaker 1: FBI that we could pay to do whatever we want. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like you know how that FBI agent who was doing
Speaker 1: a backflip at a club and accidentally shot that guy
Speaker 1: when his gun fall out. You know who he got
Speaker 1: in trouble. What if there was even less accountability than that.
Speaker 1: I almost I almost forgot that happened. Yeah, oh my
Speaker 1: wild that happened. Yes, good lord. Wow. So Prop, we're
Speaker 1: at the end of another episode, another chapter in police history.
Speaker 1: UM I haven't as of yet finished writing the third episode.
Speaker 1: But we're gonna talk something about the KKK. We're gonna
Speaker 1: talk some about lynchings. We're gonna talk some about how
Speaker 1: the police departments stopped lynchings by just deciding to torture
Speaker 1: black people instead. It's not gonna be it's not pretty good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: talking about l APD recruiting Southern people from post gym. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to talk about that something. Yeah. We
Speaker 1: have a lot more to talk about, but for now,
Speaker 1: what we should talk about is your plug doubles. Yes, uh,
Speaker 1: PROP hip hop dot com. Uh, that's all the poetry
Speaker 1: in the in the music and the art and the
Speaker 1: uh the coffee paraphernalia and the podcasts um hood politics
Speaker 1: and the red ouchpod couches me and my wife hood
Speaker 1: politics exactly what it sounds like. I'm basically taking all
Speaker 1: that you know about politics and just explaining them in
Speaker 1: street terms. Um. As to a lot of ways. I
Speaker 1: just I really just want people to like realize your
Speaker 1: politicians aren't smarter than you. You just you you think
Speaker 1: you're you think you don't belong at the table. But
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to tell you is what this whole
Speaker 1: episode in series has proven. They just people and they
Speaker 1: just gang banging. They're just gang bang it. So if
Speaker 1: you understand, if you accept that your politicians are gangbangers
Speaker 1: in all, this is just gang life, you can understand politics.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the thing. Like that Nobody
Speaker 1: Speak video that like it did real well, it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, this is like all these people, these are
Speaker 1: just different gangs, and we decide this gang gets all
Speaker 1: the respect. This is basically it. You know, when when okay,
Speaker 1: so when we all know, I mean, I like, really
Speaker 1: name a Republican politician that actually likes Donald Trump? Like
Speaker 1: y'all don't like him, but I get it. He's from
Speaker 1: your hood. So since he's from your hood, you keep
Speaker 1: your mouth shut in public. That's just that's why nobody's talking.
Speaker 1: That's why he told the lines like from my hood.
Speaker 1: I can't. I mean, he's eat from my hood. I
Speaker 1: get it. Yeah, don't you don't you sell a shirt
Speaker 1: that says, uh, yes, you ever a shirt that politics
Speaker 1: is just gang banging or something like that. Yeah, politics
Speaker 1: is gangbanging in nice suits. Yeah, that's the T shirt.
Speaker 1: Oh and I actually I'm gonna help your plug. I
Speaker 1: ordered the worst year ever T shirt. It's not here
Speaker 1: yet store, and they'll get it at that Synergy. I
Speaker 1: like the one. Here's a shirt that store that says
Speaker 1: Republican Democrat. I'll awake. I was like, okay, I need that.
Speaker 1: I need that immediately. I do want to what we're
Speaker 1: talking about gangs and what they are in reality. I
Speaker 1: wanted to have you ever heard of Smedley Butler? Prop
Speaker 1: I want to talk about Smedley Butler for just a second.
Speaker 1: Before he put down put Smedley Butler was a major general.
Speaker 1: He's one of the highest decorated soldiers in US history.
Speaker 1: Home did one two Medals of honor Um for gallantry
Speaker 1: under fire, and became a hardcore anti capitalist in in
Speaker 1: his his later days. I want to quote from like
Speaker 1: two different speeches of his. I spent thirty three years
Speaker 1: and four months in active military service as a member
Speaker 1: of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps.
Speaker 1: I served in all commissioned ranks, from second lieutenant to
Speaker 1: major general, and during that period I spent most of
Speaker 1: my time being a high class muscle man for big business,
Speaker 1: for Wall Street and for the bankers. In short, I
Speaker 1: was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. She's yeah, She's yeah,
Speaker 1: Smedley Butler, Smedley Butler, you said you said that, you
Speaker 1: said the quiet thing out loud. Yeah, and it's and
Speaker 1: it's like and it's the obvious. Yeah. Day, alright, alright, dude,
Speaker 1: we got some Smedley in here. We'll can be back
Speaker 1: to cops in part three. Have a great one, everybody,
Speaker 1: Thank you again, prop and thank you. See you all
Speaker 1: next week with more of the Police. Not the Band,
Speaker 1: Not the Band Behind the Police is a production of
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