Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff
Speaker 1: I've never told you protection of iHeart Radio. For today's episode,
Speaker 1: we wanted to start with a quick trigger warning. We
Speaker 1: are going to be discussing sexual assaults, abuse, rape, and
Speaker 1: grooming because what we're talking about sort of an update
Speaker 1: on what's going on in the world of me too
Speaker 1: and how how much this continued conversation of sexual harassment
Speaker 1: an uneven power dynamic used again control is still ongoing
Speaker 1: and important and something we shouldn't forget about and we're
Speaker 1: seeing it and so many different industries take place, So
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about some of that today and
Speaker 1: also a lot of this is happening very quickly, so
Speaker 1: just put a time stamp on this one. We are
Speaker 1: recording on June, and I think I was seeing updates
Speaker 1: like right before we came in, So just just to
Speaker 1: put that out there right as um, you and I
Speaker 1: are doing this. I know I'm in the last minute.
Speaker 1: I don't know. We need to talk about this and
Speaker 1: this and this, and we're definitely not going to cover
Speaker 1: the entirety of everything that's happening, um, because I guess
Speaker 1: we could include that. We're going to talk a little bit,
Speaker 1: not necessarily about cancel culture, but holding people accountable and
Speaker 1: how social media is helping us to do that. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: um yeah. And for the last several days we've been
Speaker 1: seeing a lot of different young women coming out and
Speaker 1: talking about being deemed again social media by celebrities. Are
Speaker 1: being contacted through social media by different celebrities, specifically comedian
Speaker 1: Chris Dahlia and actor ends All l Gorge. Uh. The
Speaker 1: conversation has shown a disturbing pattern of men using their
Speaker 1: fame as a way to meet up with young fans
Speaker 1: and eliciting sex or at least sex s e x
Speaker 1: T S. I can't say the tea very well, um
Speaker 1: for both men's abuse of power has been a point
Speaker 1: of conversation on the bigger again disturbing picture of grooming
Speaker 1: young women. And when I say young women, they ranged
Speaker 1: from fourteen to eighteen. Uh. And honestly, this could be
Speaker 1: a whole other conversation of what do we consider an
Speaker 1: adult and who do we hold accountable for what during
Speaker 1: one age. But according to her Twitter post, Simone Rossi
Speaker 1: alleged at the age of sixteen, Chris, who by the way,
Speaker 1: has portrayed a pedophile and sex predator in two different
Speaker 1: TV series. Just with that out there, um exchanged emails,
Speaker 1: eventually leading up for Dahlia to request a meet up,
Speaker 1: which apparently did not occur for her. But since that post,
Speaker 1: several women have come forward stating that Smilar interactions with him,
Speaker 1: including requests for nude photos from underage girls. He's been
Speaker 1: terminated from the majority of his gigs and even denounced
Speaker 1: by female comedian Whitney Cummings, who also has a podcast
Speaker 1: UM and She's often had him on her show as
Speaker 1: a regular um and by the way, this has led
Speaker 1: to many criticizing her because they're saying she was too
Speaker 1: quick to judge and not willing to listen to both
Speaker 1: sides of the story. She tweeted at one point essentially
Speaker 1: saying thanks to all the male comedians who called last
Speaker 1: night or texted in support, and that was in sarcasm,
Speaker 1: I believe um. So. Another young woman alleged that Angel
Speaker 1: l Gored deemned her when she was seventeen, actually when
Speaker 1: she was sixteen UM and he was twenty at the time.
Speaker 1: According to the allegations, he not only solicited nudes from her,
Speaker 1: but also eventually met up with her in person. And
Speaker 1: had a sexual encounter the day she turned seventeen, uh,
Speaker 1: which according to her was her first sexual encounter, UM
Speaker 1: and sexual experience, and after denying the specifics of the encounter,
Speaker 1: l Gored claimed he didn't know how the young girl felt,
Speaker 1: so he wasn't going to put into her words how
Speaker 1: she felt, but it was a relationship and that the
Speaker 1: breakup was upsetting and that he should have not ignored her.
Speaker 1: Apparently when they broke up, he just ghosted her. From
Speaker 1: what I gather, that's what he's saying, and now is
Speaker 1: seeing the results of that, so essentially gas lighting, saying
Speaker 1: that she's got hurt feelings and accused him of something
Speaker 1: unsanely I guess um And by the way, Dahlia also
Speaker 1: denied the incident, stating the conversations were all out of
Speaker 1: context and denied any wrongdoing. Surprise, surprise yeah. In both
Speaker 1: of these situations, both of the victims said that they
Speaker 1: did receive a lot of harassment, but also received many
Speaker 1: messages if not only support, but similar stories and incidents
Speaker 1: from people who had experienced these same kind of things,
Speaker 1: which has been a part of the Me too movement
Speaker 1: and online community that is able to share their experiences
Speaker 1: and just know that they aren't alone. But with the
Speaker 1: situation again shows the continued abuse of power and fame
Speaker 1: in order to solicit sex or sexual favors. And again
Speaker 1: again it is still hotly debated and the continued sexualization
Speaker 1: of young women seems to be a point of conflict
Speaker 1: as to whether it is the adult or the youth faults,
Speaker 1: which is where a lot of the problem lies. So
Speaker 1: it has continued to be a point of contention as
Speaker 1: to who is in control when it comes to the
Speaker 1: sexualization of young women between the r Kelly cases and
Speaker 1: debate of Drake continuing to text young women UM and
Speaker 1: the stories of different celebrities slipping into young fans d
Speaker 1: m s which we've seen and continue to see. So
Speaker 1: if we look at the YouTube start Shane Dawson UM.
Speaker 1: He was recently called out for not all only those
Speaker 1: sickening videos of talking to a fourteen year old about
Speaker 1: her body sex administruation, but also performing a sexual act
Speaker 1: to a cut out of a young actress Willows Smith,
Speaker 1: and he, like many others, released an apology video without
Speaker 1: having the conversation of the underlying issue of damage to
Speaker 1: young women that this type of action produces. We discussed
Speaker 1: UM last year, which was twenty nine Forever about grooming
Speaker 1: and what exactly grooming is, but just as a reminder,
Speaker 1: grooming is defined here as quote a method used by
Speaker 1: offenders that involves building trust with a child and the
Speaker 1: adults around a child in an effort to gain access
Speaker 1: to and time alone with him or her. Extreme cases,
Speaker 1: offenders may use threats and physical force to sexually assault
Speaker 1: or abuse a child. In the case of l. Gore,
Speaker 1: the victim specifies that he uses a manipulative tactic of
Speaker 1: stating if she told anyone, he would ruin his career
Speaker 1: and possibly his life. Tactics like this or gas lighting,
Speaker 1: have been used for years on the fearmongering and manipulation
Speaker 1: of power or in this case, their fame, and because
Speaker 1: of the gas lighting, we still see the constant victim
Speaker 1: blaming UM as well as the fact victims blame themselves,
Speaker 1: which causes them to remain silent and not seek justice
Speaker 1: or even worse treatment for these really harmful encounters. And
Speaker 1: I would add the mere grooming can be traumatic in
Speaker 1: itself even if an encounter or a violent sexual act
Speaker 1: doesn't happen, This causes a trauma beyond just your every
Speaker 1: day Hey, how are you so grooming in itself, we've
Speaker 1: already talked about is a classification of harm and as
Speaker 1: a type of trauma. Yeah, And I think that's a
Speaker 1: good point to make because I've seen so many kind
Speaker 1: of people say, well, just let's just say the way
Speaker 1: it is, that's just part of it, as if that's
Speaker 1: not harmful. I have seen so many people act as
Speaker 1: if that it's just the way things are. That's almost
Speaker 1: the boys will be boys mentality, and of course get
Speaker 1: over it essentially, right, And this whole fame culture with
Speaker 1: a and celebrity culture also teaches girls oftentimes and young
Speaker 1: boys that they should be honored that they have been chosen. Again,
Speaker 1: this is why I say this is such a manipulation
Speaker 1: and just they don't even need to call talk about
Speaker 1: harming someone, They don't even need to threaten someone, just
Speaker 1: in itself being like being told you are special. So
Speaker 1: therefore why would you complain? Right? Yeah, yeah, you're lucky
Speaker 1: I'm giving you this attention, right, Yeah, And we also
Speaker 1: wanted to look within the black community um during this time,
Speaker 1: as the Black Lives Movement has been proceeding and has
Speaker 1: gain ground there is also the much needed conversations of
Speaker 1: who is supporting black women and why it's so hard
Speaker 1: to have an open conversation when it comes to supporting
Speaker 1: and believing black women. As we have previously discussed, Me
Speaker 1: Too was started by Toronto Burke, a Black woman who
Speaker 1: sought out a community to bring accountability as well as
Speaker 1: healing for those who have been affected by sexual abuse
Speaker 1: and violence and trauma, which meaning in the community continue
Speaker 1: to ask why is it that when people say black
Speaker 1: lives matter, why that sometimes seems to exclude Black women's lives.
Speaker 1: One big conversation that has been happening is the rape
Speaker 1: and murder of nineteen year old activists Tones Allow. Not
Speaker 1: only has this brought about the attention of the needs
Speaker 1: of protecting young women, but also the issue of the
Speaker 1: predatory behavior and victimization towards homeless use, which she at
Speaker 1: that time had been saying that she was homeless um.
Speaker 1: She even tweeted during this time as she was being
Speaker 1: an activist in Tallahassee, Florida, speaking loudly and powerfully for
Speaker 1: the fact that she wanted to protect black men. She
Speaker 1: was a victim of rape and murder, and we saw
Speaker 1: it played out in her Twitter, she actually tweeted out
Speaker 1: that she had been and sexually accosted and be used
Speaker 1: even before all of this went down. So it's just
Speaker 1: kind of one of those heartbreaking moments of where is
Speaker 1: the protection for this young women? What have we done well?
Speaker 1: How have we you know, failed her? And I say
Speaker 1: we as a as a whole and the controversial multi
Speaker 1: layered conversation with me too within communities of color are
Speaker 1: really lengthy and really long, and we definitely want to
Speaker 1: and need to address it as a whole episode or
Speaker 1: maybe even the series, because we see all of these
Speaker 1: things unfolding, like this tragedy and again the loss of
Speaker 1: many trans lives and specifically trans black women as recently
Speaker 1: as a couple of days ago, and the fact of
Speaker 1: the matter is that it's kind of downplayed in comparison
Speaker 1: to now. Of course, it's an intersectional conversation within feminism
Speaker 1: but also within black communities too, and how do we
Speaker 1: best address this and how do we look at what's
Speaker 1: happening and find justice for each and everyone of those victims.
Speaker 1: But if we look at examples like the CEO of
Speaker 1: Okay Player and Okay Africa and indeed music website Abiola Okay,
Speaker 1: who has been accused of harassment and continue manipulation and
Speaker 1: gas lighting within his company. We can see that the
Speaker 1: meat two continues to help in getting accountability, if not
Speaker 1: through the law, but through the organization and companies taking responsibility.
Speaker 1: The women who worked underneath him have come out and
Speaker 1: speaking truths and having the conversation out loud of how
Speaker 1: can we be given justice A and be wholesoone accountable
Speaker 1: who hold our lovelihoods in their hands? And I will
Speaker 1: say quest Love who was also part of that organization
Speaker 1: and a lot of the people from UM that company
Speaker 1: quickly rectified the situation and did terminate him from the company.
Speaker 1: But it kind of is that, Okay, this is hopeful,
Speaker 1: But it took all of this, It took all of
Speaker 1: these women having to out themselves and put themselves in
Speaker 1: the line of harassment in order to get any type
Speaker 1: of justice, in any kind of accountability UM in the
Speaker 1: first place, which again does rederate why the hashtag me
Speaker 1: too is so important in this whole nature, even though
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily it is and it isn't the cancel culture,
Speaker 1: Why that can be beneficial and why that might be
Speaker 1: the only form of justice that we see today. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna come back to that at the end
Speaker 1: because it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately.
Speaker 1: But something else I've been thinking about a lot lately
Speaker 1: and so a lot of people, it seems, is the
Speaker 1: me too movement within video gaming. And we will get
Speaker 1: into that, but first we're going to take a quick
Speaker 1: break for a Worktimore sponsor and we're back, Thank you, sponsor.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about me too in the gaming industry.
Speaker 1: In our recent episode on women and online gaming during COVID,
Speaker 1: we touched on the online harassment a lot of female
Speaker 1: gamers and gamers of other marginalized groups face, and how
Speaker 1: another piece of that whole thing lies in the often
Speaker 1: toxic environment on the development side. And it's not like
Speaker 1: this is a secret. Reports on rampant sexism at Riot Games,
Speaker 1: allegations made about a one time top developer at Take two,
Speaker 1: Interactive Softwares incorporated rock Star Games. Those cos big stars
Speaker 1: when the news broke, But the industry hasn't really faced
Speaker 1: the same large scale me too scrutiny that Hollywood did,
Speaker 1: but that could be changing. As of June, dozens of
Speaker 1: women have made allegations of sexual misconduct against several prominent
Speaker 1: men in the gaming industry, including streamers. These allegations largely
Speaker 1: were made over social media yes a lot like um
Speaker 1: me Too. Allegations usually are and as of recording, streamer
Speaker 1: Jessica Ritchie's list compiling all of the accusations she can find,
Speaker 1: has two hundred and fourteen injuries. Renowned video game writer
Speaker 1: Chris Avalon received four allegations and in response, one developer
Speaker 1: into their relationship with him, and he left another project
Speaker 1: that was in the middle of production. The incidents related
Speaker 1: by the women are similar. Some took place at conventions
Speaker 1: or events, and one woman attempting to get into the
Speaker 1: gaming industry, received sexually explicit messages from Avalon. Gaming companies
Speaker 1: like Ubosoft Entertainment and Insomniac Games are often reportedly investigating
Speaker 1: claims of sexual misconduct. Reporters in the game industry are
Speaker 1: sharing stories of publications refusing to publish stories exposing valid
Speaker 1: accusations out of fear of the pending lawsuit, or maybe
Speaker 1: not having the money that they know they'll need for
Speaker 1: the pending lawsuit. Twitch is facing its own reckoning. Amazon
Speaker 1: dot COM's Twitch is the largest video game streaming platform,
Speaker 1: and twich this whole thing is that it has democratized streaming.
Speaker 1: If you have the hardware, you can do it. A
Speaker 1: select few streamers a mass huge followings, and some of
Speaker 1: these streamers are able to monetize, so there's an incentive
Speaker 1: to break in to the industry this way. But as
Speaker 1: the positions of power are held by men who do
Speaker 1: the gatekeeping and there really isn't an HR to report to,
Speaker 1: many women and other marginalized folks allege that they regularly
Speaker 1: ignore toxic behavior on the platform and allow it to continue,
Speaker 1: which are huge obstacles for finding success on this platform
Speaker 1: or even just enjoying it without being harassed enough so
Speaker 1: that some streamers were calling for a blackout Wednesday a
Speaker 1: few weeks ago. As we record this hashtag Twitch blackout.
Speaker 1: Because of the blackout, Twitch permanently removed some users with
Speaker 1: allegations leveled against them. I think I just read that
Speaker 1: Twitch band donald Trump. Twitch did band? Twitch did band Trump?
Speaker 1: I I'm curious as to if Donald Trump was off.
Speaker 1: I was kind of surprised too. I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't understand what was the on Twitch or were people
Speaker 1: who are fans or mega guys that had their own
Speaker 1: platform dedicated to him. Is that what it was? I
Speaker 1: have no idea. I'm kind of curious. It was just
Speaker 1: sort of like CBR taking Donald Trumps not allowed. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's kind of an odd do, but okay, cool, cool, cool.
Speaker 1: I guess. One prominent case is a maid Dara Yani's,
Speaker 1: the chief executive officer of the Online Performers Group, a
Speaker 1: talent agency that represents many streamers, resigned after a woman
Speaker 1: accused him of unwanted sexual behavior, as in asking hard
Speaker 1: to be in the threesome with his wife. Interesting networking
Speaker 1: is hugely important to succeed in this industry, and many
Speaker 1: others detailed streamers with popular channels and or sponsorship deals
Speaker 1: specifically targeting aspiring streamers with sexually predatory behavior and or
Speaker 1: groomy young streams black and One such person was Sam Ernie,
Speaker 1: a popular streamer who left the platform after multiple allegations,
Speaker 1: posting in part quote, regardless of when any of what
Speaker 1: you see is said to have happened, I want you
Speaker 1: to believe the accusers. What is obvious is that this
Speaker 1: behavior has gone on throughout my career and I directly
Speaker 1: benefited sexually from it. While the people on the receiving
Speaker 1: and were negatively impacted. Uh. And I have to say,
Speaker 1: this is an interesting thing I've noticed through a lot
Speaker 1: of the stories we talked about earlier and a lot
Speaker 1: of these twitch stories, is several of the people who
Speaker 1: are accused or like, I don't deny this behavior right
Speaker 1: or the way you felt about it, but they still
Speaker 1: get a lawyer and like, don't I guess admit that
Speaker 1: they did something that could get them in more trouble.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just interesting. It's sort of like
Speaker 1: a halfway, like, yes, I acknowledge that I probably hurt
Speaker 1: your feelings and if you read it in a way
Speaker 1: that I didn't read it. But is that kind of
Speaker 1: that whole conversation we've had previously is a manipulative but
Speaker 1: be they don't want to see themselves in bad light,
Speaker 1: and so they talked themselves into this conversation. And yes,
Speaker 1: there is a lot to be said about perceptions and
Speaker 1: how one may have perceived the situation. But however, when
Speaker 1: you really you have the moment to take a chance
Speaker 1: to listen to the different size, you have to have
Speaker 1: put in account the power play. Again, that way we've
Speaker 1: talked about and why that dynamic is so dangerous in
Speaker 1: many ways. Right. Yeah, So as part of all this,
Speaker 1: all these allegations that have come out, Twitch has promised
Speaker 1: to take further actions to combat hate and sexism on
Speaker 1: their platform, though they've been pretty vague about specifics. One
Speaker 1: thing they have said is they do not intend to
Speaker 1: vet streamers at this time. Employees on the inside say
Speaker 1: that fire to this public outcry, allegations were brought up
Speaker 1: and dismissed at internal all hands meetings. The world of
Speaker 1: es force is undergoing its own wave of me to allegations,
Speaker 1: and some of this is directly related to these Twitch accusations,
Speaker 1: But that is another conversation that is happening as we speak,
Speaker 1: as we record, And so many women have reacted to this.
Speaker 1: Who's not in shock but with yes, uh, my feelings
Speaker 1: are validated. I knew this was true. So many women
Speaker 1: have stories about how they've cut that drinking or stopped
Speaker 1: completely at events, at gaming events, specifically because they've been
Speaker 1: warned what could happen? Are it has happened to them before.
Speaker 1: So many women have plans of texting a friend after
Speaker 1: a set period of leaving being an event after a
Speaker 1: set period of time, and so many women watch out
Speaker 1: for the newman, youngest women at these events, and it's
Speaker 1: just sometimes it blows my mind how much we do.
Speaker 1: That just shows how unsafe we are and how not
Speaker 1: valued we are. We just doing It's just sort of
Speaker 1: like second nature, I think for you and I were like, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, this is what you would do. This is
Speaker 1: exactly what you do. This is how you keep yourself safe.
Speaker 1: And this is what is a rate like even if
Speaker 1: it's a single day, if it's a date, your first day,
Speaker 1: we have a whole plan. Yeah, yeah, and you'd share
Speaker 1: it with friends, and it's just understood I could get murdered, rape,
Speaker 1: and that's the life the world we live. I mean,
Speaker 1: even just taking lifts, I'm like, this is the picture
Speaker 1: of my driver, just in case I disappear, and this
Speaker 1: is what I'm supposed to know. It is a common
Speaker 1: thing for women in general, so to see this, especially
Speaker 1: when it's an industry that's dominated by men. And I
Speaker 1: will say, when I was in the law enforcement side,
Speaker 1: and even though I'm not law enforcement, we had a
Speaker 1: small portion of our my work that had to be
Speaker 1: under that as well. Whether it's we talked about gang activity,
Speaker 1: or whatever. I was very, very hyper aware of the
Speaker 1: fact that it was a very male dominated field, and
Speaker 1: therefore I had to be even more so cautious. And
Speaker 1: you talked about that just in gaming and trying to
Speaker 1: be overly cautious to hide your gender. Mm hmm, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's sort of I think I was like eleven
Speaker 1: when I learned that lesson um, which is wild and
Speaker 1: very sad. Uh. And for a lot of reasons, all
Speaker 1: of this that's happening right now is a big deal
Speaker 1: for the gaming industry. Half of gamers or women. I
Speaker 1: know you've said it before, I'll say it again because
Speaker 1: people still seem shocked by that half of all gamers
Speaker 1: or women that that all dude thing, that that perception
Speaker 1: people have is left over from companies specifically targeting their
Speaker 1: advertising two young boys with money and a lot of
Speaker 1: popular games are hyper masculinized, leading to perception that is
Speaker 1: still a hyper masculinized space that allows for rampant microaggressions
Speaker 1: that are just dismissed. Again, that's the way it is.
Speaker 1: Suck it up. If you to be in this gaming world,
Speaker 1: we're kind enough to let you in, and then you're
Speaker 1: going to have to deal with it. Um. And even
Speaker 1: when it comes to things like in Cells, were just
Speaker 1: as women expected to tolerate that. Um. But it's again
Speaker 1: like blows my mind up, people like, yeah, I just
Speaker 1: deal with it. That's such a big deterrent that turns
Speaker 1: away so many people. I mean, we definitely had that
Speaker 1: episode of in Cells, and I had people worried about it,
Speaker 1: telling me not to do it. I WoT that we
Speaker 1: were going to be docs and all these things, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't because I'm not in that
Speaker 1: world necessarily. I know it exists, but because I've never
Speaker 1: been part of the gaming world, I've not seen it
Speaker 1: into that level and how territorial it really is. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's yeah, that was one of the things I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: I definitely don't want to be a part of it now.
Speaker 1: And that's the sad thing that's it is. So gaming
Speaker 1: obviously is a big business, like one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: billion a year big and obviously you would think we
Speaker 1: should be striving for safe, welcoming environments. Um. And this
Speaker 1: is a part of a larger conversation about creating those
Speaker 1: spaces everywhere, but the world of gaming has been particularly resistant.
Speaker 1: It's also yet another case of the responsibility for change
Speaker 1: being placed on women and other marginalized community. Sharing their
Speaker 1: painful stories with the threat of retribution and harassment to
Speaker 1: enact change and quarantine has sparked several renewed ways of
Speaker 1: social activism. And I will say part of this is
Speaker 1: because of the Black Lives Movement. It has pushed forward
Speaker 1: with seeking justice and kind of how we talked about
Speaker 1: with women who organized that if had not been for
Speaker 1: black activists, this would not be at the forefront either. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I just saw an article before we came in
Speaker 1: about me too and professional wrestling with the hashtag speaking
Speaker 1: out and all that has come out of that. Um
Speaker 1: so we could do me too on pretty much every industry, sport, hobby. Right.
Speaker 1: There's no shortage of stuff to talk about here. And
Speaker 1: something that's been on my mind lately is I had
Speaker 1: sort of a hopeless day a couple of weeks ago
Speaker 1: and I just thought, well, has me to accomplished anything
Speaker 1: like what as it accomplished? And I tried to Google
Speaker 1: search and there wasn't that much out there that was
Speaker 1: sort of an overview. There were more like me too.
Speaker 1: In seventeen what happened or me too in and so
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about I feel like the conversation, Like
Speaker 1: you said, Samantha, some companies are taking steps um allowing
Speaker 1: other women to speak out if they want to, UM,
Speaker 1: giving us a better scope of the numbers. I've definitely
Speaker 1: had a lot of male friends. I sort of have
Speaker 1: a reckoning realization of oh, okay, I didn't realize it
Speaker 1: was this common, right. I think it definitely has opened
Speaker 1: up to having the Okay, this is what you see,
Speaker 1: but this is what we see the female male perspective,
Speaker 1: and then just talking about why the conversations and our
Speaker 1: thought processes are different, because that danger is safe mentality
Speaker 1: that we have to have at all times. And and
Speaker 1: and as we know, things have been happening, whether we
Speaker 1: don't necessarily see the overarching this can be a historical context.
Speaker 1: We're gonna look back in twenty years and this is
Speaker 1: what happened. But you know, more news and more allegations
Speaker 1: are coming forward at this time, and it looks like
Speaker 1: Ron Jeremy, who is in the porn industry, has been
Speaker 1: charged officially with twenty five different Council sexual mixic conduct charges.
Speaker 1: And then Danny Masterson, who was a part of the
Speaker 1: hashtag me to call out UM has actually been charged
Speaker 1: with three counts of rape. Of course, both pleaded uh
Speaker 1: not guilty. We'll see what happens, UM. And we know
Speaker 1: that Harvey Weinstein is finally answering for some of his stuff,
Speaker 1: not all of it, but some is better than none,
Speaker 1: I guess. Unfortunately, is how we have to say it.
Speaker 1: And though it has been around in politics, it doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to be affecting those people as much. I want
Speaker 1: to hold it like that, but it left the very
Speaker 1: least we are talking about it. Yeah, I agree, I agree.
Speaker 1: These are really important conversations to have and I did
Speaker 1: want to include in here. There has been this whole
Speaker 1: false accusations trend which I probably don't have to describe
Speaker 1: to anybody, but it is what it sounds like where
Speaker 1: people are saying all because there is this wave of accusations.
Speaker 1: It's a trend, right, and people are just sort of
Speaker 1: like buying in and lying on the trend. And the
Speaker 1: the amount of detective works some Internet's lose claimed to
Speaker 1: put in um to proving that these are mostly women
Speaker 1: or young girls just trying to get a moment of fame. UM.
Speaker 1: And even before we came in here, I was watching
Speaker 1: a video about I was looking for videos of Chris
Speaker 1: Avalon and the third result was like an hour long
Speaker 1: video about how terrible the state of things are that
Speaker 1: he is getting accused and had to leave this work.
Speaker 1: And so that's still a conversation to be had as well, right,
Speaker 1: And I know with the fact that when we were
Speaker 1: talking about the two celebrities comedian and the actor, UM,
Speaker 1: someone went out of their way to make similar false
Speaker 1: accusations two stars that were beloved I think Riverdale stars,
Speaker 1: just to prove a point and say, see how easy
Speaker 1: it was for me to make the story up. UM
Speaker 1: trying to discredit other witnesses. But if and as I
Speaker 1: was trying to research it myself, when I went to
Speaker 1: go and look at the tweets that were telling their stories,
Speaker 1: they've been deleted. These women have left the platform because
Speaker 1: they have been so continually harassed. UM. I am baffled
Speaker 1: by the amount of people who say they are just
Speaker 1: trying to seek attention because they don't understand what type
Speaker 1: of attention is happening. And it's complete. Bullett put it
Speaker 1: out there that people think this is a way of
Speaker 1: someone getting famous, because more often than not. Their names
Speaker 1: get forgotten, but their incidents are like still in conversation,
Speaker 1: and that's problematic in itself. Yes, yes, so that is
Speaker 1: another episode. We could come back to another conversation to
Speaker 1: be had um. In the meantime, we did have some
Speaker 1: listener mail we wanted to read, but first we have
Speaker 1: one more quick break for a word from our sponsor,
Speaker 1: and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So we did want
Speaker 1: to include some listener mail because we have heard from
Speaker 1: listeners about this very thing that we're talking about. When
Speaker 1: it comes to the gaming industry, Laura wrote, I started
Speaker 1: working in the game industry in I know a long
Speaker 1: time ago, and I am going to hope that is
Speaker 1: why I was treated so poorly, but I seriously doubt
Speaker 1: much has changed during my time in the industry. I
Speaker 1: was ignored, dismissed, and belittle to the point that I
Speaker 1: eventually completely ceased to make suggestions and just did my
Speaker 1: job without ever again trying to enhance the state of
Speaker 1: game development at my company. To be fair, I was young,
Speaker 1: as I had started working there at age six, but
Speaker 1: a lot of my coworkers were also young, albeit all men,
Speaker 1: and I do not think I was treated even remotely
Speaker 1: similarly to any of them. It did not help that
Speaker 1: I was, for a long time the only woman in
Speaker 1: my division, and I was always the only one in
Speaker 1: my department. My boss fell quote in love with me
Speaker 1: and proceeded to tell me about it every night. For
Speaker 1: a while, he had me working a semi second shift
Speaker 1: of noon to eight p m. In order to train
Speaker 1: under his guidance in the evenings five to eight p m. Later,
Speaker 1: he moved me to a ten am the start time,
Speaker 1: but still made it clear that he expected me to
Speaker 1: stay late each night. It was during these evening times
Speaker 1: that he would go on and on about how he
Speaker 1: never had sex with his wife anymore did I mention
Speaker 1: he was married with two daughters, and other inappropriate things.
Speaker 1: He would tell me that he loved me. I tried
Speaker 1: to laugh it off. I told him to watch Oprah,
Speaker 1: since she daggled topics such as spouses who no longer
Speaker 1: had sex on her show. Basically, I was scared and
Speaker 1: nervous and told him anything I could to keep him
Speaker 1: at bay for a while. I dated another manager at
Speaker 1: the company who was my age and single. I didn't
Speaker 1: really like him, but he liked me, so I dated
Speaker 1: him to keep my manager at Bay. It worked, but
Speaker 1: the relationship was awful. Eventually, I broke up with the
Speaker 1: guy because we thought constantly and he kept trying to
Speaker 1: get me to marry him. After nine years, I went
Speaker 1: to HR. I didn't make a reporter, even tell them
Speaker 1: my name. I simply asked what the process was for
Speaker 1: pursuing sexual harassment at the company. They kept trying to
Speaker 1: get me to make a report, but I refused. Then
Speaker 1: they laid me off. So yeah, that is the game industry.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of other companies wouldn't even hire
Speaker 1: young women because they weren't a good quote culture fit.
Speaker 1: In other words, guys couldn't be overtly gross around them.
Speaker 1: I thought that being super geeky would be enough to
Speaker 1: earn me some respect in that industry. It was not.
Speaker 1: I'd always hoped that the computers would be the great equalizer,
Speaker 1: but sadly tech is as toxic, if not more so,
Speaker 1: than other industries. I hope someday the industry will change
Speaker 1: and we will see that change reflected in our entertainment software.
Speaker 1: Until then, I would recommend a regular tech company job
Speaker 1: over the game industry any day. Oh damn. She was
Speaker 1: an o G two. Yeah, Yeah, that's awful. So Louise wrote,
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of the show. I've been listening
Speaker 1: for a few years now and i just listened to
Speaker 1: your online gaming episode and thought i'd reach out. I'm
Speaker 1: a woman working in the UK game industry as a producer.
Speaker 1: I'm currently working at Rare on ce of Thieves. Part
Speaker 1: of what attracted me to this job is where's commitment
Speaker 1: to diversity and inclusion. Was a player of CEF the
Speaker 1: before I joined the team, and it's one of the
Speaker 1: few online games in which I haven't experienced harassment. I
Speaker 1: do have to be a bit vague here because the
Speaker 1: industry is small, but at previous companies of ex variance,
Speaker 1: micro aggression and pushback when I've tried to explain why
Speaker 1: things are problematic, I think this lack of female and
Speaker 1: black and Indigenous people of color l g pt Q
Speaker 1: plus perspective of being accepted and taking on board definitely
Speaker 1: informs why games are made in a way that marginalizes
Speaker 1: these groups and supports straight white men as a default audience,
Speaker 1: fueling gatekeeping. I do think the industry is getting a
Speaker 1: lot better, though there's much more push for the diversity
Speaker 1: inclusion because audiences are tired of the outdated attitudes nice
Speaker 1: and in terms of being harassed in games, one of
Speaker 1: my friends has an amazing technique for dealing with trolls.
Speaker 1: He asked them if they're okay and if they want
Speaker 1: to talk about anything. It totally calms them down, and
Speaker 1: normally there's something upsetting them, which is true, and their
Speaker 1: default reaction is to lash out. Now, obviously it should
Speaker 1: never be the duty of victims of harassment to comfort
Speaker 1: the harassers. But I think there's a much bigger conversation
Speaker 1: to have about why there's so many angry men out
Speaker 1: there who don't have adequate emotional support or healthy outlets
Speaker 1: for their anger. I don't think this is something video
Speaker 1: game companies alone can solve either, but I think we
Speaker 1: can just start looking at it as a systemic problem
Speaker 1: rather than looking at singular incidents and blaming the individual
Speaker 1: harassers were being bad. Now, I'm not condoning their actions
Speaker 1: in any way, and individuals are responsible, but I don't
Speaker 1: think this happens in a vacuum. Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: I think it just points to so many other systemic
Speaker 1: problems we have we have to tackle um and that
Speaker 1: responds to the troll. That reminds me Ben Bowlen, we
Speaker 1: used to have a company policy that, Thank god it
Speaker 1: is not around anymore, but you had to respond every
Speaker 1: YouTube comment. Oh my god, it was awful. It's just
Speaker 1: as bad as you can imagine and worse. Um And
Speaker 1: Ben Bowling, who does He's on a lot of our
Speaker 1: other podcasts on our network. Um. He When he would
Speaker 1: respond to a trolley, you would say, I hope you
Speaker 1: have a better day, which I appreciate it. I thought
Speaker 1: that was solid. I always like to do it like
Speaker 1: I had to do it for a while, and I
Speaker 1: would just give the like sweetest as though I had
Speaker 1: misinterpreted everything. They said, like, oh wow, look at that typo.
Speaker 1: Let me correct that for you. Usually they didn't respond
Speaker 1: once they realize, oh, a real person is actually here
Speaker 1: in reading these. Yeah, but we did want to end
Speaker 1: with a listener mail to show that it's not all bad.
Speaker 1: Hannah wrote, thanks for this week's episode on women and
Speaker 1: online gaming during COVID nineteen, I, like so many others,
Speaker 1: have spent lots of time with animal crossing during quarantine.
Speaker 1: Since Annie likes island facts, my island is named Googles
Speaker 1: the same town name I've been using since Animal Crossing
Speaker 1: was released on GameCube, and I have all female residents
Speaker 1: on my island except for two male cats, because cats
Speaker 1: are welcome in my feminist utopia. Also my dip for
Speaker 1: avoiding animal Crossing anxiety, don't look on social media other
Speaker 1: people's islands. I know that if I went out and
Speaker 1: look at all the awesome islands people have created, that
Speaker 1: I would feel like mine is completely inferior. But I
Speaker 1: love my little island and its chill, underdeveloped vibes. You
Speaker 1: definitely should play, just don't compare yourself to what others
Speaker 1: are doing or if you're doing it right. I guess
Speaker 1: that's pretty good life advice in general. Another way video
Speaker 1: games have helped me during the pandemic is that I
Speaker 1: started streaming my gameplay on Twitch, not Animal Crossing. Though
Speaker 1: Google's is only for me, It's been a great opportunity
Speaker 1: for me to showcase the offbeat types of simulation and
Speaker 1: mystery games that I enjoy while staying in touch with
Speaker 1: some friends and family who come to join me in
Speaker 1: the chat. I've also found that streaming is a great
Speaker 1: way for me to combat my imposter syndrome, since I'm
Speaker 1: just talking to a microphone by myself. I feel like
Speaker 1: I've been able to be more my real self rather
Speaker 1: than the buttoned up, anxious version of me that's always
Speaker 1: seeking to please others. I know it sounds completely counterintuitive,
Speaker 1: but streaming has been therapeutic for me, and it helped
Speaker 1: me feel less shy. My friends and family are getting
Speaker 1: to experience a more authentic, weird version of me than
Speaker 1: what I normally present, and hopefully I'll be more comfortable
Speaker 1: being my real self when we're all back to seeing
Speaker 1: each other face to face. I do worry that eventually
Speaker 1: I'll get trolls in my channel or viewers who will
Speaker 1: want to man plaining things to me, but it hasn't
Speaker 1: happened in the two months i've been streaming, yet I
Speaker 1: feel like I'll be confident enough to deal with it
Speaker 1: when if it does happen, since I've really found my
Speaker 1: voice video games. Video games. Yeah, but see, that's the thing.
Speaker 1: That's a beautiful thing that we should be trying striving
Speaker 1: to make for everyone. I love it. I love it,
Speaker 1: and your Animal Crossing Island sounds amazing, Google, So that's
Speaker 1: a good name. It's excellent, and please keep those uh
Speaker 1: messages coming in, keep sending us what's going on on
Speaker 1: your island. We love it, We love it. You can
Speaker 1: email us at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media
Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Instagram at stuff
Speaker 1: I Never Told You or on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks,
Speaker 1: it's always sort of superproducer Andrew Howard, thank you, and
Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told You,
Speaker 1: his production of iHeart Radio. For more podcast from my
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, It's the I Hear Radio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.