Speaker 1: Hey, fucker's what's up? Christina Hutchinson and Karen Fisher here
Speaker 1: from Guys We Fucked, the anti slot shaming podcast. You're
Speaker 1: about to hear a clip from our interview with human
Speaker 1: connection specialists Mark Groves. I'm so excited for this interview,
Speaker 1: and if you want to hear more, head on over
Speaker 1: to Luminary Podcasts dot com, where you can listen to
Speaker 1: Guys We Fucked and a bunch of other podcasts that
Speaker 1: they have only on Luminary for as little as to
Speaker 1: a month. Yeah, you get it, come on by. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just the advice. I would get that it was like
Speaker 1: protecting themselves from their own story coming to an end,
Speaker 1: or what they feared. And you know, I realized that
Speaker 1: that when you get advice from people who are close
Speaker 1: to you, you have to take into account that they're
Speaker 1: also unconsciously, for sure thinking about how it might affect them. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was like, uh so I started to I just
Speaker 1: woke up to the fagom life. People are getting divorced
Speaker 1: all around me. Old people who are still together, A
Speaker 1: lot of them don't even like each other. So this
Speaker 1: is the fairy tale, the Disney bullshit. So you know,
Speaker 1: I'd like to say I knew what love was, but
Speaker 1: I didn't I knew what codependency was. Yeah, Kurent and
Speaker 1: I were just talking to each other yesterday about how
Speaker 1: we're like our relationship is ever good? Like, do I
Speaker 1: know anybody in like a really beautiful solid Obviously ups
Speaker 1: and downs of course, so if it's all good all
Speaker 1: the time, something's sucked up. But um, because I have yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I have a theory. And like I think, I think
Speaker 1: I think that everyone thinks of me as like Debbie
Speaker 1: down or on the podcast. I think of myself as
Speaker 1: just like realistic. I certainly still believe in love and romance,
Speaker 1: and I think I'm like quite a hopeless romantic at heart.
Speaker 1: But like, I think there's something inherently dysfunctional about like
Speaker 1: a monogamous relationship at the core. I just don't feel
Speaker 1: like people are supposed to like be that close together
Speaker 1: all the time, that intertwined. It feels to me very
Speaker 1: very strange and relying on one person to fulfill you
Speaker 1: in all the areas just as too, that's too much
Speaker 1: to ask of somebody, well, yeah, like who could Especially
Speaker 1: if you seek and find happiness and wellness through your relationship,
Speaker 1: then that means that your well being is dependent on
Speaker 1: your partner, and that that pressure will be for sure,
Speaker 1: if it's not explicitly spoken, it will be unconsciously created.
Speaker 1: And what it'll do is it will make it so
Speaker 1: you um don't have hard conversations because hard conversations might
Speaker 1: end your relationship or might influence the emotional uh variability
Speaker 1: of the relationship. Of course, you know, like what you're
Speaker 1: talking about is codependency. I mean that's the the loss
Speaker 1: of a sense or never having had a sense of self.
Speaker 1: My sense of self is in my relationship status. We
Speaker 1: see that we're influenced so much in that regard because
Speaker 1: we celebrate anniversaries, of course, and in the longer you're together,
Speaker 1: the more successful your relationship is. When was the last
Speaker 1: time you ever heard someone celebrate the death or the
Speaker 1: ability to navigate conflict or you know, we never saw
Speaker 1: that at least I would say the time. You don't
Speaker 1: get a blon for that, but you should, because that
Speaker 1: that's that's relational, that's that's a skill set. To be
Speaker 1: able to navigate all conflicts leads to deeper intimacy. It
Speaker 1: either fractures the relationship or deepens it. And we don't
Speaker 1: Where do you learn that? Where do you learn that
Speaker 1: if you are not alive a young person today? But
Speaker 1: when I was growing up, that's that we didn't even
Speaker 1: talk about emotional wellness. I mean maybe like point five
Speaker 1: percent of school systems do. That's sad. That's sad because
Speaker 1: emotion will be the greatest your ability to navigate emotion
Speaker 1: and relationship will be the greatest determinant of the health
Speaker 1: of your life. And I was listening to some research
Speaker 1: yesterday about how if you have a community you can
Speaker 1: depend on it and it's a decade to your life. Wow.
Speaker 1: When you say community you can depend on, do you
Speaker 1: mean like a support system within your friends and family? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like that. I don't know how they specifically designed. I
Speaker 1: didn't read the study. I was listening to the research
Speaker 1: and talk about it, but yeah, yeah, something along those lines.
Speaker 1: And do you find because you are in the advice field,
Speaker 1: that's what you do for a living. That Uh, one
Speaker 1: of the things that I found because I'm really into
Speaker 1: being introspective and I'm really into figuring out. It was
Speaker 1: like a couple of years ago I figured out that
Speaker 1: I had childhood trauma, and that whole realization of like oh,
Speaker 1: that was fucked up, okay, and then you go and
Speaker 1: see how it affects your adult romantic relationships and you're like, oh, whoops,
Speaker 1: ship okay, and you really do yeah, And so I
Speaker 1: feel very whole. I feel very complete in my life,
Speaker 1: which is very exciting. But I noticed that sometimes when
Speaker 1: I was in the thick of it and in my depths,
Speaker 1: I was asking for advice because I wanted other people
Speaker 1: to tell me what to do. But does it ever,
Speaker 1: does it ever come a point where it hinders you
Speaker 1: to ask people for advice because sometimes like I'll have
Speaker 1: like a friend won't pick up. You know, when I
Speaker 1: was in the depths of this depression of figuring myself out,
Speaker 1: and I was forced to figure it out on my own,
Speaker 1: and I really eyes that was the better option for me,
Speaker 1: to just search for the answers with it myself. Is
Speaker 1: there a point that a person is asking for advice
Speaker 1: too much in other people? Yeah, I mean that's you.
Speaker 1: You nailed it with that and that and that that
Speaker 1: is part of the same symptom of everything, which is
Speaker 1: I've your I seek my wellness outside of me, I
Speaker 1: seek advice outside of me. I don't trust myself to
Speaker 1: make decisions in my relationships too. I go and read
Speaker 1: a book, I go and ask someone, which you know.
Speaker 1: I was talking to uh Sherry Salada, who used to
Speaker 1: be the executive producer of Oprah, and I'm like, okay, this,
Speaker 1: you've met everybody, like everybody who's ever given advice. What
Speaker 1: is the one thing that that like all of them
Speaker 1: share in terms of communication or or their purpose. And
Speaker 1: she said, you know, the one thing that's true is
Speaker 1: that you don't need them. And then she was like, wait,
Speaker 1: actually you need them to remind you that you don't.
Speaker 1: And that's that, you know, like your friend not picking
Speaker 1: up in you know, what may have been your darkest hour,
Speaker 1: or you know, when spiritual world they might call the
Speaker 1: dark Knight of the soul that like, the pain is
Speaker 1: so great we think we will fracture, and we do.
Speaker 1: But what is born from that is the realization that
Speaker 1: we know. And that's that act of building self trust.
Speaker 1: So it's like, what should I do? Should I stay
Speaker 1: or go? And I'm like, you need to get there.
Speaker 1: If I tell you what to do, then you're going
Speaker 1: to keep outsourcing your own wisdom and not see that
Speaker 1: you're fucking Yoda, you know, And Yeah, to me, that's
Speaker 1: why we call that kind of on the podcast. I
Speaker 1: think we've referenced it as like Wizard of Oz syndrome.
Speaker 1: A lot of times. It's, you know how in the
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz, Darthy goes on this journey she meets
Speaker 1: the tin man and a scarecrow in the lion. But
Speaker 1: then you get back and you realize that she had
Speaker 1: the only answer within her heart the whole time. And
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times when our listeners write
Speaker 1: us in UM, whether or not they know it, we
Speaker 1: find within the text that they've emailed us the answer
Speaker 1: lies within the question nine times out of ten. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm curious about um, being sexually attracted. You've talked about this,
Speaker 1: and I've and I've read up on this so much
Speaker 1: about being sexually attracted to a partner that will recreate
Speaker 1: your trauma for you. And once I was introduced to
Speaker 1: that concept, it was such such a huge mind fuck
Speaker 1: because it really really resonated with me. How other than like,
Speaker 1: I assume the answer to this question is probably just
Speaker 1: healing yourself, which um, which I personally have done a
Speaker 1: lot of work on. How do you change who you
Speaker 1: are sexually attracted to? Yeah? That's a being sexually attracted
Speaker 1: to people who don't like you as much as you
Speaker 1: like them. Like, that's that's one of the tales old
Speaker 1: of time as time with that stuff. But what how
Speaker 1: does that? How do you make that go away? Yeah?
Speaker 1: That is a mind funk because of course we've been
Speaker 1: taught like, but that's chemistry, and so that's usually the
Speaker 1: response we get, right is like, oh but if but
Speaker 1: that's my how can I help who I'm attracted to?
Speaker 1: And so it is one about being aware that you know,
Speaker 1: and they might use the term like eroticizing your wounds,
Speaker 1: that you make sexy the thing that hurts you. There's
Speaker 1: a couple of aspects of that, one that that you're
Speaker 1: seeking to recreate the pain, but really you could see
Speaker 1: that as an invitation to heal it. Right, so you're
Speaker 1: being attracted to these people and um uh. In psychology
Speaker 1: they call that like repetition compulsion that you repeat the
Speaker 1: same thing. But why would we repeat it that hurts us?
Speaker 1: It's because we haven't we we haven't garnered the gift yet,
Speaker 1: we haven't got the thing from it that allows us
Speaker 1: to come home, that allows us to be complete the mission.
Speaker 1: You know, in some ways, and you can see this hereditarily.
Speaker 1: You see the same relational patterns follow down a family tree,
Speaker 1: and and no one's completed the mission. And and that
Speaker 1: could be systemic. There's lots of things that influence that.
Speaker 1: You could be Catholic, it could be you know, we
Speaker 1: have the patriarchy. We got all the fucking things that
Speaker 1: will influence us. And so the first part is to
Speaker 1: recognize that you have a choice. And that's part of
Speaker 1: healing trauma too, is to recognize you have a choice
Speaker 1: and how these things influence us. And that's a really
Speaker 1: big one because most people don't think they have a
Speaker 1: choice in who they choose in relationship. And I think partially,
Speaker 1: you know, that's because we've taught people that their self
Speaker 1: worth lives in their relationship status. So most of us
Speaker 1: are dating from the perspective of like, oh you like me,
Speaker 1: I like you like we're waiting to be chosen. And
Speaker 1: you look at that, how sort of coupling with the
Speaker 1: Disney story that a woman should be suffering in a
Speaker 1: tower or on some train tracks and here comes this
Speaker 1: night and shining armor. We've socialized and just like indoctrinated
Speaker 1: people women especially that they need to be saved and
Speaker 1: then then need to be someone who saved. So that's
Speaker 1: we fix fix fixed, right, and don't listen. And part
Speaker 1: of that that changing your chemical or chemistry one acknowledging
Speaker 1: where it lives. Okay, that's a pattern of half to
Speaker 1: be abstinent to that because you recognize, well, I'm attracted
Speaker 1: to this person. I noticed alcohol is part of the
Speaker 1: recipe of that. Okay, I'm gonna I need to stop
Speaker 1: drinking because I need my whole self here. Okay, I
Speaker 1: need to stop interacting and engaging in the sexual chemistry
Speaker 1: because what occurs is that the sexual intimacy. So let's
Speaker 1: say I'm attracted to someone who's unavailable, I have sex
Speaker 1: with them. So the unavailability I'm not feeling chosen could
Speaker 1: be a friends with benefits situation. I'm not feeling chosen,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to minimize what I want because I
Speaker 1: have low accountability behavior. I keep a low bar because
Speaker 1: I don't believe I'm worthy of I want a relationship,
Speaker 1: so I I just want friends with benefits. So every
Speaker 1: every time I feel unchosen, I then have sex, so
Speaker 1: I experience erotic floods of endorphins. You know, all the
Speaker 1: things big flood with somebody who doesn't like you that
Speaker 1: much when you finally like, oh were that that's like
Speaker 1: and then we said this bar but the sex is
Speaker 1: so great, right, The drug is great, and like any drug,
Speaker 1: it pulls us away from a feeling. So if we're
Speaker 1: feeling lonely, not chosen, abandoned, rejected even because if you
Speaker 1: look at the beginning of that cascade, I rejected my
Speaker 1: own worth and I rejected my own standards. So the
Speaker 1: sex treats the pain. So the arousal treats the pain,
Speaker 1: so it becomes this cycle of you know, in in
Speaker 1: some ways, like uh, any type of drug, that's why
Speaker 1: it becomes addictive. So in any intimacy, like you were
Speaker 1: speaking earlier about the codependency, like monogamy in its sort
Speaker 1: of birth, doesn't seem like a healthy way of relating.
Speaker 1: That's because most of us um don't date from a
Speaker 1: place where we're in relationship but we also feel free.
Speaker 1: How do you hold on to who you are and
Speaker 1: be in love? Most of us just know how to
Speaker 1: give it all away or or run from it. We
Speaker 1: don't know how because you know, when you're single, you're like,
Speaker 1: I got my ship together and then you get together
Speaker 1: and you're like, I don't have anything together. I'm a
Speaker 1: loser with nothing. Yeah. I hope you guys enjoyed that
Speaker 1: clip of Guys We Fund, the anti slut shaming podcast
Speaker 1: with guest marks. If you want to hear the entire episode,
Speaker 1: you're gonna head over to Luminary Podcasts dot com and
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