Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Ye.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. My writer Die and I
Speaker 1: here have off off. Mike agreed. There is only there's
Speaker 1: one and only one way to introduce today's episode, and
Speaker 1: that's this Shakespeare Riots ryant. That's as far as we
Speaker 1: got with the song. Right brow chair up on the stage,
Speaker 1: the Shakespeare Riot Riot. This is not I don't know,
Speaker 1: I got nothing, what is it? Well, so this is
Speaker 1: let's see, um, it's over the bard. We wage no
Speaker 1: nothing not good, not good. Well, we'll look at the
Speaker 1: we'll look at the lyrics and spend some time or
Speaker 1: maybe you can help us out with this. We're looking
Speaker 1: for zoot Suit Riot written as Shakespeare Riot, and we'd
Speaker 1: love to hear your take on the lyrics, uh anywhere
Speaker 1: on the internet, Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook page Ridiculous Historians.
Speaker 1: Maybe we can come up with some of our own
Speaker 1: off air. How will I write this parody song? You
Speaker 1: may be asking yourself, Well, it's very simple. You'll learn
Speaker 1: all you need in today's episode. Well, and the good
Speaker 1: news is I've already set the bar remarkably low. With
Speaker 1: my ham fisted attempt at this, but you know I
Speaker 1: was really it was just right off the cuff. I
Speaker 1: didn't even think about this bend you threw that. You
Speaker 1: surprised me with this cherry pop and Daddy's ref So please,
Speaker 1: ridiculous historians, do us a solid and make us proud
Speaker 1: right right, this song and needs to exist. Weird Al
Speaker 1: hasn't done it. Who else is going to? I don't
Speaker 1: know if it could be you, but it's true. Today
Speaker 1: we're talking about no joke riot, like you know, practically
Speaker 1: burning things to the ground. I think there is an
Speaker 1: attempt at arson at some point in this story, and
Speaker 1: it's all around. It's like in that time of New
Speaker 1: York City history, kind of like Gangs of New York era,
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken with like the Bowery Boys and
Speaker 1: all of that stuff. Actually that might be later. Forget
Speaker 1: I said anything about Gangs of New York. But it
Speaker 1: is sort of still that frontier kind of like you know,
Speaker 1: mentality of like, you know, there's the very high salutin
Speaker 1: old money types, which were pretty much British transplants who
Speaker 1: still are quite rich, and then there's like the new
Speaker 1: middle class, and then there's like the lower class and
Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff. Those crowds come together in entertainment.
Speaker 1: That's where the haves and the have nots kind of
Speaker 1: meat Taylor as old as time, we see it throughout
Speaker 1: history and America was it so much no own as
Speaker 1: being like like a theater place. It was very much
Speaker 1: a British thing. And obviously Shakespeare is the most famous
Speaker 1: British you know, arguably now I think pretty much unquestionably
Speaker 1: there was famous British playwright of all time. And this
Speaker 1: was now starting to you know, show up in the States.
Speaker 1: But there still wasn't like a famous British equivalent to
Speaker 1: like the the great British actors, you know, And this
Speaker 1: story is kind of about that American equivalent and the uh,
Speaker 1: the the hufflepuff that's not the right word, the hubble
Speaker 1: brew ha ha. That those uh that those clashing factions
Speaker 1: uh created when you know, people were feeling like maybe
Speaker 1: this uh, this gentleman was too low brow to tread
Speaker 1: the boards right right, and this is uh, this is
Speaker 1: where of course we point out, uh, the notable absence
Speaker 1: of our super producer Casey Pegram, who is still so
Speaker 1: upset by the historical event that he uh, he wasn't
Speaker 1: able to make it to the recording. Today, we're with you, Casey, uh,
Speaker 1: and you'll be you're joining us in spirit. But we
Speaker 1: understand how how you're still still a little sore about
Speaker 1: about the issue his very sensibilities of all that is good.
Speaker 1: We're so shaken that he had to take a take
Speaker 1: a sick day today. Yeah, that's it. That's the ticket,
Speaker 1: that's the theater ticket. You're you're right, Noel, and I
Speaker 1: love the way that you have set out the stage
Speaker 1: for our story today. You see, one of the biggest
Speaker 1: incidents of public outrage and pandemonium in the entire history
Speaker 1: of the Big Apple was really a fight about theater. Uh.
Speaker 1: And we're going to learn how a tremendously difficult feud
Speaker 1: between two actors lead to widespread chaos. So let's introduce
Speaker 1: were two principal actors for this story who are also
Speaker 1: actors themselves. There's England's William McCready and from the US
Speaker 1: there's Edwin Forrest. Now, both of these guys were already
Speaker 1: big deals. They were professional actors. They were in their
Speaker 1: glory days. They had each toward the other's country in
Speaker 1: various productions, and they were known on both sides of
Speaker 1: the pond. But McCready sort of represented that old school
Speaker 1: idea of Shakespearean or British actors. Forrest was a young
Speaker 1: gun in every sense of the word. He was thirteen
Speaker 1: years younger than William and he also represented this sort
Speaker 1: of this sort of new school of actors who came
Speaker 1: from an American background. Yeah, that's right. It's like you
Speaker 1: think of, oh, what's that Saturday Night Live sketch? Whereas
Speaker 1: is it Mike Myers who does the whole acting that
Speaker 1: that thing John John Lovett's acting. That's right, And yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's definitely like that that tradition, a very large
Speaker 1: kind of you know, almost scenery chewing kind of attitude
Speaker 1: of that kind of Shakespearean acting where it's all about
Speaker 1: big performances because as we know, you know, stage acting
Speaker 1: requires big performances. Otherwise, those uh, gestures and glances and
Speaker 1: looks and and nuances that might be easier to to
Speaker 1: see on a screen with zoomed in camera, you can't
Speaker 1: do that on on on a on a stage when
Speaker 1: you're maybe you know, hundred feet away and the chief
Speaker 1: seats or or more even um so you really got
Speaker 1: to kind of like sell it um. And that is
Speaker 1: what McCready represented. The traditional style of Great Britain and
Speaker 1: classical British theater. Forest, who was much younger, Um was.
Speaker 1: He brought a different kind of bravado to the stage.
Speaker 1: It's possible that I'm overstating the bigness of British acting
Speaker 1: because it was possibly of to the more nuanced Um,
Speaker 1: but it had a little bit more of an effect
Speaker 1: quality to it, a little bit more of a daintiness
Speaker 1: and delicate nature. And this Forest guy was all, you know,
Speaker 1: piss and vinegar and bigness and machismo. And American audiences
Speaker 1: flipped for this guy, first of all because he was
Speaker 1: one of their own, you know, given those British conquerors
Speaker 1: what for uh you know, in in in the theater,
Speaker 1: theatrical sense um. But he had really started to develop
Speaker 1: kind of a distinct cultural identity for American theater that
Speaker 1: was different from that British school. And I would argue,
Speaker 1: first off, I have rarely been a professional actor in
Speaker 1: my life. I mainly did uh sketch comedy and a
Speaker 1: couple of few serious pieces. But I would argue that
Speaker 1: this difference exists in a form today very quickly. For instance,
Speaker 1: imagine some of the most famous American actors, people like
Speaker 1: al Pacino. That's always going to be seen as al
Speaker 1: Pacino on camera, right, and it's less chameleon like. There's
Speaker 1: something to be said, uh and and I'm not sure
Speaker 1: how to freeze it. There's something to be said to
Speaker 1: the idea that European actors are often lauded for their
Speaker 1: ability to become subsumed in a role, while many US
Speaker 1: actors are lauded for their ability to kind of always
Speaker 1: be themselves. Hey, it's me Robert de Niro, Bobby de Niro.
Speaker 1: I'm playing a French duke in this movie. But this
Speaker 1: is still how I do you know? Or Keanu reeves
Speaker 1: uh may science and the God's bless him. He seems
Speaker 1: like such a great guy. But man, if you rewatch
Speaker 1: Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula, which I thoroughly enjoy. Uh that accent,
Speaker 1: that accent is tough. I know what, the Boston sleeps exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But you know what, you never got cast in a
Speaker 1: role like that ever again. And I would argue that
Speaker 1: Kanu reeves as a secret weapon, a magic bullet when
Speaker 1: used properly. And I think I saw an article not
Speaker 1: to get too off topic, about how he is sort
Speaker 1: of one of the most underappreciated actors in American cinema,
Speaker 1: and that's largely because people just think he's a dummy
Speaker 1: and he doesn't really know what he's doing. But yet,
Speaker 1: why why is he so beloved? It's not just coincidence,
Speaker 1: It's not just because he's cute. There's something to Kiana Reeves.
Speaker 1: He brings a kindness and that sort of empathy to
Speaker 1: his roles. Uh, And I think that really translates, and
Speaker 1: that's why he's such a big deal. And I think
Speaker 1: that all all of the actors we have mentioned thus far,
Speaker 1: and many that we haven't mentioned thus far, are in
Speaker 1: their own way, profoundly talented, you know. I I think
Speaker 1: it's I think it's kind of lazy for people to
Speaker 1: just keep opprobrium on an actor. There's there's usually going
Speaker 1: to be a reason that they're in so many films, right,
Speaker 1: professionals assessed their abilities and found them more than adequate,
Speaker 1: So kudos to wall. It is tremendously difficult work to
Speaker 1: be a working actor, and you live and die by
Speaker 1: the fans, right, That's true for any entertainment. That's true
Speaker 1: for uh K pop and groups like BTS, that's true
Speaker 1: for sports teams and more. These actors each had their
Speaker 1: own fan clubs, and they were like soccer hool again
Speaker 1: level or football hool again level, opposed to each other.
Speaker 1: The wealthy upper class anglophiles in England and in the US,
Speaker 1: they were McCready people, the the uh the working class,
Speaker 1: the folks who were like, yeah, I like theater. What
Speaker 1: does that surprise you? Okay, like theater, I worked, you
Speaker 1: know what? The ducks and I go see Macbeth. What's
Speaker 1: wrong with that? This is America, baby, Those folks like Forest. Well,
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, then I mean this is also
Speaker 1: pre what we might consider some of the more base,
Speaker 1: lowbrow types forms of entertainment in the States, things like
Speaker 1: cabaret or things like vaudeville, you know. Like so at
Speaker 1: the time, the reason there was such a clash between
Speaker 1: these two classes was because this was really the only
Speaker 1: game in town. Was this kind of classical theater, you know, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, I'm sure there were some
Speaker 1: other things that were approaching what I'm talking about, but
Speaker 1: it certainly wasn't that golden era, yet where there were
Speaker 1: like a much more of a body type of crowd
Speaker 1: that maybe the highbrows wouldn't go to. They were occupying
Speaker 1: the same theaters, checking out the same uh, performances that
Speaker 1: were largely classical works. Not classical all the time, but
Speaker 1: things by Shakespeare, maybe even Greek theater or Rome, what
Speaker 1: have you. So there was definitely this interesting opportunity for
Speaker 1: culture clash to take place, and boy do we have
Speaker 1: a good one coming. But real quick, let's just a
Speaker 1: little further some up kind of they's individual actress style.
Speaker 1: William Charles McCready was known for that kind of more
Speaker 1: Faye effect kind of handkerchief wavings is how Smithsonian Magazine
Speaker 1: refers to it um in his port trail of Hamlet,
Speaker 1: and he was a beloved portrayer of Hamlet. That was
Speaker 1: one of his most famous roles. Uh. Forest, on the
Speaker 1: other hand, like we said, took it a little bit
Speaker 1: more of a blunt instrument approach. Yeah, And Forrest was
Speaker 1: more of the Shakespearean protagonist as action hero, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. This guy was here to kick ass
Speaker 1: and spit quatrains. And I have no idea if that's correct.
Speaker 1: But here's here's the thing. They also became symbols as
Speaker 1: we've sort of been foreshadowing of anti English and pro
Speaker 1: English sentiment. We have to remember this was like just
Speaker 1: maybe two generations after the Revolutionary War. That means it
Speaker 1: was still a hot topic. So even the word English
Speaker 1: was considered to kind of a sideways dig against the
Speaker 1: wealthy in the US and what we're seeing as their
Speaker 1: British sympathies. Shakespeare, oddly enough escaped this anti English sentiment.
Speaker 1: Americans loved Shakespeare, they loved the stories, they love the writing.
Speaker 1: They just wanted no part of what they saw as
Speaker 1: the foreign stage direction. They were like, yeah, forrest this guy,
Speaker 1: this bust heads and take names approach to British protagonists,
Speaker 1: and that's what we need, not this uptype formality. And
Speaker 1: while that might seem weird, we have to remember this
Speaker 1: was pre internet, this was pre telephone, pre television, so
Speaker 1: traveling performers were often seen as representatives of their own countries,
Speaker 1: whether they liked it or not. So when a lot
Speaker 1: of people would see McReady, they would think, Okay, this
Speaker 1: is what every single British person. It's like, how interesting
Speaker 1: is that? Ben sort of goes to what I was
Speaker 1: talking about earlier, that maybe it had to do it
Speaker 1: just a lack of options. But you know, now we
Speaker 1: think of Shakespeare is something that you learn in college,
Speaker 1: and you know, we might occasionally get like a bas
Speaker 1: learnman adaptation of one that's got like boobs and you know,
Speaker 1: violence and and and chopping heads and things like that.
Speaker 1: So there's definitely still a little bit of that populace
Speaker 1: sentiment around Shakespeare, but much less so. There's an article
Speaker 1: on the Santa Fe, New Mexicans website that kind of
Speaker 1: tells the story of this rivalry that categorizes it like this.
Speaker 1: Prospectors and trappers recited Shakespeare around campfires, reading from battered
Speaker 1: volumes carried in their packs or cobbling together heartfelt pastichious
Speaker 1: from memory. Um, really fascinating. This really was kind of
Speaker 1: the people's He was the people's bard, you know, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: voice of the people. And so let's let's dive into
Speaker 1: how McReady and Forest became such uh, such bitter pills
Speaker 1: toward one another. It all started years back. McReady had
Speaker 1: toward the United States, and Forest more or less emulated him.
Speaker 1: He performed the same roles that McReady was known for
Speaker 1: at different theaters across the country, and the public love
Speaker 1: this idea of dueling actors. There's almost like a w
Speaker 1: W E vibe here because there was this transatlantic rivalry.
Speaker 1: Supporting that one actor or another in a role became
Speaker 1: kind of a statement of one's sentiments regarding the transatlantic
Speaker 1: rivalry at large. And so when Forrest went to England,
Speaker 1: the crowds came out, there were butts in the seats,
Speaker 1: there were ground lanes in the ground lean area. And
Speaker 1: when he came back to England later in the mid
Speaker 1: eighteen forties for a second tour, you can read a
Speaker 1: great article about this on thought Co, the crowds were sparse.
Speaker 1: Did Forest blame his performance? Did he blame the source
Speaker 1: material or did he blame the production team? No, he
Speaker 1: blamed McReady. That's son of a fish. He said. I
Speaker 1: was sabotaged. Yeah I was. I was sabotaged. And so
Speaker 1: we physically showed up in a performance that McReady was
Speaker 1: involved in and started heckling him from the audience like
Speaker 1: this boom. You know it's funny. I read another article
Speaker 1: about this, or I think I watched and I know
Speaker 1: what it was. There's this guy I've been really enjoying
Speaker 1: on on YouTube. Goes by the history Guy and he
Speaker 1: does these kind of short little uh, you know, quick
Speaker 1: blasts through like interesting little history stories. And we've we
Speaker 1: referenced him a few times on the show. But he
Speaker 1: talks about how these guys kind of knew each other,
Speaker 1: they had at least crossed paths, and they were friendly
Speaker 1: to a point. Uh. And the first thing, yeah, and
Speaker 1: then things got nasty. But you gotta wonder, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like these hip hop beefs we see today, you
Speaker 1: gotta wonder if there's calculation behind them sometimes where it's
Speaker 1: sort of like, hey, no, no press is bad press.
Speaker 1: Maybe if we drum up some kind of leg rivalry,
Speaker 1: it'll it'll, you know, it'll up our returns on both ends.
Speaker 1: UM doesn't seem like that was the case here because
Speaker 1: there was actual loss of money happening, because it was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you're gonna you're gonna cause me to not have as
Speaker 1: many people come to the show. I'm gonna show up
Speaker 1: and hiss from from the box seats. Uh, And that
Speaker 1: really UM set things on a collision course for disaster.
Speaker 1: And we know this is the case, uh, because Okay,
Speaker 1: so the this is when the rivalry begins. So Forest
Speaker 1: shows up in Edinburgh when mc ready is performing Hamlet,
Speaker 1: as you guessed it Hamlet, and oddly enough, theater was
Speaker 1: much more interactive at this level there is maybe considered
Speaker 1: to be today because it wasn't uncommon for a spectator
Speaker 1: to heckle, and mc ready may have gone on and
Speaker 1: just take that and stride his bruised ego aside, but
Speaker 1: he recognized that it was Forest. And then Forrest went
Speaker 1: in and wrote a letter to the London Times where
Speaker 1: he defended his behavior. He said it was quote is
Speaker 1: salutary and wholesome corrective to the abuses of the stage.
Speaker 1: The truth is Mr McGready thought fit to introduce a
Speaker 1: fancy dance into his performance of Hamlet, which I thought,
Speaker 1: and still think a desecration of the scene, and at
Speaker 1: which I evinced that disapprobation. What is it? A fancy
Speaker 1: dance like a little uh, like a little jig like
Speaker 1: I got it? Who knows that that would be a first?
Speaker 1: And then McCready, uh, you know, in in in, in
Speaker 1: true dandy British fashion, made a very snippy entry in
Speaker 1: his diary where he commented on the affairs such. I
Speaker 1: do not think that's such an action as a parallel
Speaker 1: in all theatrical history, the low minded ruffian perfect. I
Speaker 1: think he's referring, he's referring to Forest. There is a
Speaker 1: low that is them's fighting words. Low minded Ruffian in
Speaker 1: those days might as well be you know, a serious
Speaker 1: Ethan and Jeff and kind of slur. And notice how
Speaker 1: that that plays into the British stereotypes of knuckle headed
Speaker 1: residents of the US. And it's weird because in Europe
Speaker 1: McReady is very well established. He has the infrastructure, he
Speaker 1: has the pr they're on his side, and his supporters
Speaker 1: worked assiduously to ensure that Forest is performances didn't get
Speaker 1: a lot of coverage in the press, so he wasn't
Speaker 1: getting the headlines and the ink that he wanted, and
Speaker 1: this sabotaged his uh, his obsession one that should be
Speaker 1: familiar to many actors in the audience today. Global fame
Speaker 1: and then Forest in return made it difficult for Ready
Speaker 1: to play in the States. There was a performance McReady
Speaker 1: had in Cincinnati, and the patrons, the audience members, the
Speaker 1: secret Forest fans intentionally went there to try and sabotage
Speaker 1: the production. They threw half a dead sheep onto the stage,
Speaker 1: and these guys kept like snipping each other back and
Speaker 1: forth in the press. So to your point, Noll, I
Speaker 1: don't know how sincere they. I think the two actors
Speaker 1: were sincere. But I am sure there were promoters and
Speaker 1: so on who were fanning the flames because they realized
Speaker 1: it was good publicity and it's back and forth in
Speaker 1: the press. These kind of little digs, uh, just went
Speaker 1: on and on and on and really began to just
Speaker 1: kind of deepen those resentments on both sides of the divide.
Speaker 1: Like we said, the anglophile has you know, in the
Speaker 1: MacCready camp and the more working class you know, um
Speaker 1: football hooligan types, not to oversimplify um and the forester camp.
Speaker 1: And it all was heading to a battleground situation, um
Speaker 1: where things would ultimately kind of boil over in a
Speaker 1: pretty remarkable fashion. We have our characters, we have our context.
Speaker 1: Now let's look at our figurative and literal stage. The
Speaker 1: theater at astor place is in a wealthy neighborhood Broadway
Speaker 1: should be familiar to everybody else. It is within shouting
Speaker 1: distance of the Bowery, which is working class. The Bowery
Speaker 1: Theaters where Forrest made his stage debut, and it's where
Speaker 1: neighborhood street gangs known as bhoys be Apostrophe h o
Speaker 1: y s went to while out they would throw peanuts,
Speaker 1: they would they would holler along with the works of Shakespeare,
Speaker 1: or they would climb on stage and try to mess
Speaker 1: with the actors. The Astor Place Theater was the polar
Speaker 1: opposite velvet seats. You gotta show up with white gloves,
Speaker 1: monocles not required, but encouraged totally. And uh, basically it
Speaker 1: was considered scandalous if someone showed up to the Astor
Speaker 1: Place Theater not in an expensive carriage. So of course
Speaker 1: that's where McReady goes. That's right. And you know I
Speaker 1: mentioned at the top of the show the idea of
Speaker 1: kind of that that new Ish working class um, the
Speaker 1: Bowery Boys and things like that. They were they were
Speaker 1: there was a gang, but they also were just kind
Speaker 1: of a group of you know, street tufts that kind
Speaker 1: of hung around the Bowery neighborhood. So you definitely had
Speaker 1: it wasn't very far from where the Astor Theater was,
Speaker 1: so there was you know, it was easy for them
Speaker 1: to kind of like get when that there that there
Speaker 1: was going to be this event and decide they were
Speaker 1: going to uh you know, not co opted exactly, but
Speaker 1: a bit of a party crashing situation. So, um, when
Speaker 1: McCready gets this kind of engagement at the Aster Place
Speaker 1: Theater in eighteen forty nine and the Springs will be
Speaker 1: his third tour of the United States, uh, it was
Speaker 1: essentially fighting words, um, you know, as far as the
Speaker 1: Bowery Boys and that kind of Echelona society were concerned.
Speaker 1: So on May seventh, eighteen forty nine, McCready was about
Speaker 1: to hit the stage as Macbeth in the in the
Speaker 1: Scottish play, that's what they call it. And uh, this
Speaker 1: that's when these working class New York folks who had
Speaker 1: bought tickets started filing into the Astor Opera House, which
Speaker 1: is which is the official name of the place. And
Speaker 1: it was actually, if I'm not mistaken, they had previously
Speaker 1: only done opera and then they started to kind of
Speaker 1: diversify a little bit because I think they wanted to
Speaker 1: I don't know, like broaden the reach, I guess, and
Speaker 1: and make more money. Um that's just the way it looks,
Speaker 1: um from my perspective. So it started to get a
Speaker 1: little rough feeling, and you started to see, you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of these uh folks that were more used
Speaker 1: to the white glove and monocle uh situation. We started
Speaker 1: to see this other contingent kind of filing in and
Speaker 1: it sort of gave them a little bit of pause.
Speaker 1: Uh McCready went on stage. I started to deliver the
Speaker 1: first of his lines and was immediately cheered boot pissed
Speaker 1: at uh. And there were things like three grounds for
Speaker 1: the English bull dog, let's all for native talent. They
Speaker 1: wouldn't have said it in an English accent. They were
Speaker 1: in English at all. I don't know why I said that.
Speaker 1: It was funny they could there. You go, let's assume
Speaker 1: that's the case. Huzzah for the native talent exactly. I
Speaker 1: love hazzah. Huzzah is universal. You don't have to be
Speaker 1: British or American to use his uh um. And things
Speaker 1: just got worse from their apparent only it got so
Speaker 1: noisy that the performers had to kind of continue the
Speaker 1: performance in pantomime because he couldn't even hear the dialogue.
Speaker 1: And then things escalated from there in terms of like
Speaker 1: things getting chucked on stage, right, Yeah, Yeah, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: most My favorite part of this story is the same
Speaker 1: crowd cheered when mc duff first enters the story. She's
Speaker 1: as as you recall Shakespeare fans, he's the character who
Speaker 1: goes on to kill Macbeth spoilers. So that's how profoundly
Speaker 1: they hated McReady. And the stage wasn't just pelted with
Speaker 1: uh playbills or peanuts. People had brought things to throw
Speaker 1: at him, eggs, bottles, pennies, rotten fruit. Yes, that really
Speaker 1: used to happen. People would throw rotten fruit at actors,
Speaker 1: and eventually they had to end the performance before the
Speaker 1: play itself was done. At the same time, across town, Forest,
Speaker 1: by the way, is doing his own performance of Macbeth
Speaker 1: to a packed house of his own supporters, and this
Speaker 1: made mcgreedy livid in a very you know, buttoned up
Speaker 1: British way. He said, I'm going to cancel my tour.
Speaker 1: I'm leaving this golf of saking country full good. And
Speaker 1: it took some of New York's most highly regarded elites
Speaker 1: begging him for him to you know, reluctantly change his mind.
Speaker 1: Uh the other word, like the society folks, the literary giants,
Speaker 1: and so they said, Okay, we're gonna do another performance.
Speaker 1: We're going to call it a premier. We're gonna do
Speaker 1: it three days later. And that's where they messed up
Speaker 1: because this, fellow ridiculous historians, gave the authorities time to prepare,
Speaker 1: but it also gave the It also gave those mutual
Speaker 1: fan clubs time to prepare. Unless we need to really
Speaker 1: not uh bury the lead here. This was more than
Speaker 1: just like drunken heckling. This, like we said, this represented
Speaker 1: serious tensions between the upper and lower and middle classes.
Speaker 1: Uh and also the pro British versus staunchly anti anything
Speaker 1: foreign sentiments. So I mean, this was serious business. This
Speaker 1: represented something very real, even if it was just kind
Speaker 1: of like, you know, it seems a little frivolous talking
Speaker 1: about it now, I was like, wow, it was just
Speaker 1: like a freaking play. It's basically just like getting bad
Speaker 1: of shape about like you know, a movie or something,
Speaker 1: which not to say people don't do that that that,
Speaker 1: but certainly not to this degree. Um. There was a
Speaker 1: militia assembled, A three fifty person militia was assembled, and
Speaker 1: it was stationed at Washington Square Park on the ready
Speaker 1: right then, um, and they were kind of expecting that
Speaker 1: there was going to be some trouble, and that was
Speaker 1: assembled by the city's mayor, who was a Wig. That's
Speaker 1: a holdover from British governing. Yeah. The Whig Party, which
Speaker 1: is no longer active now, was pretty active in the
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds. They were an oppositional party. They rose to
Speaker 1: oppose President Andrew Jackson. So they their main constituents, or
Speaker 1: their their main components were former members of the Democratic Party,
Speaker 1: the Anti Masonic Party, which is a good thing for
Speaker 1: an episode later, and the National Republican Party got it.
Speaker 1: So would they have been more pro British or more
Speaker 1: pro you know, British sentiment or is this not even
Speaker 1: something that is worth considering in this situation. They you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's almost an episode of its own. They ultimately
Speaker 1: self destructed over the question of whether or not slavery
Speaker 1: should be expanded to the territories in the country at
Speaker 1: the time. So there were a lot of what we
Speaker 1: would call haves in the Whig Party. Okay, so this
Speaker 1: would have largely this three fifty man militia. We could
Speaker 1: probably consider them kind of in the MacCready camp. Oh yeah, oh,
Speaker 1: they're there to there to oppose the unwashed masses and
Speaker 1: their hooligan ring. Yeah. Oh, also, uh, Abraham Lincoln was
Speaker 1: leader of the Whig Party in Illinois once upon a time,
Speaker 1: So you know, I I don't want to paint with
Speaker 1: two broad a brush there, but yes, the three man
Speaker 1: strong militia was organized to stop any potential shenanigans on
Speaker 1: the part of forest supporters. So we fast forward tine
Speaker 1: the second performance still called a premier for marketing purposes.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. And let's also point out we
Speaker 1: may have glossed over this. This was essentially the rich
Speaker 1: contingent saying, how da are you treat our beloved MacCready
Speaker 1: in this way? You absolute trash human beings. We are
Speaker 1: going to be completely tone deaf about what this few represents,
Speaker 1: and we just think he deserves them all again because
Speaker 1: you were so you know, uh, dastardly to him with
Speaker 1: your rudeness and your pelting of eggs and all of that.
Speaker 1: They probably should have left well enough alone, Ben, not
Speaker 1: realizing that this was actually the match that could ignite
Speaker 1: an actual powder k. I'm not an actual literal powder
Speaker 1: keg a figurative powder k or an actual riot or
Speaker 1: conflict in the streets. But they were more concerned about
Speaker 1: coming off as as uh refined to this this gentleman
Speaker 1: and making sure that he would return to regale them
Speaker 1: with with with his uh you know, handkerchief waving performances
Speaker 1: in future engagements. Yeah, that's the thing they were. There
Speaker 1: was a lot of let us subjugate the lower class,
Speaker 1: teach them a lesson kind of reasoning behind their activities.
Speaker 1: I could just see, you know, I can see the
Speaker 1: members of high society shaking their hands in the ceiling
Speaker 1: of their chandelier and going the uncoutherie of it all
Speaker 1: the year, uncouthie. Uh so, yeah, you're you're absolutely right.
Speaker 1: Things got shady so quickly. Two officers from the police
Speaker 1: force were inside the theater, seventy five more were outside,
Speaker 1: but the crowd easily outnumbered them. We're talking about more
Speaker 1: than ten thousand people, and people in the crowd learned
Speaker 1: of an unethical trick. The McReady contingent had pulled an
Speaker 1: advance of the play. You see, they intentionally oversold the
Speaker 1: tickets for the show, and this gave the ushers the
Speaker 1: opportunity to uh, as the Smithsonian Mental Flaws phrase it,
Speaker 1: weed out the riff raff and still have a sold
Speaker 1: out premier. So they did this, by the way, because
Speaker 1: McReady's agents sold tickets that had a special identifying mark
Speaker 1: that said to the ushers, these are the people we
Speaker 1: actually want in the theater. So the four supporters who
Speaker 1: managed to get in in the first place found themselves
Speaker 1: cherry picked and arrested during the first act of the play,
Speaker 1: and the crowd of McGready fans were loudly cheering as
Speaker 1: they saw these people get dragged off, And then that's
Speaker 1: when eventually the prisoners set their holding cell on fire.
Speaker 1: One man yelling, I paid for ticket and they wouldn't
Speaker 1: let me in because I hadn't kid gloves in a
Speaker 1: white vest. Damn them. Kid gloves. Is that where that
Speaker 1: expression comes round? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, go goat skin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got it, kid. I always as soon handling things
Speaker 1: with kid gloves meant like, like, you know, having to
Speaker 1: deal with a small child. I was always give the
Speaker 1: other one these gloves for children, Like I confused. That
Speaker 1: makes perfect sense. Kid gloves, Marzi oats and dozy dots
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. Kids isn't even in that rhyme.
Speaker 1: What am I talking about? I just google it. It's
Speaker 1: it's a it's a funny rhyme about types of goats
Speaker 1: or something. Um. But yeah, it's true. People started throwing
Speaker 1: bricks or as they referred to them in those days,
Speaker 1: paving stones, um. And it was you know absolute bedlum.
Speaker 1: Windows were being broken. Uh. The opera house really started
Speaker 1: to look like that scene and lay miss, you know,
Speaker 1: with a barricade in the middle of the street and
Speaker 1: like you know, burning refuse piled up in and like
Speaker 1: a weird pyramid and uh yeah, I mean it's absolutely
Speaker 1: a scene, you know, like something out of out of
Speaker 1: a war movie inside an opera house. So now the
Speaker 1: opera house is starting to look like it is under siege,
Speaker 1: like there's some sort of army invading. Police and the
Speaker 1: state militia try to keep the crowds away from the theater.
Speaker 1: One General William Hall told the mayor straight up, look,
Speaker 1: it's time to open fire on these people, or it's
Speaker 1: time to pull back, because I am not gonna let
Speaker 1: my guys get stoned to death while they're carrying guns.
Speaker 1: So just give us the order, Mayor. It's time to
Speaker 1: ship or get off the pot. So this is where
Speaker 1: a man in the crowd shouts, fire it burn that
Speaker 1: damned dead of the aristocracy. Oh, and then the continuation
Speaker 1: of this quote is priceless. You danced, fire you sons
Speaker 1: of Do you dance? What does that mean? And that's
Speaker 1: that's the anonymous voice that rose above the crowd. Oh,
Speaker 1: working man, shall Americans or English rule? Uh? And then yeah,
Speaker 1: so the soldiers apparently did dance, and they and they
Speaker 1: and they fired. Yeah. I was interested in this because
Speaker 1: in the Stephen King novel The Shining Without Spoiling It,
Speaker 1: there is a scene where one character, in an exasperated tone,
Speaker 1: is yelling out, you dasn't you dasn't like? You dare not?
Speaker 1: I know that one. So it's it's a it's an
Speaker 1: outdated kind of archaic expression. Now, but I was looking
Speaker 1: into you darsn't. Does that mean you dare not? Fire? Like?
Speaker 1: Were they daring the soldiers to fire? Dare you dare not? Fire?
Speaker 1: You dare not? I think maybe dars and does dare not? Perhaps?
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's it's it's hard to say. We
Speaker 1: can only we can only make our best guests. But again,
Speaker 1: they did open fire. The soldiers volleyed some shots over
Speaker 1: the crowd's heads. They were meant more to be warning shots, uh,
Speaker 1: to kind of get them to simmer down a little bit,
Speaker 1: but it didn't really have the desired effect. Um and
Speaker 1: book kept, you know, hurling these paving stones and all
Speaker 1: of that. And that's when the soldiers decided to take
Speaker 1: it to the next level, and they set their sights
Speaker 1: and they actually fired into the crowd yep and the
Speaker 1: crowd continued surging forward. It was only until this militia
Speaker 1: threatened to use cannon fire that the crowds dispersed. And
Speaker 1: once everything had settled relatively speaking, there were eighteen people
Speaker 1: dead on the street, murdered by this militia, and there
Speaker 1: were dozens more people who were injured, not all of
Speaker 1: them involved in the riots, some people probably just like
Speaker 1: walking to the deli and getting caught up in this cacophony,
Speaker 1: this cavalcade of chaos. More than a hundred riders were arrested.
Speaker 1: And we have an account we found, uh reprinted in
Speaker 1: the Washington Post from eighteen forty nine that says this,
Speaker 1: which followed Beggar's old description. The wounded, the dying, and
Speaker 1: the dead was scattered in every direction. There were groans
Speaker 1: of agony, cries for help and oaths of vengeance. Some
Speaker 1: of the dead and wounded were laid out upon the
Speaker 1: billiards table of Vauxhall Saloon. A large crowd gathered around
Speaker 1: and speeches were made by excited orators. And it goes
Speaker 1: on to list the number of people killed, injured, and arrested.
Speaker 1: But it also, and this is interesting, it prints their
Speaker 1: occupations and background information about them. They're people like people
Speaker 1: work at grocery stores, carpenters, waiters, stuff like that. Not
Speaker 1: to take it into contemporary political direction, but as we know,
Speaker 1: the problem with riots and and looting and all of
Speaker 1: that is people do get caught in the crossfire, and
Speaker 1: oftentimes people that are there with the best of intentions,
Speaker 1: that are playing by the rules get lumped in with
Speaker 1: the quote unquote bad actors. Right, and then uh and
Speaker 1: if if, if lethal forces involved, that's a whole another
Speaker 1: ball game, because then everyone kind of gets swept up
Speaker 1: into the melee and it's it's a nasty scene. Um.
Speaker 1: There was a bystander by the name of Bridget Fagan
Speaker 1: who was thirty years old, shot in the leg while
Speaker 1: walking with her husband just along the bowery. Or a
Speaker 1: gentleman named George Gedney thirty four, who was a Wall
Speaker 1: Street stockbroker who was shot right through the head while
Speaker 1: watching all of this stuff unfold from in front of
Speaker 1: one of the very posh mansions, and that in that
Speaker 1: part of the city. Um So even people that weren't
Speaker 1: even there, like you said, had nothing to do with
Speaker 1: the got caught up in in all of this violence.
Speaker 1: And then you have to The thing about riots too,
Speaker 1: is is that there's got to be a narrative and
Speaker 1: there's always this kind of rush to blame somebody or
Speaker 1: figure out, you know who, who the one person or
Speaker 1: contingent that you know actually was the cause of said
Speaker 1: violence was, when usually it's a combination of of multiple parties.
Speaker 1: Not to mention the massive over correction by the cities,
Speaker 1: um I would say, not technically legal police supplements, you know,
Speaker 1: with these militia people who are gonna be much more
Speaker 1: tugger happy than maybe trained officers. I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't even know if that's true or not, but it
Speaker 1: certainly feels like it was quite an overreaction and it
Speaker 1: was Irish immigrants that were blamed. Uh, the Irish always
Speaker 1: get blamed. It seems like in a lot of these situations,
Speaker 1: but the true evidence pointed to anti immigrant forces, um
Speaker 1: much more than actual you know, immigrants themselves. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: very much in line with that Gangs of New York
Speaker 1: kind of echotomy that you mentioned at the top there. Noluh.
Speaker 1: But what about the most controversial British actor in New
Speaker 1: York City? Mc ready high tailed it out first through
Speaker 1: a back exit of the theater, and then he high
Speaker 1: tailed it to his posh hotel, and then because he
Speaker 1: was worried that the mob would lay siege to his
Speaker 1: hotel and then kill him, he high tailed it from
Speaker 1: New York entirely in a few days. He was in Boston.
Speaker 1: But what about the aftermath here? Oh? What about it? Indeed,
Speaker 1: and real quickly, just to back check, I made a
Speaker 1: it was kind of just an off the cuff assertion
Speaker 1: in the top that this was during the time period
Speaker 1: of the Gangs of New York. And then I realized
Speaker 1: I hadn't confirmed that, so I sort of walked that back.
Speaker 1: But now, the Gangs of New York period, with all
Speaker 1: of those huge gang wars, was only a very brief period,
Speaker 1: and it was from eighteen thirty four to eighteen forty four,
Speaker 1: and this is an eighteen forty nine, so this really
Speaker 1: is like right part and parcel with that whole vibe
Speaker 1: in the city. Right. But that's why I said that,
Speaker 1: I thought you were comparison was spot on because we
Speaker 1: still see the antonomous Irish uh sentis and absolutely, for
Speaker 1: some reason I just thought maybe it would have been
Speaker 1: further removed, but it really was like right on the
Speaker 1: heels of that, so that stuff would have just absolutely
Speaker 1: still been in the air. So your to your point,
Speaker 1: that's absolutely right. The news of the day was, you know,
Speaker 1: was very consciously oriented toward keeping opprobrium upon that Irish
Speaker 1: American population. We're not in any way diminished that, but
Speaker 1: they were opportunists for sure, the media, I mean, not
Speaker 1: not the Irish population, new question about it. They absolutely
Speaker 1: had their own agendas and access to grind. And we
Speaker 1: actually have a kind of a recollection from Major General
Speaker 1: Charles Stanford, who led that New York militia, of of
Speaker 1: the events that took place, and this is what he said,
Speaker 1: I have never seen a mob so violent as the
Speaker 1: one on that evening. I never before had occasion to
Speaker 1: give the order to fire. And then you know, after
Speaker 1: the riot, there were bodies thrown in the streets. I mean,
Speaker 1: it really was like something out of a war movie, um,
Speaker 1: only it was much more of like a civil war
Speaker 1: kind of situation. It really, truly was a mini civil
Speaker 1: war between the haves and the have nots, all over
Speaker 1: which version of Macbeth they liked the best, but representing
Speaker 1: something much larger. Yeah, that's how it started. One thing
Speaker 1: that people don't often talk about when they talk about
Speaker 1: the story is the second riot that almost occurred with
Speaker 1: people marching like an army in Lower Manhattan. That riot
Speaker 1: was quelled, uh and a few days after the first riot,
Speaker 1: a jury relieved the police and militia of any and
Speaker 1: all responsibility for the shootings, saying that they were justified.
Speaker 1: Five more people died of their wounds in the days after,
Speaker 1: so the total the total fatalities of this riot were
Speaker 1: twenty three people dead, but maybe as many as thirty one,
Speaker 1: and people who were seeing as instigators of the riots
Speaker 1: were up for trial as well. Many were convicted find
Speaker 1: and jailed, including that author Ned Buntline, who was one
Speaker 1: of the people shouting in the crowd. He wasn't the
Speaker 1: guy was like you darsn't, but he was. He was
Speaker 1: hanging out with those folks. Forest continued, uh continued performing
Speaker 1: after this. They both continued performing after this, And this
Speaker 1: is I don't know what to think about this win Nol.
Speaker 1: But he eventually had this dramatic falling out and divorce
Speaker 1: from his English wife and went on to perform regularly
Speaker 1: until he passed away suddenly in eighteen seventy two at
Speaker 1: the age of sixty six. And you know astor place,
Speaker 1: this area and and and the theater that that you know,
Speaker 1: it was centered around. Um already had a reputation as
Speaker 1: being kind of a hot spot for the wealthy and
Speaker 1: powerful and the kind of like shining uh tower on
Speaker 1: the hill, you know, where the the the elite were
Speaker 1: able to live and work and play. And it just
Speaker 1: kind of continued to deepen those resentments, right especially after
Speaker 1: you know, loss of life that resulted. It was about
Speaker 1: more than just Shakespeare and which which acted you like
Speaker 1: the best. It really was kind of a almost like
Speaker 1: a French Revolution type experience, like almost like a mini
Speaker 1: revolution Um and it was. It did go down in
Speaker 1: history as one of the most uh violent riots in
Speaker 1: the city's history until the eighteen sixty three draft riots
Speaker 1: Um that took place during the Civil War. So it's
Speaker 1: you know, interchangeably referred to as the Shakespeare Riot or
Speaker 1: the astor Place riot. And this had immediate impacts that
Speaker 1: resonated not just in New York City but around the country. Um. Uh.
Speaker 1: New York City police were armed at this point, where
Speaker 1: I guess they hadn't been, and then municipal constables around
Speaker 1: the country were also armed. Um. And the words spread
Speaker 1: through the relatively new invention that was the telegraph. And
Speaker 1: this is when you start to see a little bit
Speaker 1: more of almost the earliest days of the militarization of
Speaker 1: the police. Um. And you know, the idea of like
Speaker 1: a police state or something. It's pretty fascinating. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: up until that point, a lot of the beat cops
Speaker 1: would just be walking around with like nightsticks, for example.
Speaker 1: And now they were carrying heavy firepower, and there was
Speaker 1: more heavy weaponry um given to police departments and things
Speaker 1: like armored vehicles and stuff and such. Yeah, that's why
Speaker 1: you will see authors such as Jonathan Richards writing for
Speaker 1: Santa Fe, New Mexican saying that this sets a precedent
Speaker 1: for the path of increased militarization and uh. And in
Speaker 1: arguing that you can trace it back there. I don't
Speaker 1: think the answers as clear cut, but there's definitely something
Speaker 1: to the argument. This also marked the what people call
Speaker 1: the beginning of the end for Shakespeare as popular entertainment
Speaker 1: in the US, because now the secret that everybody knew
Speaker 1: but no one really talked about of alienation between the
Speaker 1: various American classes was front and center. Like someone doing
Speaker 1: a monologue. In Shakespeare, it was it was right there
Speaker 1: for all to see, and it had a spotlight upon it,
Speaker 1: perhaps for the first time. So the culture of the
Speaker 1: country shifted and Shakespeare, if We're Good or Ill, started
Speaker 1: to become regarded as more of a a highbrow form
Speaker 1: of entertainment. And I do want to take this moment
Speaker 1: to point out that Shakespeare is still very accessible and
Speaker 1: super enjoyable if you get the chance to see a
Speaker 1: solid production of it on stage. Uh, the shows are
Speaker 1: a lot of fun, They're worth the price of a ticket,
Speaker 1: and perhaps most importantly, you don't have to riot to
Speaker 1: have a riotous good time. Well said Ben Well said,
Speaker 1: And way to bring a full circle, so we can
Speaker 1: wrap this one up for today. Huge thanks to super
Speaker 1: producer Casey Pragam Here in spirit today along with Christopher Hascios.
Speaker 1: They're kind of hovering above us in the clouds, looking
Speaker 1: down on us like good ghost parents. Uh, and I
Speaker 1: really appreciate that as always. Yeah, and of course huge
Speaker 1: thanks to the quister also known as Jonathan Strickland, who
Speaker 1: was gonna be a little bit a little bit dumpling
Speaker 1: steamed to know that. Uh, we didn't have him on
Speaker 1: his Shakespeare episode, but we'll make it up to him.
Speaker 1: And of course big big thanks to Gaye Lousier or
Speaker 1: Gaye Lousier however you wish to pronounce it for some
Speaker 1: awesome research Alley oops with us one h thanks to
Speaker 1: Alex Williams who composed our themis Jeff Coach. Check out
Speaker 1: her show um this day in History class, along with
Speaker 1: amazing new things that she's got in the in the
Speaker 1: works that can't talk about quite yet, but be on
Speaker 1: the lookout big things coming from Eaves and man beat.
Speaker 1: Thanks to you for joining me in this Shakespeare Ryan
Speaker 1: throwing back a bottle of good tidings. Uh and great
Speaker 1: joy and old thanks for thanks for shotgunning with me
Speaker 1: on this one without either of us actually firing a shotgun,
Speaker 1: which apparently sets the bar of podcasting a little bit
Speaker 1: higher than the bar of mid Shakespeare performances. I don't
Speaker 1: know if there's an Emmy for that or a Webby,
Speaker 1: but you know, you can just you can just reward
Speaker 1: us by hanging out with us on the internet where
Speaker 1: we are Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, We're Ridiculous History or some
Speaker 1: derivation thereof. But of course the best place to find us,
Speaker 1: and more importantly your fellow listeners is to join Ridiculous
Speaker 1: Historians our Facebook page. Yes, I have to do his
Speaker 1: name one or both or anybody part of the Ridiculous
Speaker 1: History mythos uh, and you'll be in and lots of
Speaker 1: good times to be had there. Uh. You can also
Speaker 1: check out me and Ben as individual human beings on
Speaker 1: the Internet. I am at how Now Noel Brown on Instagram,
Speaker 1: I am at Ben Bulling H s W on Twitter,
Speaker 1: and I am at Ben Bulling on Instagram, where I
Speaker 1: go through various weird visual thesis like right now I
Speaker 1: live with a life size plastic skeleton, because that's that's
Speaker 1: where I am. In the age of pandemic names. We're
Speaker 1: all somewhere doing our best every day. Please join us
Speaker 1: for the next episode of Ridiculous History, where super Breuster
Speaker 1: Casey Pegram will return from his his sick leave and
Speaker 1: and hopefully we'll make him brown. We'll see you next
Speaker 1: time Fox. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit
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