Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're
Speaker 1: listening to Software Radio Special Operations, military news and straight
Speaker 1: talk with the guys and the community. Hello and everyone,
Speaker 1: Welcome to Software Radio. I'm your host today, Steve Blastari
Speaker 1: joining me today we have a very special guest, MACERELLI
Speaker 1: was a Force Marine Force Recon n c O. He
Speaker 1: was a Navy Sale officer, did tours of duty in Iraq.
Speaker 1: I think I believe Afghanistan as well. He's been around
Speaker 1: the world. He's uh, he's what I would call one
Speaker 1: of the subject matter experts on leadership and teaching leadership,
Speaker 1: and there is a a darth of that in the
Speaker 1: civilian world. And uh, he's just written a book and
Speaker 1: it is a fantastic one. It's called The Talent War.
Speaker 1: How special operations and great organizations went on talent and Uh.
Speaker 1: I think our listeners today are really gonna get into this.
Speaker 1: I think they're gonna love it. And when you listen
Speaker 1: to uh to Mike, I think you're gonna understand exactly
Speaker 1: where he's coming from on this. So before I get
Speaker 1: any further, Mike, welcome to the podcast. We really appreciate
Speaker 1: you taking the time today, especially just before Thanksgiving did I.
Speaker 1: I'm humbled to be here and Steve, I, you know,
Speaker 1: appreciative that you would even have me on and thank
Speaker 1: you for that intro. Just one fact checked. UM didn't
Speaker 1: make it to Force Recon. I was Italian Recon, first
Speaker 1: recon company at the time. They turned into at the time. Uh,
Speaker 1: tried it out Proportricon love those guys, but got picked
Speaker 1: up for an auser program before that that came to Fruition. Okay,
Speaker 1: but my mistake, I thought you were yeah, yeah, because
Speaker 1: when you were in Recon, that was before they were
Speaker 1: special ops. Right. It was in the driving factor of
Speaker 1: why I switched over to the Seals is that you know,
Speaker 1: as a recon marine when when we step on chip
Speaker 1: with the Seals, Dude, they had more funding. Uh, they
Speaker 1: were getting missions and you know, we were losing out
Speaker 1: in the Marine Corps because of that. And that's why
Speaker 1: I switched over to two so common tried out for
Speaker 1: the Seals. Okay, U just fill in our listeners just
Speaker 1: a little bit. You don't have to go to in
Speaker 1: depth if you don't want to about your military career, UM,
Speaker 1: and how you ended up where you're at right now
Speaker 1: with the you know, being an author and you know
Speaker 1: a talent coordinator or I guess you could say, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's funny that you say author that that still
Speaker 1: doesn't strike, you know, hit home with just the dude
Speaker 1: that wrote a book on a subject and he's fassionated
Speaker 1: about with with with two other guys with the good dudes.
Speaker 1: But you know, I I enlisted in the Marine Corps,
Speaker 1: uh fairly soon after high school. I've met a forced
Speaker 1: recon marine and I'm like, dude, I want to be
Speaker 1: just like that guy. Humbly, competent, articulate, respectful of everyone.
Speaker 1: People just gravitated towards them. And you talk about it
Speaker 1: like the perfect recruiting tool. It's that that Army green
Speaker 1: beret out there. He was just you know, showing the
Speaker 1: organization and just the best light. Um, that's what draws
Speaker 1: young men into the military, like meeting for good reasons.
Speaker 1: But I made it. The first recoon battalion went through
Speaker 1: the same school that the forced recound guys went through.
Speaker 1: I was just to junior, became a Scott sniper in
Speaker 1: the Marine Corps, and then after a few years in
Speaker 1: the Marine Corps said hey, we we want to make
Speaker 1: you an officer, so they sent me back to school
Speaker 1: to finish my degree the war kicked off. I finished
Speaker 1: school three years, doubled up on credits to get out
Speaker 1: of there and enjoy the war effort um. And before
Speaker 1: I did, after Marino CS, I put it inn service
Speaker 1: transferring and went to buds fright out for the Seals.
Speaker 1: Served a few deployments, my first initial deployments, and I
Speaker 1: wrapped Battle of Ramadi, Battle of Solder City, and then
Speaker 1: after that went back to instruct young seal officers that
Speaker 1: was their last line of defense, to turn them into
Speaker 1: ground force commanders as we call it. And while I
Speaker 1: was there, I received in the invitation to trap j Jaysack.
Speaker 1: Made it through that assessment and selection, spent the majority
Speaker 1: of my career at jaysk Uh ten total combat deployments
Speaker 1: eleven deployments in total um, and just consider myself fortunate
Speaker 1: to have served alongside some of the most selfless men
Speaker 1: and women who I truly believe are the very best
Speaker 1: of America has. And that's why I wrote this book
Speaker 1: to paint veterans in a different like and also businesses
Speaker 1: as they look to form their own elite teams. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, when it comes to the book
Speaker 1: and you talk about this, there's such a misconception I
Speaker 1: think in the civilian world and you know, big business
Speaker 1: about what military leadership really is. And you know, I
Speaker 1: think misconceptions about how military people are when they bring
Speaker 1: them into their organization. Excuse me, uh, And you talked
Speaker 1: about that in your book, and you know, um, I
Speaker 1: think we've all had experiences with that. Um. I know
Speaker 1: I did. When I got to a civilian company, I
Speaker 1: did an interview with people, and when they found out
Speaker 1: I was s F they were like, hey, uh, we
Speaker 1: hope you don't get too stressed out here in the interview,
Speaker 1: and I was like, what, what would you think is
Speaker 1: gonna happen here? You know, it was like they were
Speaker 1: treating you with kid gloves because as they think, you know, um,
Speaker 1: that special operators as a whole, not just s of guys.
Speaker 1: I mean, they think we're kind of like these mindless
Speaker 1: drones who just follow orders and go blow stuff up.
Speaker 1: And it was kind of I took it insultingly at
Speaker 1: the time. It's simple, Steve, I've got a theory on this,
Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's both the good and the bad.
Speaker 1: But it comes from the same source. If I'm going
Speaker 1: to make an assessment about what like investment banking is, like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna based on off of the movie Wall Street
Speaker 1: or Wolf of Wall Street. Um, because I've never been
Speaker 1: in that that community or books. I read Hollywood because
Speaker 1: Americans are in the military, their their opinions about the
Speaker 1: military are formed from Hollywood. Hollywood is the greatest recruiting
Speaker 1: tools from the military. It's also the worst enemy in
Speaker 1: painting veterans in a negative light. You look at the tune,
Speaker 1: which is the Vietnam Are that. You know, a lot
Speaker 1: of Vietnam veterans hated that movie because they're like, hey,
Speaker 1: that that that that paints us in a really horrible light,
Speaker 1: and that's not That's not how we want to be,
Speaker 1: uh conveyed. You know. My first time because I didn't
Speaker 1: come from the military lineage. I came from from the
Speaker 1: Bay Area, and so I was stationed at Camp Penalty
Speaker 1: one day because I was one of the only dudes
Speaker 1: with the car at a Nissan Pathliner. We literally squeezed
Speaker 1: ten dudes for the six hour drive from San Diego
Speaker 1: to the Bay Area to go stay at my folks
Speaker 1: home for for one weekend of course, we partied our
Speaker 1: asses off, but when I came in, my mom was shocked.
Speaker 1: Is you know, hey, part of the military culture is
Speaker 1: sometimes guys have to sleep tattoos. And she's like, when
Speaker 1: you guys walked in, Uh, it was like a biker
Speaker 1: gang walked into the house, you know. And she she said,
Speaker 1: I made the snap judgment. And she telled me this
Speaker 1: after the weekend. She's like, I've never met more respectful,
Speaker 1: articulate like young men in my life. And she was like,
Speaker 1: she looks at me and she's like, I'm so proud
Speaker 1: of what you're doing. Because of course the NI they
Speaker 1: had reservations about me joining the military. You know, that
Speaker 1: wasn't a highlight or a great time in the military. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, funding wasn't great. We didn't have great training,
Speaker 1: and you know, every time as I went to the Seals,
Speaker 1: I would take my platoon and my troop to Silicon
Speaker 1: Value to meet with business leaders. The business leaders will
Speaker 1: come to me and they're like, I have never met
Speaker 1: more result mission oriented then in my life. I actually
Speaker 1: took a group of Seal leaders from Jay Sack to
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley in two thousand thirteen. We met with Larry Ellison,
Speaker 1: Sergey Brin, Bill Campbell arranged this whole trip. The secret
Speaker 1: coach of Silicon Valley. He was no longer with us.
Speaker 1: Carol Barts of God who marked Dennie Off. I mean,
Speaker 1: the list goes on marking trees and authors themselves, and
Speaker 1: each of them were like, if I had a talent
Speaker 1: pool like this, I would hire all these guys as
Speaker 1: an heartbeat and people. Again, you know, we had a
Speaker 1: purpose during the global warm terror. We believed in what
Speaker 1: we were doing. And some of my guys and listen,
Speaker 1: guys have two master's degrees. Some of them are at
Speaker 1: Harvard or Wharton right now, and they got their undergraduates
Speaker 1: at American Military University or or or tried to Military
Speaker 1: University or Norwich. They got it while they were on deployment.
Speaker 1: And now they're getting masters from I V League schools.
Speaker 1: That's how intelligent these guys are. That's how driven these
Speaker 1: men and women are. I mean, these are people that
Speaker 1: company companies couldn't pay enough money for it to step
Speaker 1: in run the respective department or team within their businesses
Speaker 1: and drive the organization to a new level. And that's
Speaker 1: what American But this book ain't about that it's more
Speaker 1: about how Special Operations assesses and flex and builds their
Speaker 1: team based off character. But yeah, I think it hits
Speaker 1: home that you know, this talent pool, it is probably
Speaker 1: one of the most politic coun pools in America, and
Speaker 1: it's the most overlooked as well. I firmly believe that,
Speaker 1: um and and you talk about it in the book
Speaker 1: because basically, you know, when when you're hiring talent, whether
Speaker 1: it be in the special ops community or in the
Speaker 1: business community, it's all about finding the right person. And
Speaker 1: you know, when reading your book, you know, one of
Speaker 1: the things that I stands out right away is the
Speaker 1: you know, the forward was written by Jocko, who's a
Speaker 1: guy that I have a tremendous amount of respect for.
Speaker 1: I've read some of this stuff, yeah Jocko. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then then come to find out you guys served together.
Speaker 1: I've watched some of his podcast. I think he's like,
Speaker 1: he's one of those guys that you put up there,
Speaker 1: is like one of the most intriguing characters there are
Speaker 1: because he's just he's a guy you put up there
Speaker 1: because I think he epitomizes everything that we look for
Speaker 1: are in a special operator and uh, you know, reading
Speaker 1: his his forward and they have set the tone for
Speaker 1: the book right away. But it's all about the people.
Speaker 1: That's what it comes down to. People. Everyone looks for
Speaker 1: this or that, but it always comes down to people
Speaker 1: and leadership. And uh, that's what you know you were
Speaker 1: talking about in the book where you said talent and
Speaker 1: leadership equal victory. And I thought that stood out right away.
Speaker 1: And it all starts at the beginning about assessing, assessing
Speaker 1: and selecting the right people. And see that. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: got a highlight to the audience. Um, because we we
Speaker 1: talked before we started recording, you got this book actually
Speaker 1: started starts talking about a story about the fifth Special
Speaker 1: Forces Group, which we all know, you know, that's your
Speaker 1: community known, and what these small twelve man teams did
Speaker 1: against an estimated enemy force of Taliban and Alcada to
Speaker 1: the tune of a few hundred dream Rays defeated a
Speaker 1: far superior numerically force, numerical force by building coalitions with
Speaker 1: friendly Afghan So I made it a very particular note
Speaker 1: that Seal wrote a book and started off with that
Speaker 1: only special portion. I've got a lot of actimunty highly
Speaker 1: respect it. I don't really play into the whole. Hey,
Speaker 1: who's better Seals or Special Forces? If I were to
Speaker 1: create my version of Rainbow six, it would just be
Speaker 1: that there'd be guys from the SF community. They'd be
Speaker 1: dudes from Jay Sock. There would be some seals in there.
Speaker 1: There'd be some for Srikon Rings now marsok Uh, you
Speaker 1: know each community draws exceptional talent. But um Jocko writing
Speaker 1: the forward, Jocko was a mentor of mine. I served
Speaker 1: in his task unit during the Battle of dy And
Speaker 1: the funny thing about leadership is, I don't think there's
Speaker 1: an original thought on the concept of leadership out there anymore.
Speaker 1: I know I don't have an original thought. I am
Speaker 1: a compilation of great mentors and coaches, Jocko being one
Speaker 1: of it, a lot of Marine officers and Marine senior enlisted,
Speaker 1: a lot of Seal senior enlisted, and a lot of
Speaker 1: SF officers and senior listed. Because I got to be
Speaker 1: a guest instructor Phase two at the s F Qualification
Speaker 1: course for about two months, I was blown away by
Speaker 1: the systems that that that you guys have put in
Speaker 1: place to assess talent. And uh, you know Chris Bustle,
Speaker 1: who penned the book Team of Teams for Stamley McCrystal
Speaker 1: was one of my commanding officers. It's just a long
Speaker 1: line of great leaders that I have the privilege to
Speaker 1: serve for and hopefully I'm carrying on their name in
Speaker 1: a positive way. Yeah. And you know when you when
Speaker 1: you wrote the book, you had a couple of co
Speaker 1: authors that really intriguing people as well. Josh Cotton who
Speaker 1: worked with Navy Special Operators Marine Corps of Special Operators
Speaker 1: SF guys and George and I caught part of a
Speaker 1: podcast you and George did that was really really good.
Speaker 1: How did you guys all get together? So? Dr Cotton
Speaker 1: and I met after I retired. I had started a
Speaker 1: foundation with the help of General Tony Kukloh, Admiral Bobby
Speaker 1: and Then who was also the former director of the CIA,
Speaker 1: and ADELM creating um in. Dr Cotton had been hired
Speaker 1: by Special Operations to come in and assess how we
Speaker 1: assess and select and hopefully designed some assessments to try
Speaker 1: to predict who would have a higher chance of making
Speaker 1: it through the training. He was blown away by the
Speaker 1: caliber of talent that we have in the community, to
Speaker 1: the point where He created something called the Elite Performance
Speaker 1: Indicator that now businesses are using to assess potential, you know,
Speaker 1: high performing individuals during the hiring process. So he brought
Speaker 1: what he learned by watching special operations, you have brought
Speaker 1: it to the business world, and so we we've remade close.
Speaker 1: We have conversations about talent and you know, funny enough
Speaker 1: about Dr Totton. What I love is the humility he'll
Speaker 1: He'll give you a theory and he'll always follow it
Speaker 1: up with but I don't know, like the data has
Speaker 1: elected for decades, UH to validate it. And then George
Speaker 1: randall Um, an old army dog must stay enlisted. The
Speaker 1: officer back in the eighties and nineties had been in
Speaker 1: talent acquisition for twenty years. This is I mean, this
Speaker 1: is the power of LinkedIn. Reached out to me said, hey,
Speaker 1: I saw you in the space, highly admire what you're
Speaker 1: doing the d FO WATCH, which is my military executive
Speaker 1: search firm, and said would love to meet at Kirby Lane,
Speaker 1: which is an iconic directors place in Austin. We did.
Speaker 1: We've been friends ever since, to the point where he
Speaker 1: I actually asked him to serve as the pastor at
Speaker 1: my wife and I his wedding, so you know, consider
Speaker 1: him a brother. And he definitely has the expertise in
Speaker 1: the hiring room, talent acquisition and executive search. He's made
Speaker 1: over eighty thou hires or been involved in stood up
Speaker 1: the vesteran hiring program at Ewitt Packard KP KPMG before
Speaker 1: it was bought by the boy in Boozel. Hamilton's um.
Speaker 1: So in terms of him prepping like debts for interviews
Speaker 1: in the job market, I've never found anyone as astute
Speaker 1: or a skilled as he is. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 1: one of the things you talked about in the book, um,
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, when you talk in industry
Speaker 1: and how people hire, they hire for experience, and a
Speaker 1: lot of times they hire from outside their own their
Speaker 1: own organization, and and it goes against everything that you know,
Speaker 1: we believe in because you know, in special ops, whether
Speaker 1: it be in the Navy Seal Team or SF a team,
Speaker 1: we promote from within because we trained um, you know,
Speaker 1: we trained operators to basically take over our job, which
Speaker 1: a lot of people in the civilian world a kind
Speaker 1: of the kind of loathe on that because they try
Speaker 1: to stare away from that they're always afraid somebody's going
Speaker 1: to take their job. And it all and again it
Speaker 1: comes down to, you know, hire for character, trained for
Speaker 1: the skill. As you put out in one of your chapters.
Speaker 1: I know I'm kind of bouncing around here in your book,
Speaker 1: but you and see that's a great point to to
Speaker 1: accentuate too. Let me preface to this, my response to this.
Speaker 1: The default mode for human beings is actually to follow
Speaker 1: the path of least resistance, which means to be lazy
Speaker 1: and to choose the easy things that are objective and
Speaker 1: easy to measure, which if you're hiring somebody, it's very
Speaker 1: easy to look at somebody's best in man and say, oh,
Speaker 1: they have five years of marketing experience. But this candidon
Speaker 1: over here, who has great character, has zero years of
Speaker 1: marketing experience. Let's go with the path of least resistance.
Speaker 1: The candidate that induces the least fear the person within
Speaker 1: this experience and industry experience is not predictive of success.
Speaker 1: You've seen this. You've seen young kids come through the
Speaker 1: eighteen X ray program for the audience. That is what
Speaker 1: the s F community designed. Mainly. I think Jerry Boykin,
Speaker 1: General Boykin was very uh transformative with that effort and
Speaker 1: basically got kids out of college in high school to
Speaker 1: become direct and try out directly for the Special Forces.
Speaker 1: And what they found is that they don't bring any
Speaker 1: bad habits and that they were as successful at becoming
Speaker 1: Special Forces green Berets as somebody that had five years
Speaker 1: of experience in the army, if not more. Uh successful.
Speaker 1: So you know, if Special Operations hired for industry experience,
Speaker 1: we wouldn't have anyone to hire because it doesn't exist.
Speaker 1: I can't go to a high school in an auditorium
Speaker 1: of a hundred kids and say, hey, raise your hand
Speaker 1: if you have a Special Operations experience. You know read racist.
Speaker 1: I say, oh, sorry, guys, that sucks. Go join the
Speaker 1: French for Lee. You can come back after you have
Speaker 1: five years now. But that didn't deter us from building
Speaker 1: these elite teams. All we had to do was say, Roger,
Speaker 1: this is the talent pool that we draw from, so
Speaker 1: we need to become very good at assessing character in
Speaker 1: people with high potential. And that's what Special Operations set
Speaker 1: to task of designing something called assessment and selection, which
Speaker 1: when you look at how Special Operations does this regardless
Speaker 1: of community It basically is the world's longest behavioral interview.
Speaker 1: And we take people with zero industry experience and we
Speaker 1: turn them into professionals in a matter of two years,
Speaker 1: highly capable soldiers, in fact, the most capable soldiers in
Speaker 1: the world. And then we deploy them in small numbers
Speaker 1: against numerically superior forces. In time and time again they
Speaker 1: emerge successful delivering strategic impacts for our nation. Um So,
Speaker 1: as these companies look at the talent pools at our
Speaker 1: applying for these positions, you have to change your mindset.
Speaker 1: You have to become this JOCKO says deep, all aggressive
Speaker 1: and assess for character. Ultimately, the reason Special Operations has
Speaker 1: designed the training the way it is is not because
Speaker 1: we're sadistic and we'd like to see people in pain. No,
Speaker 1: we understand that it is only at one's limits, their
Speaker 1: mental and physical limits, that true character emerges, and that's
Speaker 1: what we're looking for. Funny enough, Brian Decker, who we
Speaker 1: both discussed before we hit recorded, a well known Special
Speaker 1: Forces attendant colonel that sort of is credited with revolutionizing
Speaker 1: how Special Forces assesses and select talent, said that is
Speaker 1: also the point at one's limits that skills hard skills
Speaker 1: actually degrade and all your left with this character. COVID
Speaker 1: is a perfect example of where people thought they had
Speaker 1: a great workforce, but actually when chaos hit a luke
Speaker 1: environment volatility of certainty, complexity and mute the environment, we thrive.
Speaker 1: I've been a special operations. The business world felt that
Speaker 1: and a lot of their workforces were not equipped with
Speaker 1: the character needed to thrive in a very uh environment
Speaker 1: described by hearing uncertaintly. Yeah, in fact, you were. You
Speaker 1: were mentioned in Brian Decker earlier because you know when uh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna date myself here. But back in I was
Speaker 1: one of the instructors when they first started uh selection
Speaker 1: and assessment. Back then we just call it Special Forces
Speaker 1: Orientation and Training. We call s f o T. The
Speaker 1: first few classes and because we had never had an
Speaker 1: assessment and selection corpse, you know, when they brought instructors
Speaker 1: from the different groups into the Special Warfare Center, they
Speaker 1: said to us, well, you guys gonna be working that
Speaker 1: selection or s f O T, which is now s
Speaker 1: f A S. And they said, before you can assess people,
Speaker 1: you have to actually go through the course, which didn't
Speaker 1: go over well because you know, for the older guys
Speaker 1: that would been in you know, the operational groups being
Speaker 1: reduced back to a candidate for a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: while you go through that wasn't on the top of
Speaker 1: everyone's list. But then it all sunk in and how
Speaker 1: it's all supposed to work, Because this is where I
Speaker 1: think that's that you know, and you talk about it
Speaker 1: in the book. You know, when when somebody they can
Speaker 1: go into an interview and always put their best foot
Speaker 1: forward and you know, be personable and be charming and
Speaker 1: you know, schmooz and but you don't really know that
Speaker 1: person's character until he's cold, he's wet, he's tired, he's starving, uh,
Speaker 1: and he has a bunch of things being thrown in
Speaker 1: his face and he has to make sound decisions and
Speaker 1: work as a member of a team. That's when you
Speaker 1: find out who these guys are. And I remember when
Speaker 1: classes started, and I'm sure guys in this sale teams
Speaker 1: did it. You know, we'd all look at guys and say, oh,
Speaker 1: this guy looks like a stud. He's probably gonna be fine.
Speaker 1: Those are the guys that kind of dropped off the
Speaker 1: you know then right as you call it ringing the bell,
Speaker 1: but our guys would just you know, raise their hand
Speaker 1: that they want out those of There are a lot
Speaker 1: of times the first guys that that failed and the
Speaker 1: guys that you know, you wouldn't think would be standing
Speaker 1: there at the end were and it was because they
Speaker 1: had those character traits that we're all looking for. And
Speaker 1: it definitely it carries over into the civilian world, does
Speaker 1: it not, without a doubt us. The thing is a
Speaker 1: lot of people hiring their image, or they hire for
Speaker 1: what they think is culture fit, which actually is likability.
Speaker 1: And that's what a lot of companies, uh companies in
Speaker 1: the business world tend to grab onto these these buzz words.
Speaker 1: It goes in phases, um like you know, when it
Speaker 1: was diversity inclusion being one of them, or I'm trying
Speaker 1: to think of like the other one is it's about candles,
Speaker 1: And a lot of people are grasping onto this concept
Speaker 1: of culture. The culture is important, you have to be
Speaker 1: very intentional about the cultures. But what a lot of
Speaker 1: people are confusing with culture fit is actual likability. And
Speaker 1: because you want to share a beer with somebody does
Speaker 1: not mean that they are get fits of the team
Speaker 1: or because they think like you. Ultimately within special operations.
Speaker 1: And I tell this to people as I'm like, if
Speaker 1: you think I liked all the seals on my team,
Speaker 1: or to fall the seals on my team like me,
Speaker 1: you're wrong. But as professionals, we knew we were a
Speaker 1: high performing team that could put their egos and their
Speaker 1: feelings aside to achieve a common goal. And that's what
Speaker 1: really a company is. You're building a high performing team.
Speaker 1: You're not building a family. We all have those. You're
Speaker 1: building a high performing team. You don't need to like
Speaker 1: everyone on your team. Even from a sports perspective, if
Speaker 1: you go back and watch about you know, the Michael
Speaker 1: Jordan's era the Bowl, or the New York Yankees, when
Speaker 1: you know they had Jeter and uh In a Rod no, like,
Speaker 1: not all of them got along, but they could perform
Speaker 1: as a team. And that's what matters. The business world
Speaker 1: has to be very careful here. Your talent is not
Speaker 1: gonna look like a particular size, sex, gender, sexual orientation.
Speaker 1: It's all over the place. And Steve, let me share
Speaker 1: this last story with you. In Buds, there was a
Speaker 1: kid who was really unassuming and here I am a
Speaker 1: recon marine and scout sniber sending it stepping in the
Speaker 1: heel training, and I had instant sort of respect from
Speaker 1: the other students, and they did gravitate towards me Um,
Speaker 1: and that was sort of, you know, the standout leader
Speaker 1: in that class, because I've been through those environments before.
Speaker 1: Thrived out of every school I went to, was usually
Speaker 1: the honored man, even out of Marino cs UM and
Speaker 1: I just sort of looked past this one kid, shrugged
Speaker 1: my shoulders and thought, you probably won't be here in
Speaker 1: a week or two. That kid went on to pass
Speaker 1: seal training, stood right next to me in Hell week,
Speaker 1: then checked into Seal Team three with me. Um became
Speaker 1: a special Operations medic, which we call him a team Deltas.
Speaker 1: So went through that school, which is not an easy school,
Speaker 1: went to Snipper School, and on our first employment, we
Speaker 1: ended up in the same tasking during the Battle of
Speaker 1: the Money. This individual was awarded the Silver Star. Then
Speaker 1: went on another deployment with me to the Battle of
Speaker 1: Soder City, where he performed maybe said we want to
Speaker 1: make you an officer. They sent him to the University
Speaker 1: of San Diego where he got a three point ninety
Speaker 1: in mathematics, which I don't know who takes mathematics as
Speaker 1: a a undergrad subject, but he got a three point
Speaker 1: nine eight, decided he wanted to become a doctor. The
Speaker 1: Navy sent him to Harvard because he got in become
Speaker 1: became a medical Harvard medical educated doctor, served as a
Speaker 1: doctor for a few years, and said why not all
Speaker 1: apply for NASA at an eighteen thousand applicants. Uh. He
Speaker 1: was one of twelve selected and he did this all
Speaker 1: steal medic silver star. Uh. You know, Harvard educated doctor
Speaker 1: and NASA NASA astronaut, all by the age of thirty four.
Speaker 1: And I'm the guy who thought I knew what town
Speaker 1: looks like. That was wild. The name is Dr Him
Speaker 1: and he's one of the most amazing human beings you'll
Speaker 1: ever meet. But I out of tend people would have
Speaker 1: glanced right past him because he was just, you know,
Speaker 1: at the time, a scrawny Asian kid Korean American from
Speaker 1: from l Yeah. I saw a story on him in
Speaker 1: Military Times not too long ago, because they talked about
Speaker 1: the same thing. And we're gonna get into culture fit
Speaker 1: in just a minute, but real quick, I have to
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Speaker 1: Com slash SOFTWAREP to learn more. Okay, we're talking with
Speaker 1: Mike Sarelli. Excuse me for reading that for a second,
Speaker 1: but uh, to make sure we take care of our folks,
Speaker 1: to take care of us. So, Mike, when you talked
Speaker 1: about culture fit, you know, and you read wrote about
Speaker 1: this in the book, it immediately struck something in my mind.
Speaker 1: And you talk in the book about sports teams. One
Speaker 1: and of the jobs I've had that I've covered the NFL,
Speaker 1: which is a big passion of mine, and I sat
Speaker 1: in on an interview with Bill Belichick from the New
Speaker 1: England Patriots that won six Super Bowls in the last
Speaker 1: two decades and they're probably one of the most successful
Speaker 1: teams ever really, And it's fascinating talking to him because
Speaker 1: and you talk about this in the book. They said,
Speaker 1: what's the toughest part of coaching modern day athletes? And
Speaker 1: he said, getting them to buy into a team first mentality.
Speaker 1: He said, you would think, you know, everyone talks about
Speaker 1: team this and team that, but getting fifty three individuals
Speaker 1: to completely buy in to being selfless, but putting the
Speaker 1: team ahead of their own personal success, maybe individual success
Speaker 1: for the you know, for the betterment of the team,
Speaker 1: is the toughest part of coaching. And I think you
Speaker 1: hit the nail on the head right there when in
Speaker 1: your book and you talked about, you know, the culture fit.
Speaker 1: It's not so much um, like you said, likability, but
Speaker 1: it's putting the team first. And that's a big thing
Speaker 1: with special operators. We always put the team ahead of
Speaker 1: everyone else. Yeah, and that stuff for any humans do.
Speaker 1: Let's be honest here, the men and women in special
Speaker 1: operations and against the audience, there are women in special
Speaker 1: operations that hold in multitude of functions and roles um
Speaker 1: and their screen just just as heavily as our our
Speaker 1: our special operators. But these are a type personalities with
Speaker 1: their own agendas, their own ideas. Um, And that's okay.
Speaker 1: We we encourage, yet we we want people to to
Speaker 1: to challenge the way we approach problem steps. We want
Speaker 1: them to challenge the way we think. We almost demand
Speaker 1: a I call it a healthy disrespect for authority with
Speaker 1: our own culture. Um, the way I coined it. If
Speaker 1: we want people to push back and think outside the box.
Speaker 1: But um, at the end of the day, even though
Speaker 1: you have your own egos and egos in your own agendas,
Speaker 1: if you don't have the ability to put your needs
Speaker 1: as secondary to the overall organization, uh, then then you're
Speaker 1: not gonna be in that community for very long. And
Speaker 1: you're not a team player. But here's the thing too,
Speaker 1: You've got to explain it to a young twenty three
Speaker 1: year old uh you know, uh feel or Green Beret
Speaker 1: or Mars operator. Here's why you want to put the
Speaker 1: team first because if the team wins, that ultimately comes
Speaker 1: back to benefit benefit you in the long term to
Speaker 1: a greater extent. And a lot of people in the
Speaker 1: business world to understand that. You know, Hey, I'm the
Speaker 1: top sales person for this organization. I made the most revenue,
Speaker 1: which means I made the most commissions. But as a whole.
Speaker 1: The organization is not needing its metrics and it's it's
Speaker 1: getting decimated by its competition. Does that number one salesperson
Speaker 1: in a underperforming organization? Does that title William matter? But
Speaker 1: if I'm not top sales person, I say, hey, you
Speaker 1: know what, I've got some best practices that I can
Speaker 1: share with these other sales people. Because if I can
Speaker 1: bring all the other sales people in this organization up
Speaker 1: to my level, well guess what, We'll start to dominate
Speaker 1: our competition. We'll start to dominate our respect as industry
Speaker 1: and market space. And you just don't see a whole
Speaker 1: lot of that in the business world. No, And I've
Speaker 1: run into that, like I told you myself. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's eye opening when after you've spent most of
Speaker 1: your you know, adult life in the military, and then
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to say we're institutionalized, but
Speaker 1: we we get a little institutionalized when it comes to
Speaker 1: the way we're used to seeing things done and the
Speaker 1: way we treat the leadership and we foster it, and
Speaker 1: that there's really not a lot of that. There's not
Speaker 1: enough of it, I should say, in the civilian world.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's totally absent, but it's definitely lacking
Speaker 1: in a lot of places, and um, you know it's
Speaker 1: it's it's very interesting because they again I go back,
Speaker 1: I think it was around page in your book you
Speaker 1: talk about the higher industry experience over character and that's
Speaker 1: just one of those things that you know, we look
Speaker 1: at in special operations. You talk about susment in selection.
Speaker 1: We do this all the time, and a lot of
Speaker 1: people are under this misconception. Once you pass, you know
Speaker 1: your assessment and selection, you get to go, you're being
Speaker 1: assessed for the rest of your career. It's just as
Speaker 1: you pass you talk about in the book, as you
Speaker 1: pass one gate, another gate opens and you're expected to
Speaker 1: do more and more and more, and with that comes
Speaker 1: to more responsibility. And that's something that I think could
Speaker 1: definitely carry over more to the civilian community. So you interesting,
Speaker 1: and Steve, if you look back and try to stand
Speaker 1: why you use that word institutionalized, I think you probably
Speaker 1: agree with me that because that's how we're described by
Speaker 1: the private sector, like, well, these veterans are institutionalized it
Speaker 1: and maybe we are in in the context of that word.
Speaker 1: But when you're institutionalized in values like selflessness, drive, resiliency, adaptability,
Speaker 1: emotional strength, team ability. Is that really institutionalized or is
Speaker 1: that the right way of doing things? That's the absolute
Speaker 1: right way. And one of the things that you talked
Speaker 1: about it in your book, And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people, especially in the civilian community, are under some
Speaker 1: misconceptions when it comes to special operators. You talk about
Speaker 1: how the Navy seals realized that, I mean we all,
Speaker 1: I mean we didn't get to where we were in
Speaker 1: the military without having an e go. Because when you
Speaker 1: say to yourself, I want to be one of the
Speaker 1: best of the best, and I mean that takes a
Speaker 1: little bit of ego and we all have that and
Speaker 1: you talk you just mentioned that a minute ago. I mean,
Speaker 1: but at the same time that humility steps in because
Speaker 1: even though you're very confident in your own ability, you
Speaker 1: have to understand one, there's always room, you can always
Speaker 1: get better. There's gonna be other people that are gonna
Speaker 1: be strong in other areas. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people think, oh, well, he's a Navy Seal, he's a
Speaker 1: Green Beret, he's gonna be you know, this arrogant person
Speaker 1: that nobody can talk to in the room, and that's
Speaker 1: the exact opposite of what makes us what we are,
Speaker 1: you know. So I've had this conversation with Jocko and
Speaker 1: and actually another guy named Rich to Benny, who uh
Speaker 1: I starved with at Naval Special War for the development group.
Speaker 1: He ran assessment in selection and sort of you made
Speaker 1: some sweeting changes to how they about that as well.
Speaker 1: He's got a book called The Attributes twenty five Hidden
Speaker 1: Drivers to Optimal Performance, which comes out in January. And so,
Speaker 1: you know, ego, we actually like to say it's pride.
Speaker 1: So pride can drive you to do amazing things. If
Speaker 1: your pride gets out of balance, it develops into ego,
Speaker 1: and ego can be your downfall. But what Rich Divinni
Speaker 1: also talks about it, and he's he studied high performers,
Speaker 1: is there is a bit of narcissism in all high performers.
Speaker 1: There is a bit of narcissism. And as he was
Speaker 1: explaining this to me, I'm like that that makes total sense.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean they're off the chart, off the charts narcissists, no,
Speaker 1: but they are driven to the point of where they're
Speaker 1: going to drive results and nothing's gonna stop them. And
Speaker 1: as he's explained. It totally makes sense. There there is
Speaker 1: a bit of narcissism in all high performers that drives
Speaker 1: them to to accomplish create things. But yeah, definitely pride
Speaker 1: with in the Special Operations communities what drives us to
Speaker 1: to continually elevate the bar. But we've you, you and
Speaker 1: I have seen seen it, uh Steve, where that pride
Speaker 1: can turn into ego, which can turn into complacency. And
Speaker 1: we've seen you know, we we hate. We're not saying
Speaker 1: that Special Operations is immune to underperformers. We're not saying
Speaker 1: that we've seen certain units, certain oh bias or c
Speaker 1: oble tunes that have bad leadership, that develop ego, become complacency.
Speaker 1: And guess what, we've made a mistake of deploying the obracies.
Speaker 1: And it's those units that actually do bad things, sometimes
Speaker 1: do unethical things, that make the front page. Because when
Speaker 1: Special Operations does something not ethical, you can guarantee it's
Speaker 1: on the cover of Wall Street Journal or USA to Day.
Speaker 1: UM's absolutely, but um, we we've seen our our share
Speaker 1: of bad leaders in the Special Operations community. Um. But
Speaker 1: we learned from it, and that's actually the feedback loop
Speaker 1: we talked about in the book. It's when somebody made
Speaker 1: it through our very long two year assessment and selection
Speaker 1: process and goes on to take a leadership build in
Speaker 1: Special Operations and then does something unethical. We as communities
Speaker 1: come together and say, what did we miss in assessing
Speaker 1: and selecting that into the dual of our community, and
Speaker 1: how do we change the process. So we never let
Speaker 1: somebody like that in again? Or was it they served
Speaker 1: under some very bad mentors within the Special Operations community
Speaker 1: that led them to believe a certain behavior was acceptable.
Speaker 1: But we have those competitions. Businesses don't do that most
Speaker 1: of Yeah, I'm sorry I kept interrupting you. I was
Speaker 1: just gonna say, I remember my first team sergeant and
Speaker 1: s F. Who's the guy I looked up to, Especially
Speaker 1: when you're a young guy, you're just fresh out of
Speaker 1: you know, the Q course, and you look to your team.
Speaker 1: So and that's your mentor, he's your coach, he's your trainer,
Speaker 1: he's the guy that's gonna as he used to say,
Speaker 1: I'm going to train you to do my job, because
Speaker 1: that's my job is to make you. You know, the
Speaker 1: eventual team started, he used to say. And one of
Speaker 1: the things that it's stuck with me. And I think
Speaker 1: you mentioned it in your book. There's not bad teams,
Speaker 1: there's bad leaders because when a team fails, it starts
Speaker 1: at the top with the leadership. And I think that,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that strikes home pent of the time.
Speaker 1: And we're not immune. Like you said, we're not immune
Speaker 1: to it. I mean we're not perfect either. Our sex
Speaker 1: excuse me, assessment and selection guys have slipped through that
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't have been on the teams. We're not perfect,
Speaker 1: but I think we do it a lot better than
Speaker 1: everyone else's. Yeah, hey, did I I coverment community, which
Speaker 1: in the last year of the Seal Community, we've we've
Speaker 1: had a lot of front page moments and you know,
Speaker 1: attachment to the camaraderie between the different special operations communities.
Speaker 1: My green bread buddies will call me to be like, hey,
Speaker 1: you got that are really representing well right now? I'm like,
Speaker 1: I know, um, But the second something you identify a
Speaker 1: bad behavior in your organization, you've gotta get it out.
Speaker 1: And we're pretty good about that, um. And again you've
Speaker 1: got to learn from it. A lot of businesses, as
Speaker 1: I was saying, when they have a bad higher, They're like, oh,
Speaker 1: it was just a bad higher, and they move on
Speaker 1: and start the process over again without thinking about what
Speaker 1: led to that moment and how they could potentially avoid
Speaker 1: those those behaviors or or or select a candidate that
Speaker 1: that representative values that they really aligned. And I want
Speaker 1: to come back to culture fit. The good definition of
Speaker 1: culture for companies moving forward is do this candidates values
Speaker 1: aligned with our organization. That's what culture fit is. Do
Speaker 1: they have the same values? Now, their personality may be different.
Speaker 1: They may be sort of a grumpy character. And again
Speaker 1: going back to Richard any and they see all I
Speaker 1: served with with the book coming out, he talks about authenticity.
Speaker 1: I would rather have somebody whose values aligned with me.
Speaker 1: But maybe they're just a grumpy character. But if they're
Speaker 1: grumpy all the time, then they're actually being authentic, which
Speaker 1: means I can trust that person. They're genuine um And
Speaker 1: a lot of companies look for again, that big personality
Speaker 1: that everyone likes and everyone wants to have a beer with.
Speaker 1: But you and I have seen those personalities in the
Speaker 1: special operations communities that make it through the process, and
Speaker 1: it's usually there's loud guys that are nowhere to be
Speaker 1: seen when the work requires rolling up the sleeves, they're
Speaker 1: off smoozing somebody else and running them off. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've all seen those guys. And you know they we
Speaker 1: scalled politicians and sf because you get somewhere and they
Speaker 1: were off, you know, trying to build rapport with somebody
Speaker 1: while everyone else is doing the work. But you know,
Speaker 1: exactly again, we're not perfect. I mean we've let guys
Speaker 1: in that probably shouldn't have been. You know, I'm sure
Speaker 1: somebody out there is saying, yeah, Steve, you're one of them.
Speaker 1: But uh, you know, it's just you know, what's the
Speaker 1: way it is. But you know, one of the things
Speaker 1: you talked about, and again I'm bouncing around your book
Speaker 1: because I have all these notes scribbled the special operations
Speaker 1: truths that we all know and how it relates to
Speaker 1: the business truths. Number one is always the butt. The
Speaker 1: best humans are more important in hardware, and again you
Speaker 1: talked about that in your book. Human capital is the
Speaker 1: most critical resource qualities better than quantity. I think that
Speaker 1: speaks for itself. I mean a lot of these companies
Speaker 1: try to hire, as you said, just to fill a seat,
Speaker 1: and they're not worried about you know, are they getting
Speaker 1: the right people? Special operations forces can't be masked for dudes.
Speaker 1: I think we both know that is. It's never been
Speaker 1: you know, it's never been an easy process. And you
Speaker 1: just can't say. You know, we ran into this in
Speaker 1: the in the late eighties. Uh, you know, when they
Speaker 1: were trying to build up the Special Operations Command. The
Speaker 1: people from the Pentagon said we need this many guys
Speaker 1: this year. Well that's not gonna work because the standards
Speaker 1: are saying the same. You know. It's like, if we
Speaker 1: get that many guys in that are meeting the standards
Speaker 1: by all means, they're gonna be green berets. But if
Speaker 1: they don't, if we're only getting of that, then guess what,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna be short. But that's the way it is,
Speaker 1: and you can't create uh, you know, competent operational s
Speaker 1: s o F guys after emergencies occur. It has to
Speaker 1: be a long drawn up you as you said, a
Speaker 1: two year process just to get your foot in the door.
Speaker 1: And you know, we talked about I think you mentioned earlier. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a world class talent pool, but
Speaker 1: it's shrinking every year. It's getting harder and harder to
Speaker 1: find those kind of guys. And the last one, most
Speaker 1: special operations forces required non s of assistance, and you know,
Speaker 1: you talk about that in the book. We have some
Speaker 1: of the best logistics and support personnel that support s
Speaker 1: of operations, and those people are assessed and selected for
Speaker 1: their own, you know, jobs that they'll have. They might
Speaker 1: not be operators, but they're just as important as us
Speaker 1: to make sure that we were able to go out
Speaker 1: and do our job. And again, in the business world,
Speaker 1: it's the same thing. They have to have all departments
Speaker 1: pulling in the same way. I think that this is like, uh,
Speaker 1: this is in a nutshell, and I don't think enough
Speaker 1: companies do this. Excuse me. Yeah, you know the funny
Speaker 1: one about if you look at all of those for
Speaker 1: a business leader listening, there's there's five special operations. Truths
Speaker 1: are the foundation of special operations, and each one of
Speaker 1: the five talked about how important people are. It's not
Speaker 1: your technology, it's not your systems, it's your people. Technology
Speaker 1: doesn't commercialize itself. People do. Technology doesn't sell itself. People do.
Speaker 1: And that's why you're yeah, the quality is better than quantity. Hey, dude,
Speaker 1: no one summed this up better than a guy named
Speaker 1: Colonel Charlotte Beckwith, who was a Vietnam veteran um a
Speaker 1: very big personality. He drove the creation of what today
Speaker 1: is is the army component of Jay Sock. And he said,
Speaker 1: I would rather go down the river with seven studs
Speaker 1: then heads, And that's stuff that up. If you've got
Speaker 1: a leader like this, he was very disruptive in a
Speaker 1: pioneer within his respective area, say I'd rather go with
Speaker 1: a handful of absolute high performers then take a hundred
Speaker 1: people with me. That said something, especially into a scenario
Speaker 1: where your life is on the line. And that's why
Speaker 1: those few dozen oders of green Berets went against a
Speaker 1: much larger force and came out on top. They had
Speaker 1: higher character, they had all the attributes that the Taliban
Speaker 1: and al Qaeda black. That's uh, it sums it up
Speaker 1: in a nutshell. What's the same thing you guys went
Speaker 1: through in Ramadi? And you know in part of your
Speaker 1: book you talk about preparing for war, which business. It's
Speaker 1: war without people getting killed. But it's the same thing.
Speaker 1: And you know you hire for character, you're trained for skill,
Speaker 1: and you know it comes down to that. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of companies. Again you talk about they don't
Speaker 1: have the right people in HR, they don't have the
Speaker 1: right I guess mindset of what they're actually trying to find,
Speaker 1: you know, for these companies. And again it comes down
Speaker 1: to like the s o F people, the special operations community,
Speaker 1: you know, we have the kind of I think, and
Speaker 1: you talked about it in the book generalists who have
Speaker 1: all this experience all over the world, you know, and
Speaker 1: they're looking for a guy with a little niche in
Speaker 1: the private sector where they're over specialized. And I think
Speaker 1: this is a big thing that where you know, special
Speaker 1: ops guys are hands down a better higher than some
Speaker 1: of these, uh guys who didn't have that kind of background.
Speaker 1: Brian Jecker and I have talked about this at length.
Speaker 1: Is there seems to be an over specialization within the
Speaker 1: market space. If you're hiring for a very select role
Speaker 1: for some that has to be a coder. Yes they
Speaker 1: have to, they have to have that competency. But when
Speaker 1: you look at your management leadership, actually generalists are more equipped.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is what David Epstein wrote about in
Speaker 1: the book range Why generalist triumph in a specialized world?
Speaker 1: And the reason that I chose to make an executive
Speaker 1: search from only sourced military leaders, and that's who we
Speaker 1: put in front of companies is because they're the ultimate
Speaker 1: definition of generalists. If you look at an Army green beret, one,
Speaker 1: they've been through the most rigorous selection process that that
Speaker 1: no business can replicate. Then they were sent to Iraq,
Speaker 1: a very specific culture with a very unique set of challenges.
Speaker 1: And on the next appointment, they were in Afghanistan the
Speaker 1: same thing, a very unique culture with a very unique
Speaker 1: set of challenges. And then after that they went to
Speaker 1: Somalia and the same thing. And they've been placed in
Speaker 1: all these different scenarios. And when that green beret chooses
Speaker 1: to get out after ten years one, they probably already
Speaker 1: have a graduate degree, I'm sorry, undergrad degree if they
Speaker 1: were enlisted, possibly a master's. And you're talking to somebody
Speaker 1: that faced so many different problems as in so many
Speaker 1: different scenarios under the most extreme pressure, and now they
Speaker 1: have one of the widest experience spaces in the world
Speaker 1: for which you can throw any challenge at them, and
Speaker 1: they are more equipped than a specialist to solve an
Speaker 1: array of problems. COVID again is a perfect example for
Speaker 1: which you know, military members have proved proven for the
Speaker 1: most part, unflappable during these last six to eight months.
Speaker 1: They're like, yep, this this, this like totally hails in
Speaker 1: comparison to anything, uh that we saw during the Jordan
Speaker 1: global warring terror were good almost like wipe the dust
Speaker 1: off their shoulder and says business as usual. We'll we'll
Speaker 1: find a way to maneuver within this environment. Um. And
Speaker 1: a lot of companies we do the leadership consulting side,
Speaker 1: when they ran into COVID, their workforces lacked the character
Speaker 1: to to to thrive in a BUCA environment. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: and a lot of that is adaptability, and you talk
Speaker 1: about that in the book. I mean the one thing
Speaker 1: that you know special operators can do is adapt to
Speaker 1: any of you talk about that. You know, any environment,
Speaker 1: uh if it's Afghanistan, Iraq, you know, Somalia, all very different.
Speaker 1: But you know, our guys can adapt to that. And
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the people that are out
Speaker 1: there in the civilian workforce, they they're they're not they
Speaker 1: don't wire to adapt. I don't think you know, it's
Speaker 1: just um, you have to have that, you have to
Speaker 1: have that drive to succeed. But you also think, you know,
Speaker 1: the one thing that special operators do is we accept
Speaker 1: the fact that you're gonna throw something matus that we've
Speaker 1: probably never done before, but we're gonna find a way
Speaker 1: to get it done. And I think that's you know,
Speaker 1: when you're talking about adaptability, that's what I think what
Speaker 1: the SF community does absolute best. Yeah, And you know
Speaker 1: why is adaptability so important is because the business space,
Speaker 1: the private sector is defined as an ever changing environment.
Speaker 1: You know, the digital transformation has changed everything. Um, we're
Speaker 1: still very much in the midst of that that transformation.
Speaker 1: And when you hire somebody, why adaptability should always be
Speaker 1: a hiring requirement if you're asking yourself, Hey, I'm hiring
Speaker 1: this person for what I need now, but does this
Speaker 1: person have the curiosity and adaptability to be relevant to
Speaker 1: this organization into drive results ten years from now when
Speaker 1: the market space in our company look very different. And
Speaker 1: of all the interviews we did because this book also
Speaker 1: we interviewed a lot of what I call private sector
Speaker 1: warriors who are around within their space, particularly the HR space.
Speaker 1: Patty McCord, uh, you know, we we we we talked
Speaker 1: about patting record. We did an interviewer Tracy Kio, who's
Speaker 1: the second highest paid hr O in the world. She's
Speaker 1: the c r O Ulett Packard. The actual person that
Speaker 1: found made women to lead that organization is they all
Speaker 1: talked about they hired not only for what they need now,
Speaker 1: but for what they need ten years from now, and
Speaker 1: how that that curiosity they attribute to curiosity and adaptability
Speaker 1: are key in their decision making process. So uh, you
Speaker 1: know people that were not adaptable. Again, you go to
Speaker 1: COVID and a lot of organizations are no longer with
Speaker 1: us because they've lacked that organization create Okay, and you know, um,
Speaker 1: and again I'm bouncing around your book because I made
Speaker 1: so many notes here you talk about the you know,
Speaker 1: in the civilian world, the hiring process. One of the
Speaker 1: things that always, you know, irks me when I've done
Speaker 1: interviews is when they asked the question and you write
Speaker 1: about it in your book. And that's why I circled
Speaker 1: that because I was like, damn, this is like one
Speaker 1: of those things that grinds my gears when when hiring
Speaker 1: managers says why should we hire you? It's like you
Speaker 1: talk about in the book. That's one of the things
Speaker 1: I was like, isn't that the question I should be
Speaker 1: asking you. You should be at answering that yourself. It's like,
Speaker 1: I hate that question. And uh, you know it's no
Speaker 1: one knows, like you said, their own company like they do.
Speaker 1: It's not their job to know why you should hire
Speaker 1: them if that's your job, right, So, I don't know,
Speaker 1: It's just one of those things I'm bouncing around. I
Speaker 1: know I'm bouncing. I'm probably driving you crazy here. I'm
Speaker 1: bouncing all around your book. But you make so many
Speaker 1: good comments in here, and this is like great stuff.
Speaker 1: But um so tell me and tell our listeners how
Speaker 1: is the leadership going? I know you teach a lot
Speaker 1: of that. Our companies actually, uh are they being receptive
Speaker 1: to what you guys are teaching? Now? Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I've got to hit it to what Jocko Willington, Lafe
Speaker 1: Bat and the two co authors and Extreme Ownership have
Speaker 1: done one. You know, Jockoby the first to tell you
Speaker 1: that this is not proprietary information. Jocko and Wave are
Speaker 1: like avid readers and all they read is books about
Speaker 1: military leadership in war, and um they took it, took
Speaker 1: all these great nuggets from leaders like General Pattent and
Speaker 1: David Hackworth. And the list goes on, and they basically
Speaker 1: took military leadership and even the leadership manuals designed by
Speaker 1: the army in the military and basically package something in
Speaker 1: such a simplistic, easily digestible leadership system called Extreme Ownership
Speaker 1: in And so they've been working with companies since I
Speaker 1: want to say, like two thousand eleven. The book came
Speaker 1: out in two thousand fifteen. The amount of consulting engagements
Speaker 1: we have through the companies called Echelon front Um is
Speaker 1: hard to keep up with um. And the companies that
Speaker 1: take ownership over Extreme Ownership have seen their cultures change.
Speaker 1: And it's also it's a humility to, you know, for
Speaker 1: a lot of these business leaders who have built these
Speaker 1: amazing organizations who never went through the leadership development program
Speaker 1: some of us and say, hey, you know what, I
Speaker 1: don't think I actually anyone sort of formally taught me
Speaker 1: how to lead. And so because of that, I'm not
Speaker 1: like the best equipped to teach my people, uh in
Speaker 1: the correct forms of leadership. And so when a company
Speaker 1: owner or CEO says that it's just like the it's
Speaker 1: the driving fact with me, you know, this company is
Speaker 1: gonna buy in. And when the company is buying, getting
Speaker 1: in the cultures shift through a much more positive mindset
Speaker 1: to people working together as a team, communicating in a
Speaker 1: different way. And again the metrics in terms of dis
Speaker 1: business metrics from increased revenue, decreased safety incidents if there
Speaker 1: are in a blue caller environment, um, you know, higher
Speaker 1: profit margins, higher customer satisfaction, and equally is important high
Speaker 1: employee engagement. People are engaged, there's a growth mindset. The
Speaker 1: results have been phenomenal. Again, that company's echelon Front. You
Speaker 1: can go to echelon front dot com um in contact
Speaker 1: the director of operations there. But beyond the keynote, speaking
Speaker 1: in the workshops, the what they call the leadership development
Speaker 1: and alignment programs have have proven their work for a
Speaker 1: lot of organizations. All right, well, I've taken up a
Speaker 1: lot of your afternoon, and I know I've bounced all
Speaker 1: around your book probably and going in circles, but I
Speaker 1: really want to thank you for taking the time today.
Speaker 1: Is there anything else you'd like to talk about with
Speaker 1: your book? What your training seminars before we uh cut
Speaker 1: this off and we all go enjoy our Thanksgiving weekend. Absolutely?
Speaker 1: You know, well, the book, the talent where you can
Speaker 1: pick it up anywhere books are sold. Um. And we
Speaker 1: do have a company called e f overwatch dot com
Speaker 1: if you need help sourcing talent or if you need
Speaker 1: help creating it weren't world talent acquisition process. I've got
Speaker 1: a group of very uh season proven uh you know
Speaker 1: c h R O s and talent acquisition executives. But
Speaker 1: uh one. Steve always good to connect with former special
Speaker 1: operations leaders. You set the stage for my generation to
Speaker 1: come in and crush it, and hopefully we did the
Speaker 1: same for the next generation. I will tell you this, Steve,
Speaker 1: I spoke to about eighty marine and maybe option that
Speaker 1: shipman from the Ohio State University last week. We had
Speaker 1: to do it virtually, of course. And you know when
Speaker 1: I spoke with these young men and women about leadership, uh,
Speaker 1: in some of their questions, it hit me on like
Speaker 1: this generation is so much better than we were in
Speaker 1: the next generation is going to pick up the torch
Speaker 1: in all the line. Uh. And then to everyone, happy Thanksgiving,
Speaker 1: God bless America. Thanks for the opportunities. Steve. Absolutely it
Speaker 1: was a pleasure having you, and you know you you
Speaker 1: talked about Brian Decker a couple of times in your
Speaker 1: book and uh, you know, uh as a special operator,
Speaker 1: I worked at selection and assessment. And then you know,
Speaker 1: we talked offline how Brian came in and made a
Speaker 1: bunch of changes. And you know, at first, when you're
Speaker 1: you know, you when you're there at the outset, and
Speaker 1: we talked about that. You know, that's kind of like
Speaker 1: your baby. You don't like hearing anyone changing anything. Then
Speaker 1: after talking with Brian and how we changed the selection
Speaker 1: and assessment course, how much better it is now. And
Speaker 1: you know, at the time we didn't realize we were
Speaker 1: we were teaching them to maybe uh be successful in
Speaker 1: a certain exercise rather than assessing their character. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, when it comes to assessment and selection, your generation,
Speaker 1: it's light years ahead of where ours was. And as
Speaker 1: you said, these next group of people, they're gonna make
Speaker 1: us all proud of what they can do, you know,
Speaker 1: in the special operations and in our in economy. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I know a lot of people are kind
Speaker 1: of jaded about the way the direction our country is heading.
Speaker 1: I think it's it's still we still have a lot
Speaker 1: to look forward to. I could not agree more that
Speaker 1: that's just emotions with with this last election. Uh, no
Speaker 1: one leader is going to take this country in a
Speaker 1: drastically different direction that people wouldn't allow it. We're we're
Speaker 1: we're in good hands, I agree with all right. Hey,
Speaker 1: thanks again for taking the time today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: And folks, make sure you read the book The Talent War.
Speaker 1: This is fantastic stuff, especially for some of our veterans
Speaker 1: who are maybe active duty soldiers and sailors, Marines, airmen
Speaker 1: who are getting ready to get out. I mean, this
Speaker 1: will definitely help you along because I think this is
Speaker 1: the direction our our business leaders need to take. It's
Speaker 1: all about people, It's all about leadership, and I think
Speaker 1: Special Ops leads the way on that. Mike, thanks again
Speaker 1: for joining us. We really appreciate it. Have you ever
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