Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. Since this Saturday Classic is coming out during Hanukkah,
Speaker 1: we thought we would rerelease our December one episode on
Speaker 1: the Maccabean Revolt, which is the historical event associated with
Speaker 1: the Jewish holiday of Hanakah. While hanaka isn't one of
Speaker 1: the primary Jewish holidays from a religious perspective, it has
Speaker 1: become culturally important in a lot of Jewish communities and
Speaker 1: families around the world. So if you are observing Hanakah
Speaker 1: this week, Happy Hanukah from us to you. Our thoughts
Speaker 1: are especially with you if you're having to do so
Speaker 1: at a distance from the people that you love and miss.
Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you missed in History Class A production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Tracy D. Wilson and I'm Holly fry. So we've
Speaker 1: got a lot of requests over the years to talk
Speaker 1: about the Maccabean Revolt. We've also had a lot of
Speaker 1: good intentions over the last few years to talk about it.
Speaker 1: It's the historical event that's connected to the Jewish holiday
Speaker 1: of Hanakah, and two things have thwarted our plans to
Speaker 1: talk about this repeatedly. And the first is that since
Speaker 1: Hanakah falls on the Jewish calendar, which doesn't sync up
Speaker 1: with the Gregorian calendar. Uh. I kept being surprised by
Speaker 1: the fact that Hanka was imminent every year or or
Speaker 1: head started. That's always mine already, yeah I um. And
Speaker 1: also because this historical event is in a piece of
Speaker 1: ancient history that doesn't get as much coverage in a
Speaker 1: lot of classrooms. When I would be surprised by the
Speaker 1: eminent arrival of Hanakah, I would also realize I just
Speaker 1: did not have enough foundational knowledge to be able to
Speaker 1: put an episode together in that period of time, because
Speaker 1: it's this is after Alexander the Great and before Rome,
Speaker 1: so it's in the it's in the Hellenistic period. So
Speaker 1: that is just one of the places that I have
Speaker 1: not had a whole whole bunch of history education. UM.
Speaker 1: My ancient history education kind of went Mesopotamia, Ancient Egypt,
Speaker 1: Classical Greece, Rome, and skipped the Hellenistic period almost entirely. Uh.
Speaker 1: This year, however, I had my act together ahead of time, Tracy,
Speaker 1: so we finally have our episode on the Macabean revolt. Uh.
Speaker 1: I will say that every Hanaka observance I have ever
Speaker 1: been to is just full of warmth and love and
Speaker 1: comfort and light, and it's it all feels very beautiful
Speaker 1: and friendly. And this history is not really that. So
Speaker 1: if you're coming into this episode expecting like a story
Speaker 1: of warmth and love and triumph, this is not really
Speaker 1: going to be that. And then also having heard multiple
Speaker 1: experts pronounce a lot of the names in this episode
Speaker 1: completely differently from one another, I'm just gonna have a
Speaker 1: blanket apology in advance. I'm sorry if we land on
Speaker 1: the one that's either not how you say it or
Speaker 1: is just not right. I really did have just contradictory
Speaker 1: responses and how to say a lot of these words
Speaker 1: and names. Alexander the Third of Macedon, also known as
Speaker 1: Alexander the Great, famously built a massive empire through a
Speaker 1: series of conquests, including conquering the Persian Empire in the
Speaker 1: fourth century b c. And at its height, this empire
Speaker 1: included a huge swath of territory around the Mediterranean energy
Speaker 1: and seas, and then it stretched west across what's now Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan,
Speaker 1: and Pakistan. Greek culture also spread through and influenced Alexander's
Speaker 1: territory to varying degrees. Even before Alexander's death in early
Speaker 1: June of three BC, this massive empire was starting to fracture,
Speaker 1: and after he died, his generals divided it up among themselves.
Speaker 1: Of the two most relevant to what we're talking about today,
Speaker 1: both controlled territory along the eastern part of the Mediterranean Sea.
Speaker 1: These were the Seleucid Empire, named for Seleucis Nicotour, to
Speaker 1: the north, and the Ptolemaic Kingdom, named for Ptolemy first Soto,
Speaker 1: to the south. At first, the Seleucid Empire controlled what
Speaker 1: is now Israel, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan's and from there
Speaker 1: this territory stretched east to Central Asia. In the Ptolemaic
Speaker 1: Kingdom primarily controlled what's now northern Egypt, including the city
Speaker 1: of Alexandria. Even though the Ptolemaic Kingdom was initially much smaller,
Speaker 1: it was also one of the most prosperous and influential
Speaker 1: of all of the Hellenistic kingdoms, with Alexandria becoming one
Speaker 1: of the most important cities. Perhaps unsurprisingly, these two neighbors
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time at war with each other
Speaker 1: over territory, including who would control Syria and the Levant
Speaker 1: in the eastern Mediterranean. This ongoing struggle played out in
Speaker 1: fight of a number of diplomatic and family connections that
Speaker 1: existed between the Ptolemys and the Seleucids, and the fact
Speaker 1: that both Ptolemy and Seleucists themselves had teamed up together
Speaker 1: against rival h and Antigonus the first just after Alexander's death.
Speaker 1: During many of these wars, Judea, which is the area
Speaker 1: between the Mediterranean Sea on one side and the Dead
Speaker 1: Sea on the other, was caught in the crossfire, and
Speaker 1: it was passed back and forth between the Ptolemy's and
Speaker 1: the Seleucids as the territory changed hands. The city of Jerusalem,
Speaker 1: which is important some multiple religions, including Judaism, Christianity, and Islam,
Speaker 1: is also located in Judea, although at the time we're
Speaker 1: discussing today, Christianity and Islam both had not yet been founded.
Speaker 1: Jerusalem had been home to Solomon's Temple, also known as
Speaker 1: the First Temple, which was destroyed in five eighties seven
Speaker 1: b c e. And at the time that this story
Speaker 1: takes place, it was home to the Second Temple, built
Speaker 1: in roughly five twenty See these temples are of enormous religious, spiritual,
Speaker 1: and social importance in Judaism. During the Fifth Syrian War,
Speaker 1: which spanned from two o two to one, the Seleucids
Speaker 1: soundly defeated the Ptolemy's at the Battle of Panias or Banias,
Speaker 1: also known as the Battle of Panneum and The details
Speaker 1: of the battle itself are mostly lost to time, but
Speaker 1: we do know that following this defeat, the Ptolemy's lost
Speaker 1: most of their territory in the Lavant, including Judea. At first,
Speaker 1: the region's Jewish population continued to live mostly as they
Speaker 1: had been. Many of the Ptolemaic leaders who had controlled
Speaker 1: Judea had been relatively tolerant of religious diversity. There was
Speaker 1: definitely a social hierarchy at play, with the Greeks having
Speaker 1: higher social and economic status than everyone else, but for
Speaker 1: the most part, throughout the Ptolemaic kingdom, people were allowed
Speaker 1: religious freedom and expression. For example, under Ptolemaic rule, native
Speaker 1: Egyptian religious treaty sans continued to be upheld, and newly
Speaker 1: built Greek temples and other religious sites often drew inspiration
Speaker 1: from Egyptian deities. The city of Alexandria in the Ptolemaic
Speaker 1: kingdom also had a sizeable Jewish population, and it was
Speaker 1: in Alexandria that the Torah was translated into Greek for
Speaker 1: the first time. The degree to which Jews and Alexandria
Speaker 1: and elsewhere in Ptolemaic territories spoke Greek and adopted Greek
Speaker 1: customs really really varied from community to community, in person
Speaker 1: to person. There were, of course, a lot of different
Speaker 1: schools of thought about how much assimilation with Greek culture
Speaker 1: was acceptable. Some Jewish religious religious leaders advocated for a
Speaker 1: total rejection of all things Greek, while others thought that
Speaker 1: some degree of assimilation was fine as long as certain
Speaker 1: Jewish laws and customs were still upheld. Later on, Jewish
Speaker 1: religious texts written during this period would be viewed with
Speaker 1: some suspicion because of this Greek influence. So that was
Speaker 1: before the Fifth Syrian War and the Battle of Pennius.
Speaker 1: After Judea became part of the Seleucid Empire, at first
Speaker 1: things stayed more or less the same. Seleucid rule continued
Speaker 1: to allow free observance of the Jewish religion. Antiochus the Third,
Speaker 1: also known as Antiochus the Great, then ruler of the
Speaker 1: Seleucid Empire helped rebuild parts of Jerusalem that had been
Speaker 1: damaged or destroyed in the war. He suspended taxes in
Speaker 1: Jerusalem for three years and banned the import of animals
Speaker 1: that were unfit for consumption under Jewish law into Jerusalem.
Speaker 1: He also allowed the Jewish population of Jerusalem to govern
Speaker 1: itself according to Jewish law. However, all that changed radically
Speaker 1: after the death of Antiocus the Third. He was succeeded
Speaker 1: by his son Selucius the Fourth, who was then assassinated
Speaker 1: by one of his ministers who tried to take the
Speaker 1: throne for himself, and ti Akus the Fourth Epiphanies, another
Speaker 1: of Antiocas the third sons, managed to take control of
Speaker 1: the Seleucid Empire in one s b c. And his
Speaker 1: ideas on religious freedom were completely different than anti Acas
Speaker 1: the Thirds had been completely different than the Ptolemy's had been. Basically,
Speaker 1: it was a huge shift from what had been going
Speaker 1: on in Judea over the hundreds of years and many
Speaker 1: not hundreds, but over the many decades and wars that
Speaker 1: had seen it passed back and forth between different ruling
Speaker 1: empires over time. We are going to talk about exactly
Speaker 1: how after a quick word from a sponsor, Antiocas the
Speaker 1: fourth wanted to restore the Seleucid Empire to its former grandeur,
Speaker 1: and to that end, he started actively promoting and even
Speaker 1: requiring explicitly Greek customs, language, and ideals. All the people
Speaker 1: in his empire s be one people, and their culture
Speaker 1: should be Greek. Monotheistic religions, including Judaism, were expected to
Speaker 1: abandon their own customs and practices and instead begin worshiping
Speaker 1: the Greek Pantheon of Gods. The high priest at the
Speaker 1: Jewish Temple had been resisting Greek influence, so Antiochus replaced
Speaker 1: him with his brother, that's the priest brother, not Antiochus's brother,
Speaker 1: with his brother Jason. Jason had hellenized his own name
Speaker 1: from Hebrew, and he built a Greek style gymnasium adjacent
Speaker 1: to the temple. A gymnasium in Greece was a gathering
Speaker 1: place and a training facility for athletes, and it was
Speaker 1: also an emblem of Greek culture, and men who used
Speaker 1: the gymnasium did so naked. This is a problem because nudity,
Speaker 1: especially public nudity, was against Jewish law, so building this
Speaker 1: gymnasium near the temple was not only a reminder of
Speaker 1: Greek supremacy, but also something that was abhorrent in the
Speaker 1: eyes of many of the people who were going to
Speaker 1: the temple for both social and religious reasons. Jason was
Speaker 1: later replaced by Menelaois, also a Hellenizer, who continued to
Speaker 1: promote Greek ideas and customs among the Jewish population. In
Speaker 1: one sixty eight b c. Antiochus was away fighting the
Speaker 1: sixth Syrian War in Egypt, and rumors started to spread
Speaker 1: that he had been killed. This prompted some of Jerusalem's
Speaker 1: more traditional Jewish population to rebel against Menelaois, who fled
Speaker 1: the city. When Antiochus returned to Jerusalem and learned what
Speaker 1: had happened, he was outraged and ordered his army to
Speaker 1: attack the Jewish population. Thousands were killed or enslaved. Antiochus
Speaker 1: then issued a decree outlawing Judaism. He specifically forbade Jewish
Speaker 1: religious observances and customs. He outlawed Jewish modes of worship
Speaker 1: and observances of the Sabbath and Jewish festivals, and he
Speaker 1: also outlawed the practice of circumcision. The decree also required
Speaker 1: Jews to sacrifice pigs to Greek idols, and the Second
Speaker 1: Temple was rededicated to the Greek god Zeus. Failure to
Speaker 1: obey all of this was punishable by death, and many Jews,
Speaker 1: possibly thousands of them, were martyred as a result. Although
Speaker 1: this decree stood in direct opposition to Jewish law, a
Speaker 1: portion of the Jewish community did follow it. Many but
Speaker 1: not all, certainly did so under extreme darrests, but people
Speaker 1: who had not considered Hellenization to be bad or threatening
Speaker 1: often followed the law willingly. This meant that soon the
Speaker 1: most traditionalist parts of the Jewish population were at odds
Speaker 1: both with the Seleucids and with Hellenistic Jews who willingly
Speaker 1: followed the law. And Tiakas's decree was not just directed
Speaker 1: at the city of Jerusalem. It also applied to all
Speaker 1: of Salucid territory, and he sent armed officers from town
Speaker 1: to town to enforce it. This included This included demanding
Speaker 1: that priests publicly make sacrific isis to Greek idols or
Speaker 1: consumed pork, under penalty of death if they refused. During
Speaker 1: this time, a Jewish priestly family led by Patriarch met
Speaker 1: at Yahoo or Matthias or Matthias, depending on how you
Speaker 1: pronounce it, was living in moda Een, west of Jerusalem.
Speaker 1: When Antia kisses men came to moda Een to demand
Speaker 1: sacrifices to Greek gods, Matthias refused. As recorded in First
Speaker 1: Maccabee's he said, even if all the nations that live
Speaker 1: under the rule of the king obey him and have
Speaker 1: chosen to do his commandments, departing each one from the
Speaker 1: religion of his father's, yet I and my sons and
Speaker 1: my brothers will live by the covenant of our fathers.
Speaker 1: We will not obey the King's word by turning aside
Speaker 1: from our religion to the right hand or to the left. Then,
Speaker 1: when when a Hellenistic Jew approached this Greek altar to
Speaker 1: make a sacrifice as ordered, Matthias grabbed an officer officer's
Speaker 1: sword and killed him, before then killing the officer. And
Speaker 1: then he rallied the people who had witnessed this to
Speaker 1: join him in a rebellion against the Seleucid Empire. Although
Speaker 1: some of the traditionalist Jews in the Seleucid Empire had
Speaker 1: already been resisting Antiochus's decree non violently Matthias and his
Speaker 1: five sons started a campaign of guerrilla warfare. They recruited
Speaker 1: others and based their operations in hills and caves, eating
Speaker 1: plants they could scavenge to avoid the need to eat
Speaker 1: food that wasn't kosher. This revolt was the first war
Speaker 1: for religious freedom in the West and possibly in the world.
Speaker 1: Matthias was already quite old when this resistance started, and
Speaker 1: he passed away not long after. His third son, Juda
Speaker 1: Maccabee or due to the Hammer, became the leader of
Speaker 1: this resistance, and estimates really vary about the size of
Speaker 1: the fighting force that he recruited. It was somewhere between
Speaker 1: six thousand to twelve thousand people, but that's still really
Speaker 1: com paled in comparison to the Seleucid force of forty thousand.
Speaker 1: Even so, thanks to their superior knowledge of the hills
Speaker 1: and caves around Judea and the fact that the Soleucids
Speaker 1: originally underestimated what they were up against, they were able
Speaker 1: to successfully resist and ultimately defeat the Greek force. It
Speaker 1: wasn't only the Greek force that the Maccabee army was fighting, though.
Speaker 1: They were also fighting back against the people they saw
Speaker 1: as godless or Jews who are willing to follow Greek law. Today,
Speaker 1: there's actually some debate among scholars about how much of
Speaker 1: this resistance was really about the Greeks and how much
Speaker 1: was about the Hellenistic Jews. When Antiocus the fourth died,
Speaker 1: he was succeeded by his son anti Acaus the fifth.
Speaker 1: He ruled from one sixty four to one sixty two BC,
Speaker 1: and anti Acus the fifth repealed his father's decree, saying
Speaker 1: that he wanted the subjects of the kingdom to be
Speaker 1: undisturbed in looking after their own affairs. He left the
Speaker 1: Jewish community free to quote follow the customs of their ancestors.
Speaker 1: Following anti Acis the fifth decree, the Jewish community in
Speaker 1: Jerusalem began cleaning the temple and removing the Greek idols
Speaker 1: had been placed there. In mid December of one b C,
Speaker 1: or kiss Lev in the Jewish calendar, it was ready
Speaker 1: to be rededicated, and this rededication was an eight day
Speaker 1: observance that included songs, prayers, and burnt offerings. The word
Speaker 1: Hanakah means dedication, and the holiday is in celebration of
Speaker 1: this cleansing and rededication of the temple. The Hanukkah story
Speaker 1: that most people are the most familiar with is that
Speaker 1: consecrated oil was needed to re light the temple's manora,
Speaker 1: but there was only one day's worth of oil and
Speaker 1: it would take a week to consecrate more of it. However,
Speaker 1: in this story, a miracle occurred and that one day's
Speaker 1: worth of oil burned for eight keeping the manora lit,
Speaker 1: when more keeping the manora lit until more consecrated oil
Speaker 1: was ready for it. This story was first written down
Speaker 1: hundreds of years after the temple's dedication, so many people
Speaker 1: view it as symbolic rather than as a historical fact,
Speaker 1: and instead of being about burning oil, the miracle of
Speaker 1: Hanukah becomes a twofold miracle, combining the spiritual victory of
Speaker 1: Jewish values over Greek values and the military victory of
Speaker 1: the Jewish force over the Seleucid army that vastly outnumbered
Speaker 1: them and had far superior training, equipment, and supplies. And
Speaker 1: if the story ended here, it would be kind of
Speaker 1: the like peaceful, happy, warm, delicious fried food time that
Speaker 1: I have experienced with Honka but and ti Akuss decree
Speaker 1: and the rededication of the temple and the restoration of
Speaker 1: religious freedoms did not put an end to the Maccabean revolt,
Speaker 1: and we will talk about how and why it continued.
Speaker 1: After a sponsor break. After the restoration of Jewish religious
Speaker 1: freedom and the rededication of the Temple, the maccabee's went
Speaker 1: on to start another revolt, this time with the ultimate
Speaker 1: goal of obtaining total independence from the Seleucids. Judah mccabee
Speaker 1: won a major victory against the fighting force led by
Speaker 1: Seleucid general nicaaner In, and much of the Salucid army
Speaker 1: was destroyed in this battle. This decisive victory caught the
Speaker 1: attention of Rome. The mccabee's went on to sign a
Speaker 1: treaty with Rome that same year. Rome had become a
Speaker 1: threat to both the Ptolemy's and the Sleucids, so doing
Speaker 1: this was a little bit of, you know, the enemy
Speaker 1: of my enemy is my friend kind of thing. After
Speaker 1: Judah mccabee died in battle, his brother Jonatan or Jonathan
Speaker 1: took over and established himself as the leader in Judea,
Speaker 1: which soon became an autonomous part of the Sleucid Empire.
Speaker 1: Through a treaty with Seleucid king Alexander Balas Following the treaty,
Speaker 1: Jonathan established himself as ruler in one fifty three b C.
Speaker 1: And at the same time, Jonathan was also a high priest.
Speaker 1: This was a massive upward move in status for the Maccabee's,
Speaker 1: who also came to be known as the Hasmanian family.
Speaker 1: They had been village priests, and now they were both
Speaker 1: the ruling family of an autonomous Jewish state and also
Speaker 1: the high priestly family of the Jewish temple. However, simultaneously
Speaker 1: being the secular leader and the high priest was contrary
Speaker 1: to Jewish law and to the hereditary lines of secular
Speaker 1: and religious succession within Judaism, so Jonathan's leadership over religious
Speaker 1: matters became especially problematic because he had been leading battles
Speaker 1: during the revolt. All of this created big, big divisions
Speaker 1: within the Jewish population because there were people who supported
Speaker 1: the Maccabean leadership over both civil and religious matters, and
Speaker 1: then other people who thought this combination of roles and
Speaker 1: disregarding the way that that civil and religious leadership had
Speaker 1: been passed down through generations, felt like that violated the
Speaker 1: law and was wrong. When Jonathan was killed, his brother
Speaker 1: Shimune or Simon took over, and under Simon's rule, the
Speaker 1: Maccabees overthrew Acra, which was the Greek stronghold in Jerusalem,
Speaker 1: in one forty two b C. Afterwards, Simon declared total
Speaker 1: independence from the Seleucids, establishing an independent Jewish kingdom that
Speaker 1: came to be known as the Hasmanian Kingdom. This was
Speaker 1: a dynastic kingdom, with leadership passing down from father to son,
Speaker 1: although it was later on in this dynasty before anyone
Speaker 1: actually took the title of king. When Simon died, his
Speaker 1: successor was Johannan's Hercanus or John Hercanus, the first, who
Speaker 1: threw a series of military conquests made the Hasmanian dynasty
Speaker 1: about as powerful as the Seleucids. He also forcibly converted
Speaker 1: people to Judaism in this conquered territory. John Hercanus's successor
Speaker 1: was his son Alexander Yanni, who also conquered new territory
Speaker 1: and added it to the Hasmanian Kingdom. And in addition
Speaker 1: to fighting with his Seleucid neighbors, he also took sides
Speaker 1: in a conflict among the various factions that had arisen
Speaker 1: in response to has Many in rule, at one point,
Speaker 1: reportedly executing eight hundred pharisees who opposed him. The hasmany
Speaker 1: And dynasty was in power for about eighty years until
Speaker 1: sixty three BC. It started to decline after the death
Speaker 1: of Queen salome A Alexandra and sixty seven b C,
Speaker 1: and in fighting between her sons weakened the kingdom. Roman
Speaker 1: general Pompey took advantage of these two stones rivalry with
Speaker 1: each other to lay siege to Jerusalem, which ended in
Speaker 1: a massacre, and that was really the end of the dynasty.
Speaker 1: As we mentioned earlier in the show, the first Hanukkah
Speaker 1: celebrations were in recognition of the cleansing and rededication of
Speaker 1: the Second Temple in Jerusalem, but as the hasmany And
Speaker 1: dynasty evolved, the celebration of Hanukah served another purpose as well.
Speaker 1: Because the has many And dynasty's dual role as both
Speaker 1: priests and secular rulers was not met with universal approval,
Speaker 1: they established a holiday that would reframe the revolt as
Speaker 1: a noble struggle and ultimately Victoria's struggle against Greek oppression.
Speaker 1: After the end of the Hasmanian dynasty, there was a
Speaker 1: move away from celebrating Hanakah as a major Jewish holiday,
Speaker 1: both due to its origins through the Hasmanian dynasty, the
Speaker 1: fact that that dynasty was problematic for a lot of
Speaker 1: people in terms of Jewish law, and the fact that
Speaker 1: it isn't mentioned anywhere in the Torah. Today, though, hanaka
Speaker 1: has become a really a culturally important holiday for a
Speaker 1: lot of Jewish people, particularly in the Jewish diaspora. A
Speaker 1: lot of the traditions that are most associated with Hanakah today,
Speaker 1: like eating latka and other fried food from that has
Speaker 1: been fried and oil, come from these family and community
Speaker 1: celebrations that started long after the end of the Hasmanian dynasty,
Speaker 1: and they've mostly been about, you know, a community, a
Speaker 1: minority community that has often been living in a place
Speaker 1: where where it's been oppressed and discriminated against. So Hanukah
Speaker 1: celebrations around the world have come to reflect that the
Speaker 1: communities and the traditions and the cultures where they take
Speaker 1: place uh much more so than the story that originally
Speaker 1: launched the holiday, which as I was researching this um,
Speaker 1: I would find I would find things about the history
Speaker 1: of Hanakah that would basically stop at the rededication of
Speaker 1: the temple and not really talk about what went on
Speaker 1: with the Hasbanian dynasty after that. And then I would
Speaker 1: find others by modern Jewish scholars and you know, rabbis
Speaker 1: living today who were like, this was anti Jewish, Like
Speaker 1: this was not this, this later part of this history
Speaker 1: is not what we as Jews believe today about religious
Speaker 1: freedoms and about Jewish law. So it was really interesting
Speaker 1: as an outsider's perspective to see how like multiple person
Speaker 1: infectives within one faith about how how this has talked
Speaker 1: about in discussed because like they're there's are definitely people
Speaker 1: who were like and this was an independent Jewish state
Speaker 1: and that was great, and people who are more like
Speaker 1: this was an independent Jewish state, but they were making
Speaker 1: a lot of decisions that I don't know that I
Speaker 1: don't agree with. So uh, there is definitely diversity within
Speaker 1: basically all religions, including Judaism as far as um, you know,
Speaker 1: interpreting events from their past and interpreting events that are
Speaker 1: now holidays with celebrations that are in some ways disconnected
Speaker 1: from what actually happened to spawn that holiday. Fay so
Speaker 1: much for joining us on this Saturday. Since this episode
Speaker 1: is out of the archive, if you heard an email
Speaker 1: address or a Facebook U r L or something similar
Speaker 1: over the course of the show that could be obsolete
Speaker 1: now are current email it or US is history podcast
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