Speaker 1: Hey, this is any and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.
Speaker 1: Never told your prediction. I heart radio. Here's the here's
Speaker 1: the question. Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, Um, what is
Speaker 1: one of the worst the fingers you've ever had to
Speaker 1: experience in your life? Oh? You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: We talked about this because we were talking about Star
Speaker 1: Wars and how you had wished that you were in
Speaker 1: that generation so you could have been part of the
Speaker 1: like the excitement of coming to see it, and I
Speaker 1: was thinking that our generation was probably more of like
Speaker 1: Harry Potter and that's still a little older, a little
Speaker 1: younger for me. But as it went, I think that
Speaker 1: was something that I was like, oh yeah, I'm waiting
Speaker 1: for that that we got to watch it. But then again,
Speaker 1: like recently super Natural, since I've been watching it and
Speaker 1: because of the hiatus I've been awaiting and since it
Speaker 1: was the finale, it felt like a big cliffhanger too. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and I know I've talked about it on
Speaker 1: the show before, but uh, it's always comes out as
Speaker 1: a brag and I don't we need to be. But
Speaker 1: I've watched that on TV like literally since it's been
Speaker 1: out right and they used to be like epic, like
Speaker 1: Season four and Dean's hanging for the chains and you're like,
Speaker 1: I've gotta wait months and what happens. They did that
Speaker 1: like every time they were oh clutch, A lot of
Speaker 1: those c w w B that they had the cliff,
Speaker 1: they had it down. I think I agree with you
Speaker 1: about Harry Potter. That was pretty big, especially between like
Speaker 1: four and five. That was like a five year weight.
Speaker 1: It was a long wait. Well because it also was
Speaker 1: pretty close into the book releases, so you didn't know
Speaker 1: any of the story because I would say Lord of
Speaker 1: the Rings. But we had the books and it was accessible,
Speaker 1: and of course I was really excited to see because
Speaker 1: that was probably my generation more so than Harry Potter. Um,
Speaker 1: I was really excited to see it. But I could
Speaker 1: read what was happening, and I did. I went through
Speaker 1: those books because I like, I gotta go good at now. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: That's the interesting thing now that I'm thinking about about
Speaker 1: Star Wars for me and my complaints about not getting
Speaker 1: to experience that is I did get to experience the prequels,
Speaker 1: which I did like as a kid. But the thing,
Speaker 1: as you knew, it's the thing with Word of the Rings,
Speaker 1: so I knew how it ended, Like we all knew, well,
Speaker 1: you could find out they were born, right, so it
Speaker 1: wasn't that same level. Um and then I will say
Speaker 1: Avengers if anymore in game, Like we were all pretty
Speaker 1: sure what was going to happen, but that was a
Speaker 1: pretty epic clipper, right. I didn't know because I don't
Speaker 1: I guess I don't dig deep into what I think
Speaker 1: is going to happen. Yeah, yeah on those adventure movies.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, what's happening? I mean that was so
Speaker 1: great though for that like almost a year we had
Speaker 1: that dust effect and it was just like, right, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I'm bringing this up because this is a rare part
Speaker 1: two stuff I've never told you doesn't do too many
Speaker 1: two parters, even though we probably should. Yeah, we're always
Speaker 1: like future episode too much. Um. And it's about a
Speaker 1: revisionist history of abortion and Samantha, you just saw I
Speaker 1: saw something about um so the Human Rights Watch organization,
Speaker 1: and I've noticed I follow them and the people they
Speaker 1: retweet and uh, according to their reports this week, Argentina's
Speaker 1: lower health past the bill legalizing abortion, and that is huge.
Speaker 1: Now of course, obviously it sounds like it's going to
Speaker 1: be a lot of big work up to see what happens.
Speaker 1: But the fact that it has already started, and as
Speaker 1: we've been talking about previously about different countries around the world,
Speaker 1: how this is becoming a bigger and bigger thing, and
Speaker 1: how we are seeing it played out and abortions rights
Speaker 1: and the reproduction rights, reproductive rights as we're talking about
Speaker 1: it in in Georgia and in the US. So seeing
Speaker 1: that Argentina is also making moves is amazing. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I I see uh a Monday many in our future,
Speaker 1: perhaps keep an eye on that. Um, I will know.
Speaker 1: As with your cord this it's December, so things can change.
Speaker 1: Imagining this is happening in January, people like what just
Speaker 1: what in the world's ended? What are you talking about? Oh?
Speaker 1: I hope not. I hope not. Well in the meantime, yes,
Speaker 1: please enjoy this classic episode. Welcome to Stuff Mom Never
Speaker 1: Told You from House Toport dot com. Hello, and welcome
Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Prison and I'm Caroline, And this
Speaker 1: is part two of our two parter on the history
Speaker 1: of abortion and really the history of the criminalization and
Speaker 1: subsequent legalization of abortion focused here in the United States. Yeah,
Speaker 1: In our last episode, we essentially ended on the point
Speaker 1: where abortion had become illegal across and America. Women who
Speaker 1: sought abortions were considered immoral and irresponsible. There was no
Speaker 1: discussion of what responsibility the father had, if any, And
Speaker 1: all of this was set against the backdrop of being
Speaker 1: the progressive era, where a lot of people assumed they
Speaker 1: knew better, that they knew better than women of whatever class,
Speaker 1: but particularly poor women. Uh. They assumed they knew better
Speaker 1: than women of color. Uh, they assumed they knew better
Speaker 1: than midwives. And that all of these people were just
Speaker 1: essentially helpless, unintelligent, immoral, low class people who should be
Speaker 1: taught just how immoral they were being by seeking abortions.
Speaker 1: And there's one person in particular who is complex and
Speaker 1: controversial but also a pioneer and someone who in a
Speaker 1: very fascinating way, encompasses all of these elements. Is that me, Carol,
Speaker 1: And it's hunger. Oh my gosh, thank you. It is
Speaker 1: Margaret Sanger. Yeah, okay, well I think she was also
Speaker 1: a brunette. I'll take it. Yeah, another brown eyed girl, yes, exactly. Um.
Speaker 1: And of course Margaret Sanger was controversial in her day,
Speaker 1: just as she's still controversial now, but in an effort
Speaker 1: to provide women away to prevent pregnancy, she wanted to
Speaker 1: liberate them. She wanted to give women a choice in
Speaker 1: limiting their families, but in doing so, she also wanted
Speaker 1: to prevent abortion. She was not on the abortion train,
Speaker 1: so to speak. But this is a woman who also
Speaker 1: then helped found Planned Parenthood exactly. And um, she came
Speaker 1: of age under the Comstock era laws. And for those
Speaker 1: of you who haven't listened to part one, just as
Speaker 1: a recap, Anthony Compstaw is the worst. He basically is
Speaker 1: responsible for outlawing any sort of birth control related information
Speaker 1: being sent through the mail. And regardless, sang Or dedicated
Speaker 1: her life to legalizing birth control, the very thing that
Speaker 1: would be illegal to talk to people about some correspondence
Speaker 1: about I'm sure you could not advertise birth control the time.
Speaker 1: And she wanted to develop what she called a magic
Speaker 1: pill to help save women's lives. Yeah, and so it's
Speaker 1: worth noting, like I was saying, that sang Her thought
Speaker 1: that abortion was okay only as a last resort to
Speaker 1: save the mother's life. She thought that doing it to
Speaker 1: limit offspring was dangerous and vicious. But The whole thing
Speaker 1: was that she felt that providing women a safe contraceptive
Speaker 1: method would make abortion wholly unnecessary, which is interesting when
Speaker 1: you revisit that thought today, because so many people are
Speaker 1: still against comprehensive sex said, they're against providing birth control
Speaker 1: or contraception of any kind, and yet they're also against
Speaker 1: letting people have abortions. So Sayer's reasoning was, if we
Speaker 1: teach women and couples, not just women, but couples about contraception,
Speaker 1: we can prevent this thing that so many people seem
Speaker 1: to dislike so much. And this conviction was deeply personal
Speaker 1: for her because she watched her Irish Catholic mother essentially
Speaker 1: waste away at forty eight from tuberculosis after having eleven
Speaker 1: children and seven miscarriages. And after she grew up, she
Speaker 1: worked as a nurse in New York where she treated
Speaker 1: poor immigrant women who pursued unsafe abortions after using ineffective contraception.
Speaker 1: So she saw firsthand, on you know, professional and also
Speaker 1: a very personal familial level, the impact of women not
Speaker 1: having choice or any control really over their bodies, right,
Speaker 1: and she it's it's said that she blamed her father
Speaker 1: like over her mother's Coffin for his sex drive that
Speaker 1: killed her mother. But if we're going chronologically, Margaret Sanger
Speaker 1: was super busy in the years nineteen fourteen to nineteen sixteen.
Speaker 1: Who wasn't seriously, I mean, can't get a break. But
Speaker 1: so in this time, in nineteen fourteen, she coins the
Speaker 1: term birth control. So anytime in this episode, in the
Speaker 1: previous episode we've said the words birth control, those words
Speaker 1: didn't even really exist yet in the way that we
Speaker 1: think of them until Sanger coined the term. Uh. In
Speaker 1: nineteen fifteen, she was indicted for sending diaphragms through the mail,
Speaker 1: and then in nineteen sixteen she opens the country's first
Speaker 1: birth control clinic in Brooklyn. Of course, it was shut
Speaker 1: down just a few days later, and Sanger was convicted
Speaker 1: under those Comstock laws of disseminating birth control info. But
Speaker 1: she's a sneaky little man, inks, and she did that
Speaker 1: on purpose. It's not like she was like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna hope that no one notices and I'm going to
Speaker 1: be mailing women diaphragms in Ohio. No, she knew that
Speaker 1: it was against the law to disseminate birth control and
Speaker 1: to disseminate information about birth control, so she herself leaked
Speaker 1: the information to the press so that she could fight
Speaker 1: basically within the newspapers and from court these terrible freaking
Speaker 1: comstock laws. And when she appealed her conviction, she won,
Speaker 1: and it led to a new interpretation of New York's
Speaker 1: anti contraception statute, exempting doctors from the rule prohibiting birth
Speaker 1: control information dissemination if it was for medical reasons. There
Speaker 1: we go, so Sanger gets their first big victory. Then
Speaker 1: in she found the American Birth Control League, which is
Speaker 1: the precursor to planned parenthood. Thing is, she wouldn't have
Speaker 1: been able to do that had she not gone through
Speaker 1: the trouble of mailing diaphragms, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: she could never have had this clinic unless she broke
Speaker 1: the law. She had her good friend Katherine money Bags
Speaker 1: McLintock smuggle these diaphragms back in her coat from Europe
Speaker 1: so that she could mail them. And of course, btw,
Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about Kathery McClintock, you
Speaker 1: need to go over to our sister podcast, Stuff you
Speaker 1: missed in History Class. They've got a great episode all
Speaker 1: about her. But any who, in three uh, the Clinical
Speaker 1: Research Bureau opens and it's part of that American Birth
Speaker 1: Control League. It's the first legal birth control clinic and
Speaker 1: it serves as the abc l's medical arms. So it
Speaker 1: provides couples with contraception and counseling, It conducts research and
Speaker 1: a contraceptive and reproduction related medical practices. So she's a
Speaker 1: she's a genius, like managing to break the law in
Speaker 1: order to be able to open. Essentially what is like
Speaker 1: a loophole clinic, Like, oh, well, you know, I can't
Speaker 1: provide women with birth control or birth control education, but
Speaker 1: these doctors can. And so after a lot of wrangling
Speaker 1: and separating and merging and renaming these two groups, these
Speaker 1: two related groups become Planned Parenthood in nineteen forty two,
Speaker 1: and in ninety eight, just a few years later, Planned
Speaker 1: Parenthood awards a grant to the pretty nutty doctor Gregory Pinkis,
Speaker 1: who works with John Rock to create the pill. So
Speaker 1: Sanger was the ideas lady. She's like cornering Pinkus at
Speaker 1: cocktail parties, being like, you're going to do this for me?
Speaker 1: And he's like, cool, let's do it. I'm already testing
Speaker 1: things in possibly unethical ways and wealthy feminist suffragist Katherine
Speaker 1: McCormick teamed up with her to encourage that research and development.
Speaker 1: So you've got these women with kookie ideas about giving
Speaker 1: women their freedom to choose what kind of life they
Speaker 1: want to live. And by the nineteen sixties, Planned Parenthood
Speaker 1: had become this major force for women's health, birth control,
Speaker 1: and family planning. In in in nineteen sixty two, President Alan
Speaker 1: Gootmacker is this huge advocate for abortion access in the
Speaker 1: wake of these health crises in the United States, the
Speaker 1: Philidimide and Rebella crises, which led to a lot of
Speaker 1: birth defects, a lot of deformities among children. But abortion
Speaker 1: services do not become part of Planned Parenthood until after
Speaker 1: the ro versus Way decision in nineteen seventy three. Who
Speaker 1: but anyway, we've got to back up, because the whole
Speaker 1: thing about why Margaret saying are still today is even
Speaker 1: more controversial than just supporting birth control and women's independence.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, imagine the thought. Also, in one the
Speaker 1: same year that she founded the American Birth Control League,
Speaker 1: she also penned an essay titled the Eugenic Value of
Speaker 1: Birth Control Propaganda. Yeah, so she was one of the many,
Speaker 1: many a high profile Americans to subscribe to the eugenic theory.
Speaker 1: But the whole thing, as gene H. Baker argues in
Speaker 1: her book Margaret Saying Or A Life of Passion, is
Speaker 1: that her acceptance of the movement was a calculated, pragmatic tactic.
Speaker 1: Because Margaret sang Or was nothing y'all if not pragmatic
Speaker 1: and tactical and calculated. Baker writes, she needed allies and eugenics,
Speaker 1: the expert qualifications of its proponents, the scientific trappings of
Speaker 1: its evidence, it's expanding network of journals and associations, it's
Speaker 1: general acceptance among Americans, and even its international connections represented
Speaker 1: an opportunity to find friends and join a popular movement.
Speaker 1: But the thing is, she wasn't exactly welcomed with open
Speaker 1: arms by racists and classist eugenicists. In fact, a lot
Speaker 1: of them dismissed her and said that she didn't really
Speaker 1: understand the theory, and they really weren't too interested in
Speaker 1: her birth controlled notoriety either. Um And the main reason
Speaker 1: that they kind of gave Singer the side I was
Speaker 1: that she rejected the notion of race suicide and that
Speaker 1: rich white people should have more babies. Really, her thing,
Speaker 1: as we've said, was trying to liberate women in the process.
Speaker 1: She challenged eugenicis sex for reproduction idea. She really believed
Speaker 1: in the importance of the environment in improving society because
Speaker 1: she'd been born into one of those overpopulated, impoverished families.
Speaker 1: So she really thought that overpopulation was the problem, not
Speaker 1: the quote unquote good stock, as Teddy Roosevelt put it,
Speaker 1: which is a euphemistic way of saying white folks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: white folks working farm jobs and whatever. Uh So, when
Speaker 1: we look at that essay from there's some good parts
Speaker 1: of it, right. So she called birth control a new
Speaker 1: weapon of civilization and free edom. She wrote, not until
Speaker 1: the parents of the world are thus given control over
Speaker 1: their reproductive faculties will it ever be possible, not alone
Speaker 1: to improve the quality of generations of the future, but
Speaker 1: even to maintain civilization at its present level. And she
Speaker 1: really dismisses politicians and theorists idealistic codes of sexual ethics,
Speaker 1: the same things that people say today in criticizing things
Speaker 1: like abstinence only sex said, because the whole idea of
Speaker 1: like people like sex, people are gonna do the sex.
Speaker 1: Let's not have these idealistic thoughts about people not having sex,
Speaker 1: and let's try to meet them where they are. But
Speaker 1: of course there's the in her essay as well, in
Speaker 1: which she writes the eugenic and civilizational value of birth
Speaker 1: control is becoming a parent to the enlightened and the intelligent. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, basically, it seems like she I don't know,
Speaker 1: I mean that she's sort of trying to get on
Speaker 1: their good sides by being like, yeah, yeah, yeah, eugenics,
Speaker 1: that's totally cool, and I've got this great way that
Speaker 1: you can make that happen. It's through this little thing
Speaker 1: called birth control. And if we can teach you about
Speaker 1: eugenics and the importance of that, then in the process
Speaker 1: we can teach mothers about prophylaxis, sexual hygiene, and infant welfare.
Speaker 1: So while I honestly I don't see her motives as
Speaker 1: entirely pure, because even moderately aligning with eugenics is is
Speaker 1: not okay um, but it does seem like she has
Speaker 1: ulterior motives to what she's saying, yeah, because it does
Speaker 1: get worse. I mean, I'm not gonna lie here. She
Speaker 1: basically said, Listen, we can't stand by as the poor, criminal,
Speaker 1: and disabled have more kids than the wealthy do. But
Speaker 1: she wasn't arguing that we should, for instance, abort the
Speaker 1: children of poor people were disabled people. She was saying, rather,
Speaker 1: all of us should be having fewer children. She's got
Speaker 1: this really long quote about how unbalanced and this is
Speaker 1: this is under the category of bad. Uh. She says,
Speaker 1: there's this unbalanced between the birthrates of the fit and
Speaker 1: the unfit, which is a huge menace to civilization. And
Speaker 1: the wealthy. She's saying, or the fit should not be
Speaker 1: taking cues from the poor and the unfit by having
Speaker 1: more children. We should all be limiting our reproduction. She
Speaker 1: did go on to a point eugenicist to her clinics board. Uh,
Speaker 1: and eventually her former critics as people who were like, Sayinger,
Speaker 1: you're not doing eugenics right. Even her former critics came
Speaker 1: to see birth control that she was advocating for as
Speaker 1: a weapon against the high birthrates of the so called deficient, though,
Speaker 1: as Jane Baker writes, they still favored sterilization. And not
Speaker 1: surprisingly though this whole you know, association with direct association
Speaker 1: with eugenicists and the viewpoints that she's just housing in
Speaker 1: this essay are used commonly today and attempts to discredit
Speaker 1: Singer and convince people that birth control to some extent
Speaker 1: and abortion to an even greater extent, our efforts specifically
Speaker 1: to wipe out black people, and in fact, black activists
Speaker 1: in the late sixties accused Planned Parenthood of committing genocide
Speaker 1: by providing birth control in their neighborhoods, wondering, hey, why
Speaker 1: are you stutting up shop here? This seems a little suspicious.
Speaker 1: But it's important to note as well that back in
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties, leaders in the black community, including W. E. B.
Speaker 1: Dubois and Mary McLeod Bethoon, supported Singer's birth control advocacy
Speaker 1: and her so called Negro Project, or effort to open
Speaker 1: clinics for black women in the segregated South where only
Speaker 1: white women had access to birth control, and also to
Speaker 1: train black doctors. Yeah, and she, in an interview in
Speaker 1: was telling the reporter, when we first started out, an
Speaker 1: anti Negro white man offered me ten thousand dollars if
Speaker 1: I started in Harlem first. His idea was simply to
Speaker 1: cut down the number of negroes, spread it as far
Speaker 1: as you can among them. He said. That is of
Speaker 1: course not our idea. I turned him down, but that
Speaker 1: is an example of how vicious some people can be
Speaker 1: about this thing. So her motivation, while yes, she was
Speaker 1: opening birth control clinics in black neighborhoods or in poorer
Speaker 1: neighborhoods in general, her motivation was not to cut down
Speaker 1: on the numbers of poor people or people of color.
Speaker 1: Her motivation was to be the provider of this birth
Speaker 1: control and family planning and reproductive services information that women
Speaker 1: weren't getting elsewhere, particularly in this case women of color.
Speaker 1: I mean IMMANI gandhy over at r H. Reality check
Speaker 1: argues that, to be honest, uh saying or was more
Speaker 1: ablest than she was capital are racist? Did she say
Speaker 1: racist things? Yes? Was she elitist? Probably, but she had
Speaker 1: far more negative things to say about the mentally and
Speaker 1: physically disabled in society going on to procreate than she
Speaker 1: did about people of color. Well, and those planned parenthood
Speaker 1: and birth control clinics being set up in black communities
Speaker 1: might also make more sense when we look at what
Speaker 1: was going on and the links that women, especially poorer
Speaker 1: women and socio economically disadvantaged women, we're having to go
Speaker 1: to in order to deal with unwanted pregnancies because as
Speaker 1: we have said before, I mean, regardless of whether abortion
Speaker 1: is illegal or not, women have had them and will
Speaker 1: always have them. So if we go back to nineteen thirty,
Speaker 1: kind of, while Sayinger is building up for biz, abortion
Speaker 1: was said as the official cause of death for almost
Speaker 1: women around the United States and nearly eighteen percent of
Speaker 1: maternal deaths recorded that year. And this is coming from
Speaker 1: the Gootmacker Institute and down the road, antibiotics would help
Speaker 1: reduce the death toll. Um. But I mean, if if
Speaker 1: there's another Kinsey Institute researcher who estimated the annual illegal
Speaker 1: abortion death toll in the nineteen thirties the entire decade
Speaker 1: at seventeen thousand, because I mean, these numbers start to
Speaker 1: get a little unreliable because that I just mentioned is
Speaker 1: what is officially recorded. But since there were so many
Speaker 1: back alley procedures happening and things happening in women's homes, um,
Speaker 1: undoubtedly the number is higher than that. But what did
Speaker 1: we do? How do we solve this issue of this,
Speaker 1: you know, this health crisis essentially improving safe abortion? No,
Speaker 1: no enforcement, get the police involved. Yeah, so instead of
Speaker 1: trying to help women, educate families, anything of that, you know,
Speaker 1: very human nature. We essentially make women criminals. We we
Speaker 1: interrogate them while they're hospitalized after their bodged procedures. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and in nineteen sixty five, so thirty five years later,
Speaker 1: illegal abortion was still accounting for seventeen percent of all
Speaker 1: deaths attributed to pregnancy and childbirth that year. So I
Speaker 1: mean the situation hasn't improved. It's not like fewer women
Speaker 1: are seeking abortions, and low income women are especially hit
Speaker 1: hard by this issue. So a study of low income
Speaker 1: women in New York City in the nineteen sixties found
Speaker 1: that eight percent had ever attempted to terminate a pregnancy
Speaker 1: via illegal abortion, and seventy of those women attempted self
Speaker 1: induced abortion. And of all the women they talked to,
Speaker 1: thirty eight percent of them knew someone who had sought
Speaker 1: an illegal abortion. And of course, when it comes to
Speaker 1: illegal abortions and self induced abortions, it gets very, very dangerous,
Speaker 1: that's right. That same study of women in New York
Speaker 1: found that one in four white women's childbirth fatalities happened
Speaker 1: because of an abortion, compared to one in two women
Speaker 1: of colors. So there you start to see that same
Speaker 1: socio economic issue cropping up, and from two to nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy four, in fact, the mortality rate due to illegal
Speaker 1: abortion for non white women was twelve times greater than
Speaker 1: that for white women. And regardless though of these statistics,
Speaker 1: regardless of the fact that women knew that these kinds
Speaker 1: of procedures were very dangerous and illegal, they sought them
Speaker 1: out anyway. So again this is coming from the Gootmacker Institute.
Speaker 1: In the nineteen fifties and sixties and estimated two thousand
Speaker 1: to one point two million abortions were performed in the
Speaker 1: United States uh and by the nineteen sixties though, all
Speaker 1: states but Pennsylvania had exemptions to their abortion laws. So
Speaker 1: by this time the laws on a state by state
Speaker 1: basis are starting to open up a little bit. People
Speaker 1: are starting to get together there even like coalitions of
Speaker 1: doctors who are you know, having seen all these patients
Speaker 1: coming in having you know, damaged themselves from illegal or
Speaker 1: attempted self induced abortions, see the problem and realize that
Speaker 1: something needs to be done with this. So we we
Speaker 1: are seeing more access, but obtaining an abortion during this
Speaker 1: time was still not very simple. Most hospitals would have
Speaker 1: a board of doctors set up and it would usually,
Speaker 1: of course be all dudes UM where if you were
Speaker 1: a patient in need of an abortion, you would have
Speaker 1: to go before this board and essentially have your procedure approved.
Speaker 1: But even getting that far meant that you likely had
Speaker 1: to be a white woman with a little bit of
Speaker 1: disposal income and time. So much time the time to
Speaker 1: do this, I mean, you had to go before this
Speaker 1: standing hospital committee. It might require an additional physical exam
Speaker 1: by a doctor, it might require a mental health exam
Speaker 1: by a psychiatrist, and then you might have to have
Speaker 1: some type of law enforcement officer certifying that a woman
Speaker 1: had actually been sexually assaulted in the case of saying
Speaker 1: I need the abortion because I was raped or assaulted. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean because during this time I should have clarified
Speaker 1: that this is only to obtain one of those therapeutic abortions.
Speaker 1: This wasn't abortion on demand, right, And you know you
Speaker 1: brought up the issue of UM laws and attitude starting
Speaker 1: to loosen up a little bit. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: it's worth referring back to that author Leslie Reagan, who
Speaker 1: we quoted in our first episode, where she talked a
Speaker 1: lot about the professionalization of medicine and how that turned
Speaker 1: so many people against midwives and against trusting women to
Speaker 1: know their own bodies. And she pointed out, and I
Speaker 1: think it's worth noting here that there's always been a
Speaker 1: distinction between quote unquote organized medicine and individual physicians, because
Speaker 1: organized medicine capital oh, capital M in all of the
Speaker 1: air quotes, was at this time, yes, officially against abortion
Speaker 1: and in some cases maybe only accepting of abortion in
Speaker 1: the cases of rape or ancestor things like that. UM,
Speaker 1: But it was the doctors who were on the front line,
Speaker 1: so to speak, who we're seeing, these desperate women who
Speaker 1: needed these procedures, who might be trying to help women
Speaker 1: and provide them anyway. Well, and you also have women
Speaker 1: kind of creating their own abortion services in a way. UM.
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty three, the feminist abortion Counseling service of
Speaker 1: the Chicago Women's Liberation Union It's a long name creates
Speaker 1: an underground abortion service code named Jane. And the story
Speaker 1: of Jane is worth its own podcast, honestly, because it
Speaker 1: all started when one woman UM was approached by a
Speaker 1: friend of hers who had knew someone who really needed
Speaker 1: an abortion and this woman knew a doctor, and so
Speaker 1: that kind of started the whole thing. It's like she
Speaker 1: knew one doctor who could do it. So then like
Speaker 1: the words spread that that this woman could hook you
Speaker 1: up with a doctor who would perform an abortion. And
Speaker 1: she realized that the more women who were coming to her,
Speaker 1: how big this need was. And since abortion and reproductive
Speaker 1: rights were such a huge issue within second wave feminism
Speaker 1: and women's liberation, UH, they decided to kind of align
Speaker 1: with the Chicago Women's Liberation Union and about one hundred
Speaker 1: women set this underground service up that provided more than
Speaker 1: eleven thousand safe and affordable abortions through nineteen seventy three
Speaker 1: when Rob Wade happened. Yeah, it's fascinating that you could
Speaker 1: even find them through the phone book. It was actually
Speaker 1: listed under the name Jane how And some of those
Speaker 1: women who were working in this network actually themselves became
Speaker 1: trained in administering an abortion. And it was one first
Speaker 1: person account that we read of a woman who went
Speaker 1: through this Jane process and she was astounded. Basically, she's like,
Speaker 1: here are these like soccer moms? Essentially, she didn't say that,
Speaker 1: but it was like, here are these like well to
Speaker 1: do white ladies who have kids of their own, and
Speaker 1: they're like having me over for tea to prep me
Speaker 1: for the procedure, to tell me what to expect and
Speaker 1: how to prepare and and where to go, and she's like,
Speaker 1: you know, it just blew my mind that these women
Speaker 1: were being so supportive. Well, and when though the actual
Speaker 1: day would come, the women would have to be blindfolded
Speaker 1: during the procedure so that they could never see the
Speaker 1: abortionists because uh, if they knew that then that abortionists
Speaker 1: could be liable for obviously for being arrested. But they
Speaker 1: even mentioned that some Chicago police were helpful in a
Speaker 1: way about it, like there were a couple of times
Speaker 1: when you know, women would show up to the Jane
Speaker 1: House obviously and look a little confused, and there'd be
Speaker 1: a police officer who would be like, you know, you
Speaker 1: just go, you know, kind of a wink and a
Speaker 1: nudge like, yeah, you're at the right place going up there, um,
Speaker 1: which I mean, that's it seems like a rare exception
Speaker 1: to the rule of people generally being awful in regard
Speaker 1: to women seeking abortion at the time, but it speaks
Speaker 1: so much to the lengths that women were willing to
Speaker 1: go to that they would train themselves well. Also they
Speaker 1: had a doctor who trained them to um and even
Speaker 1: performing abortions and like setting up this whole network in Chicago.
Speaker 1: And there was even a black woman talking about her
Speaker 1: motivation for joining Jane so that when women of color
Speaker 1: would come through that it would be comforting for them
Speaker 1: to see her in the room. And how interesting though
Speaker 1: write that In our first episode we talked about how
Speaker 1: the progressive era really Chicago was sort of an incubator
Speaker 1: for all of these progressive era movements, but I mean
Speaker 1: they also existed, of course across the country. And then
Speaker 1: you had that group of upper class white people, both
Speaker 1: women and doctors and whoever, telling other people that they
Speaker 1: knew better than them. And now here you've got this
Speaker 1: wonderful underground, supportive network of again middle to upper class
Speaker 1: white women and women of color who were like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm here for my sisters to help them through
Speaker 1: this time. And partially because of the protests and activism
Speaker 1: of the Women's liberation movement and concerted efforts by groups
Speaker 1: of doctors, also religious groups, politicians, attitudes and laws, we're
Speaker 1: finally starting to change. In fact, by the time Roe
Speaker 1: V Wade passed, most states had rolled back their abortion laws. Um,
Speaker 1: there was only there only. I think Pennsylvania was the
Speaker 1: only place that completely outlawed abortion under any circumstances. So,
Speaker 1: as has been pretty clear throughout Part one and now
Speaker 1: our part two discussion on abortion, it's really hard to
Speaker 1: separate the fight for birth control from the fight for abortion.
Speaker 1: They're all sort of one and the same, especially when
Speaker 1: you look back at the era of the Comstock laws
Speaker 1: in the turn of the twentieth century, and so many
Speaker 1: people equated the two. It's it's they can't seem to
Speaker 1: be separated in so many people's minds, And so I
Speaker 1: wanted to hit on some birth control milestones that were
Speaker 1: happening at the same time as the abortion laws were
Speaker 1: being rolled back in so many states across the country.
Speaker 1: So in nineteen speaking of the Comstock laws, the U. S.
Speaker 1: Supreme Court did away with them, saying that the private
Speaker 1: use of contraceptives was a constitutional right, and immediately ten
Speaker 1: states loosened to their birth control restrictions, followed in the
Speaker 1: next three years by I think thirteen others, and then
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy, just five years later, President Nixon signed
Speaker 1: titled ten into law, which made contraceptives available regardless of
Speaker 1: income and also provided funding for educational programs and research
Speaker 1: and contraceptive development. Hey, that's a pretty cool thing that
Speaker 1: old Nixon did. Right there, we go, all right, thanks
Speaker 1: for that. At least Nixon um Planned Parenthood got money
Speaker 1: from titled TIN and Medicaid patients to subsidize birth control,
Speaker 1: STD screenings and other reproductive health services for patients who
Speaker 1: might lack health insurance coverage. So that's a really big deal.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and that's why Title ten is so important
Speaker 1: still today. I mean, it's still it's still with us,
Speaker 1: and it's still helps land Parenthood and other reproductive health
Speaker 1: clinics help people in this country. And then into the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court finally, okay, is birth control use by unmarried women? Thanks?
Speaker 1: I mean like thank you, no, thank you. But like guys, country,
Speaker 1: United States people, it took that long for it to
Speaker 1: be like, all right, unmarried women, like, we'll let you
Speaker 1: have this as well. And isn't it wild to think
Speaker 1: that it took the Supreme Court to decide that it's wild?
Speaker 1: And yet not in this country's history, especially considering all
Speaker 1: of the history we've just been going over. But on
Speaker 1: the abortion front. What's happening simultaneously in this time. If
Speaker 1: we hop back a little bit to nineteen sixty two,
Speaker 1: the American Law Institute calls for abortion to be legal
Speaker 1: under certain circumstances, so like in instances of rape and incests.
Speaker 1: They were this this whole group of judges, lawyers, aw
Speaker 1: enforcement who's saying, like, come on, like, we we have
Speaker 1: to loosen the restrictions on women who go through these
Speaker 1: certain situations. In nineteen sixty seven, if we hop back
Speaker 1: across the pond, Britain passes the Abortion Act, allowing for
Speaker 1: abortion as long as two medical professionals agreed that pregnancy
Speaker 1: endangered the mom's life, or the mental or physical health
Speaker 1: of the woman and her children, or in cases of
Speaker 1: fetal deformity and handicap. It's also in this year that
Speaker 1: Colorado becomes the first U. S state to rework their
Speaker 1: abortion laws based on those American Law Institute recommendations. So
Speaker 1: this is what Kristen is talking about when she mentioned
Speaker 1: how in America we start seeing this rollback on the
Speaker 1: across the board ban on abortion. And in nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: we get some really good news. Hawaii becomes the first
Speaker 1: state to decriminalize abortion, and this is through twenty weeks
Speaker 1: and only for residents. The big news also that year
Speaker 1: New York is the first to legalize abortion without that
Speaker 1: residency require it and through the twenty four week of
Speaker 1: pregnancy if performed by a physician. And in the first
Speaker 1: year abortion became legalized in New York, six of the
Speaker 1: women who had abortions in that state came from out
Speaker 1: of town. In nineteen seventy two, for instance, an estimated
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand women traveled to New York in order
Speaker 1: to have an abortion. I mean, and that also goes
Speaker 1: to not just the literal geographical links that women would
Speaker 1: go to for an abortion, but think about again the time,
Speaker 1: the cost. I remember. My mom, who has been a
Speaker 1: flight attendant for about four hundred years, has told me
Speaker 1: stories about how when she was first starting out flying,
Speaker 1: and she was flying the short turnaround trips, which is
Speaker 1: basically you go out one day and you come back
Speaker 1: the same day on the same plane, and she would
Speaker 1: take up young women to New York and see them
Speaker 1: either traveling alone or with an older woman, and that
Speaker 1: those same women would be coming back on the night
Speaker 1: flight on the same same return trip to Atlanta. So
Speaker 1: with the wink and the nod of like, okay, well
Speaker 1: you're going to go have something done in New York.
Speaker 1: You're traveling to New York for a purpose. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: And just thinking this has been making me think too
Speaker 1: about especially the situations in Texas where so many clinics
Speaker 1: are being shut down and the thousands of miles that
Speaker 1: women have to drive in order to get to a clinic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: with all of those tens and tens and tens of
Speaker 1: thousands of women who are traveling to New York, not
Speaker 1: everybody could do that. You know, you had to have
Speaker 1: the time and the money and the resources to be
Speaker 1: able to travel and have the procedure done well. Then,
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three, Old Scotus hands down its decision
Speaker 1: and rov Wade legalizing abortion. And like I said, though
Speaker 1: by this time abortion or form legislation had been introduced
Speaker 1: in all but five states, and Ruth Peter Ginsburg actually
Speaker 1: was one of many who were concerned over how Row
Speaker 1: went down because it was legalized on the basis of
Speaker 1: the Fourteenth Amendment and right to privacy, and she and
Speaker 1: others were concerned that by not going the state by
Speaker 1: state route it would, as it has been, be immediately challenged. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was, and it has been ever since, starting in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six with the High Amendment. Representative Henry Hyde
Speaker 1: introduced his namesake Amendment, which prohibited federal Medicaid funds for
Speaker 1: abortions for poor women. So right out of the gate,
Speaker 1: we have poor women being shoved to the side. Yet again,
Speaker 1: here's the thing in this whole whole history of abortion,
Speaker 1: poor women, women of color are always the ones who
Speaker 1: are hit the hardest. Yeah, I mean we think of
Speaker 1: the no federal funding for abortion are agument as being
Speaker 1: a modern thing part of the modern planned parenthood debate
Speaker 1: that's going on, that's raging and won't stop raging. But no,
Speaker 1: I mean this is immediately after Row that the no
Speaker 1: we are going to let you use federal funds for
Speaker 1: abortion thing that started out right away. It's also this
Speaker 1: same year, interestingly enough, that abortion becomes part of political platforms.
Speaker 1: The Republicans adopt their anti choice platform and the Dems
Speaker 1: align themselves with a pro choice platform. This is also
Speaker 1: the year that Planned Parenthood sees its first arson and
Speaker 1: a series of bombings follows in and next up on
Speaker 1: this depressing timeline because it took us so long to
Speaker 1: get to nineteen seventy three, and now we're just tumbling
Speaker 1: right back down this hill. In Ballade versus Bared, the
Speaker 1: ruling found that states could insist that a minor obtain
Speaker 1: parental consent or persuade a judge that she was mature,
Speaker 1: or that an abortion without parental notification was in her
Speaker 1: best interests. So essentially we start to calm implicate the
Speaker 1: process for obtaining an abortion on demand. And in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty that high Amendment rears its head again and Harras v. McRae,
Speaker 1: the ruling stated that states were not required to fund
Speaker 1: abortions for which federal reimbursement was not available thanks to
Speaker 1: that high amendment. Further hides, funding restrictions were found not
Speaker 1: to violate the Fifth Amendment. So it's against this backdrop
Speaker 1: in the eighties during and post Reagan administration that anti abortion,
Speaker 1: birth control and sex ed rhetoric and policies really pick up,
Speaker 1: as does violence against abortion clinics. Again, we see even
Speaker 1: more Planned parenthood bombings, and speaking of planned parenthood, Planned
Speaker 1: Parenthood v. Casey upholds a highly restrictive Pennsylvania law that
Speaker 1: included mandatory waiting periods, parental consent, and bias information and further,
Speaker 1: and this was really troubling also to notorious RBG. The
Speaker 1: court abandoned the legal principles of ROW and allowed laws
Speaker 1: designed to limit access to abortion at any stage of pregnancy,
Speaker 1: so long as the law does not place an undue
Speaker 1: burden on a woman's access to abortion. And the definition
Speaker 1: of an undue burden, my friends, is massive. I mean
Speaker 1: quite recently there I forget the court case, but these
Speaker 1: judges were going back and forth, I believe, over an
Speaker 1: issue in Texas and this whole undue burden thing and
Speaker 1: women were having to drive thousands of miles and one
Speaker 1: of the judges was like, well, it's pretty flat in Texas.
Speaker 1: They're not they're not walking, I mean unless they are,
Speaker 1: but jeez, what really? No? And I I rolled my
Speaker 1: eyes so heavily so many times reading that whole undue
Speaker 1: burden bit, because what what do you what's supposed to
Speaker 1: be the undue burden? Like, I mean, simply by closing clinics,
Speaker 1: you're placing an undue burden on these women who have
Speaker 1: to travel. Well, yeah, and with the mandatory waiting period,
Speaker 1: I mean you have jobs on the line, and I
Speaker 1: mean so much that you have to to do in
Speaker 1: order to obtain one. And then the nineties there's just
Speaker 1: a horrific string of violence, yeah, and pretty rapid succession.
Speaker 1: We see Uhr, David Gunn becoming the first US abortion
Speaker 1: provider to be murdered. The following year, another plan Parent
Speaker 1: had doctor his security escort, and to Planned Parent had
Speaker 1: employees were killed in separate shootings. And in we see
Speaker 1: a bombing that kills an off duty police officer and
Speaker 1: a sniper killing a doctor. So the nineties were incredibly
Speaker 1: violent and scary for both abortion providers and seekers. And
Speaker 1: more recently, in two thousand seven, in Gonzalez v. Carhart,
Speaker 1: Scout US uphole the so called partial Birth Abortion Ban Act,
Speaker 1: which President George W. Bush had signed into law in
Speaker 1: two thousand three. And here's the thing. There is no
Speaker 1: medical procedure known as partial birth. Essentially, it's more of
Speaker 1: a rhetorical manipulation, yes, for a later term abortion, but
Speaker 1: the law has been interpreted as barring doctors from performing
Speaker 1: an intact dilation and evacuation, which is a procedure where
Speaker 1: there's no instrumentation before the fetus is removed unless the
Speaker 1: fetus is no longer alive. So it's it's horrifying. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is so much context for the debate and the
Speaker 1: violence were experiencing today around abortion and plant parenthead. But
Speaker 1: it's horrifying that literally. I mean, since the Rev. Wade ruling,
Speaker 1: we've just been trying to climb back down that mountain well,
Speaker 1: and we've forgotten where we came from to begin with.
Speaker 1: I mean, was this history as surprising to learn for
Speaker 1: you as it was for me, just in terms of
Speaker 1: all of the complexity and the midwhiffery and all of
Speaker 1: this bait and switch that happened. Ye oh yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: The fact that abortion seems to be yes to people
Speaker 1: for whatever reason find abortion to be immoral, and have
Speaker 1: they yes or to be taboo. Yes, But the fact
Speaker 1: that abortion seems to have been, over our history a
Speaker 1: tool for so many other arguments and so many other fights,
Speaker 1: whether it is getting midwives competition out of the picture,
Speaker 1: or whether it is having more control over women and
Speaker 1: their bodies. Um, I think that aspect of it is
Speaker 1: is pretty pretty stunning and disgusting. And of course it's
Speaker 1: not just in the United States, where the abortion issue
Speaker 1: is far from settled. I mean we have listeners in
Speaker 1: Ireland who know this well. There's still no legal access
Speaker 1: over there to abortion on demand, and that law was
Speaker 1: recently held in Northern Ireland. Um there are six nations
Speaker 1: the Holy See, Malta, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Nicaragua and
Speaker 1: Chile that don't allow abortion under any circumstances. So regardless
Speaker 1: of where our listeners stand politically and morally on this issue,
Speaker 1: because I know that we have listeners who are pro
Speaker 1: choice and who are anti choice and anti abortion. Although
Speaker 1: you can be pro choice and anti abortion, those are
Speaker 1: you know, not mutually exclusive. I hope that what we've
Speaker 1: talked about has offered important historical context to just better
Speaker 1: understand what those politicized platforms really mean and what they
Speaker 1: mean to individual women's lives. Because I think a lot
Speaker 1: of us are so familiar with the imagery of coat hangers,
Speaker 1: and we know that these back alley abortions happened and
Speaker 1: that some terrible things went down own, but I don't
Speaker 1: think we really understand just how much is at stake
Speaker 1: with this entire reproductive rights issue, and so I do
Speaker 1: hope to hear from listeners. I'm interested to know whether
Speaker 1: they were as surprised by some of this history and
Speaker 1: this context as we were. So much of it was stunning,
Speaker 1: So much of it wasn't even really that surprising when
Speaker 1: you think about it, but just how gross it was
Speaker 1: to me that women seem to be these pawns in
Speaker 1: this constant, ongoing argument. So, listeners, mom stuff at how
Speaker 1: stuff Works dot Com is our email address. You can
Speaker 1: also tweet us at mom stuff podcast or message us
Speaker 1: on Facebook. And I also want to invite listeners who
Speaker 1: have had abortions. If you would like to share your
Speaker 1: story with us, either openly or anonymously, we are safe
Speaker 1: spaces to do that. Again. Our email addresses mom stuff
Speaker 1: at how Stuff Work, stuck um at mom Stuff podcast
Speaker 1: on Twitter, and you can also message us on Facebook,
Speaker 1: and we've got a couple of messages to share with
Speaker 1: you right now. I have a letter here from Katie
Speaker 1: in response to our Perfectionism episode. She says that she
Speaker 1: put the episode on while she was getting ready for
Speaker 1: work one morning, and by the end she found herself
Speaker 1: in tears. So, Katie writes, I've never used the word
Speaker 1: perfectionists to describe myself prior to listening to Little Miss Perfect.
Speaker 1: I hadn't ever really even thought about the concept of perfectionism,
Speaker 1: but each point you touched on during the show hit
Speaker 1: closer and closer to home, starting with the discussion of
Speaker 1: parental influence. My parents always held us to very high
Speaker 1: standards in every aspect of our lives, which I don't
Speaker 1: necessarily consider to be a bad thing, as they only
Speaker 1: wanted the best for us. But you mentioned one key
Speaker 1: factor that my parents unfortunately did not take into account
Speaker 1: balancing those high expectations with loving support and enthusiasm. My
Speaker 1: siblings and I were under immense pressure to achieve academically,
Speaker 1: succeed socially, and maintain the appearance of a perfect family
Speaker 1: life while receiving little to no reassurance that we were
Speaker 1: smart enough, good enough, pretty enough, or that we would
Speaker 1: be loved no matter our failures or shortcomings. As crazy
Speaker 1: as it may sound, I didn't fully realize the impact
Speaker 1: that had in my adult life until I heard the show.
Speaker 1: I'm painfully aware of my habit of procrastination, but I've
Speaker 1: never really made the connection with the concept of perfectionism.
Speaker 1: I realized I tend to put things off when I'm
Speaker 1: concerned the outcome may not be perfect, especially creative pursuits.
Speaker 1: I've always loved writing, and I've made several attempts at
Speaker 1: blogging and submitting articles for publication, but I always end
Speaker 1: up leaving each project i'm finished. I now know this
Speaker 1: is due to the inherent imperfections and potential for harsh criticism.
Speaker 1: I love the idea you presented to soothe these anxieties,
Speaker 1: like letting those worries play all the way out with
Speaker 1: the what if prompt. Usually, if I continue to think
Speaker 1: about what might happen next if I do or don't
Speaker 1: do something, my worries shrink because I can hear how
Speaker 1: insignificant the worries actually are. This has helped me follow
Speaker 1: through with starting and maintaining a blog. By far, the
Speaker 1: biggest shot concerning perfectionism came in the research statistics about
Speaker 1: women who exhibit perfectionist tendencies being much more likely to cheat.
Speaker 1: I married young and made every possible effort to construct
Speaker 1: the illusion of a perfect life and marriage. When my
Speaker 1: sex life with my husband became less than perfect, I
Speaker 1: looked outside of our marriage to find the idea of
Speaker 1: sexual perfection. Eventually, we decided to divorce, and I struggled
Speaker 1: immensely with the fallout surrounding the implosion of my seemingly
Speaker 1: perfect life. I couldn't stand the idea of my imperfections
Speaker 1: being broadcast in such a public and painful way. After
Speaker 1: seeing a therapist for well over a year now, I
Speaker 1: had yet to make the connection between my being unfaithful
Speaker 1: and my pensiant for perfection. But thanks to Kristen and Caroline,
Speaker 1: I've reached a deeper understanding of myself. I'm optimistic that
Speaker 1: this new awareness of myself will help me to live
Speaker 1: a more fulfilling and balanced life. So truly thank you.
Speaker 1: I am now a devoted Sminthy listener. I think what
Speaker 1: you two are doing is so important and meaningful. Keep
Speaker 1: up the good work. Well, thank you so much, Katie,
Speaker 1: and I've got a letter here from Naomi. She writes,
Speaker 1: your recent episode about lube has brought to my and
Speaker 1: a difficult time in my life. I was about five
Speaker 1: weeks postpartum after a csarian birth. My then husband was
Speaker 1: anxious to resume marital relations after our son was born. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: though I was ready, it felt like daggers. Turns out
Speaker 1: that breastfeeding thanks to hormones can lead to a thinning
Speaker 1: of the vaginal wall, or so my research said, and
Speaker 1: it's quite common. The answer is lots and lots of lube.
Speaker 1: I know that I and many other new moms I've
Speaker 1: spoken with have a lot of fear that first time
Speaker 1: after a baby's born, in particular if they had a
Speaker 1: difficult or traumatic birth experience. Having it feel like daggers
Speaker 1: compounds that fear exponentially and can lead to more trauma psychologically.
Speaker 1: I heartily wish that someone would have told me to
Speaker 1: include lube that first time. I can't tell you all
Speaker 1: the pain it would have saved me and my husband
Speaker 1: if we'd only known, and lube is such an easy answer.
Speaker 1: I hope you ladies will pass this on well. Naomi,
Speaker 1: your wish is granted and listeners. For all of your stories,
Speaker 1: you can send them to us. Mom stuff at how
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com is your email address and for
Speaker 1: links all of our social media as well as all
Speaker 1: of our blogs, videos, and podcasts with our sources so
Speaker 1: you can read more of the delightful history of abortion,
Speaker 1: head on over to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com.
Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com.