Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. This is part two
Speaker 1: of our two part series on the Infamous, the Notorious,
Speaker 1: the scoundrel Tastic Dan Sickles, uh no, this guy is.
Speaker 1: This guy is a real um freemium awful. I'm thinking
Speaker 1: of pos premium awful swide. I'm gonna say a premium
Speaker 1: uh oh awful like I said, like goods, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say premium awful. Spoo own mam. We paused. We paused
Speaker 1: before recording the second part of this to just talk
Speaker 1: about spoon Man, rocket around the Christmas Tree earworms for
Speaker 1: everyone who wants an earworm, we got you covered. Spoon
Speaker 1: Man nothing to do with this. I don't even know
Speaker 1: what it's about. I think it's about a dude who
Speaker 1: would like do that handbone thing with spoons, like somewhere
Speaker 1: in Seattle he was the spoon Man, and Chris corneloig
Speaker 1: is like, I'm gonna write a song about that guy,
Speaker 1: and then the rest is history. Feel the rhythm with
Speaker 1: your hands, come together with your hands, like I think
Speaker 1: that's literally as simple as it sounds. He's coming together
Speaker 1: with his hands and the spoons to make the sound
Speaker 1: of the jingle and jangle and spoons and it will
Speaker 1: in some way save you. So this this has nothing
Speaker 1: to do a part two of Dan's Sickles. Um. This
Speaker 1: is just an example of the weird conversations we have
Speaker 1: between recordings, especially on a Friday at the end of
Speaker 1: the day when we're all a bit punchy. And hey,
Speaker 1: you know what I just realized, fellas, it's a long weekend.
Speaker 1: Long weekend, that's true. Oh and uh shout out to
Speaker 1: super producer Casey Pegram who does a wonderful spoon Man rendition.
Speaker 1: By the way, I am, I am in awe. Uh.
Speaker 1: Let's go back with Dan. So we mentioned that Dan's
Speaker 1: philandering and his his murder and his trial were not
Speaker 1: the end of his Scalie Wagg's tail. He did even
Speaker 1: more dirt bag stuff during the Civil War. Well you
Speaker 1: know what they say, Ben, one good scandal deserves another.
Speaker 1: Um and uh and and sickles that you know, he
Speaker 1: believed in this adage wholeheartedly. He was given the post
Speaker 1: of commander in the Union Army. At least he was
Speaker 1: on the Union side. Let's just give him that as
Speaker 1: a somewhat positive During the Civil War, um, and he
Speaker 1: was there at the beginning of the Battle of Gettysburg.
Speaker 1: His commander, a general George Meade, who you uh civil
Speaker 1: war buffs out there may have heard of um. He
Speaker 1: told Sickles to hold fast his position. But you know what,
Speaker 1: Sickles isn't one to to take orders for many general.
Speaker 1: You know, he's a man, He's a man of a
Speaker 1: great resolve, uh, the master of his own destiny. So
Speaker 1: he decides he has a better idea. He wants to
Speaker 1: move his men to higher ground. That seems like a
Speaker 1: pretty legit military tactic, despite you know, going against the
Speaker 1: direct order. To be fair, he did ask for permission, um.
Speaker 1: But when he didn't hear anything back. You know, he's
Speaker 1: not one to wait. You know, history time waits for
Speaker 1: no man has another adage that Sickles like to go by.
Speaker 1: So he didn't hear back. How long did he wait though? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean that may be lost history, Ben. What do
Speaker 1: you think couldn't have been long? Yeah? I have this
Speaker 1: image of him saying, Okay, send him to ask and
Speaker 1: then let's go move. Yeah. It's like basically a formality,
Speaker 1: you know, or courtesy. So he decides he's going to
Speaker 1: go ahead and do it, and do it anyway. So
Speaker 1: he moved his troops without permission, essentially, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: rejecting a direct order. This is worthy of treason court
Speaker 1: martial at the very least. Yeah, it's disobeying a direct order.
Speaker 1: Here's what happened, Here's why the general wanted him to
Speaker 1: stay there. Uh, this movement took his group out of
Speaker 1: line with the rest of the Union troops. And as
Speaker 1: quoted in the excellent PBS article, Thomas Kennelly, the author
Speaker 1: of American Scoundrel, a two thousand two biography of Sickles,
Speaker 1: explains it this way. He says, moving out a line
Speaker 1: with the rest of the Union troops could have opened
Speaker 1: up a near fatal gap in the line, meaning that
Speaker 1: the enemy could penetrate defenses right in a way that
Speaker 1: could turn the tide of battle. However, Sickles still has
Speaker 1: some defenders in this bit of history who say that
Speaker 1: this move forced the enemy to in gage, and it
Speaker 1: required Union troops to support the open gap and occupy
Speaker 1: the Roundtops, two hills near the line, and that this later,
Speaker 1: quite possibly through accident, turned out to be a very
Speaker 1: strategic point in the battle. So the question really is
Speaker 1: a matter of whether Sickles singlehandedly almost one or lost
Speaker 1: this battle. That this enormously important conflict during the Civil War,
Speaker 1: and historians debate it today. But he did not get
Speaker 1: away from the war clean. He lost his leg with
Speaker 1: his lower leg was shredded by a cannonball at Gettysburg
Speaker 1: and uh, hot dog man, it came at the right time.
Speaker 1: He did not get court martialed for disobeying this order
Speaker 1: because he was wounded and he had an amputated leg
Speaker 1: and people didn't like the optics of punishing a wounded veteran,
Speaker 1: that's right. Uh, So he kind of was elevated even
Speaker 1: higher to the status of a war hero. Uh. And
Speaker 1: you know he was always known as a bit of
Speaker 1: a show boat. Um. He decided in in in show
Speaker 1: body fashion, to donate his lost leg to an army
Speaker 1: medical museum, and he would take women there actually on dates,
Speaker 1: which is an odd flex um. But you know, I
Speaker 1: gotta appreciate his his his houtzpah uh to to see
Speaker 1: his remains, especially on the anniversary of of the amputation.
Speaker 1: And side note, the National Museum of Health and Medicine
Speaker 1: still has the bones on display today. Come away with
Speaker 1: me your vivacious minks, let us regard my leg in
Speaker 1: the museum. In the museum, I mean, yeah, there's not
Speaker 1: many people that can take someone to a museum and
Speaker 1: show them literally a piece of their uh a former
Speaker 1: piece of their body. But so you think he'd hit
Speaker 1: peak scoundrel. Not so. After the war ended, you know,
Speaker 1: he he'd solidified his reputation not as a scoundrel at all,
Speaker 1: but apparently as a war hero. So Sickles actually is
Speaker 1: put in charge of a military district that was established
Speaker 1: in the South. I assumed to make sure those naughty
Speaker 1: Southerners weren't like harboring, like secret slaves or anything. But
Speaker 1: his wife died of tuberculosis that year at the age
Speaker 1: of thirty one. Uh And that was the same year
Speaker 1: that Ulysses Grant appointed Sickles the ambassador of Spain, where
Speaker 1: he continued to add to his lothario resume by carrying
Speaker 1: on a sorted affair with the deposed Spanish queen is
Speaker 1: a bell of a second uh and and and it
Speaker 1: was from this uh dalliance I guess that he earned
Speaker 1: the nickname the Yankee King of Spain. Yes, yes, a
Speaker 1: lecture a libertine like Cassa nova h After the affair,
Speaker 1: he marries one of the queen's attendance. This does not
Speaker 1: strike all members of the court as a super cool
Speaker 1: thing to do. For all members of the government, I
Speaker 1: should say, one Secretary of State, Hamilton's fish accused Sickles
Speaker 1: of quote. This is a quote using child virgins for
Speaker 1: the purpose of depravity. And and that's the Secretary of
Speaker 1: State of US government. And so he forces Sickles resignation.
Speaker 1: Sickles bums around Paris for a few years, and he
Speaker 1: returns to the United States in eighteen seventy nine. I
Speaker 1: want to step back there because in a previous episode
Speaker 1: we talked about the anti spitting campaign to prevent the
Speaker 1: spread of tuberculosis. In this story, we just had someone
Speaker 1: expire from tuberculosis, just underline how real and widespread this was.
Speaker 1: But somehow it did not touch Old Danny s and
Speaker 1: he is still regarded as a war hero. So in
Speaker 1: the Nate eight nineties, he's appointed to head the New
Speaker 1: York State Monuments Commission. It puts him in charge of
Speaker 1: erecting monuments to the Civil War throughout New York. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, you'd think this would be like a
Speaker 1: kind of like, ah, I don't know, a sun setting
Speaker 1: kind of retirement, kind of like you know, cushy career,
Speaker 1: and that also has some prominence attached to it and
Speaker 1: some prestige uh to kind of you know, maybe this
Speaker 1: would be the end of to his dog days, but
Speaker 1: that's not our boys sickles. He knew who he was,
Speaker 1: so in nineteen twelve, officials found twenty eight thousand dollars
Speaker 1: missing from commission accounts UH and arrest He was ninety
Speaker 1: three at this point, ninety three, and so they arrest him.
Speaker 1: But he he he knew he could sell U catch
Speaker 1: up popsicle to a man in white gloves, and he
Speaker 1: uh didn't serve a single day in prison because he
Speaker 1: was able to essentially charm his way out of this situation. Too.
Speaker 1: He did something very similar to a certain uh US
Speaker 1: president as outgoing attempts at fundraising, where he raised money
Speaker 1: to essentially like almost like under the guise of, like,
Speaker 1: you know, help me clear my name, but essentially it
Speaker 1: just went directly into his pockets. Right, Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't give everybody a sense of how much money we're talking.
Speaker 1: You know, we love a good inflation calculatory eight thousand
Speaker 1: in eight nine, he's equivalent to He's equivalent equivalent to
Speaker 1: uh seven nine six thousand, three hundred and forty three dollars,
Speaker 1: so almost a million bucks. Bold and daring. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: that's so that's a lot of money to raise for
Speaker 1: this guy. People love it though, and uh, the guy,
Speaker 1: as we said, never faces consequence for this. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: didn't seem to. I mean, he did lose his leg
Speaker 1: whish you know, I wouldn't wish that on anybody really,
Speaker 1: So that's definitely a consequence, not a direct concept. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's a karmic consequence, but even that he was able
Speaker 1: to kind of parlay into like getting more play from
Speaker 1: unsuspecting women. And would you believe that when he passed away,
Speaker 1: uh two years later of natural causes, mind you, he
Speaker 1: was buried in Arlington National Cemetery with a with a
Speaker 1: war heroes burial. Uh yeah, well people consider him a
Speaker 1: war hero. However, there there are other lasting consequences of
Speaker 1: this guy's um Motley career. You know, he's considered heroic
Speaker 1: by some, he's considered a criminal and a murderer by others. Uh,
Speaker 1: opinions on him very widely. But he made some marks
Speaker 1: in history. We talked about the insanity defense earlier in
Speaker 1: the episode, but let's go let's go back to that
Speaker 1: a little bit. Since his plea, since he became the
Speaker 1: first person to get away with this, many many, many
Speaker 1: other people have tried to use the insanity defense. Jeffrey Dahmer,
Speaker 1: John Hinckley, as you mentioned earlier, John Wayne Gacy, ed Geane,
Speaker 1: and John DuPont, who you will remember as the multimillionaire
Speaker 1: who murdered an Olympic wrestler that he thought was part
Speaker 1: of a global conspiracy to kill him. What was the movie?
Speaker 1: But isn't Steve Carrell in a movie about that? Fox Catcher?
Speaker 1: Fox Catcher, and all of this really wouldn't have been
Speaker 1: possible without Sickles. And you know, I think it's clear
Speaker 1: that this was absolutely a legal ploy with no uh
Speaker 1: sand to it at all. The man knew exactly what
Speaker 1: he was doing and plotted this for days, and yet
Speaker 1: the jury seemed to buy it. Uh So this is
Speaker 1: a legacy of lies, yea in this case. And of
Speaker 1: course we're not saying there's no such thing as being temporarily,
Speaker 1: you know, mentally unfit, but for this to be the
Speaker 1: first one basically trumped up and invented for this guy's benefit. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, of course, there there are other examples where
Speaker 1: it could well be true. I still am a little
Speaker 1: skeptical of it in general as an argument. But but yeah,
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit more about the evolution of
Speaker 1: of this argument and where it came from. Well, right now,
Speaker 1: According to the National Institute of Mental Health, Uh, you're
Speaker 1: going to see this defense invoked in a very small
Speaker 1: number of cases, like less than one percent of felony cases.
Speaker 1: And of that less than one percent of felony cases
Speaker 1: where temporary insanity is used as a defense, it is successful,
Speaker 1: maybe a little less than one out of four times. Uh.
Speaker 1: And also, you know, anybody who's got a grand scheme
Speaker 1: to get away with crime by pleading tipperary insanity, please
Speaker 1: do remember, even if you are that one out of
Speaker 1: four of that less than one percent who successfully pleads this,
Speaker 1: you will probably be institutionalized for years or even decades.
Speaker 1: You're still getting locked up somewhere, is what we're saying.
Speaker 1: It's true. Uh, Ed Gain Um, I believe got off
Speaker 1: on one set of charges using that plea and then
Speaker 1: he was eventually convicted for being criminally insane. And uh
Speaker 1: and you know was committed. You know, he didn't get
Speaker 1: the death penalty. Uh, he was found to be not
Speaker 1: a sound mind. And he you know, lived the rest
Speaker 1: of his life out in a facility of that sort. Um.
Speaker 1: Another thing is interesting about about Sickles is the way
Speaker 1: he just kind of like like wedged himself into these
Speaker 1: like elite corners of high society. Uh, you know, in
Speaker 1: places that you wouldn't expect. In eighteen fifty three, he
Speaker 1: was what's is a position called the Corporation Council for
Speaker 1: the City of New York, and he was responsible for
Speaker 1: acquiring the land that is now Central Park, probably one
Speaker 1: of New York City's most famous features. And he described
Speaker 1: the process, uh, of of setting out to form a
Speaker 1: consulting committee of twenty his words, twenty four gentlemen prominent
Speaker 1: in our municipal social life and with whom I was
Speaker 1: in the habit of conferring upon all questions of importance.
Speaker 1: So this committee is led by Sickles. They select the
Speaker 1: site for what will later become Central Park. And they
Speaker 1: pushed for this location. Uh. This was a this was
Speaker 1: a response to the original plan, which had been to
Speaker 1: put the park in a much much smaller plot or
Speaker 1: site in a different area of New York, but they
Speaker 1: said this growing city needed a larger park. That was
Speaker 1: Sickle's position. Also, before you think this is a moment
Speaker 1: of nobility in in his life, uh, it was very
Speaker 1: much a matter of self interest, the admiraltier motive. You see.
Speaker 1: Sickles had bought building lots near this new site, and
Speaker 1: he knew that if they could just get the park
Speaker 1: built there once it opened, the value of that property
Speaker 1: would skyrocket. Uh. And then after he successfully did this,
Speaker 1: he resigned from his committee post and went on to
Speaker 1: become UH Secretary to the U s Ligation in London.
Speaker 1: So he had he had a plan, he had a
Speaker 1: scheme he did. Indeed, it seems like this guy's whole
Speaker 1: life was a series of plans and schemes, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: and he also just kind of had a reputation as
Speaker 1: being a particularly cool customer. You know. He's a sort
Speaker 1: of a James Bond esque figure, except without the spying stuff,
Speaker 1: just more of the martini and the womanizing bits. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, again, he did lose his leg in battle.
Speaker 1: Let's let's give the guy credit work credits due. But
Speaker 1: there you know this guy. This type of figure in
Speaker 1: history often gets associated with almost like larger than life
Speaker 1: mythological kind of features. Um And there is a story
Speaker 1: of him when he was escorted off of the battle
Speaker 1: ground at Gettysburg Um where he had lost his leg,
Speaker 1: chomping on a cigar um and and and saying men
Speaker 1: hold your ground, um And that you know has become
Speaker 1: part of the kind of mythos of the second day
Speaker 1: of of Gettysburg. H. W. A. Swanberg's biography Sickles the Incredible,
Speaker 1: published in nineteen fifty six, is a big part of
Speaker 1: what has caused this kind of little piece of uh,
Speaker 1: you know, potentially, I'm not quite sure how much truth
Speaker 1: there is to it, but this piece of Lord to
Speaker 1: kind of propagate, right, according to Swanburgh. He says in
Speaker 1: his book Sickles quote seemed only moderately upset and was
Speaker 1: not one to allow this moment to pass without making
Speaker 1: full use of its dramatic value. Being informed that a
Speaker 1: rumor had gone around that he was mortally wounded, he
Speaker 1: requested stretcher bearer to remove a cigar from his inside
Speaker 1: pocket and light it for him. He was carried away
Speaker 1: with the havana projecting dauntally from his mouth. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a great movie moment, right, But the reason it's a
Speaker 1: great movie moment is because it may not be true.
Speaker 1: A lot of historians just sort of took this lovely
Speaker 1: image and ran with it, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: instead of proving whether or not was true. Uh, contemporary
Speaker 1: sources are not so certain that it is. Uh. There's
Speaker 1: one very important fact here. If the cigar incident actually happened,
Speaker 1: Sickles own writing his own accounts, never mention it. His
Speaker 1: battlefield performance in general became uh, the object of some
Speaker 1: intense scrutiny. And you know, think about it. If he's
Speaker 1: building a career, if he's so sensitive to his public reputation,
Speaker 1: if he literally takes women on dates to look at
Speaker 1: his leg, wouldn't he have talked about his like heroic
Speaker 1: stogy smoking moments. I don't know. It's not proof that
Speaker 1: it didn't happen, but we do know what happens when
Speaker 1: people have injuries of this extreme degree. They'll go into shock,
Speaker 1: They'll lose a lot of blood. So Sickles may not
Speaker 1: have may not even remember how he was acting when
Speaker 1: he was carried away from the conflict. We have proof
Speaker 1: that uh, Sickles in the in the time leading up
Speaker 1: to and immediately after his amputation, we do know that
Speaker 1: he probably that he did chief on a couple of stogies.
Speaker 1: He smoked a cigar too, But it was only in
Speaker 1: later years, after speaking with other veterans, did he start
Speaker 1: like styling on this. So the accounts of from when
Speaker 1: it would have originally happened, Sickles never mentioned it. But
Speaker 1: later in life he suddenly remembers this story and he
Speaker 1: talks about how he had someone put a lit cigar
Speaker 1: in his mouth and carry him down the battle line
Speaker 1: to encourage and talk to my men. Uh. But you know,
Speaker 1: memories a funny thing. It just seems weird that you
Speaker 1: would remember that so much later and never ever mentioned
Speaker 1: it before. So what do you think it's a myth?
Speaker 1: Or do you think it really happens. I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: it seems pretty implausible. It seems like a good story,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But I mean, surely if
Speaker 1: you've you've lost a leg, wouldn't you probably be passed
Speaker 1: out from shock or something. I don't know that you'd
Speaker 1: have the wherewithalts of like you know, puff on a
Speaker 1: black and mild or when now is a haven. This
Speaker 1: is much nicer. But still, no, I do not think
Speaker 1: this happened, Ben, I'm gonna go ahead and lay it
Speaker 1: on the line. I do not think this happened. Uh,
Speaker 1: we do know that he went to seances. We're just
Speaker 1: throwing these sickles facts out. You bury the lead there,
Speaker 1: didn't you been not just any seances? My friend, he
Speaker 1: was getting real cozy with one Mary Todd Lincoln. You
Speaker 1: may have heard of her, married to one of the
Speaker 1: great statesmen of our time, President Abraham Lincoln, UM. And
Speaker 1: there was even speculation that they were a little more
Speaker 1: than just seance pals, right right. Uh. He was a
Speaker 1: frequent visitor to the Lincoln White House, and he was
Speaker 1: one of Mary Todd Lincoln's favorite people. Observers who knew
Speaker 1: of the man's reputation were said to have watched in
Speaker 1: disgust as he called on her at all hours. He
Speaker 1: would be your escort when the president was unavailable, the
Speaker 1: same way that his old friend and victim he had
Speaker 1: escorted his own wife, Teresa years ago. You know, this
Speaker 1: makes me think I wouldn't it be funny if there
Speaker 1: was like kind of a reimagining of pulp fiction where
Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln as Marcellus Wallace and uh uh, Mary Todd
Speaker 1: Lincoln as Mio Wallace and Dan Sickles is the guy
Speaker 1: who was secretly giving foot massages. And then Lincoln finds
Speaker 1: out and he's like, you don't touch another man's wife's
Speaker 1: feet as a very erotic act, and then he throws
Speaker 1: Dan Sickles from a top story white house window. Uh.
Speaker 1: That would have been a really cool and to this
Speaker 1: absolute scoundrel's life, but unfortunately that is not the way
Speaker 1: it played out. No, no, uh. He did attend a
Speaker 1: seance with Mary Todd Lincoln on February sixty four. Mary
Speaker 1: Todd Lincoln supposedly took him with her to test the
Speaker 1: alleged powers of a medium named Neddie Colburn Maynard. She
Speaker 1: identified him as crooked Knife, which is a very loose
Speaker 1: if you're being charitable, that can be seen as a
Speaker 1: very loose translation of his surname Sickles. Crooked knife. That
Speaker 1: that almost is like that sounds like the kind of
Speaker 1: thing you'd uses like a coded way of referring to,
Speaker 1: like an operative or an informant, like deep throat or
Speaker 1: something like that. Crooked Knife also strikes me as and
Speaker 1: what could be a nickname for someone's little Australia. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a disturbing nickname. Though. We want to end on
Speaker 1: a lovely little lesson in pettiness by none other than
Speaker 1: Samuel Clemens, better known perhaps as Mark Twain, fantastic writer
Speaker 1: and uh fantastic storyteller, also known for his uh savage wit.
Speaker 1: He's kind of a predecessor to the host of late
Speaker 1: night comedy shows. You know, Uh, every everybody knew that
Speaker 1: sickles post war Uh made this point of leaving his
Speaker 1: artificial leg at home whenever he would go do veterans
Speaker 1: stuff because of the image it depicted. And this prompted
Speaker 1: Mark Twain to say, the general valued his lost leg
Speaker 1: above the one that has left. I am perfectly sure
Speaker 1: that if he had to part with either of them,
Speaker 1: he would part with the one that he has got.
Speaker 1: And that's actually I have it's from his autobiography. That's
Speaker 1: where Mark Twain is saying that. And uh, that's a
Speaker 1: good book too. But it's very very long, it's not
Speaker 1: very edited. Well that's in Yeah, you gotta have an editor,
Speaker 1: Mark Twain. Um. But yeah, this goes to show what
Speaker 1: a ZEITGEISTI figure this dude was that Mark Twain felt
Speaker 1: the need to give his hot take about his relationship
Speaker 1: with his lost limb. And here our tail draws to
Speaker 1: a close. Daniel Sickles has been called a scoundrel. Some
Speaker 1: people called him a war hero. And one thing's for sure,
Speaker 1: a lot of people who lived at the same time
Speaker 1: that he did found him to be an extraordinarily likable,
Speaker 1: if untrustworthy person, which I think is it's kind of
Speaker 1: a definition of his scoundrel. What do you think, man, Oh,
Speaker 1: I want to know what's super producer? Casey Pegram things.
Speaker 1: He's a land of contrast. He uh, he lived to
Speaker 1: live the life. He did live a life, Casey on
Speaker 1: the case that's true, Casey, I mean, you know, like
Speaker 1: it was, it was a dog eat dog world back
Speaker 1: in those days. You had to make your own way. Uh,
Speaker 1: and you gotta you know, you gotta crack a few
Speaker 1: eggs to make a delicious um cuckled the omelet um.
Speaker 1: Because the thing is, I know, I know, not good.
Speaker 1: I would say it's still a dog eat dog world.
Speaker 1: It certainly is. Been, it certainly is. I guess all
Speaker 1: I'm saying is the little blur by Red at the
Speaker 1: top of episode one from PBS about how we assume
Speaker 1: that the moral fabric of society has just gotten you know,
Speaker 1: more and more unraveled over time. I would argue that
Speaker 1: that is not the case, that people have been depraved
Speaker 1: since the beginning of time. Um, And I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's necessarily like a better or worse situation at all,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that's a true The idea we
Speaker 1: have of Victorian morality, as we've mentioned in previous episodes,
Speaker 1: is somewhat mythical. It's not it's not entirely based in fact.
Speaker 1: Oh my cats, sorry everybody. Uh, our episode day has
Speaker 1: been interrupted not by Jonathan Strickland ak the Quister, but
Speaker 1: by Dr Vankman. Dr Vankman, he's actually in frame this time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've moved him off, but you know, to your point
Speaker 1: casey Uh. It reminds me of the Walt Whitman quote
Speaker 1: from uh the Song of Myself? Right? Do I contradict myself?
Speaker 1: Very well? Then I contradict myself. I am large. I
Speaker 1: contain multitudes. I think we all do. We're so many
Speaker 1: different people over the course of our lives, over the
Speaker 1: course of a given day. Um, maybe we should hesitate
Speaker 1: to Judge Daniel Sickles, I don't know, man, I still
Speaker 1: don't like him. I don't. I don't think he's a
Speaker 1: good person. No, no, I don't think he's a good person. Here.
Speaker 1: I think he's probably one of history is great uh miscreants.
Speaker 1: But you know what, he makes for a great story.
Speaker 1: And we hope that you enjoyed this two parter of
Speaker 1: ridiculous History. Huge thanks to you, as always, Casey super producer,
Speaker 1: Casey Pegrin. That is thanks to Alex Williams who composed
Speaker 1: this track. The kids would call it a bob. Thanks
Speaker 1: as always to the one and only Gabe Lousier. Thanks
Speaker 1: to Eve's Jeff Coat, host of our pure podcast UH
Speaker 1: this day in History Class thinks, of course, to Christopher
Speaker 1: Hasciotis and Jonathan Strickland, a k a. The Quister. Jonathan,
Speaker 1: if you're listening, it seems that you may have a
Speaker 1: challenger to your position of ridiculous histories, top scoundrel. Hey,
Speaker 1: if you want to find us on the internet, you
Speaker 1: can do so on social media. Why not join our
Speaker 1: Facebook group Ridiculous Historians. Just name a name, any part
Speaker 1: of the show, a topic, whatever. Don't worry about what
Speaker 1: the question actually is just let us know that you're
Speaker 1: a human person, that you actually know what the show is,
Speaker 1: and you're in lots of good memes sharing and conversation
Speaker 1: from our fellow ridiculous historians. You can also find us
Speaker 1: on Instagram, uh, Twitter, and all that. Honestly, the most
Speaker 1: active accounts you're gonna follow are going to be our
Speaker 1: individual accounts as human people. I am at how Now
Speaker 1: Noel Brown on Instagram. If you have questions about this
Speaker 1: episode or any other episodes, feel free to hit me
Speaker 1: up directly. I am at Ben Bollon on Instagram. You
Speaker 1: can find me at Ben Bolen hs W on Twitter.
Speaker 1: I believe that that's our show today, Casey Nol, thank
Speaker 1: you guys so much. I hope everyone has a wonderful
Speaker 1: long weekend and does not get shot with a cannon,
Speaker 1: specifically talking to you, Casey, watch out for those cannons.
Speaker 1: I'll be on the look out. I'll see you next
Speaker 1: time Folix. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.