Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're
Speaker 1: listening to Software Radio Special Operations, military news and straight
Speaker 1: talk with the guys and the community. Hey everyone, it's
Speaker 1: me Steve Blastruri, host a Software a Radio. I want
Speaker 1: you to know about this new app to how we
Speaker 1: reach Coaching Tool downloaded and learn how to reach out
Speaker 1: to friends going through a really hard time. Thanks to
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Speaker 1: gov that's r E A c H dot gov to
Speaker 1: learn the steps everyone can take to prevent suicide. Check
Speaker 1: out to how we Reach Coaching Tool today. Thank you
Speaker 1: very much. Hello again everyone, Welcome back to softwareup Radio,
Speaker 1: softwareup Radio, on time on Target. We have a very
Speaker 1: special guest with this on this week's podcast. UM we
Speaker 1: have Dr Chloe Carmichael, who's the author of a new
Speaker 1: book that's out Nervous Energy Harness The Power of Your Anxiety.
Speaker 1: Dr Carmichael graduated with honors from Columbia University. She also
Speaker 1: holds a doctorate in clinical psychology from Long Island University
Speaker 1: and she runs a private practice I believe out of
Speaker 1: New York City. UM, and she was our believe she's
Speaker 1: still is an adjective college professor. So she's been on
Speaker 1: VH one Inside Edition, ABC Nightline Nancy Grace, which uh
Speaker 1: is a popular show in this household. So UM. But
Speaker 1: before we get into and uh the podcast today and
Speaker 1: welcome Dr Carmichael, I just wanted to talk about the
Speaker 1: issue we're gonna be talking about today is anxiety and stress.
Speaker 1: And you know that's kind of a dirty word for
Speaker 1: a lot of our population in the United States, but
Speaker 1: you know, Special Operations UH veterans and a lot of
Speaker 1: our readers and listeners are you know, from the Special
Speaker 1: operations community. We kind of welcome stress into our environment
Speaker 1: because we always try to aim higher than we perceive
Speaker 1: our limits are. And that's one of the things that
Speaker 1: you know, one of the tenants of Special Operations. But
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes even the higher up you get and
Speaker 1: the more ranks that you achieve, you know, the more
Speaker 1: you kind of put your emotions aside, so that can
Speaker 1: lead to issues. So with that in mind, I want
Speaker 1: to welcome Dr car Michael to our podcast. Dr Carl Michael,
Speaker 1: thank you very much for taking the time with us today.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Steve. And I also just really want to
Speaker 1: start by thinking your audience, because you know, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have the freedom to just you know, write books like
Speaker 1: this if it weren't for strong men and women like
Speaker 1: your audience that are fighting for our freedoms. And so
Speaker 1: I just want to thank everybody for for your service
Speaker 1: and for making it possible for me to be able
Speaker 1: to just sit in a comfortable office and write books.
Speaker 1: So I really appreciate that well, and we appreciate the
Speaker 1: work that professionals like you do because you you're in
Speaker 1: the business of helping people. So um, you know, with
Speaker 1: that in mind, um, let's get into a brief you know, biography,
Speaker 1: tell our listeners about you and a little bit about
Speaker 1: yourself and how you get into you know, becoming a psychologist. Sure,
Speaker 1: so I don't want to totally lose your audience here,
Speaker 1: but okay, I started off as a yoga teacher, and
Speaker 1: I joke about losing your audience because I imagine that
Speaker 1: you know, you guys are all, you know, super tough
Speaker 1: and everything. But um, you know, I'm coming from a
Speaker 1: different walk of life here. But I do think that
Speaker 1: there's some overlaps, right. So I started as a yoga teacher,
Speaker 1: and I think we all know it's good to keep ourselves,
Speaker 1: you know, fit and limber and all those things. And
Speaker 1: as we all know, yoga also has a big meditation component.
Speaker 1: And I know that your audience totally understands, as you said,
Speaker 1: the mental game of stress, right, And so that part
Speaker 1: actually got more interesting for me than the yoga. And
Speaker 1: so that's why I ended up going to get a
Speaker 1: PhD in clinical psychology and open my office in New York. Never,
Speaker 1: you know, I thought I was going to write a book,
Speaker 1: or I thought I was going to hire people or anything.
Speaker 1: I thought I was just going to be a regular therapist.
Speaker 1: And I started, um really attracting more clients than I
Speaker 1: could even potentially really take care of because I was
Speaker 1: doing something a little different. A lot of therapists will
Speaker 1: just ask you, how do you feel about that, tell
Speaker 1: me about your mother, you know, blah blah blah, Whereas
Speaker 1: what I was doing was I was really saying, look,
Speaker 1: you know, it almost doesn't matter why we're quote messed
Speaker 1: up or struggling. What matters is how to fix it,
Speaker 1: you know, And yes, we need to understand the origins
Speaker 1: in order to have a good fix. But let's keep
Speaker 1: the emphasis on the actual fix, right. And so I
Speaker 1: was getting a lot of very good results and getting
Speaker 1: you know, referrals over referrals. I had to hire um
Speaker 1: a bunch of therapists as well, just to take the overflow.
Speaker 1: I ended up joining Entrepreneurs Organization. I mentioned that because
Speaker 1: your founder, Brandon Webb. Of course, that's that's where I met.
Speaker 1: Brandon is add Entrepreneurs Organization, and his you know stuff
Speaker 1: about mastering fear actually really clicked with what I was
Speaker 1: doing with nervous energy. This idea that, um, we have
Speaker 1: a little stress, we have a little anxiety, but that
Speaker 1: actually stimulates us to give us energy, to keep us
Speaker 1: on point, to bring our a game. And my book
Speaker 1: really just teaches people how to optimize that and how
Speaker 1: to make sure we get all the benefits of that
Speaker 1: without burning ourselves out, so that we can do it
Speaker 1: the smart way. And that's that's where we are now,
Speaker 1: right and and in your book. And I didn't mean
Speaker 1: to chuckle earlier when you when you mentioned psycholo, because
Speaker 1: my my analysts with the that's the first question she
Speaker 1: asked me every time we have a meeting, So how
Speaker 1: are we failing today? So you know that's uh, that's
Speaker 1: a familiar one, but you know it's um, it's it's uh.
Speaker 1: It's definitely reading your book. You have some different techniques,
Speaker 1: and I guess they're all well not all, but some
Speaker 1: of them come from that yoga almost Buddhist uh lifestyle,
Speaker 1: it doesn't it. Yeah, So a big thing as we
Speaker 1: you know you may know in Buddhism is mindfulness. And
Speaker 1: again before everybody tunes out and things, that's just a
Speaker 1: bunch of new age wou stuff, let me say that
Speaker 1: another word for mindfulness, in my opinion, is meta cognition.
Speaker 1: Meta cognition that's where we're thinking about our thoughts. That's
Speaker 1: where we have that thirty thousand foot view of our brain,
Speaker 1: and that's when we start to realize like, oh I
Speaker 1: am you know, starting to go off into a self
Speaker 1: sabotaging you know thought line here. And when we have
Speaker 1: good medic cognition skills, that's when we have the awareness
Speaker 1: of how to kind of nudge our brain and guide
Speaker 1: ourselves and use the right techniques so that we just
Speaker 1: have to deal with a spark instead of a fire.
Speaker 1: In terms of over anxious stress reactions exactly. And you know,
Speaker 1: when I was reading your your chapter on medic cognition again,
Speaker 1: I think you know are I don't think you're losing
Speaker 1: our listeners at all because the v A now they
Speaker 1: teach a mindfulness class now for guys with PTSD, and
Speaker 1: it's called mind and Body and it it's not exactly
Speaker 1: the same as as how you mapped it out, but
Speaker 1: it's very similar. So I don't think you're losing anybody
Speaker 1: at all. But I wanted to jump backwards a little
Speaker 1: bit because you know the book Nervous Energy. Can you
Speaker 1: explain to our our listeners what nervous energy is? Yes,
Speaker 1: So the healthy function of anxiety is actually to stimulate
Speaker 1: preparation behaviors. Right, So when we get a little anxious,
Speaker 1: you know in Caveman times, maybe because we saw some
Speaker 1: tiger tracks and realize that there's a tiger around or whatever,
Speaker 1: and so that little kind of zing that we get,
Speaker 1: like oh um, that actually triggers a little bit of
Speaker 1: adrenaline and even actually some studies have shown actually makes
Speaker 1: our field of vision even become a little bit more
Speaker 1: narrow because from evolutionary times, we were literally just blocking
Speaker 1: out the noise and training our gaze upon whatever we
Speaker 1: really needed to focus on. So when we do get anxiety,
Speaker 1: we do get a little energy and our our body
Speaker 1: and mind go into a slightly different mode. Now that's
Speaker 1: what I call nervous energy. Emphasis on the word energy,
Speaker 1: because a lot of people they just register those early
Speaker 1: signs of anxiety and you say, oh, oh no, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna you know, I'm getting anxious. This is week. I'm
Speaker 1: going to block that out, whereas in fact it is
Speaker 1: actually a springboard for more energy. It says zing, it's
Speaker 1: a boost, it's a gift from Mother Nature that teaches us,
Speaker 1: gives us the tools to be a hundred and on
Speaker 1: point with that little extra go time energy. And that's
Speaker 1: what I call nervous energy. And then the subtitle is
Speaker 1: harness the power of your anxiety, because once we recognize
Speaker 1: we've got that little go time blue light special of
Speaker 1: energy happening, the next step is just to make sure
Speaker 1: we point it in the right direction and we don't
Speaker 1: waste it. We use it. Yeah, and can you explain
Speaker 1: to our listeners just a little bit of how we
Speaker 1: can harness that into instead of being a negative like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, you know, now I have all this
Speaker 1: falling on my head, we can harness send it into
Speaker 1: a positive m sure. So I've got nine techniques in
Speaker 1: the book, and you know, just to to pick one.
Speaker 1: For example, we'll call it the mental shortlist. There's a
Speaker 1: mental shortlist technique in the book, and we use the
Speaker 1: mental shortlist when suppose that you're getting those zings of
Speaker 1: energy and nervous energy about stuff that is no longer relevant, right,
Speaker 1: So that can happen to even people in regular civilian life,
Speaker 1: for you know, for those of your audience that are
Speaker 1: no longer you know, an active service, but you know,
Speaker 1: maybe apply for a job and you've got a lot
Speaker 1: of nervous energy about it, which is helping you while
Speaker 1: you're in the job interview process. But then once you
Speaker 1: press apply and it's done, then you're just sitting here
Speaker 1: with all this extra nervous energy and not really anywhere
Speaker 1: good to point it, right, because you already submitted the
Speaker 1: job application. And then our brains can almost be auto
Speaker 1: tracking out of habit onto that old topic of the
Speaker 1: job application, just out of habit. So what we do
Speaker 1: with the mental short list when we recognize through our
Speaker 1: good meta cognition skills that that's what's up, that's what's
Speaker 1: happening here. Then what we do is we pull out
Speaker 1: our good mental shortlist. The mental shortlist is where we
Speaker 1: come up with five things in advance that we know
Speaker 1: are going to be really good, productive, constructive uses of
Speaker 1: our time and energy. That can be anything from you know,
Speaker 1: thinking about your holiday, birthday, anniversary, gift shopping list and
Speaker 1: getting all that knocked out ahead of time. It can
Speaker 1: be you know, thinking about your week implans. It can
Speaker 1: be you know, going to the gym. I mean, it
Speaker 1: can be whatever you know is a good thing for
Speaker 1: you and your brain embody to be focused on. And
Speaker 1: the important thing is that you actually have to write
Speaker 1: it down because, as we all know, especially your audience
Speaker 1: more than anybody, when life gets really crazy and really hectic,
Speaker 1: we can lose sight of what are some of actually
Speaker 1: the most important pieces, right, And so having that mental
Speaker 1: short list actually written down. While it might seem obvious
Speaker 1: that those are good things to think about in our
Speaker 1: calm state, when we get into that you know, kind
Speaker 1: of rattled nervous energy space, and our vision is more narrow,
Speaker 1: not only our physical vision but maybe even our mental vision,
Speaker 1: and all we can see in our mind's eye is
Speaker 1: that job application, even though focusing on it is a
Speaker 1: waste of time because it's already submitted. Then all we
Speaker 1: have to do is just literally focus our eyeballs upon
Speaker 1: our mental short list and we say to ourselves, let's
Speaker 1: think about this instead. It's so much easier to think
Speaker 1: to pivot off of a topic like pink elephants. Don't
Speaker 1: think about pink elephants. It's so much easier to pivot
Speaker 1: off of a topic when you give yourself something else
Speaker 1: that's good and better and interesting to think about than
Speaker 1: if you just say, don't think about pink elephants, because
Speaker 1: then all you're doing is reinforcing that topic in your mind. Yes,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know you're you're nine different uh techniques.
Speaker 1: The one I like is the very first one. And
Speaker 1: again it's something that it's not exactly the same as
Speaker 1: as you portray it in the book, but I've done
Speaker 1: something like this through different types of therapy. And that's
Speaker 1: the three part breath. And can was this part of
Speaker 1: your yoga training that you came up with this? Yes?
Speaker 1: Can you explain a little bit about that to our listeners? Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: So the three part breath is something you know, I
Speaker 1: didn't make it up myself. It is something I learned
Speaker 1: in yoga training. So the three part breath is that
Speaker 1: Eve implies, Um, it is a breath that takes you know,
Speaker 1: three parts, and you locate the three parts in your
Speaker 1: body as you do the breath, and it it Actually
Speaker 1: it does require a little bit of mental effort to
Speaker 1: just even remember what the steps are. But that's actually
Speaker 1: a blessing in disguise, because we can use the three
Speaker 1: part breath when we're starting to get a little bit panicked.
Speaker 1: We can use the three part breath for all kinds
Speaker 1: of situations. But I personally used it even when I
Speaker 1: was having a panic attack. Actually on the Nancy Grace Show.
Speaker 1: I started to have a panic attack literally on the
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Show because I mispronounced a word. And I,
Speaker 1: you know, for me, for psychologists PhDs, mispronouncing a word,
Speaker 1: you know, that's like, you know, the end of the world, right,
Speaker 1: So for me, because I was thinking, oh, no, I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to look smart, I'm supposed to have a PhD,
Speaker 1: and you know, I can't even pronounce a word, and
Speaker 1: I started to have this like as you can see
Speaker 1: this you know, whole mental monologue, and I started to
Speaker 1: have this little panic attack. So I had to do
Speaker 1: the three part breath to reset my body out of
Speaker 1: that panic attack. And then the mental energy of even
Speaker 1: just thinking the three part breath, just thinking those words
Speaker 1: and then remembering the steps and putting my body through them,
Speaker 1: that actually stopped me from having those anxious thoughts about saying,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I'm a psychologist, I look like an idiot.
Speaker 1: Why can't I even talk? Blah blah blah, Like I
Speaker 1: wasn't able to have too monologues going in my mind
Speaker 1: at once. So that's, you know, kind of a benefit
Speaker 1: of the three part breath is that it actually forces
Speaker 1: your brain to focus on something neutral or constructive, like
Speaker 1: doing the steps of the three part breath. But then
Speaker 1: what it also does is it forces some oxygen into
Speaker 1: your body, which is always a good thing if you're,
Speaker 1: you know, feeling stressed. A lot of people tell me
Speaker 1: that they've done deep breathing before and it didn't work.
Speaker 1: But when I learned more, I discovered that they actually
Speaker 1: just did it like a gaping breath where they're like,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's almost like breathing into a paper
Speaker 1: bag type of a thing, right, like just gasping for breath,
Speaker 1: And so the three part breath guys you to go
Speaker 1: deep with your breath, but also in a very slow,
Speaker 1: controlled way. One final benefit about that good old three
Speaker 1: part breath is it actually has been shown to build
Speaker 1: metacognition skills. So what is so amazing with anything of
Speaker 1: this mindfulness stuff, which is what the three part breath
Speaker 1: is, is is, in addition to all those other benefits I named,
Speaker 1: it's a mindfulness exercise. You you you actually observe your breath.
Speaker 1: And I know it sounds like insane, but it's true
Speaker 1: that by learning to observe your breath, you learn to
Speaker 1: observe your thoughts. And a lot of people might say, well,
Speaker 1: why do I need to observe my thoughts? I know
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking? Right? However, um, if anyone here has
Speaker 1: ever had the experience, say of like, you know, being
Speaker 1: at a deli in New York like I have, and
Speaker 1: finally like discovering yourself yelling or snapping at like a
Speaker 1: deli person and then saying, Wow, what the heck is
Speaker 1: wrong with me? I must and then you realize like, oh, gee,
Speaker 1: I'm really stressed, or gee I I'm really upset about
Speaker 1: something that happened earlier today, And so that's a case
Speaker 1: of not actually really fully knowing what was on your
Speaker 1: mind until some kind of a telltale sign slipped out,
Speaker 1: and the mindfulness and the meta cognition actually gives you
Speaker 1: the jump on what's going on in your mind, which
Speaker 1: is a pretty valuable tool in my opinion. Absolutely, And again,
Speaker 1: like I said, I I've I'm far from an expert
Speaker 1: at that, but I have used that and it does
Speaker 1: kind of clear your mind when you your mind is
Speaker 1: kind of jumbled and you're looking for that answer I
Speaker 1: guess that you're searching for at the time. That kind
Speaker 1: of slows down everything and it clears your head a
Speaker 1: little bit. I'm a firm believer in that. But before
Speaker 1: we go on, I just needed to read a a
Speaker 1: quick note from the Veterans Administration, So excuse me for
Speaker 1: one second. Hello everyone, Steve Balistoria here from software dot Com.
Speaker 1: I wanted to tell you about a new app that
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Speaker 1: phone so that you have it when you need. With
Speaker 1: that in mind, that kind of plays into what we're
Speaker 1: talking about today, stress. Dr Chloe, thanks again for joining us.
Speaker 1: We're talking about stress. Um I'm wanted to switch it
Speaker 1: up just a little bit. I know, um, you know
Speaker 1: in special operations where myself and a lot of our
Speaker 1: listeners come from, including Brandon who you know quite well,
Speaker 1: we know what causes our stress. But um, for the
Speaker 1: most part, I guess, but what are the causes you
Speaker 1: see and your clients and are they kind of comparable
Speaker 1: in a manner of speaking to what military people go through? Wow? So, Steve,
Speaker 1: I think that's a very generous question, and I just
Speaker 1: want to start by saying, I frankly don't think anything
Speaker 1: really could compare to really to what military uh people
Speaker 1: go through. I actually in my training did work at
Speaker 1: some veterans hospitals as well, UM, And I just I
Speaker 1: really believe that there's there's really no you know, greater sacrifice. UM.
Speaker 1: So I would never compare like the stress of what
Speaker 1: civilians go through, you know, compared to what military people
Speaker 1: go through. But that said, I think that a lot
Speaker 1: of you know, civilians or you know, even ex military people,
Speaker 1: we still, um, we still have a part of ourselves
Speaker 1: that can falsely register uh, certain situations as life and death.
Speaker 1: And so even though military people have been through actual
Speaker 1: life and death. And that's why I would never compare, um,
Speaker 1: you know, our stressors, my stressors to those, uh, but
Speaker 1: in our minds it can feel like life and death, um.
Speaker 1: And and a lot of it especially for high achieving people,
Speaker 1: which I know a lot of your audience is special operations,
Speaker 1: right and you know we we you know, on a
Speaker 1: mission on point type A. Gotta make it work like clockwork, right, Um.
Speaker 1: And so we do tend to get a little bit
Speaker 1: more stress sometimes because we want everything to go so well,
Speaker 1: we want things to be perfect. Mistakes are always high
Speaker 1: in our hearts and minds, and our very identity as
Speaker 1: a successful intelligent person can sometimes feel like it's on
Speaker 1: the line, you know, with each and every mission we run,
Speaker 1: whether it be a military mission or you know, um,
Speaker 1: a parenting mission you know, or just like whatever type
Speaker 1: of you know mission you know that we're on in
Speaker 1: the day to day. Um. But like you said, Steve,
Speaker 1: also people in the military I know have to be
Speaker 1: very good at, as you said, being able to put
Speaker 1: their emotions aside and even outside of that in success.
Speaker 1: To be successful in if we do have to be
Speaker 1: able to put our emotions aside. But the trick is
Speaker 1: to be able to get back in touch with your
Speaker 1: emotions later. Um. And I know some people might say, well,
Speaker 1: why bother right, we already put them to the side.
Speaker 1: We're done, We've moved on. Why take out all that
Speaker 1: little dirty laundry. Um. And sometimes it's true, sometimes there's
Speaker 1: no need for that. But on the other hand, as
Speaker 1: we all know, if you stuff too much dirty laundry
Speaker 1: into the back of your closet, um, it will come
Speaker 1: cascading out at the worst possible moment um and and
Speaker 1: read more havoc. You know then if we just dealt
Speaker 1: with it in a normal way, right, So it's actually
Speaker 1: a blessing and a curse to be able to put
Speaker 1: your emotions aside. And I share a lot in the book,
Speaker 1: even about a surgeon. Actually, I know you've read the book, Steve.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, so you might know the part I
Speaker 1: mean that there I share about a surgeon, and they
Speaker 1: have to be very good at putting their emotions aside
Speaker 1: to be able to cut into somebody's body. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: in order to heal them, you have to really be
Speaker 1: able to control your emotions. Um. And and what what
Speaker 1: we need to do to make sure we get back
Speaker 1: in touch with those emotions and deal with them before
Speaker 1: they come crashing out on us at the worst possible time. Um.
Speaker 1: There's a technique I like in the book called mind mapping,
Speaker 1: which again I'm you know, maybe a little bit of
Speaker 1: a stereotyper here, but I'm thinking of all your special
Speaker 1: operations people and imagining them, you know, with their maps
Speaker 1: and you know, all that military stuff, and I bet
Speaker 1: that they could make a really, really hot mind map.
Speaker 1: So if anybody listening does decide to get the book
Speaker 1: and make a mind map, and you know you're not shy,
Speaker 1: share a picture of your mind map on social media
Speaker 1: with me, I would. I would absolutely love to see it.
Speaker 1: And one more thing I just wanted to share, see,
Speaker 1: by the way, speaking of social media, I wanted to
Speaker 1: offer just a gift to your audience just because I
Speaker 1: again have such a deep appreciation, um for for what
Speaker 1: they're doing. So I'm not not able to give away
Speaker 1: the book because it's actually not mine, it's the publishers.
Speaker 1: But I do have you know, like a some you know,
Speaker 1: video courses and all that kind of good stuff that
Speaker 1: I would love to give your audience for free. And
Speaker 1: so if they want to direct message me on social
Speaker 1: media or anything, um, I would be glad to send them,
Speaker 1: you know, just some videos like coupons for some of
Speaker 1: my videos and stuff. But I do hope that they'll
Speaker 1: get the book too, because I do think there's some
Speaker 1: good stuff and I would love to hear, you know what,
Speaker 1: what actual military people say. I think that would be
Speaker 1: my true testifier would be to get some comments from
Speaker 1: your group. Well, you know, the the area in the
Speaker 1: book about mind mapping, um, I found fascinating because one
Speaker 1: of your clients are patients. Uh. And again I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if there's the true names, but to Maka, I've
Speaker 1: had similar kind of I guess episodes where somebody says
Speaker 1: something that triggered unconscious association and all of a sudden
Speaker 1: her mind went in fifteen different directions. And I don't
Speaker 1: know what costs of stuff like that, but I've had
Speaker 1: that happen to be on occasion. And then afterwards you
Speaker 1: wonder like, where did this come from? Because somebody in
Speaker 1: the book you talk about, well, um, you know Tamka,
Speaker 1: somebody mentioned, oh, there was a waiter, and then it
Speaker 1: turned into her sister and then she was worrying about
Speaker 1: different things. And I think we've all had that. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's it's that a common issue. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And what's really amazing is that sometimes the more intelligent
Speaker 1: we are and the faster our minds think and work.
Speaker 1: The more vulnerable we are to kind of taking a
Speaker 1: mental detour that that can take us off track. Right.
Speaker 1: So the book, the example you mentioned is a woman
Speaker 1: goes out for lunch and the waiter looks like a
Speaker 1: man who cheated on her sister once. But she doesn't
Speaker 1: even realize that. Consciously, she suddenly finds herself thinking about
Speaker 1: her sister and being jealous of her sister and all
Speaker 1: these you know, mind goes out from there. Um. And
Speaker 1: so then she showed up at my office. And by
Speaker 1: the way, just to confirm the names are anonymized, you know,
Speaker 1: just due to confidentiality, I have to change a couple
Speaker 1: of identifying details. But so she came to my office
Speaker 1: just saying, I will understand why, but I'm just feeling
Speaker 1: insecure and jealous and like worked up. I'm supposed to
Speaker 1: be having a great day, Like why the hell do
Speaker 1: I feel so upset? Um? And so, you know, we
Speaker 1: we started to do the mind map, and you know,
Speaker 1: realize that it's a very interesting thing. In our brain.
Speaker 1: We have neurons. Those are the brain cells. There are neurons,
Speaker 1: and um, the neurons they connect to each other, right,
Speaker 1: and so there's literal connections, and so it's almost like
Speaker 1: a domino effect where for reasons of two, things like
Speaker 1: the look of a waiter and you know, thoughts about
Speaker 1: this lead to a memory of that, and you know,
Speaker 1: next thing, you know, your mind is off to the races.
Speaker 1: And the mind map I encourage in the book even
Speaker 1: some people just like to do one every day. They're
Speaker 1: especially good for people that don't like to write in
Speaker 1: a journal. Right, So if you just think about writing
Speaker 1: sentences in a journal and you're like, I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm writing an essay, I hate this. Can I just
Speaker 1: do the key words? Um? You know, the mind map,
Speaker 1: I think is a really good way to just get
Speaker 1: a quick snapshot of what all those connections are. Because
Speaker 1: the more insight and knowledge we have about our own
Speaker 1: damn self, the better off we are in life. Right.
Speaker 1: It's I always kind of think of it almost as
Speaker 1: like a user's manual for your brain. You want to
Speaker 1: know about it, right, absolutely? And because when I was
Speaker 1: reading that, you know, I've always been embarrassed to mention
Speaker 1: that because sometimes we've fallen into that where you know,
Speaker 1: you go somewhere not exactly the same as hers played out,
Speaker 1: but you know, somebody will say something or there is
Speaker 1: a smell in a room, and and it takes you
Speaker 1: in fifteen different directions and then you wonder how did
Speaker 1: I heck did I get here? Yeah? Where the heck
Speaker 1: did I even get? You? Know? Um, so, Steve, it's
Speaker 1: it's nothing to be embarrassed about. Because again I want
Speaker 1: to say it again because I think this is important.
Speaker 1: The faster your mind works, the more likely this is
Speaker 1: to happen to you. So if you're a smart guy, Steve,
Speaker 1: then that that this may be nothing to be ashamed of.
Speaker 1: It's just your it's just your big smart brain. No,
Speaker 1: no worries on that. Well, I think you can get
Speaker 1: odds on that part about me being a smart guy.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, but I thank you for that.
Speaker 1: I thank My wife would appreciate you here. But to
Speaker 1: go back, I wanted to ask you about there's a
Speaker 1: certain mindset in special operations and um, it's and you
Speaker 1: kind of touched on this a little bit in in
Speaker 1: the book. And you know our special ops guys, you know,
Speaker 1: we have like a and I'm going to mispronounce the
Speaker 1: word here, so I hope I don't get a panic
Speaker 1: attack A Sisiphian complex. I guess you know, we're always
Speaker 1: searching for that, and that's I mean, that's what special
Speaker 1: ops guys are. They're always searching for perfection and you're
Speaker 1: never going to attain that. But sometimes I wonder, and
Speaker 1: and you may find this and as you call high
Speaker 1: functioning people in the civilian world, that that you know,
Speaker 1: search for perfection in whatever it is that you pick
Speaker 1: to do. Does that eventually cause the stress that a
Speaker 1: lot of people come under. So I'm going to go
Speaker 1: out on a limb here, Steve and and just see
Speaker 1: something that's like really non PC right, which is that
Speaker 1: I believe there's actually nothing wrong with perfectionism. Okay, So, yes,
Speaker 1: this search for perfection can be stressful. But those of
Speaker 1: us who can't handle a little stress, I mean, I'm sorry, okay,
Speaker 1: but um, in order to accomplish some of the best
Speaker 1: things in life that have ever been accomplished, people had
Speaker 1: to be willing to endure some stress. Right, So does
Speaker 1: perfectionism cause stress? Yes? Um? Does that mean that it's
Speaker 1: you know, terrible and we should all drop our standards?
Speaker 1: I actually don't necessarily think so, So I guess it
Speaker 1: kind of depends on how you define perfectionism, but the
Speaker 1: way I think of it, and again this may not
Speaker 1: be the correct PC way to think of it. Um.
Speaker 1: I know most psychologists just have kind of a knee
Speaker 1: jerk reaction like perfectionism is bad. But I actually personally
Speaker 1: like to think of it, Steve the way that you
Speaker 1: put it, which is it's just a striving for excellence.
Speaker 1: It's just having a goal of saying I would like
Speaker 1: to be able to do this error free, right, So
Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I do think, however,
Speaker 1: that ironically, the search in the pursuit of perfectionism is
Speaker 1: what keeps people from being as close to perfect as
Speaker 1: they can. So the irony is that if you, you know, again,
Speaker 1: suppose that job application example I gave with the mental shortlist,
Speaker 1: Suppose that you hit send on the application. Ten minutes later,
Speaker 1: you discover a typo in your application, and of course
Speaker 1: it's very triggering for the perfectionist side of you. What
Speaker 1: somebody might do is spend them three hours beating themselves
Speaker 1: up over that TYPEO total waste of energy. Right, that's
Speaker 1: actually keeping them from then executing perfectly on whatever is
Speaker 1: actually next in their plate because they're so focused on
Speaker 1: that mistake from the past, that there's nothing that they
Speaker 1: can even do anything about. So I do like the
Speaker 1: idea of perfectionism, and I give everybody permission to try
Speaker 1: to be as as as as perfect as they want
Speaker 1: to be. I don't think that we should try to
Speaker 1: put those expectations on other people. But I would never
Speaker 1: try to tell somebody that they don't have it in them.
Speaker 1: You know that if they want to strive to perfectionism,
Speaker 1: which frankly I do. That doesn't mean I am perfect,
Speaker 1: far from it, but what I like to be, what
Speaker 1: I like to try for that of course. Um. And
Speaker 1: So when I do make a mistake, which happens more
Speaker 1: often than I like to admit, UM, I am tempted
Speaker 1: to waste a bunch of my nervous energy around that
Speaker 1: mistake by just beating myself up about it. But a
Speaker 1: good technique instead, like say, the mental shortlist, is where
Speaker 1: I can then say to myself, Okay, that typo has
Speaker 1: you know, hit the stands already. So at this point
Speaker 1: I've just got all this adrenaline and energy from noticing
Speaker 1: that mistake, and I'm all riled up about it. Why
Speaker 1: don't I point my energy here now on something I
Speaker 1: can actually do something about. Why don't I take that
Speaker 1: energy and apply it for five more jobs since I'm
Speaker 1: feeling so riled up here? Right, So again, I think
Speaker 1: there's actually nothing wrong with wanting to be perfect, but
Speaker 1: we just have to take the drive to be perfect
Speaker 1: and make sure we actually use it towards excellence rather
Speaker 1: than wasting it. I'm picking ourselves apart in ways that
Speaker 1: are actually not even going to move any closer towards perfection.
Speaker 1: And another area I wanted to touch on from the
Speaker 1: book was the zone of control because I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people that's where a lot of us lose
Speaker 1: our focus. And um, can you talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about that? Yeah, So the zone of control, I think
Speaker 1: is is such a good one. So in the zone
Speaker 1: of control, what we do is it's basically like guiding
Speaker 1: you step by step of how to apply I the
Speaker 1: Serenity prayer in your life. Right, So, God, grant me
Speaker 1: the serenity to accept the things that cannot change, courage
Speaker 1: to change the things I can, and wisdom to know
Speaker 1: the difference. Right. So the wisdom part. Um, I love God,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to go out a limb and say,
Speaker 1: maybe it's not something that God just has to grant us.
Speaker 1: It's actually something that we can get for ourselves. So
Speaker 1: by doing that zone of control, we take some kind
Speaker 1: of a challenge that we're having in our life. I'll
Speaker 1: just take the job example, just to keep it simple.
Speaker 1: And you want to get a new job, and you
Speaker 1: think about all the things that are in your control
Speaker 1: around that, like you know, all the places that you
Speaker 1: could apply, getting a resume review, like all this stuff
Speaker 1: you could do, and then you think about the things
Speaker 1: that are not in your control, like maybe like perhaps
Speaker 1: your job history doesn't have the exact experience that you
Speaker 1: think would be most applicable, or you know, uh, whatever
Speaker 1: it is that's in the challenge side that you actually
Speaker 1: cannot control, and having very clear about what's not in
Speaker 1: control versus what is in control, and having it written
Speaker 1: down again because it sounds so calm when we're just
Speaker 1: thinking about it normally, but when we get all into
Speaker 1: a worked up space, um, it can be very difficult.
Speaker 1: So I actually worked with a wonderful client who was
Speaker 1: an ex military and he taught me a term that
Speaker 1: I might even misuse, called the fog of war. And
Speaker 1: he said, in the fog of war. He actually shared
Speaker 1: this with me Um when I was teaching him some
Speaker 1: techniques that I you know, that he liked, that he
Speaker 1: found very helpful, and he said it reminded him of
Speaker 1: the fog of war. That when you're in the fog
Speaker 1: of war, he said, everything can seem upside down. You
Speaker 1: don't know which way you're going, Things don't make sense,
Speaker 1: You might make decisions that could even be irrational because
Speaker 1: you're in like this fog of war. Um. And so
Speaker 1: by writing things down in the zone of control and
Speaker 1: what's not in the zone of control, then when life
Speaker 1: puts you in that fog of war, it's very simple
Speaker 1: to just know exactly where you're pointing your eyeballs. The
Speaker 1: zone of control is your north star, and you know
Speaker 1: that if you literally just physically point your eyeballs at
Speaker 1: what's in the zone of control. And part of the
Speaker 1: exercise in the book is you not only identify the
Speaker 1: zone of control, you jot down one or two actions
Speaker 1: you can take around those items, because by definition, that's
Speaker 1: what puts them in the zone of control, is that
Speaker 1: there's something you can do to control them, to affect them.
Speaker 1: So you not only put us there in the zone
Speaker 1: of control, and then you also put the actions you
Speaker 1: can take. And then when you're just feeling anxious about
Speaker 1: oh job search jitters, instead of just sitting there with
Speaker 1: those jitters, you say, oh, thank God for that little
Speaker 1: zinge of nervous energy I've got going here. Let me
Speaker 1: point my eyeballs at my zone of control, see what
Speaker 1: action steps I can take right now. And then when
Speaker 1: anything from that zone and non control starts gnawing at you,
Speaker 1: you just know very clear, lee like that is off limits.
Speaker 1: That's not on the menu for me. That's just a
Speaker 1: waste of my time. And then you just track your
Speaker 1: eyeballs one inch to the left over to your zone
Speaker 1: of control, and that's where you knock it out. Well,
Speaker 1: we're talking here with Dr Chloe Carmichael, whose book Nervous Energy,
Speaker 1: How Harnessed the Power of Your Anxiety and her nine
Speaker 1: Techniques of Harnessing your power really really good. I've I've
Speaker 1: just finished, like I said, over the weekend, I just
Speaker 1: finished reading the book. It was I think it's it's
Speaker 1: very very helpful. I wanted to ask you, because of
Speaker 1: the COVID that's going on now, are you doing more
Speaker 1: and more like virtual appointments? With video, are you still
Speaker 1: seeing a lot of your patients in person? Well, my
Speaker 1: office has done video visits for a long time, and
Speaker 1: I personally am on sabbatical from individual visits because I'm
Speaker 1: really putting all my time and attention into this book
Speaker 1: and into programs in classes and you know, time like this,
Speaker 1: I I want to get the word out, you know,
Speaker 1: to people about the book, so whether they want to
Speaker 1: read with their eyes or whether they want to listen
Speaker 1: with their ears. We got the audio books, we got everything.
Speaker 1: So I've been putting my effort into that. But the therapists,
Speaker 1: God bless them that work for me at my office, Uh,
Speaker 1: they have been um, they've been doing everything virtually for
Speaker 1: over a year now, and to be honest, it's actually
Speaker 1: been kind of a breath of fresh air to drop that,
Speaker 1: you know, Park Avenue Office rent. So I haven't really
Speaker 1: minded that at all. Like igin my heart goes out
Speaker 1: to people who have suffered tragedy due to COVID, and
Speaker 1: I don't mean to make light of it, but I'm
Speaker 1: just to answer your question. You know, we were still
Speaker 1: doing things virtually even though I personally am full time
Speaker 1: focused on the book. Okay, Yeah, I just didn't know
Speaker 1: if if virtual was it's that kind of the wave
Speaker 1: of the future. I mean, even after COVID's over, where
Speaker 1: you can you know, reach some of your your patients,
Speaker 1: you know, if they're traveling, especially you know, you're talking
Speaker 1: about some high functioning people, high high level people in
Speaker 1: the in the business world, where they can reach you
Speaker 1: if they have an issue and or is is their
Speaker 1: drawbacks to that? Yeah, I mean I think that there's
Speaker 1: always pluses and minuses. So as I said, like, I've
Speaker 1: been doing virtual, like literally for years. Like I actually
Speaker 1: wrote an article in US News and World Report about
Speaker 1: how to even find a good online therapist because the
Speaker 1: game is a little different when you're trying to let
Speaker 1: people online. Um, so I I do think that, you know,
Speaker 1: it's important to make sure you get a good virtual therapist.
Speaker 1: And I've been doing virtual for a long time. So
Speaker 1: but I've loved like the virtual thing. Even in terms
Speaker 1: of this book, we're actually organizing like master classes and
Speaker 1: things like that. So you know, again I I, I
Speaker 1: don't own the book, so I can't you know, give
Speaker 1: the book away. But you know, if I but he
Speaker 1: does buy the book and you know, share their receipt
Speaker 1: with me over social media or whatever. I will put
Speaker 1: you into one of the master classes for free, because again,
Speaker 1: I just have like the deepest soft spot in my heart. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, in my heart and my mind. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's really not lost on me that we would not
Speaker 1: be here if it were not for you know, people
Speaker 1: like like you and your audience. So I want to
Speaker 1: thank you all again for that. Well, thank you, dr.
Speaker 1: You know, we appreciate your you taking the time today,
Speaker 1: and you know, tell our listeners a little bit more
Speaker 1: about the book where they can find it. I know
Speaker 1: it's on Amazon, but you also sell it off of
Speaker 1: your website, so uh tell them where they can find it,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, if you want to add any
Speaker 1: more details about the book. Yeah, sure, So the book
Speaker 1: is on Amazon, which, to be honest, I would love
Speaker 1: it if you all bought it there because if you
Speaker 1: buy it on Amazon and then you leave a review, um,
Speaker 1: which will help me so much because it will help
Speaker 1: me to get another book deal with my publisher. Um. Like,
Speaker 1: if you get Amazon reviews, it's kind of worth its
Speaker 1: weight in gold. And Amazon is really good at knowing.
Speaker 1: If I just get my own friends and family to
Speaker 1: do the reviews, they have like alcorithms that will check that.
Speaker 1: So if your listeners that don't know me, um, you know,
Speaker 1: did get the book on Amazon and leave a nice review, Um,
Speaker 1: I would, you know, it would just be like it
Speaker 1: would it would like rock my world in the biggest way. UM.
Speaker 1: So the best thing to do, I think is to
Speaker 1: go to Amazon and get the book. If for some
Speaker 1: reason you just don't like Amazon, um, you can get
Speaker 1: it Barnes and Noble or Nervous Energy, book dot com
Speaker 1: wherever books are sold. But really, Amazon is kind of
Speaker 1: the powerhouse these days, even though I've got mixed feelings
Speaker 1: about some of the things the Amazon's up to sometimes,
Speaker 1: but I just have to go with what they're doing
Speaker 1: right now, and that's where my book and that's what
Speaker 1: I need to happen. That's my mission right now. Excellent,
Speaker 1: and it was. It was a very interesting book. And uh,
Speaker 1: I was glad you were able to share with us
Speaker 1: here at software dot com. Uh. And you know, I
Speaker 1: got a lot out of it. And I've underlined some
Speaker 1: of the the highlights of the book because I think
Speaker 1: these are gonna be some of the things that I
Speaker 1: use in a daily basis, and I encourage all of
Speaker 1: our listeners out there and our readers to do the same.
Speaker 1: I think it will help you a lot. Before we
Speaker 1: wrap this up, I just wanted to say, if you
Speaker 1: want to get soft Reap on your phone, download our
Speaker 1: free mobile app and get easy access to our articles, podcasting,
Speaker 1: gear reviews, all perfectly formatted to your device. Please subscribe
Speaker 1: to softwarep dot com to get access to all of
Speaker 1: our library and e books and our exclusive team room content,
Speaker 1: forums and um our podcast as well. So available on
Speaker 1: all your Apple and Android devices. Dr Chloe Carmichael, thanks
Speaker 1: again for joining us. It's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: I apologize for our technical glitch before we get started today,
Speaker 1: but it was a lot of fun and we look
Speaker 1: forward to the next book and um you know where.
Speaker 1: We wish you all the best for that. Thank you, Steve,
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it with a pleasure to share with you.
Speaker 1: Thanks again. Oh, thank you, and we'll be back with
Speaker 1: another podcast real soon. But for myself, Steve Balistrari, all
Speaker 1: of us here at soft dot com and our guests
Speaker 1: this morning, Dr Chloe Carmichael, thanks for listening. Folks. Don't
Speaker 1: turn that dial Software dot com on time on tome.
Speaker 1: You've been listening to self reply