Faydra Aldridge: Welcome to Look Again: Mental Illness Re-examined. A podcast brought to
Faydra Aldridge: you by the BC Schizophrenia Society, otherwise known as BCSS,
Faydra Aldridge: as well as our partner organizations. I'm your host, Faydra Aldridge.
Faydra Aldridge: Mental Health. It's a well covered topic and people often
Faydra Aldridge: lump it together with mental illness. But for our first episode,
Faydra Aldridge: we want to strongly challenge the idea that disorders like
Faydra Aldridge: schizophrenia are mental health issues. So today on Look Again,
Faydra Aldridge: we're asking what is the difference between mental health and
Faydra Aldridge: serious mental illness and why does mental illness need its
Faydra Aldridge: own specific plan of action? We're about to find out.
Faydra Aldridge: So my guest today is Dr. Diane McIintosh, a clinical
Faydra Aldridge: assistant professor at the University of British Columbia. She has
Faydra Aldridge: a community psychiatry practice and is the chief neuroscience officer
Faydra Aldridge: for Telus Health. And I'm not done yet. Dr. McIntosh
Faydra Aldridge: has been a tireless advocate for more compassionate and appropriate
Faydra Aldridge: care for psychiatric patients and their families. She's the co-founder
Faydra Aldridge: of Switch RX . She's also developed her own online
Faydra Aldridge: continuing medical education program called Psyched Up. She's also published
Faydra Aldridge: commentary in Psychology Today, Huffington Post and many newspapers, including
Faydra Aldridge: The Vancouver Sun. And she's an author and has a
Faydra Aldridge: new book called This is Depression, a comprehensive and Compassionate
Faydra Aldridge: Guide for those who want to understand depression. But I'm
Faydra Aldridge: not done yet. Just last December, Dr McIntosh was also
Faydra Aldridge: voted one of Canada's top 100 most powerful women by
Faydra Aldridge: the Women's Executive Network. That's fantastic. Dr McIntosh, welcome to
Faydra Aldridge: the show.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: Thank you so much for having me.
Faydra Aldridge: So for this very first episode, we really want to
Faydra Aldridge: look at the difference between mental health and mental illness.
Faydra Aldridge: Dr McIntosh. What is this difference?
Dr. Diane McIntosh: The way that I understand a mental illness is that
Dr. Diane McIntosh: you meet particular diagnostic criteria, meaning that there are-- every
Dr. Diane McIntosh: mental illness has a particular set of diagnoses or symptoms
Dr. Diane McIntosh: that come together along with an impact on your functioning.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: So it's not just the symptoms alone, but how those
Dr. Diane McIntosh: symptoms affect your ability to work, to parent other relationships
Dr. Diane McIntosh: in your life and to be diagnosed with a mental illness.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: You have to have a certain number of those symptoms
Dr. Diane McIntosh: along with functional impairment. And that leads to being given
Dr. Diane McIntosh: a specific diagnosis, schizophrenia, bipolar depression. All of us have
Dr. Diane McIntosh: mental health, right. That mental health itself is living in
Dr. Diane McIntosh: a healthy manner, being able to engage with the people
Dr. Diane McIntosh: around you, to be physically active, to have a healthy
Dr. Diane McIntosh: gut biome, which actually those are the bugs that live
Dr. Diane McIntosh: in your gut that help your brain to stay healthy
Dr. Diane McIntosh: as well. So being mentally healthy and having a mental
Dr. Diane McIntosh: illness and they are linked, but a mental illness is
Dr. Diane McIntosh: a very specific set of symptoms that impact your ability
Dr. Diane McIntosh: to function.
Faydra Aldridge: And I've been hearing those terms used synonymously: mental health
Faydra Aldridge: and mental illness, especially I've noticed during covid-19. So how
Faydra Aldridge: do you in your practice, how do you introduce the
Faydra Aldridge: difference between mental health and mental illness to your patients
Faydra Aldridge: or to the families that you work with?
Dr. Diane McIntosh: It's kind of an interesting question, because here we are,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: two adults having to separate this for adults listening to
Dr. Diane McIntosh: this podcast, and I really believe that we need to
Dr. Diane McIntosh: the same way that we deal with sexual health now
Dr. Diane McIntosh: in school, starting in kindergarten with this is my body
Dr. Diane McIntosh: and moving from there, that we need to give young
Dr. Diane McIntosh: people a vocabulary so that they do understand what is healthy.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: When is when is something changed to the point where
Dr. Diane McIntosh: you are actually suffering from an illness? When do you
Dr. Diane McIntosh: need help? Because I think we see a lot of
Dr. Diane McIntosh: young people right now saying, I'm anxious, I'm anxious. But
Dr. Diane McIntosh: when when is normal worry or normal fear? When does
Dr. Diane McIntosh: it become anxiety and when do you need to ask
Dr. Diane McIntosh: for help and when do parents need to be worried?
Dr. Diane McIntosh: So I feel a little sad that people really still
Dr. Diane McIntosh: struggle with these terms because they don't have a vocabulary.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: And so I think this is a great thing about
Dr. Diane McIntosh: podcasts like this, is that we start to actually put
Dr. Diane McIntosh: meaning around some of these words.
Faydra Aldridge: So now let's delve into terminology. And you touched on this,
Faydra Aldridge: Dr Macintosh. But I would like to talk about terminology
Faydra Aldridge: and the words we use now. Something that I hear
Faydra Aldridge: a lot is why do you still use the term schizophrenia?
Faydra Aldridge: Our organization is the Schizophrenia Society and I've had quite
Faydra Aldridge: a few people ask me, why do you still use
Faydra Aldridge: the term? It's derogatory, it's negative, it has negative connotations.
Faydra Aldridge: It's scary. Schizophrenia affects everyone. What are your thoughts on that?
Dr. Diane McIntosh: My particular belief on this is that it isn't the
Dr. Diane McIntosh: word that carries the power, it's the meaning behind it.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: It's how people have been treated in the context of
Dr. Diane McIntosh: living with schizophrenia. And so that's what's made it such
Dr. Diane McIntosh: an emotional term for some people. We put our emotions
Dr. Diane McIntosh: around those words, and it's really unfortunate because it's just
Dr. Diane McIntosh: a word. It does. However, when when you have so
Dr. Diane McIntosh: many people sort of saying there's-- there's negative connotations or that it's...
Dr. Diane McIntosh: it's pejorative that speaks to the power of stigma that
Dr. Diane McIntosh: continues and to the harm that's been done in the
Dr. Diane McIntosh: past to people who have symptoms that are consistent with
Dr. Diane McIntosh: the word schizophrenia. And so I hope that by having
Dr. Diane McIntosh: these kinds of conversations, we start to think about not necessarily
Dr. Diane McIntosh: the word, because the word isn't where the power is,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: it's how have we behaved in the past and how
Dr. Diane McIntosh: can we change that. And I think one of the
Dr. Diane McIntosh: most critical parts about that is stigma and the fact
Dr. Diane McIntosh: that people who are living with severe and persistent mental
Dr. Diane McIntosh: illnesses like schizophrenia, like bipolar disorder, like a severe depression,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: still face stigma, but not just in the way we
Dr. Diane McIntosh: think about the general public, or maybe there are certain
Dr. Diane McIntosh: groups where the stigma is more powerful or alive. The
Dr. Diane McIntosh: stigma around mental illness lives in medicine. It lives in psychiatry.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: And until we all come to grapple this and really
Dr. Diane McIntosh: address it and lay it bare, it's going to continue.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: And what I mean by that is that we still
Dr. Diane McIntosh: struggle to get people who are physicians or nurses to
Dr. Diane McIntosh: actually come forward with their own mental illness. And people
Dr. Diane McIntosh: who are living with mental illness are often treated in
Dr. Diane McIntosh: a very derogatory, negative manner simply because of a label
Dr. Diane McIntosh: they have been given. And that has personally affected me
Dr. Diane McIntosh: in my practice the way that some of my patients
Dr. Diane McIntosh: have been treated that has, I think, really traumatized me
Dr. Diane McIntosh: the way that my profession, in general, has responded to
Dr. Diane McIntosh: the needs of people who have mental illness and sometimes
Dr. Diane McIntosh: a very unkind, condescending or even cruel manner. That is
Dr. Diane McIntosh: the problem. Giving someone a diagnosis is often -- it should
Dr. Diane McIntosh: be -- an experience is really freeing to say, oh my goodness,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: I had all these different pieces and you've helped to
Dr. Diane McIntosh: bring them together so that I can understand what's going on.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: Some of some very difficult diagnosis can be very helpful
Dr. Diane McIntosh: to an individual when, when they understand that all of
Dr. Diane McIntosh: these pieces fit together. And because I understand all those pieces,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: I can help you to move forward.
Faydra Aldridge: If you're experiencing this. Dr Mackintosh, what do you think
Faydra Aldridge: we as a society, as a general population can do
Faydra Aldridge: to start to break down some of those barriers and
Faydra Aldridge: and start to really delve into stigma and everything associated
Faydra Aldridge: with severe and persistent mental illness?
Dr. Diane McIntosh: I think the ways that we tackle this will be
Dr. Diane McIntosh: that's the way we're going to change this is by
Dr. Diane McIntosh: actually educating people about what what does it mean to
Dr. Diane McIntosh: have schizophrenia and confronting that stigma. Starting to write these
Dr. Diane McIntosh: OP Ed's because of the way I saw people being
Dr. Diane McIntosh: treated and many of my colleagues said, yeah, you go,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: good for you and I'm behind you, but I'm not
Dr. Diane McIntosh: putting my name out there because I don't want my
Dr. Diane McIntosh: colleagues to start to sort of pile on top of
Dr. Diane McIntosh: me because I did it so. There's a fear out
Dr. Diane McIntosh: there that if you speak out and say we're not
Dr. Diane McIntosh: doing things the right way, we're not treating people kindly,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: we're not putting patients in the center of all our decisions.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: And one of the things that drives me most bananas
Dr. Diane McIntosh: about the whole process is not including loved ones. We
Dr. Diane McIntosh: know that when we treat a human being, they are
Dr. Diane McIntosh: not the only person that is affected by that illness.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: The people that they love are affected, too.
Faydra Aldridge: So what attitudes or social barriers stand in the way
Faydra Aldridge: of people getting the right medications for their respective mental illness?
Dr. Diane McIntosh: Most people, when they go through medical school, do not
Dr. Diane McIntosh: have adequate training in psychiatry. We know that every mental illness,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: every mental illness is associated with an increased risk of
Dr. Diane McIntosh: physical illnesses, with diabetes, with heart disease, with obesity, with
Dr. Diane McIntosh: inflammatory disorders. And the reverse is also true. If you
Dr. Diane McIntosh: are living with obesity, heart disease, inflammatory illness, you have
Dr. Diane McIntosh: an increased risk of mental illness. So the reason I
Dr. Diane McIntosh: went to medical school to become a psychiatrist is because
Dr. Diane McIntosh: I needed that medical school, that whole-body understanding. And then
Dr. Diane McIntosh: on top of that, to have this expertise in treating
Dr. Diane McIntosh: psychiatric disorders or mental illnesses. But we don't treat or
Dr. Diane McIntosh: train sorry, my colleagues, in an adequate manner to understand
Dr. Diane McIntosh: this mind-body connection. But as the science of psychiatry has
Dr. Diane McIntosh: grown and we're starting to understand that these are all
Dr. Diane McIntosh: brain illnesses and what are the brain chemicals and what
Dr. Diane McIntosh: is the genetics and what is the brain structure and
Dr. Diane McIntosh: functional changes that are a result of this illness or
Dr. Diane McIntosh: the cause of this illness that helps us to have
Dr. Diane McIntosh: more credibility within the medical field. So we need to
Dr. Diane McIntosh: make sure that we engage in better training for all
Dr. Diane McIntosh: health care professionals, including my colleagues, and other areas of medicine,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: but also pharmacists. I was a pharmacist, I did pharmacy training,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: and I didn't have a clinical understanding of the experience
Dr. Diane McIntosh: of schizophrenia or depression or bipolar disorder. Nurses need better training.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: Every person who is involved in the treatment of someone
Dr. Diane McIntosh: who's living with mental illness needs to have better education, period.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: We are failing on that front. Now, I want to
Dr. Diane McIntosh: make the point that not everyone who has a mental
Dr. Diane McIntosh: illness requires medication. But if you have a very severe
Dr. Diane McIntosh: mental illness that impacts your ability to function, then on
Dr. Diane McIntosh: more days than not, you're depressed or you're experiencing significant
Dr. Diane McIntosh: anxiety symptoms. You're experiencing delusions, hallucinations associated with schizophrenia, for instance.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: We know and the data shows us that if we
Dr. Diane McIntosh: treat early, fully and completely, we protect your brain. We
Dr. Diane McIntosh: help you to hold on to the skills, the abilities,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: the functions, the brainpower, the cognitive capacity. The sooner and
Dr. Diane McIntosh: the more effectively and fully we treat you, the more
Dr. Diane McIntosh: you're protected.
Faydra Aldridge: And Dr. McIntosh, I just want to dig a little deeper.
Faydra Aldridge: You talked about depression. And here's an interesting fact. According to psych- com- dot- net,
Faydra Aldridge: about twenty five percent of people diagnosed with schizophrenia meet
Faydra Aldridge: the criteria for depression and depressive symptoms can occur throughout
Faydra Aldridge: all the phases of the illness, including during psychotic episodes.
Faydra Aldridge: And I know in your latest book, which is called
Faydra Aldridge: This is Depression, you talk about this. So I'd love
Faydra Aldridge: to hear a little bit more about the crossover between
Faydra Aldridge: depression and other serious mental illnesses such as schizophrenia.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: Right. Well, there's major depressive disorder, which is that you
Dr. Diane McIntosh: just have a depressive episode that you're usually you have
Dr. Diane McIntosh: a normal mood and you get depressed, you feel down,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: you lose interest in things that you would normally enjoy.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: There's changes in your sleep and your appetite. And hopefully
Dr. Diane McIntosh: with treatment, you start to get better again. That's just
Dr. Diane McIntosh: regular old depression. It's horrible, but it's still depression. And
Dr. Diane McIntosh: when you have a bipolar disorder, then your moods can
Dr. Diane McIntosh: go above into areas where you're what's called mania or hypomania.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: Lots of energy don't need sleep. Sometimes there's psychosis associated
Dr. Diane McIntosh: if it's mania. But people who are bipolar actually spend
Dr. Diane McIntosh: most of their time depressed. So when we tend to
Dr. Diane McIntosh: think about bipolar, we focus on the high because that's
Dr. Diane McIntosh: what makes it different from unipolar depression. But in fact,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: the sad truth about bipolar disorder is people spend most
Dr. Diane McIntosh: of their lives or the more than half their lives
Dr. Diane McIntosh: generally experiencing symptoms of depression. The same is true with schizophrenia.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: We tend to think about schizophrenia as just the the
Dr. Diane McIntosh: symptoms associated with that disorder. But there are very high
Dr. Diane McIntosh: rates of both anxiety and depression. And often they're missed
Dr. Diane McIntosh: or they're not looked for carefully and recognized. And we
Dr. Diane McIntosh: know that the suicide rates associated with schizophrenia and bipolar
Dr. Diane McIntosh: are higher than they are with depression. So it is
Dr. Diane McIntosh: critical that we pay attention the other. Piece of that
Dr. Diane McIntosh: is and I think it's another reason why engaging pharmacists
Dr. Diane McIntosh: who are so respected amongst their patients is an understanding
Dr. Diane McIntosh: that sometimes you need more than one drug, sometimes you
Dr. Diane McIntosh: may need three or four. And I want to keep
Dr. Diane McIntosh: people on as few medications as possible. But if I
Dr. Diane McIntosh: have a patient who is experiencing schizophrenia symptoms and they
Dr. Diane McIntosh: develop depression, that means that they may require an antidepressant.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: And we need to make sure that everyone who is
Dr. Diane McIntosh: involved with that patient understands why. Why are we adding
Dr. Diane McIntosh: an extra medication in it? Is that combination safe? And
Dr. Diane McIntosh: if it doesn't work, what do we do next? But
Dr. Diane McIntosh: there's a rationale for each part of the treatment. And
Dr. Diane McIntosh: if people have negative experiences with medication, then introducing a
Dr. Diane McIntosh: new medication or the idea of it becomes really scary
Dr. Diane McIntosh: for them. So we need to start treating early, giving
Dr. Diane McIntosh: people as much education as possible around the why. Why
Dr. Diane McIntosh: is this important? How might it help you? And if
Dr. Diane McIntosh: someone becomes depressed, why we need to add something else
Dr. Diane McIntosh: in and what it means, what it should do. And
Dr. Diane McIntosh: if you're having problems, we can try something else
Faydra Aldridge: you're listening to. Look, Again, Mental Illness Re-examined a podcast
Faydra Aldridge: brought to you by the B.C. Schizophrenia Society and B.C.
Faydra Aldridge: partner organizations. I'm your host, Faydra Aldridge . This podcast would not
Faydra Aldridge: be possible without the support of the entire community. From
Faydra Aldridge: the bottom of our hearts, we want to thank you
Faydra Aldridge: for caring about mental illness together. We truly can make
Faydra Aldridge: a difference. OK, we're back with Dr Diane McIntosh, psychiatrist, educator,
Faydra Aldridge: author and speaker, Dr McIntosh, I'd like to share a
Faydra Aldridge: few thoughts with you now from members of a panel
Faydra Aldridge: that we've compiled. They're made up of families, of people
Faydra Aldridge: with mental illness. We asked them to talk about when
Faydra Aldridge: they first knew that something was not right with their
Faydra Aldridge: loved one. And we're going to hear some of those thoughts.
Faydra Aldridge: It takes a while to arrive at the full diagnosis
Faydra Aldridge: of schizophrenia, so we've had some some confusing times, especially recently,
Faydra Aldridge: about
Dr. Diane McIntosh: is this schizophrenia? Is it somewhere on the path, the schizophrenia?
Faydra Aldridge: You know, we're not entirely sure because it certainly does
Faydra Aldridge: look and have a lot of the symptoms of schizophrenia.
S3: Things are really difficult around the house. It was really,
S3: really difficult to have them at home by then. And
S3: he often left and he ended up in Vancouver and
S3: then just disappeared for basically the next six months. He
S3: got through a year
Faydra Aldridge: of university, was in place and volunteering and then bam!
Faydra Aldridge: Think straight and the voices, and it was living hell
Faydra Aldridge: to watch him descend, he started to
Dr. Diane McIntosh: experience symptoms in high school,
S4: but we're not really sure when. I think it's classic
S4: for a lot of young people to just hide the
S4: confusion and the fear. And so we're guessing it was
S4: a couple of years, but he was 20 when he
S4: started to really exhibit symptoms that were impossible to ignore.
S3: We made contact with police. Eventually he had a run
S3: in with the law and they contacted us and we
S3: sent a bus ticket and got them home. And that's
S3: when we became aware of how really ill he was,
S5: OK I live in South Surrey and I have four sons, three
S5: of whom have Schizophrenia. And so for about five years
S5: we were in crisis. Every day, two of them, there's
S5: been violence involved. One has tried to kill me, has
S5: been in the criminal justice system charged with attempted murder.
S5: One is fairly docile and gentle. We've experienced probably almost
S5: anything a family could have with schizophrenia.
S4: I don't know why I did. I did always kind
S4: of feel like something like if there was one of
S4: my kids was going to be wrong, it was going
S4: to be with him. And so I had actually always
S4: been asking him, do you hear voices?
S3: Once he was charged and went to court, then the
S3: probation system got involved and realized how sick he was and,
S3: and forced him into the hospital. And that's when we
S3: found out that he was schizophrenic.
S4: So I was not terribly surprised when it happened, but
S4: I was very frustrated with not getting a diagnosis right
S4: away because they don't want to label you. And I
S4: kept sort of saying, you know, all I need to
S4: know is what's wrong. I can deal with whatever it is.
S4: I just need to know what it is.
Faydra Aldridge: Those are just some of the thoughts that we've heard
Faydra Aldridge: and Dr. McIntosh, you probably hear a lot within your practice,
Faydra Aldridge: they just want to know what it is. And I
Faydra Aldridge: know a lot of families, there's a lot of confusion
Faydra Aldridge: when they first hear the term schizophrenia or that their
Faydra Aldridge: loved one has been diagnosed with a severe and persistent
Faydra Aldridge: mental illness. Perhaps they're in denial or confused or they
Faydra Aldridge: mistook the symptoms for being something else, or they believe
Faydra Aldridge: that medication wasn't necessary or they didn't think it was serious.
Faydra Aldridge: What do you think is behind this reluctance or inability
Faydra Aldridge: or sometimes even denial to face the reality of mental illness?
Dr. Diane McIntosh: I think it's terrifying, honestly. I mean, as a parent,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: knowing what the worry that you have about your child
Dr. Diane McIntosh: and it's not just the parent that's terrified. The child
Dr. Diane McIntosh: is terrified. They're often having and I think one of
Dr. Diane McIntosh: the parents actually articulated that how, how scared they were.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: We're not even sure when the symptoms started. I'm sure
Dr. Diane McIntosh: that he was worried that he had these scary experiences,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: but it didn't become really clear until he was 20.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: So you have very confusing symptoms. You're -- you may be
Dr. Diane McIntosh: hearing voices. You're having unusual perceptual disturbances. Often your mood
Dr. Diane McIntosh: is low. So they're feeling on the depressed side may
Dr. Diane McIntosh: have a lot of anxiety as well. And so they
Dr. Diane McIntosh: isolate and parents are wondering, are they isolating because that's
Dr. Diane McIntosh: a normal teen thing to do or is there something
Dr. Diane McIntosh: going on? And if they're somewhat paranoid, then they might
Dr. Diane McIntosh: be afraid to say something. They're feeling somewhat directed by
Dr. Diane McIntosh: their voice. I knew it wasn't normal, so I didn't
Dr. Diane McIntosh: want to say anything because I was afraid. And so
Dr. Diane McIntosh: I think acknowledging that it is scary for everyone involved,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: it comes back to what the mom at the end said,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: which is I just wanted to know and everyone's afraid
Dr. Diane McIntosh: to label and maybe some of that fear of labeling
Dr. Diane McIntosh: comes from that's a big word, schizophrenia because of all
Dr. Diane McIntosh: the emotion behind it. Rather than saying all of these pieces,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: I'm not exactly sure. And sometimes I'm not sure. Sometimes
Dr. Diane McIntosh: I'm not sure. This bipolar disorder, is it schizophrenia? Is
Dr. Diane McIntosh: this related to cannabis use or some other drug use?
Dr. Diane McIntosh: So it can be confusing, but to say all of
Dr. Diane McIntosh: these pieces lead me to believe that this may be
Dr. Diane McIntosh: a possibility. At least parents have some sense of where
Dr. Diane McIntosh: we're going.
Faydra Aldridge: So, Dr. McIntosh, how do we know the difference? How
Faydra Aldridge: do we know? So when you have parents coming to
Faydra Aldridge: you and they say my child is different, or if
Faydra Aldridge: you have an individual coming to you saying, I'm just
Faydra Aldridge: not feeling quite right, but maybe it's just because I'm
Faydra Aldridge: a little bit sad because my girlfriend broke up with
Faydra Aldridge: me or I didn't get my mark on my exam.
Faydra Aldridge: How do we know when it's a problem?
Dr. Diane McIntosh: If we're talking specifically about schizophrenia? Again, you go back
Dr. Diane McIntosh: to what what is the diagnosis? What are the constellation
Dr. Diane McIntosh: of symptoms that tend to group together to lead me
Dr. Diane McIntosh: to believe that that person has a diagnosis of schizophrenia?
Dr. Diane McIntosh: And the most common things that people experience, especially if
Dr. Diane McIntosh: they're really young, is a change in behavior that withdrawing
Dr. Diane McIntosh: being more quiet, maybe more down. You can have certainly irritability, explosiveness,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: a lot of frustration, but then those symptoms that are
Dr. Diane McIntosh: quite unique to schizophrenia, having auditory hallucinations, and then there's
Dr. Diane McIntosh: the delusions, the false beliefs, and they can start at
Dr. Diane McIntosh: the same time. They can start at different times. They
Dr. Diane McIntosh: can change over time. But those false beliefs associated with
Dr. Diane McIntosh: schizophrenia are most often, again, mean scary. People are trying
Dr. Diane McIntosh: to harm me. Maybe they're out to get me having
Dr. Diane McIntosh: these beliefs. What makes a delusion different than sort of
Dr. Diane McIntosh: I wonder, could it be, is that despite all kinds
Dr. Diane McIntosh: of evidence, people still hold on to a clearly false belief?
Faydra Aldridge: One of the families that we heard there, she said
Faydra Aldridge: that she felt that something was wrong, that if there
Faydra Aldridge: was going to be something wrong with any of her children,
Faydra Aldridge: it was that particular child. What advice do you have?
Faydra Aldridge: So if somebody is sensing, um -- sensing something is wrong
Faydra Aldridge: with their child, their partner, their parent. What advice do
Faydra Aldridge: you have for them if they suspect a serious mental illness?
Dr. Diane McIntosh: A long time ago, I stopped asking my children "how
Dr. Diane McIntosh: was your day?" I ask my children and it started when
Dr. Diane McIntosh: they were in elementary school, "Tell me about your day,"
Dr. Diane McIntosh: because the way that you get your kids to talk
Dr. Diane McIntosh: to you and create that safe environment is, of course,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: loving them and trying to limit the chaos in your home.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: And the poor gentleman who has three of his four
Dr. Diane McIntosh: sons with schizophrenia, how do you reduce chaos in a
Dr. Diane McIntosh: situation like that? So I am not saying that lightly.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: When I say a loving, non-chaotic environment is the best,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: most nurturing environment for a growing brain. But it's not
Dr. Diane McIntosh: necessarily easy to eliminate chaos in your home, but. Having
Dr. Diane McIntosh: those daily times, when you put your phone down, you
Dr. Diane McIntosh: look at your kid and say, tell me about your day,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: that is the way that even on the most boring
Dr. Diane McIntosh: day and even in the most busy day that you
Dr. Diane McIntosh: sit there and listen and it might be two minutes
Dr. Diane McIntosh: and it might be seven minutes or twenty seven, but
Dr. Diane McIntosh: as they get older, they will have those conversations with you.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: And if your gut is saying something's not right, but
Dr. Diane McIntosh: your child, especially your teenager, sort of reacting strongly, the
Dr. Diane McIntosh: conversation would be you don't seem quite yourself. And of course,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: I always love you. There will never be any judgment.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: But I think we've always found that when we talk
Dr. Diane McIntosh: about things, It always help to make it feel better.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: So when you're ready, I am here. But you know,
Dr. Diane McIntosh: I'm not going to push you. But I'm always here
Dr. Diane McIntosh: and there's no judgment. I will always love you. The
Dr. Diane McIntosh: other thing to say is if you're worried and you
Dr. Diane McIntosh: say we're going to take you to the family doctor
Dr. Diane McIntosh: or access care in some way and you feel that
Dr. Diane McIntosh: you're not treated respectfully, you're not heard, it's it's not
Dr. Diane McIntosh: a good experience. Please don't give up. There is always
Dr. Diane McIntosh: a path forward. And I think people do have negative
Dr. Diane McIntosh: experiences that send them off course. And just to remind
Dr. Diane McIntosh: you that there are good people out there, and if
Dr. Diane McIntosh: you don't feel that you're being heard or respected, please
Dr. Diane McIntosh: keep trying.
Faydra Aldridge: That's what I heard you just say there is to
Faydra Aldridge: keep talking. And I think that's the key. Let's keep
Faydra Aldridge: talking about it. Whether it be with you in your
Faydra Aldridge: own family, your children coming to you as mom and saying,
Faydra Aldridge: here's my day, here's what's happening within individual families, but
Faydra Aldridge: also us as a society. And that's what I'm so
Faydra Aldridge: happy and so thrilled. We have this opportunity to talk today, Dr. McIntosh,
Faydra Aldridge: and for you to be the first guest on this podcast,
Faydra Aldridge: which is very exciting. What a fascinating conversation. I could
Faydra Aldridge: talk to you all day, but thank you so much
Faydra Aldridge: for taking the time to speak with me today. And
Faydra Aldridge: for more information about everything you just said, I know
Faydra Aldridge: you can get all the information on your website w
Faydra Aldridge: w w dot Dr. Diane with one 'n' McIntosh dot com.
Faydra Aldridge: And if you missed that, we're also going to be
Faydra Aldridge: putting a link on the BCSS website, which is w
Faydra Aldridge: w w dot BCSS dot dog. OK, Dr. Macintosh, thank you so much.
Dr. Diane McIntosh: Truly my pleasure. Thank you.
Faydra Aldridge: This podcast is brought to you by the BC Schizophrenia
Faydra Aldridge: Society and the B.C. Partners for Mental Health and Substance
Faydra Aldridge: Use Information, where a group of non-profit agencies providing good
Faydra Aldridge: quality information to help individuals and families maintain or improve
Faydra Aldridge: their mental well-being. The B.C. Partners Members are Anxiety. Canada,
Faydra Aldridge: BC Schizophrenia Society, Canadian Institute for Substance Use Research. Canadian
Faydra Aldridge: Mental Health Associations, B.C. Division, Family Smart, Jessie's Legacy, the
Faydra Aldridge: North Shore Family Services Program and Mood Disorders Association of B.C.,
Faydra Aldridge: a branch of Lookout, Housing and Health Society. The B.C.
Faydra Aldridge: partners are funded and stewarded by B.C. Mental Health and
Faydra Aldridge: Substance Use Services, an agency of the Provincial Health Services Authority.
Faydra Aldridge: For more information, visit Here to Help dot B.C. dot C.A