Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Jamie and Caitlin here, we just wanted to
Speaker 1: give a quick content warning. At the top of this episode.
Speaker 1: We are talking about promising young woman today, UM, and
Speaker 1: so there's gonna be a content warning for UM sexual abuse.
Speaker 1: There is uh we which we tried our best, but
Speaker 1: there are obviously some descriptions UM that take place within
Speaker 1: the movie. And we just want everyone to take care
Speaker 1: of themselves. Yes. Indeed, on the Bell Cast, the questions
Speaker 1: asked if movies have women in them, are all their
Speaker 1: discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism
Speaker 1: the patriarchy zef in best start changing it with the
Speaker 1: Bedel Cast. Hello and welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My
Speaker 1: name is Caitlin Durante. My name's Jamie Loftus, and this
Speaker 1: is our podcast where we discuss movies that you won't
Speaker 1: stop asking us to cover from an intersectional lens and
Speaker 1: then sometimes movies the you know, in the case of
Speaker 1: the Human Centipede, for example, that um no one asked
Speaker 1: us to cover. Are you sure about that? I would
Speaker 1: check the numbers and I think there was a good
Speaker 1: to three hundred to three hundred thousand. Yes. Our listenership
Speaker 1: is just astronomical and just really wanted to know how
Speaker 1: we felt about um feminism in The Human Centipede spoiler alert,
Speaker 1: it's perfect. So it's a feminist masterpieces, as you heard
Speaker 1: on that episode. But today today's movie falls into the
Speaker 1: category of um. Our listeners were relentless to the point
Speaker 1: where I was like, I don't want to do it,
Speaker 1: and then it was like, well, we we're doing it.
Speaker 1: We're doing it here, we are the Betel cast, and
Speaker 1: and and so we we um. We analyze movies using
Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lend, jumping off from the Bechdel test.
Speaker 1: But what is that, Caitlin and Way, Well, gee whiz,
Speaker 1: I'm happy to tell you. It is a media metric
Speaker 1: created by queer cartoonist Alison Becktel, sometimes called the Bechtel
Speaker 1: Wallace Test, that, for our purposes are little version of
Speaker 1: the test um. Two people of a marginalized gender have
Speaker 1: to have names, and they have to speak to each
Speaker 1: other about something other than a man for a meaningful
Speaker 1: conversation is what we're going with these days. Sure, so
Speaker 1: some movies do it with ease. Others simply have never
Speaker 1: thought of the concept of women of people talking to
Speaker 1: each other I'm sick to even think about it really truly.
Speaker 1: So yes, that is that's the show. Um. Today's episode
Speaker 1: is Promising Young Woman, which I understand why we got
Speaker 1: so many requests. Yes, a lot to discuss, yes, but
Speaker 1: also I'm mad at all of you. It's it's a
Speaker 1: very challenging movie. Um. And we have a guest joining
Speaker 1: us that we're delighted to have. She is a comedian
Speaker 1: actor writer. She voices a couple of characters in Riyah
Speaker 1: in the Last Dragon. She's a writer on Close Enough
Speaker 1: on HBO Max. It's Sierra Coudo. Hello, Hey, thanks for
Speaker 1: having me. We're excited to be here. We are so
Speaker 1: excited to have you. So normally we do like, what's
Speaker 1: your like history with this movie, but since it's such
Speaker 1: a new release, I guess tell us you're just kind
Speaker 1: of like general notion of the movie, general thoughts and
Speaker 1: feelings surrounding it. Sure. Yeah, I mean I think I
Speaker 1: I really liked it. I had just watched it, like
Speaker 1: without knowing anything about it, which was, you know, kay
Speaker 1: of a lot to take in obviously, because it's like
Speaker 1: if you don't know the cover that the cover of
Speaker 1: the movie is like girl with like kind of pastel colors,
Speaker 1: and I don't know, you know, I was just like, Okay, interesting,
Speaker 1: I wonder what this is gonna be about. But like
Speaker 1: Carrie Mulligan and like the fact that, you know, it
Speaker 1: seems to be nominated for a lot of stuff that's good. Um.
Speaker 1: So then I watched it, and then I watched it
Speaker 1: again almost like the next day, because I was so
Speaker 1: um yeah, I was just like so intrigued by it
Speaker 1: and the fact that, um, you know, I guess movies
Speaker 1: with those heavy topics sometimes you've got to watch it
Speaker 1: again just to be like, oh wait, I gotta catch
Speaker 1: what everything, you know, what was going on? Because now
Speaker 1: I know what it's actually about. So so yeah, nice,
Speaker 1: um Jamie, what about what about you? This was this
Speaker 1: is honestly, this was a tough movie for for me.
Speaker 1: Not because I think it's not good. I think it's
Speaker 1: very good. Um, and I really enjoyed, uh well enjoyed
Speaker 1: maybe isn't. I didn't enjoy watching this movie either time
Speaker 1: I watched did. I had a really horrible time. I
Speaker 1: just uh, yeah, I I this is like a movie
Speaker 1: that hits very close to home for me in a
Speaker 1: way that is like just tough I don't know. I
Speaker 1: tried to kind of prepare myself going into it and
Speaker 1: made sure I had like a clearish idea of um
Speaker 1: of what was going on, but it was, I don't know.
Speaker 1: The first time I saw this movie, it was at
Speaker 1: a drive in for some reason. I mean the reason
Speaker 1: was COVID but also horrible movie to see you to
Speaker 1: drive in. Uh. And and it just like it truly
Speaker 1: did like trigger a lot in me. I I don't
Speaker 1: really want to get too too into it, but I
Speaker 1: like had an experience with campus assault that is not
Speaker 1: identical to promising young woman in any way, but but
Speaker 1: a lot of the dynamics at play were very similar,
Speaker 1: and it seems to have happened around a similar time
Speaker 1: ish that the reference thing. It just the specificity with
Speaker 1: which it it just it was really hard. H So
Speaker 1: by the first I finished watching the movie, I honestly
Speaker 1: had no idea if I liked it, didn't like it
Speaker 1: or anything. I just was like really affected by it,
Speaker 1: and it like really fucked me up. And I texted you, Caitlin,
Speaker 1: and I said, I do not want to cover this
Speaker 1: movie on the show. Like it just was so I
Speaker 1: don't know, like, and I it's even I don't I
Speaker 1: still have this like tiny edge lord inside of me
Speaker 1: that is like, don't say triggered, But that was the response.
Speaker 1: It was like it just sucked me up for two
Speaker 1: days seeing this movie and just brought up all these
Speaker 1: um old bad feelings, you know. And but but after
Speaker 1: a while it was like, you know, I've I think
Speaker 1: it's been like two months ish since I first I
Speaker 1: saw it, like pretty close to when it was released,
Speaker 1: and I, you know, it just like seems like, okay,
Speaker 1: you know what, the requests aren't going to stop coming.
Speaker 1: It is Uh, it is an important movie, you know,
Speaker 1: an important current movie, I think, and um, Sierra is
Speaker 1: like I couldn't think of a better guest to talk
Speaker 1: about it with. And so yeah, going back through it
Speaker 1: this time, UM, I feel like I experienced it as
Speaker 1: a as a viewer and not as like a person
Speaker 1: trying to keep their brain in check. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: have a lot of thoughts. I will say that if
Speaker 1: you haven't seen this movie and this is like a
Speaker 1: triggering topic for you, like definitely tread lightly. I kind
Speaker 1: of wish I knew a little more going into the
Speaker 1: first thing, or I wouldn't have For example, seen it
Speaker 1: at a drive in or even seen it with another person.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it is very sensitive stuff. And if
Speaker 1: this is like a topic that is particularly difficult for you,
Speaker 1: take care of yourself. I wish I had taken a
Speaker 1: little better care of myself the first time. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: there's so much to talk about, Caitlin, What's what's your experiences? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I had a similar kind of reaction to the movie
Speaker 1: in the sense that I did not enjoy myself while
Speaker 1: I was watching it. I recognize that it's a good
Speaker 1: movie that is like well crafted and tackles a lot
Speaker 1: of important things worth tackling, But I I just I
Speaker 1: was very challenged by it regarding like some of the
Speaker 1: things that happened in the story. I also found it triggering,
Speaker 1: and I I don't want to watch it again. I'll
Speaker 1: say that that's a trick. Yeah, It's like the kind
Speaker 1: of movie where it's like, I love it, it's important.
Speaker 1: I never want to look at it ever again. Um,
Speaker 1: but I would. I would hope that just based on
Speaker 1: what I've you know, gathered about um Emerald Vanelle question,
Speaker 1: we may never know, shrug, But based on what I've gathered,
Speaker 1: like around her interviews, that does seem like something she
Speaker 1: wouldn't have a problem with. I don't know, Like, I
Speaker 1: think she's so cool and like so gutsy and brave
Speaker 1: for having made a movie like this, and the performances
Speaker 1: are incredible, Like I really really like it, but I
Speaker 1: never want to watch it again because just one of
Speaker 1: those things. I'll listen to the soundtrack, great soundtrack, got
Speaker 1: a good great soundtrack track. Yeah, I feel like I
Speaker 1: I listened to a few interviews about it with her,
Speaker 1: and um, I think that was also helpful because it
Speaker 1: kind of was like, you know, certain decisions that they
Speaker 1: that she made honestly like her talking about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think was like, oh, this is a good way
Speaker 1: to like unpack this without having to like relive through
Speaker 1: the scenes or any of that totally. And like, so
Speaker 1: this movie is. It was originally supposed to be theatrically
Speaker 1: released in I think April, which obviously we got quite
Speaker 1: about this movie years ago. I remember I was talking
Speaker 1: about this like late, like it's going to be good,
Speaker 1: and I like I had seen the trailer like what
Speaker 1: felt like dozens of times, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: like this is going to be so good and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna love it and I don't. I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: know exactly what I was expecting, but it didn't quite
Speaker 1: match up with what the movie ended up being. Caitlin. Okay,
Speaker 1: a huge spoiler alert if you haven't seen the movie,
Speaker 1: but like, did you not expect perhaps for the protagonist
Speaker 1: to be brutally murdered at the end of the movie,
Speaker 1: Because I certainly did not expect that. I will say
Speaker 1: I did not expect that, And again that's not even
Speaker 1: a criticism. I think that that is like an incredibly
Speaker 1: like not cool, you know, all things considered filmmaking choice.
Speaker 1: But it was like I was expecting, like revenge movie
Speaker 1: where where she wins. I was also expecting that, you know,
Speaker 1: one of those I actually, well, okay, like does that
Speaker 1: is a tough word like that to know. But I
Speaker 1: think what I appreciated about that ending, and I think
Speaker 1: this is something I also appreciated more when I heard
Speaker 1: Um the director talk about it, is that it made
Speaker 1: because because it is just so sad, it feels the
Speaker 1: most realistic, just from my own perspective that it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: sure I would love to I don't know, I guess
Speaker 1: have revenge in these situations, but I just don't do
Speaker 1: that because I out of safety, you know. And then
Speaker 1: I think that like sometimes when the revenge does happen,
Speaker 1: that makes me almost feel worse because I'm like, well, god,
Speaker 1: I guess I should just do that, you know. But
Speaker 1: then obviously this kind of clarifies like, Okay, I think
Speaker 1: we're doing this out of survival if we're letting it
Speaker 1: go or not even letting it go. But you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like I think it did show that,
Speaker 1: like this is kind of another way that these outcomes
Speaker 1: can happen in movies hopefully, right, um, But yeah, so
Speaker 1: I don't know if it almost kind of like presented
Speaker 1: another way. I guess also speaking from a survivor's perspective myself,
Speaker 1: I guess it does feel like, you know, the relationship
Speaker 1: that I have with that is like, well, I guess
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe I could have done more to
Speaker 1: prevent this, right, And so then I think that kind
Speaker 1: of was like okay, or or that could end very badly.
Speaker 1: We don't have a lot of choices, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't have a lot of like options here. So
Speaker 1: I kind of appreciated it for that, even though totally brutal,
Speaker 1: what actually went down in the scene right just like whoa, um, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I I totally hear you. And it's it's one of
Speaker 1: those endings where in the movie Parallel, I'm coming up
Speaker 1: with I really hope that someone could think of a
Speaker 1: better one. But um, just a movie in which, like
Speaker 1: there is this quest that like an oppressed characters on
Speaker 1: and at the end they lose. It doesn't necessarily mean
Speaker 1: that that is like not it may it may not
Speaker 1: mean it's an empowering story, but it doesn't mean it's
Speaker 1: not an important or impactful story. And fortunately, when I'm
Speaker 1: thinking of as Rosemary's baby, and that's not great, but
Speaker 1: that that you know, if you think about like Rosemary's
Speaker 1: quest to overcome this, she's met with only obstacles, and
Speaker 1: at the end she fails in that quest, and it's
Speaker 1: like she is crushed under the pressure that she's been
Speaker 1: you know, pushing against, and that I feel like it's
Speaker 1: like a similar thing that happens to to Cassie. She
Speaker 1: does everything she possibly could do and it's just it's
Speaker 1: too much, like it's too much for one person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the movie I kept coming back to is like a
Speaker 1: comparison was Thelman Louise, let's go with that. But I
Speaker 1: don't think your example is bad. I think like they're
Speaker 1: major similarities between all of these types. But it also
Speaker 1: just goes to show that we need more stories about
Speaker 1: this that explore different coping mechanisms, different outcomes, different ways
Speaker 1: in which trauma is dealt with, and so that we
Speaker 1: just see a wide variety of possibilities, because I think
Speaker 1: there's there's like a tendency to assume, oh, well, if
Speaker 1: this has happened to you, if you're a survivor, here's
Speaker 1: the way to do it, here's the way to deal
Speaker 1: with it. So and it's never just a like one
Speaker 1: path that anyone's going to take, you know. So the
Speaker 1: more and again, I don't necessarily want to watch all
Speaker 1: of these movies all the time. Here's the twelve movies
Speaker 1: you asked for, Kalin, but there is a need for,
Speaker 1: you know, just different explorations of this story. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: so that was that, and I know I know this,
Speaker 1: we're we're structuring this episode slightly differently, but it's just
Speaker 1: there's so much heavy ship even before we talk about
Speaker 1: what happens in the movie. Um, something that was like
Speaker 1: sticking out to me and the way that this movie
Speaker 1: was reviewed was there was a lot of speculation on
Speaker 1: like whether the protagonist Cassie, who is on this you know,
Speaker 1: perhaps disorganized revenge mission, but like, but but this protagonist Cassie,
Speaker 1: um if like is she a good person or not?
Speaker 1: Which I feel like is not something that we ask
Speaker 1: of like male revenge protagonists. And so there were I
Speaker 1: I have a few quotes that I can bring up
Speaker 1: later in the episode because I just don't care to
Speaker 1: scroll at this moment. But but yeah, just a lot
Speaker 1: of speculation on like well, like in this revenge movie,
Speaker 1: you know, she's not like a perfect you know, she's
Speaker 1: not the perfect person. And it's like, yeah, when have
Speaker 1: you have you ever said that about like a movie?
Speaker 1: Like what do you just even? I don't know. It's
Speaker 1: it's so interesting too because it's like this movie he
Speaker 1: literally just came out and you still see those like
Speaker 1: to me, they just like feel like bizarre questions to
Speaker 1: be asking, and they're a little pointed and like, oh,
Speaker 1: this person seek revenge is not completely pure and but
Speaker 1: so fucking what like since when is that the promise
Speaker 1: of a movie like this? Like it's just such a
Speaker 1: bizarre even like premise. I don't know truly, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: hadn't seen those and then well, I mean this is
Speaker 1: something we can also talk about. But you know, there
Speaker 1: was that critic who deservedly got a lot of backlash
Speaker 1: for who like wrote that review in Variety being like, well,
Speaker 1: Carrie Mulligan wasn't pretty enough to play this character, and
Speaker 1: like for that to be criticism in a major publication
Speaker 1: that is happening in the years draft that you get
Speaker 1: rid of, sir, Like, that's that's not a publishable thing
Speaker 1: to say. Oh god, um, people's reactions. Uh still need
Speaker 1: work things, so um anyway should I I'm going to
Speaker 1: do a kind of shorter, less detailed, more condensed version
Speaker 1: of the recap just in the interest of keeping things
Speaker 1: kind of tight. Um, we just don't want to like
Speaker 1: talk about this movie for two and a half hours.
Speaker 1: We could, but in the interest of everyone's mental health,
Speaker 1: we're not going to wait. Jamie Pitch, remember how we
Speaker 1: did a nearly three hour episode on the Santa Claus three. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't see why we can't do the same thing
Speaker 1: for that. Here's my other I've just got, Uh, Santa
Speaker 1: Claus three is good for your mental health? What about
Speaker 1: that two hour episode on Flubber? What about that three episode? Wait,
Speaker 1: Santa Claus three? Is that the one with Jack Frost
Speaker 1: that you are correct? Thank god? So scared I was
Speaker 1: gonna get that wrong. Um, then of course you gotta
Speaker 1: do at least an hour and a half on that
Speaker 1: Jack Frost. Good, then your get Okay, So here's the recap,
Speaker 1: and um, just trigger warning for this recap as well
Speaker 1: as what I imagine will be a large chunk of
Speaker 1: the discussion. Trigger warning of rape and sexual assault. Okay,
Speaker 1: So we meet Cassie. That's Carrie Mulligan, who routinely does
Speaker 1: a thing where she goes to a nightclub pretending to
Speaker 1: be very drunk. She waits for a man to come
Speaker 1: over to her under the pretense of helping her. Um brody,
Speaker 1: but yeah, we warrant dating. It is Seth Cohen. When
Speaker 1: he inevitably takes her home and tries to take advantage
Speaker 1: of her, Cassie drops the act of her pretending to
Speaker 1: be drunk and teaches him a lesson. We see her
Speaker 1: do this with a few different characters throughout the movie. Um.
Speaker 1: Early on, she bumps into Ryan played by Bo Burnham,
Speaker 1: a former classmate of hers from med school, which we
Speaker 1: learned she dropped out of. He asks her out. They
Speaker 1: go on a couple of dates. He brings up Med school.
Speaker 1: He wants to know why she dropped out. He mentions
Speaker 1: a couple students that they used to be classmates with,
Speaker 1: including Madison McPhee and al Monroe. Thus begins Cassie Kathy
Speaker 1: Mulligan carrying out Cassi. Cassie Mulligan first simplus City Cathy
Speaker 1: Mulligan her carrying out a revenge plot cassying out Cassi.
Speaker 1: It's okay, we all make mistakes. Um. What had happened
Speaker 1: is that Cassie's best friend Nina was raped in med
Speaker 1: school by Al Monroe, which led to her dropping out,
Speaker 1: which led to Cassie dropping out, and which eventually led
Speaker 1: to Nina's death right which we don't fully know yet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't fully know. So this revenge plot includes Cassie
Speaker 1: teaching a lesson to Madison UM, who's played by Alison Bree.
Speaker 1: She didn't and still does not believe, you know, the
Speaker 1: circumstances of what happened. She didn't believe Nino when she
Speaker 1: came to Madison for help. Cassie then teaches a lesson
Speaker 1: to the dean of the Med School Baby Connie Britten.
Speaker 1: Character actors are out in this movie also a lot
Speaker 1: of comedians or comedic actors especially, and like the guys
Speaker 1: who were played or who were cast to play like
Speaker 1: the creepy men. Yeah, I mean Sam Richardson fedor Sam Richardson,
Speaker 1: what a moment? What a moment? Indeed Coke adult Christopher
Speaker 1: Min's plassy, Oh yeah, make oven. How's a scene of
Speaker 1: like it's almost like I always wonder if I wonder
Speaker 1: if she's spoken to this. It almost seems like Emerald
Speaker 1: Vanelle like cast all these familiar feeling faces in all
Speaker 1: these roles of like people that you knew from like
Speaker 1: the two thousands and early two thousand tents, and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I know this person, I trust this person, and then
Speaker 1: it's like, guess what they are horrible. Um Cassie teaches
Speaker 1: a lesson to Dean Walker, who had dismissed Nina when
Speaker 1: she reported the crime to her. Um. Cassie also goes
Speaker 1: to the lawyer played by Jamie It's Al for Molina,
Speaker 1: al f Molina. His scene is two minutes long, but
Speaker 1: the impact is I'm like, was he on set for
Speaker 1: three hours, We don't know. Probably we can imagine it
Speaker 1: was maybe a day or two. Um, but his impact,
Speaker 1: you know, as always, I mean, honestly I have opinions
Speaker 1: on the way his characters treated, but but you in
Speaker 1: terms of was the performance there, the pathos he's on
Speaker 1: his knees, honestly, Okay, if there, If I had no
Speaker 1: context for what this movie is about, seeing Alfred Blena
Speaker 1: open that door and be like, I've been expecting you
Speaker 1: is a dream I've had. I want you to someday
Speaker 1: knock on his door and he opens it, and you say, Alfred,
Speaker 1: it's your day of reckoning, which just means that it's
Speaker 1: just the beginning of your and his romantic relationship. And
Speaker 1: he says, I've been expecting you, and it's like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, this is great. And then once inside it
Speaker 1: goes much differently. Yeah, of course. Anyway, so this lawyer
Speaker 1: is the one who defended al Monroe and who bullied
Speaker 1: Nina until she dropped her case. And Cassie's goal with
Speaker 1: all of these things is to get these people to
Speaker 1: reframe their thinking regarding assault and victim blaming and believing women. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Cassie and Ryan are getting closer and falling in love.
Speaker 1: There's a Paris Hilton stars are blind song about it,
Speaker 1: which I almost forgot existed, but we but it's important
Speaker 1: that we don't forget. And so I'm glad I was there.
Speaker 1: I mean I was glad to be reminded of it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Then Madison comes back and gives Cassie a phone with
Speaker 1: a video on it of Nina being assaulted um something
Speaker 1: that had been sent around to the various like med
Speaker 1: school classmates. After this assault took place, Cassie discovers that
Speaker 1: her boyfriend Ryan was one of the people watching this
Speaker 1: take place. She basically blackmails him to get information on
Speaker 1: where Alman rose bachelor party is, which she goes to
Speaker 1: to enact the final piece of her revenge plot, where
Speaker 1: she confronts al Monroe for what he did to Nina
Speaker 1: and him not wanting his reputation and life to be
Speaker 1: ruined by this, he attacks and suffocates Cassie to death.
Speaker 1: He and his friend a k a. Max Greenfield get
Speaker 1: rid of the body together, but Cassie anticipated something like
Speaker 1: this might happen to her, so she had arranged for
Speaker 1: the evidence that she had to be sent to Alfred
Speaker 1: Molina's character to report it to the police, which leads
Speaker 1: to al Monroe being arrested for Cassie's murder. And that
Speaker 1: is how the movie ends. So let's take a quick
Speaker 1: break and we will come back to discuss and we're back. Um, Sierra,
Speaker 1: is there anything in particular you would like to start
Speaker 1: with or we can we can kind of jump in
Speaker 1: from any which angle. Oh um m m oh. I know,
Speaker 1: maybe we could talk about like the sort of easter
Speaker 1: eggs along the way of knowing that maybe Brian was
Speaker 1: not this good guy, or just talking about the concept
Speaker 1: of like the good guy that they kind of played
Speaker 1: with in this movie. Oh my god, I that was
Speaker 1: like one of the things I liked the most about
Speaker 1: this movie was like the deconstruction and sometimes it's a
Speaker 1: little heavy handed, but like the deconstruction of the of
Speaker 1: the nice guy is not something you see very often.
Speaker 1: I don't think this is the first time we've seen it,
Speaker 1: but it's it's definitely not something that happens often in
Speaker 1: a movie that gets a ton of like acclaim and
Speaker 1: and like is given a lot of positive attention. And
Speaker 1: we've talked about this on the show a lot of
Speaker 1: how like when when um, I don't know, but I
Speaker 1: mean there's like two things that play here. The first
Speaker 1: is like when there is an assault on a woman
Speaker 1: in a movie, you know, very often it's by this
Speaker 1: like it's a stranger, it's stranger danger, or it's like
Speaker 1: someone who is like who in an average male viewer
Speaker 1: will definitely not see themselves in. And it's like the
Speaker 1: whole like twisty mustache, like pure evil villain that is
Speaker 1: like unrecognizable to anyone, or just like huge musclely guy
Speaker 1: that's like a henchman or whatever it is, right, and
Speaker 1: then and then also the fact that the woman is
Speaker 1: assaulted becomes her like the only thing about her. But
Speaker 1: what I what I like about this movie a lot
Speaker 1: is it takes a lot of different like very like
Speaker 1: specific examples that are like, oh, god, of of guys
Speaker 1: that think they're nice and have been conditioned to think
Speaker 1: they're and I but have also been conditioned to mistreat
Speaker 1: women and you know, assault them and do different degrees
Speaker 1: of abuse and manipulation and exerting their authority over women
Speaker 1: while still thinking they're nice guys. Like it's so frustrating,
Speaker 1: but it's so well written. I thought, Yeah, I have
Speaker 1: to say that the first time I watched it, I
Speaker 1: did not see Ryan like the reveal that he is
Speaker 1: an absolute piece of shit. I do not see it coming.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, and maybe it's just because I
Speaker 1: like bo burn him a lot, But I was like, no, boh,
Speaker 1: don't be like that, which I think that just means
Speaker 1: that that character was handled really effectively. Um, because like
Speaker 1: Jamie you were saying, and we we have talked about
Speaker 1: this a lot on the show, although I think we
Speaker 1: it comes up more in our like Matreon Patreon episodes
Speaker 1: than in the main feed. But um, there is this
Speaker 1: tendency to paint characters who are abusers and predators as
Speaker 1: being so cartoonishly evil that no one could possibly recognize
Speaker 1: them or see themselves in them. So when you present
Speaker 1: a character like Ryan who is like goofy and funny
Speaker 1: and endearing, then you're not expecting him to end up
Speaker 1: being like a rape apologist. UM. So I thought that
Speaker 1: was effective the way that character was handled. But then,
Speaker 1: like you said, Sia, in terms of like those little
Speaker 1: easter eggs, those little hints to get planted along the way,
Speaker 1: I honestly like did not fully notice them until I
Speaker 1: rewatched the movie, and I was like, Oh, he's kind
Speaker 1: of stalking her. He's not taking no for an answer,
Speaker 1: he's wearing her down. And he's also like constantly anytime
Speaker 1: these guys come up, are like they're not that bad,
Speaker 1: like which I that was like her really stuck classic
Speaker 1: al right right, Like and anytime al comes up, it's
Speaker 1: like this. I don't even know if there's a word
Speaker 1: for it or a phrase for it, but it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not great, but also it's not that bad, like
Speaker 1: this weird like wishy washy, Like I don't want to
Speaker 1: deal with this, I don't want to have the conversation,
Speaker 1: so let's just move on. Anytime they come up, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that that really stuck out to me. On a second
Speaker 1: watch too, it's like, oh, yeah, he doesn't like he
Speaker 1: doesn't think anything of how these these guys act. Yeah,
Speaker 1: even like him saying even the way he addresses it too,
Speaker 1: it's almost like he does kind of um, he knows
Speaker 1: something's going to come up, so he gets ahead of it,
Speaker 1: you know, he's kind of like, oh yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: those guys can't get rid of him. It's almost like
Speaker 1: he has to apologize for just like hanging around them,
Speaker 1: so you know something's wrong, but it's like it's the
Speaker 1: way that oftentimes guys talk about their problematic friends. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like they know something's up, but there yeah, like
Speaker 1: you said, not willing to deal with it, so getting
Speaker 1: ahead of it by sort of minimizing it right away
Speaker 1: and then being like, but you know that's him or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's so like, I don't know. The second watch
Speaker 1: of this movie was, I mean, you really start to
Speaker 1: not like Ryan very much. He is like and it's
Speaker 1: it's frustrating because I mean but I think like he
Speaker 1: is like as funny, like not funny because they are
Speaker 1: like being really sexually aggressive, but in terms of like
Speaker 1: the specificity and the humor of like the Adam Brody
Speaker 1: character and the mcloven character who we see earlier in
Speaker 1: the movie being kind of like these just pompous asshole
Speaker 1: guys who feel entitled to having sex with a girl
Speaker 1: that they don't think is going to remember. Um, which
Speaker 1: is you know, like I mean that very much fits
Speaker 1: into this um this narrative. But in Ryan, you see
Speaker 1: like someone who yeah, like the movie fully gets you
Speaker 1: to to root for. I mean, I fee like the
Speaker 1: bow burn of casting that was really smart because you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's it's both Burnham, they're falling in love. And also
Speaker 1: like you want I mean that's like one of the
Speaker 1: really like gut wrenching things about this movie. For me,
Speaker 1: it's like you you want Cassie to have that, and
Speaker 1: like you like, oh, it's so awful when it's like
Speaker 1: it kind of like on on this watch was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess, like ultimately I don't know exactly what the
Speaker 1: movie is saying. I don't like whatever I but but
Speaker 1: like the fact that you know, Cassie very clearly deserves,
Speaker 1: you know, to have a you know, fulfilling connection with somebody,
Speaker 1: and and then when she does become vulnerable, and when
Speaker 1: she does trust herself with someone, it turns out to
Speaker 1: like reinforce her original viewpoint of the world, which was
Speaker 1: that you shouldn't trust anybody, and that like there there
Speaker 1: is just such a wide degree of complet a city
Speaker 1: that no one is safe no matter how much you
Speaker 1: want that connection, and it's such a like it's weak. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: gets start fast, yeah, because Cassie is engaging in some
Speaker 1: pretty self destructive behaviors. She's you know, consumed by the guilt,
Speaker 1: she feels the trauma that was inflicted upon her friend.
Speaker 1: She's bearing the brunt of some of that trauma. I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously this movie has an agenda. You know, it's a
Speaker 1: condemnation of rape culture. It's it's commentary on victim blaming.
Speaker 1: Like these things are all clear, But then the takeaway,
Speaker 1: I know, I'm similarly like, well, I guess it's like,
Speaker 1: you can you can stand up and fight the abusers
Speaker 1: and the rapists and like the larger rape culture and lose.
Speaker 1: There's a good chance you'll lose. Well that, yeah, but
Speaker 1: you did get him legally apprehended, I suppose, so I
Speaker 1: saw that as a win a little bit even the
Speaker 1: justice was served, but at the expense of the lives
Speaker 1: of two women, which doesn't feel great to me, right
Speaker 1: right sure. And also it's like, once a guy like
Speaker 1: al is in custody, is he really going to be
Speaker 1: prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Of course not,
Speaker 1: We've seen how those trials play out. Yeah, he's a
Speaker 1: rich white guy. He's gonna be like, he will probably
Speaker 1: go to you know, probably he'll probably be incarcerated for
Speaker 1: for a while. But will he you know, learn anything
Speaker 1: or be held to held to task for real. No,
Speaker 1: that like the I mean, but also I think that
Speaker 1: it is like kind of an like when I say that,
Speaker 1: I don't know what the takeaway of the movie is,
Speaker 1: that's an unreasonable expectation coming from me, is like why
Speaker 1: didn't Emerald Fanelle, one person give me the solution to
Speaker 1: conquering rape culture? Doesn't have that? None of us fucking
Speaker 1: have that. And so I I, Sarah, like referring back
Speaker 1: to what you were saying earlier about like how unfortunately,
Speaker 1: like what happens to Cassie is like a realistic outcome.
Speaker 1: It's not cathartic, but it is you know, like it
Speaker 1: was clearly a very likely possibility to the point where
Speaker 1: she recognized that and had planned for that, which also
Speaker 1: was just like such an oblique thing that she went
Speaker 1: into this knowing like pretty good chance. I don't get
Speaker 1: out of this alive. I mean, And and maybe that
Speaker 1: is the point is like you know, it's not a
Speaker 1: one person job. It just isn't. And there's not like
Speaker 1: one brave hero who is going to kill rape culture. True,
Speaker 1: it's just I mean, yeah, it was just not I
Speaker 1: think for me, it's like it's more of just like
Speaker 1: a personal preference thing than anything else, in the sense
Speaker 1: that I think I just have such like negative, dark
Speaker 1: thoughts and feelings thanks to my depression and anxiety that
Speaker 1: I just really struggle with with movies that have such
Speaker 1: a bleak ending, and I, um, I think it's just
Speaker 1: it's like, I'm glad this movie exists. I think it
Speaker 1: does a net positive for the world, but I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is this is not for me.
Speaker 1: I don't need to see I don't I already know
Speaker 1: this stuff. So it's like I want men to watch this.
Speaker 1: I want like I would argue that this movie is
Speaker 1: you know, is good and I'm glad that I watched it,
Speaker 1: but like it's it's it's kind of frustrating because I
Speaker 1: feel like like we are made to be the target
Speaker 1: audience of a movie like this when it's like, no,
Speaker 1: this is like love it, but like I know know,
Speaker 1: like it's like people who who don't know it should
Speaker 1: should be the you know, the target audience for that movie.
Speaker 1: But also you know, people who are not the target
Speaker 1: audience are notoriously difficult to get to watch the movie,
Speaker 1: but difficult conundrum I totally agree with you, Like I,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that for this movie to have,
Speaker 1: you know, the like to really act out the the
Speaker 1: agenda that it very clearly has, It's like, yeah, the
Speaker 1: Micklovin's of the world have to watch it, you know,
Speaker 1: and like be made uncomfortable by the behaviors they see
Speaker 1: in themselves that are reflected in these characters, and like
Speaker 1: and in the Ryans of the world, like I'm an
Speaker 1: amazing guy. I have grown as a person. But also
Speaker 1: like how do you reckon with your past? And that's
Speaker 1: like something I really appreciate about this movie. And and
Speaker 1: also like I don't dislike the bleak ending. It like
Speaker 1: makes me fucking so sad, but I don't dislike it
Speaker 1: um and I like how many for the most part,
Speaker 1: I do like in terms of like how this is
Speaker 1: kind of targeting a very particular area of rape culture too,
Speaker 1: which is also like, I don't know, I feel like
Speaker 1: anytime there's a movie like this that comes out around
Speaker 1: a large, pernicious issue that is never discussed in movies
Speaker 1: like rape culture, it's like this one movie has to
Speaker 1: speak for all of it, which is impossible. This movie
Speaker 1: is like very much in the like subcategory of like
Speaker 1: campus rape culture, and and I do appreciate the different
Speaker 1: perspectives it explores around that specific area of rape culture
Speaker 1: of you know, like in through Ryan and Madison, you
Speaker 1: have people who are viewed as like generally good people.
Speaker 1: They're not supervillains. They're navigating the world, you know, normally,
Speaker 1: but they were okay with this. They didn't do anything
Speaker 1: when they had a chance. And what is an appropriate
Speaker 1: punishment for that? What does an appropriate penance like? I
Speaker 1: don't have that answer. And then with Connie Britten, you
Speaker 1: have like these escalating crimes of Like with Connie Britten's
Speaker 1: Dean character, you have like someone who was in a
Speaker 1: position to do something about it and didn't because she
Speaker 1: wanted to be quote unquote fair and she had internalized
Speaker 1: misogyny and all this boomer lady baggage that we see
Speaker 1: in her. And then we get up to Alfred, and honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I feel like I'm talking I just with Alfred.
Speaker 1: I feel like he gets off a little easy in
Speaker 1: this movie because he has he is at the top
Speaker 1: of the crime thing. It's like the whatever, I mean,
Speaker 1: you can feel anyway about it. I don't know how
Speaker 1: we feel about it. But it's like Cassie very much
Speaker 1: does approach anyone who negatively affected this situation as equally
Speaker 1: deserving of punishment, regardless of the severity. But Alfred Molina,
Speaker 1: I feel like it's clearly the worst of the bunch,
Speaker 1: Like he was the lawyer who got al off at
Speaker 1: the expense of aggressively pursuing to like take down Nina,
Speaker 1: Like that is such a huge trauma, and yeah, like
Speaker 1: an adult man's bullying like a teenager or a young
Speaker 1: woman who had been assaulted, Like there are levels here
Speaker 1: at play where it's like no one wants to say
Speaker 1: that they were the bystander that did nothing in the
Speaker 1: way that Madison knew and like clearly knew and did nothing.
Speaker 1: But then you have Alfa Molina who profited off of
Speaker 1: aggressively doing something, And I don't, Yeah, I guess it's
Speaker 1: I'm still kind of processing that of Like it's tough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the movie frames that where he's so wrecked with guilt
Speaker 1: to the point where like he can't work anymore. But
Speaker 1: it's like and like begs for forgiveness. He feels bad
Speaker 1: so and then she grants him forgiveness, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't really care if you feel bad. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: also don't believe that that kind of person would feel bad, sure,
Speaker 1: because it was like multiple cases that he supposedly, you know,
Speaker 1: his law firm did right right, like in the past
Speaker 1: two even when he was like, we used to have
Speaker 1: to dig through the trash, No, we just have to
Speaker 1: find a drunk photo and social It's like, so you
Speaker 1: were pre social media doing this like for decades, like Jesus, yeah,
Speaker 1: you should feel bad, you should feel really bad, right yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: It's like a just not believing that somebody in that
Speaker 1: profession would even have a compassion or feel anything. Sorry,
Speaker 1: not not law lawyers at large, but just like in
Speaker 1: his specific case. Um. And then also I guess like, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe her her revenge. I mean thing, it did seem
Speaker 1: like she was very forgiving overall, you know, I think
Speaker 1: she it was the miss directive like whoa, is she
Speaker 1: like doing something really really bad to these people or Okay,
Speaker 1: But then we slowly find out, oh, she just wants
Speaker 1: like regret and like that's all she's asking for. That's
Speaker 1: pretty low stakes, you know, yeah, totally. And it's like,
Speaker 1: but if you don't demonstrate that regret she's going to
Speaker 1: have you assaulted, like the I mean the like I
Speaker 1: saw some critics kind of like being like but her
Speaker 1: practices are bad, which is, you know, not untrue. But
Speaker 1: I don't even really want to touch that here. I
Speaker 1: just in general in terms of the clear I mean,
Speaker 1: they're literally there's five people like kill Bill Style who
Speaker 1: are on her list of people that she particularly thinks
Speaker 1: had a negative impact on on Nina's case. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's I guess, I don't I don't dislike it,
Speaker 1: but they they're I don't know, I don't know that
Speaker 1: Alison briefing was tricky for me on the first watch,
Speaker 1: But I think that that is also kind of personal
Speaker 1: where I don't like, that's the sort of thing where
Speaker 1: I feel like it's it is a kind of survivor
Speaker 1: to survivor situation, where like I had friends and people
Speaker 1: in my life who did not were not inclined to
Speaker 1: believe me or help me in any way when things
Speaker 1: were going on that over time I was able to
Speaker 1: find some empathy for and some forgiveness for. But that's
Speaker 1: also not everybody's situation. And then also it's like you
Speaker 1: have to keep in mind that this is not Nina
Speaker 1: enacting revenge. This is Cassie enacting revenge on behalf of Nina,
Speaker 1: which which is why I kind of I liked that
Speaker 1: at first in the like the Molly Shannon character, which
Speaker 1: is like, there's another comedian in this movie who plays
Speaker 1: Nina's mom who you know, kind of tells like Cassie,
Speaker 1: like you need to move on, like this isn't helping me,
Speaker 1: It isn't helping Nina. You're you're just kind of acting
Speaker 1: in this really self destructive way and like please move on,
Speaker 1: which is like, well, that's the point where you need to,
Speaker 1: like her mother told you to kind of you know,
Speaker 1: and I don't know. I mean, that's that's like the tragedy, right,
Speaker 1: is you don't know what Nina would want in this situation.
Speaker 1: She's not there to tell you, and so Cassie's kind
Speaker 1: of guessing what she might want. But a lot of
Speaker 1: that is enmeshed in her own guilt, in her own problems,
Speaker 1: and and so any of the revenge enacted is kind
Speaker 1: of like there's all these levels to it because it's
Speaker 1: not like this happened to me and I want revenge
Speaker 1: for it. It's like this happened to my friend. This
Speaker 1: is what I am guessing she would want, and also
Speaker 1: I would want for it. It's just like it's so
Speaker 1: messy and complicated when you get the sense that like
Speaker 1: she was just going to kind of target random men
Speaker 1: for like maybe for who knows how long, but her
Speaker 1: until until Jennifer Coolidge kicked her out of the house,
Speaker 1: until she filled up her notebook with tally marks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: She's like, well, my notebook is full, so I've my
Speaker 1: job here is done. Um. And it's not until she
Speaker 1: learns that al Monroe has moved back to the area
Speaker 1: that she starts this more targeted revenge plot to the
Speaker 1: people who she feels need to be, you know, brought
Speaker 1: to justice. And yeah, I struggled with some of that
Speaker 1: in terms of, like because the movie kind of tricks
Speaker 1: you into thinking, oh, is she like killing these men
Speaker 1: that she meets at the nightclub? Is she did she
Speaker 1: actually arrange for Madison to be assaulted so that she'll
Speaker 1: learn her lesson? Did she actually abduct Dean Walker's teenage
Speaker 1: girl to teach the d a lesson? You know? It's
Speaker 1: all really and so it's but like I just I
Speaker 1: don't know, I mean, maybe that's just like the effectiveness
Speaker 1: of that storytelling. But I was just I just found
Speaker 1: all of that kind of unsettling. What I really take
Speaker 1: issue with is there are a couple scenes where Cassie
Speaker 1: is being assaulted, and I feel like we we saw
Speaker 1: more than we needed to see that we were like
Speaker 1: kind of lingering on that. I don't know, it was
Speaker 1: just like do we do this need to be on screen?
Speaker 1: Kind of disagree with that. I I feel like that
Speaker 1: depends on who the target audience of this movie ultimately is.
Speaker 1: I think if it is, like you know, like for
Speaker 1: people who have experienced that or who have felt like
Speaker 1: that is a looming threat over them all the time, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: showing an assault is not really responsible filmmaking choice. But
Speaker 1: I think that if you're if your target audience is
Speaker 1: like men generally who have displayed these behaviors, who need
Speaker 1: who need to see it? Like, I don't know, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's definitely a bunch of different perspectives there. I think
Speaker 1: that in terms of like a man who might see
Speaker 1: himself in kind of this goofy way of like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I I kind of act like mclovin and blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: and then seeing that escalation I think could actually have
Speaker 1: like an effect on like, oh shit, like have I
Speaker 1: done something like that? Is that an instinct I would have?
Speaker 1: I think that there is like it felt like it
Speaker 1: didn't feel like throw away at least it felt intentional.
Speaker 1: But I also, you know, it is like triggering as well.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's definitely there's like a lot of sides,
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to like killing Cassie. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like that's a long drawn out moment. I thought
Speaker 1: for sure, like I couldn't believe it. I mean, of
Speaker 1: course anytime a main character is killed. I think I
Speaker 1: was just like really waiting for like that next twist
Speaker 1: of like she she's making it. Yeah, yeah, she's gonna
Speaker 1: do the thing. And it was like maybe just I
Speaker 1: think I remember going over my head like it maybe
Speaker 1: there's somehow and then you know it just I guess
Speaker 1: gave time to be like, oh, there's just no way
Speaker 1: I guess this happened, like I don't know, but yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I did feel like that, like I mean, it's again,
Speaker 1: it's like it's not a Rewodgable seed. It's like no
Speaker 1: one wants to see that scene happen over and over
Speaker 1: and over, but it did feel intentional that like, especially
Speaker 1: with a female director who I believe is a survivor
Speaker 1: as well, and you know it it's like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's like it's not going to be for everyone, but
Speaker 1: especially it's like I don't know if she wants me
Speaker 1: to sit with it for this viewing. Okay, it's going
Speaker 1: to feel like ship, but it's supposed to feel like ship,
Speaker 1: and it sounds like that reaction that we all had
Speaker 1: to be like, no, she can't be dead like this,
Speaker 1: like super motivated revenge character that never dies can't be dead,
Speaker 1: and like, but she is, and that is so affecting.
Speaker 1: And you see her like go down fighting and just
Speaker 1: all this stuff and I don't know, it's I didn't
Speaker 1: I didn't enjoy it, but I did. I did feel
Speaker 1: it was effective. I don't know. Let's take another quick
Speaker 1: break and just just for us this time, just this
Speaker 1: is for us, and will come back to discuss more
Speaker 1: and we're back. Where do we go from here? I
Speaker 1: think something worth discussing is, yes, this is a movie
Speaker 1: centering on like women's empowerment and condemning this larger victim
Speaker 1: blaming rape culture we live in. But it still centers
Speaker 1: a sis, middle class, able bodied white woman, And not
Speaker 1: that those stories are not worth telling, but that demographic
Speaker 1: has been who most of the stories of this nature
Speaker 1: have been focused on, not only in like movies and TV,
Speaker 1: but you know, real life news. So this just kind
Speaker 1: of adds that's just another tally mark to the that
Speaker 1: of story about that demographic. And again, not that this
Speaker 1: movie shouldn't exist because it's about a blonde, white woman,
Speaker 1: but there it just speaks to the need for other
Speaker 1: people to have their stories told. It is still a
Speaker 1: largely white cast. We have Gail, who is played by
Speaker 1: Laverne Cox, who is of course a black trans woman,
Speaker 1: but she has no I mean, she has no story
Speaker 1: outside of her relation to Cassie, which is this movie
Speaker 1: came out in one How are we still having like
Speaker 1: one of the only non white characters be a best
Speaker 1: friend we know nothing about outside of relation to protagonist
Speaker 1: kind of you know deal, Yeah, I was. I was
Speaker 1: disappointed in that, especially because Laverne Cox like really makes
Speaker 1: a meal of what she's given, Like she's so funny,
Speaker 1: and they're like, why could her character being more actively
Speaker 1: involved in this story? Why couldn't we know more about her.
Speaker 1: Could we have maybe like cut a random character who
Speaker 1: appears for one scene and Kevin Laverne Cox in arc Like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was that that was like one of the more
Speaker 1: disappointing parts of the movie for for me. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think she's only I didn't like time it out exactly,
Speaker 1: but I would guess that she's only in the movie
Speaker 1: for a total of like a couple of scenes five minutes,
Speaker 1: five to seven minutes in an almost two hour movie.
Speaker 1: That was disappointing. And I mean I think that it's
Speaker 1: like in these kinds of stories, that's like you always
Speaker 1: see a story around like a social issue centered around
Speaker 1: a white character first, and that is like it may
Speaker 1: be a very good movie, it may be an effectively
Speaker 1: told movie, but it's that like I feel like we
Speaker 1: come up against movies like that quite a bit on
Speaker 1: this show, where it's like, oh, like this movie was
Speaker 1: a step forward of like this is not a commonly
Speaker 1: discussed film topic, but when it finally is able to
Speaker 1: get made and able to get seen, it's done in
Speaker 1: a way that feels very like Hollywood safe of like, well,
Speaker 1: but it's about Carrie Mulligan, so like you know, and
Speaker 1: it is still centered around like as siss White character. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I totally see what you're saying. Yeah, I wish I
Speaker 1: thought more of the like well missed opportunities but also
Speaker 1: kind of unbelievable thing would be that like if Cassie's
Speaker 1: character and Gil is supposed to be like her best
Speaker 1: new best friend in her new life, which isn't attached
Speaker 1: to her med school life, which I guess she's trying
Speaker 1: to get rid of, so like wouldn't she lup heer
Speaker 1: into into like at least something more. But their relationship
Speaker 1: is really like nothing, Like it's like what is scale
Speaker 1: think Cassie does. Yeah, Gail doesn't know much about her, yeah,
Speaker 1: like other than work there. But yeah, I mean it
Speaker 1: was very I guess kind of stock BFF coming into
Speaker 1: like if you know, which also is like a story Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you're saying, that's a missed storytelling opportunity of like
Speaker 1: this is her only I mean word to believe, her
Speaker 1: only friend, but her only friend doesn't know anything about
Speaker 1: her and they just like kind of communicated and he's like,
Speaker 1: what are the dating right now? Like cute boy, and
Speaker 1: it's like, come on you you have Laverne Cox, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: almost all of her lines have to do with Ryan,
Speaker 1: like she's another I mean, yeah, we've we've talked about
Speaker 1: this a number of times recently, where like there's a
Speaker 1: character who is just like a queer character specifically who
Speaker 1: is present to like just wonder what's going on in
Speaker 1: the romantic lives of straight people. So yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: it's so it's like a trope that is so easily
Speaker 1: identifiable that I am truly, like so frustrated and shocked
Speaker 1: when it still ends up in a mainstream, popular movie.
Speaker 1: It's like, how how many times does it need to
Speaker 1: be said? That was? Yeah, that was super super frustrating. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's let's see. There's there's other stuff here. Oh. I did,
Speaker 1: like just in terms of I mean in general, I
Speaker 1: guess this is like a genre saying where I feel
Speaker 1: like in the revenge genre, and correct me if I'm
Speaker 1: like completely off here, because this is not like my genre, right,
Speaker 1: but like I feel like the person seeking revenge sometimes
Speaker 1: you kind of don't know that much about them, and
Speaker 1: I always find that so frustrating, and I also found
Speaker 1: that frustrating in this movie. But I think that's just
Speaker 1: the genre where it's like mad Max my daughter and
Speaker 1: then you don't know anything else about him, like kill
Speaker 1: Bill my daughter, and then you don't find out anything
Speaker 1: else about her. Taken my daughter, my daughter, Like it's
Speaker 1: very often or is it like John Wick is like
Speaker 1: my dog or something, or is that my wife? Um,
Speaker 1: it's it's my dog. But he's also said about his wife. Okay,
Speaker 1: so it's like this is this is this doctor And
Speaker 1: for Cassie it's like my best friend and you don't
Speaker 1: know much about her outside of it. I just I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe this is just like me chafing with this genre,
Speaker 1: but I'm like, but I would have liked to know
Speaker 1: a little more about her and like what her because
Speaker 1: I do like that they, you know, build out a
Speaker 1: life for her, and you get the feeling of like, oh,
Speaker 1: here her parents, they have no fucking clue what to
Speaker 1: do even though they love her, which plays out and
Speaker 1: I thought, like Cassie and Jennifer Coolidge there was so
Speaker 1: great and she is like the perfect mom who does
Speaker 1: not know what to do for generations and she she's
Speaker 1: great and and I like that this world is built
Speaker 1: out for her, and you also kind of understand for
Speaker 1: the most part of like the only I mean, it's
Speaker 1: like the only reason that Cassie is able to live
Speaker 1: this revenge life is because of like her own privilege.
Speaker 1: Like if she actually had to like work to live
Speaker 1: and didn't have the ability to stay with her parents
Speaker 1: and plan revenges, then her life might look really different.
Speaker 1: And that didn't even like hit with me remotely in
Speaker 1: the first one. I was like, Oh yeah, if she
Speaker 1: didn't have like this niceass house to hang out with
Speaker 1: with her parents and like plenty of space to conceal
Speaker 1: her secrets, her life would just look really different. That's
Speaker 1: not here nor there. I was just like, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: you just you can't just live that revenge life. You know,
Speaker 1: someone has to be bankrolling that revenge life because you
Speaker 1: can't really live that revenge life on a barista income.
Speaker 1: Speaking for personal experience right by the way her like
Speaker 1: we said her mom who is Jennifer Coolidge, and her
Speaker 1: dad who is Clancy Brown, who is most famous for
Speaker 1: being one of the Sachman in Flubber, his best known role.
Speaker 1: I didn't take that connection. And I love I really
Speaker 1: did like the parents in this movie. I feel like
Speaker 1: they really give they really that scene where her dad
Speaker 1: is like, we really miss Nina, but we really miss
Speaker 1: you and you're like, that's so I did appreciate, Like
Speaker 1: there are little things that happened in this movie that
Speaker 1: like speak to survivors experience or survivor's guilt that were
Speaker 1: like really specific in a way that was like yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean certain things. And and of course it's like
Speaker 1: it is written in a kind of campy way at
Speaker 1: times where like Carrie Mulligan, she gets quippy in some scenes.
Speaker 1: You know she's not firing off things you would know
Speaker 1: off the top of your head, but like who gives
Speaker 1: a ship? I love that um. But like the knee
Speaker 1: jerk defenses that you hear from from the Dean, the
Speaker 1: knee jerk defenses you hear from Ryan's, especially when Ryan
Speaker 1: is backed into a corner. The way he suddenly behaves
Speaker 1: is like, oh, there you are. You know, there's who
Speaker 1: you actually are. And then with her parents like you
Speaker 1: you like, I feel like something this movie does do
Speaker 1: effectively is shows that when an assault that barely affects
Speaker 1: the life of someone like al the ripple effects are huge.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's completely altered the course of Cassie's life,
Speaker 1: but it's also like, you know, affecting her family and
Speaker 1: affecting you know, it just it ripples out so far
Speaker 1: and there's never space made for that for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think one of those things this movie does effectively
Speaker 1: that I haven't seen a lot in other kind of
Speaker 1: similar movies or movies that tackle similar subject matter, is
Speaker 1: it shows that the perpetrator of the assault is not
Speaker 1: the only villain in this scenario. There are enablers, There
Speaker 1: are cheerleaders, There are by standards who did nothing to intervene.
Speaker 1: There are authority figures who gave the abuser the benefit
Speaker 1: of the doubt. There are you know, peers who didn't
Speaker 1: believe the victim because she had a certain reputation. You know,
Speaker 1: there's there's all these people that, I think it that
Speaker 1: tend to get overlooked in other stories of this nature
Speaker 1: that I did really appreciate about this movie. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: one interview with the director was she actually described, I
Speaker 1: think the characters as like good people who are doing
Speaker 1: bad things, which I was really fascinated with, even like
Speaker 1: she would say Ryan or you know some of the
Speaker 1: other like characters that were like, oh, that's a bad person.
Speaker 1: Like I think that's what she was trying to convey here,
Speaker 1: which you know, as we said with the casting and stuff,
Speaker 1: did a really good job because we trusted these people
Speaker 1: and like some of these people seem like they could
Speaker 1: be your buddy, you know, um, and so yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that was well yeah, actually your buddy, our best friend.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I mean a true knock on his door,
Speaker 1: you know, we know the drill. But yeah, it is
Speaker 1: really like I think that's what was so unique because
Speaker 1: it's like, of course we know rapists equal bad, like
Speaker 1: we got that hopefully if we don't. If you don't
Speaker 1: know that, then like lost, cause who cares, don't watch movies. Um,
Speaker 1: But like you know, I think this was like more
Speaker 1: of the like, yeah, the enablers of people around that
Speaker 1: and then being like examined your own actions are people
Speaker 1: close to you, because that's going to be much more
Speaker 1: possible that you might be that person instead of the
Speaker 1: al monrope but like you might be Madison McPhee or whoever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the Madison McFee character in particular, Like some some of
Speaker 1: my viewers are having an issue with her, but I
Speaker 1: I mean I think that that is I mean that
Speaker 1: is the case for women watching this movie of like
Speaker 1: there is that internalized misogyny and also the way that
Speaker 1: Cassie speaks with her, because they're talking about an assault
Speaker 1: that took place seven or eight years ago, but it's
Speaker 1: been a seven or eight years where the conversation around
Speaker 1: campus assault has completely changed, like from two thousand and thirteen.
Speaker 1: It's completely different now. And there was no culture of
Speaker 1: believe women then, and there was a lot of like
Speaker 1: and and and and having her present that was like,
Speaker 1: I mean, it was like painful and frustrating because it's
Speaker 1: like behaviors that you recognize in in I don't know,
Speaker 1: like being in school at that time. You're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was absolutely like a constant conversation going on. But
Speaker 1: but but then, like we're talking about earlier, for Cassie
Speaker 1: to set the bar so low as to just be like,
Speaker 1: can you demonstrate ro more for how you behaved then,
Speaker 1: and she can't do it. She can't, And it's that
Speaker 1: is like the worst feeling in the world. If like,
Speaker 1: like you're saying, Sierra that, like Emerald was saying in
Speaker 1: an interview that like they're not bad people, but the
Speaker 1: fact that it's like if Madison is not a bad
Speaker 1: person and she is spent eight years sort of in
Speaker 1: the back of her head being like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: these things happen, and like, I mean, that's just like
Speaker 1: a very real thing that exists in the world, and
Speaker 1: it's I don't know, there's there's so much Most of
Speaker 1: the criticism around this movie I sort of received as like,
Speaker 1: you know, how is one filmmaker going to give you
Speaker 1: a definitive answer for this problem? I don't know, Like
Speaker 1: it is such an ambiguous and changing conversation and everyone
Speaker 1: feels different about it for sure. Um to your point
Speaker 1: a little earlier, Jamie, in terms of us not knowing
Speaker 1: a whole lot about Cassie, I think we do get
Speaker 1: to know her a little bit better than kind of
Speaker 1: similar characters in similar movies. But what I'm in telling
Speaker 1: let me know if this is not a fair assessment,
Speaker 1: But because there is a tendency in narratives like this
Speaker 1: for like the survivors to be predominantly defined by their trauma,
Speaker 1: I feel like we were getting traces of that, maybe
Speaker 1: not to the extent that we've seen in other stories,
Speaker 1: but with Cassie, like her whole narrative, I mean, her
Speaker 1: whole goal is like this all consuming this trauma, guilt
Speaker 1: feelings surrounding this assault that had happened to her friend.
Speaker 1: And I mean that's also kind of the nature of storytelling.
Speaker 1: It needs to be focused and specific, and like you know,
Speaker 1: we've been talking about she she has given more of
Speaker 1: an interior life than you know, again other similar characters
Speaker 1: we've seen. And a part of the movie that I like,
Speaker 1: part of the trajectory of the story that I appreciated
Speaker 1: and enjoyed, was when she goes to talk to Nina's mom,
Speaker 1: Molly Shannon, and she's like, Cassie, this is not doing
Speaker 1: anybody any good. You're acting like a child, and you
Speaker 1: need to let it go and move on. And it
Speaker 1: seems like Cassie takes this to heart and that because
Speaker 1: that's when she starts to get closer and open up
Speaker 1: a bit more with Ryan, and she like, let's what
Speaker 1: appears to be a healthy relationship into her life. And
Speaker 1: it's only until she sees he was a bystander of
Speaker 1: this assault that she decides to carry out the rest
Speaker 1: of her plot, her revenge plot. That Yeah, I see
Speaker 1: what you're saying. And I feel this way about a
Speaker 1: lot of movies. I it's I don't really feel that
Speaker 1: I don't know, for the way it struck me was like,
Speaker 1: and maybe it was not done in the best way
Speaker 1: possible that you know, whatever, No movie is perfect, but
Speaker 1: I felt like what Cassie is experiencing is like, it
Speaker 1: felt like to me, like the how how an event
Speaker 1: like this takes over, you know, has the potential that
Speaker 1: just take over your life and yourself, And not in
Speaker 1: terms of like a bad writing perspective, but in terms of, like,
Speaker 1: I think that there there are ways that these storylines
Speaker 1: are written where it's like, oh, yeah, the trauma is
Speaker 1: the defining woman like moment of this woman's life because
Speaker 1: plot plot, plot plot plot it whereas like her friend's
Speaker 1: death was the defining moment of her life. She can't
Speaker 1: move on, but we do get indications that she might
Speaker 1: want to through like this potential relationship and through her
Speaker 1: you know, talking to Molly Shannon and being like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm clearly like but she can't let it go. And
Speaker 1: I don't know, I've that relatable of like, you know,
Speaker 1: you're trying to get out of this toxic cycle of behavior,
Speaker 1: but you just like and you and also I like
Speaker 1: I agree with you. There is like that moment of
Speaker 1: Molly shan and she like she knows she's sucking her
Speaker 1: life up. I don't think she's just like she doesn't
Speaker 1: think that, but it's like she cannot get there, she
Speaker 1: can't let it go. And I don't know, like it's
Speaker 1: it's it's an extreme example, but I there's a part
Speaker 1: of me that's like, yeah, I get it, you know.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's bad. I don't think it's bad writing.
Speaker 1: But like I I and I see what you're saying.
Speaker 1: I just I don't know, Yeah, it's it's there's moments
Speaker 1: where I'm like Cassie's like more of a symbol than
Speaker 1: a character to me at different points where like she
Speaker 1: is this like symbol of like trying to break past
Speaker 1: this traumatic event and trying to hold people accountable and
Speaker 1: it's too much for one person. It's impossible, it's already
Speaker 1: killed one person, and it's I don't know, like I
Speaker 1: this is, I don't know what this is for the movie,
Speaker 1: but I like don't even really think of her as
Speaker 1: a character as much as like this central symbol for
Speaker 1: the harmful effect that this is and like the precedent
Speaker 1: and like what had me just like funked up for
Speaker 1: days after seeing this movie the first time was like
Speaker 1: for Nina, right of of like the only way she
Speaker 1: got justice is to have a friend willing to give
Speaker 1: up years of her life and die, and it still
Speaker 1: wasn't enough. You know. It's just like so sad and
Speaker 1: so frustrating and and not completely untrue. And yeah, so
Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel like I I think of
Speaker 1: Cassie almost as like this like symbol of like the
Speaker 1: impossibility of these of these situations for people, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I see that, Yeah, definitely, Yeah. I think I think
Speaker 1: also she had been described, you know again referring back
Speaker 1: to probably and interview something that I some meta dad
Speaker 1: on the show or whatever like that she kind of
Speaker 1: had already like her life had already been over by
Speaker 1: that event. And I think that I wonder like if
Speaker 1: it's kind of like the way that people, you know,
Speaker 1: when I mean the whole movie, right, it's called Promising
Speaker 1: young Woman, because I guess it's a play on you know, well,
Speaker 1: he's a promising young man. Why ruined his life? And
Speaker 1: it's like always, oh, well, life has already been ruined?
Speaker 1: Why didn't we care about that? So I feel like maybe,
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of mapped that concept onto her.
Speaker 1: It's like her life has been ruined, and it's not
Speaker 1: that she's ruining it. It's that he ruined her life
Speaker 1: and Nina's life obviously, and so then this is the
Speaker 1: result of that. Um so, you know, and it's it's
Speaker 1: obviously just awful thinking about it if you're thinking, like
Speaker 1: what would she have been, right, Like, think of the
Speaker 1: possibilities if she had if this hadn't if he hadn't
Speaker 1: done that, and then she had become a doctor and
Speaker 1: saved a bunch of other people's lives, you know. So
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of reminded me of like whenever
Speaker 1: we talk about like I mean not to bring it
Speaker 1: back to literally something too close to home, but like
Speaker 1: when people complain about, oh, my favorite dude actor or
Speaker 1: a comedian or whatever, and now I'm not going to
Speaker 1: get to see his movies anymore because we're canceling him,
Speaker 1: And it's like, well, what about the literal like several
Speaker 1: creative women typically whose lives he ruined, like we didn't
Speaker 1: get to see their work or whatever, Right, so that's
Speaker 1: already been sacrificed, apparently, and now we only worry about
Speaker 1: his future work. But I guess that's sort of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: she was a she was a symbol in it. It
Speaker 1: was almost like she wasn't she didn't get to live
Speaker 1: the character's life because that was already over. Mm hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It reminded me this is like the like worst observation
Speaker 1: of my life, especially after Sarah. That was like so
Speaker 1: well put. And but I I the way I saw
Speaker 1: this movie ending originally, just as I was watching it
Speaker 1: unfold and before the second act, fucker he started going
Speaker 1: and You're like, oh no, I'm hurting this my oh no,
Speaker 1: my body. Um was I thought it was kind of
Speaker 1: good to go the way of Teeth, which is one
Speaker 1: of my favorite vigilante justice movies ever. And at the
Speaker 1: end of Teeth spoiler alert, everyone should go watch Teeth
Speaker 1: that you know, like she you know, the the the
Speaker 1: girl with teeth in her vagina. Um, she does not win,
Speaker 1: per se, right, but she does survive and she goes
Speaker 1: on to say, I'm going to enact that. I'm going
Speaker 1: to continue this vigilante of vagina crime that I've had going.
Speaker 1: And like it's not it's a very imperfect outcome. It's
Speaker 1: not like she got what she wanted, but she still is,
Speaker 1: you know, she has this mission and that's kind of
Speaker 1: what I saw happening for Cassie and throwing a wrench
Speaker 1: into that in like very sudden realism was like fuck,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it. I don't even know, like at
Speaker 1: what point I'll be like I've fully processed that filmmaking choice,
Speaker 1: Like it's it's a lot, but but I'm yeah, that
Speaker 1: that level of realism. And then they really I mean,
Speaker 1: Emerald Finnell makes you fucking sit with it. They light
Speaker 1: her on fire and you see this character that you've
Speaker 1: built this emotional connection to to like, oh, she was
Speaker 1: so close to getting some of you know, maybe making
Speaker 1: some progress in her life, and like maybe this is
Speaker 1: the last big thing she needs to do and then
Speaker 1: she can move forward. But but like you were just saying, sire,
Speaker 1: it's it's there should be space made for for people
Speaker 1: who who do not get to have that triumphant other
Speaker 1: side of the story, because there's many people that, through
Speaker 1: all these different factors, don't get to have that. And
Speaker 1: then I became a doctor and justice was served, Like
Speaker 1: that is just not the norm, Like even in I
Speaker 1: find it, like, I mean, I know they have to
Speaker 1: wrap up the movie, but a'l getting arrested. I'm like
Speaker 1: so fucking what, what is actually going to happen to
Speaker 1: this person? Like, if this is commentary on the brock
Speaker 1: Turner case, nothing is going to happen to him. If
Speaker 1: it's commentary on the Bret Kavanaugh case, nothing is going
Speaker 1: to happen to him. But that's another movie, right, Like
Speaker 1: that's another series, that's another thing, But it's I don't
Speaker 1: even know what my point was teeth two things. I
Speaker 1: just spent the last thirty seconds trying to figure out
Speaker 1: if vigilante anagrams to vagina something at all, because you
Speaker 1: did say, like vagina vigilante instead of listening to my
Speaker 1: incredible Point's interesting, Jamie, I can multitask? I can? I can?
Speaker 1: I can anagram plus anything? I does it come out
Speaker 1: to anything? It's it's not quite there's a there's an
Speaker 1: extra A that we need, but it's let me. I'll
Speaker 1: keep working on it. Um. The other thing is I
Speaker 1: read on our favorite scholarly journal Wikipedia that Emerald Finelle
Speaker 1: originally planned to have the ending of the movie be
Speaker 1: that Cassie's body, her body is disposed of and she's burned,
Speaker 1: and that's how the movie ends without any justice being
Speaker 1: served in terms of al Monroe getting arrested, but that
Speaker 1: the investors in the film did not want that bleak
Speaker 1: of an ending um, so she rewrote it to include
Speaker 1: um the ending that we get. The other ending she
Speaker 1: had considered was where apparently Cassie does not die, she
Speaker 1: appears at the wedding and then kills It's just as
Speaker 1: responsible men so Al Monroe, whoever Ryan Max Greenfield's character.
Speaker 1: I mean that that would have been the teeth ending, right, Like,
Speaker 1: that's that's ante ending that you're expecting. I mean, I
Speaker 1: do kind of like that she subverted that, and I
Speaker 1: also appreciate that it wasn't the worst thing she could
Speaker 1: think of. And the reason that she didn't go with
Speaker 1: that ending of like her just like vigilante killing everyone,
Speaker 1: was that Emerald Fanelle deemed it unrealistic, which goes back
Speaker 1: to what we've been talking about, is that it isn't
Speaker 1: super realistic and the ending that does play out is
Speaker 1: more aligned with what tends to happen in real life.
Speaker 1: A fun fact that I found that it's like so dorky,
Speaker 1: but I was like, interesting, Cassie, is that is a
Speaker 1: reference to like a Greek myth um. It's a reference
Speaker 1: to Cassandra, who is the truth teller prophet has who
Speaker 1: was never believed, And so it turns out that was
Speaker 1: a very deliberate name choice, and I was like, damn,
Speaker 1: she's good. Emerald Faneal went to a library. I really
Speaker 1: did her wikipedias in that knowledge. Is there anything else
Speaker 1: anyone else wanted to touch on? Um? I'm pretty emotionally exhausted,
Speaker 1: So I'm that's a yeah. Yeah, we covered all covered
Speaker 1: all of it, solved all of it. I think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think we really fixed rape culture today. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: did it. Your move promising to just kidding? Clease the
Speaker 1: ten part Amazon series, right, yeah, Like, let's make this
Speaker 1: uh more painful for everybody. I'm very glad this movie exists,
Speaker 1: but I don't want to see it again. Um, but
Speaker 1: does it pass the Bechdel test? It does? There are
Speaker 1: for It's just like, is it even relevant for this movie?
Speaker 1: But it does. Cassie talks to Gail, her mom, Nina's mom.
Speaker 1: As far as our nipple scale, where we rate the
Speaker 1: movie zero to five nipples based on an examination of
Speaker 1: intersectional feminism, Okay, I guess I'll give this four nipples
Speaker 1: because I agree it's I'm glad this movie exists. I
Speaker 1: do think it is a net positive. I think it's
Speaker 1: and I'm glad more movies are tackling this issue of
Speaker 1: just this kind of societal ill of rape culture, victim blaming. UM.
Speaker 1: This movie has a very clear agenda, and I think
Speaker 1: that for the most part, it handled it all pretty effectively,
Speaker 1: especially because it's it's handled a way that it is
Speaker 1: like palatable for a wide audience, which it shouldn't have
Speaker 1: to be. Movies like about this shouldn't have to be palatable,
Speaker 1: but it does help. And there are some movies that
Speaker 1: where there was a movie I saw cited, I'll post
Speaker 1: it in the in the notes of the episode, but
Speaker 1: there there are a few movies that have in the
Speaker 1: past five years I explored campus rape culture, but this
Speaker 1: is the one that took hold. And I think that
Speaker 1: it does have to do with what you're saying, Gitlin,
Speaker 1: with like it being the most palatable star studded attempt
Speaker 1: to touch on this subject because I know that some
Speaker 1: of the synopsies I was reading for movies that have
Speaker 1: come out in the past year about um campus rape culture,
Speaker 1: we're fucking brutal. Yeah, not bad, but just brutal. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's helpful, especially that plus it's gotten a
Speaker 1: lot of attention, a lot of award nominations, which means
Speaker 1: more people will see it. And I'm I'm glad that
Speaker 1: is the case, and I'm glad I saw it. But
Speaker 1: as I've said, I don't want to watch this movie again.
Speaker 1: I've seen it three times now to you know, for yeah,
Speaker 1: and that I filled my quota for at least ten
Speaker 1: to twenty years. So but even so four nipples, Um, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna honestly, I'm going to skip rating this. I'm
Speaker 1: not going to read it because I still don't I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm still processing it. But I will I
Speaker 1: will say that I am very glad this movie exists.
Speaker 1: I think it is like a big step forward in
Speaker 1: having this discussion in the mainstream. I don't agree with
Speaker 1: every choice made. We didn't even have time or the
Speaker 1: emotional energy to get into like the hyper hyper hyper specifics.
Speaker 1: But I also think that there's a lot of pressure
Speaker 1: on movies like these to be perfect and to have
Speaker 1: a message that is palatable to everybody, to have a
Speaker 1: message that is like meaningful to men who may display
Speaker 1: these behaviors and also to people who have been on
Speaker 1: the receiving end of them, Like it is such a
Speaker 1: huge burdens not the right. It's such a huge topic
Speaker 1: to take on as a filmmaker and such a huge
Speaker 1: topic to even get something like this made. And I
Speaker 1: think that this does kind of fall and and this
Speaker 1: is not a slam on Emerald Vanilla in any way.
Speaker 1: She's clearly very talented, but there is, like you know,
Speaker 1: she we see many or most directors that kind of
Speaker 1: pop out who are women recently are already established white actresses. Um.
Speaker 1: And that is that's not fortunately is not exclusively the case,
Speaker 1: but it is a clear kind of trend of like
Speaker 1: you have to have already been a successful blonde woman
Speaker 1: for a decade and then you can be creative, let
Speaker 1: you direct a movie. It's not the fault of the women,
Speaker 1: but it bums me the funk out. Um. That's neither
Speaker 1: here nor there. I'm very glad this movie exists. I
Speaker 1: think it like challenges a lot of things that are
Speaker 1: are not challenged at all. And I hope that we
Speaker 1: can see different takes on this topic. I hope that
Speaker 1: this is not the rape culture movie. It shouldn't be.
Speaker 1: There's so many different perspectives and communities and you know,
Speaker 1: all of that ship It's just sub I mean, this
Speaker 1: is like a campus rape movie with a particular view.
Speaker 1: This shouldn't even be the only campus rape movie, you know,
Speaker 1: and that makes me sad to say out loud too.
Speaker 1: But I hope, I hope that this movie's success makes
Speaker 1: room for, like Blaze of the Trail, for other filmmakers
Speaker 1: to explore similar themes and and be able to do
Speaker 1: it their way in the way. It seems like Emerald
Speaker 1: Faneal really did it her way here, which is amazing.
Speaker 1: So I am not granting nipples at all today and
Speaker 1: I and the movie is good. Yes, uh Sira final
Speaker 1: thoughts your you can award nipples or also pass you know,
Speaker 1: pass on that up to you, because yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think also good for nipples is a good range
Speaker 1: for me as well for this movie at large. And
Speaker 1: I think, um, I've also was thinking about it in
Speaker 1: the sense of like sort of how rom coms, Like
Speaker 1: I had a lot of rom com tropes in it.
Speaker 1: You know, we're talking about like the kind of stock
Speaker 1: best friend and then you know, and then it flips
Speaker 1: it on its head of course, with like Ryan esthetically yes, yes,
Speaker 1: totally music soundtrack. Yeah, the way they just did all
Speaker 1: the like glances and they look up at each other
Speaker 1: and all these things. So yeah, I think it was
Speaker 1: I that was another thing that I think resonated with
Speaker 1: me as somebody who feels betrayed by all rom coms.
Speaker 1: Why were they so problematic? But I still like them,
Speaker 1: but they're always I can't watch them again because they
Speaker 1: have problems. Um. So I think that kind of was
Speaker 1: another thing that that I thought was interesting thing about it.
Speaker 1: Liked about it. Um Yeah, but yeah, I agree, there's like,
Speaker 1: definitely it feels like sometimes with these topics, these hea
Speaker 1: your movies, like it's like they almost can only tackle
Speaker 1: one thing at once, Like we're babies and we have
Speaker 1: to only do one thing, so they have to Yeah,
Speaker 1: we can only do this, and it has to be
Speaker 1: this kind of person with this kind of you know thing,
Speaker 1: and you know, Okay, so hopefully we'll move past that soon.
Speaker 1: But but yeah, similar feelings for sure. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: mean we've had a really interesting discussion. I'm glad that
Speaker 1: there are movies like this more and more that generate
Speaker 1: these deep, thoughtful, amazing discussion. Wow, look at us, we're
Speaker 1: so amazing, we're so smart. But no, like, I appreciate
Speaker 1: that this movie challenged me in the ways that it did,
Speaker 1: so kudos to the movie for that. Sierra, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining us in this discussion. Thank you
Speaker 1: for having me. Oh so you know we dove right in,
Speaker 1: you know. So I'm glad. I feel very honored to
Speaker 1: be here. Yeah, I feel like, let's like, um for
Speaker 1: a fun decompress. How how have you been house? How things?
Speaker 1: You know? Yeah, everything's light and fun. Um, so you
Speaker 1: got that side of me. Um, But yes, for sure,
Speaker 1: you know, I'll come back for a for a light
Speaker 1: one some day. But it was good to kind of
Speaker 1: have this conversation because this movie has kind of been
Speaker 1: you know, it's a quarantine time. I only got to
Speaker 1: see it in my lonesome and like stew on it
Speaker 1: in my own head and maybe read a few articles.
Speaker 1: But it's good to talk it over with real humans
Speaker 1: who are also very thoughtful about it. And um, even
Speaker 1: though it is very heavy and probably will you know,
Speaker 1: require some I have a little of a little white
Speaker 1: tea after this, you know, too little self care. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm going to take a bath. Yeah, please take take
Speaker 1: the take then night yeah, yeah, you guys, let's kick
Speaker 1: up your feet. Yeah, there you go. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: And where where can we where can we find you online?
Speaker 1: Where can our followers come and come and find you?
Speaker 1: It's actually really scary. Yeah what where can they duct me?
Speaker 1: Please do not go and find her, but to follow
Speaker 1: on the on the yeah, in the digital sense. Um, yeah, thanks.
Speaker 1: I am on Instagram at Sierra Coto s I E
Speaker 1: R R A K A t O W Twitter, same thing,
Speaker 1: that's just my name. And I have a podcast called
Speaker 1: stay pod Sitive that I have kind of lapsed out
Speaker 1: a little bit, but you know it exists. There are episodes.
Speaker 1: Would love to have you both on someday if you
Speaker 1: would be so open to it. It's you know, it's
Speaker 1: very um, it's more light, I would say, then promise
Speaker 1: young woman. But but you know, you know, we talk
Speaker 1: about just how people keep their heads up in tougher time.
Speaker 1: Stuff like that. Um. And I am on I'm on
Speaker 1: TikTok same name as well. I mean I don't do
Speaker 1: that much, but I love to watch them. That's a videos. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all that those are the main things. Excellent. Thank you
Speaker 1: Thank you again for coming on, comeback anytime, you know,
Speaker 1: if there's a Christmas movie, for example, that you want
Speaker 1: to talk to us about four hours where four for
Speaker 1: our podcast, Let's do it? Hell yeah. Um. You can
Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter and Instagram at pectel Cast. You
Speaker 1: can check out our Matreon at patreon dot com slash
Speaker 1: s pectel Cast, which is five dollars a month. It
Speaker 1: gets you two bonus episodes every month, plus access to
Speaker 1: the entire back catalog. You know, take a bath, take
Speaker 1: a nap, you're gonna be You're gonna be fine, drink
Speaker 1: a tea, you know, and and really practice self care
Speaker 1: now and always I want. I watched um, the first
Speaker 1: half hour of My Big Fat Greek Wedding after finishing
Speaker 1: Promising Young Woman last night because I'm like, we just
Speaker 1: need a palate lenser, which yeah, it's good, Yeah indeed, Okay,
Speaker 1: bye bye