Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always
Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. As we begin today's episode,
Speaker 1: which is a very special episode, by the way, one
Speaker 1: I'm quite excited about. Why don't why don't all our
Speaker 1: fellow ridiculous historians just take a gander at our feet?
Speaker 1: What are you wearing? Uh? You know, are you? Are
Speaker 1: you going more barefoot on natural in these our days
Speaker 1: of pandemic? Maybe you got some house sandals. Maybe you
Speaker 1: have some l A lights or other kind of uh,
Speaker 1: they might be called gimmicky shoes. We'll we'll update you
Speaker 1: on what our super producer Casey Pegram and our producer
Speaker 1: Max Williams are wearing at some point in the future.
Speaker 1: But today's episode is about shoes, maybe not the way
Speaker 1: you think. And in today's episode, I am joined, I'm ben.
Speaker 1: I'm joined by a very special guest. You've heard him
Speaker 1: on the show before, you've heard us talk about him
Speaker 1: on the show before. Fellow Ridiculous Historians, please join me
Speaker 1: and welcoming the one the Only Mr Matt Frederick. Oh wow,
Speaker 1: you messed up. You messed up, And let me back
Speaker 1: in Oh, and the crowd goes wild. Not since that
Speaker 1: terribly recorded hotel episode, have you seen or heard of
Speaker 1: me on this show? Well? That was you were in
Speaker 1: character for much of that episode as well, weren't you. Yeah?
Speaker 1: I just remember I was trying to engineer it and
Speaker 1: figure out how to get my voice on it, and
Speaker 1: it was in a hotel. That's right, we had We
Speaker 1: have been through. Uh, We've been through some weird trenches
Speaker 1: in this In these careers of ours, Matt, We've recorded
Speaker 1: in hotels, We've been stuck in airports and cars together.
Speaker 1: There are some pretty neat stories that we can maybe
Speaker 1: share along the way. My first question for you, Matt,
Speaker 1: dear dear friend, kind of shoes are you wearing? Bro? Oh,
Speaker 1: let me check the old feet here. I've got on
Speaker 1: some Columbia like water resistant hiking shoes right now, hiking
Speaker 1: shoes on. Okay, I like it. Uh, Folks, you may
Speaker 1: not know this, but Matt and I are are somewhat
Speaker 1: similar in that we both were both weirdly prepared for things.
Speaker 1: So are you weirdly prepared to take a hike? Under
Speaker 1: my desk where I'm recording right now, there's a go bag.
Speaker 1: So there's one in my car, and there's one immediately
Speaker 1: here where I can reach down and grab it. Have
Speaker 1: got I'm hiking books already. We're ready to go, throw
Speaker 1: the kid on my shoulder, get out of here, just
Speaker 1: in case the zoom meeting goes wrong. Go yeah, and
Speaker 1: they can go very wrong, as we have all learned,
Speaker 1: but nothing yet. So well, we'll see. It's funny. We're
Speaker 1: we're sitting here chatting about something going wrong and an
Speaker 1: ambulance literally went by or a police officer. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure which siren that was, but it immediately went off
Speaker 1: on in Ben's zoom. Yes, that's true. I am. I
Speaker 1: live in a somewhat infamous part of town here in Atlanta,
Speaker 1: as do you, Matt. Actually, now I think about it,
Speaker 1: and you know, as a recordings sometimes this will be
Speaker 1: the street I live on as a main artery for
Speaker 1: the city, so we'll hear what I sometimes call non
Speaker 1: consensual ubers that are that are taking people to and fro.
Speaker 1: But today's episode is something that Matt, I had specifically
Speaker 1: asked you to hang out with and talk about with
Speaker 1: me here because there's a little bit of background. Um
Speaker 1: to say it in a sentence today we're talking about
Speaker 1: this weird tendency for people to where very very pointy shoes.
Speaker 1: Like not, when we say pointy, we're not talking about
Speaker 1: high heels that come to a point, or maybe pointy
Speaker 1: dress shoes. We're talking about something that you have actually
Speaker 1: seen in the modern day matt in your neck of
Speaker 1: the Atlanta woods, right, Yes, it's it's very true. We
Speaker 1: are talking about shoes that you may imagine only seeing
Speaker 1: in ancient medieval paintings, maybe seeing gosh, where else would
Speaker 1: you see something like this, Maybe if you've been to
Speaker 1: a museum at some point and you've seen armor that
Speaker 1: soldiers would wear, very specific soldiers from specific places. But yes,
Speaker 1: in my neck of the woods there exists these types
Speaker 1: of extremely pointy shoes. I cannot stress how extreme the
Speaker 1: point is. I live on Beufford Highway in Atlanta, which
Speaker 1: is an extremely ethnically diverse area, and there is a
Speaker 1: place close to where I live where there are a
Speaker 1: lot of dance clubs and music clubs that primarily are
Speaker 1: for Spanish speaking clientele and audience, and lots of music
Speaker 1: that comes directly out of Mexico and around these clubs.
Speaker 1: Let's say at a q T that is somewhat close
Speaker 1: to one of these clubs. If you're there at a
Speaker 1: certain time on the weekend, on a certain night, you
Speaker 1: will see shoes that defy both gravity and generally practical.
Speaker 1: Yes that it just doesn't make any sense until you
Speaker 1: begin to look into it, And that's what this whole
Speaker 1: episode is all about. Right, That's that's a great way
Speaker 1: to kick us off, because the story of weirdly elongated
Speaker 1: point to shoe is much much older than some of
Speaker 1: us might think today. We're talking about something that if
Speaker 1: your fancy is known as crack Ow or Poulaye, these
Speaker 1: are a kind of shoe with these dr Seussi and
Speaker 1: like pointy tips, and they take their name and what
Speaker 1: most people believe is their origin from the actual Crackow,
Speaker 1: the capital of Poland. And like Matt said, if you've
Speaker 1: ever been reading through an historical book about medieval Europe,
Speaker 1: or you've looked closely at medieval art, then you've probably
Speaker 1: seen these shoes before. You might not know that they
Speaker 1: have a story, but visually they're they're pretty hard to miss.
Speaker 1: They look bizarre, they look impractical, they look weird, and
Speaker 1: they were They were super duper popular, not just in Poland,
Speaker 1: but in England, all kinds of other parts of Europe.
Speaker 1: Can we can we talk a little bit about what
Speaker 1: the crack ow just in general looked like. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: imagine a shoe that is largely leather. It doesn't have
Speaker 1: the soul the way you'd imagine maybe your shoes do
Speaker 1: right now, doesn't have the kind of support that your
Speaker 1: shoes have. It's almost like a a leather wrap that's
Speaker 1: very hardy. Now imagine that at the end of that
Speaker 1: leather wrap that's around your foot, right by your toes,
Speaker 1: it extends out anywhere from six to fifteen inches, maybe
Speaker 1: even twenty inches twenty four inches if you're real nasty,
Speaker 1: uh and Weirdly, this is one of those fashion trends
Speaker 1: that has occurred throughout history, because there there are moments
Speaker 1: in trends where and I hate to separate it this way,
Speaker 1: but it is very much separated this way in books
Speaker 1: and in the research that we've got about this topic,
Speaker 1: separating men's fashion and women's fashion. This is one of
Speaker 1: those cases where it was mostly men, young men who
Speaker 1: were wearing these shoes. Yea, and in the europe in case,
Speaker 1: they were often a little more wealthy. They were the
Speaker 1: leisure class, because, as you can imagine just hearing that
Speaker 1: description these shoes, you couldn't get a lot of work
Speaker 1: done do it wearing these? You know. Uh people the
Speaker 1: people wore these were often considered gentlemen. They would stuff
Speaker 1: those pointy toes with hay or whale bone support. It
Speaker 1: was very important to them that they had perky points
Speaker 1: on their shoes. Nobody wanted floppity points, which I'm sure
Speaker 1: is the technical terms. Well, imagine the imagine the exactly
Speaker 1: imagine the materials you're you're talking about mostly leather and
Speaker 1: maybe a couple of other materials in there, So that
Speaker 1: would be crazy floppy if it was just some leather
Speaker 1: at the end. So yeah, the whale bone and also,
Speaker 1: well that's pretty that's like, that's not the thing the
Speaker 1: average peasant would have. Yes, they wouldn't. It wouldn't be
Speaker 1: like your rid old is whalebone. Gee, But who would
Speaker 1: have whalebone? The tailors who are making corsets right around
Speaker 1: that time and other pieces of clothing material that used
Speaker 1: whalebone quite often and was sold to people who are
Speaker 1: wealthy enough to buy the majority of their clothes. So,
Speaker 1: of course, the more conservative aspects of society, the rulers
Speaker 1: of society at the time, they hated this stuff. Of course,
Speaker 1: it had a silly name given by its opponents, these
Speaker 1: crack ow We're called devil's fingers, which is maybe I'm
Speaker 1: thinking of ladies fingers, but today that sounds like it
Speaker 1: would be the name of a snack made by hostess
Speaker 1: or something. You know what I mean, Devil's fingers, But that,
Speaker 1: you know, anything that's out of the ordinary, you can
Speaker 1: imagine a large religious institution such as the Church of
Speaker 1: England would take issue with it, because if it's different
Speaker 1: and strange, it probably has something the fare us going
Speaker 1: on in your mind, as the Church of England. So
Speaker 1: let's say you're back in this time. He got your
Speaker 1: first pair of pikes, as they might have also been called,
Speaker 1: and you're thinking, who do I need to thank for
Speaker 1: these amazing shoes? I am officially ankled down like one
Speaker 1: of the coolest people on the planet. Who should I
Speaker 1: send the thank you card? Too? Well, that would be
Speaker 1: count Folk of Andrew. At least that's what a lot
Speaker 1: of historians say that he is the source of this
Speaker 1: in Europe, and the story about why he's the source
Speaker 1: of this in Europe is speculative, but sad. The idea
Speaker 1: is that he started poo lanes as a trend because
Speaker 1: he had some sort of foot deformity. Yeah, and that's
Speaker 1: kind of the right. That's like maybe the origins of it.
Speaker 1: But we can't tell for sure, because we do know
Speaker 1: that pointed toad shoes were a thing well before this.
Speaker 1: It was it was something that was happening prior to
Speaker 1: count Folk. Count FULK. I really like count FULK. It
Speaker 1: sounds like a villain. Just the name Folk sounds sort
Speaker 1: of like if he were in the Marvel universe, he
Speaker 1: would be a villain. Yes, yes, yes, but so so
Speaker 1: before we count FULK. In the in what would be
Speaker 1: considered the Middle East or the Near Middle East, there
Speaker 1: has been a tradition of somewhat pointed shoes since good
Speaker 1: Lord with three thousand b C. Three excuse me, excuse me,
Speaker 1: not BC anymore? What is it? D c E. There
Speaker 1: we go before a common era, the Istanbul not Constantinople,
Speaker 1: kind of kind of situation going on BC and b C. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right. It was around for millennia literally, and Folk,
Speaker 1: it was also sometimes known as Folk of Jerusalem, went
Speaker 1: on a crusade in eleven twenty and he stayed in
Speaker 1: the Middle East until his death twenty three years later
Speaker 1: in three So this leads historians to conjecture it's possible
Speaker 1: that crusaders in the twelfth century were influenced by the
Speaker 1: trends they saw in the Middle East, and then when
Speaker 1: they came back to the West, they carried some of
Speaker 1: these fashions with them, which is pretty common during those
Speaker 1: sorts of regional conflicts. Oh yeah, what do you bring back?
Speaker 1: Spices for sure, because if you control the spice, you
Speaker 1: know how it goes. Then, um, fabrics of any kind.
Speaker 1: We know the history of silk and how it ended
Speaker 1: up going across the world, and really other types of
Speaker 1: clothing that were just would be considered highly unique, somewhat
Speaker 1: bizarre to the rest of society in a different part
Speaker 1: of the world. Yeah, and this happens during, of course,
Speaker 1: the many branches of international trade over history to games
Speaker 1: like what we would recognize his chess today, migrate along
Speaker 1: trade patterns. I love that you point out spices and
Speaker 1: food that kind of stuff, especially I would say spices
Speaker 1: or more commodity at this point than they are considered
Speaker 1: a food stuff, right, Like this is a species that
Speaker 1: used peppercorns for currency once upon a time. It's true
Speaker 1: we dig spices. I mean you think about the first
Speaker 1: time something like Gara Massala made its way across. I
Speaker 1: remember the first time it made its way across to
Speaker 1: my palate. I haven't been the same since. Yes, it's
Speaker 1: a very specific change. We had a meeting about it
Speaker 1: at work. Uh so, yeah, I I know exactly what
Speaker 1: you mean there. And this is something that people still
Speaker 1: experience today. It's a very common part of human psychology.
Speaker 1: You want to be unique, you want to make a statement,
Speaker 1: and you also want to be up on the newest
Speaker 1: cool thing, whether it's the modern era or the Middle Ages.
Speaker 1: Everybody kind of wants to keep up with the Joneses
Speaker 1: and stay in front of the other, whomever the not
Speaker 1: Joneses are or the count folks in his in his crew. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so there's an issue here of exaggeration that occurs
Speaker 1: because even the longest pointy toad shoes in the Middle
Speaker 1: East had nothing on what was happening in Europe once
Speaker 1: they found out about this pattern. Because the Middle Eastern
Speaker 1: shoes didn't have points that were more than half of
Speaker 1: the length of the foot they were, they were usually
Speaker 1: they were just like a modest point about two inches
Speaker 1: beyond the longest toe. That's it. That's it. So they
Speaker 1: look they look cool, they look distinctive, but you can
Speaker 1: also do stuff in them. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1: And and it's it's something we should point out that
Speaker 1: the style of shoe was pretty dang popular until century.
Speaker 1: And it's not like it just showed up, made a
Speaker 1: huge splash everybody wore and then it went away. It's
Speaker 1: just one of those trends that it became popular and
Speaker 1: it continued on and around that time, kind of early
Speaker 1: on in the trend in the Western world with these
Speaker 1: pointed shoes. It wasn't like they were going ham in
Speaker 1: the West either about this. They weren't trying to go
Speaker 1: two feet out from the foot like some of the
Speaker 1: craziness we mentioned at the top of this episode. They were.
Speaker 1: There was a pretty standard thing. It was just okay,
Speaker 1: well there's a pointed shoe and it looks pretty good.
Speaker 1: But it never really went away. It just kind of
Speaker 1: stuck around for a while until the fourteenth century. Okay,
Speaker 1: the fourteenth century. They are these Western merchants who were
Speaker 1: trading in the Baltic region. They travel to areas of
Speaker 1: the Baltics where these shoes are quite popular, and they say, oh,
Speaker 1: we've discovered these, and so they call it the Poland
Speaker 1: fashion or poo lane to style, and they take it
Speaker 1: back to Western Europe. According to the Museum of London,
Speaker 1: the term Polane evolves from French term that just means
Speaker 1: from Poland. So they were basically calling them Poland shoes
Speaker 1: or later Krackow shoes. That's right. And as it became
Speaker 1: more and more popular. How this as the trend grew,
Speaker 1: so did there we go, Yes, there's a toe based
Speaker 1: arms race here to be the coolest kid. You could
Speaker 1: literally say that with the foolish lengths for fashion, the Polanes,
Speaker 1: we think, oh and shout out to our research associate Gabe.
Speaker 1: That's that's that's one of the things he really wanted
Speaker 1: to hit. So they have a Gabe. If Gabe ever
Speaker 1: puts in a pun or writes writes a cool turner phrase,
Speaker 1: we're very quick to platform and we were at no
Speaker 1: pun left behind show. You know, sometimes that doesn't always
Speaker 1: work out, but it's about the principle. So so the
Speaker 1: ones we think of today when we think of point
Speaker 1: issues in in historical documents and in illustrations from the time.
Speaker 1: They probably did come about in forty or roundabouts in
Speaker 1: Poland and crack out. And then Polish nobles came to
Speaker 1: visit the Polish wife of the British King Richard the second.
Speaker 1: And when these nobles came, of course they showed out.
Speaker 1: They're wearing their best, their coolest gear, right, you know,
Speaker 1: the good cloak, the clean breaches, and of course they're
Speaker 1: going to rock the crackhouse. What are you talking about? Yeah, dude,
Speaker 1: they show up in court and you know how English
Speaker 1: court went at that time, you know, like and we're
Speaker 1: not talking about a court like with a judge. They're
Speaker 1: just in these massive rooms where everyone is just displaying
Speaker 1: and hanging out. And one they're just having so much
Speaker 1: merriment because they don't have to do anything. All of
Speaker 1: their servants are doing everything for them. They just get
Speaker 1: to have a good old time. And you, oh, there
Speaker 1: were some English dudes over they're going good. God, do
Speaker 1: you see the points on those shoes? The audacity audacity
Speaker 1: do not have a power for us? What what what?
Speaker 1: What would be? What's the reason for this? But certainly
Speaker 1: they're doing something with those points, right, I know, it's not,
Speaker 1: but they have flexed too hard. You're right, You're right.
Speaker 1: We must make we must make our own and much
Speaker 1: more pointy. Yeah, indeed, and that is a that is
Speaker 1: a you know, obviously a historical, accurate, historical reenactment. We
Speaker 1: translated that from the dialect of the time. It's true.
Speaker 1: And the thing is, they would have known a little
Speaker 1: bit about slightly pointy shoes, just that ridiculously pointy shoes,
Speaker 1: because they've they had that. Um, do you remember I
Speaker 1: Like Big Butts by Serve Mix a Lot. No, I
Speaker 1: can't remember that song at all. It's just my mantra
Speaker 1: for every day, right, because you're never constantly singing that
Speaker 1: whenever we're not on air. Yeah, the I've picked her.
Speaker 1: Maybe those two, those two folks in court are like
Speaker 1: the two women at the beginning of I Like Big Butts.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Becky, look at her, Oh my god, Becky,
Speaker 1: look at his shoes. They're so pointing and they are big.
Speaker 1: So you know, I guess it really does mesh up.
Speaker 1: Do you think he's one of those Polish nobles boyfriends.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do the whole thing. No, No, we're not
Speaker 1: gonna get to the verse but uh, but maybe right,
Speaker 1: write the lyrics if you'd like, we'd love to hear
Speaker 1: from you. You can post them at Ridiculous Historians on Facebook. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is something they've never seen it taken to this level.
Speaker 1: And so for over a century, actually a ton of
Speaker 1: mainly as you said earlier, Matt, a ton of male
Speaker 1: nobles were wearing these in Europe, and it became such
Speaker 1: a craze that every person who could afford shoes wore
Speaker 1: some form of polis. Though in general we're talking about
Speaker 1: the big tippers. They really are the realm of nobility
Speaker 1: because those folks can just walk around. I'll say it.
Speaker 1: I'll say it clown shoes there when they get to
Speaker 1: that point, and not a comment on any current trends,
Speaker 1: but when they get to that point in medieval Europe,
Speaker 1: they are like clown shoes. They're hard to walk it.
Speaker 1: It almost seems as though they are purposely designed to
Speaker 1: have comedic effect. There's the perfect time to talk about
Speaker 1: the walking styles of people's before the advent of shoes,
Speaker 1: modern shoes, with the types of heels that we have,
Speaker 1: even even with the you know, the most lowly of
Speaker 1: the shoe. Right now that you can find anywhere to
Speaker 1: the fanciest of shoe. There is a style that we
Speaker 1: really have, and it affects the way humans walk because
Speaker 1: these shoes make us walk on the heel of our
Speaker 1: foot a lot of times. But if you're wearing the
Speaker 1: types of shoes that a lot of the folks will
Speaker 1: be wearing back then you're going to be walking on
Speaker 1: the ball of your foot right up there by your toes.
Speaker 1: So it's a very different walking style. And you can
Speaker 1: see some videos online, by the way, like Historical Body
Speaker 1: Mechanics by Roland. I don't know how to say it correctly,
Speaker 1: but cha, I think brilliant stuff really shows you the
Speaker 1: difference in the way people walked back then as opposed
Speaker 1: to the way they walk now. And these giant pointed
Speaker 1: shoes really would have had an effect on your ability
Speaker 1: to walk around. Yeah, you're a slowly right. It's strange
Speaker 1: because there are so many things in the history of
Speaker 1: fashion that seemed purposely designed two exhibit the fact, or
Speaker 1: to draw attention to the fact that the person rocking
Speaker 1: these fashions does not have to work the same way
Speaker 1: that other people do, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 1: some of those traditions can be quite horrific, like the
Speaker 1: practice of foot binding right in China. So this this
Speaker 1: isn't to that level. But it's clearly it's just silly.
Speaker 1: It's clear like your fleet. You clearly want people to
Speaker 1: know that you are, you know, like you're down with
Speaker 1: polish shoes. And you also don't have to have a
Speaker 1: job almost but well, yeah, it's pretty much that you don't.
Speaker 1: You at least don't have to walk in in any distance.
Speaker 1: You can go from one side of the room to
Speaker 1: the other. And if you shuffle a little bit, if
Speaker 1: you you don't have to move your feet a little differently,
Speaker 1: that's fine. But you're not going down to the market ever.
Speaker 1: In those carriage, right right right, it better be a
Speaker 1: good carriage, and in the driver of the carriage must
Speaker 1: also have plains, but they can't be as big as mine,
Speaker 1: says the noble. And that's actually that's the next thing
Speaker 1: that's really weird about this. So we know that fashion
Speaker 1: trends often not always, They evolve the number of different
Speaker 1: ways through societies. But fashion trends can often or trends
Speaker 1: of any sort can often start in the upper echelons
Speaker 1: of society and then they filter down and as they
Speaker 1: filter down increasingly toward whatever the you would think of
Speaker 1: as the commoner. At that point in that society, they
Speaker 1: become less important and less prestigious to the people who
Speaker 1: are there in the first place. This happens today with
Speaker 1: all sorts of things. We do have one important difference
Speaker 1: though here in the modern day in the US, as
Speaker 1: no one is going to make a law that's like
Speaker 1: if if for some reason, silly hats very particularly, what
Speaker 1: are those hats that like go on the back of
Speaker 1: your head. Kids wear them and they have a little
Speaker 1: propeller you know I'm talking about. I have no idea
Speaker 1: what those are called? Um de bops spinning hats, Yeah,
Speaker 1: deally bops. Okay, so what so like let's say, uh,
Speaker 1: let's say the current president and La Musk and like
Speaker 1: Dame Judy Dench Angela Merkel, they all just start wearing
Speaker 1: those deily bops and no one says anything. It's just
Speaker 1: super cool. Is it called a propeller hat or know
Speaker 1: what it's called? I honestly have no idea spinner hat,
Speaker 1: spinner hat. So so just for this example, which I
Speaker 1: think I might have paid us into a quarter here, okay,
Speaker 1: we'll try to sew it up. So imagine that happened
Speaker 1: in one and then other people for some reason also
Speaker 1: thought it was cool and they were like, I want
Speaker 1: to be like the Titans of industry. Queen Elizabeth's got
Speaker 1: one too, why not? And they're like, I want to
Speaker 1: wear one in these Well, then now you totally could.
Speaker 1: There would probably still be that same pattern where it's
Speaker 1: where in the the well to do like these hats,
Speaker 1: less and less is more and more people rock them,
Speaker 1: and the spinners get larger and larger and larger and longer,
Speaker 1: and soon we don't need cars or helicopters. Thousands die.
Speaker 1: But but the difference here is that at this time
Speaker 1: in Europe, the authorities were capable of making things called
Speaker 1: some story laws, which meant that if they didn't like
Speaker 1: other people rocking their style, they could make laws that
Speaker 1: told certain classes of society, based upon where they were
Speaker 1: in a larger hierarchy, what they were allowed to wear
Speaker 1: or do or say often as well or eat. That's
Speaker 1: a good one based right, yeah, yeah, exactly, So we
Speaker 1: have the breakdown, right, Yes, if you're a commoner, you
Speaker 1: must you can wear a pool, but it must be short,
Speaker 1: very short. I think you go up to how off
Speaker 1: of a foot for a commoner? Now that's all you get,
Speaker 1: that's correct. Now, if you've leveled up and you are
Speaker 1: a bourgeoisie, you may have a round of foot, let's
Speaker 1: say one foot. Now if you are a night oh goodness,
Speaker 1: well you may have one and a half feet. Now
Speaker 1: that's great. One and a half feet for a night,
Speaker 1: really functional, really great for the battlefield, really good for
Speaker 1: just everything. Jousting, sword battles, even archery. Has really helped
Speaker 1: out with the old poutine, poutine and then let's do
Speaker 1: it the hats. The shoes were also often stuffed with
Speaker 1: with kurds and grady and can you imagine the smell?
Speaker 1: Not only is it old leather, but all that stuff
Speaker 1: in it. Have you ever you've ever smelled poutine and thought,
Speaker 1: I wish this smelled a little bit more like feet,
Speaker 1: like unwashed feet. You know, I really have just add
Speaker 1: some blue cheese in there, like you know, get a
Speaker 1: little off the road and do that. But we're not
Speaker 1: done here. So nights are great. Nights are awesome. But
Speaker 1: what if you're a noble, Oh my god, you may
Speaker 1: have all the way up to two feet. But if
Speaker 1: you're here hanging out with the royalty, and maybe you're
Speaker 1: a prince two and a half for you, pal, guess
Speaker 1: what you win? You win the crack owl game. You've
Speaker 1: got two and a half feet of extra leather just
Speaker 1: flopping around unless you get that great whalebone in. In
Speaker 1: this case, you're noble, so you've definitely got the bones
Speaker 1: two and a half feet straight up. Points son, that's
Speaker 1: how they talk. No, you're right like that at that point.
Speaker 1: Just physically structurally, those whalebone inserts might not be the
Speaker 1: best choice. So some of these princes these top of
Speaker 1: the top of the shoe game, they had to use
Speaker 1: these gold or silver chains attached from the tip of
Speaker 1: the shoe to their knees in order to walk. This
Speaker 1: looks even more clownish, but it's the origin of this
Speaker 1: French expression. And my French is terrible. I'll have to
Speaker 1: ask Casey later. But it means they're very to live
Speaker 1: on a large foot. So it's literally it's very on
Speaker 1: the nose, are very on the toe. It is referring
Speaker 1: to that, and and people knew it was extravagant, and
Speaker 1: they knew it wasn't practical, and that was part of
Speaker 1: the peel you would. You would also want to this
Speaker 1: is so weird. So we okay, we know about novelty
Speaker 1: footwear in the modern day. Like I had Rebot pumps,
Speaker 1: I had l a lights when I was a kid.
Speaker 1: I like that. They did this too, but these were
Speaker 1: grown ups. They had like a little bell on the
Speaker 1: on the shoes sometimes when they were you know, at
Speaker 1: a party, at a soiree, or they would even make
Speaker 1: an ornament in the shape of a bird beak and
Speaker 1: the's a dangle from the tip of the shoe. So
Speaker 1: everywhere they were walking, they were not only flopping he
Speaker 1: flopping around, but it was also like a coming throughs. Yeah, sorry, sorry,
Speaker 1: that's perfect. I really really wish we had our friend
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickling on the show right now because he has
Speaker 1: so much experience just in the Middle Ages. Uh man,
Speaker 1: He's just been around everywhere he goes. He goes out
Speaker 1: in the middle of Georgia and just time travels at
Speaker 1: least once a year. Careful, careful, men. It's it's like
Speaker 1: beetlejuice rules, you know. Yeah, we just have to be careful,
Speaker 1: that's all I'm saying. It's he's always listening. Is the issue.
Speaker 1: I don't know how. I'm just saying I think he's
Speaker 1: played a character before where he had one of those
Speaker 1: one of one of those pointy shoes and then he
Speaker 1: had the thing tied around his knee. I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: I've seen him in that get up. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: he kills it at Renaissance, at the annual Renaissance Fair
Speaker 1: Renaissance Festival. Oh yeah, the that's the rural time travel
Speaker 1: thing I was talking about. Cool. I'm glad they're the
Speaker 1: same thing. I thought I was picking up what you
Speaker 1: were putting down, but I didn't want to presume. Oh
Speaker 1: no worries. So don't say Jonathan Strickland again. You're saying, yeah, seriously,
Speaker 1: that it happened. This is something that happens on this show.
Speaker 1: I should have mentioned this earlier. Sometimes we get so
Speaker 1: into an idea, a strange story that we're exploring that
Speaker 1: we end up making a two part episode. And that's
Speaker 1: what you and I have just done. Man, this is
Speaker 1: this all this right now is just part one. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 1: So somehow we have warped into the first episode of two.
Speaker 1: I really thought this was all one big thing. Like I.
Speaker 1: If you would have you know, if you were to
Speaker 1: just say this to me in the middle of nowhere,
Speaker 1: like it's happening right now, I'll be so confused. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the that's that's the that's on me. You know, honestly,
Speaker 1: I can't put on Casey or Max or Andrew. That
Speaker 1: one's on me. But I can't wait for us to
Speaker 1: continue on part two. Are you gonna stay for part two?
Speaker 1: I guess? I mean if if you'll have me, Are
Speaker 1: you kidding? Please? If we didn't have you on part two,
Speaker 1: then it would be like a crack owl without without
Speaker 1: the toe. What's the point? Oh wow, that did not last.
Speaker 1: That did not last. I think it would be like
Speaker 1: it would be like the crack owl without the whale bone.
Speaker 1: It would just be real floppy. Yeah, that is Thank
Speaker 1: you for saving everyone from a floppity part two. We're
Speaker 1: gonna call it a day here, folks. Thanks as always
Speaker 1: to our super producers Casey Pegram, our guest producers Andrew Howard,
Speaker 1: Max Williams, and Alex Williams, who composed this banging track. Matt,
Speaker 1: thank you so very much for joining us today. Sir.
Speaker 1: The last word goes to you. It could be any
Speaker 1: word you watch and then after that word, if the
Speaker 1: spirit so moves you maybe could tell the rest of
Speaker 1: our fellow ridiculous historians where they can find more of
Speaker 1: your work. Last word, Jonathan, don't don't, don't do do
Speaker 1: do do it seriously don't? Okay, alright, fine, fine, fine, um.
Speaker 1: How about strange arrivals. That's it. That's really it. That's
Speaker 1: all we got. And campell and ephemeral sees it two
Speaker 1: and stuff they don't want you to know. If you're
Speaker 1: not listening to stuff they don't want you to know,
Speaker 1: get ready for something awesome that's about to happen on
Speaker 1: that feed. So make sure you're over there. That's right, Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: So Matt and I started stuff they don't want you
Speaker 1: to know years and years ago, and we've done some
Speaker 1: very weird things over our time on that show. We
Speaker 1: have something extra special for you. This is Oh, it's
Speaker 1: a weird way. Okay, we can't tell. We can't divulge
Speaker 1: much for about that, other than we hope you tune
Speaker 1: in for part two of kraw I don't know why
Speaker 1: I've been saying it in an increasingly stentious accent off air.
Speaker 1: Uh for pointy shoes. Yep, pointy shoes. Too extra point
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. Oh yeah. Just join us. Please,
Speaker 1: we'll see you ex time. For more podcasts for my
Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.