Speaker 1: So, look, man, my kid had a soccer game today
Speaker 1: and the coach ran up on Casey and I after
Speaker 1: the game and was like, you know, what's going on
Speaker 1: with Rocco. He's so aggressive at practice and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: but then when he's playing these games, he's so nice
Speaker 1: to these other kids. And that was a conversation that
Speaker 1: Rocko and I had in the car on the way
Speaker 1: home one. You know, it was like, dude, you can
Speaker 1: be aggressive on the field. I get it that you're
Speaker 1: trying to, you know, not hurt anybody's feelings, but these
Speaker 1: kids are running all over you guys because you kids
Speaker 1: are being so nice and everything, trying not to bump
Speaker 1: anybody or whatever it is. And so the coach asked
Speaker 1: us to talk to Rocko about his leadership skills, which
Speaker 1: is crazy because he's only seven years old. But wait,
Speaker 1: the problem the coach is basically saying, he's like rough
Speaker 1: and humble at practice, but when he's playing another team,
Speaker 1: he's too nice. Yeah, like they get kind of the
Speaker 1: kids get kind of soft and afraid. But granted, this
Speaker 1: is their first season ever, this is Rocco's first year.
Speaker 1: He's only played playing soccer for six months. You know,
Speaker 1: what I mean. And he's been getting by on his athleticism,
Speaker 1: and now his athleticism, you know, isn't enough. He needs
Speaker 1: to be aggressive. Is he good? He's all right, you know,
Speaker 1: he's you know, what's his best sport? He'd say it's
Speaker 1: he'd say it's basketball. But you know, I'll destroy him.
Speaker 1: There's such the father athletic father. You're you're actually like
Speaker 1: Turk when he when he when he does the fake
Speaker 1: arm wrestle with with Carla. There's no way I can
Speaker 1: let this kid beat me until he can actually beat me.
Speaker 1: You don't know how that is that for parents that
Speaker 1: are into sports. Is that a technique like don't let
Speaker 1: them win? Yeah, because they think they're good. They're good,
Speaker 1: and they think they're too good if you let them
Speaker 1: beat you, you know what I mean? Like, so I
Speaker 1: let Rocco beat me a couple of times in basketball.
Speaker 1: He started walking around the house like I'm the best
Speaker 1: basketball telling people I'm the best basketball player in this house.
Speaker 1: And I was like, wait, hold on one second. Kid,
Speaker 1: he really believe that. He's like, yeah, I'm better than you.
Speaker 1: And I was like, all right, let's go outside and
Speaker 1: let me show you how it really is. Your hi.
Speaker 1: I took him outside and didn't let him score one basket, right,
Speaker 1: and I didn't. This is this is continued for the
Speaker 1: last about two weeks. And yesterday we're outside and we're
Speaker 1: playing basketball and this little fucker pump fakes and then
Speaker 1: goes under and scores a basket on me. I was sold. Like,
Speaker 1: part of me, I'm proud, I'm like, Okay, now he's
Speaker 1: starting to understand what's going on. But the other part
Speaker 1: was like, this little motherfucker scored on me. Oh, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, he's getting good. No, fuck that man,
Speaker 1: he can't be he can't listen. The truth of the
Speaker 1: matter is, until he can beat me, he cannot beat me.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying reminds me of my dog
Speaker 1: trainer who said, don't ever let the dog win in
Speaker 1: the tug of war with the toy. Why would the
Speaker 1: trainers say that to you? Do you think you don't
Speaker 1: want the dog to think they have more power than you,
Speaker 1: Like you're the you're the leader of the pack, and
Speaker 1: you're the strongest you know, in the dog's mind. I'm
Speaker 1: assuming that's the psychology behind it, right, so, and and
Speaker 1: they might get too aggressive if they think they can
Speaker 1: win if they try hard. You know, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't know, but I just remember the trainers saying, play
Speaker 1: tug of war, you want all you want, but they
Speaker 1: can never win. Remind me that same thing, same thing here.
Speaker 1: He can get as the only way he's going to
Speaker 1: get better is if he has to compete against me.
Speaker 1: And that's what the coach was saying, like he's these
Speaker 1: guys got wasted by these kids. And in the beginning
Speaker 1: Rock was like, we're about to beat these guys. And
Speaker 1: it was like and once the game started, they were
Speaker 1: pushing them around and you know, tripping them and it's
Speaker 1: a soccer and all of these they're getting upset. The
Speaker 1: where the kids was Rocco like upset when they no.
Speaker 1: He was just taking it like it was a game.
Speaker 1: And the coach at the end of the game had
Speaker 1: to tell like, we're paying a lot of money. It's
Speaker 1: club soccer, so we're paying a lot of money for this,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And if the kids aren't
Speaker 1: going to get better, then we got to take them
Speaker 1: out of soccer. This is just how it is. Get
Speaker 1: better or we need that money. It's it's that's real talk.
Speaker 1: That's how it is. Man, You guys lost three games
Speaker 1: in a row. We're gonna take that money and go
Speaker 1: to Hawaii. It's better well spent in Hawaii watching my
Speaker 1: kid get his ass kicked over and over again. It's
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure though. Well you know that he
Speaker 1: wants a new animation table. Yeah, he wanted to play soccer.
Speaker 1: That's how it goes. But speaking of traveling all of
Speaker 1: that stuff, freaking we are loving this. Two soon got
Speaker 1: two son from the good people in Hunday. How's it going?
Speaker 1: They hooked it up? Okay, So first of all, they've
Speaker 1: tricked it out, like so it's like to the max.
Speaker 1: I know hunda used to be like you know, thought
Speaker 1: of as as not a luxury brand. But you rolled
Speaker 1: up in that car. It's pretty sick, dude. Let me
Speaker 1: tell you something right now with the features. First of all,
Speaker 1: I turn on the car and it's it hums. My
Speaker 1: wife was like, I could hear you coming up the block.
Speaker 1: The car's humming, and it's not it's a hum like
Speaker 1: a right, so it's kind of quiet. But for some
Speaker 1: reason my wife could hear it and it's a hybrid,
Speaker 1: right like, because I know you were you were you
Speaker 1: were interested in getting off of full gas cars. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: it's a hybrid, you know what I really want though,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, and I'm sure they make it. Also
Speaker 1: is an electric Tucson as well, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: hybrid is great, but I'm trying to get on that
Speaker 1: solar electric. So it's not solar, but you know that's
Speaker 1: I'm trying to. I'm trying to. I'm trying to be
Speaker 1: as clean on energy as I am with my food nowadays.
Speaker 1: So well good, and I think, you know, I do
Speaker 1: think it's pretty cool that Hunde's relaunch is all about
Speaker 1: safety and UH and going green. Anyway, I turn on
Speaker 1: the car and immediately the people, the good people at
Speaker 1: Hundai have put on the serious satellite station that is
Speaker 1: UH orchestra music. Yeah, and so the cars like d
Speaker 1: D D D d D. So the cars are already
Speaker 1: in an elite on an elite level. Right, the kids
Speaker 1: getting moved classy moved to deliver it with classical playing
Speaker 1: going yeah right right, so the hip hop like they
Speaker 1: knew me, and they turned on the car. It was
Speaker 1: jay Z no no no, no no, right, and so
Speaker 1: the kids get in and they're like, holy cow, this
Speaker 1: is nice. The cars blue on the outside, but on
Speaker 1: the inside it's got like a creamy interior. So right
Speaker 1: then in their fire it's leather. It's got a huge screen,
Speaker 1: a huge screen to uh, you know, iPad size close
Speaker 1: to an iPad side, I'd say, like an iPad man,
Speaker 1: but a little bit bigger than that. Like, but the
Speaker 1: whole many right, and it displays you know, if you
Speaker 1: have a car play, it displays everything that a car
Speaker 1: play does. But then you drive the thing. And when
Speaker 1: I signal immediately instead of having to look out of
Speaker 1: my mirror, the camera on the side view mirror shows
Speaker 1: up in my dashboard, so now I can see I
Speaker 1: can see whatever is on the side of me when
Speaker 1: I do, you know what I mean? Like, look, here's
Speaker 1: here's a crazy thing. I don't know why more cars
Speaker 1: don't do that. That's really clever. Because I've been driving
Speaker 1: a loaner car because my friend fucked up my car.
Speaker 1: That's a long, boring story. But driving on the LA
Speaker 1: freeways is so crazy because I'm been driving to Chatsworth
Speaker 1: to do to do a cheaper by the dozen lately,
Speaker 1: and the people are just insane on the freeways. And
Speaker 1: now the thing I have the car, the loner car
Speaker 1: I have has a little light when that lights up
Speaker 1: on the rever mirror, on the side mirrors when someone's
Speaker 1: in your blind spot. But you just said that makes
Speaker 1: so much more sense with the technology that's going on today.
Speaker 1: Why not bring up a camera on the screen in
Speaker 1: front of you. That's small, so much smarter. It's crazy.
Speaker 1: When I reverse it into parking and everything, there's an
Speaker 1: overview shot of my car and it shows me the
Speaker 1: front and the back and how close I am. I
Speaker 1: have no idea. I'm guessing satellite. It shows me how
Speaker 1: close I am to the front, the car in front
Speaker 1: of me, and the car behind me. Here's the other
Speaker 1: thing that's crazy. Let's say you get distracted while you're
Speaker 1: talking about that's what I'm talking about. Let's say you
Speaker 1: get distracted while you're at the light, the red light.
Speaker 1: The car lets you know if there's another car in
Speaker 1: front of you. It lets you know that the lead
Speaker 1: car has pulled off by beating ding ding ding, and
Speaker 1: you look up and it says the lead car has
Speaker 1: I should go. Now this thing is fire. That's cool,
Speaker 1: But that's also telling you, hey, fucker, pay attention. What
Speaker 1: are you doing? No doubt, but it's easy to get
Speaker 1: distracted when you're at a light, you look to the right.
Speaker 1: That's cool. So they're kind of known Honday. It seems
Speaker 1: to me is sort of as they reintroduce themselves as
Speaker 1: trying to make a play for being like a super
Speaker 1: safe car with all these features. Right. Yeah, absolutely, they're
Speaker 1: they're definitely stepping it up a notch. Here's the honest
Speaker 1: and goodness truth to the good people at Honday. I'm
Speaker 1: not giving it back, by the way, We're going to
Speaker 1: do a full episode. So we came up with this idea. Yeah,
Speaker 1: obviously Honday is one of our sponsors and they've been
Speaker 1: super cool to us, and they said to us, what's
Speaker 1: an episode you guys would do that we could be
Speaker 1: a part of it you wouldn't normally do. And so
Speaker 1: Donald and I came up this idea, like, what if
Speaker 1: we drive around LA and Joel and Danil will be
Speaker 1: in the back seat, and we'll like go and visit
Speaker 1: all of the places, whether it's the old location of
Speaker 1: the Scrubs hospital which is now apartment buildings, or different
Speaker 1: places in our own lives, like our first houses in
Speaker 1: LA and just sort of tell anecdotes and stories of
Speaker 1: our own life, both related to scrubs and not by
Speaker 1: driving around LA. And we're gonna do that relatively soon, right, Joel.
Speaker 1: I think of Jude episode. Oh I could, I'll be
Speaker 1: wrapped and um and we can do it. But that's
Speaker 1: gonna be cool. Now will I be able to drive
Speaker 1: or will you be the only driver? Because I would
Speaker 1: like my man, my name is my name is the
Speaker 1: only one on the lease. But you know I had, Joel.
Speaker 1: I think I had Joelle put me on driver's license, right, Joel, Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: you are now approved to drive because Donald, I no
Speaker 1: offense to you. I do think I'm a slightly better
Speaker 1: driver than you, dude. I took stunt driving when I
Speaker 1: first started doing this thing. I'm a way better driver
Speaker 1: than really. So maybe we could get another Honday and
Speaker 1: have a drive competition, Joel. So you want to race,
Speaker 1: You're saying, you're saying you want to race. I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, if you want to fast and furious
Speaker 1: this thing. Yes, I would like to go to a
Speaker 1: track they have. There are tracks in LA where you
Speaker 1: can bring your own car. I don't know if Honday
Speaker 1: is gonna be down with this idea, But who wear helmet?
Speaker 1: We're well, we'll wear helmets and everything's fine if you
Speaker 1: wear a helmet and we will race. Okay, there it is.
Speaker 1: Can we like hit each other like no, I don't
Speaker 1: think where they bang each other on the speeder bikes,
Speaker 1: none of that. Okay, cool, there is no But um no,
Speaker 1: I'm still I think that's gonna be fun. And I'm
Speaker 1: glad you're liking your car and I love it, man,
Speaker 1: I kids, the kids are so excited about it, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like, usually you get in the
Speaker 1: car with your kids and within five minutes they have
Speaker 1: messed up the car. But this thing is so nice
Speaker 1: that they're trying their best not to spill their food
Speaker 1: on the inside inside or cream it's creamy. Well, eventually
Speaker 1: I'm sure to make them, make them no, no food,
Speaker 1: make them more, make them more gloves. You know those
Speaker 1: gloves that people wear when they handle art. Kids need
Speaker 1: to put those on. No, I don't think that will
Speaker 1: ever happen. But it's just so nice and it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's got great sensors on the side to stop you
Speaker 1: from you know, if you're above the speed limit, it
Speaker 1: warned you that you're above the speed limit. Um, it's
Speaker 1: all about safety. It really is all about safety. It's
Speaker 1: such a nice car. By the way, did I tell
Speaker 1: you what Wilder said to me when she was at
Speaker 1: my house? She says, did Casey tell you? No? She
Speaker 1: keep Wilder because my goddaughter. I gave her a nice
Speaker 1: necklace for her birthday. And she comes up to me.
Speaker 1: She goes, thank you for my necklace. I go, oh,
Speaker 1: you're so welcome, sweetie. She goes, how many dollars did
Speaker 1: it take? Can you tell it? Can you tell it? Katy?
Speaker 1: So mama, dude. It was just funny the wording of it, like, oh,
Speaker 1: by the way, how many dollars did it take? And
Speaker 1: then Casey was so embarrassed. Casey was like time to
Speaker 1: go right, Sorry, sorry about that, but no, are you
Speaker 1: kidding me? Was adorable. I was laughing with her, but
Speaker 1: I didn't tell her how many dollars it took. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: let's get off of this for now because we are
Speaker 1: let's get onto another seed. Let's get into a c spira. See,
Speaker 1: let's get on too. Well. Listen, I want to tell
Speaker 1: the audience on what's going on. We we normally, as
Speaker 1: you know, almost always have people on related to Scrubs.
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a little bit of a different turn
Speaker 1: this week because Donald and I were both um blown
Speaker 1: away by the documentary c Spiracy, and because we are
Speaker 1: so fancy. We're such a fancy podcast that's all across
Speaker 1: the world. Now, the the code directors or the director
Speaker 1: and producer I forgot exactly what their titles are of
Speaker 1: the documentary have agreed to come on and talk to
Speaker 1: us about this amazing documentary that was number one in
Speaker 1: many many countries on Netflix. So that's how fancy we are. Donald,
Speaker 1: We're pretty fancy. Yeah, I'm feeling us right now. Hair,
Speaker 1: hair done, nails done, everything did? Um? All right? Are
Speaker 1: you ready containing a breaker? Are we go right into
Speaker 1: it or we're going maybe five six, seven eight about
Speaker 1: we made nurses? Okay, So check this out, Joel and
Speaker 1: I with the Black Side of Things to all of
Speaker 1: you fans out there of like The Mandalorian or Star Wars.
Speaker 1: I worked with a young lady who does hair or
Speaker 1: the Mandalorian and she's agreed to come on both Fake
Speaker 1: Doctors and on to the Black Side Podcast. And so
Speaker 1: I feel like this is a big pull one because
Speaker 1: she's said to me, I'll give you as much scoop
Speaker 1: as I can give you without getting fired. So that
Speaker 1: means we're gonna get some good things. We're gonna get
Speaker 1: some good things. We're gonna get some good things. And
Speaker 1: she says, and she said that. You know, she talks
Speaker 1: today quite a bit, and she has uh you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say she has trying to get into
Speaker 1: Sorry one day, Sorry, I hit the bay accident. It
Speaker 1: was a well timed accident. You know what, man, that's
Speaker 1: not cool. Okay, Uh, he says he can join now
Speaker 1: there he is. Ladies and gentlemen, give it up for HOLLI. Hi,
Speaker 1: how are you doing, bro? How are you doing it?
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, I'm so late. This is crazy. I
Speaker 1: was literally just watching garden State. No joke. You're late
Speaker 1: because you're watching garden State. That's the best reason a
Speaker 1: guest has ever been late. Can I just say this
Speaker 1: is like the coolest thing ever, like speaking to you
Speaker 1: guys after and yeah, like I was watching so garden
Speaker 1: State just then, I was watching, Um, I wish I
Speaker 1: was here like a like last week catching up on
Speaker 1: Scrubs again. It's just being surreal. Sorry, you know you're
Speaker 1: saying it's surreal. It's surreal having you on the show.
Speaker 1: You know, you kind of changed my life. Your your
Speaker 1: your movie changed my life and how I look at
Speaker 1: food and everything. Uh, and so having you having you here.
Speaker 1: What was the pill that Morpheus off? It was the
Speaker 1: red or the blue one? And the rabbit hole gets deeper?
Speaker 1: Which one makes? The red pill makes the rabbit hole
Speaker 1: get deeper? I ate the watching your movie was the
Speaker 1: red pill, and it just made it go deeper and
Speaker 1: deeper and deeper. And and you know now I'm trying
Speaker 1: to figure out ways to stay plant based. Uh. And
Speaker 1: you'll want it out, It'll be yeah. Well I'm in
Speaker 1: the beginning. I'm gonna tell you some Wait let's go back,
Speaker 1: let's go back. We're jumping at you for it. So
Speaker 1: Donald and I both this this documentary, This young man,
Speaker 1: how old are you? I'm twenty seven, started making a
Speaker 1: film when I was twenty two. This twenty two year
Speaker 1: old young filmmaker set out to make his first documentary
Speaker 1: and cut to two thousand and twenty one, and it
Speaker 1: is like the number one film on Netflix for a while,
Speaker 1: and certainly the number one documentary all over the world
Speaker 1: for a long time on Netflix, which is an incredible accomplishment.
Speaker 1: So first and foremost, congratulations. Man. It's I don't think
Speaker 1: I've ever had something that's been seen as widely that.
Speaker 1: The cool thing about Netflix is is that you know
Speaker 1: they have these they they they know. I remember Joey
Speaker 1: Kane was in The Kissing Booths, which was a team
Speaker 1: you know, rom com, and they were able to say, like,
Speaker 1: this is the most watched film on Earth right now,
Speaker 1: and that kind of happened to you. Man. Everyone in
Speaker 1: the world was talking about this film and it had
Speaker 1: a big impact and definitely changed my entire life to
Speaker 1: this moment, and Donald's as well. And I just wanted
Speaker 1: you to say, tell us a little about how it began,
Speaker 1: because a lot of our audience won't have seen it,
Speaker 1: even though we begged them to watch it so we
Speaker 1: could have a discussion about it. But some of them won't.
Speaker 1: They may have heard, Oh, I have people in my
Speaker 1: lifetime like have you seen it? And they go, no,
Speaker 1: I don't want to see it because I love fish.
Speaker 1: I don't want to stop eating fish. And I just
Speaker 1: think that's a funny response because you're like, well, you
Speaker 1: don't have to give ut fish. You don't want to,
Speaker 1: but you should at least see what the man has
Speaker 1: to say. So how did it begin in terms of
Speaker 1: the documentary? Is I remember recall you said I set
Speaker 1: out to make a documentary on plastics in the ocean
Speaker 1: because I thought that was the biggest conundrum. And then
Speaker 1: one of the things I like in documentaries is when
Speaker 1: they start out to be about one thing and then
Speaker 1: the filmmaker takes a right turn because they in their
Speaker 1: research they learned something they never knew. And that feels
Speaker 1: like it happened to you. So so should just take
Speaker 1: us take it from there a little bit? Yes? Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, yeah, so the film did go crazy
Speaker 1: and we weren't expecting yet. It's a documentary about the
Speaker 1: oceans and fish and who would have thought? And I
Speaker 1: did start off to try and explore the ocean in
Speaker 1: a way that continued my naivety of what I always
Speaker 1: believed about the ocean from David Attenborough and other great
Speaker 1: you know documentaries that really helped me fall in love
Speaker 1: with the sea where I live in the UK. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't you don't see dolphins like you in Malibu.
Speaker 1: You know, you don't see him like the great barrier
Speaker 1: reef like you do in in northern northeastern Australia. So
Speaker 1: for me, my my way of exploring the world was
Speaker 1: vicariously through films and and and so I wanted to
Speaker 1: one day be able to explore the seas just like
Speaker 1: they did, just like Jack Cousteau and Sylvia Earl and
Speaker 1: and other great legends of marine exploration. And like most people,
Speaker 1: I always thought that plastics were the main threat. And
Speaker 1: you know, try to eat dolphins safe when you can,
Speaker 1: and that's that's the be all on end and that's
Speaker 1: really all you can do to save the ocean. And
Speaker 1: you know, my view of the seas where everything was
Speaker 1: hunky dorry. And when I was about seventeen, this huge
Speaker 1: whale washed up pretty much on my doorstep here in
Speaker 1: the southeast of England, and that's my That was my
Speaker 1: first glimpse, first of all, was seeing a real whale,
Speaker 1: like right there outside of places like Sea World, which
Speaker 1: is a completely foreign environment for these animals to be
Speaker 1: in when I was a baby, when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: when I saw them um and it kind of sparked
Speaker 1: my curiosity to see it at something might be wrong
Speaker 1: with the sea and the autopsies were showing plastic was
Speaker 1: being ingested by these animals, and that led me down
Speaker 1: the route of exploring that until you know I ended
Speaker 1: up in Japan and then Hong Kong. Before you know it,
Speaker 1: I'm halfway around the world speaking to Thai slaves and
Speaker 1: out at sea with the Liberian Coast Guard looking at
Speaker 1: legal fishing. And so the journey just went from there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: now you went really deep, and there's so much the
Speaker 1: documentary covers. For me, one of the things that you
Speaker 1: talk about a lot of things, and I want to
Speaker 1: just talk about the main bullet points, But one of
Speaker 1: the things I really was troubled by is why aren't
Speaker 1: these NGOs the sort of health companies. I don't know
Speaker 1: what you call them. I guess they're called ngeos. Boun't
Speaker 1: even know what the fuck that means. But why do
Speaker 1: they avoid speaking about not easy fish? Yeah? Why why
Speaker 1: do they avoid the subject? It seems in your documentary
Speaker 1: it's a bit of a conspiracy that they're they're getting
Speaker 1: money from from fish organizations and from animal agriculture in
Speaker 1: the case of land animals. But what is that? Because
Speaker 1: to me, that was the most befuddling thing One of
Speaker 1: the most befuddling things in your documentary what In order
Speaker 1: to answer that, you need to follow the money, and
Speaker 1: sometimes it's it can be impossible to get a solid answer.
Speaker 1: But a lot of the time, the marine conservation, the
Speaker 1: marine sciences, the fishery scientists tend to be paid for
Speaker 1: by the fishing industry, and so there's a little bit
Speaker 1: of a revolving door sometimes between those ocean NGOs and
Speaker 1: those sort of fishing industry you know, regulating bodies or
Speaker 1: whatever it may be that are in charge of like
Speaker 1: managing fish populations, and so their paychecks, you know, might
Speaker 1: not be coming from the fishing industry right now, but
Speaker 1: their next job will, and they've got relationships that they built.
Speaker 1: And sometimes, you know, if you're speaking out about the
Speaker 1: leading threat of the oceans, you want to try and
Speaker 1: avoid the big one, which is the fishing industry, which
Speaker 1: is paying us all that money if you're working there.
Speaker 1: And so we'd rather talk about plastic straws, you know,
Speaker 1: or harry on this myth of sustainable fishing, even though
Speaker 1: we're living in a state where the oceans have never
Speaker 1: been more depleted, and yet when you walk into assume
Speaker 1: market pretty much anywhere you are in the world, all
Speaker 1: the fish is saying that sustainable. Now, how can those
Speaker 1: two realities be simultaneously in existence. It's a paradox, right,
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense, and it's You could equate it
Speaker 1: to the Amazon Rainforest. If you said that, hey, ninety
Speaker 1: percent of the wildlife in the Amazon Rainforest has gone,
Speaker 1: what should we do? You wouldn't say, let's sustainably kill
Speaker 1: the last ten percent. And yet that's what we're doing
Speaker 1: for the oceans, And unfortunately, there's a lot of internal
Speaker 1: corruption and the funding is often coming from the fishing
Speaker 1: industry to those very organizations that are in charge of
Speaker 1: stewarding the ocean and taking care of the ocean. It says, yeah,
Speaker 1: for me, it's unexcitable and it felt like a betrayal
Speaker 1: when I found that out. You caught a lot of
Speaker 1: people with their jaw dropped. I thought, like a lot
Speaker 1: of you found yourself in a lot of awkward interviews,
Speaker 1: which are great if you like documentaries. I love a
Speaker 1: good solid, awkward, cringey documents, a cringey interview, But you
Speaker 1: found yourself in a lot of places with people that
Speaker 1: seemed to not know you were going there with your questions.
Speaker 1: Did you find that to be the case? Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I think because of the way we did the film.
Speaker 1: You know, it was just so lucy. It was just
Speaker 1: Lucy and I that were doing the filming, and we
Speaker 1: were the ones that were, you know, traveling around the
Speaker 1: world as well. But we have these small, tiny cameras,
Speaker 1: you know, we're shooting on tiny little handy you know,
Speaker 1: sort of DSLR type cameras, and I don't think the
Speaker 1: people that were interviewing took us very seriously, and I
Speaker 1: think that let their guard down in a big way
Speaker 1: and it actually helped to open up the interviews. So,
Speaker 1: whether that be speaking to some of the people in
Speaker 1: these in these ocean organizations or to the European Commissioner
Speaker 1: of Fisheries in the Environment for Europe and the European
Speaker 1: Union government. Somehow we snuck in and and asked those honestly,
Speaker 1: very straightforward questions. We weren't trying to do a gotcha thing,
Speaker 1: we weren't trying to be confrontation or aggressive, very very
Speaker 1: simple questions and it was amazing to see the lengths
Speaker 1: that some of them would go to to you know
Speaker 1: avoid you know, kind of like speaking to politicians you know,
Speaker 1: there's always a way to weave around it, and so
Speaker 1: you know, yes, we persisted a little bit and just
Speaker 1: kept on bringing it back, and that's that's when it
Speaker 1: really came across that they didn't want to talk about
Speaker 1: something or they really didn't know what they were talking about,
Speaker 1: and that's what sort of led to it. Let's take
Speaker 1: a break. We'll be right back after these fine words.
Speaker 1: Did you ever feel like your life was in danger? Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is a question. This question comes up a lot,
Speaker 1: and I think I was thinking, by the way, before
Speaker 1: you answer it, I just want to say Donald, I
Speaker 1: had that exact thought when I was thinking today, we're
Speaker 1: knowing you, we're going to see you, I was thinking, like,
Speaker 1: what do I want to ask him? Obviously I don't
Speaker 1: want to try and ask him some questions that he
Speaker 1: hasn't been asked, because I know you've been doing You've
Speaker 1: had a ton of interviews and pressed after this. But
Speaker 1: that kept coming up in my mind too, because not
Speaker 1: only do you seem like you could be in danger
Speaker 1: a few times in documentary, but this had such a
Speaker 1: big impact and these are such big players. I sort
Speaker 1: of made a sort of off hand joked to you
Speaker 1: when we were when we were texting each other like
Speaker 1: are you are you safe? So yeah, I agree with
Speaker 1: Donald's question. Do you ever feel at the time when
Speaker 1: you're making it end now that you're that you're in
Speaker 1: any danger? Well, hindsight is twenty twenty, and I think
Speaker 1: a lot of the time, it wasn't until we'd left
Speaker 1: a scenario or a country that we looked back and
Speaker 1: looked to our footage and and kind of wondered whether
Speaker 1: what we were doing was actually quite safe. And and
Speaker 1: that's when we realized the danger of it. So sometimes
Speaker 1: when you're in the moment um, I guess you guys,
Speaker 1: you know, when you're when you're on the set, you're filming,
Speaker 1: you're just worried. You're just concerned about telling the story,
Speaker 1: exploring the subject, and getting the footage. And it's only
Speaker 1: when you think back you realize the danger you put
Speaker 1: yourself into get those shots. Yeah, but we're not. We're
Speaker 1: not pissing off billion dollars industries that would that would
Speaker 1: love that would love you to quote go away. Yeah, true, true. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So there's there's some countries I've been told I appreciate
Speaker 1: be going back to um. You know what, Look, we
Speaker 1: were dealing with some pretty serious issues in from from
Speaker 1: a very very large global industry with a lot of
Speaker 1: connections to government and lobbying power. When we're in Thailand,
Speaker 1: for example, we were we were trying to uncover the
Speaker 1: human rights violations that are happening there, the slavery, the
Speaker 1: force labor, and you know, for us when we were
Speaker 1: going there, kind of sounds self for grandizing to think that, hey,
Speaker 1: we were the ones that were that were in danger,
Speaker 1: when really, like we we were trying to tell the
Speaker 1: stories of people whose lives were actually in danger for
Speaker 1: decades or years at sea, not being able to return home,
Speaker 1: being being thrown with boiling water, porn all over them,
Speaker 1: threatened with iron bars, guns thrown overboard. We were trying,
Speaker 1: we were making sure it was trying to be about them,
Speaker 1: but simultaneously, you know, when you're in that scenario, um,
Speaker 1: you know, our translator was basically saying in the car
Speaker 1: when we were trying to film him, Hey, don't feel
Speaker 1: my face because I could be hunted down for helping you.
Speaker 1: And that's that's that's when it suddenly became real for us.
Speaker 1: And that was on the way to do those interviews
Speaker 1: in it and it kind of We went there with
Speaker 1: the intention, I think, to have like a two or
Speaker 1: three week trip to try and capture everything, and it
Speaker 1: ended up being like just a couple of days because
Speaker 1: we had to just cool everything off and just come
Speaker 1: back home m because of the risks. So what about
Speaker 1: post your success, because you know, I feel like, also
Speaker 1: this blew up so big that you know, everyone in
Speaker 1: the in the world weighed in on your documentary and
Speaker 1: we can talk about some of the some of the
Speaker 1: criticism of it, because anytime anything gets huge, people have
Speaker 1: a lot to say. But that's just in a normal
Speaker 1: documentary or a film, like making a big proclamation about
Speaker 1: a very, very wealthy industry. And I just wondered if
Speaker 1: again you ever you felt since the success that you
Speaker 1: that you've been in danger. Yeah. I do feel like
Speaker 1: both myself and Lucy are in danger perhaps in the
Speaker 1: near future when we go out and start filming again
Speaker 1: in some of these locations, because now we're well known.
Speaker 1: You gotta do like bot right, they got your pick
Speaker 1: I'm sure they got both of yours picks up. Like
Speaker 1: did you ever see Romance in the Stone when Danny
Speaker 1: DeVito is into at the precinct in like Colombia and
Speaker 1: his pictures up on the wall. Her you need you
Speaker 1: need to hire a fucking bow rats makeup guy, bro
Speaker 1: and just go. I know, maybe I should go. My
Speaker 1: dad looks a bit like borat his Iranian I should
Speaker 1: probably like just start dressing up like him because everybody
Speaker 1: knows your face now. Yeah, so so yeah, that's a good,
Speaker 1: good idea. Maybe maybe my next film will be inspired
Speaker 1: by Sasha Baron Cohen. Listen. One of the biggest things
Speaker 1: for me, I saw Blackfish, and I loved When I
Speaker 1: was a kid, going to Sea Roll was so exciting.
Speaker 1: I loved Sea Roll. We had a Scrubs episode with
Speaker 1: Sea World in it, you know, we we didn't know.
Speaker 1: I was in someplace in Mexico where you can swim
Speaker 1: with dolphins. I love dolphins. I thought it was the
Speaker 1: coolest thing ever. I just didn't know. And then I
Speaker 1: saw Blackfish and it was one hundred and eighty degrees
Speaker 1: epiphany for me. Like I had no idea Fox Sea
Speaker 1: World keeping these giant creatures in a in basically a
Speaker 1: performance enforced performance mode in tiny tanks. I felt like this,
Speaker 1: and I think Donald did too, that this was that
Speaker 1: way about eating fish and I had already given up
Speaker 1: eating eating animals land animals for the most part, because
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you know what, I don't want
Speaker 1: to be a part of this anymore for all the
Speaker 1: obvious reasons. And at least I'll have fish. I like fish.
Speaker 1: And then I watched your documentary and I'm like, this, mofo,
Speaker 1: Now I can't eat fish. And really, one of the
Speaker 1: most one of the things that really got me was
Speaker 1: this whole thing a byecatch, because I didn't realize I
Speaker 1: had no idea, like the blackfish story. I had no
Speaker 1: idea they were keeping orcas in a minuscule tank and
Speaker 1: that they were depressed and they were pulling their babies
Speaker 1: away from of them. And now you say, I'm just
Speaker 1: reading here through over three hundred thousand whales and dolphins
Speaker 1: are killed every year correct as a result of bycatch.
Speaker 1: That is to say, these giant fishing trawlers are pulling
Speaker 1: enormous the biggest nets you can imagine, and in doing so,
Speaker 1: whilst getting the fish that they want to sell, they're
Speaker 1: taking up approximately three hundred thousand whales and dolphins. Additionally,
Speaker 1: a thousand sea turtles are caused by plastics. Sorry so
Speaker 1: so what going go into the numbers and then and then,
Speaker 1: And this was a real big thing for me because
Speaker 1: I just assumed naively, like everyone does. Something says dolphins safe,
Speaker 1: and you're like, okay, cool, I can eat that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So so one of the best estimates that has been
Speaker 1: around for a while is that three hundred thousand dolphins, whales,
Speaker 1: and pulpouses are killed in fishing gear every year. Now,
Speaker 1: I spoke to another person from the UK who believes
Speaker 1: that just in Europe it could be in the region
Speaker 1: of a million commando dolphins are killed in fishing year.
Speaker 1: We just don't know. It could be. I mean, we
Speaker 1: could come out with another documentary another few years and
Speaker 1: it could be like, you know, three million a year.
Speaker 1: The point is, we just don't know. Because it's so
Speaker 1: far out sea, there's no interest, there's no there's no
Speaker 1: there's no incentive for a fisherman to report the dolphins
Speaker 1: that he's killed. He's only going to get punished for it.
Speaker 1: And so it continues to happen. And in fact, many
Speaker 1: of the dolphins and whales that wash up on our
Speaker 1: coasts are actually the dead dolphins that died in those
Speaker 1: nets that have been discarded and for every one that
Speaker 1: washes up, there's about another ten that sink at sea,
Speaker 1: and so we never get a true picture of what
Speaker 1: actually happens when it comes to turtles. A global study
Speaker 1: estimated a you know, conservative number, but about a thousand
Speaker 1: turtles die from from plastic consumption. Now when you compare
Speaker 1: that to the impact of fishing by catch. In the film,
Speaker 1: we mentioned a fact that's two hundred and fifty thousand
Speaker 1: sea tutles die every year, just US fisheries. Now, since then,
Speaker 1: since the film's come out, the group behind that that
Speaker 1: number actually said, hey, we made a mistake. It was
Speaker 1: just it wasn't US numbers, it was it was global.
Speaker 1: We'd a little bit more digging and found it a
Speaker 1: more recent number and found it it's actually more in
Speaker 1: the region of five hundred thousand sea titles every year
Speaker 1: killed in fishing gear. So this is by far the
Speaker 1: biggest threat. It's not see you know that that video
Speaker 1: that went viral years ago, that plastic straw up the
Speaker 1: nose of its title, And now, look, plastic consumed. Plastic
Speaker 1: is important that we tackle. I'm not I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to share on it or anything, but we need to
Speaker 1: start addressing the big picture, It's like, if we had
Speaker 1: a ship that was sinking and we've got a massive
Speaker 1: hole at the bottom called the fishing industry and bikecatch,
Speaker 1: we should be clogging that one up before we use
Speaker 1: teaspoons to flick water out the other side of the boat.
Speaker 1: And that's what really like plastic straws is to me.
Speaker 1: So so yes, it's a huge impact on wildlife. That's
Speaker 1: that's the reason why they're going becoming threatened in our
Speaker 1: seas well. At the end of the at the end
Speaker 1: of the documentary, you were saying, like, if we just
Speaker 1: gave the ocean ten years, it would it would regenerate
Speaker 1: itself and stuff like that. How is there such thing like?
Speaker 1: And also there were the people that were in these
Speaker 1: boats that were in pretty much canoes kayaks in the
Speaker 1: middle of the ocean, in the middle of the ocean,
Speaker 1: fishing near these uh near these other giant boats because
Speaker 1: they were hungry fishermen trying to feed well because those
Speaker 1: crews have come in and taken all the fish, and
Speaker 1: those those those guys who were who need fish to
Speaker 1: live were like, can we have some of your fish please?
Speaker 1: How do we get back to that? Though? Like it
Speaker 1: says ten years. How is there a way to stop
Speaker 1: commercial fishing to where there's not hundreds and hundreds and
Speaker 1: hundreds and thousands of boats out there just raking the sea,
Speaker 1: uh and and and and killing it. Can we how
Speaker 1: do we get back to that? Because the solution can't
Speaker 1: be just stop eating fish, because not everybody's gonna do that, right,
Speaker 1: not only everyone can, I mean Ali, one of the
Speaker 1: criticisms you got was like, hey, this is this is
Speaker 1: not a luxury some people can try to do giving
Speaker 1: up fish. This is their only source of food in
Speaker 1: some parts of the world. Right. Isn't that correct that
Speaker 1: you got that critique? Yes, so there's there's a few
Speaker 1: questions there. So so sorry, We're sorry, We're so we're
Speaker 1: so excited to have you. We have or like just
Speaker 1: like firing questions at you. But we are very interesting.
Speaker 1: I love it, no, absolutely, as in my passion. I'm
Speaker 1: happy too. So so when it comes to what we can,
Speaker 1: like do ocean ecosystems bounce back, they absolutely do. You
Speaker 1: just gotta give them time. You just got to leave
Speaker 1: them alone. Essentially, the best thing we can do is
Speaker 1: really just leave the oceans alone. And when it comes
Speaker 1: to the ten year mark. We've got a petition that
Speaker 1: says that we want to try and um put it,
Speaker 1: protect thirty percent of our oceans from industrial fishing by
Speaker 1: the year twenty thirty. And that's going to create a
Speaker 1: huge buffer for marine life to come back. And and
Speaker 1: so when it comes to those those people around the
Speaker 1: world who are dependent on fish, who truly do rely
Speaker 1: on fish for sustenance, the biggest threat to those communities,
Speaker 1: whether they be in Africa or in Southeast Asia or
Speaker 1: wherever they are, usually the biggest threat to them actually
Speaker 1: putting food on their on their dinner tables is the
Speaker 1: industrial fishing fleets that usually coming from Europe or Asia
Speaker 1: and basically stealing all the fish. Now taken to an
Speaker 1: it's extreme that that's what happened in Somalia which led
Speaker 1: to the Somalia piracy issue. Now there were other political issues,
Speaker 1: the issues that were happening at the same time, but
Speaker 1: the illegal fishing which was really sort of like the
Speaker 1: catalyst which which brought about the Somalian piracy. They were
Speaker 1: all fishermen before they resorted to commandering boats with old
Speaker 1: AK forty sevens. And one one fact that often gets
Speaker 1: misquoted as a as a way to critique. To critique
Speaker 1: the film is a number that came out. I think
Speaker 1: it might be in the FAO that said three billion
Speaker 1: people worldwide rely on fish too as their for nutrition.
Speaker 1: Now that's not what the actual quote said. It said
Speaker 1: that three billion people get a portion of their animal
Speaker 1: protein from fish. I think it's usually around the twenty
Speaker 1: percent mark. Now that's your that's your your animal protein
Speaker 1: or your overall protein. Now, for example, in India, where
Speaker 1: the animal protein consumption is low, let's say it's some
Speaker 1: dairy or some fish, you could say that fish comprises
Speaker 1: maybe eighty percent of their animal protein. That's misleading. It
Speaker 1: makes me think that they entirely rely on it to
Speaker 1: feed themselves. It's a little bit more complicated than that now,
Speaker 1: but people do rely on it. But for the vast
Speaker 1: majority of people, you're going to be fine if you
Speaker 1: don't eat If you don't eat fish, and shifting to
Speaker 1: plant based options are often cheaper, especially in Europe. I mean,
Speaker 1: fish is pretty much a luxury creating, like a salmon
Speaker 1: or you know, lots of different species of fish. They
Speaker 1: tend to be a luxury item. It's not something that's
Speaker 1: you're absolutely depending on and how do we stop these
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands or millions of fishing vessels at sea.
Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty six or seven, there was a global
Speaker 1: moratorium on industrial whaling. What happened was in the years
Speaker 1: leading up to it, it was like the birth of
Speaker 1: the environmental movement. People were going out to see with
Speaker 1: cameras and documenting the industrial whaling and how bad it was.
Speaker 1: That put pressure from governments to change, from people rising
Speaker 1: up and saying, hey, we need we recognize whaling has
Speaker 1: played an important part in our culture, in an economy
Speaker 1: for hundreds of years, but now it's times it comes
Speaker 1: to an end. We've we've we've wacked these populations so much.
Speaker 1: We can do an international moratorium on industrial fishing, all
Speaker 1: heavy gear fishing technology. We can do that in the
Speaker 1: next few years. If this film continues to rise up
Speaker 1: that pressure. There's no difference really. I mean sure, fishing
Speaker 1: industry is huge today, but the whaling industry used to
Speaker 1: be huge. It's one of the first international trades was
Speaker 1: the whaling industry. Is what lit our homes with whale
Speaker 1: oil and stuff like that. So we need government pressure
Speaker 1: as well as like grassroes up in personal Actually, yeah,
Speaker 1: do you think that. I mean, that would be the best,
Speaker 1: greatest outcome that could come out of the difference you've made,
Speaker 1: is you know, it's one thing that I am sure
Speaker 1: Donald and I are not the only ones who made
Speaker 1: such an impact on it. It It goes without saying, because
Speaker 1: it's become such a huge success. What do people let
Speaker 1: you fire it up? Like me? What can we do?
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we can sign your petition, so one
Speaker 1: of them, you're right, is the petition, you know, And
Speaker 1: so far we've had six hundred and fifty thousand signatures
Speaker 1: on our petition in the last month or two, which
Speaker 1: is huge, and we're going to be taking those signatures
Speaker 1: to the G seven summit next month. I think Joe
Speaker 1: Biden's coming down as well as other leaders from around
Speaker 1: the world. We're going to present them to those leaders
Speaker 1: to show that people will have desperate to be heard
Speaker 1: on this issue. We want protection of our seas, and
Speaker 1: Joe Biden came out and said that he's going to
Speaker 1: try and he's pledging to conserve thirty percent of the
Speaker 1: US land and seas by the year twenty thirty, which
Speaker 1: sounds great. However, when you've look into the fine print
Speaker 1: of the pledge, you realized actually twenty six percent of
Speaker 1: the US waters are already part of a marine protected zone,
Speaker 1: so this would only mean a four percent increase over
Speaker 1: the next ten years. And the problem with marine protected
Speaker 1: zones is they don't actually mean anything unless you have
Speaker 1: a no take zone, it doesn't mean anything. It's like
Speaker 1: having turning the Amazon rainforest into a protected area but
Speaker 1: still allowing logging and forest fires. It's literally like that.
Speaker 1: So we need to put pressure on governments to create
Speaker 1: no take zones. It's the only thing that matters when
Speaker 1: it comes to protecting the sea. And when it comes
Speaker 1: to the support we've had from Asia. I'm getting messages
Speaker 1: every day from people from who grew up in fishing
Speaker 1: villages in rural Japan how eating fish was was, you know,
Speaker 1: just part of their upbringing. Dates every day and now
Speaker 1: they're not, and now they're they're actually they never realized
Speaker 1: the impact fishing was having on the oceans. And the
Speaker 1: support from Asia has been huge. It's it's been incredible
Speaker 1: to hear those stories that one town with the with
Speaker 1: the with the whale massacres that was also featured in
Speaker 1: The Cove, that documentary The Cove, which is another documentary.
Speaker 1: If you're as interested in this as Donald and I are,
Speaker 1: I recommend watching The cove Um. But um, like, oh gosh,
Speaker 1: that's one of the places where I really thought you
Speaker 1: were going to get killed when you were filming those guys.
Speaker 1: And I wonder, like, Okay, I'm sorry for being so
Speaker 1: naive on this, but surely there's Japanese people that must
Speaker 1: be so livid about this too, right, I mean, we
Speaker 1: don't have any power over Japan, but the Japanese people,
Speaker 1: and doll, how is this still so popular there? This
Speaker 1: this brutal whaling that goes on. Well, actually a lot
Speaker 1: of people in Japan just don't know what happens. It's
Speaker 1: as simple as that the government don't publicize it. And
Speaker 1: the thing is that there's a lot of there's cultural differences,
Speaker 1: and there's political pressure. There's a lot of nationalists in
Speaker 1: that region of Taiji, and they get very defensive when
Speaker 1: a lot of foreign activists, like we would I mean,
Speaker 1: if American if American soil had like always Japanese activists
Speaker 1: saying you couldn't do something, you know, you'd have naturalists
Speaker 1: come up and try to fight them off. And but yeah,
Speaker 1: unfortunately that has distracted from it. But people just often,
Speaker 1: I mean, just like this film is shown like people
Speaker 1: just weren't aware of the problem even within Japan, that
Speaker 1: dolphins and whales being killed in the same way that
Speaker 1: people in France have not been aware that in just
Speaker 1: a small town in the west on the western south
Speaker 1: coast of France, ten thousand dolphins are being killed in
Speaker 1: just a season of sea bass fishing. Right, just people
Speaker 1: are just unaware of this no matter where you are,
Speaker 1: whether you're from the United States, France, Japan, it's all
Speaker 1: the same. Like I feel like if people were just
Speaker 1: to even if you don't give a crap about fish,
Speaker 1: let's say you don't give two ships about fish whatever,
Speaker 1: if they could just understand that if the ocean dies,
Speaker 1: we all die, all of us die, then maybe you know,
Speaker 1: I just I just don't understand. There's so many warning
Speaker 1: signs and so many things that are that are there
Speaker 1: that you know that we should be listening to, and
Speaker 1: we're not. And I don't understand how companies could be like,
Speaker 1: my money is my money. I'm gonna grow all of
Speaker 1: this money i possibly can, and once everybody dies, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna die with mine. It's like I'm gonna die with
Speaker 1: my money. You can't take that ship. You can't take
Speaker 1: it with you. Write that down. Hey the Egyptian, don't
Speaker 1: think think about it. The Egyptians tried to take it
Speaker 1: with them, and what did they do? They got wrong.
Speaker 1: We don't know. That's what they might be in heaven
Speaker 1: with their goats. We don't know. I'm telling you right now,
Speaker 1: tootin common all of these, all of these do you
Speaker 1: make a face, Daniel? What's wrong? They were buried with
Speaker 1: their animals, weren't they? Were they with theirs? They were
Speaker 1: buried with gold and their favorite animals. Am I wrong? Okay?
Speaker 1: Guess guess what's not in their tombs? Their gold? It's gone.
Speaker 1: Let's take a break. We'll be right back after these
Speaker 1: fine words. One of the things I thought was interesting
Speaker 1: when you got critique because you said the oceans will
Speaker 1: be empty by twenty forty eight. There was a big pushback,
Speaker 1: but it seemed to me the tenor of the pushback
Speaker 1: was like, no, they won't, it'll be twenty seventy. There
Speaker 1: was a lot of like, that's your fucking being crazy
Speaker 1: twenty forty eight, and there was like, no, no, it'll be,
Speaker 1: it'll be twenty one hundred or whatever, but it'll still like,
Speaker 1: but everyone agrees that we're on a trajectory to emptying
Speaker 1: the ocean, right, Yeah, it's it's it's it's I mean,
Speaker 1: it's kind of pathetic. It's like it's like arguing about
Speaker 1: like who's going to jump off a cliff bus, Like
Speaker 1: it just doesn't matter. Point point is our oceans are emptying,
Speaker 1: And yeah, you're right. It's like the study that we
Speaker 1: were sighting in the film, and we were careful to
Speaker 1: make sure we sighted it well, was that, according to
Speaker 1: the study, if fishing trends continue the way they have
Speaker 1: been by the twenty forty eight, the oceans we virtually
Speaker 1: empty of fish. Now that doesn't mean there's not going
Speaker 1: to be a single fish left. It just means they've
Speaker 1: got to get to the point where they're so collapsed
Speaker 1: that it's just not there's just not feasible anymore to
Speaker 1: be catching fish. And that study was from two thousand
Speaker 1: and six, and people have said that the that the
Speaker 1: paper was retracted. It never was. It's been cited like
Speaker 1: three thousand, three hundred times or something ridiculous, and the
Speaker 1: original author, I think more recently looked back at the
Speaker 1: fish populations and found that many of the species were
Speaker 1: actually in a worse steak than they than they were
Speaker 1: when he did the original paper, And the United Nations
Speaker 1: put out a report just like last year and said that, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean if if basically by twenty fifty most typical
Speaker 1: fish stocks will be completely collapsed. So it's crazy, I mean,
Speaker 1: And the main point is, who cares whether it's twenty
Speaker 1: fifty eight, twenty sixty eight, twenty seventy eight, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: We're all it's going in the wrong direction. And one
Speaker 1: of the main critics of that paper and of us
Speaker 1: has been a guy called ray Hillborn And according to
Speaker 1: a Green Piece article, I don't know it's for sure,
Speaker 1: but according to a Green Piece article, he was paid
Speaker 1: to like three point five million dollars from the fishing
Speaker 1: industry to do his fishing studies and never disclosed it
Speaker 1: for years until more recently, and basically another another example
Speaker 1: of a fishery scientist getting paid by the industry itself
Speaker 1: to defend it and be an overfishing denier. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that that's crazy to me. That's that's the
Speaker 1: craziest thing ever. Like we know, global warming is happening.
Speaker 1: I mean, I should say climate change is happening. We
Speaker 1: know this is happening, and we know that we are
Speaker 1: part of the reason why this is happening, a big
Speaker 1: part of it. And yet still we're like, I'm still
Speaker 1: gonna burn coal, I'm still gonna burn gas, I'm still
Speaker 1: gonna overfish the sea, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 1: it's like, because I'm trying to get minds and I
Speaker 1: feel like that's what you know. America is great for
Speaker 1: one of those for that reason alone. You have the
Speaker 1: freedom to go out and make it happen for yourself.
Speaker 1: But at some point we got to look at what
Speaker 1: we're doing to each other, and we're not looking out.
Speaker 1: I mean we are, but we're like, I don't give
Speaker 1: a shit. It's fucking hilarious to me, and it's scary. Also,
Speaker 1: it's like, what my kids are gonna have to go
Speaker 1: through when they're my age. If they're by twenty we
Speaker 1: said twenty twenty eight, they'll be like thirty five, thirty
Speaker 1: six years old by that time. Dude. Yeah, well, holy shit.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Like I've got I've
Speaker 1: not since I've got a one year old baby, he
Speaker 1: was born during the pandemic, and it was like post production.
Speaker 1: It was kind of crazy, but I worked out that.
Speaker 1: So I'm twenty seven now I realized that he will
Speaker 1: be twenty seven exactly twenty forty eight. So it's kind
Speaker 1: of brought it home for me as well. Like and often,
Speaker 1: there's something called the economics of extinction, and there's there's
Speaker 1: actually a benefit for those involved in fishing for species
Speaker 1: to become more and more scarce because it drives up
Speaker 1: profit in the same way that things anything that's scarce
Speaker 1: becomes profitable. That's why bluefin tuna is getting upside three
Speaker 1: million dollars for a fish in Japan is because that's
Speaker 1: a rad I want to talk about. We won't keep
Speaker 1: you too much longer. I want to talk about a
Speaker 1: few things in the supermarket that really landed with me.
Speaker 1: By the way, Joelle has just chimed in that, yes,
Speaker 1: they were buried with their animals, including lions, cats, and dogs.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mention aren't lions, aren't lions cats? Yes, But
Speaker 1: I also gets funnier to say goats. So I said goats,
Speaker 1: I pictured a goat with like a golden collar. Well,
Speaker 1: they left the goat's carcass. They just took the golden collars.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think anyone who robbed the sermons
Speaker 1: took the goat bones. Um, maybe you should make a
Speaker 1: documentary about this, Alie. Now, a few things that stood
Speaker 1: out to me in the supermarket that I didn't know
Speaker 1: all right. First of all, salmon is no longer pink.
Speaker 1: That's all die pretty much. Yeah, farm salmon gets given farms,
Speaker 1: so specifically, farm salmon doesn't turn that color. And you
Speaker 1: showed in the documentary a color wheel like you'd see
Speaker 1: for paint chips in your house, and and the particular
Speaker 1: distributor gets to choose how pink they want their fish
Speaker 1: to look. Yeah, I mean if you if you go
Speaker 1: to Whole Foods right now or tomorrow or whatever, like
Speaker 1: you'll see on the back of farm salmon. Even other
Speaker 1: things I think, like shrimp as well, they feed them
Speaker 1: a die in it. They usually have to label what
Speaker 1: they do, and most yeah, farm salmon would probably be
Speaker 1: gray because they're swimming in circles. These are fish that
Speaker 1: are built to like swim up waterfalls forty miles a day,
Speaker 1: and they're just swimming in circles in their own filth,
Speaker 1: and their flesh just literally turns gray. So they have
Speaker 1: to dye the salmon it's color, it's pinkish orange color
Speaker 1: in order for it to be palatable and for them
Speaker 1: to do their marketing adverts for So yeah, you know
Speaker 1: what made me right then and there. That was the
Speaker 1: point where I was like, oh, I'm not eating it.
Speaker 1: When he was like they're swimming around, they'd like these
Speaker 1: things got clamidia. The fish guy, I was like, well,
Speaker 1: you know what, yep, listen. One thing, One thing I
Speaker 1: don't want is chlamydia on my fish um. Now. Another
Speaker 1: thing I don't want to many on anything, but especially
Speaker 1: my fish. Another thing I think it was your doc,
Speaker 1: but I've watched like so many you send me down
Speaker 1: a wormhole of these docks. I've watched like nine hundred
Speaker 1: of them. But I forgot some of the things that
Speaker 1: I forgot if it's you or somebody else, but that
Speaker 1: the fish we're seeing in the tent, in the in
Speaker 1: the on the ice and the supermarket is at least
Speaker 1: a week old. I mean at least a week old.
Speaker 1: I mean when you're when you're talking about the I
Speaker 1: mean think about boat that's like thousand miles at seeing
Speaker 1: you really think it's going to get to you in
Speaker 1: a day. In my mind, up to forty fucking six
Speaker 1: years old, I did. I honestly thought. I especially thought
Speaker 1: if I'm going to a high end market like Whole Foods,
Speaker 1: like look how fresh that is? And then you said that,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, it's a week old. That's not
Speaker 1: what I picked it. I mean, hey, hey, Zach, that's
Speaker 1: that's optimistic. I mean, that's the bluefinchina that's about twenty
Speaker 1: years old in a freezer somewhere right now. Like it's
Speaker 1: literally you're talking about really old fish that died decades ago.
Speaker 1: It's being stopped up. Um, but yeah, weeks months? Uh yeah, man. Okay,
Speaker 1: Now my last question, and it's probably one of the
Speaker 1: bigges ones in the documentary, and we can finish on
Speaker 1: this because I'm sure you have better things to do,
Speaker 1: like go back to watching Garden State. But the thing
Speaker 1: that sort of fooled us all was this idea of
Speaker 1: something being dolphins safe. Um, it's the documentary, if you
Speaker 1: haven't seen it shows that that that's not true. There's
Speaker 1: no way, there's no possible way to police these boats.
Speaker 1: We don't there's no not nearly enough manpower. It all
Speaker 1: happens with sillion miles from shore. Um Zach. They try,
Speaker 1: they try, It's just that some of these people are
Speaker 1: easily bought or quickly killed. So just just touch on
Speaker 1: that real quickly ality, because there's plenty people who are
Speaker 1: listening to this, going, guys, great, that's cool. He sounds cool.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to stop eating fish. I eat dolphins
Speaker 1: safe everything. Well, at least know that that's bullshit, which
Speaker 1: Ali will now tell you why. Yeah, I mean, dolphins
Speaker 1: Safe Tuna is for me, and my opinion is complete bullshit. Basically,
Speaker 1: they can't guarantee that Dolphinsafe Tuna is in fact dolphins safe.
Speaker 1: And I heard it from the horse's mouth. I mean,
Speaker 1: I speared to the guy who basically runs the group,
Speaker 1: and he said, yeah, you can't guarantee it. Who knows
Speaker 1: what happens when these ships are out at sea. You
Speaker 1: could send observers to be on board and make sure
Speaker 1: they're doing everything right, but then they could be bribed.
Speaker 1: So yeah, the label doesn't guarantee anything. And yet we
Speaker 1: wouldn't stand for this when it came to anything else.
Speaker 1: If it was like, hey, your your produce, Hey guess
Speaker 1: what it's. It's maybe organic or maybe not GMO. You know,
Speaker 1: you want one hundred percent guarantee, and yet with Dolphin
Speaker 1: Safe Tuna, there's no guarantee for it. And I believe
Speaker 1: it's fraud and I don't think it's going to be
Speaker 1: you know, staying on supermarket shelves much longer. I think
Speaker 1: a time for it to change his name. The added
Speaker 1: thing was that this label became a thing that the
Speaker 1: companies would license. So it's a bit of a scam, right,
Speaker 1: they're paying, they're paying for something that can't be regular. Well,
Speaker 1: when it comes to the MSc label, which is like
Speaker 1: the gold standard sustainable certifier of the world's fisheries, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they get something like eighty percent or more of their
Speaker 1: income from licensing their logo and seafood products. So there's
Speaker 1: a conflict of interest there. And there are so many
Speaker 1: instances of fishery that they're labeling is sustainable as you know,
Speaker 1: one of the best practices in the world, and you
Speaker 1: look into it and actually they're still wiping out sharks
Speaker 1: and titles and any other you know, swordfish, other other
Speaker 1: kinds of species that are threatened in our seas and
Speaker 1: so as we explore in the film is like these
Speaker 1: these these labels basically have become this huge marketing phrase
Speaker 1: and don't really have any meaning meaning of it at all,
Speaker 1: and it's made us all really gullible. Like the word
Speaker 1: sustainable is something that's made us all extremely gullible. Whenever
Speaker 1: we see in the supermarket, we feel good about it,
Speaker 1: we feel guilt free, and we've we've brought into it.
Speaker 1: But but no, this doesn't have any meanings a similar thing. Again,
Speaker 1: is this your doc or not? Forgive me because I've
Speaker 1: literally watched like ten more you inspired me to go
Speaker 1: down the rabbit hole. But the thing about the recycling
Speaker 1: icon with the number in the middle, no, that wasn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't tell you that. But that's a whole I
Speaker 1: know a little So it reminds me a little bit.
Speaker 1: So the recycling arrow thing icon that we see on
Speaker 1: all plastics, right, So the plastics industry campaigned to have
Speaker 1: that beyond every piece of plastic, which leads the average
Speaker 1: person myself to think, oh, all of this is recyclable.
Speaker 1: That's bullshit. Look inside the numbers. Only numbers one, two,
Speaker 1: and I think five are actually truly recyclable. The industry
Speaker 1: successfully lobbied to have that sort of arrow icon on
Speaker 1: all plastics, leading people like me to think that everything
Speaker 1: I was putting in the recycling is recycling. Well, next
Speaker 1: time you're putting something recycling, look at the number. If
Speaker 1: it's not one, two or five, it's not even recyclable.
Speaker 1: And here's another thing about that. No, and this is
Speaker 1: kind of outside of my expertise, but basically everything is recyclable.
Speaker 1: It's just that there's a cost to recycling it. And
Speaker 1: so recycling warehouses or whatever you'd call it, only gonna
Speaker 1: First of all, they have to sort through it. They
Speaker 1: have to count all those numbers. And what happened. I
Speaker 1: heard a guy in Hong Kong who's involved in this
Speaker 1: plastic issue. He says, there's been all these new plastic
Speaker 1: straws come out that have been made out of like cornstarch. Right,
Speaker 1: they're apparently like degradable or compostible. He says, what the
Speaker 1: thing is when you put that in a regular bin,
Speaker 1: it's not going to compost. And what happens is if
Speaker 1: if the guy at the recycling plant who looks at
Speaker 1: plastical ed a, he can tell you what's what's compostible
Speaker 1: and what's just regular plastic. If he sees some compostible
Speaker 1: ones in the other plastic, he will just throw the
Speaker 1: whole bag to landfill. So it's like the whole plastic
Speaker 1: trash thing is the whole other sort of cattle of fish.
Speaker 1: Excuse the pun, but it needs its own researching as well.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing. We've all been duped by labels everywhere. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I find that I got so mad when I watched
Speaker 1: your documentary, feeling like on so many things, but really
Speaker 1: feeling like we've been duped. We've been duped by being
Speaker 1: told someone's dart, something's dolphin saved. We've been duped by saying, oh,
Speaker 1: this is recyclable, and it all comes from giant entities
Speaker 1: with zillions of darts are getting their way pretty much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And honestly, I think that's why we've seen such levels
Speaker 1: of environmental decline despite the overwhelming rise in awareness of
Speaker 1: these things. You know, we're living in a time where
Speaker 1: most people have never cared more about the environment because
Speaker 1: we've we all have our basic well not we all have,
Speaker 1: but like a lot of us have our basic needs maps,
Speaker 1: so now we can start thinking beyond that. And yet
Speaker 1: we're being constantly duped, and our concern is being redirected
Speaker 1: back into those industries that are actually the destroyers of
Speaker 1: those things that we care about. And that's why I say,
Speaker 1: you know, since since like the last thirty years or
Speaker 1: or more, we've we've we've we've never seen more emphasis
Speaker 1: on sustainable fishing and eco conscious, eco labels and sustainability
Speaker 1: and all those things. And yet in the last thirty
Speaker 1: forty years we've seen the most levels of decline, and
Speaker 1: I believe part of the reason for that is that
Speaker 1: we're all being duped by these genius marketing agencies behind
Speaker 1: these companies. Well, I think you really make an indifference.
Speaker 1: Um you another documentary documentarians are making difference. You certainly
Speaker 1: made a giant and I just think you're an inspiration man.
Speaker 1: You're you were twenty two when you started this and
Speaker 1: you're twenty seven now. I mean, listen, if you're listening
Speaker 1: to this, look how what a difference you can make
Speaker 1: if you put your mind to something. I mean, I
Speaker 1: just think you're there's so many people want to make
Speaker 1: a difference in the world, and you really are doing that.
Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you.
Speaker 1: It's just the fact that you didn't you took you
Speaker 1: took a camera, a small little camera, you and your
Speaker 1: You and your wife. She's your wife, right, yeah. So
Speaker 1: we started off just as friends and by the end
Speaker 1: of it we you know, I propose now we have
Speaker 1: a kid love story. Telling you right now in your
Speaker 1: face will do that shit a gun in your face,
Speaker 1: will do that shit out of nowhere. Baby, you know
Speaker 1: what I was together, You can We have gone through
Speaker 1: some stuff, that's true, right, I can't. I can't imagine
Speaker 1: being with anyone else. Right, Well, let's make a baby exactly.
Speaker 1: She's in the other room right now. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know what when people are listening to this, but
Speaker 1: it's it's late here in the UK, and she would
Speaker 1: have loved to be on and I think it's funny things.
Speaker 1: I think you should tell her when she wakes up
Speaker 1: that we were very offended that she slept through the interview.
Speaker 1: We will wrap it up, but tell everyone where they
Speaker 1: go if they want to sign your petition. So I
Speaker 1: think the best place to direct people is either our
Speaker 1: website C spiracy or our social media on Instagram. Is
Speaker 1: the best place is at c spiracy and all the
Speaker 1: links are there. To our petition. It's you know, we'd
Speaker 1: love to get this to a million signatures. I think
Speaker 1: that'd be incredible to be able to like hand that
Speaker 1: off to these worldly there's hey, look, they go one
Speaker 1: million boom and we're currently just three hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: thousand off of that. So we just really want to
Speaker 1: like just get that extra mind. Everybody, go sign links,
Speaker 1: go sign a petition, and listen. We are not prositizing.
Speaker 1: I'm brand new to this topic. Don't think I'm I'm
Speaker 1: on high and mighty telling you to stop eating fish.
Speaker 1: But I do think you should watch this documentary at
Speaker 1: the very least because you know there will be I
Speaker 1: guarantee you there will be things in this documentary that
Speaker 1: you didn't know that open your eyes to what you're
Speaker 1: putting in your you and your family's uh stomachs, right Donald, Yeah,
Speaker 1: your yeah, I agree. Listen, we'd know that we can't
Speaker 1: convince people to do something that they don't want to do,
Speaker 1: but at least go out and get some information before
Speaker 1: you say, before you say that's not for me or
Speaker 1: that's for me, don't don't take dick right, You know
Speaker 1: that too? He yeah, well, and I agree, I agree absolutely,
Speaker 1: because that's that's the whole place that I came from
Speaker 1: when making this film, is a place of curiosity and
Speaker 1: just love for the ocean. And you know, any any
Speaker 1: move that people can do in their daily lives in
Speaker 1: that direction of moving towards that plant based diet and
Speaker 1: avoiding that that the consumption of marine life, that wildlife
Speaker 1: that's in the ocean, that's gonna be a great thing. Um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, if you're like is where I came from,
Speaker 1: And if you're like me and you are fascinated by
Speaker 1: this and want to go down the wormhole. Some others
Speaker 1: I liked were game changers, Um, what the health? Um? Conspiracy?
Speaker 1: By the way, Oh, one of the biggest questions I
Speaker 1: buried the lead. One of the biggest questions I get
Speaker 1: is how could he not have spelled it conspiracy? Sea? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm so glad, Yeah, because I was like, I was like,
Speaker 1: everyone was like there was something like on on on,
Speaker 1: you know, you became so popular. There was like this
Speaker 1: meme that was like fifty percent of people that watched
Speaker 1: the movie go I'm never eating fish again. Fifty percent
Speaker 1: of people going, how could he not have called it conspiracy?
Speaker 1: I know, it was like it went so viral. That mean,
Speaker 1: it was so viral that we were so happy about
Speaker 1: it because it gave comedians the opportunity to talk about
Speaker 1: the film to like millions of followers, and it just
Speaker 1: it was honestly, it was an an accidental marketing pr
Speaker 1: genius thing that happened, and I was so glad about it.
Speaker 1: But see, like the conspiracy thing, so c Spiracy kind
Speaker 1: of follows on with from from cal Spiracy. The executive
Speaker 1: producer is Kip Anderson, who produced cal Spiracy with with
Speaker 1: Keithan Koon And so this is kind of like following
Speaker 1: that vein of film um and the reason why not conspiracy?
Speaker 1: We'd be forever trying to spell conspiracy. Imagine why the mouth?
Speaker 1: Hey have you seen conspiracy? Conspiracy? No conspiracy? Sea? Oh
Speaker 1: why didn't they just call it c spire? I can't
Speaker 1: tell you because I promoted you so much because I'm
Speaker 1: like your publicist. How many people were like, it was
Speaker 1: right there? How how did he miss it? People are
Speaker 1: like disappointed, like he's such a talented filmmaker, how could
Speaker 1: he have missed it? It was right there? No, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I hate to sat but like
Speaker 1: we genuinely did. We thought about the title years ago,
Speaker 1: and we just love that c Spiracy was the own thing.
Speaker 1: And um, well, you're a very gift You're a very
Speaker 1: gifted filmmaker. And I hope that we get to watch
Speaker 1: many of your films. I'm sure, um you're gonna do.
Speaker 1: I think you said in our in our chat that
Speaker 1: you're going to also make narrative films as well as documentaries.
Speaker 1: Donald and I are of both of it for hire. Um,
Speaker 1: if you need. I'm a decent actor, He's a very
Speaker 1: good he can do draw Well, guys, let's let's let's
Speaker 1: talk then it'd be it'd be great. I think we'll
Speaker 1: be coming out to the States hopefully this year. Um,
Speaker 1: as soon as you know COVID permitting and everything. It'd
Speaker 1: be great to meet up. Um. But yeah, I'd like
Speaker 1: to explore narrative films. I got some other documentaries up
Speaker 1: up my sleeve which are equally explosive and revealing stories.
Speaker 1: Just be careful for anything on aliens, anything on what
Speaker 1: about area fifty one? Can you do that now? I
Speaker 1: mean I can, I can try if if you if
Speaker 1: if pretty pleased, and maybe I'll didn't know. There are
Speaker 1: so many way right nowsposing people we want to know
Speaker 1: about area fifty one and Nail. You know, it's so
Speaker 1: funny during fifty one there every dude, it's crazy. The
Speaker 1: aliens came out as like a total real thing during
Speaker 1: COVID and everyone was so busy they were like not
Speaker 1: now aliens and no one's talking about it. Did you
Speaker 1: see the fucking video of the fighter pilot being like
Speaker 1: seeing that that space cruiser or whatever it was, and
Speaker 1: he was like, holy shit, lookna go, there's like a genius,
Speaker 1: like level badass fighter jet pilot with this UFOs sighting
Speaker 1: and no one's even talking about it because everyone's too
Speaker 1: out the one what about the guys that were on
Speaker 1: the battleship and the things hovering over the thing and
Speaker 1: then dips back into the water and stuff like the
Speaker 1: government coming came out and said yeah, yeah, yeah, there's
Speaker 1: UFOs and everyone's like not now, UFOs were busy. I
Speaker 1: can't believe it. I know humanity has been waiting like
Speaker 1: like thousands of years for this moment for the Yeah, dude,
Speaker 1: that's why we need you for drop whatever you're doing.
Speaker 1: We need you to make a UFO. Do we need
Speaker 1: to do a UFO doc makeily sitting down with like
Speaker 1: an alien being. Now listen, this is an uncomfortable, cringing interview,
Speaker 1: like but why are you here? Yeah, they're like to
Speaker 1: get your finish, to get what's left of your fish.
Speaker 1: Oh okayspiracy, Oh my god, ali inspiracy. There listen, no
Speaker 1: one is making this documentary. It's been proven that there's UFOs,
Speaker 1: and we need you to do a sit down with
Speaker 1: the aliens because all right, we'll let you go. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much, dude, You're so awesome. Thank you for
Speaker 1: being a fake doctor's real friends. Thank you, thank you,
Speaker 1: You're amazing, and we'll be back next time with Don't
Speaker 1: worry those of you who are mad we didn't do
Speaker 1: anything on Scrubs. We'll be back next week with a
Speaker 1: full Scrubs episode. What episode You're well? Four twenty one,
Speaker 1: four twenty one, We'll be back and we'll be doing
Speaker 1: that one next Tuesday. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1: We love you all. Donald count us out six seven
Speaker 1: eight stories about show we made about a bunch of
Speaker 1: doctor nurses and stories never so yeada around here, a
Speaker 1: yeata around here m hm.