Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're
Speaker 1: listening to Software up Radio Special Operations, military news and
Speaker 1: straight talk with the guys and the community. Hello, good everyone,
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Software up Radio softw UP Radio on
Speaker 1: time on Target. I'm your host today Steve Vlastralia joining us.
Speaker 1: We have a very special guest. John Hancock was a
Speaker 1: member second Italian fourth Marines fought in Iraca during the
Speaker 1: Battle of Madi. I believe it is two thousand four.
Speaker 1: John Um his unit suffered probably the highest casualty rate
Speaker 1: of anyone during the Iraq War. I believe it was
Speaker 1: one out of every four members of his unit was
Speaker 1: a casualty, either wounded or killed in action. And with
Speaker 1: a lot of other people, John suffered from PTSD and
Speaker 1: he found um some solace and some some closure, A
Speaker 1: little bit were not closure, but some some help with
Speaker 1: that by walking across the United States and visiting members
Speaker 1: of the unit, visiting members of the gold Star families.
Speaker 1: It is an incredible story and we're gonna welcome him
Speaker 1: to the podcast and UH we'll talk to him about that. John,
Speaker 1: thank you for taking the time with us this morning.
Speaker 1: And this is uh a big pleasure for us. Thanks see,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for me. Brother. Really it's I read
Speaker 1: and subscribe and watch all the softwap stuff. So, uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's really kind of humbling to be here, to
Speaker 1: be on it. Well, we're humbled because when after I
Speaker 1: read your story and I remember seeing something on CNN
Speaker 1: about it, and um, it's it's amazing because you covered
Speaker 1: about nine thousand kilometers, which turns out which I did.
Speaker 1: I can't do the math, so I had to ask
Speaker 1: you offline about it. Five thousand, eight hundred and seven miles. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. It was a really long one. So it
Speaker 1: ended up starting September eleven at one fifteen in the morning.
Speaker 1: I ended December twelve. Uh, so that that roughly rounds
Speaker 1: out to about one year three months. In a day
Speaker 1: of walking, what was that, averaging about miles a day? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did about you know, on the low end, I
Speaker 1: do about twenty eight. On the high end, I do
Speaker 1: about thirty two. One day, I did forty five miles
Speaker 1: and I'll never do that ever again. I used to
Speaker 1: think I was a rucking fool when I was in SF. Uh.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you John the nope. Uh, I get
Speaker 1: my hats off to you, bro, because that is that's
Speaker 1: a lot of rocking there, and I'm assuming you know
Speaker 1: everything's carrying on your back. So what a way about pounds? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, if you're in the high desert and there's
Speaker 1: you know, water is a little bit more scarce, I'd
Speaker 1: hum in right around eight two pounds because I got
Speaker 1: to carry more water. And then you know, in some
Speaker 1: of the more populated areas, I could I could dial
Speaker 1: that down to about sixty nine seventy one pounds. Oh
Speaker 1: that's a heavy ruck to be carrying almost six thousand. Well,
Speaker 1: but you know, here's a little tidbit for you too.
Speaker 1: So if you end up walking five thousand, eight hundred
Speaker 1: seven miles over the course of one year, three months
Speaker 1: in a day with seventy pounds on your back. I
Speaker 1: started this walk at six foot I am now coming
Speaker 1: in at five ft ten inches. Wow. Well that's why
Speaker 1: most vets, like ourselves have bad backs and bad knees
Speaker 1: when when when they get out and uh, but you
Speaker 1: continued that. So but we'll get into all that. We'll
Speaker 1: get into all that. Just fill in our listeners and
Speaker 1: our readers on software a little bit, a bit about
Speaker 1: your background. Where'd you grow up and how did you
Speaker 1: end up in the Marine Corps. Yeah? So I was
Speaker 1: a Navy brat, right, and I was born in Hawaii
Speaker 1: and Honolulu moved all over the world. My dad was
Speaker 1: a submarine commander, right, so twenty five years in the
Speaker 1: Submarine Force and uh so, I, you know, living on
Speaker 1: bases all over the place and understanding I wanted to
Speaker 1: be in the military from a very young age. I
Speaker 1: think I saw a marine in a commissary one day,
Speaker 1: just larger than life. I mean, this dude was the
Speaker 1: mountain of a man. And I turned around and I
Speaker 1: looked at him, and I look at Dad and I'm like, hey,
Speaker 1: who is that? And he goes, that's a uh that's
Speaker 1: a force reconnaissance marine. They're the most badass things on
Speaker 1: the planet. And I was like, well, that's what I
Speaker 1: want to be then, and then from that that day forward,
Speaker 1: I just always wanted to be a marine. And so,
Speaker 1: you know, going into high school, all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: the marine recruiters are in the cafeteria in high school.
Speaker 1: I walk up to him. I think I'm in ninth grade.
Speaker 1: First day at ninth grade, and I'm like, all right,
Speaker 1: so I want to join today and they're like, all right,
Speaker 1: slow down there, spark Plug, Like, why don't you graduate
Speaker 1: high school first? And then we'll talk. That's awesome. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it's funny growing up. One of my next
Speaker 1: door neighbors and my best friends growing up, they're they're
Speaker 1: dead was the youngest sergeant in the Marine Corps in
Speaker 1: Okinawa during the World War Two. Um he lied about
Speaker 1: his age, so uh he actually went in when he
Speaker 1: was fifteen years old, and by the time he got
Speaker 1: to Okinawa, he was only seventeen and he was a sergeant.
Speaker 1: And uh. We used to go over there and he'd
Speaker 1: regale us with stories about the corps and that was
Speaker 1: Those were some fun memories for me. I'm sure, brother,
Speaker 1: I'm sure. I mean, it doesn't get any harder than that.
Speaker 1: But can you imagine going through a boot campus Marina
Speaker 1: fifteen years old? I mean, and I couldn't get out
Speaker 1: of bed by myself at fifteen, I know. And you know,
Speaker 1: during wartime, I'm sure the the well, the Marines are
Speaker 1: never nice to their recruits anyway, but I'm sure during
Speaker 1: World War Two it was probably tougher even now than
Speaker 1: it is today. I can only imagine so what year
Speaker 1: did you end up joining the corps? So I well,
Speaker 1: in two thousand one. So I graduated from high school
Speaker 1: I think in May. Uh, and then I mean I
Speaker 1: I walked right off the dais and then you know,
Speaker 1: basically onto the onto the airplane. I ended up graduating
Speaker 1: boot camps September seven to two thousand one. And you know,
Speaker 1: four days later, the whole world changes. So and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm on boot camp leave. At that point, the whole
Speaker 1: world is is just on fire. And you know there's
Speaker 1: little pickers on all the on the bottom of the
Speaker 1: news save your Active duty Military called this number. So
Speaker 1: I called that number and I said, you know, oh
Speaker 1: PSC Handcock reporting for duty, like I'm gonna do anything,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, the the guy on the other
Speaker 1: end goes right on, yeah, so what unit are you in?
Speaker 1: And I said, I'm going to School of Infantry and
Speaker 1: he hung up on me. That's what you know, what
Speaker 1: happens when you do what you told? Right, So you know, um,
Speaker 1: you finished your your your School of Infantry training and
Speaker 1: then where we assigned that after that, I went directly
Speaker 1: to second time fourth Marines, right, so you know I'm
Speaker 1: on the East Post I'm at Camp Geiger right there
Speaker 1: next to the June. And then I kept orders cut
Speaker 1: to second time fourth Marines over in Pendleton. And originally
Speaker 1: I think we had gotten some orders cut for Hawaii,
Speaker 1: but and so everyone was super excited. Uh and then
Speaker 1: those got uh those got recalled. And then next thing,
Speaker 1: you know, I've got a second set of orders that
Speaker 1: come in, says uh to four and I'm like, what
Speaker 1: it is a victor unit. And then I'm like, oh, God, okay,
Speaker 1: here we go. We're going to the big boy unit. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, Fifth Marines is you know, the most combat
Speaker 1: decorated regiment in the history of warfare. Uh. And so
Speaker 1: we're going to that unit. And I'm like, wow, okay,
Speaker 1: and uh it you know, it just went from there.
Speaker 1: We we ended up deploying the first time to Okinawa.
Speaker 1: Uh and we got stop lost stop moved right. So
Speaker 1: everything halts because you know, we've got O I F one.
Speaker 1: So the invasion into Baghdad and then all assets around
Speaker 1: the globe are positioned and then and then kind of
Speaker 1: the whole of the freezing place. If you're not part
Speaker 1: of this push to Baghdad, you're gonna stay where you are.
Speaker 1: So We actually had to watch the invasion um from
Speaker 1: a boat right off the coast of Korea at the time,
Speaker 1: and you know, the first cruise missiles go off the
Speaker 1: ship in March nineteenth and then you know, the invasion
Speaker 1: starts on and we're just watching this. And so we
Speaker 1: got this moniker back then, that kind of float floated
Speaker 1: around fifth Marine Regiment and it was two full or
Speaker 1: no war because you know, now you've got you we're
Speaker 1: all coming back around the same time. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: everybody's coming back from Baghdad. We're coming back from Okinawa.
Speaker 1: We ended up getting stuck there for almost a year. Uh.
Speaker 1: And now you've got these lance corporals with all this
Speaker 1: chest candy and they're they're war heroes, and you're like,
Speaker 1: good god. So of course, you know, we're all walking
Speaker 1: around with national defenses and hell, you can see exactly
Speaker 1: who a two four guy is, you know. Uh. And
Speaker 1: so that really stuck with us, and so we you know,
Speaker 1: we really wanted to get into the fight. And because
Speaker 1: as a marine, you want to be in the fight,
Speaker 1: especially in infantry marine your trained for it. You want
Speaker 1: to go and do your job. And we we got
Speaker 1: everything we asked for, so we ended up going into
Speaker 1: Romati two thousand four in February. We took our first
Speaker 1: cash DA in March, and then April six, the entire
Speaker 1: city started just coming down around us. And you've got
Speaker 1: to think we're we're one battalion because Fellus is going
Speaker 1: on at the same point, and so we're one battalion
Speaker 1: basically in an economy of force operation, just trying to
Speaker 1: hold onto this city. And we also have and I
Speaker 1: think they actually did this correctly for us, but we
Speaker 1: also have a media blackout. Right, so nobody's talking about Ramadi.
Speaker 1: Nobody's talking about what's happening there, nobody's talking about the
Speaker 1: constant gunfighting day in and day out. Because if the
Speaker 1: if the world were to start realizing that there was
Speaker 1: only one battalion of Marines and we're looking at about
Speaker 1: nine true war fighters here, uh, and we're already fighting
Speaker 1: an enemy somewhere in the tune of five thousand people. Uh.
Speaker 1: If they started getting win that they were really actually
Speaker 1: hurting us, know, they would have just flooded Ramadi and
Speaker 1: we would have been eviscerated. So I'm glad that that
Speaker 1: media blackout happened. The problem that we run into now
Speaker 1: is that only now is the Battle of Ramadi in
Speaker 1: two thousand four starting to really come to light for
Speaker 1: everyone outside of the Marine Corps. Yeah. You know, it's
Speaker 1: funny you mentioned that, because it wasn't until much later
Speaker 1: I started reading about Ramadi and I was thinking back then,
Speaker 1: you know, when that was going on, I never heard
Speaker 1: a word about that. Back back here. You know, we
Speaker 1: were hearing about Fallujah obviously, I mean, that was you know,
Speaker 1: the quote unquote big story, but very little was said
Speaker 1: about Ramadi. And it wasn't until long after the fact
Speaker 1: that we were hearing about that. And that's interesting that
Speaker 1: you said that. You know, with the media blackout going on,
Speaker 1: was even Oliver North came out and uh he did
Speaker 1: a war stories on us, and um we he kind
Speaker 1: of came to some of these people and I overheard
Speaker 1: him speaking about it later on. He goes, okay, so
Speaker 1: we've wrapped all the footage. Hey, we're not even gonna
Speaker 1: publish this until you guys return home. Uh. And that
Speaker 1: that's when I knew how bad Ramadi was. Was when uh,
Speaker 1: you know, patriotic reporters like like all of the North
Speaker 1: are saying, hey, we're not even gonna say anything about
Speaker 1: this because we don't want to We don't want to
Speaker 1: do anything to compromise you guys, because you're already in
Speaker 1: a very tough situation. So what was the vibe like
Speaker 1: for you guys on the ground there. I mean, I know,
Speaker 1: when you're in the moment there, you're you're just thinking
Speaker 1: about the mission, You're thinking about that day. But did
Speaker 1: it strike you guys that you know, this is a
Speaker 1: lot bigger than we had envisioned when we went in. Yeah.
Speaker 1: When we first got there, you know, we were doing
Speaker 1: this whole SASSO operation, which is stability and support operations. Right,
Speaker 1: So you're walking around and you're talking to the populace,
Speaker 1: Hey do you have any water? Okay, what's your electricity? Like, Oh,
Speaker 1: let's see if we can help you with that. And
Speaker 1: that that happened for about the first month. Uh, And
Speaker 1: really what we were learning was, uh, the army that
Speaker 1: we had taken we had taken over for we had
Speaker 1: gone out on some patrol with them, uh in their
Speaker 1: Bradley's And so I looked at the Bradley commander and
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, why don't you stop right here.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get out and me and my boys are
Speaker 1: gonna go do a foot patrol and you guys can
Speaker 1: pick us up three hours from now over here somewhere.
Speaker 1: And the guy turned around and goes, you're gonna do
Speaker 1: what And I was like, yeah, it's foot patrol. We're
Speaker 1: gonna go out and pooatrol through the city at night.
Speaker 1: He goes, I wouldn't recommend that. And that's when I
Speaker 1: started realizing that, uh, not only not only were we
Speaker 1: in for a world of something we had no idea
Speaker 1: we were getting ready to be in, but that the
Speaker 1: enemy was truly assessing us and and just kind of
Speaker 1: observing us and observing that we're definitely different in the army.
Speaker 1: At this point, we're you know, deep seating into the populace.
Speaker 1: We're deep seating into the local communities, and we're walking
Speaker 1: around and we're talking to people. Uh. And so I
Speaker 1: think that kind of threw them off and they had
Speaker 1: to watch us for a little while before they decided
Speaker 1: to make their first move. Uh. And their first move
Speaker 1: came April six to April ten, and it was it
Speaker 1: was a slugfest, man, right, And Uh, I saw you
Speaker 1: know in uh in the documentary and we're gonna get
Speaker 1: into the documentary as well called Bastard's Road. Um, that
Speaker 1: was made about your story. You have tattoos of all
Speaker 1: your fallen uh you know, marine members on your arms,
Speaker 1: so you guys started suffering some really really heavy casualties
Speaker 1: at that point. Yeah. And actually that so that that
Speaker 1: little clip you see of the marine with all the tattoos,
Speaker 1: that's actually Macintosh. No, no, no, I mean I've got
Speaker 1: a bunch of tattoos and I've got honorific tattoos all
Speaker 1: over my body as well. But he's got the list. Uh.
Speaker 1: And the crazy thing is that list on his arm
Speaker 1: is only Echo Company. Wow, Yes, that's just one company.
Speaker 1: And when you start unpacking that, we're at a cash
Speaker 1: to rate. And it was it was. It was bad, brother,
Speaker 1: it was bad. And nobody, nobody that went to Ramadi
Speaker 1: came home unchanged, right because I you know, um obviously uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I've seen some of the interviews with you.
Speaker 1: You suffered from PTSD apon returning, but I would imagine
Speaker 1: your battalion probably had an extremely high rate in that.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, uh, and we see it till this day.
Speaker 1: You know, I talked to I since and before this
Speaker 1: movie ever came out. And you know, during this walk,
Speaker 1: and even before, right before the Walk, I started really
Speaker 1: starting to reach out to guys again and to uh
Speaker 1: to be around them and just to have conversations with them,
Speaker 1: because I knew it was something that I had lost.
Speaker 1: And as I'm going through this and even to this
Speaker 1: day speaking with some of these guys, there are a
Speaker 1: lot of guys out there that are still hurting. And
Speaker 1: you know this, I think this film has done a
Speaker 1: few things for them. One, it's it's given them legitimacy
Speaker 1: in our story, uh and really try to help propel
Speaker 1: the narrative around you know what Ramadi was for a
Speaker 1: lot of guys. But too it's also giving them the
Speaker 1: unconscious acknowledgement permission, if you will, to start to open
Speaker 1: up to their family members, who you know, have now
Speaker 1: seen this film as well, and now they have grounds
Speaker 1: to understand just a little bit of what went on
Speaker 1: over there. You know, It's funny because you know, I
Speaker 1: look back on my own experiences and then today I mean,
Speaker 1: what's going on? And I'm not bad mouth and the
Speaker 1: v A, I'm not. Uh. The v A is like
Speaker 1: light years better than they were when I got out,
Speaker 1: but they still have a long way to go. They
Speaker 1: still have a long way to go, and we're learning
Speaker 1: what we can and above PTSD, I think, as you know,
Speaker 1: day by day. But it's amazing this. I think this
Speaker 1: generation has done more, you know, for each other. I
Speaker 1: think veterans in UH, this generation are realizing, hey, you
Speaker 1: know what, we have to rely on each other because
Speaker 1: that's what we did in the in the military, and
Speaker 1: that's what we're gonna have to do when we all
Speaker 1: leave service. Would you agree with you? You're not wrong, brother,
Speaker 1: And I see that so much. I think we see
Speaker 1: it on two fronts now, right because this is also
Speaker 1: probably our generation of warfighters right now is probably the
Speaker 1: most technologically advanced but able to get their stories out
Speaker 1: as quickly as possible. So you're seeing so much content, right,
Speaker 1: So many different people are deciding to write their books
Speaker 1: and tell their stories about what they went through UH.
Speaker 1: And I think that's really amazing to do, especially from
Speaker 1: a historical standpoint. To just have this amount of uh,
Speaker 1: you know, this wealth of experience and knowledge that is
Speaker 1: absolutely uh recorded and and pushed out to the masses.
Speaker 1: I think it's amazing and you're right, and I can
Speaker 1: spend all day disparaging in the VA, but I can
Speaker 1: talk to Blue in the face, it won't change anything.
Speaker 1: And so we do see that we have to help
Speaker 1: each other. And the beauty of that is the the
Speaker 1: exponential rise of the veteran nonprofit machine, if you will, right.
Speaker 1: And so all these veterans are getting out and understanding
Speaker 1: that the VA is not doing what it's supposed to
Speaker 1: be doing. It can't accommodate. You know, let's call it
Speaker 1: the three million veterans or whatever it is. If we
Speaker 1: are surely the one percent. So then we decided that
Speaker 1: we'll do it on our own. And you know, I've
Speaker 1: also taken up that that that mantle as well, and
Speaker 1: I started a nonprofit called Bastard's Road Project, and I
Speaker 1: take veterans on long distance types to show them what
Speaker 1: I went through, but also to show them that they're
Speaker 1: very capable of doing something very strenuous, both mentally and physically,
Speaker 1: and then to see gorgeous parts of this country that
Speaker 1: they fought for. And you know, our tagline is walk
Speaker 1: long distances, figure some ship out and that's all we do. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: when you got home, what year did you did you
Speaker 1: get out of the Marine Corps? I got up. My
Speaker 1: last day was September twenty one to two thousand nine,
Speaker 1: and I rolled right into the University of Maryland and
Speaker 1: so I was I was double major, and I was
Speaker 1: actually two weeks late for class when I got out
Speaker 1: of the Marine Corps, so and that my professors knew
Speaker 1: it already, and so we were fine, uh. And I
Speaker 1: rolled right into a double major of Arabic and Russian
Speaker 1: because I had already learned Arabic in the Marine Corps.
Speaker 1: And then I started to dabble with Russian, and so
Speaker 1: I was like, well, screw it, I can just phone
Speaker 1: this in and I'll get a degree real quick and
Speaker 1: move on and move about my way. And you know,
Speaker 1: I was doing really well for about a year and
Speaker 1: a half and then something just happened and I started
Speaker 1: going to the bars more and stopped going to class,
Speaker 1: and I really felt that I was kind of like,
Speaker 1: looking back on it, I really felt that I was
Speaker 1: a fish out of water and all of these kids,
Speaker 1: and it was right around the time that all these
Speaker 1: kids were protesting about being in Afghanistan, uh, and there
Speaker 1: was just there was constant protests on campus, and I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't want to be a part of
Speaker 1: any of this. So I would just avoid it all together.
Speaker 1: And that's and it found me at the bars. And
Speaker 1: then here we go. Now I'm drinking at a bar.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to class, and you know there's the
Speaker 1: first d U I and then ship almost a year
Speaker 1: to the day of the first one is the second one,
Speaker 1: and then followed in short order after the cop dropped
Speaker 1: me off back home, which I still don't understand this
Speaker 1: day why I wasn't arrested for the second one. I
Speaker 1: think he took pity on me, understand, I think he did.
Speaker 1: And uh, he dropped me off at home and said, hey, man,
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. Go get your car in the morning.
Speaker 1: You know, we didn't impound it. It's in a parking stall.
Speaker 1: You're fine. And uh, that's when I decided I would
Speaker 1: go in and uh end it all. And you know,
Speaker 1: you're looking in the mirror and you you hate yourself,
Speaker 1: you hate what you become. I blamed the Marine Corps. Uh,
Speaker 1: And then you know, at the same time, I've disgraced
Speaker 1: the Marine Corps, disgraced my family name. I'm not a
Speaker 1: good dad, and you know I'm not a good friend.
Speaker 1: And I don't need to do this anymore. And so
Speaker 1: I started emptying pills into my stomach, right, and that
Speaker 1: was the moment. And after all these pills started getting
Speaker 1: into my stomach, it started cramping right and like it
Speaker 1: was there doing what what you wanted it to do, John,
Speaker 1: and I realized I didn't want that, and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh no, I've made a made an even bigger, bigger mistake.
Speaker 1: So I got in the car, uh, and I drove
Speaker 1: from College Park, Maryland to Baltimore, Maryland, to the VA
Speaker 1: Hospital in Baltimore. And that's probably about a forty five
Speaker 1: minute drive. And I drove that in seventeen minutes. And
Speaker 1: I was cooking. So I broke every rule. If there
Speaker 1: was a law on the road, I broke it. Um.
Speaker 1: But I got there, and you know, here comes the
Speaker 1: stomach pumping, uh and and all that, and so that
Speaker 1: happens and then I wind up in the on the
Speaker 1: sixth floor in the psyche warden. So I'm there for
Speaker 1: four or five days and I'm you know, I'm broken,
Speaker 1: and I'm just sitting there like doing puzzles and coloring.
Speaker 1: And I see on the news there's this dude named
Speaker 1: Mike Vady who is an army captain and he had
Speaker 1: walked one kilometer for each person that was killed in
Speaker 1: the Rock or Afghanistan since THEO one kickoff. And I
Speaker 1: just something, it just it started speaking to me, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I have to I have to do that.
Speaker 1: And so I got out of the hospital a few
Speaker 1: days later and I was just charged right, and I
Speaker 1: was like, I have this mission, but how do I
Speaker 1: complete it? Because I'm three and eight pounds. I'm an
Speaker 1: absolutely disgusting food blister right now, and you know what
Speaker 1: do I do? So I got on a mountain bike
Speaker 1: and I rode a mountain bike for ten months and
Speaker 1: went from three o eight to about and then said, okay,
Speaker 1: now you can do this. And so I told all
Speaker 1: my boys what I was doing. And there was no
Speaker 1: plan to the walk, to the route to and I
Speaker 1: just started walking. And September eleven, at once five seen
Speaker 1: in the morning, here we go. Wow. So that this
Speaker 1: uh entire project of yours really kicked off. Uh just
Speaker 1: by watching a television clip and it gave you your purpose. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the guy's name was Mike's Bed and so he
Speaker 1: had he he had been he had, you know, graduate
Speaker 1: of the military Academy at West Point and UH, he
Speaker 1: had been in some pretty austere positions as well, and
Speaker 1: he was showing up at the Army Navy game, which
Speaker 1: was you know, because this is now November. The Army
Speaker 1: Navy Game is always in December. It's usually either at
Speaker 1: M ANDT Bank in Baltimore or it's in Philly, and
Speaker 1: that that year it was in Baltimore. And so he
Speaker 1: was ending at the Army Navy game at halftime, and
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't see the I didn't see the
Speaker 1: luster in that piece, but I did see the merit
Speaker 1: in doing what he was doing, and it just spoke
Speaker 1: to me. So you decided, okay, you were gonna visit
Speaker 1: all your former marine buzz. How did the plan comes
Speaker 1: to be here? Well, I just you know, I just
Speaker 1: got on the road and started walking, and I was
Speaker 1: supposed to head south first, but I ended up I
Speaker 1: ended up accidentally heading north because I had two buddies
Speaker 1: that lived up by the Pennsylvania border. So I met
Speaker 1: with one on the first day that I walked, And
Speaker 1: the first day was only about twenty miles I think,
Speaker 1: and I got to him, uh, and then I stayed
Speaker 1: with him for two days I think, maybe three, and
Speaker 1: then I walked even further north to another buddy who
Speaker 1: was almost down near on the Pennsylvania border. And then
Speaker 1: then I turned around and started walking south. And so
Speaker 1: the route is pretty circuitous. And when you when I
Speaker 1: kind of tell it to you're gonna be like, wow,
Speaker 1: that's really insane. So it starts in Maryland, goes down
Speaker 1: to all the way down in Miami, and then I
Speaker 1: traced the Gulf into Texas, mess around all through Texas,
Speaker 1: down all the way down to San Antonio and Corpus
Speaker 1: Christie and then up to Lubbock and a bunch of
Speaker 1: places in between, Houston, Austin, UH, Dallas, and then UH
Speaker 1: in the Colorado back east to Nebraska, up to South Dakota,
Speaker 1: then to Wyoming and then Montana, Idaho, Washington, and then
Speaker 1: down the western seaboard. Wow, that's yeah, it's not a
Speaker 1: straight line. No, No, it definitely wasn't a straight line.
Speaker 1: Now I have to ask, I mean, there's some pretty
Speaker 1: desolate areas you're crossing there. Um, did you have any
Speaker 1: uh interactions with some wildlife out there? Oh? Brother? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: The only the only animal I did not experience that
Speaker 1: the United States has to offer is the grizzly bear.
Speaker 1: And I am okay with that, but yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: crossing over the Big Horn Mountains in uh in Wyoming,
Speaker 1: you know, I encountered a white wolf about from me,
Speaker 1: just absolutely stunning. And then you know, I was in,
Speaker 1: I was in. I was west of high Point, North Carolina,
Speaker 1: out into the woods, heading into Tennessee for a for
Speaker 1: a minute and then back down and uh, man, I
Speaker 1: had a dream that an elephant was stepping on my head,
Speaker 1: right and I come out of this dream, I wake
Speaker 1: up and there's still pressure on my head, but now
Speaker 1: it's breathing, and I'm realizing that there is a black
Speaker 1: bear sniffing my head through my sleeping bag. And so
Speaker 1: that that was that was pretty awesome. Um you know, I,
Speaker 1: oh god, I got stocked by a mountain lion and
Speaker 1: blodgett Oregon for almost three days. Uh he was a
Speaker 1: big tom man. I mean he must have been three
Speaker 1: hundred pounds. He was absolutely huge. And uh yeah, he
Speaker 1: he just kinda he walked with me for quite a
Speaker 1: few days and you know, never getting any further in
Speaker 1: about away from me. But the closest he ever got
Speaker 1: was about ten ms and uh and that that's a
Speaker 1: little too close for comfort, especially a big cat like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I mean he's just looking at me like, all right,
Speaker 1: how do I figure this dude out? Because that looks
Speaker 1: like lunch the ruck sack might have thrown him off,
Speaker 1: you know, like that's I think that's the only thing
Speaker 1: that really kind of helped me is I don't look
Speaker 1: like a standard human walking through the woods. Uh. And
Speaker 1: I don't look like an easy target. And maybe even
Speaker 1: to him, to a predator, I might look like I
Speaker 1: have armor. Uh. And so that's you know, I think
Speaker 1: that probably went in my favor. So you know, as
Speaker 1: you as you're doing this, how did the film project
Speaker 1: come to be? So I never started out with any idea,
Speaker 1: any inclination, any desire really to you know, document this
Speaker 1: in any sort of documentary platform. Uh. Brian Morrison, the
Speaker 1: guy who put the film together, right to your filmmaker,
Speaker 1: your editor, your composer, all of this. Uh. He and
Speaker 1: I actually went to high school together. Now I didn't
Speaker 1: know him, and let's be really real about this. He
Speaker 1: was a year ahead of me. Uh. He was a jock.
Speaker 1: I was a pothead. So they don't mesh and uh,
Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna say the other have the
Speaker 1: opposite effective, right, But so he had he had contacted
Speaker 1: me through a mutual friend when I was down in
Speaker 1: slide Lle, Louisiana, and he just kind of called me
Speaker 1: and talked to me for about three hours, I think,
Speaker 1: and you know, he kind of proposed this idea of,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know exactly what what to do
Speaker 1: with all this, but I'd really love to document it,
Speaker 1: and I'd really love to record it and record your story.
Speaker 1: And I was super reticent about that man, and you know,
Speaker 1: I slept on it, and you know, I really thought
Speaker 1: about it, and and you know, thought about what I
Speaker 1: was really doing, and if I'm gonna actually try to
Speaker 1: help people, then why wouldn't you want to try to
Speaker 1: document this and put this into some sort of you know,
Speaker 1: documentary format. And so I thought about it for a
Speaker 1: little while, and then I had to pause the walk
Speaker 1: in the Lubbock, Texas so I could fly back to
Speaker 1: Maryland and do a V A appointment that I could
Speaker 1: not miss because we all know you missed a VA appointment,
Speaker 1: they'll stack you to the bottom of the deck and
Speaker 1: I'll call you nine years later. So I decided I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, let's not do that, so I paused
Speaker 1: the walk went home. He lived about a mile and
Speaker 1: a half from my folks house. So after this VA
Speaker 1: appointment in Baltimore one day, I just came back called
Speaker 1: him and said, hey, man, do you want to get
Speaker 1: together and let's see about this interview. So we sat down,
Speaker 1: I sat down on camera for about two hours and
Speaker 1: we kind of felt each other out and we just
Speaker 1: told stories and just trying to trying to figure it
Speaker 1: all out. And next thing you know, it was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this can work, and I'm really I'm I can do this.
Speaker 1: And so now comes the difficult part because you know,
Speaker 1: all the boys know that I'm walking, all the gold
Speaker 1: Start families know that I'm walking. But now, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, after Lubbock, Texas, right, I took this little hiatus.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, now I got this camera guy
Speaker 1: attached to me, and so that that was a little
Speaker 1: odd at first. And we talked to uh he the
Speaker 1: first time he came out to film me. Uh he
Speaker 1: would fly out about eight I think eight more times
Speaker 1: over the over the duration of the rest of my
Speaker 1: walk and in different places. Uh and he would he
Speaker 1: would come in and meet with these guys and meet
Speaker 1: with these families and you know, interview him. And so
Speaker 1: the first one that we did was Levi Gibbs out
Speaker 1: at North Platte south to uh Nebraska, and I was,
Speaker 1: you know, I was pretty petrified because Levi's Levi's a
Speaker 1: pretty towering individual. Um. And so I was like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: I gotta call my brother and tell him, you know, hey,
Speaker 1: what do you think? And so I called him about
Speaker 1: two weeks prior to me gett into his house and
Speaker 1: I was walking through Colorado at the time, and I
Speaker 1: asked him and I said, hey, man, what do you
Speaker 1: think about this? Then he goes to what I only
Speaker 1: got one question for you? I mean, is is Brian
Speaker 1: on the level? And I was like, yeah, I trust him?
Speaker 1: And he goes, all right, if you trust him, then
Speaker 1: let's try it. And you know that that's really how
Speaker 1: it all kind of came to be. It was just
Speaker 1: the amount of trust that we've had in each other
Speaker 1: that we wouldn't we wouldn't try to hurt or do
Speaker 1: anything bad to each other, and that sure, there's this
Speaker 1: camera and there's this thing, so let's let's try it.
Speaker 1: And if it you know, we've always said Brian and
Speaker 1: I've always said, well, hell it, the movie sucks. At
Speaker 1: least you know, we've got something for two four to
Speaker 1: watch and kind of understand, you know, what went on
Speaker 1: a little bit. Uh and you know, fortunately for us,
Speaker 1: but the movie doesn't suck, and you know it's helping
Speaker 1: people now. Now. When he had a film crew out there,
Speaker 1: uh really, Oh no, he know, he worked. He worked
Speaker 1: by himself, so he every bloom operator or a sound
Speaker 1: guy or anything. He would pack. It was amazing to
Speaker 1: see the amount of camera gear he would pack into
Speaker 1: a rental car and then come track my ass down. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, and so I'm looking at all this, like,
Speaker 1: good lord, you flew with all this, Like what was
Speaker 1: your what was your excessive baggage for? Like, is that's
Speaker 1: gotta be a thousand dollars um. So but yeah, he
Speaker 1: would just and he would he would come out and
Speaker 1: just work like a madman for you know, four or
Speaker 1: five days, and we would it would be NonStop. I mean,
Speaker 1: he'd he'd get me in the car and be like,
Speaker 1: all right, where's the most beautiful place you walked in
Speaker 1: the past month? And I'm like, oh, over there, and
Speaker 1: he's like, well, we gotta go over there. And you
Speaker 1: gotta rewalk it so that I can film it. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, I've already, dude, I've already walked it. Man.
Speaker 1: And then you know, there were certain times where you know,
Speaker 1: he wouldn't be able to come out for another two
Speaker 1: weeks or something, but knowing that, like let's say the
Speaker 1: bad Lands was coming up, or um, you know, fourth
Speaker 1: of July pass through Idaho, and so he would we
Speaker 1: would drive out to these places so he could film
Speaker 1: me walking it, knowing damn well that now I've seen
Speaker 1: what I have to walk through. I've already walked it.
Speaker 1: Now he's gonna drop me back off where he picks
Speaker 1: me up from when he leaves, and I gotta go
Speaker 1: rewalk everything that and you know, knowing the future of
Speaker 1: what's to come, and I'm like, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: gotta walk up this hill twice. I mean, it was.
Speaker 1: It was ridiculous, but that's I mean, that's what we
Speaker 1: had to do. It was, you know, it was a
Speaker 1: one man operation in filming and it was a two
Speaker 1: man operation, and trying to build this thing. It was crazy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Having done some security work for the filming industry, I mean,
Speaker 1: for a filmmaker to be his own director, cameraman, sound guy, editor,
Speaker 1: the whole nine yards. Hats off to him. That's uh,
Speaker 1: that's that's not an easy job, you know. I remember
Speaker 1: you you talked about all the Gary fluid. I remember
Speaker 1: on one of the war films that I worked on,
Speaker 1: the still photographer, the guy who just takes still photos.
Speaker 1: He had like you know those big long carts you
Speaker 1: see in the airport that carry people's luggage. He had
Speaker 1: three of those with just all of his camera gear.
Speaker 1: And that's just a still photo, right, I mean it's insane.
Speaker 1: And you know, i'd I didn't know anything about cameras
Speaker 1: before you know, Brian showed up in my life. Sure,
Speaker 1: I know that we have them and you can take
Speaker 1: pictures with them. I had no idea, you know what
Speaker 1: any of this four K, a K, ten K, whatever
Speaker 1: the hell this all is, whatever that was. And then
Speaker 1: to realize that he used the camera that they used
Speaker 1: to shoot the Avengers movies with, and I was like, oh, shut.
Speaker 1: So then you start wondering, well, how much is that camera?
Speaker 1: And then you start realizing that you're getting into six
Speaker 1: digit numbers of camera equipment, and they're like, wow, this
Speaker 1: is like this is impressive Wow, that's awesome. And now
Speaker 1: you know when he joined you, Uh, you know, what
Speaker 1: was the I want to say, Well, I want to ask,
Speaker 1: did it change any of the interactions you had with
Speaker 1: either your former like uh, you know, guys of your
Speaker 1: unit or the gold Star families having the camera there
Speaker 1: or do you think it was still um natural for
Speaker 1: you people? No, it was, you know, and I worried
Speaker 1: about it, and uh in the beginning you could see
Speaker 1: it for a little bit, but as more and more
Speaker 1: guys started talking to each other about, Hey, Hancocks just
Speaker 1: came to me, Oh, yeah, Brian's attached. Hey, it's actually
Speaker 1: super easy. Don't even worry about it. Just act like
Speaker 1: Brian's not even there. Well, I had already been working
Speaker 1: with Brian so much that I forgot. I just forgot
Speaker 1: about the camera and just did my thing because it
Speaker 1: didn't matter to me. I'm the same person on or
Speaker 1: off camera, so it just it felt natural to me.
Speaker 1: So that I think me being so natural and me
Speaker 1: just ignoring the hell out of him. Uh it I came.
Speaker 1: I think that kind of subconsciously gave all the other guys, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, permission to do the same and just like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: through it like a Hancock's here and we're just gonna
Speaker 1: have fun. Right. I have to ask you, I'm getting
Speaker 1: off subject with your name. Growing up in Massachusetts, John Hancock. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's that's a you know, a very famous name. Uh
Speaker 1: in the American Revolution? Did did uh? Did you run
Speaker 1: into some issues with that? Especially going through the Marine
Speaker 1: Corps boot camp? I can imagine something happened there. But
Speaker 1: growing up was that an issue for you? Well? You know,
Speaker 1: I I learned very quickly. Uh, and I think a
Speaker 1: lot quicker than my peers. Uh what a cock was?
Speaker 1: And then uh and and then you know, I say
Speaker 1: to this day, hey man, listen, if you can make
Speaker 1: a joke about my name and I laugh, I will
Speaker 1: give you a thousand dollars because I've heard absolutely everyone
Speaker 1: and none of it's funny anymore. But you know, if
Speaker 1: you got to give everybody their chance to try, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because growing up, you know again, John Hancock was you know,
Speaker 1: one of the big uh rabble rouses, I guess in
Speaker 1: the American Revolution, you know, in the Boston name. So yeah,
Speaker 1: he was the one that signed the Declaration of Independence
Speaker 1: in big, huge letters right in the middle so the
Speaker 1: king would see it. So, yeah, so the king can
Speaker 1: see it without his specs. Yeah, does that fit your
Speaker 1: personality a little bit? You know, I venture to say
Speaker 1: yes without tooting my horn too much. That's good, that's good.
Speaker 1: You're keeping up the tradition. Then, absolutely, And you know,
Speaker 1: what do we have if we don't have? So if
Speaker 1: I got to be an asshole, sometimes I guess I
Speaker 1: can do that too well. So you know, as uh,
Speaker 1: the guy who put me through s F training said
Speaker 1: sometimes it's better to be a bad influence than no
Speaker 1: influence at all. There you go, brother, I mean that's
Speaker 1: that's not that's not wrong. But I have to ask you,
Speaker 1: you know, as you're making your trip, I mean miles
Speaker 1: across the country, did anyone join you along the way
Speaker 1: for any length of time? So? Yeah, I had one
Speaker 1: marine joined me in New Bronzels, Texas as I was
Speaker 1: walking down to the Alamo in se uh in San Antonio,
Speaker 1: and that was gonna be a two day walk, I
Speaker 1: think it was. And I had to dial it down
Speaker 1: for him because he hadn't you know, he wasn't training
Speaker 1: and didn't do you know, thirty miles a day. Uh,
Speaker 1: So I whittled it down to doing I think we
Speaker 1: ended up doing forty miles over two days. I figured
Speaker 1: twenty miles a day. Uh. You know, you wake up
Speaker 1: at five and then you know you're done by two
Speaker 1: in the afternoon, so you know that that that's a
Speaker 1: good move. Well he he had, and of course he's
Speaker 1: he's a marine, and so he brings out this honking ruck, right,
Speaker 1: and this thing's as heavy as mine. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: what are you doing, dude, and he goes, well, if
Speaker 1: you're doing it, I'm doing it. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I keet that home, but like, you're going to die
Speaker 1: over the next two days, like you have been trained
Speaker 1: for this. And sure ship the next day, man, I
Speaker 1: mean the last mile into the Alamo, he he, I
Speaker 1: mean he was limping into the Alamo and we had
Speaker 1: some news crew there, some local affiliate for you know whatever, um,
Speaker 1: and they were down there and they filmed us in
Speaker 1: and uh and then the other really beautiful join was
Speaker 1: right at the end and it was the last I
Speaker 1: want to say, it was the last four or five days.
Speaker 1: And Carrie Schrag, who is the youngest brother uh and
Speaker 1: a gold star brother of Dustin Shreige who we lost
Speaker 1: in Iraq in on May three. Uh, he joined me
Speaker 1: and he's he's in the film as well, but he
Speaker 1: joined me for I think the last seventy five seventy
Speaker 1: eight miles from Long Beach all the way down into Pendleton. Wow,
Speaker 1: that was really yeah. And you know, I mean because
Speaker 1: I was I was very lonely for a long period
Speaker 1: of time. Uh, and you know, those those massive amounts
Speaker 1: of relief would when I finally did get to another
Speaker 1: brother's house, another gold Star family's house, there was this
Speaker 1: relief of you know, not being lonely and wanted to talk.
Speaker 1: And I think that's why our conversations were so absolutely
Speaker 1: uh just heartfelt and warming and and supportive. Was because
Speaker 1: you know, I, I've been experiencing this thing, and now
Speaker 1: I get to experience your grief with you and we
Speaker 1: can share that. Yeah. You know, um, because I was
Speaker 1: thinking about this as you know, reading your story, and
Speaker 1: I often wondered, you know, you talk about it's it's
Speaker 1: an exercise and healing not only for yourself but for
Speaker 1: the people that you're meeting. But you know, when you're
Speaker 1: on the road and you have all that solitude and
Speaker 1: you're around some some of the most beautiful areas that
Speaker 1: our country can offer. I often wonder where your thoughts were.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure your thoughts of us have been
Speaker 1: all over the place at that point. You know. I
Speaker 1: at some point, you know, when I would see these
Speaker 1: just absolutely gorgeous areas, I would become pretty sad. And
Speaker 1: it was because, you know, I'm looking at just sheer beauty.
Speaker 1: I'm walking through to a postcard and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: my brothers aren't here to experience this, and they'll never
Speaker 1: experience it, and so that was very sad for me.
Speaker 1: But you know, I guess a few days ago a
Speaker 1: marine brother of mine had watched the film and uh,
Speaker 1: he he wrote something and you know, at the end,
Speaker 1: he said, your brothers are seeing this because uh, you
Speaker 1: are living for them and and you're actually they're emissary
Speaker 1: and you uh and because you are still living that
Speaker 1: they absolutely do get to see it. And that really
Speaker 1: hit me hard. And I thought that was really neat. Um.
Speaker 1: So you know that it kind of changes perspectives over time.
Speaker 1: But uh, you know, there were so many different times
Speaker 1: that my thoughts would go into some of these really
Speaker 1: deep dark memories. Uh. And what I was finding was
Speaker 1: that over the course of time, I was able to
Speaker 1: access all of my memories from combat, even the very
Speaker 1: difficult ones, and I was continually accessing them while pushing
Speaker 1: myself through something very physically demanding. And by doing that,
Speaker 1: I was actually kind of doing this really amped up
Speaker 1: if you would consider it a cognitive behavioral therapy. But
Speaker 1: I was just doing it alone. And I've learned that
Speaker 1: I'm now able to access my memories without becoming just
Speaker 1: a big sobbing mess on the ground, and I can
Speaker 1: I can kind of weave my way in and out
Speaker 1: of the memory without it truly affecting me, uh to
Speaker 1: the point of like debilitation, if you will. And and
Speaker 1: do you think that uh, a lot of the guys
Speaker 1: you know that that we're suffering from your unit, do
Speaker 1: you think this helped them out a lot? I know
Speaker 1: it has, And I won't say it's helped every single person,
Speaker 1: but I can tell you that there have been a
Speaker 1: multitude of magnificent bastards who have called me or text me,
Speaker 1: wrote me, emailed me something, uh, telling me that it
Speaker 1: has helped them and that you know, it's helped their wives,
Speaker 1: or it's helped their mothers, or it's helped their family
Speaker 1: to understand a little bit more and that means the
Speaker 1: world to me. Yeah, because I think you know, military
Speaker 1: guys said, they're much more willing to talk to another
Speaker 1: military person, be it a Marina Army guy. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's tough for them to explain to their to
Speaker 1: their parents, are their spouse when they get home, because
Speaker 1: they you know, nothing against your families. They were all
Speaker 1: there for you, but they just don't understand. They don't
Speaker 1: understand what's going on. No, yeah, they don't. And I
Speaker 1: think the other sad thing that we don't talk about,
Speaker 1: but is also a piece of this is sure there's
Speaker 1: moral injury and you know you were raised a certain way.
Speaker 1: I got that, but uh, I think there is a
Speaker 1: massive fear of judgment. I know there was for me.
Speaker 1: I know there has been for others. Um. I try
Speaker 1: not to speak for the veteran populace as a whole.
Speaker 1: I can't do that. I don't know every veteran. I
Speaker 1: don't know what they've all experienced, but I do know
Speaker 1: what I've experienced, and I do know what my brothers
Speaker 1: told me. And I think there is a assive amount
Speaker 1: of fear of judgment for doing something, uh that they
Speaker 1: have they can't put into context of why that would happen. Uh,
Speaker 1: And so the civilian population. Uh, and because it happens,
Speaker 1: and you know, they're idiots out there and just you know,
Speaker 1: real works of art that decided to call you, you know,
Speaker 1: a baby killer or something. Um, and that happens. And
Speaker 1: so I think there. I think the other reason that
Speaker 1: you know, I shut down for a long time was
Speaker 1: that I didn't want to have that happen and I
Speaker 1: didn't want to continually experience that while trying to tell
Speaker 1: my story, And so I buttoned up for a long time. Right.
Speaker 1: And there's a there's always a great deal of survivor
Speaker 1: guilt as well when yeah, absolutely, especially so badly, right absolutely.
Speaker 1: And I know a lot of guys, Uh, A lot
Speaker 1: of guys feel the same way, and they just you know,
Speaker 1: they wish these guys were here, and they we wish
Speaker 1: that we took their place. That's the sad part. Um.
Speaker 1: I have to add, when you when you reach Pendleton,
Speaker 1: what was that like? Uh, you know, walking through the
Speaker 1: gates there. Uh, that was amazing because it was the
Speaker 1: last day and you know, I had actually really arrived
Speaker 1: in San clement A two days prior, right, And so
Speaker 1: that truly was the end of the walk, right, because
Speaker 1: the last eight miles are you know, into Pendleton's uh
Speaker 1: and you know, I can do eight miles standing on
Speaker 1: my head. So you know, walking in on Friday and
Speaker 1: no one was around, and you know, cars were whizzing by,
Speaker 1: and it's just me and Brian and Carrie Shrag and
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of hugged everybody. I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's over, and he goes, well, it's not really over.
Speaker 1: I mean we still have Monday to do, but uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of over. And it was kind of lackluster, right,
Speaker 1: And then you know, Monday morning, at zero eight, I
Speaker 1: step off from the only Hanson Beach house where I
Speaker 1: had walked into on Friday, and you know, there's God,
Speaker 1: there's a hundred dudes with me. People from all over
Speaker 1: the country flew into come and support and walk with me.
Speaker 1: Guys I hadn't seen in hell, Guys I hadn't seen
Speaker 1: in sixteen years, fourteen years. Uh, and for them to
Speaker 1: be there with me at the end was absolutely amazing.
Speaker 1: And then you walk through the gates of Pendleton, and
Speaker 1: this is to really show you how far the military
Speaker 1: has come when it when it comes to the softer
Speaker 1: side of the house, the emotion side of the house,
Speaker 1: and speaking out about things that you've experienced. Uh, same time.
Speaker 1: Fourth Marines, the entire current unit participated in that day,
Speaker 1: and they lined every Marines from that battalion lined the
Speaker 1: road and as I walked by them, they saluted and
Speaker 1: then they got information behind us. And you know, so
Speaker 1: now I'm walking with an entire battalion of Marines plus
Speaker 1: you know, a hundred and fifty people that have flown
Speaker 1: all over the country. And then when I get there,
Speaker 1: you know, there's elements of all you know, one, five
Speaker 1: to five, three, five are all there, and you know,
Speaker 1: there's hell, there's four thousand people at the end of
Speaker 1: this thing, and you my son's there, and uh it was.
Speaker 1: It was absolutely one of the coolest things I've ever
Speaker 1: done in my life to experience that amount of support
Speaker 1: from the active military and from the active Marine Corps um.
Speaker 1: You know, I I struggle with how to show you
Speaker 1: emotionally what I was feeling or tell you emotionally what
Speaker 1: I was feeling, because it was overload. It was absolute overload.
Speaker 1: But in the best way possible that had to have
Speaker 1: been Yeah, you had have been after fifty months. I
Speaker 1: know it sounds silly, but you had been walking on
Speaker 1: air at that point. Oh yeah, absolutely that that rock
Speaker 1: didn't weigh it damn pounds. Yeah, I know. We talked
Speaker 1: offline and uh you uh tell our listeners of what
Speaker 1: your feet looked like at the end of this. Oh buddy,
Speaker 1: I tell you what my My feet looked like a
Speaker 1: prehistoric river bed. I mean it was. They were absolutely rugged.
Speaker 1: Uh you know, and I had. The problem is is
Speaker 1: I had been getting blisters for about four thousand miles
Speaker 1: right because I never gave my chance my feet a
Speaker 1: chance to heal. So every day, after I've done with
Speaker 1: the day, I would just lance these blisters. I'd let
Speaker 1: him drain, I'd pack them full of powder. I'd wrap
Speaker 1: them up in tape super tight, and then the next
Speaker 1: morning I would unwrap the tape, I'd repack them with powder,
Speaker 1: rewrap the tape, and then get on with the walks
Speaker 1: of the day. So for four thousand miles, I'm walking
Speaker 1: on blistered feet and it was tough. Uh, not until
Speaker 1: I got to the PCT right to the Pacific Crest's
Speaker 1: Trail at the Bridge of the Gods between Washington and Oregon.
Speaker 1: And I got onto the PCT that I stopped getting
Speaker 1: blisters because you know, for the next seven or eight days,
Speaker 1: maybe nine days that I was walking on the PCT,
Speaker 1: I was walking on pine needles and I mean I
Speaker 1: was just walking on pillows and it was awesome. So
Speaker 1: that gave my my feet a chance to really heal
Speaker 1: up from a lot of the hard pounding of rows
Speaker 1: roads and dirt road and all that. And so after that,
Speaker 1: I didn't really have too many more blisters until right
Speaker 1: at the end when I when I definitely I definitely
Speaker 1: got a few shoring up coming into coming into San
Speaker 1: Clemente before the end of the war. Well, um, let's
Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about the film Bastard Road. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it won the Best Documentary at the Santa Barbara Film Festival,
Speaker 1: the Audience Award at the Slam Dance. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: what's your thoughts on how how all of this turned out? Well,
Speaker 1: I was, I was. I didn't realize it was gonna
Speaker 1: do what it did. Um. You know, so we we
Speaker 1: wereld premiered at Santa Barbara International Film Festival and the
Speaker 1: first day we had uh, I think we had a
Speaker 1: theater that was probably a hundred and fifty seat theater. Uh,
Speaker 1: And it wasn't it wasn't dead. I'd call it about
Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty people in there, and there there
Speaker 1: were definitely a few seats open, but it was still
Speaker 1: pretty full. Um. And then after that we had a
Speaker 1: Q and A and everyone stayed. And Santa Barbara is
Speaker 1: not a military town, right, I mean, it's it's pretty
Speaker 1: far north up there, north of l A. And it's
Speaker 1: it's pretty hoity toity up there, and so there's not
Speaker 1: a lot of military up there, and they stayed. And
Speaker 1: then you know, I walked outside after this Q and
Speaker 1: A and everyone's still out there, and now all the
Speaker 1: people that have seen this film are talking to all
Speaker 1: these other people who are, you know, waiting in line
Speaker 1: to see another film, and everyone's crying, and you know,
Speaker 1: I was. It really affected people. And then the next
Speaker 1: day we got a phone call that evening that says, hey,
Speaker 1: you've got a venue change tomorrow. I think it was
Speaker 1: a Sunday. Your film is being shown at the Liberos Theater,
Speaker 1: which is like a six fifty person theater. And when
Speaker 1: I showed up, like I think I showed up about
Speaker 1: an hour before the film was screening. And because I
Speaker 1: was hanging out with a couple of Marines that chose
Speaker 1: to come up and hang out with us and you know,
Speaker 1: experienced this whole thing together. I mean, we turned the
Speaker 1: corner and there is a line down the block to
Speaker 1: get into this movie and I'm like, oh, ship, Like
Speaker 1: this is big, and the theater was packed, and you know,
Speaker 1: just seeing the connection that was made at every one
Speaker 1: of these film festivals, uh, throughout the course of the
Speaker 1: connection to the civilian population was amazing. And it was
Speaker 1: something that I've always wanted to do, is to bridge
Speaker 1: that gap between veteran and civilian so that you know,
Speaker 1: maybe the civilian doesn't have to ask those dumb questions anymore, uh,
Speaker 1: and maybe they don't have to feel awkward for asking questions.
Speaker 1: But if we can give them something that not every
Speaker 1: veteran experience is the same way, but to understand one
Speaker 1: man's story of struggle and redemption, uh, it might give
Speaker 1: them a little bit better insight into the veteran population
Speaker 1: as a whole. Uh. And you know, maybe pause for
Speaker 1: a second and give a little bit of a listening
Speaker 1: ear for a little bit longer, uh, and maybe not
Speaker 1: be so quick to judge and so to see that
Speaker 1: and just to experience this over this past year and
Speaker 1: then you know, with the philm kind of getting picked
Speaker 1: up through Drama Toss and then having this, uh, this
Speaker 1: major release on all these streaming platforms and cable you know,
Speaker 1: TV on demand platforms. Uh. It's been humbling. And you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not worried about people watching my story
Speaker 1: for fear of you know, me feeling bad about it
Speaker 1: or something. I'm actually very happy that people get to
Speaker 1: start seeing this because when I'm what we're noticing is
Speaker 1: so many, so many veterans are aligning to this and
Speaker 1: saying this is it Like, screw Hollywood. They never get
Speaker 1: it right. This is where it's at. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think I think if we're doing anything, we're showing
Speaker 1: other veterans, uh, that it's possible to tell your own story,
Speaker 1: and that you should tell your own story and not
Speaker 1: to allow Hollywood to tell it us. Great. And the
Speaker 1: music video that went along with it was I thought
Speaker 1: extremely well done and I thought it fitted perfectly, oh absolutely.
Speaker 1: And you know I mean Brian Brian built that music
Speaker 1: video too with Luke uh, and of course Luke's that
Speaker 1: the singer songwriter for that. But yeah, they all the
Speaker 1: all the music is original music in this film, and
Speaker 1: it was created by Jan dan Strout and Mike Marks
Speaker 1: Gibbons and Luke James Schaefer. Who are you know? Uh,
Speaker 1: Mike is a Mike's a violinist, but he's also he's
Speaker 1: also an Army veteran. Uh and so you know he's
Speaker 1: very close to this project. So when you hear that
Speaker 1: violin throughout the film, just know that that's an Army
Speaker 1: veteran playing that. That's awesome. I have to ask you
Speaker 1: how many pairs of boots did you go through? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good one. I went through seven pairs of shoes. Wow,
Speaker 1: all right, without without giving free advertising. Was there one
Speaker 1: specific brand that you are wearing? Uh? Yeah, it starts
Speaker 1: with an M. I know exactly which one you're saying.
Speaker 1: I actually have seven pairs of those that begin with
Speaker 1: the names. Yeah. Absolutely, that's great. A John, I really
Speaker 1: want to thank you for taking the time with us today.
Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. We appreciate all you're doing because
Speaker 1: you know, when with Memorial Day right around the corner,
Speaker 1: you know, this is a time when we think about
Speaker 1: our veterans who we've lost. PTSD is such a big
Speaker 1: issue right now with all branches of the service and
Speaker 1: as we all know that we're losing too many veterans
Speaker 1: a suicide every day. And and this is a story
Speaker 1: I think that will you know, resonate with our veteran
Speaker 1: community and people know that there's help out there, because
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, your story is one of it's
Speaker 1: it's about healing, but it's it's uh to me, it's
Speaker 1: more about hope. Yeah, yeah, brother, And you know, thanks
Speaker 1: for having me today and thanks for allowing me the
Speaker 1: time to talk and to kind of share my I
Speaker 1: guess my my my abilities or my my desires with
Speaker 1: you on this film and on you know, going forward
Speaker 1: and helping veterans. Uh, And it is it is truly
Speaker 1: a story about hope and that you know, if you
Speaker 1: you know, just wake up another day, man and just
Speaker 1: put your feet on the ground and do something. And
Speaker 1: I promise you it gets better. And you know that's
Speaker 1: I had to. I don't suggest you walks to go
Speaker 1: find that out, but if it's if that's you know,
Speaker 1: if that's something you want to do, I'll support you
Speaker 1: in it. But uh, you know, find something that you're
Speaker 1: passionate about and and do it again, and don't give
Speaker 1: a shit about anybody else and what they think of it.
Speaker 1: Go figure yourself out by you know, allowing yourself to
Speaker 1: do the thing you want to do. And that's really
Speaker 1: all it is for me, man, and mine. Mine is
Speaker 1: walking and talking. And you know, for other eyes it's
Speaker 1: it's a gym, or other guys it's you know, from
Speaker 1: rock climbing or whatever it is. But I can tell
Speaker 1: you that the thing that I've learned about myself and
Speaker 1: about every other veteran who has made it out of
Speaker 1: the darkness is you have to do something physical every day.
Speaker 1: You have to put yourself in a position and where
Speaker 1: you sweat and build that sweat equity for yourself and
Speaker 1: it helps. And you know, if I can leave anybody
Speaker 1: with that, it's you know, go just go outside and
Speaker 1: walk around some beautiful areas, some you know, national park
Speaker 1: or national wilderness, and I promise you'll feel better. That's awesome. Well,
Speaker 1: hats off to you, John, I mean, like I said,
Speaker 1: we really appreciate the time and that. That is a
Speaker 1: fantastic story. Folks. Please check it out Bastard's Road. It's
Speaker 1: it's available and all those streaming services. Uh not only television.
Speaker 1: You can download it on your computer, so it's definitely
Speaker 1: worth the time, you know, with Memorial Day right around
Speaker 1: the corner, I can't think of a better time to
Speaker 1: check it out. But from all of us here at
Speaker 1: soft reap dot com, we want to thank you all
Speaker 1: for listening. But before we go, you know, if you
Speaker 1: want to get soft repp on your phone, download our
Speaker 1: free mobile app and get easy access to articles, podcast
Speaker 1: gear reviews, all perfectly formatted to your device. Please subscribe
Speaker 1: to softwap dot com to get access to all our
Speaker 1: library of e books and our exclusive team room forms
Speaker 1: and content available on all Apple and Android devices. John,
Speaker 1: thanks again for taking the time with us. This was
Speaker 1: fantastic and congratulations on a job very well done. Thanks
Speaker 1: absolutely you have a wonderful day and enjoy your Memorial
Speaker 1: Day you too. All right, brother, take care you've been
Speaker 1: listening to self red Radio