Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff
Speaker 1: I've never told your production. I heart radio. This might
Speaker 1: be a difficult question to answer, Samantha, but do you
Speaker 1: remember when you learned kind of about the spectrum of
Speaker 1: what's sexual identity and gender identity and queerness that it
Speaker 1: was more than you know, gay or straight. Right, Oh,
Speaker 1: that is a really good question. I think I've known
Speaker 1: of it since I've known about sex essentially, but it's
Speaker 1: always been a joke. So we see things as jokes,
Speaker 1: you know, on movies or like if it's a badly placed, childish,
Speaker 1: really offensive type of joke being told in middle school
Speaker 1: that type of way. So I remember, like, the first
Speaker 1: thing I knew about Mormonism, which is not necessarily true
Speaker 1: at all, is polyamorous. They have more than one wife,
Speaker 1: which is not the same indications of what we're talking
Speaker 1: about when it comes to polyamory. We know that, But
Speaker 1: because I was a child growing up in the mountains
Speaker 1: and not understanding it, I knew that existed. I knew
Speaker 1: transgender existed. What did I think about it? Again? It
Speaker 1: became a punch line because it was so inappropriate, and
Speaker 1: I grew up in a very homophobic, backwards, backwoods type
Speaker 1: of home and town. That that's how I knew of it.
Speaker 1: So I say, I knew of what it was felt
Speaker 1: and was told that it was either a punchline or sin.
Speaker 1: And then I didn't understand the truth of it, honestly
Speaker 1: until probably when I say truth of it, the realities
Speaker 1: and that that these are people and they have this
Speaker 1: whole underlying of what these things are and or how
Speaker 1: you may identify and why you might identify, literally until
Speaker 1: probably not until high school when I met people from
Speaker 1: very young age knowing who they were and they've always
Speaker 1: identified this way, that this is how they were born,
Speaker 1: and realizing oh, this is part of their like not
Speaker 1: just identity, but who they are, just like as I
Speaker 1: am identifying as heterosexual, that I've never necessarily found attraction
Speaker 1: to any other gender. That has never been a thing
Speaker 1: for me until like, Oh, but if you look at
Speaker 1: the spectrum of it and the reality of it and
Speaker 1: the complications of what love truly means, m h. That
Speaker 1: I don't think I really understood it until I started
Speaker 1: to kind of grasp in high school and then into
Speaker 1: my formative years, even learning the fine details, not even
Speaker 1: the details, but the depth of it, even toil our
Speaker 1: episode of sexuality and being called out and being like, oh,
Speaker 1: you don't understand quite as much as you think you do.
Speaker 1: Here we go. So I think it's the very long
Speaker 1: winded answer is I'm still learning. That is a good answer.
Speaker 1: I think I think a lot of us are, and
Speaker 1: I think it's a society we are. I I've told
Speaker 1: my story before, Like I remember learning what bisexual was
Speaker 1: and I was in middle school. Was X Files based realization,
Speaker 1: but beyond that, it was really working on this show
Speaker 1: that I learned about other like a sexual or transgender.
Speaker 1: And I think there were things that kind of like you,
Speaker 1: I knew, but I didn't necessarily know the terminology are
Speaker 1: much more about it beyond that, right, And I remember
Speaker 1: specifically when I learned a sexual. I was outside of college.
Speaker 1: I was working on the show. But somebody, my little
Speaker 1: brother said he was dating someone and she said she
Speaker 1: was a sexual, and somebody responded jokingly, that means she
Speaker 1: just doesn't want to have sex with you, And that
Speaker 1: was one of the first like jries I had at
Speaker 1: that term of yeah, people being really dismissive of it
Speaker 1: and doubting that it was real and I've learned so
Speaker 1: much being on this show. Uh, And as you listeners know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of been a couple of years from me
Speaker 1: where I'm figuring out how I identify and and I
Speaker 1: remember with some I love it. Some of your listeners
Speaker 1: shrode in it's like it sounds like you're a sexual
Speaker 1: but bio romantic, and somebody sent me all these terms,
Speaker 1: like seventeen terms like DAVI sexual. I've never heard of
Speaker 1: it before, and I was looking at all up like
Speaker 1: oh wow, and how validating it felt, and how kind
Speaker 1: of a relief. I was like, Oh, yeah, there is
Speaker 1: all of this and you can It is a spectrum
Speaker 1: and it is fluid, and just feeling so relieved at
Speaker 1: that knowledge that I think I had always known. I
Speaker 1: just didn't have the terminology or the kind of community
Speaker 1: behind it. So thank you listeners were young, supportive. I
Speaker 1: love it. Yeah, I've loved it too, and I'm still
Speaker 1: working through things. And I agree with the listeners who
Speaker 1: have written and said Pandemic has been an interesting time
Speaker 1: for having those questions about gender identity and sexual identity,
Speaker 1: and also just because I have to I I've learned
Speaker 1: a lot through fan fiction. I will say the fan
Speaker 1: fiction recently has gotten real open about all these different
Speaker 1: like labels or not having labels, and just huge variety
Speaker 1: that wasn't there when I was reading fan fiction. So
Speaker 1: I'm very happy to see that learning new things through
Speaker 1: fan fiction. Yes, sometimes good, sometimes not. But because it
Speaker 1: is Pride Butts, we did want to bring back this
Speaker 1: episode on the A b C's of being a sexual,
Speaker 1: so please enjoy. Hey, this is Annie. Hey, I'm Samantha,
Speaker 1: and welcome to Steph. I've never told your protection of
Speaker 1: I Hire Radio's house networks. So we're kind of doing
Speaker 1: one of our we we love an arc around here,
Speaker 1: like a mini series, and we're doing one on sexuality. Yes,
Speaker 1: and lately, y'all know that I've been struggling to nail
Speaker 1: down my sexuality, which is really fun. As a thirty
Speaker 1: year old woman, I gotta say and specifically whether or
Speaker 1: not I'm a sexual And it's it's funny because Pete
Speaker 1: behind the curtains, we recorded this interview that we're about
Speaker 1: to play for you about a sexuality the same day
Speaker 1: we did an interview about bondage yea that goes hand
Speaker 1: in hand. Yeah, yeah, well it's all part of this art.
Speaker 1: It is. To talk about this, we brought in Agua Danzo,
Speaker 1: who has written about her experience of being an ace
Speaker 1: as it's often shortened to in teen Vogue, and she
Speaker 1: also works on a podcast called About South podcast that
Speaker 1: you should all totally check out. So let's get right
Speaker 1: into it. So I am Adua Dance So also known
Speaker 1: as Joe Dance So. Um that's a nickname with the
Speaker 1: storied history and Um. I have a background in journalistic writing,
Speaker 1: born and raised in Atlanta. Previously worked at Creative Loathing,
Speaker 1: and I currently work at ca U s a not
Speaker 1: the nanny ng and home care site, but the UH
Speaker 1: the inventor of the care package that currently works to
Speaker 1: eradicate global poverty by empowering women and girls. Um. I'm
Speaker 1: on the social media team there. Yeah. Um. And a
Speaker 1: couple of months ago, we had a friend of mine,
Speaker 1: Sono Vashi, on to talk about um Asian American identity
Speaker 1: and afterwards I picked her brain of like who should
Speaker 1: I talk to in Atlanta and she recommended you for
Speaker 1: um a couple of things actually, because she said you
Speaker 1: have very funny takes on pop culture, which I am intrigued,
Speaker 1: which I have a lot of advanture I think you
Speaker 1: and I could vant are really well, that could be fun,
Speaker 1: but I won't. I won't put that there now, but
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that's a future episode. Yes, pop culture
Speaker 1: banter always welcome. But also, UM, a sexuality, which is
Speaker 1: you you wrote a piece for teen Vogue about your
Speaker 1: your experience. Yeah yeah, so, UM, I am a sexual
Speaker 1: and that does not mean that I recreate or procreate
Speaker 1: with myself. That would be UM. Basically, a sexuals exists
Speaker 1: outside the standard spectrum of sexuality and sexual attraction. So
Speaker 1: we are all taught that, like, you are sexually attracted
Speaker 1: to people, and like that's what you do. UM. And
Speaker 1: I basically had a light bulb moment where I was like, wait,
Speaker 1: what you guys experienced and what I experienced are not
Speaker 1: the same thing at all, And it sent me into
Speaker 1: a Google spiral. I think I was like twenty three
Speaker 1: when I found out, so I was like, wait, no,
Speaker 1: how did I miss this? Um? I actually had a
Speaker 1: sexual friend when I was a teenager, and it did
Speaker 1: not click at all that UM, she and I had
Speaker 1: more in common than other people that I was friends with.
Speaker 1: And UM, basically, there are a lot of people in
Speaker 1: the world who will just look at another person and
Speaker 1: know that they want to have sex with that person.
Speaker 1: Maybe after a conversation they know maybe they like see
Speaker 1: them at the coffee shop every day and they know
Speaker 1: that's not me. I don't feel comfortable saying that I've
Speaker 1: ever had sexual attraction toward someone in the way that
Speaker 1: the majority of people do. UM. So, like, even when
Speaker 1: you like watch TV shows and stuff and you're like, man,
Speaker 1: they started having sex like really fast, like Derek and
Speaker 1: Meredith on Grey's Anatomy One night Stands, I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't understand. How do you just like have sex
Speaker 1: with somebody like you don't have like questions about them? First? Um,
Speaker 1: I've that is not my experience. And UM, while there
Speaker 1: are a sexuals who do have things that line up
Speaker 1: with the norm or varied experiences across the spectrum, the
Speaker 1: gist is that there are what I call sexual people
Speaker 1: and then there are people who don't experience it in
Speaker 1: the same way. And I am under that umbrella. Um,
Speaker 1: would you mind expounding more on that that lightbulb moment?
Speaker 1: Trying to remember exactly what the moment was. Um, it
Speaker 1: was kind of a series of conversations, but one in
Speaker 1: particular was with one of my old roommates in college
Speaker 1: where we would just like be up at night talking
Speaker 1: about like relationships and stuff like that. You know, like
Speaker 1: when you're like an ambitious young black woman and they're like,
Speaker 1: no people who match your vibe. You're just kind of like, oh,
Speaker 1: it'll come later, right. And then I graduated and she
Speaker 1: still lived in the dorm and she sent me a
Speaker 1: photo of the lgbt Q History month board and the
Speaker 1: definition of a sexuality on that board and was like,
Speaker 1: you might be a sexual l O L. And I
Speaker 1: was like, con I know what a sexuality is, Like,
Speaker 1: that's not me. And then I read the definitions and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that is me. Um, And so
Speaker 1: I started googling, and like things just started clicking and
Speaker 1: making sense. And the best analogy that I have for
Speaker 1: like that moment is, uh, the spoiler alert episode of
Speaker 1: How I Met Your Mother when Ted dating a woman
Speaker 1: who ends up being like a huge talker and at
Speaker 1: the end she's dating a deaf guy who doesn't notice
Speaker 1: that she talks a whole lot. But throughout the episode,
Speaker 1: each person in the group like realizes something about somebody
Speaker 1: else in the group, and it's like glass shattering place
Speaker 1: above their head. And that's like what it felt like
Speaker 1: for me. I was like, no, like the world is crashing,
Speaker 1: Like how how did I get this far in my
Speaker 1: life and never have this kind of knowledge, especially because
Speaker 1: I've my primary identity primary and quotation marks, Um, I'm black.
Speaker 1: You can like see it like really clearly. So primary
Speaker 1: um is being queer. Like I identified as bisexual for
Speaker 1: several years, I still kind of do depending on the day.
Speaker 1: And UM, I was just kind of like shocked that
Speaker 1: like somebody is like in tune and like knowledgeable and
Speaker 1: conscious and like paying attention as I am did not
Speaker 1: know this thing. Yeah, and I kind of alluded to
Speaker 1: it in our communications, But as I have done this podcast,
Speaker 1: I've had a similar realization. It's it's so fun to
Speaker 1: be researching something, um, And I say phone not sarcastically,
Speaker 1: but also I don't know if that's the best word,
Speaker 1: but to be researching something and to be like, huh oh,
Speaker 1: maybe that describes me um. And so listeners have had
Speaker 1: the fun time of being with me on this journey
Speaker 1: of is any sexual I mean, and let's just have
Speaker 1: that conversation, is why do you feel like this is
Speaker 1: something that or a does it feel like it kind
Speaker 1: of was a relief to understand yourself a little more
Speaker 1: in that way. Yeah, it definitely flipped my world upside down,
Speaker 1: but it was a huge relief. Um. Before I learned
Speaker 1: what a sexuality is and that it fit for me,
Speaker 1: I was like really concerned. I was like, is there
Speaker 1: something wrong with me? And I like represhing some childhood
Speaker 1: sexual trauma, like, au, is there like a reason for
Speaker 1: why I haven't um been on the same like wavelength
Speaker 1: that's my peers in terms of relationships and stuff like that. Um,
Speaker 1: And then finding out I was a sexual I was like, oh, cool,
Speaker 1: there's my answer. Um. But at the same time, there
Speaker 1: is the part that's like still kind of unknown. There
Speaker 1: are a lot of people who don't believe in a
Speaker 1: sexuality or don't think that they would even be willing
Speaker 1: to be in a relationship with an a sexual person.
Speaker 1: And uh, those are the kinds of things where like,
Speaker 1: don't read the comments is like really real, because you
Speaker 1: know what you're gonna get in the comments there, Like
Speaker 1: after like three or four different comments sections, you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: there's clearly, uh, like line of thought that's connecting all
Speaker 1: of these things and it does not serve me, so
Speaker 1: I should probably just not look at it. Um But
Speaker 1: I speak in metaphors, so I have a metaphor for this,
Speaker 1: of course, and I've thought about it a lot. Like
Speaker 1: the metaphor that I'm giving here is not the same
Speaker 1: one that's in my Team Vogue piece, and it is
Speaker 1: not the same one that was in the first draft.
Speaker 1: But just bear with me. So, I'm a huge Top
Speaker 1: Chef fan, and Richard Blaze of Top Chef, uh he
Speaker 1: opened Flip Burger in Atlanta and had wanted to go
Speaker 1: for years and watching the show, everybody always like did
Speaker 1: like their tartars, like steak tartar, and he had a
Speaker 1: steake tartar burger on the menu, and I'm like, cool,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go for my birthday and I want the
Speaker 1: steak tartar burger. And I get there and I take
Speaker 1: a bite and it makes me nauseated. Immediately, I was like, no,
Speaker 1: I can't enjoy this food that I've always wanted to enjoy.
Speaker 1: That is my worst case scenario basically, So it's yet
Speaker 1: to be determined, but um, yeah, I can't imagine. Like
Speaker 1: I consider myself very like sex positive person. I'm like uh,
Speaker 1: pro like female orgasm, pro like sex toys, whatever you need?
Speaker 1: Very anti like, uh, what is it? They say? Uh,
Speaker 1: parts not hearts. I feel like that's I don't subscribe
Speaker 1: to parts over hearts. Um and I feel I need
Speaker 1: someone to explain that to me. What is this? I
Speaker 1: was trying to pretend like that was going to be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but what parts not hards? I've not heard this, So
Speaker 1: it's basically a way of saying, uh, don't be transphobic
Speaker 1: in your selection of a partner. Like, just because you
Speaker 1: meet a woman who has a penis or a man
Speaker 1: who has a vagina does not mean that, like you
Speaker 1: guys cannot still find sexual satisfaction enjoy not with one
Speaker 1: of Okay, that makes more sense. I'm not gonna have
Speaker 1: never heard that impression. Keep going. Um so yeah, I like,
Speaker 1: I feel like this very sex positive person I tell
Speaker 1: people like, in my mind I could be Samantha from
Speaker 1: Sex in the City, but in reality I'm like the opposite.
Speaker 1: Um And so I hope that like there will be
Speaker 1: a world in which people like understand what a sexuality
Speaker 1: is and that like there is uh as much as
Speaker 1: no means no, which it does, there is flexibility among
Speaker 1: a sexual people. So there are a sexuals who form
Speaker 1: a sexual attraction once they've formed a romantic attraction or
Speaker 1: once they've formed an emotional attraction. There's some people who
Speaker 1: will be like a sexual for years and then um
Speaker 1: just aren't. There are a sexual people who are sex
Speaker 1: averse and some who are like I don't really get
Speaker 1: the deal with sex, but I do it anyway. Um. Actually,
Speaker 1: Lane Kim from Gilmore Girls is potentially an ACE icon.
Speaker 1: It is not it's not Cannon, I don't think, but um,
Speaker 1: she famously like waits to have sex because she's been
Speaker 1: like brought up in strong Christian beliefs and it's like
Speaker 1: basically terrified of what happened if her mom caught her
Speaker 1: having sex. And so she gets married and has sex
Speaker 1: on the honeymoon and she comes back and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know what you guys were talking about, Like
Speaker 1: that was kind of like really awful, Like you guys
Speaker 1: were clearly this was all a conspiracy to keep me
Speaker 1: from having sex. Everybody like talking about how great it was. Um,
Speaker 1: And I don't know that there are many other ACE
Speaker 1: icons like that, But the caveat with Lane is that, um,
Speaker 1: you're not necessarily sex a verse if you are a
Speaker 1: sexual And the other split there that was like mind
Speaker 1: blowing for me is that there are people who are
Speaker 1: romantically attracted and people who are sexually attracted. And I
Speaker 1: was kind of like, oh, we're taught that, like we're
Speaker 1: basically socialized that all girls are romantically attracted to every
Speaker 1: person they have sex with, and that's why I like,
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have sex because he'll break your heart and
Speaker 1: leave you. But everyone experiences romantic attraction and sexual attraction
Speaker 1: or exists on that spectrum. There are people who don't
Speaker 1: experience romantic attraction or sexual attraction. There's some who have
Speaker 1: one but not the other. Um. I like to think
Speaker 1: of the people who find romantic long term relationships with
Speaker 1: the opposite sex even though they are homosexual or well,
Speaker 1: I guess that's the only other option really. Um. But
Speaker 1: like those old episodes of Oprah where she's like, how
Speaker 1: could you be with this woman for forty five years
Speaker 1: if you're gay, and it's like, well, maybe he was
Speaker 1: romantically attracted to her, or even just platonically attracted to
Speaker 1: her and not sexually attracted to her, or vice versa,
Speaker 1: or none of the above, Like this is really just
Speaker 1: turned everything upside down. Is I'm like everything applies everywhere
Speaker 1: and nothing means everything. One thing I loved about your
Speaker 1: your piece and teen Vogue is, um, you're talking about
Speaker 1: the questions you get and then kind of for yourself
Speaker 1: still working through what like someone would ask you something
Speaker 1: and then you have to kind of think about it, like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: what does that mean? Um? Can you talk more about
Speaker 1: what your experience has been around that and maybe some
Speaker 1: questions you get frequently and misconceptions things like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the number one misconception I would say is that a
Speaker 1: sexuals are sex averse and just like not interested in
Speaker 1: sex in any capacity, which like I'm a picture of
Speaker 1: like it not being true like worst case scenarios that
Speaker 1: like in five years, I'm like, oh no, that a
Speaker 1: sexuality thing was totally just like a blip, like it
Speaker 1: didn't even happen. Um, But no, I feel very strongly that, um,
Speaker 1: what is true today may not be true and ten years,
Speaker 1: and that I can still identify as a sexual the
Speaker 1: whole time. But um, people do often ask uh, like
Speaker 1: just basically like how does that work? Or like why
Speaker 1: is it like that? It's almost like I'm a little
Speaker 1: bit of a science experiment to other people and to myself.
Speaker 1: And I really only learned about myself through talking to
Speaker 1: other people because like everything for me is normal until
Speaker 1: I say it out loud. Um. One thing that I
Speaker 1: didn't mention in the piece was sexual fantasies and how
Speaker 1: like like, wait, that's like a thing that everybody does, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but um, mine aren't like everybody else's. Like for me,
Speaker 1: it's very weird and uncomfortable to fantasize about like a
Speaker 1: real person I've met, And no, I'm like, wait, isn't
Speaker 1: that like a violation of like their privacy and comfort?
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, I feel like I need like
Speaker 1: consent to fantasize about you. And then also, um, fantasizing
Speaker 1: about somebody and like seeing them and looking at them
Speaker 1: in the face the next day, Like isn't that weird?
Speaker 1: Like somebody's gonna have to Uh, your listeners should like
Speaker 1: let me know and like, yes, please share all of
Speaker 1: your sexual fits let the endbox. Um. I think other
Speaker 1: people kind of want to know, like how does a
Speaker 1: sexuality fit with the rest of like the queer alphabet?
Speaker 1: Like can you be a sexual and gay and a
Speaker 1: sexual and strain and a sexual and like attracted to
Speaker 1: different genders, and the answers yes, Um, they exist in
Speaker 1: parallel with each other. So like how somebody you can
Speaker 1: be a sexual and trans and homosexual all at the
Speaker 1: same time. Um, there's no I mean, I've I really
Speaker 1: want to like talk to like a straight a sexual
Speaker 1: guy because I have no idea like what that experience
Speaker 1: would be like. And I just wonder how like they
Speaker 1: are socialized versus me. That would be an interesting because
Speaker 1: I know there's many times where I've had conversations with
Speaker 1: people about um, heatero sexual then and they're not sexual,
Speaker 1: and you start questioning, well, they're just gay, Like the
Speaker 1: automatic assumption is they're gay. Um, And there's a couple
Speaker 1: of moments I'm like, I think they're actually a sexual.
Speaker 1: I think there may be a whole different concept to this. Um,
Speaker 1: And you're right. I don't know if I've known many
Speaker 1: or been any instances what I've heard hetero sexual man
Speaker 1: say I'm a sexual. The only ones that like, the
Speaker 1: one that comes to the mind immediately is Jim Parson's
Speaker 1: character and big thingg theory. But he's like, oh, he's
Speaker 1: a sexual because he's like on the autism spectrum and
Speaker 1: like super intelligent, like that's what an a sky looks like.
Speaker 1: And it's like, no, uh, I am not particularly like
Speaker 1: gifted in the maths and sciences, and I find myself
Speaker 1: to be like, uh, I'm better in social situations in
Speaker 1: Sheldon is Um, but I like I'm still a sexual.
Speaker 1: Like it's not like it's um a symptom of something
Speaker 1: or like a sign of like a larger mental issue.
Speaker 1: It just kind of is a sexuality has um the
Speaker 1: research of it has roots and like female sexual dysfunction. Right. Um,
Speaker 1: there's this fantastic and infuriating documentary called orgasm Ink that
Speaker 1: I watched not long after I ever lasts a sexual
Speaker 1: and I just kept making my froom may posit like wait,
Speaker 1: but all these things are wrong, Like don't they know
Speaker 1: that there are other ways to answer these questions and
Speaker 1: solve these problems? Um. And the doctor I spoke to
Speaker 1: for my teen folk piece, Laurie Bratto, like she said
Speaker 1: that like that's where it came from, was just like
Speaker 1: not knowing how to really place people's different sexual preferences
Speaker 1: and non preferences, and so it was like, let's just
Speaker 1: study and see if there's something wrong with them, And
Speaker 1: basically it was like, maybe these people just aren't experiencing
Speaker 1: things the way that we're expecting them to. Yeah, are
Speaker 1: you okay? An, So yeah, that's the question. So a
Speaker 1: sexuality began was an eye with an idea like, that's
Speaker 1: your dysfunctional So thatfore you're a sexual if you can't
Speaker 1: have a normal reaction to sex, meaning you're not actually
Speaker 1: um pleasured and or uh, where's the word when you're aroused?
Speaker 1: You're not actually aroused, So that at my for you're
Speaker 1: a sexual, there's for there's something that's like not functional
Speaker 1: about you. Is that the context it was originated? Yeah? Yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: and I was researching earlier today kind of some common
Speaker 1: misconceptions because um, it's estimated that a sexual people or
Speaker 1: you know aces as they sometimes call themselves, as one
Speaker 1: percent of a population. Um. And it's also sometimes called
Speaker 1: the invisible orientation. And um, some of the misconceptions I
Speaker 1: found one, Um, it's not like being in a petri
Speaker 1: dish or how god Zilla procreates Uh yeah, because Godzilla
Speaker 1: procreates a sexually. Another common misconception is it's not an
Speaker 1: abstinate spledge um, which I made this mistake in college
Speaker 1: because I don't know where I was, but they were
Speaker 1: doing this thing like how many people are abstinate? And
Speaker 1: I just stood up in a panic. Like me Later,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, no, not me. This is
Speaker 1: my choice. I don't want sex. It was different than
Speaker 1: like making an abstinence pledge. I'm sorry, keep going. Uh.
Speaker 1: Not a synonym for celibacy, not a disorder, um, not
Speaker 1: a fear of sex. Are relationships you can date, fall
Speaker 1: in love, get married, have kids, masturbate, fantasize, orgasm, all
Speaker 1: those things. It's not caused by a chemical or hormonal imbalance. Um.
Speaker 1: It's not a choice, it's an orientation. Um. And then,
Speaker 1: as some listeners have written in about this since I
Speaker 1: mentioned that I was, you know, wrestling with is me
Speaker 1: the whole idea of corrective rape just now it doesn't work.
Speaker 1: Correct is bad. Oh, it's like you would like sex
Speaker 1: if you had it, even if you don't want to. Oh.
Speaker 1: So like when guys are like, I'm going to make
Speaker 1: you straight from being a lesbian, You okay, Okay, that's
Speaker 1: a born and disgusting in itself. Let's just go ahead
Speaker 1: with that out there. And you are the worst you
Speaker 1: think that in the statement yes, yes, it's just um,
Speaker 1: I mean, are these are these things that you have encountered?
Speaker 1: Are um that you had to think about when you
Speaker 1: were sort of coming to terms with this? Ah, this
Speaker 1: is what I'm a sexual, less in coming to terms
Speaker 1: with it and more in talking to other people because
Speaker 1: like I was in my mid twenties or in early twenties,
Speaker 1: I guess um when I found out. So it was
Speaker 1: like I kind of already knew myself in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways. I knew that I experienced sexual desire. I
Speaker 1: knew that like I wasn't celibate or abstinate, like oh no, sex,
Speaker 1: keep that away from me. It was more just like
Speaker 1: a thing that hadn't presented itself as an opportunity and um.
Speaker 1: But I also knew I wasn't like seeking sex either.
Speaker 1: I used to think that it was like one of
Speaker 1: those like lightbulb moments that would be like, oh, when
Speaker 1: I like hit twenty five, or like when I graduate
Speaker 1: and I'm not like bogged down by school and like
Speaker 1: college students around me, then maybe the light bulb will
Speaker 1: turn on and I'll be ready to go. And then
Speaker 1: I found this out, and I was like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: I guess it's just not in me too for that
Speaker 1: to happen, although you know, never know, could still happen.
Speaker 1: But in like with other people. Yeah, I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm educating people every time I bring it up. And
Speaker 1: it was kind of funny when uh, you invited me here,
Speaker 1: I was like, wait, but I already wrote about it.
Speaker 1: Why do people still have questions? And everybody just like
Speaker 1: googling and finding my words and then like calling it
Speaker 1: a day. Um. But no, people definitely do not know. Uh,
Speaker 1: all of these misconceptions are not things that are real
Speaker 1: phrase people. Yeah, so have you had any of these
Speaker 1: conversations with the head of sexual man Like, has that
Speaker 1: ever been a thing where they questioned and then it
Speaker 1: becomes a whole conversation. No. Um, but that's mostly because
Speaker 1: I don't really like find myself around heterosexual men a
Speaker 1: whole lots their um with like friends and stuff. People
Speaker 1: will like have their questions and I'm usually it's like
Speaker 1: the most open part of me. I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: you guys, like I just learned this cool thing. I
Speaker 1: need to like ask you about it so that I
Speaker 1: can understand it better. And so for probably like a
Speaker 1: year and a half there, Like everybody I met, I
Speaker 1: was like introducing myself and trying not to be like,
Speaker 1: and I'm a sexual and I have questions. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about how you feel about sex. But it does influence
Speaker 1: the way I like look at the world where I like,
Speaker 1: you know, like when there's Derek and Meredith Hungrey is
Speaker 1: anatomy having sex again and I'm like you guys, but
Speaker 1: like he's married, and like I don't understand, like what
Speaker 1: do you see in each other? Or? Uh, this thing
Speaker 1: blew my mind. Like people stay in relationships when the
Speaker 1: partnership sucks, and when the sex sucks. I'm like, what
Speaker 1: are you doing? Leave? Like I cannot imagine, Like you
Speaker 1: are a sex having person and you are choosing to
Speaker 1: like stay with the bad sex. Like what I want
Speaker 1: that term sex having person to be coined for you.
Speaker 1: That's a fantastic a little to my sex having. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like it a lot. I like it a lot.
Speaker 1: I don't want that to be the statement can put
Speaker 1: that in a spectrum. We have some more to discuss
Speaker 1: with you listeners, but first we're gonna pause for a
Speaker 1: quick break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Sponsor. Yeah. I mentioned recently on another podcast
Speaker 1: that for me, when I was growing up, all my
Speaker 1: friends started be attracted to people and talking about how
Speaker 1: much they wanted sex, and I would just be like,
Speaker 1: uh huh yeah, and trying to fit in. It just
Speaker 1: never happened. It never happened for you. It's been the
Speaker 1: last couple of years that you've been able because you've
Speaker 1: tried to have relationships. I had how to force that
Speaker 1: level of like relationships means intimacy, intimacies me designing you
Speaker 1: as a sexual being and I'm like, and you're like,
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. Yeah, that that's been a real
Speaker 1: because we never see representation of a sexuality, Like I
Speaker 1: just assumed, um, and I've always identified as bisexual as well,
Speaker 1: but I just assumed like eventually I would meet the
Speaker 1: person and I would want to have sex with that person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it just never happened. And I thought, well, I've honestly,
Speaker 1: I've gone through a lot of guilt because I cared
Speaker 1: about these people, and I thought, with enough time, I've
Speaker 1: probably will want to have sex with you. And it
Speaker 1: just never happened. And in our society, I think because
Speaker 1: we don't talk about this because we don't see it. Um,
Speaker 1: there is this, especially for women, obligation that you are
Speaker 1: going to give give sex like your that's your duty exactly.
Speaker 1: And I felt horrible about it because I didn't of
Speaker 1: them make you feel bad? No, um, well some people did,
Speaker 1: but they I dumped them, but like exactly right. But
Speaker 1: I did have, um, a couple of relationships that were
Speaker 1: longer term, and they never pressured me, but I still
Speaker 1: could sense it, you know what I mean, Like, and
Speaker 1: I I felt bad because I knew they wanted it,
Speaker 1: and and I didn't know myself little enough to have
Speaker 1: been able to communicate that too, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, that is the other question. How do you
Speaker 1: communicate that with people today that you meet or maybe
Speaker 1: are interested in platonically and or just the emotionally. How
Speaker 1: do you communicate, Hey, I'm a sexual, this is who
Speaker 1: I am. This is like is it just a normal conversation?
Speaker 1: Is the first thing you say? Like what how do
Speaker 1: you do this? So? I actually had dinner with a
Speaker 1: friend and her friend, uh sis hetero woman and a
Speaker 1: SISS hetero man, and we were talking about relationships and stuff,
Speaker 1: and I think the guy asked me like if I
Speaker 1: had ever dated, or like do I date or something?
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh no, I don't do that.
Speaker 1: And my friend was like, but you have to give
Speaker 1: the backstory, and so I was like, here's the backstory.
Speaker 1: I'm a sexual. I'm not interested. Um, usually I just
Speaker 1: say it like that. I'm like, usually nobody knows what
Speaker 1: it means. So I'm like gearing myself up to have
Speaker 1: to explain it. But it's just easier than being like, hey,
Speaker 1: so you know, um, as far as relationships go, I've
Speaker 1: kind of deliberately stayed away from them because I don't
Speaker 1: know how to approach it. I'm like, do I say that?
Speaker 1: Like like when I walk in and we've like we're
Speaker 1: sitting down together and I'm like, hey, hello, I'm a sexual.
Speaker 1: Like like I feel like I need to have like
Speaker 1: a name tag on, put it on like my all
Speaker 1: my social media profiles, Like just so you guys know, um,
Speaker 1: do I assume that like they've googled me beforehand? And
Speaker 1: then like saw, I have no idea? Uh that's yeah,
Speaker 1: that's to be determined. I'll keep you guys updated or
Speaker 1: not again, Like that's not something that you would not
Speaker 1: want to do without a relationship we're talking about in general,
Speaker 1: just an emotional connection, whether it's to go on dates
Speaker 1: or whether it's to have brunch with someone, because sometimes
Speaker 1: for me being new in any kind of relationships in general,
Speaker 1: just like me and I just want someone to go
Speaker 1: with me to brunch and just have a conversation with
Speaker 1: and that's the relationship in itself, which would be nice.
Speaker 1: So I'm assuming that companionship. So how do you even
Speaker 1: approach that? In understanding your all sexuality and being good
Speaker 1: with what you are, but now you've got to share
Speaker 1: it with someone as well. Yeah, I actually do have.
Speaker 1: Um I called them my possibility models because one is
Speaker 1: by and Ace but a demisexual, which is the type
Speaker 1: of a sexuality where you gain sexual attraction after um
Speaker 1: emotional attraction, and she is with a lesbian who she
Speaker 1: described as very much not a sexual. And I'm kind
Speaker 1: of like, well, you guys are like living the life
Speaker 1: you've got, like your house and your four cats, and
Speaker 1: I like, I really want to be just like you guys. Um,
Speaker 1: so I think it's possible. But at the same time
Speaker 1: that that relationship came out of like a long term friendship,
Speaker 1: and so I'm kind of like looking more for my
Speaker 1: friends to like set me up with people they know,
Speaker 1: because like the idea of like swiping and like, oh
Speaker 1: it's ugly. It just feels awful, especially when like everybody's like, oh,
Speaker 1: get on tender and I'm like, isn't that the one
Speaker 1: that people go to explicitly for sex? Like why are
Speaker 1: you telling me? It feels like falls adverage arct. Yeah
Speaker 1: that reminds me of have you seen bow Jack Horseman?
Speaker 1: I haven't, but I heard there's a really great a
Speaker 1: sexual character and yeah, a sexual character and uh in
Speaker 1: the last season, the most recent season, they like develop
Speaker 1: an app for aces to meet other caces. Oh, that
Speaker 1: would be really cool. Yeah, product idea, let's do this y'all.
Speaker 1: Here we go start a business together. Is that like
Speaker 1: aren't the people with that skill set like in this building?
Speaker 1: Would the podcast goes silent? App um? So you mentioned
Speaker 1: INMI sexual, I wonder if you could um off the
Speaker 1: top of your head and if not, that's totally cool.
Speaker 1: But the other types of sexual a sexuality, um, so
Speaker 1: I believe that great a sexual or I think gray
Speaker 1: sexual because words um is when you have sexual attraction sometimes,
Speaker 1: So those would be the people who are like I
Speaker 1: guess like your model a sexual for everybody who is
Speaker 1: not a sexual, be like, oh no, sometimes you are
Speaker 1: interesting in sex. It's not quite like the woman who
Speaker 1: like has migraines a lot, or maybe she does have
Speaker 1: migraines a lot because she doesn't know how to disappoint
Speaker 1: you by telling that she does not want to have
Speaker 1: sex with it, but the sex with bad, where the
Speaker 1: sex with you is bad, Stop having bad sex you guys, Like,
Speaker 1: why why are people who's not doing it sex? If
Speaker 1: you're bad at it, get better the next episode. Um.
Speaker 1: And then there is auto chorus sexual or ed geo
Speaker 1: sexual a e g o sexual um, which is sexual
Speaker 1: attraction that's kind of like detached. And that's kind of
Speaker 1: what I experienced. So like when I say, don't fantasize
Speaker 1: about people I actually know, it's also like not me
Speaker 1: in the phantom see either, I don't know something about
Speaker 1: it just feels like really weird and gross and personal. Um.
Speaker 1: So I guess it would be like when people read
Speaker 1: erotic fiction and they're like identifying with the characters, but
Speaker 1: they're not like the character themselves. It's kind of like that.
Speaker 1: It's really weird when you have one of those moments
Speaker 1: and then you see them in real life you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that is not how I picked her. Due now it
Speaker 1: just killed everything. No, I don't totally. I'm totally I'm
Speaker 1: following you. Another another pop culture reference. I don't know
Speaker 1: how many I have left before my card is full.
Speaker 1: But Angela Chase on My Soul called Life, she I
Speaker 1: need to go back and rewatch the series to determine
Speaker 1: for sure whether or not she counts as an a sicon,
Speaker 1: But she has a lot of thoughts about like making out.
Speaker 1: When she starts making out with Jordan Catalano, she's like amaze.
Speaker 1: She's like I can't believe that this is like a
Speaker 1: thing that we're doing, and like she's very focused on
Speaker 1: like it as part of her life versus everything else
Speaker 1: that's going on. And then there's this like great scene
Speaker 1: where she's talking about like I can't believe people just
Speaker 1: like have sex, Like they just like do it with
Speaker 1: each other, Like my teacher like he probably had sex yesterday,
Speaker 1: and like this other teacher also probably did and like
Speaker 1: isn't that weird that we all just kind of like
Speaker 1: do it and like that's just it? And I was like, yes,
Speaker 1: Angela and you. That's so weird. I connect. I connect
Speaker 1: with this um there there was When I was looking
Speaker 1: into some research, I found the term queer platonic, which
Speaker 1: is people who experience a type of non romantic relationship
Speaker 1: where there is an intense emotional connection that goes beyond
Speaker 1: a traditional friendship. And when I read that, I was like,
Speaker 1: I have experienced that before. What's the what's the past
Speaker 1: a traditional friendship? Is that? Like? I think it's for
Speaker 1: me the way I interpreted it, in the way that
Speaker 1: the relationship I'm connecting it to. People look at us
Speaker 1: and said you are in love of I was like,
Speaker 1: we are not, um, but it was more than a friendship.
Speaker 1: Like we just experienced such an intense connection and there
Speaker 1: was never any possibility of sex, neither of us and
Speaker 1: I am very I have a very bad track record
Speaker 1: with this, but I know this for sure in this
Speaker 1: relationship because we discussed it. Also, he was gay. That
Speaker 1: makes that that's the same question for me, Like what
Speaker 1: goes from beyond Oh, we're best friends too? Queer platonic,
Speaker 1: I think because for me, um, most of the time
Speaker 1: I'm with a best friend me. Yes, it doesn't have
Speaker 1: the same level of like emotional intensity it has. It
Speaker 1: does have an emotional intensity, but it's not like the
Speaker 1: same thing where people look at you and there like
Speaker 1: I mean, people would tell me you were the same
Speaker 1: side of the coin, like you you two are meant
Speaker 1: to be together, like no, we're not UM. But I
Speaker 1: did experience it, like I felt, I imagine that's the
Speaker 1: closest I'm ever going to feel to what traditional love
Speaker 1: is UM in my lifetime. But I could be wrong.
Speaker 1: I think in this in my example in particular, and
Speaker 1: this is obviously very personal to me, but it was
Speaker 1: something where I could recognize, like this is perhaps the
Speaker 1: clinical thing that people feel. There's no I never wanted
Speaker 1: to date, like I didn't want sex, but I did
Speaker 1: feel that like I need to be with this person,
Speaker 1: I need to talk to this person like all the time,
Speaker 1: just all the time. And he felt it too, and
Speaker 1: it was a very strong UM connection that we made.
Speaker 1: And actually UM the story behind my tattoo, which I
Speaker 1: won't get into now, but it is quite the story. UM.
Speaker 1: So just when I read that, I felt, I've had
Speaker 1: so many people from the outside look at that relationship
Speaker 1: and tell me you were in love, And I kept
Speaker 1: trying to express I wasn't, or at least not in
Speaker 1: the way that you mean it. Um, but I can
Speaker 1: I can understand looking from that side. I just I
Speaker 1: knew the feeling myself, and I was very confident in
Speaker 1: like we might have loved each other, but we weren't
Speaker 1: and wild right, that makes sense to be a research
Speaker 1: queer platonic a little more. Should just like a like
Speaker 1: a Will in Greece. Hyll with you on that one? Yeah,
Speaker 1: the will you have a baby with me, but we're
Speaker 1: not together together. Yeah. I haven't seen All Grace a
Speaker 1: long time, but I'll have to. I don't think I've
Speaker 1: ever watched more than two episodes. Mm hmm. That's because
Speaker 1: growing up I just never watched TV as much m hm.
Speaker 1: And that that was the era I didn't watch a
Speaker 1: lot of TV. Because I'm trying to relate, I can't
Speaker 1: now I know more. I will say that. But Will
Speaker 1: and Grace was not in my forte I'm trying to
Speaker 1: think of when what years were those, like early two
Speaker 1: thousand's to late two thousands. That was being religious, Yes,
Speaker 1: that was me being religious, and I'm like, I'm not
Speaker 1: watching TV. I watched religion. Princess Bride was my go
Speaker 1: to what princess Bride? Yeah, that's I almost got really
Speaker 1: disheartened with you when you just say about princess bride. Okay,
Speaker 1: now I got you. Okay, all right, we're okay. Now, okay, good,
Speaker 1: We're okay. We have a little bit more for you listeners,
Speaker 1: but first we have one more quick break for words
Speaker 1: from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor. Um. So,
Speaker 1: I was looking at this website where it was like
Speaker 1: how to tell if you're a sexual and essentially if
Speaker 1: you don't experience sexual attraction. That's pretty good. First question
Speaker 1: to ask, um, would you have any advice for people
Speaker 1: who are maybe newly discovering that they're a sexual or
Speaker 1: maybe questions they can ask themselves to find out if
Speaker 1: they are if they think they might be. Now I
Speaker 1: want to do like are you a spango or something?
Speaker 1: That'd be awesome. I want to encourage that. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna say that, please play games. I love games.
Speaker 1: Keep going. Um, I would say, definitely talk to the
Speaker 1: people around you, like your friends, about like when they're
Speaker 1: in relationships with people and how they feel about the
Speaker 1: person there with versus how you feel. Because, like I said,
Speaker 1: everything was normal until I found out it wasn't. And
Speaker 1: I guess pay attention to like TV shows and how
Speaker 1: relationships are presented there, and like thee that feeling of
Speaker 1: like the natural progression of our relationship leading to sex,
Speaker 1: And are you kind of like, yeah, I buy this,
Speaker 1: Like I totally like that's how I feel about the
Speaker 1: person I'm with, or you kind of like I don't
Speaker 1: get why every relationship is like ending its sex. Can
Speaker 1: we just like watch people like hang out, we watch
Speaker 1: people to be queerly platonic together? Yes, Um, that's the
Speaker 1: brand new sitcom queerly platonic that's gonna beyond the channel.
Speaker 1: The ideas in this episode CINGO clearly botonic. I mean
Speaker 1: that is amazing. I I have to say, like, I
Speaker 1: grew up in a very small town and it was
Speaker 1: very conservative, and so I just wasn't exposed to a
Speaker 1: lot of different and a lot of us aren't through
Speaker 1: media anyway, but I wasn't exposed to a lot of
Speaker 1: different relationships. And every time I see one like odd
Speaker 1: on bow Jack Horsemen, it's just the most amazing thing.
Speaker 1: So I can't believe it took this long to see
Speaker 1: something like this. Um, do you have since you are
Speaker 1: so into pop culture, have you given several examples already,
Speaker 1: But do you have any other ace icons as you've
Speaker 1: been calling them? Not really I look for them every
Speaker 1: and then they have sex and it's like and it's
Speaker 1: like their whole life changes. Like on Riverdale, Jugead um
Speaker 1: was I still can't figure out at what point he
Speaker 1: was declared a sexual and if it was supposed to
Speaker 1: be like Jugead in the comics or Junkhead in the show.
Speaker 1: But if he's supposed to be a sexual in the show,
Speaker 1: they completely botched it because they have not addressed anything
Speaker 1: around sex. And then his relationship with Betty. Sorry spoilers.
Speaker 1: I guess um they are just like any other team
Speaker 1: couple and have sex and like for like an episode
Speaker 1: before and a few episodes after. I was just kind
Speaker 1: of like waiting for them to like address it, and
Speaker 1: nobody ever did. Um. Yeah, most of actually like googled
Speaker 1: to see like um to like jog my memory and
Speaker 1: see if there was somebody I was missing. And Todd
Speaker 1: from BoJack Horseman was the only one who anybody could
Speaker 1: agree was like actually a sexual and not like on
Speaker 1: the spectrum or otherwise like had other reasons for not
Speaker 1: being interested in sex or uh sex averse or just
Speaker 1: like somebody who never had sex. Like somebody put out
Speaker 1: there that Dumbledore is a sexual and I was like,
Speaker 1: come on, you guys, like that's not just not seeing
Speaker 1: somebody have sex. It's not a sexual. And if somebody
Speaker 1: were to be a sexual and then Icon it would
Speaker 1: be McGonagall, like, let's be real. Then you would say
Speaker 1: her in Dumbledoors relationship could be clearly platonic. It's all
Speaker 1: coming together. We just did it, and we have brought
Speaker 1: another Harry Potter reference. You're welcome Annie once per episode. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so right now, I would say YouTube are ace Icon
Speaker 1: very like, I am so new to this, but I
Speaker 1: think because you're asking the right questions and you're having
Speaker 1: this conversation and you're making it a very clear as
Speaker 1: well as the fact that there's a spectrum. You too,
Speaker 1: in my humble opinion, are a psychon. Well, thank you.
Speaker 1: If I had an award for you, I'll give you one,
Speaker 1: so pretend like I did. Thank you, so beautiful, shiny,
Speaker 1: it's so big. Sorry, Um, yeah, I feel I mean
Speaker 1: there's a lot to unpack in our media. Always we
Speaker 1: come back to that but just I do think that, um,
Speaker 1: every time man and women are on screen together, they
Speaker 1: have to have sex eventually, and it's very right. Well,
Speaker 1: that's also like the sad part of any kind of
Speaker 1: friends shows the fact that opposite sex when they're together,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to have sex to lesbians can't be
Speaker 1: just friends. They're going to have sex as well. Or
Speaker 1: two homosexual men they're going to have sex as well,
Speaker 1: even though they may just be flipping friends. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: everything has to do with sex apparently in our media. Yes,
Speaker 1: But the fact is that having conversations like this to
Speaker 1: be able to um go beyond generalizations as well as
Speaker 1: understanding that there are people that are seen like that's
Speaker 1: the biggest part is can I be seen and you
Speaker 1: two are those sort of like I see you because
Speaker 1: I am you, And that is a bigger part of
Speaker 1: the conversation that needs to happen. Whether it's you writing
Speaker 1: an article in teen Boat, which is fantastic because that's
Speaker 1: such a big medium in itself, as well as doing
Speaker 1: podcasts specifically specifically two girls about Hey, it's okay, you're
Speaker 1: not just here for sex and if you don't feel
Speaker 1: sex with attraction, that's okay. Too. Yeah, because that is
Speaker 1: another common misconception, um that people report feeling broken because
Speaker 1: they don't because it is. Um. Like I said, when
Speaker 1: my friends all were experiencing it and I wasn't, I
Speaker 1: thought something must be wrong. Um, And yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: it's on the spectrum. It's something and you can experience
Speaker 1: it in many different ways. You can never romantic attraction.
Speaker 1: You could sometimes be attracted. UM. So I'm very glad
Speaker 1: that you you came on, you agreed to come on
Speaker 1: and talk to us. Yeah. Yeah, I'm open for all
Speaker 1: any and all a sexuality questions because apparently there's nobody
Speaker 1: else out here taking them, so I might as well
Speaker 1: put myself out. I mean, I've already put myself out there,
Speaker 1: but I'm still here. And any other conversation is for
Speaker 1: people of color, myself included. We are so so overly
Speaker 1: sexualized to be that person be like nope, no, I'm
Speaker 1: good without it. I'm sure that's a whole different like
Speaker 1: shock factor for many of people in itself, because I
Speaker 1: think as an Asian woman who there's a damn fetish
Speaker 1: for which is creep by the way, Um, it is,
Speaker 1: it's hard to recognize separation of female specific race and sexuality,
Speaker 1: and to separate that would be like cataclysmic from many men.
Speaker 1: And they're weird fantasy worlds. They're weird fantasy world that's
Speaker 1: fantasy is are not bad. But I'm just saying, like
Speaker 1: I've definitely had the weird people approached me, I would
Speaker 1: apologize for them. They should apologize themselves. True story, true story,
Speaker 1: And again having that conversation again, women are not just
Speaker 1: for sex, which is the opposite of what we're seeing
Speaker 1: and the conversations in the world and around the world
Speaker 1: and the value of women in general. Are people who
Speaker 1: identify as women or identify as female and given non
Speaker 1: binary and being seen as female, we are able to
Speaker 1: make our own decisions of who we are and what
Speaker 1: we prefer, what we don't prefer. Yeah, or just be
Speaker 1: treated like humans who are for a certain way what ridiculous. Um, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we really appreciate you coming on. Is there anything else
Speaker 1: that you want to touch on before we close out?
Speaker 1: I don't think so, but I'm really good for remembering
Speaker 1: stuff later, Like as I drive away, I'll probably think, God,
Speaker 1: that's what I said. Well, you're welcome back. Anything outside
Speaker 1: of now you have that's his friends, But outside of us.
Speaker 1: So your bagels and your coffee anytime come home Tuesdays.
Speaker 1: This is how I do things. I only come to
Speaker 1: eat food. I mean that's that was until I am UM.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, anytime you want to come back, whether
Speaker 1: it's to talk about this our pop culture or whatever.
Speaker 1: And also I would love to keep talking about CARE
Speaker 1: because I think they do some really good things and
Speaker 1: really necessary things, especially right now and the fight for
Speaker 1: UM against poverty and then just equal representation. Yea. If
Speaker 1: anybody wants to shoot a message to CARE on Twitter
Speaker 1: or Facebook, that'll be me replying back to you. So
Speaker 1: ask me how to donate or how to get donate.
Speaker 1: And speaking of um, where can people find you? And
Speaker 1: are there any projects you're working on that you're excited
Speaker 1: about on the horizon. Not currently working on anything because
Speaker 1: I left media and then just kind of like stayed
Speaker 1: gone with like a toe in the door. So I'm
Speaker 1: working on getting the rest of my foot and body
Speaker 1: through back through the door. Um. But people can find
Speaker 1: me on Twitter and Instagram at Joe a Dance so
Speaker 1: j o A d A n s oh my last name. Um,
Speaker 1: people say I'm funny. So I got an iPhone tent.
Speaker 1: I keep taking pictures of my cats, so if you
Speaker 1: want to see those, yeah, you know, a cat person, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I'm a dog person. Sorry, here we go. I'm a neither.
Speaker 1: She doesn't like animals, fish, I don't mind. How about this.
Speaker 1: I'm just generally neutral, animal neutral, animal neutral. Um. But yes,
Speaker 1: pictures of cats on the iPhone. Tain can't do better
Speaker 1: than that. Everybody right, right, And that brings us to
Speaker 1: the end of our interview. I have to tell you
Speaker 1: all the time, I am so amazed, and I feel
Speaker 1: so fortunate for the people who are willing to come
Speaker 1: in and doctors, they're so awesome. Un yes, and hopefully
Speaker 1: she will be back. I'm pretty sure we'll bring her back.
Speaker 1: He's too smart. We gotta put her on everything. Let's
Speaker 1: go ahead through all the things. Let's do that. If
Speaker 1: you want to hear more of Agile's work, don't forget
Speaker 1: to check out her podcast about South podcast. Um. But
Speaker 1: in the meantime, this brings us to the end of
Speaker 1: this episode. But we would love to hear from you
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Speaker 1: many email addresses, and if I had the time and
Speaker 1: my boss wouldn't yell at me, I would talk about
Speaker 1: the history of the email address. But I'm sure no
Speaker 1: one is interested in it but me. Um. But any
Speaker 1: of the old email addresses you email it will eventually
Speaker 1: arrive at It's that one. Sorry, Oh it is a
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