Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're
Speaker 1: listening to Software Up Radio, Special Operations, military news and
Speaker 1: straight talk with the guys in the community. Hello, lover
Speaker 1: and everyone, Welcome back to Software Radio, Software Radio on Time,
Speaker 1: on Target. I'm your host this afternoon, Steve BALISTI joining us,
Speaker 1: I should say joining us. We have a very special guest,
Speaker 1: Dan Schilling. He's an author. He's spent thirty years in
Speaker 1: the military, mostly as Air Force combat controller and a
Speaker 1: special Tactics officer. But you know, he started his uh,
Speaker 1: his career, as many of us did, as an infantry grunt.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna get into all that. But Dan has
Speaker 1: uh he's been all around the world. He was in Somalia,
Speaker 1: which most of us know as black Hawk Down. He
Speaker 1: worked with rangers, he worked with seals, he worked with
Speaker 1: s F guys. Um you know, he worked with Jay Sock.
Speaker 1: He's written a bunch of books. We're gonna be talking
Speaker 1: about his new book, The Power of Awareness in just
Speaker 1: a few minutes, but first we want to uh, welcome
Speaker 1: to the podcast. Dan. Thanks for taking the time to
Speaker 1: join us this afternoon. I know we were cutting into
Speaker 1: some of your recreation time today so we appreciate it. Thus, Steve,
Speaker 1: it's my pleasure to be here. Uh, this is a
Speaker 1: great radio program. I'm really excited to be on. And uh,
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna touch on some entering stuff, interesting stuff,
Speaker 1: and you know, skiing. I was supposed to be skiing
Speaker 1: this morning, but uh, you know, I'd rather be doing
Speaker 1: this interview when the snow is getting pretty crappy. Anyway, Well,
Speaker 1: as I told you offline, we don't have much snow
Speaker 1: down here in Florida. So if you're going skin, it's
Speaker 1: usually on the water down here, and you gotta avoid
Speaker 1: the alligators on the river. So yeah, I prefer the
Speaker 1: frozen water there you go. Uh. You know, before we
Speaker 1: get into your military career, I know that you know
Speaker 1: in your book you mentioned it. It's also on your website.
Speaker 1: You hold the Guinness World Record for the most base
Speaker 1: jumps in twenty four hours, two hundred and one. And
Speaker 1: I have to ask you about this because you know,
Speaker 1: I know how many parachutes did you actually use on
Speaker 1: that day? I had twenty four. I had twenty four
Speaker 1: bass rigs, and I had uh, I had fifteen packers
Speaker 1: who were all obviously base jumpers, and then some of
Speaker 1: the best base jumpers in the world. Actually, I was
Speaker 1: really fortunate to have a lot of great support from this.
Speaker 1: It was really tight knit community, especially back then, and
Speaker 1: they still don't. Managed to almost kill me three times
Speaker 1: in the first couple hours, but we got past that. Man,
Speaker 1: it worked out. So two hundred and one base jumps
Speaker 1: in one day, you know that, Uh, parachutists, And you know,
Speaker 1: I love jumping. That's one thing I've never done. I
Speaker 1: have never base jumped, And you talked about it in
Speaker 1: your book, And that's one of your passions, isn't it.
Speaker 1: It is? And it's a you know, as a like you.
Speaker 1: I was a Halo guy forever and I was a
Speaker 1: pro rated demonstration skydivor. You know, I did a lot
Speaker 1: of skydiving on the weekends and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: And but man, base jumping is a different thing. It
Speaker 1: has a different vibe to it. There's no airplane, there's
Speaker 1: no noise. You have to usually climb or high core,
Speaker 1: you know, clandestinely method of entry get into a building
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas. Not that I have jumped off of
Speaker 1: hotels in Las Vegas or anything, but you know, it's
Speaker 1: got it's a whole different aspect of it, and it's
Speaker 1: it's really for me. Base jumping is a way to
Speaker 1: center myself because it forces all the thoughts out of
Speaker 1: your head. Because it's the only sport I've ever done,
Speaker 1: our activity I've engaged in that you have to do
Speaker 1: everything exactly right at exactly the right time, every single time,
Speaker 1: or you die like there's no gray area, like you
Speaker 1: become palice food, or you're gonna wall strike the Hilton
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, or whatever the case may be. And
Speaker 1: that's a really great way to to to push thoughts
Speaker 1: out and and it worries out of your head. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know why I base jumped. It's
Speaker 1: a hard thing to describe except to say when I'm
Speaker 1: standing on top of a six d foot cliff and
Speaker 1: then that instant when I push off of that rock
Speaker 1: and you are not accelerating at thirty per second per second,
Speaker 1: yet you're just in this momentary sense of suspension and
Speaker 1: the universe is just like not in motion, and all
Speaker 1: the thoughts and worries are out of your head in
Speaker 1: that instant. I know why I based jump. That's awesome. Uh,
Speaker 1: Like I said, that's something I've never done. Before and
Speaker 1: now during your base jumps, did you have a helicopter
Speaker 1: to take you up or you know, I had a
Speaker 1: I had a sixty town construction crane. It took me
Speaker 1: a year just to get the permit to close a
Speaker 1: lane on the interstate because it's the it's the prime
Speaker 1: bridge over the Snake River Gorge in Twin Falls, Idaho.
Speaker 1: In fact, when you jump off the bridge, you can
Speaker 1: see the ramp that Evil Kinevel built for his ill
Speaker 1: fated rocket motorcycle car, whatever the hell it was that
Speaker 1: he was trying to shoot across there. You can see
Speaker 1: the dirt ramp from there, so that's yeah, that's where
Speaker 1: it is. And I just used a construction crane because
Speaker 1: I knew in order to break the world record. The
Speaker 1: current record at the time was a hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: four jumps. Um, it's about cyclic rate. And you can
Speaker 1: appreciate this as a as a as a you know,
Speaker 1: former Green Beret. It's uh, it's all about logistics. And
Speaker 1: my plan was driven logistics because I am a very
Speaker 1: average base jumper. I am not a spectacular aerobatic dude
Speaker 1: or anything. But I don't have to run an operation man,
Speaker 1: and that's really what it came down to, Well, you
Speaker 1: had to have some tired limbs by the end of
Speaker 1: that day. Yeah, I broke my arm about eight hours in,
Speaker 1: which sucked, but I had a PJ there, so he
Speaker 1: gave me a quick shot of tour it all in
Speaker 1: one I think my right butt cheek, and that sort
Speaker 1: of fixed that problem, and we just kept pressing on. Wow, Well,
Speaker 1: let's talk about your military career, because, like a lot
Speaker 1: of us, you started off as a grunt um. How
Speaker 1: did you come about that? And tell us about, you know,
Speaker 1: getting into the Air force and combat controlling. Well, I was,
Speaker 1: you know, like a lot of guys with a lot
Speaker 1: of energy. When I got out of high school, I
Speaker 1: tried going to college and very unsuccessfully did that, and
Speaker 1: so I just wasn't ready. I didn't have the focus
Speaker 1: and then maybe the maturity to do that. And at
Speaker 1: the time, the girl I was dating as a great
Speaker 1: favor to me, reached into my chest, grabbed my heart
Speaker 1: and ripped it out, wrenching my life away from me,
Speaker 1: and I realized, maybe I'll do something different, And oddly enough,
Speaker 1: somehow I encountered an army recruiter who told me, hey,
Speaker 1: we'll pay you to jump out of airplanes. And it
Speaker 1: had never occurred to me in my life to even
Speaker 1: jump out of an airplane. This is Scott Evan wasn't
Speaker 1: a big deal then, and and I thought, man jump
Speaker 1: out of an airplane. So I joined as a grunt
Speaker 1: and really enjoyed that. Uh you know, you're humping a
Speaker 1: ruck at a sixty, and you know, you learn a
Speaker 1: lot about soldiering and how to work as a team.
Speaker 1: It's the basic fundamentals of even special ops. It's all
Speaker 1: about teamwork and you can learn that at the infantry
Speaker 1: level or environment. And I really found that appealing. And
Speaker 1: then I ended up going on a trip with some
Speaker 1: combat controllers about two years in and they were doing
Speaker 1: blackout landings with talent. You know, EMC went thirty talents. Again,
Speaker 1: this isn't mid eighties and uh, and they were telling
Speaker 1: me they hit there there halo, they were scuba. And
Speaker 1: then Pete Neal, the guy who got me into combat control,
Speaker 1: he's dead now, but he said yeah, we get pro
Speaker 1: pay And I said pro pa pro pay and he goes,
Speaker 1: it's exactly and he's like, that's cool guy pay. I
Speaker 1: want man, man, I want cool guy pay. So but
Speaker 1: I'm in the Army, so I'm only like two years
Speaker 1: into the Army. I'm a corporal. And I go and
Speaker 1: talk to an Air Force recruiter and he's like, hey,
Speaker 1: I can get you into the Air Force. And you know,
Speaker 1: these guys were combat controllers. I'm like, I want to
Speaker 1: be a combat controller. At the time, you couldn't enlist
Speaker 1: for CCT. You just to join the Air Force and
Speaker 1: take a gamble on it. But anyway, I got all
Speaker 1: the paperwork filled out and he's like, if you can
Speaker 1: get a release, this will get you into the Air Force.
Speaker 1: So I went back to my my company commander, and
Speaker 1: I was a pretty fast moving guy. You know, they
Speaker 1: liked me at the unit and on my case or
Speaker 1: I really want to be a combat controller, and you know,
Speaker 1: here's the deal. And he's like, well, here's the deal, shilling,
Speaker 1: if the Air Force will take you, if you can
Speaker 1: get into the Air Force, I'll sign your paperwork. And
Speaker 1: I was like, funny you should say that, sir. Slip
Speaker 1: the thing across the desk. I'm like, this is the
Speaker 1: forum right here, and he was boxed in. Good guy.
Speaker 1: He signed it and I didn't. In the service transfer
Speaker 1: and you know, and and that sent me on the
Speaker 1: trajectory to a lot of things have changed and shaped
Speaker 1: my life. Yeah, you know, having worked with combat controllers,
Speaker 1: a couple of things always stood out. Those guys were
Speaker 1: as cool as a cucumber, because you know, you work
Speaker 1: with them, and it's not always you know, when people
Speaker 1: here combat control of they're they're automatically thinking, oh, calling
Speaker 1: in airstrikes because of you know, what's been going on
Speaker 1: for forever in Afghanistan, Iraq. But you know, I remember
Speaker 1: working with those guys during a UM. It was like
Speaker 1: a hurricane down in uh one of those Central American
Speaker 1: Haiti or Hondura. It might have been Hondura's back in
Speaker 1: that time. And the first guys that showed up don there.
Speaker 1: The SF guys, we were already there. We had been
Speaker 1: working with the Honduran infantry. But then you know, the
Speaker 1: country was destroyed, So who shows up combat controllers because
Speaker 1: they're bringing in all of the yeah, the emergency stuff.
Speaker 1: And they had a pretty interesting flight path. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, as an SF guy, you know, we don't
Speaker 1: know anything about that, and we're watching all these planes
Speaker 1: flying around and this guy, you know, he's sitting there
Speaker 1: and drinking his coffee talking on the radio to a
Speaker 1: bunch of different pilots. It had goes off to those guys. Well,
Speaker 1: it's a you know, it's a funny thing because talking
Speaker 1: about uh, you know, talking about that's one of the
Speaker 1: core missions, you know, combat control. Yeah, air strikes is
Speaker 1: how in America's longest running more we've learned a lot
Speaker 1: of stripes and we've always been the world's foremost capability
Speaker 1: for putting a bomb on a point on the Earth
Speaker 1: at the right time without collateral damage. But as you said,
Speaker 1: you know, most people don't realize a couple of things.
Speaker 1: One we predate green Berets and seals by about a decade.
Speaker 1: And two we have this the restless capability that really
Speaker 1: matters to the world is we're all rated air traffic controllers.
Speaker 1: We go to Air track Control school and you bring
Speaker 1: this capability to any dynamic and so we're we tend
Speaker 1: to be first on sene. You know, when Haiti collapsed
Speaker 1: in the first guys there in in in the world's response.
Speaker 1: The entire world was focusing on the collapse of Haiti
Speaker 1: after the earthquake. The first guys that showed up was
Speaker 1: a handful of combat controllers with one a TV and
Speaker 1: a folding card table. And the guy who ran that
Speaker 1: no officers at all, just enlisted dudes. It was a
Speaker 1: Master sergeant named Tony Travis. He's a friend of mine.
Speaker 1: And they ran that international airport and they exceeded the
Speaker 1: maximum capacity of the Haiti International Airport by fourteen hundred percent.
Speaker 1: That's over the maximum capability that airfield. And they did
Speaker 1: that for weeks without a single incident, running drop zones
Speaker 1: and the airfield and it was amazing. And for that feat,
Speaker 1: he was the first um, you know, U S Military
Speaker 1: member to be listed as one of the Times hundred
Speaker 1: most Influential People of the Year. And that's that's one
Speaker 1: of the great things about combat controllers. You save the
Speaker 1: good guys in addition to killing the bad guys, right,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's funny gives. Like I told you,
Speaker 1: I have spent some time with the guys and and
Speaker 1: they were they were telling me, you know, we're we're
Speaker 1: unique in the fact that we trained as a team,
Speaker 1: but we work as individuals, you know, working with you guys.
Speaker 1: And the one thing that I realized right off the
Speaker 1: bat is you know, when you're dealing with special ops
Speaker 1: guys and we all know that Greenberrey Seals Rangers. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of type of personalities there. And I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna tell you we were a bunch assholes, but
Speaker 1: we can be at times. And for those guys to
Speaker 1: come in and they're working with guys, you know a
Speaker 1: lot of times they're working with guys they've never met before.
Speaker 1: Being able to fit right in seamlessly is an art
Speaker 1: in itself. Well, you you learn to subordinate your ego.
Speaker 1: I mean you touched on the key. You're working with
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of alpha people, men and women, doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: you know, gender, and and and discipline or what nationality
Speaker 1: and so in order to integrate into that type of
Speaker 1: environment rapidly and gain full trust of these people, that's like, hey,
Speaker 1: when things are gonna be at their absolute worst, this
Speaker 1: is the one guy who's gonna stave everyone's life when
Speaker 1: no one else can do it. Hey, As you pointed out,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of pressure on the individual level and
Speaker 1: be you have to be able to blend. And all
Speaker 1: the best combat controllers I've known are very socially adaptable
Speaker 1: and malleable people. And uh, and they tend to be
Speaker 1: really intellectually curious, uh folks, and and that, and it's
Speaker 1: just and you develop that and it carries you through life.
Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons I've been successful in
Speaker 1: some other areas, And you know, whether it was my
Speaker 1: base jump world record or becoming a writer and even
Speaker 1: speaking to people, I can attribute to all the things
Speaker 1: I learned, not just the core skills of special obs, shoot, move, communicate,
Speaker 1: jump from a plane, whatever, it was the people skills
Speaker 1: that I learned as a combat controller. I've really shaped
Speaker 1: me as an individual. And uh, you know, and that's
Speaker 1: not all good. I guess I can be a jerk
Speaker 1: sometimes too, but who knows, anyway, we all can sometimes.
Speaker 1: But yeah, a funny story, I uh, when I was
Speaker 1: working with you know, some controllers down in Paraguay. They
Speaker 1: were down there, down there for something completely different. I
Speaker 1: was down there working with the Paraguay and SUF guys.
Speaker 1: Um they went down to do some kind of exercise
Speaker 1: that with the Air Force, and you know, we we
Speaker 1: kept running into each other and then you know, we
Speaker 1: were jumping together with the Paraguayan guys, and so you know,
Speaker 1: we naturally started hanging out together and spending time. We
Speaker 1: were having having a good time, and so uh, this
Speaker 1: one night they had asked me, Hey, you guys gonna
Speaker 1: be around tonight. Yep, we'll be around. Well, it turns
Speaker 1: out our training went over time. We were there late
Speaker 1: at until late at night. We got back to the
Speaker 1: hotel and they had sent one of the guys over
Speaker 1: and didn't speak Spanish, and he was like, where's the
Speaker 1: SF guys at the hotel? Major D didn't speak English,
Speaker 1: so they they're trying to pass a message. And so
Speaker 1: when we get back, the major D was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the guy didn't speak Spanish and I don't speak English,
Speaker 1: but he said something about eight o'clock in the morning
Speaker 1: picking somebody up at the airport. So I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: they must have got a message that somebody's coming down,
Speaker 1: you know, you know how it works, and somebody senior,
Speaker 1: some senior dudes coming to look at things or whatever.
Speaker 1: So I have a pair of blue jeans on, a
Speaker 1: pair of cowboy boots and a leather jacket and I
Speaker 1: go to the airport because it's it's winter in Paraguay,
Speaker 1: which is like July, uh, and it was actually pretty chilly.
Speaker 1: So I go to the airport with another guy from
Speaker 1: my team, and we're addressed kind of like the same.
Speaker 1: We figured we're gonna pick up one of our guys
Speaker 1: and uh so, then the Air Force guys of all
Speaker 1: the other CCT guys and they had like almost an
Speaker 1: entire airborne battalion for the Paraguayans. And the head controller
Speaker 1: came up to me. I'm trying to remember his name now,
Speaker 1: I'm dron a blank. He's like, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: And I was like, I got your message. Who are
Speaker 1: we picking up? He's like no, He's like, we're jumping
Speaker 1: these battalion of guys. I need, you know, jump masters.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, oh wow, no ship. So I said,
Speaker 1: uh hey, let me talk because we were using US
Speaker 1: Air Force pilots and I said let me talk to
Speaker 1: the pilot. So the pilot was looking at me and
Speaker 1: he's like, hey, what's going on? And I said, Hey,
Speaker 1: this is Bill. This is a guy on my team.
Speaker 1: If it's alright with you, we're gonna be the primary
Speaker 1: jump masters dressed like this. And he goes with cowboy
Speaker 1: boots on and I said, hey, man, you know, I
Speaker 1: explained to him the situation and he was like, as
Speaker 1: long as you could do it safely. I don't have
Speaker 1: a problem with it. Yeah, I was like, here we go.
Speaker 1: So I went to the CC and it was like,
Speaker 1: any of you guys have a spare helmet and they
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, it's a matter of fact, we do.
Speaker 1: They had this gold motorcycle helmet that was like this
Speaker 1: god awful. It wasn't even gold, it was like yellow
Speaker 1: metal flake, you know, and it was just absolutely horrible.
Speaker 1: And I said, you gotta be kidding me, right, So
Speaker 1: they were like, no, this is we got this. So
Speaker 1: I put this on. I'm standing there in a leather
Speaker 1: jacket and I go through all the UM commands and
Speaker 1: all this, and I'm looking at the front of the aircraft.
Speaker 1: One of the CCT guys got his movie camera out
Speaker 1: and he's phone me. He's like, oh, yeah, we we
Speaker 1: have black mail material big time now, you know. And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god. But I say, it's
Speaker 1: probably one of those Bell five hundred, you know helmets
Speaker 1: that everybody had from way back in the day, because
Speaker 1: that's just a yeah, we used to have a lot
Speaker 1: of those. We used to carry, you know, this is
Speaker 1: the cherry helmet thing, but we used to have a
Speaker 1: lot of those kind of things around just to screw
Speaker 1: with other people. Yeah, yeah, and but that was you know,
Speaker 1: that was my story with that and yeah, they have
Speaker 1: that blackmail material on me. So anyway, so um yeah,
Speaker 1: getting back to the cct S, UH, I wanted to
Speaker 1: ask you about Gothic Serpent, the operation in Mogadishu and
Speaker 1: you know, share of your experiences there. Well, yeah, happy
Speaker 1: to you know, one of the things that I tend
Speaker 1: to always land on UH and emphasize what the public is. Yeah.
Speaker 1: That was a very successful mission. It was just a
Speaker 1: very difficult and from our standpoint, costly and from a
Speaker 1: certainly from a Smally standpoint, even more costly operation that day.
Speaker 1: I mean the deployment that the overall mission there was
Speaker 1: to introduce more stability, stave off starvation as a weapon
Speaker 1: by the Havard Getter Clan and Smally National Alliance and
Speaker 1: roll up this warlord named Mohammed A Deed And we
Speaker 1: were doing that. We were knocking out targets, and we
Speaker 1: were doing things that people just didn't do back then.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was it was really the finest collection
Speaker 1: of joint special ops I think to date at that point.
Speaker 1: But what's really wonderful about the intent there was this
Speaker 1: was America at its best. This is America just helping
Speaker 1: other people. They were being are as a weapon by
Speaker 1: factional clan fighting, and that's an athema to the American culture.
Speaker 1: And we didn't have foreign interest there. It was an oil.
Speaker 1: It was just trying to do the right thing. But
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you know they're they're
Speaker 1: difficult missions in a city of a million people. And
Speaker 1: on the day that most people know as black Hawk Down,
Speaker 1: which was just really the seventh mission we had executed
Speaker 1: while we were there. Man, we went into the middle
Speaker 1: of the city in the middle of the day with
Speaker 1: two hundred guys, and I challenged any country in the
Speaker 1: world to put two men in that same situation and
Speaker 1: he have even one person walk out alive. And not
Speaker 1: only did we come out alive, we accomplished the mission.
Speaker 1: We just lost eighteen great Americans, including a good friend
Speaker 1: of yours. I understand you knew Earl Fillmore, who was
Speaker 1: a remarkable Delta Force operator. Yeah, Earl was. He was
Speaker 1: one of those guys that you could be having the
Speaker 1: worst possible day and Earl would make you laugh and
Speaker 1: he'd get you smiling. He was just he had that
Speaker 1: kind of a personality. He was one of the funniest guys.
Speaker 1: I remember we were on the same team in seventh
Speaker 1: group before you know, he went to selection. We went
Speaker 1: to language school together and he used to crack up
Speaker 1: our language school instructors every single day. You know, I'll
Speaker 1: never forget that because we were in Spanish language training
Speaker 1: and the earl was just hilarious and uh yeah, he's
Speaker 1: he's missed. Um, you know, well we lost a lot
Speaker 1: of good people that day. But yeah, it's always interesting
Speaker 1: to hear, you know, different people's perspective who were there. Um,
Speaker 1: you had a story about Jerry Boykin and two. Uh well,
Speaker 1: so yeah, it has has really nothing to do with
Speaker 1: the objective or even the events of October three and fourth.
Speaker 1: But early on we had this, uh the Sergeant Major's
Speaker 1: senior listed guys from all the unit t F one
Speaker 1: six D Delta we had are you the sts was there?
Speaker 1: So I was there with my guys and they were
Speaker 1: having this volleyball game between the commanders and the senior
Speaker 1: listed guys. And so the plan was the volleyball game
Speaker 1: and whoever lost had to serve up chow for the
Speaker 1: entire task force was like f and fifty of us.
Speaker 1: But the plan was before the game, a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of us took down all the commanders and basically, you know,
Speaker 1: Flexi tied um to either Stokes litters or or regular
Speaker 1: polish letters and you know regular standard you know, wooden litters,
Speaker 1: and so, uh, myself, a couple other combat controllers and
Speaker 1: a couple of steals from Seal Team six. We got
Speaker 1: Jerry Boykin, who was the Delta Force commander at the time,
Speaker 1: so we body slammed him to the asphalt, which was
Speaker 1: a lot of fun in and of itself, but when
Speaker 1: we were were we were scrapping him into a Stokes
Speaker 1: later and he was putting up a pretty good fight,
Speaker 1: but you know, he knew it was inevitable until one
Speaker 1: of the steals broke out this Dick Marsenko Rogue Warrior
Speaker 1: tank top and it's like, he sir, this is going on,
Speaker 1: and he's like, there's no way you guys are putting
Speaker 1: that thing on me, and were like, all right, if
Speaker 1: you want, so anyway, we we we got this over
Speaker 1: his head and got him on him and then we
Speaker 1: had him Flexi tied to the stokes and we stood
Speaker 1: him up right like it was a gazelle. We've just
Speaker 1: been out and uh like a trophy and there's you know,
Speaker 1: I got this picture of us holding him up right
Speaker 1: and he's like trying to hide his face. But you know,
Speaker 1: later on when he was I think his use a
Speaker 1: side commander, Um, I actually gave that too much persent
Speaker 1: of he came out and spoke at another organization I
Speaker 1: was in and he was like, you sign of a bitch.
Speaker 1: Like no one's supposed to ever seen those photos. But
Speaker 1: it was just a funny photo because here's the Delta
Speaker 1: Force commander wearing a you know, Dick Marsenko Steel Team
Speaker 1: Sticks T shirt. That's awesome. Yeah, he's uh, he's quite
Speaker 1: the character to himself. He yes, he is. Well, I
Speaker 1: could sit here and I could talk to you all
Speaker 1: day long about different stuff with the you know, working
Speaker 1: with special ops. But I know that you know, you
Speaker 1: have a new book out and let's let's get into that.
Speaker 1: You know, Um, this new books called the Power of Awareness,
Speaker 1: and basically it's teaching people who maybe aren't trained in
Speaker 1: taking a hard look at their own lives civilians type
Speaker 1: of thing, and it's written in that in that way
Speaker 1: to basically keep safe in your everyday life and tell
Speaker 1: our listeners a little bit about the book and then well,
Speaker 1: you've touched on the key for me. Uh, this book
Speaker 1: came to me through my age and he's like, I
Speaker 1: think you should write this book. And I said, I'm
Speaker 1: not interested in writing that book. I don't think And
Speaker 1: there's a lot there's a lot of books that have
Speaker 1: been out there on that um. And then I was
Speaker 1: down in Mexico getting ready to raise in the Baja
Speaker 1: one thousand. Our race truck and race car and all
Speaker 1: our kids got stolen by Mexican car thieves while we
Speaker 1: watched from six d away and I was like, man,
Speaker 1: I had a bag, I can solve this problem right now,
Speaker 1: but but a I didn't. And be I realized, I
Speaker 1: can't believe I let this happen. And so I came
Speaker 1: back and told my age and I'm like, hey, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna write this book. And when I did research
Speaker 1: on you know what other books around out there like this,
Speaker 1: there's some really good ones. There's some most of them
Speaker 1: are are mediocre or bad. They're either very self promotional,
Speaker 1: or they're too technical, or they're trying to, you know,
Speaker 1: demonstrate their expertise and it's a lot of ego, and
Speaker 1: I wanted to write a book that the typical citizen
Speaker 1: of the world would find useful. So the book is
Speaker 1: easy to understand. The rules, there are six core rules.
Speaker 1: They're easy to remember and implement in your life. And
Speaker 1: I structured it that way because that's what's going to
Speaker 1: have value to the tip coal person walking the planet.
Speaker 1: Most people don't have the training you and I have,
Speaker 1: and they don't think that way, and they don't have
Speaker 1: to know how to prioritize and contingency plan. And so
Speaker 1: I deliberately wrote away from military acronyms and and and
Speaker 1: I pulled from a lot of people that I've had
Speaker 1: the good fortune to work with CIA case officers, I've
Speaker 1: known other special operators. Police detectives in particular, are very
Speaker 1: valuable resources because they're always dealing with the aftermath of
Speaker 1: a crime. And so I tried to pull the best
Speaker 1: tactics from the best people in the world and then
Speaker 1: instill that into the book. And hopefully that's what I've done.
Speaker 1: And and really my goal is that someday I get
Speaker 1: an email from someone who says, hey, this book saved
Speaker 1: my life. But that's my objective and I'm very enthusiastic
Speaker 1: about that because I think people can really learn from
Speaker 1: the situational awareness and intuition and that's the foundation of
Speaker 1: all personal safety, right. And you know, reading your book, um,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of it's it's a lot of it's
Speaker 1: common sense stuff that a lot of people just don't
Speaker 1: They don't have it in their mindset, right, they don't
Speaker 1: know not their fault. You know. For for a very
Speaker 1: short amount of time after I got out, I used
Speaker 1: to travel with the every wealthy family from California when
Speaker 1: they travel around the world, and you know, one day
Speaker 1: some of their friends said, well, how are you going to,
Speaker 1: you know, keep these people safe in a bad situation?
Speaker 1: And I used to tell them they hired me to
Speaker 1: keep them out of the situation, getting that's what my
Speaker 1: job is. It's not to be like some super Steven Segal,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, you know, kung fu master gunfighter. It's
Speaker 1: to keep this from ever happening. And that's that's why
Speaker 1: they hired me. And that when I read this book,
Speaker 1: that's what came through. I thought loud and clear with this,
Speaker 1: it's all about preventing it from happening in the first place. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's you know, my book is not about crapmaga
Speaker 1: or constialed carry and those are things I touch on,
Speaker 1: but that's not you know, the best battles are over
Speaker 1: before the shot is fired by one side at the other.
Speaker 1: And it's son zoo. I guess too. But I tend
Speaker 1: not to fall into that philosophical uh you know, martial
Speaker 1: philosophical path, because it's really about it's about people understanding
Speaker 1: and honing situational awareness and listening to their intuition. Intuition
Speaker 1: is inherent. You've got it, I've got it. Everyone listening
Speaker 1: has it. But in the modern world, it has never
Speaker 1: been a stay for time. To be a human, you're
Speaker 1: less likely to be enslaved now or raped now, or
Speaker 1: have all your possessions stolen, or be subject to a
Speaker 1: war now than at any time in human history. That's
Speaker 1: not to say the world's not full of criminals and conflict,
Speaker 1: but the fact is you don't have to pay attention
Speaker 1: to your intuition anymore. And for that reason, people subordinated
Speaker 1: and that's not healthy for you. Because the one thing
Speaker 1: I learned that really surprised me in the course of
Speaker 1: writing the book, in my research when I was spending
Speaker 1: a lot of time with L. A. P. D Um
Speaker 1: that some detectives down there was that people always knew
Speaker 1: what not to do, and yet they still walked across
Speaker 1: that black hard parking lot at night or open the
Speaker 1: apartment complex gate when they knew not to. And they
Speaker 1: do that because they believe it's more important to be
Speaker 1: socially polite or they don't want to look foolish, and
Speaker 1: and that's that's wrong. And so in my book, one
Speaker 1: of the things I think I've done that's innovative from
Speaker 1: a from a personal safety book standpoint is there are
Speaker 1: exercises in the book to help people understand what the
Speaker 1: situational awareness is and how to break it down simply
Speaker 1: and easily, and and how to to get back in
Speaker 1: touch with their intuition. And I feel so strongly about
Speaker 1: that that incorporated them into the book at the end
Speaker 1: of these six rules that comprised the core of the book.
Speaker 1: But I've also provided them for free on my website
Speaker 1: because people who read the book, I want them. Six
Speaker 1: months later, two friends are having a beer or or
Speaker 1: two girlfriends are having a cocktail and they talk about it.
Speaker 1: It's like I can't remember what he was talking about
Speaker 1: when you're dining, or how to do surveillance detection and
Speaker 1: these things that really can save your life. I want
Speaker 1: them to be able to look at their phone, pull
Speaker 1: it up, go to my website and say, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: Dan Chilling books dot com. Here's what he was talking about,
Speaker 1: because the only way they'll get better. And you know this,
Speaker 1: Steve is practice, practice, practice, practice practice, And so if
Speaker 1: I could make it accessible for people, I'm hoping they'll
Speaker 1: come back and incorporate it into their lives. And that's
Speaker 1: the goal of this book. I wasn't an easy thing
Speaker 1: to do with my publisher, but but they're on board
Speaker 1: with it too. You know, they know what I'm trying
Speaker 1: to do here, right And you know in your book,
Speaker 1: having read it, when you talk about being situationally aware,
Speaker 1: there's um it's actually a two part thing that you
Speaker 1: write about, and can you explain that a little bit
Speaker 1: to I don't want to give too much of your
Speaker 1: book away because we're encouraging our listeners go out and
Speaker 1: buy it. But at the same time I think that
Speaker 1: it's it's very interesting stuff here. Well, there's hold on,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna we're gonna go to mute for second, because
Speaker 1: of the garments. Trucks are gonna drive by here in
Speaker 1: about ten seconds. That's okay, So yeah, okay, yeah, you're
Speaker 1: gonna we'll have to we'll come back and kick start
Speaker 1: that again. But give him just a second because he's
Speaker 1: driving right by the front of the house. Um, yes,
Speaker 1: that's it's a good thing to talk about here. Let
Speaker 1: me just let him cruise on. Buy So, Steve, that's
Speaker 1: a that's a great question. Situational awareness for me is
Speaker 1: different than I think how most experts or or uh
Speaker 1: espousers of situation awareness view it, because most people think
Speaker 1: of it as a singular term, situational awareness, almost as
Speaker 1: if it's one word, and I don't see it that way,
Speaker 1: and I want the the civilian reader, or the business
Speaker 1: traveler or the holiday vacation taker to to understand that
Speaker 1: it's really two components. There's the situation, which is external
Speaker 1: to you. Who's in your environment, what are they doing?
Speaker 1: Are they interested in you? For good or bad? Are
Speaker 1: you know? Are are things happening? And what's your place
Speaker 1: in that environment? So that's external to who you are.
Speaker 1: Then there's the internal aspect, which is what should my
Speaker 1: appropriate level of awareness be? You know, you or in
Speaker 1: your studio. I'm in my office, like I'm completely unaware
Speaker 1: of everything that's going on out me if I choose
Speaker 1: to be, because I'm not likely to be under threat
Speaker 1: as opposed to say, just being open to an environment
Speaker 1: that I think might be safe, like walking my my
Speaker 1: local town where I'm just open to input as opposed
Speaker 1: to walking through a strange city where I'm not under threat.
Speaker 1: But I need to be attentive and those things are
Speaker 1: internal to me, and I can control that, and that's
Speaker 1: what people need to get in touch with. And those
Speaker 1: are the exercises that I put in the book to
Speaker 1: help people hone that so that becomes second nature that
Speaker 1: you think about those things and not in a paranoid
Speaker 1: everything is a threat kind of way. Because I'm not
Speaker 1: a serious guy. I mean, I don't take many things
Speaker 1: very seriously. I'm certainly not somber about this. I just
Speaker 1: want people to to think about it in a positive
Speaker 1: way and then begin to incorporate it. And I think
Speaker 1: that's an easier way for the non military or security
Speaker 1: professional to think about it, right And you know, uh,
Speaker 1: in your book and as well as on your website,
Speaker 1: you have six basic rules and again it's it's just
Speaker 1: it sounds like it's very simple, but it's imperative for
Speaker 1: people who want to be safe and who don't think
Speaker 1: about this on a daily basis like professionals do, and
Speaker 1: that's how they get in trouble because there's a perception
Speaker 1: in modern society when people are confronted with a criminal
Speaker 1: act and this anecdotal, it's not scientific, but that hey,
Speaker 1: this shouldn't be happening, because it shouldn't be happening. You
Speaker 1: should be able to wander around, and you want to
Speaker 1: be able to wander around, but that's different than than
Speaker 1: what can happen, and so you need to be just
Speaker 1: attuned so that as you were talking about when you
Speaker 1: were doing this for a living on as a private
Speaker 1: you know, contractor people don't get in that situation. Don't
Speaker 1: put yourself at risk. And that's the core of my book,
Speaker 1: Travel the World. The world is a wondrous place. It
Speaker 1: meant to be explored and enjoyed with the people you love.
Speaker 1: But to do that safely, you need to be more aware.
Speaker 1: And that's the purpose of the book, and and it
Speaker 1: builds on it from there. We don't have to delve
Speaker 1: into it because it's better read on the page, and
Speaker 1: I hope people buy copies of the book. If you
Speaker 1: go to dance Link books dot com. You can get
Speaker 1: signed copies from my local indie bookseller, but you can
Speaker 1: get it anywhere, Barnes and Noble, even Amazon, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: I'm a big supporter of Indian bookstores though, because I
Speaker 1: think literature is very important and these people have a
Speaker 1: great passion for it. And it's a hard business to
Speaker 1: be in if you're not Amazon. And uh, and Amazon
Speaker 1: is convenient and it's it's does a lot of great
Speaker 1: things for people, but uh, you know, when it comes
Speaker 1: to reading, man, you learn more on a page than
Speaker 1: you will by listening to a podcast or watching something
Speaker 1: on TV. It's it's interesting I've come to feel because
Speaker 1: I read and I write every day that you know,
Speaker 1: I've watched some very powerful movies that have impacted me
Speaker 1: emotionally and and and and left impressions, but I've never
Speaker 1: had one of those saved my life. And I've had
Speaker 1: a book saved my life, and I've had other books
Speaker 1: changed my life. And that's the power of the written word.
Speaker 1: And that's why I think it's really important that people,
Speaker 1: you know, pick up a copy of the book because
Speaker 1: I think it can save lives and I can keep
Speaker 1: them safe. It's a better way to put it in.
Speaker 1: I think that's a great, great way to put it.
Speaker 1: And also I encourage all of our listeners out there
Speaker 1: and our readers from suffragn uh to check out Dan's
Speaker 1: website because for those of you who who might not
Speaker 1: be as as well trained as others, he has exercises
Speaker 1: that you can download about situational awareness intuition like he
Speaker 1: just mentioned, as well as checklist when you know you
Speaker 1: travel on a hotel or traveling in general. Uh. That
Speaker 1: are absolutely really really good stuff to know because it's
Speaker 1: all about keeping you safe and enjoying yourself safely. And
Speaker 1: I used to tell people all the time, don't put
Speaker 1: yourself out there like a victim. Don't be staring at
Speaker 1: your phone when you're walking down the street late at night,
Speaker 1: because that's the kind of people that put a target
Speaker 1: on themselves. And and that is the vast majority of
Speaker 1: people on any given day. You know, we're all we're
Speaker 1: all guilty. I'll go out on a limb and say,
Speaker 1: I'll bet Steve you have texted while driving, because I
Speaker 1: do right there is not a there's not a smart
Speaker 1: phone owning human in the world who isn't guilty of that,
Speaker 1: who also owns a car. But the point is not
Speaker 1: to give up your phone, but just as you shouldn't
Speaker 1: do it in heavy traffic or at all, I guess.
Speaker 1: But when you are in a strange city and you're
Speaker 1: in the wrong time zone, your circadian rhythm is off.
Speaker 1: Everything else is is out of whack. People can identify
Speaker 1: you as not from around here for whatever reason. Never
Speaker 1: look at your phone, you know, unless you're parked in
Speaker 1: someplace safe hotel lobby, or there's a couple of you
Speaker 1: and you're trying to figure out where to go next.
Speaker 1: You don't walk and stare at your phone doing the
Speaker 1: Google Maps thing, because that just says I would like
Speaker 1: to be your next victim if you're a criminal. And
Speaker 1: that's the important question. When should I look at my phone?
Speaker 1: And when should I not? But those are subsets, you know.
Speaker 1: The more important thing is that's a poor decision based
Speaker 1: on you're not actually practicing situational awareness. Because you're being unaware,
Speaker 1: you're blinding one if not two of your most important senses,
Speaker 1: site and hearing. It's uh, great stuff. There and tell
Speaker 1: our listeners. I know you mentioned it a minute ago,
Speaker 1: you know, Dan Chilling books dot com. Is there anywhere
Speaker 1: else they can find this? Uh? But I mean you
Speaker 1: know it's it's out in bookstairs on June second. Um,
Speaker 1: you can pick up copies anywhere and now it comes
Speaker 1: out next Tuesday. Um. So for for folks, the book
Speaker 1: is the best resource. Uh. It's it is the way
Speaker 1: I hope to reach people. I'm I'm doing some videos.
Speaker 1: I've actually founded a however awareness institute. Were in the
Speaker 1: early stages of developing curriculum. We're hoping to help corporations
Speaker 1: and individuals. It's not really for the military, professional or
Speaker 1: law enforcement community of the there's value there too. It's
Speaker 1: to provide these for folks. So that will be up
Speaker 1: and running and it's my my p o A dot
Speaker 1: org is the website, but it's not up yet, but
Speaker 1: we are in the stages of doing that. But it's
Speaker 1: the book. Even the institute that we're founding surrounded it
Speaker 1: surrounds the principles that are contained in the book. And
Speaker 1: I think books are such a valuable means for people
Speaker 1: to learn, and they're handy references. It's a it's not
Speaker 1: a thick book. There's interesting science in there, but I
Speaker 1: don't bog down a lot of science like the amygdal
Speaker 1: and all this stuff that what is the actual lizard brain?
Speaker 1: For guys like you and me, Steve, like, we're not
Speaker 1: gonna remember that stuff. Come on, look at me. I'm not.
Speaker 1: You know, I can't remember. I'm gonna scientist. But I
Speaker 1: do know that I can make that important for people
Speaker 1: to understand that, hey, you act this way under one
Speaker 1: set of circumstances and that way under another set of circumstances.
Speaker 1: And those are the things that are in the book
Speaker 1: in an easy way way to understand. And and there's
Speaker 1: some really entertaining stories in there as well as some
Speaker 1: cautionary tales. But hopefully it's an entertaining read as well.
Speaker 1: You know, as an author, my job is to educate
Speaker 1: but also entertained. I want people to enjoy the read.
Speaker 1: And I think it's a I think it's a lively book. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it definitely was. And you know, uh, you mentioned one
Speaker 1: of your anecdotes, and they're even trained professionals sometimes make mistakes,
Speaker 1: as what happened to you in Mexico, um and it
Speaker 1: was during a base jump right, You and your partner
Speaker 1: were getting ready to do a base jump and you
Speaker 1: made a mistake and your your stuff it's stolen. Yep,
Speaker 1: yeah we're actually speed flying. Not so we weren't based
Speaker 1: on Yeah, we we made we made a series. Like
Speaker 1: any plane crash or crime act, it's a convergence of
Speaker 1: things that all arrive at a single point in time
Speaker 1: that allows a bad thing to happen. And uh, you
Speaker 1: know you gotta if you can break one item in
Speaker 1: that chain, you'll stop you'll stop the the accident or
Speaker 1: the attack. And you know it's really about that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: so you know it's hopefully it's a good read. You know,
Speaker 1: there's there's some funny stories in there about a lot
Speaker 1: of other things, including intuition. You know how you can
Speaker 1: use that. Um, I've intuition to save my life on
Speaker 1: a couple of occasions. But the one of the things
Speaker 1: I emphasized in the book about intuition and the avoidance
Speaker 1: of crime is that you'll never really know how close
Speaker 1: you came, because if nothing happened, you're doing everything right,
Speaker 1: So you can't really prove a negative. But that's the trick,
Speaker 1: and you have to be aware that if nothing's happening.
Speaker 1: You're doing things right. And that's why, for many reasons,
Speaker 1: it's easier for a non professional to listen to their intuition.
Speaker 1: Then it is a group of professionals who are very
Speaker 1: focused on an objective to listen to intuition, because intuition
Speaker 1: can be disruptive to what you've planned to do. But
Speaker 1: the thing about intuition, and I rarely speak in absolutes,
Speaker 1: but that is absolutely true about it, is two things. One,
Speaker 1: if you're reacting to something that means there's something existential there.
Speaker 1: You may not consciously know what it is. You may
Speaker 1: just get a bad feeling and you can't put your
Speaker 1: finger on it, but you can guarantee you're responding to
Speaker 1: something existential. And number two is it is in your
Speaker 1: best interest to listen to that voice. And that's why
Speaker 1: I put exercises about intuition in the book to help
Speaker 1: people get back in touch with that and to start
Speaker 1: listening to that little, tiny voice. And every time every
Speaker 1: one of us, even professionals, make mistakes, is when we
Speaker 1: ignore that intuition over and over again. That's it. Dan, Hey,
Speaker 1: I could sit here and talk to you all day long.
Speaker 1: I know you're a busy man. I want to thank
Speaker 1: you for joining us today on Software Pradio. We really
Speaker 1: appreciate your time, and uh we encourage all of our
Speaker 1: readers to buy Dan's book, The Power of Awareness. It
Speaker 1: comes out. I was gonna say June one again June two,
Speaker 1: but especially for those who aren't uh you know, trained
Speaker 1: military type personnel. For the civilians out there, this is
Speaker 1: a really good book, especially if you do a lot
Speaker 1: of traveling, but it will help you in everyday life.
Speaker 1: When you go downtown. We all know there's bad folks
Speaker 1: out there, so um, this will keep you safe and
Speaker 1: it may just save your life. So Dan, thanks again
Speaker 1: for joining us today. We really appreciate it. Steve, It's
Speaker 1: been my pleasure. And for folks that are listening, I'll
Speaker 1: be in Fort Walton Beach on Herbert Field on June four,
Speaker 1: but for anyone from the soft community, I'll be Fort
Speaker 1: Bragg June five. I'll be in Southern Pines at the
Speaker 1: Country Bookshop at nine am. If you just google the
Speaker 1: Country Bookshop there in Southern Pines, I'd love to meet you.
Speaker 1: I'm doing an hour long presentation. We're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: personal safety, but the final thing I'd leave you with
Speaker 1: Steve and all your listeners is you know, the skills
Speaker 1: that are in this are not just about defensive actions
Speaker 1: and and avoidance of crime, situational awareness and intuition. They're
Speaker 1: very positive things there. How you make great business strategy,
Speaker 1: how you can forge business relationships, how you can even
Speaker 1: find love. So I think it's it's a lot more
Speaker 1: valuable than just that, and I hope people get a
Speaker 1: positive takeaway from the book. But keep up the great work.
Speaker 1: You guys are doing a fantastic job with your show,
Speaker 1: and I appreciate you having me on anytime, and we'd
Speaker 1: love to have you back on in the future. Happy
Speaker 1: to do it, just hit me up all right. For
Speaker 1: all of us here at software at Bradio, we want
Speaker 1: to thank you all for listening. Thanks to our guests,
Speaker 1: Dan Chilling. We'll be back with another podcast real soon.
Speaker 1: Love them listening to self rep Lydia