Speaker 1: Well, fucker's It's Christina Hutchinson and Karin Fisher. You're about
Speaker 1: to listen to a clip from our podcast, Guys, We
Speaker 1: Fuck the Anti Slush I Mean podcast, And on this
Speaker 1: week's episode, we interview comedian Katie Boyle and we get
Speaker 1: deep into a family trauma running away You know what
Speaker 1: is love? If you want to listen to the whole thing,
Speaker 1: head on over to Apple Dot ceo slash GWF. So
Speaker 1: my parents broke up when I was five. My mother
Speaker 1: was pretty violent. She's a very aggressive, not mentally well person.
Speaker 1: So I stayed with her till I was eighteen, and
Speaker 1: then I caught her out. And I have a great
Speaker 1: relationship with my father, but went your war together, So
Speaker 1: it's more like a big brother than a dad. Did
Speaker 1: anybody what So you would see violence on your mom's
Speaker 1: part towards you, towards your dad? Yeah? Yeah, towards My
Speaker 1: dad would lock us in the bathroom to get away
Speaker 1: from her, and she would just throw herself up against
Speaker 1: the bathroom mommy. Yeah, it's pretty mental. Did he ever
Speaker 1: explain it to you like this isn't normal? Yeah? He
Speaker 1: he one time, and I remember this, and he's really
Speaker 1: told it to me since as well. But he had
Speaker 1: me sitting on the toilet sea while she was like
Speaker 1: banging up against the door and he was smoking a
Speaker 1: cigarette and he was like, I hope you're learning how
Speaker 1: not to behave Oh, okay, that's not really explaining it.
Speaker 1: It was great, you know, it really was great because
Speaker 1: over the years she's done some stuff and I would
Speaker 1: see stuff like fights with friends or with her job
Speaker 1: or where her family and things she did to me,
Speaker 1: and I always thought, this isn't how you should behave,
Speaker 1: Like I've modeled my personality of being the opposite. That's yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true because I think one of the reasons I
Speaker 1: said is you were coming in like I'm going through ship,
Speaker 1: So I'm probably just gonna ask you about how you
Speaker 1: cut your mom off and how was it for you
Speaker 1: realizing that my mom was just complete narcissist And it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: that wasn't she she The hardest part you need to
Speaker 1: realize is that she'll never she never loved you, because
Speaker 1: that's not what love is. So it's like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: a good It's sad, but it's also okay, flip the
Speaker 1: switch and that's not the accepted behavior. So it seems
Speaker 1: like you were taught pretty early on then that's not
Speaker 1: how to behave. But also that's not a mother. That's
Speaker 1: not a loving mother. Yeah. The love thing is weird
Speaker 1: because I've dated a lot of men who are like
Speaker 1: my mother, and I think it's because I thought that's
Speaker 1: what love was. Okay, So like abusive people, yeah, emotionally
Speaker 1: like literally where my friends or family have been like,
Speaker 1: we need to intervene your dating your mother. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: a couple of guys. But the past two years and
Speaker 1: the pandemic have been really good because I've been aware
Speaker 1: of it and I'm trying to step away from it,
Speaker 1: and I've been dating much nicer guys. So but it
Speaker 1: took me to be like, oh, this isn't love. I
Speaker 1: guess you're repeating the same exact way of relating to somebody. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like I had an X and he checked my pulse
Speaker 1: to see if I was lying. And my friends like that,
Speaker 1: what I know, They're like, that's crazy, that's a Robert's
Speaker 1: and nero and meet the parents. That's a good way
Speaker 1: of talking, insane and just one of the things you did.
Speaker 1: And the thing that I'm so used to my mother
Speaker 1: like she would have these like violent outbursts and like
Speaker 1: trow things, and I just would stay calm the whole time.
Speaker 1: And that's how how I taught myself, because if you
Speaker 1: ever reacted, she would flip out more so you kind
Speaker 1: of nearly won and it would be over quicker. So
Speaker 1: then with dating these guys, I'm just like easy going
Speaker 1: with it. And I wasn't lying when he checked my
Speaker 1: bull so I was like whatever. And then when I
Speaker 1: didn't dawn on, you know, and I did a joke
Speaker 1: of it and on stage, and my friends are like,
Speaker 1: I really have that's really crazy. And then I told
Speaker 1: my dad and he was like, you don't want to
Speaker 1: see it's crazy because that stuff your mother would do, right,
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, so that's a normal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because it's like the foundation that you're you were raised on,
Speaker 1: So that's that's whatever that is as normal, And like,
Speaker 1: I would never do that to anybody, but it's just
Speaker 1: I have a high tolerance for when it's done to me.
Speaker 1: I guess I yes, yeah, it's I don't know if
Speaker 1: you felt this way, but I'm one of the things
Speaker 1: I'm going through is uh, I feel like a fucking
Speaker 1: insane person. But the whole time. And this whole time
Speaker 1: I was trying to fit myself, like I got really
Speaker 1: into self help and really into understanding behavioral patterns and
Speaker 1: what's normal not whatever. And then I realized, this whole time,
Speaker 1: I've been trying to fix me, and it wasn't me,
Speaker 1: it was her. It was my mom. Like it. I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously there's things that I do that I need to change,
Speaker 1: but uh, I was I was working on the wrong thing.
Speaker 1: I need to actually cut her out, Like that's the
Speaker 1: well if you stay in a relationship with her, and
Speaker 1: I'm just presuming it's similar. And I've talked to a
Speaker 1: few other people who have had similar parents and they
Speaker 1: feel guilty. This really annoys me. Because you're with an
Speaker 1: abusive man, people will say break up with them, but
Speaker 1: when it's a parent, but it's your culture, you gotta
Speaker 1: love them. I felt crazy when I was with her,
Speaker 1: and the last thirteen years, I've felt saying her and
Speaker 1: saying her each year because you're trying to have conversations
Speaker 1: with someone who's a logical, so there's no logic, so
Speaker 1: it makes you feel I've had her say things like that,
Speaker 1: I said that, I didn't say. She's even done on
Speaker 1: my podcast, like we've been spoken in thirteen years, and
Speaker 1: she said I said stuff on my podcast that I
Speaker 1: didn't say. So I'm like, well, this is great because
Speaker 1: just proof we can just play it back now I
Speaker 1: haven't had conversation whatever it was with my cousin. My
Speaker 1: cousin was like, did you just play That's not what
Speaker 1: she said, you know, But it's like it's like having
Speaker 1: a conversation with people like that. It's like banging your
Speaker 1: head against the wall because you're not It makes you
Speaker 1: you can't get through to the person. And it's my
Speaker 1: therapist is explained to me multiple times during every session
Speaker 1: that we have that a child is never going to
Speaker 1: face the music on the fact that a mom or
Speaker 1: dad can't take care of them. When you're a little,
Speaker 1: little little kid, you're going to internalize it just because
Speaker 1: if you really accept that you're going to die, like
Speaker 1: it's just not you're you'll go insane. As a child,
Speaker 1: your psyche will break. So it's almost like to protect
Speaker 1: your psyche. And then when you get older, if you
Speaker 1: don't catch what has been happening the whole time, then
Speaker 1: you're like, he's really gonna break And you're like well
Speaker 1: us now we're in a pilot ship. Huh. It's a
Speaker 1: wild It's nice as well though when you are in
Speaker 1: adult and you're like, oh, I was a kid. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Whereas when you're a kid, when you're able to look
Speaker 1: at it and go, oh my god, I would never
Speaker 1: treat my child like that or would never do that,
Speaker 1: like it's it's it's crazy how it plays in your
Speaker 1: romantic life. It really fucks up who you're attracted to,
Speaker 1: and it it doesn't a lot of times, it won'td
Speaker 1: on on you until somebody will say like, hah, that
Speaker 1: jokey did. That's not true. Right, You're like, well it
Speaker 1: is true, and they're like that's sucked up, and like
Speaker 1: oh and that was just one of many things he did.
Speaker 1: But like again, it's all similar stuff that my mother did.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm so happy. And well, I mean you
Speaker 1: said she had does she have a mental illness or
Speaker 1: I think so it's never she's never gone undiagnosed. Just yah,
Speaker 1: it's undiagnosed. And I guess for like examples of what
Speaker 1: she would do is well, she would fight about anything.
Speaker 1: You could say I like green grass, and she'd be like,
Speaker 1: what do you mean I'm a terrible mother. So it's like,
Speaker 1: so she was always she was always throwing back at
Speaker 1: you that you think you're a terrible mom, and pushing
Speaker 1: you to the point of view saying, actually, you're right,
Speaker 1: so let's all be in the matrix. You can explode
Speaker 1: and all leave. Yeah. I used to actually dig my
Speaker 1: nails into my neck to stop myself reacting to her,
Speaker 1: just because I knew. But she would be like stereotypical
Speaker 1: stuff like look what you made me do or look
Speaker 1: how you how you made me, but like stuff like
Speaker 1: one minute, should be brushing her hair and like crying
Speaker 1: in the mirror over my father. Next minute she was like,
Speaker 1: let's laugh. Next minute she blaming at me for breathing
Speaker 1: too loud while we're oh my god. She'd make me
Speaker 1: sleep with her in her bed for years, okay, so
Speaker 1: on and off, and then when I would sleep in
Speaker 1: the bed with her, she would wake me up every
Speaker 1: couple of hours saying that I was breathing too loud
Speaker 1: or is moving too much, so I wouldn't and that's
Speaker 1: engulfing to the mad like that's that's one that's that's extreme,
Speaker 1: and it's just like an example. So I always try
Speaker 1: to think of examples for when people find out I
Speaker 1: don't speak to her because and not to rat her
Speaker 1: out either because like sure, but being honest about an
Speaker 1: abusive situation is how other people realize that they're an
Speaker 1: abusive situations. Yeah, are not even that. It's like people
Speaker 1: can't put themselves in your shoes because they have great parents.
Speaker 1: They can't relate, they can't understand. So I always have
Speaker 1: like these snippet of things where I'm like, I know,
Speaker 1: this isn't normal, this isn't the way it should have been.
Speaker 1: Like she did some really fucked up ship that I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's like kind of guilty. It would be like yeah,
Speaker 1: not even just guilt. But um, this one's well, it's
Speaker 1: safe to say here because she does listen to my podcast.
Speaker 1: She tried to get me canceled and everything, even though
Speaker 1: we've been spoken into her mom t yeah, well it
Speaker 1: was her sisters that she's also a bit mental. But
Speaker 1: they were like, oh she said that, ka that her.
Speaker 1: She said that she was abused and that makes people
Speaker 1: think sexual abuse, which you didn't mean. Des talked about
Speaker 1: emotional abuse and how we both experienced it, um and yeah,
Speaker 1: and then was just like this is ridiculous. He was
Speaker 1: likely upset about it, but emotional abuse can sneak by you.
Speaker 1: One of the books that I was reading about this,
Speaker 1: because the click that I just had was because I'm
Speaker 1: reading these books about narcissistic mothers and it's like a
Speaker 1: stranger author. Actually she was from Ireland, the first one
Speaker 1: I was listening to, just just listing every single thing,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, they talked about like a narcissic
Speaker 1: mother's obsessed with their daughter's virginity, and that's exactly I mean.
Speaker 1: And then I looked back at that that. You know,
Speaker 1: my mom had asked me when I was sixteen if
Speaker 1: I was a virgin in a restaurant. I did not
Speaker 1: even question that that was a completely inappropriate thing to
Speaker 1: say to your child, let alone in public. Didn't even
Speaker 1: wouldn't even have crossed my mind. She got up ran
Speaker 1: to the car and I was like, okay, I didn't
Speaker 1: talk to me. And so it's like they see you
Speaker 1: as an extension of them, and you are their doll.
Speaker 1: You're the daughter of a marcissistic mother. Is the mother's doll,
Speaker 1: not a child. You have no sense of self. That's
Speaker 1: so true because my mother put like um deodan on
Speaker 1: me when I was like eight and stuff when I
Speaker 1: didn't want it. Yeah, I remember this. But I remember
Speaker 1: my dad being upset because I had like a really
Speaker 1: bad chest infection and when I visited him, he had
Speaker 1: to take me to the hospital and he was like,
Speaker 1: and he was the sweat wasn't getting out of your glan.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if it was anything
Speaker 1: to do with but it was more just that she
Speaker 1: would like dress me up and like try to put
Speaker 1: makeup on me when was younger. Now I don't wear
Speaker 1: makeup at all, which is so funny. But and he
Speaker 1: was like upset because he was like, wow, that's literally
Speaker 1: like you're she's not looking after your actual health. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it was. I see. It's just like well, and
Speaker 1: it's culture. Culture is so interesting to me because I've
Speaker 1: been talking to a couple of people that I'm working
Speaker 1: on some projects with and they're younger. One of them
Speaker 1: is my age, one of them is younger than me,
Speaker 1: and um, one of the women was is a different
Speaker 1: culture and Latino culture, and she was saying that she
Speaker 1: thought it was her culture. She was I was telling her, Hey,
Speaker 1: I need to take a break for like August, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna do me. This is why I'm making these.
Speaker 1: I'm just very upfront about what's going on to people,
Speaker 1: Like I just realized that my mom's narcissis. Liked ice,
Speaker 1: trust her and we were close, so um, and then
Speaker 1: she starts telling me stories and I'm like, whoa, whoa
Speaker 1: wa wait, your mom's bullying you wait, what the fuck?
Speaker 1: And then I and then I talked to somebody else
Speaker 1: about it and they're like, yo, my mom does that too.
Speaker 1: I'm like, hold on one second, it's like this, like
Speaker 1: and a couple of people thought, oh, I thought that
Speaker 1: was cultural that my mom was doing this. And it's
Speaker 1: interesting how culture makes you think, oh, you know, it
Speaker 1: gives it an excuse and then you don't want to
Speaker 1: say anything negative about your your mom because one thing
Speaker 1: a lot of cultures have in common is the matriarch.
Speaker 1: You know, you just don't. You don't upset your mother,
Speaker 1: You don't disturb your mother, you don't. Yeah, well, you're
Speaker 1: also attached as well, because, like I remember my cousin saying,
Speaker 1: like years later, she was like, we upset. Well. I
Speaker 1: came home one time and she was like, you know,
Speaker 1: do you want to come visit your mother. And I
Speaker 1: was like now, and she was like why And I
Speaker 1: told her snippets of like really things that I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, that I realized were actually really bad, and
Speaker 1: she got upset and she started to cry and she
Speaker 1: was like, why didn't you tell us? And I was like,
Speaker 1: because nobody asked, I didn't know. How was I meant to?
Speaker 1: And like years later, you know, I have talked to
Speaker 1: my father about it and been like you you were
Speaker 1: the one person who knew. But he also was young,
Speaker 1: and he if he had a state there, I'm sure
Speaker 1: like she pushed him and push him and be like
Speaker 1: hit me, hit me. It sounds like it. I think
Speaker 1: him doing five years was like a lot. And he
Speaker 1: you know, he's a veteran of war and so are you.
Speaker 1: And if I didn't, if he hadn't met my stepmother,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have seen what an actual The way she
Speaker 1: is with my brother and sisters, like it's amazing. So
Speaker 1: every second weekend I was like, oh, this is this
Speaker 1: is normal. So I can't imagine for people who don't
Speaker 1: have that, Like I was very lucky. I made the
Speaker 1: decision that you would live with your mom instead of
Speaker 1: your dad. I don't know. I actually had a chat
Speaker 1: with my dad about it this last year because my
Speaker 1: sister said something that made me think about it, and
Speaker 1: it was something I never I also never wanted to
Speaker 1: have that heavy conversation with my dad because it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I have one parent that I'm really close to it,
Speaker 1: but I don't remember my mother before I was five,
Speaker 1: I'm going to a therapist and her saying, you have
Speaker 1: to say you want to live with me, You'll never
Speaker 1: see me again, You'll never see a grandmother again. I
Speaker 1: was very close to my grandmother and the childis asked me,
Speaker 1: they said who do you want to live in and
Speaker 1: I said my mother. But I can't imagine that had
Speaker 1: any weight. But I thought for my whole life that
Speaker 1: it did. But now that I'm urting, I'm like, I
Speaker 1: don't think. But also, fathers in Ireland at the time
Speaker 1: didn't have much rights, because I do remember like being
Speaker 1: like eight or ten or eight nine or ten and
Speaker 1: a lot of Irish men doing a protest in Ireland
Speaker 1: about the lack of rights they get after a divorce.
Speaker 1: So he might be nice to know that they wanted
Speaker 1: the rights. Yeah, yeah, definitely over the kid, over custody, right,
Speaker 1: they want we're talking more custody. Yeah, at the time,
Speaker 1: but it's also like the women got everything. They got
Speaker 1: like great child benefits, the house, everything, question kind of
Speaker 1: my dad like paid for the house and she got everything,
Speaker 1: and like that's fine. I was living in it. But
Speaker 1: it's like that we're being abused. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 1: if it was physical abuse, someone would have been able
Speaker 1: to see that the bruises on your body and step in,
Speaker 1: But because it's emotional abuse, no one's going to know
Speaker 1: until somebody pointed out to you years later. It's like
Speaker 1: still down. Like I remember that she was throwing plates
Speaker 1: around the place. She always did this, but she was
Speaker 1: screaming and like it was really insane and and it
Speaker 1: was so loud that a neighbor came in and it
Speaker 1: was going on for me an hour and he was like,
Speaker 1: what's going on? And he looked at me and she
Speaker 1: was like tell him you you said there was a
Speaker 1: mouse and it gave me a fright and I was
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, there was a mouse, and he was
Speaker 1: like okay, and that was it. So it's like wow.
Speaker 1: So nobe ever was like, Katie, are you okay? I
Speaker 1: just don't think people want to, especially in Ireland, just
Speaker 1: say come into your gossip. People don't want to get
Speaker 1: involved in the people's business. Yeah, what a fucker's We
Speaker 1: hope you love that excerpt from our interview with comedian
Speaker 1: Katie Boyle. If you want to hear the rest of
Speaker 1: the conversation, including stories about you know, how to know
Speaker 1: that your mom's fucking monitudes, head on over to Apple
Speaker 1: dot ceo slash g WF. That's right, you can get
Speaker 1: a luminary subscription on the Apple Store Apple podcast app.
Speaker 1: That's Apple dot ceo slash g WF.