Speaker 1: What up Fucker's It's Christina Hutchinson and Karin Fisher. You're
Speaker 1: about to listen to a clip from Guys We Fucked,
Speaker 1: the anti slut shaming podcast. Today we are interviewing author
Speaker 1: podcasts are all around British hot babe Dolly Alderton. We
Speaker 1: talk about her the release of her novel Ghosts in
Speaker 1: the US, relationships, talking about relationships publicly, you know, growing
Speaker 1: up as a woman in the world who is you know,
Speaker 1: being exploitative with her love life but also wants to
Speaker 1: have a private love life. It's really fun. It's a
Speaker 1: long time coming, and if you want to listen to
Speaker 1: the entire episode, you're gonna go to Apple dot, ceo
Speaker 1: slash GWF where you can subscribe to Luminary, which is
Speaker 1: where this podcast lives. Enjoy every time I hear you
Speaker 1: guys talk about like some person some listener who's being
Speaker 1: like super fucking creepy and in the dead of night
Speaker 1: and like watching all your stories and liking things too fast.
Speaker 1: I'm like, here's my shout up. They're talking about me. No,
Speaker 1: I never noticed when people at what time people DM me?
Speaker 1: And like the liking thing that all goes over my head.
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not as observant as as one would think,
Speaker 1: or maybe not one wouldn't think I'm observant, but but
Speaker 1: we really appreciate you being such not only being a
Speaker 1: fan of the show, but like spreading the word. I
Speaker 1: feel like I feel like we have a really substantial
Speaker 1: audience in England because of you and I that's amazing.
Speaker 1: We're crediting you with all of it. Yeah, you're single
Speaker 1: handedly that every one of our British fans. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: just completely obsessed to you, guys. I've been listening to
Speaker 1: you since I was like twenty seven, and you've accompanied
Speaker 1: me on so many different journeys and when I'm traveling
Speaker 1: and sad times in good times and weirdly meet the
Speaker 1: way I feel about you too has helped me understand
Speaker 1: why so many people were psychotic about my podcast, because
Speaker 1: I know that if you two decided to stop the podcast,
Speaker 1: I would be like so livid. And that happened when
Speaker 1: you stopped your podcast with Pandora. Yeah, people would just
Speaker 1: really really deeply hurt and invested. Yeah, really grieved it.
Speaker 1: And that was a bit of disconnect I couldn't really understand,
Speaker 1: but I honestly do look at the way I feel
Speaker 1: about you two, and how just like inappropriately one way
Speaker 1: intimate I feel with you too. It is one way intimacy.
Speaker 1: It's true, It's truly, it really is, and it's you're getting.
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like with Guys we Funked, it's
Speaker 1: very intimate and that a lot of times sometimes my
Speaker 1: good friends I don't have these conversations with like in
Speaker 1: real life just because you know, I I we I
Speaker 1: use Guys we Funked as a place to dissect my
Speaker 1: own desires and thoughts and it's really unique. So I
Speaker 1: think that you are getting like it is intimate and well,
Speaker 1: like I'm reading this book on attachments and building bonds
Speaker 1: and how intimacy is necessary to build a bond, and
Speaker 1: it's almost scientifically like it makes you connected to one
Speaker 1: of other, like when you and a friend sharing to
Speaker 1: mid stories or whatever. And so I do it makes
Speaker 1: sense why we have that relationship with the listeners or
Speaker 1: why they have the reaction to guys. Um, so your
Speaker 1: friend do you friend? Do you close friends? Listen every week? No?
Speaker 1: My best friend lesson? I mean, actually I have too
Speaker 1: much best friends the mail one lessons every week? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: obviously his full name is Great. I'm like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: he's really good scheduling and he's a therapist, so I
Speaker 1: like that he lessens, you know, just to basically like
Speaker 1: double track the advice that we give, so we're not like,
Speaker 1: you know, this way off base. Oh I know. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: And and also to Kurt and I've I've listened to
Speaker 1: other podcasts that like do like sex and dating advice
Speaker 1: just to see like what everybody's saying. Like Dan Savage,
Speaker 1: I listened to his podcast almost every week, um, because
Speaker 1: he is the godfather of sex advice. But it's interesting
Speaker 1: to see how other people doll out advice and the
Speaker 1: types of problems that a listener asks other podcast holes.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, we really do have a more intimate
Speaker 1: relationship with our listeners than other podcasts out there, because
Speaker 1: like someone like Dan Savage doesn't get as personal about
Speaker 1: his life the way we do. Yeah. And also I
Speaker 1: think what's so interesting about the because I'm an acne
Speaker 1: on as well, Like you know, is agone on the
Speaker 1: term over there, it's like a a like a problem page.
Speaker 1: So in a newspaper here I have people writing every
Speaker 1: week and I kind of help solve their problems. And
Speaker 1: something I find so interesting about the problems that you
Speaker 1: guys get is that your listeners know that when they're
Speaker 1: going to disappoint you. Like increasingly, I've noticed that people
Speaker 1: who send your problems every other sentence is a caveat
Speaker 1: of like, I know, I'm being a massively dumb bit,
Speaker 1: which I'm so proud of them for realizing, because I
Speaker 1: feel like that's that's how you develop your own superpower.
Speaker 1: I feel like and I have this superpower, our own
Speaker 1: individual superpowers that we can impart onto the listeners by
Speaker 1: just planning a little seed of like, oh, now you
Speaker 1: can ask yourself that question instead of being in front
Speaker 1: of us and us asking it. So it's kind of nice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're totally right, and that makes my heart very happy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, because I kind of always envisioned you
Speaker 1: as like the Carrie Bradshaw of the UK with having
Speaker 1: a column in the newspaper. I mean, what has that?
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about like how
Speaker 1: you decided to do that, how you got that position,
Speaker 1: and what it's been like throughout the years, because I
Speaker 1: think it's like the most classic way to give relationship
Speaker 1: advice and it's very cool that you get to do that.
Speaker 1: Oh thanks, you know it is. It's kind of ended
Speaker 1: up being the dream gig because when I was in
Speaker 1: my early mid twenties, I was right, you know, that
Speaker 1: like a boom around two thousand and twelve where it
Speaker 1: was just mediocre white women like me getting paid like
Speaker 1: a hundred dollars an article to just like talk about
Speaker 1: the g spot like basically yeah, a lot of yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: well that was the Yeah. I was really a part
Speaker 1: of that boom and um, and I was doing that
Speaker 1: until I was about twenty six, and then a friend
Speaker 1: of mine who who edited me at one of those
Speaker 1: online magazines, went over to the Sunday Times Style supplement
Speaker 1: and they were looking for a dating columnist and basis,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys find this, And this
Speaker 1: is when, like, I know, there's a big reckoning at
Speaker 1: the moment about how much we asked young female writers
Speaker 1: to share of themselves. But really, me being like so
Speaker 1: promiscuously truthful and so such an exhibitionist and so happy
Speaker 1: to talk about my sex life really fucking launched my
Speaker 1: career because no one else really wanted to do it.
Speaker 1: And I obviously now the thought of doing it is
Speaker 1: appalling to me, but age it's kind of the perfect
Speaker 1: time to do it. And there weren't that many other
Speaker 1: single girls willing to talk about it because they had
Speaker 1: boundaries with them selfs respect. Seems like the Brits are
Speaker 1: a little shy when it comes to sex talking about sex,
Speaker 1: or at least historically. Like I remember when Karna and
Speaker 1: I did our run at what theater, the Soho Theater
Speaker 1: in London. It was so interesting to see how shy
Speaker 1: everybody was. But then once we needed the dough a
Speaker 1: little bit, they were just floodgates open, so it was
Speaker 1: almost like they were sitting like waiting, but you really
Speaker 1: had to get through these these walls that were put
Speaker 1: up American permission. Yeah, when you when you say needing
Speaker 1: the dough, I think you mean like them guzzling three
Speaker 1: bottles of Sauvignon blow possibly, Yeah, is that like? Is
Speaker 1: that is that an something that you've picked up on
Speaker 1: living there, because I know it's hard like when you
Speaker 1: grow up there is totally Yeah. I was even thinking
Speaker 1: about it today actually because I now I really do
Speaker 1: try not to talk about my sex life and my
Speaker 1: love life at tool really anymore. And I don't rise
Speaker 1: about it anymore, just because I rung that at flannels
Speaker 1: so dry. And then obviously my memoir was published. Suddenly
Speaker 1: I had so many more people interested in the details
Speaker 1: and the specifics of my life, and I felt so exposed,
Speaker 1: which obviously all my own doing. Um that now I'm
Speaker 1: much more boundaried. And then I was like, I can't
Speaker 1: go on, guys we fund my favorite podcast and be boundaried.
Speaker 1: And it's weird, Like that thing that you guys talk
Speaker 1: about about shame. I always think that I'm someone who's
Speaker 1: like quite free of sexual shame, and then I really
Speaker 1: think about people knowing about my sexual proclivities or about
Speaker 1: what turns me on, and it mortifies and it makes
Speaker 1: me realize there must be some shame there that I'm
Speaker 1: not even aware of or or or I would venture
Speaker 1: to say, maybe it doesn't feel good for the whole
Speaker 1: world to know what makes your pussy wet. Yeah, intimate,
Speaker 1: that's intimate, like, and it's something that's that is something
Speaker 1: that's supposed to be shared. Because I totally hear you
Speaker 1: on that, and I myself have been like, oh, it's
Speaker 1: easy for me because I haven't had sex in so
Speaker 1: long and I'm not dating anybody, so that areas I
Speaker 1: can't talk about it if I wanted to because nothing's happening.
Speaker 1: But I will say when I start dating again, I
Speaker 1: don't know how open I'm gonna be because I want
Speaker 1: to save that for me and the guy. I don't
Speaker 1: want to. I don't want to do something just to
Speaker 1: talk about it, and I don't want to feel like
Speaker 1: I'm doing that, and I want to be intimate. I
Speaker 1: can't imagine how that guy would feel like I'm not.
Speaker 1: That's that's something that's shared between the two of you.
Speaker 1: So I think having it, keeping it there is nice
Speaker 1: for all that, for all of it seems that I
Speaker 1: have shared, I have not shared that much. You know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: way to do it where you lean into certain parts
Speaker 1: and really share a hun percent of those. But like
Speaker 1: pretty much the whole time, uh, I was dating like
Speaker 1: my ex who the main X from the show, Like
Speaker 1: I I kept a lot of stuff to myself, both
Speaker 1: good and bad. I had to restart myself there when
Speaker 1: you said curin my ex from the main show, I
Speaker 1: had stopping this from being like I know him and
Speaker 1: I hate him. You're not wanting to share it doesn't
Speaker 1: necessarily mean you have shame. I think it's intimacy. Is
Speaker 1: intimacy for a reason, and that's because not everybody knows
Speaker 1: about it and it's just your own secret, private thing
Speaker 1: between you and another person. Yeah. Yeah, I was just
Speaker 1: gonna say, that's the thing about sex positivity. That's the
Speaker 1: only like fault that I can find in the movement
Speaker 1: of Like if we're so positive about all of it
Speaker 1: all the time and we're being so all the time,
Speaker 1: none of it's fucking dirty and dark and secret anymore.
Speaker 1: And that's what's really right, right, No, I agree. I
Speaker 1: Like that's like what kind of wears me out about
Speaker 1: like usually like sex parties or like you know, kind
Speaker 1: of like things like that nature that are more open
Speaker 1: like the sex actual community. What what turns me away
Speaker 1: from it is like there's too much openness almost, there's
Speaker 1: too much conversation, there's too much openness, and then there's
Speaker 1: no surprise. So where does that leave us? And there
Speaker 1: was a weird overlap with anti slut shaving where it
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, so I'm gonna go out and fuck
Speaker 1: oh you Okay, I'm gonna go out and fuck three
Speaker 1: guys tonight, And it's gonna be awesome, and I'm an
Speaker 1: independent woman, and it's like okay, but you also have
Speaker 1: to really understand that there's balance, like do you have
Speaker 1: a balanced sex life? And every person knows what balance
Speaker 1: feels like, whether they pretend to not or whatever. But
Speaker 1: so it's like if you're if you're talking about maybe
Speaker 1: your sex life is not balanced, you're kind of fucking
Speaker 1: around and doing this stuff to a point where it
Speaker 1: seems like you're filling a void. I feel like that's
Speaker 1: that was that's like a gray area that's crept up
Speaker 1: recently where it's like, well, don't shame me for fucking everybody. Well,
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, it's not that. It's more like encouraging
Speaker 1: people to have a balanced life, and with balanced comes disclosure,
Speaker 1: like what you talk about, what you don't talk about,
Speaker 1: and kind of you know, I think that people can
Speaker 1: be imbalanced when they talk about sucking too much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel My friend has Um recently submerged herself in
Speaker 1: the like sex was into kink community, and I did warnhouse,
Speaker 1: like by the way that all loses not what you
Speaker 1: think they are, And sure enough, within a week she
Speaker 1: was talking to a guy and he sent over a
Speaker 1: spreadsheet and Excel spreadsheet of like all the things that
Speaker 1: they could do, and she had to like fill in
Speaker 1: in a column whether she would like let know or maybe,
Speaker 1: And that is where it's yeah, yeah, yeah, And it's
Speaker 1: like it's lovely and like there should be concerned, but
Speaker 1: like there's a part where it's like, I don't want
Speaker 1: to feel like I'm my parents are signing off on
Speaker 1: me going on a field trip. You know, it's a
Speaker 1: little too much. It's weird. Did you ever feel like
Speaker 1: when you were writing the column in your twenties and
Speaker 1: being very open that you started doing, um, sexual activities
Speaker 1: performatively for father, for the show, for the column. So
Speaker 1: there's Sunday times, it's like, um, it's quite a conservative paper. Um,
Speaker 1: So it was mainly what's like, would I would never
Speaker 1: talk really graphically about sex. I would talk about who
Speaker 1: I was sleeping with and the frequency with which I
Speaker 1: was sleeping with people. I mean, it's so difficult. I'd
Speaker 1: love to know if you guys have this quandary. It's
Speaker 1: so difficult when I trace back, like what makes me
Speaker 1: constantly seek out interesting stories and basically maximum drama all
Speaker 1: the time, whether that was something I was worn with
Speaker 1: or you know, whether that's like an appetite for living
Speaker 1: or whether it's just that I started narrativizing my own
Speaker 1: life to make money at such a young age that
Speaker 1: I now feel a panic if I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: not collecting content at all times, because that definitely, like
Speaker 1: that was problem. That was definitely a problem with the
Speaker 1: dating column when I went into therapy for the first
Speaker 1: time and she was like, basically, I think you're a
Speaker 1: sex and love addict. She said, like you've basically you've got,
Speaker 1: you've you've give, You've worked out how to have a
Speaker 1: career that completely enables and like not only does it
Speaker 1: enable this hop it, but it like pays you money
Speaker 1: to go out and try and find as much romantic
Speaker 1: conflict and excitement in your life as possible. Um So, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think the toll answer your to your question is yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I probably did do that when I was
Speaker 1: trying to find material every week, but I think I've
Speaker 1: kind of been doing that my whole life anyway, Like
Speaker 1: I've got to read on it. Well, I think that
Speaker 1: we're on this planet to experience things, and when we
Speaker 1: experience something is when we are horizons are opened. Our
Speaker 1: curiosity is ignited, our creativity, whatever it is to have experiences,
Speaker 1: traveling as an experience, and one of one of the
Speaker 1: greatest experiences in intimacy and human connection is sex. So
Speaker 1: I think that yes, it could be done because you're
Speaker 1: chasing this um desire to share with people. You have
Speaker 1: this captive audience, and it's exciting to share with them
Speaker 1: because especially if you feel like, oh they're they're really
Speaker 1: feeling empowered from it. Um. So I think it's a
Speaker 1: probably combination of both, because I think that it's natural
Speaker 1: for human beings who want to chase experiences regardless. I
Speaker 1: mean I want to do if I want to do
Speaker 1: all the weird stuff, all the creepy like I wanna,
Speaker 1: I constantly want experiences, and so yeah, just checking in
Speaker 1: with yourself, going, am I doing this? I had a
Speaker 1: I had a three way. Uh. It was great with
Speaker 1: two dudes. One of them was a porn star and
Speaker 1: I'll never not brag about it. And but I'm like,
Speaker 1: and my favorite detail of it was that you were
Speaker 1: worried about you spell Like I was in the hospital
Speaker 1: days before with an I'm like, well, because I had
Speaker 1: one contact in and I'm like, oh, I fucked two
Speaker 1: men with one contact and because my sight is very bad,
Speaker 1: but a lot throughout that process, when I was like
Speaker 1: the guy that I was sleeping with that we had
Speaker 1: this idea together and we flew the guy in, I
Speaker 1: kept asking myself, like, you're doing this because this turns
Speaker 1: you on, right, And my answer was always yes, So well, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's my point, I think, because I think some people
Speaker 1: experience want to experienced things to experience them, and then
Speaker 1: some people want to experience them to talk about them
Speaker 1: to other people, to post about it on Instagram, to say, hey,
Speaker 1: look at me, I did this thing. And you could
Speaker 1: always feel when it's that um yeah you, I mean
Speaker 1: I can. But like, I also think that a lot
Speaker 1: of people are living very sad lives performatively, and I
Speaker 1: think it's important just like check in on that. It's
Speaker 1: not it's not an issue for people not in the
Speaker 1: entertainment business. Really, you know, it's it's kind of a
Speaker 1: it's kind of an issue only for people who entertain
Speaker 1: with their real lives, which is a small group of
Speaker 1: people were you'ven known for being yourself, Yeah, that ends
Speaker 1: up making you question your own actions. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: think it's just making sure that it's that it's not
Speaker 1: at the expense of other things, that it's not the
Speaker 1: expense of your integrity or your belief. So we wouldn't
Speaker 1: sure mental health. You know that that's the stuff that
Speaker 1: I think is really important with with checking in UM.
Speaker 1: But I ask, what, so what were your early attitudes
Speaker 1: about sex? What impressions were you given? Like what does
Speaker 1: schools in England? Do they cover sex education? I'm assuming
Speaker 1: they do, but and if so, what what kind of
Speaker 1: things were covered? I mean, I think it was probably
Speaker 1: as rubbish as it was in America. I remember a
Speaker 1: man and a woman walking through a house with like
Speaker 1: ginormous bushes, naked holding hands as a sorry video in
Speaker 1: school when I was ten. I remember it very very clearly.
Speaker 1: I remember being shown a video of birth when I
Speaker 1: was ten. Yeah, that we saw. They didn't see when
Speaker 1: I was ten, though, I saw when I was like
Speaker 1: fifteen maybe oh yeah, see I guys, Yeah, there was
Speaker 1: too soon for us. They showed you bush like this
Speaker 1: looks like that sounds like the beginnings of a porn No,
Speaker 1: it was just like it was very eighties, and I
Speaker 1: remember I remember obviously just being so excited by it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was. I was like a very horny,
Speaker 1: humpy kid. Um was there a lot of trauma in
Speaker 1: your household and you were doing it to soothe yourself?
Speaker 1: That's what it was. Weirdly, the other day, my friend
Speaker 1: and I went for lunch and afterwards we decided to
Speaker 1: go to this enormous in his toy store in London
Speaker 1: to go look at the bobbies. And because we're both
Speaker 1: not coping with adult life, and we were talking about
Speaker 1: the things that we would do with our barbies. She
Speaker 1: was like a little pervert girl as well, and we
Speaker 1: were talking about the things that barbies that would give
Speaker 1: us tingly feelings that we would know we would have
Speaker 1: to do it in private, but we wouldn't know why.
Speaker 1: So wait, did you what do you do with your barbies?
Speaker 1: Just like make them knock up against each other? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Oh I thought you were like fucking members of it. Okay, No,
Speaker 1: just wow, that's really a wolf. That's some grown ten
Speaker 1: year old ship. No. We were looking at like there
Speaker 1: was this mermaid tail that you attached to the tool server, Bobby,
Speaker 1: that you have to like fill with the squidgy glittery gel.
Speaker 1: And as we were talking about it, I was like,
Speaker 1: I would have known to have done that privately. I
Speaker 1: would have known to have done that in a locked bathroom.
Speaker 1: But weirdly, it wasn't like I didn't had a very happychildhood.
Speaker 1: I was very lucky. I had very lovely, loving parents. Um,
Speaker 1: but why talk to you about it? No? Not really.
Speaker 1: I think my mom is a bit. I think she
Speaker 1: thinks that she did talk to us about sex, and
Speaker 1: she did, but it was in quite a moralized way,
Speaker 1: like it's always about an expression of love, and I
Speaker 1: if I ever had kids, I think that's a bad
Speaker 1: way to go. Yeah, it can be expression of yourself
Speaker 1: you're on sexuality, like your existence on there. It doesn't
Speaker 1: always have to be because if you're if it's only
Speaker 1: about love, you're gonna feel bad about yourself any other
Speaker 1: time you do it. Yeah, and that's right before you're
Speaker 1: going to rob yourself of ever doing it when you're
Speaker 1: not in love, which I think is also a criminal
Speaker 1: kind of Yeah, exactly. And I also think as well
Speaker 1: that it then makes you feel enormous shame about having
Speaker 1: any sort of relationship with yourself. Right. Oh, yes, I
Speaker 1: would never even thought of that. Masturbation is like just
Speaker 1: such a not like it's such a non issue for me.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was like
Speaker 1: I was just it's I'm so fascinated by like when
Speaker 1: kids start getting horny, and it's like something I see
Speaker 1: my god children, and it's so it's like it makes
Speaker 1: people uncomfortable in a way like nothing else. It's so
Speaker 1: and it means so incredibly ignored. Um. But you know,
Speaker 1: they're very overwhelming, overpowering feelings that you get when you're
Speaker 1: like six or seven or Yeah. Absolutely really managed with
Speaker 1: me at all. I wish someone had talked to me
Speaker 1: about it a bit more. Yeah. I used to hump
Speaker 1: things all the time when I was a kid, like five, six,
Speaker 1: seven years old, and I thought I was so scared
Speaker 1: I was getting get pregnant. I didn't know anything about prey.
Speaker 1: I just knew that the woman gets pregnant and I
Speaker 1: don't I don't even think anybody told me involved sex.
Speaker 1: I was so young. I just but I was like,
Speaker 1: today's the day that I'm pregnant. Look in my underwear
Speaker 1: for blood because I thought that's how that's how Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, when how old were you both when you
Speaker 1: have that? When that conversation was had with you, oh,
Speaker 1: with a parent. My mom said there was two people
Speaker 1: having sex on the beach while we were on a
Speaker 1: family vacation, and she looks at me and goes, do
Speaker 1: you know what they're doing? And I go, yes, they
Speaker 1: talked to me about in school, and that was the
Speaker 1: most I've ever talked to her about something. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think. I mean, I'm a very hard to talk to.
Speaker 1: UM still am proud of it. Uh don't can on changing,
Speaker 1: but I uh no, I uh so. I think anytime,
Speaker 1: like my mom, I always knew my mom and my
Speaker 1: dad like we were open if we had any questions.
Speaker 1: They would never say like a question was bad or
Speaker 1: not answer a question that we had. Uh. But I
Speaker 1: anytime it was like it was brought up, I would
Speaker 1: be like, I don't need to know that. And I
Speaker 1: honestly learned everything I know from books and the internet.
Speaker 1: But that's just how I like to learn. And had
Speaker 1: I actually had a real pressing question, I think I
Speaker 1: would have asked it. But like my questions, I guess
Speaker 1: the questions I have about life or more about like
Speaker 1: why people behave in certain ways than the actual acts
Speaker 1: of sex, that to me I never found perplexing or
Speaker 1: even that interesting. Really, I'm like, yeah, I just figured
Speaker 1: it out. It wasn't that hard because to me, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: everyone's having sex. It can't be that hard because most
Speaker 1: people are idiots. And then I did it, and then
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I was right, like it's not
Speaker 1: like yeah, no, I just figured it out. And I
Speaker 1: also my first boyfriend, who I dated for five years,
Speaker 1: like right when I got into college, was extremely knowledgeable
Speaker 1: and patient and caring. So I did a lot of
Speaker 1: my learning with him because I didn't have sex in
Speaker 1: high school, had no intention on it, didn't want to
Speaker 1: have fun anyone from my New Jersey high school. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that was like that was like really my like true
Speaker 1: learning experience, and I'm very grateful for that. How has
Speaker 1: dating gone in your twenties? Like what's the arc of
Speaker 1: your like, because god, I love being in my thirties.
Speaker 1: It's so much better. But like when you were in
Speaker 1: your twenties, Like what what did that look like? Because
Speaker 1: for me it was just but I was like this
Speaker 1: is great when it actually wasn't and I didn't realize it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was like I mean I was I think I
Speaker 1: always knew that I wanted my twenties to be a
Speaker 1: time where I would be dating lots and those people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I'm so glad I did. I'm so so glad
Speaker 1: I did, particularly because I think I do want a
Speaker 1: family and I think the only way that I know
Speaker 1: that I will be able to do that with any
Speaker 1: semblance of serenity will be knowing that I had a
Speaker 1: lot of Did you explore a lot like you? Were
Speaker 1: you very like sexually explorative in terms of like did
Speaker 1: you go to sex clubs? Did you try three? Like?
Speaker 1: How how much have you played with? Yeah? No, I've
Speaker 1: never gone to a sex club. I've always really wanted to.
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to go with a girl. And I
Speaker 1: think that you basically need to find a friendship. There's
Speaker 1: like a naissance in a friendship with another horny girl
Speaker 1: where it's the perfect time for you to both go
Speaker 1: to sex club. It gets too weird, Like I don't
Speaker 1: really understand those I'm so close to the women in
Speaker 1: my life that like, I've got a team of women
Speaker 1: in my life that are like sisters, and I don't
Speaker 1: understand how how like I couldn't watch one of them
Speaker 1: get fun It would make me feel so weird. I
Speaker 1: understand that's really you you need, you need one of
Speaker 1: those like fun female friendships that feels like almost like
Speaker 1: you're on a fling with someone, but it's not. And
Speaker 1: that's hard. Like I feel like the older you get,
Speaker 1: the harder it is to you know, because when you're
Speaker 1: in your teens and twenties, you're consistently kind of taking
Speaker 1: on new female friends in that way. But it does
Speaker 1: add as you get older, because you know, people start
Speaker 1: getting married and being more serious and spending more time
Speaker 1: at their job so they don't have this like fairy
Speaker 1: fairy in the woods lifestyle that some of us can
Speaker 1: maintain for much longer, depending on our careers. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: totally agree. I've got like one friend where we definitely
Speaker 1: could have done it together, but she's she's fucking married
Speaker 1: with the baby now. But yeah, you know, it was
Speaker 1: quite experimental. It is quite you know, what kinds of
Speaker 1: stuff did you do? Um? Like, what were the highlights
Speaker 1: that you that come to your mind? Both good and bad? Um? Okay,
Speaker 1: here are the things that I wou be glad I
Speaker 1: did that I was when I was in my twenties,
Speaker 1: and I'm really glad that I slept with a woman.
Speaker 1: I'm really, really glad that I had like two big
Speaker 1: sexual relationships, like romantic relationships that felt like sexual awakenings
Speaker 1: in my twenties. Well, with one of my teams when
Speaker 1: I was eighteen with a much older guy, and it
Speaker 1: kind of like like with U, Karina just felt like
Speaker 1: someone he'd been in lots of long term relationships, which means,
Speaker 1: as we know, those people normally are the best understanding intimacy.
Speaker 1: It's so weird to me that we were often threatened
Speaker 1: by the idea of having a partner who's had lots
Speaker 1: of sexual lots of sexual partners and no relationships. It's
Speaker 1: like they're definitely not going to know how to have sex.
Speaker 1: I feel threatened with the people who have been in
Speaker 1: like four massive relationships of intimacy. Um. And yes, so
Speaker 1: that was like really that was really loving, and that
Speaker 1: was like someone just like teaching me about sex and
Speaker 1: teaching me about what that is is like an express
Speaker 1: chin and about my own body. And and then I
Speaker 1: had a relationship in my like mid late twenties with
Speaker 1: a guy who just made me completely shed all my
Speaker 1: inhibitions and like body consciousness. How how um, don't I
Speaker 1: just think you just really really adored me? In a
Speaker 1: way that I haven't been adored physically like that before,
Speaker 1: Like you know when someone when someone fancies you, and
Speaker 1: it's so beyond something cognitive, like there was something about
Speaker 1: the essence of me that just turned him on. And
Speaker 1: I don't think I've never had that before, like you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: being adored, like it's so important, like that's actually in
Speaker 1: the in the book that we talked about for a
Speaker 1: long time, like a year or so ago. I'm getting
Speaker 1: to I do. I mean, that's the main need of
Speaker 1: feminine energy is to be adored. And I think like
Speaker 1: that that's a very specific word that you don't hear
Speaker 1: adult women use enough. Like you you talk about when
Speaker 1: you talk about adoration a lot of times you're talking
Speaker 1: about a child, And I think it's important like to
Speaker 1: remember to adore your adore yourself, and to uh see
Speaker 1: wants adoration from others because it seems almost like I
Speaker 1: think adult women are almost taught that adoration is like
Speaker 1: narcissistic and it's absolutely not you should you should be
Speaker 1: adored by your partner and if you're not, I think
Speaker 1: there's a broad world absolutely, and adoration as well is
Speaker 1: something about you know, if you're someone who is insecure
Speaker 1: or self conscious or eager to please, which is most
Speaker 1: of us. I know it's not Ukraine, but most of
Speaker 1: us is. And um, I think that means that like
Speaker 1: love always seems conditional in your head, that like someone's
Speaker 1: going to fancy me if I'm look like this sort,
Speaker 1: if I this, or if I'm this funny, or if
Speaker 1: I'm mis clever, and there's something about and to be
Speaker 1: telling you honest, I don't know if I could do
Speaker 1: it in a long term relationship because I think I've
Speaker 1: realized since I turned thirty, in the relationships I've had,
Speaker 1: being obsessed with someone is actually way more important for
Speaker 1: me than someone being obsessed with me. But I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think once you've had that feeling of being
Speaker 1: a daughter of it, just like it being nothing about
Speaker 1: what you say and nothing about what you look like,
Speaker 1: it's something about the insights of you that just like
Speaker 1: if they could just bottle you and carry it around,
Speaker 1: they wouldn't. Yeah, it's really freeing, I think, yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So what kinds of things were you did you do
Speaker 1: with that guy that you were like that surprised you?
Speaker 1: He was just one of those men that was like
Speaker 1: so open to anything being thrown at him like, which
Speaker 1: is actually quite rare to find. I think, like give
Speaker 1: me an example, because I I have still not quite
Speaker 1: clear like finger up the buck kind of guy like
Speaker 1: sure like open autitude, all of it, b D s M,
Speaker 1: role play, stuff up the bottom, all the stuff that
Speaker 1: all the like you know bankers in southwest London that
Speaker 1: I dated in my early twenty about suite. No interesting.
Speaker 1: It was just like it's like, this is a this
Speaker 1: is a playground of two of us, and every nothing
Speaker 1: that you try to limit. Yeah, nothing that you want
Speaker 1: to try with me, I will, I will say no
Speaker 1: to nothing could embarrass us. Nothing, nothing that our bodies
Speaker 1: could do, you know, because bodies, as we know, unpredictable,
Speaker 1: particularly in sex, and that's very terrifying. I think as
Speaker 1: a young woman, war body or my body could do
Speaker 1: is going to face us. Let's try and trust. So
Speaker 1: you you actually had real deep trust sexually with this person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and total total intimacy in a way that I didn't like.
Speaker 1: I think it's fine, and I just in my head
Speaker 1: keep thinking it so luminary. It's fine, it's fine, it's
Speaker 1: un luminary. I don't think say her, I don't think
Speaker 1: I had a relationship up until that point where I
Speaker 1: hadn't faked in organism. Yeah. Wow, that's common. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: really common. It's like, it's amazing to me how many
Speaker 1: women I know is still still doing that. And something
Speaker 1: that I think is something that thinks so sad about
Speaker 1: the faking orgasms, particularly you're a long term relationship from
Speaker 1: a young woman. If you fake in orgasm early on,
Speaker 1: that is the bar that is set for that poor guy.
Speaker 1: So then if we're saying to yourself, my pleasure doesn't matter, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to and it only matters that he
Speaker 1: thinks I got And it's like, oh my god, that's
Speaker 1: like the opposite of authentically fucking like and it just
Speaker 1: becomes such a sog because it's like, my friend had
Speaker 1: this happened to her where after about like a year,
Speaker 1: so I'm just gonna not fake organisms anymore. And then
Speaker 1: she just would like wait to come for as long
Speaker 1: as it would take, and this poor guy would just
Speaker 1: be like, well, why are you're coming like you normally
Speaker 1: like normally I just have to look at you and
Speaker 1: stroke your tips. Right. Well, we just had a we
Speaker 1: interviewed like a what did she call herself like an
Speaker 1: orgasm expert sex intimacy coach Susan Bratton, and she was
Speaker 1: talking about she goes by the time the dick, if
Speaker 1: we're talking about straight people, says, people having sex, by
Speaker 1: the time the dick goes into the vagina, the four
Speaker 1: place should be such that it's so slow and so
Speaker 1: enticing that your whole body is throbbing. Then you will
Speaker 1: come from penetrative sex. And I'm like, you know, when
Speaker 1: you put it like that, you're absolutely goddamn right. But
Speaker 1: who tells you that, No one, Susan Brandon, that was it.
Speaker 1: That's the only like. But it makes all the sense
Speaker 1: in the world if you if you rev it up
Speaker 1: and you you you rev up the engine, you warm
Speaker 1: everything up, you warm your body up, and then by
Speaker 1: the time you actually have penetrative sex, if that's the
Speaker 1: young goal, then it's explosive. Yeah, it's so. I've got
Speaker 1: a friend who's like, very very connected to her sexual
Speaker 1: self and she's very like sexually eloquent and very sex
Speaker 1: positive in a very authentic way and in a non
Speaker 1: excelf cheat way. And she said to me once when
Speaker 1: I was talking, she was asking about four player and
Speaker 1: she was like, how much four play do you need
Speaker 1: or do you want? Ideally before penalty to sex. I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, ideal world an hour and I was like,
Speaker 1: how about you? And she was like about two weeks?
Speaker 1: And she before she was so hot the way she
Speaker 1: described it, she was like, before she has sex with someone,
Speaker 1: she will basically think of it as two weeks of
Speaker 1: four play and that can be everything from like the
Speaker 1: drink they have together today, the glances and nogging and
Speaker 1: you know, and then sending him on his way or
Speaker 1: and she was like, that's how long it takes me
Speaker 1: to properly warmup. We hope you love that. Excerpt from
Speaker 1: our interview with Dali Alderton. Her book Ghosts is now
Speaker 1: available for purchase in the US of A. If you
Speaker 1: want to hear the rest of our conversation and other
Speaker 1: full episodes of Guys We Fucked, head on over to
Speaker 1: the Luminary channel on Apple Podcasts. Just go to Apple
Speaker 1: dot CEO slash GWF. That's Apple dot cu slash g
Speaker 1: w F