Speaker 1: Welcome to Guys We Fucked. Guys We Guys Book. I'm Christina.
Speaker 1: I'm We're sorry about last night anti slut shaming podcast.
Speaker 1: I never stopped. Hey fucker's Welcome to another episode of
Speaker 1: Guys We Fuck. It's the anti slut shaming podcast. I
Speaker 1: am Karin um Christina. Oh man, you guys when you
Speaker 1: come to the shows that we do in places in
Speaker 1: New York City but also out of New York City,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming out and supporting number
Speaker 1: one Live Comedy and number two US because we were
Speaker 1: awesome and uh yeah we Whendy and I just got
Speaker 1: back from Austin, Texas and was fucking amazing everyone who
Speaker 1: came out and said hi and shared stories about what
Speaker 1: the podcast means to them. And one girl brought me
Speaker 1: this beautiful bouquet of flowers and won't girl got me
Speaker 1: a Yeager shot and I was not had not done
Speaker 1: yeager since Penn State. That like made me like run
Speaker 1: a lap. Yeah, yeah, I had a yeager hangover like
Speaker 1: last week and I was like, Rin, you're thirty years old,
Speaker 1: get it together. It's like, is there a cocaine and Yeager?
Speaker 1: It made me hyper? Well, isn't it. Aren't they trying
Speaker 1: to convince you that there's like a drop of deer
Speaker 1: blood in it. I mean, I think, really that's what
Speaker 1: they're selling. I thought they just wrote put a deer
Speaker 1: on it. I think that's I know. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure that's like the selling sailing. Really. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know what there actually is. That's the folklore about
Speaker 1: I think you guys are coming out to what I
Speaker 1: now know is Rosendale, New York and also the third
Speaker 1: most liberal city in the United States, the third. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean that's what the That's what they told me.
Speaker 1: Unless it was a lie. Were you saying Rosendale? I said,
Speaker 1: I didn't know what it was. I was like, it's
Speaker 1: either Rosendale Rosendale. But now I've confirmed I've been there.
Speaker 1: It was Rosendale. It was Rosendale. You were there were
Speaker 1: gun stores, but then everyone was like work that everybody
Speaker 1: that was not in Rosen was out on the way.
Speaker 1: Have you ever ulster a Cabella's. It's a basically a Walmart,
Speaker 1: but everything's a gun. Oh no, everything's a gun or
Speaker 1: a hunting vest. And there's a place in the Pennsylvanione
Speaker 1: called a gun library. And I was like, are you
Speaker 1: fucking kidding me. Yeah, See, in New Jersey were just
Speaker 1: not there's not a ton of like guns stuff. So
Speaker 1: I mean, besides, like in my school, you know, we
Speaker 1: had to install like metal detectors. That's the kind of
Speaker 1: guns I'm used the getting guns from the back trunk
Speaker 1: of a hunting guns. I'm not used to. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm because I'm not from like there's nothing not like
Speaker 1: a woodsy area anyway, I want to make a website
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Speaker 1: speaking of coming to see us, come see us live,
Speaker 1: guys Washington, d C, Wendy Starling and I are bringing
Speaker 1: Glamour Puss Too for one night only, Saturday, March nineteenth.
Speaker 1: Tickets are almost sold out, um, but the ticket link
Speaker 1: is in the bio and the venue that we're gonna
Speaker 1: be performing at is DC nine at seven o'clock. Uh,
Speaker 1: that'll be really fun. I'm excited to u to do
Speaker 1: Glamor pust there a New York City. On March twenty five,
Speaker 1: which is a Friday. As usual, Blair, Saki and I
Speaker 1: are back at New York Comedy Club for the eleven
Speaker 1: PM edition of March Nacho Bitches. Use code Nacho four
Speaker 1: ten dollar tickets. That's gonna be a fun one. Then
Speaker 1: the following night, if you are in Princeton, New Jersey,
Speaker 1: you can see me opening up for Ben Haigue, who
Speaker 1: has been on Guys We Fucked at Catch a Rising Star.
Speaker 1: We're doing two shows that weekend or that day, seven
Speaker 1: thirty pm and nine pm. We'll just put the links up.
Speaker 1: You can buy tickets. It'll be fun. And if you're
Speaker 1: going to be a New York City on Saturday, March
Speaker 1: seven thirty is the New York City Glamor Pass with
Speaker 1: me and Wendy. It's at Zinc Bar, which is the
Speaker 1: prettiest place I've ever done comedy in my whole life.
Speaker 1: And uh, we opened the show every month as characters
Speaker 1: with like our butts hanging out of our dresses and
Speaker 1: it's really fun and everyone gets confused and we all
Speaker 1: a good time. So come on out to that ticket
Speaker 1: link in the description. And then Karina and I on
Speaker 1: as part of the New York Podfest, are going to
Speaker 1: be doing a live episode of Guys We Fucked at
Speaker 1: the Bell House seven pm. We'll put the ticket link
Speaker 1: and that's in Brooklyn in the Mile as well. That'll
Speaker 1: be fun. Yeah, we like never do the never live,
Speaker 1: So if you want to see the show live, this
Speaker 1: could be the last time, one of the few times
Speaker 1: in your lifetime. Let's read some fucker male. Al Right,
Speaker 1: the subject of this one is thanks for making me
Speaker 1: feel cool about being a virgin. Hey, Christina and Karin
Speaker 1: just fucking with you. I know it's Christine And they
Speaker 1: spelled a wrong. I was like a whole joke. It
Speaker 1: was cute. It was more of a it was more
Speaker 1: of a visual joke. Hey, ladies in seven seen year
Speaker 1: old from Australia and you guys are amazing. What DoD
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Personally, personally,
Speaker 1: I've only ever hooked up with a couple of different
Speaker 1: guys on Australia. That's just making out. So I haven't
Speaker 1: fully delved into my sexuality yet. Most of my friends
Speaker 1: in long term relationships have had sex with their boyfriends,
Speaker 1: but there are few who lost their virginity to someone
Speaker 1: at a party. At first, I was super judgmental about
Speaker 1: these girls, as I thought they were sluts, even though
Speaker 1: they had literally only been with one person. I was
Speaker 1: a total slut shamer, and I'm ashamed about how I
Speaker 1: bad mouth these people to others. I think this is
Speaker 1: because I was uncomfortable about the fact that I am
Speaker 1: sexually inexperienced. What I heard that you lost your virginity
Speaker 1: at eighteen, Karin, I felt more comfortable in myself and
Speaker 1: my inexperience. You seem to be very uninhibited and comfortable
Speaker 1: in your sexuality now. So this has made me feel
Speaker 1: like being a quote late bloomer will not matter later
Speaker 1: in life. I don't consider myself a late bloomer at all.
Speaker 1: That's so funny. As a result, I now find myself
Speaker 1: defending the sex really explored to girls in my town
Speaker 1: as as long as they are being safe, if they
Speaker 1: are getting some dick good on them, I hope they
Speaker 1: have a good working time. So thanks for helping me
Speaker 1: be a better member of this sisterhood. PS. I really
Speaker 1: enjoyed your episode with Ruby the fifteen year Old, as
Speaker 1: it was interesting to see how teens in America differ
Speaker 1: from Australia. I want to know how teens in America different.
Speaker 1: What is Australian teens like? Tell me, someone write us
Speaker 1: sorry about this night showed gmail dot com. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: I'm only familiar obviously with our culture. I've only ever
Speaker 1: lived here, right and even and even we learned during
Speaker 1: the Ruby episode We're like, oh, we are not we
Speaker 1: don't really have our finger on the pulps of teens
Speaker 1: heroin out what the funk? We were very surprised. I know,
Speaker 1: that's the first time in a while. Well ever, maybe
Speaker 1: that I like felt old, and not in a bad
Speaker 1: way because I like getting old. I think I get
Speaker 1: so much better as I get older. But uh yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa that I am disconnected from that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel very disconnected. Don't just things are happening. It's
Speaker 1: a faster paced world, which we'll talk about it later
Speaker 1: in this episode. Um, so thanks, yeah, don't don't just
Speaker 1: just I think it's interesting and important to learn other
Speaker 1: people about other people's experiences before you cast judgment on them.
Speaker 1: And that's the podcast. I love when people email us
Speaker 1: and they're like, hey, I was a judge person and
Speaker 1: now I'm like, oh, that's okay now, I guess because
Speaker 1: everyone has their own pace that works for them, and
Speaker 1: a lot of people try and force their pace to
Speaker 1: match people around them space. And that's actually sexually and
Speaker 1: that's dangerous water to tread on. My friends. Sex is
Speaker 1: so fun and wonderful and rewarding and and awesome when
Speaker 1: you're going at your pace that's comfortable for you and
Speaker 1: the other persons like, but I can feel like Chad
Speaker 1: when you're when you're going, when you're trying to keep
Speaker 1: up with someone else's pace. Yep. And that's probably why
Speaker 1: I lost my Virginia fifteen. And I got to say,
Speaker 1: probably I wish that I would have waited, but whatever,
Speaker 1: that's what happened. They got my braces off. Oh ship.
Speaker 1: When we said on the Ted Talk there was an
Speaker 1: applause break, there wasn't a pause. I was like, wow, guys,
Speaker 1: there's not many jokes said on the Ted stage. I know,
Speaker 1: but um, speaking of kittens, do you want to make
Speaker 1: a website about cats or tits or braces or that
Speaker 1: great Kale shake that all your girlfriends are drinking and
Speaker 1: lose weight. I don't know what do you do? I
Speaker 1: have no idea. UM eight Chinese food. Um. But this episode,
Speaker 1: as we said before, sponsored by square Space. I have
Speaker 1: a square space website that I've had for many years.
Speaker 1: I've got squares space before we started. Over time we
Speaker 1: went them and I gotta say I'm pretty tech savvy,
Speaker 1: but not with design ship because my design I just
Speaker 1: I can't match colors very well. UM, specifically on websites.
Speaker 1: But square spaces, Uh, they offer you so many templates
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Speaker 1: They didn't ask us to say that, but I think
Speaker 1: it's because if you'm saying it weird, I feel because
Speaker 1: Mark Marin says it on his right, I'm like, why
Speaker 1: don't they want to say from saying that? Wow? Anyway,
Speaker 1: I am so excited to introduce this week's guest. I
Speaker 1: think this topic is so interesting. When I was doing
Speaker 1: research for today's episode, I was like, fascinated by this.
Speaker 1: I just love learning new things. I love when the
Speaker 1: podcast teaches me new things. That's the most exciting thing.
Speaker 1: I'm so thankful that this person was brave enough to come. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that was kind of brain. This was not brave.
Speaker 1: The prime is it's like been over used so now
Speaker 1: it has no meaning. But I really feel like this
Speaker 1: is because this is something that's not just to come
Speaker 1: out and say it is a little people be like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's thanks for sharing that, Mike. I'm gonna take a
Speaker 1: step few steps back now and maybe I'll reflect on myself.
Speaker 1: And so today's guest actually has the same name as
Speaker 1: a former guest, but it is not the same one. Okay,
Speaker 1: Mike Brown. This person is white and an improviser. Hey,
Speaker 1: Miff Brown, this is different. Hello Mike bro Oh this
Speaker 1: is Hey. My brand that was brod Um. So please
Speaker 1: welcome today's guest. He is working through his porn addiction
Speaker 1: right now, and we really delve into a lot of
Speaker 1: interesting stuff scientific and it's always good when you sig
Speaker 1: scientific and not scientifically anyway, Please welcome Mike Brown. Baby,
Speaker 1: Baby gonna be so down. I don't know you. Maybe
Speaker 1: we should take some up suckers. We are here with
Speaker 1: Mike Brown. Not the one comedians been on this podcast.
Speaker 1: Brown another comedian, but a different type of improviser. The
Speaker 1: other comedian, Mike Brown from Harlem. There's so many Mike Brown,
Speaker 1: the Mike. If you're listening, what's up? Man? Are you
Speaker 1: doing here? Um? I am so excited to interview you.
Speaker 1: I this is uh. I was reading all of the
Speaker 1: Facebook posts that you ad forward to Karen and she
Speaker 1: had sent to me, um, and there were so many
Speaker 1: points that you made. And then I watched the link
Speaker 1: to the one Ted talk we're talking about, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I feel like it and you you describe it as
Speaker 1: an addiction, but I feel like a lot of people
Speaker 1: feel lesser versions of all of these feelings towards like
Speaker 1: how it creates your perception towards women and seeing them
Speaker 1: as chances to get lucky. Like I just think that
Speaker 1: it's so interesting because I think a lot of men
Speaker 1: do view women as that, and those stories you hear
Speaker 1: of a guy asked me if I wanted to go
Speaker 1: home with him, and I said no, and then he
Speaker 1: called me a bit like I think I feel like
Speaker 1: that comes from that like of seeing a women as
Speaker 1: just like this whole basically. I mean, I know that
Speaker 1: sounds really vile, but yeah, I kind of went, well,
Speaker 1: should we address the whole thing? Like, well, we'll have
Speaker 1: entered you been, so let's start at the beginning, at
Speaker 1: the very beginning, Like how when did you first discover porn? Oh? Man, um,
Speaker 1: when don't you discover porn? Mine was accidental in my
Speaker 1: dad's computer and I was like, ah, what that's all
Speaker 1: looks so painful? Ten nine or ten too young? It
Speaker 1: it made me feel very weird. It's one of those
Speaker 1: things that's so shocking, and because you know, like I
Speaker 1: feel like I was one of those kids who like
Speaker 1: my parents never taught me about the stork, like you
Speaker 1: never know where baby Like for me, I was knew
Speaker 1: where babies came from. Um So, in that regard, like
Speaker 1: the process wasn't so much of a mystery as it
Speaker 1: was like the visual. Because you know, we in the
Speaker 1: United in the blah blah blah blah blah in the
Speaker 1: United States, we kind of grow up in this puritanical
Speaker 1: society of you know, leftover beliefs in blah blah blah
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. Um So, there's this What am
Speaker 1: I trying to say? I completely lost my train of thought. Anyway.
Speaker 1: The point is is like we have this um idea
Speaker 1: of what sex is. Until it's presented to you. You're curious,
Speaker 1: like you want to find out about it. I remember
Speaker 1: like as a child, maybe like ten twelve years old
Speaker 1: something like that. You know, you get the free preview
Speaker 1: of HBO, like for a Weekends Girls Gone Wild preview.
Speaker 1: I remember those, and those made me horny. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: stay up late and you're like, oh yeah, totally, I'm
Speaker 1: going to bead mom and dad and you speak downstairs
Speaker 1: and turn on the TV or even like when you
Speaker 1: don't have the free preview. You have to look between
Speaker 1: like the wavy lines, Like you turn to an um
Speaker 1: and it's all blurred out, but you still get the
Speaker 1: audio and you're like, what is that? But it's kind
Speaker 1: of curated. It's curated to make it's for the man's pleasure.
Speaker 1: A Girl's Gone Wild commercial is just chicks with wet
Speaker 1: T shirts are lifting up their shirts. They look a
Speaker 1: little reluctant. You're not you're not into that? I I
Speaker 1: but I am. And I after reading everything you've said
Speaker 1: about your addiction to porn and the ted talk saying,
Speaker 1: I'm like, fuck, am I being brainwashed? Because when I
Speaker 1: look at porn, the chick needs to be perfect looking
Speaker 1: to me, and it's perfect looking to most Like what
Speaker 1: most people would say is perfect looking, I would say
Speaker 1: that shitty. Yeah. I mean you get porn caters to
Speaker 1: all tastes and styles, and you know, whatever you're into,
Speaker 1: there's something out there for you. And I've probably about it, um,
Speaker 1: which is it's so weird. It's so weird. This is
Speaker 1: a weird thing. Like you grow up and you think, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm a good person, like I'm a nice little boy,
Speaker 1: and then you go down this dark, deep rabbit hole
Speaker 1: of like, nope, I'm into people fucking. Is that dark
Speaker 1: or what made it dark for you? It will? I
Speaker 1: will say it took a long time for me to
Speaker 1: understand that I was having like really dark feelings. Um,
Speaker 1: and what do you can you expand on that? When
Speaker 1: you say dark feelings? What do you mean the way
Speaker 1: that I view people, not just women but people in general,
Speaker 1: How those women are objects? Yeah, it's it's so objectifying.
Speaker 1: I can't emphasize that enough, like even I'm sorry, but
Speaker 1: to admit this is so weird. Like I was on
Speaker 1: the subway, come down here, um, and you're looking around
Speaker 1: the subway, You're like, oh, hey, there's a person. There's
Speaker 1: a person, And it's just it's been so ingrained in
Speaker 1: my system that you see someone and you try to
Speaker 1: figure out how you can fuck this person, Like how
Speaker 1: can I get in that person's pants? Male? Female, black, white, big, small,
Speaker 1: doesn't matter interest like you kind of or or um.
Speaker 1: If you see like another alpha male or someone who
Speaker 1: kind of like has uh seemingly more masculinity than you do. Um,
Speaker 1: how is this person going to challenge you when trying
Speaker 1: to like bang this girl that you're sitting right next
Speaker 1: to primal, it's weird, and then when you think it's
Speaker 1: it's exacerbated in New York City because you're so like
Speaker 1: bombarded with um people advertising uh crazy people on subway.
Speaker 1: There's so boards everywhere. It's more of a fashion and
Speaker 1: looks oriented city. I mean not every city is so
Speaker 1: centered around that. It's the you know, fashion capital of
Speaker 1: the world. There's a lot going on, and it's there's
Speaker 1: a lot of importance placed on looks here that maybe
Speaker 1: is not so like palpable in other places throughout the
Speaker 1: country of the world. So I mean it makes sense.
Speaker 1: And also this is a city where you come when
Speaker 1: you're like you're ready to fucking bring your a game,
Speaker 1: so everyone's in a constant competition. Like totally, totally how
Speaker 1: often were you watching porn when you first started watching it?
Speaker 1: And like, was there a moment where you discovered that
Speaker 1: you can watch porn on the computer? I mean obviously
Speaker 1: there was, but yeah, um, because like you always start
Speaker 1: like when you're younger, when you're in high school. My
Speaker 1: mom actually caught me once because what I would do
Speaker 1: is I would like do a Google search or whatever,
Speaker 1: um uh find my Like our family computer was in
Speaker 1: the dining room. That's always in the dining room or
Speaker 1: the kitchen. There's always a desk in the kitchen, or
Speaker 1: it's like this public place so that the husband can't
Speaker 1: look at porn, but we do anyway. Uh yeah, just
Speaker 1: late at night. I would stay up and I would
Speaker 1: do like a Google search. Oh yeah, well I'm just
Speaker 1: checking Facebook. I'll be up in a minute. Um. And
Speaker 1: then you like you go through like you you do
Speaker 1: your stuff and then you clear your search history. You
Speaker 1: go through the cookie and the cookies. And I deleted
Speaker 1: the cookies, but I forgot to empty the trash bin.
Speaker 1: She looked in the trash bin. She wasn't suspecting anything.
Speaker 1: She just found like these. She was just in the
Speaker 1: trash like I think she was deleting photos or whatever,
Speaker 1: like rumming through the trash. Yeah right, uh digital porn track.
Speaker 1: It was photos she was. She was deleting her own photos.
Speaker 1: But she found my cookies that I put in in
Speaker 1: the trash ban. Wow, mom, who knows how to use
Speaker 1: a computer? Really? That like struck the bad jackpot? There? Yeah? Did?
Speaker 1: And you can you come from a very and you
Speaker 1: are yourself very religious, right? What kind of religion were
Speaker 1: you brought up? In I knew it. Wow, it's a
Speaker 1: fun one. Wow, that's a strict one. This is going
Speaker 1: to be an interesting episode. No, it's great because I
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, Christina and I are coming from
Speaker 1: households were like, we're not you know, we're not. Religion
Speaker 1: wasn't a part of it. It's just the traditions of
Speaker 1: like Christmas and and conka and stuff like that. But
Speaker 1: it's more like family getting together and spend time with
Speaker 1: more of the traditional type like cultural influences that religion
Speaker 1: brings to the table. When your mom saw those porn
Speaker 1: cookie like the cookies from you watching porn in the trash?
Speaker 1: What how did she confront you? This is always so
Speaker 1: every guy I know has a mom caught me masturbating story.
Speaker 1: I've never been hot masturbating by a parent of you, carent,
Speaker 1: I don't know any girls who have. I've never masturbated
Speaker 1: in my house where my parents. But I was like
Speaker 1: the second I was alone, I actually I can't. I
Speaker 1: can't like get aroused in my childhood bedroom. Like it
Speaker 1: really like grosses me. When you were in high school,
Speaker 1: I didn't know. I didn't masturbate until I was eighteen
Speaker 1: years old. Yeah, my first boyfriend taught me how to masturbate,
Speaker 1: so I didn't there was no like for women like
Speaker 1: I wish that always find it like we're like for me, well,
Speaker 1: I think twelve was the first female masturbation just isn't
Speaker 1: like it's not like as widely accepted. We're not talking
Speaker 1: about it because I think people feel like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: girls don't need to do that, like boys will be boys,
Speaker 1: but like girls only like only like horrors are masturbating,
Speaker 1: Like it's not true at all. Everybody does yeah all day.
Speaker 1: But I think I was in the in the family
Speaker 1: room watching TV and she called me in the dining
Speaker 1: room like their joining rooms. She's like, Michael, come on
Speaker 1: in here. I need to uh like what is this?
Speaker 1: I haven't question I have a question about yeah, And
Speaker 1: so I'm like, oh, mom, fine, and so I go
Speaker 1: and she's like I was going through the trash can
Speaker 1: on the computer and I found um this, do you
Speaker 1: know how it got there? And it was just very
Speaker 1: I will give problems to my mom though, because she
Speaker 1: was not accusative. She was very like she presented it
Speaker 1: very quizzically. Um. She wasn't trying to condemn me anything,
Speaker 1: where she was just kind of like do you need help?
Speaker 1: Is there a problem? Or like interesting, she thought there
Speaker 1: was a problem, but she but she never actually confronted
Speaker 1: me about it, and I just played that. Nope, I
Speaker 1: have no idea. I have no Maybe somebody hacked. You
Speaker 1: didn't blame it on your dad? Why would I do that.
Speaker 1: I'm not a I'm lying about That just makes so
Speaker 1: much more sense if a dad's watching you know, was
Speaker 1: there any conversation about pornography ever between like you and
Speaker 1: your father or did you know if your father was
Speaker 1: watching pornography? You know, if he was watching it. Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm sure he wasn't. Really, you're sure he wasn't. That's
Speaker 1: not my dad. But do you think I mean that's
Speaker 1: like do you think that's just like the way he
Speaker 1: wants to be perceived by you? And then like underground,
Speaker 1: your dad's not a dirty, dirty man, not in the
Speaker 1: slightest Okay, Well, I mean he had sex at least
Speaker 1: once twice twice you have, okay, at least twice. So know,
Speaker 1: is there anything that we would need to know as
Speaker 1: people who are not really familiar with Mormonism outside of
Speaker 1: like HBO, what the Book of Mormon? What? Yeah? What? Um?
Speaker 1: Like how they're feelings on sex in the Mormon religion.
Speaker 1: Just keeping your pants until until you get married, bab
Speaker 1: what about masturbation? Yeah, keep it to you to yourself,
Speaker 1: like don't is it a sin? Or can you do
Speaker 1: it alone? Well? Obviously alone, but yeah it is, it
Speaker 1: is yours. It's one of those things that's I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't want to speak on behalf of the church,
Speaker 1: but you know, it is one of those things that
Speaker 1: is viewed as, uh, this is a definite no no,
Speaker 1: like you should not do this. Did your parents reinforce
Speaker 1: that or do you just learn them sex? Ever? Ever,
Speaker 1: in my household, you're weird And I found that that
Speaker 1: like going back to the whole puritanical society thing, like
Speaker 1: this is a huge problem um in our society that
Speaker 1: everyone not everyone, but a lot of families are brought
Speaker 1: up just like oh well, um, we're gonna let the
Speaker 1: school system take care of this one because it's such
Speaker 1: a weird. Uh. You know, they don't take care of ship.
Speaker 1: They don't. And so like where do people go? They
Speaker 1: go to porn? Like how does how does sex work?
Speaker 1: What is a labia? Yeah? I want to see what
Speaker 1: that looks like. You never learned the word laby and porn.
Speaker 1: No you don't. Yeah, it's really fun when you think
Speaker 1: about it, Like learning learning about sex from porn is
Speaker 1: like learning about love from movies, and like that's why
Speaker 1: we're all here to about sucked me up for sure,
Speaker 1: like the same way more sucked you up. I'm like, wait,
Speaker 1: why isn't John qu sex outside my house box? Like
Speaker 1: why isn't that happening? And I truly feel it's like
Speaker 1: it gives you this unrealistic expectation that has been set
Speaker 1: that no one, no real human being without a script,
Speaker 1: is ever going to be able to meet that for
Speaker 1: you because porn, you said, was like always there for you,
Speaker 1: even though it didn't respect, like it was something you
Speaker 1: could always go to and it would always deliver because
Speaker 1: you just search for what you want. It's so weird
Speaker 1: because sometimes I'm like, I want to see such a
Speaker 1: specific thing and I search for it and then I
Speaker 1: get it, and I'm like, I don't think I want
Speaker 1: this kind of service, it's but I do it anyway.
Speaker 1: I watch it and I masturbate to it, and it
Speaker 1: feels weird. Well, like we I think, as human beings
Speaker 1: were very curious by nature so if there's something that
Speaker 1: you're unsure about, you don't know like how something works,
Speaker 1: then like, oh, and then it's shocking. It's very very shocking.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, and this is what's very
Speaker 1: fascinating on a level about pornography is that it's titillating. Yeah, shocking,
Speaker 1: like housing hmmm, yeah, it's like have you everly eaten
Speaker 1: something that you like you need to spit out of
Speaker 1: your mouth so fast? Then you're like, that was a
Speaker 1: weird experience. I'm going to try that again one more time,
Speaker 1: like or like, when you say something this is disgusting,
Speaker 1: do you want to try this? That's what I feel
Speaker 1: like everyone goes to that with coffee. Everyone like when
Speaker 1: you first tried coffee, You're like, this is gross, what's
Speaker 1: the point of this? And then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you're like And then with whiskey, for example, when I
Speaker 1: first ever tried whiskey, I was like, this is gross.
Speaker 1: True story. I've only ever been drunk once and it
Speaker 1: was from whiskey. And I'm like, nope, I'm good. Wow.
Speaker 1: Do I understand why you need the porn addiction reading something? Um? No,
Speaker 1: It's interesting because we're kind of talking just now hinting
Speaker 1: on it, like the novelty of porn. And in one
Speaker 1: of the ted talks that you sent us as research, um,
Speaker 1: and we'll put those links up, the guy was kind
Speaker 1: of talking about how the difference between real sex where
Speaker 1: you're experiencing touch, you're experiencing the human connection, um, and
Speaker 1: then you have porn where it's really about like this
Speaker 1: clicking and just getting novelty of novelty. Yeah, like there's
Speaker 1: no there's no real touching, so it's like um, and
Speaker 1: and how some people kind of can get wrapped up
Speaker 1: into things that they innately wouldn't even be attracted to,
Speaker 1: or porn that is from a different sexual orientation than
Speaker 1: they are, and kind of young men find it confusing
Speaker 1: or jarring, like all of a sudden, there they've watched
Speaker 1: all the straight porn there is to watch, and then
Speaker 1: they're moving into gay porn. Have you have any experience
Speaker 1: with that? I mean, like I've viewed gay porn a
Speaker 1: little bit, not I mean in excess or something that
Speaker 1: you know, Uh, for me, it was more of kind
Speaker 1: of like what am I into today? Kind of thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's so many things you could be into porn site.
Speaker 1: You gotta be b d S time and you're like,
Speaker 1: I'm done with that. Yeah, you're trying gay porn. You're
Speaker 1: like that was weird. Like as as a heterosexual white male, Um,
Speaker 1: you know there's you kind of take pride in that
Speaker 1: a little bit and in what in like being a
Speaker 1: straight guy. Okay, yeah, like I want to see a
Speaker 1: dick fucking a pussy yeah. Um, And so like specifically,
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe this is a weird pick to
Speaker 1: talk about, but like nothing's too weird. For get it
Speaker 1: get weird, like gay porn is, uh, it's it's so masculine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like it's dude, undude, it's like what you expect.
Speaker 1: What was the American Psycho with It's it's like that
Speaker 1: scene where Christian Bale is totally fucking that chick and
Speaker 1: then he's watching himself in the mirror up over like
Speaker 1: above the bellat or something like that. It's like that,
Speaker 1: It's like you're viewing yourself doing that. It's I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's just bizarre. And when you're not attracted to it,
Speaker 1: it's it's I can't explain it. Someone said to us
Speaker 1: on the podcast, I forget who it was, but two men.
Speaker 1: I mean it was Kurt Medsker Two men fucking is
Speaker 1: the one of the most masculine, like two dudes with
Speaker 1: their giant cocks, Like that's masculine. That's not some people like,
Speaker 1: I know, I understand a guy like watching that who
Speaker 1: identifies as straight being confused, But I I have watched
Speaker 1: it before. I don't get turned on by it. But
Speaker 1: I'm like them, like, go go go. I'm just curious
Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, I mean it's not something that I
Speaker 1: really I didn't go down that rabbit hole too much.
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like we've spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time talking about this, um, but it's not something that
Speaker 1: I really dabbled in that much. Um it was it was, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I say, do you look for yourself in porn? Though?
Speaker 1: Like do you kind of like look for like this
Speaker 1: could be me? Yeah, where someone? Who? Can you ever
Speaker 1: look for people who look like you? I will say
Speaker 1: one thing, one area of porn that I probably watched
Speaker 1: the most was like milf just kind of like that
Speaker 1: old like being seduced kind of uh, kind of taking
Speaker 1: the submissive role a little bit, like having most of
Speaker 1: the time in the milf porn, right, I don't usually
Speaker 1: watch that porn because I don't. I don't, I just don't.
Speaker 1: But it seems like it's a schoolboy or a It's
Speaker 1: it's like a safe form of dominant. Yeah. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not like it doesn't take it to the extreme where
Speaker 1: like whips and chains and you know, having the gimp
Speaker 1: stand over you and all that, but uh, yeah, it
Speaker 1: was it was kind of a safer form where you
Speaker 1: can say, oh, this is there's something um, not relaxing, comforting,
Speaker 1: maternal milk, like the milf porn, which I don't like
Speaker 1: the word milf anyway, Like and just described would like
Speaker 1: to fun no no, just because we had Stoyle on
Speaker 1: the podcast Who's a porn star that my boyfriend had
Speaker 1: dated right before me, and so we talked to her
Speaker 1: and she said she hates the word teen and milf
Speaker 1: because it just like she would be considered a teen,
Speaker 1: but she's like in her thirties or late twenties. And
Speaker 1: it's just like it does not realistic, Like it creates
Speaker 1: the you you talked about one of your posts, like
Speaker 1: it creates this unrealistic expectation of women and h that's
Speaker 1: something that I wanted to ask you, like when you
Speaker 1: meet a girl that you might have a sexual encounter with,
Speaker 1: does she not live up to your expectations because of
Speaker 1: the porn you've watched? Never how can you live up
Speaker 1: to that? It's because porn is all based about where,
Speaker 1: it's all about fantasy. It's all about like finding something
Speaker 1: that you can't get home. Um, it's it's a fantasy world.
Speaker 1: So when you do find someone that you really enjoy
Speaker 1: spending time with, um, and they're just kind of you know,
Speaker 1: average missionary position doing your thing, it's like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: this is underwhelming. And then you feel like, as a
Speaker 1: guy on the on the man's perspective, you feel like
Speaker 1: you need to overcompensate. So you're just kind of like, uh, um,
Speaker 1: is that you can't see this on the podcast, but
Speaker 1: I'm like actually moving bunch. That's terrible. You're like, it's
Speaker 1: like a white man, dougie a little bit dude. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: you're the whitest thing that ever happened. Do you think
Speaker 1: you categorize like the women you meet in person as
Speaker 1: like maybe have you fallen in love? Have ever fallen
Speaker 1: in love once? Okay, so so women that you can
Speaker 1: crush over or fall in love over in one category?
Speaker 1: And sex and getting off as a totally different category.
Speaker 1: Com separate, yeah, separate, And it's atually understand you're demeaning.
Speaker 1: It's so demeaning because you don't view relationships as um
Speaker 1: as something to endure. That's another inherent thing about porn.
Speaker 1: You watch porn, um uh. You don't watch the same
Speaker 1: video again and again and again and again. You're constantly
Speaker 1: looking for something new. You want, like what's the next high?
Speaker 1: In some of those videos that I sent you, guys
Speaker 1: are talking about the dopamine levels and it's that um
Speaker 1: response in your brain that just like makes you feel
Speaker 1: really good and you the dopamine high doesn't last when
Speaker 1: you're watching the same video again and again again. So
Speaker 1: you're looking for the new thing. And that's how you
Speaker 1: view relationships is you know, you get into relationship and
Speaker 1: like three weeks, four weeks in, you're like, uh, this
Speaker 1: is three weeks or four weeks in? Yeah, wow, how
Speaker 1: much sex are you having in those three to four weeks?
Speaker 1: It's different see again um none none, uh uh. This
Speaker 1: is I feel like I'm a special case because I
Speaker 1: try to adhere to my Mormon beliefs as well. I
Speaker 1: was like trying to stay abstint before marriage. Sometimes you know,
Speaker 1: you break that and you know that's something that we
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go into that. Um, but you've
Speaker 1: had sex like multiple times before, right, Okay, yeah, I am.
Speaker 1: Do you think absinence before marriage is a good idea personally?
Speaker 1: I do? Why do you think that? I had a
Speaker 1: feeling this question was going to come up a lot
Speaker 1: of people think that, and but I'm when we talked
Speaker 1: about women you could fall in love with in real
Speaker 1: life as one category, and then getting off as these
Speaker 1: porn clickable things is in another category. It would be
Speaker 1: easy to not have sex with the woman I want
Speaker 1: to marry and then just jerk off to the porn
Speaker 1: I want to jerk off too. That's doable. It's doable,
Speaker 1: but it's also unfair. Yeah, it is unfair. Actually. UM,
Speaker 1: a very good friend of mine, she was in that
Speaker 1: very situation. She was married to a guy. UM, she
Speaker 1: got pregnant within the first year of Mary. They were
Speaker 1: married for a total four years. UM, she got pregnant. UM,
Speaker 1: and then after she got she's I have to say, gorgeous.
Speaker 1: She's just got like a sun slim line's beautiful. Like
Speaker 1: you see her and you're like, damn, yeah, yeah, not available?
Speaker 1: Who back to the internet? Sirie, why aren't you available?
Speaker 1: My phone just started talking, but it's on silent the
Speaker 1: coast of Porne's past. That's really scared. No, But she's
Speaker 1: just like this gorgeous, gorgeous girl. And um, he wouldn't
Speaker 1: have sex with her because he he was didicted to porn.
Speaker 1: So he was married to her, but he didn't want
Speaker 1: to have sex with her, but he would jerk off
Speaker 1: to porn while they were married. And did she she
Speaker 1: found out that he would be getting off and their
Speaker 1: love life was non existent. And when she confronted him,
Speaker 1: what did he say? That's so interesting? You know, honestly,
Speaker 1: I don't remember the end of the story. I know
Speaker 1: that they're they're divorced, not divorced like three or four years.
Speaker 1: But it was one of those things that you're just like,
Speaker 1: that's so sad. Do you think a little bit of him?
Speaker 1: And this is maybe in his defense, and I'm just curious.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to treat her like an object and
Speaker 1: wanted to treat the women that don't really exist in
Speaker 1: real life on the internet that he's clicking for as
Speaker 1: objects like he felt more comfortable in his head looking
Speaker 1: at those women, going I'm gonna fuck your pussy, shut
Speaker 1: the funk up, and let me fund whatever the fun
Speaker 1: dirty thoughts he's thinking, and he would never want to
Speaker 1: do that to his wife. I can relate to that.
Speaker 1: I've never met this man, so I mean, does that
Speaker 1: something that would make sense to you? Yeah? Totally. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know I've found myself in that very situation too.
Speaker 1: Really yeah, yeah, definitely, because it's it's intimidating. You know,
Speaker 1: sex is intimidating. It is you know, you sometimes you
Speaker 1: get matched with someone that you you think, oh, well,
Speaker 1: this person is out of my league and against hence
Speaker 1: the overcompensation. You feel like, well, porn is something that
Speaker 1: I'm intimately familiar with, and this is how men typically
Speaker 1: act in pornography. So I'm going to act like that
Speaker 1: with this person, and one of two things is going
Speaker 1: to happen. A They're going to think that you're just
Speaker 1: like a fucking war horse, and he's just like, WHOA,
Speaker 1: this is like the best sex I've ever had, or
Speaker 1: be they're like what are you doing? They get that
Speaker 1: you're getting it from porn. You can always I've whipped
Speaker 1: out some moves in my younger years, and the guys
Speaker 1: are like, what are you doing? Christina? Stop people? It's
Speaker 1: like you're not present though, would you agree? Like you
Speaker 1: just you're trying to put on a show instead of
Speaker 1: being moving how you Mike would move. It's not intimate.
Speaker 1: It's not intimate because you you're again you're overcompentating, so
Speaker 1: you're not there present with the other person, like you're
Speaker 1: you're responding to their body, but you're not responding to
Speaker 1: them as a person. Man, I now where when you
Speaker 1: said that the relationships ending three or four weeks? Just
Speaker 1: going back to that, like, so if you're not having sex,
Speaker 1: what is it that's ending these relationships? Just you getting bored?
Speaker 1: I think part of it is like a fear of Um,
Speaker 1: somebody who's asking me this the other day, Um, I
Speaker 1: have to look it up. I can't even remember what
Speaker 1: my response to this was. What did your heart say?
Speaker 1: My heart said, be yourself and love everybody every right?
Speaker 1: Um oh here it is. This is so sad that
Speaker 1: I've looked this up. Um. Well, well, sometimes when you
Speaker 1: put your feelings and well thought out sentences, it's nice
Speaker 1: to go back to those. Um. I get a lot
Speaker 1: of anxiety. I feel very claustrophobic. I feel smothered. Um,
Speaker 1: I feel like I can't wait to end the relationship
Speaker 1: and move on to the next. It's the new this.
Speaker 1: You know, this reminds you a lot when I was
Speaker 1: watching the video about the Coolidge effect that they were
Speaker 1: talking about where it's just like, uh, they were what
Speaker 1: did they do with sheep or chickens? Hen's okay? The
Speaker 1: Coolidge effect is basically like, uh, the male animal can
Speaker 1: come like or can come faster with a new female,
Speaker 1: but if they keep having sex with the same female,
Speaker 1: it takes longer and longer for them to ejaculate. Hens.
Speaker 1: That's why there's one rooster in an entire henhouse. So
Speaker 1: it's an actual state that's done. And I mean I
Speaker 1: think it, you know it, But it makes sense like
Speaker 1: if it's you know, for hens just as much as
Speaker 1: for human But the hens don't watch porn, So where
Speaker 1: they getting that that desire for newness? Sure about that.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of breasts in there, boy, but but
Speaker 1: that's kind of similar like that dopamine chase of a
Speaker 1: new vagina or something like that. It's not why the
Speaker 1: hens aren't watching point, it's I think it's that's the
Speaker 1: COOLIDG effect. Explains why porn works and why PLO it's
Speaker 1: such a problem. A lot of the studies show that, Um,
Speaker 1: I think it was after a certain period of time,
Speaker 1: and I don't know exactly what that period of time is, um,
Speaker 1: but it takes men longer to ejaculate with the same
Speaker 1: woman as opposed to like, you know, a different girl,
Speaker 1: because it's not that new thrill. It's like I've seen
Speaker 1: this before, I've done this before, whereas I think work
Speaker 1: for I don't, Yeah, I don't know, like for me,
Speaker 1: Like there's like there's a part in the middle of
Speaker 1: the relationship that's good. Like new sex is not necessarily
Speaker 1: always my favorite because a lot of times, like men
Speaker 1: don't know how to work your body and it's just
Speaker 1: weird and freaky. But yeah, I mean I think women
Speaker 1: experienced that too, after a certain amount of time, Like
Speaker 1: you have to try new things, maybe not new people,
Speaker 1: but at least new things. And it's not it's not
Speaker 1: just a man. Oh yeah, sex can feel mundane for women.
Speaker 1: I mean, you got to spice that ship up. That's
Speaker 1: why there's so many like not discussion groups, UM, like
Speaker 1: therapy groups were like couples therapy, like, all right, what
Speaker 1: are we gonna do to spice up the bedroom? Kind
Speaker 1: of When did you know you had an addiction to porn?
Speaker 1: Probably about a year year and a half ago, okay,
Speaker 1: and how old are you now? Three? Okay? Um. A
Speaker 1: roommate of mine, uh brought it to my attention, and
Speaker 1: I actually, it's so weird, like interesting, yeah, I um,
Speaker 1: like every shape in our apartment is stiff. Mike, you
Speaker 1: gotta stop. Have you ever been in there with a
Speaker 1: uv lay? That book started supposed to get viruses? Man?
Speaker 1: Uh No. He brought up to my attention and I
Speaker 1: actually said the words to him. It was such a
Speaker 1: class um. Uh, well, we'll leave that one alone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's a that's I don't want to get into
Speaker 1: his business. Yeah, um yeah. But he brought it to
Speaker 1: my attention and I actually said, I don't have a problem,
Speaker 1: like I what everyone everyone with the problem says perfectly, yeah,
Speaker 1: And I was just like, I don't have a problem.
Speaker 1: I can stop anytime I want. I just used pornography
Speaker 1: just because it's easier to get off that way. Did
Speaker 1: you feel defensive or did you get a like a
Speaker 1: feeling in your gut, like, yeah, I do. It was
Speaker 1: totally defensive of it. Yeah. Um, it took a while
Speaker 1: for me to actually hear my own words because he's
Speaker 1: stuck with me. Definitely resonated in my brain for a
Speaker 1: few weeks, and I was like, this is mhmm. And
Speaker 1: I started going to recovery meetings just because it's like, well,
Speaker 1: I guess that's what you do. What's the recovery meeting?
Speaker 1: Like for porn addicts, it's exactly the same as alcoholics anonymous,
Speaker 1: really exactly the same. Yeah, well, I mean the interesting
Speaker 1: thing is that I think addiction across the board has
Speaker 1: a lot of similarities. Uh. And then and I didn't
Speaker 1: even know this, but it's actually changes the structure of
Speaker 1: your brain. Because you were talking before about the dopamine.
Speaker 1: So like when you like something, dopamine is released, but
Speaker 1: then it's like you go kind of too hard and
Speaker 1: it's like too much dopamine, and then it's releasing the
Speaker 1: delta fosphy, which is the called a binge mechanism. Um.
Speaker 1: And then from there, um, it's kind of like your
Speaker 1: your willpower is eroded and you just like you're like desensitized,
Speaker 1: so it takes more and more to get you going,
Speaker 1: the same as with anything. But it was interesting because
Speaker 1: it's like, uh, you know, from the beginning of time,
Speaker 1: we have you know, thought to be rewarded with like
Speaker 1: the simple pleasures in life, like whether they be sex
Speaker 1: or food. Um, those are like the main things, like
Speaker 1: the big ones, yes, sex and food, and so now
Speaker 1: we have it on such a high level and they
Speaker 1: kind of it was interesting that they compared Like that's
Speaker 1: why I like almost like lab rats can get addicted
Speaker 1: to like cheesecake if it's thrown at them, but only
Speaker 1: like ten p can get addicted to cocaine and alcohol
Speaker 1: because those are not like, those are not things that
Speaker 1: we're used to. It's not your brain is programmed. You're
Speaker 1: not preak programmed. I did well, I'm going to get
Speaker 1: a whiskey. Yeah, which is just so fascinating. So yeah,
Speaker 1: after this time, you're the actual frontal cortex of your
Speaker 1: brain is reshaped and you reverse the Yes you can
Speaker 1: ya fascinating six weeks. It also depends on your age.
Speaker 1: Older men recover fat and this was a very interesting study.
Speaker 1: Older men recover faster than younger men from addiction. Um uh,
Speaker 1: they recover from erectile dysfunction faster. Um, they have healthier
Speaker 1: relationships after they give up porn much faster than younger
Speaker 1: men because um, older men are obviously at an older
Speaker 1: stage when the birth or they were at an older
Speaker 1: stage when the birth of the Internet happened, so for
Speaker 1: them to get into online pornography, which we need to
Speaker 1: make the distinction. Online pornography is not the same as Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler,
Speaker 1: like all those like porn mags from the seventies first,
Speaker 1: very very different. My dad though, had porn video like
Speaker 1: like VHS tapes. Sometimes my brother and I would joke
Speaker 1: about it and it was made me really uncomfortable. The
Speaker 1: first time my brother joked about it, but he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, Dad, that would in cabinet downstairs in the
Speaker 1: living room in our old house that was filled with porn.
Speaker 1: I'm like yeah, like well again, like that was before
Speaker 1: the Internet. It's not just the but the thing the
Speaker 1: difference between a VHS and the Internet is the clickability
Speaker 1: of the searchability. Yeah, there's just so you're just it's
Speaker 1: just a whole fucking lie. It kind of reminds me
Speaker 1: of like the grossness of the instant gratification of posting
Speaker 1: a tweet and then not getting enough likes in the
Speaker 1: first five seconds. You get pissed at yourself. That's fucking ridiculous.
Speaker 1: That's the dopamine level, like hate that you put this
Speaker 1: thing out into the universe and saying, hey, everybody approve
Speaker 1: of me, and that that was a huge symptom for me.
Speaker 1: That was something that, um, I don't know if you
Speaker 1: go back through my Facebook feed, it's tapered off a lot,
Speaker 1: but I was posting like two or three times a day,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, this has to get a hundred legs.
Speaker 1: This has to get two hundred legs today, and you
Speaker 1: would get like six. Well, I mean, do you think
Speaker 1: you just you seem to just have a generally addictive personality.
Speaker 1: It seems it would seem that way. I do too,
Speaker 1: But I mean I feel like I'm like I really
Speaker 1: hard on myself, so like I control it for some aspects,
Speaker 1: but like I definitely, like if I let myself go,
Speaker 1: would have a huge food addiction. Definitely get addicted to people.
Speaker 1: But it's like a certain type of it's just a
Speaker 1: certain type of personality. Social media is huge makes people
Speaker 1: don't really like like we're so many people are addicted to.
Speaker 1: I'm definitely addicted to social media. But one thing at
Speaker 1: a time, one thing at a time. Now, there did
Speaker 1: you Were you experiencing a rectile dysfunction due to your
Speaker 1: porn addiction at all? I never, to my knowledge, has ever.
Speaker 1: I mean there are there's a few times that, like
Speaker 1: you said to yourself, like, wow, why can't I get off?
Speaker 1: Why can't I like and it's just taking forever or
Speaker 1: um while looking at porn? Yeah, um, but that doesn't
Speaker 1: that never happened too often. Um, so that's happened to
Speaker 1: me before. Did I you had a rectile this function?
Speaker 1: Not a rectile this function? But like I was, I
Speaker 1: was searching and start clicking and clicking and clicking all
Speaker 1: these videos, all these different categories. I'm like, why is
Speaker 1: it nothing working for my vagina right now? And you're
Speaker 1: not doing things? Was like it was an isolated incident
Speaker 1: that like, I don't know. I don't know, because it
Speaker 1: seems like common commonly, the only reason people are even
Speaker 1: confronting their porn addiction is because their dick isn't working,
Speaker 1: Like and that's the that's something that like a man
Speaker 1: no matter what age, I mean, unless she's really old,
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, this is just my time, like
Speaker 1: it's going to find this I want to do this
Speaker 1: anymore alarming. But then there's all these other things like
Speaker 1: in retrospect that after they kind of be like, hey,
Speaker 1: my dick isn't working anymore and they find out maybe
Speaker 1: I have a porn addiction. Then they're like, oh, hey,
Speaker 1: in the past few years, I thought I had a
Speaker 1: d h D, or I thought I was depressed her
Speaker 1: head anxiety or o c D, when really it was
Speaker 1: the porn addiction like causing those things. Did you have
Speaker 1: any experience with anxiety or depression or any of those
Speaker 1: because you felt shitty about yourself. It's that you said
Speaker 1: that porn and what you still do? I think that?
Speaker 1: Why does it? Why does porn make you feel like
Speaker 1: you said, I remember not good enough? Um. There's a
Speaker 1: series of videos called Dirty a Little Secret by Terry
Speaker 1: Crews um and it's it's a kind of a hot
Speaker 1: topic right now. Terry Crews just put out who doesn't
Speaker 1: wait he does? Yeah, I love him. I just know
Speaker 1: it was a comedy actor. Well now, but yeah, he
Speaker 1: has a porn addiction and does liked the videos about him.
Speaker 1: Everyone knows about him. It's so funny. Yeah, like porn addiction. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a blog that he does in his car with
Speaker 1: a seatbelt Terry Crews. Yeah. And I think it was
Speaker 1: the fifth episode. His wife was on the on one
Speaker 1: of the videos and she was talking about like what
Speaker 1: it was like from her perspective, Um, she was getting
Speaker 1: ready to divorce him, Like he had a huge it
Speaker 1: was a huge problem, and that was one of the
Speaker 1: He's been off porn for about six or seven years
Speaker 1: now that so now he's just kind of like coming
Speaker 1: public about and he's like, hey, everyone, like, this is
Speaker 1: a problem for a lot of people. Um, which was
Speaker 1: very helpful to me because I came out publicly about
Speaker 1: my porn addiction maybe a month before he started, before
Speaker 1: we posted the first video, and I was like, isn't
Speaker 1: it so nice though, when there's something that's so taboo
Speaker 1: and shameful and like you don't want to come out
Speaker 1: with it because people are like, yeah, yeah, everyone's addicted
Speaker 1: to porner or just see that. It's like something really
Speaker 1: weak and pathetic or whatever you is in your inner monologue.
Speaker 1: It's just like hearing somebody else be like, hey, I
Speaker 1: have this and I don't like it and it's a problem.
Speaker 1: It's just like wow, it's very reassuring and in fact,
Speaker 1: when I came out on Facebook, UM, I had a
Speaker 1: lot of people contact me saying that they have addictions
Speaker 1: as well, like, um, yes, but not to pornography, UM,
Speaker 1: just addict something else. Addiction to that was I believe
Speaker 1: in eating disorder. But you know a lot of people
Speaker 1: have these similar types of addictions that you know, they
Speaker 1: feel camaraderie when someone comes out and it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: this is a problem that I haven't. I'm determined to
Speaker 1: conquer this. UM. I had another guy from the pit
Speaker 1: contact me to people from the pit contact, Wow, how
Speaker 1: do that make you feel? Like, holy sh it, this
Speaker 1: is more didn't expect it? That did not expect it?
Speaker 1: What did you? What did? What did you want to
Speaker 1: get out of coming out publicly about your porn addiction.
Speaker 1: I wanted to remove the veil and kind of like
Speaker 1: get out from under the shadow because I feel like
Speaker 1: porn has this hold on you. It's this. In my
Speaker 1: Facebook post, I made reference to something about the fact
Speaker 1: of like, um, porn makes you feel like you're not
Speaker 1: good enough, like this is the only thing that will
Speaker 1: love you, and it really hates you. Nobody loves you,
Speaker 1: so you might as well come back for more. Just
Speaker 1: get a real quick dopamine top up, and then go
Speaker 1: about you're a gross loser watch this porn and that.
Speaker 1: That's why I bring up Terry Crews is because in
Speaker 1: his videos he makes the very clear distinction between guilt
Speaker 1: and shame. Guilt is positive, um. Guilt helps you recognize
Speaker 1: and realize that there is a problem and that you
Speaker 1: need to correct this problem. Shame tells you that you're
Speaker 1: a bad person. Yeah, and it's it's life threat. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's horrible. Shame will eat away a person's soul. It's awful.
Speaker 1: It's absolutely awful. And I think that's the well, Well,
Speaker 1: isn't there a point that when guilt goes too far?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think sometimes gil can also eat away
Speaker 1: with you. I understand the distinction between the two, but
Speaker 1: I mean, especially as it's sometimes growing up a Jew,
Speaker 1: but I felt guilty about things. I can't sleep over
Speaker 1: it sometimes. But I think it's interesting where you were
Speaker 1: saying where you were in a relationship and you viewed
Speaker 1: that person as like you love that person or you
Speaker 1: to crush on that person, but then getting off was porn,
Speaker 1: and then you would still see women in in every
Speaker 1: day walking down the sidewalk as objects, sexual objects. So
Speaker 1: what that's doing is it's creating a huge wall between
Speaker 1: intimacy and arousal. Well, I guess the two separate things time. Like,
Speaker 1: I guess I didn't realize that all I wanted out
Speaker 1: of this relationship was just to have a sex partner.
Speaker 1: That's all I wanted. And you justify it by saying, oh,
Speaker 1: I really like this person, and let's be honest, I
Speaker 1: genuinely did. There were certain people in my past that
Speaker 1: I really did like that person. Um, But for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: it's degrading. It's so degrading to admit this. But I
Speaker 1: was only with that person because I needed that physical
Speaker 1: um qualification. I needed to be recognized and justified in
Speaker 1: in my actions. And so it was something that I
Speaker 1: was searching for. What you mean, justified in your actions?
Speaker 1: What actions having sex with her or masturbating, looking at
Speaker 1: porn or I'm I'm a normal, healthy person, I have
Speaker 1: a girlfriend. I think that's more of Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that's more on the noses. Um, just lying to yourself
Speaker 1: and just saying that you know this is I have
Speaker 1: a problem, but I can't acknowledge it. I refuse to
Speaker 1: acknowledge it. I don't even recognize that I have a problem.
Speaker 1: And so this is what my perception of relationships are.
Speaker 1: So I guess I'll go out and do this as well.
Speaker 1: It's like I'm gonna go out and act like like
Speaker 1: what what I think a regular person should be doing,
Speaker 1: Like I'm gonna be hind closed doors, I do this
Speaker 1: thing that I I don't think is normal, and then
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go out and just like put on this
Speaker 1: costume of a normal person. Kind of you want to
Speaker 1: be normal because that is the fantasy you're trying to
Speaker 1: live out your fantasies, and your fantasies you just will
Speaker 1: never tally up to to what you see on the computer.
Speaker 1: What about intimacy? The one thing they said on the
Speaker 1: the intimacy of sex is taken away in porn, and
Speaker 1: that porn takes away your imagination when you're not when
Speaker 1: you're physically with a person, because it's it's like you're
Speaker 1: not present. Does that accurate to to say, like, because
Speaker 1: when you're masturbating the porn, to me, there's nothing intimate
Speaker 1: about that. It's just it feels primal. It feels like
Speaker 1: like it just feels like an I feel like an animal,
Speaker 1: not in a bad way, but when I get off,
Speaker 1: when I'm looking at porn, it's so much more aggressive.
Speaker 1: And then when I'm with my partner sometimes it's really
Speaker 1: aggressive because we like have different types of sex. But
Speaker 1: then the intimacy is like that will I'll never get
Speaker 1: that from porn. Did you ever feel an intimate connection
Speaker 1: with porn or only with ord and did you ever
Speaker 1: feel that with a person physically? That's a very interesting question.
Speaker 1: I never consider that Barba Walt is fab walt. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't let me U. Can we come back to that.
Speaker 1: I need I need some time to process that. Um.
Speaker 1: I've never actually considered that before. Yeah. Well, honestly, I
Speaker 1: never really considered it until I read, like read your
Speaker 1: posts and listen to this talk, because I kind of
Speaker 1: had those feelings and they were like laying there, but
Speaker 1: I didn't form them into words, you know. And I
Speaker 1: think that's so because sometimes I feel like, all go
Speaker 1: home and then Stephen's asleep and I'll masturbate on the
Speaker 1: couch with my vibrator and it's with porn, and sometimes
Speaker 1: it just feels, and then I'll go into the crawling
Speaker 1: into the bed with him, and I feel bad. I
Speaker 1: don't know why he's seen my vibrantor on the couch.
Speaker 1: He's like a vibrator on the couch. But I don't
Speaker 1: know why. I just feel like it's it's kind of
Speaker 1: the thought that beautiful man that I love and I'm
Speaker 1: I love so much, but then I'm just getting off
Speaker 1: to this smut. That's what I think of my head
Speaker 1: kind of, and it's it's you know, do you need
Speaker 1: that person? Of course we do. The answer is yes,
Speaker 1: But when you perform and act like that and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: well I don't need you, you know, it's again going
Speaker 1: back to Terry Crews, he talks about cognitive dissonance UM
Speaker 1: and the difference between because you have two halves into
Speaker 1: your brain, and one side is very instinctively telling you
Speaker 1: one thing and the other side of your brain is
Speaker 1: very instinctively telling telling you something different. So the one
Speaker 1: side of your brain is saying that you need your
Speaker 1: boy friend, you cannot live without him, but the other
Speaker 1: side of your brain is saying, well, I don't need him,
Speaker 1: I can get off without him. So you have this
Speaker 1: cognitive dissonance in your brain telling you very opposing beliefs.
Speaker 1: What's the point of cognitive dissidence? I got a guess,
Speaker 1: just how your brain so annoying? How to get a
Speaker 1: psychiatrist on here? Do you think? Do you think and
Speaker 1: this is not me like saying like trying to lead
Speaker 1: the witness by any means, but do you think kind
Speaker 1: of you're being Mormon and being told that you can't
Speaker 1: you know, you just save yourself for a marriage, kind
Speaker 1: of like holding yourself back like that kind of made
Speaker 1: you explode in this other way where you just want
Speaker 1: ape shipped on the porn. Yeah, yeah, definitely. UM. I
Speaker 1: have a I have a very rebellious personality that's just inherent.
Speaker 1: My mom would yell at me all the time. She
Speaker 1: would say, don't fix the v C. Are we know
Speaker 1: how to do it? I'm like, Mom, I know how
Speaker 1: to do it. So UM. I've always kind of been
Speaker 1: one of those people to say like, well, you can't
Speaker 1: tell me what to do. I'm gonna I'm gonna do
Speaker 1: what I'm gonna do. Um to a point, I believe
Speaker 1: that that's fine, that that's healthy. UM, but I definitely
Speaker 1: took it to an extreme. I took it to areas
Speaker 1: that we're not cautious. Um. Uh, two areas that I
Speaker 1: just you know, I was just thinking about me. I
Speaker 1: wasn't thinking about UM anyone else. I was. I was
Speaker 1: very very um and still am um selfish. Do you
Speaker 1: feel like you've hurt people with your porn addiction unintentionally? Yeah? Um,
Speaker 1: And that goes back to to the relationships. Um, There's
Speaker 1: been a lot of relationships that have ended because I
Speaker 1: was unable to sustain you know, I couldn't. Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1: I was looking for the next open mean hind And
Speaker 1: was there a point where you realized that they weren't
Speaker 1: the next high? So you did you kind of get
Speaker 1: angry at them in your head? I never got angry
Speaker 1: in your head. You're like, that's not You're not what
Speaker 1: I'm chasing after. Not angry, But I don't know. I think, um, disappointed, dissatisfied. Um.
Speaker 1: There were there have been many relationships that I've just
Speaker 1: ghosted and like, And I feel like that's a common
Speaker 1: trend for men as well, Like ghost thing is very
Speaker 1: common for both. It's not so yeah, yeah, good to
Speaker 1: know people. People well, sometimes you don't want to confront
Speaker 1: hurting somebody or I don't know, it's an uncomfortable thing.
Speaker 1: Everyone's so gonetamn afraid to be vulnerable. That's so confusing
Speaker 1: to me, Like I don't understand why being hearing other
Speaker 1: people be vulnerable. It's so I mean, that's why people
Speaker 1: like this podcast. We're seeing here talking about our feelings.
Speaker 1: We've cried on this, We've I've said things that I
Speaker 1: would never even say. Sometimes I've said things I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say to a friend because I just feel like it's
Speaker 1: so personal and but so, but when you see somebody
Speaker 1: be vulnerable's like when you see an improv performance or
Speaker 1: you see a movie or do anything you like. Fuck,
Speaker 1: they were present and they were they were on fire,
Speaker 1: and they were amazing. Like that's beautiful. That's humanity. That's
Speaker 1: that's not porn. That's looking someone in the eye and
Speaker 1: saying I want you to be stay with me, please
Speaker 1: stay with me, and just making a human connection Like
Speaker 1: that's like what people like our soul needs. But then
Speaker 1: there's like another voice in our head saying, but chase
Speaker 1: this go to the titty bar. Porn teaches you is
Speaker 1: that vulnerability is something to be um feared and um shamed.
Speaker 1: I never thought about that, but it makes a lot
Speaker 1: of sense. You know, how many people um go out
Speaker 1: into the world and say, hey, everyone, what porn did
Speaker 1: you watch last night? Like we we don't never we
Speaker 1: talked about breaking bad, we talked about walking dead, but
Speaker 1: we don't ever talk about like, hey, did you see
Speaker 1: Jenna Jamison last night? Right? She had a really great performance. Right,
Speaker 1: And we're so judgmental. I feel like of you know,
Speaker 1: there's so many stories of like a girl finding her
Speaker 1: boyfriend's porn and that like changing her whole outlook on him,
Speaker 1: even me, like I were accident, and I when I
Speaker 1: see accidentally, I really mean accident. I accidentally, uh found
Speaker 1: one of my you know, I've handling four serious boyfriends.
Speaker 1: One of my boyfriends porn and it was like very
Speaker 1: like muscular not she emails, but like very muscular women
Speaker 1: like who looked super masculine, and that like frightened me
Speaker 1: a lot, And like this is what you're into because
Speaker 1: you you look at it the port and if the
Speaker 1: point isn't like kind of reminiscent of who you are
Speaker 1: or what you look like, it makes you feel like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: this is never going to work out because I'm not
Speaker 1: bringing what he likes or what gets him off to
Speaker 1: the table exactly. This is an interesting quote that reminds
Speaker 1: me what you just said that Ted Talk. The guy said,
Speaker 1: girls get the impression that if you want to be
Speaker 1: worthy of love first and foremost, you have to be
Speaker 1: worthy of sexual desire. I'm like, oh, you nailed that
Speaker 1: on the head. A lot about a lot of industries,
Speaker 1: porn being one of them, but like that's why. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know men feel that too, that they have to
Speaker 1: live up to a certain expectation of masculinity. But it
Speaker 1: makes the woman just feel like she's in starring in
Speaker 1: a show when she fucked someone, and it's it's like
Speaker 1: and then all of your there's no thought in your
Speaker 1: head of what about my sexual pleasure? And then it's
Speaker 1: just like, what are we even doing? This isn't even sex. Yes,
Speaker 1: you're physically penetrating each other, but the girls just trying
Speaker 1: to look great and the guys just trying to Like
Speaker 1: Jackhammer like you saw him porn, It's like, that's not sex.
Speaker 1: Sex that can be so amazing. Have you ever had
Speaker 1: like mind blowing sex? Not that I can think of,
Speaker 1: nothing really comes to mind. Everything is just kind of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: did you have sex with the person who you were
Speaker 1: in love with so that where you were, were you
Speaker 1: very young? Were just you just never didn't happen. It
Speaker 1: just didn't have It was both it started. Um ah,
Speaker 1: I was in tenth grade. I think that's when I
Speaker 1: met her and uh, yeah, I just totally crushed out
Speaker 1: on her. Um never happened, Um never kissed her. Actually yeah,
Speaker 1: she never reciprocated those feelings. Do you think that could
Speaker 1: have been just an intense crush though not real like
Speaker 1: true love? It's hard to say because you wouldn't have
Speaker 1: anything to compare it to, because I mean that crush
Speaker 1: went on for twelve thirteen years, so I mean, you
Speaker 1: know when it goes on for that long and you
Speaker 1: can't like the last time we talked was four, four
Speaker 1: or five years ago. Um, did you ever tell her
Speaker 1: how you felt? Oh? Yeah, and that was the last
Speaker 1: we talked. Um well, I mean like because she knew,
Speaker 1: like we'd had discussion discussions like years years and years ago. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, So she was dating a guy, still with him,
Speaker 1: and she said, hey, you know what's really good this guy?
Speaker 1: He reminds me a lot of you. That yeah, so
Speaker 1: I created this whole story of like, hey, so the
Speaker 1: kitchens flooding. I actually told her that the kitchen was flooding, right,
Speaker 1: a pipe first, the kitchen. I didn't know what to do.
Speaker 1: I put her on the bold. I just cried, came
Speaker 1: back on. I'm like, oh, yeah, so there's a flood
Speaker 1: in the kitchen. I have to go. I figured if
Speaker 1: you can lie, lie big, Like, who's gonna call you
Speaker 1: on that? It? Um, that's a very specific the kitchen flooded,
Speaker 1: you liar, Michael. You know what's funny about that is
Speaker 1: that actually happened. My bedroom flooded because of pipe in
Speaker 1: the kitchen burst. After you said the pipe this is
Speaker 1: a year ago. Yeah, a year ago the pipe first? Yeah,
Speaker 1: complete sign Yeah no. Yeah. So I told her that
Speaker 1: that I was still in love with her, and I couldn't. Um.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what else to say. And she's like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know how to respond to them, like there's
Speaker 1: nothing to respond to. Yeah. So, Also, if it makes
Speaker 1: you feel any better, it's easy to have a crush
Speaker 1: for a long time if you never actually kind of
Speaker 1: get in with that person, because it's like you have
Speaker 1: to really know someone like she could be she could
Speaker 1: take dumps and dust on that. You know, that's rude,
Speaker 1: that's hot. Really, I thought I thought we were ready
Speaker 1: to get into something. Okay, so I have a feat
Speaker 1: of porn. What is the mostly sucked up porn you've watched?
Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of funked up ones. I've
Speaker 1: talked to some people that I privately that have and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't even I can't even talk. I
Speaker 1: don't even not that I'm judging you, but I'm just like,
Speaker 1: I can that exists, and that's It's just I'm just fascinated.
Speaker 1: Before before I uh say what this is, I need
Speaker 1: to make the distinction I do not and don't this.
Speaker 1: I did not like it when I saw it, ended
Speaker 1: it immediately. I was so repulsed by it. It was rape,
Speaker 1: racial rape. Well, because yeah, I think there's rape fantasy porn. Yeah, wait,
Speaker 1: that's what you watched, that fantasy. It wasn't like it
Speaker 1: wasn't an actual raping, right, Yeah, it's like in a
Speaker 1: movie when like when the girl gets raped, it doesn't
Speaker 1: actually happen. It's we talked about that a lot. I
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. The rape scene in the Titanic,
Speaker 1: a miniseries with Tim Curry, is one of my most
Speaker 1: favorite things. It's one of those things that really really
Speaker 1: disturbs me. Is it weird that I get off to that?
Speaker 1: And when I watched that Morstly gang Bangs, I'm not like, oh,
Speaker 1: I want the woman to be saying no. Well, I
Speaker 1: mean that's um, but I like the dominant situation. I
Speaker 1: like watching a bunch of men and one woman. But
Speaker 1: I also like when the woman's like in control in
Speaker 1: the mineral fascinating. But I also like when the men
Speaker 1: are taking control of her. Why. I wish I knew why,
Speaker 1: but whatever, That's what I like. I mean, that's I mean,
Speaker 1: that's what makes the world go around. That's why everyone
Speaker 1: has different different passions. No, but it was it was
Speaker 1: for me. It was one of those things that I
Speaker 1: saw for the first time and I was just I
Speaker 1: was appalled. I'm still appalled. Yeah, it's it's it's one
Speaker 1: of those things that it was. It's too close to home.
Speaker 1: It's because it's too real, because it happens in life.
Speaker 1: It does happen. You know, anybody who's been raped or
Speaker 1: are you multiple people who have been raped? Yet? Um?
Speaker 1: You know I've I've never been in that situation. Um,
Speaker 1: I can only imagine it was so weird. I don't
Speaker 1: know why I was thinking of this the other day.
Speaker 1: I was actually thinking what it would have been like
Speaker 1: if I you know, that's a weird. Now I don't
Speaker 1: want to go down this rabbit holes. It's just it's
Speaker 1: so disheartening, and it's it's it's stealing not just your virtue,
Speaker 1: but it's like it's stealing your Yeah, it's stealing who
Speaker 1: you are. It's being completely violated on the most primal
Speaker 1: um of levels. And just for a depiction of that,
Speaker 1: it's it just gets me in my heart and I
Speaker 1: just I want to vomit. That's interesting because the way
Speaker 1: I look get Um, it's so interesting how people can
Speaker 1: have such a different perspective on that because I actually
Speaker 1: look at like a rape fantasy porn as the woman
Speaker 1: like that that Like in kink, it's like you there's
Speaker 1: a trust, there, there's a safe word, there's a and
Speaker 1: it's an opportunity to play pretend like when you were
Speaker 1: a kid, but now it's with sexual your sexuality, so
Speaker 1: it's adult playing pretend and it's and it's like I
Speaker 1: want to see what it feels like to have two
Speaker 1: three men take take control of me. And I'm gonna
Speaker 1: beforehand agree that, like I'm gonna say, oh no, please,
Speaker 1: don't am I safe word is rooster, whatever the funck.
Speaker 1: And it like allows you to play with your imagination
Speaker 1: a little bit in in a fantasy land. But I
Speaker 1: don't know because and you actually have control, like because
Speaker 1: rape is a is a control so but in that
Speaker 1: it's like it's like giving the person who is being
Speaker 1: raped the control back because they have the control to
Speaker 1: say when it's a fantasist starts, now, that ends. Now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the same idea as a scary movie, Like why
Speaker 1: do we a scary movie? Well? I love when my
Speaker 1: boyfriend uh dominates me in bed or like hold me
Speaker 1: down or like says nasty, vile things to me every
Speaker 1: once in a while because but the only reason I
Speaker 1: like it is because I trust him. I've never trusted somebody.
Speaker 1: I've never met somebody so kind and genuine and loving
Speaker 1: and so that when we can get into that world together,
Speaker 1: it's so much fun because I love him, and it's
Speaker 1: I know, it just doesn't feel icky to me, but
Speaker 1: that's that's that's what it's about it's about trust. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you watch a video, you trust that the
Speaker 1: people in the video are not it's not you're assuming,
Speaker 1: really because who we don't know? Who knows that documentary credit.
Speaker 1: And I watched on porn a lot of those young
Speaker 1: girls walked into the scene going and they did it anyway.
Speaker 1: Girls want to girls want him, Yeah, Rashida jokes. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a brilliant doctoring. Yeah, because you don't think
Speaker 1: about how many girls get into porn and they only
Speaker 1: last for what a couple of months, three months? But
Speaker 1: then some girls really love doing porn. And I know girls.
Speaker 1: I have a friend who gets is getting into sex
Speaker 1: work and she loves it. She she loves it's it's
Speaker 1: a control thing. She's in control of. These men are
Speaker 1: like in all of her. She's beautiful and she loves
Speaker 1: having sex. She can get off if she likes a person,
Speaker 1: and she doesn't like the person, it's just sex gets
Speaker 1: her off. And I'm like, oh, that makes so much
Speaker 1: sense for you to do sex work. You love sex,
Speaker 1: you like being with different men, and you like pleasing men,
Speaker 1: you like getting pleased by It just makes sense to me.
Speaker 1: It doesn't day in the porn industry that's addressed in
Speaker 1: Hawk Girls Wanted is very much in tune with what
Speaker 1: we're talking about with the Coolidge effect, because these people,
Speaker 1: unless you kind of like hit big, even men on
Speaker 1: the internet or women, don't want to watch the same
Speaker 1: person in the porn video again. And that's why these
Speaker 1: careers weren't lasting. That was the whole reason that was
Speaker 1: addressed too. So it's just like it's just this new new,
Speaker 1: new new news. Not just that they weren't lasting. It
Speaker 1: was also that the girls had to keep going bigger
Speaker 1: and further and like they were comfortable with Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: there was towards the to the documentary, correct me if
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, but I think there was a girl that
Speaker 1: she had to do like a double penetration scene or
Speaker 1: something like that, and she was like, I don't want
Speaker 1: to do this and all the other girls were like, oh,
Speaker 1: you get paid like double for It was like fine,
Speaker 1: she's like working a double at Applebe's. I mean, there
Speaker 1: was a lot of ship going. Yeah, their cream pies
Speaker 1: are like eating vomit and ship like that. There was.
Speaker 1: It was a lot literally like so, um, are you
Speaker 1: are you still going to the meetings? I know short answers. No, Um,
Speaker 1: I probably should. Um I'm starting therapy on what days today? Monday, Monday, Wednesday.
Speaker 1: Um so once they have my first therapy session. UM.
Speaker 1: I personally did not get a lot out of the
Speaker 1: group meetings. I know a lot of people do, and
Speaker 1: they're super helpful if I can, like really like reading
Speaker 1: around people have a similar issue and they're all like
Speaker 1: trying to get better, and that's get better at a
Speaker 1: group or at least have the support of knowing that, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm going through this too, man, it sucks. Well, that's
Speaker 1: the same reason that I had so many people um
Speaker 1: exposed expose themselves to me ums Like um No, I
Speaker 1: had so many people admit that they also had a
Speaker 1: problem when I came out on Facebook. UM So it's
Speaker 1: it's definitely a social help. How long have you haven't
Speaker 1: How long has it been since you looked at porn?
Speaker 1: Two months? Masturbate? Still? What do you do? You just
Speaker 1: are you exploring how cool it can be to think
Speaker 1: of things in your head, like your imagination? Do you
Speaker 1: like it or do you miss porn? I do porn
Speaker 1: a lot. Do you think about porn when you're masturbating?
Speaker 1: Just replay it in your d do, Yeah, I have. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was like, that's probably what I would do. Yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: And I'll be honest, it's it's one of those things
Speaker 1: that I'm even trying to wean myself after off of
Speaker 1: masturbation because for me personally, I feel like that's causing
Speaker 1: a lot of other internal um, cognitive dissonances. Um. But
Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's my own thing. That's my own
Speaker 1: personal thing. Yeah. Well, but I was talking to someone
Speaker 1: um yesterday and he kind of prepping myself for this interview,
Speaker 1: and he said that sometimes he goes long periods without
Speaker 1: master beating because, similar to porn, he said, he thinks
Speaker 1: about and views women differently when he stops masturbating. And
Speaker 1: I found that really interested to view them as people
Speaker 1: when he doesn't masturbate. Yeah, really less less subjectification. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can. I can relate to that. And I will
Speaker 1: say in the past two months, um that as a
Speaker 1: Friday that I've given up porn um, I feel better
Speaker 1: as a personally, I feel I mean, it's only been
Speaker 1: two months. It's not really anything shake a stick at.
Speaker 1: But that's a long yeah. But two months as a lot,
Speaker 1: that's as long as you've went right. So I mean,
Speaker 1: how many times were you watching it per day? Once? Twice? Yes,
Speaker 1: but but every day? Yeah? Every day? Wait? Is that
Speaker 1: wrong to watch porn every day? Sometimes I do? Well,
Speaker 1: it's not every day, but only sometimes you're doing That's
Speaker 1: very true. But they they'll be giant chunks of time
Speaker 1: where I do. I think a lot of it is
Speaker 1: like the the intent you have when you get into it. Um, Like,
Speaker 1: are you doing it just for the sole purpose of
Speaker 1: getting off? Is it something that you genuinely enjoy? Um?
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like data tell, are you a porn
Speaker 1: kind of sore? I enjoy getting off. I can't like
Speaker 1: put an umbrella statement on it and say, you know
Speaker 1: it's it's it's bad for everyone. It's good for everyone.
Speaker 1: It's for each person. It's their own thing. I guess
Speaker 1: I just imagine you like we I thought you were
Speaker 1: going to say, like four times a day, or I
Speaker 1: miss work because of it. That's that's just um. You
Speaker 1: know how you have like functioning alcoholics. I felt like
Speaker 1: I was a functioning um. You know, I show up
Speaker 1: to work, I was never late. Um. Really, the only
Speaker 1: thing that suffered were my personal relationships with people and
Speaker 1: how I view other people like I and not just
Speaker 1: other people. I need to make the distinction. I viewed
Speaker 1: myself as a bad person. It's weird, Like, in the
Speaker 1: past two months, I finally come to the realization I'm
Speaker 1: not a bad person. Never were I was. I was
Speaker 1: doing something that wasn't good for me. It wasn't helping
Speaker 1: me in a lot of ways, and uh, it made
Speaker 1: me feel you know, there's a reason that I haven't
Speaker 1: been on stage in a year and a half. Um,
Speaker 1: it really got me down to think that I'm not
Speaker 1: good enough. You know something going back to the whole Facebook, like,
Speaker 1: think you post something and you really wanted to get
Speaker 1: like two hundred likes and it gets six. It's very defeating, right,
Speaker 1: that's a lot, But that's what point makes you believe.
Speaker 1: He really makes you start at five likes and then
Speaker 1: you go you work your wayup to wanting two hundred.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like you're never satisfied. When when we
Speaker 1: were on the iTunes charts and we were number one
Speaker 1: and then we went down to three, I'm like, what
Speaker 1: the fuck. Yeah, I'm like, Christina, shut the funk up,
Speaker 1: You're the top ten. Get over it. Very defeating. Well,
Speaker 1: I think on the reward system thing. Yeah, you never
Speaker 1: you never appreciate what you have, always look for the
Speaker 1: next thing. You always want more. And that's what porn
Speaker 1: teaches you, is that you can never get enough. It
Speaker 1: will never be enough, and you as a person will
Speaker 1: never be good enough. Um you you just can't measure
Speaker 1: up to to what you see do to make you
Speaker 1: feel bad about your your body or your your penis
Speaker 1: size or so much. No, no more. So personality really
Speaker 1: is interesting? Why personality because that's not really that doesn't
Speaker 1: come out and born uh well as an address her
Speaker 1: maybe like as someone who can like get a hot babe. Well,
Speaker 1: I think that is that's more of a physical manifestation
Speaker 1: of like what you're feeling inside of like you're not
Speaker 1: good enough and if you're not good enough, you're seeking
Speaker 1: after something that makes you feel good enough. Do you?
Speaker 1: Not good enough thing is part of that, like some
Speaker 1: of the chick Like if you watched Jenna Jamison in
Speaker 1: her prime right and you when you watch her her
Speaker 1: doing porn, she's stunning, she's beautiful. Do you think in
Speaker 1: your head I could never get that kind of girl
Speaker 1: all the time? So is that the not good enough
Speaker 1: meaning not good enough for that hot of a chick,
Speaker 1: because that it translates into so many different facets of life. Yes,
Speaker 1: that is definitely a huge proponent of it and saying
Speaker 1: that I'm not good enough to get this girl or
Speaker 1: any girl on this level or of this caliber. But
Speaker 1: let's be honest. If I go back through my track record,
Speaker 1: I have had girls of that caliber who have just
Speaker 1: been gorgeous and intelligent and fun and beautiful, beautiful, beautiful
Speaker 1: human beings. But then I go out and sabotage the relationship.
Speaker 1: I find ways to get out of it because again,
Speaker 1: my dopamine levels aren't reaching the same high as what
Speaker 1: they used to be. So how do you fix this?
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously two months that's really that's a great question. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean you're going into therapy. I would imagine that.
Speaker 1: That's the top of my head. What did you learn
Speaker 1: in there? In the groups that helped you other than
Speaker 1: like you are good enough? In uh uh? The addiction
Speaker 1: recovery meetings, Um, it's more so about support. Um. They
Speaker 1: don't teach you a lot of facts. It's not about UM,
Speaker 1: here's what you need to do to uh uh. I
Speaker 1: mean there's the twelve step program. So let's not discount
Speaker 1: that because that is a huge, huge, huge, huge help. Um.
Speaker 1: And it really teaches you a lot about how like
Speaker 1: what your addiction is and what it's doing to you
Speaker 1: and how to get past it. Um. And there's there's
Speaker 1: a lot of religious overtones. Whatever, it doesn't matter. But
Speaker 1: if that's comforting and that works for you and it
Speaker 1: helps you, then awesome, right, and then use it as fuel. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that was something that I um, I was
Speaker 1: going somewhere with this. My train of thought totally got well.
Speaker 1: I was asking, like, what did you learn how to?
Speaker 1: How do you fix this? Like you're saying in the
Speaker 1: support group there are the twelve steps, but it's not
Speaker 1: how to. I'm still learning. I'm still learning how to
Speaker 1: fix this? What works for you? Like maybe if someone's
Speaker 1: listening then they have similar experiences, Like what would you
Speaker 1: say to someone who says, dude, I have the same thing,
Speaker 1: how do I help myself at the expense of sounding
Speaker 1: like a Jesus freak? Pray? Yeah? Um, I don't think
Speaker 1: you have to be religiousive. I think prayer can be
Speaker 1: like a meditation. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I thought thought is
Speaker 1: very powerful. I mean, which is what prayer is prayers
Speaker 1: just religiously branded thought. But we all can subscribe to
Speaker 1: that actually believe in like the power of thought, even
Speaker 1: though I'm not I don't really believe in God so
Speaker 1: much anymore. UM. And now, how did you go about
Speaker 1: finding a particular therapist to deal with porn addiction? A
Speaker 1: lot of people that I work with, UM, you know,
Speaker 1: I work as a flight attendant for a major airline. UM.
Speaker 1: A lot of the people that I work with, I
Speaker 1: heard some rumblings about people going through the e A
Speaker 1: P which is a it's an assistance program sponsored by
Speaker 1: the company. UM. So you can actually contact an e
Speaker 1: AP representative through your if for anyone who's listening, if
Speaker 1: your work subscribes to such a thing, and it's uh,
Speaker 1: it's therapy for like I think it's like six or
Speaker 1: seven dollars a session. WHOA yeah again, if your if
Speaker 1: your company subscribes to this program. UM. If you don't
Speaker 1: have that kind of an outlet or opportunity, UM, use
Speaker 1: your insurance, go find a therapist. If you don't have insurance, UM.
Speaker 1: Because any that's a special is specialized topic, right, I
Speaker 1: mean add Yeah. There's also an online support group called
Speaker 1: no fab UM just go to no fab dot com
Speaker 1: no Fab sense of Humor. That's so interesting. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: so many people who have just joined the group recently.
Speaker 1: And then what's what was the question that you had
Speaker 1: asked before that we were going to go back to? Okay,
Speaker 1: So the intimacy, like I was asking a while the
Speaker 1: back that you it's like you created a wall between
Speaker 1: sexual pleasure and intimacy as two separate things, and it's
Speaker 1: it seems like you never thought about joining them together,
Speaker 1: of getting off and having and having an orgasm with
Speaker 1: a person that you are intimate with. It's not just dirty,
Speaker 1: it's not it's not so compartmentally. Yeah, yeah, it's it
Speaker 1: seems like you Yeah, it seems like you cant compartmentalize. Then,
Speaker 1: and I asked if you've ever had intimate sex? I
Speaker 1: was like, if you have to think about it, didn't
Speaker 1: that answers That kind of answers the question what do
Speaker 1: you think of when you're having like the times that
Speaker 1: you've had sex? Like what and do you have like
Speaker 1: a ballpark number how many times? He's like, I feel
Speaker 1: like that's easier to understand, especially sexual partners. Um, I don't,
Speaker 1: I couldn't. I'm not really sure. How many do you know?
Speaker 1: How about approximately? How long are these people that you
Speaker 1: were having sex with for? Years? Months, days, weeks, seconds,
Speaker 1: some were weeks, some were months, but not like not years? Okay,
Speaker 1: all right? Just was there similar? Are uh trained? Like
Speaker 1: thought process going through your head while you're having sex
Speaker 1: with these like go back and going back through all
Speaker 1: of them. I was thinking about the whole time, thinking
Speaker 1: about technique. Yeah, what what else do I need to do? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like what I need to do? And it wasn't a
Speaker 1: technique to satisfy her? Was it a technique to satisfy her?
Speaker 1: Or was it a technique for you to live up
Speaker 1: to expectations that were unrealistic? That probably a little of both.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times I was thinking about um, like,
Speaker 1: because it's so easy for me to get off, how
Speaker 1: do I make it easy for her to get off?
Speaker 1: That question of the hour, Mr Vibrator. Yeah, it takes
Speaker 1: a lot for girls. Sometimes sometimes it doesn't. I noticed,
Speaker 1: I've noticed, Oh boy, Yeah, it's it's um And again
Speaker 1: that in and of itself is kind of defeating when
Speaker 1: you see that imporn. Sometimes it only takes a few
Speaker 1: minutes to get a girl off. You know, some some
Speaker 1: videos are like half hours. They didn't show them between lunch.
Speaker 1: They didn't show the fluffing. Have you ever been moved
Speaker 1: by sex with a person that you've cried? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: assume that was a no question. But could you even
Speaker 1: imagine that? Like, have you ever had that cream where
Speaker 1: you had sex with someone that you're in love with
Speaker 1: and you're like, holy shit, I am so I cried
Speaker 1: Once says it wasn't because I was moved. I think
Speaker 1: I think as a certain type of person, though I've
Speaker 1: certainly feel I've felty very deep love, but it's just
Speaker 1: not I'm not I'm not like a crying is not
Speaker 1: my go to thing like I think some people it
Speaker 1: is and some people it's not just like I'm not
Speaker 1: going to cry or I definitely had a girlfriend cry
Speaker 1: um in college. Uh like yeah, she but that was
Speaker 1: more so she was moved by your sex. No, no,
Speaker 1: she she thought Jesus hated her. Oh yeah, so she cried.
Speaker 1: Like sometimes when I come, like it'll be I'll feel
Speaker 1: like that feeling that you feel right before you're going
Speaker 1: to cry. Yeah, that's honestly, yeah, because I never go
Speaker 1: so beautiful. But that's like like bliss just like moved
Speaker 1: like like moved mountains, but like with my soul, it's weird,
Speaker 1: like something. Great sex is nothing like connection, but it is.
Speaker 1: But Yeah, when I think of great sex in my head,
Speaker 1: it's it's all about the connection. It's not about whether
Speaker 1: I got off. It's not about I mean, that comes later,
Speaker 1: but a lot of times when you're first having sex
Speaker 1: with someone, you're getting to another bodies, but when you're
Speaker 1: just moved by them and you're just infatuated with them,
Speaker 1: and it's just like I feel like that's an exciting
Speaker 1: moment though, like you have that, you know, remove sex
Speaker 1: from the equation. I feel that way when I see
Speaker 1: a play that is fucking beautiful, or when I see
Speaker 1: a American beauty that movie when I first saw I
Speaker 1: was like hypnotized by that. I've seen that movie thousands
Speaker 1: of times. It moves me every time. Picture Sam Mendez
Speaker 1: is directorial review for a feature film that I did
Speaker 1: not know, and then he was married to Kay Wins.
Speaker 1: I have them on a flight, both of them. That's perfect,
Speaker 1: that's awesome, the coolest person I've ever met. That great? Well, uh,
Speaker 1: is there anything else that you wanna talk about with
Speaker 1: with this, or that you feel like we didn't cover
Speaker 1: I don't know, um, maybe but nothing's coming to mind. Well,
Speaker 1: you keep us updated and maybe I would the process
Speaker 1: will have you back. Yeah, I would love to see
Speaker 1: what your therapists take on a follow up. I would
Speaker 1: love that. I think it's very I I know you
Speaker 1: you had gotten some you know you're talking your ears
Speaker 1: about maybe not that's not being the right time to
Speaker 1: come on because it's so early in the in this
Speaker 1: healing process. That's where people a lot of Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it's so interesting, like it's easy to come on
Speaker 1: when you're all better and like, yeah, I'm great, everything's great.
Speaker 1: It's been years. Can't even remember when I like porn,
Speaker 1: but like to come on in this very early stage
Speaker 1: when you're just so it's must be so every day.
Speaker 1: It's really confusing. And for anyone who's out there listening
Speaker 1: who has a similar problem or you think you might
Speaker 1: have a problem, or if you feel like not just
Speaker 1: with porn, but you know, with eating, with social media, drugs, drugs,
Speaker 1: like anything. If you feel like you're not good enough
Speaker 1: and that this substance that you're going to UM, if
Speaker 1: you feel like you're being dependent on this thing, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, try just just watch some of the videos
Speaker 1: that you know, I think you guys are gonna yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll put links in that. So much information is available
Speaker 1: and it was great and it was fascinating and it's
Speaker 1: just interesting to back it up like this is not
Speaker 1: just like when you're when you when you see that
Speaker 1: a brain is actually restructuring, you're like, Okay, this isn't
Speaker 1: just the thing that we made up that you know,
Speaker 1: society is telling us porn as bad and it's affecting
Speaker 1: us a six week thing. You're you guys were saying
Speaker 1: like it takes usually an average of six weeks to
Speaker 1: really break that pattern of addiction. Well, for it was
Speaker 1: saying for young men like twenties, thirties, it was saying
Speaker 1: four to five months. And then for other old men
Speaker 1: like older men in their forties and fifties, just because
Speaker 1: they didn't grow up on this internet point it was
Speaker 1: introduced with them later. That's, um, that's taking about two months.
Speaker 1: So I mean when you think about if you're a
Speaker 1: predicted to point for years, it's not that bad. It's
Speaker 1: it reminded me a lot of smoking, where like you
Speaker 1: can do a lot of bad stuff your body smoking,
Speaker 1: but the body is amazing and as soon as you
Speaker 1: stop it, it's pretty yeah, yeah, pretty amazing. Um, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for sitting down. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: What what do you want to promote? Oh man? What hey?
Speaker 1: Promotion is? Yeah? Um? What am I doing right now? Um?
Speaker 1: So I have a show I'm performing in the Alaska
Speaker 1: State Improv Festival. Yeah, it's in JUNEO. We have some
Speaker 1: people in Alaska in the podcast. Yeah, um so. Um April,
Speaker 1: oh man, I should have had this. It's it's the
Speaker 1: last weekend of April. So give us a link at
Speaker 1: some point and we'll post it in the in the description.
Speaker 1: I think it's as if fest or ass dot com. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you want to give out your Twitter or um
Speaker 1: yeah Twitter, you can follow me at Solo Improv. That's
Speaker 1: my personal one. Um. I have a movie review blog
Speaker 1: that I do at g LT Movies. I'm have a
Speaker 1: YouTube channel, press blog. Gotta love that movies. God loved
Speaker 1: that movies about movies, new videos, new new new blogs.
Speaker 1: So if you're like movies, I don't know what watched
Speaker 1: me talk about movies. If you like movies, always good,
Speaker 1: I do a better one I'm I'm like a perfect Well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for sitting down with us. This
Speaker 1: has been guys. We sucked the anti sluckhimmy podcast. We
Speaker 1: will talk to you next week. Tossing to sheet said, uh,
Speaker 1: so like it churning, it's distruck like concern sen your
Speaker 1: like concerns, wishful morning wan this night, dots of love,
Speaker 1: Oh the show night consciouns in your head, night concioun
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