Speaker 1: You were now checked in to Stand Up New York Labs.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, welcome to Guys We Fucked. Guys We Guys
Speaker 1: we Book. I'm Christina, I'm Corn We're sorry about last night.
Speaker 1: Coming to you from Stand Up New York Lass. Guys
Speaker 1: we Anti sluck shaming Podcast. I never stopped. Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: welcome to another episode of Guys We Fucked. It's Guys
Speaker 1: We Fucked lot shaming podcast. It's an anti slut shaming podcast.
Speaker 1: People can't tell our voices apart, so I try hard
Speaker 1: to insert reared voices. It's very funny to me because China, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I think we both have deep voices. But I
Speaker 1: think minds a little bit more annoying in New Jersey
Speaker 1: and yours is a little mind's more annoying. Well, I
Speaker 1: go like, I get excited and I talk really like high. Well.
Speaker 1: The thing is, I think the easiest way to tell
Speaker 1: is that I talk faster than you do. That I
Speaker 1: talk a lot certain facts. So anytime someone's talking fast,
Speaker 1: it's grin. And any anytime someone's making a weird mentally
Speaker 1: challenged voice, that's me. Um, how are you doing, girl girl?
Speaker 1: I have so much to tell you. You have no,
Speaker 1: you have no idea. Let's go come on, you have
Speaker 1: no idea? Hit me? All right, so let's start with
Speaker 1: the good news. Um, there's only one piece of it.
Speaker 1: But guess one guest, Christina, who did I wake up
Speaker 1: in bed next to this morning? Start with the d
Speaker 1: and who? Oh? Oh you know he's Oh my god, god,
Speaker 1: no he's married. Wait okay, uh the person who got
Speaker 1: mad that you talked about him on the podcast. That person, No,
Speaker 1: that would be a normal thing. Do I know them obviously?
Speaker 1: Is it a comedian? Have you banned him before? Oh
Speaker 1: my god, there's so many options. I was shaking my head. Sorry,
Speaker 1: that's not the best thing to do on a podcast.
Speaker 1: All right, no one else can see us. It is
Speaker 1: a comedian, and but I have not baned him before. Um,
Speaker 1: Craig Mahoney, that was Christine, if you can, there was
Speaker 1: John Mahoney. There was a challenge. Two weeks ago to
Speaker 1: the day, there was a challenge. Oh he's so hot,
Speaker 1: waist in front of me. And two weeks later I
Speaker 1: am reporting back. Oh my god, done. Was it everything
Speaker 1: he wanted it to be? More? I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: remember it, damn it. Um, was it at your place? Yeah,
Speaker 1: were there a lot of mice. We killed thirteen this week,
Speaker 1: So I would saying, dude, you're super killed five alone yesterday.
Speaker 1: Are you kidding? Nope? Does this does it look like?
Speaker 1: It doesn't look like it looks like you killed more
Speaker 1: than that. You're being modest because it's so depressing. I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry. Oh I was at I got home from
Speaker 1: work yesterday way and I went to war. I went
Speaker 1: to fucking war. He had the mice had made a
Speaker 1: house in like in this like basket used to keep
Speaker 1: my clothes in. There was popcorn. There was your chocolate. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: there was in it was in the kitchen. There was
Speaker 1: I just because I still have some stuff unpacked. There
Speaker 1: was there was rice because and this was this was
Speaker 1: a box. I I literally was like, I told my roommate,
Speaker 1: like last weekend. I was like, I think they're living
Speaker 1: in that box. Then she texted me because there's no
Speaker 1: food in that box. I'm like, let me take a
Speaker 1: look in this box myself. Not only was there food,
Speaker 1: there were it was like a mouse buffet, like if
Speaker 1: I couldn't put a meal together, the last supper for
Speaker 1: all things, mice like the best. And I know a
Speaker 1: lot of you people are have your cock in your
Speaker 1: hands right now, and you're like, oh, this isn't fun,
Speaker 1: cor and stop talking about my Uh. If you lived
Speaker 1: in New York with thirteen mice in your apartment you
Speaker 1: talk about it would be addressed on your podcast. Thing
Speaker 1: with your mices. They're really comfortable and having a gale,
Speaker 1: frolicking like snow white forest. It's it's very They're like
Speaker 1: at the beach. They're like on their Memorial Day vacation.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm so sorry. Whatever I want, so yeago,
Speaker 1: you fucked Gragman. So I want to go back to
Speaker 1: a little bit um number one. I So I went
Speaker 1: to uh the Fat Baby Show yesterday night because I
Speaker 1: didn't get out of the mouse apartment. My friend Blair
Speaker 1: Saki was performing and she was wonderful. Um, but so
Speaker 1: I went and you know whatever, she's she's a bad
Speaker 1: great and also a bad influence on me because we
Speaker 1: just at each other on So I wanted to use
Speaker 1: a lot of vodka later. Um, and I decided to
Speaker 1: drunk text Craig mahoney uh last night. Yes, And we
Speaker 1: have good experience. I have like a good track record
Speaker 1: with drunk texting. But you're pretty good at it. You're
Speaker 1: not sloppy a drunk texting. I don't think I knew yeah,
Speaker 1: because like smelling is good my yeah, so I uh
Speaker 1: so I knew that it was game on when I
Speaker 1: got the text back that said where are you right now? Yes,
Speaker 1: that was the best feeling in the world. I said,
Speaker 1: she was Eve never hooked up before. I said, Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm right here. Oh baby, I'm in your heart. So
Speaker 1: he comes down to the show from Yankee Stadium. PS.
Speaker 1: He was in Yankee Stadium. He was like a little
Speaker 1: drunk by he. I mean, he kind of always is
Speaker 1: um and uh it was great and I and like
Speaker 1: usually I am I am not that aggressive. I'm aggressive
Speaker 1: in real life, but I'm not super aggressive with guys
Speaker 1: unless we're already fucking. Like in Ben I'm aggressive, but
Speaker 1: like in that courting period, I'm actually super not aggressive. Craig.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting though, because even I took on
Speaker 1: this role of I can kind of say whatever I
Speaker 1: want to him, because you were kind of saying whatever
Speaker 1: you wanted. He thought it was really funny and that like,
Speaker 1: oh you look sexy. That's a nice ask, Craig, are
Speaker 1: you kind of poor with him. So my approach was
Speaker 1: just go start with that. If you notice every time
Speaker 1: he posted something on Facebook, I'll be like, good job, Pumpkin,
Speaker 1: Like I'm just like completely over the top, just like
Speaker 1: so completely over the top. And uh so Yeah. The
Speaker 1: tactic I used was a little something I learned from
Speaker 1: Jerry halliwell from the Spice Girls. Uh And that was
Speaker 1: where a motherfucker down, where a motherfucker down in bed,
Speaker 1: don't just where I was just like I am. I
Speaker 1: was not going homeless. I was going home with Craig Mahoney,
Speaker 1: Like it was not you got your eye in the prize,
Speaker 1: and you know what, it wasn't that hard. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be honest. You both wanted to bang each other. I
Speaker 1: just touched no resistance a lot. You know me smell.
Speaker 1: He's small cot because he came from and all. And
Speaker 1: the thing is, he won my heart this morning when
Speaker 1: he looked at me and he goes to be up
Speaker 1: sex and I was like, God, you're a man after
Speaker 1: my own heart. Craig Mahoney, We've asked that question too
Speaker 1: many times in our lives. I'm a mess. No, you're not.
Speaker 1: I really am not a lot of my senior apartment.
Speaker 1: I've been having a nervous right down, and Christina, this
Speaker 1: this Craig Mahoney story, that's the appetizer to the entree
Speaker 1: of what happened this week. And I'm sorry. I hope
Speaker 1: you don't have a lot of important things to drop,
Speaker 1: because well, I'm having a nervous breakdown. I have the
Speaker 1: horrible thing to drop. But it doesn't have anything to
Speaker 1: do with sex. I just I went into a depression
Speaker 1: coma after bomb. Oh that's right. Most of the people
Speaker 1: who listen to podcast probably have never done stand up comedy.
Speaker 1: It's it's yeah, it's a scary thing, but then you
Speaker 1: get over it, and then you do it. When you're
Speaker 1: doing it for three years, you accumulated good ten minutes
Speaker 1: that you feel good about that's gone well, and you
Speaker 1: do it at a comedy club that a manager booked
Speaker 1: the spot for you so we could bring his team out,
Speaker 1: and you fucking bought radio silence. It was the most embarrassing, humiliating,
Speaker 1: nauseating experience in my life. I didn't talk the next day.
Speaker 1: I didn't even talk. I just cried. My eyes were swollen.
Speaker 1: I was so upset. That's my story. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: mean you said it was. It wasn't like a Tuesday
Speaker 1: night or a Monday. It was a Monday night in fact, yes,
Speaker 1: and there was a lot of old The crowd was
Speaker 1: I would say, I think it's safe to say it's
Speaker 1: people over the age of sixty five. A lot of
Speaker 1: my stuff is about sex. It's very vulgar. Why was why?
Speaker 1: What was who was playing on the show? It was
Speaker 1: a new talent show, but it wasn't INTI I just
Speaker 1: didn't know. I've never I don't perform in front of
Speaker 1: the thing is blaming crowded. It was. It was crowded,
Speaker 1: but blaming blaming it on the audiences. It's an excuse.
Speaker 1: I'm really surprised, you know what. The thing is sometimes
Speaker 1: within you. I feel like new talent shows, the audience
Speaker 1: is generous, but maybe sometimes what happens is that because
Speaker 1: you're not one of your people that they know you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, because they're there to support someone very specific,
Speaker 1: it's not just to see a show. It was the
Speaker 1: most humiliated I've ever been in my life. Really, Yes,
Speaker 1: that's how bad it was. I hated myself so bad
Speaker 1: after that, I was so disappointed in myself. I didn't
Speaker 1: talk for a full twenty four hours. I agree that
Speaker 1: you shouldn't blame the audience, but at the same time,
Speaker 1: if you like your material and you're confident, I mean,
Speaker 1: do not like your mysterial because like I would get
Speaker 1: mad at myself when I tell a joke that I
Speaker 1: actually don't like and I like joke, and then I
Speaker 1: get pissed if it doesn't work because like I shouldn't
Speaker 1: have said that, right. Well, the manager gave me really
Speaker 1: great feedback because he's a very seasoned professional in the industry,
Speaker 1: and he said, like, I talk about you guys know,
Speaker 1: boyfriend's data porn star, and I have a lot of
Speaker 1: jokes about that, but they come from a very bitter place.
Speaker 1: And the thing is, at the time when I wrote them,
Speaker 1: I was very bitter, but now I'm not. I'm not
Speaker 1: a better person in general, exactly, I'm just not. So
Speaker 1: He's like, when I heard that, I'm like, what do
Speaker 1: you You sound like a bitter person and I know
Speaker 1: you're not. I'm like, everything I'm saying it's wrong. Anyway,
Speaker 1: that's it. I'm sorry. Really good sex last night. It
Speaker 1: was like the best. It was like wake up in
Speaker 1: the middle of the night, bang well, there you go.
Speaker 1: So that made me feel good. Okay, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: you got it. I would need to feel like I'm
Speaker 1: doing good art. I gotta feel like that or else
Speaker 1: I hate myself. No, I mean I need to feel
Speaker 1: good about the work I'm doing. Yeah, of course feel
Speaker 1: good about this podcast. I feel good about it. What
Speaker 1: else happened to you? I I what was it for me? I? Um? Okay?
Speaker 1: So after um, after I left you? You know, I
Speaker 1: saw you on what day was that? Sunday? Saw you
Speaker 1: on Sunday here at the club at stand Up New York,
Speaker 1: and I decided to walk to Columbus Circle and just
Speaker 1: take the Express treet. Sometimes like to walk when the
Speaker 1: air is like crisp and clean. You're going to go home? Yeah,
Speaker 1: well I did go. I was on my way home,
Speaker 1: but I just like to take the express train back
Speaker 1: up town. Um, and I ran into Frank shut the
Speaker 1: fund up. I don't know if I ever said his
Speaker 1: name before, but for those guys, Frank is b xex.
Speaker 1: Wait have you not seen him in I hadn't seen him. Wow,
Speaker 1: you look beautiful than your hair was freshly. That's so funny.
Speaker 1: Someone else said that you did you looked studying that,
Speaker 1: you know what, and it that always feels good, that matters.
Speaker 1: You know, No, it doesn't matter. And anyone who says
Speaker 1: it doesn't as an idiot, you're lying to yourself if
Speaker 1: you don't think it does. I like right now, actually
Speaker 1: like even just saying it, like, my heart is racing.
Speaker 1: I forget you dated him. Sometimes I can't imagine you
Speaker 1: guys together at all. It was almost exactly a year
Speaker 1: to the day of the last day I saw him,
Speaker 1: because the last I saw him was like April second
Speaker 1: or April fourth of last year. Uh, what what was
Speaker 1: going through your head? I'm walking towards you. Okay, we
Speaker 1: were walking towards each other. Okay, so you're bound to
Speaker 1: see You're gonna see both of you. Guys are gonna kill.
Speaker 1: The thing that happen is I saw him first. I
Speaker 1: thought we actually had seen each other in Unison though,
Speaker 1: and I thought we had that. I thought that he
Speaker 1: had seen me because I had seen him. I thought
Speaker 1: he saw me, and I kind of thought we had
Speaker 1: both with our eyes made a mutual decision that we
Speaker 1: were just both going to ignore each other. And I
Speaker 1: was okay with that. Really, I was okay with that
Speaker 1: it would hurt me a little bit. But I was
Speaker 1: okay with that, um, because it was both of your decision. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I UM, I really never wanted to see him again, yea,
Speaker 1: like every never. UM. And I don't feel out of
Speaker 1: way that way about and anybody anybody. UM, I feel
Speaker 1: like way about one person in my life. And um.
Speaker 1: And and he he didn't see me, And right as
Speaker 1: we're about to like totally pass, he noticed me. He
Speaker 1: rips his zero buds out, like excited to see me.
Speaker 1: And UM, that hurt because when your ex is excited
Speaker 1: to see you in that way like an old friend, Uh,
Speaker 1: they're over you. They're completely over you. He he also
Speaker 1: has has had a girlfriend for a while for almost
Speaker 1: for a little over a year. Yeah, so he lives
Speaker 1: with UM. And I mean, I don't think people are
Speaker 1: ever complete. I guess you can be completely over somebody,
Speaker 1: but there's still even if he was excited, I don't
Speaker 1: think that necessarily means he was over you. I mean
Speaker 1: he was excited. He was excited to see me in
Speaker 1: the way that UM Yeah, in the way that you
Speaker 1: would be excited to see a really good friend that
Speaker 1: you haven't seen. It's a real truth, the weight that
Speaker 1: was your relationship was not in his reaction. No, And
Speaker 1: for me, like I felt like a truck headhit like
Speaker 1: I it was I you know, I'm never short on words,
Speaker 1: and I didn't know what to say. So he was
Speaker 1: just like hey, and then he was just like the
Speaker 1: first thing he out of his mouth was like congratulations,
Speaker 1: and like in my head, I knew he meant about
Speaker 1: the podcast, but I said what because I just said
Speaker 1: I just said on what being mean to him. It
Speaker 1: might have come off as I was be mean, but
Speaker 1: I was honestly like it was. It was it was
Speaker 1: so hard for me to get the words to even
Speaker 1: leave my mouth. Um, that's gut wrenching and uh. And
Speaker 1: then I said, oh, thank you, um. And then I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, say something nice and I didn't, and
Speaker 1: I just go, oh, my brother saw that Seth Rogan
Speaker 1: thing you did, which probably sounds like I was like
Speaker 1: belittling it. I wasn't. I just honestly like didn't know.
Speaker 1: I got I couldn't remember the word video. It took
Speaker 1: me every piece of my brain to remember Seth Rogan's
Speaker 1: last name, because I was like, were you angry? This
Speaker 1: Like no, I wasn't angry at all, were you? I
Speaker 1: was sad And it was also really upsetting for me
Speaker 1: because it was the wake up call that like I'm complete.
Speaker 1: I was. I'm like, I'm so not over this, really,
Speaker 1: I in my everyday life, I am, and I know
Speaker 1: and I know it's like and I was talking to
Speaker 1: Paul about it, Paul's my best friend, and Paul was like,
Speaker 1: she was like, I think anyone would be deeply affected
Speaker 1: the first time you see the acts. I mean, the
Speaker 1: thing is like he wasn't though, and then um, and
Speaker 1: then but he's had a girlfriend for a year. I
Speaker 1: don't think. I hate that whole replacement thing though. It's
Speaker 1: such a course. It's the worst because I don't replace.
Speaker 1: I don't know you don't and um, some people do. Though.
Speaker 1: The thing is I've never placed people. I've never felt
Speaker 1: the way I felt I felt about anyone about even
Speaker 1: like my boyfriend, who I did it for five years.
Speaker 1: I love him dearly. But the moment the first time
Speaker 1: I saw him at my first boyfriend after many years,
Speaker 1: I kind of in my heart hope that I would
Speaker 1: be like, oh my god, I'm still in love with you,
Speaker 1: and I just wasn't at all, and then I was like, here,
Speaker 1: we're still in love with him with Frank, Um, I
Speaker 1: mean I don't know who Frank is anymore, which is
Speaker 1: such like I don't know, but I don't he's not
Speaker 1: and in fact, I don't even know if I knew
Speaker 1: the real I feel like he was kind of like
Speaker 1: being the person I he thought I wanted to date, um,
Speaker 1: But I know the last thing I want from anyone
Speaker 1: is for them to not be themselves, Like that's like
Speaker 1: my whole number one basis of life. I don't think
Speaker 1: that he wasn't himself. Do you think that? I mean,
Speaker 1: you know way better than I did. I don't know
Speaker 1: if he knew who him. He might have just been
Speaker 1: in such a his in his head. That's an excuse,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. I feel like he tried really hard, um,
Speaker 1: to be someone who would just like be the person
Speaker 1: I wanted and in and kind of like upset himself
Speaker 1: and destroyed himself in the process. He seemed really happy,
Speaker 1: and that made me happy honestly, because I do want
Speaker 1: and I think, um, I don't have feel I mean whatever,
Speaker 1: we all know my opinions on the new girlfriend. It's
Speaker 1: just like I don't want to say anything shitty. I
Speaker 1: don't know her, and honestly, she seems like a very
Speaker 1: nice person and she seems like a really good fit
Speaker 1: for Frank, and that's what he needs because I still
Speaker 1: do love him, honestly, that's my that I really like.
Speaker 1: I know, I love him because I really want him
Speaker 1: to be happy, even if it means not being with me.
Speaker 1: That I was just about to ask you, do you
Speaker 1: think one of the reasons why you're stuck on it is?
Speaker 1: I know you had a great relationship. You had a
Speaker 1: great relationship with other people before too, but he was
Speaker 1: the one who had control over this is ending. This
Speaker 1: is not going the way you wanted to go. You
Speaker 1: didn't see this coming, see you that. Yeah, that wasn't great.
Speaker 1: But then I mean, I I never loved that. I
Speaker 1: never loved anyone even nearly as close to the way below. Yeah. No, never,
Speaker 1: Um And the two of those factors combined equaled the worst.
Speaker 1: Yeah and uh. And then there was asked after I
Speaker 1: staid conversations, and I was like, oh, my brother saw
Speaker 1: he said it was good, and that's true. Like I
Speaker 1: wasn't trying to be like I don't want to think
Speaker 1: the thing is like I haven't looked at any of
Speaker 1: the social media since August, which is great. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: since and that was such an important step. You don't
Speaker 1: feel the recovery. Your urge to do it isn't stronger
Speaker 1: than you're You're the desire that's in you. That's like
Speaker 1: I know, I know what's good for me, and I
Speaker 1: shouldn't be doing Oh yeah no. I felt amasingly better.
Speaker 1: And then of course I run into him and then
Speaker 1: I like fell off the wagon a little bit and
Speaker 1: went and like went crazy and like looked at Twitter
Speaker 1: like you know what, I looked at it for a
Speaker 1: couple of minutes. I didn't want his Facebook. I just
Speaker 1: loved at his Twitter. I looked at her Twitter and
Speaker 1: it was just like I was seeing it and it
Speaker 1: was like this is if this is Like in a
Speaker 1: way it was okay because I was just like, this
Speaker 1: is what he wanted. Like their their relationship, the way
Speaker 1: they interact, is it different than yours? Over the top
Speaker 1: lovey dovey, Like it's not a way. It's not something
Speaker 1: that I could do, want to do whenever be my life.
Speaker 1: I couldn't exist like that. It's obnoxious. Um, it's gross.
Speaker 1: Like I just I mean it's like I think it's
Speaker 1: really I think it's really weird, Like I don't and
Speaker 1: you know, and and and I know this is exactly
Speaker 1: what he needs, Like he needs someone who's gonna just
Speaker 1: fucking publicly love the ship out of him because I
Speaker 1: love I think I loved him way more than he
Speaker 1: had any idea. But I just don't express it in
Speaker 1: the way that he's going to be able to notice it. Um,
Speaker 1: And that's you know, that's not that's not what he Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's not maybe not necessarily. Oh I need a
Speaker 1: girlfriend like this, And so we moved on to a
Speaker 1: girlfriend like that. It's like, Okay, this relationship, in my head,
Speaker 1: it's over. We've verbally agreed that it's over. Let's move
Speaker 1: on to something else. Oh, this is totally different, Let's
Speaker 1: try this like it's kind of he just went to
Speaker 1: that maybe because it's different, yah know. I mean them
Speaker 1: was so different from Steven's last girlfriend who just broken
Speaker 1: up then the opposite of her. The minute I the
Speaker 1: minute I looked a little bit into franks new girlfriend,
Speaker 1: I go, oh my god, he's going to marry this
Speaker 1: girl like this. I could just said that immediately. I
Speaker 1: could I'm not nearly when they were dating before, they
Speaker 1: say I'm not an idiot. I I can tell I
Speaker 1: know him well enough to note the legs. And then yeah,
Speaker 1: so we said that. I said, you know, my brother,
Speaker 1: I saw your seth through again thing. He said it
Speaker 1: was good, and then there was like a moment. We
Speaker 1: just sit there for a moment, kind of looked each other,
Speaker 1: and then he goes, okay, take care and then it
Speaker 1: wasn't like shitty. It was just like I think. But
Speaker 1: it's sad. I don't know what he expect. I don't
Speaker 1: it's to me like the fact that like he fucking
Speaker 1: sent gifts that I gave him back to my dad's
Speaker 1: store without a note, Like how how that's the last interaction.
Speaker 1: You never mean anything men anything to me? How am
Speaker 1: I going to greet you? And I don't think he
Speaker 1: was being excited or nice to me to be shitty.
Speaker 1: I think he generally was excited to see me, and
Speaker 1: I know that he is. He's always been supportive of
Speaker 1: me in the commune. I think he is genuinely happy
Speaker 1: for me. I don't know if he listens to the
Speaker 1: podcat whatever. I don't know. I'm you would you have
Speaker 1: him on the podcast. I don't know it's meeting seeing him. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I think that as much as I want to be
Speaker 1: true to everything, and like if it's yeah, but that's okay,
Speaker 1: I think that would be I think that would be
Speaker 1: the last episode. Yeah, okay. Did not want would be
Speaker 1: the last episode because of that, there's no there's no
Speaker 1: going back from that. And um, yeah, so that and yeah,
Speaker 1: And then I looked at his yeah, and I looked
Speaker 1: at his yeah, I was. And then I looked at
Speaker 1: it and I say, just you know, because of course
Speaker 1: of looking for like some like fucking subtweet to me, Um,
Speaker 1: because I'm a narcissist. And he mentioned that in the
Speaker 1: reason I was thought it was weird where we ran
Speaker 1: into each other because I know where he lives now,
Speaker 1: and um, he had just a lot of fate kind
Speaker 1: of like because a lot of things happened to make
Speaker 1: us run into each other that day, Like I decided
Speaker 1: to walk out of my way, he decided to walk
Speaker 1: home from the or where he works, and it was
Speaker 1: a lot and and I didn't know how to deal
Speaker 1: with it. I was so fucking depressed all week about it,
Speaker 1: and I I was trying to write comedy about it,
Speaker 1: and I came up with something that I think is interesting,
Speaker 1: but it's I don't think it's funny. But basically, like
Speaker 1: going and looking at his social media was like it
Speaker 1: was kind of like if you have like some piece
Speaker 1: of furniture from my KEYA right, and it's in your
Speaker 1: room and you put it together one day without instructions,
Speaker 1: and like it always kind of works, but like one
Speaker 1: of the drawers doesn't fully slide in, and you're like
Speaker 1: and then it's like one day you come across the
Speaker 1: directions and you look at the blueprint and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's how it's supposed to work. Like that's the best
Speaker 1: way I could like explain what it was like to
Speaker 1: see pictures of him or interactions of him and his
Speaker 1: new girlfriends really good. Yeah, because as much as it hurts,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I am not too proud to
Speaker 1: admit that that works better. That works bet better. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's that's a huge revelation and it doesn't feel great,
Speaker 1: but I was just like I want to cry, and
Speaker 1: like it was just okay, just like the fucking like
Speaker 1: and it was like I've played this out in my
Speaker 1: head so many times. You know, like and you're always like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this, and it's gonna be like I'm
Speaker 1: gonna look like this and I'm gonna say this, and
Speaker 1: he's gonna and it was just like miss me and yeah,
Speaker 1: well not even that. It's not even like I mean,
Speaker 1: or at least there's a tinge of I get, I
Speaker 1: get what happened, and I react. Yeah, and like even
Speaker 1: after all this time, it's just like I couldn't I
Speaker 1: like just my sense of pride, like I could never
Speaker 1: take him back. He's been so shitty, Like I've never
Speaker 1: felt like so horrible in my whole life, like this
Speaker 1: whole fucking The reason why we're sitting here now is because,
Speaker 1: like I said, sucking handle this and I still can't
Speaker 1: handle it. And I just feel like I'm like, you
Speaker 1: can handle it? Are you fucking talking? I feel like
Speaker 1: I've completely lost control. And then like I go out
Speaker 1: yesterday night, of course I get drunk, and then I
Speaker 1: like uh, and then I just like, well, no, I
Speaker 1: had a conquered cradmony. That was a difference that was
Speaker 1: beyond that. Actually on behalf of all women, you need
Speaker 1: to bang this beautiful, wonderful, nice sweet man no, that
Speaker 1: had to be moved out of the way so I could,
Speaker 1: because I knew I had to do that so I
Speaker 1: could because I'm trying to actually concentrate on on the
Speaker 1: other guy who I really liked, and I knew I
Speaker 1: couldn't really like focused on trying to date him seriously
Speaker 1: if I didn't get Craig. I know, so I just like,
Speaker 1: let me just do this. Yeah, absolutely, new guy and
Speaker 1: I have been like sexting all all week, and I
Speaker 1: just I adore him and he's so much better for
Speaker 1: me and he like gets me. But it's just like
Speaker 1: I'm just like this week has like just tried you
Speaker 1: between like the mice. I haven't slept so very shaky.
Speaker 1: I haven't like slept in like a week. You can
Speaker 1: sleep at my house. I know that. I feel like
Speaker 1: I just have to deal with it though, because like
Speaker 1: I mean, I stayed like when I stayed home, like
Speaker 1: I killed them all and I'm just like I feel
Speaker 1: like it's such a mess. But it's like I feel
Speaker 1: like everything was going so well and then it was
Speaker 1: kind of like it had like like Nope, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna go well anymore for you, And like this is
Speaker 1: exactly how it would be a like Frank was on
Speaker 1: the podcast. I would just sit here crying the whole time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but the thing is, uh, you are a very strong
Speaker 1: woman and you are going to be okay, and you
Speaker 1: are okay. I know you feel like a mess, but
Speaker 1: you're in control. I mean, I know things are honestly
Speaker 1: still going really well. But it's just like in the
Speaker 1: parts of my life that I care about, a lot
Speaker 1: of ship happened in the past week and then not
Speaker 1: sleeping thing and having to murder mice is the is
Speaker 1: horrified and it doesn't feel good and no one wants
Speaker 1: to kill another living. Well. I haven't been eating, kid
Speaker 1: eat in my house, so I just like haven't been
Speaker 1: like sometimes I just won't eat because I just can't.
Speaker 1: And I'm like trying to be really good about like
Speaker 1: my um, like my weight. So I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: like if I get back, it's a harlem at night
Speaker 1: and I don't have any food, Like, well, the good
Speaker 1: news is like kids, I just don't because it's like
Speaker 1: when I do eat McDonald's, like I can't. I don't
Speaker 1: have to stop doing that to myself. I mean, but
Speaker 1: then I do things like last night I had vodka
Speaker 1: for dinner, like I've had that, and I sound like
Speaker 1: such an out of control mester, and people are gonna
Speaker 1: be like, Ohren has an alcohol Listen, shut the I
Speaker 1: discussed this all the time, like mostly everyone I know
Speaker 1: New York City has a very unhealthy relationship with alcohol.
Speaker 1: I had said it before. I'm not an alcoholic, but
Speaker 1: I don't I have I mean, I just have a
Speaker 1: generally addictive personality. Obviously I was addicted to Frank. I
Speaker 1: don't think I addictive. I don't think addiction has anything
Speaker 1: to do with it. I think if you want to drink,
Speaker 1: because the thing is addiction to alcohol. No, no no, but
Speaker 1: I have an I'm addicted to food, and I get
Speaker 1: addicted to people sometimes. But um no, I'm not addicted
Speaker 1: to alcohol. I can go a long time without drinking
Speaker 1: without problems. Um. Sorry, we're only over. No, it's okay,
Speaker 1: It's okay. I'm gonna so we'll We'll get to the
Speaker 1: user feedback at some other time because I'm I'm excited
Speaker 1: about Yeah, I want to talk to our guests. She
Speaker 1: is a wonderful person. But I don't want to say
Speaker 1: anything until she comes on, because that's what I want
Speaker 1: to do. That's what we're gonna do. Yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: think she's awesome. All right, let's bring on Caitlin. Guys,
Speaker 1: and when six months said it ends when you get
Speaker 1: friends talk to you when you've drawn on, right, you, guys,
Speaker 1: we are here with our special guest today, Caitlin. We
Speaker 1: never we haven't said anything about you or like, we
Speaker 1: haven't said we haven't sucked you, not obviously. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: had sex with a goal once. I haven't, but it's
Speaker 1: not off the table. It didn't go well. I wish
Speaker 1: I would. I want I would try it again for sure,
Speaker 1: because I liked it. I set actually set up an
Speaker 1: okay Cupid profile strictly looking for women because I was
Speaker 1: really curious. Yeah, I've thought about putting like a Craigslist
Speaker 1: thing on because I just want someone who's just gonna
Speaker 1: come on over and like eat my pussy. Is that weird? Well,
Speaker 1: I didn't know. I didn't want. I feel like there's
Speaker 1: like a whole group of dudes that would pay you
Speaker 1: to do that, Like yeah, yeah, well I would know.
Speaker 1: I want a woman to do it, because the thing is,
Speaker 1: I don't wait, have you ever gone down on a woman? Yes? Okay,
Speaker 1: are you are you attracted to women or just no?
Speaker 1: As a as a general, I've never I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: not generally attracted to women, and I wasn't attracted to
Speaker 1: any of the women that I went down on. But
Speaker 1: I have had moments like at a bar or like
Speaker 1: whatever where I've felt attraction. It's a woman like in
Speaker 1: just like moments of erotically charged energy. Yeah, I felt that,
Speaker 1: like the way I'm attracted to men. I've never been
Speaker 1: attracted to a woman in that way. Like when I'm
Speaker 1: really attracted to a guy, I like feel it in
Speaker 1: my whole body, I need to be around him at
Speaker 1: all times. But with women, I'm like you, If I'm
Speaker 1: attracted to a woman, it's more of a thing of
Speaker 1: you are fucking beautiful, Like you are so sexy, I'm
Speaker 1: into it. It's a different type of attraction though, And
Speaker 1: that's why I wanted to make that separate dating profile,
Speaker 1: because I wanted to explore that because like stereotypical college years, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've had a crush on a girl, but that but
Speaker 1: it's like it was like when you have a crush
Speaker 1: on a guy in like grammar school, like fuck the
Speaker 1: guy you just like I want to be around him
Speaker 1: and like you smell him as he passed. That's how
Speaker 1: I feel about girls, like you're super cool? Is there
Speaker 1: any way for me to attach my identity to yours?
Speaker 1: That's what it's a girl crush. I mean, it's like
Speaker 1: that's a thing. Yeah, across crushes a thing. They're different. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because it's a different level of attraction. It's told. But
Speaker 1: I still like I felt it enough to want to
Speaker 1: be physically like naked in a bed with a girl.
Speaker 1: I wanted to know what that was like. I had
Speaker 1: a really great relationship with a with a girlfriend of mine,
Speaker 1: um best friends actually were roommates now, but we went
Speaker 1: through a phase where we would pick up guys together.
Speaker 1: So we did. We did like a series of threesomes.
Speaker 1: Oh one guy, I think, no, no, no, no, But
Speaker 1: we we really and we were a little bit sadistic
Speaker 1: the way that we would do it right, that sounds fun. No, No,
Speaker 1: it ended up as like a like an objective win
Speaker 1: for the dude at the end of the night. But
Speaker 1: there was like a solid couple of hours there where
Speaker 1: he didn't know which one was hitting on him and
Speaker 1: he didn't know him to like, am I about the jack?
Speaker 1: But right now. He was like, I don't know who
Speaker 1: to piss off, Like, but were you two going at
Speaker 1: it in a we're both going to fuck him? That
Speaker 1: didn't happen until later. No, we we set it up
Speaker 1: as like, let's hit on guys together, whichever one he likes. No,
Speaker 1: I don't know. We knew we were going out because
Speaker 1: we felt it was safe. We knew that I was safer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: to go home with the guy together. That sounds fun.
Speaker 1: It was, yeah, we Yeah, there was definitely no talking
Speaker 1: both of us out of using a condom. That was
Speaker 1: not That was never gonna happen. Yeah, yeah, How did that?
Speaker 1: How did that go down? Though? When in the moment
Speaker 1: happens where he realized the light you see that that
Speaker 1: must be an amazing moment. It was beautiful lightbulb click
Speaker 1: and that guy's that lucky motherfucker's eyes. He was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm going home with both of you guys? What how
Speaker 1: did that? How did he realize that? Um? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it was I was usually the instigator, and
Speaker 1: so I would usually sort of like push it in
Speaker 1: that direction and then she'd confirm, you know, like like
Speaker 1: he'd be looking at both of us, and then he
Speaker 1: would get really excited, but was actually we only had
Speaker 1: a couple of like really good ones, but unfortunately a
Speaker 1: lot of guys didn't rise to the occasion. They're like
Speaker 1: totally intimidated. But guys are so fucking intimidating. It's so like, hey,
Speaker 1: here's your fantasy, and they're like, it's literally like too
Speaker 1: wild and crazy. Guys the sketch from us and now
Speaker 1: it's like they go around saying it talking all this thing,
Speaker 1: like all this game, how they're gonna like smash the
Speaker 1: boobies into their face, and then when if a girl,
Speaker 1: when it comes when it actually is about that happened,
Speaker 1: they're scared out of their minds. I have had a threesome,
Speaker 1: one threesome in my entire life. It was two guys.
Speaker 1: They were straight. There were male models. They were beautiful,
Speaker 1: and I will say the the the act on paper
Speaker 1: fucking amazing. They're both beautiful, but it is overwhelming. You
Speaker 1: don't know what to do. There was no double penetration,
Speaker 1: which is something I was scared of double penetration. I
Speaker 1: did not want that to happen, and I did. I
Speaker 1: was like, are they going to start sucking each other?
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do do I just what
Speaker 1: do I do? I don't know what to do. So
Speaker 1: I was like, never had Yeah, yeah, I was two.
Speaker 1: I was two. In my head, I was too overwhelmed.
Speaker 1: So I do kind of get a guy saying well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I want that. But then when it actually comes down
Speaker 1: to that, going, oh, I hope I can live up
Speaker 1: and like please both of these women. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I think it's easier for I have a I have
Speaker 1: a joke in my set where I talk it. I
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, the general mantras that men are
Speaker 1: naturally more promiscuous than women. That's like evolution science, blah
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. There's a lot of reasons behind. That's
Speaker 1: never been my experience. I've never not been able to
Speaker 1: suck a dude because I lost my boner. It's never happened,
Speaker 1: Like men are not designed for the promiscuity. They talk
Speaker 1: like that's very true. You know, if I get in
Speaker 1: my head, I can fake it until I get out
Speaker 1: of my head, like you lick your palm and then
Speaker 1: you and you know what sometimes like if you want
Speaker 1: to have sex in your brain, like you're saying you
Speaker 1: want to have sex but you're you're not wet or
Speaker 1: your bodies like yeah, maybe not, you can still have
Speaker 1: sex exactly, very good. Yeah, it's true. And then I
Speaker 1: mean the tag to that is like the other cool
Speaker 1: thing about being a woman, as it doesn't matter how
Speaker 1: many dudes I I'm just gonna know it's my baby.
Speaker 1: That's science, you know, saying, but it's I mean, like
Speaker 1: my my first my first threesome experiences. My first boyfriend
Speaker 1: was bisexual, and so we did some experimentation outside of
Speaker 1: the relationship um or bringing in with other men. And
Speaker 1: the first one was like hot, so hot. It was like,
Speaker 1: I mean the whole thing, like the fact that I
Speaker 1: was in high school, the fact that you were in
Speaker 1: his mom's basement and blowing this guy and my boyfriend
Speaker 1: was watching and it was cool. And then it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: it was so amazing. Second threesome the most awkward sexual
Speaker 1: experience I have ever, Okay to guys. So he graduated
Speaker 1: and went to a local college and so like I
Speaker 1: went to his dorm room, dorm room to twin beds,
Speaker 1: two o'clock in the afternore right, Dave Matthews posters on
Speaker 1: the wall. It was bad, all the bad things like
Speaker 1: the vague smell of feet and like like ball smells.
Speaker 1: My dog always smelled like wet laundry away. There's nothing
Speaker 1: sexy about it. But I'm there and like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: two hundred dollars worth of lingerie, trying to look as
Speaker 1: sexy as I possibly fucking can on this twin bed.
Speaker 1: The other guy that was the problem. So my boyfriend
Speaker 1: was by like he was like, legit attracted men women. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this guy was totally gay. He wasn't all the way
Speaker 1: out of the closet like you pussy, That's what his
Speaker 1: face was saying. So so he so I'm there, like
Speaker 1: you know, presenting like a sucking peacock or something, buckles
Speaker 1: and feathers, and I'm a pretty confident. I feel very
Speaker 1: going out in Lingeriight that that's putting yourself out there.
Speaker 1: I know that I'm expecting sex. It's like a guy.
Speaker 1: It's it's more intense and more vulnerable than a dude
Speaker 1: carrying a cond of around. It's like I'm expecting there
Speaker 1: to be sex. Yeah right, so uh, you know, he
Speaker 1: walks in and I'm just in this outfit and the
Speaker 1: look on his face is like whole no, right, but
Speaker 1: we on the gay guys face on the gay guys
Speaker 1: face right, And so he walks in and we but
Speaker 1: we've committed to this plan, right, he's committed. We've committed.
Speaker 1: We're good liberals. We've read a lot of dance Savage articles.
Speaker 1: We're doing right. He's amazing, he's fucking I know, but
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, I'm gonna meet him and congress. Really,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you should come with me. I would
Speaker 1: love to do that. It's a it's an amateur porn
Speaker 1: festival and he has it in Seattle. But then he's
Speaker 1: doing a tour this year. So it's my friend. I
Speaker 1: found out I have a mutual friend with him, So
Speaker 1: I want to meet him. So be there with me. Yes, absolutely,
Speaker 1: why I'm gonna put that my date back. Let's come on,
Speaker 1: let's go. I mean, we're not gonna make porn. We should.
Speaker 1: I feel like we should be like talking to people
Speaker 1: and we should. Oh, I can make that happen. Let
Speaker 1: me let me work on that, all right, guy, it's
Speaker 1: not that we made that business plan. Yeah, you should
Speaker 1: totally have him on here. I think he would love this.
Speaker 1: He's the best person. I want to actually a listener,
Speaker 1: someone emailed us asking, uh, we didn't get to read
Speaker 1: emails this this episode, but someone asked, is there any
Speaker 1: other podcast that I can listen to that aren't like
Speaker 1: do she? People like talking? The Savage Love Cast is
Speaker 1: is a great podcast. Dan Savage is an amazing person
Speaker 1: and just there there we go. I'll leave it at that,
Speaker 1: go ahead, I love him. But when but at the time,
Speaker 1: like we were reading it and I think its age appropriate.
Speaker 1: It black and white thinking, um, we took some of
Speaker 1: his advice but not other parts of it, so we
Speaker 1: weren't yeah, if you just cherry Pickett. So we were
Speaker 1: really really committed to double penetration um as like the
Speaker 1: goal and we skipped over all of the four play
Speaker 1: or anything. You can't do it, especially with someone who's
Speaker 1: so obviously not into He was in college, I was
Speaker 1: in high school. We started day when we were both
Speaker 1: in high school, and then he graduated. So I'm sitting
Speaker 1: there in all of the lingerie and this guy, the
Speaker 1: gay guy, was like physically larger than my boyfriend and
Speaker 1: all the relevant ways, and so we're like, okay, vaginal this, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're in there. So he lays down on this twin
Speaker 1: bed and I straddle him and my my boyfriend and
Speaker 1: I had negotiated like like you should beforehand, right that
Speaker 1: we were we were doing the kind of monogamy where
Speaker 1: we were the only people having unprotected sex and any
Speaker 1: kind of extra curricular activities were protected. Right, Really insane
Speaker 1: about that. This is the guy lost my virginity two
Speaker 1: and before I lost my virginity, we dated for six months.
Speaker 1: We both got STD tests even though we were both virgins. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got on birth control and we using condom for like, yeah,
Speaker 1: Dan Savage will be so proud of you, so proud
Speaker 1: of us until this moment. So I straddle this guy
Speaker 1: who has an erection magically, I think it was my boyfriend.
Speaker 1: I have no idea. His eyes closed, what were the
Speaker 1: gay guys guys close? I don't remember. There was a
Speaker 1: lot going on. Straddle this guy and then my boyfriend
Speaker 1: and twin bed, florescent lights, a lot of buck and
Speaker 1: he and there are three of us, and so my
Speaker 1: boyfriend like sort of like squats behind me to like
Speaker 1: fuck me at the ass lube lots of lube, and
Speaker 1: he I don't know how long he lasted, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't very long. My boyfriend, so he comes almost immediately.
Speaker 1: So now I'm straddling this gay guy right with come
Speaker 1: dripping out of my ass that's always in the bathroom
Speaker 1: girl right and like and this fucking and and like
Speaker 1: and now my boyfriend, who put this whole thing together,
Speaker 1: it's like just sort of sheepishly apologizing for the whole thing,
Speaker 1: waiting for one of us to pretend to finish. Like
Speaker 1: it was the most awkward. It was terrible. It was
Speaker 1: so awkward. Wow, if what do Allen were to direct
Speaker 1: a porn that that would be It's exactly e. I
Speaker 1: don't like, I don't let people come in my ass anymore,
Speaker 1: just because the first time I had anal sex and
Speaker 1: my boyfriend came in my ass and I was fucking
Speaker 1: like dripping. It's weird. Like three days like shot so far,
Speaker 1: you got to go to the bathroom side. It's kind
Speaker 1: of you can't make yourself ship if you don't have to.
Speaker 1: So then it's just like in there and then it
Speaker 1: starts coming out and it's like the least sexiest thing
Speaker 1: it's happened afterwards, it's not. I remember I was like
Speaker 1: interning at this casting agency and I'm just like, what
Speaker 1: is happening to my ass. It's like burning and ship
Speaker 1: on my What is what is going on here? It's
Speaker 1: still up the insurance going to the bathroom a lot today.
Speaker 1: They probably thought I had my period. Oh no, sorry,
Speaker 1: I was fucked up. The ASP and my current walking
Speaker 1: like a penguin story my friends so funny. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: now anal sex means to me like I'm going to
Speaker 1: spend a couple of minutes in the bathroom trying to
Speaker 1: get all of that semen doing like the anal kegels
Speaker 1: or something. It's growth. I just can't do the I mean,
Speaker 1: just do it and then come some elsewhere. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I I like it. Um, I'll do I'll do
Speaker 1: anal sex as part of a larger like humiliation narrative
Speaker 1: or like some part of the dom subplay. But I
Speaker 1: like feeling turned on by being humiliated exact, which I
Speaker 1: like enjoy I enjoyed that as well. But you guys
Speaker 1: like being yes a little bit. No, I mean it's
Speaker 1: there's there's there's limits obviously, But I like being dominated.
Speaker 1: I like being pushed around. I like being Yeah, I
Speaker 1: like that. That's interesting because I my I have been
Speaker 1: sexting a lot with Madoo this week and he uh my,
Speaker 1: like fantasy is like there's this there's this one girl
Speaker 1: that we kind of know um is into him and
Speaker 1: so but my, I'm not really so much into like
Speaker 1: the sex with a girl, but like I get very
Speaker 1: turned on about Like I want the thought of watching
Speaker 1: him like fucking like slap her in the face with
Speaker 1: his cock and like like tie her up and like
Speaker 1: just come all over her. Like just that sounds wonderful
Speaker 1: but not me. But but I see, I like I
Speaker 1: I like the idea of my boyfriend sucking another person
Speaker 1: or doing sexual things. Yeah, but I do think there's
Speaker 1: a humiliation factor tied into that because it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's sucking her or not me, what's I don't know,
Speaker 1: see my like voyeuristic. I like I would, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know if I would like I
Speaker 1: don't think I would like to watch someone I really
Speaker 1: like to actually have vaginal intercourse with someone, but sun
Speaker 1: him of the ask or I would really like slap
Speaker 1: him around sounds great, so watch someone else give him
Speaker 1: a blow job. Because I'm like, oh, I had one
Speaker 1: of the like if you were you were to write
Speaker 1: a script, like a subdom script, I that was my
Speaker 1: first blow job experience, and it was incredible. I was
Speaker 1: in a weird like sexual history but which I'm surprised
Speaker 1: we have a gut to yet, right, And it starts early.
Speaker 1: I belonged to this organization that was like this weird
Speaker 1: anarcho thing. We were loosely affiliated with food and upon
Speaker 1: we did a lot of like weird anarcho ship and
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of gender bending within that as
Speaker 1: part of the general like questioning authority and questioning all
Speaker 1: of the rules. So before I lost my virginity, I
Speaker 1: was part of a triad relationship with a guy who
Speaker 1: identified as bisexual a woman. Was it the same guy
Speaker 1: that you had these three syms? No different, dude? Uh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is where I met. All of my bisexual men
Speaker 1: um were wonderful man who identified as a lesbian, and
Speaker 1: so this bisexual guy also he also was gender flexible,
Speaker 1: so with her he identified as a lesbian woman and
Speaker 1: with me identified as a heterosexual man. And then I
Speaker 1: was like two different eyes, sides of himself that he
Speaker 1: could explore either simultaneously or separately. Right, all right, I
Speaker 1: get that they were older than I. They were three
Speaker 1: years older than I was, and they were also both
Speaker 1: you're like super young and you've had a lot of
Speaker 1: advanced sexual experience, but it intelligent, well informed. We were
Speaker 1: reading a lot of literature, a lot of literature. It was.
Speaker 1: It was a big reading about sex, right, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: how I got off. Now I read my porn. But
Speaker 1: she did say she read porn earlier, like do you
Speaker 1: watch porn because I read my porn. She was like,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that sounded really obnoxious. I was like, no, no no, no,
Speaker 1: it's hotter because you exactly you get to the side
Speaker 1: is the hand lines and written porn, which is a
Speaker 1: real weird late like razor bumps where you're God, now
Speaker 1: I'm invests. I O, God, I've paused porn and gotten
Speaker 1: super obsessed with like family portraits in the background, like
Speaker 1: like I'll see a fucking family photo or I mean like, no,
Speaker 1: you gotta zoom in on that. I don't know who
Speaker 1: these people are. I don't know what's going on. I
Speaker 1: want more information. I got a little c S I
Speaker 1: visual porn. Yeah, so we're working. Um so this so
Speaker 1: this woman who identifies as a lesbian um taught me
Speaker 1: how to go down on this guy was my first
Speaker 1: glow job. Experience that we're in we're in my bedroom. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well yeah, she was also a vegan that war leather.
Speaker 1: Like there was a lot of like no one's fully
Speaker 1: gay er straight, and I will die, I will. I
Speaker 1: don't believe anyone. I mean, she was being sexual with
Speaker 1: this person. Like I would also say people that are
Speaker 1: like genuinely transgender that end up going through with the surgery,
Speaker 1: if they have sexual experiences before that probably acknowledged the
Speaker 1: genitalia that they have at that moment. So like, you know,
Speaker 1: she's being sexual with this person who is identifying as
Speaker 1: the gender of a woman, still has this penis. That's
Speaker 1: like sexually engaged in what's happening. So uh you know
Speaker 1: we Yeah, I remember she walked me through the whole thing.
Speaker 1: So like he's there and I'm going down on him,
Speaker 1: and she's like giving me pointers and showing me different
Speaker 1: things that we're both like sort of going back and forth,
Speaker 1: and it was yeah, like doesn't that Yeah that sounds great. Actually, honestly,
Speaker 1: that sounds amazing. What did she suck as dick to
Speaker 1: like I'll do it like this and she showed you fabulous? Wow?
Speaker 1: I like him? Yeah, Like I don't mind being instructed
Speaker 1: neither in the bedroom. There's a way to do it
Speaker 1: that's the perfect way to do it. There's also way
Speaker 1: to do it that's not the problem. Yeah, of course,
Speaker 1: I go fund yourself, leave my apartment. Way to do
Speaker 1: You know, you got to do what feels right to you.
Speaker 1: I feel like more women should be involved in that.
Speaker 1: I think more instruction giving. No. I think should be
Speaker 1: willing to walk away at awkward moments, like I feel
Speaker 1: like we were there's something, there's something in us where
Speaker 1: it's like, past a certain point, we've like committed to
Speaker 1: the sexual act, so willing to tolerate all kinds of
Speaker 1: bullshit after that, and even even yeah, once you made
Speaker 1: it up in your head, we're doing this, there's not
Speaker 1: even an option to turn back, right, even if you
Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable. Yeah, and it's like no acknowledge that you're
Speaker 1: uncomfortable either, be willing to say it out loud, and
Speaker 1: be willing to say it out loud with the conviction
Speaker 1: of being willing to walk away even if it's four am,
Speaker 1: and even if the train isn't running an express anymore, Like,
Speaker 1: just be willing to pay attention to what's what your choices.
Speaker 1: I've had a guy. I actually had a guy do
Speaker 1: that to me. Who he we were We were just
Speaker 1: having like we weren't we were. He was my long
Speaker 1: time fun buddy, and we just weren't vibing that night.
Speaker 1: And he was just like, I can't, I can't, I
Speaker 1: can't do this right now. He's like, you can stay,
Speaker 1: but I can't. Of course I didn't stay. I was
Speaker 1: just like, I like, all right, okay, either going to
Speaker 1: pull out in the moment right now, or you're gonna
Speaker 1: have meaningless sex with me while your daydreaming about something else. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I gave I used some advice to a roommate of
Speaker 1: mine recently that may have been paternalistic. It may have
Speaker 1: been sexist in that sort of believing in the patriarchy
Speaker 1: sort of right. She was twenty years old and had
Speaker 1: a Tinder date and she went over to this guy's
Speaker 1: apartment who was thirty. Um had his own apartment lowery
Speaker 1: side right Um. And then uh, it's like three or
Speaker 1: four o'clock in the morning. She's got a you know,
Speaker 1: all of her ship with her or something. He freaks
Speaker 1: out and it's like, I'm just not uncomfortable with you
Speaker 1: being here anymore. And and then like they don't, they
Speaker 1: don't have sex, and then she because it's four am
Speaker 1: on a weekend, it takes her ninety minutes to get home.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, no, no, no no. If you were
Speaker 1: going to if you, as an older man, are going
Speaker 1: to kick a young woman out of your bed, you're
Speaker 1: gonna put her. You're gonna put her in a cab
Speaker 1: like a goddamn grown up. That is what that's what
Speaker 1: you're gonna do. And I don't hold women to that.
Speaker 1: If you're going to kick a dude out because he
Speaker 1: made you uncomfortable, you're just going to kick a dude out.
Speaker 1: But if but as I don't know, as a man
Speaker 1: woman actually like a third year old man, twenty year
Speaker 1: old woman, you're gonna put her in a cat Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the thing is for me, I would I think that
Speaker 1: he should offer, but I would never accept the money.
Speaker 1: Really if I as if I was somebody wake me
Speaker 1: out there and then try to pay for my cab,
Speaker 1: I'd slap him in the face. I would I would
Speaker 1: accept them that It's very patronizing to me to give
Speaker 1: it because it's like I hate that, like money, here's
Speaker 1: some money to solve this, Yeah, it's not sol accepting
Speaker 1: the money. I'll think it's I don't like that. I
Speaker 1: really hate accepting money from dudes. Actually I would if
Speaker 1: I were her, I would, I mean, I would have
Speaker 1: very much respect him to offer, though you wouldn't be
Speaker 1: in but you said, you're saying right now that you're
Speaker 1: being sold. I would expect some to offer, but I
Speaker 1: wouldn't accept it. I wouldn't. I would just be like,
Speaker 1: no things, cause there's a douche move. So you're gonna
Speaker 1: get a douche response, but you better offer. I would
Speaker 1: take it, just thank you, thank you for the waste
Speaker 1: of my time, sir. That'll be So let's get into
Speaker 1: something that. Yeah, I actually I have a different relationship
Speaker 1: with money and men and sex and all. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I was gonna say, I was like, you kind
Speaker 1: of came on as this mystery woman. So yeah, so
Speaker 1: I know, and everyone's like, who then is Katelin? My
Speaker 1: friend Caitlin? Who is Katelin? Uh? So we're let's tell
Speaker 1: everyone why we have Caitlin on the podcast. It was
Speaker 1: a very very funny comedian. That's how we know her.
Speaker 1: And she's also was an escort and I personally my boyfriend.
Speaker 1: You stayed a porn star to take a shot, talk
Speaker 1: about it all the time. And but the thing is,
Speaker 1: she was a I got to know her through him,
Speaker 1: just because they had recently broke up and we started
Speaker 1: our relationship and they were dating for a while. I
Speaker 1: got to know all about her, kind of looked her up,
Speaker 1: and she was a very sex positive, intelligent, smart woman, beautiful.
Speaker 1: I don't know, obviously she had she was a little
Speaker 1: crazy or but they had had nothing to do with
Speaker 1: her being a sex worker. Yeah, exactly exactly, arid there,
Speaker 1: crazy too, She's a smart woman, owned her decisions, felt
Speaker 1: great about him, and I remember being uncomfortably inspired by
Speaker 1: that because I was jealous of her because I was like,
Speaker 1: she's hotter than me, and I feel weird. And also
Speaker 1: thousands of million however, many men like fawn over her,
Speaker 1: and that's gotta be that you gotta brush your shoulders
Speaker 1: off when you date that she's not anyway, So you
Speaker 1: have done escort work and you so we talked a
Speaker 1: little bit about this in the hallway of State, U
Speaker 1: from your classy. Let's go ahead and clarify for everyone,
Speaker 1: because I know that the word escort comes many people,
Speaker 1: many things different to different people, and I fully believe
Speaker 1: in each individual sex workers right an ability to define
Speaker 1: for herself what that means. In my case, it meant
Speaker 1: exchanging sex for money pretty explicitly. Yeah, so I was
Speaker 1: not accompanying people to two events. You said a quote
Speaker 1: that a parent said to you, your parents, and it
Speaker 1: was the most amazing at he said that to me.
Speaker 1: I want to say this to my child. Sure, Um,
Speaker 1: it was. My My father and I have a great
Speaker 1: relationship to this day. I feel like I can talk
Speaker 1: to him about about almost anything with boundaries. But when
Speaker 1: I was, he and my mother have, um have a
Speaker 1: strong relationship that I don't fully understand. They're still married.
Speaker 1: I've been married for thirty years. But my mom is
Speaker 1: this like hippie dippy liberal who likes to go to
Speaker 1: drag shows and spot and my dad is a conservative
Speaker 1: and like dignity is very important to him, and he
Speaker 1: was in the US in the army for thirty years
Speaker 1: and he has a lot of uh dated beliefs. I
Speaker 1: think about women and sex and gender and what that means. Um.
Speaker 1: So when I hed apparently just lost a fight to
Speaker 1: my mom, I think he drove me to school every
Speaker 1: day and so I was twelve or thirteen and he
Speaker 1: and he says, Caitlin, take your headphones out. I want
Speaker 1: to have a conversation with you. Um. I was wanted
Speaker 1: to listen to my music. That was our compromise. He
Speaker 1: could listen to conservative talk radio and I could like
Speaker 1: blast pink and what or whatever? And uh. And so
Speaker 1: he's like, take your headphones. I don't want to talk
Speaker 1: to you. And I want to have this conversation. I
Speaker 1: only want to have it once. All right, cool all
Speaker 1: years He said, Uh, you are going to make choices
Speaker 1: about sex that are different from the choices that I
Speaker 1: would have you make. And that's okay. Um. And I
Speaker 1: want you to know the most important thing, which is
Speaker 1: if you are in ever in any kind of trouble,
Speaker 1: you can always come to me. I will always help you,
Speaker 1: I will always love you. And third, if there's any
Speaker 1: way for you to prevent me from knowing that you're
Speaker 1: having any kind of sex, you should do that. Lie
Speaker 1: to me, hide your ship. I don't want to if
Speaker 1: you have If you have a concern, you can come
Speaker 1: to because exactly because the relationship that I have as
Speaker 1: your father is different than any relationship that you have
Speaker 1: with anyone else and my feelings about what you're doing sexually.
Speaker 1: That's that's unique, and it shouldn't. I don't want I
Speaker 1: don't want it to constrict you. I don't want to
Speaker 1: constrain you. I want you to feel free to do
Speaker 1: your ship. I just you know, like if you could
Speaker 1: not wear tassels like to Thanksgiving or something, that would
Speaker 1: be that'd be great. And how old were you when
Speaker 1: he said this? Okay, y, that is to me, that
Speaker 1: is the perfect sex talk for me. I totally respect
Speaker 1: that comment. But I did you ever you feel like
Speaker 1: someone saying, like, be free, but just don't let me
Speaker 1: know you're being free. There there's a certain there's a
Speaker 1: certain bit of suffocation. It's coming from two different places.
Speaker 1: I think that that's that father daughter I understand from.
Speaker 1: But for a father to think their daughter is not
Speaker 1: a sexual being is or or not to like, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like I can definitely see
Speaker 1: where the good it is that but it would I
Speaker 1: don't know that it would bother me a little bit
Speaker 1: because you're saying because there's a contradiction, Yeah, there's totally contradiction.
Speaker 1: There's also a contradiction and a father looking at his
Speaker 1: daughter as a sexual being because you have the father's
Speaker 1: side of you that goes no one from my baby,
Speaker 1: and then you also have the human side slash a
Speaker 1: little bit of the father's side going obviously she's gonna
Speaker 1: have sex. Woman. We're all sexual people that I don't
Speaker 1: think it's any I don't know. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: feel like I I empathize with my father a little bit,
Speaker 1: like I don't have children myself, but I get weird,
Speaker 1: icky feelings thinking about my parents as sexual people. They're sexual.
Speaker 1: Parents have ruined so many masturbation moments for me because
Speaker 1: I'll fun I don't they just it's just like it's
Speaker 1: like the more you try not to think about people,
Speaker 1: the more they seep into your son. Are you fucking
Speaker 1: kidding me? Right? Don't ever think for yourself. Ladies and
Speaker 1: gentlemen listening to this podcast like that, you don't want
Speaker 1: to think of your parents having sex, because then you're
Speaker 1: just gonna not I don't even think about about in
Speaker 1: the room with a turkey sandwich. I'm like, oh god,
Speaker 1: damn it, how did you get in a garage? Gosh,
Speaker 1: I get so I'll be like angry at like my
Speaker 1: parents like about this and like hold it inside. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: they didn't even do anything. So I want to know
Speaker 1: about the moment that you decided that I want to
Speaker 1: be an escort. I want to try this stuff out.
Speaker 1: How did this come about you? Oh? Man, it's so
Speaker 1: like for I come from money, like so there was
Speaker 1: there was no material needs. Well you're so set. I
Speaker 1: knew something that I actually know a lot of coney
Speaker 1: was both I got for money. I don't got to
Speaker 1: do ships, see you dad, And they just like they're
Speaker 1: like more hood than I mean, like you know, we're
Speaker 1: not talking about Vanderbilt stuff, but like you know, I
Speaker 1: didn't go into debt to go to college kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm an only child. Both my parents worked hard, um,
Speaker 1: and I've been squandering it ever since. But that's my
Speaker 1: whole job, spoiled brad that I am. But um, I
Speaker 1: was curious about it, and I also it was a
Speaker 1: sexual fantasy of mine, like I really um uh, Like
Speaker 1: I I thought that the professional sexual woman um was
Speaker 1: incredibly powerful. I really identified with that sort of like
Speaker 1: goddess narrative and somebody who was like so in charge
Speaker 1: of her sexuality that she monetized it. She called all
Speaker 1: of the shots very literally, and that also was my experience.
Speaker 1: You know, I am coming to sex work from a
Speaker 1: place of privilege, not having a financial need, sort of
Speaker 1: like breathing down my neck, not working for anybody else,
Speaker 1: um put me in a very powerful position as a
Speaker 1: sex worker. Doing something because you want to doing something
Speaker 1: because you feel like you have are two very different things,
Speaker 1: and so like that's that's part of the reason that
Speaker 1: I'm here is I believe so strongly in your mission
Speaker 1: about like anti slut shamy, and I think that we've
Speaker 1: attached a lot of meaning to the word prostitute and
Speaker 1: we have a very clear picture, you know, as a society,
Speaker 1: but what that means and my experience with it was
Speaker 1: so counter to that, and it's really difficult for me
Speaker 1: to engage people in conversation and talk to them about
Speaker 1: my lived reality, like being it actually happened to me
Speaker 1: to argue exactly, and then people talk at me and
Speaker 1: tell me what my experience was based on I don't know,
Speaker 1: some paper they read or something, and I'm like that
Speaker 1: that's just I don't know how to tell you that
Speaker 1: that just wasn't my experience, Like I get that you
Speaker 1: read this book, but like it wasn't that, that wasn't
Speaker 1: what I what I lived with. I've never felt so
Speaker 1: in control. And also it turns you on and you
Speaker 1: called all the shots. There's something I mean like being
Speaker 1: being like a teenager and naked in a room with
Speaker 1: somebody who is powerful, like you know, a judge or
Speaker 1: like just just a man of exactly an old man
Speaker 1: and telling them to do something that they don't want
Speaker 1: to do and being able to enforce that is was incredible.
Speaker 1: It was just great and it sounds great. I feel
Speaker 1: like I want to I want to take care of
Speaker 1: like the safety. Do you mind if I do like
Speaker 1: the little shape safe? Because I can feel like there's
Speaker 1: people on the other end of this and are like,
Speaker 1: but how is it that you were not raped and murdered? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I worry about the murder thing too. As I eat
Speaker 1: a cookie, Sure, that's fine. Are they like them? Breathing?
Speaker 1: She's looking brought in baked cookies? Guys? Yeah, I like them.
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm sorry, I don't even think from scratch.
Speaker 1: I don't want to eat all the cookies. I also
Speaker 1: help in infient days. You should eat those cookies. You
Speaker 1: deserve more than major And based on this intro, do
Speaker 1: you deserve them more? I deserve nothing, Christina. I'm really
Speaker 1: all right. I'm gonna over you want too, I hate anyway,
Speaker 1: go ahead? Sure safe safety safety. So the safety concern
Speaker 1: was I I had a screening process, so before any
Speaker 1: whenever got to me, um, they needed to send me
Speaker 1: an email with their real name, where they worked, and
Speaker 1: two industry references. So that's two other women that work
Speaker 1: in the area that they've successfully seen and and not.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't weird, right, And that was like, that's
Speaker 1: very good protocol. Women the protocol. Yeah, that's yeah, that's
Speaker 1: part of the protocol. I'm sorry, women in the sex industry. Yeah,
Speaker 1: other prostitutes in the area. That's so, that's so fascinated.
Speaker 1: That's great. It's that was a thing. That's a system.
Speaker 1: It should be at all. And it also it's interesting
Speaker 1: because the kind of people you got know how to
Speaker 1: deal with escorts some crazy first time or exactly. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to deal with any new basis. I'm not
Speaker 1: teaching anybody anything right at that, Like when you first
Speaker 1: started out, you you you're like, oh, I know, you
Speaker 1: seem it seemed like you knew exactly what you wanted,
Speaker 1: what you wanted to do, how to how to make
Speaker 1: that happen, I mean, And the other thing that I
Speaker 1: did that was sort of interesting, um looking back, and
Speaker 1: it was it was really smart in retrospect, I'm not
Speaker 1: quite what I was thinking at the time, but I
Speaker 1: basically looked at what everyone else was charging on these
Speaker 1: these message boards. This is before smartphones, so this is like, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, two thousand and five six, but you know,
Speaker 1: the internet is up and running, um, And so the
Speaker 1: message boards is how we did a lot of our communication.
Speaker 1: And that's where men would be blacklisted if they did
Speaker 1: something wrong within the community. In the community exactly, So
Speaker 1: I always checked that, um, and you could black list people,
Speaker 1: and people use that as they should get short a
Speaker 1: woman on money. That like turns a consensual act into rape,
Speaker 1: is what I believe. Like if you if you guys negotiate,
Speaker 1: you're going to pay X for Y, and then you
Speaker 1: don't pay that. But that doesn't business. Don't be a dick,
Speaker 1: right exactly. So there's there're more. There were really there
Speaker 1: were consequences for men. The other thing you have to
Speaker 1: remember is that they're using their legal name and I'm not,
Speaker 1: which means that there're suddenly in a position where they
Speaker 1: can become google able in a way that I am not.
Speaker 1: You obtain it, I never will have, so two into
Speaker 1: two references. So the first thing that I would do
Speaker 1: is I would call their work UM, and I would
Speaker 1: ask for their full name UM. And if they said
Speaker 1: sure one moment, then I'd hang up transaction over. If
Speaker 1: they said, we've never heard of so and so, Okay,
Speaker 1: you've lied to me, have you, We're done, very absolute
Speaker 1: fire away. Ye. That just simple end of it. That
Speaker 1: they trusted you with their full name to not out them.
Speaker 1: Obviously you're not. There's a lot of mutual trust there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So there. It would make the experience when you're actually
Speaker 1: physically in the same room together all the more comfortable,
Speaker 1: exactly because there's already a level of trust. They're also
Speaker 1: men are very I feel like Lottie do when they're
Speaker 1: dealing with their penises, like I'll they'll they'll give you
Speaker 1: a lot of info. Yeah, I mean it's a lot
Speaker 1: of but the non shading ones, well, that's the other
Speaker 1: thing that I when you when you talk about prostitution,
Speaker 1: the the image that people pull up is desperate women
Speaker 1: that may or may not have either a substance abuse
Speaker 1: problem or some other desperate life situation. Who knows that
Speaker 1: are working in really dangerous conditions, like on the street.
Speaker 1: And it's the way that I would describe it is
Speaker 1: the difference between what I did and a woman in
Speaker 1: that situation. Is the difference between like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: some kid that inherited a lot of money starting organic
Speaker 1: community farm and a migrant farm worker, Like they're both farmers,
Speaker 1: but their experiences are so radical. Well yeah, and and
Speaker 1: and I'm glad you're I'm glad you said that, because yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't want in anyone way, Like there's a lot
Speaker 1: of prostitutes on the streets deal with some nasty and
Speaker 1: that's not cool, and that's not a great and that's
Speaker 1: not sex positive for anyone. It's not. But exploitation, exploitation
Speaker 1: is exploitation is exploitation, Like I don't think that there's
Speaker 1: what I would offer is I don't think there's anything
Speaker 1: unique about the sex industry that makes it extra exploitative.
Speaker 1: Like and I will tell you that my experience working
Speaker 1: as a prostitute, running my own business, calling the shots,
Speaker 1: being very much in charge and my experience working as
Speaker 1: a barista at Starbucks, like I've never felt so exploited
Speaker 1: like life. It was the worst in every way America.
Speaker 1: And that's a very interesting point. Well, and I think
Speaker 1: that is all good point. This all goes back to
Speaker 1: the fact that America, especially the whole world, but America
Speaker 1: primarily is so weird about sex, so quick in sex,
Speaker 1: and god forbid someone's vagina. They want to they want
Speaker 1: to take away from what they're fucking up. Right. I
Speaker 1: believe that there can be dignity and all kinds of work,
Speaker 1: and they're probably could have been more dignity in the
Speaker 1: work that I did start Bucks, but I just didn't
Speaker 1: want to be there so hard. Oh god, I felt
Speaker 1: so much more demeans like getting coffee for when I
Speaker 1: was an intern at late night TV shows than like
Speaker 1: getting funcked in the ass by like a guy I
Speaker 1: don't know that well, because like that was my that
Speaker 1: was I want to finish the safety thing, so like
Speaker 1: all of this stuff, so uh, you know, I uh.
Speaker 1: The reason I asked for two references I needed to
Speaker 1: contact one. I didn't need to contact both. I needed
Speaker 1: to get in touch with at least one, so I'd
Speaker 1: send them an email or I'd call them, depending on
Speaker 1: you how much information I had about that person. UM,
Speaker 1: and you very quickly develop a community, UM, and it
Speaker 1: would be it would be bad protocol to give somebody
Speaker 1: a fake reference. Like women looked out for each other
Speaker 1: just sort of by virtue of being a part of
Speaker 1: this community's kind of like a comedy community. And we
Speaker 1: all put up with so much ship from the outside world,
Speaker 1: like if you're a member of this club, like you're
Speaker 1: gonna just you're gonna be in this club. So UM,
Speaker 1: I felt very good about that. And then when I
Speaker 1: met um, I you know, either I would show up
Speaker 1: to their hotel room where they would shove to mine
Speaker 1: or like you know in call oucohol would be the whatever.
Speaker 1: Um and the first thing that I would do if
Speaker 1: they were a new client in the check their I
Speaker 1: D so like so all of this stuff is all
Speaker 1: lines up at all, It all lines up, so they know.
Speaker 1: And then as soon as I had their idea in
Speaker 1: my hand, and I would take my cell phone out
Speaker 1: and I would call someone, either my best friend, my
Speaker 1: own voicemail, I would I'd call a random series of
Speaker 1: numbers either or another woman in the industry, and I'd say, hey, uh,
Speaker 1: you know this is so, this is my stage name.
Speaker 1: I'm here with John Dorrow. Uh, I'll call you in
Speaker 1: like about an hour, about two hours or whatever the
Speaker 1: or the the whatever the time of the appointment is,
Speaker 1: and then I'd hang up. So then they know that
Speaker 1: in front of some Yeah, in front of them, they
Speaker 1: know that somebody out there knows where I am, who
Speaker 1: I'm with, and what I'm expected to be there, and
Speaker 1: if they're not intended to do anything weird, they're totally
Speaker 1: cool with that. Yeah. Yeah, exactly do you have an orgasm?
Speaker 1: Did you have an orgasm every time? You didn't? I
Speaker 1: didn't have an orgasm until like three or four months ago.
Speaker 1: I had my first ever orgasm. So I was actually
Speaker 1: how many years of twelve years of no? I was like,
Speaker 1: I was an escort for a year and a half,
Speaker 1: but I've been I've been sexual for for twelve years.
Speaker 1: So you've basically been chasing an orgasm. A. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: it's been weird. What happened the first time that you
Speaker 1: came three months ago? Yeah? Wait wait wait wait, the
Speaker 1: first time you came with a client or the first
Speaker 1: time you came. I so I I did stop escorting.
Speaker 1: I haven't been escorting this whole time. Um no, I
Speaker 1: came with my with my current boyfriend that the first
Speaker 1: time ever? What the what's this magic trick? Let me do?
Speaker 1: Was there communication? Oh? If you don't want to? I mean,
Speaker 1: how did you even want to have sex without the
Speaker 1: organs that doesn't sing? Is funny? Imagine I was totally aroused.
Speaker 1: It's like eating hamburgers and then one day you eat
Speaker 1: a cheeseburger and you're like, how the fund did I
Speaker 1: miss this? Where? Yeah, I don't know. Did you masturb me? Um,
Speaker 1: that's a good question. So like I've had like a
Speaker 1: weird relationship with my body, but like yeah, yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: the answer is yes, obviously not not to orgasm. Did
Speaker 1: you purposely stop? I'm I'm podcasting. You know, I'm interested
Speaker 1: because when I mastured, I started messerating at a young, young,
Speaker 1: young young. I feel like I was like ten, but
Speaker 1: it was all like, wait, I think something's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: I think, oh, that happened. So then I was like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and then I was like, oh that happened. And then
Speaker 1: ever since then, I was like that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: For a while, it wasn't cool. It wasn't cool oriented
Speaker 1: Like I mean, I masturbated and it felt good. I
Speaker 1: definitely felt like aroused and like all of that. And
Speaker 1: it is possible to have sex and enjoy it without hap.
Speaker 1: Absolutely it is, but it's just yeah, but when I
Speaker 1: mean obviously the thing is it is, but I feel
Speaker 1: like it's like once you come, then after you know
Speaker 1: what that's like to have. So it's like you never
Speaker 1: knew all this time, then it's fine. But if I
Speaker 1: had known then no, Wow, was it clatorial or vaginal?
Speaker 1: There's multiple latoral Yeah, that's the fun kind that's been
Speaker 1: They're all fun. We're exploring. J bought stuff now, but
Speaker 1: you like shots where you like, whoa. I've been building
Speaker 1: up to it, like it was, um, you know, I
Speaker 1: bought a couple of books and uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: bought a sex toy, which one the purple one. It's
Speaker 1: like the Jeweli or something. Is it the white handle
Speaker 1: the kind you can submerge underwater and it's got this
Speaker 1: like magnetic yeah, the chargers magnetic yeah yeah, yeah, which
Speaker 1: I think it's super irritating. Actually, there's like a flaw
Speaker 1: in the fucking sex toy is that you can't just
Speaker 1: charge it and then put it in the box. You
Speaker 1: have to have it up. Yeah, like you can't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you get out and have it with the charger. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the worst. When you get a master with the charger.
Speaker 1: That's a spur of the moment thing, exactly. You can't
Speaker 1: want to help equipment anyway. Guy, line of sex, did
Speaker 1: you feel different after you had to orgasm? After? I
Speaker 1: mean yeah, I mean I've flooded with oxytocin and like
Speaker 1: all kinds of other stuff, I felt more deeply bonded
Speaker 1: to my partner. Absolutely, Yeah, it is a real bonding experience. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm an in committed anogamous relationship. Now. The other
Speaker 1: thing that I wanted to say before um I left
Speaker 1: here is that I've read a lot of studies. I'm
Speaker 1: very very interested in the sex industry generally, neat a
Speaker 1: lot and all of that. Um, even though I'm not
Speaker 1: in it anymore. But I one of the things that
Speaker 1: I hear is like women experience that it's like they
Speaker 1: it's like they're setting themselves up for violence. Like if
Speaker 1: you choose to be a sex worker, then you're probably
Speaker 1: going to be raped and beating. The only time I
Speaker 1: ever experienced any kind of sexual violence was within the
Speaker 1: context of a deeply committed, monogamous relationship with somebody that
Speaker 1: I loved very very much. And I never experienced any
Speaker 1: kind of like shaming or violence or like sexual I
Speaker 1: I never felt not in charge. But that's the thing
Speaker 1: I mean, I have thought to do with who you
Speaker 1: are and how you present yourself, though, because if you
Speaker 1: present yourself as someone who's in charge and got her
Speaker 1: stiff together, there's they're not gonna treat you like that.
Speaker 1: But I mean there's I mean, I was still different
Speaker 1: than the context of the abusive relationship. So that's that's
Speaker 1: completely different, because when you're in a relationship ship, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think all relationships are abusive in some way, honestly,
Speaker 1: and that's just how I feel like and a little
Speaker 1: bit I think just that very usually at least a
Speaker 1: little bit emotionally. I'm not saying every relationship has physical violence,
Speaker 1: certainly not. I think there's always a little something fucked
Speaker 1: up in any relationship where you've been together for a
Speaker 1: long time, just a little bit the whole. Because to me,
Speaker 1: the thing that a monogous relationship in the end of
Speaker 1: itself is a little strange the concept. It's a strange concept.
Speaker 1: I really think it is. And I think also being
Speaker 1: being a sex worker, I mean, like I I spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time in bed with men that felt, um,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of sexually abandoned by their wives. Um
Speaker 1: that we're in really complicated long term relationships, a lot
Speaker 1: of men that felt contempt for their wives, a lot
Speaker 1: of widows like people that. I mean, sex isn't isn't
Speaker 1: It's a deep human need. And I think, yeah, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of sexless marriages out there, and there's
Speaker 1: a lot of there's a lot of need out there,
Speaker 1: and I felt I felt really good about the services
Speaker 1: that I was providing. Yeah, that's why I feel that's
Speaker 1: really the sex industry needs to be like not a
Speaker 1: shameful place because I think it is a need. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But also if you think about it, men through their
Speaker 1: daily lives, they chase sex. Women can have it pretty
Speaker 1: much whenever, I mean someone's gonna want to suck them
Speaker 1: pretty much around the clock. It seems you can walk
Speaker 1: into a bar, a guy's gonna want to fuck you.
Speaker 1: If a guy walks into the bar, not the case
Speaker 1: at all, but they want they wanted just as much
Speaker 1: as us. So it's like it makes complete sense for
Speaker 1: a guy to seek out an escort or a prostitute.
Speaker 1: I would also say, like, I think it's actually a
Speaker 1: really safe way, as I mean, obviously if they're not
Speaker 1: abusive or anything, because his dick is so right. And
Speaker 1: also I mean, I would also say that I think
Speaker 1: it's better than starting and emotionally complicated affair outside of
Speaker 1: their relationships. Like if if if preserving your marriage is
Speaker 1: something that's important to you, and you're not getting your
Speaker 1: sexual needs met, and I think that then you know,
Speaker 1: like having to prostitute, we get the lesser of two
Speaker 1: evils here, I mean, And and like, marriages can go
Speaker 1: sexless for a lot of different reasons, and it can
Speaker 1: be medical, it can be emotional, it can be like whatever.
Speaker 1: And I think that we we we buy into a
Speaker 1: lot of myths in this culture. But I don't believe
Speaker 1: that sexual fidelity is the best measure of commitment. I agree,
Speaker 1: and I think that people need to respect people having
Speaker 1: sexual needs. The fact that the guy's a sexual need
Speaker 1: and he wants to hire an escort prostitute too, oh
Speaker 1: my god, sex with him, that's okay, Absolutely and I
Speaker 1: mean I would also it's freaking healthy, like it is
Speaker 1: how sex is so good for you, and like in
Speaker 1: like the way that we've you know, we shame people
Speaker 1: about it, we turn it into this dirty thing, but
Speaker 1: like having sex with another human being is so liberating.
Speaker 1: Like to watch these guys like come in to the
Speaker 1: tel room like feeling like weird and like and then leave,
Speaker 1: like standing straight up and like walking out. Connection. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I you know, I feel like I feel like
Speaker 1: I genuinely helped people and I felt really good about
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna I charge four hundred
Speaker 1: dollars an hour, you know, and I was deeply committed
Speaker 1: to like emotionally engaging making them feel good about them. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's not just human, it's it's exactly at all. It's
Speaker 1: a man who wants to it wants that connection. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I wish you would talk for five thousand more hours.
Speaker 1: I'd love to come back. Yeah, I want to have
Speaker 1: you back. So thank you so much for for coming
Speaker 1: on and telling us story, hearing your story. Thank you.
Speaker 1: It's very brave. Can I say that I really wanted
Speaker 1: to say that it was, but I I also think
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, when people say it's us, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm just being honest. Well, that's the thing I think.
Speaker 1: I think the fact that it's perceived as something brave
Speaker 1: like it is, but at the same time, which you
Speaker 1: should never not be brave in like just be brave
Speaker 1: and generally truthful, truthful and truthful like a Disney movie. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. I'm sorry. Thanks to everyone who wrote.
Speaker 1: And we did read every email and every comment, never
Speaker 1: packet of email, We really did. We read everything. We
Speaker 1: just had a lot of ship going on in our
Speaker 1: lives this week. Keep emailing us sorry about last night
Speaker 1: show at gmail dot com. You could tweet us it's
Speaker 1: s R y about last and y t uh and
Speaker 1: then yeah, facebook us everything. We love to hear from you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us, and we will
Speaker 1: see you next week or hear you or something. Bye, guys,
Speaker 1: Uncle's