Speaker 1: What up, fuckers. It's Christina Hutchinson and Karin Fisher. You
Speaker 1: are about to listen to a clip from Guys We Fucked,
Speaker 1: the anti slut shaming podcast. This week we have on
Speaker 1: guest stand up comedian Amy Cardinelli, and we talk a
Speaker 1: lot about mental health and we also laugh a lot.
Speaker 1: This is when you definitely want to check out the
Speaker 1: full episode four, and to do that, you can subscribe
Speaker 1: to the Luminary channel on Apple Podcasts by going to
Speaker 1: Apple dot ceo slash GWF. Again, that's Apple dot ceo
Speaker 1: slash g WF. Well, I'll just start with just Amy.
Speaker 1: You're talking a little bit about, yeah, about your mental
Speaker 1: illness and how how you kind of got diagnosed, and
Speaker 1: that just like start us a little bit at the
Speaker 1: beginning of when you started looking into this or maybe
Speaker 1: thinking something wasn't quote right. I don't know, it's we
Speaker 1: have to be so gentle with terminology person Italian. I'm
Speaker 1: already defected in my own mind. I'm an Italian, Drew.
Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't start off at the top. That's
Speaker 1: why we get along. I don't know, you were both
Speaker 1: as the same Ingredy. This is exciting. Very few pizza bagels, pizza. Um,
Speaker 1: I would say, it's like weird. I got misdiagnosed a bunch,
Speaker 1: So I was on like anxiety meds when I was
Speaker 1: like in elementary school and then I was like an
Speaker 1: hour old kid elementary school anxiety. Yeah, I know, Like
Speaker 1: what was I worried about? The sand box? Also, if
Speaker 1: a kid is worried about something, maybe I'll give her
Speaker 1: a pill and figure out what she's I think it
Speaker 1: was the nineties. I think everyone was big. I think
Speaker 1: it was the adderall nation. Like I remember sixth grade
Speaker 1: was when XR came out, which was like I didn't
Speaker 1: have to go to the nurse's office in the middle
Speaker 1: of the day anymore to get Yeah, it was totally fun.
Speaker 1: And then I got diagnosis by polar when I was
Speaker 1: like seventeen eighteen and was on heavy drugs. Like I
Speaker 1: switched over from my child psychiatrist to this crazy rich
Speaker 1: South African man in Great Neck, which is already a
Speaker 1: horrible district, and it's honey literally and he's I was like,
Speaker 1: do you work for lithium? And he would be like
Speaker 1: take it. So I went through a horrible relationship when
Speaker 1: I was twenty one and just I couldn't snap out
Speaker 1: of it like a romantic relationship. Yeah, I was just
Speaker 1: letting because when you feel bad, you let bad in,
Speaker 1: and I, yeah, I really feel that. So I think,
Speaker 1: like most recently just a fast forward on this fun
Speaker 1: journey um show for basically everybody. But I went in
Speaker 1: like a fugue state, which just means I had I
Speaker 1: have no memory. I'd say, from like April until fuck July,
Speaker 1: I stopped answering calls from my therapist. Did you feel
Speaker 1: like you were in a dream state? A dream is
Speaker 1: like it wasn't reality, but but meaning like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I've sometimes I've walked around and I'm like, I feel
Speaker 1: like this isn't here. What's the funk? It's like it's weird.
Speaker 1: It sounds like like it's like a coma toast. It
Speaker 1: was in a serious relationship in two thousand nineteen summer,
Speaker 1: and then quarantine happened and I sunk that ship. Like
Speaker 1: we moved in together about a month before quarantine. I
Speaker 1: would wake up crying because I had I was not well,
Speaker 1: and we wouldn't talk about it, like we were Mormons.
Speaker 1: We'd go on vacations. We would never talk about like
Speaker 1: the fact that I was breaking down. What did he
Speaker 1: do when you're crying? He would just go, well, I
Speaker 1: don't know what to do for you anymore. I don't
Speaker 1: know what to do. And it was just like it
Speaker 1: was just really heartbreaking because I was just like, you
Speaker 1: don't love me enough to help me. So it was
Speaker 1: like he just didn't know what to do anymore. He
Speaker 1: let me like light it on fire. So the week
Speaker 1: we went into quarantine, I moved in with you know,
Speaker 1: and then we don't really talk anymore but um romantic
Speaker 1: or no friends and then um, basically he just took
Speaker 1: the out because when I was having an episode, I
Speaker 1: said I can't do this and he grabbed that out
Speaker 1: and was like thank god and kind of nursed me
Speaker 1: like we were hooking up back and forth, and then
Speaker 1: I lost it. In June. I was like suicidal. I
Speaker 1: was like really unwell, and he dropped me off of
Speaker 1: my apartment with my things and was like, well, your
Speaker 1: life will be fine, You'll be okay, and I literally
Speaker 1: like could not pick myself up, like it was so bad,
Speaker 1: and I was like in bed all the time and
Speaker 1: I was just like really really fucked up. And then
Speaker 1: I said I need to go into treatment. Like maybe
Speaker 1: I need Impatient, maybe I need to hospital whatever, but
Speaker 1: I didn't. I ended up going to like almost Impatient.
Speaker 1: But I remember the realist moment of my life, which
Speaker 1: is like crazy as I called him, and I had
Speaker 1: a comic friend who was like, you have no like
Speaker 1: there's no more bullets in the chamber, like you just
Speaker 1: got to go for it and have this conversation because
Speaker 1: there's nothing left to talk about. And I was had
Speaker 1: this conversation. I said, I have borderline. I got diagnosed.
Speaker 1: I'm going into Impatient. Can you be by my side?
Speaker 1: And he said no, I can't. He's like I don't
Speaker 1: want to be. And I remember that being like he'll
Speaker 1: be like I'll be your biggest fear come true. It
Speaker 1: was when I when I got off the phone, it's
Speaker 1: like I just I like the worst like symptoms of
Speaker 1: borderline came out where it was like I was taking
Speaker 1: out of myself and I was just horrible. And he's like,
Speaker 1: he's like, you sounded so insane in the phone, and
Speaker 1: I was like you don't you have like no affect.
Speaker 1: It was like he's just like, well, you know, things happen,
Speaker 1: aim like that's life. And then I just went into
Speaker 1: treatment alone. But I went under this guy's that like
Speaker 1: I went into crazy treatment like this, like crazy where
Speaker 1: it's like you know when you're you're in these groups
Speaker 1: with I mean, I don't say unwell people, but people
Speaker 1: that can't hold jobs, that have your diagnosis that you're
Speaker 1: sitting and at first going to treatment, I just wanted
Speaker 1: to shake them and be like, hey, your morning, your
Speaker 1: relationship from ten years ago, they're married, it's time to go.
Speaker 1: And I remember having to learn like you can't tell
Speaker 1: people things. You just have to connect, even if it's
Speaker 1: at your worst point. You have to be like I
Speaker 1: was hur at one point, she's being ineffective. I have
Speaker 1: to just sit. And that is like you got to
Speaker 1: get off your high horse. The fuck uh. It's hard, yeah,
Speaker 1: to give somebody space because the Jew and Tellian you
Speaker 1: wanted to shake them and be like, honey, it's over.
Speaker 1: And I had to be like and then I had
Speaker 1: a joke and I be like, oh, I'm like on
Speaker 1: the same train as you, diagnostically, I have nothing right here.
Speaker 1: At this point, I was so low. But were you
Speaker 1: saying when you were saying honey, it's over, like and
Speaker 1: even if if it was in your head were you also,
Speaker 1: was there a part of you that was saying that
Speaker 1: to yourself too about that guy? Um? I think I
Speaker 1: was still in like that Fugu state where I was
Speaker 1: just But it's also like I think in life you
Speaker 1: learned that a lot of the behaviors that bother you
Speaker 1: are things you see in yourself, Like loud people don't
Speaker 1: like loud people? Why people don't like quiet people? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Personally so um, nothing. I went into Impatient to get
Speaker 1: this guy back. Wow, I was under this delusion I'm
Speaker 1: going to like eight hours a day of therapy and
Speaker 1: I'm under this like psychosis or all my I lost weight.
Speaker 1: All my friends were like, well, because yeah, because for Borderline,
Speaker 1: if you could because talk us through, because I I did.
Speaker 1: I've done a lot of research on Board, specifically because
Speaker 1: I had people in my life with it, and I
Speaker 1: have too. I just completed my crazy ex girlfriend this series,
Speaker 1: and that's character never knew that. I highly recommend it.
Speaker 1: It's but it's you know, fear of abandonment is at
Speaker 1: the core. Right. I was in denial, So it was
Speaker 1: like crazy because I went into treatment for it in
Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen and I was like, I don't have it,
Speaker 1: I went into DBT. So dialectual behavioral treat therapy was
Speaker 1: developed by this crazy smart woman named Marshall Lenahan, and
Speaker 1: she came out as having DBT like thirty years after
Speaker 1: she came out with this treatment, and she was institutionalized
Speaker 1: for six years when she was eighteen. And this is
Speaker 1: back in the day when they would like waterboard people
Speaker 1: Like she was just like burning herself. She was like
Speaker 1: very messed up, and she made this like religious vow
Speaker 1: to help people that went through what she went through.
Speaker 1: But what I found so insane was she came out
Speaker 1: much later in life at a huge conference at the
Speaker 1: same mental institution that she was at that was reconverted,
Speaker 1: was like, I have this disorder, That's why I'm so
Speaker 1: good at it. But I talked because I've been yours.
Speaker 1: But I guess long story short, I was in denial
Speaker 1: and my ex was like, you have it, and I
Speaker 1: would snap, borderline snap, where you have this anger because
Speaker 1: you can't regulate yourself. So I would become like Cruella.
Speaker 1: And it's hard is an outside. It's so hard to
Speaker 1: take that personally, But once you get it, you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're going through hell in there. Yeah, and I think
Speaker 1: like i'd say, like their cycle, the main cycle with
Speaker 1: borderline is like now I don't qualify, thank God, because
Speaker 1: I put like the work and a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't know that. Um, as you mature, the impulsivity dies
Speaker 1: down because as we get older, we get and proactive
Speaker 1: about changing it. I had to go through so many
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars of treatment, like it's astronomical, Like I
Speaker 1: would log onto zoom for eight months for three hours,
Speaker 1: five days a week to go to treatment and being
Speaker 1: it was so group therapy combination of group therapy and
Speaker 1: other tyler or is it all group therapy. It's all
Speaker 1: group therapy for DBT, because like research has proven that
Speaker 1: people with borderline like do best in group because there's
Speaker 1: that inner personal well and you could hear somebody else
Speaker 1: and you could recognize it in them. If you can't
Speaker 1: recognize it in yourself, you will be able to recognize
Speaker 1: it in the other. Yeah. And it's also like a
Speaker 1: main hallmark of the disorder is like shame, So like
Speaker 1: people don't know there's a difference beween guilt and shame.
Speaker 1: So guilt is like, okay, you stole from something, you
Speaker 1: stole from target which we've all gone and you still
Speaker 1: from Target, and that's societally bad. You're not a bad person,
Speaker 1: you're just shame is when you take it out on yourself,
Speaker 1: when you're like I still from Target, I am forever
Speaker 1: a bad person vp D shame. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And also I mean yeah, because I did a lot
Speaker 1: of research on guilt and shame when we were writing
Speaker 1: our book years ago. But I think and I think
Speaker 1: also like guilt like there's like a reason to feel it,
Speaker 1: and shame is like it's like kind of like you know,
Speaker 1: you made up the reason in your head a little
Speaker 1: bit more snap, like people in your life have screamed
Speaker 1: at you, they immediately feel shamed. Like I would describe
Speaker 1: borderline as like you're watching a movie and you're the director,
Speaker 1: but you can't yell caught. So you're watching your life
Speaker 1: light on fire, and what do you do? You get angry,
Speaker 1: you can't press the pause button. Who do you take
Speaker 1: it out on? The people closest to you? What do
Speaker 1: you do? Then you take it out on yourself, and
Speaker 1: then it's shames. So that's why people A lot of
Speaker 1: people have addiction issues, eating disorders, so there's a lot
Speaker 1: of fun stuff. You're like like hell, yeah, let's go
Speaker 1: for it. So but it's it's great that it can
Speaker 1: be something that could be altered and and made go away.
Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't know you can not diagnose as
Speaker 1: as as something anymore like once. So it's like once
Speaker 1: you are diagnosed with that, you don't necessarily always have it.
Speaker 1: So there's criteria. I mean that therapy is so like
Speaker 1: it's called skills, So you learn skills. There's four modules
Speaker 1: and you learn skills and you have homework. So I
Speaker 1: would have homework every day for therapy. They would go, Okay,
Speaker 1: you're going to use the fast skill, which is about
Speaker 1: keeping your respect in a social situation. So it's like
Speaker 1: fair apologize, Uh, interpersonal respect I can't remember, and it's
Speaker 1: like how do you say to someone I can't hang
Speaker 1: out because I have this to do, but I still
Speaker 1: love you. So you learn skills like you're a baby. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's it's but it's basic communication. Obviously, if you
Speaker 1: knew that, you wouldn't be yelling. I I know you
Speaker 1: wouldn't be and you wouldn't be in that group. But
Speaker 1: um yeah, So essentially I think there's nine qualifiers, which
Speaker 1: is what I was told when I was diagnosed, and
Speaker 1: you have to me five. I met eleven. And and
Speaker 1: then eventually you get to a point where it's like
Speaker 1: you're able to regulate yourself. Well, there you're not participating
Speaker 1: and taking it out on yourself, or you're not being impulsive,
Speaker 1: and you're just able to function. I think if that
Speaker 1: answers the question. But you can go back. So it's
Speaker 1: spurred by breakups or deaths, and that's when you get
Speaker 1: into that zone of just being completely ineffective. I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I have a fear of going back there. Right. Essentially,
Speaker 1: that's why I keep men at a distance because I'm like,
Speaker 1: you have the power me if I don't let you
Speaker 1: in to put me back and treatment. So I have
Speaker 1: this very weird oh yeah, that that's logical. But you
Speaker 1: know it's like you know when you quit smoking, for example,
Speaker 1: it's it's you know, you really could tell if you
Speaker 1: actually quit when something stressful happens and you don't smoke,
Speaker 1: Like that's the like, these testing moments are the the
Speaker 1: are the but also too with borderline, it's very rare
Speaker 1: to get treatment, like to to get treatment like that,
Speaker 1: it's like I'm like running support groups with this UM
Speaker 1: there's a there's a organization that was founded by people
Speaker 1: that are family members of people with borderline and basically
Speaker 1: it's this free service that runs online sport groups for
Speaker 1: people throughout the country and UM UM training right now,
Speaker 1: so it's accepted you need like two letters of reference
Speaker 1: where people live about how great you are and UM
Speaker 1: are like she's so stable, and then UM you basically
Speaker 1: engage and it's people what it's so interesting. There's such
Speaker 1: a disparity because there's people from rural areas, say they're
Speaker 1: from like Iowa, and there's two two things. A lot
Speaker 1: of these people are in disability. They don't have access
Speaker 1: to these specialized treatment because DBT is exponent and that's
Speaker 1: why I'm trying to give out Instagram stories with secrets
Speaker 1: and things I've learned, because it's like, I know, not
Speaker 1: everybody A has health insurance and not everyone B has
Speaker 1: the cash for at a network. So essentially these people
Speaker 1: are with these crazy accents in Georgia and they were
Speaker 1: like nobody knows what BP is. But it's very sick
Speaker 1: because you're just sitting there and you're like so privileged
Speaker 1: because basically the creator of UM DBT said in a video,
Speaker 1: do not tell doctors you have bb D. They will
Speaker 1: treat you differently. So I can't imagine being in like
Speaker 1: Georgia and they're like reality, Oh no, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Because the name was developed off of it
Speaker 1: was developed in late and it's basically they're trying to
Speaker 1: change it to pervasive emotional instability disorder, but it basically
Speaker 1: means the borderline of neuroses and psychosis. Yeah yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like I mean, like the name, it just lends itself
Speaker 1: to like this one's borderline crazy. I'm like, should I
Speaker 1: put it on my hinge? Should I just drop it?
Speaker 1: I gave great blow job spots I might yell at occasionally. God.
Speaker 1: Why is the treatment specifically so expensive? Um? Because I
Speaker 1: think it's very specialized, like you have to go to
Speaker 1: a lot of courses to be trained skills, and I
Speaker 1: think it's such a sensitive population that you need to
Speaker 1: know what you're giving out because the suicide rate is
Speaker 1: crazy high, So if you say the wrong thing and
Speaker 1: someone gets off the phone, it's like whoops, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and key because I'm always been highly functional where I'm
Speaker 1: like I have that in or utenant part of me
Speaker 1: where it's like, I will stay at work even though
Speaker 1: I am like very unwell, and you'll never know. And
Speaker 1: then I get home in three and I'm like time
Speaker 1: to cry. But so I look at these people that
Speaker 1: can't hold a job and I'm like, whoa nelly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think if I didn't have off from work
Speaker 1: when I lost my ship last summer, I would have
Speaker 1: been fired right right. There's yeah. I mean because the
Speaker 1: person that I knew with it was very close to
Speaker 1: me for most of my life, and then we stopped.
Speaker 1: We don't talk anymore. I can't imagine these things you
Speaker 1: went through. She saw her yesterday for the first time
Speaker 1: in over a year, and uh, she was. It was
Speaker 1: so lovely to see her, but you know, so much
Speaker 1: time had passed. I read a bunch of books. Walking
Speaker 1: on egg Shells was one of the books that I
Speaker 1: read Perfect Name, and a lot of books about Borderline,
Speaker 1: because I also identified some similarities between that and this
Speaker 1: person and my mother, and it's you know, one of
Speaker 1: the I had two takeaways with that, but one I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm curiously your opinion on one was that, oh, there's
Speaker 1: more suffering going on in here. It's not you know,
Speaker 1: they're not doing this to piss me off. Like I
Speaker 1: was a people pleaser. So if you're yelling at me,
Speaker 1: but I'm being a good friend, I will internalize that
Speaker 1: instead of going, you're scared right now and it's not.
Speaker 1: It's you're yelling at me when I'm not the problem.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna give you some space. Like that's a
Speaker 1: secure way to handle that. I was like, why would
Speaker 1: you mean? I mean, I'd be such a good friend.
Speaker 1: It was such an explosive French it was terrible. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's like when someone's really bad borderline,
Speaker 1: it's like they're speaking Mandarin and you're speaking English and
Speaker 1: you're like, really, I have no clue translator like the
Speaker 1: but but a lot of the advice given in Walking
Speaker 1: along egg Shells is like, you need to make the
Speaker 1: borderline feel secure, and you need to make them feel
Speaker 1: like it's not them even if they're yelling at you.
Speaker 1: You need and I'm like, I need to I need
Speaker 1: to find just talk to a man exactly the adjustments
Speaker 1: I make to talk to insecure man. That's the same thing.
Speaker 1: You're like, I eliminate big words. Fisher's guide to talking
Speaker 1: to Menu. Really that concludes our clip with our interview
Speaker 1: from Santa comedian Amy Carter, and Nelly. If you want
Speaker 1: to listen to the entire thing, head on over to
Speaker 1: Apple dot c O slash GWF. That's Apple dot c
Speaker 1: O slash GWF. Subscribe to the Luminary channel on Apple Podcasts.