Speaker 1: Welcome to Guys We Fucked. Guys We Guys Book. I'm Christina,
Speaker 1: I'm Karren. We're sorry about last night anti sluck shaming podcast.
Speaker 1: I never stopped. Hey fucker's Welcome to another episode of
Speaker 1: Guys We Fuck. It's the anti slut shaming podcast. I'm Karn.
Speaker 1: I'm Christina. We're in my living room and there's a
Speaker 1: person currently fucking right above me, above my apartment, and
Speaker 1: I'm it's it's either having sex on a bed because
Speaker 1: they're speaking. Yeah, there's definitely squeaking, but now I he're
Speaker 1: thumping my way. There's some I can hear that. Let
Speaker 1: me see if I can get the mic. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you can hear it. But good god, you've
Speaker 1: all heard springs before. You know what it sounds like. Well,
Speaker 1: one time she came down she came downstairs. That's how
Speaker 1: I know it's a girl, because I'm like, it could
Speaker 1: be a mini trampoline because she just goes and goes
Speaker 1: and go. Yeah, it seems a little swifter than I
Speaker 1: would prefer my slackt right, but then it goes or
Speaker 1: right and then but sometimes it goes or like not
Speaker 1: like a seal, but like a bed you're just changing
Speaker 1: the motion. So I get a knock at my door
Speaker 1: and it's this girl. She was asking something about I
Speaker 1: forget what. She's a building question and she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I live right above you. And I was like, read,
Speaker 1: oh wow. She shouldn't went to another apartment. I would
Speaker 1: never try to talk to people below me. I don't
Speaker 1: even want them to know that I exist. I know,
Speaker 1: but it was nice to know she was a girl.
Speaker 1: I don't know why um come to our shows. Yes.
Speaker 1: First off, thank you so much to everyone who came
Speaker 1: out to Columbus, Ohio. I know it was very hot.
Speaker 1: You guys were troopers. It was really really fun show.
Speaker 1: We'll definitely be back to Ohio. It comes to Nacho Bitches.
Speaker 1: It's Friday, June seventeenth at New York Comedy Club. The
Speaker 1: shows at eleven pm. I co host that with Blair Saki.
Speaker 1: Tickets or ten dollars with the code Nacho. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be a ship show as you use your wall. Our
Speaker 1: next guys, we fun Test Toward Date is mon Day,
Speaker 1: June doors at seven o'clock, shows at eight. It's at Subculture,
Speaker 1: which is forty five Bleaker Street dope venue with a
Speaker 1: bar right next to where you sit. It's all ages.
Speaker 1: But if you're sixth team, just come or under, just
Speaker 1: come with a parent and you have big good sego.
Speaker 1: And then on Saturday June in New York City is
Speaker 1: the one year anniversary of Glamour Pus. That is the
Speaker 1: show that I co host with Wendy Starling at Zinc Bar.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be at seven thirty and we have there's
Speaker 1: gonna be nudity, there's gonna be a lot of champagne,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna have an after party. So to ticket
Speaker 1: link for that is in the description of this podcast.
Speaker 1: You should come out. And then in July, Montreal, Canada,
Speaker 1: we are doing a live recording of Guys We Fucked
Speaker 1: at the prestigious Just for Last Festival. It's Saturday July
Speaker 1: at four thirty pm. Will make it feel like at
Speaker 1: least eight thirty though. Tickets are twenty two dollars and
Speaker 1: the link is in the description of this podcast. That's
Speaker 1: a fun comedy festival. You should check it out if
Speaker 1: you're in the Montreal area. Anyway. Yeah, how was your weekend?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it was good. It was really good.
Speaker 1: A lot of ship happened, a lot of ship that
Speaker 1: happened that I wanted to talk about. One was you
Speaker 1: would mention to me that article in the Huffington Post
Speaker 1: about these girls posing like Charlie's Angels and they're like,
Speaker 1: no one's getting raped on our watch. And when I
Speaker 1: saw that picture, I was like, what the funk is that?
Speaker 1: And then I read the story about they saw a
Speaker 1: guy putting something in a girl from a black, little
Speaker 1: black vial. When she went to the bathroom. He sprinkled
Speaker 1: something in her drink and then started playing with his phone.
Speaker 1: Nothing says, I'm I'm guilty more than doing something, and
Speaker 1: I'm immediately playing with your phone. That's a dead giveaway. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's because that's what I do. After I take a ship.
Speaker 1: I put my wh I played with my phone on
Speaker 1: the toilet. But I don't know that's that's the one
Speaker 1: time I go to my phone. No, I don't. But
Speaker 1: but I was walking past with Stephen in Brooklyn and
Speaker 1: we were in we went to go there's this laundromat
Speaker 1: and green Point that has a speakeasy pinball place, her
Speaker 1: favorite place ever. So we're going there. We're on our
Speaker 1: way back, going to the l like we do, trying
Speaker 1: to get back, you know, to a home, and I
Speaker 1: saw on the stoop. It was maybe about I don't know, midnight,
Speaker 1: and it was a Friday night and there was a
Speaker 1: girl laying on the stoop. It was it looked like
Speaker 1: a commercial place and the obviously the place was closed,
Speaker 1: and she was passed out, completely passed out. Her purse
Speaker 1: was in the corner. She had a really cute dress
Speaker 1: on and heels. So that's how I knew like it
Speaker 1: wasn't a homeless person if it was very well dressed.
Speaker 1: And I kept walking with Stephen, and I'm like, that
Speaker 1: wasn't right. That didn't feel right. I did that. I
Speaker 1: don't see that. I've never ever seen that. I've never
Speaker 1: seen alone. There was no one around. Well, I'm an
Speaker 1: asshole because anytime I see a girl like that like that,
Speaker 1: I've done something about it. If it's a guy, I'll
Speaker 1: just like the antil the end of time. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: it's stronger than women, and they could send for themselves.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I just don't think it one's going to go
Speaker 1: up and touch a passed out guy's dick. But I
Speaker 1: do think that's something that touched exactly girl. So that's
Speaker 1: why I do something, yeah, and yeah, someone's going to
Speaker 1: touch a pussy, you do something. Yeah, that's the rule.
Speaker 1: But we kept walking and I was like, I can't,
Speaker 1: I can't. We should go back, right, we should go
Speaker 1: back and make sure she's okay. And Steven was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. I've called nine one
Speaker 1: one on people in public like five times since Steven
Speaker 1: and I have been dating. I always intervene when someone's
Speaker 1: in trouble, and it's every time I've done it. I've
Speaker 1: never regretted it. And he was kind of making me.
Speaker 1: I was kind of feeling like, oh, maybe I shouldn't,
Speaker 1: but then I was like, no, you know what funk
Speaker 1: that ship? That girl is passed out, no one's around her,
Speaker 1: someone could take her purse, someone could sexually take advantage
Speaker 1: of her, Like we have to go back, and Steven's
Speaker 1: like okay, sure, And then I walked back and then
Speaker 1: there was all these girls crowded around trying to help
Speaker 1: her but so so but I'm glad I went back
Speaker 1: because if I went home and then I was like,
Speaker 1: what happened to that chick? Hope you didn't get raped?
Speaker 1: I would have hated my It's always okay, to call
Speaker 1: it on nine one one. They're not doing anything else anyway,
Speaker 1: I mean something. A lot of times they're not. I
Speaker 1: was in a basicle like bus jacking and they didn't
Speaker 1: do ship so like they're not that busy. Oh, they
Speaker 1: should be on a bus in New York, in New
Speaker 1: York City. They go, we can't do anything to I
Speaker 1: told pockets, Wait, I knew that. I didn't know you
Speaker 1: were in New York. They really, we can't do anything
Speaker 1: to the bus stops. I was like, well, that's what
Speaker 1: a bus jacking is. Speed mass is still moving. So
Speaker 1: I was like, you should also get in something moving
Speaker 1: and following. Yeah, how about we save some people because
Speaker 1: we're in trouble. I didn't realize you. I thought you
Speaker 1: were like on the on the highway. I don't know
Speaker 1: why I thought that. No, we were coming in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we were coming up like through the Bronx into New York.
Speaker 1: I was coming home from like a Rhode Island. I think,
Speaker 1: well that's different. Yeah. Well, anyway, the point of that
Speaker 1: story is like, if you see a person male or
Speaker 1: female passed out like that alone, just fucking make sure
Speaker 1: they're okay. Yeah, I mean I wouldn't touch something just
Speaker 1: call someone to do for you exactly. Yeah, yeah, you should,
Speaker 1: because you're never gonna regret it. It's never gonna be like, oh,
Speaker 1: there was too much help, but it's called police. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well you can also call like a local precinct. I
Speaker 1: feel like sometimes they're more helpful than just like randomly
Speaker 1: calling nine one one. Oh, yeah, that's probably true. Also,
Speaker 1: I went we went on a double date, Stephen and
Speaker 1: I a double date, a double date for potential four way.
Speaker 1: Oh I thought it was swinging, Okay, no, or I
Speaker 1: guess that's well, that's what I didn't know. What do
Speaker 1: you mean, like swapping her off, having sex together both?
Speaker 1: I don't know. We haven't got we didn't get there yet.
Speaker 1: It was so the most interesting part of that date
Speaker 1: was when Stephen looked out the window and pointed out
Speaker 1: the actor who played Hector on Breaking Bad. It was boring.
Speaker 1: It was the worst date ever. I was like, oh god,
Speaker 1: this is so what was the couple like stuck up?
Speaker 1: You know, Stephen stuck up multiply that time of that,
Speaker 1: I would say pretentious, not stuck tenious. Stuck up is
Speaker 1: like yeah, because like it was like they had like
Speaker 1: they had money. Well, the girl acted like she's never
Speaker 1: had sex in her life, which was she just had tired.
Speaker 1: She wanted to go to bed so bad, and we're like,
Speaker 1: why are you here, You're so tired. They were they
Speaker 1: cute young, They were cute, super cute young. We met
Speaker 1: at eight thirty and I was like, what day of
Speaker 1: the week, Saturday, Friday? This was right before before the
Speaker 1: pin That's why you're like, you had a full night bucket,
Speaker 1: let's just play pinball on the long I was wondering
Speaker 1: why you were doing that on a Friday night. I
Speaker 1: was like, you're still a young girl. Christ that's because
Speaker 1: fucking Sleep's McGhee took us out on a double date
Speaker 1: and it was was there was there was there possibly
Speaker 1: going to be sex that night? No, it wasn't. It
Speaker 1: was with Thrinder. What we do is we definitely want
Speaker 1: to always meet for drinks first because we couldn't want
Speaker 1: to bang that night. But I don't like the pressure
Speaker 1: of it. I like knowing that we're not going to
Speaker 1: So yeah, that girl was. She was the most tired
Speaker 1: girl I've ever met. She was so tired and she
Speaker 1: was really sweet and then the guy I hope she
Speaker 1: didn't listen to this podcast. I don't think they do.
Speaker 1: I don't think they do. I mean I'm not going
Speaker 1: to out them or say their name or anything, but
Speaker 1: I mean they know who they are. It wasn't bad.
Speaker 1: It was just like it just wasn't a match. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it wasn't a match, and that's totally fine. But it
Speaker 1: reminded me about, like I feel like I'm dating again.
Speaker 1: It's kind of fun with Steven. Yeah, nightmare for me. Great,
Speaker 1: just never trying at least dating amount of pass So
Speaker 1: many conversations happen talking about feelings. Oh man, will you
Speaker 1: talk about feelings on these first dates? I mean not
Speaker 1: so much feelings as much as hey, have you done
Speaker 1: this before? How many times? How did it go? Like
Speaker 1: you do? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? And then the next day
Speaker 1: we're like, well, funk this ship. We went to a
Speaker 1: nude beach. Oh where in New Jersey it's called I
Speaker 1: forget what it's called. There's only one. It's on this
Speaker 1: weird island. Well, I mean there's one in Sandy Hook.
Speaker 1: That's that's exactly where it was. Because I was I
Speaker 1: used to go to Sandy Hook a lot, so I
Speaker 1: was so excited. It was beautiful out. We drive all
Speaker 1: the way in this little peninsula to the end of
Speaker 1: the peninsula. That's when the nude There's several beaches there,
Speaker 1: and they hid that one. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah they do,
Speaker 1: which I'm like, okay, okay, And then I was like,
Speaker 1: is this going to be like a sexual thing or
Speaker 1: is it going to be like families. We get there,
Speaker 1: the first thing I see is a girl completely naked
Speaker 1: lying on her stomach. A guy completely naked sitting up
Speaker 1: fingering or I looked like he was fingering a butt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like just going back cameron her pussy. The opposite of
Speaker 1: what I've heard or like known about nude beaches. And
Speaker 1: there were children running around. I was like, this is
Speaker 1: a wacky they were they were Europeans, so it doesn't matter. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they don't totally work. No. American children are like yeah
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, and so many older my dad age like
Speaker 1: bigger belly, dad belly people did you don't want to see?
Speaker 1: Yeah at the nude beach. So we get there, we
Speaker 1: lay a blanket down. There were some hot people there too,
Speaker 1: like very hot, Oh my god, Like were they also European? No,
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's this this one couple they were
Speaker 1: this beautiful black couple and the guy had like a
Speaker 1: he was just he he was well dressed in that
Speaker 1: he didn't have any clothes on, but he had the
Speaker 1: best sunglasses and hat. And the girls just had like
Speaker 1: they just looked they were beautiful and stunning. And I
Speaker 1: just couldn't stop staring at the guy's dick. It was huge, whoa.
Speaker 1: And I was like, Steve, do you see that dick?
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, it's a nice dick. And I was
Speaker 1: like goddamn. And then we put our blanket down. I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm gonna get naked. This is crazy. And
Speaker 1: then a guy came over to us and just completely naked,
Speaker 1: like stood on our blanket and he was like, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: what's going on? I wonder what game? There's a bunch
Speaker 1: of like frat dudes completely naked, playing like some toss
Speaker 1: beach game right, And the guy was like, what do
Speaker 1: you think? What game you think they're playing? I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, can you go away? I want to
Speaker 1: get naked, but not when you're here? And uh, And
Speaker 1: that was that was really interested. It was just there's
Speaker 1: so many dicks, like older dicks, tiny, some of them
Speaker 1: even inverted looking. But I was like, you know what
Speaker 1: good for you? Be free? Even put Sundayn lotion on
Speaker 1: his dick. He didn't put it on his dick because
Speaker 1: he got completely naked. I didn't take my bottoms off
Speaker 1: because there was a creepy guy behind us, and I
Speaker 1: was like, I'll take my top off, baby steps, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go back. Really, I'm surprised that you took your
Speaker 1: top off and not your bottom off. Yeah, you're very
Speaker 1: protective of your boobs. Like I was gonna lay on
Speaker 1: my stomach, I'm like, what if they could seem like vagina? Right?
Speaker 1: That makes me feel weirder. Honestly, just having your vagina
Speaker 1: out and around sand is kind of dangerous idea, it is,
Speaker 1: and your dick gets sandy. I had to. I was
Speaker 1: so I was topless, lying stomach on my stomach, and
Speaker 1: then Steven's completely naked line of stomach he goes, oh,
Speaker 1: can you put some lotion on my butt? Like my
Speaker 1: ass is gonna get burn? Like yeah, I'm like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, that means I have to get off and
Speaker 1: people are gonna see my boobs. And I did it,
Speaker 1: and I and here I am today. Yeah, I live
Speaker 1: to tell the tale. Yeah, I was totally fine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna go back and go full nude. Now,
Speaker 1: there were these two chicks. They painted their butts, they
Speaker 1: painted like hearts on their butts and little they painted
Speaker 1: pasties over their nipples and they just frolicking about like
Speaker 1: little fairies. It was awesome. It was there's so much
Speaker 1: freedom that I witnessed. There is. I know, it's unfortunately
Speaker 1: that there can't be a look space to nude beach,
Speaker 1: because I'd go into that for sure. That's true me
Speaker 1: too old people get scared me though, Um yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I was gonna say with or without clothes on me.
Speaker 1: That's true though for me because I'm like, that's what
Speaker 1: your Dick's gonna look like later, Stephen, Like, that's what
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know Dick's age, everything ages believing. I've
Speaker 1: seen more naked bodies of every age from working out
Speaker 1: the spot than I ever cared to male bodies too, well,
Speaker 1: not nude male bodies, but I mean it's just a
Speaker 1: horror show every time I walk into the locker room
Speaker 1: and I get so scared. I got completely naked in
Speaker 1: that locker room. Oh I've been I mean I worked
Speaker 1: there and I've been completely nagain many a time, so proud,
Speaker 1: which is weird because I feel like sometimes people who
Speaker 1: I checked in definitely just see me then come in
Speaker 1: and get asked naked. But why is the reception is
Speaker 1: following me? Well, I feel like they're like, why is
Speaker 1: this peasant in here with us? And I'm like please?
Speaker 1: When I went there was all these girls with the
Speaker 1: yoga maths. Did they teach yoga? No, that's for the
Speaker 1: salt room. The s room. Oh that's okay, I guess
Speaker 1: that makes sense. So that was my weekend perfect. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that sounds good, fun, it sounds relaxing. Yeah, I know
Speaker 1: my boobs. I can't believe it. I'm really I'm really
Speaker 1: blossoming into a full grown woman. You guys are witnessing this.
Speaker 1: It's exciting. Um, what else is happening? Okay? So I
Speaker 1: guess we're gonna do an ad now? Is that what
Speaker 1: we're doing? As now? Yes, this is the time when
Speaker 1: we do ads. Uh. This a week's episode of Guys
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Speaker 1: parents excited. My parents are gonna do because my mom
Speaker 1: was worried because she has shaky hands, she's tremors. She's like,
Speaker 1: I don't think I could cut the ingredients. I'm like,
Speaker 1: just have dad cutting. Dad can do the cutting and
Speaker 1: my mom can do the either stuff. Assuming, guys, we
Speaker 1: have some more brawlers to think. These are people who
Speaker 1: donated eighty eight dollars or more to our generosity campaign.
Speaker 1: I don't know what this EP king, EP king someone
Speaker 1: you're a king, you have the last named king. You
Speaker 1: don't need eighty eight dollars or more and we care.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Jeremy Oliphant, thank you for giving us some
Speaker 1: of your money. I really appreciate it. Jessica Carra, you
Speaker 1: have a special last name. I can't really talk about
Speaker 1: it on there, but I appreciate it. Thank Andrew Jacobs.
Speaker 1: I feel like he had hazed in a frat one day.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but thanks for donating to us. A
Speaker 1: lista lad, I want to say you're us name with
Speaker 1: some kind of a brogue. James O'Neill. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: do an Irish accent. It didn't really work out so well,
Speaker 1: but thank you so much for donating to us. Pauline Serrano.
Speaker 1: You in my mind you're wearing lever print stretch pants
Speaker 1: right now. Hannah Clecker, get your finger out of my ass.
Speaker 1: Christopher Davis does your wife? No, you're listening to this?
Speaker 1: Zoe jim Motes? Are you Christopher Davis's wife? I didn't
Speaker 1: take his name. You see what I did there? You
Speaker 1: see what I did? Oh my goodness. So this weekend
Speaker 1: when I was in Columbus, I met a lot of
Speaker 1: interesting people. It's a great town. I was like, this
Speaker 1: is a plate. I rarely go to a city and
Speaker 1: go I could live in this city. And I felt
Speaker 1: that way about Columbus night. I mean, there's very few
Speaker 1: places I mean about it as you like the most.
Speaker 1: It was just it had it was progressive. It's I learned.
Speaker 1: It's one of the most gay friendly towns in the
Speaker 1: United States after San Francisco. Yeah, they had all these
Speaker 1: gay pride stonewall signs up. Oh sick. They have a
Speaker 1: great sex store, their shout out to Wonder Dog at
Speaker 1: the Garden Wonder. Yeah, we went. I spent a good
Speaker 1: amount of money there. It was fun and uh yeah,
Speaker 1: I would totally live there. And there's a really great mall,
Speaker 1: just beautiful comedy club, like just great great stuff going
Speaker 1: on there. Um. And I did meet the young lady
Speaker 1: who runs the Guys We Fucked Wisdom Instagram. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you guys remember that, it's GWF Wisdom on Instagram.
Speaker 1: And she would make memes, uh, with awesome quotes from
Speaker 1: episodes every week and then it kind of fell off
Speaker 1: and some of them were like, oh my god. One
Speaker 1: of us said that were really funny. Yeah, they're so
Speaker 1: fun and it was fun to look at and I
Speaker 1: know what people enjoyed following it, she just got too busy.
Speaker 1: So she wanted me to let you guys know that
Speaker 1: she is willing um to pass on the torch if
Speaker 1: anyone is interested. And this is someone who like you know,
Speaker 1: this is a little bit of a time commitment. Every week,
Speaker 1: you would just pull a couple of quotes and make
Speaker 1: it memes. So someone who's good with graphic design or
Speaker 1: just has some kind of an artistic background or feels
Speaker 1: that they can do that, that's who we're looking for.
Speaker 1: And you would be in charge of the guys we
Speaker 1: fund Wisdom count me. It's not you're not getting paid,
Speaker 1: but it's just you know, it's a pat on your back.
Speaker 1: You can use it in your on your resume whatever.
Speaker 1: Follow us. It's got some follow us. Yeah, it has
Speaker 1: some followers, and people can follow it now at g
Speaker 1: w F Wisdom. So just email at us as sorry
Speaker 1: about last night's show at gmail dot com, or you
Speaker 1: can email um, I believe it's Megan directly at GWF
Speaker 1: Wisdom at gmail dot com and she will pass it.
Speaker 1: But just only serious inquiries, only people you gotta be yeah, okay. Oh. Also,
Speaker 1: one thing I've wanted to say to the music. I
Speaker 1: We've said this a couple of times. The music that
Speaker 1: you're hearing now on these episodes, probably pretty much since
Speaker 1: the Ambrose episode is all created by people who listen
Speaker 1: to this podcast and a lot of people tweet us
Speaker 1: saying like who did the song this week? Or We
Speaker 1: always put the artists and a link to there where
Speaker 1: you can find their music on the in the description
Speaker 1: of this podcast, so scroll down if you're curious. Also,
Speaker 1: if you are a musician and you make music, send
Speaker 1: it to m GWF podcast Music at gmail dot com. Stephen,
Speaker 1: my boyfriend, runs that account, and uh he picks the
Speaker 1: music for all the episodes. But holy sh it, we
Speaker 1: have some talented people listening, so if you want to submit,
Speaker 1: do that. If you want to find more about the artists,
Speaker 1: scroll down on the description. I will also rate us
Speaker 1: on iTunes stompishes, I mean what um okay, let's read
Speaker 1: an email. Uh. The email of the subject for this
Speaker 1: one is messaging women on social media, y'all thoughts. Hey,
Speaker 1: Karen and Christina. My name is Ben. I am a
Speaker 1: recent new listener. Have become hooked on your podcast. Hearing
Speaker 1: about all the people who write in emails to YouTube
Speaker 1: over the podcast and advice you give is very real.
Speaker 1: And I think he means informational because he said informal,
Speaker 1: but that's not what it is. I had informal. I
Speaker 1: had to ask what are your all thoughts on messaging
Speaker 1: women over social media's such as Instagram. I only ask
Speaker 1: because there is this gorgeous woman that I have seen
Speaker 1: who's an old college classmate or was on old college
Speaker 1: classmates feed and I had to follow her, which was private.
Speaker 1: She did allow me and followed me back. But I
Speaker 1: would like to meet this woman for a drink or coffee.
Speaker 1: I had asked some of my closest friends what they
Speaker 1: thought of it. They said, just fuck it, just do it,
Speaker 1: but I kind of wanted it more in depth. Do
Speaker 1: it and women's perspective on the subject. Also would be
Speaker 1: pretty awesome to have the blessings from you too, because
Speaker 1: y'all some badass bitches. Okay. The reason I chose to
Speaker 1: read this email was because I think this is a
Speaker 1: common question that a lot of especially young dudes have
Speaker 1: who are on social media. You're on Facebook, you're on Instagram,
Speaker 1: you're on Twitter. You see a hot girl. And this
Speaker 1: is very interesting for this week's guest because we'll actually
Speaker 1: learn how he met his girlfriend and do with that
Speaker 1: tyn it together, which I did it on purpose. Can't
Speaker 1: say I did um, but uh yeah, that's super common
Speaker 1: and I know I'm sure you've been messaged on social
Speaker 1: media with like something you know, seletious dish, I have,
Speaker 1: you know what, I haven't got a lot of saltious messages.
Speaker 1: I just don't think my face really calls for it really,
Speaker 1: which is kind of a bum like not a bummer,
Speaker 1: but just like okay, because I know a lot of
Speaker 1: women get dicks or get like aggressive ship right message
Speaker 1: to that. I've never just been sent to dick pick
Speaker 1: from someone I didn't know. I mean this from this podcast.
Speaker 1: People will instagram it to me, but I don't even
Speaker 1: count that because that's not real life. I'm just like,
Speaker 1: thanks Yanks, that's the nice thing you got there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I feel like it's it's very hard because so
Speaker 1: often someone will hit you up on social media, like
Speaker 1: on a Facebook message, and then the girl will become
Speaker 1: outrage screenshot it's bullshit. Yeah. Yeah, It's like if no
Speaker 1: one's saying something, if you're not, if you're approaching someone
Speaker 1: in a respectful manner, they should treat you respectfully absolutely,
Speaker 1: and if they don't, if they freak out like this
Speaker 1: guy fucking message me, then you don't want to date
Speaker 1: that girl. That's weird and rude. That's on that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's and the hottest thing a guy could do is
Speaker 1: be fucking respectful. So that's the one instance why I
Speaker 1: wouldn't mind a message, right, And I mean it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, in the stand age is like a lot
Speaker 1: of people do met each other on social media because
Speaker 1: it's like it's not really much different than an app
Speaker 1: or Tinder where you're just looking at someone's face. But
Speaker 1: it's like on Instagram, we also have a lot of
Speaker 1: people who are putting up you know, kind of like
Speaker 1: thirst trap pictures and Instagram models too. They don't just
Speaker 1: like just sexy pictures and me they don't look like
Speaker 1: that or just they're just trying to get followers, you know,
Speaker 1: like like fake Instagram, Facebook accounts stuff like that. Um So,
Speaker 1: I mean I think if you truly feel some kind
Speaker 1: of connection with this woman, you can absolutely send her
Speaker 1: a respectful message. Instagram messages, I will say, are kind
Speaker 1: of like the least I pay attention to those the least. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I'm like, who's message. It's for photos, guys, that's
Speaker 1: on Facebook, So find her on Facebook or something. But
Speaker 1: just know that I'm sure if she is as gorgeous
Speaker 1: as you say that, a lot of people are probably
Speaker 1: on her and she's going to be looking for something
Speaker 1: more than just compliments on her. Looks like you're gonna
Speaker 1: have to get to know this person and really impress her.
Speaker 1: Challenge for you, pussy, Yeah, I think most women respond
Speaker 1: to effort. Yes, you're absolutely right. I did want to
Speaker 1: talk to you about one more thing before, and it
Speaker 1: kind of has to do with this, since this reminded
Speaker 1: me man splaining. Yes, what does that word mean to you? Um?
Speaker 1: It means when like men interpret things in a way
Speaker 1: to women where they think we're too dumb to understand,
Speaker 1: like something that we either coined ourselves or like a
Speaker 1: woman's issue primarily, like if a man's planning would be
Speaker 1: something like well, listen, like I don't know if you
Speaker 1: know this, but like this is like what feminism really.
Speaker 1: It's like someone telling Marsha Belski, one of our guests
Speaker 1: a couple episodes ago, like how to do her feminist blog,
Speaker 1: like a guy saying that okay, because that's to me,
Speaker 1: that's what it is too. And it's not like there's
Speaker 1: so many word like man spreading, for example, we talked
Speaker 1: about that. I think that's so silly to get on
Speaker 1: a guy's ass about spreading his legs on the subway,
Speaker 1: like have like sitting wide just fucking ask him to
Speaker 1: move his leg I mean. Also, that's not called man,
Speaker 1: that's called common herd to see, And I mean I
Speaker 1: see a lot of women who put their feet on
Speaker 1: the seats and put the seat next to them. I
Speaker 1: mean I think, yeah, I think that was taking out
Speaker 1: of proportion because like, honestly, I think men are just
Speaker 1: used to sting with their legs open because their dick
Speaker 1: is sticking to their thighs. Yeah. I know, I sit
Speaker 1: with my legs open a lot. It's probably because I
Speaker 1: have a big as vagina. Yeah, like that's a thing
Speaker 1: that I see. I will see women like get on
Speaker 1: dudes for like really just be like, I can't believe
Speaker 1: these dudes be man spread. I'm like, who gives a ship?
Speaker 1: And if you're that bothered by and be like, hey,
Speaker 1: can you move because that's what I do, And they
Speaker 1: always say, oh, yeah, sorry, Well it's just it's so
Speaker 1: not a thing that you should It takes the spotlight
Speaker 1: away from the real issues. And it also makes I
Speaker 1: feel like it makes women seem like we'll make a
Speaker 1: big deal out of everything and it's just not it's
Speaker 1: a counterproductive And now there's like even signs about it
Speaker 1: on the subway where they use the term spreading, like
Speaker 1: don't the man to flame, and it's just who cares,
Speaker 1: Like ask the guy to move over if you want to.
Speaker 1: Don't put something in someone's drink when they're in the bathroom.
Speaker 1: Let's start with that. How about all write me please,
Speaker 1: that's a good place start. But man, man splaining is
Speaker 1: a term though, that is to me really fucking frustrating.
Speaker 1: It's not the biggest deal in the world. It's not
Speaker 1: something that like makes me angry. But it's just a
Speaker 1: little tiny thing that I don't know, it gets to me.
Speaker 1: So I saw sometimes I'll go on Amy Schumer or
Speaker 1: Lena Dunham's Instagram and read the comments. Now I don't
Speaker 1: respond to them or anything. I'm just curious because I
Speaker 1: know these are two women that are very famous that
Speaker 1: don't aren't size zeros, and they get a lot of
Speaker 1: ship for it. I'm just interested in seeing what the
Speaker 1: strangers of the Internet have to say. So, wait, what
Speaker 1: absays you the word man's plaining or the act of
Speaker 1: man's plaining, Well, the act the actual I mean the word. Okay,
Speaker 1: care about the word, but this is an example. What
Speaker 1: I thought in An example of this was this guy
Speaker 1: comments on a picture of Amy Schumer. She's like in
Speaker 1: a bathing suit out a boat, and you can get
Speaker 1: this comments public so you can um, he goes, here's
Speaker 1: my thing Schumer, like you'll ever read this were We
Speaker 1: all think you're funny, You're a comedian and mission accomplished,
Speaker 1: but you keep posting what most would think unflattering photos
Speaker 1: of yourself. Then get piste when trolls call you shitty things.
Speaker 1: I'm pale as fuck have been my whole life. If
Speaker 1: I want to feel worse about myself, I'll post a
Speaker 1: pic of me with my shirt off because people are
Speaker 1: cunts and will being fun of me. What I'm trying
Speaker 1: to say is we love you, but stop trying to
Speaker 1: either fish for compliments or push the barrier where you're
Speaker 1: asking for trouble and then getting offended by it. That
Speaker 1: to me is an example of man splaining. But then
Speaker 1: I posted it and then people are like, really, you're
Speaker 1: seriously you think that's like a mean of that guy
Speaker 1: to say, I'm like, yeah, because women don't post photos
Speaker 1: themselves on social media, so that guys will be like
Speaker 1: let them know whether or not they want to fuck them,
Speaker 1: Like it's that number one, and then number two he's saying, like,
Speaker 1: stop getting offended by all these people making comments on
Speaker 1: your body. She's not getting offended. It seems like she's
Speaker 1: just really sick and tired of the way women get
Speaker 1: treated and how men barely get ship compared to the
Speaker 1: level of women getting shipped for their physical appearance. Well,
Speaker 1: Instagram is a nightmare and everyone here, most everyone, All
Speaker 1: the comments are dumb. Yeah. Well the guy, the guy
Speaker 1: who wrote that comment had I didn't tag him or anything,
Speaker 1: but he saw it and he like kind of explained himself.
Speaker 1: He's like, well, this is where I was coming from,
Speaker 1: and I didn't mean it as an insult and blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. And I'm like, that was nice that we
Speaker 1: could have that fucking conversation about that. I mean, the
Speaker 1: bottom lines that we just don't want your opinion, Like
Speaker 1: I feel like you just get your own Instagram. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean anyone who leaves comments on the celebrities Instagram,
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't want to do that. But then
Speaker 1: sometimes they read them, but a lot of times they don't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're just I just feel like it's like just post
Speaker 1: secret for for fans and stuff where they just need
Speaker 1: to kind of like unload their opinion just to get
Speaker 1: it out into the universe and then they feel better. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I would advise anyone in the public line not
Speaker 1: Tory Instagram comments because it's just going to make you
Speaker 1: want to punch people. But what I thought was really
Speaker 1: interesting was a lot of the guys were commenting on
Speaker 1: the picture of that comment that I put up, and
Speaker 1: they were like, do you really I'm not trying to
Speaker 1: be an asshole, but is that What do you think
Speaker 1: is rude about that? And they were genuinely curious. They
Speaker 1: weren't being dickheads. It's just like know and asked you
Speaker 1: right exactly. But I think I'm like a lot of dudes.
Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of dudes get when they
Speaker 1: do that, when they do that thing that we like
Speaker 1: to call man splaining, I don't think they know they're
Speaker 1: doing it right. So I'm just trying to open a
Speaker 1: dialogue so that we can start talking. I mean, women
Speaker 1: also give their opinion a lot when we didn't ask
Speaker 1: that stop. And it's also and it's funny because I
Speaker 1: think that women will be the first people to say, like,
Speaker 1: don't judge me on their looks, and then turn around
Speaker 1: and be the first person and the judge and judge
Speaker 1: the looks. And I'm certainly guilty of it too and
Speaker 1: trying to be more cognizant of it and stuff. But yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: because we're so trained and even like when I you
Speaker 1: see like a girl or something, or like you're making
Speaker 1: small conversation with like a cashier or something, and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I like your dress or just like it's just like
Speaker 1: kind of like these throwaway things that we say, and
Speaker 1: we like compliment each other based on like what we're
Speaker 1: wearing or what we look like or what makeup we're wearing,
Speaker 1: and when I would just never do that for to
Speaker 1: a guy. Yeah, so it's kind of justice. I bet
Speaker 1: that you're gonna nice safer in those pants. Yeah, anybody
Speaker 1: called it dick. I'm sure in the history someone has Well,
Speaker 1: after they go to a new beach, they'll realize that
Speaker 1: you think that big. All right, let's get to this
Speaker 1: week's guest guys. Um. He is a very interesting fellow
Speaker 1: and I was introduced to him because he directed a
Speaker 1: play that my roommate Kristen, who was on the podcast,
Speaker 1: is currently in It's at the Flea theater company called
Speaker 1: Wolf in the River. If you want to see her naked,
Speaker 1: you could go, I'm sure broadcast. She's so pretty. Um
Speaker 1: not that that mad is. That doesn't even matter. I
Speaker 1: don't know why I commented on a prettiness. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: It's just oh, it's just it's very I like this.
Speaker 1: The like the play a lot. I went to see
Speaker 1: what James and it was very just unique and open
Speaker 1: and boundary pushing, and I highly recommend it. Uh. He
Speaker 1: wrote and directed this play, but he's also written a
Speaker 1: bunch of other plays. He's worked on television shows. He
Speaker 1: has a brother who you might know from the Broadway scene.
Speaker 1: He's just a very interesting person and I was like,
Speaker 1: whoever wrote this play? Kristen, I was like, please, I
Speaker 1: need to know who this is and I need to
Speaker 1: speak to him. And so she was nice enough to
Speaker 1: connect us and Christine and I went over to his
Speaker 1: beautiful apartments on Lori's side. So ladies and gentlemen, please
Speaker 1: welcome this week's Yes Mr Adam Rap come lord, we
Speaker 1: baby from the Maid I You su Me I was
Speaker 1: so big with folly. My mind was listen me, how
Speaker 1: are you today? It's good, solid start everyone. We're really
Speaker 1: doing it, you we we are definitely in an artist's apartment.
Speaker 1: This is like the apartment that I've always dreamt of
Speaker 1: with beautiful artwork and taxidermy. It's weird. Yeah, it is weird.
Speaker 1: Like it? What I like it? I like that it's weird.
Speaker 1: I like taxidermy and robots. What do you like about taxidermy?
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know exactly. It's not like a
Speaker 1: political thing or um a pet thing. It's more like
Speaker 1: I did. I wrote a play that there was some
Speaker 1: tax dermy in it, and then I had the company
Speaker 1: was so broke that I had to buy the tax jermy,
Speaker 1: and I just it grew on me and then and
Speaker 1: then I kept it nice. Did you have you read
Speaker 1: The Landlady? No, that's about taxidermy. If you like that,
Speaker 1: that's one of my favorites. As we're all doll okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: quite good. So I should read that. Yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: lot a lot of things. I should read a lot
Speaker 1: of tax The German talked about. Um, so let's start
Speaker 1: at the beginning. We're just talking and you are originally
Speaker 1: from Chicago. Yeah, yeah, I was born in Chicago, um,
Speaker 1: like a century ago, and then I moved to Juliet,
Speaker 1: Illinois when I was like five and grew up there.
Speaker 1: So Chicago Juliet. How is growing up? Oh? What was
Speaker 1: your childhood like? My childhood was like weird contained it
Speaker 1: was a weird I mean, we lived in a really
Speaker 1: rough area and my mom was a single mom raising
Speaker 1: three kids in on a nurse's salary. So that was
Speaker 1: not easy and that wasn't and out of trouble a lot.
Speaker 1: What kind of trouble did you get into? Just like
Speaker 1: shoplifting and breaking windows? And I got sent to reform
Speaker 1: school and I went to a military academy for high school.
Speaker 1: So I was not a good Yeah I was. I
Speaker 1: was like, I saw that you went to military school,
Speaker 1: and that's struck me as weird that you would do that.
Speaker 1: And then you played basketball and you also then you
Speaker 1: started writing place, So how did that transition from each
Speaker 1: thing to come about? Well, up until I think up
Speaker 1: until college, honestly, I was pretty much, uh like a
Speaker 1: one dimensional jock, you know. I just just was playing
Speaker 1: baseball and basketball and I ran track and I was
Speaker 1: I ran across country, and you know, that was really
Speaker 1: a big part of me. Just kept me out of
Speaker 1: trouble for the most part, and and it gave me
Speaker 1: something to do that I thought I was good at.
Speaker 1: And then when I got to college, I discovered writing
Speaker 1: kind of accidentally, and uh, I had to drop some
Speaker 1: credits because I was a pre med major and I
Speaker 1: couldn't I got to organic chim and that's sort of
Speaker 1: the least. That's the yeah, that's the backbreaker. Um. And
Speaker 1: so I had to drop two classes, I think, and
Speaker 1: then I had to pick up two classes to stay
Speaker 1: on the basketball team to keep my credit high enough.
Speaker 1: And so I wandered into this weird poetry elective that
Speaker 1: would just happened to be by the registrar's office when
Speaker 1: I was on the day that I was supposed to
Speaker 1: pick up new classes. That's literally happened to this one.
Speaker 1: And I just wandered in it just because there was
Speaker 1: some weird sitar music playing and I and I pop
Speaker 1: my head and the and the guy invited me in
Speaker 1: and and and I did an exercise with them, unlucky
Speaker 1: yellow legal pad and automatic writing exercise, and that was
Speaker 1: kind of what started it for me. Wow, so you
Speaker 1: really stumbled up. It was really an accident. And then
Speaker 1: and then I wasn't much of a reader much. I
Speaker 1: wasn't you know. Where I grew up, there was really
Speaker 1: no culture, even though Lionel Richie's from Juliet and Andy
Speaker 1: Dick is from Juliet and there's some really interesting people. Yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: there just wasn't any you know, there wasn't much too there.
Speaker 1: There wasn't a bookstore. There wasn't the movie houses were
Speaker 1: sort of your run of the mill cineplex, you knowing
Speaker 1: all the hits. Yeah, so Chicago was the closest thing
Speaker 1: to culture, and that seemed a million years away or
Speaker 1: a million miles away, should say, um, even though it
Speaker 1: was only forty five miles away or forty miles away.
Speaker 1: So I uh, I don't know. I just think I
Speaker 1: was if it was in me. I didn't know it
Speaker 1: was in me until that moment. So then I started,
Speaker 1: you know, writing a lot and reading a lot. And
Speaker 1: it's interesting because my little brother, who's an actor, was
Speaker 1: a writer back then. He's three and a half years
Speaker 1: younger than me, but he was this sort of genius
Speaker 1: prodigy and he was ahead of himself in school. Two
Speaker 1: years ahead himself. He went to a gifted school, so
Speaker 1: he was like reading really complicated things, and he was
Speaker 1: writing in a journal, and he was kind of already
Speaker 1: on the way to being an artist. His path was
Speaker 1: already that he already defined that for himself exactly. And
Speaker 1: I and I my initial things that I read were
Speaker 1: advised by him, which is so weird because now we're
Speaker 1: sort of we've flipped and I've become kind of the
Speaker 1: more of the reader writer, and now he's just an actor.
Speaker 1: He has musical theater and stuff like that, which is great.
Speaker 1: But um, I remember him as being this real bookworm nerd.
Speaker 1: You know he switched. Yeah, we kind of switched. He's
Speaker 1: still I mean, he's incredibly smart, but like he's he's
Speaker 1: not the nerd. Remember I remember, you know, was your
Speaker 1: mom supportive of YouTube being involved in the arts or
Speaker 1: did she? Yeah, she was really supportive of him. She
Speaker 1: was sort of a stage mom. He you know, for
Speaker 1: a while in the in the stereotypical negative context that
Speaker 1: I'm thinking like gypsy like now you can tell it
Speaker 1: likes living through child much more naive than that. She
Speaker 1: was just sort of it was her way that she
Speaker 1: was the oldest of thirteen in this huge Roman Catholic
Speaker 1: family or uh Scottish Irish Catholic. Um. So she it
Speaker 1: was a chance for her to just travel, you know,
Speaker 1: because he got like the Broadway, he got the King
Speaker 1: and I National Tour, and then he got another he
Speaker 1: was in another show, and then he got cast in
Speaker 1: a Broadway show when he was nine as an under study,
Speaker 1: and then he took over the role and the show
Speaker 1: never opened. But we lived in New York briefly, so
Speaker 1: she got a It was the first time she ever traveled,
Speaker 1: so it was it was a kind of awakening for her.
Speaker 1: And then she went back to her she became she
Speaker 1: was eventually a prison nurse, and in Juliet, which is
Speaker 1: famous for its prison, she was the head nurse there.
Speaker 1: So um, she woind up going back to juliett after
Speaker 1: Anthony kind of became an adult and I became an adult,
Speaker 1: and she's sort of That's how she spent the last
Speaker 1: years of her She she passed away in ninety seven,
Speaker 1: but she was the last twenty years of her life
Speaker 1: or so. We was back in Juliet, you know, working
Speaker 1: at the prison. Why why did you when you were younger,
Speaker 1: you said you were like throwing rocks and windows and
Speaker 1: chocolate day. What was that from? Was that just I
Speaker 1: think it was just from my environment, Like the kids
Speaker 1: I was hanging out with. Um, there was a lack
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't have a dad, so there was
Speaker 1: a lack of supervision sometimes because my mom was doing
Speaker 1: double shifts. It wasn't like we weren't going to support
Speaker 1: your family. Were like, we weren't going you know, we
Speaker 1: weren't doing terrible. I mean, those are bad things, but
Speaker 1: we weren't like a gang or anything like that. It
Speaker 1: was just it was just like stupid things we clip
Speaker 1: hold on humans off of cars and sell them stuff
Speaker 1: like that. I would do. I would take them. I
Speaker 1: would take two coke cans and then put them with
Speaker 1: string across one on one on the street and the
Speaker 1: other on the and when a car runs over it,
Speaker 1: they take the string like clips on the bottom of
Speaker 1: the car and they just they just dragged the coke
Speaker 1: cans down the street. And I thought I was the ship.
Speaker 1: You're a real rebel. Oh yeah, it was scary and
Speaker 1: dangerous and thrilling. Is that like a suburban thing? Maybe
Speaker 1: we were in the suburbs. That was the morning that
Speaker 1: was the whack at we got. That's dangerous? Is it out? Well,
Speaker 1: how do you I think it's a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't really understand the importance of a father, and I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I have a younger brother, and I know
Speaker 1: it's been very important for him to have a meal
Speaker 1: influence in his life. So how do you think that
Speaker 1: lack of presence of a male authority figure in your
Speaker 1: life had has affected you. I mean when I was
Speaker 1: a kid, I was I was always looking to other
Speaker 1: kids dad's you know, or I was looking to my coaches,
Speaker 1: and sometimes sometimes they were you know, they would help
Speaker 1: me out or they would give me a ride home.
Speaker 1: That was the hardest part, was like when you're when
Speaker 1: you're doing you know, baseball and basketball and across country,
Speaker 1: you have to have a ride home. That sucked when
Speaker 1: you don't have a ride home, because then you're walking,
Speaker 1: and then you're walking like three miles and you're eleven
Speaker 1: years old, and that's that's just not dangerous. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: I would always look for someone to give me a ride,
Speaker 1: and sometimes that would be a good thing, and sometimes
Speaker 1: it would be a weird thing. And so there was
Speaker 1: a lot of adventures with adults in that in that regard,
Speaker 1: but um, I had a couple of good um like
Speaker 1: coaches and teachers who kind of looked out for me.
Speaker 1: There was a guy named Noel Blazing Mr. Blazing back
Speaker 1: in junior high who always like would wait for me
Speaker 1: because he knew I would walk home, and then he
Speaker 1: would always like like pretend like we didn't have a
Speaker 1: ritual and he would pull up with his car and
Speaker 1: be like, come on, get in. It was really sweet,
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm always grateful to that. But I
Speaker 1: feel like there was some you know, just treacherous things too,
Speaker 1: where like creeps. Would you know I was. I think
Speaker 1: I was also sort of pedophile candy when I was
Speaker 1: a kid because I was walking home alone. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was like really much. No, I was just really young looking.
Speaker 1: I was like I was when I was a freshman
Speaker 1: in high school, was five five pounds and I was
Speaker 1: I didn't go through pauty till I was like, I
Speaker 1: mean not literally, but like that would be six. So
Speaker 1: I was just like, you know, it looked like I
Speaker 1: should be an et or something. For most did you
Speaker 1: have men like pedophiles try and kidnap you? Yeah? Wow,
Speaker 1: I mean not like not not successive attempts or anything
Speaker 1: like that. But that was great. But in our area
Speaker 1: there were a lot of creepy people, and um, it happened.
Speaker 1: I got I got into a couple of vans, I
Speaker 1: got into a couple of trucks, you know, and I
Speaker 1: didn't realize. You know, what did they say to you? Well,
Speaker 1: it's never it's it's always a friendly it's always a
Speaker 1: friendly moment, you know, because they want to they want
Speaker 1: you to hang out. So it's just it's like the
Speaker 1: third moment, the fourth moment that gets weird, and then
Speaker 1: they're like offering you wine. Like Boone's farm you know,
Speaker 1: was like seventies, so I mean it was I mean,
Speaker 1: it was pedophilia even being talked about at that time.
Speaker 1: I'm guessing it's barely being talked about now because we've thought,
Speaker 1: we've heard from we've interviewed guys. Dad's a pedophile and
Speaker 1: I just we don't know anything about that. And that's
Speaker 1: really it's I think it's hard to talk about two
Speaker 1: because it's, um, it's just too painful. Yeah, and with
Speaker 1: men to who have been um sexually assaulted by older
Speaker 1: men like that really takes away from their masculinity. And
Speaker 1: I've talked to guys that have gotten raped as children
Speaker 1: by older men in their in their life, and it's
Speaker 1: just it's just it's horrible, damaging. Did you know that
Speaker 1: these obviously you knew enough to leave them at one
Speaker 1: point when they when they started offering you wine or
Speaker 1: did your mom ever warn you of stranger danger? Well?
Speaker 1: There was. I will say this. The one thing that
Speaker 1: I think was that I had going for me was
Speaker 1: that I was I was a good athlete, so I
Speaker 1: could run away and get away. I was strong enough
Speaker 1: and like nimble enough to like get out of some cars.
Speaker 1: Wow close calls. Yeah, and it seems like a constant problem.
Speaker 1: I mean, seems like he got out of a lot
Speaker 1: of pedophiles cars. Well a couple, you know, But there
Speaker 1: was there was definitely that there was definitely like, um,
Speaker 1: there was there was one person in my life that
Speaker 1: was that this and you know, not to get overly serious,
Speaker 1: but there was a you know, big brothers, big sisters
Speaker 1: as a position. So I had a big brother. His
Speaker 1: name was Al and he was really good to my mom.
Speaker 1: He was really good to us. He would he's pretending
Speaker 1: to be romantically involved with my mom. She was sort
Speaker 1: of in love with him, and then he liked you know,
Speaker 1: tribe stuff. Yeah, and I'm I'm my uncle as well.
Speaker 1: He was only a few years older than me and
Speaker 1: and so it turned into this like rotisserie of boys
Speaker 1: that were and my brother was probably next, so like,
Speaker 1: but it was this long seduction where he was really trustworthy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I was hanging out with him a lot.
Speaker 1: I was going to his his his farmhouse and where
Speaker 1: he lived with his mother, which was weird. Um. And
Speaker 1: he was he was a really charming Vietnam Vet, like
Speaker 1: a really upstanding U. On paper, it was an awarded soldier,
Speaker 1: you know, a hero. Um. But like you know, one
Speaker 1: thing led to the other. I mean he nothing nothing, um,
Speaker 1: nothing horrible, horrific happened, but it almost did. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: again I was horrifying. I was lucky enough that I
Speaker 1: you know, I was across country runner so I could
Speaker 1: like run ran away, literally ran away from the pedifile,
Speaker 1: ran away and called my mom at a gas station.
Speaker 1: And that was that. But what did she believe you
Speaker 1: when knew that guy? Al It was hard because she
Speaker 1: was romantically interested in him, and so it was it
Speaker 1: was a really bad situation. I say, that's always the scenario,
Speaker 1: and that's how the person gets the power over the family,
Speaker 1: because once you're you know, in with the matriarch, then
Speaker 1: you have this power over everybody. That's insane though, because
Speaker 1: I was a big sister for Lonching. I mean, you
Speaker 1: have to get fingerprinted, like, that's not an easy job
Speaker 1: job to get I don't like thank for that volunteer work.
Speaker 1: And I think that again, that was back in the
Speaker 1: seventies and I feel like that that organization was pretty new,
Speaker 1: and I think now they know a lot more. And
Speaker 1: you know, I've thought about, you know, trying to help
Speaker 1: kids out because I you know, I played basketball and
Speaker 1: I know all these young kids and it seems like
Speaker 1: there's a lot of parentless kids, you know, for me
Speaker 1: to do, you know, and male role models. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I know it's a much more difficult system to be to.
Speaker 1: It's it's much more difficult to get involved. Yeah, when
Speaker 1: this was, when this had happened to you, all those
Speaker 1: times that menut approached you and you realize it was
Speaker 1: wrong and you got out of there, did you know
Speaker 1: what they were trying to do, they were trying to
Speaker 1: touch you sexually, or did you just know this is wrong.
Speaker 1: I gotta go. It felt it just felt wrong, you know,
Speaker 1: it just felt like there was never like they would
Speaker 1: never just put their hand on my dick or something
Speaker 1: like that, or go to kiss me, because that just
Speaker 1: seems weird. It's more like it felt like they always
Speaker 1: it was like they wanted to get me to sleep.
Speaker 1: They want you to They want to get you to sleep,
Speaker 1: and they want to get you well drugged or or
Speaker 1: they want because that's what they want. They want to
Speaker 1: they want to take advantage of you wear your pass
Speaker 1: while you're passed out, because then there's no there's no conflict.
Speaker 1: Did that shape how you saw the world? Definitely? Because
Speaker 1: I would fucking my boy boyfriend his when he was young,
Speaker 1: his dad got hit by a car and was in
Speaker 1: a real chair for the rest of his life, and
Speaker 1: he's like, that's when I stopped believing in God because
Speaker 1: why would that? Why would that happen? And that really
Speaker 1: shaped his his viewpoint, and he was he he argued
Speaker 1: horribly with his parents and got a lot of troubles
Speaker 1: at all. The drugs, but like at that moment really
Speaker 1: shaped him. But then he's it's turned him into this
Speaker 1: wonderful man because he's been through. You know, I think
Speaker 1: it's really for me. It's it took me a long
Speaker 1: time to trust, to trust older men, like yeah, not not.
Speaker 1: You know, when I was a younger, I mean through
Speaker 1: my teen years, I would say, and then when I
Speaker 1: kind of I kind of grew up fast. And then
Speaker 1: I when I got out of military school and I
Speaker 1: went to college, things were sort of I'd figured out
Speaker 1: who I was to a certain extent, and I didn't
Speaker 1: have as many of those issues. But I feel like
Speaker 1: when I was thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, like if anyone,
Speaker 1: if like anyone reached out to me, even if it
Speaker 1: was truly sincere and like friendly, I was always really dubious.
Speaker 1: I was always a little defensive and a little like,
Speaker 1: you know, keep keeping arms length, you know, including teachers, professors, coaches,
Speaker 1: you know that, because those are who you're supposed to trust,
Speaker 1: supposed to trust them. Yeah, but then the people you
Speaker 1: were supposed to trust failed you just let you down immensely, immensely. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was a tough. I mean, you know, also, those
Speaker 1: are good survival skills to learn to. Not I'm not
Speaker 1: wishing that on anyone, but it's good to understand at
Speaker 1: a young age that not everyone should be trusted. Oh. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I think they should teach that in schools because I
Speaker 1: don't feel like parents. The stranger danger conversation sometimes happens
Speaker 1: in households, but no one ever really talks about the
Speaker 1: capabilities of certain a few amounts of people and the
Speaker 1: more self where you are, you can recognize it. And
Speaker 1: you know, as I've also as I've gotten uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a director, and you know I work,
Speaker 1: I lead projects a lot, and right now I'm working
Speaker 1: with a girl who's playing a thirteen year old in
Speaker 1: my play, and I'm very hyper aware of of being
Speaker 1: respectful of like of you know, personal space. Very I
Speaker 1: think it's made me more aware of how you can
Speaker 1: yourselves around younger people, and probably to the point of, like,
Speaker 1: I probably come off like a science teacher or something like.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know, like I'd probably come off
Speaker 1: as chilly in a way, but I just don't ever
Speaker 1: want to make anybody feeling cool uncomfortable in that way
Speaker 1: and try to make it easy and fun and all
Speaker 1: that and your extra sense, Yeah, it makes sense that
Speaker 1: you're sensitive to that, so your sensitive during the process.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I saw a wolf in the river
Speaker 1: and that was certainly very sexually explicit, which was refreshing.
Speaker 1: It was refreshing to see male nudity on stage. Don't
Speaker 1: you never see penises? And we talked about that all
Speaker 1: the time. We were like, more penises, You always just
Speaker 1: see breasts and sometimes of a gina. So and I
Speaker 1: was talking to my room and she said, that's kind
Speaker 1: of a stagent in a lot of your work. She said,
Speaker 1: you had one piece where you have the longest scene
Speaker 1: of a man peeing on stage. Yeah, so how did
Speaker 1: that kind of come about? Was this your life that influenced?
Speaker 1: Are you just interested in sexuality or yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I'm interested in I'm also interested in how whenever I
Speaker 1: go to the theater, I'm more was confused as to
Speaker 1: why we don't see more private moments on stage, because
Speaker 1: I think we go to the theater to kind of
Speaker 1: have a collective understanding of like our humanity and like
Speaker 1: our foibles and what we're vulnerable about, what we're terrified
Speaker 1: of and all those things. And so one of those
Speaker 1: sometimes that's a sexual moment, or sometimes it's a you know,
Speaker 1: a bathroom moment, or it's a you know, it's something
Speaker 1: that happens in a bedroom or a closet. So I
Speaker 1: was always interested early in my career and like exploring
Speaker 1: that publicly on stage. I mean publicly. I mean you
Speaker 1: know that it's witnessed people audience, rive at moments in
Speaker 1: front of an audience. That's the most beautiful, electrifying thing
Speaker 1: about theater. That's why I love straight plays and going
Speaker 1: to them when they're done well whole. I mean, I
Speaker 1: saw a production of The Seagull with Ellen Cumming when
Speaker 1: my my acting professor, was assistant directing it, and I
Speaker 1: was just like fuck, it was so every moment was
Speaker 1: you could feel it. Yeah, and I've had some like
Speaker 1: simulated sex on stage and and I'm not and I've
Speaker 1: I'm not trained in any way. So when I would
Speaker 1: when I came to the theater, it was it was
Speaker 1: it was like I didn't have that thing of being trained,
Speaker 1: Like this is what fight call is, this is what
Speaker 1: a fight how how you construct a fight by the numbers?
Speaker 1: This is what sex is on stage. So I came
Speaker 1: at it from a very raw place and it was
Speaker 1: either false to me or true to me. And so
Speaker 1: I was when I would build those moments um I
Speaker 1: had a different way, a different lens on it. I
Speaker 1: think it well, it seems to be based off just
Speaker 1: your instinct of does this feel real and and vulnerable
Speaker 1: and in the moment. And I think I've gotten in
Speaker 1: trouble in the past because like when I did a
Speaker 1: play Red Light Winner and oh six oh five or
Speaker 1: six in New York and there was sex on stage,
Speaker 1: and like equity had to come down because they kept
Speaker 1: hearing there was real sex on stage, which there wasn't,
Speaker 1: but we built it so that it looked like it
Speaker 1: was real, to the point where penetration looked real and
Speaker 1: it was well, and there were like two or two
Speaker 1: there were two male erections on stage that would happen,
Speaker 1: and there was you know, there was two men and
Speaker 1: a girl and not not ever in that arrangement, but
Speaker 1: both men were with the same woman. And uh, we
Speaker 1: just really carefully, sort of slide of hand did it.
Speaker 1: And um tricked out a moment where he removes a
Speaker 1: condom after he's come and he holds it up to
Speaker 1: the window and there's like there's something in the condom,
Speaker 1: but it was just lotion that it was another condom
Speaker 1: tricked and he holds up to the window, and so
Speaker 1: everyone was hearing that there was like quote unquote real
Speaker 1: sex happening, and so then all of the equity came
Speaker 1: down and they they made me show him them by
Speaker 1: the numbers how we were doing it, and they were like, okay,
Speaker 1: but so I'm not I've never done it conventionally. UM,
Speaker 1: I will have. I do work with fight choreographers because
Speaker 1: I learned from them. Um, but I always find that, UM,
Speaker 1: if if it's not really rough and real looking, then
Speaker 1: I'll rough it up a bit after they go, um
Speaker 1: safely rough it up? Of course do they did? They
Speaker 1: actually have erections? Yeah? Yeah. Gary Wilms would have at
Speaker 1: the end of the play, he like he would he
Speaker 1: there was a consensual sexual act between him and this
Speaker 1: woman that turned into a rape, and the beginning of
Speaker 1: it he would pull his pants down and he would
Speaker 1: off and be erect. And then at the end of
Speaker 1: the first act, Chris Denham and this prostitute who he
Speaker 1: was sort of falling in love with, she would like
Speaker 1: touch him down his body. It was in silhouette, but
Speaker 1: they were in profile and you would see his his
Speaker 1: dick would go wow, and he got it. Every time
Speaker 1: you was able to I mean, I admire that. Damn
Speaker 1: that's control over your erections. Or they're just like really
Speaker 1: into it. Yeah, I don't know, but they was really convincing,
Speaker 1: and I think that was part of why, you know,
Speaker 1: people were seeing the play. But it's also part of
Speaker 1: part of why like equity was coming down to police it. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 1: in your personal life, do you feel like you are
Speaker 1: more or less sexually explicit than you are in your work? Uh?
Speaker 1: I think I'm I think I'm weirdly like I don't
Speaker 1: like to take my shirt off on the beach, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm around the house. I don't take I'm pretty, I'm
Speaker 1: actually pretty. Uh what's the word. I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: pretty demure. No, I'm not approved sexually kind of insane.
Speaker 1: I think I was going to say my boyfriend never
Speaker 1: takes a shirt off of the beach, he never wears sandals,
Speaker 1: but he's a freaking bed Yeah. I think that's that's
Speaker 1: I would say probably I would classify myself as being
Speaker 1: a weirdo in bed and being hyper, uh the appearance
Speaker 1: even in my own apartment with my girlfriend, of just
Speaker 1: being kind of a normal person. I have a theory that,
Speaker 1: like all playwrights, that I've meant. I feel like they're
Speaker 1: just very sexual people. But it's almost like it's something
Speaker 1: that they kind of keep to themselves, but they put
Speaker 1: it in their work, and then when they're by the
Speaker 1: time they're in the bedroom, they're like, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's for me. It's like by the time, it's not
Speaker 1: just the bedroom, it's like under the covers, right, But
Speaker 1: then it gets, it gets it's just the first and
Speaker 1: then the magic campus and hopefully things go, well, are
Speaker 1: you kinky? Yeah? What kind of what are your favorite?
Speaker 1: What are your some kinks that you like? I don't
Speaker 1: know artists are so kinky. I just I'll kind of
Speaker 1: do anything. I'm up for anything. Yeah, I mean, I'm not.
Speaker 1: It's weirdly, it's weirdly I'm not. I'm not into like
Speaker 1: multiple partners. I'm not into um, well, i'm not. I'm straight,
Speaker 1: So I'm not like into the idea of men. And
Speaker 1: have you ever just be based on you, have you
Speaker 1: ever experimented with men? Because I know a lot of
Speaker 1: people who have had, you know, poet, I haven't. I haven't. No,
Speaker 1: I haven't. Um, it's really strange. It's not I love
Speaker 1: you know, I love men and I have a lot
Speaker 1: of great friendships with like really interesting, awesome, beautiful men,
Speaker 1: but I just don't have an impulse. It's it's it's
Speaker 1: really strange, and I know some people do, and I
Speaker 1: know some people have acted on that, experimented and all that,
Speaker 1: and they thought it's not for me, or it is
Speaker 1: for me. It's it's the strangest thing. I've never liked.
Speaker 1: The idea of kissing a man has never been something
Speaker 1: that I've been interested in, And that's strange at all.
Speaker 1: I just think it's the perfect it's the perfect like
Speaker 1: the theater and film and you know, being a novelist
Speaker 1: and being around artists, the perfect place, the perfect form
Speaker 1: to be like frolic in that course. But that's not
Speaker 1: that's not what you like. I almost feel like you're
Speaker 1: so supportive of and people are just You're very forward thinking, intelligent,
Speaker 1: supportive of all kinds of gay community by community, and
Speaker 1: it's almost like I wish I was, but I'm just
Speaker 1: truly not Like that just doesn't do it for you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just a pretty boring, straight white guy with a
Speaker 1: lot of weird But then once you get under the covers,
Speaker 1: like a ninjat swords or taxidermy. I don't know, whatever
Speaker 1: you do. It's kind of like, um, yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: everything happens, you know, I mean, louis there a fecal
Speaker 1: model involved? Like? How how much have you gone? Because
Speaker 1: I've beat on people have gone I mean god, what
Speaker 1: what could I say? Blooded? Not not? There's no poop, blood,
Speaker 1: there's no blood. Well, no, I don't I used to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would like someone on their period doesn't bother me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's because you're a man. I probably won't like go
Speaker 1: down on someone on that period. Oh you shouldn't not
Speaker 1: because that's not that's just strange. That's like a yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe just sometimes it's fun to test a man's limits
Speaker 1: as maybe that's and you were like yeah, I was like, no, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not that's that's just she like what the fuck
Speaker 1: she was? I think she was in I think she
Speaker 1: was just really into it. And this is like when
Speaker 1: I was in my twenties. Um, but yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I can't. It's hard to say about all the things
Speaker 1: that I would do because you know, my girlfriend would
Speaker 1: hear this and she go, oh my god, I can't
Speaker 1: believe you said that. And but we're pretty we're pretty
Speaker 1: open cool. How long have you guys been together? Two
Speaker 1: and a half years? And does she live she's at
Speaker 1: work right now. She probably the two and a half
Speaker 1: years in sex is pretty good. That's good. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: really good. Yeah, we we we don't have a we
Speaker 1: don't have any like lack of adventure problem or anything
Speaker 1: like that. It's she's she's pretty cool. What's your what's
Speaker 1: your method when when finding a partner to like see
Speaker 1: if they will kind of go all the like go
Speaker 1: there with you? Do you do you talk about or
Speaker 1: do you just jump right in? Uh? What's my method? Oh?
Speaker 1: My god? It's always scary for me because I'm I'm
Speaker 1: very weird. But it's it's I find trouble letting people
Speaker 1: know that, yeah, because I get so nervous, like what
Speaker 1: if he thinks that's weird? I think, you know what
Speaker 1: it is? I think I think this is going to
Speaker 1: be I'm gonna say a blanket statement. I think younger
Speaker 1: women are much more adventurous than they used to be.
Speaker 1: It seems that it's really wild. And it's it's because
Speaker 1: I'm a little older and I've had Before I was
Speaker 1: with Hallie, I was single for a while and I
Speaker 1: was with all kinds of different women, and I was
Speaker 1: just really shocked at how kind of aggressively open and
Speaker 1: into crazy ship that younger women were kind of crazy ship. Well,
Speaker 1: just like just it felt really porny. Everything felt really
Speaker 1: like the discourse was very pornyphic, and I mean like
Speaker 1: they were in a good way, because I feel like
Speaker 1: sometimes people are influenced by porn in a bad way,
Speaker 1: Now in a good way. It was like open them
Speaker 1: up to like that, go zero to sixty, and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you know your ass is getting eaten out.
Speaker 1: Yeah baby, And I'm like, what the fuck? This didn't
Speaker 1: happen in the eighties. It's the first time like that
Speaker 1: when women aren't aren't so afraid of being called horrors
Speaker 1: because we're with the anti slood chaming, which is kind
Speaker 1: of what the point of this podcast is. It's like, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: we're finally not being called horror, so we can just
Speaker 1: be ourselves sexual people, which is not gender. There's a
Speaker 1: moment you have where you're like, oh, I shouldn't be
Speaker 1: getting treated this way. It's actually they're wrong, and I'm fine,
Speaker 1: like you don't. For me, I didn't realize that until
Speaker 1: my probably mid twenties. Really, I think it's a good time.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's a good time right now for
Speaker 1: both and I think for young men and women. I
Speaker 1: also I think it's a really strange time with all
Speaker 1: the dating apps because I've never done those because i'm
Speaker 1: sort of out've I guess I've outgrown, I've out I'm
Speaker 1: too old for them. So but I have younger friends,
Speaker 1: like this guy in the writer's room that I was
Speaker 1: in last year. He was constantly he was constantly swiping,
Speaker 1: and I was like, what are you doing? And he
Speaker 1: showed me and he was just it was like this
Speaker 1: video game of of girls, Yes exactly he was. He
Speaker 1: was kind of enlisting and like anyway to all of
Speaker 1: them and would say yes, but he would show me
Speaker 1: who he would say yes to, and and then I
Speaker 1: was like, wow, let me see this one. And I
Speaker 1: was just like, but the whole thing is the accessibility
Speaker 1: and the kind of um, the availability and the kind
Speaker 1: of interest on both sides is really interesting. And I
Speaker 1: think the discourse of like, how are we going to
Speaker 1: get together tonight? It used to be like Victorian, you'd
Speaker 1: have to like get somebody's number and call them and
Speaker 1: then you have to meet now it's like I'll be
Speaker 1: here at seven, and then it's just like on, so
Speaker 1: I'm so interested to see I love Whenever um publications
Speaker 1: come out that they're like, what's going to be the
Speaker 1: effect of this? This is probably gonna sunk us up.
Speaker 1: We'll see you're just kind of waiting around. But there's
Speaker 1: something weird about the mentality of just be judging off
Speaker 1: of your instant attraction based off of one photo. That's
Speaker 1: so it's weird. And women I know, and I know
Speaker 1: a lot of men are that are like this, but
Speaker 1: mostly women that I know is there. It's so it's
Speaker 1: so much more than your fucking picture and how you look,
Speaker 1: Like the attraction almost has barely anything to do with
Speaker 1: the looks. Yeah, if I can't, like I would say
Speaker 1: to my friend, uh, I'd say, like, how do you know?
Speaker 1: This is how her face is going to move differently
Speaker 1: when she speaks? Like what if her side awful? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What are her what is her what's her level? How
Speaker 1: do her eyes work? You know, like that's where does
Speaker 1: her thought live? Like that's what I get turned on? Right,
Speaker 1: you know, I know I was gonna say I was
Speaker 1: like that I thought in a dirty way. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying like an intellectual. I mean, I know when you're
Speaker 1: with somebody and you're having a good time, it's not
Speaker 1: about like that. It looked like this painting. No, Well,
Speaker 1: when someone gives off a sexual vibe, it's so interesting.
Speaker 1: I'm so fascinated by people like that, just like men
Speaker 1: and women. It doesn't matter, like people in the room,
Speaker 1: they just have the sexuality that they just admit and
Speaker 1: they're not even trying. But like that, you can't gauge
Speaker 1: on Tinder. Yeah, but he was doing it, and he
Speaker 1: was he was on like three or four different services,
Speaker 1: and he would tell me that the strategy was to
Speaker 1: have to set up on a night and that if
Speaker 1: one wasn't working out, you could back out of it
Speaker 1: and go to the next one. So just you have
Speaker 1: you had a foolproof plan for getting late. There was
Speaker 1: like a yeah, it was like and it came down
Speaker 1: to that, like he was he would say, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna spend two hund and something's going to happen,
Speaker 1: And I mean that's prostitution on both spy just yeah,
Speaker 1: in that case, that's also service here as a woman
Speaker 1: knowing like going on on a date that that's like
Speaker 1: everyone's like, I will fux something tonight. That's that's kind
Speaker 1: of fright now, And I wonder, like, what is the
Speaker 1: awareness of that on on the other side of the
Speaker 1: woman showing up, Like do they do they know that?
Speaker 1: Or is that part of the is that part of
Speaker 1: the game now? I think women are just naturally cautious
Speaker 1: because they know what some men are capable of. And
Speaker 1: I don't think the majority of men are bad by
Speaker 1: any means, but there's so many that suck or do
Speaker 1: shitty things that you're like just based off of their
Speaker 1: sexual urges that are caveman like and like get a
Speaker 1: funking old ears off. Yeah, there's some people. I can't
Speaker 1: remember who it was. This one woman was saying she
Speaker 1: was she went on a Tinder date and she's like
Speaker 1: someone who would never go on it. She's like a
Speaker 1: really sweet that she's sweet, but she's just not someone
Speaker 1: who needs to go on Tinder. But it was like
Speaker 1: an experiment and she said she was ready to end
Speaker 1: the date and the guy was like, so, what are
Speaker 1: we doing and she was like, we did it, We
Speaker 1: did what we were doing, and he was like, no,
Speaker 1: what are we doing. Now am I coming home with you?
Speaker 1: Are you coming home with me? Are we getting another drink?
Speaker 1: And she was like no, I'm good. Yeah, but there
Speaker 1: was this like result expection and she was like, that's crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that just because he paid for dinner. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: just think that's an entitlement person. It's crazy. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: how did you how did you meet your your current girlfriend?
Speaker 1: Oh man, this is so weird, this is actually embarrassing,
Speaker 1: but it's true. I was living in l a um
Speaker 1: my book publisher had urged me to get on Twitter back, yeah,
Speaker 1: because I don't have much of a presence on that
Speaker 1: on social media, and so that looks like a weight
Speaker 1: on that, a lot of that box to carry around.
Speaker 1: I had joined Twitter, and I and I saw like
Speaker 1: three days later, I had like forty three people following me,
Speaker 1: and I was like, who are these people? And I
Speaker 1: was going through and one was a picture of a
Speaker 1: of a woman and she was attractive, but she had
Speaker 1: she was asphyxiating herself with a plastic bag, and I
Speaker 1: was who is that? And then I just and I realized,
Speaker 1: So I friend I friended her, followed her back, I
Speaker 1: followed her back, and then I and I didn't know
Speaker 1: much about how Twitter works. So I was in a
Speaker 1: coffee shop in LA because I didn't know anybody in
Speaker 1: l A. And I was just like a coffee shop
Speaker 1: a lot and uh. And I was like, oh, you
Speaker 1: can actually send a message to someone you're friends with.
Speaker 1: And so I just said her name is Hallie and
Speaker 1: I was like, Hallie, who are you like? And then
Speaker 1: she wrote back. She was like I'm just uh, she
Speaker 1: said something innocuus And then I said where are you
Speaker 1: And she was like, I'm actually in l A. But
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm not I don't live here. I'm just
Speaker 1: passing through town. And I was like, I'm in l
Speaker 1: A too. It was like one of those moments. Then
Speaker 1: we met three or four days later at that same
Speaker 1: coffee shop and like, I mean it sounds ridiculous, that's
Speaker 1: actually true. And we met and then then I kind
Speaker 1: of felt for her really quickly, and she kind of
Speaker 1: was tough for a few days. And then she asked
Speaker 1: me to dinner and yeah, she was no. She she
Speaker 1: kept giving me the handshake at the end of the name.
Speaker 1: This is going to be fun. And then then that
Speaker 1: Christmas I had come back to New York, so this
Speaker 1: is like a month later. We were kind of texting
Speaker 1: and emailing and stuff, and then she so I sort
Speaker 1: of invited myself to her house for probably pay and
Speaker 1: she was staying with her parents in Florida, and she
Speaker 1: was like as a joke, she was like, yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: come on, and I did. And then and then that
Speaker 1: was it. Well that's a ballsy move, I know. I was.
Speaker 1: I was pretty into her. You knew what you wanted
Speaker 1: and then you were shot. That's fucking dope. Wow. So
Speaker 1: I mean, let's go by a little what was your
Speaker 1: first sexual experience? Like it was just a funny story.
Speaker 1: So I lost my virginity the summer of my seventh
Speaker 1: grade year. I was very very prepubescent, Like she not
Speaker 1: not hair one, but you got boners. I got boners
Speaker 1: but no pubes were like whoa boners? And I was
Speaker 1: I just turned thirteen. And her, I'm sure she'd be
Speaker 1: fine with me saying this. Her name is Gina Dickie
Speaker 1: and she was she was on the track team with
Speaker 1: me and we She was very mature. She looked like
Speaker 1: a woman already, and I looked like a puppet. I
Speaker 1: looked like a claymation puppet. You know and U. But
Speaker 1: somehow she liked me and we we went out for
Speaker 1: a little while, and I think she was she was
Speaker 1: wanting to do stuff. I mean we were already doing stuff,
Speaker 1: but she was wanting to fight. And I was like, yeah.
Speaker 1: And my two best friends their names were Jeep and Joey,
Speaker 1: and they were like they were having sex since they
Speaker 1: were eleven. Yeah, And there were these mature eleven twelve
Speaker 1: year olds. They were brothers, and they lived down in
Speaker 1: this apartment complex. They lived a few doors down from me,
Speaker 1: and so I was learning. I was learning from them,
Speaker 1: like I was learning, oh that this is how you
Speaker 1: do it. Tell eleven year old, tell you to have
Speaker 1: this is how you have sex. Well, it wasn't so
Speaker 1: much that, like I wasn't there and they weren't like
Speaker 1: essaying it for me, but it was just they were
Speaker 1: doing it, and so I was like, well, then I
Speaker 1: better do it, you know. So it was that, and
Speaker 1: she came over to my apartment and I took up
Speaker 1: before picture of her on the sofa. It was like
Speaker 1: a calico, a calico wool sofa, which is you shouldn't
Speaker 1: funk on a wolf, so that sounds painful. And then
Speaker 1: there was burned. I think I was on tops, but
Speaker 1: she probably burned. But I remember I came, nothing came out,
Speaker 1: but I came in like sixty five seconds, and she
Speaker 1: it was the best thing I've ever felt. And no
Speaker 1: seeming came out. Nothing came out that because you hadn't
Speaker 1: hit I hadn't hit puberty yet, so then you just
Speaker 1: experienced an orgasm a woman. I had the full body orgasm,
Speaker 1: the same feeling that you have when I come, but
Speaker 1: like nothing came out. And I was worried because I
Speaker 1: didn't know, if you know, I didn't know what that meant.
Speaker 1: I didn't know when things would start coming out, you know.
Speaker 1: I was again I was had you masturbated before that? Yeah? Okay,
Speaker 1: so you knew what an orgasm? I know what it
Speaker 1: felt like, but but I didn't. Anyway, it was. It
Speaker 1: was one of the greatest days of my life. And
Speaker 1: then we had sex probably like five or six more times.
Speaker 1: And then she left me for a nineteen year old
Speaker 1: who was like this mature due to the mustache. So
Speaker 1: were you heartbroken? I was heartbroken. And I was in
Speaker 1: love with her all through military school and I would
Speaker 1: write her and then she wrote her, and then she
Speaker 1: started dating this guy who she's now married to, who
Speaker 1: was a former Major League Baseball pitcher named Steve Harris,
Speaker 1: and they're still married and they're happily married. And whenever
Speaker 1: I go home and sometimes once in a while, I
Speaker 1: would see her just randomly, and I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: there's the first girl I had sex with. So it's
Speaker 1: a it's a it's kind of a good story. Stories
Speaker 1: seem so much more pleasurable. I hear all these terrible
Speaker 1: stories about the first time. I mean, also, I don't
Speaker 1: think I was like big enough to give her any pain.
Speaker 1: It must have been, you know, I think it was
Speaker 1: probably like she was getting fingered pis didn't really Now
Speaker 1: you seem you seem to get very attached. Do you
Speaker 1: have like an obsessive personality? Because I have one, and
Speaker 1: I since that, I definitely have had that. I definitely
Speaker 1: had that. Okay, So I mean, what is it? So
Speaker 1: what is a breakup like for you? Oh? Yeah, how
Speaker 1: do you handle that? You know? Since as an adult,
Speaker 1: I guess it's been a lot of times like I
Speaker 1: was restless, so it was me leaving and it was
Speaker 1: and it was always it was always a bad idea. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was like I was with I wasn't ready to
Speaker 1: be in a long term relationship, but I thought I
Speaker 1: wanted like a like a traditional relationship. But then I
Speaker 1: would get restless, and then I would leave, and then
Speaker 1: I would you know, it was it was a pattern
Speaker 1: for many years of that, Like I would what was
Speaker 1: that serial monogamy? I was a serial monogamist? I think
Speaker 1: I was. I think I think I've always been a
Speaker 1: little bit afraid of honkering down for too long because
Speaker 1: on your owner with somebody else, with somebody else, because
Speaker 1: you know, the lifestyle I have with theater and film
Speaker 1: and TV and traveling, and you know, it's it's you're
Speaker 1: a loner and you're like you're jumping on different islands
Speaker 1: all the time. So there's a there's a lot of
Speaker 1: exciting there's a lot of exciting women you meet, and
Speaker 1: then there's also like it's hard to maintain something without
Speaker 1: a ritual of seeing somebody every day. I used to think,
Speaker 1: like you need three if you if you're separated for
Speaker 1: more than three weeks, then you should like think about
Speaker 1: ending the relationship or at least opening it up or
Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah, have you ever had an open
Speaker 1: relationship Okay, would you ever? I don't know. I'm very possessive, so, uh,
Speaker 1: I don't think I could. Does your girlfriend like that?
Speaker 1: I feel like she's really like I feel like you're
Speaker 1: possessive in a really sweet, kind hearted way. I could
Speaker 1: be wrong, tell me if I'm wrong. I'd like to
Speaker 1: believe that. But you're just so gondamn poetic, and I
Speaker 1: feel like what normal guys could do that maybe come
Speaker 1: off creepy. You just put it in a way that's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm really blunt though with that stuff, I'm like, don't,
Speaker 1: which is refreshing. It's nice. I want to, you know,
Speaker 1: I'd like to think that. I'd like to think I
Speaker 1: could do a normal thing for a while. I mean,
Speaker 1: I am doing a normal thing well, but like I
Speaker 1: think earlier in my career, you're you're meeting so many
Speaker 1: fascinating women and like actresses and designers and uh directors
Speaker 1: and like really smart, cool women who I didn't I
Speaker 1: worked in book publishing for five years, and it was
Speaker 1: more of a uh you'd meet very smart women, but
Speaker 1: they were sort of kind of all not all cut
Speaker 1: from the same cloth, but it wasn't they weren't as
Speaker 1: exciting to me as this as the artists who are
Speaker 1: I was meeting, and so like that's just an endless
Speaker 1: thing that happens if you continue to work, and you
Speaker 1: just have to learn how to manage that. Yeah, and not.
Speaker 1: I mean you could still be excited by a woman,
Speaker 1: but then it is then you have it has to
Speaker 1: end there, right, Like my boyfriend describes it as like
Speaker 1: he just puts blinders on and he just doesn't even
Speaker 1: let himself think about another woman. But I'm like, you can.
Speaker 1: It's okay, Like we've been together for five years, you
Speaker 1: should get excited. That's that's electrifying to get excited by that.
Speaker 1: We are electrified each other. But in a completely different
Speaker 1: way than that that if he meets as fascinating beautiful
Speaker 1: woman who's fucking talented, and like, it's okay to get
Speaker 1: electrified and fascinated by that. I know people who are
Speaker 1: healthy who do have open relationships, and sometimes it works.
Speaker 1: One of my really good friends who's one of my
Speaker 1: former assistants, she's the lead singer in this band called Wall,
Speaker 1: and her boyfriend is in Parquet Courts and they're a
Speaker 1: great couple. Um Sam, her name is Sam, and his
Speaker 1: name is Austin, and uh, she was assisting me on
Speaker 1: a film and they had opened up their relationship and
Speaker 1: I remember she was excited because she liked this p
Speaker 1: A on the film. She was she was like twenty
Speaker 1: four at the time, and he was just like cool
Speaker 1: sexy p A And they hooked up and then like
Speaker 1: two days later, she was really fucked up about it.
Speaker 1: And then she then she kind of found out that Austin,
Speaker 1: like I had a thing and now they were like, no,
Speaker 1: we're just they're for us. Well, that's that's cool that
Speaker 1: they tried it, because it's not it's certainly not for everybody.
Speaker 1: I would like to try it one day. Um, just
Speaker 1: because I met my boyfriend, I was really young, like
Speaker 1: twenty two or twenty three, So I feel like there's
Speaker 1: amazing men and there's amazing women that he can still meet.
Speaker 1: But you know, I don't. You never know until you
Speaker 1: do it, and then you gotta see how you feel.
Speaker 1: But I also cut holding fetish, so that helps. Also,
Speaker 1: living with someone is hard if you're doing that, because
Speaker 1: then you're actually dealing with like the scent of another
Speaker 1: person and the kind of every little and every time
Speaker 1: they come in the door. Yeah, every time they walk
Speaker 1: in the door. Then there's this accountability energy. So do
Speaker 1: you have a specific method for directing women or a
Speaker 1: different technique that you use them when you're directing men
Speaker 1: at all? You know, I've I used to think that
Speaker 1: that was important, but I find I find now like
Speaker 1: that I just have to be as bold and as
Speaker 1: even in some ways more bold and more honest because
Speaker 1: they will A smart, talented female actress will sniff out
Speaker 1: your bullshit faster than anybody. So if I'm not just
Speaker 1: blunt and honest, even if it's an unpopular thing to say, Um,
Speaker 1: if I'm just not that person, then it won't work.
Speaker 1: I have to and like your roommate is like that,
Speaker 1: and I love that about her because how can she
Speaker 1: excel and get better at her craft if she's not
Speaker 1: getting on his feedback? Yeah, exactly, we feel the same way,
Speaker 1: Like you need to be so I pulled no punches,
Speaker 1: and I pray I praise as well, but I but
Speaker 1: I try to be as uh. I try to. Like,
Speaker 1: I find that they appreciate as I've gotten older and
Speaker 1: I've got more experience, they appreciate kind of even a
Speaker 1: more brutal kind of honest than even the men do.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, men are it can be. As I
Speaker 1: get older, I kind of I'm like, are men more
Speaker 1: sensitive than women? Think? I think I think there there
Speaker 1: there can be more narcissism with a male actor than
Speaker 1: a female. The male ego is more fragile than the
Speaker 1: female eagle. I think I think that might be true.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm fucking friend. I like I had last night,
Speaker 1: I had my first preview of my new play and
Speaker 1: we had it was a good It was a really
Speaker 1: nice audience and had a good it was a good show,
Speaker 1: and the guy who directed the world premiere of it
Speaker 1: was there and like we just had lunch. That's where
Speaker 1: I was before I met with you, And like the
Speaker 1: first twenty minutes, I was like, man, did he like it?
Speaker 1: And it's my own play that I was supposed to
Speaker 1: direct the first time and I hired. I brought him
Speaker 1: in because I had I couldn't do it because of
Speaker 1: a TV TV thing, And he did a great job.
Speaker 1: And I definitely think I've improved the play um and
Speaker 1: I think it's a better play now. But you know,
Speaker 1: the first twenty minutes, I'm like, I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: thirteen years old looking for her his approval, you know,
Speaker 1: So I feel like that might be true. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I think women that I've worked with for
Speaker 1: the most part, um, they're pretty badass, and they're also
Speaker 1: really they're really hungry for honesty. And I think it's
Speaker 1: tricky in the theater with with male directors, Like there's
Speaker 1: a lot of um, there's a lot of potential for
Speaker 1: power trips and misogyny, and like that's another thing. I'm
Speaker 1: a I'm a straight I'm a straight white male who's
Speaker 1: attracted to uh, actresses and designers and directors. You know,
Speaker 1: any any woman who's interesting to me, I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: attracted to. So I have to be very aware of
Speaker 1: that problem. And I write plays that sex in them.
Speaker 1: I write plays that have nudity, I think equal parts
Speaker 1: male and female, right brutal moments and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So I have to be extra sensitive about not um,
Speaker 1: I guess trafficking and and those same tropes as a
Speaker 1: as a as a collaborator, you know, I have to
Speaker 1: like I have to help help us, help them and
Speaker 1: myself get to those moments without being a creep. Well,
Speaker 1: I think you seem fascinated by women, and I feel
Speaker 1: like that's probably why you're good writing female roles, because
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a lot of people that can't.
Speaker 1: A lot of men try and write female roles and
Speaker 1: they're just one dimensional and it's so fucking exhaust it's
Speaker 1: so heart it's almost heartbreaking. It's such a waste of
Speaker 1: an actress and a role um. And so when you
Speaker 1: see a woman a female partist, I love when it's
Speaker 1: written by a man and he fucking nails it, Like
Speaker 1: that's a true connection. I love writing women. Part of
Speaker 1: it is because I do love women, and part of
Speaker 1: it is because I'm They're mysterious and weird and I
Speaker 1: like to write things I don't. Yeah, yeah, and uh.
Speaker 1: But there's also like there's also some female play rights
Speaker 1: who can write the ship out of men, which is
Speaker 1: so awesome. Like there's this woman named Gina Ganfriedo who
Speaker 1: writes men like better than men, which is she's a
Speaker 1: she can write the ship out a minute. I don't
Speaker 1: know what happened to her or why she can do that,
Speaker 1: but like anytime she has a play, I'll go. You
Speaker 1: go watch her male characters and you're like they're really
Speaker 1: really fascinating, And I think her most interesting characters are
Speaker 1: her men So interesting, You're talking about misogyny in the
Speaker 1: theater world, Like, have you witnessed that? Is that? I know,
Speaker 1: there's misogyny in the film industry, Like that's pretty We've
Speaker 1: heard a lot of stories about it, um and in television,
Speaker 1: but what about the theater world. Yeah, I mean there's
Speaker 1: there's a kind of famous story that will go unnamed.
Speaker 1: But this young director was she was assisting somebody at
Speaker 1: a major regional theater and and it was just old fashioned,
Speaker 1: like he's hitting on her the whole time time he
Speaker 1: was showing up at her hotel room at night. There
Speaker 1: was actually a settlement, like she eventually, you know, there
Speaker 1: was a lawsuit she she you know, charged he was
Speaker 1: going to be charged with They settled out of court
Speaker 1: that should he was gonna be charged with whatever that
Speaker 1: is sexual harassment um, and she got paid. But it
Speaker 1: was I mean, it was like it was almost like
Speaker 1: a horror story. Like if like he she would pull
Speaker 1: her uh her blind zone and he would be looking
Speaker 1: in her window. She was also like watching his children,
Speaker 1: uh and his wife was apparently maybe in the play
Speaker 1: that he was directing. So there was this weird incestuous
Speaker 1: thing going on too. So like I've heard many, many,
Speaker 1: many stories like that. I mean, you know when any
Speaker 1: anytime an artist is uh vulnerable in front of a
Speaker 1: a boss, which is a director, Um, there's gonna be
Speaker 1: the potential for all kinds of power games. And you
Speaker 1: know there's also like I've fallen in love with actresses. Uh.
Speaker 1: I dated a woman named Katherine Waterston for five and
Speaker 1: a half six years, and we fell in love while
Speaker 1: I was directing her in a play. You know, so
Speaker 1: that I didn't you really got to know her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you get there. It's a very intimate situation. So I
Speaker 1: think that happens too, And I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of couples that come out of place, you know, because
Speaker 1: you're exposing yourself. You're like, if you're all after the
Speaker 1: same thing, it kind of feels like you're falling in love.
Speaker 1: Even creatively. That's co stars, I mean in Hollywood stuff
Speaker 1: and you meet all these people that how I mean,
Speaker 1: can you turn that off? Can you turn blinder? Can
Speaker 1: you really turn blinders on? When you are in a
Speaker 1: relationship and you're you're really happy and then someone that
Speaker 1: you're just you're just fascinated by, for whatever reason comes along, Like,
Speaker 1: what do you do? Do you let them? Do you
Speaker 1: let yourself be fascinated by them, or do you just
Speaker 1: like don't look them in the I mean you can't
Speaker 1: if you're especially if you're going to direct them. I
Speaker 1: think you have to be honest with yourself and not
Speaker 1: I think if you start, I've tried the other version
Speaker 1: where you like put the blinders on and you turn
Speaker 1: into a robot, you know, and then you're just closing
Speaker 1: yourself off to something. So I just try to like
Speaker 1: enjoy it but not act on it and appreciate it
Speaker 1: for what it is. And like there's a lot of
Speaker 1: really I mean, look, I know Hallie my girlfriend, she's
Speaker 1: around all these cool she covers rock and roll shows.
Speaker 1: She's like, she's a screenwriter, she's a journalist, she's a novelist.
Speaker 1: She does all kinds of writing cool things. She knows
Speaker 1: a lot of bands, she's been around the art scene
Speaker 1: a lot, and every I know, every single dude in
Speaker 1: her life is fascinated buyer. I know they are, and
Speaker 1: she's been proposed to like six times. I mean, so
Speaker 1: I just have to like a fascinating she's she's she is,
Speaker 1: and she can't blame them fascinating and she's odd, and
Speaker 1: she's she's really beautiful and she's to be a ballerina
Speaker 1: for twenty years. So she's like she's so I'm like,
Speaker 1: I just have to kind of accept that, you know,
Speaker 1: and just be confident. Just be confident that like she's
Speaker 1: gotta like me. Yeah, that sounded very confident. Here's got
Speaker 1: to keep not get ugly or something. Don't get ugly.
Speaker 1: That's a secret to a healthful relationship. When I was what,
Speaker 1: I was getting my ticket outside the flee for Wolf
Speaker 1: in the River, I noticed a sign that said graphic
Speaker 1: violence and nudity and that I've just been thinking about
Speaker 1: that since I saw because I truly feel like we
Speaker 1: as a society, especially in America, think that seeing the
Speaker 1: human form without clothes on is just as bad as
Speaker 1: seeing someone get the ship beat out of them. Do
Speaker 1: you have any Compeentaria, Yeah, yeah, I think it's really interesting. Like,
Speaker 1: you know, people will go on the Internet and they'll
Speaker 1: go on YouTube and then watch the most hideous things.
Speaker 1: They'll go on the news, they'll see the most hideous things.
Speaker 1: They'll go on porn sites and see the most hideous
Speaker 1: things and most awesome things too. But like, but if
Speaker 1: you go into a theater and and someone's paying a ticket,
Speaker 1: paying for a ticket, which is a license, it's a license,
Speaker 1: and you get licensed to go sit and witness something.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, we get into this puritanical idea
Speaker 1: of what the human form is or what the naked
Speaker 1: body is. But we'll we'll like overdigest violence, sex, uh, YouTube, Netflix,
Speaker 1: Brown Bunny, whatever they can. People will just overdigest that.
Speaker 1: And then you go to the theater, which is supposed
Speaker 1: to be like high art, and people expect, you know,
Speaker 1: a kind of cleanliness or a kind of puritanical take
Speaker 1: on what sexuality or what sex or they're they're freaked
Speaker 1: out by that. When it's really right there in front
Speaker 1: of them, it feels like suddenly we're puritanical again. And
Speaker 1: I think safety screening and I feel like that's I'm
Speaker 1: trying to mess with that, because you know, we're not.
Speaker 1: There's I think there's a there's a an insidious discourse
Speaker 1: of consumer violence in this country that you know that
Speaker 1: is on display and every media outlet. I mean, when
Speaker 1: I go work out at Equinox, I'm there's seventeen TVs
Speaker 1: above you you know, when you're on the site the
Speaker 1: bicycle or when you're stretching or whatever, and there's just
Speaker 1: like a rotisse ory of of like the Housewives of
Speaker 1: New Jersey and CNN and bombs going off and soldiers
Speaker 1: eating babies and crazy just yeah, like crazy shit like
Speaker 1: and and then you go to the theater and people
Speaker 1: get upset because someone's having sex with a blow up
Speaker 1: doll and it's they're probably not even really penetrating the
Speaker 1: blow up bell just looks that way, but like people
Speaker 1: freak out if like, have you ever gotten complaints? Like complaints? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think there's you know, when whenever I worked regionally
Speaker 1: at regional theaters, there's always like a complaint box or
Speaker 1: or or a comments box, which I think the theater
Speaker 1: puts out there for praise, but a lot of times
Speaker 1: I'm likely Yeah, the play I did, um there was
Speaker 1: a play where a called Finer Finer Noble Gases where
Speaker 1: a man gets up off he kind of climbs out
Speaker 1: of a stupor he's like under blankets and he's been
Speaker 1: sort of zoned out for forty minutes and he stands
Speaker 1: and then he urinates onto his drum set. It's actually
Speaker 1: into a broken kick drum or Tom drum an upside
Speaker 1: down Tom drum and urininates and he would probably urinate
Speaker 1: for like like sometimes two minutes because he had trained
Speaker 1: his body. He would drink a gallon of water and
Speaker 1: then he would train his body to time out at
Speaker 1: that and he never failed. He did it every single show,
Speaker 1: and he did like over two and he's not even
Speaker 1: an actor. He's a drummer Namedray Rizzone. He's a genius.
Speaker 1: But anyway, we had so much crazy people, like thirty
Speaker 1: people would walk out. You know, I'm like pissing. We
Speaker 1: piss in buckets, we piss in the woods, We piss
Speaker 1: and will piss out the car window, will piss into
Speaker 1: a Pepsi bottle. Like but the minute someone does it
Speaker 1: on stage, suddenly it's like a it's a it's a
Speaker 1: horrible crime against culture. And uh, it was fascinating because
Speaker 1: it created a really interesting debate about, you know, within
Speaker 1: the audience in that moment, about who was staying and
Speaker 1: who was going, and it was kind of this great
Speaker 1: moment um. But it taught me a lot about like
Speaker 1: limits and what people. You know, it's it's really interesting
Speaker 1: that we spend all this time in the bathroom in
Speaker 1: our lives, and yet if we see it on stage,
Speaker 1: it freaks people to funk out. You know, that's so weird. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and also maybe it was like kind of like if
Speaker 1: we're starting with us, where is it going to go
Speaker 1: from here? People are like scared of what they don't coming.
Speaker 1: I mean, theater is just so wonderful. Like when I
Speaker 1: walked into Wolf from the River, I was just you know,
Speaker 1: it's just there's a big pile of soil and I
Speaker 1: don't want to give it, give it away for everyone,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, what the funk are we
Speaker 1: getting into? It had this kind of interesting between like
Speaker 1: a play and like a haunted house, and I truly
Speaker 1: felt like I was a part of it. And it's
Speaker 1: interesting to hear that you had no like training, because
Speaker 1: I was just like, this just feels raw, this feels
Speaker 1: like I'm in It feels like I've seen a lot
Speaker 1: of theater, a lot of Broadway, I've done a lot
Speaker 1: of theater myself, and it's like nothing I've ever seen before.
Speaker 1: I've even seen Hambleton's. It's nothing like ham Ham Hamilton,
Speaker 1: and it's not even like that, It's not not even
Speaker 1: like that. Well, I remember my one acting to my
Speaker 1: one acting professor in college was like, like, next time
Speaker 1: you're on the subway, just just observe somebody and pretend
Speaker 1: you're actually watching them on stage, Like pretend they're on stage.
Speaker 1: And then when you really get into that and you
Speaker 1: pretend and they're just moving and they're every little thing,
Speaker 1: and you're like, that's fucking brilliant. Like it's so electrified
Speaker 1: when those private moment once are on stage. It's like,
Speaker 1: so maybe that I just overwhelmed. I'm to see a
Speaker 1: man piss because I mean seeing a woman, old woman
Speaker 1: knit the way she knit and her her knuckles were
Speaker 1: very large, and you could tell she had a arthritis,
Speaker 1: and like if she really was an actor on stage
Speaker 1: at that moment, I was the most blown away that
Speaker 1: I've ever been by a performance. So like, the stage
Speaker 1: has this way of just fucking making those tiny moments
Speaker 1: so much bigger. It's the moments that we're not aware.
Speaker 1: It's the lack of self awareness and those moments that
Speaker 1: make them beautiful, you know, And I think what happens
Speaker 1: in the key, I think too, the key to achieving
Speaker 1: those moments in theaters to like create a situation where
Speaker 1: the actor feels like there's a there's a lack of
Speaker 1: self awareness so that they can be incredibly private and
Speaker 1: they can focus on the smallest details of of what
Speaker 1: the function of what I'm doing is, as opposed to like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's a audience that I'm playing too, and I'm in
Speaker 1: a theater that looks like this and it smells like this,
Speaker 1: and but yeah, I've I've always been fast ended by
Speaker 1: those those things. I think watching people do tasks on
Speaker 1: stage is there's nothing like it, like folding laundry or
Speaker 1: like putting dishes away, because suddenly we do these things.
Speaker 1: That's the craziest thing. Like, I just the way that
Speaker 1: they were miming everything was so funny. It was as
Speaker 1: if you know when like sometimes fonts will have like
Speaker 1: lines half of the letter missing, but you could still
Speaker 1: make it out when you like go so far away,
Speaker 1: it was like you could see the bowl in the
Speaker 1: woman's hand. Yeah, that's really cool that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: Is there any particular piece that you've written or directed
Speaker 1: that has influenced your life more than you thought it would,
Speaker 1: or has had like a lasting effect on you and
Speaker 1: how you live. I think Red Light Winner had a
Speaker 1: big effect on my life, like just because it was
Speaker 1: the success level it hit, and also money wise, I
Speaker 1: started to make some money as a playwright and a director,
Speaker 1: and I think I saw that you could be solvent
Speaker 1: and in the field. So like I started to think
Speaker 1: of it didn't feel like this poor poet pursuit, you know,
Speaker 1: if it started to feel like I could actually make
Speaker 1: a difference, get to it, reach an audience, and actually
Speaker 1: um and actually pay my rent, you know. So that
Speaker 1: was that was a big one. I think my Plan
Speaker 1: Nock Turn was a huge moment for me because it
Speaker 1: was the first play I think I was twenty nine.
Speaker 1: It was an at airt in Boston and then it
Speaker 1: transferred here to New York Theater Workshop. But it was
Speaker 1: a play, a big play about grief, and it's a
Speaker 1: it's largely a memory monologue, and um, it was. It
Speaker 1: kind of blew up in Boston and then it got
Speaker 1: a really nice production here and it was up for
Speaker 1: rewards and stuff. But that was the one that kind
Speaker 1: of allowed other theaters and other people who were were
Speaker 1: intrigued by my work but we're afraid of it. That
Speaker 1: allowed them to say yes to to the other work.
Speaker 1: And so it kind of opened a lot of doors
Speaker 1: for me. Um. But Red Light Winner was was also
Speaker 1: really important because it's the first one I listed down
Speaker 1: directing and I had I had had that impulse the
Speaker 1: entire time since my first one, and I don't again,
Speaker 1: I don't have any training. So I did. I did.
Speaker 1: I could never say like, well, I know how to
Speaker 1: do this, but I did know how to do it,
Speaker 1: and it was just it was just in my bones,
Speaker 1: and I I finally like stepped up. And when Martha
Speaker 1: Levy offered me the production at seven if, I said, well,
Speaker 1: I have to direct it, and it was a real
Speaker 1: risk and she had to think about it for a
Speaker 1: few days and then she came back and said, Okay,
Speaker 1: you can do it. Um. But that was also the
Speaker 1: first time and I had directed before that, but it
Speaker 1: was the first major production that I was allowed to
Speaker 1: direct of my own work, and that kind of I
Speaker 1: think a lot of other people said, well, he should
Speaker 1: be directing his own work, you know, because other directors
Speaker 1: haven't quite gotten it. So it's always a more succinct
Speaker 1: vision to films that the writer also directed. I love yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think it's it's it happens less and less
Speaker 1: in American theater because there's this m F a system
Speaker 1: where playwrights and directors are divided, and then the kind
Speaker 1: of career ist, the careerism that come out of that
Speaker 1: as completely separate, and it's you know, but I look
Speaker 1: at Richard Maxwell or or even Richard Nelson, who writes
Speaker 1: straight plays. Um, he's a very good director of his
Speaker 1: own work. He doesn't direct all of them, but um,
Speaker 1: but I prefer his his productions to other people's productions
Speaker 1: of his work. Um, it does happen. I mean, Mike
Speaker 1: Lee started that, the thing that is now his films,
Speaker 1: he started as a playwright, conceiver director. Um with this
Speaker 1: guy named Mike Bradwell who I met in London who
Speaker 1: directed one of my plays, and and hearing their stories
Speaker 1: about how they kind of came up devising plays together
Speaker 1: and making work together, and you know, that's all a tourism.
Speaker 1: And I feel like that's all it is. I'm just
Speaker 1: continuing the authorship. When I direct, I'm not I'm not
Speaker 1: like putting a new hat on like I'm and now
Speaker 1: when I write them, I'm thinking about the space, the audience.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the production as I write that, right,
Speaker 1: because it gives you a better perspective to write from,
Speaker 1: I'm sure. And with Wolf from the River, it was
Speaker 1: that from the very very beginning, it was I knew
Speaker 1: that it would be amount of dirt. I knew there
Speaker 1: would be it would be a circle of chairs, you know,
Speaker 1: the rope, all that stuff. And there's sex scenes and there,
Speaker 1: there's there's how what was what? What made you write that?
Speaker 1: I don't even can we say what if the play
Speaker 1: is about or do? You won't want to give it away?
Speaker 1: I mean there is there's no really can't there Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's still you want to give in We're
Speaker 1: you're extending it right, Yeah, we're extending June one to
Speaker 1: the sixth. If there's a synopsis, it's kind of an
Speaker 1: impressionistic look into like poverty and what it is to
Speaker 1: try to leave your hometown and and and the cost
Speaker 1: of that, and like and the nightmares of that and
Speaker 1: the transcendent parts of that. And it's all kind of
Speaker 1: a dream logic play. But there is a story that's
Speaker 1: that's in the center of it, which is this girl
Speaker 1: is trying to leave her hometown to go be with
Speaker 1: this boy who she thinks she's fallen in love with.
Speaker 1: Um and via a cell phone relationship who she meets
Speaker 1: one one day a few years before. But her brother
Speaker 1: who was a Gulf War veteran, and this woman who
Speaker 1: dates her brother, and a few other people don't want
Speaker 1: that to happen because that I was trying to. I
Speaker 1: was trying to like think a lot about what it
Speaker 1: was to leave my hometown and when I go back,
Speaker 1: people don't have any interest in actually treating me like
Speaker 1: I have become anything, because there's a kind of weird
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a jealousy or I don't
Speaker 1: know if there's a jealousy or resentment or whatever, but
Speaker 1: there are certain there's a lot of towns in our
Speaker 1: country where if you leave, if you get out, there's, um,
Speaker 1: there's consequence. And I was trying to think about the
Speaker 1: extremes of that, and uh, and these towns in the
Speaker 1: South and the midwestern South where like they don't have
Speaker 1: cell phone towers and they don't have a lot of money,
Speaker 1: and you know, there's only like there's a poverty is
Speaker 1: a whole different thing in those areas, And so I
Speaker 1: wanted to create a place of that you know, sprung
Speaker 1: from from those ideas. It was commissioned by at Night,
Speaker 1: which is the National Institute for Dramatic Art in Australia.
Speaker 1: It's where Kate Blanchett went and all those great Australian actors.
Speaker 1: And so I brought two of those actors here for
Speaker 1: this production and they were in the first I think
Speaker 1: thirty shows or something, and then um, two actors took
Speaker 1: over direct sex scenes. Do you kind of ask the
Speaker 1: actors to feel it out a little bit first and
Speaker 1: then see what you do add things? And is it
Speaker 1: as awkward as it seems to be when it's on
Speaker 1: a film set. On a film set, all the actors
Speaker 1: always say sex scenes are the least intimate thing of
Speaker 1: because the whole crew is looking at you. But when
Speaker 1: you're in rehearsal, does it get hot? And yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it can be interesting in that way. I think
Speaker 1: the rehearsal room is it's you. It's you, the actors
Speaker 1: and the stage managers and so it's a it's not
Speaker 1: like a film or of TV crew, which is really awkward.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of it's also a lot of machinery
Speaker 1: around you, which is strange to be, you know, taking
Speaker 1: your clothes off and simulating sex in front of a
Speaker 1: bunch of ms and sound boom operators and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: But in the theater, it's just you and a table
Speaker 1: of stage managers and then the actors. So when I
Speaker 1: did a really winner, it was it was actually it
Speaker 1: was actually really beautiful what they did. And we were
Speaker 1: fully lit because in a rehearsal room you're fully lit.
Speaker 1: So we started from the most exposed place you could be.
Speaker 1: And then when we got into the theater and we
Speaker 1: got into tech, when it's lit and it starts to
Speaker 1: feel where you're in silhouette or you're using moonlight, or
Speaker 1: you're using a different kind of quality of light, then
Speaker 1: they feel they can go even further, I think. But
Speaker 1: it's really it's really about trust. It's about creating enough
Speaker 1: trust in the room so that these these performers will
Speaker 1: trust each other. What we did with Wolf in the
Speaker 1: River a lot. We did a lot of work. We
Speaker 1: worked out together. I know this sounds silly, but like
Speaker 1: we would do like forty minutes of like circuit training
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of physical stuff in that play.
Speaker 1: They're becoming wolves. Yeah, and it's huge team building and
Speaker 1: you're watching people, you're watching people's limits, like when do
Speaker 1: they when does their heart rate get up too high?
Speaker 1: When do they sweat too much? They exposed that's how
Speaker 1: you expose yourselves to each other and those weird ways.
Speaker 1: And then we did a lot of vocal work and
Speaker 1: then we would like sing together, which is silly because
Speaker 1: I'm you know, but we would sing a lot. And
Speaker 1: when you're saying, you expose yourself, so that's a vulnerable thing.
Speaker 1: You can like create a lot of the breakdown all
Speaker 1: those things and have people exposing themselves and feeling and
Speaker 1: looking forward to that every day. Then I think they're
Speaker 1: going to be willing partners. That's a good move. You
Speaker 1: gotta try it move saying and working out. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: I think that's about it. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: sitting down with us. Is there anything that you want
Speaker 1: the listeners to know about you or anything you want
Speaker 1: to promote or talk tell us that they can go
Speaker 1: see besides Wolf from the River which dates out So yeah,
Speaker 1: Wolf from the River runs June one through the sixth
Speaker 1: at the Flea and then I have another play that
Speaker 1: started previous last night called The Purple Lights of Joppa,
Speaker 1: Illinois at the at the Atlantic Theater in their Stage
Speaker 1: two and it runs It started yesterday and it runs
Speaker 1: through I believe June sixth. Okay, we'll put ticket links
Speaker 1: to that in the this podcast. If you're listening right now,
Speaker 1: you go, where can we follow you on Twitter? Because
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, I followed you. Uh you say at first?
Speaker 1: Right at kids and Wolves, Kids k I D S
Speaker 1: and Andy Wolves wolves like the animal wolves. Perfect at
Speaker 1: kids and Wolves. Well, thank you so much for sitting
Speaker 1: down with us. This has been guys. We fucked the
Speaker 1: anti SLA chimming podcast. We'll talk to you next. Drunk
Speaker 1: dreaming off the day the cheer do me now? Feelings changed?
Speaker 1: So being heavy it come now? So I asked her
Speaker 1: to eat it for a dream, and I sat me
Speaker 1: standing at the door. She came in it such speed.
Speaker 1: Thought she was right just for me. It was only
Speaker 1: me to come down now. I thought, I'll tell about
Speaker 1: the dream. She study silence corn when I told her
Speaker 1: that I drowned. Let's been seen left around. Sit on
Speaker 1: me