Speaker 1: M beautiful. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Software Up Radio, Special Operations, military news
Speaker 1: and straight talk with the guys in the community. Hello, everyone,
Speaker 1: welcome back to Software Radio, Software Radio on Time on Target.
Speaker 1: I am your host this afternoon, Steve Balsari joining us.
Speaker 1: We have a great special guest with us, Mike Durant,
Speaker 1: who most of you would remember from the book and
Speaker 1: the film black Hawk Down. Was the helicopter pilot which
Speaker 1: was the black Hawk Down that everything was based upon. Mike, uh,
Speaker 1: twenty two years in the military. He's now retired from
Speaker 1: the military and he's running for office. He's running for
Speaker 1: the Senate and we're gonna talk to him about that.
Speaker 1: But before we go any further, we want to just
Speaker 1: welcome him to the podcast. Mike, thank you very much
Speaker 1: for taking the time to speak with us this afternoon.
Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. Well, thank you. It's great to
Speaker 1: be on. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: your military career. I know you said you grew up
Speaker 1: up north, Um, so, uh, when'd you grow up and
Speaker 1: what made you decide to join the military. Well, first,
Speaker 1: your accent is still a little bit more dominant than
Speaker 1: mine is. I will say that I grew up in
Speaker 1: New Hampshire, Northern New Hampshire, actually about halfway between Montreal
Speaker 1: and Boston. So you know, the big, big debate in
Speaker 1: my him town, pretty small paper mill town, was whether
Speaker 1: you're a Montreal Canadians fan or a Boston Bruins fan.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I think I I probably did
Speaker 1: a little of both, but today I would characterize myself
Speaker 1: as a Bruins fan, Red Sox fan, Patriots fan. So
Speaker 1: you know that's where my allegiance ended up. Um, but
Speaker 1: I Uh, I joined the military when I was eighteen.
Speaker 1: I wanted to fly. I had gotten to know, uh
Speaker 1: a gentleman who was a warrant officer flying for the
Speaker 1: New Hampshire National Guard. He had his own private business
Speaker 1: where he owned some aircraft, and I got to go
Speaker 1: flying with him one day. And you know, anybody's ever
Speaker 1: been in a helicopter your first helicopter ride is I
Speaker 1: don't know anyone that's not just in awe of it.
Speaker 1: You know, it's just kind of crazy. Did like a
Speaker 1: humming bird, right, I guess is the sensation that you
Speaker 1: think you have. And and I'm sitting there looking at him,
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, this is a job, I could do
Speaker 1: this and get paid to do this, that that this
Speaker 1: is for me. So he sent me on that course
Speaker 1: and I found out later he actually had done that
Speaker 1: with several teenagers that he knew. And I don't know
Speaker 1: how many of us ever made it all the way
Speaker 1: through to flight school, but that was my inspiration to
Speaker 1: join the military. Yeah, it's funny you talk about the
Speaker 1: first time in helicopter. My my first helicopter ride, I
Speaker 1: didn't land in it. We we did a helicopter jump
Speaker 1: right after jump school. So yeah, that was what a
Speaker 1: trip that is. And uh, well, I'm a big fan
Speaker 1: of staying on board the aircraft unless it's under extreme circumstances.
Speaker 1: But uh, you know, I've certainly done enough parrot jumps
Speaker 1: to know it's a pretty cool. Yeah. So you know,
Speaker 1: you went to Fort Rucker and and you were probably
Speaker 1: a Huey pilot to start off. Well, you know, black
Speaker 1: Hawks were brand new, and I did pretty well in
Speaker 1: school and I got the only black Hawks loot in
Speaker 1: the class, so I went straight to the black Hawk
Speaker 1: transition and uh, you know, again, it's sort of the
Speaker 1: same feeling I got in the black Hawk after going
Speaker 1: through the training in a Huey in flight school, and
Speaker 1: it seemed like flying a space shuttle. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: you know, much more powerful, a lot more gadgets and
Speaker 1: things in the cockpit, and and when you're fairly new
Speaker 1: to flying, getting into a machine like that was just incredible. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then I went to Korea for my first assignment
Speaker 1: and they didn't have black Hawks yet, so I got
Speaker 1: back into the Huey's for a few months, and then
Speaker 1: we got a whole ship and a brand new black
Speaker 1: Hawks about four months after I got there. What were
Speaker 1: you in the second I d up there in Korea,
Speaker 1: I flew METAVAC, which you know, initially I didn't think
Speaker 1: that was gonna be a great assignment, but in the end,
Speaker 1: as a pilot, it's a It's a fantastic assignment because
Speaker 1: you're by yourself a lot of times, and you forced
Speaker 1: you to make decisions to deal with weather, and you know,
Speaker 1: you're you're going out on emergency calls and we were
Speaker 1: we would track the number of missions that you flew
Speaker 1: uh in that unit, and I ended up leaving there
Speaker 1: with a hundred and fifty one actual met of act missions,
Speaker 1: which you know when when you survive, you know, I'll
Speaker 1: call them real world they are you know, sometimes it's
Speaker 1: not a critical situation, but a lot of times it was.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know somebody who's that young. I mean
Speaker 1: I was twenty two years old as pilot and command
Speaker 1: making those decisions. It's a great way to either get
Speaker 1: really good or in your flying career really fast. And
Speaker 1: uh I got I got a lot better in a
Speaker 1: in a very short period of time. Yeah. I would
Speaker 1: imagine that that flying that many real world missions. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just fantastic. But you know, it's one of those things
Speaker 1: that if you'd asked me, I probably wouldn't have selected
Speaker 1: going there because, you know, to me, flying and the
Speaker 1: division would have been you know, formation flights and and
Speaker 1: supporting the ground ground force units. But in the end,
Speaker 1: I think from a gaining experienced perspective, it was a
Speaker 1: really good first assignment. That's awesome. How did you end
Speaker 1: up with one sixty, Well, it's I first heard about
Speaker 1: the one six in Korea, and at the time, like
Speaker 1: a lot of other special offs units, you know, people
Speaker 1: kind of knew they existed, but there wasn't a lot
Speaker 1: in the in the public domain. Uh, it was mostly
Speaker 1: you know, just bar talk about, hey, there's this unit
Speaker 1: that was stood up to to support these other special units,
Speaker 1: and they got really you know, cutting edge technology and
Speaker 1: their aircraft, and they got you know, they're they're operating
Speaker 1: with some of the most elite units in the world.
Speaker 1: And I'd read a lot of Tom Clancy books. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'll just be perfectly honest, and that that's probably what
Speaker 1: hooked me. You know, I mean to be uh, you know,
Speaker 1: like a Jack Ryan type or just you know it
Speaker 1: work with people like that. I thought, you know, that's
Speaker 1: got to be next level. And it really was. I mean,
Speaker 1: it wasn't a disappointment. So when I got my orders
Speaker 1: to leave Korea and go to Fort Campbell, I thought, well,
Speaker 1: this is perfect. I'll just show up there, I'll sign in,
Speaker 1: I'll go talk to the one and see if they'll
Speaker 1: take me. I didn't realize is that the hundred first
Speaker 1: and or two distinct organizations, and I had signed in
Speaker 1: the hundred first, and at that point I was kind
Speaker 1: of committed to two years in the hundred first, which
Speaker 1: is again great experience that it was good for me.
Speaker 1: It worked out better in the end because I got
Speaker 1: more flight time, I got more night vision goggle time.
Speaker 1: I went to the instructor pilot course while I was
Speaker 1: in the hundred first so when I two years later
Speaker 1: was able to actually assess for the one, I was
Speaker 1: in a from aviation maturity level, much much better prepared. Excellent. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a quick story about the we We used to do
Speaker 1: a lot of exercises with the one sixtieth in the
Speaker 1: range of regiment and uh, we were doing a big
Speaker 1: one and then we had a night off and you know,
Speaker 1: we were just kind of chilling out and the major
Speaker 1: in charge of the unit from the I can't remember
Speaker 1: his name now, but I still have the coin he gave.
Speaker 1: So he him up to me and he was like, Hey,
Speaker 1: we're going on a check ride. We got some new
Speaker 1: envy g's. You want to go do some flying in
Speaker 1: a little bird. So I'm like sure. So you know
Speaker 1: when you're young, Hey, you can't get enough of that, right.
Speaker 1: So I'm sitting It was just me and the pilots.
Speaker 1: So I'm sitting outside on the little bird. They gave
Speaker 1: me a helmet with the envy gs and he's like,
Speaker 1: leave them up. So it was pitch black and we're
Speaker 1: zipping along. I can't see a blessed thing, you know,
Speaker 1: pitch start and then so we're flying along and I
Speaker 1: could feel dampness. So he's like, can you see anything?
Speaker 1: Because I'm talking to him on the I said, I
Speaker 1: can't see a thing. He's like, flipped down your envy
Speaker 1: g's And then both pilots were staring at me because
Speaker 1: I literally jumped out of my skin. We're about maybe
Speaker 1: four fifteen inches over a river and we were just
Speaker 1: zipping along the river and when I put the MVS
Speaker 1: down here, of course, your first thought is we're gonna
Speaker 1: crash the wall. And they were both laughing and they
Speaker 1: were like, what do you think? And I was like, man,
Speaker 1: you can really see good in these And that was
Speaker 1: the you know that that next generation, and you know,
Speaker 1: we zipped around all night. We had an absolute blast
Speaker 1: and that's you know, we flew with them quite a
Speaker 1: few times. But I'll always remember that because that was
Speaker 1: a kind of like a personal ride for me in
Speaker 1: a little bird and that's uh, that's flying at the
Speaker 1: edge right there. Yeah, for sure, So can can you
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's difficult to talk about, but
Speaker 1: you know the mission that you were shot down, and
Speaker 1: can you relay some of that to our listen. Sure,
Speaker 1: you know, one thing I like to point out, which
Speaker 1: I think is true of many military organizations in general,
Speaker 1: but certainly soft units, is that when when the mission
Speaker 1: goes well, it gets buried in in some arcives somewhere
Speaker 1: and no one ever knows about it. And there are
Speaker 1: thousands of missions that have gone well, and it's only
Speaker 1: the ones where you know, something doesn't go exactly the
Speaker 1: way it was supposed to go, and the media gets
Speaker 1: involved that you know, suddenly you know, everybody knows about it.
Speaker 1: And you know, you could you could say that about
Speaker 1: Desert One. You could say that about and I would
Speaker 1: argue Smalley, I personally believe it was a tactical success.
Speaker 1: It was a political failure. Uh. You know, the lost
Speaker 1: bird in the in the compound in Pakistan, with the
Speaker 1: bin laden rate. I mean, those are things that happened
Speaker 1: when people were operating at the very edge of the envelope.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, when you operate at the edge
Speaker 1: of the envelope for night after night after night, like
Speaker 1: like our brothers have been doing or still doing really
Speaker 1: in Iraq and we're doing in Afghanistan. You know, for
Speaker 1: two decades, I mean, every now and then something's gonna
Speaker 1: go wrong. And and you know, that's what I would
Speaker 1: say about Somalia. You know, I was involved in just
Speaker 1: cause went really well. The incredibly complex mission and when
Speaker 1: we think about the joint exercises that we would do,
Speaker 1: airfield seizures, all that stuff. I mean, Panama was a
Speaker 1: textbook example of all of that happening simultaneously. Uh, and
Speaker 1: it went almost without a hitch. I mean, there were
Speaker 1: a few things that happened, you know, we did, uh
Speaker 1: the aircraft with Curtain News on it got crashed in
Speaker 1: the in the street, but in the end he got
Speaker 1: out and and uh, you know, everything went as planned.
Speaker 1: So the point of all that is there's so much
Speaker 1: flawless execution that occurs that never gets talked about, and
Speaker 1: unfortunately the high profile things where maybe it didn't go
Speaker 1: quite as well as we wanted to do, get talked
Speaker 1: about it. And that's kind of the way I see Somalia. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, we have done six missions up to that point,
Speaker 1: all six of those have gone really well. Three day,
Speaker 1: three night, we had captured close to thirty guys. I
Speaker 1: mean today we call them terrorists. At the time, they
Speaker 1: weren't called terrorists. They were called you know, clan leadership.
Speaker 1: They were part of hobber Getter clan that we were
Speaker 1: trying to basically neutralize. You know, they were the ones
Speaker 1: that were causing the problems in country. And uh, the
Speaker 1: the leader, Mohammad far Aded was the ultimate prize. We
Speaker 1: had captured the number two guy, guy named Osman Otto,
Speaker 1: on a day mission not long before October three. So
Speaker 1: I mean, we're you know, the wheels are turning here.
Speaker 1: We're really doing well. We had lost any birds, no people,
Speaker 1: few injuries, but that's gonna happen in this kind of thing.
Speaker 1: And then October three rolls around, and you know, I
Speaker 1: was a flight leader, so I'm right in the jock
Speaker 1: when the decision is getting made about this. It's not
Speaker 1: my decision, but I'm there, and and we were aware
Speaker 1: of the risks, and you know I always point, at
Speaker 1: least from my air side. It's in the worst part
Speaker 1: of town, place called the Black Sea, where all the
Speaker 1: bad guys hang out. It's a daytime operation. We know,
Speaker 1: you know, we can't use a lot of our advantage
Speaker 1: that we have with our night vision gear and everything
Speaker 1: in a day daytime op. There's no landing zones, so
Speaker 1: we can't we can't land the heloes. We got a
Speaker 1: faster rope end, we've got an extract by vehicle. And
Speaker 1: it's the seventh time we've done one of these in
Speaker 1: the same city. So you you know, anyone who's been
Speaker 1: in the military knows it's like sports, right. You can't
Speaker 1: run the football seven times in a row up the middle.
Speaker 1: You know, at the five yard line, the defense is
Speaker 1: going to start to adapt, and that's what you know.
Speaker 1: Military adversaries do the same thing. So I think all
Speaker 1: those things combined elevated the risk on this one for sure.
Speaker 1: But I can say walking out of that operations center,
Speaker 1: I didn't disagree with the decision to go. I mean,
Speaker 1: the risk factors were up. I always say I felt
Speaker 1: comfortable enough. Um, you know, I've also thought over the years,
Speaker 1: if you're totally comfortable going in to the bad guy's
Speaker 1: backyard and punching them in the face, then maybe you've
Speaker 1: been doing it too long because you should be, you know,
Speaker 1: not totally comfortable this. You know they're they're shooting at you,
Speaker 1: you know, so, but you know, we all operated under
Speaker 1: the big sky. A little bullet theory kind of put
Speaker 1: that off to the side and just do our jobs.
Speaker 1: But you know, going in there, we kind of knew
Speaker 1: this was not not going to be quite as straightforward
Speaker 1: as all the others. And and you know, the first
Speaker 1: real indication of that was the first aircraft shotdown. That
Speaker 1: was Super six one, Cliff Walcott Donovan Briley's aircraft. They
Speaker 1: had uh a few Delta operators on board, uh somewhere
Speaker 1: injured badly, some not so badly. Crew chiefs survived, but donno, uh,
Speaker 1: Donovan and Cliff were killed when the aircraft hit the ground.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know at that point, of course, I
Speaker 1: didn't know it. All I knew is they were they
Speaker 1: went down, and we called in the search and rescue
Speaker 1: bird it went in. We knew that wasn't a good idea.
Speaker 1: We had talked about it a few days prior. We
Speaker 1: had actually requested a tank because everything was within about
Speaker 1: two miles of the airfield. So in our minds, if
Speaker 1: we use a tank for search and rescue, seems unorthodox.
Speaker 1: But when you really look at the tacticle situation, using
Speaker 1: a tank is that is the is very elegant solution
Speaker 1: because it's not gonna be harmed by small arms. Fire.
Speaker 1: It can move pretty quickly through the streets. You know.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's the perfect vehicle. So we had asked
Speaker 1: for that, it had been turned, it had been denied.
Speaker 1: So what is the commander supposed to do? Right? I mean,
Speaker 1: you you're forced to use the things you're you're left,
Speaker 1: uh in your kit bag. So we set the search
Speaker 1: and rescue bird in and it got shot down. Luckily
Speaker 1: not it didn't crash, but limped its way back to
Speaker 1: the airfield. Uh. We still have people hanging on the
Speaker 1: ropes when that aircraft got hit. Um, but they all
Speaker 1: did what they were supposed to do, kept the aircraft
Speaker 1: in in position and got everybody on the ground. That
Speaker 1: search and rescue team got to six one site. In
Speaker 1: the meantime, commander calls me and asked me to come
Speaker 1: replace six one over the target. So we roll in
Speaker 1: and we had already gone into target because I had
Speaker 1: twenty two rangers part of a blocking force that we're
Speaker 1: on my bird, and we put them in in one
Speaker 1: of the corners around on the perimeter, and so we're
Speaker 1: we just have the crew on board and we're gonna
Speaker 1: go with the mini guns and try to get in
Speaker 1: close and provide uh close in fire support while things
Speaker 1: get wrapped up on the ground and the ground convoy
Speaker 1: links up with the assault force and then gets everybody
Speaker 1: out of there. Well, you know, things that heated up
Speaker 1: quite a bit. I mean, you've already had two black
Speaker 1: Hawks shotdown and uh, I mean we didn't make it
Speaker 1: around the target probably four times, and we got hit
Speaker 1: by an RPG. Uh. You know, it's still daytime, so
Speaker 1: you know, I always tell people it wasn't like the
Speaker 1: beach scene in Saving Private Ryan, where there's flak everywhere.
Speaker 1: You know, just it's hard to see tracers in the
Speaker 1: bright in the bright sunlight and RPGs unless you see
Speaker 1: the launch. There's not really much of a contrail, you know,
Speaker 1: so you might see it. You're gonna see it explode
Speaker 1: if it explodes near you. But a lot of times
Speaker 1: they're just you know, they're going through there and you
Speaker 1: don't even know they're there. Well, this one hit us
Speaker 1: in the tail. It blew the tail roader completely apart.
Speaker 1: Are disintegrated, and uh, you know, you don't have to
Speaker 1: be a helicopter expert to know that's probably not a
Speaker 1: good thing. It was. It was the worst profile you
Speaker 1: could be in low altitude, low air speed. Uh, no
Speaker 1: tail rotor, and the only thing you can do is
Speaker 1: shut the engines off. So we did, which is not
Speaker 1: a good thing either, and uh we crashed. Uh. I
Speaker 1: was flying. Uh uh this sort of a mix between
Speaker 1: flying and surviving because you know, this thing is not
Speaker 1: flying like a regular helicopter at this point. It's spinning
Speaker 1: out of control and all I was trying to do
Speaker 1: is keep it from flipping upside down, which I somehow
Speaker 1: managed to do. But I never saw the ground coming.
Speaker 1: So I mean we hit really hard. I mean so hard.
Speaker 1: You know, you've probably seen the pilot seats in the
Speaker 1: black Hawk. They have crash attenuation and basically big shock absorbers.
Speaker 1: Those all went all the way to the bottom and
Speaker 1: then broke off. My femur broken two on the way down.
Speaker 1: My vertebrae were crushed in the you know from the
Speaker 1: vertical g forces. Crew chiefs or hurt worse than that.
Speaker 1: My copilot, Ray Frank, was injured similar to my injuries.
Speaker 1: And uh, and then the aircraft did what it was
Speaker 1: supposed to do, which is uh, the engines shut off
Speaker 1: because the fuel lines all broke away as designed. You know,
Speaker 1: one of the things about modern technologies. We we learned
Speaker 1: a lot from experiences like Vietnam and since and making
Speaker 1: these machines better, more survivable, and and it all worked
Speaker 1: as advertised. That the fuel lines broke off in the
Speaker 1: self seal, so I didn't leak, there was no fire,
Speaker 1: And when I woke up, it's like someone had shut
Speaker 1: the aircraft down. I mean, it's it's just sitting there.
Speaker 1: Blades are stationary, but I'm obviously, you know, I know
Speaker 1: something's really wrong here. I'm kind of sitting in a hole.
Speaker 1: There's debris through the windshield. I get rid of that,
Speaker 1: and I had my MP five in the cockpit and
Speaker 1: I picked it up, and you know, there's not much
Speaker 1: else you can do. You just just decide to, you know,
Speaker 1: fight it out the best you can. And at that time,
Speaker 1: most grageous men I've ever known, Randy Sugar and Gary
Speaker 1: Gordon arrived at the side of the cockpit. I didn't
Speaker 1: I didn't see where they came from. I had no
Speaker 1: idea how they got there. But all of a sudden
Speaker 1: they're standing there. And they were not personal friends, but
Speaker 1: I didn't know them from you know, we've been together
Speaker 1: on test MOR's Ranger now for a couple of months
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, my mind, wow, this is they're
Speaker 1: already here. I don't know how in the world has happened.
Speaker 1: But good to see you guys, you know. And they
Speaker 1: weren't talking. They were you know, it's all mission at
Speaker 1: this point for for those guys. And they got me
Speaker 1: out of the aircraft, put me on the ground, gave
Speaker 1: me my weapon, and uh went to try to defend
Speaker 1: the site and find a way to get us out
Speaker 1: of there. And uh, unfortunately we were surrounded and there
Speaker 1: was there was probably hundreds of Somalis and uh, I
Speaker 1: think the movie shows that scene fairly well. Actually outside
Speaker 1: of it shows me shooting from the cockpit. I did
Speaker 1: not shoot from the cockpit. I was about to, but
Speaker 1: I never did, but did a lot of shooting on
Speaker 1: the ground, and as did Randy and Gary. And then uh,
Speaker 1: just I mean you're just outnumbered. I mean, there's nothing
Speaker 1: you can do when you're up against that many enemy.
Speaker 1: And uh, and then we got overrun. Yeah. I was
Speaker 1: gonna ask you, you know, I've read the book, I've
Speaker 1: seen the movie. I was gonna ask you how realistic
Speaker 1: or close to the truth that was? You know what
Speaker 1: I've always said it's accurate enough. Um, it's not perfect.
Speaker 1: There's you know, little things like this person did something
Speaker 1: that actually another person did, but most of the things
Speaker 1: in the movie are are fairly accurately portrayed. And then
Speaker 1: after they you know, we're we're killed by the Somali crowd.
Speaker 1: You were taken captive. I can't imagine what was going
Speaker 1: through your mind at that point where the crushed fine
Speaker 1: and a broken leg. It's not like you can eat
Speaker 1: any right. Uh. You know, I had gone to survival school,
Speaker 1: as we spoke about earlier, and you know, we can't
Speaker 1: really get into what's taught there. But but at that
Speaker 1: point I did make a decision in my head that
Speaker 1: this is now survival. I mean, it's this fight is over.
Speaker 1: I can't win this fight by myself. I was out
Speaker 1: of ammunition. Uh, they're all over me, and now you
Speaker 1: gotta do what they teach you to do to survive.
Speaker 1: And and it worked. I mean, you know, I've been
Speaker 1: back to the survival school. It's been a while now,
Speaker 1: but they have it all on video and and and
Speaker 1: I'm sure they still use some of it in the curriculum. Uh,
Speaker 1: what they taught worked and you know, I'm not suggesting
Speaker 1: it would work in every situation, but it actually it worked.
Speaker 1: Almost everything they taught me worked in mind, So I
Speaker 1: not only owe my life to Gary and Randy, but
Speaker 1: to the you know, that training and the and the
Speaker 1: instructors that provided that for me. Yeah, it's not a
Speaker 1: fun school, but it's a great school. That's the way
Speaker 1: when people ask me about Sear School, that's the only
Speaker 1: way to describe describe it. Yeah. I always said I
Speaker 1: put it only second only to Flight School in terms
Speaker 1: of experiences that I've had in the military. Uh. And
Speaker 1: you know, at the end, like you said, Man, I'm
Speaker 1: glad that's over, But it was it was really really good. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And what was it like for you when you were
Speaker 1: finally released and now you're back with you know, the
Speaker 1: guys in the unit and the Delta guys, Delta guys.
Speaker 1: It was it was somewhat surreal. You know. One of
Speaker 1: the things they they do teach us, you know, be
Speaker 1: very cautious about, you know, what you believe is happening
Speaker 1: versus what's really happening. And don't you know, just just
Speaker 1: be cautious, I guess is the best way to characterize it.
Speaker 1: And I think when I first realized that this is
Speaker 1: real is when the Red Cross doctor showed up and
Speaker 1: he had morphine, you know, because it's been eleven days
Speaker 1: with those injuries, and I'm telling you it was it
Speaker 1: was bad. Uh and uh that that made it all
Speaker 1: go away, and uh when I went through the gates
Speaker 1: of the compound, it was you know, I can't describe
Speaker 1: it just And again, I didn't know about the losses
Speaker 1: we took. I mean, I knew we took losses, but
Speaker 1: I didn't know about how many there were, or the
Speaker 1: horrific things that had happened in the aftermath. So, you know,
Speaker 1: over the next few days, I had some major major
Speaker 1: emotional events when you know, I found out Cliff and Donovan.
Speaker 1: The only reason I knew that they were killed is
Speaker 1: all the guys came over when I was in the
Speaker 1: in the surgical unit there and I'm looking around, and
Speaker 1: I said, where's Cliff and Donovan? And you know, they
Speaker 1: basically broke down. The commander broke down a just a
Speaker 1: good guy, good heart, you know, tears in his eyes,
Speaker 1: saying you know they were they were killed, and you know,
Speaker 1: after everything else, you find out that it's even worse.
Speaker 1: Than you thought. You know, it was, it was pretty rough.
Speaker 1: And then you know, with what happened to uh, to
Speaker 1: the remains of my crew and Gary and Randy by
Speaker 1: the crowd is something I found out even later, and
Speaker 1: something I still can't really get my head around how
Speaker 1: people could be that in in human I suppose it's
Speaker 1: the right way to describe that. Yeah, I remember I
Speaker 1: was in South America at the time, and we were
Speaker 1: working with some of your other guys, and we were
Speaker 1: doing counter narcotic stuff and we started seeing all the
Speaker 1: newspapers with the pictures in there, and it was horrifying
Speaker 1: and well, I may a lot of people angry. I
Speaker 1: can tell you that, you know it's uh and and
Speaker 1: you know, you know how we all feel about each
Speaker 1: other when you see something like that done to your
Speaker 1: your brothers in arms. I mean, that's uh, that's hard.
Speaker 1: It's hard to see. So, um, you finished up twenty
Speaker 1: two years in the in the military, and then so
Speaker 1: now now you're you're moving on. I know you started
Speaker 1: your own company, but now you're moving on and you're
Speaker 1: running for office. What what what made you decide to
Speaker 1: try this? Well? Is this is a series of things, really, Um,
Speaker 1: I suppose it all started when President Biden won the election.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's good for the country. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't care which side you're on to think that
Speaker 1: that's the best that one of the parties can put forward.
Speaker 1: That's pretty that's pretty disheartening. I mean, he is the
Speaker 1: ultimate example of a career politician. I mean, he has
Speaker 1: never lived in the real world. He doesn't understand the
Speaker 1: implications of his decisions. I mean, every single thing he's
Speaker 1: done is wrong. And and you know, like many Americans,
Speaker 1: I've sat here and watched this happen. The real over
Speaker 1: the top moment was Afghanistan. Uh. And there have been
Speaker 1: other since. You know, the southern border UH, vaccine mandates,
Speaker 1: you know, paying people who came through the border illegally
Speaker 1: four d dollars apiece. That's the latest ridiculous idea that
Speaker 1: I've read about lately. Uh. Just I mean, and so
Speaker 1: I met this point in my business career where the
Speaker 1: company's doing great. I got good people working for me,
Speaker 1: I got good people above me on the board. I
Speaker 1: was kind of planning to start phasing out now. Anyway,
Speaker 1: our youngest is a senior in high school, transitioning ownership
Speaker 1: to the employees actually through a program called an stop that. UH.
Speaker 1: If if anyone is not familiar with that, you should
Speaker 1: look it up. It's an amazing thing. Uh. And and
Speaker 1: really really a win win for the for the founders
Speaker 1: and for the employees. And so all that was underway anyway,
Speaker 1: and then Richard Shelby's retiring. I mean, what what what
Speaker 1: you want to do is take on uh an incumbent
Speaker 1: senator you know that's been there for you know, multiple terms.
Speaker 1: That's a tough win. But this is a vacancy, and
Speaker 1: the candidates that were in the run are just more
Speaker 1: career politicians, and that is not what Alabama needs, and
Speaker 1: that is not what the country needs. We've got to
Speaker 1: have somebody that knows the difference between right and wrong,
Speaker 1: and career politicians really struggle with that. All they know
Speaker 1: is what's going to further their political careers. That's that's
Speaker 1: the world they grew up in. That's what what drives
Speaker 1: their thought process. Whereas you know, somebody like us that's
Speaker 1: lived in the real world, we know what's right and wrong.
Speaker 1: You know, for me, I basically have two resumes to
Speaker 1: their zero. You know that they've got a career politician resume,
Speaker 1: which is zero when it comes to making the right decisions.
Speaker 1: I got a military resume and I got a business
Speaker 1: owner resume, both, so I know, you know how decisions
Speaker 1: affect both of those uh constituents or or bases or
Speaker 1: you know, part part of what I represent as a
Speaker 1: senator from Alabama. So uh, it's winnable. I'm at the
Speaker 1: right point in my life. Somebody's got to step up,
Speaker 1: and I can't waste my shot. I mean, that's that's
Speaker 1: what got me in the race. And do you live
Speaker 1: in Huntsville though? Is that I do? Uh? In Huntsville
Speaker 1: actually just became the largest city in Alabama. We Uh,
Speaker 1: we've been fortunate that, you know, great leadership here in
Speaker 1: the area. Uh. They had a Brack committee that you know,
Speaker 1: set us up for success. And each time there's been
Speaker 1: a a brack and a realigning of you know, where
Speaker 1: where organizations go. Uh, we've fared really well. And now
Speaker 1: the Space Force is coming here also, So I mean
Speaker 1: we are set up for success here in North Alabama,
Speaker 1: but you know the rest of the state is as important,
Speaker 1: and that's gonna be my task going forward is to
Speaker 1: get out there and eat with folks from you know,
Speaker 1: Mobile to Montgomery to Birmingham to Tuscaloosa and everywhere in between. Uh,
Speaker 1: to understand what their issues are and make sure that
Speaker 1: I represent the entire state. And have you been getting
Speaker 1: out there and meeting the people. Ground war? The ground
Speaker 1: war just started. We started with an air war because
Speaker 1: I've only been in the campaign a week and a half,
Speaker 1: so uh, the initial focuses on the air campaign and UH,
Speaker 1: and now we're starting the ground campaign. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: will be uh pretty much booked for the next seven
Speaker 1: months going around and meeting with people and getting I
Speaker 1: think I know, I mean, Alabama is a red state.
Speaker 1: I think I know people are generally conservative. I understand
Speaker 1: generally what the issues are, but there are regional issues
Speaker 1: that I want to make sure I I know as
Speaker 1: well as I can so that I can represent appropriately.
Speaker 1: Is there any issues you'd like to discuss and talk
Speaker 1: about with our readers and you know, tell them what
Speaker 1: you're assionate about, what you're passionate about. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: let's let's circle back on Afghanistan. I'm still in shock, honestly,
Speaker 1: you know, when when like in in my role in
Speaker 1: business or in the execution of a military operation, if
Speaker 1: if you set a plan in motion and then something happens,
Speaker 1: you shift to a contingency, right, or you reassess, or
Speaker 1: you you know, you tap the brakes and you figure out,
Speaker 1: all right, so this didn't go exactly the way we
Speaker 1: thought it was gonna go. You know, let's adjust fire.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's just human nature for us who've
Speaker 1: done tactical planning or run a business. So you look
Speaker 1: at Afghanistan and Joe Biden sets this timeline for us
Speaker 1: to withdraw, and you start to see province by province
Speaker 1: the Taliban taking over, and instead of tapping the brakes
Speaker 1: and saying, well, okay, there's not quite the stability we
Speaker 1: thought there was going to be here, Perhaps we need
Speaker 1: to relook this, he does the opposite, doubles down and
Speaker 1: basically tries to get the Afghan leadership to stay quiet
Speaker 1: on the fact that the Taliban is basically taking over
Speaker 1: so that it doesn't hurt him politically. You know, it
Speaker 1: just it goes beyond my ability to comprehend the fact
Speaker 1: that he cannot appreciate we we were in Afghanistan for
Speaker 1: almost twenty years, more than four thousand lives lost. Many
Speaker 1: of those contractors many of those active duty personnel, and
Speaker 1: he is throwing it away. Well, he threw it away
Speaker 1: along with all the assets. But quite frankly, compared to
Speaker 1: the lives and the sacrifice, the assets are meaningless. And
Speaker 1: he threw it all away for for what I call
Speaker 1: a sound bite him he wanted to be able to
Speaker 1: say I got us out of Afghanistan before the twentieth
Speaker 1: anniversary or nine eleven. For that, he gave it all away,
Speaker 1: not even counting on the concluding the fact that we
Speaker 1: had a strategic presence in a very sophisticated air field
Speaker 1: in a country that borders Pakistan, in China and Iran.
Speaker 1: I mean, how much more strategic can you get than that,
Speaker 1: you know, And and we hadn't lost an active duty
Speaker 1: person in a year. All we had to do is
Speaker 1: stop calling it a war, just you know, continue to
Speaker 1: train the Afghans. Actually, my company was involved in training
Speaker 1: some of the Afghan maintainers. You know, you can't teach
Speaker 1: someone who worked on Russian aircraft, if they even worked
Speaker 1: on Russian aircraft, how to maintain a black Hawk in
Speaker 1: you know, in six months. I mean, it takes a
Speaker 1: long time. You have to groom them to do the
Speaker 1: introductory level tasks than the more advanced tasks. You know,
Speaker 1: once we committed to helping them stand up this capability,
Speaker 1: we have to commit. I mean our allies were committed,
Speaker 1: they were sort of left standing there Where did the
Speaker 1: US go, you know, along with US citizens Afghans who
Speaker 1: helped support the cause. I mean, it was just an
Speaker 1: absolute travesty. So you know that that is one of
Speaker 1: the issues we need to make sure we we find
Speaker 1: who is accountable here. We had general officers who testified
Speaker 1: recently that they told him this was going to happen,
Speaker 1: and he ignored it. I mean, we have to hold
Speaker 1: somebody accountable. There is too much that was sacrificed and
Speaker 1: earned that was thrown away for just just just to
Speaker 1: be kind of buried in history. We cannot allow foreign
Speaker 1: policy policy decisions like that to go on unchecked. The
Speaker 1: vaccine mandates is the next one. You know, I got
Speaker 1: the vaccine. I didn't want to get it. I really didn't.
Speaker 1: I had COVID. It was not a big deal for me.
Speaker 1: I know it is for some, but it wasn't for me.
Speaker 1: Uh So I should have some level of immunity. I
Speaker 1: mean that there's a debate about you know whether or
Speaker 1: not there is there isn't, But I felt like the
Speaker 1: risk of getting COVID again was not greater than what
Speaker 1: I view as uncertainty about the long term effects of
Speaker 1: the vaccine. Now everyone's opinion is different on this. You know,
Speaker 1: some of that are super pro vaccine. I'm gonna tell
Speaker 1: you it's been tested. We know everything. We don't know everything.
Speaker 1: We do not know if that vaccine is going to
Speaker 1: have any effect on human bodies ten years down the road,
Speaker 1: twenty years down the road, We just don't know. It
Speaker 1: got pushed out pretty quick. It seems to be effective.
Speaker 1: So I got it now. I got it because I
Speaker 1: didn't want to be responsible for, you know, disrupting any
Speaker 1: of our contracts or you know, spreading the virus here
Speaker 1: to any of our employees, spreading into my family. But
Speaker 1: that's a personal decision. To see the government require vaccinations
Speaker 1: to keep your job is ridiculous, I mean, and I
Speaker 1: just don't feel like enough of our elected officials are
Speaker 1: pushing back on this hard enough. And again why because
Speaker 1: they've never run a business, they don't understand how important
Speaker 1: it is to keep your employees. I mean, think about
Speaker 1: the issues we have right now, with with labor, and
Speaker 1: now you're forcing me to terminate someone who wants to work,
Speaker 1: who's qualified to work, who's experienced, and may not want
Speaker 1: to get the vaccine for religious or health reasons, and
Speaker 1: I gotta fire him. I mean it is is just
Speaker 1: again an example of people making decisions that have not
Speaker 1: lived in the real world. I mean I had three
Speaker 1: people come to me last night. We did a fundraiser here.
Speaker 1: One guy they turned his badge off. He can't go
Speaker 1: to work. Another guy's an engineer, he's gonna be looking
Speaker 1: for work in two weeks. I said, come work for us.
Speaker 1: I mean, you fill out an exemption where you're you
Speaker 1: attested the fact that this is against your religious beliefs,
Speaker 1: and we'll take you. Uh. It's just amazing to me.
Speaker 1: As defense contractors, we cannot even let people work from home.
Speaker 1: I mean it's completely illogical. We can't take a testing option,
Speaker 1: we can't let them work from home. We can't even
Speaker 1: work in the same If you share an elevator with
Speaker 1: someone who works on a defense contract and you're not vaccinated,
Speaker 1: your subject to a seven thousand dollar five per incident.
Speaker 1: I mean it goes on and on. I'm in total
Speaker 1: agreement with you there. I I have great uh great,
Speaker 1: what's the correct word. I have apprehensions about the long
Speaker 1: term effects on this, but I like you, I got
Speaker 1: the vaccine, my whole family did. If you're asking me,
Speaker 1: do I believe in it? In it, I'm kind of
Speaker 1: on the fence on that one. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: I don't believe that they should mandage everyone. Get that.
Speaker 1: I mean, with with no testing option and no work
Speaker 1: from home option. That's ridiculous. Yes, I mean, I mean
Speaker 1: you've got people that would say, look, if I don't
Speaker 1: have to have the vaccine, I'll test every day if
Speaker 1: you want me to, and what would be wrong with that?
Speaker 1: But they're they're not letting us even do that. It's
Speaker 1: just ludicrous. Yeah, I don't understand it. Yeah. So you
Speaker 1: know this all feeds into what's motivating Mike to want
Speaker 1: to get in and do something. You know. I just
Speaker 1: I say this honestly, that's why I started Pannacle. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to be you know, seventy five and looking
Speaker 1: back at my life and that seeing you know, this
Speaker 1: this junction in my life where I could have done
Speaker 1: something and I did, and you know, maybe everything will
Speaker 1: be fine. Without me, But I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: and and can I make a difference. The only way
Speaker 1: I'm ever gonna know is to get in the fight.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, my goal is to move the needle.
Speaker 1: I can't save the world, but I can move the needle.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, with a few other folks doing
Speaker 1: the same thing, we can we can turn this thing around.
Speaker 1: And so is there any other issues you'd like to
Speaker 1: discuss while we got the time. Well, I mean I'm conservative,
Speaker 1: so you know it's all the what I would call
Speaker 1: the the standard con you know, Republican conservative positions on
Speaker 1: the Second Amendment, First Amendment, Second Amendment. I am pro life.
Speaker 1: You know, I know that that is a real flashpoint
Speaker 1: with a lot of people. Uh, if you are pro life,
Speaker 1: I think you look at the other side and you
Speaker 1: can't reconcile the fact that this is an unborn child.
Speaker 1: I mean, if if you know, six months later you
Speaker 1: did to this child what you're saying you're going to
Speaker 1: do now, you'd be tried for murder. So you know,
Speaker 1: there's a there's a scientific argument, there's a medical argument,
Speaker 1: there's a an ethical argument or religious argument, and it's
Speaker 1: a complex issue. But as a as a father who
Speaker 1: raised six kids, to think that, you know, somewhere along
Speaker 1: the way, we we would have made a decision for
Speaker 1: whatever reason, to uh, to abort any of these kids.
Speaker 1: I can't even I can't even get my head around that.
Speaker 1: So I think if people really thought about it in
Speaker 1: those terms, they probably second guest this, you know, a
Speaker 1: woman's right to choose. I respect women. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is not anything against women and their role in the workplace,
Speaker 1: in society and everything else. But you know, biologically they
Speaker 1: are the ones who carry the children, and you know
Speaker 1: it is in the end, you know, for them to decide.
Speaker 1: But all I can say is I I wish that
Speaker 1: more of them would look at this, you know, step
Speaker 1: back and forget about their rights and think about that
Speaker 1: on board child's rights. So so that's one um uh.
Speaker 1: You know. The illegal immigration, that's another hot button issue
Speaker 1: for sure. And I think where things getting mixed up
Speaker 1: here is that people forget about the word illegal. They
Speaker 1: think they focus on immigration. Someone did it today. I
Speaker 1: did an interview earlier on the radio, and and they
Speaker 1: brought up the topic of immigration. No one's against immigration.
Speaker 1: I mean, please come to this country and and and
Speaker 1: be a citizen, but please do it legally. You know,
Speaker 1: we we have a process we're asking you to follow it.
Speaker 1: If you come in here illegally, we don't want that
Speaker 1: because we don't know who you are. We haven't vetted you,
Speaker 1: and you're not in the system. So many don't pay taxes.
Speaker 1: Yet there's still a burden on society. And and there's
Speaker 1: there's nothing un American about asking people who want to
Speaker 1: be American citizens to do so legally. And you know,
Speaker 1: we are blessed and that we have the oceans that
Speaker 1: protect us on you know, left and right. Where we're
Speaker 1: vulnerable obviously is in the northern border, in the southern border,
Speaker 1: and most of the focuses on the southern border. Uh.
Speaker 1: The only way that we can truly seal that off
Speaker 1: is with a wall. And I think people get wrapped
Speaker 1: around the axle about the wall, like you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's anti immigration. It's not anti immigration. It's controlling the
Speaker 1: flow of immigrants through a a weak point in our perimeter.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about it from a tactical perspective,
Speaker 1: and it's the right thing to do. And I think
Speaker 1: that needs to get put back on track. We got
Speaker 1: to support our border patrol agencies. You know, the fact
Speaker 1: that you got a border patrol agent on a horse
Speaker 1: that looks angry shouldn't become this political flash point. You
Speaker 1: know that guys trying to do his job and and
Speaker 1: you know those jobs are hard. People don't realize when
Speaker 1: you're in law enforcement, you're in the military, your border patrol,
Speaker 1: you get faced with some tough situations and and you know,
Speaker 1: your training kicks in and you're everything kicks in, and
Speaker 1: sometimes mistakes are made. And you know, none of us
Speaker 1: are going to tell you that everybody executes to to
Speaker 1: to perfection. But boy, the liberals and Democrats and left
Speaker 1: wing people just jump on that like you know, we're
Speaker 1: we are uh you know, inhuman and uh, you know
Speaker 1: people are gonna pay for for that kind of behavior,
Speaker 1: when in fact, I don't know, I don't know what
Speaker 1: the scene was all about. It looked like a guy
Speaker 1: on a horse to me, you know. But they're trying
Speaker 1: to find any excuse they can to undermine everything that
Speaker 1: makes this country great, and we gotta stop it. And
Speaker 1: the good news is you just saw a governor's race
Speaker 1: in Virginia that proves even in a blue state, the
Speaker 1: majority of people in this country are still somewhat conservative.
Speaker 1: They do not want critical race theory taught. They do
Speaker 1: not want things taught to their children that they don't
Speaker 1: approve of. They want to have some say in it.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, this is most of America, and
Speaker 1: you know, if it happens in a place like that,
Speaker 1: you can guarantee it happens in a place like Alabama,
Speaker 1: where it's much more red and much more conservative. Well excellent, Yeah, Mike.
Speaker 1: I don't want to take up your whole afternoon, but
Speaker 1: we really appreciate your time and uh, you know, and
Speaker 1: we wish you all the best going forward with your campaign.
Speaker 1: Is there anything you'd like to finish up? Maybe a
Speaker 1: message to the voters out there and the people that
Speaker 1: are listening in. The people that are listening in, Well,
Speaker 1: I know you get a lot of vets that listen in,
Speaker 1: and you know I'm a Vet, but I do want
Speaker 1: to express my appreciation for the service of all veterans. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, I got a unique story, but the sacrifice
Speaker 1: is universal. We we all made it, and uh, thank
Speaker 1: you for that, because again, it's a big part of
Speaker 1: what's great about this country. People willing to sacrifice to
Speaker 1: to do what's right for the country. And then you know,
Speaker 1: from an election perspective, I need support. I need you know,
Speaker 1: people have their own social networks. Get the word out.
Speaker 1: We need people to vote in the primary in Alabama.
Speaker 1: The primary is probably going to decide who occupies this seat,
Speaker 1: and that's where the real race is. So you know
Speaker 1: a lot of people skip the primary. Please don't do that.
Speaker 1: Come out and uh and cast a vote for me.
Speaker 1: And if you want more information on on what I
Speaker 1: repre that in the campaign itself. The website is Mike
Speaker 1: Durant dot com. It's m I K. E. D U
Speaker 1: r A n T dot com. I really appreciate the
Speaker 1: opportunity to talk today, and uh, I wish you all
Speaker 1: very well. Well thanks Mike, and again maybe for somebody
Speaker 1: who's read your story, I feel like I already knew
Speaker 1: you a little bit and it was a pleasure to
Speaker 1: get to talk to you and meet you in person.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, if we're ever up in the
Speaker 1: Huntsville area, will check you out, all right, please do yes,
Speaker 1: someone down in Alabama we get more votes. Well, I
Speaker 1: lived down in the state of Florida now, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it was funny when you talk about immigration
Speaker 1: real quick. I spoke with someone a couple of months
Speaker 1: ago who was, uh, somebody who's going through the legal
Speaker 1: process of becoming a citizen, and he was very upset
Speaker 1: because it's taken him several years to do it the
Speaker 1: right way, and he, you know, it was quite upset
Speaker 1: about the way some people are just getting a free
Speaker 1: ticket inside inside, and and and and rightfully, so you know,
Speaker 1: I mean there's a sweet spot where it's you know,
Speaker 1: this is the right due diligence to go through to
Speaker 1: make sure that you know, this is a person we
Speaker 1: want living here in our country, sharing and all the
Speaker 1: greatness that this country has to offer. But it shouldn't
Speaker 1: take years. I agree with that. Al right, Well, we
Speaker 1: want to thank you for joining us today. We want
Speaker 1: to thank all our listeners for checking us out. We'll
Speaker 1: be back with another podcast here real soon. But from myself,
Speaker 1: Steve Balustralia, all of us here at Software Bradio, thank
Speaker 1: you to our guests, Mike Durant. We wish all the
Speaker 1: best going forward and we'll be back with another show
Speaker 1: in the very near You've been listening to self Red
Speaker 1: Radio