Speaker 1: On the Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best
Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bell cast. Somebody once told
Speaker 1: me the world wrong one. I know it's the wrong Shrek,
Speaker 1: but this this one also starts with a I feel
Speaker 1: like a very dated banger, though the like accidentally is
Speaker 1: pretty good. Who is that? Is that Counting Crows? Oh?
Speaker 1: That is who? That sounds like I just I just
Speaker 1: pulled that name out of my butt for the first
Speaker 1: time in fifteen years. It's certainly not smash Mouse. Why
Speaker 1: didn't they get to come back for Shrek too? I
Speaker 1: think that's the most popular criticism of Counting Crows is
Speaker 1: they're no smash Mouth. Yeah. I wonder if, like, maybe
Speaker 1: this is just like Headcannon. But what if Shrek two
Speaker 1: couldn't afford smash Mouth because Shrek one made smash Mouth
Speaker 1: so famous. Oh and they spent so much money of
Speaker 1: the Shrek to budget on did you see the pay
Speaker 1: bumps that like the three leads Mike Myers and Eddie
Speaker 1: Murphy so for the first movie, And I don't know
Speaker 1: if they all got paid the same. But I think
Speaker 1: it was like ballpark of like dollars for their voice
Speaker 1: acting work on Shrek one. For Shrek too, that's so
Speaker 1: much money, but I guess probably not a lot of
Speaker 1: money to them, right. For Shrek two, their salaries got
Speaker 1: bumped to ten million dollars. Oh my god, that is why,
Speaker 1: especially because they only need to work for like fifteen
Speaker 1: days in like a recording studio. It's not even like
Speaker 1: they're not even on set. It's like not like wonder
Speaker 1: Cameron Diaz retired. Also, yeah, the budget for this one
Speaker 1: is like two and a half times what the first
Speaker 1: one was made, but it looks exactly the same and
Speaker 1: it's basically the same story. So wild. Wow, I didn't
Speaker 1: know that. My favorite fun fact I learned about Shrek
Speaker 1: two is that it was nominated for the Palm Day
Speaker 1: or at It's like what hold the phone? I thought
Speaker 1: French people had taste and I was wrong. Well I
Speaker 1: didn't win. I wait, okay, let's find out who beat
Speaker 1: Shrek two for the I mean it had to have
Speaker 1: been a tight race, honey, Okay, I mean what came out?
Speaker 1: What else came out in two thousand four spider Man
Speaker 1: two two thousand four. Okay, Fahrenheit nine eleven beat Shrek
Speaker 1: two for the Palm. I was what a bizarro year
Speaker 1: at in can Wow? God? Okay, I was surprised it
Speaker 1: was nominated for the OSCAR for the Best Animated Feature
Speaker 1: because I feel like most of the Shreks were yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that tracks, but the pompt are threw me for a loop.
Speaker 1: Say wow, this is actually art. I was similarly baffled. Okay,
Speaker 1: so listeners, this is not only our Shrek two episode
Speaker 1: along awaited much requested people have been just knocking our
Speaker 1: door down. Yeah we got, we got docks. The people
Speaker 1: have been demanding for decades. When are you going to
Speaker 1: cover Shrek too? So it's that episode. It's also our
Speaker 1: five year anniversary episode. We've been doing the podcast for
Speaker 1: five years. That is so will we're different and yet
Speaker 1: we're the same. Yeah. I feel like we've really, like
Speaker 1: any good relationship, we've grown together. The show is growned
Speaker 1: with us. We got I mean, it's it is like, Wow,
Speaker 1: I was thinking about like our first episode came out
Speaker 1: and this was not intentional because we had the show
Speaker 1: in the works anyways, But the show did end up
Speaker 1: being released right after the election, like right after Yeah,
Speaker 1: and what a journey it's been. What a journey it's been.
Speaker 1: I feel like we've never not been in just like
Speaker 1: cultural societal turmoil since the podcast is started, between like
Speaker 1: that presidency and that now a World, yeah remember that
Speaker 1: one and m and then also this pandemic, it's just been,
Speaker 1: I mean, what a time. It really has been a
Speaker 1: wild ride, like in in a in a I mean
Speaker 1: not societally, maybe not in a good way, but I
Speaker 1: feel like it ended up being a very specifically relevant
Speaker 1: time to be having the conversations that we've I've been
Speaker 1: trying to have on the show. And I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm proud of us and we have and we also
Speaker 1: there's so much left to do. There's so much left
Speaker 1: to do. I also, I think a great way to
Speaker 1: track our growth was I listened to the Shrek one
Speaker 1: episode yesterday, No and so that one perfect no notes
Speaker 1: um that came out nearly four years ago, based almost
Speaker 1: like four years to the date ago, so we were
Speaker 1: like a year into doing the show. It was an
Speaker 1: interesting listen. It's been a really long time since I've
Speaker 1: listened back to an episode from that long ago. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I avoid it. It was excruciating. Okay, so here here's
Speaker 1: some things about the episode. Certainly we have demonstrably grown
Speaker 1: as movie analysts, as feminists, as just havers of discourse, Like,
Speaker 1: oh wow, our discussion was not very nuanced on the
Speaker 1: Shrek one episode. We were using a lot of able
Speaker 1: US language. Wait, we weren't nuanced in ten. I was
Speaker 1: curious about that. I was like, because I know that
Speaker 1: there's been so we've been educated and still have more
Speaker 1: to learn about, Like we've we've been educated so much
Speaker 1: by our listeners about language choices that we were making
Speaker 1: four years ago that we're not anymore. Yeah, which is
Speaker 1: like I'm listening to the old of this stuff. It
Speaker 1: turns out we don't age well sometimes. Um. Also, I'm
Speaker 1: doing a very nasally voice the entire time. And then
Speaker 1: also why bursting into just like goofy voices for nine
Speaker 1: of the episode. I don't know what I thought I
Speaker 1: was doing or most of blacked out that because I
Speaker 1: was just like, I don't remember you becoming a goofy
Speaker 1: voice connoisseur. I was goofy voicing all over the place.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I was making any of those choices. Also,
Speaker 1: the episode was very short by our standards because it
Speaker 1: was only it was like less than an hour long.
Speaker 1: It was like fifty seven minutes long or something like that.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's because we used to um, we
Speaker 1: used to like rent studio time too, so we had
Speaker 1: like more like restrictions on how long we could record.
Speaker 1: Where now we're just existing in cyber baby, right, I'm
Speaker 1: just sitting in my closet talking for two hours at
Speaker 1: a time. We got time baby. That that is. It
Speaker 1: is so bizarre to think about how much has changed
Speaker 1: in the world, how much has changed with the show,
Speaker 1: and so much of that is owed to our listeners
Speaker 1: in our community and are amazing guests who also I
Speaker 1: mean who also have educated us so absolutely and hopefully
Speaker 1: you if you're a listener of the show, if you're not,
Speaker 1: if this is oh what if this is your first
Speaker 1: time listening to the show? I you know what? What if?
Speaker 1: What if there's a Shrek to fan that's like, yes,
Speaker 1: you know what, start now and don't look back, don't
Speaker 1: listen to any earlier episodes, and certainly not the Shruk
Speaker 1: one episode. Well you can, you can start listening like
Speaker 1: two years ago. Yeah, I really feel like that's when
Speaker 1: we started to hit our stride. Yeah, we really uh
Speaker 1: came out of a fugue state and began having actual conversations. Look.
Speaker 1: And also it's like, I feel like podcasting is so
Speaker 1: different from when we started too, which is bizarre because
Speaker 1: it's only bed five years, but it just feels like
Speaker 1: it's grown and changed so much. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's so bizarre because we we truly started this as
Speaker 1: a pastime and now it's our full time job. Wow.
Speaker 1: Look at that. If you had told twenty fourteen Caitlin
Speaker 1: that in five or six years her full time job
Speaker 1: and life and all that stuff would be a podcast,
Speaker 1: Caitlin would be like, what are you talking about? I
Speaker 1: don't even listen to podcasts. I don't like them, blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. I would have been like, what like Cereal?
Speaker 1: I don't know like there, because that used to be
Speaker 1: famously the only podcast that anyone ever said it might
Speaker 1: have been the only one. It's impossible to know. I
Speaker 1: feel like it was like all TV recaps and Cereal
Speaker 1: This American Life or was that a radio show? What's
Speaker 1: the difference? I don't even radio? And then they were
Speaker 1: I'm still explaining to my mom with the differences, and
Speaker 1: I don't really know, um, but it was. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: I I feel like especially shows that have been on
Speaker 1: for as long as ours have, it's like, it's it
Speaker 1: would be very kind of fucked up if it was
Speaker 1: the same exact same show as we started it. We're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we haven't grown and we haven't changed. Yeah, so well,
Speaker 1: the Bechtel cast came of age and it's still coming
Speaker 1: of age. Wow is this I was going to say,
Speaker 1: just like Shrek two, It's not really a coming of
Speaker 1: age story at all. It's just Shrek one with different
Speaker 1: a lot of elements moved around, right, but and then
Speaker 1: the same like theme and like message, but not as
Speaker 1: effectively done is the first movie? Question? One? Thing is
Speaker 1: just the opposite of the first movie. I I guess
Speaker 1: I didn't remember that much about Shrek two because I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is just Shrek one, except Shrek one wasn't nominated
Speaker 1: for a Palm Day or I don't think, let me check,
Speaker 1: I would guess. No. Here was my brilliant observation as
Speaker 1: I was watching Shrek two. Is that to me, it's
Speaker 1: the family friendly version of the movie get out? Wow? Okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: I see that. I see that. Which then when I
Speaker 1: when I was reading the scholarly journal Wikipedia, the article
Speaker 1: about Shrek two, I learned that screenwriter and co director
Speaker 1: Andrew Adamson based the plot of Shrek two off of
Speaker 1: guests Who's coming to Dinner? I did know that, right,
Speaker 1: which is a similar premise as well. So Shrek to
Speaker 1: just a more poorly executed family friendly version. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: you know. The message is very I think intended well,
Speaker 1: quite hit or mess. Indeed, However, when this movie came
Speaker 1: out in two thousand four, So it came out May nine,
Speaker 1: two thousand four, that's two days after my eighteenth birthday,
Speaker 1: did you go? I did go to see in theaters,
Speaker 1: probably multiple times if I remember correctly. It was also
Speaker 1: like within a few days of my high school graduation,
Speaker 1: so I was like it was a celebratory May for me,
Speaker 1: and the most important event being the release of Shrek two. Obviously,
Speaker 1: So I I really liked this, but I thought it
Speaker 1: was funny when I was like eighteen years old. Um,
Speaker 1: I did then it on DVD right when it came
Speaker 1: out on DVD. I still own it on DVD. I know, incredible,
Speaker 1: but I have not seen this movie for probably well
Speaker 1: over a decade. I I probably stopped watching it in
Speaker 1: like two thousand six. I would guess, Okay, what's your
Speaker 1: relationship with Shrek too? I didn't see Shrek two when
Speaker 1: it came out, which is kind of bizarre because I
Speaker 1: would have been like the exact right age to really
Speaker 1: eat it up. But I think, after we've talked about
Speaker 1: this on the show before, my mom didn't like gross things,
Speaker 1: and she did not like farts, and so she was like,
Speaker 1: my little girl is not going to see a movie
Speaker 1: where there's farting, farting, farting all day. Um, So I
Speaker 1: think I would have seen this movie, probably at someone's
Speaker 1: house at some point. I don't remember. Like, I wasn't
Speaker 1: a big I was a late Shrek bloomer, I feel like,
Speaker 1: and when I came into my Shrek nous, I really
Speaker 1: came in hard. But I didn't come into my shrekness
Speaker 1: until college, and then I started getting naked and painting
Speaker 1: myself like Shrek. I got into there's like I mean,
Speaker 1: and I feel like a lot of our listeners already
Speaker 1: are familiar with the online Shrek culture that exists. You
Speaker 1: sold Shrek nudes right to raise money for a planned
Speaker 1: parenthood I did. There's a bunch of my nudes just
Speaker 1: still out there. You know, who knows who's got them?
Speaker 1: Hard copies? Why did I do hard copies? Yes, all
Speaker 1: hard copies, and I snail mailed them to people. That's
Speaker 1: when I worked at Playboy, and I used their nice
Speaker 1: magazine printers to print my Shrek nuds, which did feel exciting. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Why did I choose to do hard copies is something
Speaker 1: that I think about a lot. I think it was.
Speaker 1: I think I was like, oh, this will be harder
Speaker 1: for people to disseminate it if I don't like email
Speaker 1: my nudes to them, I I think, which is true.
Speaker 1: I mean, they've never resurfaced. But I also am haunted
Speaker 1: by the idea of like these little haunted paintings, you know,
Speaker 1: like these little cursed naked Jamie's hiding in people's closets.
Speaker 1: Because I'm like, I don't think that they're on display.
Speaker 1: But what if they are. That's even more bizarre. What
Speaker 1: if people like framed them and hung them up? They
Speaker 1: were sent in frames? I said, them with frames? God,
Speaker 1: that was that was pre vctil cast. I don't know,
Speaker 1: there's I can't vouch I cannot vouch for for her.
Speaker 1: Um and what oh, And then I wanted to plug
Speaker 1: the other big Shrek thing I participated in called Shrek Retold. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's a completely shrek Head fan animated version of
Speaker 1: the first movie that came out I think at the
Speaker 1: end of teen Oh, I just oh. It has over
Speaker 1: eight million views on YouTube poly cow. But basically, like
Speaker 1: ninety artists were given one minute of Shrek to reproduce
Speaker 1: however they saw fit and I got I got to
Speaker 1: do a minute of it and guess what they're doing
Speaker 1: Shrek too and I did it again. You Oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: it's so exciting, so long winded way of saying I
Speaker 1: love Shrek, but I hadn't seen Shrek to and also
Speaker 1: a long time. I feel like I really stuck to
Speaker 1: one is the classic one is on the A five
Speaker 1: list of a hundred best movies of all time. That
Speaker 1: is wild. I'm not shifting you. I was like, I
Speaker 1: was like, that sounds like a joke, but it is.
Speaker 1: I can think of at least five hundred movies that
Speaker 1: are better than Shrek one. Uh you know, I you
Speaker 1: say that, and yet Shrek one is genuinely really good.
Speaker 1: It was nominated for Okay, it was what shouldn't have
Speaker 1: been nominated for Best a Dad Did Screenplay. I don't
Speaker 1: you know. I wos to say yeah, but I feel
Speaker 1: like it would. I would probably stand for it more
Speaker 1: if not for all the very dated references in it.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, I mean it's the early two thousands energy
Speaker 1: coming off of both of these Shrek movies is um frustrating.
Speaker 1: I just meant, like, story wise and message wise, I
Speaker 1: feel like it has a lot going for It's fair
Speaker 1: and I like that it was a product of spite um,
Speaker 1: which is always a fun story. Mr. Former Disney was like,
Speaker 1: I'm Mr dream Works now and I hate Disney, so
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make Shrek get them. He genuinely. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: make no mistake, We're a thoroughly anti Jeffrey Kathenberg podcast.
Speaker 1: He's currently trying to like influence homelessness policy in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: He's a fucking loser, so not vouching for him. I
Speaker 1: just appreciate it's it can be a beautiful thing. I
Speaker 1: can't well should we should we dive into Shrek to
Speaker 1: the recap and go from there. Yeah, we never said
Speaker 1: what the podcast was Oh my gosh, you're You're right. No,
Speaker 1: I guess we should. Yeah, this this could be someone's
Speaker 1: first episode. This is a loose one. This is a
Speaker 1: loose One's very okay. Don't expect us to be at
Speaker 1: our discourse best. We're basically on vacation right now. Consider
Speaker 1: us Shreks butthole. It's loose, it's flapping around, it's farting.
Speaker 1: I didn't see it coming. I love it, honestly me either,
Speaker 1: because I usually don't do like fart humor. But there
Speaker 1: it is. You just called treks but lose, Well is
Speaker 1: it not? I don't think it's tight. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I guess. I guess I hadn't, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know the guy. I don't know the guy.
Speaker 1: Have you ever been on Shrek four D where they
Speaker 1: universal least the farts in your Universal Studios? I sure have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they changed it to Kung Fu Panda, but they're oh
Speaker 1: and also they're taking Shrek out of Universal Studios. I
Speaker 1: think that they're like, Shrek is irrelevant. Isn't that sad?
Speaker 1: That is sad? Isn't there a fifth Shrek movie coming out? Though?
Speaker 1: Or did that get shelved or something. It better still
Speaker 1: be coming out. I don't know. I think that they're
Speaker 1: they're absolute goofs to get rid of. No Shrek five
Speaker 1: is still oh yeah, let me, I'm googling right now.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. It's kind of up
Speaker 1: in the air. It's his t b A. Eddie Murphy
Speaker 1: said it was coming out in he was. Didn't happen
Speaker 1: that came and went Eddie Murphy. Oh god, Okay. There's
Speaker 1: a screen Rant article entitled Shrek five Everything we Know
Speaker 1: about the movie so far that was published or at
Speaker 1: least updated July one, which was only a few months ago.
Speaker 1: But too many words to read. And you know we
Speaker 1: never Oh my god, I guess. I guess time will
Speaker 1: tell if Shrek five ever comes out. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: very That makes me so sad. They better anyway. The
Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast is our show in which we that we've
Speaker 1: been doing for five years that we just forgot how
Speaker 1: to start. On this show, we examine movies from an
Speaker 1: intersectional feminist lens. Most movies don't fare very well. We
Speaker 1: use the Bechtel test simply as an inspiration. We were
Speaker 1: inspired by the Bechtel Test, and that is where the
Speaker 1: name comes from. That's where the general premise of the
Speaker 1: show comes. But if you've been listening for the past
Speaker 1: five or however many years, you know that the show
Speaker 1: is so much more. Thanks for staying with us. Thank
Speaker 1: you truly, especially after that Shrek one episode Ike's I
Speaker 1: would have how were you ca Caitlin silly voices? I
Speaker 1: want to go back now and listen. I'm like, what
Speaker 1: does that even me? Wait? Can you do it? Can
Speaker 1: you tell me what the Bechtelt test is in in
Speaker 1: the voice? Absolutely not, I will never um. But the
Speaker 1: Bechdel test is a media metric created by queer cartoonist
Speaker 1: Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test. Our version
Speaker 1: requires that two people of a marginalized gender have names
Speaker 1: and speak to each other about something other than a
Speaker 1: man for at least two lines of dialogue, and ideally
Speaker 1: it's a meaningful, narratively relevant conversation. I did not remember
Speaker 1: to pay attention if Shrek to passes the Bechtel test
Speaker 1: or not, I leave it the light past. Usually listeners,
Speaker 1: I mean, we've been doing this for five years. We
Speaker 1: usually wait until the end of the episode to have
Speaker 1: this discussion. But again, it's loose today, We're yeah, we're
Speaker 1: Shrek's asked today, we're loose, loose, loose. No, it does pass, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: so yeah, well we'll talk about it later, I guess
Speaker 1: yeah at the end. Wait, hold on, hold on. I
Speaker 1: just went to very because I think that there is
Speaker 1: a like single exchange between Fiona and the Fairy Godmother
Speaker 1: that passes that isn't about Shrek, and then I think
Speaker 1: another one between her and her mother there, but it's
Speaker 1: like these are two lined exchanges. But anyways, I just
Speaker 1: went to Bechtel test dot com to check my work
Speaker 1: beautiful and the comments are so funny. Um okay, So
Speaker 1: it says that Shrek two passed the Bechtel test. Someone
Speaker 1: named Renee disagreed, and here's her comment, mentioning Shrek goes
Speaker 1: against the third CRITERIATL test. Like, damn, that's true. It's true.
Speaker 1: Damn that's true. Well there you have it podcast over
Speaker 1: so five years and the answer is, we don't really know,
Speaker 1: because we forgot sometimes we don't do our job. But also,
Speaker 1: the Pectel test, as we've always said, it's a flawed
Speaker 1: metric and it's not the most important thing when analyzing film. Well,
Speaker 1: I feel like in this case the fact that it
Speaker 1: probably like may not pass the PacTel test. Actually it
Speaker 1: says a lot about the movie because it's not like
Speaker 1: this movie is like the pantheon of feminism. What. Look,
Speaker 1: we're just partying today. We're just chilling. Okay, Okay, let's
Speaker 1: take a quick break and then we'll come back for
Speaker 1: the recap because we've just been yapping our loose butt holes,
Speaker 1: slap in our butts, all right, so we'll be right
Speaker 1: back and we're back. We're back. Wow. Wow, we're actually
Speaker 1: a mess today. This is really funny. I wonder if
Speaker 1: this is where someone's like, I'm out, I'm out, you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm out. Bear with us. Okay, we're partying today, everybody.
Speaker 1: I can come back for a discourse next week. We're
Speaker 1: where this is it? I was going to say, isn't
Speaker 1: we supposed to be having a fiesta? Is it? We
Speaker 1: supposed to be having a fiesta? Indeed? We we is?
Speaker 1: We is. So here's here's the recap for Shruk two.
Speaker 1: We open on a fairy tale book telling similar to
Speaker 1: the way the first movie opens, telling of the story
Speaker 1: of a princess who was cursed with an enchantment. So
Speaker 1: her mother and father, the King and Queen, sought the
Speaker 1: help of a fairy godmother who had the princess locked
Speaker 1: away in a tower guarded by a dragon to await
Speaker 1: the kiss of a handsome Prince Charming. Then we meet
Speaker 1: Prince Charming was like the John Lithgo, but just a
Speaker 1: different character. Yes, why this time voiced by Rupert Everett.
Speaker 1: And he's taller, right, but like the same. I don't
Speaker 1: get it. I don't get it. Also, I always forget
Speaker 1: who Rubert Everett is and then I look him up
Speaker 1: and I'm like, this didn't help. I know that he's
Speaker 1: been in a lot of stuff, but I don't know
Speaker 1: who he is and I can't remember. That's okay, thank you,
Speaker 1: You're welcome. Anyway. Prince Charming shows up at the dragon
Speaker 1: guarded castle, but Princess Fiona isn't there because she is
Speaker 1: on her honeymoon with Shrek. Now, if you're not familiar
Speaker 1: with Shrek, listeners out there, or you haven't seen the
Speaker 1: first movie, first of all, get it together. Secondly, help you. Secondly,
Speaker 1: both Shrek and Fiona are ogres famously, So okay, So
Speaker 1: there's this honeymoon montage, there's a Lord of the Rings joke.
Speaker 1: It's all very two thousand and four. There's some two
Speaker 1: thousand four humor in this that I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: even know, I don't remember what the references even. There's yeah,
Speaker 1: but then the movie occasionally references things from like the eighties.
Speaker 1: There's like a Flashdance reference. Towards the end of the movie.
Speaker 1: There's a little Mermaid reference which came out in the
Speaker 1: late eighties. Like it's just I feel like that's this
Speaker 1: is like, yeah, this is I don't even know if
Speaker 1: we had the capacity to talk about this in the
Speaker 1: first Wreck episode. But like, so much of the humor
Speaker 1: is like for the parents of the children. So if
Speaker 1: you saw it as a kid and you watch it
Speaker 1: back as an adult, um, you still don't know what
Speaker 1: they're talking about, Which means that kids who could be
Speaker 1: our kids don't know what did kids? Do kids still
Speaker 1: watch Shrek too? And do they know what's going on
Speaker 1: at all? Oh, if we have any parents whose kids
Speaker 1: watch Shrek to currently, let us know, do they go,
Speaker 1: ha ha I love the Lord of the Rings, Joe.
Speaker 1: Let us know, ha ha I get the Flashdance reference? Um.
Speaker 1: Elementary school students love a good flashdance reference. Okay, so
Speaker 1: we get the honeymoon montage. Then they head back home
Speaker 1: to Shrek's swamp. Donkey is there? Shrek? Thank god? Also
Speaker 1: dragons written out of this one? Yes, hate it? Okay,
Speaker 1: am I remembering this correctly? I think it might be
Speaker 1: like during or at the end of the ending title sequence,
Speaker 1: you get a shot of like Dragon and Donkey and
Speaker 1: they've had babies. Or is that at the end of
Speaker 1: the first movie had like Donkey Dragon hybrid babies. That's
Speaker 1: a definite thing, but I just don't know where you
Speaker 1: see it. I don't think it's this one though, But
Speaker 1: that's but thank you for introducing that image into my head.
Speaker 1: Wow wow wow wow. Yeah. Anyway, so at some point
Speaker 1: in the franchise, Donkey and Dragon have mixed babies. But yeah,
Speaker 1: Dragon has completely written out of this movie. And in fact,
Speaker 1: there's a part where, uh, they're like, hey, Donkey, where's Dragon?
Speaker 1: And he's like, she's been so moody lately, because women
Speaker 1: be moody, women be extreme. They're right, but that that
Speaker 1: is his whole excuse for I guess I don't really know.
Speaker 1: I guess this movie takes place over the course of
Speaker 1: what like two weeks A few weeks. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: long time to be away from your wife. On the
Speaker 1: on the on the grounds of she's moody, especially if
Speaker 1: she's pregnant, which might exp plane her mood swings. Yeah, donkey,
Speaker 1: everything of that. I'm calling him out. Donkey's a bad husband, seriously,
Speaker 1: so Donkeys there, he's being annoying. Shrek is all like, Donkey,
Speaker 1: go away, you're bothering me. Classic. We love this dynamic.
Speaker 1: We're always laughing when it's happening. Tried and true. Then
Speaker 1: Fiona and Shrek receive an invitation from her parents, the
Speaker 1: King and Queen of the Kingdom of Far far Away,
Speaker 1: for a royal ball in celebration of their marriage, and
Speaker 1: Shrek is reluctant to go, but they set off anyway
Speaker 1: too far far away. They finally get there. It's basically
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, specifically like Beverly Hills, and Shrek is very
Speaker 1: much a fish out of water. He then meets Fiona's
Speaker 1: human parents, who are not happy that Fiona and her
Speaker 1: husband are ogres. Shrek and the King in particular do
Speaker 1: not get along well because everything is about fathers and sons. Yeah,
Speaker 1: her parents are played by Julie Andrews and John Klice,
Speaker 1: so they really which I also like, it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: because it's Shrek. But I'm like, why are her parents
Speaker 1: British but she's American? Oh wow, I didn't even think
Speaker 1: of that. I mean, I I know that, I know
Speaker 1: that children can have different accents from their parents, but
Speaker 1: I just don't. I just felt like the story didn't
Speaker 1: rise to the occasion and give me the answers that
Speaker 1: I needed to understand why her parents were iconic British
Speaker 1: people when she's Cameron Diaz right, Because it seems like
Speaker 1: everyone else in Far far Away also has English accents
Speaker 1: because the fairy godmother, Prince Charming. I think anyone else
Speaker 1: you hear talking who's like a local has an English accent.
Speaker 1: I wonder how like thought through that was, or if
Speaker 1: it really is like a like specifically American audience thing
Speaker 1: of like, oh well, we like the person with the
Speaker 1: American accent because she sounds like us. I have to
Speaker 1: the directors from New Zealand, so who knows, And then
Speaker 1: you've got Canadian Mike Myers doing a Scottish Shrek. If
Speaker 1: nothing makes sense, that's true. I forgot her. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: know what, it's a fairytale land. I just was like, wow,
Speaker 1: they really like got the most famous British people who
Speaker 1: had agreed to do the movie, right, Um, okay, So yeah,
Speaker 1: Shrek and the King do not get along, which makes
Speaker 1: Fiona sad and it puts some strain on her relationship
Speaker 1: with Shrek. She sheds a tear which seems to summon
Speaker 1: Fiona's fairy godmother, who is surprised that Fiona is now
Speaker 1: an ogre and that she has gotten married. The reason
Speaker 1: for this is a fairy godmother is Prince Charming's mother
Speaker 1: and fairy godmother and the King had arranged for Prince
Speaker 1: Charming to be the one to save Fiona from the
Speaker 1: tower that she was locked up in kind of a
Speaker 1: fun plot twist. I forgot about that, like overlap. I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, so the fairy godmother has narrative purpose.
Speaker 1: That's you know, that's not guaranteed in these in this genre.
Speaker 1: That's true and I mean spoiler alert, but you learned
Speaker 1: that the fairy godmother has leverage over the king because
Speaker 1: she had turned him from a frog into a human.
Speaker 1: So she keeps like threatening him, being like, don't forget
Speaker 1: the deal that I made for you, and blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: you owe me so genius, amazing writing. The King has
Speaker 1: to make things right, so he hires a hit man
Speaker 1: to get rid of Shrek. He sure does, I do
Speaker 1: kind of miss like I I guess that this still
Speaker 1: might happen in children's movies, but I'm like, wow, he
Speaker 1: literally just hired someone that kills someone murder Shrek. But
Speaker 1: we don't yet get the reveal of who or what
Speaker 1: the hit man is. But just you wait, just wait.
Speaker 1: I knew what the reveal was that I was still
Speaker 1: like wow, I loved it. I loved every second of it. Same. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Shrek and Fiona's relationship again is rocky because Fiona is
Speaker 1: upset that Shrek is not making an effort to get
Speaker 1: along with her family. So then the King approaches Shrek
Speaker 1: and is pretending to want to start over and try
Speaker 1: to get along for Fiona's sake, So the King has
Speaker 1: Shrek meet him the following morning, but again it's it's
Speaker 1: actually a trap, and the hit man that the King hired,
Speaker 1: who is revealed to be Puss in Boots voiced by
Speaker 1: Antonio Benderi, is of course true icon Puss in Boots,
Speaker 1: who also has like way less to do with the
Speaker 1: story than I remember. I don't know why, Like Puss
Speaker 1: in Boots, he does stuff, but he's also kind of
Speaker 1: like I feel like it almost becomes a joke of like,
Speaker 1: oh wow, now Shrek has two sidekicks. Yeah, and that's
Speaker 1: just kind of what happens. I didn't totally remember this either,
Speaker 1: where so he like attacks Shrek for a few minutes
Speaker 1: and then there's no match for an ogre, so he's
Speaker 1: not going to be able to kill Shrek. So then
Speaker 1: so like, but you would think that that information would
Speaker 1: have been like really important before accepting the job of
Speaker 1: like what was like, what was We're just gonna see
Speaker 1: Shrek kill a cat? Yeah, and then keep walking like
Speaker 1: the plot is confusing. It kills a dog later in
Speaker 1: the movie, remember what I think. There's like this little
Speaker 1: like fluffy white dog that he like just falls on
Speaker 1: and probably crushes to death. I I thought it was
Speaker 1: like Puss in Boots, I was. I felt like he
Speaker 1: was underwritten because I was just like, well, wouldn't it
Speaker 1: doesn't help the dad to send out an assassin that
Speaker 1: would just get killed? And if Puss in Boots is
Speaker 1: such a good assassin, why wouldn't he ask who he
Speaker 1: was killing? And if he could, he does know that
Speaker 1: it's an Ogre though, because the king is like, I heard,
Speaker 1: You're the one to come to if I have an
Speaker 1: Ogre problem, and he's like, you heard correct, So he
Speaker 1: knows he's up against Ogre. It's just like the raw
Speaker 1: power of Shrek, specifically that he can't exactly. He's like
Speaker 1: that butt holes to lose, baby, I can't, right, So anyways,
Speaker 1: wild Puss in Boots attacks them, and then it doesn't work,
Speaker 1: and then rather than I didn't know what I would
Speaker 1: have expected to happen, like when I was watching this
Speaker 1: for the first time, But basically then Puss in Boots
Speaker 1: is like, sorry, I tried to kill you. Can I
Speaker 1: tag along? And Shrek is like, oh, you're so cute,
Speaker 1: Sure you can tag along, and then like that's the
Speaker 1: that's it. That's kind of the direct, Like I like,
Speaker 1: I don't. I'll be honest, I don't. I'm not familiar
Speaker 1: with the actual lore of Puss in Boots, not a
Speaker 1: character I grew up with. Yeah, me either, So I
Speaker 1: really only know Puss in Boots via Shrek too, which
Speaker 1: is more or less just an extended Zoro reference, right,
Speaker 1: because Antonio Banderas played Zoro, and so we're like, ha ha,
Speaker 1: this cat is zero, so let's give him ten million
Speaker 1: dollars and half him have a little bit of fun.
Speaker 1: So it's it's amazing, is what we're saying. I mean,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't trade it for the world. I just was like, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: he has less of a story than I just assumed
Speaker 1: that there would have been more there than just like wow,
Speaker 1: look at the Zoro cat. Ha ha. Anyways, ye, So
Speaker 1: Shrek quickly realizes that the ng had hired Puss and
Speaker 1: Boots to get rid of him, So then he starts
Speaker 1: to wonder if Fiona would be better off without him,
Speaker 1: if he was some kind of prince charming. You know,
Speaker 1: no one seems to want this ogre around, right, So
Speaker 1: Shrek gets the idea to call upon the Fairy Godmother
Speaker 1: to have her help him. So Shrek, Donkey, and Puss
Speaker 1: in Boots go to the Fairy Godmother's workshop and steal
Speaker 1: a Happily ever After potion, which Shrek drinks and Donkey
Speaker 1: also has some. It takes effect on them and on Fiona.
Speaker 1: To tell me that hot Shrek quote unquote doesn't look
Speaker 1: exactly like wreck It Ralph. It was throwing me for
Speaker 1: a loop. I feel like he looks so much like
Speaker 1: wreck It Ralph when he's turned into Mr. Shrek. I
Speaker 1: see a slight resemblance, But I don't think it's like
Speaker 1: uncanny or anything. He looks you know, they look considerably different.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. I think he looks
Speaker 1: a lot like Rocky Ralph. Also, I felt like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I liked. I think Shrek's hotter as an ogre.
Speaker 1: I'll say it, wow it yeah, I mean beauty. I
Speaker 1: don't I don't see external beauty. I just beauty is within.
Speaker 1: And that's the message of the movie. It just it.
Speaker 1: Shrek is more confident in his ogre body, you know,
Speaker 1: that's true. His his and his butt hole is so
Speaker 1: much looser as an ogre, and that's the way he likes.
Speaker 1: You can tell he's not comfortable with where his butt
Speaker 1: hole is at when he's transformed. Yeah, okay, So the
Speaker 1: potion turns Shrek into a subjectively handsome human man. Donkey
Speaker 1: is turned into a stallion, and then they discover that
Speaker 1: to make the effects of the potion permanent, the drinker
Speaker 1: has to obtain who loves Kiss by midnight, so Shrek
Speaker 1: heads back to the castle to find Fiona, who has
Speaker 1: also been transformed back into her human form. But oh no,
Speaker 1: Fairy Godmother and Prince Charming are already there, and they
Speaker 1: trick Fiona into thinking that Prince Charming is the new
Speaker 1: and improved Shrek, and Shrek is convinced that there's no
Speaker 1: way that he can make Fiona happy. He thinks that
Speaker 1: Prince Charming is the man she's always wanted, so Shrek
Speaker 1: decides to leave again. The plot is so weird here
Speaker 1: because it's like, first of all, Shrek and Fiona really
Speaker 1: need to like hit up a couple's therapists and work
Speaker 1: on their communication because the plot of but like at
Speaker 1: least the first movie, it's like a big thing that
Speaker 1: they can't talk about. But this is like a small
Speaker 1: miscommunication that gets taken way out of context, and like
Speaker 1: I was just trying to imagine, like imagine if someone
Speaker 1: you had just married read your journal from junior high
Speaker 1: and was like, she hates me, and it's like, what
Speaker 1: are you talking about? First of all, that was what
Speaker 1: that was a very upsetting journal for not the reasons
Speaker 1: that you thought for like all the descriptions of her
Speaker 1: parents gaslighting her, right, and then it's just so like
Speaker 1: juvenile to be like, oh, you didn't love me when
Speaker 1: you were twelve. It's like she didn't fucking know you
Speaker 1: and she was twelve. What are you talking about? Most
Speaker 1: of my notes about this movie are about his conduct
Speaker 1: in the first like twenty or twenty five minutes or so,
Speaker 1: and like their relationship and like the way that Fiona
Speaker 1: is characterized, the way that Shrek is characterized, and like
Speaker 1: the way they behave in this relationship. I'm just like,
Speaker 1: who get it together? I know, I feel I feel
Speaker 1: for Fiona. And then it's like there's that moment too
Speaker 1: where it seems like fe Jonah is gonna like become
Speaker 1: involved in the action, and then she just doesn't. You're like, right, um, okay,
Speaker 1: So Shrek has left, but Fiona is not warming up
Speaker 1: to Prince Charming. She's like, this isn't the Shrek I married.
Speaker 1: So fairy Godmother gives gives the king some potion to
Speaker 1: give to Fiona to make her fall in love with Charming,
Speaker 1: Like if they the first man she kisses, she'll fall
Speaker 1: in love with him, which is an interaction this like
Speaker 1: exchange of the potion is an interaction which Shrek overhears
Speaker 1: because they've all met up at this tavern. So Shrek
Speaker 1: realizes what's happening, and he takes off and heads back
Speaker 1: to the castle to the ball in order to get
Speaker 1: Fiona back, but on the way they get arrested, which
Speaker 1: plays out on screen in this like Cops like TV
Speaker 1: show was the whole and there's like a police brutality
Speaker 1: joke from Donkey that I was like this, no, no,
Speaker 1: this is not conven you to have this discussion and
Speaker 1: this show, this TV show, Yeah, that like that felt
Speaker 1: like I don't know, I mean, I'm interested in what
Speaker 1: listeners thought of that, because I was like, this seems
Speaker 1: like an inappropriate joke to be making. And also the
Speaker 1: fact that it was being made in two thousand four
Speaker 1: and a children's movie is like also interesting. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know how to feel about it. And then
Speaker 1: the gingerbread Man loves the show Cops, and it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: you with your why is it? Why is it gingerbread
Speaker 1: Man telling me Blue Lives Matter? Like what's going on?
Speaker 1: But so Shrek's friends back at his swamp are watching
Speaker 1: this show, so it's like Ginger, the Big Bad Wolf, Pinocchio,
Speaker 1: the Three Little Pigs, etcetera. So they realized that it's
Speaker 1: like Shrek and Donkey and puss In Boots who have
Speaker 1: been detained. So then they somehow, very quickly, within the
Speaker 1: span of a few minutes to hours, are able to
Speaker 1: get to far far away, even though we saw it
Speaker 1: took Shrek and Fiona days to get there. So plot
Speaker 1: hole much Uh yeah, a loose plot hole, not unlike
Speaker 1: Shrek's loose butthole. Anyway, this was nominated for a put Look,
Speaker 1: we anyone can be nominated for a Palm Day or gosh,
Speaker 1: I need to yeah, I need to write some movies
Speaker 1: that are better than Shrek to Okay, So the Shrek's
Speaker 1: friends show up and bust Shrek, Donkey, and Pussing Boots
Speaker 1: out of the like dungeon prison they're in. But they
Speaker 1: still need to get to the castle, past the security,
Speaker 1: past the big mot all that stuff. So they have
Speaker 1: to go to the Muffin Man and have him bake
Speaker 1: a giant gingerbread man so that they can get into
Speaker 1: the castle and crash the ball that's happening. I never
Speaker 1: realized how ridiculous of a plot point. This was until
Speaker 1: rewatching it this time around that like, they're amazing idea
Speaker 1: of getting into the castle is to bake a giant gingerbread.
Speaker 1: Man it was I thought it was hilarious in two
Speaker 1: thousand four, I mean, flawless writing let's go to can
Speaker 1: let's do it. So then as Shrek is getting into
Speaker 1: the castle, Prince Charming is dancing with and trying to
Speaker 1: kiss Fiona at the ball and then Shrek bursts in
Speaker 1: and then Fairy Godmother tries to stop him, but she
Speaker 1: gets turned into a bunch of bubbles. And it's now
Speaker 1: it's almost midnight, so Shrek and Fiona have to decide
Speaker 1: happening at once, like if nothing thing is happening and
Speaker 1: yet everything and I mean this climax wowy wow. So yeah,
Speaker 1: the clock is taking down. It's almost midnight. So Shrek
Speaker 1: and Fiona have to decide if they want to kiss
Speaker 1: now and stay humans or wait and then transform back
Speaker 1: into their ogre selves. And Fiona is like, I want
Speaker 1: to live happily ever after with the ogre I married.
Speaker 1: So we're really we're literally returned to one at the
Speaker 1: end of the movie, and it's like, why did this
Speaker 1: movie even happen. Who has grown? What do we We've
Speaker 1: met John Claye and forgiven him for some for some reason. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So then the clock takes midnight, they transformed back to Ogres.
Speaker 1: They kiss, and then Donkey and put some boots sing
Speaker 1: live in Levita Loca and that's the end of the movie. Also,
Speaker 1: I've now as an adult, I can appreciate how the
Speaker 1: music at the end of Shrek clearly happens to get
Speaker 1: it to be feature length. This movie is eighty one
Speaker 1: minutes long, but if you add all of the musical
Speaker 1: numbers of the end, dudes about ninety minutes long. Incredible.
Speaker 1: I mean, I love a short film, so no complaints here.
Speaker 1: This is basically a short film. Let's take a quick
Speaker 1: break and then we will come right back to discuss.
Speaker 1: And we're back. Welcome back to our fifth anniversary party.
Speaker 1: Let's let's discuss. I mean, there's there's a lot of um,
Speaker 1: extremely dated, hateful humor in this movie. We we already
Speaker 1: touched on this movie's very bizarre attempt to reference how
Speaker 1: there's police brutality glorified in cop shows. There is a
Speaker 1: continuous joke about the wolf that goes across this entire
Speaker 1: franchise that is repeatedly I mean punching down at trans people,
Speaker 1: and like the wolf is referred to as gender confused.
Speaker 1: There's like all of these just very flippant ways of
Speaker 1: referring to the wolf, and it's clear the way that
Speaker 1: the movie is written and the way the character is posed,
Speaker 1: that you're laughing at them. I would say this extends
Speaker 1: to a few other characters as well. This movie has
Speaker 1: a real problem with any person or creature or animal
Speaker 1: or whatever who doesn't adhere to a like very rigid
Speaker 1: binary prescribed gender norm because any like literally any expression
Speaker 1: of gender that is not rigidly binary is commented on aggressively,
Speaker 1: down to even like Prince Charming wearing glitter, like yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's there's that. There's like the ugly step Sister character.
Speaker 1: There's the Pinocchio the joke where they're trying to get
Speaker 1: him to his nose to grow, so they tell him
Speaker 1: to say, I'm wearing ladies underwear. He says it, his
Speaker 1: nose doesn't grow because he's not lying about that, And
Speaker 1: then there's this long joke about someone who presents as
Speaker 1: a boy wearing women's underwear and like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: isn't that so funny and weird and ha ha ha,
Speaker 1: and a children's movie too, is like makes it extra
Speaker 1: insidious of how normalized punishing and mocking any form of
Speaker 1: not very rigid, rigid, rigid gender expression was at this
Speaker 1: time to the point where it could appear in a
Speaker 1: children's movie no problem. And um, I'm assuming in two
Speaker 1: thousand four get very little blowback because that was just
Speaker 1: so deeply normal and to an extent still is very
Speaker 1: very normalized in in mainstream movies. There was also, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that that similar jokes are are made about
Speaker 1: the wolf in the first movie, and also because I
Speaker 1: am a connoisseur of Shrek the Musical, they had to
Speaker 1: take a line of the wolf's dialogue out of the
Speaker 1: musical because it included a transphobic slur. So this franchise
Speaker 1: has some severe issues that I feel like are very
Speaker 1: reflective of the time it was poised and also reflective
Speaker 1: of like again, who is in the room and who
Speaker 1: is at the top creatively and like this two thousand's
Speaker 1: era edgy, edgy humor that was all dictated by like
Speaker 1: vast majority cys people, um, mostly white people and mostly guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so yeah. This This movie is um co directed by
Speaker 1: three people, all white guys. So there you go, Wolf Wolf.
Speaker 1: That's what that dog said when Shrek killed it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so um that was the main thing I noticed as
Speaker 1: far as like, again, we talked about this a lot
Speaker 1: in terms of American comedy movies specifically and their reliance
Speaker 1: on punching down as a source of comedy, especially in
Speaker 1: this era. It was like at the kind of height
Speaker 1: of that things have been changing slightly in more recent years,
Speaker 1: but this was like the prime time to be doing
Speaker 1: like punched down humor. And this is no exception even
Speaker 1: though and I think we've talked about this too, where
Speaker 1: children slush family movies are not as frequently perpetuators or
Speaker 1: participants in this type of humor because a lot of
Speaker 1: that type of humor is also would be like maybe
Speaker 1: more like PG thirteen or are rated so they can't
Speaker 1: really get away with it in a lot of cases.
Speaker 1: But this movie found a way to make repeated transphobic
Speaker 1: jokes at the expense of multiple characters in a movie
Speaker 1: that's rated PG or whatever. Right like it's it's which
Speaker 1: again just like shows, I mean, god, we could discuss
Speaker 1: movie ratings all all goddamn day. But what is considered
Speaker 1: to be harmful slash offensive? And then who is the
Speaker 1: person deciding that That's a whole other discussion. But yeah,
Speaker 1: this is like so deeply two thousand four, and I
Speaker 1: feel like that's reflected in a lot of the more
Speaker 1: attempted jokes that are simply just punching down. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: sticks out terribly, terribly, And then on top of that,
Speaker 1: the story is just like confusing. God, um, yeah, I
Speaker 1: want to talk about Shrek man. Let's talk about Shrek
Speaker 1: behavior in his relationship, and then also like the way
Speaker 1: Fiona is characterized in that relationship as well, and that
Speaker 1: whole thing because so first, well, the first like five
Speaker 1: minutes of the movie are letting you know that Shrek
Speaker 1: fus where it's just like all these times as like
Speaker 1: trying to have sex with his wife, and it's just
Speaker 1: like I know, And I also I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: I god, it really hit when it's like I just
Speaker 1: was like, wow, this whole musical opening montage is about
Speaker 1: Shrek try and a loosen his butt hole and have
Speaker 1: some fun. And then right after that when they get
Speaker 1: back from their honeymoon, like the honeymoon phase is literally
Speaker 1: over then the relationship. Okay, so basically what happens is
Speaker 1: they get this invitation to visit Fiona's parents, and Shrek
Speaker 1: is like, your family seems really pretentious. We're not going,
Speaker 1: and that's final. And then what ensues after that is
Speaker 1: to me, the movie subscribing to this idea that like,
Speaker 1: my wife is the old ball and chain. Whatever she
Speaker 1: says goes, and I'm just like, it's her world and
Speaker 1: I'm living in it kind of thing where he's like,
Speaker 1: we're not going and that's final, and then we cut
Speaker 1: to them packing up and leaving because apparently off screen
Speaker 1: there was a scene in which Fiona fought to get
Speaker 1: her way, you know, as if to say, like women
Speaker 1: and you know, his wife's are unwilling to compromise, and
Speaker 1: you know, there you gotta do what they say, you know,
Speaker 1: and you're you just have to accept the fact that
Speaker 1: you're quote unquote whipped. All that kind of stuff. So
Speaker 1: that's those were the vibes I was getting from all
Speaker 1: of that. Meanwhile, Shrek is being an absolute asshole in
Speaker 1: these scenes where he's like making assumptions about her family
Speaker 1: and saying like, oh, I don't even want to be
Speaker 1: a part of this family, so you know, he he
Speaker 1: doesn't want to make any compromises or anything like that.
Speaker 1: But it's Fiona who is the one who is being
Speaker 1: presented as unreasonable because she especially because like Shrek turns
Speaker 1: out to be right in this situation, because his assumptions
Speaker 1: about her family end up being correct, and you know,
Speaker 1: he keeps saying this is a bad idea, and he
Speaker 1: turns out to be right. So it makes Fiona look
Speaker 1: like she doesn't really know what she's talking about or
Speaker 1: that like she's being unreasonable, which is really frustrating because
Speaker 1: it's like the Fiona character. I mean, I didn't rewatch
Speaker 1: Shrek one for this, and that's me, but like I
Speaker 1: do feel like the Fiona character, like she's especially for
Speaker 1: a like princess character that's supposed to be commenting on
Speaker 1: other princess characters. I feel like in the first movie,
Speaker 1: she's that's done pretty effectively and she's a very motivated character.
Speaker 1: She participates in a lot of the action, like it
Speaker 1: seems to like successfully subvert, where this movie just doesn't
Speaker 1: seem too as much, which is frustrating because there's I
Speaker 1: think a lot of interesting stuff set up for Fiona.
Speaker 1: But then either it's dropped or like Shrek resolves the
Speaker 1: conflict instead of her resolving her own conflict, and so
Speaker 1: then it just sort of plays into the princess tropes
Speaker 1: that the character was written to subvert of like, well,
Speaker 1: she needs her husband, her hero to resolve her childhood
Speaker 1: trauma question mark. Like it just is all because because
Speaker 1: with with Fiona's story here, I feel like you're given
Speaker 1: like a pretty interesting concept for a kids movie that
Speaker 1: feels like it fits in the world, which is like
Speaker 1: that Fiona really wants to maintain a relationship with her parents,
Speaker 1: even though it's clear that her parents have gas lit
Speaker 1: and abused her in the past, and she she like
Speaker 1: wants to find a way to you know, remain in
Speaker 1: their lives and have her husband get along with them,
Speaker 1: and like, I don't know, I was like, wow, this
Speaker 1: is a very adult issue to be working through, you know, Like,
Speaker 1: but she doesn't really get the opportunity to explore that
Speaker 1: at all, Like she's just told by other people and
Speaker 1: things start happening to her, and then I feel like
Speaker 1: the Fiona from the first movie is kind of like
Speaker 1: especially by the point that she's being shown a different
Speaker 1: guy and she's like I don't know is this Shrek
Speaker 1: or not like your Fion. Like I feel like Princess
Speaker 1: Fiona would know, you know, like and would get into
Speaker 1: a fight about it, not be like I'm confused, go
Speaker 1: along with it and be like, yeah, something's not right here,
Speaker 1: but I Am not gonna do anything about it, and
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna keep and then like forgive her parents
Speaker 1: for a world of trauma at the very last second
Speaker 1: of the movie where you're just like, uh, huh what Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just like I was. So I didn't realize what
Speaker 1: a Princess Fiona stand I was until I rewatched this
Speaker 1: movie and I was like, Wow, everything that is cool
Speaker 1: about her. She she doesn't really get to like do
Speaker 1: in this movie. She doesn't get to really participate in
Speaker 1: any action. I feel like we're told that her trauma
Speaker 1: is resolved, but we don't understand why, and like it's
Speaker 1: just like her dad being like, my bad that I
Speaker 1: was going to literally murder your husband, Like that's not
Speaker 1: a like, no, you don't just bounce back from that. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I forcibly incarcerated you for your entire childhood and then
Speaker 1: try to murder your husband the second you found happiness whoops,
Speaker 1: like and then and then she's like it's okay, I
Speaker 1: love you. Like I was like, oh, man, not to
Speaker 1: mention force her into a marriage that she was like
Speaker 1: probably not going to want to be in or consent to,
Speaker 1: because like again, he had arranged with a fairy godmother
Speaker 1: for Prince Charming to come and like sweep Fiona off
Speaker 1: her feet. So like, yeah, the king is awful. She
Speaker 1: should honestly, I mean, forgiveness is complicated, but if it
Speaker 1: were me, I would not forgive the king if he
Speaker 1: was my dad. Well that's yeah, forgiveness is complicated. But
Speaker 1: I feel like in a movie like this, it would
Speaker 1: have been kind of cool to see Princess Fiona be like,
Speaker 1: I don't trust you, motherfucker's like, because I just feel
Speaker 1: like that's a message you never get, Like, especially in
Speaker 1: family films, you're always told like your family is your
Speaker 1: family no matter what, which is like not not a
Speaker 1: universally applicable message for a lot of people who have
Speaker 1: difficult relationships with their families. And Fiona is such an
Speaker 1: independent character that it would have been nice to either
Speaker 1: see like her family really make amends with her in
Speaker 1: a way that wasn't just completely bullshit end of movie stuff,
Speaker 1: or maybe some ambiguous like I don't know, like you'll
Speaker 1: have to earn my trust back, or I like the
Speaker 1: real bad as choice would have been, like you know what,
Speaker 1: I found true happiness in spite of you. I don't
Speaker 1: need you in my life. Me and Shrek are going
Speaker 1: to a couple's counseling at the swamp, Like that's that's
Speaker 1: the ending I wanted for Shrek too, because also Shrek
Speaker 1: is like being a real dipshit and you know that's
Speaker 1: I know that's the problem to where So after we
Speaker 1: get those few scenes that are basically there to communicate,
Speaker 1: Fiona is this like kind of naggy like I'm going
Speaker 1: to get my way because what I say goes because
Speaker 1: I'm an unreasonable his wife character. After that, they arrive
Speaker 1: at the castle and there's a scene after the dinner
Speaker 1: scene where Fiona does seem to be acting more like
Speaker 1: the Princess Fiona we Know One Love, where she's like
Speaker 1: calling Shrek out on his behavior, like I can't believe
Speaker 1: how you are behaving. No one is considering what I
Speaker 1: might want in this situation. She tells him he's behaving
Speaker 1: like an ogre even though I would argue that, like,
Speaker 1: Fiona's expectations are similarly kind of uncompromising and a little unreasonable.
Speaker 1: I agree. But but then when she said like, well,
Speaker 1: but I don't know, yeah, they're both kind of I
Speaker 1: was like, wow, this is actually this is this is
Speaker 1: the marriage story. I want to see Shrek and Fiona
Speaker 1: marriage story. Um. But then yeah, because I was kind
Speaker 1: of conflicted about that, because I was like, well, I
Speaker 1: don't think that it's like unreasonable that Shrek is like, no,
Speaker 1: I don't want to meet these people and get along
Speaker 1: with them. They like imprisoned you. I don't like them.
Speaker 1: I don't like that. Like I think for a spouse
Speaker 1: that is actually maybe a good attitude. Yeah, he's advocating
Speaker 1: for her in a way that I'm like, I'm fine
Speaker 1: with that. And then also, you know, like Shrek's baggage
Speaker 1: is not that phrase. Shrek's baggage emotionally is that he
Speaker 1: was like aggressively rejected from society for a really long time.
Speaker 1: So of course going to the highest fanciest levels of
Speaker 1: the society that rejected him for his whole life is
Speaker 1: going to bring up a lot of ship for him.
Speaker 1: Like I get why he doesn't want to go for
Speaker 1: multiple reasons. That's why I was like, I was kind
Speaker 1: of joking about the good out thing, but like that,
Speaker 1: like I was legitimately reminded of that where there's like
Speaker 1: a scene in the beginning of that movie where Chris
Speaker 1: is like, I'm having hesitations about being a black man
Speaker 1: going to your like rich white family. Obviously it's not
Speaker 1: the same as like, you know whatever in Shrek, but
Speaker 1: like there there is like a like a class difference thing.
Speaker 1: There's a cultural difference thing, Like Shrek has every reason
Speaker 1: to be really concerned about the way that he is
Speaker 1: likely to be treated by this like royal family of
Speaker 1: like who are again like the ruling class and the
Speaker 1: people who are generally responsible for marginalizing ogres like Shrek
Speaker 1: and Fiona like will not hear about it, and it's
Speaker 1: just like you need to listen. But then I also like,
Speaker 1: I like, I think that Fiona does need to listen,
Speaker 1: and also think that her refusing to hear him on
Speaker 1: that is like a trauma response on her end, because
Speaker 1: she can't believe that her parents are bad and she
Speaker 1: like That's why I was like, God, this is such
Speaker 1: a rich story. Is It's like wild that they just
Speaker 1: drop it, because I do feel like I agree with
Speaker 1: you that, like Shrek is absolutely right to have, you know,
Speaker 1: issues with going to them and to go in with
Speaker 1: zero trust in these people because of all the reasons
Speaker 1: you just described. And then also it's like Fiona, I
Speaker 1: feel like there's a part of her that knows that,
Speaker 1: but also like that kind of thing that you have
Speaker 1: with in any difficult relationship where you're like, well, if
Speaker 1: I admit that they were wrong to do this, this
Speaker 1: is just going to unravel something and I'm not going
Speaker 1: to be able to have a relationship with them anymore
Speaker 1: because all the funked up stuff is going to start
Speaker 1: bubbling to the surface. Or that's how I sort of
Speaker 1: felt like Fiona was coming from, at least at the
Speaker 1: beginning of the movie, before her motivations became increasingly confusing
Speaker 1: and less relevant to the story. But it just felt
Speaker 1: like she was like, well, I can't like if I
Speaker 1: admit that my parents were wrong to lock me in
Speaker 1: a tower and wrong to like judge me for being
Speaker 1: an ogre at night question Mark, then I will have
Speaker 1: to admit all this other stuff, and I'm not ready
Speaker 1: because I want to have a relationship with them. So
Speaker 1: it's like they're so like their stuff is so at
Speaker 1: odds and then they just like don't really explore it.
Speaker 1: And I don't disagree with the story choice that, like
Speaker 1: Shrek is absolutely right, Like I'm glad that the story
Speaker 1: didn't take the choice of like and Shrek just misjudged
Speaker 1: the ruling class. They were actually really cool like that
Speaker 1: at least, it's not that like he's proven right right
Speaker 1: away when they get there and once again Shrek is rejected,
Speaker 1: which is his you know, worst fear, and also what
Speaker 1: he said was going to happen, and they reject Fiona,
Speaker 1: which also hurts them both. And god, yeah, Fiona is
Speaker 1: having like a denial issue in this movie and Shrek
Speaker 1: is having a protagonist syndrome issue in this movie. There
Speaker 1: are just so many layers. Much like ogres have layers,
Speaker 1: onions have layers, The story has layers. I always appreciate
Speaker 1: their onion carriage. I think that's funny. Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 1: the movie doesn't feel equipped to like handle all the
Speaker 1: things that it's presenting. No, but I got a very
Speaker 1: interesting setup to I mean, those are two very specific
Speaker 1: outlooks on the situation, both of which in character. I
Speaker 1: see why they feel the ways that they do. But
Speaker 1: then it just goes nowhere. It goes nowhere, and yeah,
Speaker 1: again the way because it doesn't explore it fully enough.
Speaker 1: It just makes Fiona seem unreasonable and like unwilling to compromise,
Speaker 1: and it makes Shrek seem, I don't know, just like
Speaker 1: an asshole. And then so there's like the dinner scene
Speaker 1: where like Shrek and the King are arguing with each
Speaker 1: other in that Basically what happens like after the first
Speaker 1: half hour of the movie is that Fiona is relegated
Speaker 1: to a his wife type character where all she's doing
Speaker 1: is just sort of being like Shrek, stop it, come on,
Speaker 1: stop it Shrek, which kind of starts in this dinner
Speaker 1: scene where both of his wives are just like Harold stop,
Speaker 1: Shrek stop. And then for the rest of the movie
Speaker 1: Fiona sucks is just like yeah, not really participating in
Speaker 1: the narrative, and every scene she's in after that she's
Speaker 1: just like, dad, what's going on? Where's my husband? The
Speaker 1: most annoying thing too, is like she almost sets off
Speaker 1: to go fine Shrek, but then the plot stops her
Speaker 1: from doing that, right, Yeah, it's like raining and she's like,
Speaker 1: I guess never mind right. I was like, wait, why
Speaker 1: are you throwing this in my face? Right now? This stinks?
Speaker 1: And then I feel like, I mean, there's not much
Speaker 1: to say about the queen character, but she's given not
Speaker 1: like nothing to do except to be like, Harold, what's
Speaker 1: going on right? Something seems amiss? But what is it?
Speaker 1: I'll ask my husband, who is clearly the reason things
Speaker 1: are going wrong. She literally doesn't know that her husband's
Speaker 1: a frog. She's just out of it, man. And then
Speaker 1: like the Fairy go Bather. I think the Fairy Gabather
Speaker 1: I thought was like a pretty effective villain. I liked
Speaker 1: that at least she was like I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: it is all kind of connected to being a mother,
Speaker 1: but which is not my favorite. But I do appreciate
Speaker 1: the the onion lairs that that character is given of.
Speaker 1: Like she shows up with an agenda. She's she's literally
Speaker 1: like girl boss villing, like she wants power. She's blackmailing
Speaker 1: rich guys, and you're like, well, you know it's not right,
Speaker 1: but it's interesting to watch. She's a female business owner,
Speaker 1: she's a small business owner, so go off, Queen. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I I was on the surface, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's pretty cool that there's a female villain, especially in
Speaker 1: a I think we've talked about this before, but um,
Speaker 1: I've noticed a trend in movies where if the villain
Speaker 1: is a woman, chances are the protagonist is also a woman.
Speaker 1: And it's rare to see a female villain with a
Speaker 1: male protagonist because I think the idea that a lot
Speaker 1: of like writers and storytellers assume is that, oh, a
Speaker 1: woman wouldn't be a formidable opponent to a man. A
Speaker 1: woman would only be a formidable opponent to another woman.
Speaker 1: And I feel like this is especially true in fairytale narratives,
Speaker 1: where there are a lot of like Disney female villains.
Speaker 1: You've got your you know, the a Witch from Snow White,
Speaker 1: Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty, Ursula from Little Mermaid. But those
Speaker 1: are all movies with female protagonists as well, and I
Speaker 1: think it's kind of rare to see a movie with
Speaker 1: a villain who's a woman and a protagonist who is
Speaker 1: a man. So for this movie, I was like, Okay, damn,
Speaker 1: we we get a subversion of that. So I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's cool. But then I started to think about fairy
Speaker 1: Godmother's motivation and you like hinted at this, but it
Speaker 1: is very much revolving around her son, where she's just like,
Speaker 1: I want my son to be king or something, but
Speaker 1: not because she wants power. It's just that, like, she
Speaker 1: just wants to elevate the status of her son, and
Speaker 1: everything she's doing is like for her son. I guess
Speaker 1: I sort of I sort of assumed, maybe I'm giving
Speaker 1: the story too much credit. I sort of assumed that
Speaker 1: she did want an elevated status and she did want
Speaker 1: power and like, but she never says that, so right,
Speaker 1: I just sort of assumed because her son was so
Speaker 1: like dofy that like and so like clearly not equipped
Speaker 1: to be king that and she was so motivated and
Speaker 1: capable that it was gonna that it was almost like
Speaker 1: an arrangement of I guess I was really headcandoning this,
Speaker 1: but I was like, oh, well, you know, he'll become
Speaker 1: king and then she'll tell him what to do, and
Speaker 1: that's how she'll get the power that she wants to have.
Speaker 1: And that was I think I've just been watching Succession
Speaker 1: too much because I was like, well, clearly there's a
Speaker 1: chess game going on here, but maybe i'm reading get
Speaker 1: to it too much. I mean, yeah, that would have
Speaker 1: tracked if she was like, I want more power and
Speaker 1: the way I'm going to get it is by orchestrating
Speaker 1: this thing where my I can gain access to power
Speaker 1: via my son. And if that was like something she
Speaker 1: clearly articulated, that would have completely tracked for me. But
Speaker 1: she doesn't ever explicitly say that. So yeah, I was
Speaker 1: literally just I just watched I just watched Succession for
Speaker 1: the first time, and I was just like, yep, there's
Speaker 1: I get I know exactly what's going on here. I
Speaker 1: get it. I understand rich people are so fucked up truly. Okay,
Speaker 1: So I mean, I I guess if you view I
Speaker 1: guess listeners, what did you think? Was she just being
Speaker 1: mommy or was she being a you know, was she
Speaker 1: going to be like round about queen? Because the Far
Speaker 1: Far Away does appear to still be a deeply patriarchal structure,
Speaker 1: so it does seem like the sort of thing she
Speaker 1: would have to work around in order to accomplish the
Speaker 1: power she may or may not have wanted, right Yeah, yeah, anyways,
Speaker 1: so she has more interesting things going on than Fiona
Speaker 1: in this movie, which sucks. Yeah, yeah, gosh, she's really
Speaker 1: like neutralized in the middle of the movie in a
Speaker 1: way that it made me so bummed out. And then
Speaker 1: you see her like sad youth gaslighting journal and Shrek
Speaker 1: is like jealous of her crush for when she was
Speaker 1: twelve Prince Charming. I was like, Shrek, you're not emotionally intelligent, period,
Speaker 1: and like that's just such a huge invasion of privacy
Speaker 1: that I'm like, so much of what Shrek does in
Speaker 1: those first like I don't know, twenty five minutes, I'm
Speaker 1: just like, dude, you need to really work on yourself,
Speaker 1: Like you need couples counseling, you need individual counseling. Like
Speaker 1: problematic there, they're you're you're so insecure and but you're
Speaker 1: refusing to work on yourself. He really does weaponize his
Speaker 1: insecurity against the people he loves, doesn't He sure does, God, Shrek,
Speaker 1: Shrek is deeply insecure and that is why we love him.
Speaker 1: But also it's like, um, you have to you have
Speaker 1: to improve Shrek. I think that, you know, I'll say it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say something that's very controversial. I think Shrek
Speaker 1: and Fiona should have dated longer. Okay, I think they
Speaker 1: should have gotten to know each other better. Hang on,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that they couldn't live together. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that they couldn't be in love. I'm just saying
Speaker 1: I mean, they got married very quickly, and the and
Speaker 1: the strain and the relationship starts to show right after
Speaker 1: the honeymoon. I mean, come on, anyways, did they get married?
Speaker 1: They get married at the end of the first movie,
Speaker 1: right after only knowing each other for a few days. Yes,
Speaker 1: is that correct? Yeah? Which is I mean, like, that's
Speaker 1: true love canon, But it's also like Shrek too shows
Speaker 1: the consequences of true love canon, which is that you
Speaker 1: don't realize that your husband is so insecure that he's
Speaker 1: ruining your life. So I don't know. I did appreciate
Speaker 1: like that in the moments that Fiona does get to
Speaker 1: advocate for herself, I do. I generally liked those moments
Speaker 1: where Shrek is being it's so complicated because it's like
Speaker 1: he is right that her family sucks and that they
Speaker 1: don't have her best interests at heart, but the way
Speaker 1: he expresses that is very is a very selfish, not
Speaker 1: empathetic towards his new wife, So it's like his communication
Speaker 1: is bad, but and then and then when Fiona is
Speaker 1: just like, well, Shrek, I don't think you have like
Speaker 1: really considered how much I've changed my life to be
Speaker 1: with you, And I'm like, damn, she's right, she's right,
Speaker 1: She's right. Damn it. What a complicated relationship. This is
Speaker 1: truly marriage story scenes from a marriage more like the
Speaker 1: Shrek franchise. Okay, Sjamie, wowie, wow, we're breaking is wide open.
Speaker 1: I wish the Shrek kissed Fiona's armpit like they do
Speaker 1: in much. I haven't even seen the show. I just
Speaker 1: know that Oscar Isaac kisses Jessica Chaps Nate's aren't yeah,
Speaker 1: I all I need to know. I watch that scene.
Speaker 1: I don't get anything about what's happening there, but um yeah,
Speaker 1: Shrek and Fiona's relationship crumbles, which like provides the impetus
Speaker 1: for I. Shrek does everything he does in the movie,
Speaker 1: which I guess like lends a discussion about the theme
Speaker 1: of the movie or like, you know, the message, the
Speaker 1: moral of the story kind of thing, which is, you know,
Speaker 1: something I appreciate. Again, I think the first movie handled
Speaker 1: it more effectively, but the message of don't judge someone
Speaker 1: by their exterior appearance or you know, draw conclusions about
Speaker 1: them just because they're an ogre. What happens in this
Speaker 1: movie does communicate that message to some degree, but again,
Speaker 1: I feel like it gets a little muddled. And also
Speaker 1: it's like it just in a in like a franchise way.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, that was the message of the first movie, right,
Speaker 1: so you either need to explore something new or look
Speaker 1: at it from a different angle, or I don't know,
Speaker 1: something else. But the movie just sort of like, hey,
Speaker 1: remember and I understand like a common theme throughout a franchise,
Speaker 1: you know, something that like ties the franchise together. But yeah,
Speaker 1: when you just sort of this movie doesn't like it
Speaker 1: doesn't like build on that message, and it doesn't even
Speaker 1: communicate that message as effectively as the first movie did,
Speaker 1: and so it just feels like they just tried to
Speaker 1: do the same thing again, which is like a bummer
Speaker 1: because it's like Shrek has so many lessons to communicate
Speaker 1: to the world, you know, I mean, there is room
Speaker 1: for it there. The premise is ripe for a lot
Speaker 1: of like meaningful conversation and commentary on that, and the
Speaker 1: story that's set up here is like actually genuinely pretty
Speaker 1: interesting like the conflict between Shrek and Fiona, like, but
Speaker 1: then they just don't really I thought that this movie
Speaker 1: could have gone in a lot of different directions that
Speaker 1: have been more interesting. If, like, you know, this first
Speaker 1: the first movie is very much about Shrek's journey, and
Speaker 1: the second movie could have really focused on like Fiona
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how she fits in the world,
Speaker 1: because keep in mind, she just got out of a
Speaker 1: tower like less than two months ago. She's like, it's
Speaker 1: still you know, I know that it's like we don't
Speaker 1: want to like extremely harp on trauma in this children's movie,
Speaker 1: but it's like this could have been a cool way
Speaker 1: to explore her character and the fact that, you know,
Speaker 1: if this movie wants to be as like bringing contemporary
Speaker 1: themes and ideas to fairy tales as it says it
Speaker 1: wants to be, then like let's examine the idea of
Speaker 1: her being like a prisoner of her royal family parents,
Speaker 1: immediately going into a wife role and like being transferred
Speaker 1: from one controlling force to another controlling force, and like
Speaker 1: let's have her like figure herself out a little. Like
Speaker 1: I just feel like, yeah, I guess I'm just a
Speaker 1: princess Fiona's stand kind of just like, there's so much
Speaker 1: with this character that would be more interesting to explore
Speaker 1: than repeating the message of the first movie in a
Speaker 1: less effective way. Also, the movie could have explored her
Speaker 1: identity as a full time ogre now, because prior to
Speaker 1: this she had she lives half of her life as
Speaker 1: a human and half as an ogre and then decides
Speaker 1: to become a full time ogre and like what does
Speaker 1: that mean for her new identity in her her life now?
Speaker 1: Like there's yeah, there's so many other things are just
Speaker 1: like other directions the movie could have taken to examine
Speaker 1: these interesting things that it just doesn't really do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it feels like a wasted opportunity. However, when you think
Speaker 1: about it, was the song Accidentally in Love nominated for
Speaker 1: an Oscar? And the answer is yes, really yes, Counting
Speaker 1: curls Oscar nominated band the Counting Crows did they Was
Speaker 1: that an original song written for this movie? It had
Speaker 1: to have been, right if I got nominated for an Oscar? Yeah? Wow,
Speaker 1: they really handed the Counting Crows a golden opportunity that
Speaker 1: the Counting Crows, to their credit, did not waste, Because
Speaker 1: that's a that's a Bob. It's good they were not
Speaker 1: Who did they lose to? Who did they lose to? Um? So,
Speaker 1: Shrek was nominated, Shrek two, Shrek one was nominated for
Speaker 1: an Oscar for the Best Animated Feature and one. Shrek
Speaker 1: two was nominated and lost to The Incredibles, which is
Speaker 1: a much better movie, and that makes sense. Who did
Speaker 1: Counting Crows loose to? I feel like the Oscar for
Speaker 1: like original song, whoever wins? I'm always like, huh, it's
Speaker 1: like so many shitty songs of okay, let's say there's
Speaker 1: it was a song from a movie called The Motorcycle
Speaker 1: Diary is Oh that I haven't seen al Ultra Lado
Speaker 1: del rio is the name of this song. The Motorcycle
Speaker 1: Diary is good? What is that? Yes, it is. It's
Speaker 1: a gayl Garcia bernw my rush your crushed. So of
Speaker 1: course you've seen it. It's a biopic about early Jega Vera.
Speaker 1: Oh that's cool. Yeah right, that sounds way better than
Speaker 1: Shrek too. It's it's a very good movie. And again
Speaker 1: Gayle's in it and he's um hot. Not that that's important,
Speaker 1: which is what we learned from Shrek. Yeah. I was like,
Speaker 1: don't you fly in the face of the message of Shrek. Here,
Speaker 1: be careful, watch watch yourself. Yeah, well, well, I just
Speaker 1: wanted to let everyone know that, Yes, the Counting Cress
Speaker 1: are an OSCAR nominated. That's musical group, hilarious. Good for them.
Speaker 1: That for them. Do you have any other thoughts about
Speaker 1: the film Shrek two. I really don't think that I do.
Speaker 1: I think that you know, there was a lot more
Speaker 1: to talk about than I than I thought there would
Speaker 1: be as usual, and I realized that I, um, I
Speaker 1: I feel like Fiona because isn't like Shrek three. Like
Speaker 1: Shrek three, Fiona has to have five hundred babies. Fiona
Speaker 1: gets pregnant with a million Gregs and shregs. They have
Speaker 1: Shreks all her shregs hatch. Oh my god, that's the
Speaker 1: funniest thing I've ever heard. Um, yeah, that I haven't seen.
Speaker 1: I've only seen Shrek three once and it was a
Speaker 1: long time ago, and then I never saw a Shrek four.
Speaker 1: I think this, it's just like I feel like Fiona.
Speaker 1: For a character that starts really strong is forced into
Speaker 1: a series of very binary, boring roles as the and
Speaker 1: ties goes on. And that's my final thought. Not nice
Speaker 1: to her. Did Pussy Boots get its own Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Puss in Boots has a spin off and TV series.
Speaker 1: There's also something called Wait, Puss in Boots The Last Wish,
Speaker 1: which is a movie coming out in Wow. Good for Antonio,
Speaker 1: good good. I hope he's I hope those checks are clearing,
Speaker 1: you know, good for him. I cannot believe. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: And then the TV series. My friend worked on the
Speaker 1: Puss in Boots Netflix series. It sounds like it was fun. Wow,
Speaker 1: amazing story, Jane, Thank you. Um. Does the movie pass
Speaker 1: the Bechdel test that we think it does, but only
Speaker 1: the very few I wouldn't say in context. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say no, yeah, only because even if it does pass,
Speaker 1: it's a barely pass. And I don't think that the
Speaker 1: themes of the movie make get worth arguing for a
Speaker 1: potential pass. I'll say no, yeah, I think by our standards, no,
Speaker 1: because the few conversations I do remember between women, either
Speaker 1: Fiona and her mother or Fiona and the fairy Godmother,
Speaker 1: the subtext is still something about a man. Yeah. I yeah,
Speaker 1: let's just say no. Let's say no. It's been five years.
Speaker 1: We're authorities. No where the experts. Yeah, as far as
Speaker 1: our nipple scale goes on a scale of zero to
Speaker 1: five nipples, how well does the movie fair when examining
Speaker 1: it through an intersectional feminist lens. I don't remember exactly
Speaker 1: what each of us gave the first movie. I gave
Speaker 1: it one nipple. I'm giving Shrek two a half nipple.
Speaker 1: We went down, it got worse. Um between the we're
Speaker 1: the like awful Joe ooakes made at the expense of
Speaker 1: anyone who doesn't fit a very like cis gender gender
Speaker 1: binary quote unquote prescribed norm. Yes, all of those jokes
Speaker 1: are horrendous. The way that the women in the movie
Speaker 1: are generally not meaningfully included except for the villain. The
Speaker 1: fact that like the villain is a more active character
Speaker 1: than is ridiculous. The way that they're just you know,
Speaker 1: certain stereotypes at play, with the way Fiona is characterized
Speaker 1: as a like his wife ball and chain quote unquote
Speaker 1: type of character. It's just, yeah, it's it's all a mess.
Speaker 1: Donkey saying that his wife is moody. Come on, and
Speaker 1: then we don't even get to see her. Yeah, no, Dragon,
Speaker 1: I forgot about how that is also unjust. Wait, I
Speaker 1: swear to goodness that there's like a post credit scene.
Speaker 1: Was it in where the hell isn't see? Maybe I
Speaker 1: didn't watch post Maybe I didn't treat this enough like
Speaker 1: a Marvel movie, and I stopped watching when I thought
Speaker 1: the movie was over. Oh wait, yeah, here it is.
Speaker 1: Hang on, it's like kind of after the first batch
Speaker 1: of credits. Oh my god, I'm watching this on Hulu. Brave. Yep, yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1: This is a real thing. Dragon shows up. I didn't
Speaker 1: see to the ball after everyone's gone home and she
Speaker 1: has all of her dragon donkey babies. She's okay, Well,
Speaker 1: this does happen. I knew I wasn't imagines good. We
Speaker 1: just need to get one more extremely normative thing in
Speaker 1: before then, before we could go home. Cheez Louise is
Speaker 1: good grief. So who are you going to give your
Speaker 1: half nipple to? I have nipple goes to Puss in Boots,
Speaker 1: because I think Puss and Boots is the reason I
Speaker 1: loved this movie in two thousand four. You're not alone there,
Speaker 1: all right, I guess I'll meet you there. I'll give
Speaker 1: it a half nipple. I I feel like, I mean,
Speaker 1: for all the same reasons the jokes that are at
Speaker 1: the expense of marginalized communities in a children's movie that
Speaker 1: is always going to absolutely piss me the funk off
Speaker 1: because it's just like, it feels like even you know,
Speaker 1: more harmful than when they appear in movies for adults. Um,
Speaker 1: because it's just like, you know, creating transphobia at a
Speaker 1: very ground level for people with very squishy brains, and
Speaker 1: you can't you can't do that. Yeah, and then uh,
Speaker 1: you know, just the general like kind of undermining what
Speaker 1: was fun about the first movie by sidelining women and
Speaker 1: just being like, um, yeah, first year in jail and
Speaker 1: then you're in wife like this pipeline I don't love.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'll do a half nipple and I'm going
Speaker 1: to give it to the boot. You gave it to
Speaker 1: Puss and boots, I'm giving it to the Oh okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I gave my boot. Mine went to Puss and yours
Speaker 1: went to boot to boot. So now you know cats
Speaker 1: famously have how many nipples? Is that? Well, let me
Speaker 1: draw back to my cat facts knowledge. I believe it's
Speaker 1: eight nipples. Well, this one only has one, and half
Speaker 1: of it belongs to his boot bummer. Sorry, Puss Nikes,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe next time, maybe next movie. Well, well
Speaker 1: there you go, there you happy anniversary Kaala, Oh my gosh, Jamie,
Speaker 1: A happy anniversary to you. I love doing this show
Speaker 1: with you. I love how much how we've grown and
Speaker 1: we're constantly learning, and you know, and knocking out bangers
Speaker 1: of episodes, if I may say so myself, not us
Speaker 1: knocking out bangers. Uh no, but truly I love doing
Speaker 1: the show with you. I love you, And let's do
Speaker 1: fifty more years. Okay it's been Yeah, someday we're gonna
Speaker 1: be like it's been eighty four years. It's been eighty
Speaker 1: four years and I can still smell the fresh pod.
Speaker 1: The microphones had never been used, the zoom had never
Speaker 1: been logged in. We could keep going. Bechtel Cast was
Speaker 1: the podcast of dreams and it was see getting around.
Speaker 1: Um we I love you. I love doing this show.
Speaker 1: Here's to five hundred more years. We'll do Shrek three
Speaker 1: for our ten year anniversary. Wow. Wow, I'll hold you
Speaker 1: to that. Well, let's see if the if, the world,
Speaker 1: the integrity of the planet we live on last that long.
Speaker 1: Can't wait. And thank you to our listeners for five
Speaker 1: years of incredible memorials. Yeah, We wouldn't have continued to
Speaker 1: release episodes of the show if no one was listening,
Speaker 1: So truly we owe you a debt of gratitude. Listeners,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Whether this is your first episode,
Speaker 1: or whether you've been with us from episode one, or
Speaker 1: you came somewhere in the middle, or whether you hated
Speaker 1: this so much that this is your last episode you're
Speaker 1: out of here. You know what. The spectrum is vast,
Speaker 1: But truly, thank you for for listening. We wouldn't be
Speaker 1: doing the show without you. Thank you for helping us
Speaker 1: learn and grow. That didn't happen in a vacuum. So
Speaker 1: our listeners have been a major part of why the show,
Speaker 1: you know, keeps improving and the reason that we keep
Speaker 1: wanting to do it. So and thank you to everyone
Speaker 1: who helps make the show. Thank you to Sophie, Thank
Speaker 1: you to Aristotle, thank you to Jack, Thanks to all
Speaker 1: of our wonderful friends and collaborators, and to all of
Speaker 1: our guests. And truly, you know, it sounds like we're
Speaker 1: accepting your award a reward and award. Um we're not.
Speaker 1: We've never counting, they never won an award. Yeah, we're talking.
Speaker 1: It's an honor to be nominated, as I'm sure the
Speaker 1: counting crows have aggressively said, many times, oh goodness, sorry, bye,
Speaker 1: bye bye