Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcasts, where we
Speaker 1: focus on all things mental health, personal development, and all
Speaker 1: the small decisions we can make to become the best
Speaker 1: possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Harden Bradford,
Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To find more information
Speaker 1: and to get resources, visit the website at Therapy for
Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com. And while I hope you love
Speaker 1: listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not
Speaker 1: meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a
Speaker 1: licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, welcome to session seven
Speaker 1: of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for joining me again this week. So, as I
Speaker 1: mentioned before, or May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and
Speaker 1: in honor of this all month long, we'll be discussing relationships.
Speaker 1: So last week we discussed friendships, and this week, in
Speaker 1: honor of Mother's Day coming up this weekend, we'll be
Speaker 1: discussing relationships with mom. So I want to also make
Speaker 1: sure that I say a very happy Mother's Day to
Speaker 1: all the moms out there, and want to make sure
Speaker 1: to send us special healing and positive thoughts to those
Speaker 1: who may be struggling with grief related to losing mom,
Speaker 1: are struggling with a strained relationship with your mom. So
Speaker 1: today I have a very special guest joining me for
Speaker 1: the No Copain Needed segment and we're going to be
Speaker 1: talking about strained mother daughter relationships. So today we are
Speaker 1: joined by Dr Pamela Thompson. She is a psychologist, professional
Speaker 1: life coach, speaker, and owner of Building Bridges to Better Lives.
Speaker 1: She has provided mental health services for individuals, couples, women's groups,
Speaker 1: and inmates since six She is also the author of
Speaker 1: Surviving Mama, an adult daughter's guide to overcoming strained mother
Speaker 1: daughter relationships, a work for which she earned a role
Speaker 1: in a therapeutic movie featured in Jewish film festivals worldwide
Speaker 1: entitled Look at Us Now Mother. She is most proud
Speaker 1: to participate in the network of providers associated with the
Speaker 1: nationally syndicated radio show New Life Live, which has guided
Speaker 1: her ability to integrate her clinical skills and knowledge with
Speaker 1: a biblical worldview for those who desire such. Her greatest
Speaker 1: passions include serving as a vessel for healing the wounded
Speaker 1: and broken hearted, as well as an illuminator of others
Speaker 1: hidden gifts and talents. Dr Thompson seeks to encourage and
Speaker 1: inspire others as a priority. She is a frequent presenter
Speaker 1: at community forums and workshops. She also deeply enjoys debunking
Speaker 1: the myth that psychology is just for crazy people, and
Speaker 1: has been sought out by media outlets across the country
Speaker 1: to help her to do such including Discovery, Fit and Health,
Speaker 1: Sesame Street, and the Oprah Winfrey Network. Dr Thompson is
Speaker 1: a rare native at Lantern and was educated at the
Speaker 1: University of Georgia and Journalism and Public Relations and at
Speaker 1: the Georgia School of Professional Psychology, where she earned her
Speaker 1: doctorate in clinical psychology. So I've had the opportunity to
Speaker 1: see Dr Thompson speak and have um dinner in lunch
Speaker 1: with her when she spoke at the University of Georgia,
Speaker 1: and can tell you that she is absolutely one of
Speaker 1: the loveliest people you will ever meet. So I definitely
Speaker 1: think you will enjoy this conversation and hope that you
Speaker 1: find it helpful and healing if you are in need
Speaker 1: of such. So thank you so much for agreeing to
Speaker 1: talk with me, Dr Thompson. I'm very excited to have
Speaker 1: you on the podcast today. Thank you so much. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm delighted to be here absolutely so. I know I
Speaker 1: shared with you by email. UM, but Reviving Mama is
Speaker 1: like one of my absolute favorite books I recommended to
Speaker 1: clients all the time, UM, and so definitely in honor
Speaker 1: of Mother's Day and you know, sometimes the difficult relationships
Speaker 1: we have with mothers, I wanted to have you on
Speaker 1: the podcast. So can you tell me a little bit
Speaker 1: about what inspired you to write Surviving Mama? Yes, so,
Speaker 1: I'll make this as brief as I can. UM. In
Speaker 1: a nutshell, I was aware of that myself and several
Speaker 1: of my girlfriends as we we got older and processed more,
Speaker 1: reflected on more, we all began to see some challenges
Speaker 1: in our mother daughter relationships and we began to realize
Speaker 1: of again as the years went by, that those challenges
Speaker 1: were persistent and they weren't likely to change. And so that,
Speaker 1: in combination with the fact that I have a private
Speaker 1: practice that where I cater to women significantly and have
Speaker 1: interview thousands of women in my career, at this point,
Speaker 1: I also began to see the same patterns hangs together
Speaker 1: in my clients, and so I I just felt compelled
Speaker 1: to write a topic I mean to write a book
Speaker 1: on the topic because it was so prevalent in the
Speaker 1: in the progression of a woman's life, and usually the
Speaker 1: change is necessary for the relationship to be UM to
Speaker 1: continue to be loving and peace field, we're going to
Speaker 1: have to take place in the adult daughter as opposed
Speaker 1: to the mom. So as that became a real focus
Speaker 1: for me and UM. At the time I wrote the book,
Speaker 1: my my mother was living with us at for for
Speaker 1: for the last five years of her life and social path,
Speaker 1: so I had I had ample fresh data that would
Speaker 1: you know, just sort of remind me about how important
Speaker 1: this topic was and how it needed to be treated
Speaker 1: with effect. Because the whole idea was really to figure
Speaker 1: out how you could honor your mother more so as
Speaker 1: opposed to get into this place of bashing her and
Speaker 1: not making the attempt to even understand her any longer.
Speaker 1: So can you talk about and you do an excellent
Speaker 1: job of this in the book. Can you talk about
Speaker 1: some of the cultural pieces that might make it difficult
Speaker 1: for black women to set boundaries with or to describe
Speaker 1: the relationship with mama as unhealthy. Yes, Unfortunately, in the
Speaker 1: African American culture, there is this epidemic of single moms,
Speaker 1: and I think maybe the latest statistic is somewhere hovering
Speaker 1: in the low seventies, low seventies uh percent of women
Speaker 1: who are raising their children alone. Um. And so there
Speaker 1: is a a strained dynamic that is inherent in that
Speaker 1: type of setup only because one woman can't do it
Speaker 1: all and she gets tired, and she's stressed, and she's preoccupied,
Speaker 1: and she's trying to wear two hats and one of
Speaker 1: those hats shouldn't be a hat that she has to wear,
Speaker 1: one needs to wear, and so um, the strain in
Speaker 1: that kind of set up for the mother is is extraordinary.
Speaker 1: And so while there are women who do it every
Speaker 1: day and many who do it extraordinarily well. And I
Speaker 1: do believe that most mothers do the very best that
Speaker 1: they can with what they have at the time, that's
Speaker 1: the key phrase. With what they have at the time
Speaker 1: with them, money, patients, relationship with God, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: character building experiences, all that. Um. Nevertheless, there are some
Speaker 1: inherent voids in the setup of a single parent household
Speaker 1: that make it I think a recipe for a more
Speaker 1: strained relationship potentially between the mother and Dora. And you also,
Speaker 1: UM talk a lot about um, you know, just the
Speaker 1: reverence that we give to mothers in most in most
Speaker 1: society culture, but I think there's a particular reverence in
Speaker 1: the African American culture related to mom. Yeah. Can you
Speaker 1: talk more about that. Yes, I'm so glad you said that,
Speaker 1: because that is the other part of the story. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because when you only have one parent, um, she has
Speaker 1: to be your everything. And so there is a tendency
Speaker 1: in our communities to confuse Mama with God and to
Speaker 1: think of her as your only provider, your only caretaker.
Speaker 1: You're only um person who is capable of loving you unconditionally,
Speaker 1: and in many cases she is that, but she feels
Speaker 1: not God. And so we UH considerate taboo generally speaking
Speaker 1: to even say or have a thought that is about
Speaker 1: Mama not necessarily being uh as mature as I would
Speaker 1: like her to be, or as in my corner as
Speaker 1: i would like her to be, or as available for
Speaker 1: me as I'd like her to be, because it seems
Speaker 1: mean spirited or or selfish. And so people can just
Speaker 1: be a gas at the very idea that one would
Speaker 1: verbalize something negative about your mother because she is on
Speaker 1: a pedestal and um, she hasn't do it a lot,
Speaker 1: and she has had to sacrifice a lot, and and everybody, uh,
Speaker 1: I think gets that to a certain extent, But that
Speaker 1: still does not mean that she is God. And so
Speaker 1: we get that confused, and we'll be serving at the
Speaker 1: altar of Mama instead of at the altar of the
Speaker 1: almighty God. And there is there's always a problem there,
Speaker 1: there's always a recipe for some kind of destruction to
Speaker 1: come out of that. That's a very powerful image, like
Speaker 1: serving at the altar of Mama as opposed to our
Speaker 1: higher higher power. Yes, and what the answer with the
Speaker 1: means actually is that if Mama said it, it must
Speaker 1: be right. And if Mama did it to than the
Speaker 1: right thing to do, unquestionable, unquestionably. And so because there's uh,
Speaker 1: there's a hesitation to challenge her judgment. Um, we can
Speaker 1: be going down the wrong road just because Mama said
Speaker 1: it was right. And so unless we get outside of
Speaker 1: our family box and outside of our our discomforts with
Speaker 1: challenging her and and status and the status quo that
Speaker 1: she brings to decision making and problem solving, um, we
Speaker 1: may not ever know that, you know what, there is
Speaker 1: another way to look at this, or there is actually
Speaker 1: a way that represents absolute truth if you are a
Speaker 1: student of the Bible, or there is, you know, um
Speaker 1: an alternative perspective that is worthy of as much respect
Speaker 1: as I give to my mother's perspective. So if we
Speaker 1: just stay in the family box and we never differentiate
Speaker 1: from Mama and them as we say in the South,
Speaker 1: and what people think about Mama in that particular, sir, goal,
Speaker 1: and her teaching and her precepts, then we could forever
Speaker 1: be making uh decisions from a distorted place and making
Speaker 1: decisions for our lives that are actually based on lives
Speaker 1: and untruth and not on God's absolute truth. So can
Speaker 1: you talk some about some of the reasons why Mama
Speaker 1: may have um some issues going on that may make
Speaker 1: it difficult to be in relationship with her. Yes, And
Speaker 1: I think this is where I try, and both very
Speaker 1: much so to not make this about bashing Mama, but
Speaker 1: about understand more profoundly and and just more deeply. And
Speaker 1: so I guess I'll just use my own mom as
Speaker 1: an example to best illustrate an answer to what you
Speaker 1: have asked. My mother was was a very anxious woman.
Speaker 1: I mean, I loved her death. She clearly loved me,
Speaker 1: and you know, it wasn't about a lack of love
Speaker 1: in our relationship. Um. But she had been one of
Speaker 1: ten children, and she was the ninth of those ten children,
Speaker 1: and they were very poor, and they had survived the
Speaker 1: Great Depression of the thirties, and her father had died
Speaker 1: of untreated diabetes when she was a toddler. And her
Speaker 1: mother was a domestic worker and had to work six
Speaker 1: days a week, and and so there's so typically in
Speaker 1: particularly in the Southern African American family, there are lots
Speaker 1: of children, lots of children, so there may be it's
Speaker 1: it's it's common for for that generation that my mother
Speaker 1: belonged to to be one of nineteen eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen.
Speaker 1: And so the priority of the day was around eating
Speaker 1: and surviving and just getting through the basic tasks of
Speaker 1: the day. And so there wasn't a lot of time
Speaker 1: to sit down and help you grow and develop as
Speaker 1: an individual and and play patty Cake and you know
Speaker 1: here about all the ups and downs of your day.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, let me facilitate you and your
Speaker 1: girlfriends um getting together and having a special you know
Speaker 1: day in the park. I mean, it just wasn't a
Speaker 1: lot of time and energy, but that kind of thing
Speaker 1: not to mention the history of racism and the survival
Speaker 1: required around that. And so in my mother's case, she
Speaker 1: had an older sister who became pregnant when she was
Speaker 1: in high school, which was extremely taboo for the family,
Speaker 1: and her sister could no longer continue schooling, and so
Speaker 1: she had to drop out of school and get a job.
Speaker 1: And so my mother, as a preteen, had to become
Speaker 1: her niece's caretake on and so that meant that she
Speaker 1: could not socialize with her peers because she had to
Speaker 1: go home and see about her niece. So I'm saying
Speaker 1: all this to say, to make a losstery short, that
Speaker 1: because she was preoccupied was becoming a caretaker for her
Speaker 1: her child when she was only thirteen or so, she
Speaker 1: missed a lot of her developmental mouthstones in developing a
Speaker 1: healthy social life with peters. And so she wasn't going
Speaker 1: to the movies or you know, hanging out after school
Speaker 1: or whatever it may have been the case, because she
Speaker 1: had to go home. And so that stunted her ability
Speaker 1: to have easy and comfortable social relationships the rest of
Speaker 1: her life. And so there was a lot that I
Speaker 1: didn't understand about her reclusive ways and her anxieties and
Speaker 1: her downright fears of people. That um, that was something
Speaker 1: for me to deal with growing up, because I was
Speaker 1: just the opposite. I was always very easy and comfortable
Speaker 1: with people. And so I think her story, while it
Speaker 1: is unique to her, is not um an uncommon one
Speaker 1: in the sense that when there are large families, as
Speaker 1: we typically have in American African American stuth um, or
Speaker 1: when there are conditions of a Russians and um, just
Speaker 1: you know, intense pressure on a family to do what
Speaker 1: they can to survive, it stands to reason that a
Speaker 1: lot of folks are gonna leave home without having really
Speaker 1: developed a sense of self and a sense of comfort
Speaker 1: with self. And the other thing I think that can
Speaker 1: can be pervasive in our families historically is that that um,
Speaker 1: that emotional piece, that softer, kinder, gentler tone of voice,
Speaker 1: and the allowance for feelings to come to the surface
Speaker 1: and be expressed. Uh, you know, and our families can
Speaker 1: be sorely lacking. And so when new generations come along
Speaker 1: and they have a different emotional vocabulary and they're living
Speaker 1: at a different time with different expectations, there is a
Speaker 1: cultural class and a clash and a generational gap between
Speaker 1: mothers and daughters where they really struggle to understand each
Speaker 1: other because we come from different times and places and
Speaker 1: there are different priorities placed on those um on those
Speaker 1: environments in which each grew up in. And so what
Speaker 1: we're looking at each other like like you know dogs
Speaker 1: do when they don't understand something, and they kind of
Speaker 1: tilt their head to the side, like huh, it just
Speaker 1: won't compute, and so they'll be all kinds of clashes
Speaker 1: when really what we need is a little deeper understanding. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that's one of the things I think you do
Speaker 1: so beautifully in the book is that there is no
Speaker 1: mom bashing. It really is about helping to facilitate these
Speaker 1: deeper conversations and really understanding some of the context for
Speaker 1: why some moms have acted and behaved in the ways
Speaker 1: that they have. Yes, Yes, And I think when we
Speaker 1: can understand that, at least we may not be able
Speaker 1: to change it. And and that's one of the things
Speaker 1: I don't think I actually say this in the book,
Speaker 1: but I've said it in many a talk, is that
Speaker 1: we can't change mama, but we can change the way
Speaker 1: we process her. So instead of expecting her to be
Speaker 1: somebody who should have known how to love me, and
Speaker 1: you'd have known how to communicate with me, and shame
Speaker 1: on her that she didn't get me and she didn't,
Speaker 1: she didn't play peddicaid with me, and she didn't tell
Speaker 1: me she loved me, and she keeps me in my
Speaker 1: forehead when I needed to be kissed and she didn't.
Speaker 1: She didn't, she didn't. Instead of just continuing to go
Speaker 1: down that lane, Um, it helps to understand that we
Speaker 1: were likely expecting something from my mother's that they were
Speaker 1: incapable of delivering. They were not equipped to deliver whatever
Speaker 1: that unique thing was that you think you needed in
Speaker 1: your childhood and in your growth. And I think it
Speaker 1: also helps to balance that against the fact that nobody
Speaker 1: gets perfect parents and nobody gets perfect childhood, and people
Speaker 1: buying laws do the best they can with what they
Speaker 1: have to get up and so it becomes incumbent upon
Speaker 1: us to get those needs met in other ways and
Speaker 1: through other people and give give mama break. So you've
Speaker 1: already kind of alluded to some of this, But how
Speaker 1: can somebody begin to identify the unhealthy dynamics that may
Speaker 1: exist in the relationship with their mom and what can
Speaker 1: they do to address the issues. Yeah, that's a great question,
Speaker 1: and it it does move us in the direction of
Speaker 1: actually solving a problem or dilemma as opposed to staying
Speaker 1: in this place of complaint and grief and misery and
Speaker 1: blame and all that unforgiveness. Let me just put influences
Speaker 1: on that unforgiveness, because that certainly works against the one
Speaker 1: who holds the unforgiveness. And so, um, one of the
Speaker 1: things that I found, and I continue to find across
Speaker 1: the board and in my my clients and friends and whatnot,
Speaker 1: is that the common thread seems to be that the
Speaker 1: mother has at some point stopped growing, and she has
Speaker 1: stopped living, She has stopped developed in her own friendships,
Speaker 1: her own hobbies, her own interest, and she now as
Speaker 1: she gets older, depends almost exclusively on the daughter or
Speaker 1: certain family members to meet all of her needs. And
Speaker 1: let's let's just say one daughter offenses and this is
Speaker 1: this is exactly what happened with my mother. In fact,
Speaker 1: she depended on me to be her her confidant, her girlfriend,
Speaker 1: her shopping buddy, her her you know, her interpreter for
Speaker 1: the world. And um, you know no one person can
Speaker 1: meet the need of any other human being, and so
Speaker 1: that's always a recipe for disaster. And so that's that's
Speaker 1: one thing to recognize. Is there a way that I
Speaker 1: can uh connect my mother to other outlets, other social
Speaker 1: outlets she might be able to receive from slowly but surely,
Speaker 1: where some of this pressure is taken off of me
Speaker 1: to be her one and only outlet and interpreter of
Speaker 1: the world. UM. The other thing is, I think daughters
Speaker 1: who become UM almost exclusively focused on what they didn't
Speaker 1: get from their mothers, and they lose sight of all
Speaker 1: the things they did get. And I would like to
Speaker 1: think that as we all get older, and particularly people
Speaker 1: in our field as psychologists who really do get to
Speaker 1: see firsthand what horristic mothering looks like and get to
Speaker 1: see what abuse has done to people, and what abandonment
Speaker 1: has done and neglect has done, and and then you
Speaker 1: look at your mom and you want to just run
Speaker 1: and just thank her, you know, just thank you for
Speaker 1: all that you did and all that you were UM,
Speaker 1: because at least I was safe, or at least I
Speaker 1: was educated, or at least I was cared for, at
Speaker 1: least I was closed at least I, you know, I
Speaker 1: had a stable home. Whatever the circumstances may be, there
Speaker 1: are some wonderful things that she very likely imparted to
Speaker 1: you and UM that guide you and make you the
Speaker 1: worthwhile human being that you are today. So we do
Speaker 1: have to change the focus are from the what I
Speaker 1: didn't get to the what I did get and very
Speaker 1: likely that lists out numbers be what I didn't get,
Speaker 1: UM list hands down. UM. I think in a nutshell,
Speaker 1: those would be the two things that the daughter has
Speaker 1: to adjust for expectations and the mother UM has to
Speaker 1: be encouraged to develop some other social outlets outside of
Speaker 1: the daughter. So you you did talk about um, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of mom wanting the daughter to be everything um
Speaker 1: and really how that sets up an unhealthy dynamic? Are
Speaker 1: there other themes like that that might exist that you know,
Speaker 1: like if if if someone's listening and thinking like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: is this is an unhealthy dynamic that I had with
Speaker 1: my mom? Are there other things like that that you
Speaker 1: could point them to, like besides just the mom needing
Speaker 1: them to be like their shopping buddy and their confid
Speaker 1: down and everything. Yes, um, yes, there So if we
Speaker 1: keep drilling down on that. On that question, I think
Speaker 1: one of the other things that daughters do is you
Speaker 1: keep hoping that one day your mother is going to
Speaker 1: get it, and you prepare to have these talks with
Speaker 1: her and these you know, these coming to Jesus moments
Speaker 1: where you think, if I just tell my truths and
Speaker 1: unveil myself to her, she's gonna someday, you know, get it,
Speaker 1: and you know, throw these apologies and this remorse at
Speaker 1: me that I've always been longing for and waiting for.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, unless you have quite the mature mother who
Speaker 1: is quite open um to growing and learning and hearing,
Speaker 1: that's not happening. That's that's just not coming. And because
Speaker 1: mothering is such a hard job, it's the hardest job
Speaker 1: on the planet. Um, you know, it's very difficult for
Speaker 1: mother to even process that, Um, wow, I did all
Speaker 1: these things wrong, and I should, you know, apologize to you.
Speaker 1: When you think about the countless hours that they spent
Speaker 1: making sacrifices for you, you know, it's hard and if not,
Speaker 1: if not an next to impossible for them to receive
Speaker 1: that kind of feedback. So I would say, don't expect
Speaker 1: all these things from her that she's not able to deliver. Um.
Speaker 1: My phrase of that in the book is we've got
Speaker 1: to stop expecting an elephant to me out, because elephants
Speaker 1: dont me out. You know, cats me out, dogs bark,
Speaker 1: and cow's move, and so we're not shocked when cats
Speaker 1: me out and dogs bark because that's what they do,
Speaker 1: that's what their nature is, that's what their character is.
Speaker 1: So we shouldn't be shocked. Likewise, when a mother who
Speaker 1: is self absorbed and self absorbed, or when a mother
Speaker 1: who's an alcoholic is an alcoholic, or when a mother
Speaker 1: who is a complainer complains, we shouldn't be shocked because
Speaker 1: they're in character. And I will literally say that to
Speaker 1: people too. I suggest to people that you literally say
Speaker 1: that out loud when they do what they you, that
Speaker 1: you would say, oh, that's right, that's right, she's in character. Okay,
Speaker 1: let me not be shocked and let me not expect
Speaker 1: something different to happen today, because this is who she is.
Speaker 1: That's one thing UM I think, UM, you know boundaries.
Speaker 1: Daughters have to learn how to set boundaries, and you
Speaker 1: have to learn how to stand up to her. So
Speaker 1: I think one of the big mistakes daughters make UM
Speaker 1: is not developing themselves as well, where they can get
Speaker 1: comforted and have giggles and lasts and in a full
Speaker 1: life outside of what's happening in their relationship with mother,
Speaker 1: where where her antics don't affect it affect them as much.
Speaker 1: You gotta have some fuel in the tank. And many
Speaker 1: of us um will look to somebody to blame. Why
Speaker 1: not Mom, for that's the fact that my life didn't blossom,
Speaker 1: or you know, I'm unhappy, or I never was able
Speaker 1: to date or find a man or whatever. We has
Speaker 1: Mom this or that, and and when we stopped blaming
Speaker 1: her for you know, how she may have impacted our
Speaker 1: life development, we set ourselves free to go about the
Speaker 1: business of attracting friends, people, places, and circumstances into our
Speaker 1: life that give us that fuel in the trank, so
Speaker 1: that when we do right up against that brig wall
Speaker 1: that Mom can sometimes present, we're not as affected by it.
Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, I just had a little you know,
Speaker 1: bumping the road, but it didn't shut me down where
Speaker 1: I had to throw a temper tantrum and scream and
Speaker 1: yell and shout or be devastated that once again she
Speaker 1: didn't give me what I thought she should have those.
Speaker 1: There are some great suggestions like times and thank you
Speaker 1: so much for that. So what would you say? Or
Speaker 1: I want to get your thoughts on this, um. So
Speaker 1: you know, let's say a daughter has tried all of
Speaker 1: these things, has tried to have these conversations, has tried
Speaker 1: to set boundaries, you know, has tried kind of endless
Speaker 1: amounts of strategies to have a healthier dynamic with mom,
Speaker 1: and just still feels like it's not going anywhere. Um.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like there's ever a point where it
Speaker 1: might be necessary to cut ties with your mother? You know, yes,
Speaker 1: in a nutshell, is the answer. And I say that,
Speaker 1: m very um ah with great caution, because I do
Speaker 1: know that it is the right thing to do, the honorable,
Speaker 1: the correct thing to do, the biblical thing to do
Speaker 1: to honor your mother. And I think you know, this
Speaker 1: sort of touches on the last question as well, that
Speaker 1: many of us get that confused that honoring mother what
Speaker 1: that looks like as an adult. So as an adult,
Speaker 1: it doesn't look like obeying her. It doesn't look like
Speaker 1: saying yes to everything that she says or suggests for
Speaker 1: your life or wants you to do for her today. Um,
Speaker 1: that is, that's not what honoring her looks like. In men,
Speaker 1: any of us get that confused, and we exhaust ourselves.
Speaker 1: We deplete ourselves trying to please this person who makes
Speaker 1: these you know, sort of always capable. Let me just say,
Speaker 1: in some relationships with making some narcissistic demands upon our time,
Speaker 1: our energy, our money, you know everything, and so resentment
Speaker 1: can easily set up. And um, this is why I
Speaker 1: say all the boundaries are our friends. We have to
Speaker 1: learn how to say no, even to mama. We have
Speaker 1: to learn how to prioritize our time and and learn
Speaker 1: really what it means to honor mother. So if you've
Speaker 1: got a mother, and unfortunately there are many women who do,
Speaker 1: in my heart always goes out to them. I feel
Speaker 1: like they get especially left out at Mother's Day. Um,
Speaker 1: with all the beautiful and glowing things that people have
Speaker 1: to say about moms, And I always am aware that
Speaker 1: there are those who are within earshot of those wonderful
Speaker 1: sermons who are like, wow, that has not been my experience.
Speaker 1: And so I um have, oh my goodness, and boatload
Speaker 1: of stories like that on my belt. And so yes,
Speaker 1: there there are some mothers out there that are really
Speaker 1: really toxic and really dangerous for uh you know, uh
Speaker 1: being an instrument of developing anybody's character or um confidence
Speaker 1: in the world, or just uh you know, helping people
Speaker 1: feel a sense of love and connection. There are some
Speaker 1: mothers who work against that at every single solitary term.
Speaker 1: So what I say in the book and frequently in
Speaker 1: my practice is that some people you have to learn
Speaker 1: how to love from afar and I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: praying for that individual. I would always suggest that be
Speaker 1: that be on uh that be number one on the list,
Speaker 1: that prayer would be a consistent way of communicating on
Speaker 1: behalf of your mother and also sending to be a
Speaker 1: card every now and the end, it just says, hey,
Speaker 1: thinking about you saw something you know at the store
Speaker 1: today that made me, you know, remember a favorite time
Speaker 1: that we had and just wanted to say hey, in
Speaker 1: touch base and send a card or as you feel
Speaker 1: able or lad maybe sending money when you can if
Speaker 1: you can. And so finding ways like that to stay
Speaker 1: connected to a woman who gave you life, I think
Speaker 1: can be extremely necessary and important for some women who
Speaker 1: have unusually toxic mothers. And of course you're talking to
Speaker 1: somebody who has done a lot of work in women's prisons.
Speaker 1: In fact, I do some work still at a women's
Speaker 1: prison in zebul And, Georgia. And so, I mean I've
Speaker 1: talked with women whose mother's introduced them to prostitution or
Speaker 1: introduced them to crack, or watch them be sexually violated
Speaker 1: by a boyfriend or you know, gave them their first uh,
Speaker 1: I don't know, their first joint and you know, which
Speaker 1: led to them having problems with addiction on and off.
Speaker 1: And I mean I've talked to some really just wow,
Speaker 1: just some stories that just make you ache with uh,
Speaker 1: compassion for what somebody has gone through. So there are
Speaker 1: some people out there that are extremely dangerous and yet nevertheless,
Speaker 1: this is the woman that gave you life. And there
Speaker 1: are there are reasons why God would have you come
Speaker 1: through that particular vessel. And I talked about that a
Speaker 1: little bit at the end of the book. It would
Speaker 1: you like me to elaborate on that some of those reasons. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I would just say, as as I can say
Speaker 1: at the end of the book, that people come you know,
Speaker 1: there's a bigger, bigger plan and and and releasing our
Speaker 1: own thoughts, our own limited thoughts about what that plan
Speaker 1: is is part of healing. And so in my particular
Speaker 1: case with my mother, who was very reclusive and who
Speaker 1: was very very different from me, very very different. Um.
Speaker 1: One of the one of the blessings of that, and
Speaker 1: that's what I encouraged people to do, is to always
Speaker 1: look for the silver lining. What is the silver lining
Speaker 1: as to, you know, what, why can I get out
Speaker 1: of this relationship that had some real shortcomings for me?
Speaker 1: And for me it was that, UM, I very much
Speaker 1: learned how to interact with people who are very different
Speaker 1: from me and to have um, you know, compassion for
Speaker 1: people who were very very different and had very different
Speaker 1: experiences than ideas, such as I had to do with
Speaker 1: my mom. Um. So that's one of the ways that
Speaker 1: she blessed me with her differences. And you know, those
Speaker 1: differences used to cause us a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of ankst. Um. She also had a lot of health problems.
Speaker 1: And she was a junk food junkie. She was a
Speaker 1: Southern cook. She loved to cook, and she's a great cook,
Speaker 1: and she also loved junk food. And she got older
Speaker 1: and so um, she had all the health problems. And
Speaker 1: so I got to witness that as a child, like
Speaker 1: we would be in and out of the hospital with
Speaker 1: this ailment or this thing and uh. And so today
Speaker 1: I am very health conscious because my mother taught me
Speaker 1: indelibly the way not to eat, by the way that
Speaker 1: she lived her life. Inadvertently, that was the message for me,
Speaker 1: don't go that way because I've seen where that path goes.
Speaker 1: Let's go this way because I want to choose something differently.
Speaker 1: And so that is something I credit her for and
Speaker 1: honor her for today, that she taught me how not
Speaker 1: to eat and how not to age in that way,
Speaker 1: and I love her for it. So I think we
Speaker 1: can all do that if we dig deeply enough and
Speaker 1: look at how our lives took a certain turn. Specifically, specifically,
Speaker 1: I want to pronounce this on that word because of
Speaker 1: what I modeled our mother's model for us or didn't
Speaker 1: model for us. Yeah, I think I think that that's
Speaker 1: really great insight. And you are kind of touching on
Speaker 1: um the final question, which is how do you think
Speaker 1: that healing can happen after you know somebody has had
Speaker 1: these difficult relationships with their mom, Like, what would healing
Speaker 1: begin to look like for a daughter? Well, I think
Speaker 1: for the adult, uh, daughter who is I repeat it
Speaker 1: maturing in her own right, because this healing does not
Speaker 1: happen without a maturing process taking place. And for me,
Speaker 1: because I have a faith based, faith based practice, also
Speaker 1: a growing relationship in Christ and a prayer life that
Speaker 1: is blossoming and dedicated and consistent. Um. But anyway that
Speaker 1: havn't been said, I would say, it's it's the notion
Speaker 1: of release. You know, I make a conscious effort of
Speaker 1: releasing this person, uh from you know, any debt to me.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know how the Lord's Prayer says, forgive
Speaker 1: us our debts, as we forgive our debt tours, and
Speaker 1: so you know, we forgive those who we think, you know,
Speaker 1: owe us something because really, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: particularly once you become a grown person, nobody owes you anything.
Speaker 1: And so uh definitely that's the first step is releasing
Speaker 1: and realizing that you're wasting a lot of energy, um,
Speaker 1: you know, nursing these old wounds and and wishing things
Speaker 1: would be different and and wishing she would get it.
Speaker 1: And there's just so much lost energy in that. And
Speaker 1: as I've already mentioned, um, we all are responsible for
Speaker 1: living the fullest life that we can possibly live, and
Speaker 1: so uh, there's you know, as your life develops and
Speaker 1: your friendship's blossom and you have a sense of per
Speaker 1: us in direction about your own life, the things of
Speaker 1: yesteryear or the hurts of yesteryear begin to hail in comparison,
Speaker 1: and then you certainly want to attract people into your
Speaker 1: life who can help you with that healing process, because
Speaker 1: none of us lives a good life alone. And so
Speaker 1: that might mean therapy, which of course I would recommend,
Speaker 1: and that might need a new circle of friends, because
Speaker 1: you may find yourself stuff with some friends who continue
Speaker 1: to help you be agitated about what your mother did
Speaker 1: and continue to help you dwell in that negativity because
Speaker 1: they themselves need the company, you know, saying misery loves company.
Speaker 1: And so you may look up and say, you know,
Speaker 1: I need some new friends. I need some positive people
Speaker 1: who will understand what I've been through, but who will
Speaker 1: not encourage me to stay in this place of resentment
Speaker 1: and unforgive this um. So, yeah, in a nutshell, that
Speaker 1: would be you know a few suggestions, perfect perfect, So
Speaker 1: besides your book, are there other resources that you could
Speaker 1: offer to our audience about um kind of mother daughter
Speaker 1: relationships and things that may be helpful for them. I
Speaker 1: do know that New Life Ministries dot com is a
Speaker 1: network of Christian psychologists across the country, and I have
Speaker 1: read so many of their resources which are just dripping
Speaker 1: with wisdom and healing guidance. And they do have a book.
Speaker 1: One of their folks wrote a book called The Mom Factor,
Speaker 1: and um, I can't think of the author's name. But
Speaker 1: if if you go to that website of Google, New
Speaker 1: Life Ministries and go to their products section, they've just
Speaker 1: got a plethora of resources, pay and books and whatnot.
Speaker 1: But one of the books is called The Mom Factor.
Speaker 1: And then they also have a series of books on
Speaker 1: boundaries which I consider to be the golden standard. One
Speaker 1: is called just plain Old Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud,
Speaker 1: and one is called well. They have others that won't
Speaker 1: apply to this conversation boundaries and marriage boundaries and dating
Speaker 1: boundaries with kids, um, but the one just called boundaries
Speaker 1: is what I consider a golden We have to learn
Speaker 1: how to set boundaries and to be a third ist,
Speaker 1: and to do so in love. And also there is
Speaker 1: of course the Bible which changes your heart. You know,
Speaker 1: books and psychology and um, you know the things of
Speaker 1: the world that a man made are capable of helping
Speaker 1: you to change your behavior and some of your thought processes.
Speaker 1: But really it is the word of God that changes
Speaker 1: your heart. And unless your heartest trans on um, it's
Speaker 1: easy to fall back on the same old faults and
Speaker 1: the same old behaviors that became your safe haven once
Speaker 1: upon a time in a distorted kind of way. So
Speaker 1: it really is uh, it really is God's word that
Speaker 1: that gives you a new heart. As the Word says,
Speaker 1: he will remove your heart of stone and give you
Speaker 1: a heart of flesh. So those would be my chief recommendations.
Speaker 1: So can you tell us where we can find you online?
Speaker 1: And is there any exciting news about any projects that
Speaker 1: you're working on that you would like to share with us? Yes,
Speaker 1: I think so, So I can be found My website
Speaker 1: is dr pam Thompson dot com d r pam Thompson
Speaker 1: dot com and I also have some videos on my
Speaker 1: website from my book Surviving Mama dot com, which I
Speaker 1: now know that mama is spelled a realion different ways,
Speaker 1: but the mama from my book it's spelled m A
Speaker 1: m A Surviving Mama dot um. And I have some
Speaker 1: video tapes on there that sort of elaborate on the
Speaker 1: things we talked about today and it was from television
Speaker 1: interview and on the horizon for me, I am about
Speaker 1: to do as you and I discussed via email. I'm
Speaker 1: about to launch my uh podcast show which is going
Speaker 1: to be called which is called Intentionally Free. And I
Speaker 1: recorded my first episode a few days ago, and so
Speaker 1: I hope to get that up and launched and all
Speaker 1: of that within the month of May. And um, I
Speaker 1: am running women's group in my office which also helps
Speaker 1: strengthen and support people in difficult relationships. And the one
Speaker 1: I'm running right now is called nine Things You Simply
Speaker 1: Must Do for Success in Life and Love, and we're
Speaker 1: going through that and I offer those groups periodically, so
Speaker 1: I'd love to have people join my mailing list so
Speaker 1: I can send you any blast to announce these start
Speaker 1: of the next groups. And I'm working on my next book,
Speaker 1: and my next book is called Surviving Church. And as usually,
Speaker 1: the reaction as usual to reaction that I think now,
Speaker 1: I think you know very much like the Mama's situation.
Speaker 1: If you've been in church long enough, you probably um
Speaker 1: know somebody or have been somebody who has experienced a
Speaker 1: reality church wound, and it's you know, for some people,
Speaker 1: it pass them away from developing a relationship with God.
Speaker 1: It's one of those things again like Mama, like you
Speaker 1: get the building of the church confused with a relationship
Speaker 1: with Jesus Christ, and so um. The book will be
Speaker 1: set up kind of like Surviving Mama, just you know,
Speaker 1: the true stories of people and what they experienced in
Speaker 1: their in their church wounding, and you know, I just
Speaker 1: so hope and pray I can get that done by
Speaker 1: the end of the year. That's my goal. So in
Speaker 1: a nutshell, yeah, that's what's going on. Absolutely well. We
Speaker 1: will definitely be on the lookout for both the podcasts
Speaker 1: and the book. I think that those would be very
Speaker 1: exciting additions to you know, you're already awesome offering of
Speaker 1: things that you have, so I really appreciate you sharing
Speaker 1: that with us. Thank you so much. Joy. It has
Speaker 1: been just such a delight to connect with you. You know,
Speaker 1: we gotta get together and just catch up and have
Speaker 1: lunch because it's been a minute since we've had I've
Speaker 1: had the pleasure of sitting down and talking to you.
Speaker 1: But it was it was love at first sight, audience,
Speaker 1: and I met Joy likewise likewise. So as you can tell,
Speaker 1: Dr Thompson is just a wealth of information and I
Speaker 1: think shared some very important perspectives for us to help
Speaker 1: maybe rethink and reframe some of the conversations and are
Speaker 1: thinking around UM mother daughter relationships, particularly if they are strained.
Speaker 1: So if you want to hear more or see more
Speaker 1: from Dr Thompson, please make sure to check out her
Speaker 1: book Surviving Mama Again. A link to this will be
Speaker 1: in the show notes, and be on the lookout for
Speaker 1: her upcoming podcast. Make sure to check out the show
Speaker 1: notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Session seven,
Speaker 1: and please make sure to continue the conversation with us
Speaker 1: on social media. Make sure to use the hashtag tb
Speaker 1: G in session and you can find us on Twitter
Speaker 1: at Therapy for the Number four be Girls, and you
Speaker 1: can find us on Instagram and Facebook at Therapy for
Speaker 1: Black Girls. I'm looking forward to continuing this conversation with
Speaker 1: you real soon. Take good care,