Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, where we
Speaker 1: discuss all things mental health, personal development, and all the
Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible
Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Harden Bradford,
Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information
Speaker 1: and resources, visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls
Speaker 1: dot com. And while I hope you love listening to
Speaker 1: and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to
Speaker 1: be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental
Speaker 1: health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me
Speaker 1: for session eight of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast.
Speaker 1: We are continuing our celebration of Mental Health Awareness Month
Speaker 1: by discussing relationships. We've talked about friendships, We've talked about
Speaker 1: dating relationships, we talked about the relationships with our moms,
Speaker 1: and this week we're going to be talking about the
Speaker 1: relationships with our children and parenting. So in this episode
Speaker 1: you'll hear a conversation I had with Mercedes Samudio, who
Speaker 1: is a licensed clinical social worker. She's a parent coach, speaker,
Speaker 1: and best selling author who helps parents and children communicate
Speaker 1: with each other manage emotional trauma, navigate social media and
Speaker 1: technology together, and develop healthy parent child relationships. Over the
Speaker 1: course of her career, she has worked with adoptive families,
Speaker 1: foster families, teen parents, parents navigating the child protective services system,
Speaker 1: and children living with mental illness. She started the in
Speaker 1: parent shaming movement as well as coined the term shameproof parenting,
Speaker 1: using both to bring awareness to ending parent shame. Mercedes
Speaker 1: is a leading parenting expert and has an amazing following
Speaker 1: on social media that allows her to reach the hearts
Speaker 1: of thousands of parents who feel heard and seen on
Speaker 1: their parenting journey. She has been featured on the Huffington's Posts,
Speaker 1: US News and Report, Woman's Day, l A parent Magazine,
Speaker 1: CBS l A, and Kids in the House. She seeks
Speaker 1: to empower parents to believe that they are already great
Speaker 1: guys for raising healthy and happy children. You can read
Speaker 1: more about her parenting expertise at shameproof parenting dot com.
Speaker 1: So Mercedes is really one of the leading voices in
Speaker 1: parenting today, and I am very excited that I'm able
Speaker 1: to share the conversation that we had um with all
Speaker 1: of you. I think that you will find it very
Speaker 1: good and will be very interested in a lot of
Speaker 1: the things that she shared. So thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us today, Marth Dandies, how are you? I Well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. So I'm very
Speaker 1: excited to have you on the podcast with us today
Speaker 1: to talk all about the movement that you've started around
Speaker 1: shameproof parenting. Um, so, can you start breaching by telling
Speaker 1: us what shameproof parenting is? Sure? So, the idea of
Speaker 1: shameproof parenting came from this hashtag that I started about
Speaker 1: two years ago, which is in parents shaming. That's the hashtag.
Speaker 1: And as I was getting um feedback from so many people, colleagues, professionals, parents,
Speaker 1: saying we're sieties, You're so right, we need to stop
Speaker 1: shaming parents, I had one person asked me, okay, so
Speaker 1: I'm on board, but how And I was like, you
Speaker 1: know what, that's a really great question. How do we
Speaker 1: become more aware of how we shame parents? And what
Speaker 1: I was really moved by was not worrying about how
Speaker 1: other people shame parents, but how parents take on that
Speaker 1: shape and incorporated unintentionally and sometimes intentionally into how they
Speaker 1: raise their children. And so the idea of shameproof parenting
Speaker 1: is how do you manage a world that is constantly
Speaker 1: going to bombard you with these external ideas and values
Speaker 1: of how a child should be raised? How are you
Speaker 1: going to take that in and not internalize in a
Speaker 1: negative way, but look at it as is this who
Speaker 1: I am? Is this how I want to raise my child?
Speaker 1: Is this the parenting identity that I want to embody?
Speaker 1: And so the idea of it is that you're going
Speaker 1: to shameproof your parenting. Not by saying there is no
Speaker 1: more parenting shame, but by saying, okay, people are going
Speaker 1: to give me a solicited advice. People are gonna come
Speaker 1: up to me and point fingers. How am I going
Speaker 1: to shameproof myself? How am I going to protect myself,
Speaker 1: my parenting identity and the relationship I have with my kids?
Speaker 1: How am I going to do that? That sounds wonderful?
Speaker 1: I mean, And as the mom of a three year
Speaker 1: old and a one year old, I mean, I definitely.
Speaker 1: You know, have been reading a lot of parenting books,
Speaker 1: and you know everybody wants to try to get it
Speaker 1: right right, um, which you which you talk a lot
Speaker 1: about in your book. But I think that I've not
Speaker 1: read anything that comes from such a fresh perspective like
Speaker 1: Shameproof Parenting UM. When I was reading it, it just
Speaker 1: felt very heart centered and something that I was really
Speaker 1: able to connect with. UM. So, and I want to
Speaker 1: see if you had any thoughts or you know, give
Speaker 1: us your thoughts about why you think UM parenting. It
Speaker 1: seems like parenting and pregnancy are UM some two of
Speaker 1: the things that solicit most of this unsolicited advice, and
Speaker 1: so can you talk a little bit about why you
Speaker 1: think that might be? Sure? So, my idea is that
Speaker 1: parenting is something that everyone's experienced, whether because they were parented,
Speaker 1: which we all have been, or because they are now
Speaker 1: coming into their own parenting identity. And I think when
Speaker 1: you have something as universal as child raising, you definitely
Speaker 1: are going to have people who have their own ideas
Speaker 1: about it. Right. You have people who think it's supposed
Speaker 1: to be done this way, who think it's supposed to
Speaker 1: be done that way. And I would even say, over
Speaker 1: the past twenty years, there's been so much research about
Speaker 1: how we develop and where some of our behavior comes
Speaker 1: from that I think it's even given more people space
Speaker 1: to say, well, since we, you know, start off as children,
Speaker 1: how are we going to raise children? To be healthy adults. Well,
Speaker 1: everyone has idea about that, whether they are a parent
Speaker 1: or you know, they are just coming from their own
Speaker 1: parenting experience. And so my idea is that, because it's
Speaker 1: such a universal topic, is something that each and every
Speaker 1: human on this planet has experienced, we have to learn
Speaker 1: how to lean into what does it mean to bring
Speaker 1: a human from birth into adulthood? What does that look like,
Speaker 1: and not do it in a way that shames those
Speaker 1: people who have taken on that role, because you know,
Speaker 1: even biological people who are not biological parents take on
Speaker 1: that role. But how do we create a world where
Speaker 1: everyone is kind of invested in taking a child from
Speaker 1: birth into adulthood, not just the people who brought them
Speaker 1: into the world, but everyone around them. And how can
Speaker 1: we do that in a way that I think is
Speaker 1: more village like, But not in a village where we're
Speaker 1: all telling you what to do. It's a village where
Speaker 1: we're all giving you space to find out, to feel
Speaker 1: into it, to lean into it, and to grow. So
Speaker 1: you talk a lot about and you've already talked about today, um,
Speaker 1: the whole idea of your parent identity, and you talk
Speaker 1: more about what that means. Yes, so I am a
Speaker 1: license clinical social worker, right, So that means I studied
Speaker 1: all these theories about development, and we pretty much, i
Speaker 1: would say, have a theoretical understanding of almost every level
Speaker 1: of development, cognitive, physiological, biological. We have all these developmental
Speaker 1: understandings of people, and we don't have any type of
Speaker 1: framework for how does a person move from being just
Speaker 1: a human on their own to being a human who's
Speaker 1: raising another human. There is no parenting identity development theory
Speaker 1: anywhere where we really give people an insight, um a
Speaker 1: window into what does it look like to develop a
Speaker 1: parenting identity? Who am I? You know? I know I
Speaker 1: was a a sister and a brother, and I was
Speaker 1: you know, uh ceo of a company all of those things.
Speaker 1: You know, I was a wife, I was a husband.
Speaker 1: We have wonderful theories about how to come into those identities,
Speaker 1: but not about how to come into what does it
Speaker 1: mean to raise another human? And so that's what I
Speaker 1: mean by your parenting identity, this piece of you as
Speaker 1: another aspect of who you are, that is just as
Speaker 1: important and it needs just as much nurturing as you know,
Speaker 1: becoming a wife or becoming the CEO of a company
Speaker 1: or you know, any of these things that we do
Speaker 1: with all of our other pieces of our identity. So
Speaker 1: what do you think about? Um? And And recently we've
Speaker 1: been seeing a lot more probably with the advent of
Speaker 1: more and more social media. UM, we've been seeing some
Speaker 1: very public displays of like how people are parenting. Right, so,
Speaker 1: most of the time, what goes on in your house
Speaker 1: in terms of discipline and parenting is only kind of
Speaker 1: behind closed doors because nobody else sees. But lately, UM,
Speaker 1: I've been witnessing people using social media to really like
Speaker 1: put on display how they are parenting their children. UM.
Speaker 1: So we've seen examples of you know, like maybe a
Speaker 1: kid gets bad grades in class, or it's cutting up
Speaker 1: at school, and um, he will then have to get
Speaker 1: like a very embarrassing haircut or um. You know, you've
Speaker 1: seen examples of like moms and dad's be raiding their
Speaker 1: children about something that has happened, but putting it on
Speaker 1: social media. UM. So can you talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about that, and you know, give us your thoughts about
Speaker 1: why we are maybe seeing so much more public display
Speaker 1: of that. Sure. So, I think we use social media,
Speaker 1: most of us as humans use social media to get
Speaker 1: validation for who we are and what we're doing. We
Speaker 1: post about what we're eating, we post about where we are.
Speaker 1: We post all of these things because we want people
Speaker 1: to see our life and being a parent. You know,
Speaker 1: the discipline part is part of your life. It's part
Speaker 1: of how you want to be validated. And I think
Speaker 1: in this culture of shaming parents, parents have unfortunately developed
Speaker 1: this habit of saying I'm doing the best I can. Look.
Speaker 1: You see how he's acting, you see what he's doing,
Speaker 1: you see how she's talking to me. If I can
Speaker 1: show you that my Keya is not this perfect angel
Speaker 1: that you all think they are, then you'll see that
Speaker 1: I'm struggling as a parent. And I think that the
Speaker 1: way that we shame parents has created this. Unfortunately, it's
Speaker 1: created this idea what parents can't say I'm struggling without
Speaker 1: people saying, well, you should do this, and you should
Speaker 1: do that, and you you should do this. We don't want
Speaker 1: to just listen to parents. We don't want to just
Speaker 1: hear what they're struggling with. We want to tell them
Speaker 1: right away, well, you know, joy, we know when I
Speaker 1: had them one year old, you know this is what
Speaker 1: I did. He wouldn't talk to me that way, and
Speaker 1: my three or would not be jumping on all over
Speaker 1: my couch if I was you, And we don't want
Speaker 1: to just listen to what is your experience? How are
Speaker 1: you coming into this, how are you feeling about this? So,
Speaker 1: as a result of us not really having that space
Speaker 1: for parents, parents have found it. As maladaptive as it
Speaker 1: may seem, they found that space because for every parent
Speaker 1: that post something like that and gets flack forward, there's
Speaker 1: another parent who's everyone saying, girl, yep, that's what I
Speaker 1: would have done. That's exactly how I would have done it,
Speaker 1: you know. And so we need to find a healthier
Speaker 1: space for parents to say I don't know what to
Speaker 1: do with my kid brings home bad grades, and that
Speaker 1: space cannot be full of advice and suggestions. That space
Speaker 1: has to be full of also empathy and compassion. How
Speaker 1: does that feel for you to make sure your kid
Speaker 1: has everything they need and they still can't go to
Speaker 1: school and do what you you expect of them. What
Speaker 1: does that feel like for you? You You know, to make
Speaker 1: sure that your kid doesn't have any of the same
Speaker 1: issues you had when you were kid, and for your
Speaker 1: kid to still talk back to you. What does that
Speaker 1: feel like, I think when we can start giving parents
Speaker 1: that space, will stop seeing so much of these public
Speaker 1: displays of kind of validation that I think parents are
Speaker 1: looking for when they post stuff like that. So you're
Speaker 1: really talking about something that's pretty transformative, you know, like
Speaker 1: this idea of kind of creating a safe space in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways for parents to be able to
Speaker 1: share yes, I'm struggling, and for the circle in the
Speaker 1: community to be able to hold the concern without automatically
Speaker 1: jumping in with all these advice and things I would
Speaker 1: have done. Yes, And if you if we're really being honest,
Speaker 1: we have that almost everywhere else in our lives. You know,
Speaker 1: when you go to your girlfriend's ill say, girl, pour
Speaker 1: me some wine. She pours you wine and just let
Speaker 1: you cry. She doesn't try to tell you to leave
Speaker 1: you that man and get out of that house. She'll
Speaker 1: just let you cry and drink her whole bottle of wine.
Speaker 1: You know, when you go to somebody and you say, girl,
Speaker 1: I hate this job, and I was like, girl, you
Speaker 1: to leave that job. Put your two weeks noticing, and
Speaker 1: they say, well, tell me about it. What's going on?
Speaker 1: You know? Can I help? What can I do? What
Speaker 1: you need. But when parents start to say that, we
Speaker 1: immediately think, well, you know you do positive parenting. You
Speaker 1: gotta do this, parent You know, we gotta do this,
Speaker 1: And we don't want to give parents that space to
Speaker 1: be frustrated, to to make mistakes, to say I don't
Speaker 1: know what to do. I don't know where my expectations
Speaker 1: should be. Should I expect my kid to make Straina's
Speaker 1: or should I not? Should I hope that my siblings
Speaker 1: won't ever fight or should I not? What? Where? What
Speaker 1: do I do? Where's the baseline? We need to give
Speaker 1: parents space to find out what their baseline is in
Speaker 1: accordance with their parenting identity and their personality, and in
Speaker 1: accordance with the people they have in their homes, the
Speaker 1: truth and they have in their homes, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. So how would you say we could go
Speaker 1: about starting to create this kind of a culture shift. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I posit this. I think it first starts
Speaker 1: with us understanding and identifying. First, for parents, identifying where
Speaker 1: did your shame come up? Because not every parent has
Speaker 1: the same level of shame. You know, I might think
Speaker 1: that you're upset with your kids forgetting to f but
Speaker 1: that might not be where your shame is. It might
Speaker 1: be in some other aspect of your parenting identity, or
Speaker 1: in your fly that you've created. And I think it
Speaker 1: starts with just listening, just hearing, not assuming that Joy
Speaker 1: is having a hard time with a three year old,
Speaker 1: but listening to what's really happening. You know, what is
Speaker 1: happening to you, Joy? Is it just the three year old?
Speaker 1: Is it? Is it your business? Is it? This? Is
Speaker 1: it that? What's really causing you know, all of this
Speaker 1: discomfort for you? Once I figure that out, then I
Speaker 1: can start to say, well, what do you need? Do
Speaker 1: you need? Ex do you need? Why do you need? Parenting?
Speaker 1: You know, I've noticed that some of my parents, the
Speaker 1: kid actually is even the issue. It's just that they've
Speaker 1: had a horrible day at work and they just want
Speaker 1: to come home and go to sleep, but they can't
Speaker 1: because people need food, and people need clothes, people need
Speaker 1: homework done, and so that's where the frustration comes from.
Speaker 1: So when we just listen to parents and listen to
Speaker 1: what aspects of their life are really impeding, are becoming
Speaker 1: a barrier to their parenting, whether it's the parenting and
Speaker 1: the kid itself, or if it's something else then we
Speaker 1: can begin to, I think, hold a space for parents
Speaker 1: and give them the advice that's actually unique to them
Speaker 1: in their situation. That sounds wonderful, that the answer sounds wonderful,
Speaker 1: And I think that your book is going to give
Speaker 1: us some really good strategies about how we can be
Speaker 1: able to kind of create this culture shift in terms
Speaker 1: of parenting. Yes, and I think you're right, it is
Speaker 1: a culture shift. I think we live in a very
Speaker 1: public culture where almost everything is either in the news
Speaker 1: or on social media, and I think we are still
Speaker 1: in this period of transition and adjustment, adjustment to how
Speaker 1: do we live in a world where everything is so public?
Speaker 1: How do we live in a world where almost everything
Speaker 1: we do can be scrutinized, Because even if you yourself don't,
Speaker 1: you know, take a picture of what's going on with
Speaker 1: your family, someone else can. Someone else can be in
Speaker 1: the store and take a video of you trying to
Speaker 1: manage your child's tangent and posting online, you know. And
Speaker 1: I think living in this world, it's definitely gonna be
Speaker 1: a cultural shift of how do we use this technology
Speaker 1: and this access to better ourselves as opposed to continuously
Speaker 1: destroying ourselves? With it. So what do you think, um,
Speaker 1: are some of the most common missteps we make as parents?
Speaker 1: You know, so you have tons of experience working with
Speaker 1: parents on a variety of issues. UM, So if you
Speaker 1: could give us some insight about some of the most
Speaker 1: common misteps you see parents make and how, um we
Speaker 1: may be able to be able to again begin thinking
Speaker 1: differently about parenting. Yeah, so, UM, I believe one of
Speaker 1: them that I see quite a bit is this idea
Speaker 1: that your child is an extension of you and that
Speaker 1: you have to make your child a decent human being.
Speaker 1: And I think that level of pressure is what kind
Speaker 1: of exacerbates a lot of the other things that happened
Speaker 1: in the world. We're constantly worried about what other people
Speaker 1: are gonna say when my three year old can sit
Speaker 1: the table and eat food, when that actually just might
Speaker 1: not be who your kid is. There are some three
Speaker 1: year olds who are great, and there's some who, no
Speaker 1: matter how many times who threaten them, they're not gonna
Speaker 1: sit out. And so really learning how to say I
Speaker 1: am a human right and really get in touch with that.
Speaker 1: I talked about that a lot in the book. Get
Speaker 1: in touch with their own humanity, get in touch with
Speaker 1: their own identity, because the more you do that, the
Speaker 1: more you have space to empathize with this other human
Speaker 1: your task with raising that this other human is just
Speaker 1: as flawed and just as amazing as you are. And
Speaker 1: I think that kind of, you know, that kind of
Speaker 1: is the umbrella for most of the common barriers and
Speaker 1: issues that I see in parents. And then I think
Speaker 1: the other one is learning how to communicate in different
Speaker 1: ways than just talking. So most people, and most of
Speaker 1: the parents who can pay for my services and work
Speaker 1: with me, they're great at speaking, but they're not always
Speaker 1: great at hearing the emotional communication and then more nonverbal
Speaker 1: communications that we all have to learn how to be
Speaker 1: nuanced within our in our relationships. And I think in
Speaker 1: the parenting relationship, the parents child one it's even harder
Speaker 1: to deal with because everyone says, you're the parent, you
Speaker 1: better control that kid, you better make sure that they
Speaker 1: don't think or do anything out of line. And I
Speaker 1: think that's a really horrible expectation of place on a
Speaker 1: parent to do for a kid, because, like I said,
Speaker 1: you're human and so is your kid. You can't control
Speaker 1: another human. I don't care if it did come out
Speaker 1: of you or not so really, kind of these two
Speaker 1: concepts of managing our expectations of who we're going to
Speaker 1: be when we become parents and the present that we
Speaker 1: are tasked with lazy and it depends time learning how
Speaker 1: to communicate and more way than to get that vertical
Speaker 1: steep um level of communication. So what might that look like?
Speaker 1: Can you give us some ideas about like how you
Speaker 1: can learn to communicate, you know, especially with like a
Speaker 1: three year old who is you know, kind of verbal
Speaker 1: but not super understanding, you know, as as much as
Speaker 1: you do as an adult. So how can you begin
Speaker 1: to communicate with them different things? Well, I think one
Speaker 1: of the ways, and I feel this is across you know,
Speaker 1: age aged um groups is played so kids, especially younger
Speaker 1: kids zero to five, you find out so much when
Speaker 1: you just watch them play with each other. You find
Speaker 1: out the things that they're picking up, You find out
Speaker 1: the cultural things that they're picking up, You find out
Speaker 1: the gender things that they're picking up. You find out
Speaker 1: the things that maybe you didn't think they heard that
Speaker 1: they did. Really watching them play, and you don't have
Speaker 1: to be a therapist to understand, you know, if your
Speaker 1: kid is doing something, but when your kid is playing
Speaker 1: with their cars and they're constantly trying to kill everybody
Speaker 1: in the car set. That lets you know there might
Speaker 1: be some aggression. Your three year old can say, Mom,
Speaker 1: I'm really mad. But if you just told them you
Speaker 1: can't have that and they go in the room and
Speaker 1: they destroy all of their their toys, that's anger, right
Speaker 1: Learning how to read these nonverbal cues of Okay, he
Speaker 1: didn't tell me he's mad, but I can tell he
Speaker 1: went in there and play all of his cars or
Speaker 1: in a car accident. Right now, he's probably feeling a
Speaker 1: little bit of aggression towards either me or something else
Speaker 1: that's going on in the house. And I think you
Speaker 1: can even notice that with older kids. You know, kids,
Speaker 1: we don't always have, even as a note, the right
Speaker 1: language to share how we're feeling or what we're experiencedly internally.
Speaker 1: But it's really about getting quiet enough to say, what
Speaker 1: what am I seeing? We just had this issue, we
Speaker 1: just had this conflict, or we just had this really
Speaker 1: great day, and what am I seeing? Outside of the
Speaker 1: words they're using, how are they interacting with everyone in
Speaker 1: the house, How are they interacting with their things or
Speaker 1: the TV shows they're watching, or as kids get older,
Speaker 1: they start to you know, like certain clothing and certain music.
Speaker 1: All of these things are nonverbal ways that we communicate
Speaker 1: to each other. That if as a parent you can
Speaker 1: kind of get into with that, you can start even
Speaker 1: noticing how to give your kids that emotional language. Right,
Speaker 1: you see your keys it, Like I said, three year
Speaker 1: old having all of his cars in a car accident.
Speaker 1: You can say, Wow, that must be really frustrating, you know,
Speaker 1: to have everybody been a cariss and how are you
Speaker 1: gonna solve that? How are you gonna help everybody? Right?
Speaker 1: And you're helping this kid develop this language that they
Speaker 1: don't have, that they're showing it through their play or
Speaker 1: through these nonverbal cues. Yeah. So I mean a lot
Speaker 1: of what you talk about, like we've already mentioned, feels
Speaker 1: very transformative. But at the basic level which you just mentioned, um,
Speaker 1: really just sounds like being very present and being you know,
Speaker 1: just kind of in tune with what's happening with your child. Yes,
Speaker 1: And I also tell my parents that it starts with
Speaker 1: them because a lot of the parents that I work with,
Speaker 1: you know, they're part of this this culture of go
Speaker 1: go go, and so I think a lot of times,
Speaker 1: you know, parents have so much on their plate that
Speaker 1: they even get out of tune with themselves. I've met
Speaker 1: parents who tell me they don't eat, they don't sleep,
Speaker 1: and it's like, are you listening to your body? What's
Speaker 1: going on for you? First? There's no way you can
Speaker 1: have that type of attunement with a child that's outside
Speaker 1: of you if you don't have it with yourself first.
Speaker 1: If you're not you know, when you get a headache,
Speaker 1: do you know where that came? You know, when you're
Speaker 1: just angry for no reason because someone left a piece
Speaker 1: of paper in the middle of the floor, do you
Speaker 1: know where that anger is coming from? Do you know
Speaker 1: where that resonates from? So it's this idea first, starting
Speaker 1: with yourself and saying, wow, I get really angry when
Speaker 1: everyone keeps going in and out of the house. What
Speaker 1: is that about? What are my values about going in
Speaker 1: now the house? Where did I learn those values from?
Speaker 1: And then being able to say, okay, now I can
Speaker 1: look at someone else and figure out how their nonverbal
Speaker 1: cues or triggering them, you know if that makes sense?
Speaker 1: M m mmmm, absolutely absolutely So I want to go
Speaker 1: back um a little bit to talk more about or
Speaker 1: to see if you have any more insight about UM
Speaker 1: the role that social media plays with our in terms
Speaker 1: of parenting UM. And I'm not sure about you, but
Speaker 1: I am a part of UM like a lot of
Speaker 1: like Facebook mommy group kinds of things, so like about
Speaker 1: breastfeeding and you know, once they started school and all
Speaker 1: of this stuff. UM and you definitely will see a
Speaker 1: lot of these mommy wars kind of play out. Like
Speaker 1: Facebook feels like a breeding ground for a lot of
Speaker 1: this UM And so I wanted to hear your insights about,
Speaker 1: like how is that related to like the shameproofing, Like
Speaker 1: does some of that come out of shame? I think
Speaker 1: it does. I think we all again, like I said earlier,
Speaker 1: I think everyone has an idea about what it means
Speaker 1: to parents, A very universal thing to have an idea about.
Speaker 1: And so once you're in the thick of it, you're
Speaker 1: in these groups trying to figure out is what I'm
Speaker 1: doing valid? Is this is what I'm doing viable? And
Speaker 1: so you have people, when you go back to who
Speaker 1: they are as humans, they don't always know how to
Speaker 1: ask for help or how to give help because they
Speaker 1: themselves are dealing with their own journey on being emotionally intelligent.
Speaker 1: Are are being able to be present in the world.
Speaker 1: So what I teach my parents about shameproofing is this,
Speaker 1: find the village that feels resonant for you. So if
Speaker 1: you're in four or five mom groups and you've never
Speaker 1: felt like posting to get help, that's probably not the
Speaker 1: mom group you need to be in. You know, you
Speaker 1: need to find say, Okay, what do I need. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm a mom who really likes to outdoors and I
Speaker 1: really want to, you know, help my kids learn how
Speaker 1: to go into the outdoors. So you maybe want to
Speaker 1: be an a group that talks about that, or you
Speaker 1: might want to start one. If you're a parent who's
Speaker 1: more mindful, then you might want to be in a
Speaker 1: group that's more mindful. If you're a parent who believes
Speaker 1: in breastfeeding until your child weans off on their own,
Speaker 1: no matter how old they are, then you might want
Speaker 1: to be in a group or start a group for that.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes we will force ourselves to stay in
Speaker 1: different tribes or different groups because we feel like, well,
Speaker 1: I've got to learn, you know, I've got to toughen up,
Speaker 1: and I don't believe in that. I don't believe that
Speaker 1: when you toughen up, it helps you. I believe that
Speaker 1: when you toughen up and you just keep yourself in this,
Speaker 1: it makes you way more disconnected from yourself and and
Speaker 1: then eventually your child. So when you're on Facebook or
Speaker 1: you're in any type of online um community, just as yourself,
Speaker 1: when's the last time I felt like I could actually
Speaker 1: post in there and get support the way I need support?
Speaker 1: If you can't even think when's the last time that
Speaker 1: was it, then you might need to leave out of
Speaker 1: that group. If you said the last couple of times
Speaker 1: I've checked in I felt so you know, I felt horrible,
Speaker 1: I felt this this nagging discomfort, Then that might not
Speaker 1: be the group for you. Does that mean it's a
Speaker 1: horrible group? I can't say. But it's more about worrying
Speaker 1: about what do I need to feel supported and how
Speaker 1: do I get that support, and then going to find
Speaker 1: that for yourself. Got you? Got you? So really, when
Speaker 1: we're talking about like how we can shameproof our parenting,
Speaker 1: we're really talking about starting with ourselves. So not so
Speaker 1: much about like how to fix my child, but what
Speaker 1: how am I parenting in a way that you know
Speaker 1: is not consistent with who my child actually is right right,
Speaker 1: And I think that's I think it's difficult though, because again,
Speaker 1: our world tells us differently. Our world says, you've got
Speaker 1: to control that kid. If anything happens, it's your fault.
Speaker 1: If this kid grows up to be anything that's abnormal
Speaker 1: or not correct, it's your fault. So I think parents
Speaker 1: are constantly in that contention of I've got to make
Speaker 1: sure I'm doing it right, but it's not always an
Speaker 1: alignment with what I who I have in my home.
Speaker 1: And so I think that's the part of shameproof parenting
Speaker 1: that I'm trying to get, you know, this kind of
Speaker 1: cultural shift that we're talking about, which is start when
Speaker 1: your home first, start with you have first, and then
Speaker 1: go out to the world, don't let the world tell
Speaker 1: you where to start, and then you come back home.
Speaker 1: So I do think it is important for us to
Speaker 1: talk about UM, the cultural pieces to shame UM because
Speaker 1: I do think I mean, and we can kind of
Speaker 1: see this playing out in the media that if there
Speaker 1: is a teenager who um commits a crime UM like
Speaker 1: a black teenager does something, then there's a lot of
Speaker 1: talk about, well, what do the parents do and where
Speaker 1: are they and all this kind of stuff, whereas maybe
Speaker 1: if it's a white team, then it's just teens being
Speaker 1: teens kind of thing, right, Um, And so I want
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts about, um, any particular cultural aspects
Speaker 1: that we need to be mindful of in terms of
Speaker 1: being black parents. Yes, definitely. And I think you're speaking
Speaker 1: to something that's very systemic, right, that there's still racism.
Speaker 1: There's still people who judge you based on how you
Speaker 1: look and in the race that you identify with, versus
Speaker 1: who you actually are. And I think for you know,
Speaker 1: any minority family, especially if you're in the more oppressed
Speaker 1: minority like African Americans unfortunately are in America, sometimes it's
Speaker 1: really important and to start off with who are you
Speaker 1: and how do you want your family to show up
Speaker 1: in the world. Yes, we can worry about how people
Speaker 1: see us, but I think we really want to model
Speaker 1: for kids that no matter how people see you, how
Speaker 1: do you want to show up in the world. You know,
Speaker 1: I think sometimes people still think all black people spank
Speaker 1: their kids, and that's not always true. You know, there
Speaker 1: are definitely a lot of you know, black parents who
Speaker 1: believe in positive parentings, who believe in positive discipline and
Speaker 1: don't spank their children. And I think it's really important
Speaker 1: on that same line that we have more cultural people
Speaker 1: out speaking about child raising practices, not just the kind
Speaker 1: of people who identify and the white culture always being
Speaker 1: the parenting experts. You know, we need more African American
Speaker 1: parenting experts, We need more like Fino parenting experts, We
Speaker 1: need more Asian parenting experts, So that way we can
Speaker 1: start to understand that culture plays such a huge role
Speaker 1: and how I raise my kid. If I have a
Speaker 1: black son, I'm probably gonna talk to him a lot
Speaker 1: differently than if I have a white son because just
Speaker 1: the way the world experiences him. And so I think
Speaker 1: that if we have more people, more experts, talking about
Speaker 1: it this way, we can start to really again have
Speaker 1: this cultural shift of the way that people parent has
Speaker 1: to be very unique to not only their home, but
Speaker 1: their culture, experience, their gender identity, their sexual orientation, their
Speaker 1: religious identity. All of these things start with the parents
Speaker 1: first recognize it for themselves. Who are we? What is
Speaker 1: what is our family? How do I how do we identify?
Speaker 1: And then how do I help my children now understand
Speaker 1: that same identity and go out into the world so
Speaker 1: their particular strategies that you might offer to black parents about,
Speaker 1: you know, like how to really tap into this shame
Speaker 1: for themselves. We'll talk about it like literally, how does
Speaker 1: it show up for you? Because if you say to me,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm scared for my black son and that's
Speaker 1: why I spank him, then we need to talk about that.
Speaker 1: What do you think the spanking is going to do?
Speaker 1: What do you think the beating is going to do?
Speaker 1: Do you think that's going to prepare him for a
Speaker 1: world that will also probably beat him and be rude
Speaker 1: to him, or do you think that's going to make
Speaker 1: him harder? What do you think? And I think as
Speaker 1: you start to talk into it, it gives again that
Speaker 1: parents that space to say I don't really know, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't really understand, or yes, I think it is
Speaker 1: the way it's going to be. And I think we
Speaker 1: have to be really open to that widity of people
Speaker 1: feeling like this is how I'm experiencing the world and
Speaker 1: that's how I'm going to teach my children and then
Speaker 1: having them talk through what does that do? What is
Speaker 1: the outcome? What? What do you want for your your son?
Speaker 1: What do you want for your black daughter? What do
Speaker 1: you want and then helping them find healthy ways to
Speaker 1: get them there that might not always you know, seem
Speaker 1: like you know the best ways. I know sometimes UM,
Speaker 1: our African American culture can kind of scoff at the
Speaker 1: parent and the positive parenting stuff because it feels like whitewashed.
Speaker 1: But we really have to talk about what do you
Speaker 1: want for your children? How do you want them to
Speaker 1: show up in the world and talk to the parts
Speaker 1: of talk to shade in a way that it comes
Speaker 1: up for you. Yeah, I mean, and I do think
Speaker 1: you are offering a different framework for questions to have
Speaker 1: and you know, conversations to have with our children, because
Speaker 1: even in just observing online conversations, you can see like
Speaker 1: there's this delicate balance between UM, like how much do
Speaker 1: you step in I think especially UM with like black
Speaker 1: male children. UM. You know, like at what point do
Speaker 1: you kind of help them realize like how the world
Speaker 1: sees them and like not want them to be shocked?
Speaker 1: You know. So it's almost like you want to kind
Speaker 1: of be able to kind of break the ugly truth
Speaker 1: to them before the world does. UM. And and and
Speaker 1: and honestly, I don't know the answers to that, you know, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's better to kind of say, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is kind of how you have to be prepared
Speaker 1: to show up in the world versus kind of letting
Speaker 1: it happen, right, And if I can speak to that
Speaker 1: a little bit, I think that's the importance of having
Speaker 1: that village. That's the importance of really creating these villages
Speaker 1: where we're not shaming parents, but we we give parents
Speaker 1: a space to do what you just said, which is
Speaker 1: I don't know when to break it to my black
Speaker 1: sons that the world is not going to see them
Speaker 1: the same way I do. When do I do that?
Speaker 1: And to have that that community kind of village where
Speaker 1: we talk about how do we do that, do we
Speaker 1: do it now, do we do it later? How do
Speaker 1: we prepare them so they're not angry and they don't laugh?
Speaker 1: How does the world wants they find out? Like? How
Speaker 1: do we do that? And I think again that goes
Speaker 1: back to what I said about having more people of
Speaker 1: color speaking about child raising practices, because we need more
Speaker 1: frameworks for that, we need more space for that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So do you have some resources or other ideas about
Speaker 1: like besides your book of course, um, you know, like
Speaker 1: other people or other UM resources that people should be
Speaker 1: paying attention to. Well, there are two authors that I
Speaker 1: like a lot. I think that they are starting to
Speaker 1: talk about it. So there is a Soda Kirkland and
Speaker 1: she has a book called Beating Black Children where it
Speaker 1: talks about the culture of African Americans and spanking. And
Speaker 1: then there is another author. Her name is Dr Stacy
Speaker 1: haddn't Patterson Pattinson. I feel like I'm messing up her
Speaker 1: last name, but her book is called Spare the Spare
Speaker 1: the Rod, or Spare the Child, and she again talks
Speaker 1: about how spanking has kind of infiltrated its way into
Speaker 1: our culture and what and what kind of prescriptions we
Speaker 1: can do to get it out of our culture. Okay, perfect,
Speaker 1: perfect and any other like websites are like ted talks
Speaker 1: or any other things that you've heard or come across
Speaker 1: that you think would be helpful for people to get
Speaker 1: more information and start kind of building this village and
Speaker 1: thinking differently about how we're parenting. So those two people
Speaker 1: I really like. I like um and it's not about parenting,
Speaker 1: But I really like Brne Brown her work around shame
Speaker 1: and how she's brought that to the line, Like shame
Speaker 1: and vulnerability. I think any of her talks are really
Speaker 1: poignant and very insightful. And then there's another parenting author
Speaker 1: who is a woman of color herself, Dr Shofali Sabari,
Speaker 1: and she also has her own books as well as
Speaker 1: her own TED talks where she talks about conscious parenting
Speaker 1: and kind of some of the things that I've talked about.
Speaker 1: She also, you know, has coined and and began to
Speaker 1: talk about where it's about really honoring yourself first and
Speaker 1: then moving into how that looks in your parenting. So
Speaker 1: I do want to hear more Mercedes about like your practice, UM,
Speaker 1: and like what does this look like? When would parents
Speaker 1: typically contact you? UM, talk to me a little bit
Speaker 1: about the work that you do. So I do a
Speaker 1: little bit of everything. Now I do a lot of speaking,
Speaker 1: so I'm kind of increasing my speaking, so I've been
Speaker 1: doing that more, a little bit more workshops. And then
Speaker 1: in terms of one on one UM, I haven't set
Speaker 1: up where parents can come to my website and they
Speaker 1: can schedule forty or five minutes sessions or sixty minutes
Speaker 1: sessions where we work virtually and we pretty much work
Speaker 1: on whatever it is that's bothering you in that moment,
Speaker 1: and we begin to talk about what it is that
Speaker 1: you know you can be, how you can shift your
Speaker 1: perspective so that way you can be more present and
Speaker 1: you can become more aware of how shame infiltrates your life.
Speaker 1: And then also how your own identity has to be
Speaker 1: cultivated before you can start changing your child or fixing
Speaker 1: your child quote unquote. And so what I do with
Speaker 1: that is I record each session. If you want the recording,
Speaker 1: I send it to you, and the week after we
Speaker 1: have done our one on one session, you have unlimited
Speaker 1: text and email support from me as well. Nice, very nice.
Speaker 1: So what are some strategy? So let's say somebody grabs
Speaker 1: a copy of your book, which I do encourage everyone
Speaker 1: to do. Um, they get a cop be of your book,
Speaker 1: what are some of the beginning strategies? Like, if I'm
Speaker 1: just starting out and I'm new to hearing about this
Speaker 1: shameproof parenting, Um, what are some of the beginning strategies
Speaker 1: you'd offer our parents to get started? I would say
Speaker 1: the first thing to do is to give yourself a
Speaker 1: lot of empathy. UM, picking up any parenting book and
Speaker 1: deciding to change your parenting as a journey it is
Speaker 1: a lifelong journey, just like being a parent is a
Speaker 1: lifelong journey. So first tell yourself that this is a
Speaker 1: journey that I'm committed to, that I'm committed to changing.
Speaker 1: I'm committed to taking small steps each day, and I'm
Speaker 1: committed to giving myself empathy when i go back to
Speaker 1: doing some of my old stuff because I'm learning, I'm changing,
Speaker 1: I'm doing things differently. And I've seen that when parents
Speaker 1: do that for themselves, they have even more space to
Speaker 1: do it to their kids when their kids mess up
Speaker 1: or their kids make the wrong decisions. And so that's
Speaker 1: something that I think, no matter what you do in
Speaker 1: your parenting, if you can start with that empathy, and
Speaker 1: even if you can start with that emotional intelligence, you're
Speaker 1: really giving yourself and your child a great foundation to
Speaker 1: manage conflict and behavior issues that might come up. That
Speaker 1: sounds great, That really sounds great. So it sounds like
Speaker 1: you're saying, um, you know, like, when we can stop
Speaker 1: shaming each other as parents, then we don't also, um,
Speaker 1: induce this sense of shame in our in our children.
Speaker 1: Because if it feels very circular, it is, well I
Speaker 1: think it is because when you are shaming yourself say
Speaker 1: I'm a horrible parent. Oh I yelled again. Oh I
Speaker 1: did this again. I suck. You have no space to
Speaker 1: give empathy to anyone else. You're really kind of filling
Speaker 1: your bucket with a lot of negativity. And if that's
Speaker 1: what you're doing, how can you give positivity from a
Speaker 1: bucket of negativity? Right that? It doesn't it's not It
Speaker 1: doesn't make any logical sense. So you have to start
Speaker 1: off with this idea of I'm going to take a
Speaker 1: step forward, even if I take a step back. Every
Speaker 1: time that I do that, say okay, Mercedes, you yelled,
Speaker 1: but you can say sorry, you can move forward and
Speaker 1: you can work on something else, like you have to
Speaker 1: give yourself that space or else you'll constantly beat yourself
Speaker 1: up and then you'll constantly end up, you know, doing
Speaker 1: the same thing to your kids. So I think, like
Speaker 1: you said, it's a very cyclical relationship ship. So where
Speaker 1: can we find more information about you? Where can we
Speaker 1: get a copy of the book? How do we follow
Speaker 1: you online? So you can pretty much start with all
Speaker 1: of that on my website shaneproof parenting dot com. On there,
Speaker 1: I have a link to get my book which is
Speaker 1: on Amazon and it will soon be on Barnes and
Speaker 1: Noble in the nook as well, and you will also
Speaker 1: find all of my social media. You'll find my YouTube
Speaker 1: show The Family Couch, as well as all of my
Speaker 1: blogs and video blogs that I have right there from
Speaker 1: starting out at my website. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: taking this time to chat with us, Mercedes. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for having me absolutely so. As you can tell,
Speaker 1: Mercedes has a lot of great ideas about how we
Speaker 1: can really transform our culture around parenting and UM reducing
Speaker 1: some of the shaming that we do of each other
Speaker 1: as parents. So I hope that you will grab a
Speaker 1: copy of her book and read more about her thoughts.
Speaker 1: I do really think that it will be UM a
Speaker 1: great thing to to introduce into your parenting style or
Speaker 1: just to help you to expand your thinking about parenting
Speaker 1: and how we can have better relationships with our children.
Speaker 1: So please make sure to join me next week for
Speaker 1: our final episode of UM celebration of Mental Health Awareness Month.
Speaker 1: We will be talking all about the relationship with yourself.
Speaker 1: Please make sure to join the conversation over on social
Speaker 1: media and use the hashtag tv G in session. You
Speaker 1: can find us on Facebook and Instagram at Therapy for
Speaker 1: Black Girls, and you can find us on Twitter at
Speaker 1: Therapy for the Number four be Girls. Please make sure
Speaker 1: to share this episode in any of your other favorite
Speaker 1: episodes with the women in your life, and make sure
Speaker 1: to use the hashtag tb G In Session, I'm looking
Speaker 1: forward to continue in this conversation with you real soon.
Speaker 1: Take good care the doctors Choctor