Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for a Black Girls podcasts, a
Speaker 1: weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the
Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible
Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr joy Hard and Bradford,
Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information,
Speaker 1: visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com.
Speaker 1: And while I hope you love listening to and learning
Speaker 1: from the podcast, it is not meant to be a
Speaker 1: substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining me for session seventy four
Speaker 1: of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. Since we spent
Speaker 1: so much time this week talking about black women athletes,
Speaker 1: it felt like a great time to share the conversation
Speaker 1: I had with Natalie Graves all about black women athletes
Speaker 1: and body image. Natalie is a certified school social worker,
Speaker 1: licensed Clinical social worker, and certified Alcohol and Drug counselor
Speaker 1: in Michigan. In her practice, she specializes in athletes, mental
Speaker 1: health and wellness. She received her master's degree from the
Speaker 1: University of Chicago School of Social Service Administration and her
Speaker 1: bachelor's degree from Chicago State University. Natalie is a member
Speaker 1: of the University of Michigan Social Worker and Sports Association
Speaker 1: and serves as a guest lecturer for the University of
Speaker 1: Michigan's School of Social Work. She has also spent time
Speaker 1: working with the NBA to provide mental wellness presentations for
Speaker 1: players and participated in their Rookie Transition program, offering information
Speaker 1: on mental health, self care, and goal setting. Natalie and
Speaker 1: I discuss some of the common concerns the black women
Speaker 1: athletes face, how black women's bodies are seen and critiqued
Speaker 1: in sports, and we discussed body image issues as it
Speaker 1: relates to athletes, but also to black women generally. If
Speaker 1: you hear something you enjoy while listening, please be sure
Speaker 1: to share it with us on social media using the
Speaker 1: hashtag tv G in Session. Here's our conversation. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining us today, Natalie Joy, Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for having me. Yeah, I'm very excited to
Speaker 1: have you joined us today to talk about black women
Speaker 1: athletes because I definitely think, you know, we see a
Speaker 1: lot in the news, we see in a lot in
Speaker 1: the media, but I think it will be an interesting
Speaker 1: perspective to kind of hear about some of the struggles
Speaker 1: and some of the challenges they often have. Because I
Speaker 1: know you work with a lot of black women athletes,
Speaker 1: so can you share a little bit about some of
Speaker 1: the common things that your athletes struggle with. Literally, when
Speaker 1: we're talking about female athletes, we look at different sports
Speaker 1: and there are different issues. So, for an example, sports
Speaker 1: that are judged like swimming, or gymnastics or ice skating,
Speaker 1: I find that there's more body issues, eating disorders. So
Speaker 1: I take a lot of interest in addressing that with
Speaker 1: the athletes that I work with. Obviously, confidence and athletic
Speaker 1: stress are big issues struggles with performance, But I think
Speaker 1: one of the things that concerns me greatly with our
Speaker 1: female athletes is some of the challenges they have as
Speaker 1: it relates to their physical bodies. There. Yeah, I'm glad
Speaker 1: you brought that up, because I do think that there
Speaker 1: are some sports that, like size and build are more
Speaker 1: important than others. Right, Like, you know, something like gymnastics,
Speaker 1: you do have to it feels like have a certain
Speaker 1: type of to v successful ed gymnastics. That's exactly right.
Speaker 1: When you're looking at sports that you actually dressed less
Speaker 1: like volleyball, gymnastic, ice skating, with the short outfits, addresses.
Speaker 1: So you are perceived in that sport to have a
Speaker 1: certain body type. And what we find is athletes who
Speaker 1: pursue those sports and don't have the traditional body type
Speaker 1: of those sports expects athletes to have. Those particular athletes
Speaker 1: run into a lot of challenges as it relates to
Speaker 1: self image. Can you say more about that? For sure?
Speaker 1: A perfect example is an athlete who just physically looks
Speaker 1: different than the majority of all the other athletes that
Speaker 1: play in their sport. So if you think about someone
Speaker 1: like a Serena Williams for an example, she is at
Speaker 1: the pinnacle, has been at the pinnacle of her sport,
Speaker 1: multi gold medalists, mall high titles, and championships, but she
Speaker 1: is really criticized on how she looks physically, not about
Speaker 1: her achievements on the court, but how she actually looks.
Speaker 1: And she has been criticized on how she looks, uh,
Speaker 1: if she's overweight, if she's too muscular, She's been criticized
Speaker 1: and looking like a man. And if we look at
Speaker 1: what's going on here, it is directly about how she
Speaker 1: physically looks and her race, and so she has been
Speaker 1: met with a lot of body shaming throughout her career,
Speaker 1: starting when she was about sixteen years old entering the work,
Speaker 1: and a lot of women can relate to that. It's
Speaker 1: just with public athletes. We see it, you know, every day,
Speaker 1: and it's played out very publicly. But a lot of
Speaker 1: women struggle with how they look, how they perceive themselves,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of struggles around the perception of
Speaker 1: how they think they should look, and it plays a
Speaker 1: lot on how your self esteem and how you feel
Speaker 1: about yourself. I'm glad you brought up the race piece, Natalie,
Speaker 1: because even recently Serena has talked about how she continues
Speaker 1: to get tested for like for drugs in her system, right,
Speaker 1: like even more than other people. And you you have
Speaker 1: to believe, I think that that is connected to race
Speaker 1: in some ways, you know, like what other reason is
Speaker 1: there that she's getting tested at the rate at which
Speaker 1: she is other than race And because she's so that's
Speaker 1: exactly right. It's one because she's so good, But I
Speaker 1: think there's also a bias in how she physically looks,
Speaker 1: so she looked a certain way, so there is a
Speaker 1: conclusion that she must be doing something that is some
Speaker 1: drug enhancement or from the steroids are doing something illegal
Speaker 1: instead of acknowledging the greatness that she has, the abilities
Speaker 1: that she has, and what we look at other tennis players,
Speaker 1: and Serena has talked about this, when we look at
Speaker 1: a player like Maria Sharapova, who is blonde, looks like
Speaker 1: a model, she spends and she tested positive for drugs,
Speaker 1: and you compare that to Serena how much she's been
Speaker 1: tested versus how Maria Sharapola has been tested and one
Speaker 1: who has been tested positive. You know, you see there
Speaker 1: from serious discrepancies there and you can't ignore the fact
Speaker 1: that Serena is black. I'm wondering if there are other
Speaker 1: ways that you feel like some of these microaggressions show
Speaker 1: up with athletes. Do you have any thoughts about other
Speaker 1: things that have kind of popped up that you've may
Speaker 1: be seen with clients are heard of. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: A lot of times there's kind of this otherness that
Speaker 1: goes on if you are the only African American on
Speaker 1: your team, until you're perceived different even though you're playing
Speaker 1: the same team as your teammates, and that plays out
Speaker 1: a lot. We see that with soccer teams, we see
Speaker 1: that and individual sports I see it a lot in golf,
Speaker 1: where golf is a predominantly white sport, but when we
Speaker 1: have black athletes, particularly female athletes, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: challenges around that. Some of the challenges that some of
Speaker 1: the young doctor's experience is low self esteem because there's
Speaker 1: a comparison not feeling confident within their own abilities because
Speaker 1: they look and feel different. There's a culture around that,
Speaker 1: and there's an environment that feeds into that, and so
Speaker 1: we have to really be mindful how we're we're training
Speaker 1: our girls, and how we're talking to our girls, and
Speaker 1: how we're talking about our girls so that we can
Speaker 1: really strengthen them and give them the confidence they need
Speaker 1: to thrive in sports or in everyday life, whatever that
Speaker 1: may be, whether it's at a job, at college, in school.
Speaker 1: Because if we don't have that self worth and that belief,
Speaker 1: it plays out in a lot of ways in our lives.
Speaker 1: And how would you suggest we start having some of
Speaker 1: those conversations like where do you feel like we could
Speaker 1: be doing a better job at helping girls have better
Speaker 1: self worth and better self esteem. One of the things
Speaker 1: that I think really important that as parents and caregivers
Speaker 1: and family members were very mindful how we speak to
Speaker 1: and about our children. You know, how many times have
Speaker 1: you heard something like, girl, take those tans off, they're
Speaker 1: too tight. That comment right there put negative connotation on
Speaker 1: that young girl's body. Or when we say things like
Speaker 1: all these boys looking at you, and if this young
Speaker 1: girl did something wrong because she's getting attention from the
Speaker 1: young man. And so those type of comments where we
Speaker 1: don't mean anything harmful when we say them, but they
Speaker 1: have a great effect. So I I want us to
Speaker 1: really be mindful how we talk to our young girls
Speaker 1: and children. We also have to pay attention to how
Speaker 1: we talk about ourselves in front of our daughters. You know,
Speaker 1: when we say, oh, I look so sad as mistress,
Speaker 1: Oh this topic makes my breast look so big, and
Speaker 1: we're saying that in front of our daughters. What do
Speaker 1: our daughters think about themselves when they hear their mothers
Speaker 1: talk like that. Words are so powerful, and when you're
Speaker 1: growing up in a home and you're hearing negative comments
Speaker 1: indirectly and directly, that can only have a negative effect
Speaker 1: on how you feel about yourself. So if we can
Speaker 1: be careful and be aware and actually refrain from having
Speaker 1: those comments in front of our children. It would make
Speaker 1: a huge difference in how young girls think about themselves.
Speaker 1: I think another thing is to really surround yourself with
Speaker 1: people who appreciate you. You know, look at the environment.
Speaker 1: Is it an environment where is very critical, where you're
Speaker 1: always being criticized for the way you look, the way
Speaker 1: you dress, where you wear your hair. You know, is
Speaker 1: that's the kind of environment that you want to be in?
Speaker 1: And we also have some look at culturally. Are we
Speaker 1: creating environments that body shaming is acceptable? So what do
Speaker 1: I mean by that? So? Are we at work and
Speaker 1: part of the work activities is to just talk about
Speaker 1: how someone dresses every day and we make fun of that,
Speaker 1: or we have comments that are negative about that. And
Speaker 1: what we're doing is we're saying in our workplace, or
Speaker 1: in our organizations, or in our school groups or in
Speaker 1: school classes that talking this way about women is okay.
Speaker 1: And women contribute to this quite often. A lot of
Speaker 1: times you think, you know, as men objesting women and
Speaker 1: being sexist and disrespectful, But as women, we have to
Speaker 1: look at our behavior too. Are we making negative comments
Speaker 1: about another woman's body or or a dress she's wearing.
Speaker 1: Are we saying that with other people and having a
Speaker 1: discussion about that. We're creating a very toxic environment that
Speaker 1: says talking about the woman's body is okay to do,
Speaker 1: so we really need to be careful about that. And
Speaker 1: I think another thing is revaluing ourselves really not allowing
Speaker 1: negative thoughts, whether it's stereotypes, direct comments, self doubt, to
Speaker 1: really inform who we really are, you know, really focusing
Speaker 1: on the value of who you are and who you
Speaker 1: believe you are, who you want to be, building yourself up,
Speaker 1: and really just confronting poor behavior. I was on Facebook
Speaker 1: the other day and it was a post about someone
Speaker 1: commenting on someone's body part, and there was a long
Speaker 1: thread of it and it was so funny and people
Speaker 1: are just comment on this and that. I was reading
Speaker 1: this and it happened to be about a mail, but
Speaker 1: I was reading this and I was thinking, this is
Speaker 1: so unacceptable. This post is about a physical feature about
Speaker 1: someone and we're just going to publicly talk negatively about it.
Speaker 1: And what I posted was, you know, I'm just not
Speaker 1: into shaming bodies, whether they're men or women. That's just me.
Speaker 1: And that was my way of just pushing back. So
Speaker 1: I think we just have to kind of confront and
Speaker 1: behavior when we see it as well, because it can
Speaker 1: be very detrimental and it's very toxic. So I'm glad
Speaker 1: that you said that, Natalie, because I think we saw
Speaker 1: a lot of this um and I guess it would
Speaker 1: still be considered body shaming, though not necessarily around a
Speaker 1: body part, but related to Gabby Douglas and her hair um.
Speaker 1: When she was in the Olympics, right, like, it felt
Speaker 1: like there were a lot of like jokes and memes
Speaker 1: and you know, kind of like rude comments made about
Speaker 1: her hair. And then you know, years later when she
Speaker 1: was interviewed, she talked about how hurtful that had been.
Speaker 1: Absolutely and let's look at that joy. You know, we're
Speaker 1: talking about twenty twelve and the London Olympics and we're
Speaker 1: facing history as African Americans, the first black woman to
Speaker 1: win gold individually end all around competition history lawless on
Speaker 1: the floor, and the focus was her hair being flipped
Speaker 1: back with clips in it, I mean, and that has
Speaker 1: to have been very hurtful for Gabby as she is
Speaker 1: trying to first off, the only African American on the team,
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of pressure just to deal with
Speaker 1: that and to hear all of this criticism about how
Speaker 1: she is wearing her hair and if that is the
Speaker 1: thing she needs to be worrying about. And you know,
Speaker 1: I found that really interesting. And I was sitting by
Speaker 1: a lot of the criticism what's coming from our own community,
Speaker 1: and where it was focus was about, you know, how
Speaker 1: her hair looks, and you know it's unkept and it's
Speaker 1: unneed and it's unsanitary. So I read something like that
Speaker 1: and I have to question, like, what is happening within
Speaker 1: us that, Wow, history is being made. He act the
Speaker 1: Olympics were worried about how Gabby's hair looks. I was
Speaker 1: worried about it. She's gonna stick the landing, That's what
Speaker 1: I was worried about. But you know, it's very interesting
Speaker 1: and and it's truly sad, and I think we have
Speaker 1: to really live deeper in some of the self hatreot
Speaker 1: that we can have in community, in our community particularly,
Speaker 1: And where do you think some of that comes from?
Speaker 1: Can you talk more about that? Well, some of it
Speaker 1: is being uncomfortable with people in different spaces. I think
Speaker 1: there's a lack of connection within ourselves. And I was
Speaker 1: reading an article of the other day about how adolescent
Speaker 1: and teenage girls when they get upset, the first thing
Speaker 1: they do is attacked their friends physically. You know, you
Speaker 1: have a big nose, or or that's why you're you're
Speaker 1: so fat. And what the research was saying is that
Speaker 1: what happens is instead of dealing with the actual emotions
Speaker 1: that are happening in that moment, we go on an
Speaker 1: attack physically because that's the first thing we see. But
Speaker 1: what's really going on is I'm feeling hurt, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm hurt that you're not talking to me, or I
Speaker 1: miss you as a friend, And instead of dealing with
Speaker 1: those emotions and that and and dealing with being vulnerable
Speaker 1: and talking about that, we attack person physically. I think
Speaker 1: also when it relates to athletes on a very public stage,
Speaker 1: I think it's a lot of racism, and I think
Speaker 1: people just y into not even realizing that it's sexist
Speaker 1: and racists and other people of the same communities kind
Speaker 1: of buy into that thought process. So we really have
Speaker 1: to be aware of, you know, where are some of
Speaker 1: these comments and some of the feelings that we are having,
Speaker 1: where are they coming from, and really need to address that.
Speaker 1: It definitely sounds like you mentioned before, like the self
Speaker 1: assessment pizza is really important, but also kind of pushing
Speaker 1: back and calling other people out, are calling them in
Speaker 1: when you see other people making comments that are not
Speaker 1: very healthy or helpful to other people, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: And you know, I don't I think we really realize
Speaker 1: the severity of some of the effects of body shaming.
Speaker 1: Whether it's an athlete or you know, the next person
Speaker 1: next door. There's a lot of shame, you know, low
Speaker 1: self esteem and in extreme cases there there are at
Speaker 1: risk for eating disorders. You know, there are a lot
Speaker 1: of outcomes as it relates to isolating oneself, not wanting
Speaker 1: to be social, and when we look at that, you know,
Speaker 1: that is a real obstacle in your day to day living.
Speaker 1: If you're if you're not willing to try for that promotion,
Speaker 1: or you're not willing to speak in a group project
Speaker 1: where you're not willing to go to that mixer because
Speaker 1: you know you have in the past felt bad about
Speaker 1: how you look physically. There's a daily impact that people
Speaker 1: experience because of the negative effects of talking about how
Speaker 1: one looks walking around in their body every day. It's
Speaker 1: very significant, and I don't think we talk about it
Speaker 1: or we realize it and I appreciate you Joy for
Speaker 1: really allowing me to talk about it, because it's really serious.
Speaker 1: When we're talking about our young girls and wanting them
Speaker 1: to be confident and heard of and wanting them to
Speaker 1: achieve their goals, it's hard to do that if you
Speaker 1: don't feel good about yourself. Yeah, I would imagine so,
Speaker 1: and I would imagine you know, like even more like
Speaker 1: for you know, your athletes, because they do tend to
Speaker 1: be so much more visible, you know, like we've talked
Speaker 1: about Serena and Gabby, but even you know, your high
Speaker 1: school and college athletes do have some level of visibility
Speaker 1: you know, typically on their teams. So you're absolutely right,
Speaker 1: and they feel that pressure and stress too. And a
Speaker 1: lot of times I do have to do a check
Speaker 1: in as far as how they're feeling, you know, emotionally
Speaker 1: as it relates to you know, their way, their body. Uh,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of pressure in sports, um for young
Speaker 1: ladies to to have a certain fatique, to weigh a
Speaker 1: certain amount, you know, to look a certain way. And um,
Speaker 1: even though there may not be direct pressure sometimes to
Speaker 1: those athletes, they still feel it because there's a culture
Speaker 1: in sports around that. And and so you know, when
Speaker 1: we're talking about thirteen fourteen, you know, fifteen, sixteen years old.
Speaker 1: It's hard to navigate that space in that way. You know,
Speaker 1: when we're when we're young, we usually start out is
Speaker 1: body neutral or body positive. We're not conscious of how
Speaker 1: we look or anything that might be right or wrong
Speaker 1: with our bodies. We're just we're just existing. And then
Speaker 1: when people begin to comment on how we look physically,
Speaker 1: comment on our our shape or our size, we become
Speaker 1: aware of our body and this is the time when
Speaker 1: that negative body image starts to happen, when we start
Speaker 1: comparing ourselves to others, when we start hearing those comments
Speaker 1: like you know, if you don't lose the weight, you're
Speaker 1: not gonna get a date, you know, those kind of
Speaker 1: things where we work initially thinking about our bodies that way,
Speaker 1: but then that outside influences affects us and it has
Speaker 1: a real impact and how we think about ourselves. And
Speaker 1: then dooy not to mention the media and social media,
Speaker 1: you know, when we think about how Beyonce's body looks,
Speaker 1: or how a model looks, or how people put things
Speaker 1: on on on social media and it's photoshops and our
Speaker 1: young girls are having these aspirations to look like this
Speaker 1: when it's not even a real concept, and you know
Speaker 1: it really it really opened my eyes. This past weekend,
Speaker 1: I was in Toronto for the Carnival celebration there, and
Speaker 1: if you're not familiar with Carnival, it's the celebration of
Speaker 1: the emancipation of Africans enslaved people emancipated. And so they
Speaker 1: have on the outfit and joy I will tell you,
Speaker 1: I have never seen anything like this where there were
Speaker 1: all the body type that had on these any type
Speaker 1: outfits with the feathers and very little on and I'm
Speaker 1: saying when I say, the bodies of women that were
Speaker 1: considered plus size, stretch marks, cell you like rolls, extra skin,
Speaker 1: and they were out there celebrating the emancipation of African slaves.
Speaker 1: I had never seen anything in the United States of
Speaker 1: such pride of women's body. I was all struck. You know,
Speaker 1: in the States, we are so conditioned to you know,
Speaker 1: everything less look perfect, and we have to fit this
Speaker 1: certain body type and we have to lose weight and
Speaker 1: we have to look like this. And I was over
Speaker 1: there and I was looking at all these women and
Speaker 1: they were just regularly looking women like my body in
Speaker 1: the mirror, which I would be shy to show to anyone,
Speaker 1: but they were just out there, and it really taught
Speaker 1: me that, you know, as women, we have this unconscious
Speaker 1: kind of self shame about how we look if it
Speaker 1: doesn't fit a certain conception. And I think we see
Speaker 1: that a lot of the in nine Estates. And and
Speaker 1: I think that it's really important that we really talk
Speaker 1: about and emphasized self acceptance. You know, we're so focused
Speaker 1: on the physical outward look of someone when we're not
Speaker 1: looking at their abilities and their intellect and their personality
Speaker 1: and their gifts. And I think it's it's a really
Speaker 1: miss in our culture today. And and when I was
Speaker 1: saying that festival, when I was at the parade, you know,
Speaker 1: it was really an eye opening experience for me to
Speaker 1: just say, you know, it's okay, it doesn't matter how
Speaker 1: you look to be who you are. I think we
Speaker 1: need much more of that here. So how do you
Speaker 1: suggest we do some of that natally? I mean, given that,
Speaker 1: you know, our culture is so full of these messages
Speaker 1: about women's bodies in particular, you know, like, how do
Speaker 1: we start to break free from some of that? I
Speaker 1: think that we start with our young girls, for one, UM,
Speaker 1: to really normalize them as who they are right, UM,
Speaker 1: to really value them no matter who they are, what
Speaker 1: they look like, UM, how long their hair is, what
Speaker 1: color their skin tone is, how their body looks. I
Speaker 1: think we should just love them the way they are
Speaker 1: and empower them. I think that's the beginning of that,
Speaker 1: I think. And then it also seems to really allowing
Speaker 1: ourselves to be okay with who we are. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's really no such thing as a perfect body, and
Speaker 1: when we have that type of construct of an idea,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a set up for failure. So if
Speaker 1: we could just be okay with being normal, I think
Speaker 1: that is a huge concept of you know what. You know,
Speaker 1: I have a little extra weight, and you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm still going to wear these shorts because it's hot today,
Speaker 1: and and that's okay. I think there's too much of
Speaker 1: criticizing and and we have to call that out and
Speaker 1: we have to kind of live in our own truth,
Speaker 1: in our own lives to say I'm not going to
Speaker 1: buy into that. I'm not going to contribute to it.
Speaker 1: My goal should not be perfectionist, should be, you know,
Speaker 1: the best value. So I think changing some of the dialogue,
Speaker 1: joy is really important and really valuing things more than
Speaker 1: just the physical cality of of how we look. Got it.
Speaker 1: I also really like, you know when you said the
Speaker 1: whole starting with our girls. I'm encouraged that I've seen
Speaker 1: more of those lists recently. I'm sure you have um
Speaker 1: of like things to say to a girl besides like
Speaker 1: that she looks pretty like you know, you can tell
Speaker 1: them that she is really smarter. I'm really glad that
Speaker 1: you stuck with that. You know, like all different kinds
Speaker 1: of compliments you can give to young girls that don't
Speaker 1: put the focus on their physicality, and just doing that
Speaker 1: is so impactful in a young girl's life by just saying,
Speaker 1: you know, you really had a great answer. You know,
Speaker 1: that was so great. You showed so much courage when
Speaker 1: you did what you did. You know, looking beyond just
Speaker 1: how we look is so important. And you know, at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, our look sadd and and
Speaker 1: and that is just not the the important things of
Speaker 1: in life. You know, it really needs to we really
Speaker 1: need to be focusing on with our girls, you know,
Speaker 1: encouraging their goals and their aspirations and building up how
Speaker 1: they feel about themselves as an individual. Not necessarily how
Speaker 1: they look physically. And that's really important to me when
Speaker 1: I work with young girls and young women for that matter,
Speaker 1: is really having them to look at what do they think,
Speaker 1: what are they feel, and what do they expect? And
Speaker 1: none of that has anything to do with how they
Speaker 1: look physically. It's about getting in touch with who they
Speaker 1: are as an individual. And I think when we do that,
Speaker 1: we feel better about ourselves internally, and in turn, we
Speaker 1: feel better about ourselves physically on the outside as well.
Speaker 1: So what are some of your favorite resources natally? What
Speaker 1: are your kind of go to books for people who
Speaker 1: want to learn more or um you know, have more
Speaker 1: discussions around this topic. I'm actually reading right now a
Speaker 1: book um Family Joy. There's not a lot to believe
Speaker 1: it or not, there's not a lot of resources as
Speaker 1: it relates to UM, the black um female body, and
Speaker 1: as it relates to athletes, there's not a lot of
Speaker 1: research out there about it. But there is a book
Speaker 1: that I found and it's called Recovering the Black Female Body,
Speaker 1: and it's a book of essays talking about some of
Speaker 1: the things we talked about today, and it's a collection
Speaker 1: of essays in theories with the intersection of black fem
Speaker 1: of bodies and the Western culture. So it's a really
Speaker 1: interesting and informative read. I would highly recommend that as
Speaker 1: it relates to this topic today. And I do have
Speaker 1: some other resources that are just related to, you know,
Speaker 1: athletes and mental health. I listen to a couple of
Speaker 1: podcasts I'm really a fan of. One is called UM
Speaker 1: Sports Psychology Today, and that podcast talks about course psychology
Speaker 1: as it relates to collegiate athletes and high school athletes,
Speaker 1: and there's some mental health episodes on this so I'm
Speaker 1: a big fan of that. I have a couple resources
Speaker 1: myself and I I have a Pinterest page where I
Speaker 1: provide a lot of resources for athletes and people who
Speaker 1: love athletes and they're concerned about maybe mental health or
Speaker 1: performance challenges. So you could find that on Pinterest under
Speaker 1: Natalie Grade Athletic Counseling Joy. Just for your listeners, I
Speaker 1: have a free mental health checklist for athletes. Do you
Speaker 1: need more information about your athlete you're concerned about maybe
Speaker 1: some at risk symptoms or behaviors. I have a checklist
Speaker 1: that you can I can email to you from an
Speaker 1: athlete in your life. You're an athlete and you you
Speaker 1: want to know more about mental health as it relates
Speaker 1: to your sports, I'm happy to send that out to
Speaker 1: you and always Joy anyone who I know, I always
Speaker 1: recommend your podcast and then I'm not just saying that,
Speaker 1: I mean it is like the best thing out here,
Speaker 1: So I always reference therapi of Black Girls podcasts with
Speaker 1: those are kind of my top resources that I give
Speaker 1: to people. Perfect I like that. And what is your
Speaker 1: website for people who want to be able to get
Speaker 1: in touch with you or find out more about your services,
Speaker 1: Natalie Sure, It's Natalie Grades dot com, so you can
Speaker 1: reach me there. I'm on Facebook. My private practice page
Speaker 1: is Natalie Grades Athletic Counseling. You could find me there.
Speaker 1: On Twitter it's Natalie Underscore One. I'm on Instagram Natalie
Speaker 1: Grad's Athletic Counselor, and you can also email me directly
Speaker 1: at Natalie Grades LPs W at gmail dot com. Sounds good,
Speaker 1: and of course we will have all that information in
Speaker 1: the show notes for people who want to reference it later. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today, Natalie, I
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me Joy,
Speaker 1: It's really great. Absolutely, I'm so thankful Natalie was able
Speaker 1: to share her expertise with us today. To check out
Speaker 1: the resources that she shared and to learn more about
Speaker 1: her practice, visit the show notes at Therapy for Black
Speaker 1: Girls dot Com slash Session seventy four, and please make
Speaker 1: sure to share your takeaways with us from the episode
Speaker 1: in your I G stories. Make sure to use the
Speaker 1: hashtag TVG and session so that we can find them
Speaker 1: and share them. If you're looking for a therapist in
Speaker 1: your area, be sure to visit the therapist directory at
Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot Com slash directory. And if
Speaker 1: you want to continue this conversation and join a community
Speaker 1: of other sisters who listen to the podcast, join us
Speaker 1: over in the Thrive tribe at Therapy for Black Girls
Speaker 1: dot com slash tribe. Make sure you answer the three
Speaker 1: questions that are asked to gain entry. Thank y'all so
Speaker 1: much again for joining me this week, and I look
Speaker 1: forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.
Speaker 1: Take it care. Two