Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for a Black Girls Podcasts, a
Speaker 1: weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the
Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible
Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Hard and Bradford,
Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information,
Speaker 1: visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com.
Speaker 1: And while I hope you love listening to and learning
Speaker 1: from the podcast, it is not meant to be a
Speaker 1: substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining me for session seventy eight
Speaker 1: of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. Today, we have
Speaker 1: a repeat guest with us to talk all about mindfulness.
Speaker 1: You may remember Shawna Murray Brown from session forty six
Speaker 1: where we discuss mental health needs of activists. If you
Speaker 1: haven't listened to that one already, you definitely want to
Speaker 1: add it to your playlists. Shawna is the director and
Speaker 1: founder of Kindred Wellness in integrated practice dedicated to honoring culture,
Speaker 1: expanding mindfulness, and holding safer space for change makers, black women,
Speaker 1: leaders and their families to heal. Shawna is a licensed
Speaker 1: clinical social worker in the state of Maryland, Keygong instructor, speaker,
Speaker 1: and mind body medicine practitioner. She holds a master's degree
Speaker 1: in social work from the University of Maryland Baltimore and
Speaker 1: a Bachelor of Science and Criminology and Family Science from
Speaker 1: the University of Maryland College Park. Shawna and I chatted
Speaker 1: about the definition of mindfulness. She addressed some of the
Speaker 1: myths you may have heard about mindfulness, She shared some
Speaker 1: ways you can begin to incorporate it into your life,
Speaker 1: and of course, she shared her favorite resources. If you
Speaker 1: hear something while you're listening that really connects with you,
Speaker 1: please share it with us on social media using the
Speaker 1: hashtag tv G in session. Here's our conversation. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining us again today, Shawn and you
Speaker 1: were a highly requested return guests. Um, so I'm happy
Speaker 1: you were able to come back and chat with us
Speaker 1: again today. I'm so excited all the time. Likewise, likewise,
Speaker 1: so I know, Shanna, and I am so impressed by
Speaker 1: how you really do such a great job. I think
Speaker 1: of like really doing the whole mind, body, spirit, using
Speaker 1: all of that in your work. And so I specifically
Speaker 1: wanted to hear you talk more about mindfulness and how
Speaker 1: you use mindfulness in your practice, But want to start
Speaker 1: by giving our listeners a definition of mindfulness. And I
Speaker 1: think sometimes people hear that we're and don't really know
Speaker 1: what it means. Okay, awesome, I can absolutely share so mindfulness.
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of different definitions out there,
Speaker 1: there is no one set definition, but the definition I
Speaker 1: use is focusing on one thing in the moment, non judgmentally,
Speaker 1: and so it's a state of awareness of being, of
Speaker 1: being and noticing what it's coming up for you. Okay.
Speaker 1: So I think that non judgmental and like one thing
Speaker 1: at a time pieces probably what trips a lot of
Speaker 1: people up. And and I think, you know, it would
Speaker 1: be important to kind of explain because I think people
Speaker 1: struggle with mindfulness sometimes because they like get upset with
Speaker 1: themselves that their mind does wander. But of course our
Speaker 1: mind wanders because it's kind of meant to do that, right,
Speaker 1: So can you talk about like how mindfulness actually looks
Speaker 1: in practice, that it's not really about like trying to
Speaker 1: ignore all of your other thoughts. Yeah. So when I
Speaker 1: first started to learn about like mindfulness, I was first
Speaker 1: introduced to it through meditation. That was one of the ways,
Speaker 1: and I was really frustrated with myself joy Like I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, my mind will not shut up. Like
Speaker 1: if this is the thing you think it's supposed to happen,
Speaker 1: it's totally not. But like if our mind stops moving,
Speaker 1: then something isn't right. It's really about noticing the thoughts
Speaker 1: that come up, not holding onto them or passing judgment
Speaker 1: about them, and noticing how it feels to be able
Speaker 1: to sit and almost observe your thoughts. I think one
Speaker 1: of the things that I found to be really supportive
Speaker 1: for clients that I support is separating the self or
Speaker 1: who they are from their thoughts, Like you are not
Speaker 1: your thoughts. So yeah, So the practice of mindfulness and
Speaker 1: the way that it looks it could mean doing a
Speaker 1: mindfulness meditation that might mean breathing and noticing your body
Speaker 1: breathing and trying to focus only on that breathing or
Speaker 1: mindfulness could be and more of like what I would
Speaker 1: consider like mindfulness and action, so being really present and
Speaker 1: walking and noticing how your feet feel when they touched
Speaker 1: the ground, or um being really present with your food.
Speaker 1: I might pull out a grape and I'll be like, Okay, y'all,
Speaker 1: what color is the grape? And I would be like what, Misshana,
Speaker 1: And it's sort of like really being present with all
Speaker 1: the aspects of that one thing at a time. So
Speaker 1: I know that there are multiple different ways that you
Speaker 1: can practice mindful nis Shanna, can you tell us about
Speaker 1: some of the ways um or maybe some of the
Speaker 1: most popular ways that you use it in your practice. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: so the way that I use it in my practice
Speaker 1: is really fluid. So I've studied mindfulness on a large
Speaker 1: scale mind body medicine, which is really the sort of
Speaker 1: larger term for the way that the mind and the
Speaker 1: body work together for healing. And I've also studied what's
Speaker 1: called che gong, which is a traditional Chinese form of
Speaker 1: meditation that pairs breathing and color and movement altogether for
Speaker 1: a powerful healing experience. So the way that client that
Speaker 1: comes in may experience mindfulness with me would be really
Speaker 1: from the very beginning of their session, I'm inviting them
Speaker 1: to state how they're feeling physically, and I might guide
Speaker 1: them through a breathing activity called the body scan, from
Speaker 1: inviting them to close their eyes to relax their body
Speaker 1: to the extent that they can and they feel comfortable,
Speaker 1: and then notice that they feel any any sensation, if
Speaker 1: they feel nothing at all, if they feel any pain
Speaker 1: in a space, and then I invite them to sort
Speaker 1: of check in with themselves about what thoughts come up
Speaker 1: in that silence and in that stillness, about what they'd
Speaker 1: like to address for the day. Sometimes, UM, if my
Speaker 1: clients are struggling with things having to do with anxiety,
Speaker 1: then I am supporting them and learning from that space
Speaker 1: of being intentional about and aware of what's happening in
Speaker 1: their body, noticing, okay, what things are causing this anxiety
Speaker 1: and where are you feeling in your body right? And
Speaker 1: so this then allows my clients to be able to
Speaker 1: become a little bit more aware about what the beginning
Speaker 1: stage of anxiety looks like in their body. And then
Speaker 1: I teach them some breathing techniques, um to be able
Speaker 1: to help them to regain a sense of control and
Speaker 1: feeling safe again. If that makes sense, Yeah, Shana, And
Speaker 1: I think I'm wondering, you know, because I think, especially
Speaker 1: as black women, a lot of times we are doing
Speaker 1: a lot of what I call ripping and running. So
Speaker 1: we are, you know, going from this drop off to
Speaker 1: this meeting to go work on this project, and you know,
Speaker 1: just kind of always moving. And so I wonder if
Speaker 1: you find that people often have trouble kind of slowing
Speaker 1: down enough to really be able to kind of engage
Speaker 1: gen this kind of mindfulness activity. Absolutely, so I've not
Speaker 1: found any person that has not struggled. That's um, because
Speaker 1: we live in a society that is so much like
Speaker 1: you have to keep going right. One of the ways
Speaker 1: that we've managed to cope with a lot of the
Speaker 1: stress of having to balance many things, especially as black women,
Speaker 1: is that we essentially stuff it right. We don't realize
Speaker 1: that our emotions are actually a thing that could turn
Speaker 1: into a physical manifestation. But um, what I find is,
Speaker 1: and I use mindfulness both in my therapy practice UM
Speaker 1: and group and individual, and I even use it when
Speaker 1: I'm like speaking to large groups of people. And so
Speaker 1: I found that there is some worry about, well, what's
Speaker 1: gonna come up for me, or maybe I'm not doing
Speaker 1: it right, And that is a part of the practice
Speaker 1: is being aware of the fact that you have fifty
Speaker 1: million things running in your head and and sitting with
Speaker 1: and noticing what are those fifty million things that's running
Speaker 1: in your head. Let's write that down after you finished breathing. Right,
Speaker 1: Let's literally do a brain dup when you take sixty
Speaker 1: seconds and you write down all the things on your mind,
Speaker 1: and then we go back to breathing and see how
Speaker 1: does that feel? How does it feel that sort of
Speaker 1: get it out and maybe outline what are the things
Speaker 1: that you can actually control and what are the things
Speaker 1: that you can't. One of the underlying experiences that I
Speaker 1: found a lot of Black women have after sitting in
Speaker 1: the space and a mindful existence for the first time
Speaker 1: is that a lot of emotions come up. And that's
Speaker 1: the thing that you know, we know that as therapists
Speaker 1: that when we're holding space that emotions can be big.
Speaker 1: And I think that folks uh don't realize how much
Speaker 1: we hold in our physical body. And so when you
Speaker 1: actually start to breathe and you slow down, sometimes tears happen.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's relief, but certainly it's a challenge for everyone.
Speaker 1: But I've always found that folks felt better after trying it.
Speaker 1: Right now, you mentioned something shown that I want to
Speaker 1: make sure that we go back to. You said something about,
Speaker 1: you know, like the fact that your emotions can then
Speaker 1: turn into something that you feel physically, can you explain
Speaker 1: what that means? Like, how does that happen? Exactly? So
Speaker 1: from the perspective of traditional Chinese medicine and che gong
Speaker 1: or tai chi, what the ancient wisdom tells us is
Speaker 1: that all of our emotions are energy, and that if
Speaker 1: you say, for example, if I sometimes I ask a
Speaker 1: run of black women, how I ask everybody to raise
Speaker 1: their hands and they have lower back pain? And usually
Speaker 1: everybody raises their hands like they're like, actually, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: feeling a lot of lower back pain right now. I
Speaker 1: could use a massage. And so I invite everybody to
Speaker 1: sort of stamp up, and I showed them a chart
Speaker 1: and then let's as I showed them that according to
Speaker 1: traditional Chinese medicine, we hold fear and our kidneys. That
Speaker 1: is that fear that is not expressed, That is not
Speaker 1: a process that we haven't let out either, maybe through crying,
Speaker 1: maybe through talking about it, maybe writing it out. If
Speaker 1: it's an unresolved emotional experience, that it has to go somewhere.
Speaker 1: We talked about stuffing sometimes, um, I think in our
Speaker 1: passing conversations about what we do with our emotions. But
Speaker 1: what I'm saying is that we literally store emotions and
Speaker 1: unresolved emotions and our physical body and so like fear
Speaker 1: storing itself and our kidneys, or not being able to breathe.
Speaker 1: If you have experienced grief, you've experienced a loss, and
Speaker 1: you find yourself a breathing really short throughout a long
Speaker 1: period of time, what the traditional Chinese medicine would say
Speaker 1: is that is grief stored in the loans, and that
Speaker 1: by bringing your awareness and attention to your loans and
Speaker 1: communing with or releasing some of the unresolved emotions associated
Speaker 1: with grief, you will also find that your physical experience
Speaker 1: of being able to breathe becomes better. So I have
Speaker 1: a client that I've been working with for about a
Speaker 1: year and she's expressed, hey, like, I can't like what
Speaker 1: is this going on in my chest? And she's identified
Speaker 1: her own grieving process, and through that as well as
Speaker 1: through some che gone mindfulness activities, now she feels like, oh,
Speaker 1: I can actually hold my breath far longer than before.
Speaker 1: So that's really interesting. I didn't know that shown that
Speaker 1: there were particular like spaces in the body that have
Speaker 1: been associated with particular emotions and feelings. Absolutely, and so
Speaker 1: these are of course, when we're talking about mindfulness from
Speaker 1: a broad spect from mindfulness has always been rooted in
Speaker 1: ancient practice, right. So when I say ancient, really really
Speaker 1: really old, I'm all over the world, right, And so
Speaker 1: in particular studies and particular parts of the world have
Speaker 1: pointed down to a science of connecting our physical experiences
Speaker 1: and emotional experiences together. And so I can actually send
Speaker 1: a link to you, um joy, so that folks can
Speaker 1: actually see the chart that I'm talking about, Like if
Speaker 1: there's a five element emotions chart that literally talks about
Speaker 1: where moodiness and heartbreak stores itself in the heart, where
Speaker 1: grief stores it self in the loans, where fear holds
Speaker 1: itself and their kidneys, and that those things may also
Speaker 1: correlate to some of the patterns around health and wellness.
Speaker 1: So you know, the number one killer of black women
Speaker 1: in the United States of America, it's heart disease. And
Speaker 1: so when I say that and then I talk about
Speaker 1: heartbreak and sorrow and anger storing itself in the heart,
Speaker 1: people are like wow, So like me holding onto the
Speaker 1: emotional aspects or refusing to forgive, or maybe the generational
Speaker 1: history and trauma of living in the United States can
Speaker 1: be overwhelmed, and it's like, Yeah, that's a really depressing
Speaker 1: thing that we could focus on, or we could say,
Speaker 1: here are some of the really powerful ways that you
Speaker 1: can heal something that's really intangible and that could feel
Speaker 1: really overwhelming. Here's some a way that you can actually
Speaker 1: release some of that energy that you may not be
Speaker 1: able to put words to. Yeah. I really like that
Speaker 1: connection because I do think that that gives you, like
Speaker 1: like you were talking about, like the ability to control
Speaker 1: the things that you do actually have control over, like
Speaker 1: learning how to breathe more, you know, intentionally and kind
Speaker 1: of being more mindful exactly. And that's really what brought
Speaker 1: me to studying and trying to figure out how I
Speaker 1: could learn it so that I could share it with
Speaker 1: black women and our families. Right as soon as I
Speaker 1: heard the man that came all the way from China,
Speaker 1: the training that I was about the ability to be
Speaker 1: able to breathe and do certain movements to be able
Speaker 1: to alleviate some of the pain that we held in
Speaker 1: my heart, I was like, I gotta figure this out.
Speaker 1: Like we made that right, So what are some of
Speaker 1: the reasons show know why you might want to practice mindfulness, Like,
Speaker 1: in what kind of circumstance would it be helpful to
Speaker 1: really have a good mindfulness practice? Okay, I would say
Speaker 1: that I think everyone could benefit from mindfulness. Of course
Speaker 1: that's me being biased, But there's some sons of research
Speaker 1: where they've been able to delineate exactly how it impacts folks,
Speaker 1: especially if you are practicing mindfulness and therapy. Now, most
Speaker 1: of the research has been on mindfulness meditation specifically, and
Speaker 1: they found like a reduction in ruminate or like if
Speaker 1: you have like a thought that you just can't get
Speaker 1: out your mind and you keep you know, you can't
Speaker 1: let go of a thing that happened to you, or
Speaker 1: you can't let go of a feeling more emotion of
Speaker 1: a person that has done something wrong. The practice of
Speaker 1: mindfulness is supported in reducing that kind of repetitiveness or
Speaker 1: increasing memory base. Right, So, one of the things that
Speaker 1: we know about the impact of experiencing hardship or trauma
Speaker 1: is that you forget things right, You're unable to remember
Speaker 1: even things that happened in the past, or even things
Speaker 1: that happened throughout your day. And so through the practice
Speaker 1: of mindfulness, folks have experienced or witnessed better memory, reduction
Speaker 1: of stress, being able to focus better, being less emotionally reactive.
Speaker 1: So if you are like a sistem that goes zero
Speaker 1: to a hundred real quick, like the practicing mindfulness and
Speaker 1: support you and being able to not respond, not pop
Speaker 1: off on a person because they've maybe even pushing their buttons,
Speaker 1: but being able to actually like calm and and think
Speaker 1: more clearly and make different decisions, and some of the
Speaker 1: other benefits would be like being less rigid. Right, Like,
Speaker 1: so some of us may have like really fixed ideas
Speaker 1: about what our life should be like, how our days
Speaker 1: should go. Right and through the practice of mindfulness, we
Speaker 1: we found that folks have been able to release the
Speaker 1: being fixated on one way of doing things and are
Speaker 1: generally just more open to other ways of being able
Speaker 1: to have experience success or happiness. It really just all around.
Speaker 1: It literally impacts your brain. Like specifically, all of those
Speaker 1: things have to do with the part of the brain
Speaker 1: that's the middle prefrontal lobe area, and folks may not
Speaker 1: want to know that, but like it's really great. So
Speaker 1: so basically you're saying that just the practice of like
Speaker 1: the mindfulness and meditation, like you're saying the research is
Speaker 1: mostly about that that causes maybe some differences in your
Speaker 1: brain so that you're able to be more flexible, you're
Speaker 1: able to be less rigid, less anxious, all of those
Speaker 1: things you describe absolutely, And then there's a lot of
Speaker 1: times where like the practice of a lot of organizations
Speaker 1: for folks that you know are just really may be
Speaker 1: focused on winning in their career or business like all
Speaker 1: of these things. If you're better focused, you have better memory,
Speaker 1: you're less stressed, you do better at work, you are
Speaker 1: better at home. Just your relationships and your ability to
Speaker 1: be able to develop your relationships and improves as well.
Speaker 1: I mean there's even research joy this is the therapist
Speaker 1: that is teaching the meditation or my and mindfulness um improves.
Speaker 1: We're improving empathy and compassion and reduction and stress. So
Speaker 1: it's like it's beneficial for everybody, right, this is this
Speaker 1: is like the the key, right, Like everybody needs to
Speaker 1: learn how to do this. But but I do think,
Speaker 1: you know, there are so many different types. And I remember,
Speaker 1: you know, like when I first was introduced to like meditation,
Speaker 1: I think in grad school, like there was audio of
Speaker 1: like waves crashing or something, and I did not at
Speaker 1: all find that comforting because I can't swim, and so
Speaker 1: in some ways that made me anxious, right, But I
Speaker 1: think it just speaks to the greater point that everything
Speaker 1: is not going to be for everybody, and so something
Speaker 1: that may be really calming and relaxing for me is
Speaker 1: not going to be the same for you. And so
Speaker 1: how does someone go about like finding like what maybe
Speaker 1: the thing for them in terms of like mindfulness. So
Speaker 1: one of the ways that I think it's really awesome,
Speaker 1: it's just being open minded and trying different things, not
Speaker 1: getting frustrated about or sort of writing off mindfulness one
Speaker 1: time because you had an experience that didn't work for you,
Speaker 1: but recognizing that because there are so many different ways
Speaker 1: being open to explore. And so for example, yoga is
Speaker 1: mindfulness practice, right. Everybody doesn't like yoga, right, but that
Speaker 1: is one way to practice it. Um if you are
Speaker 1: maybe sitting and doing a meditation and silence and noticing
Speaker 1: your breath really works, but for others that might not
Speaker 1: be the thing. Sitting and being focused on just being
Speaker 1: with your tea in the morning or your coffee the
Speaker 1: way that you start your day and instead of flipping
Speaker 1: through a newspaper while drinking your coffee while watching the television.
Speaker 1: You decide you're just going to be with that cup
Speaker 1: and you're just going to reflect on your breath and
Speaker 1: noticing how you feel as you drink your your cup
Speaker 1: of coffee or teeth throughout the day. That might work
Speaker 1: for you where I wouldn't work for others. Taking a
Speaker 1: walk outside and noticing what's coming up for you in nature,
Speaker 1: noticing the creatures around you, that could be something that
Speaker 1: would be really awesome. I love personally joy being on
Speaker 1: the beach and looking at the word for me is
Speaker 1: really soothing. And doing that only not with music, not
Speaker 1: with a book, but simply being with myself in that
Speaker 1: space is really helpful. So I'll but say that one
Speaker 1: of the ways is just being really open to exploring
Speaker 1: many of the different ways that you can practice mindfulness.
Speaker 1: Can you do mindfulness with music? Yes, one of the
Speaker 1: other ways to be mindful it could be to just
Speaker 1: to sit and listen to a song. And but just
Speaker 1: being with the music right, like not running with the
Speaker 1: music right, it's simply being And it doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: running with the music isn't also awesome. But when we're
Speaker 1: talking about mindfulness in particular, it is practicing being with
Speaker 1: one thing in that moment. Okay, I mean it would
Speaker 1: be important to be mindful or thoughtful about the kind
Speaker 1: of music you're listening to, hopefully selecting the kind of
Speaker 1: music that would actually support you and feeling better, because
Speaker 1: some of us have different kinds of music with different things,
Speaker 1: So music that might be soothing. There's nature applications around
Speaker 1: mindfulness where you can actually listen. You said you were
Speaker 1: listening to the water, right, so maybe that wouldn't be
Speaker 1: great for you, right, music that maybe that was drumming,
Speaker 1: or you know, some sort of consistent soothing experience that
Speaker 1: might work. And I also tell my client shawna um,
Speaker 1: you know, because I know there's also been, like you said,
Speaker 1: a lot of research that talked about like being able
Speaker 1: to do meditations to kind of calm yourself in a
Speaker 1: panic attack. But the key to that is that you
Speaker 1: can't like be trying to use or learn the meditation
Speaker 1: the moment you're having a panic attack, right, You need
Speaker 1: to have already been practicing it so that you know
Speaker 1: when you need it it is accessible exactly, So everything
Speaker 1: is a practice. So that means that you may try
Speaker 1: the first time, and you're like, I was totally unable
Speaker 1: to focus on my breath. I fell asleep, right, And
Speaker 1: so you know, recognizing that's a part of the journey
Speaker 1: and you're falling asleep can happen. The goal is just
Speaker 1: maintain your awareness while you're doing it, and so forth.
Speaker 1: When we're talking about someone having a panic attack in
Speaker 1: the moment, certainly if they've been able to practice it
Speaker 1: at home and figuring out how to just breathe when
Speaker 1: you're at a red light, right, if you're a person
Speaker 1: that has real rage and you're driving, how to instead
Speaker 1: of cursing the person out that just cuts you off,
Speaker 1: deciding that you're gonna breathe them, feel your belly was
Speaker 1: there for a moment and really and allow that person
Speaker 1: that just did that thing to get to wherever they're
Speaker 1: going without taking it in. When you're practicing it first
Speaker 1: alone and then you apply it to your day to
Speaker 1: day life, it tends to be a lot easier because
Speaker 1: it just some muscles that you're exercising, Right, Your mindfulness
Speaker 1: muscle a muscle like anything else, right, that we need
Speaker 1: to be practicing. Another way to bring mindfulness practice into
Speaker 1: your life, it could absolutely be breath, or it could
Speaker 1: be um having a thing like a rock or a
Speaker 1: stress ball or something furry or fluffy that you can
Speaker 1: keep in your pocket that you can rub on to
Speaker 1: help you calm. And so maybe if not focusing in
Speaker 1: on your breath and focusing in on your breath doesn't work,
Speaker 1: it may mean okay, maybe having something in your pocket
Speaker 1: that you can rub in your hand and you can
Speaker 1: bring your attention and awareness to how does my hand
Speaker 1: feel rubbing this bead or rubbing this or squeezing the
Speaker 1: stress ball or holding this crystal or you know, the
Speaker 1: stone and focusing your awareness on that. That can also
Speaker 1: be an easy way. It doesn't take a lot of
Speaker 1: practice in the same way that meditation might, but still
Speaker 1: mean that we would have to spend some time figuring
Speaker 1: out what is the thing that I can carry on
Speaker 1: my pocket that that I actually would want to look
Speaker 1: at and focus my awareness on in times of me right. Right, So,
Speaker 1: something else I think that comes up, SHAWNA that I've
Speaker 1: heard related to like mindfulness and meditation, is you know, like,
Speaker 1: is this some kind of religious thing? Right? Like is
Speaker 1: this you know, some kind of pig and something or
Speaker 1: you know, like people have given that as reasons why
Speaker 1: they might not want to try it. So, are there
Speaker 1: other myths or things that you've heard that you wanted
Speaker 1: to spel related to mindfulness? Absolutely? So the first one
Speaker 1: that I wanted to spell is what you just said.
Speaker 1: So so it is not so. Yes, mindfulness is rooted
Speaker 1: in many spiritual practices throughout the world, but that mindfulness practice,
Speaker 1: the meditation specifically, is actually also connected to many of
Speaker 1: the religious practices that we may have. For example, prayer
Speaker 1: is a form of mindfulness. It is being present in
Speaker 1: the moment and that right and that that is one.
Speaker 1: So I think it's important for folks technology that while yes, UM,
Speaker 1: the practice of mindfulness is inspired by UM many of
Speaker 1: the traditional religions throughout the world, it is not a
Speaker 1: religious practice. Deciding to focus in on your breath alone,
Speaker 1: UM is not a religious practice. It is something that
Speaker 1: everyone can have access to, be your religion or spiritual
Speaker 1: practice or none at all. Even if you're just like
Speaker 1: you know what that you know spirituality isn't for me, like,
Speaker 1: you can still have access to this practice without interfering
Speaker 1: with whatever your beliefs are. Because being in your body
Speaker 1: is something that you're doing right now, why not do
Speaker 1: it um intentionally. And one of the other things that
Speaker 1: I've heard a lot is folks thinking that you have
Speaker 1: to sit like a statue and you can't move when
Speaker 1: you're practicing mindfulness meditation, and that is false. So there
Speaker 1: are walking meditations right, There are moving meditations like yoga,
Speaker 1: like like. These are ways that you are in the
Speaker 1: moment um intentionally and they are meditative. But there are
Speaker 1: practices a way of to practice mindfulness that does not
Speaker 1: require you to sit still without moving. And if you
Speaker 1: do decide to sit still to practice a mindfulness meditation,
Speaker 1: you can do that. But if you get like a
Speaker 1: Charlie horse in your leg during your meditation, you absolutely
Speaker 1: can move like It doesn't mean that you did not
Speaker 1: do a great job at practicing that mindfulness moment and
Speaker 1: that experience. One of the other things that I've heard
Speaker 1: is that you have to have like a zen like location.
Speaker 1: It has to be completely cleared out right with with
Speaker 1: plants around. No, you can do this any way you'd like.
Speaker 1: It is helpful, I think in the beginning of your
Speaker 1: relationship with yourself and your mind to to practice in
Speaker 1: a space where you feel safe, right where you feel
Speaker 1: like you're not gonna be interrupted so that you can
Speaker 1: strengthen the muscle, so to speak, but over time, and
Speaker 1: you can practice wherever. The point is to create a
Speaker 1: lifestyle where no matter what's happening around you, you can
Speaker 1: still have the inward awareness of what's going on, how
Speaker 1: you're feeling, and regain some groundedness or being present in
Speaker 1: the moment. What else. Oh, that's not for people who
Speaker 1: think too much. Well, I thank too much, y'all, and
Speaker 1: I do it all the time, right, It's absolutely for
Speaker 1: folks who feel like they have a lot on their mind,
Speaker 1: because this will support in reducing some of those, um
Speaker 1: some of the angst and stress that can come from
Speaker 1: having a mindful of thoughts all the time, and and
Speaker 1: can support you and actually maybe even um releasing some
Speaker 1: of the things that you're holding in your mind. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's what I got. Okay, Yeah, I do
Speaker 1: think that that is probably the most common things that
Speaker 1: I've heard, especially like that you have to be sitting
Speaker 1: like you know, like the Buddha kind of statue, right,
Speaker 1: or you know that it only looks one way when
Speaker 1: really there are tons of different ways you can meditate
Speaker 1: or be mindful. And I would say I like folks
Speaker 1: also talk about it taking too long and and you know,
Speaker 1: like you do not have to sit for hours upon
Speaker 1: hours of doing this practice. I would say, start at
Speaker 1: least with a five minute point and see how you
Speaker 1: feel in that moment, Like, start with a goal of
Speaker 1: five minutes, and then it can grow from there. Yes,
Speaker 1: I've certainly meditated for a couple of hours at a time,
Speaker 1: but that was after having a really hard time in
Speaker 1: the beginning just being present with myself for two minutes,
Speaker 1: and so over the practice of doing this for years, um,
Speaker 1: I've gotten to a point where I can do that.
Speaker 1: But even though I can do that now, like sometimes
Speaker 1: I can't. Like sometimes my practice is just supposed to
Speaker 1: be five minutes, y'all, and it still makes it um
Speaker 1: impactful and helpful for me and my body and the
Speaker 1: healing process that often happens when we decide to practice
Speaker 1: mindfulness or any kind of meditation and for me, Seanna,
Speaker 1: I think some of the easiest have been, um, like
Speaker 1: the eating exercises, so like you will open up a
Speaker 1: lifesaver and then just pay attention to the different flavors
Speaker 1: that it has, or you know, as it's kind of
Speaker 1: dissolving what are you feeling in that kind of thing, Like,
Speaker 1: those have been the easiest for me to kind of
Speaker 1: get into absolutely, and those are I mean, those are
Speaker 1: the most fun. Joy you're talking about it. I know
Speaker 1: that's right. Let's say that's a perfect way to practice
Speaker 1: it for those who maybe listening that like have children
Speaker 1: or work with children or you know, uh yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it's that's one of the most exciting activities that
Speaker 1: children love to do. That one. And there's also a
Speaker 1: shaking meditation that I do with children where we literally
Speaker 1: turned on like um music that sounds like um like uh,
Speaker 1: it sounds like a drum, and we literally jumped to
Speaker 1: the music of the drum as a release. Nice. Then
Speaker 1: he said, does sound like a lot of fun. Even
Speaker 1: adults I think could get into that. I get. I've
Speaker 1: been able to get a room full of like over
Speaker 1: a hundred adults to do it with me. It's so awesome.
Speaker 1: In the beginning they're like, I'm not doing that. It's
Speaker 1: gonna be so great. Yeah, And I'm glad you went
Speaker 1: back to that, Shanna, because I do think we should
Speaker 1: touch on that, like the whole need to be doing
Speaker 1: it right or like if you are in a group,
Speaker 1: worrying about like what you look like while you're participating
Speaker 1: in the mindfulness activity. He talked about that a little
Speaker 1: bit absolutely, so like there's no wrong way to do
Speaker 1: it except to not do it, or maybe to place
Speaker 1: judgment on it. So to think that you're doing it
Speaker 1: wrong because of X, Y Z, right, maybe because I
Speaker 1: didn't do it long enough, because I started crying, or
Speaker 1: I fell asleep or you know, my phone rang. It's
Speaker 1: really about being just the being committed to the practice.
Speaker 1: There's no wrong way to do it except to not
Speaker 1: do it at all. The other thing that I will
Speaker 1: say is if you go into it thinking this isn't
Speaker 1: gonna work for me, I don't want to do this,
Speaker 1: I don't have time for it, well, then you're probably right.
Speaker 1: Like if you have in your mind that it's it's
Speaker 1: not going to work psychologically, your body, your your body
Speaker 1: is gonna be like no, because you've already made the decision. Um.
Speaker 1: But now when we're talking about looking a full what
Speaker 1: I do, I'll create the safe space for people to
Speaker 1: be able to do it by being the first person
Speaker 1: to do it right. So I think what we are
Speaker 1: talking about individual practice, Um, this is something that you
Speaker 1: can do at home. You can do in your bed
Speaker 1: before you wake up, when when you go to sleep.
Speaker 1: For me, because I have a very little one and
Speaker 1: time alone is a hot commodity. When I go to
Speaker 1: the bathroom, listen here, okay, I make that I'm meditative
Speaker 1: mindfulness time. I might turn on music while I'm in
Speaker 1: the space so that no one can see. And so
Speaker 1: I would say, enjoy that. It's important to create a
Speaker 1: really powerful relationship with yourself where you can be vulnerable
Speaker 1: with yourself and creating this experience and then as it
Speaker 1: builds up, then when you are in a groups of spaces.
Speaker 1: If you're in a group of space with a person
Speaker 1: like me, I'm gonna make you feel comfortable cause I'm
Speaker 1: gonna make a fool of myself. I'm okay and unafraid
Speaker 1: of anyone being like, oh, she looked like a chicken,
Speaker 1: and be like, yes I did. Girl. We're gonna look
Speaker 1: like a chicken. Together. It's gonna be great. We're gonna
Speaker 1: make you look like chick. If you're listening, you're like,
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna ask my therapist about this.
Speaker 1: You know what, I need a therapist that does this.
Speaker 1: There are four acknowledged models UM, meaning like you know,
Speaker 1: like books and trainings that a therapist could go to
Speaker 1: to learn and and that you might see when you're
Speaker 1: searching on the therapy for Black Girls dot Com directory, UM,
Speaker 1: that would be one of them is called DBT And
Speaker 1: I know Joe you had you had all sessions where
Speaker 1: somewhere assisted talked about her practice and dialectical behavioral therapy,
Speaker 1: so that is a mindfulness UM based model UM ACT,
Speaker 1: which is acceptance and compassion therapy UM mindful. And then
Speaker 1: there's mindfulness based cognitive behavioral therapy so mindfulness based CBT,
Speaker 1: and I think you've also had a session about that.
Speaker 1: Look at you educating worlds. And then the last one
Speaker 1: UM that there's a lot of research on. It's called
Speaker 1: mindfulness based stress Reduction UM. And so all of these
Speaker 1: they have different ways of utilizing mindfulness. So DBT and
Speaker 1: a CT they're really focused on UM folks doing different
Speaker 1: mindful exercises like eating the grape and being really present
Speaker 1: UM like a walking meditation, and then noticing the thoughts
Speaker 1: that come up when you're in that mindful state. Whereas
Speaker 1: the last two mindfulness based stress reduction and mindfulness based
Speaker 1: CBT they literally teach mindfulness, meditation and really support the
Speaker 1: client and gaining those skills. I think no matter like
Speaker 1: I particularly love all of them. I use I've been
Speaker 1: trained in and use DBT, MBCT and mindfulness based stress reduction.
Speaker 1: But I am actually really fluid. So you could find
Speaker 1: a therapist that has one of those four acknowledge models,
Speaker 1: or you could know you might weed and their narrative
Speaker 1: that they use mindfulness or they are integrated, or that
Speaker 1: they support folks in somatics and embodiment, which is learning
Speaker 1: what comes up in your physical body and note to
Speaker 1: sing what's happening there. You might find a therapist that
Speaker 1: maybe uses yoga or like me, something like che gong
Speaker 1: or tiede sheet or some other movement. Or maybe you
Speaker 1: have a therapist that uses walk and talk therapy, Like
Speaker 1: walk and talk therapy can be if you're walking with
Speaker 1: your therapist outside and you are experiencing their therapy. Um,
Speaker 1: that's another way to infuse mindfulness into a therapy practice.
Speaker 1: So if you're looking for a therapist that uses mindfulness,
Speaker 1: those are some of the things you can look for.
Speaker 1: And I know it was a handful and a lot
Speaker 1: of alphabet suit but UM, but I'm sure that I
Speaker 1: can share a link that sort of offers some insight
Speaker 1: about those two. Yeah, and I will definitely list them
Speaker 1: out in the in the show notes so that people
Speaker 1: can have it to reference back. But I'm glad you
Speaker 1: brought that up though, right, because I do think it's
Speaker 1: just further highlights how we all practice very differently as therapists. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, because these are not things that I necessarily
Speaker 1: include in therapy, you know, because I haven't been particular
Speaker 1: they trained in any of these kinds of formats. Right.
Speaker 1: So if you feel like some of these things do
Speaker 1: appeal to you and you want to work with a
Speaker 1: therapist on them, then it is important to find a
Speaker 1: therapist who talks about the fact that they've had this
Speaker 1: training and can teach you how to do these things. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I mean I think to like, I don't I
Speaker 1: think for folks that maybe in therapy and their therapist
Speaker 1: doesn't use mindfulness, but they think that it could be
Speaker 1: really helpful. I think it's even just talking to your
Speaker 1: therapist about it, um, and maybe like exploring some of
Speaker 1: the apps that are out there around helping you build
Speaker 1: your mindfulness practice, and then and then even sharing the
Speaker 1: insights that come up for you. It's your therapist could
Speaker 1: be helpful. Like I think therapy without mindfulness is so
Speaker 1: still super awesome and amazing. And now I don't want
Speaker 1: folks leaving their therapists because they want you know, I'm
Speaker 1: just saying, like, if you, if you are at a
Speaker 1: point where you're looking for us to adult therapist, like,
Speaker 1: those are some of the things to look out for,
Speaker 1: and then if they don't have a list of to
Speaker 1: just ask them, hey, like I'm really interested in mindfulness.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna work on this, you know, like outside of therapy,
Speaker 1: like can when we check in about it, like that
Speaker 1: could be another super awesome way to really honor the
Speaker 1: expertise that your therapist does have and get what you
Speaker 1: want for yourself. Right, good point. Good point. So what
Speaker 1: are some of the resources showing her that people can
Speaker 1: check out? You mentioned some apps, So what are some
Speaker 1: things where people can go to find what might work
Speaker 1: for them? Absolutely, I have a few favorite apps. I
Speaker 1: think I shared some and the last call to so
Speaker 1: I'm about to share them again because they're so dope.
Speaker 1: So one that's called headspace. So there's headspace. There's one
Speaker 1: that's literally called calm, and then there's insight timer. Those
Speaker 1: three applications are really awesome. They offer like guided meditations
Speaker 1: or you know, UM that really support you in practicing
Speaker 1: your breathing and being in your body. I created an
Speaker 1: online forms specifically for Black women that are interested in
Speaker 1: mindfulness is called Evolved Sacred Self Work to Heal a Sister,
Speaker 1: and that can be found at um Heal a Sister
Speaker 1: dot com and that there's everything from UM a worksheet
Speaker 1: to being more present and your body guided meditations UM
Speaker 1: and even like belly dancing because belly dancing is also
Speaker 1: a powerful way to practice mindfulness. Nice. Nice. I've actually
Speaker 1: taken belly dancing classes, but they never described it as mindfulness. Well,
Speaker 1: because it's you being present in your body in that moment, right,
Speaker 1: noticing what's happening with your hips, noticing what's happening with
Speaker 1: your breathing. You have to have a really powerful awareness
Speaker 1: to be able to pop your hip like that, Joel.
Speaker 1: And that's what I mean when I say I think
Speaker 1: this is really important to share, like for for us
Speaker 1: as black women, Like it's so important to record guys
Speaker 1: that mindfulness this is a new word, right, This is
Speaker 1: to try to put a lot of the things that
Speaker 1: many of people from all over the world have been
Speaker 1: doing since the beginning of time, right, And so when
Speaker 1: when I'm talking about that mindfulness is ours and it's
Speaker 1: something we have we are, that we should reclaim and
Speaker 1: we should recognize as ours. Is because things like dance, right,
Speaker 1: and the way that we dance, and the way we're
Speaker 1: in our body when we dance, if it's African dance
Speaker 1: or if it's hip hop, like, if we're being in
Speaker 1: our body and we're being present with our body, that
Speaker 1: is that is also mindfulness. Praying and praying and whatever
Speaker 1: way you do it, that is also mindfulness. Communing with
Speaker 1: the earth right, those of us that garden, if you
Speaker 1: are just being with the dirt right like, that is mindfulness.
Speaker 1: There are so many things that are rich to black
Speaker 1: and brown culture that are inherently bringing our awareness and
Speaker 1: attention to one thing. And that is a way of
Speaker 1: practice and mindfulness. So just Chather, it doesn't have the
Speaker 1: title mindfulness on it, don't think it ain't yours book,
Speaker 1: like okay, Like, don't let nobody be like that's just
Speaker 1: for the folks that practice Buddhism or perfect no, like
Speaker 1: it is woven into in all of our traditions. We
Speaker 1: just have to find it. Yeah. So basically you're saying,
Speaker 1: like me, hula who being could also be mindfulness? Listen, Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm saying that is a powerful mindfulness practice. Is you
Speaker 1: being aware of your body in that moment. Now we
Speaker 1: can sort of like increase the vibration or the intention
Speaker 1: of any of the activities that we do in our
Speaker 1: day to day life to create a mindful lifestyle. That is,
Speaker 1: instead of multitasking all the time, doing one thing right,
Speaker 1: like even that game night that you might be having
Speaker 1: with your family, Like, you can make that a mindful
Speaker 1: activity if it's just you and your family, not you
Speaker 1: with your cell phone out, not you you know with
Speaker 1: the television only release supposed to be playing sorry with
Speaker 1: your child, right, being with and noticing what's coming up.
Speaker 1: There's so many things that we can learn from ourselves
Speaker 1: when we practice that good point. The underlying things for
Speaker 1: mindfulness I think are checking out your local classes um
Speaker 1: that really promote wellness, right, so dance classes, yoga, UM,
Speaker 1: like meditation classes. You might find those things, um. Deciding
Speaker 1: to go outside, um, deciding to be more thoughtful about
Speaker 1: the food you put in your body, um, like those
Speaker 1: those things that have may happen in your community and
Speaker 1: opening yourself up to new experiences are I think the
Speaker 1: one of the first hand ways to be able to practice.
Speaker 1: But then when we're talking about bringing it into our
Speaker 1: home and practicing through meditation specifically, those apps are really dope.
Speaker 1: UM checking out is super awesome and amazing therapists that
Speaker 1: practices it is a really good way to hold yourself
Speaker 1: accountable in charting your progress in that space. And then
Speaker 1: of course my evolved platform is dull because it was
Speaker 1: made just for you, though perfect, and of course we
Speaker 1: will have a link to all of that in the
Speaker 1: show notes so people can get it. Well, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining us again to day, shawn I
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. It's
Speaker 1: so great. Thank you. I think this will help people
Speaker 1: get some clarity around what all the mindfulness. And I
Speaker 1: love that you said like, just because we've put this
Speaker 1: new name on it doesn't mean we haven't always been
Speaker 1: doing it. Like yeah, cool. I'm so happy Shawna was
Speaker 1: able to come back and share with us again to
Speaker 1: check out the resources that she shared and to learn
Speaker 1: more about her practice or to hear her first interview
Speaker 1: from the podcast. Visit the show notes at Therapy for
Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash Session seventy eight, and please
Speaker 1: make sure to share your takeaways from the episode on
Speaker 1: i G Stories or on Twitter. Be sure to use
Speaker 1: the hashtag tv G in session so that we can
Speaker 1: find them and share them. If you're looking for a
Speaker 1: therapist in your area, be sure to visit the therapist
Speaker 1: directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory.
Speaker 1: And don't forget to check out our Therapy for Black
Speaker 1: Girls store to grab a T shirt or a mug
Speaker 1: or a hoodie to show your love for the podcast
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash shop. And
Speaker 1: if you want to continue this conversation and join a
Speaker 1: community of other sisters who listen to the podcast, join
Speaker 1: us over in the thrive Tribe, which is the Facebook
Speaker 1: group for our community. You can find that at Therapy
Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com slash Tribe. Make sure you
Speaker 1: answer the three questions that are asked to gain injury.
Speaker 1: Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week,
Speaker 1: and I look forward to continue in this conversation with
Speaker 1: you all real soon. Take it, dear,