Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcasts, where we
Speaker 1: focus on all things mental health, personal development, and all
Speaker 1: the small decisions we can make to become the best
Speaker 1: possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Harden Bradford,
Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To find more information
Speaker 1: and to get resources, visit the website at Therapy for
Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com. And while I hope you love
Speaker 1: listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not
Speaker 1: meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a
Speaker 1: licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, welcome to session three
Speaker 1: of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. Today we have
Speaker 1: our very first on the Couch episode, and if you'll
Speaker 1: remember from the intro, these episodes will feature me in
Speaker 1: conversation with some very special guest therapist to talk about
Speaker 1: what therapy looks like with them. Sometimes we'll have conversations
Speaker 1: about famous black female characters and what it would look
Speaker 1: like to be in therapy with them, and other times
Speaker 1: will just be exploring other issues that women may come
Speaker 1: into therapy for. So today our special guest therapist is
Speaker 1: Miss Chavon Odam. Chavon is the owner of a coma
Speaker 1: counseling concepts in Washington, d C. She is passionate about
Speaker 1: helping to improve the mental health of women and helping
Speaker 1: to promote women's empowerment and mental health awareness. She received
Speaker 1: her bachelor's degree in psychology from the University of Massachusetts,
Speaker 1: Boston and her master's degree in counseling psychology from Howard University.
Speaker 1: Chavon is a licensed professional counselor in d C, a
Speaker 1: National Certified Counselor, and a Certified School Counselor in d C.
Speaker 1: In her practice, she enjoy is providing counseling services to
Speaker 1: women and girls, ages forcing and older. I think you
Speaker 1: really enjoy the conversation I had with Chavonne, So let's
Speaker 1: get started. So, Chevon, thank you so much for joining
Speaker 1: us today. I'm super excited to talk with you. So
Speaker 1: tell us which character you're going to be talking about today.
Speaker 1: I am talking about Mary Jane Paul from the show
Speaker 1: Being Mary Jane on b E T and Um Gabrielle
Speaker 1: Union is the actress that plays Mary Jane Paul. Oh,
Speaker 1: this should be exciting. Yes, yes, yes, Um. I wrote
Speaker 1: a blog about Mary Jane Paul's character about a month ago,
Speaker 1: so this is really exciting to be able to talk about,
Speaker 1: um some of the things that I would want to
Speaker 1: address if I were her therapists. Sounds good. So can
Speaker 1: you give us a little bit more background information for
Speaker 1: people who might not be familiar with the show. Sure? So, uh,
Speaker 1: per b et Gabrielle Union started his marya Jane Paul,
Speaker 1: a wildly successful TV reporter who is searching for love
Speaker 1: in all the wrong places. Um. But UM, now I'm
Speaker 1: going to pick up here with my own perspective. UM,
Speaker 1: I've also Mayor James Paul is also a professional black
Speaker 1: woman who comes from a traditional, well to do Black family.
Speaker 1: She is a late thirty something early forty something that
Speaker 1: is tackling with a lot of issues that may be
Speaker 1: familiar to some black professional woman such as UM, such
Speaker 1: as contemplating when to have kids. Is it okay for
Speaker 1: her to have kids because she still have kids? Um,
Speaker 1: also juggling the role of being the successful, reliable family
Speaker 1: member and still having family drama at home in which
Speaker 1: she's looked at as a responsible family member to come
Speaker 1: and take care of. UM. I'm trying to think what
Speaker 1: else is um? What ult makes her stand apart? Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's also super independent and she owned her own house,
Speaker 1: she owned her own car, She has a jet set
Speaker 1: um to the jet set kind of group of friends.
Speaker 1: And so every episode is about what are the new
Speaker 1: challenges that Mary Jane is facing. Like, on the outside,
Speaker 1: Mary Jane Paul looks like a black, successful black woman
Speaker 1: that has it all together. She looks beautiful, she dresses amazing,
Speaker 1: she gets to work and be around all these super
Speaker 1: attractive men, but her personal life can be chaotic. Chaotic
Speaker 1: is definitely a good word to describe it. Yes, So
Speaker 1: you definitely have given us some great background information. So,
Speaker 1: and you've already kind of alluded to some of the
Speaker 1: answers to this question. But what are some of the
Speaker 1: things that she's struggling with that you think might actually
Speaker 1: they lead her to therapy? M hmmm, Well, some of
Speaker 1: the things I think that she may be struggling with
Speaker 1: the self esteem self esteem issues, but also some grief
Speaker 1: and loss issues. Um, for those listeners may have been
Speaker 1: watching every season of Being Mary Jane, we do know
Speaker 1: that this season she started all over in New York City,
Speaker 1: but in the season prior, she was living and I
Speaker 1: believe Georgia and uh, she had a friend that was
Speaker 1: a medical doctor that unfortunately committed suicide and Mary Jane
Speaker 1: had to be the person to plan this at the
Speaker 1: funeral and speak at the funeral. And it didn't really
Speaker 1: come across to me that Mary Jane, or is the
Speaker 1: family members really sought out therapy to resolve m pretty
Speaker 1: deep rooted, long existing mental health issues. And so pretty
Speaker 1: much as the season continued, and even this season it starts,
Speaker 1: it's like the friend never died and nobody ever mentioned it,
Speaker 1: And so I kind of wonder if she channeling some
Speaker 1: of this unresolved grief into other life task and professional
Speaker 1: tasks to kind of resolve or fill that void. The
Speaker 1: other issues that she also deals with. Two is taking
Speaker 1: care of herself, like she does a great thing of
Speaker 1: doing your hair, your nails, and she did the great style.
Speaker 1: Is she has all that? However, she moved to New
Speaker 1: York not just for a fresh start, but it also
Speaker 1: appears that it's giving her an opportunity to really be
Speaker 1: able to tune into herself and figure out, oh, is
Speaker 1: this a romantic interest that I would really want to date?
Speaker 1: Is this? Um? She's living in a hotel room, something
Speaker 1: that Mary Jane hasn't done, and all the seasons prior,
Speaker 1: she had the perfect house with the positive affirmations and
Speaker 1: the post it notes. But this this season is very
Speaker 1: symbolic because it seems like she's in transition in all
Speaker 1: parts of her life. So I definitely would want to
Speaker 1: address those things with her. What does it mean to
Speaker 1: her to be in transition, to not know what the
Speaker 1: end results of things are going to be, to not
Speaker 1: be in control of the destiny of her destiny, which
Speaker 1: is really what she had been struggling with, And in
Speaker 1: seasons prior, she was in control of everything and now
Speaker 1: she's not. Yeah, I I completely agree with you. I
Speaker 1: was very surprised that they did not start this season
Speaker 1: off with her um in some type of therapy or
Speaker 1: at even addressing her friend that died by suicide, because
Speaker 1: it was such a pivotal moment um in the season. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, for them, And I'm glad you brought
Speaker 1: it up, because you're right, nobody has ever even mentioned
Speaker 1: her again, like they've just pretended almost as if this
Speaker 1: character was not like a huge part of the of
Speaker 1: the show. And I expand on that for a little bit. Absolutely, um,
Speaker 1: And that's the other reason why I chose marriaging because
Speaker 1: I feel that I see similar themes like that in
Speaker 1: my day to day work. It's they I had the funeral,
Speaker 1: the person died, the day of the death, past, the
Speaker 1: funeral past, We're never going to talk about it. We're
Speaker 1: never going to talk about it. We're just gonna keep
Speaker 1: waking up every day in starting these fresh, brand new days,
Speaker 1: totally ignoring what happened um last year, last month, last decade.
Speaker 1: And I do like that some TV shows are definitely
Speaker 1: bringing up mental health issues in the black community. However,
Speaker 1: I do feel that for this wonderful show because Being
Speaker 1: maryor Jane Paul is, I mean, Being Mayor Jane is
Speaker 1: one of my favorite shows. Um. I do feel though
Speaker 1: that while I'm happy that the conversation these shows are
Speaker 1: bringing these conversations out about for discussion, I really do
Speaker 1: wish that they would continue to have these things. Like
Speaker 1: there's that Netflix show Unbreakable Kenney Schmidt, and like there's
Speaker 1: several seasons, there's I mean, there's several shows that seasons.
Speaker 1: There's show, there's several shows where you see her in
Speaker 1: a therapist share and it's kind of the understanding like
Speaker 1: this is continuous, Like therapy is something that you not
Speaker 1: only talk about you actually go and it's more than
Speaker 1: one session, and I really think that like being Mary
Speaker 1: Jane could have really done something with that. Maybe they
Speaker 1: will do them the season. Maybe somebody might listen to
Speaker 1: this interview and be like, you know what, that's your
Speaker 1: next season. Concepts, like every season is going to have
Speaker 1: something with her being in a therapy session, and each
Speaker 1: show is going to be seen that, um, that's gonna
Speaker 1: be centered around the theme are the issues that she
Speaker 1: discussion discusses in her therapy sessions and so I would
Speaker 1: really hope to see that. Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I mean, I definitely think that there is there are
Speaker 1: hosts of issues that could be discussed with Mary Jane.
Speaker 1: And I'm really glad again that you chose her. Um.
Speaker 1: So how often would you say that you see someone
Speaker 1: like her in your practice? So my practice is new.
Speaker 1: I do have some clients, so I actually I see
Speaker 1: those women often. I see those women often not just
Speaker 1: as clients, but I also see them uh um pretty
Speaker 1: much the woman that UM. I socialize and meet a
Speaker 1: lot and a lot of the professional networking events that
Speaker 1: I go to because I'm actually targeting that population. Which
Speaker 1: population are you offering to pretty much the black female
Speaker 1: professional population and living in the dish of Columbia, there's
Speaker 1: a ton. There's a ton of professional black woman with
Speaker 1: dream jobs, dream jobs, wonderful physical parents exterior, but a
Speaker 1: host of m resolved emotional issues. So I see it
Speaker 1: often gats you. So, how would you work with somebody
Speaker 1: like Mary Jane if she were to come in your office?
Speaker 1: Are there any particular strategies or techniques you might use
Speaker 1: to help her with some of her concerns? Sure? So
Speaker 1: can I get all technical with my therapy terminology? Not
Speaker 1: too technical? Okay? So, um, what I would first want
Speaker 1: to do is I'm going to take it way back
Speaker 1: to was just basic grad school, one on one where
Speaker 1: you're learning your initial counseling sessions. That I would really
Speaker 1: try to get some background information on her family and
Speaker 1: so kind of explore the family tree. And the reason
Speaker 1: I mentioned that it is because I forget the name
Speaker 1: of Mary Jane's mom. But um, Mary Jane's mom. She
Speaker 1: every episode, she's just talking about the tradition of everything.
Speaker 1: How being in these exclusive clubs, these exclusive organizations, living
Speaker 1: in the exclusive neighborhoods, it's all part of a tradition
Speaker 1: of things that have to be done, and this is
Speaker 1: what this means to our family. So a kind of
Speaker 1: what started off with information about the family um, getting
Speaker 1: information about the family history to kind of see if
Speaker 1: there are any themes, anythings that are showing up between
Speaker 1: generations that may be of importance to Mary Jane. So
Speaker 1: that's how it started out. And then I would also
Speaker 1: compliment her on her self care, because Mary Jane is
Speaker 1: on point with some of the self care. I mean,
Speaker 1: she's already doing some therapeutic stuff, which does another thing
Speaker 1: that she did start and she stopped. She had the
Speaker 1: positive affirmation, she had the post it, And so I
Speaker 1: would also start off my sessions. I think you did
Speaker 1: some really great work with that. And how are you
Speaker 1: doing with posting and I mean finding and posting your
Speaker 1: positive affirmations and your post it? And why did you
Speaker 1: stop doing that? Yeah? And what what would you make
Speaker 1: of that? The fact that we haven't seen that so
Speaker 1: much this season, that that you know, part of her
Speaker 1: self care that did seem pretty integirl is missing. What
Speaker 1: what do you make of that? Do you really want
Speaker 1: to know that? So? Um, what I would say is
Speaker 1: that I really truly feel that Mary Jane has kind
Speaker 1: of last focus on her. Mary Jane has done what
Speaker 1: many women have done, which is, hey, I have my
Speaker 1: checklist of how my life is supposed to be and
Speaker 1: these things need to happen. And in that checklist is
Speaker 1: a husband or a same sex partner, and children and wants.
Speaker 1: Some women meet somebody that may resemble um, that may
Speaker 1: resemble that person that may help them accomplish that goal.
Speaker 1: All the other self care actions are kind of put
Speaker 1: on hold or out the window and kind of until
Speaker 1: they're in crises. And I and I say that because
Speaker 1: I kind of look at some therapy cise their behaviors
Speaker 1: in their approach to therapy sometimes similar to their approach
Speaker 1: to prayer, and that it's all good, like a lot
Speaker 1: of times when everything good we forget, we forget that, Okay,
Speaker 1: if you're with this person, so okay to pray, so
Speaker 1: it's out like everything's going good. You don't need to
Speaker 1: do these costs of affirmations. I don't need to look
Speaker 1: at these posts totally forgetting about it because I'm in
Speaker 1: this really good relationship or really feeling this really good
Speaker 1: person and I don't need to do any of that.
Speaker 1: But then when things start going wrong. Oh yeah, let's
Speaker 1: bring out the post it. Let's bring out the prayer
Speaker 1: because if we really need the posts in the prayer
Speaker 1: right now. So I think that might be the reason
Speaker 1: why she stopped with the post it's new affirmations, but
Speaker 1: I really want them to bring them back. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: definitely is a very interesting perspective. I would agree with
Speaker 1: you there. So what kinds of things might you use
Speaker 1: to help her with some of the relationship stuff because
Speaker 1: that does seem to be a central issue for her.
Speaker 1: So I'm a licensed professional counselor, and one of the
Speaker 1: primary therapy techniques that counselors use are it's called cognitive
Speaker 1: behavioral therapy or CBT for short. And one of the
Speaker 1: CBT techniques I would use would might be help with
Speaker 1: her to challenge her thoughts uh and pretty much asking her, Okay,
Speaker 1: why do you think that you should be dating this man?
Speaker 1: And what does it mean for you to be dating
Speaker 1: this man? And how does a reflection of you dating
Speaker 1: this person? Because I noticed a lot of her actions
Speaker 1: relationship wise, she she internalizes them as reflections of her
Speaker 1: even to the point was one episode they were seem
Speaker 1: like she was addicted, she was addicted to dating men
Speaker 1: that were not good to her. So, as we all know,
Speaker 1: we're familiar with addictions. Who maybe it's familiar with addiction.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like the high that people get, And
Speaker 1: so with her, I would kind of explore what is
Speaker 1: the high that you're getting when you're seeking out these
Speaker 1: relationships and you're staying in these relationships, but somehow you're
Speaker 1: not able to get somewhere else in your life? Very
Speaker 1: good points, very good points. Are there other things that
Speaker 1: you feel like you would work with her on You
Speaker 1: mentioned some of the unresolved grief related to the death
Speaker 1: of her friends. Yes, yes, so, Dr Joy, I thought
Speaker 1: long and hard about this because I'm really excited about
Speaker 1: this opportunity and the day so it's down because I
Speaker 1: had so many different techniques. So one of the things
Speaker 1: that I would do to kind of address the grief
Speaker 1: and it's just gonna this might sound confusing for um
Speaker 1: the listeners, is that I would have her write a letter.
Speaker 1: I would have to write a letter to herself. Now
Speaker 1: I would have to write a letter to her friend
Speaker 1: that passed away, and I would invite her to say
Speaker 1: to to pretty much, you don't have to share this
Speaker 1: letter with me and therapy, but you're more open to
Speaker 1: go ahead and do it. And a lot of times
Speaker 1: when I've invited clients to write letters to themselves eight
Speaker 1: times at a tend, they're bringing them to sessions. I
Speaker 1: want to read it like I want to read it,
Speaker 1: and they want to share, and we would really process
Speaker 1: those things. Um, those those topics that were addressing the letter.
Speaker 1: And for those that may not be familiar with Mary
Speaker 1: Jane Paul, what led up to her friend committing suicide
Speaker 1: was the fact that Mary Jane was in love with
Speaker 1: this man that she had been dating on and off
Speaker 1: for years. And what she didn't know was that her
Speaker 1: best friend had fallen in love with the same man,
Speaker 1: and so this friend had developed somewhat sexual relationship with
Speaker 1: this man, and both the friend and the man kept
Speaker 1: this a secret. This was happening for years, and somehow
Speaker 1: I forgot how Mary Jane found out about it. But
Speaker 1: Mary Jane found out about it, Okay, okay, yes, and
Speaker 1: so thank you. And so this brought Mary Jane into
Speaker 1: this downward spiral, you know, Oh my gosh, thinks we're
Speaker 1: just getting out of control. And then she has this
Speaker 1: car accident which compromises her physical appearance for a while.
Speaker 1: But while Mary Jane is going through this physical healing
Speaker 1: process that was targeted by this butt dialing, the friend
Speaker 1: is feeling intense shame, intense shame. And what's only what's
Speaker 1: also layering into this intense shame is that this friend
Speaker 1: also has unresolved sexual trauma. She was actually abused by
Speaker 1: her mother's her mother's husband, her stepfather, which Mary Jane
Speaker 1: was very knowledgeable about. And so again I'm looping it
Speaker 1: back into this friend attempts to reach out to Mary
Speaker 1: Jane several times. It doesn't go the way that the
Speaker 1: friend desires it to go. They're both severely emotional scarred
Speaker 1: from this, and so the friend ends up committing suicide.
Speaker 1: And I think with that, Mary Jane, that's down there. No,
Speaker 1: it was a man, it was the people. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the mutual love interests finds her. So if you individuals
Speaker 1: that are listening haven't watched this show, if you can't
Speaker 1: tell that this show wasn't juicy by now, so, so
Speaker 1: it takes all these different terms and what is even
Speaker 1: more like, oh my gosh, are you kidding me? This
Speaker 1: the same best friend's mother and the perpetrator of this
Speaker 1: right of the rape and abuse comes and they're all like, hey,
Speaker 1: Mary Jane, we want you to play in the funeral.
Speaker 1: So um I mentioned this to say that I would
Speaker 1: love to hear what may have been some things, some
Speaker 1: unresolved issues that Mary Jane might bring up in this
Speaker 1: letter to her deceased. And I wonder if Mary Jane,
Speaker 1: when her friend was alive, trying to get her attention
Speaker 1: to say we need to make this work, I'm really sorry,
Speaker 1: and all this other stuff. I wonder now in hindsight,
Speaker 1: after the fact that her friend has committed suicide, I
Speaker 1: wonder if Mary Jane feels from guilt. I wonder if
Speaker 1: she feels from guilt towards her friends committing suicide because
Speaker 1: the friend did say, you know, it's always been about you,
Speaker 1: Mary Jane, It's always been about you. And again, another
Speaker 1: professional black woman that people in the upside might say, well,
Speaker 1: what is she yelling at Mary Jane More, She's a
Speaker 1: medical doctor, she had her own house. Why is she
Speaker 1: going for this borrowed man, and why does she look
Speaker 1: at herself like that? Because her friend was just beautiful.
Speaker 1: So Um, I would definitely do the letter writing exercise
Speaker 1: for the Greek but to flip it um. There is
Speaker 1: this um, there's this therapist or therapy pioneer. This name
Speaker 1: was Alfred Adler, and he created something called at Larian therapy.
Speaker 1: And so the modality that I would want to use,
Speaker 1: the technique that I want to use. This Okay, we've
Speaker 1: written letters to ourselves, we've written letters to our deceased friend.
Speaker 1: Now I would like for you to do a future autobiography.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure the person would be like, what, you
Speaker 1: want me to write a future autobiography about my life
Speaker 1: that I haven't lived yet. Yes, I want you to
Speaker 1: write a story for how you would picture the rest
Speaker 1: of your life going or what you would want for
Speaker 1: the rest of your life. And what I'm looking for
Speaker 1: from this technique is that, hopefully this will bring to
Speaker 1: attention what are Mary Jane's self ideal and what does
Speaker 1: she feel responsible in the shaping of her personality, in
Speaker 1: the shaping of her self esteem, in the shaping of
Speaker 1: her relationship choices, and then in the shaping up her
Speaker 1: feeling responsible for how her failu are making all these
Speaker 1: destructive choices. But you didn't feel responsible for your friend
Speaker 1: that was constantly crying out for help. So um, That's
Speaker 1: why I would do the future autobiography. That definitely sounds
Speaker 1: like an interesting activity and I could see, you know,
Speaker 1: something that the listeners might want to think about it
Speaker 1: as well, you know, like who do you see yourself
Speaker 1: as in the future, and how might what you're doing
Speaker 1: now match up with who you want to be in
Speaker 1: the future. Mm hmm, yeah, go ahead, No, because I
Speaker 1: hear that a lot from therapy lines. My female therapy
Speaker 1: clins of color, regardless of socio economic status, academic status,
Speaker 1: and I wish all women would know this. We're all
Speaker 1: the same in that way. I hear this every week.
Speaker 1: I'm not where I'm supposed to be, and I always
Speaker 1: like to say, well, yeah, are you're supposed to be?
Speaker 1: You know, what do you think you're supposed to be?
Speaker 1: So something that you didn't mention, But I think um
Speaker 1: is a central theme with Mary Jane, and maybe you
Speaker 1: can shed some light on this for us. I see
Speaker 1: her engaging in a lot of self sabotaging behaviors. Um,
Speaker 1: would you agree with that? Mm hmmmm. So can you
Speaker 1: talk more about definitely would man love Dr Joey? We
Speaker 1: could spend the whole episode, I mean, and then um,
Speaker 1: she definitely does some self sabotaging. Um. I didn't use
Speaker 1: the terminology, but I believe I briefly touched on it
Speaker 1: without even thinking about it being self sabotaging by saying,
Speaker 1: but they had an episode where somebody had brought your attention.
Speaker 1: You're addicted. You're addicted to pursuing these men who really
Speaker 1: aren't good matches for you, and like you already make
Speaker 1: a bad situation worse by constantly texting them, calling them,
Speaker 1: seeking them out, even if you know these people are
Speaker 1: not good for you. Uh. She also too there was
Speaker 1: a get together that she had at her house it
Speaker 1: wasn't a friend's house. Always loved this episode, and I
Speaker 1: also felt like it was a self sabotage episode as
Speaker 1: well because in this episode, the different professional woman are
Speaker 1: talking about, hey, this is where I am professionally and girl,
Speaker 1: I'm giving you Kudo's good job of lab but my
Speaker 1: personal romantic life sucks. And one friend opens up because
Speaker 1: they're like girl who got her all together? One friend
Speaker 1: opens up and says, I purchased my own engagement ring
Speaker 1: because I didn't like the ring that was given to me.
Speaker 1: Do you remember this episode? Yes? And one thing leads
Speaker 1: to the other and before you know it, Mary Jane
Speaker 1: is just disrespect and all the women again. Like you know,
Speaker 1: she's telling the woman that purchased her own engagement ring
Speaker 1: that she's got self esteemed problems. She's going in on
Speaker 1: the friend as a doctor. It was just that. It
Speaker 1: was just that. So I feel like she has diarrhea
Speaker 1: of the mouth sometimes and she doesn't feel she doesn't
Speaker 1: feel remorseful about things until she says it, like she
Speaker 1: in her mind it looks good, it feels good. It's
Speaker 1: kind of like that X or that person that you dated,
Speaker 1: and you in your mind you're like, this text sounds awesome,
Speaker 1: and then so as you send it, you like where's
Speaker 1: the unsend feature? And so yeah, and so I see
Speaker 1: that happened with her often, and and there's so many
Speaker 1: different ways that I go with that, Like I kind
Speaker 1: of wonder, like, Okay, well, Mary, Mary Jane, you seem
Speaker 1: very confident as this news anchor. You choose these very
Speaker 1: bold and daring topics that are amazing. You feel confident
Speaker 1: in that, But why don't you feel confident in yourself?
Speaker 1: And what is the motivation behind that? So I kind
Speaker 1: of feel like that's why she self sabotages because she's
Speaker 1: really not that confident in herself and her mother is
Speaker 1: always picking on something she's not doing, you know, so
Speaker 1: that also further feeds into the self doubt, which leads
Speaker 1: to her being in situations where she may be doing
Speaker 1: things without thinking and putting her flat mouth. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I think what was an interesting term? So have you
Speaker 1: finished the most current season? No? I mean episodes? Okay,
Speaker 1: so we won't go there, and we won't go there then. Um, so,
Speaker 1: but where I left off? Where I left off, you
Speaker 1: can know where I left off. She met Lee's ex wife,
Speaker 1: and she met Lee's kids, and so she felt into
Speaker 1: care about Lee's acts until she found out, Oh, Lee's
Speaker 1: ex wife doesn't want Lee. So that's the last episode
Speaker 1: I left off at. Yep, got you? Okay, so we'll
Speaker 1: move on then, So we don't have any spoilers. So
Speaker 1: what so, what are some tips for our listeners who
Speaker 1: may be struggling with things that are similar so similar
Speaker 1: of challenges and concerns. What kinds of tips would you
Speaker 1: have for the listeners to kind of maybe get some
Speaker 1: of this on track in their own lives. Um, the
Speaker 1: tips that I would have is, um, if you haven't
Speaker 1: gone to therapy. O, UM, is it okay if I
Speaker 1: do so a little bit of some self disclosure here
Speaker 1: or no? Absolutely absolutely so, UM, I'm myself a single
Speaker 1: professional black woman and I I definitely there are things
Speaker 1: that I find in come with Mary Jane, like the
Speaker 1: wanting to have the family and great relationship partner. But
Speaker 1: one of the things that, like how I address it
Speaker 1: was Okay, you know what, I want to understand what's
Speaker 1: my motivation behind? Why am I finding myself myself in
Speaker 1: similar places and spaces? So I would encourage a woman
Speaker 1: who haven't gone to therapy to go or if they
Speaker 1: are going to therapy, if you haven't had a chance
Speaker 1: to bring that up with your therapist. Are us that?
Speaker 1: Because um there is a quote that UM I had
Speaker 1: on my Instagram and it's pretty much like certain themes
Speaker 1: will keep coming back in your life over and over
Speaker 1: and over again until you finally have learned the lesson
Speaker 1: that it's trying to teach you. And so I kind
Speaker 1: of feel like sometimes it's kind of hard to step
Speaker 1: outside of ourselves to do that if we don't have
Speaker 1: um if if we don't have the support to do that,
Speaker 1: the other thing is too is. I would also that's
Speaker 1: another thing too that I didn't touch on it that
Speaker 1: how I would also look at how are you handling stress?
Speaker 1: I've seen therapy for the coming is totally admitted to me,
Speaker 1: like listen, I don't like being by myself or I
Speaker 1: don't like when I'm in situations that don't work out
Speaker 1: in my favor, and I'll deal with it like going
Speaker 1: out and having sex with random people. And so again,
Speaker 1: I would kind of I would really really want to explore,
Speaker 1: like okay, um or I I empowered this person to
Speaker 1: kind of feel like, well, what is it that really
Speaker 1: makes you happy? And while I'm talking to I'm trying
Speaker 1: to find the quote, I want to say it exactly. Um.
Speaker 1: The other thing that I would also empower women to
Speaker 1: do is um, if you can find a new hobby,
Speaker 1: like find a new hobby, makes a new friend. Um.
Speaker 1: Me personally, I have different sets of friends, different groups
Speaker 1: of friends, And there was one group of friends that
Speaker 1: I really realized a couple of years ago, like I
Speaker 1: need to kind of kind of step away for a
Speaker 1: little bit because I noticed that, uh, this group of
Speaker 1: friends was really really fixated on being in relationships and
Speaker 1: there was like really singles. So if you have friends
Speaker 1: that are turning every social activity into hey did you
Speaker 1: see a cute somebody here? Though, oh well, tonight was
Speaker 1: not a good night. Those aren't friends you should be
Speaker 1: hanging out with all the time, you know, because if
Speaker 1: that's an issue that you're constantly hung up on, which
Speaker 1: is Mary Jay and she she has a lot of
Speaker 1: relationship issues. UM. Sometimes it's good to have friends that
Speaker 1: are supportive of you, that can be UM, but that
Speaker 1: can also help you to be able to engage in
Speaker 1: other activities that that can bring out the best you.
Speaker 1: So it's like, you have a hobby that you'd like
Speaker 1: to do, maybe you can find a friend group to
Speaker 1: do those hobbies with. Or if you have a class
Speaker 1: that you've wanted to participate in a skill in which
Speaker 1: you're not an expert in, try those things out and
Speaker 1: maybe make some new friends doing that. Because if you
Speaker 1: have friends around you that are constantly talking about these
Speaker 1: things that are provoking anxiety in you, it's just gonna
Speaker 1: maybe it's just gonna exascerbate it. But the other thing
Speaker 1: that I would also empower women to do is um
Speaker 1: that are in similar situations. I saw this show on
Speaker 1: f y I called merried at First Sight are to
Speaker 1: join you from them with what I'm talking about. And
Speaker 1: so there was this character what is her name? She
Speaker 1: was a black woman with the short Janette Yes the
Speaker 1: first season and so Janet and her husband unfortunately their
Speaker 1: their marriage didn't work out, but they gave her a
Speaker 1: spinoff show and one of the things she had similar
Speaker 1: themes with Mary Jane, and basically the theme that kept
Speaker 1: coming up with that a lot of her behavior seeking
Speaker 1: out relationship partners was because her biological clock was dictating
Speaker 1: whom she was picking. And so she was encouraged because
Speaker 1: they are one of the things I like about f
Speaker 1: Y I they have like a sociologist, it's like collegist
Speaker 1: and um, some type of spiritual leader. And so they
Speaker 1: encouraged her. Oh yeah, they have a sexologist too. They
Speaker 1: encouraged her, you might want to go to a fertility
Speaker 1: specialists see what's going on for you and no matter
Speaker 1: what the picture is, to see what you can do
Speaker 1: in terms of preserving your fertility or preserving eggs if
Speaker 1: that's something to feel comfortable with. And so um they
Speaker 1: helped her. They coached her to go and talk to
Speaker 1: her friends about it and of course, you know some
Speaker 1: some sister friends girls, you need to pray about that,
Speaker 1: you're crazy. Some sister friends was like, I support you.
Speaker 1: I totally support you. And at the end of the
Speaker 1: day she thought about it and she said, this will
Speaker 1: make me feel happy and how peace of mind, And
Speaker 1: she went ahead and she decided to go do the
Speaker 1: egg freezing. So I would also empower other women to
Speaker 1: do that. Like if if you are thinking that your
Speaker 1: biological clock is what's motivating you to go and pick
Speaker 1: the wrong men, go talk to fertility specialists about it
Speaker 1: and see what's going on with your body because a
Speaker 1: lot of times we're scared about things that we don't
Speaker 1: even need to be scared of out um. And so
Speaker 1: another thing too, which is really lacking, but I see
Speaker 1: that dr joy you have, which I think is awesome,
Speaker 1: is um why does support group? Why does support group
Speaker 1: that is geared towards helping woman tap into their inner
Speaker 1: beautiful self and really coming up with a plan like
Speaker 1: exploring those themes to be coming up coming up with
Speaker 1: a plan to empower ourselves. So this empowered woman. Empower
Speaker 1: Woman's my favorite quote, but the quote that i UM
Speaker 1: was referencing, it's by pima chodron and it's nothing ever
Speaker 1: goes away until it teaches us what we need to know.
Speaker 1: So I say that quote because if any woman that
Speaker 1: may find themselves being like Mary Jane feeling they're constantly
Speaker 1: chasing their tail over and over and over again, like
Speaker 1: I keep ending up in a similar situation, similar outcomes,
Speaker 1: ask yourself, like what role am I having to play
Speaker 1: in this? And don't be scared to go out and
Speaker 1: reach an expert because a licensed mental health therapist we
Speaker 1: are we're supposed to be non biased. We're supposed to
Speaker 1: be a blank slaighte late and we're different than religious
Speaker 1: leaders or life coaches and that we actually do have
Speaker 1: an ethics board, a licenship board that dictates how we're
Speaker 1: supposed to behave. But we also came to like girls,
Speaker 1: oh no, you're still bid for doing that. You know
Speaker 1: I do that to you too. We can't do that.
Speaker 1: Friends will do that to you, maybe your family will
Speaker 1: do that to you. Maybe, But our license is professional
Speaker 1: LIS's health professionals. That's not what we do, and we
Speaker 1: will help you to be direct. Your focus is your
Speaker 1: thoughts and your energy back on yourself and yeah, other
Speaker 1: things too, which I would love to see Mary Jane do.
Speaker 1: Dr Joy stopped me. But um, one of the things
Speaker 1: that I would love to see Mary Jane do is
Speaker 1: treat herself to something I haven't seen Mary Jane take
Speaker 1: a vacation in any of the season. Is everything that
Speaker 1: she does is always connected to somebody. It's like, when
Speaker 1: did she do something by herself? But the only thing
Speaker 1: you see her do by herself is drink wine seriously.
Speaker 1: And so one of the things that I would advise
Speaker 1: listeners that can see themselves similar to Mary Jane is
Speaker 1: ask yourself, when if the last time you've done something
Speaker 1: spiritually riching for yourself. And spiritually and riching doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be all going to church I'm praying. It could
Speaker 1: be your meditating. It can be I'm treating myself to
Speaker 1: a retreat excuse me in a whole other state. Or
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna take myself to a random trip to
Speaker 1: a bed and breakfast. It might be two hours away,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to disconnect from social media and really
Speaker 1: engage in really good self care. And so that's one
Speaker 1: thing that I would Also another thing that I would
Speaker 1: encourage other women to do because sometimes and I think
Speaker 1: Mary Jane does this. Sometimes we seek out experiences through
Speaker 1: relationships that we can already provide to ourselves. And so,
Speaker 1: you know, we already have awesome personalities because after Joy,
Speaker 1: I believe that all of us women are just awesome people,
Speaker 1: and we're already magnificent. We're pretty magnificent the way that
Speaker 1: we are in um. Sometimes we chase we we chase
Speaker 1: a feeling, we chase an experience, kind of like when
Speaker 1: people chase a high. But we've already got that greatness
Speaker 1: right here that we can create within ourselves. And so
Speaker 1: sometimes I've had some friends tell me, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: you should want you went. You took yourself out to dinner.
Speaker 1: Yeah why because I was hungry, you know. Or you
Speaker 1: took yourself to the movies by yourself, Yeah why. I
Speaker 1: would never do that because I really wanted to see
Speaker 1: this movie. Because so I did it to wait for
Speaker 1: those things. And so I hear sometimes with some woman
Speaker 1: they believe a certain experiences are only reserved for partnership,
Speaker 1: and so they put a lot of things on hold
Speaker 1: that they could really do to reward themselves because they're
Speaker 1: waiting for someone else to get from that experience. Challenge
Speaker 1: yourself to do different things by yourself. Yeah, those are
Speaker 1: absolutely great point, Savine. You definitely hit on a lot
Speaker 1: of the highlights. And I'm glad you mentioned the idea
Speaker 1: of a group therapy because I think someone like Mary
Speaker 1: Jane really could benefit from group because I think she
Speaker 1: also has a lot of yes men in her life,
Speaker 1: and I think a group would really help her to
Speaker 1: get some perspective from outsiders who may be able to
Speaker 1: kind of call her on some of her stuff that
Speaker 1: she also brings to these other relationships that make them unhealthy. Yes, ma'am,
Speaker 1: she does. And you also notice and I I might
Speaker 1: sound like Sadre from Real Households Atlanta, but everybody knows
Speaker 1: that she always took that. Everybody knows Um. Everybody knows
Speaker 1: that we love our parents no matter what our relationship
Speaker 1: may be, healthy, dysfunctional, whatnot. We there are some things
Speaker 1: that we may keep from our parents. And I do
Speaker 1: believe that it definitely goes into that yes man mentality
Speaker 1: because she does keep things from her mom, because when
Speaker 1: she brings the truth to her mother who her mother's
Speaker 1: her mother, her mother serves at brutal honesty. Like I've
Speaker 1: watched episodes, it doesn't that I could like episodes I
Speaker 1: haven't even been able to relate to and Mary Jade
Speaker 1: mom and they had me ship at home in the
Speaker 1: couch and signs with my own self like wow, I
Speaker 1: felt bred, you know. So yeah, I definitely agree that
Speaker 1: there are a lot of yes men and and that
Speaker 1: can be difficult to I would also empower women to
Speaker 1: do that if you find that you are feeling uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: I'm happy with the way things are going within your
Speaker 1: person gonna life, but yet you're seeing most of the
Speaker 1: people around you saying, well, girl, you're good, girl, You're fine,
Speaker 1: blah blah. You're seeing You're seeing that there's an inconsistency
Speaker 1: challenge that why is that? So? I would say that,
Speaker 1: great point, Chavonne. So are there any resources that you
Speaker 1: would suggest for our listeners? Any blogs or books or workshops.
Speaker 1: Are things that you have seen or heard or suggested
Speaker 1: to other clients, um, that you think would be helpful
Speaker 1: for working on some of these issues, Yes, ma'am, um,
Speaker 1: so one I would There's there's a book that I
Speaker 1: quote all the time. Um. It's called Uninvited by Lisa Trker's.
Speaker 1: I learned about it from some other therapists it's great.
Speaker 1: It's called what to Do when you feel uninvited, alone
Speaker 1: and lonely and oh my goodness. Like, ladies, if you've
Speaker 1: ever had a friendship that's dissolved or relationship um that
Speaker 1: has dissolved, you feel totally guilty about it, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: this book will help you kind of get some closure
Speaker 1: on that. And also it will really help you feel empowered, like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I really am a great person. And
Speaker 1: you know what, like maybe the things that I thought
Speaker 1: were issues with me aren't issues with me, and I
Speaker 1: maybe I do need to have confidence, confidence to know
Speaker 1: that I am worthy of great things. Great things will
Speaker 1: happen to me, and I need to act in ways
Speaker 1: in which are in line with my greatness. So that's
Speaker 1: a book that I definitely suggest. The other thing too,
Speaker 1: just a little self blog plug. Definitely follow me and
Speaker 1: my blog. My blog is different than my UH therapy
Speaker 1: social media because it's much more of my personal experiences
Speaker 1: of what I'm going through as a professional black woman,
Speaker 1: whether it be work stressors or life stressors, dating stressors.
Speaker 1: I post blogs about it. So sometimes reading about other
Speaker 1: woman's experiences that are similar can be very therapeutic. UH
Speaker 1: sometimes hearing about other woman's experiences can be very therapeutic.
Speaker 1: If there's a local woman's group that is in line
Speaker 1: with your ideals or anything like that that you feel
Speaker 1: might help you tap into be in your inner Chaka Khan.
Speaker 1: I'm every woman. I would empower to do that. So
Speaker 1: I do feel like I'm missing a resource, but definitely
Speaker 1: the least it's her curse book. It's Oh my gosh, Uninvited.
Speaker 1: It's just amazing. Yeah, that sounds like a great book,
Speaker 1: and I've never heard of that one, so you definitely, um,
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about trying to remember this. It
Speaker 1: will all be included in the show notes so that
Speaker 1: you can remember to pick up this book. And what
Speaker 1: was the name of your Black Chavant shop? Von blog
Speaker 1: so s h I v as victory O N n
Speaker 1: E is an echo blog dot WordPress dot com. Perfect
Speaker 1: And where can we find out more about like your
Speaker 1: practice and your social media handles across the platforms awesome?
Speaker 1: So um you can find out about me. My website
Speaker 1: is www dot a coma counseling concepts dot com, a
Speaker 1: k O Mson mary a Counseling concepts dot com and
Speaker 1: you can find me on Instagram, and I am at
Speaker 1: a COMA Underscore Counseling c O U N S E
Speaker 1: l I n G. And I am on Twitter at
Speaker 1: d C M d C Therapist at A COMA Counseling
Speaker 1: O COMA Counseling all one word, and I must on
Speaker 1: Facebook a coma A Counseling concepts Yeah, comacoulum concepts. So
Speaker 1: I'm everywhere there's you can definitely find me in a
Speaker 1: lot of places. And I also have periodic live chats
Speaker 1: on Instagram Live and pretty much it's an opportunity for
Speaker 1: individuals to come our tune in online and you can
Speaker 1: be anonymous and just ask me questions pertaining to mental health,
Speaker 1: pertaining to stigma, pertaining to rejections. Feel free to ask
Speaker 1: me those questions or what it's like to help a
Speaker 1: friend go along. UM. The other thing is too is
Speaker 1: I'm also going to be hosting a series of both
Speaker 1: free and paid events for May Mental Health Awareness Month
Speaker 1: in ma Distry to Columbia to stay tuned for those,
Speaker 1: and it's going to be focused on UM, black women's
Speaker 1: mental health awareness and really getting that conversation going perfect.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing those Chavon and for
Speaker 1: sharing all of your excellent information this afternoon. I think
Speaker 1: it will definitely be really helpful to our listeners. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Oh and by the way, I did do a blog
Speaker 1: piece about being Mary Jane a month or two ago,
Speaker 1: so if you go and visit my blog chavon Blogs,
Speaker 1: you will find that blog piece on my blog. As
Speaker 1: you can see, Shavan and I had a very lively
Speaker 1: conversation about some of the issues that Mary Jane is
Speaker 1: struggling with, as well as some of the issues she
Speaker 1: sees in the patients in her practice. All of the
Speaker 1: resources that she mentioned are included in the show notes.
Speaker 1: You can find those at Therapy for Black Girls dot
Speaker 1: com slash Session three. And let's keep the conversation going
Speaker 1: over on social media. Let us know your thoughts about
Speaker 1: the session anything else you think we need to talk
Speaker 1: about related to Barry Jane. Use the hashtag TBG in session.
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at Therapy for the
Speaker 1: Number four be Girls, and you can find us on
Speaker 1: Instagram and Facebook at Therapy for Black Girls. And if
Speaker 1: you like what you're hearing so far, make sure to
Speaker 1: leave us a review on iTunes. And if you have
Speaker 1: other thoughts or questions, that you'd like to see answered
Speaker 1: on the podcast. Please send us an email at podcast
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. Looking forward to
Speaker 1: talking with you again real soon. Take get care, HM
Speaker 1: party