Speaker 1: Pushkin. This is Talk Easy. I'm Sam Fergo Soo. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the show today. I'm joined by the founder of
Speaker 1: Well Read Black Girl, Glory Dam. For the uninitiated, Well
Speaker 1: Read Black Girl is a Brooklyn based book club and
Speaker 1: online community that champions the work of black authors. It
Speaker 1: was founded in twenty fifteen. In twenty seventeen, Glorie launched
Speaker 1: a literary festival featuring appearances from Gabrielle Union to Michelle Obama.
Speaker 1: Then in twenty eighteen came her first anthology, Well Read
Speaker 1: Black Girl, Finding Our Stories Discovering Ourselves, which was published
Speaker 1: by Random House. At each turn, Glory has found a
Speaker 1: way to expand the vision and reach of Well Read
Speaker 1: Black Girl. Now, after years of hosting conversations at their
Speaker 1: festival and on their Instagram page, Glory has launched a
Speaker 1: new podcast called Well Read Black Girl with Glory Adam.
Speaker 1: Each week, Glory aims to bring readers and writers together
Speaker 1: by sitting with some of the best authors we have today.
Speaker 1: Her first three episodes are with Minjin Lee, Toronto Burke,
Speaker 1: and Anita Hill. If you'd like to take a listen,
Speaker 1: you can find Well Read Black Girl with Glory Adam
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcast or wherever you do
Speaker 1: your podcasting. Now in the conversation you're about to hear,
Speaker 1: I wanted to sit with Glory to unpack the mission
Speaker 1: statement of her new show, the enduring influence of her parents,
Speaker 1: both of whom survived Nigeria's Biafra War, and the timeliness
Speaker 1: of the work she's doing today, especially in the wake
Speaker 1: of book banning inside classrooms and the polarizing conversations around
Speaker 1: critical race theory. Speaking of We'll be having a larger
Speaker 1: conversation about erasure, whiteness, and black history with doctor James
Speaker 1: Whitfield this coming Sunday, the twentieth. Whitfield was a principal
Speaker 1: at a Texas high school, actually the first black principle
Speaker 1: in the school's history, who was then fired after being
Speaker 1: accused of implementing critical race theory into the school's curriculum.
Speaker 1: To be clear, he did not add CRT to the classrooms,
Speaker 1: but that didn't stop him from being terminated. We'll hear
Speaker 1: his story this Sunday on Talk Easy. I hope you
Speaker 1: join us for that. For today, here is our conversation
Speaker 1: with well read Black Girl founder Glory, and I hope
Speaker 1: you enjoy. Gloria Adam, thank you for being here, Thank
Speaker 1: you for having me. We have never met before. We're
Speaker 1: doing this over a zoom like recording. I've been told
Speaker 1: that you wake up every day between seven thirty and
Speaker 1: eight am, and when you wake up, you begin journaling
Speaker 1: a little bit, writing out your notes for the day.
Speaker 1: I wanted to start here what happened in the journal
Speaker 1: this morning? Ah, that's such a good question. So I've
Speaker 1: been really meditating on the word forgiveness, and I've been
Speaker 1: trying to just like really think about how I could
Speaker 1: forgive myself, like past mistakes or choices I made that
Speaker 1: might not have been the right choice at the time,
Speaker 1: writing what forgiveness looks like, and how I can just
Speaker 1: be more self compassionate because in my mind, I can
Speaker 1: be like really critical a perfectionist at times, and I'm
Speaker 1: trying my hardest to move away from that kind of thinking,
Speaker 1: Just like, how am I forgiving myself? And how am
Speaker 1: I being present? Because you know, when you're thinking about
Speaker 1: something that happened like two days ago or two years ago,
Speaker 1: it doesn't allow you to celebrate like what's currently happening
Speaker 1: in your life. And I have so many good things happening.
Speaker 1: You know, that was what my journaling session was this morning.
Speaker 1: We're going to get back to what you need to
Speaker 1: forgive yourself for. But something good that's happening right now
Speaker 1: is this new program on Pushkin called Well Read Black
Speaker 1: Girl Mcgloria Adam. You called the podcast the literary kickback
Speaker 1: you never knew you needed. So for those who haven't
Speaker 1: listened yet, what is this show and why do we
Speaker 1: need it now? I would like to think of this
Speaker 1: show as another way of like coming home to yourself
Speaker 1: and visiting all the amazing authors that maybe you've read
Speaker 1: in the past, or maybe you haven't even encountered before.
Speaker 1: But it's just a celebration of their work and sitting
Speaker 1: with their journey into becoming writers. They are Well Read
Speaker 1: Black Girl book Club alumni, so they have really intimate
Speaker 1: relationships with the community already. So once we get into conversation,
Speaker 1: it's just like on and pop it like we are
Speaker 1: talking and exchanging stories and really being vulnerable with one another.
Speaker 1: And that's like the part of the kick back. Because
Speaker 1: it's a girl, I'll fly on the wall like wow,
Speaker 1: like what are they talking about? And who are these
Speaker 1: people that are on the show. It does seem like
Speaker 1: one of the reasons you've made this show is that
Speaker 1: black women, as you write, define ourselves. We're not looking
Speaker 1: for anyone else to give us validation because we have
Speaker 1: one another, We celebrate one another. We have a tenacity
Speaker 1: and grace that is unparalleled. Is that part of the
Speaker 1: thinking and making this show is to have that kinship
Speaker 1: as two women of color or non binary writers define
Speaker 1: themselves together. Yeah, I mean completely. I was exploring the
Speaker 1: stories that I read growing up and what gave me
Speaker 1: a lot of courage and allowed me to be a
Speaker 1: risk taker. Black women have a boldness about them, and
Speaker 1: we can really explore our vulnerabilities and our complexities in
Speaker 1: a world that doesn't always acknowledge that or give us hope.
Speaker 1: To be quite honest, sometimes I feel like we're being
Speaker 1: discarded in a lot of ways, and so that validation
Speaker 1: and that uplift has to come from one another, and
Speaker 1: it has to be It has to just be real,
Speaker 1: you know, you can't fake that. Like community building, I
Speaker 1: don't think I would have gone as far as I
Speaker 1: have had I not had really like robust and just
Speaker 1: like deeply felt relationships. You know. In my first anthology
Speaker 1: in the acknowledgements. I like list all of the young
Speaker 1: women that came every Sunday to the book lab like
Speaker 1: OG members, like my friend Mavis, and like like people
Speaker 1: that you know, you may night never hear about, but
Speaker 1: they're my friends now and they held me down when
Speaker 1: this book club was only like ten girls in a circle,
Speaker 1: and now it's you know, this massive movement. And I
Speaker 1: think that's what is so important, what like black women
Speaker 1: do for each other, Like we really like uplift each
Speaker 1: other and hold each other as hands through different experiences.
Speaker 1: That feeling of being discarded that you're talking about in
Speaker 1: the moment that we're in. We have thirty six states
Speaker 1: across the country that I've introduced bills to take steps
Speaker 1: to eliminate critical race theory, restricting how teachers can discuss racism, sexism,
Speaker 1: issues of systemic inequality in the classroom. The books that
Speaker 1: you're promoting on your show, through your page, through your work,
Speaker 1: but literally being discarded. Where are you at on this
Speaker 1: and how are you thinking about that? In one hand,
Speaker 1: it feels so ridiculous to me that this is actually
Speaker 1: happening in this time and place when we have access
Speaker 1: to so much technology and knowledge and plain old facts
Speaker 1: that we're still debating about history. Critical race theory has
Speaker 1: been manipulated and co opted by individuals that don't want
Speaker 1: to see it succeed. I mean, I'm just going to
Speaker 1: say it rolls, but a lot of times, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just like they want to rewrite history and they
Speaker 1: want to make it sound as if black people have
Speaker 1: now contributed to the fabric of what it is to
Speaker 1: be an American. We are part of culture, and we
Speaker 1: are deserving of more recognition, Like we don't need to
Speaker 1: have anymore, Like this is the first black person doing
Speaker 1: blank fill in the blank, like right now where we're
Speaker 1: having the big debate about who's going to be the
Speaker 1: next Supreme Court justice and the hope is Biden will
Speaker 1: nominate a black woman, and it's like long overdue. It
Speaker 1: feels ridiculous to still be having those conversations and to
Speaker 1: be talking about these things. It's not discourse we're having.
Speaker 1: It feels like, well, there's a feud happening between like
Speaker 1: right and left, and there's not like a middle space
Speaker 1: to even figure out, like why are we feeling this way?
Speaker 1: Why is everyone so afraid? I feel like everyone's like
Speaker 1: very much into like the fear. Does that make sense? Well,
Speaker 1: the feud is like two people arguing over something different,
Speaker 1: each equipped with different facts. So there's a feud and
Speaker 1: an argument, but there's no central argument that we can
Speaker 1: even agree upon. Right, we can't even argue because we
Speaker 1: don't even know what the argument is. Yeah, again, so
Speaker 1: much of it is fact. And when we read you know,
Speaker 1: work by Colehannah Jones and the you know, the sixteen
Speaker 1: nineteen project, and we revisit that origin story these this
Speaker 1: isn't stuff she just like pulled out of thin air.
Speaker 1: There is history and senses and things that we can
Speaker 1: reference in sight. And that is why I'm so confused
Speaker 1: on how we're in this place when we're like debating
Speaker 1: the truth in such a visceral way. I know what
Speaker 1: my truth is. I know what the facts are. I'm
Speaker 1: a student of history, and regardless of these policies and
Speaker 1: these things you can do to try to stop it,
Speaker 1: you can't stop history, you can't stop the facts. You
Speaker 1: can try to erase it and hide it, but like, oh,
Speaker 1: the truth always comes to light. And I do really
Speaker 1: strongly believe that it's cliches it might sound, I think
Speaker 1: the truth will always prevail. You called yourself a student
Speaker 1: of history, and I think you're bringing that kind of
Speaker 1: academic rigor to your podcast. Last year, in an interview
Speaker 1: with Essence, you said, I really want to serve as
Speaker 1: a conduit or even a midwife, bringing these worlds together
Speaker 1: and use my talents to inspire and encourage future generations
Speaker 1: to do this work of archiving and reading and doing
Speaker 1: deep study and reflection. I'm mindful of not using the
Speaker 1: language of giving voice, because the reality is everyone has
Speaker 1: their own voice. It is simply giving space. And that
Speaker 1: quote made me wonder about the crux of your show,
Speaker 1: which is maybe not about giving voice to black women
Speaker 1: and non binary writers, but actually just giving them space.
Speaker 1: Is that a fair characterization? Yes, I mean I encounter
Speaker 1: so many very talented writers that are looking for just
Speaker 1: a way to break in. They want to be published,
Speaker 1: to have their works appreciated. They just want a little
Speaker 1: bit of opportunity. It's not their fault that they're not
Speaker 1: being seen. It's the systems, you know. And we have
Speaker 1: to break the systems, and we have to just allow
Speaker 1: for there to be more opportunity. We can be resources
Speaker 1: from one another. We can like share our value and
Speaker 1: show people how the publishing industry really works, and within
Speaker 1: the podcast being to really dispel some of these myths
Speaker 1: of what it means to be a writer. And you know,
Speaker 1: maybe one person you know sits at their computer every
Speaker 1: day for forty five minutes and writes, or and another
Speaker 1: person has like a house full of kids and they're
Speaker 1: writing on their yellow pad on the weekends, or they
Speaker 1: have to go to a retreat. Or maybe one person
Speaker 1: wrote their book in two years and another person took
Speaker 1: twelve years. All of those things matter, and there's no
Speaker 1: one way because I feel like I'm continuing to learn
Speaker 1: and evolve into the space. A lot of times I
Speaker 1: still feel like an outsider, to be quite honest, but
Speaker 1: I'm watching and I'm asking for help, and I have
Speaker 1: tons of mentors and people that I can call on
Speaker 1: to say like is this the right way? Like what
Speaker 1: do you think of this? Can you read this with me?
Speaker 1: Can you tell me about your experience? And all of
Speaker 1: those stories and all of that communication, just I go
Speaker 1: back and I share it. I want people to see
Speaker 1: that my journey has been completely all over the map,
Speaker 1: but I'm here, and if I'm here, I want to
Speaker 1: turn back and help someone else. You've been talking about
Speaker 1: your winding journey to get here. Why don't we try
Speaker 1: to understand some of this Because you're born in Arlington, Virginia.
Speaker 1: You're the eldest of three siblings. Your parents survivors of
Speaker 1: Nigeria's Biafra War. They came to the US in the
Speaker 1: early eighties, but you and your mother go back to
Speaker 1: Nigeria for preschool in kindergarten before returning to the States
Speaker 1: in the late eighties. It's here that I want to begin,
Speaker 1: because you've said the origin of well read Black Girl
Speaker 1: comes from a place of longing and needing to see
Speaker 1: a positive reflection of myself. My mother experienced depression when
Speaker 1: I was growing up. She was an incredible mother, but
Speaker 1: at times she wasn't able to show up fully as herself.
Speaker 1: How did your mother's depression propel you into literature? With
Speaker 1: my mom, she is such a beautiful person, full of
Speaker 1: such light and joy, and the moments that she wasn't herself,
Speaker 1: they were really outside of her depression. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: a really complicated subject because when you have someone that
Speaker 1: you love and you want to see them do well
Speaker 1: and they're suffering, and then you're a young person witnessing this,
Speaker 1: like you see your parents going through something, it's hard
Speaker 1: to really reconcile all those things in your mind because
Speaker 1: you just want you just want your parents, and you
Speaker 1: want them to guide you and give you advice and
Speaker 1: kind of nurture you. And I was in a really
Speaker 1: pivotal point in my adolescence where I was trying to
Speaker 1: figure out my own sense of identity and I was
Speaker 1: looking for examples. And when my mom wasn't able to
Speaker 1: show up for me the way that I wanted her to,
Speaker 1: I turned to books in the library, you know, stuffing
Speaker 1: tons of books into my back back and looking for
Speaker 1: like photos of black women and photos and like chapter
Speaker 1: books that would explain what it meant to be a
Speaker 1: young person and an adult, like there's a great book
Speaker 1: by Farah Griffin and that's called Read until You Understand.
Speaker 1: And I constantly felt like I was like reading to
Speaker 1: understand myself in the people around me. And then I
Speaker 1: also struggled with the duality of being Nigerian American. As
Speaker 1: you mentioned, both my parents are Nigerian, I was born
Speaker 1: here in the United States, but we would go back
Speaker 1: and forth. I never felt like fully American enough or
Speaker 1: fully Nigerian enough, and there was this just weird dichotomy
Speaker 1: that I was like struggling with where even my name,
Speaker 1: everyone tends to really be excited and give me compliments
Speaker 1: because my name is Glory, and most think that it's
Speaker 1: for religious reasons. I'm actually named after my aunt who
Speaker 1: passed away, and Glory is a very popular name in Nigeria.
Speaker 1: It's like Kelly or Sarah of Nigeria. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of young women named Glory, so you know, but here
Speaker 1: you ud say it's like a unique thing, like oh,
Speaker 1: your name's Glory, Like I've never heard that. You know,
Speaker 1: you go to Lake US Airport and say Glory, like
Speaker 1: thirty people turned around. You know, It's it's not a
Speaker 1: big deal. But but I was also trying to figure
Speaker 1: that out in a lot of ways. And the third
Speaker 1: thing to that is like my parents came here seeking
Speaker 1: their American dream and a lot of ways was like
Speaker 1: they were trying to assimilate to American culture. I went
Speaker 1: through this phase of like not wanting to assimilate. I
Speaker 1: wanted to know everything about Nigerian history, and I wanted
Speaker 1: to know about the first president Azeki Way and I
Speaker 1: wanted to know everything and they were like, no, we
Speaker 1: are in the we're here now. You need to learn
Speaker 1: about the civil war and Harriet Tubman and like you
Speaker 1: need to like we're here, like we're not trying to
Speaker 1: go back there. They wanted to separate in ways because
Speaker 1: they had intense trauma, like being through the buyaf For war,
Speaker 1: and I didn't understand that. I felt they were like
Speaker 1: withholding some of what I wanted to know. So when
Speaker 1: they wouldn't answer my questions, I would turn to a book.
Speaker 1: What were the early answers that you found in reading?
Speaker 1: That's a great question. I mean I discovered more about
Speaker 1: what it means to be Nigerian American and how to
Speaker 1: hold both parts of myself in my hand and not
Speaker 1: shun away from one side. One thing that I always
Speaker 1: wanted to and I'm still trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1: Like I don't I can't speak my native dialect, and
Speaker 1: I definitely cannot even like do a Nigerian accent. I
Speaker 1: would embarrass myself right now. But what I do appreciate
Speaker 1: is just the richness of my culture and the food
Speaker 1: and the music. And I visit Nigeria as much as possible.
Speaker 1: And although I can't speak the language. It is so
Speaker 1: still part of me, so that longing has dissipated. It's
Speaker 1: like I know it's part of me. I know it's
Speaker 1: in my bloodline. I'm so proud of my ancestors, the
Speaker 1: ones I know and don't know. But I'm also so
Speaker 1: proud to be American and to be a black woman
Speaker 1: and understand all of the things it means to embody
Speaker 1: black feminism and go to the university that shaped me
Speaker 1: in tremendous ways, Howard University. My father is also an
Speaker 1: alumni of Howard. Those experiences made me feel like I
Speaker 1: was on solid ground, and it built my confidence. The
Speaker 1: questioning now is more out of curiosity and just wanting
Speaker 1: to be knowledgeable in like hungry for information. It is
Speaker 1: not coming from a place of self doubt growing up.
Speaker 1: I know you said that what you ended up having
Speaker 1: to do was mothering yourself, which comes from a passage
Speaker 1: in Sister Outsider by Audrey Lord. In it, she writes,
Speaker 1: mothering ourselves means learning to love what we have given
Speaker 1: birth to by giving definition to learning how to be
Speaker 1: both kind and demanding in the teeth of failure as
Speaker 1: well as in the face of success and not misnaming
Speaker 1: either claiming some power over who we choose to be
Speaker 1: and knowing that such power is relative within the realities
Speaker 1: of our lives. Now that you're about to turn forty,
Speaker 1: you just had a kid of your own, You're writing
Speaker 1: a memoir about your family and childhood. What does that
Speaker 1: idea of mothering yourself mean to you? I think so
Speaker 1: much of the mothering is made up of praise and reflection,
Speaker 1: being more gentle with myself, reflecting on the moments without
Speaker 1: being critical, especially as I entered this new decade. As
Speaker 1: I raise my son, I want him to be just
Speaker 1: so I hope he's like me, Like I hope he
Speaker 1: really will ask a lot of questions and be curious
Speaker 1: about things and just say why, why why? And if
Speaker 1: I don't have the answers, I'm going to point him
Speaker 1: to someone who does. Like I really want our households
Speaker 1: to be filled with stories and music and experiences, and
Speaker 1: I want there to be like a joy in everything
Speaker 1: that we do together. And I think I am about
Speaker 1: to turn forty. Most people think I look a lot
Speaker 1: younger than I am, So I'm excited about forty, you know,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't even have like a real expectation of motherhood. Really,
Speaker 1: I was just like, I don't know what this is
Speaker 1: going to be like because I was so intricral to
Speaker 1: like my siblings. I was very involved in like raising
Speaker 1: them and being with them, and so I wasn't sure
Speaker 1: like how my mothering would show up with my son.
Speaker 1: But it's been so much fun and I know that
Speaker 1: like the life that I have, it's okay for to
Speaker 1: make it up. I want to be fully in my
Speaker 1: living and I just don't want to exist to kind
Speaker 1: of check things off a box. I want it to
Speaker 1: be just like an experience and we write it down.
Speaker 1: And remember when we recorded. My dad passed away in
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, and one thing I'm so grateful that I did.
Speaker 1: When I went to visit him in Nigeria. I did
Speaker 1: a bunch of audio recordings and videos and anytime that
Speaker 1: like I missed him where I feel sad, I like,
Speaker 1: I pop it on and I was even able to
Speaker 1: share it with my son, like I can, like you
Speaker 1: want to see ground Paul, Like, let's play this video
Speaker 1: and you can hear him telling a story about who
Speaker 1: he was and just laughing, like I miss his laugh
Speaker 1: so much. Oh I'm about to cry. I just miss him,
Speaker 1: and I'm just glad that I have like that audio
Speaker 1: to like play back all the things that I'm doing.
Speaker 1: It's like you can look back at them. You can
Speaker 1: look back at the bucks. And I listen to the
Speaker 1: audio and like be in that moment. There's something that's
Speaker 1: like really beautiful about listening to someone's voice. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: it's all right. When you thought of him just then,
Speaker 1: what came to mind. I was really thinking about his laugh,
Speaker 1: my dad. I like the best laugh. You know. It
Speaker 1: was just like his whole body would laugh, and like
Speaker 1: he would kind of like push his head back, and
Speaker 1: you know, it's just kind of like silly chuckle. You know.
Speaker 1: I really miss his laugh. But I feel so fortunate
Speaker 1: that I have video and audio of him talking. I
Speaker 1: can hear and I can kind of go back to
Speaker 1: that space. The voice is powerful, man, Like, when you
Speaker 1: lose someone that's like outside of their physical touch, I
Speaker 1: think you missed their voice. Most something you've been promoting
Speaker 1: for the last decade is for stories centered around black
Speaker 1: women to be messy and idiosyncratic and full of humanity.
Speaker 1: And I was thinking about that idea of mothering yourself
Speaker 1: when I brought it up. You went to the positive
Speaker 1: side of that, but I have to imagine the other
Speaker 1: end is that you turned to books as a means
Speaker 1: of survival. You turned the books as refuge in the
Speaker 1: face of your mother's depression, And I wondered, what did
Speaker 1: that look like. Sometimes it could just be really hard
Speaker 1: to feel like no one else is going through this thing,
Speaker 1: or no one else understands, and unfortunately that a lot
Speaker 1: of people have access to therapy or someone's really listened
Speaker 1: to them. And when I was missing those things, that's
Speaker 1: why I would journal, and I would read books like
Speaker 1: I read so much of Bell Hooks, and she gave
Speaker 1: me a firm understanding of what it meant to be
Speaker 1: in solitude with yourself and the difference between being alone
Speaker 1: and lonely, and how to negotiate the feelings of loving
Speaker 1: oneself and loving another even as I entered romantic relationships
Speaker 1: like she was such a guide for me. And I
Speaker 1: will admit like when I read those things, especially in college,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I always understood them immediately, but
Speaker 1: I reread and reread and then became courageous enough to
Speaker 1: like talk to other people and know what they were
Speaker 1: going through. And so that loneliness or that connection that
Speaker 1: like you're seeking, you can find it in the stories
Speaker 1: that feel and sound like you. The reason I talk
Speaker 1: about Maya Angelo so much is because I felt like
Speaker 1: she felt so familiar. I'm like, I know the sound
Speaker 1: of this woman's voice. It's like it's my grandmother's voice.
Speaker 1: It felt just like a kinship. And once you recognize that,
Speaker 1: you can't I don't know, you can't miss it, like
Speaker 1: you just want it again and again, and so I
Speaker 1: just can tinue to like pull books that made me
Speaker 1: feel wanted. It made me feel more secure. Maybe initially
Speaker 1: I was faking it a little bit. I was just
Speaker 1: trying to make it up. But then eventually it started
Speaker 1: to feel real, and it started to my voice got stronger,
Speaker 1: and I felt like on solid ground even though a
Speaker 1: lot of hard stuff was happening. And then I started
Speaker 1: to kind of see the patterns of my life too,
Speaker 1: like something hard would happen and then something wonderful would happen,
Speaker 1: like in the same like it'd be like back to back,
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, what is happening? You know? To
Speaker 1: think about my dad again. The month and my dad
Speaker 1: passed away was the same month I got my book deal.
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to him immediately. I wanted to
Speaker 1: tell him, but I also felt like he was the
Speaker 1: one that made it possible. I'm just like, I know
Speaker 1: you're up there orchestrating something, you know, Like, so I
Speaker 1: kind of see life in that way all the time.
Speaker 1: I'm like, hard things can happen, and wonderful things always
Speaker 1: happening that way. I mean, it's happening now, like I'm
Speaker 1: going through some hard things, but also amazing things are
Speaker 1: happening at the same time. So it's just like that's life,
Speaker 1: you know, if you remain hopeful and positive without being
Speaker 1: like unrealistic. I'm definitely not promoting toxic positivity in anyway,
Speaker 1: but I do see just like when things are difficult,
Speaker 1: be realistic, but also just having hope for something better.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a quick break. Of course.
Speaker 1: You mentioned I Know Why the Cage Bird Sings, which
Speaker 1: I believe was your first book report in school. It
Speaker 1: was one of them. Yeah, God bless my teachers because
Speaker 1: I'm like, they're probably like, what is this girl talking about?
Speaker 1: But it's interesting that experience is a kind of precursor
Speaker 1: to all the work that you would do and are
Speaker 1: doing now what happened there? One of my first jobs
Speaker 1: out of college, I was a reading instructor and the
Speaker 1: school was named My Angelo Public Charter School, and so
Speaker 1: I had an opportunity to meet doctor Angelo several times
Speaker 1: because she would come to the school to do like
Speaker 1: fundraisers and just help, you know, encourage the students. And
Speaker 1: then when I was at Howard, i also saw her.
Speaker 1: She would come to speak, and I remember this one moment,
Speaker 1: you know, when everyone had disposable cameras, like that was
Speaker 1: just like the thing, like no one really had a
Speaker 1: digital camera or on their phone. So we tried to
Speaker 1: take a photo of My Angel with our like disposable camera,
Speaker 1: and she was just not amused. She was like, what
Speaker 1: is this contraption You're trying to take a She was like,
Speaker 1: please go find a real camera somewhere, Like what is
Speaker 1: this like box? She was like so unimpressed in the
Speaker 1: most elegant, graceful way, of course, But I just felt
Speaker 1: like I kept having this wonderful encounters with her work.
Speaker 1: And so even with that time where we trying to
Speaker 1: take a picture of her, she ended up signing a
Speaker 1: book that I have in my house. Frames It's just
Speaker 1: such a beautiful her signature, like I remember just like
Speaker 1: looking at just like the beauty of the lines and
Speaker 1: how she wrote her ms, and it just was just
Speaker 1: everything about seeing her and hearing her reading her work
Speaker 1: over and over and over again. I just maybe it
Speaker 1: was just by like osmosis, like I just felt like
Speaker 1: I can do this too, Like I can emulate her
Speaker 1: vibe and her audacity, and just like her energy. She
Speaker 1: was so like energy giving. I don't know, have you
Speaker 1: have you listened to my angel's voice, like just like
Speaker 1: the tenor of it is just so captivating, you know
Speaker 1: many times? Yes, yes, it's just all of that. And
Speaker 1: so I think I kept getting these signs and by
Speaker 1: no means that like that was the sign very clear,
Speaker 1: like you will start the well read Black Girl book Club.
Speaker 1: But it was more or less that if you want
Speaker 1: to live this life that this woman has had, and
Speaker 1: she's had many lies, you can do that too. You
Speaker 1: have to have a lot of hope, resilience, and you
Speaker 1: have to be able to take your pain and make
Speaker 1: it something greater than yourself. I have had a lot
Speaker 1: of painful moments, but especially when I think about my
Speaker 1: mom's depression and how it impacted our family, but in essence,
Speaker 1: like it's become part of me and transformed me. It's
Speaker 1: made me be a better listener. It's made me acknowledge
Speaker 1: when other people are going through things because we're all
Speaker 1: going through things and have so much empathy for that.
Speaker 1: I might look like all like sunshine and rainbows on Instagram,
Speaker 1: but I trust me, I understand what it's like to
Speaker 1: be grieving and have loss and be in like and
Speaker 1: just sit in with your sadness in a way, but
Speaker 1: it's that sadness and not all of you, So like,
Speaker 1: how to bring all of you to your life? And
Speaker 1: as I read all of my Angel's work, like she
Speaker 1: just would tell you, moment after moment where it'd be.
Speaker 1: I mean, the book starts out with her mean rap
Speaker 1: does a child? How does one share that without like
Speaker 1: sitting in shame and fear and everything else. But she
Speaker 1: walks away from that and she's like, this is what happened,
Speaker 1: and this is how I overcame it, and then here
Speaker 1: are a million other things that happened to me and
Speaker 1: I'm still a worthy and beautiful person. I ran with
Speaker 1: that and I still do. It inspires me greatly clearly
Speaker 1: mya's words have inspired you, But there's this passage and
Speaker 1: Sister Outsider that I want to go to again. Quoting
Speaker 1: Audrey Lord, she writes, anger is a passion of displeasure
Speaker 1: that may be excessive or misplaced, but not necessarily harmful
Speaker 1: and true. Sometimes it seems that anger alone keeps me alive.
Speaker 1: It burns with a bright and undiminished flame. Yet anger,
Speaker 1: like guilt, is an incomplete form of human knowledge, more
Speaker 1: useful than hatred, but still limited. Anger is useful to
Speaker 1: help clarify our differences, but in the long run, strength
Speaker 1: that is bread by anger alone, as a blind force,
Speaker 1: which cannot create the future, it can only demolish the past.
Speaker 1: Anytime we speak Audrey Lord's name, I just gotta show
Speaker 1: because she is so present. Her thinking was so future forward,
Speaker 1: and that's why we come back to it again and again,
Speaker 1: because she understood the power of her words and the
Speaker 1: responsibility she had to herself and others. Right now, especially
Speaker 1: as more writers are self identified as activists, I think
Speaker 1: it's very important to be present in your work and
Speaker 1: be honest about the things that you want to address
Speaker 1: in the world. Because that anger and that desire tied
Speaker 1: closely together. As much as some people might want to
Speaker 1: just say, like, I'm a writer, the reality is you
Speaker 1: are a black writer. You're a person of color. Like
Speaker 1: your identity, especially when you're marginalized, does speak volumes. And
Speaker 1: I think it's important to not knowledge that because I
Speaker 1: don't think we can know enough about the black experience.
Speaker 1: What Augie Lord who was speaking to is just like
Speaker 1: that expansiveness that happens when you are angry enough and
Speaker 1: frustrated enough to change things. And we need that anger.
Speaker 1: We need that like push into more futuristic thinking and innovation.
Speaker 1: You can't stop at the anger, but it is a
Speaker 1: good starting point. And yet she's saying anger helps clarify
Speaker 1: our differences, but in the long run, being driven by
Speaker 1: anger alone is a blind force which cannot create the future.
Speaker 1: And this is a moment where I think a whole
Speaker 1: lot of us are angry and we're starting to wonder
Speaker 1: and what else, what do we do with it? Once
Speaker 1: we're angry? What's on the other side of anger? And
Speaker 1: I guess I'm wondering with your show, what do you
Speaker 1: want to address in the world. I want to highlight
Speaker 1: how free and how liberating black culture and expression can be.
Speaker 1: I want people to witness that awakening of being pulled
Speaker 1: into a work that you can't stop thinking about. That
Speaker 1: is why folks are drawn to James Baldwin. And we
Speaker 1: know we read ton of hassy coats, like you want
Speaker 1: to be pulled in and you want to understand the
Speaker 1: magnitude of their brilliance. And I'm just all for it.
Speaker 1: I'm all for black excellence and black brilliance and just
Speaker 1: the beauty of our work. And if I can have
Speaker 1: an impact in changing what we say when we think of,
Speaker 1: you know, well read, or we think about what the
Speaker 1: literary canon is, I hope I have a hand in
Speaker 1: shifting that. So you will not only think about dead
Speaker 1: white men, but you will also think about Jacqueline Woodson,
Speaker 1: and you'll also think about men gin Lee, and you'll
Speaker 1: also think about just all these phenomenal women that are pinnacle.
Speaker 1: They really have studied language and they embody it and
Speaker 1: have brought forth so much creativity and brilliance. Like we
Speaker 1: need all of that. And I want to be at
Speaker 1: the helm like I want to stitch it together, like
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of it as a beautiful quilt, you know,
Speaker 1: and stitch it together and you put it on to
Speaker 1: make yourself feel warm and whole, Like I really do
Speaker 1: love to be that curator of ideas and curiosity and
Speaker 1: reading for me is so much fun, and I want
Speaker 1: like future generation's experience that same kind of giddiness when
Speaker 1: they read Glendolin Brooks or Britt Bennett, who, like all
Speaker 1: these people just deserve the recognition that feeling of warmth
Speaker 1: and wholeness. It's hard to come by, but it seems
Speaker 1: like it was something that you found as a kid
Speaker 1: when your mother would read to you after a busy
Speaker 1: day of work. And if I'm not mistaken, your earliest
Speaker 1: memory is of her reading to you. And I actually
Speaker 1: have a poem for you to read as we leave,
Speaker 1: if you want to do that. Okay, So growing up,
Speaker 1: I absolutely loved poetry. And I was watching the One
Speaker 1: and Only LeVar Burton and he put this book on
Speaker 1: the screen called Honey I Love and Other Poems by
Speaker 1: Elois Greenfield. And I was like, mom, like we have
Speaker 1: to go, you know, in my like most excited, like
Speaker 1: six or I don't even know how what I was
Speaker 1: probably like six or seven year old voices like we
Speaker 1: have to get this book, you know. So she took
Speaker 1: me to the library, and I've checked it out a
Speaker 1: million times, like to the point where she was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we have to just get you your own copy. And
Speaker 1: I just loved, loved reading it because there were like
Speaker 1: these black and white pictures of these like beautiful black
Speaker 1: girls in it. And I don't think but before then,
Speaker 1: I was like reading a lot of embarrassing bears and
Speaker 1: a lot of books with just like animal characters, you know,
Speaker 1: like most like little kids, like they're just like animals
Speaker 1: who talk. And this was the first time I like
Speaker 1: saw other black girls in a book and I was
Speaker 1: just like wow, like she looks like me. And I
Speaker 1: loved it. And also like the poem just they talked
Speaker 1: about like every day stop. It was like she was
Speaker 1: going to the store with her dad, or she was
Speaker 1: like playing double Dutch or just doing all these like
Speaker 1: very ordinary things. So I'm going to read this poem here. Oh,
Speaker 1: this is so sweet. Love don't mean all that kissing
Speaker 1: like on television. Love means Daddy's saying keep your mama
Speaker 1: company till I get back, and me doing it. I
Speaker 1: love I love a lot of things, a whole lot
Speaker 1: of things. And honey, I love me too. That was great.
Speaker 1: Your mom would read that book of poetry to you
Speaker 1: before falling asleep, And I'm just trying to imagine the
Speaker 1: arc from that kid whose earliest memory is a literature
Speaker 1: to you now an adult who's made a life dedicated
Speaker 1: to literature. For me, it feels like so many collected
Speaker 1: memories and ideas that came together from that first reading
Speaker 1: and that first understanding that language and words are powerful
Speaker 1: and they can make people feel things, and like reading
Speaker 1: does that for me. Like I read a certain sentence
Speaker 1: and I feel that tingle and I go with that.
Speaker 1: And I felt that when I was a little girl
Speaker 1: hearing that poem with my mom, and I feel it
Speaker 1: now when I read to my son. And I want
Speaker 1: to be just emotionally in tune and aware of everything
Speaker 1: that I'm experiencing, and I want the reader to feel
Speaker 1: that too. I feel like you've actually listened to the
Speaker 1: line that you wrote for your senior quote in your
Speaker 1: high school yearbook. I can't even remember I actually have
Speaker 1: my yearbook. Year what did I say? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I literally I like I made my
Speaker 1: mom bring my yearbook over to the house recently. I
Speaker 1: don't even think I looked at my picture because I
Speaker 1: was like, well, I don't know. I was like seventeen
Speaker 1: and just I don't know. Do you want to look
Speaker 1: at it now while we're here? I will let me
Speaker 1: find it. Oh my gosh, this is so wild that
Speaker 1: you brought that up, because I did have like a
Speaker 1: very deep, like Ralph Emerson like phase where I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to go into the woods, you know, and
Speaker 1: find myself. Shout out to Wakefield High School. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Put it on record. I was an SGA representative. I
Speaker 1: was a youth educator, a cheerleader, and when I discover
Speaker 1: who I am, I'll be free. If life is somewhat
Speaker 1: about constant self discovery, are you comfortable not being entirely free?
Speaker 1: My immediate answer is to say yes, I'm okay with
Speaker 1: the uncertainty. I'm okay with the flying and not knowing
Speaker 1: the destination, because there's a freedom in that too. There's
Speaker 1: a freedom in just the not knowing. Because I don't
Speaker 1: have my life perfectly planned. I have some ambitious goals,
Speaker 1: some things I want to achieve, but if it doesn't
Speaker 1: go in a precise order, I'm okay with that. I'm
Speaker 1: okay with having the road be windy. And unpredictable. It
Speaker 1: feels more exciting that way because I get to make
Speaker 1: it up. It's my life. Well, thank you for sharing
Speaker 1: some of your life here with me. I wish you
Speaker 1: the best of luck with your program. I'm very appreciative
Speaker 1: and this has been awesome, so great to just like
Speaker 1: share memories and look back at high school and everything else.
Speaker 1: So thank you for having me, Glori Adam anytime. And
Speaker 1: that's our show. I want to give us special thanks
Speaker 1: today to Nicole Morano and of course Glory Edam. You
Speaker 1: can hear the first four episodes of the Well Read
Speaker 1: Black Girl Podcast wherever you like to listen. To learn
Speaker 1: more about Glory's work, visit our website at talk easypod
Speaker 1: dot com. Once there you'll find our back catalog of
Speaker 1: over two hundred and fifty episodes. I'd recommend our talks
Speaker 1: with Nicki, Giovanni, Morgan Parker, Gloria Steinem Representative il Han
Speaker 1: omar Resma Manikum, Claudia Rankin, Oceangwong, Roxanne Gay, Brittany pat
Speaker 1: Nick Cunningham, and quest Level. To hear those and more
Speaker 1: Pushkin programs, listen on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts Spotify,
Speaker 1: or wherever you like to listen. You can also follow
Speaker 1: us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, at talk easypond. If you
Speaker 1: want to send in an email or a voice memo
Speaker 1: for our upcoming mail bag episode, you can send that
Speaker 1: to mail at talk easypod dot com. That's mail at
Speaker 1: talk easypod dot com. All we're looking for our comments, reflections,
Speaker 1: any questions you have for us, really, anything you'd like
Speaker 1: to share or hear more about on the show. The
Speaker 1: submission so far have been great, but we're always looking
Speaker 1: for more, so please send them along to mail at
Speaker 1: talk easypod dot com. If you want to support our
Speaker 1: show by purchasing one of our mugs they come in
Speaker 1: cream or Navy, or our vinyl record with fran Leebwitz,
Speaker 1: you can do so at talk easypod dot com slash shop.
Speaker 1: If you want to support the show in other ways,
Speaker 1: the best thing you can do is share the show
Speaker 1: with the friend. The second best thing you can do
Speaker 1: is rate this podcast on Spotify, review the show on
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, wherever you listen. Reviewing the show on these
Speaker 1: platforms is still the best way for new listeners to
Speaker 1: find Talk easy. Of course, the show would not be
Speaker 1: possible without our incredible team. Talk Easy is produced by
Speaker 1: Caroline Reebok. Our executive producer is Jannick so Bravo. Our
Speaker 1: associate producer is Caitlin Dryden. Today's talk was edited by
Speaker 1: Clarice Guvara and mixed by Andrew Vastola. Music by Dylan Peck,
Speaker 1: illustrations by Christia Chanoy, Video and graphics by Ian Chang,
Speaker 1: Derek gaberzach Ian Jones, Ethan Seneca, and Layla Register. Special
Speaker 1: thanks to Patrice Lee, Kaylin Ung, Shila Fagin, Nikki Spina,
Speaker 1: and Callie Syringis. I'd also like to thank the team
Speaker 1: at Pushkin Industries, Justin Richmond, Heather Fane, Mila Belle, Maggie Taylor, Byakani,
Speaker 1: Carli Migliori, Jason Gambrel, Jacob Weisberg, and Malcolm Cladwell. I'm Sanforgoso.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Talk Easy. I'll see you
Speaker 1: back here this Sunday for a special episode featuring doctor
Speaker 1: James Whitfield. Until then, stay safe in Zola.