Speaker 1: Pushkin. This is talk easy. I'm Sam Fragoso. Thank you
Speaker 1: for being here. Today's story begins in June of twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: At the time, doctor James Whitfield was barely a month
Speaker 1: and tour promotion as principal of Collyville Heritage High School.
Speaker 1: He was the first black principal of the school, which
Speaker 1: had nearly two thousand students. For reference, the city of Collyville,
Speaker 1: it sits just outside of Dallas, Texas, has a population
Speaker 1: of twenty six thousand people, eighty seven percent of which
Speaker 1: are white. Those numbers will mean something to you in
Speaker 1: a little bit. But let's go back to June twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: You probably remember that summer, the unjust killings of Ammon Aarbury,
Speaker 1: Brianna Taylor, and George Floyd, and the protest that followed.
Speaker 1: With class out of session, Doctor James Whitfield remained at
Speaker 1: home with his wife and three kids as the urgent
Speaker 1: calls for racial justice and police reform continued. He watched
Speaker 1: his peers, both educators and administrators, send in passionate emails
Speaker 1: about this historic moment, the possibility of change that could
Speaker 1: come from this great racial reckoning, a term the media
Speaker 1: continued to use. Then came the morning of June third,
Speaker 1: Whitfield couldn't sleep. He tossed and turned before eventually getting
Speaker 1: on a bed. He sat down at his desk and
Speaker 1: began drafting an email to Collyville High School parents. At
Speaker 1: four thirty in the morning, he sent it. The content
Speaker 1: of the email, which you'll hear in our conversation, would
Speaker 1: irrevocably alter the course of his life, both inside the
Speaker 1: classroom and out. The focus of his letter was around
Speaker 1: our ongoing battle with race in America. Our schools set
Speaker 1: the foundation for our future, he writes. Education is the
Speaker 1: key to stomping out ignorance, hate, and systemic racism. It's
Speaker 1: a necessary conduit to get to liberty and justice for all.
Speaker 1: It's a great responsibility, but one that I'm so happy
Speaker 1: to embrace with you. And for a short time after,
Speaker 1: both colleagues and parents of the school seemed eager to
Speaker 1: embrace this responsibility too. The email was met with the
Speaker 1: warm reception. Members of the community send thank you notes
Speaker 1: asking what they could read to be better informed to
Speaker 1: be anti racist. But then a year later, in the
Speaker 1: summer of twenty twenty one, that Warmth had dissipated. The
Speaker 1: conversation shifted from thinking critically about race to the perils
Speaker 1: of critical race theory, or commonly referred to as CRT.
Speaker 1: And doctor James Whitfield, well by virtue of being a
Speaker 1: black principle in a predominantly white city who suggested plainly
Speaker 1: in that email that black lives do matter, found himself
Speaker 1: in the crosshairs of a conservative community, a community that
Speaker 1: insisted he added CRT to the curriculum and should be
Speaker 1: fired immediately. Come the fall of twenty twenty one, they
Speaker 1: got their wish. Woodfield was fired. His removal as principle
Speaker 1: of Collyville High School came as thirty States proposed constraints
Speaker 1: on any substantial teaching of America's racist history in schools
Speaker 1: in that time, as they do today. Conservatives claimed critical
Speaker 1: race theory was fundamentally anti American. But here's the thing,
Speaker 1: Doctor James Woodfield, for all that he was accused of,
Speaker 1: never taught critical race theory in that email I mentioned.
Speaker 1: He didn't propose educational reforms. He wasn't upending the curriculum.
Speaker 1: When the school board elected to not renew his contract,
Speaker 1: they said it had nothing to do with the accusations
Speaker 1: from parents. They cited insipart nation, deleting emails, and other
Speaker 1: deficiencies in his performance. But you can read between the
Speaker 1: lines here. So how does this happen? How does a
Speaker 1: beloved principle, an educator promoted twice in three years, how
Speaker 1: does he lose his job for something he didn't do?
Speaker 1: To understand, we have to go back to twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: and to do that I had to call up doctor
Speaker 1: James Whitfield himself. Doctor James Whitfield, thank you for being here.
Speaker 1: So great to be here, which you say, there are
Speaker 1: many places to begin, but I want to start at
Speaker 1: the beginning here, which is in the spring of twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: you're hired as the principal and Heritage Mental School. Now,
Speaker 1: later that fall of twenty nineteen, you're asked by your
Speaker 1: colleagues to present a PowerPoint presentation called breaking the Barriers,
Speaker 1: talking about our differences. What was in that presentation? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a great question. So when I was assistant principal
Speaker 1: at Colleyville Heritage, two colleagues of mine and I we
Speaker 1: talked about coming up with a presentation for the upcoming
Speaker 1: School Years Professional Learning conference. You know, districts they have
Speaker 1: professional learning days, and what we had on the agenda
Speaker 1: for that fall was just an opportunity for educators to
Speaker 1: sign up for choice sessions. And so there were a
Speaker 1: lot of different things out there, but we really wanted
Speaker 1: to focus in on embracing the diverse differences that are
Speaker 1: evident in our buildings each day. We feel like when
Speaker 1: you know, people know their background and the stories and
Speaker 1: it lived experiences that they come with, that we're able
Speaker 1: to more effectively work together and build trust and build
Speaker 1: these bonds that we know will be needed to move
Speaker 1: the needle for our kids. And so, you know, that
Speaker 1: presentation was just that it was putting out there that
Speaker 1: this false notion of the good bad binary when it
Speaker 1: comes to racism, talking about how, you know, we do
Speaker 1: have systemic racism and talking about how do you identify,
Speaker 1: you know, how our identities that we carry with us
Speaker 1: impact our work and impact how we interact with each others.
Speaker 1: That's what we were doing in that presentation, trying to
Speaker 1: break down those barriers, right. And so what's what's really
Speaker 1: interesting about this particular presentation is that I had the
Speaker 1: least part of the presentation specifically because one of the
Speaker 1: ladies that was the curator of the presentation, said, we
Speaker 1: don't need to be trotting the black guy out there
Speaker 1: yet again to have to be the one to engage
Speaker 1: people in this conversation. To be clear, you're presenting this
Speaker 1: presentation with two other colleagues, correct, a Hispanic female and
Speaker 1: a white female, and so they had the bulk of
Speaker 1: the presentation. My part of the presentation was where, you know,
Speaker 1: I talked about my experience with my grandfather, who on
Speaker 1: my mother's side is white, and experience with him and
Speaker 1: his background and you know, the things that he believed
Speaker 1: and how meeting me, his black grandson, kind of shifted
Speaker 1: his perspective and helped him learn more about, you know,
Speaker 1: a different side of the world than he had been
Speaker 1: led to believe. But what was interesting about that particular
Speaker 1: presentation again was that it wasn't curated by me, but
Speaker 1: that would be something that the people in the community,
Speaker 1: so to speak, this small minority group of people that
Speaker 1: were rather loud, it would be something that they would
Speaker 1: point to as me being this proponent of critical race
Speaker 1: theory and leading the charge in that regard. Now, it's
Speaker 1: also worth mentioning that this presentation, which had twenty nine
Speaker 1: attendees comprising of administrators, staff and teachers. Like any session
Speaker 1: had to be approved by the district prior to being published.
Speaker 1: Is that right? Everybody had to submit, you know what
Speaker 1: you were presenting on that day. Yeah, we were allowed
Speaker 1: to go ahead and move forward with the presentation. In
Speaker 1: this presentation, it says what it is and isn't about.
Speaker 1: The group said, this is a session in which vulnerability
Speaker 1: is needed, a session that meets people where they are,
Speaker 1: a session about all differences, not just race. What it
Speaker 1: isn't about is a session on how to teach your
Speaker 1: black students, a session to decide who was right and
Speaker 1: who is wrong, a session to hear a lecture or
Speaker 1: see a presentation. You know, it was clear in our
Speaker 1: goals and our objective for the presentation itself. You know,
Speaker 1: this wasn't about shaming anybody, as they like to say, right,
Speaker 1: causing guilt or discomfort. This is really about us all
Speaker 1: being vulnerable and knowing that we all come with these
Speaker 1: diverse experiences inside this space each day. And in talking
Speaker 1: with the educators in that room, they found it so powerful,
Speaker 1: not only as the adults, but going how does this
Speaker 1: relate to my classroom? And how can I feel so
Speaker 1: much more safe with people that I've generally worked with
Speaker 1: for years. I feel so much safer now knowing these things.
Speaker 1: How much could this transfer to my classroom in creating
Speaker 1: that safe and welcoming environment for all kids, and so
Speaker 1: anything that is related to diversity, equity, inclusion, diverse differences,
Speaker 1: that was something they're going to try to grab and
Speaker 1: construe as critical race theory. That presentation is made in
Speaker 1: the fall of twenty nineteen. You and your colleagues take
Speaker 1: the lessons learn from that presentation into twenty twenty. Obviously,
Speaker 1: March comes, the pandemic brings everything to a halt. Come
Speaker 1: May eighteenth of twenty twenty, you're hired as the principle
Speaker 1: of Colleyville Heritage High School. In fact, you were the
Speaker 1: first black principal in the school's twenty five year history.
Speaker 1: The next week, I'm twenty five. George Floyd is killed
Speaker 1: in Minneapolis by officer Derek Chauvin. By the time early
Speaker 1: June comes around, George Floyd, mont Aarbury, Brianna Taylor had
Speaker 1: all been killed. By the time June came around, Fortune
Speaker 1: five hundred companies had begun posting black squares and solidarity
Speaker 1: with the protesters marching around the world. And then came
Speaker 1: June thirty, four thirty am you and your house awake
Speaker 1: writing an email to parents from the high school for
Speaker 1: people who don't know, how would you describe what's in there?
Speaker 1: You know that email for me, you mentioned all of
Speaker 1: the things going on around the world during this time.
Speaker 1: And you know in that email, I state towards the
Speaker 1: beginning that, yes, we face this pandemic right now, this
Speaker 1: disease that's floating around right that we can't see, but
Speaker 1: we also face another pandemic, and that is systemic racism.
Speaker 1: And I went on to say that, you know, I then,
Speaker 1: forty two years, almost forty two years of life, I've
Speaker 1: never before seen people come together the way that they
Speaker 1: had come together to denounce systemic racism and say that
Speaker 1: they were willing to learn and grow. And it was
Speaker 1: inspiring that while we were going through this tragedy, this
Speaker 1: devastating time, I found hoping that those conflicting emotions just
Speaker 1: got me out of bed at four thirty and I
Speaker 1: typed up that letter, and you know, I ended with
Speaker 1: as I am most letters, telling people, Hey, I love you,
Speaker 1: I'm here with you, I want to work with you.
Speaker 1: I know it's gonna be hard. I know we're gonna
Speaker 1: have to have uncomfortable conversations, but we're gonna be able
Speaker 1: to get through this. And you know, I believe in
Speaker 1: the power of us as a collective. And so that
Speaker 1: was generally it. And the comments that came from that
Speaker 1: when I sent it, the feedback was positive. People, you know, said, hey,
Speaker 1: thank you for sending this. I've never seen a school person,
Speaker 1: you know, send something out like this, and you know,
Speaker 1: I just really really appreciate you sinning it. And so
Speaker 1: that would I didn't receive one negative remark at the
Speaker 1: time when that email was sent. Can I read from
Speaker 1: the end of your email? Yeah? Sure. Let's not allow
Speaker 1: this moment to be a flash in the pan. Let's
Speaker 1: commit to the work and the hard, vulnerable, and uncomfortable
Speaker 1: conversations that we must have to ensure we grow personally
Speaker 1: and professionally. Our youth are always watching us, but now
Speaker 1: more than ever, our young people of color specifically are
Speaker 1: watching to see how we will respond. Will we retreat
Speaker 1: back into comfort, or will we advance with great vigor
Speaker 1: into the often turbulent waters that come with tearing down
Speaker 1: systems of oppression. I'm geared up and ready for demolition
Speaker 1: for our kids and our nation in thinking about what
Speaker 1: was to follow. Is there any part of you that
Speaker 1: would have written that in any other way? Now? I
Speaker 1: would send it out again because that is how I
Speaker 1: feel all too often, especially as educators, and especially as
Speaker 1: educators of color, We're in these spaces where we feel
Speaker 1: limited on what we can say or how we need
Speaker 1: to say things, and we're not able to express and
Speaker 1: be our full selves in many of these places. And
Speaker 1: I just reached a point where, you know, I'm reflecting
Speaker 1: on what is my responsibility as a leader, as someone
Speaker 1: in my community that people look to for guidance and
Speaker 1: support and encouragement. What is my responsibility to speak truth
Speaker 1: and help move our community and our country forward. There's
Speaker 1: not a data's passed that I've gone. Well. I wish
Speaker 1: I would have said it this way, or I wish
Speaker 1: I would have done this, or maybe I should have
Speaker 1: edited this. That email came straight from my heart. Every
Speaker 1: word in that email, I'm meant it with a deep,
Speaker 1: deep conviction, and I would stand by that until the end.
Speaker 1: It's funny you said that email comes from your heart,
Speaker 1: and even as you replay it now, I can sense
Speaker 1: that it produces a lot of emotion in you. Oh. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: you know, as I'm talking to you about it, I'm
Speaker 1: going back to that night. You know, it was literally
Speaker 1: for thirty in the morning. As I was typing that
Speaker 1: it was no secret that I was the first black
Speaker 1: principle at this school. And knowing that I'm serving you know,
Speaker 1: about half the student population are students of color, and
Speaker 1: knowing that I'm in this position that people are looking
Speaker 1: to me just like I would look to others right
Speaker 1: in leadership positions, and going what are you going to do?
Speaker 1: You know, what are you going to say? But really,
Speaker 1: what are you going to do in this moment to
Speaker 1: help move us forward? That was my goal and intend
Speaker 1: it was heavy on my heart and a new people
Speaker 1: needed to hear something, but like I say, more importantly,
Speaker 1: they needed to see something. And so that was just
Speaker 1: kind of a jumping off point saying, hey, we can
Speaker 1: do this. And then as we went into the school year,
Speaker 1: even though we experienced one of the most challenging school
Speaker 1: years in our lifetimes, we did some amazing things for
Speaker 1: kids in that school year. Between August twenty twenty and
Speaker 1: May of twenty twenty one. What did you do that
Speaker 1: you're proud of? We created the first diversity Advisory council
Speaker 1: at the school, and this was the first diversity advisory
Speaker 1: council in the school's history. When we did a Martin
Speaker 1: Luther King Day, that's a holiday, it's a student holiday,
Speaker 1: staff holiday, and people like to think of that as
Speaker 1: a day off. But if you know anything about the
Speaker 1: legacy of doctor Martin Luther King, he was all about service,
Speaker 1: and so our slogan was a day on, not a
Speaker 1: day off, and so we changed it into a day
Speaker 1: of service. We had student groups, fraternities from the area,
Speaker 1: law enforcement, tons of people showed up to collect basic
Speaker 1: goods and necessities for people in our community. Underst our,
Speaker 1: students could come and grab basic necessities, you know, at
Speaker 1: the end of the week or whenever they needed it.
Speaker 1: We gathered so many items that we were able to
Speaker 1: distribute those district wide and help you know, schools all
Speaker 1: around the district. And so those are just a couple
Speaker 1: of things that we did to be about, you know,
Speaker 1: creating this sense of community, celebrate and diversity and equity
Speaker 1: and inclusion. While you're creating that experience of equity inclusion,
Speaker 1: and diversity. There is something happening on the other end
Speaker 1: of the political spectrum at that time. In September of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, Trump produces an executive order that calls for
Speaker 1: new federal workplace requirements aimed at promoting unity by barring
Speaker 1: training on divisive concepts, including race or sex, stereotyping, or
Speaker 1: any other instruction painting the United States as fundamentally racist.
Speaker 1: Come March through May of twenty twenty one, Fox News
Speaker 1: becomes fixated on the term critical race theory. They utter
Speaker 1: it over nineteen hundred times in that three and a
Speaker 1: half month span. But come April of twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: you're given a job evaluation that gave no sign that
Speaker 1: your career was in danger or that you were in
Speaker 1: threat of being terminated. In fact, your job evaluation yielded
Speaker 1: a twenty twenty one to twenty twenty two contract in
Speaker 1: which you would remain as the principle of Collieville hare
Speaker 1: to Tight School. Come May and June of twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: school is out for summer. Then July twenty six, in
Speaker 1: the thick of summer, there is a GCISD Board of
Speaker 1: Trustees meeting featuring a stream of animated, irate parents levying
Speaker 1: claims against you. Next on the agenda is our open
Speaker 1: forums section of our board meeting. Twenty eighteen, my oldest
Speaker 1: son who was three years old, so they had an
Speaker 1: open house. They invited the community and my son in
Speaker 1: law went down there and I was shocked at what
Speaker 1: I saw. It was so over the top. It was
Speaker 1: like a temple to critical theory the school. Okay, we
Speaker 1: need our schools to, as people have said, focus on academics,
Speaker 1: and we need to figure out how to smooth this out.
Speaker 1: I'm here to talk about how incredibly concerned I am
Speaker 1: about what is happening within the district, especiale with social
Speaker 1: justice conditioning in the classroom. Wasting countless hours in the
Speaker 1: classroom on a weekly basis, covering topics on social justice,
Speaker 1: equity and array of emotional topics will get these children nowhere.
Speaker 1: There's nothing loving or kind to teach children. They are
Speaker 1: victims and wasting their precious class time on nonsense. Erase
Speaker 1: these programs from our classrooms and prioritize education in the
Speaker 1: schools again. Thank you. I've seen the curriculum changed drastically.
Speaker 1: There's a stream shot of a book titled a book
Speaker 1: about whiteness that's racist. This isn't our elementary school. I'm
Speaker 1: one of these people that have been stuck at home
Speaker 1: for the last sixty months, and I've had plenty of time,
Speaker 1: and I've done some research, and I'm getting involved locally.
Speaker 1: I want you all to know, we all are starting
Speaker 1: to get that way. We're gonna get fired up in
Speaker 1: the next election. It's going to be over. As you're
Speaker 1: watching these parents take issue with you and speak in
Speaker 1: front of the Board of trustees. What's going through your head?
Speaker 1: One thing that's important to note, and it's been reported
Speaker 1: a lot as parents, and I just want to make
Speaker 1: sure I clarify here because there's a lot of media
Speaker 1: reports out there to say these parents had an issue
Speaker 1: and all this. The people that were doing the stirring
Speaker 1: of the pot, by and large, were not parents of
Speaker 1: students that I served. They were phrased as community members.
Speaker 1: Some of them had no kids still in the school district,
Speaker 1: and many of them, most of them had younger kids
Speaker 1: in the school district. And so if you even back
Speaker 1: up prior to that July twenty sixth board meeting, the
Speaker 1: whole school year of twenty twenty one, the people that
Speaker 1: got up there and spoke out loud, they had been
Speaker 1: in this little echo chamber on Facebook saying these same things.
Speaker 1: What were they saying? He is the CRT boogeyman, essentially?
Speaker 1: Look at this presentation that he gave. Look at this
Speaker 1: email that he sent out, you know, referring to the
Speaker 1: George Floyd email. He hates our schools. He's trying to
Speaker 1: destroy our schools, you know. But all these comments were
Speaker 1: happening in an echo chamber that I could see if
Speaker 1: I went in there. But I didn't go in there.
Speaker 1: I'd have people send me screenshots of what things they
Speaker 1: would say, but I didn't have time to fool with
Speaker 1: that because I'm trying to lead a comprehensive high school
Speaker 1: of two thousand students almost two hundred employees through the
Speaker 1: hardest year in school history. So for me, it was
Speaker 1: just nonsense. This is there's not going to be anything
Speaker 1: come of this, and we're just gonna keep it moving
Speaker 1: because we got work to do for our kids. So
Speaker 1: you get to July twenty six, and I'm not even
Speaker 1: watching the board meeting at first, but your wife is.
Speaker 1: Neither one of us were watching the board meeting at first.
Speaker 1: We get a text from one of our friends, you know,
Speaker 1: signaling hey, like, I'm sorry this is going on, like
Speaker 1: you you know, you shouldn't have to deal with this,
Speaker 1: And so I immediately flip open my laptop and you know,
Speaker 1: rewind and going there. And then my wife and I
Speaker 1: are watching this and we're just shook by it all.
Speaker 1: We're just going, what on earth? Because you've got this
Speaker 1: complaint that is baseless and this guy spewing nonsense I've
Speaker 1: never heard from this gentleman email called nothing. Why don't
Speaker 1: we play a clip from that man you're referring to.
Speaker 1: And just to be clear, this person did not have
Speaker 1: children in your school district, right, correct? That guy here
Speaker 1: he is. I was first made aware of mister Whitfield's
Speaker 1: extreme views on race when a concerned friend of mine
Speaker 1: shared with me a letter he sent to parents and
Speaker 1: students in the summer of twenty twenty. In this letter,
Speaker 1: he promotes the conspiracy theory of systemic racism. Later in
Speaker 1: this letter, he goes further, Yes, we really prefer that
Speaker 1: you don't critic particular employee of the district. If you
Speaker 1: have any issues, we sir, encouraging all members of our
Speaker 1: community to become revolutionaries by becoming anti racist. We know
Speaker 1: it will not be in the text, as it has
Speaker 1: been said, the revolution will not be televised, but trust
Speaker 1: that we are here because of this extreme views. I
Speaker 1: asked that a four view of mister Whitfield's tenure in
Speaker 1: our district be examined and that his contract be terminated,
Speaker 1: effective immediately. And so he gets done railing, and it's
Speaker 1: almost like you're going back in time in the fifties
Speaker 1: and sixties, the crowds that would be in the courtroom
Speaker 1: right when somebody was on trial, because this was for him.
Speaker 1: This was putting me on trial, right. You could tell
Speaker 1: that's the kind of he was presenting this case, that
Speaker 1: this guy, this James Whitfield, you know. And he was
Speaker 1: really specific not to use doctor. He would say mister,
Speaker 1: and not that I'm a big use my title. But
Speaker 1: you could tell he was digging at that, right. But
Speaker 1: then at the end you hear fire him. You know,
Speaker 1: you need to get rid of him. People just yelling
Speaker 1: in the background. I was just taking a bag. This
Speaker 1: is not real. Who are these people? I guess it's
Speaker 1: kind of not even me to say I was blindsided
Speaker 1: because I saw this happening behind the scenes, but just
Speaker 1: for it to be so blatant and open that was
Speaker 1: something that I hadn't experienced. And so when you make
Speaker 1: those kind of public inflammatory statements about someone, you can't
Speaker 1: expect someone to then you know, sit there and take it.
Speaker 1: You do respond in a Facebook post shortly after that
Speaker 1: board meeting. Are there any complaints that they raised that
Speaker 1: I have any foundation of truth? If you listen to
Speaker 1: these people carefully, they'll tell you that it's really not
Speaker 1: about critical race theory. They'll tell you that it's about
Speaker 1: they're not okay with someone identifying as LGBTQ. Plus, they'll
Speaker 1: tell you that they want things to go back to
Speaker 1: a time, you know, as one gentleman stated, look at
Speaker 1: ten years ago, how we were doing. Well, what do
Speaker 1: you think the district looked like ten years ago? And
Speaker 1: so I would say, if they have a problem with
Speaker 1: me being an advocate for all kids, celebrating diversity, creating
Speaker 1: an inclusive environment where all kids feel celebrated and not
Speaker 1: just tolerated, all adults feel that same way that we're about,
Speaker 1: you know, breaking down systems that have been in place,
Speaker 1: such as you know, under identification of black and brown
Speaker 1: students for gifted and talented programs. You know, if those
Speaker 1: are the complaints that they have against me, then I
Speaker 1: stand guilty as charged. That's what they really have a
Speaker 1: problem with. It's those things, and those are the things
Speaker 1: that I know to be right and good for all
Speaker 1: people within that organization, especially for our kids. But as
Speaker 1: far as the critical race theory piece of it, that
Speaker 1: has no merit because nobody you talked to any educator,
Speaker 1: especially in Texas, that's just not something that we are
Speaker 1: afforded a liberty of time to be able to do.
Speaker 1: It's not included in our standards. And yet, in spite
Speaker 1: of these criticisms not being entirely or at all true,
Speaker 1: you do receive weeks later a disciplinary letter from the
Speaker 1: district placing you on paid administrative leaves. Shortly thereafter, they
Speaker 1: designed to cut times with you unrelated to the board
Speaker 1: meeting complaints or the face book photos of you and
Speaker 1: your wife which some members of the community took umbrage with.
Speaker 1: Can you explain the content of these photos for the
Speaker 1: people who may not know about them. My wife and
Speaker 1: I on our tenth anniversary, we went to play Ato
Speaker 1: Carmen and there was a group there that was doing
Speaker 1: a wedding shoot at that particular resort, and they approached
Speaker 1: us about doing some pictures, and so we were excited.
Speaker 1: We were there on our anniversary and we got to
Speaker 1: take professional, free photos, and so we were completely clothed
Speaker 1: on the beach. We are a couple deeply in love.
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the photos right now. I love these photos. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. You know, we're actually going to
Speaker 1: be going to Mexico here in a couple of days,
Speaker 1: and I've told my wife, I was like, we've got
Speaker 1: to take some more photos. That's a good idea. Make
Speaker 1: sure you bring the camera. Yeah. Yeah, but I was just,
Speaker 1: you know, it was just yeah, those were the photos
Speaker 1: that you know, some people had issue with. You know,
Speaker 1: in Colleyville, as a twenty nineteen, it has a population
Speaker 1: of eighty seven point nine percent white. It has an
Speaker 1: average meeting income of one hundred and sixty two thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: These photos are quite frankly, two attractive people on a beach,
Speaker 1: a black man and a white woman celebrating their anniversary.
Speaker 1: They are sensual, attractive photos. Do you think some of
Speaker 1: their issues are racially motivated. I've seen my colleagues that
Speaker 1: are not black or not in interracial marriages and seeing
Speaker 1: them take part in you on social media and things
Speaker 1: much more risque, so to speak. And I don't know
Speaker 1: that that's an issue with people in the community, right,
Speaker 1: So why is it an issue with you? That's a
Speaker 1: great question. When I look at those photos, I see
Speaker 1: two people that are deeply in love. But I'm not
Speaker 1: naive to know that there's people in that community. You
Speaker 1: just described the makeup. I know there's some deep rooted
Speaker 1: things there. At that time, I was the first black
Speaker 1: principal at Heritage Middle School. I was also the first
Speaker 1: black principal at that school as well. And so seeing
Speaker 1: a guy come into this space that that's not who
Speaker 1: we are, so to speak, I can see where that
Speaker 1: could have ruffled some feathers, and then taking it a
Speaker 1: step further, my goodness, he's got a white wife. Whatever
Speaker 1: we're gonna do, that's threatening. I know that that is
Speaker 1: threatening to a lot of people. And what I don't
Speaker 1: think a lot of people understand. They think we're further
Speaker 1: alone than what we are. You know, I was born
Speaker 1: about a decade after Loving Versus Virginia. My parents, you know,
Speaker 1: I have a black father, white mother. My parents just
Speaker 1: ten years before my birth, it would have been illegal
Speaker 1: for them to get married. We think that these are
Speaker 1: just vestiges of the past. There are still people living
Speaker 1: that have this deep rooted it's a visceral response to
Speaker 1: interracial marriages. I want to stick with something you just said,
Speaker 1: which is that a lot of people in your community,
Speaker 1: but I think also a lot of Americans around the
Speaker 1: country feel that we are farther along than we actually
Speaker 1: are when it comes to race. And in fact, within
Speaker 1: that Board of Trustees meeting, there are two women that
Speaker 1: relay this very sentiment. Why don't we take a listen.
Speaker 1: We are the greatest nation in the world because we
Speaker 1: base our nation on God and the Bible. We are
Speaker 1: the land of the Free because of the brave. Will
Speaker 1: you please be brave and stand against equity and Marxism?
Speaker 1: The Great Martin Luther King Jr. Said, I have a
Speaker 1: dream that my four little children one day will live
Speaker 1: in a nation where they will not be judged by
Speaker 1: the color of their skin, but by the content of
Speaker 1: their character. Equity goes against what MLK died for. Equity
Speaker 1: only looks at the color of our skin. Our nation
Speaker 1: had fulfilled Mlka's dream, and now we are trying to
Speaker 1: take that away way. No one is being oppressed here.
Speaker 1: All you need is to have is a good Christian
Speaker 1: Judeo work ethic, and you can accomplish anything. Thank you,
Speaker 1: God bless you, and God bless America. Before we move on,
Speaker 1: here's another woman who does have a child in your
Speaker 1: school district. The whole idea of systemic racism, to begin with,
Speaker 1: is a theory or a philosophy. It's divisive, it's controversial,
Speaker 1: and it's ubiquitous, and right now it's very trendy. And
Speaker 1: I think what you just heard there is a recurring
Speaker 1: complaint that parents, especially white parents, have had throughout this
Speaker 1: racial reckoning, which is we are farther along than liberals
Speaker 1: say we are. We started making these changes sixty years
Speaker 1: ago around the Civil rights movement. We've elected a black
Speaker 1: president in Barack Obama, and I don't want to talk
Speaker 1: about race anymore. Although these are the very people that
Speaker 1: despised doctor King, they were the same people that hated
Speaker 1: this man, they are now quoting him. They always want
Speaker 1: to focus on that line of content of the character, right,
Speaker 1: not the race. But they've missed entirely everything he talks
Speaker 1: about systems of oppression, about systemic racism, about how we
Speaker 1: treat the poor, about how we provide economic opportunities for people.
Speaker 1: They skirt all of that and want to try to
Speaker 1: focus on this one sliver of a quote of doctor
Speaker 1: Martin Luther King. But there's also another part of this
Speaker 1: that I want to ask you about, which is that
Speaker 1: embedded in those quotes I just read, is this feeling
Speaker 1: of we need to move on, We have moved on,
Speaker 1: and why do we have to keep talking about this?
Speaker 1: And it strikes me as fascinating that white people even
Speaker 1: now seem to want to control the terms and conditions
Speaker 1: of not just engagement, but how and when we move forward.
Speaker 1: And given that you're part of a community that is
Speaker 1: almost nine white, upper middle class, how have you navigated
Speaker 1: working alongside people from this community and talking with parents
Speaker 1: of this community. Yeah, you know, up till July twenty six, right,
Speaker 1: and even beyond that, parents of Collieville Heritage. I did
Speaker 1: not sit and meet with parents. Parents didn't request to
Speaker 1: meet with me about my views on systemic racism or
Speaker 1: about critical race theory. Like nobody was emailing me about this.
Speaker 1: Nobody was requesting meetings with me about this. This was
Speaker 1: all outside forces that were trying to influence this. So
Speaker 1: that was how I was able to navigate it right,
Speaker 1: because those weren't the people that I was dealing with
Speaker 1: on a day to day basis. The people I was
Speaker 1: dealing with on a day to day basis Buying Large,
Speaker 1: understood the things that we were working towards and knew
Speaker 1: that it's not some evil plan for us to say
Speaker 1: that we want to provide all students with equitable opportunities.
Speaker 1: They try to mix this word equity as if it's pie,
Speaker 1: like I'm taking something from you and giving it to
Speaker 1: somebody else. But these same people will come and sit
Speaker 1: in front of you and say, well, we want our
Speaker 1: students to have or will five or four accommodation for
Speaker 1: the SAT tests for oral accommodation and not understand that
Speaker 1: what you're asking for is essentially equity. They've got this
Speaker 1: misinterpretation of what that word means. It's something to fit
Speaker 1: their agenda. And one of the quotes, the first quote
Speaker 1: you mentioned, there was a lady that talked about God.
Speaker 1: That is another one of the themes throughout this. People
Speaker 1: want to throw God out there. And you know, if
Speaker 1: we've always heard this. Well, we got they're trying to
Speaker 1: take God out of schools, or they're trying to tell
Speaker 1: kids they can't pray in school, which is complete idiocy.
Speaker 1: Like nobody's telling kids they can't pray in school, But
Speaker 1: that's something that they believe. They're on this religious crusade.
Speaker 1: The fact of the matter is, yes, I'm a Christian man,
Speaker 1: I'm leading a school of people that may be Christian,
Speaker 1: they may be Muthlam, they may be Hindu, they may
Speaker 1: be atheists, they may be agnostic, they may be all
Speaker 1: of these different things. I have got to make sure
Speaker 1: I'm providing every single one of them with the best
Speaker 1: absolute experience at school. But for them, and like you said,
Speaker 1: they've said this. What they're about is providing opportunities for
Speaker 1: Christian students. And as a public school, that's just not
Speaker 1: that's not how we roll. Even though you are a Christian, correct,
Speaker 1: I don't talk about my faith at school because that's
Speaker 1: not my position as a public school administrator to talk
Speaker 1: about my faith as a Christian. I'm listening to these
Speaker 1: people talk and I'm thinking about who I follow as
Speaker 1: a Christian Christ and I think out his teachings and
Speaker 1: who he was and who he spent his time with.
Speaker 1: And what I hear from these people is strictly exclusionary.
Speaker 1: Anybody that does not believe the way that we do,
Speaker 1: damn them to hell. That couldn't be further from the
Speaker 1: teachings of Christ. It's bigotry and racism cloats in Christianity.
Speaker 1: You think about it, we tend to be surprised at
Speaker 1: these things and how they come up. The ku Klux
Speaker 1: Klan said they were following the word of God while
Speaker 1: they were born in crosses in people's yards and killing
Speaker 1: people and lynching them right and torturing black people, primarily
Speaker 1: in the South. You know, we have to be mindful
Speaker 1: of these people saying these things and talking about, Oh,
Speaker 1: we just want our kids to be following God. And
Speaker 1: if that's the gud you believe in, we're not. We're
Speaker 1: not seeing the same God. We'll be right back after
Speaker 1: a quick break. It's definitely clear that some people are
Speaker 1: using God as a way to explain their argument. As
Speaker 1: you said, racism and bigotry cloaked in Christianity. And yet
Speaker 1: in spite of these kind of outlandish claims that are
Speaker 1: made in that board meeting, as I mentioned, you were
Speaker 1: dismissed August thirtieth, twenty twenty one. They claimed that you
Speaker 1: were dismissed not for critical race theory or the Facebook photos.
Speaker 1: They claimed you were dismissed because of emails that you
Speaker 1: deleted and other deficiencies in his performance. What emails did
Speaker 1: you delete? I'm not at liberty to discuss anything related
Speaker 1: to interactions with the school district or allegations of the
Speaker 1: school district. You can see what they allayed it in
Speaker 1: my responses in writings prior to this meeting, but I
Speaker 1: can't discuss those per the terms of our settlement agreement.
Speaker 1: So just to be clear for people listening, you've denied
Speaker 1: in statements that there were any deficiencies in your performance
Speaker 1: and that you deleted emails, at least as I understand
Speaker 1: the information coming from me, Sam Fragoso, That's what I
Speaker 1: understand your response to be to those claims. You were
Speaker 1: also given the opportunity to stay at the school subject
Speaker 1: to agreeing to a number of directives, but you decided
Speaker 1: not to take up those directives. I have a feeling
Speaker 1: you can't talk about what those directives are either correct. Okay,
Speaker 1: the long and short of it is, and this is
Speaker 1: in the public domain. You were dismissed for being the principle,
Speaker 1: not because of critical waste theory or the Facebook photo.
Speaker 1: In spite of those claims that we've talked about, they
Speaker 1: pivoted to other grievances. But anyone who's reading between the lines, no,
Speaker 1: it's absolutely about the born meeting, and it's absolutely about
Speaker 1: the Facebook photo. My question to you is, once you've
Speaker 1: made this agreement, how do you explain what happened to
Speaker 1: your kids? To your wife, My wife, my kids, they're
Speaker 1: all familiar with everything that was going on in the background.
Speaker 1: What I hope that my wife, my kids, students, that
Speaker 1: I serve parents, that I serve people that are going
Speaker 1: through these same experiences. What I hope people are able
Speaker 1: to see that just because people say things, you only
Speaker 1: have to respond to your name, not what people call you. Right,
Speaker 1: So you're only responsible to yourself and who you are.
Speaker 1: You don't have to answer to all these claims that
Speaker 1: people are trying to pin on you. And so I
Speaker 1: hope that people are able to see that it's okay
Speaker 1: to stand up and fight for me. It was getting
Speaker 1: legal representation and fighting and that's what we did. And
Speaker 1: you know, We've came to a settlement agreement and that
Speaker 1: will last in through August of twenty twenty three. That
Speaker 1: whole settlement agreement is in the public record. People are
Speaker 1: free to go and look and see what that says.
Speaker 1: Where we issued a joint statement. But the long and
Speaker 1: a short not all the time. When you fight, do
Speaker 1: you get your desired outcome? And your desired outcome was
Speaker 1: to remain principal. Well, my goal was always to be,
Speaker 1: you know, school principle. There would have been nothing I
Speaker 1: would rather do than serve kids. They are my passion,
Speaker 1: that is my heart. Kids are the heart of why
Speaker 1: I do what I do. I want to talk about
Speaker 1: that both in your personal experience, but also within this
Speaker 1: larger conversation the country's having right now about how and
Speaker 1: what we teach in American history when you're removed from
Speaker 1: your post as principal. It comes around the time that
Speaker 1: thirty different states have proposed significant constraints of any substantial
Speaker 1: teaching of America's racist history. Much of that legislation I
Speaker 1: just mentioned has been introduced by Republicans that have entrenched
Speaker 1: themselves inside public school systems around a new culture war
Speaker 1: and their branding critical race theory which you did not
Speaker 1: teach or add to your curriculum. Their branding critical race
Speaker 1: theory as fundamentally anti American, and I guess my question
Speaker 1: to you is what is the path forward to teaching
Speaker 1: kids about the history of America. It is vital if
Speaker 1: we are going to move forward as a nation. The
Speaker 1: only way you can get past something you have to
Speaker 1: confront the harsh realities that have existed in that space.
Speaker 1: In what we have failed to do over time as
Speaker 1: a country is come face to face and confront acknowledge
Speaker 1: in work to repair the harm and trauma that's been
Speaker 1: inflicted on people of color in this country since the inception.
Speaker 1: I get it that there are people in white America now,
Speaker 1: not all white Americans, but there are people in white
Speaker 1: America that confronting this history makes them feel a certain way.
Speaker 1: But that is not for me to alleviate or control.
Speaker 1: Sometimes when you have to confront things that are ugly,
Speaker 1: they're gonna cause you discomfort. They're gonna cause you maybe
Speaker 1: a bit of anguish or stress, if you will, But
Speaker 1: that's all part of growth. And until we become comfortable
Speaker 1: with the uncomfortable, we're gonna be in this same the
Speaker 1: same cycle. What you're seeing now with groups like Moms
Speaker 1: for Liberty, it's a repurpose of the Daughters of the Confederacy.
Speaker 1: If you look back after the Civil War, Daughters of
Speaker 1: the Confederacy came in and they try to what they
Speaker 1: did they didn't try. They rewrote textbooks, they called meetings,
Speaker 1: textbook committees, they informed boards, they made sure that there
Speaker 1: was a certain narrative that was shared about what happened
Speaker 1: during the Civil War and what slavery meant. And so
Speaker 1: we still deal with the vestiges of that to this
Speaker 1: day because in our textbooks the enslavement period is a
Speaker 1: minor footnote. If you look through most state curriculums, dealing
Speaker 1: with a true and accurate history is not a reality
Speaker 1: in schools. And so I find it really, really, really
Speaker 1: ironic that they're saying they do not want this history
Speaker 1: that's going to paint America in this bad light, that
Speaker 1: is going to make people feel guilty or feel discomfort.
Speaker 1: They're saying they don't want that in schools. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, what's being taught in schools is a
Speaker 1: very whitewashed basic history that does nothing for the Umford
Speaker 1: and the lack of acknowledgment of people of color in
Speaker 1: this country. But that's not something that they're worried about.
Speaker 1: They're worried about how this is going to make white
Speaker 1: kids feel. And I've got news for him. White kids
Speaker 1: are ready to have these conversations, like the kids are
Speaker 1: not the problem. This is a way for us to
Speaker 1: hold on to the past that we've seen time and
Speaker 1: time again throughout the course of our history. Anytime there's
Speaker 1: moments of progress, such as the protests in the wake
Speaker 1: of George Floyd's murder, people coming together, you always see
Speaker 1: a backlash. You always see retribution. It is essentially the
Speaker 1: American way. Within your school, how did you find the
Speaker 1: white kids grappling with how this country was changing in
Speaker 1: front of them? We had a black student played on
Speaker 1: our football team that right after George Floyd's murdered I am,
Speaker 1: you know, have been announced as principal. He coordinated an
Speaker 1: effort with the Colleyville Police Department to go down to
Speaker 1: Collegeville City Hall in all march together law enforcement. He
Speaker 1: led a group of students. When I got there, with
Speaker 1: that group of students, there are hundreds of white students
Speaker 1: ready to take this pledge to here we are to
Speaker 1: stand against racism. And so I know that it's not
Speaker 1: the kids. The kids are open and willing and interested.
Speaker 1: They're worried about what's in textbooks. They got access to
Speaker 1: this thing called a smartphone. As soon as they say, hey,
Speaker 1: we don't want you to read this, they're going straight
Speaker 1: to their phone and finding that very thing. You've got
Speaker 1: kids coming home that have heard all their life that
Speaker 1: those Mexican people they're all illegal, right, they're hearing this
Speaker 1: narrative at home. But then they're going to school or
Speaker 1: they're hearing things about the LGBTQ plus community, and they're
Speaker 1: going to school and they have these people in their spaces,
Speaker 1: in their school, in their classrooms, and they're friends with them,
Speaker 1: and they're seeing something completely contrary to what they've been
Speaker 1: led to believe at home. And so when we sit
Speaker 1: at this dinner table, now, me as a student, I'm
Speaker 1: looking at my mom, my dad, my grandma, whoever's there,
Speaker 1: and I'm saying, hey, I know you had this, you
Speaker 1: said this about this particular group. Let me tell you
Speaker 1: about my friend who identifies is this and how much
Speaker 1: they mean to me. And that scares the living hell
Speaker 1: out of people that do not want this country to
Speaker 1: move forward. You brought up that image of going to
Speaker 1: a protest in Collieville, and it reminds me of what
Speaker 1: it was like in June of twenty twenty, protest happening
Speaker 1: around the country, around the world, as diverse of a
Speaker 1: crowd protesting for racial justice as we've ever seen, And
Speaker 1: I'm thinking back to that time now and it feels
Speaker 1: far away. It was a moment of activation. It was
Speaker 1: a moment of hope inside a gloomy pandemic. There was
Speaker 1: a moment where change, which gets thrown around and bastardized
Speaker 1: by every politician who's ever run for office, but it
Speaker 1: actually felt like change was not only possible, but inevitable.
Speaker 1: And in that I think of you for thirty in
Speaker 1: the morning, writing an email, finally, after years of educating,
Speaker 1: finally feeling like your community sees and hears you. You write,
Speaker 1: I will be forty two years old next month, and
Speaker 1: never in my life have I experienced this level of
Speaker 1: support when it comes to issues of race. I cannot
Speaker 1: begin to tell you how encouraging it has been to
Speaker 1: have so many of my white brothers and sisters bucked
Speaker 1: the status quo by calling, texting, unashamedly saying that black
Speaker 1: lives do indeed matter. And as I read that quote
Speaker 1: almost two years removed, I wonder, how does it land
Speaker 1: with you? You know, I think back to that night
Speaker 1: in the sense of of hope and encouragement that I felt.
Speaker 1: You know, I think about the season that I just experienced,
Speaker 1: and I think about what are the similarities. What did
Speaker 1: I see that reminded me of that even in the
Speaker 1: midst of a storm, right, we had students that rallied together,
Speaker 1: not just in support of me, but in support of
Speaker 1: each other, right, support of other students that come from
Speaker 1: marginalized communities. They stood up, They staged protests, they organized
Speaker 1: at board meetings, they spoke at board meetings. The students,
Speaker 1: if we're quite honest, if we go back and look
Speaker 1: at those board meetings, the students were the adults in
Speaker 1: the rooms. They got up, they spoke from their heart,
Speaker 1: They were eloquent, well put together. It was some of
Speaker 1: the adults on that toxic side that sounded like mad people.
Speaker 1: And So what I take from this and how I
Speaker 1: feel now, even in the midst of great challenges, I
Speaker 1: still find hope because the people that are doing the
Speaker 1: huffing and puffing and calling names, and those people have
Speaker 1: no clue, they have no idea, they don't care to know.
Speaker 1: What matters to me is that the people who I served,
Speaker 1: the people who know me, the people who really get it,
Speaker 1: that they're standing up and they're calling it out. And
Speaker 1: that's what I encourage people to do. I think what
Speaker 1: got us into this situation was that it's really easy
Speaker 1: to dismiss the foolishness that we hear from these people.
Speaker 1: Problem is, when you dismiss it, it's almost like enabling it.
Speaker 1: And for me, that's one of the reasons I had
Speaker 1: to speak out. If we sit in silence when these
Speaker 1: types of things are hurled at us, we embolden that behavior.
Speaker 1: And so I take hope in seeing that people have
Speaker 1: spoken up, they've shown up, and they've started to realize
Speaker 1: that they have to take meaningful action if we're going
Speaker 1: to come back these issues. It shouldn't be a surprise
Speaker 1: to us anymore that these things happen when we're on
Speaker 1: the edge of progress. They always happen. Anytime we're on
Speaker 1: the edge of progress and meaningful change, there will be
Speaker 1: a backlash. But I find hope in knowing that people
Speaker 1: seem to be rallying towards the cause, and you know
Speaker 1: they're using their voice to bring about meaningful change. In
Speaker 1: that passage, you said, then you find it encouraging that
Speaker 1: so many white brothers and sisters have made a commitment
Speaker 1: to meaningful action. Do you think when you look around
Speaker 1: your community that they've stuck by that commitment. That's very
Speaker 1: hard to gauge, right without hard data, but just anecdotally,
Speaker 1: what I want to encourage people. It's really easy to
Speaker 1: be fired up and pissed off and showing up when
Speaker 1: there is conflict like actively going on in your community.
Speaker 1: But what happens when it's not front and center in
Speaker 1: front of you. It happens when things are settled, but
Speaker 1: there's still things going on around you, but not necessarily
Speaker 1: in your community. What are you willing to do? Are
Speaker 1: you still actively getting out there and attacking these issues
Speaker 1: and demanding action to make significant change? So to your question,
Speaker 1: you know, while it's hard to measure, I've seen people
Speaker 1: that have been very supportive of me throughout the course
Speaker 1: of my tenure as principal Colleville Heritage, and then throughout
Speaker 1: the course of everything that happened in the community itself.
Speaker 1: They've continued to be fervent advocates for the cause. You
Speaker 1: have this unflappable quality about you. I'm sure people have
Speaker 1: said that before. I've heard that at times. You know,
Speaker 1: you think of a carpenter, somebody that's doing a lot
Speaker 1: of work with their hands. Right, there's these callouses that form,
Speaker 1: and so at some point the things that they're doing
Speaker 1: and the work that they're doing doesn't affect them as
Speaker 1: much because they've got this tough skin that's built up.
Speaker 1: They can withstand these things that are coming at them. Right,
Speaker 1: cold weather, I got it, dry weather, boom, I got it.
Speaker 1: Like I said, I'm a firm believer in God, and
Speaker 1: you know, the things that have happened throughout the course
Speaker 1: of my life, I feel like they've prepared me to stand,
Speaker 1: you know, in the face of whatever comes my way.
Speaker 1: And thankfully, you know, I've never had to stand alone.
Speaker 1: You know, whether it was when my mom was sick
Speaker 1: and dying of cancer, or when I was you know,
Speaker 1: became a teenage father when I was still in high school,
Speaker 1: or when my mom died of cancer right after my
Speaker 1: son was born. You know, all of these moments, there
Speaker 1: was always this support. There was always people that wrapped
Speaker 1: their arms around me, and so I've never forgotten that.
Speaker 1: What I try to do, especially on the heels of
Speaker 1: this is just pay that forward every every chance I get.
Speaker 1: You know, It's why I went into education. I wanted
Speaker 1: to pay that that love and support and encouragement forward.
Speaker 1: Two kids, two teachers who had such an impact on me,
Speaker 1: and so I just try to pay that forward because
Speaker 1: people have helped me develop those those callouses. If you
Speaker 1: will to endure the difficult seasons that we know will
Speaker 1: come throughout life. One difficult season, as you mentioned, was
Speaker 1: the passing of your mother. She died at the age
Speaker 1: of forty of leukemia. And it's my understanding that one
Speaker 1: of her lifelong dreams was to become an educator, and
Speaker 1: it's something she didn't get to do. And when I
Speaker 1: read about that, I couldn't help but think of you
Speaker 1: in this moment, as you and I sit here, an
Speaker 1: educator now not able to educate. How do you reconcile that?
Speaker 1: You know, my mother, I grew up in abject poverty,
Speaker 1: and she went to work every day of a life.
Speaker 1: She worked two jobs when she had to, and she
Speaker 1: never really had that opportunity to finish school. Just based
Speaker 1: on life circumstances, not trying to hear too deep, but
Speaker 1: just things were going on, right, Like what the life
Speaker 1: that we lived. There was a reason we were in poverty.
Speaker 1: You know, I had my father who basically I hold
Speaker 1: no grudges. It is what it is. He's my dad,
Speaker 1: and it is what it is. But the man was
Speaker 1: out in the streets, right he was. He was dealing dope,
Speaker 1: and he was doing dope. And you know, it was
Speaker 1: nights where I had to wrap him up because he
Speaker 1: had come in with his arms bleeding. Right, I'm dealing
Speaker 1: with the blood streaming down his arm. That was the
Speaker 1: kind of life that we lived. And you know, money
Speaker 1: as soon as it would come in, it was gone.
Speaker 1: And so we depended on, you know a lot of
Speaker 1: services from community nonprofits and food stamps and welfare. You like,
Speaker 1: we were fortunate enough to have people that supported us.
Speaker 1: And so my mom, she she went to work every
Speaker 1: single day, but she would never get ahead. And it
Speaker 1: wasn't until right before she got diagnosed with leukemia. Like
Speaker 1: it was right before she she said, I'm going back
Speaker 1: to school. Like she always wanted to be an English teacher.
Speaker 1: And I was so excited for her because I knew
Speaker 1: that was her dream. She wanted to be an English teacher.
Speaker 1: And so it was right after she got admitted to
Speaker 1: school to finish her degree that you know, she got
Speaker 1: diagnosed with leukemia. One of the things that really pressed me,
Speaker 1: you know, when I went through, you know, some of
Speaker 1: the challenges that I faced and finishing my degree. You know,
Speaker 1: my mother, even though she was literally dying, like she
Speaker 1: had poison running through her veins, but I would talk
Speaker 1: to her and she's doing homework. She still wanted to
Speaker 1: finish that degree. It was something that she ended up
Speaker 1: leaving unfinished, but not for lack of trying, right. And
Speaker 1: so her last letter to me that I keep close
Speaker 1: by at the very end, she she says, you know,
Speaker 1: I know sometimes like I get onto you and I'm
Speaker 1: on you about you know, doing your school work and
Speaker 1: all that. She said, I just want you to make
Speaker 1: something of yourself. I want you to go to school,
Speaker 1: get your education, and you know, make something of yourself.
Speaker 1: I know you're going to be able to do great
Speaker 1: and mighty things. And so, you know, I look back
Speaker 1: at that over the course of time, and you know,
Speaker 1: just thinking about where her strength and her spirit has
Speaker 1: been able to push me to do things even in
Speaker 1: her physical absence. That strength of spirit has pushed me
Speaker 1: to do things greater than I've ever imagined. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think about where life has led me and my mother
Speaker 1: and the impact she had on my life is it's immeasurable. Man,
Speaker 1: It's immeasurable. Do you think the reason you still want
Speaker 1: to be an educator is because you also want to
Speaker 1: keep her dream alive? That's a great question. You know.
Speaker 1: My mom was never really about saying, hey, this is
Speaker 1: what you need to do. She always wanted me to
Speaker 1: find my own path, but she knew how much it's
Speaker 1: particularly sports meant to me. Like when I was a kid, again,
Speaker 1: I had coaches that if not for them, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know where I be. So she knew that
Speaker 1: that meant a lot to me. But my mom was
Speaker 1: always just do what you love, Do what brings you joy,
Speaker 1: Do what you're passionate about. But I'll be lying to
Speaker 1: you if I said that. Knowing that she wanted to
Speaker 1: be an educator was kind of like, Okay, I'm going
Speaker 1: to be able to fulfill a dream that was denied
Speaker 1: to her that she wasn't able to achieve because she
Speaker 1: was taken too soon. And so yeah, that was part
Speaker 1: of it. And as I moved forward, right and as
Speaker 1: I step into this next chapter, at the heart of
Speaker 1: who I am as a person, we know how important
Speaker 1: education is to me and serving kids. Is this opportunity
Speaker 1: to step outside of public education and really look at
Speaker 1: a more macro level of things that are going on
Speaker 1: in our society has really sparked. I guess what's really
Speaker 1: been inside all along. It's just that anybody that is struggling,
Speaker 1: anybody that is under the weight of poverty, or of
Speaker 1: an oppressed group, a marginalized group, systemically kept out group,
Speaker 1: I want to advocate for them, you know. I want
Speaker 1: to be part of making life better for them. I
Speaker 1: want to be part of bringing people together to solve
Speaker 1: complex issues. And so for me it might look different
Speaker 1: moving forward. My last question, You talk about anyone struggling,
Speaker 1: and I think back to younger James Whitfield growing up
Speaker 1: in West Texas, struggling as a kid, and on the
Speaker 1: football team. You have a coach named Kevin Carmona, and
Speaker 1: the first day you meet him, he extends his hand
Speaker 1: to you and he welcomes you in and it's the
Speaker 1: first time in your schooling. I think you're in seventh
Speaker 1: grade at this point that you feel you are being seen.
Speaker 1: Kevin Carmona was one of the few black teachers at
Speaker 1: the school, and I have a sense that for many
Speaker 1: kids in your time, in this predominantly white community, you
Speaker 1: have also offered that sense of visibility. And so as
Speaker 1: you move forward after everything that's happened, where you have
Speaker 1: people in your community trying to make you invisible, how
Speaker 1: do you remain seen? I think the way I do that,
Speaker 1: the way we do that specifically as black people. I'm
Speaker 1: talking from that lens right now, is the way that
Speaker 1: we've been shown to do that over time. This isn't
Speaker 1: new for us. This isn't a surprise for us that
Speaker 1: some people would rather shift us to the margins of society,
Speaker 1: dismiss the plight of black people in this country, try
Speaker 1: to quell our voices. This is a playbook that's been
Speaker 1: used time and time again, and what we have to
Speaker 1: look to is the playbook that's been left for us
Speaker 1: by our ancestors, you know. And so I think about
Speaker 1: what they went through and they used to be invisible.
Speaker 1: They're like, no, you're gonna see me. You're gonna see me,
Speaker 1: And so for me, that's in me the blood and
Speaker 1: toil and pain and resilience, enjoy. You know, in the
Speaker 1: face of really some unspeakable odds, people continue to rise
Speaker 1: up in the face of the same things we are
Speaker 1: up against today. That gives me inspiration, That gives me strength,
Speaker 1: knowing that I'm standing on the shoulders of giants that
Speaker 1: came before me. It's gonna be my choice if I'm
Speaker 1: going to retreat into invisibility. There's nobody out there that
Speaker 1: can make me invisible. They can try, but that's up
Speaker 1: to me to make my voice heard and be seen,
Speaker 1: and be front and center and say no, I refuse
Speaker 1: to be invisible, and I stand on the shoulders of
Speaker 1: those people that came before me. There are people counting
Speaker 1: on me to step up and say what needs to
Speaker 1: be said, do the things that need to be done
Speaker 1: to move the needle forward towards progress and meaningful change
Speaker 1: in this country. Well, I want to thank you for
Speaker 1: saying what needed to be said and for fighting the
Speaker 1: good fight. It's my hope that many people, after having
Speaker 1: heard your story here today, join you in that fight.
Speaker 1: I'll be here, ready for it. I appreciate you, Doctor
Speaker 1: James Whitfield, thank you very much, Thank you man. It's
Speaker 1: been a pleasure. Thank you. And that's our show special
Speaker 1: thanks to Patricia Suflida Wilson and of course doctor James Whitfield.
Speaker 1: To learn more about doctor Whitfield and his work, visit
Speaker 1: our website at talk easypod dot com. There you'll find
Speaker 1: our back catalog of over two hundred and fifty episodes.
Speaker 1: If you enjoy it today's conversation, I'd recommend our talks
Speaker 1: with Claudia Rankin, doctor Cornell West, Noam Chomsky, Resmamnikum Representative
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Speaker 1: possible without our incredible team. Talk Easy is produced by
Speaker 1: Caroline Reebok. Our executive producer is Jennic Sobravo. Our associate
Speaker 1: producer is Caitlin Dryden. Today's Talk was edited by Kaitlin
Speaker 1: Dryden and mixed by Andrew Bastola. Music by Dylan Peck,
Speaker 1: illustrations by Christia Chenoi, Video and graphics by Ian Chang,
Speaker 1: Garre Gamber, zach Ian Jones, Ethan Seneca and Laila Register.
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Patrice Lee, Kaylin Ung and shil o'fagan.
Speaker 1: I'd also like to thank the team at Pushkin Industries,
Speaker 1: Justin Richmond, Heather Fame, Miila Belle, Maggie Taylor, Mcolemrano, Maya Knig,
Speaker 1: Carl Migliori, Jason Gambrel, Jacob Weisberg, and Malcolm Cladwell. I'm
Speaker 1: San Fraco, so thank you for listening to this very
Speaker 1: special episode of Talk Easy. I'll see you back here
Speaker 1: on Wednesday for a bonus episode featuring w Kamal Bell.
Speaker 1: Until then, stay safe and solo