Speaker 1: Pushkin. This is Talk Easy. I'm Samforgo, so welcome to
Speaker 1: the show. Today we have a special two part episode
Speaker 1: with actors Melanie Lynskey and Vicky Creeps. As you may remember,
Speaker 1: Lynskey came on this podcast back in the summer of
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. She stars in a new show called Yellow Jackets,
Speaker 1: premiering tonight on Showtime. We catch up with her in
Speaker 1: a little bit, but first, Vicki Creeps. You likely saw
Speaker 1: her opposite of Daniel day Lewis and Phantom Thread back
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen. She played Alma, a waitress turn mused
Speaker 1: for Reynolds Woodcock, the exacting fashion designer played by day Lewis.
Speaker 1: To her credit, Vicki was every bit as compelling as
Speaker 1: her seasoned counterparts, delivering a staggering performance that catapulted her
Speaker 1: into American cinema, but initially she was reluctant to embrace
Speaker 1: this new career. After Phantom Thread was released, she went
Speaker 1: back to Berlin and her two children. That's where we
Speaker 1: enter the story. It was while she was home that
Speaker 1: she received an email from French filmmaker Mia Hanson Love.
Speaker 1: The email contained a script for a film called Bergmann Island. Creeps,
Speaker 1: who became enamored with MIA's work around the release of
Speaker 1: Father of My Children, didn't hesitate, she said recently. When
Speaker 1: I read the script, I knew why she sent it
Speaker 1: to me. I could tell that there was a connection
Speaker 1: between me and MIA's universe in a way that we
Speaker 1: share a certain sense of sensitivity to life, and from
Speaker 1: that sensitivity, Bergman Island was born. The picture is centered
Speaker 1: around a filmmaker couple played by Creeps and actor Tim Roth,
Speaker 1: who visit the Swedish island of Faro, where legendary director
Speaker 1: Ingmar Bergman once worked and lived. The visit part writer's retreat,
Speaker 1: part vacation, is designed to inspire. Of course, inspiration is
Speaker 1: always easier to talk about than to find. Here's a
Speaker 1: clip from a scene early in the film Bergman Island,
Speaker 1: starring Vickie Creeps and Tim Roth. I think i'd be
Speaker 1: setting up here. Who don't you think it's too less beautiful?
Speaker 1: Are this common perfection? I find it impressive, soothing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I didn't realize, you know, writing here, how can
Speaker 1: I not feel like a loser. I'm even afraid to
Speaker 1: sit at a desk right outside. Then a lot of
Speaker 1: people come here to work, students, designers. No one's expecting persona.
Speaker 1: Thank god for that. As a summer unfolds, the lines
Speaker 1: between fantasy and reality begin to blur. Creeps, playing the
Speaker 1: character of Chris, does a remarkable job anchoring the movie.
Speaker 1: She has this quiet confidence about her. Even when the
Speaker 1: character may not know where she's going, you can't help
Speaker 1: but want to go along with her. When we sat down,
Speaker 1: Creeps was about to start shooting a new film in
Speaker 1: which she plays a US Border Patrol agent. That alone
Speaker 1: speaks to her versatility. Whether it's in Bergmann Island or
Speaker 1: recently in Old by M Night Show, Mamelan or The
Speaker 1: Survivor by Barry Levinson, Creeps can shape shift into all
Speaker 1: kinds of characters. We get into that in this conversation.
Speaker 1: We also discuss how life and are dovetailed in the
Speaker 1: making of Bergman Island and why growing up with hippie
Speaker 1: parents in Luxembourg prepared her for the chaos of being
Speaker 1: an actor. This is Vicky Creeps. Bicky Creeps. Yes, you
Speaker 1: start a new movie tomorrow. Where are you at the
Speaker 1: day before starting a new film? Always before I started
Speaker 1: a new film, I'm pretty lost and I feel like
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know why
Speaker 1: I'm here, and in this particular case, for the first time,
Speaker 1: I feel very uneasy and even scared. I'm scared of
Speaker 1: the character and the places I will have to go
Speaker 1: for her. Is fear usually part of the equation beforehand, Yeah,
Speaker 1: But then I think I'm crazy enough to ignore it
Speaker 1: or something. I always wonder why I'm not more afraid
Speaker 1: before I work. Maybe I try not to believe in fear,
Speaker 1: try to concentrate more on the moment and being present
Speaker 1: and just going forth with whatever I decide to do,
Speaker 1: and once I've decided it, to just go. But here
Speaker 1: it's really the first time I have to play a
Speaker 1: character or go to be someone who's a horrible person
Speaker 1: who I actually would hate. Usually you're playing people you
Speaker 1: wouldn't hate, which I assume was the case for your
Speaker 1: character in Bergman Island. And I wanted to begin here
Speaker 1: because it's a film I really enjoyed. It's now available
Speaker 1: for people to see in theaters or on demand. But
Speaker 1: before all that, where were you at in your life
Speaker 1: going into shooting? Before Bergman, I I was even more
Speaker 1: lost than I'm now, because it was not only due
Speaker 1: to the process of work. But it was also in
Speaker 1: my private life because I came back from doing press
Speaker 1: for a Phantom Thread and that movie had been nominated
Speaker 1: for the Oscars. So it was a real whole campaign.
Speaker 1: As you can imagine, that was all new to me,
Speaker 1: and in some ways even traumatizing, just because not because
Speaker 1: anything of what happened was bad, It's just that I
Speaker 1: wasn't prepared and I came from my little fantasy world.
Speaker 1: I was always super dreamy as a person. And then
Speaker 1: you know, and if there's anything you know, not dreaming,
Speaker 1: it's maybe the press world. And it's crazy and it's
Speaker 1: fast and it's loud and it's quick and it's so
Speaker 1: this is where I was before Berkman Island. I didn't
Speaker 1: know who I was. I didn't know what actress I am.
Speaker 1: Now you know now that people referred to me by
Speaker 1: this movie, and you know, also having two children and
Speaker 1: not being with the dad I was, I felt very
Speaker 1: lost and I felt like I had done maybe many
Speaker 1: things wrong. You know, maybe I should be like people
Speaker 1: who stayed together and have children and build houses and
Speaker 1: save money to when they're old, or maybe it should
Speaker 1: have been someone who should have started a career much earlier,
Speaker 1: and who then was famous and would have known how
Speaker 1: to handle the press tour, or maybe I should have
Speaker 1: been more cold and someone who can protect himself better,
Speaker 1: and you know, not even letting it so close. I
Speaker 1: was very, very lost. And then suddenly I got the
Speaker 1: email MIA with the script of Berkman Island, and in
Speaker 1: one way, it felt almost like a inbue in French,
Speaker 1: like a safe life safe you know, these round these
Speaker 1: rings you can throw someone in the water, the life raft.
Speaker 1: But everything then connected to the movie became super chaotic
Speaker 1: the moment they asked me to join the movie with
Speaker 1: maybe three weeks before shooting. So when I got the script,
Speaker 1: I knew I'm in trouble in a way because I
Speaker 1: knew I have to do this and it's like a
Speaker 1: life raft. But also it would mean again being the
Speaker 1: bad not bad mother, but you know, the one who
Speaker 1: goes and does his work again and plans her holidays
Speaker 1: with her kids and everything goes as planned, you know,
Speaker 1: like it seemed like in my life nothing ever goes
Speaker 1: as planned. And what's interesting is that the movie made
Speaker 1: me embrace the fact that you will never plan anything
Speaker 1: and never anything will happen according to plan. Ever, the
Speaker 1: movie centers on a filmmaker couple. It's you and actor
Speaker 1: Tim Roth. You're visiting this Swedish island, Afara, where the
Speaker 1: director Igmar Bergman once lived. Early on in the film,
Speaker 1: there is this conversation about how a woman filmmaker and
Speaker 1: a mother can coexist. It's a conversation that's had on screen,
Speaker 1: and yet it seemed to be playing out offscreen in
Speaker 1: your life. That's exactly what it is so crazy about
Speaker 1: the movies that so many things that are pointed out
Speaker 1: in the film, or that I may be the quest
Speaker 1: of the character, seemed to be happening in my own
Speaker 1: life at the same time. The solution I found was
Speaker 1: I had to take my kids to the island, but
Speaker 1: also the father of the children, who I'm not with anymore,
Speaker 1: you know. So I ended up living in this house
Speaker 1: with my ax and the two children, and it was
Speaker 1: this kind of beautiful chaos you get when you have
Speaker 1: to go along with things and embrace life as it happens,
Speaker 1: not as you plan it. And it did turn out
Speaker 1: as one of the most beautiful vacation holiday experiences for
Speaker 1: my kids. But of course I was still always in
Speaker 1: this inner dialogue with myself. Am I doing the right thing?
Speaker 1: Also being the character who has the same quessions, And again,
Speaker 1: the solution for the character is to let go and
Speaker 1: embrace her own way of doing things, her own way
Speaker 1: of writing, her own way of finding her story. I
Speaker 1: think the same happened to me that I let go
Speaker 1: of all the fear I had and the ideas around
Speaker 1: what kind of actress am I? Now? I'm not the
Speaker 1: one I was before. That's why I love the movie.
Speaker 1: Of course I love the script, and working with me
Speaker 1: I was wonderful. But to say what I loved about
Speaker 1: the movie now is afterwards, when I talk to people,
Speaker 1: I realize myself how deep the movie is. You know?
Speaker 1: But I'm curious when the character of Chris begins to
Speaker 1: reflect parts of your own life, whether it's marriage, motherhood, career.
Speaker 1: At a certain point, is it hard to know where
Speaker 1: Chris the character begins and Vicki, the very real person ends.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm crazy and I didn't get it, But what
Speaker 1: I found to be true in my life is when
Speaker 1: I let go, and I let go of the fear
Speaker 1: of the character impacting Vicki or Vicki impacting the character,
Speaker 1: what happens is not only both worlds can flow into
Speaker 1: each other and can influence one another. But again it's
Speaker 1: easier to divide and they flow. It's easier to divide
Speaker 1: because there's no not so much tension anymore, not so
Speaker 1: much I need to make this work. It has to
Speaker 1: be like this. It cannot be like no. I I
Speaker 1: just stopped worrying about it happening. I just let it happen.
Speaker 1: I always feel like I grow with every movie I do,
Speaker 1: and this one in particular because it happened of two
Speaker 1: years of my life that were very important, two years
Speaker 1: of my life. For one year, I had to go
Speaker 1: and I didn't have a husband yet because we didn't
Speaker 1: know who would play the husband, and they decided to
Speaker 1: still shoot without the other actors. So I spent one
Speaker 1: year wandering around the island on my own. So that
Speaker 1: was quite therapeutic, I think, to walk alone and having
Speaker 1: another year where I then had to meet someone. And
Speaker 1: also nanda Ze soul too. I loved this to a German.
Speaker 1: Why it means AlSi nanda ze song, which means if
Speaker 1: you take things apart and put them again, But it
Speaker 1: means two people talking, as if when you talk with
Speaker 1: someone and you have a real something, you know, like
Speaker 1: a discussion or something you have to talk about. It's
Speaker 1: an outsa nanda ze. So it's putting things apart and
Speaker 1: putting them back together. That's essentially the premise of this podcast.
Speaker 1: There's another word that I know you love. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to butcher the pronunciation, but I think you know
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about, zin zocht and what does that mean.
Speaker 1: Zinzocht is a beautiful word to describe some sort of melancholy,
Speaker 1: but it's not necessarily negative. So it's a word that
Speaker 1: describes the feeling you have for something you feel like
Speaker 1: you've known before and you miss it maybe, or something
Speaker 1: you have never known but you have a longing for it,
Speaker 1: or something is pulling you to something you know is
Speaker 1: out there and you might want to have. You might
Speaker 1: want to go to that yearning for something unknown. That
Speaker 1: sounds like what you must have felt back after high
Speaker 1: school when you go to South Africa and you're volunteering
Speaker 1: as a teacher for children with AIDS, and I believe
Speaker 1: it's there in Mozambique that you have this epiphany about
Speaker 1: something that is still unknown, but you were feeling something
Speaker 1: that that was incalculable or intangible. In that moment, what
Speaker 1: was this? Actually, I was looking at a mountain and
Speaker 1: it wasn't even a famous mountain, a huge mountain, an
Speaker 1: incredible something mountain. It was really just a mountain. It
Speaker 1: could have been a hill. Okay, this is a completely
Speaker 1: mediocre mountain exactly. But there was an energy emanating from
Speaker 1: nature right like coming off There was energy coming off
Speaker 1: the mountain, obviously, like from anything. And I was standing
Speaker 1: in front of the mountain and I was so moved
Speaker 1: by this mountain and I could feel it it in
Speaker 1: my whole body, and I had like goose bumps. And
Speaker 1: you know, I was twenty one and I was like
Speaker 1: so moved by life and the force of nature, and
Speaker 1: I could feel some sort of love energy in me
Speaker 1: and in the world. And I don't know what it
Speaker 1: was because at that point I wasn't sure I was
Speaker 1: even thinking becoming a lawyer. So at that point, suddenly
Speaker 1: I have this epiphany and I think, oh, I know
Speaker 1: what I want to be. I want to be able
Speaker 1: to capture this feeling in the tin or in a
Speaker 1: box or something and then close it somewhere inside of
Speaker 1: me and then take it with me back to Luxembourg,
Speaker 1: where people would never go to Africa to see this,
Speaker 1: and then I can open the box and I can
Speaker 1: share this feeling with people who might never travel to
Speaker 1: this mountain. And then I was like, oh, but that's
Speaker 1: like kind of like acting. It's exactly like acting, but
Speaker 1: it's funny I get I got it from a mountain.
Speaker 1: I mean, other people read books or watch movies. You know,
Speaker 1: people get so concerned about how they find something, what
Speaker 1: changes their trajectory. And yet it seems to me and
Speaker 1: I've done two hundred and fifty plus episodes of this show,
Speaker 1: Things that change your course, you know, they find you
Speaker 1: that's true. You know what it makes me think of?
Speaker 1: There's when we were doing this pres in La we
Speaker 1: had a I think it was a Q and A
Speaker 1: for the Actor's Guild or like, I don't know, but
Speaker 1: it were actors in the room and one young actor
Speaker 1: came and he asked the question. He said, yes, you
Speaker 1: would like to know if I can remember anything I did?
Speaker 1: That makes me think why phantom thread happened? Like he
Speaker 1: wanted to know exactly this, you know, what happened in
Speaker 1: your life that you had this life changing thing? And
Speaker 1: I said, I have no answer for you, but thank
Speaker 1: you for the question because it made me think. And
Speaker 1: I went back to think about it, and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: there's nothing I can think of because nothing I did,
Speaker 1: I didn't go somewhere. I didn't, you know, definitely didn't
Speaker 1: consciously think I was going to work with these people ever,
Speaker 1: or even that they know who I am, you know.
Speaker 1: But then because of the question, I realized it's true.
Speaker 1: It's one thing I remember, and it happened quite close
Speaker 1: to when I got the email for the audition, and
Speaker 1: it was again and it brings us back to Berkman Island.
Speaker 1: It was the first time in my life that I
Speaker 1: let go and I was and what I did in
Speaker 1: my life and has nothing to do with movies maybe,
Speaker 1: but I let go of this dictatorship I had put
Speaker 1: on myself to be this perfect person, you know, the
Speaker 1: good girl, you know, because I had two children quite
Speaker 1: early and early on, I tried to just be someone
Speaker 1: I was not. But I was just doing it because
Speaker 1: I thought, this is being good. You know, if you're good,
Speaker 1: you stay with the person you have children with. You
Speaker 1: have to stay with this person because that's how you
Speaker 1: prove that you are a good person. Which is bullshit.
Speaker 1: You know, I was, I wasn't being me, and I
Speaker 1: was I wasn't honest, and I decided to be honest
Speaker 1: and talk about it and this relationship. There was like
Speaker 1: this moment where I was letting go of things that
Speaker 1: had been holding me down in a place where I
Speaker 1: wasn't me, but where I was trying to be something
Speaker 1: I thought would be good to be. Before you let
Speaker 1: go of this preconceived notion of marriage or motherhood, it
Speaker 1: seemed like you were also having trouble letting go of
Speaker 1: the experience of Phantom Thread and the strange, surreal media
Speaker 1: circuit that followed. I bring it up because you've mentioned
Speaker 1: the film a couple of times now, But after its
Speaker 1: release in twenty seventeen, you retreated back to Berlin and
Speaker 1: said yes to a few independent features. And it wasn't
Speaker 1: until a meal with director Paul Thomas Anderson over Ramen
Speaker 1: that you began to reimagine your future. What happened. This
Speaker 1: was the first time I went back to la because
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, I think you should go back
Speaker 1: to this place. I've only been once and it was
Speaker 1: so weird, and I went back. And also because I
Speaker 1: knew I would like to see Paul again. I met Paul,
Speaker 1: and I remember the raman Is because it was really
Speaker 1: the smallest little restaurant, you know, it was just some restaurant.
Speaker 1: It was not the cool place to be. And in
Speaker 1: the simpleness of this restaurant and in the simpleness of
Speaker 1: our meeting, but he just suddenly said, I think we
Speaker 1: did a good movie. And both we finally we laughed
Speaker 1: about it, and it felt like letting go and releasing
Speaker 1: and accepting at the same time. Why was it so
Speaker 1: hard for you both to admit that? Because if you
Speaker 1: have seen the movie, it's beautiful also, and it's funny also,
Speaker 1: but it's also talking of some poisonous part of human
Speaker 1: relationship in every sense, it's so hard to be together
Speaker 1: as human beings. And on the other hand, were so
Speaker 1: addicted to it, of course, and we need it and
Speaker 1: we wanted and it's beautiful, but it's also katie and hurtful,
Speaker 1: and I think all of the people who did that
Speaker 1: movie all got hurt somehow, Like it feels like we
Speaker 1: did this movie and we came home with this burn mark,
Speaker 1: you know, like you let down your guard. And whenever
Speaker 1: you let down your guard, magic happens, but also you
Speaker 1: can get bruised. But you seem to have this spirit
Speaker 1: about you. You said when I was twenty six, I
Speaker 1: got pregnant. I decided to have the baby because I
Speaker 1: accept everything in life as an adventure. I accept life.
Speaker 1: I couldn't see why you would not accept it. I
Speaker 1: was naive. Yeah, I think it brings us back to
Speaker 1: what you said in the beginning. You know, I lovingly
Speaker 1: call my parents hippies. I don't even know if if
Speaker 1: you would call them this, but it was definitely chaotic household.
Speaker 1: If you grow up like this and you walk out
Speaker 1: your house in the morning and you think, oh, my
Speaker 1: life isn't not like anything I see around. You know,
Speaker 1: it's not like things are put into place, and it
Speaker 1: feels like someone is taking care and putting up a
Speaker 1: structure of family, structure which you then can fit into
Speaker 1: and which is also holding you. You have to embrace
Speaker 1: the adventure, and you have to embrace that something else
Speaker 1: might be taking care of you, or that something else
Speaker 1: might be happening out out there, and that somehow all
Speaker 1: these things are maybe supposed to be like this, because
Speaker 1: otherwise you you go out and you cry because you
Speaker 1: go why Why are my parents not behaving like they should?
Speaker 1: Why why is my house not the way my neighbor's
Speaker 1: house is. Why why is everything in my life so
Speaker 1: different and so crazy and loud? And so? I think
Speaker 1: that's what I did as a child. I turned to trees,
Speaker 1: as I often say, You know, I was. I was
Speaker 1: literally talking to trees because I love them, but also
Speaker 1: because I needed to find something out there that was
Speaker 1: also holding me out of family. You know, it was
Speaker 1: easier to talk to trees than people. Yeah, talking to
Speaker 1: you is okay. You count as a tree. I accept
Speaker 1: you as a tree. You know that's the nicest thing
Speaker 1: anyone ever said to me on this show. Talking to
Speaker 1: you was like talking to a tree. I knew it.
Speaker 1: I knew if I did this show long enough, someone
Speaker 1: would finally say it to me. You have the right haircut.
Speaker 1: You mean the haircut that has not taken a haircut
Speaker 1: in a while. Yeah, long hair. You have the haircut
Speaker 1: of someone who doesn't get a haircut. Yeah, like a tree.
Speaker 1: Where are you, Los Angeles? I'm in Tucson, Arizona. Yea
Speaker 1: for the film. Yeah, you know what I did two
Speaker 1: days ago? So I had a day of shooting training
Speaker 1: and I couldn't believe that I was standing where I
Speaker 1: was standing, doing what I was doing. And then when
Speaker 1: we left the stand, I took it even further, and I,
Speaker 1: you know, as it's out of my sense of adventure,
Speaker 1: as you say, and maybe just because I'm curious and
Speaker 1: for the character also, I said, how can we stop here?
Speaker 1: And there was like a garash sail, because I wanted
Speaker 1: to see people who live there around this shooting stand.
Speaker 1: And we stopped, and I didn't realize that I still
Speaker 1: had my gun on my hoster, like around my hips.
Speaker 1: And I get at the car and the guy who
Speaker 1: comes to me has a gun too, because that's what
Speaker 1: people have here right hanging here on the side, and
Speaker 1: the host it's like, hey, cool, hey girl, you know
Speaker 1: you're like you're like, oh, I don't know, because I
Speaker 1: had many weapons on me. There was also some sort
Speaker 1: of batton and I don't know what, which he thought
Speaker 1: was really cool, and I went like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: it's cool. And then and I looked around and there
Speaker 1: was really nothing to buy. I mean, there were like
Speaker 1: things to do, French fries, you know, or I don't
Speaker 1: know what they were selling, and it was all new
Speaker 1: and I was looking for old stuff and then I
Speaker 1: saw this flag, which I bought. I still can't believe
Speaker 1: I bought it. And I bought this horrible white supreme
Speaker 1: as this flag, and I bought it like someone who's buying,
Speaker 1: if you know what I mean, Like, I just bought it,
Speaker 1: and the guy was like, hey, yeah cool, and I
Speaker 1: was like, hey, yeah cool. It was the weirdest, strange
Speaker 1: experience I've ever had in my life. I'm just imagining
Speaker 1: you in your car going to this groad sale sort
Speaker 1: of in character, out of character, after having bought this horrible,
Speaker 1: repulsive flag. I don't know why, but in my head,
Speaker 1: it just it just made me think, does doing this
Speaker 1: work ever distract you from yourself? Or does it tend
Speaker 1: to lead the places where you learn something more about yourself.
Speaker 1: It tends to lead where I learn more about myself,
Speaker 1: And it even brings me even more into myself, because
Speaker 1: when I go out of myself so far, I realized
Speaker 1: the distance. I can feel the distance, and I can
Speaker 1: see where I'm coming from. So it makes me even
Speaker 1: more realize where I come from because you can measure
Speaker 1: the distance between the person who would sincerely buy that
Speaker 1: flag and the person who's buying the flag for the character.
Speaker 1: I feel how cold my feet get when I get
Speaker 1: into the cold water. But then when I'm out and
Speaker 1: I dry my feet, I feel the tingling, and I
Speaker 1: know my foot has been cold in cold water where
Speaker 1: I usually am not, But the tingling reminds me of
Speaker 1: it and then makes me feel my foot even more.
Speaker 1: That is so good. I'm going to sit with that.
Speaker 1: It's funny. When you entered Bergmann Island, you were a
Speaker 1: woman lost, a mother trying to find her way, thrust
Speaker 1: into a kind of strange situation on an island with
Speaker 1: her ex husband and two children in a film that's
Speaker 1: going in all sorts of directions. But I've been thinking
Speaker 1: about it, and I wonder if you were lost, then
Speaker 1: do you feel sound now? I think I found the
Speaker 1: answer that I will never find the answer or something
Speaker 1: like this. As long as I'm an actor, I will
Speaker 1: try and exist in a place of vulnerability where I
Speaker 1: don't know really where I am. But I think to
Speaker 1: give you an answer. When I came to the island,
Speaker 1: I was alone, and I didn't have this co star,
Speaker 1: and I had my guitar with me, and I sometimes
Speaker 1: I started, you know this, some years ago that I
Speaker 1: would play music but only for my characters, you know,
Speaker 1: just to kind of give them a place to live
Speaker 1: after the movie's done, you know, so they leave me
Speaker 1: in peace and they can go somewhere and stay there,
Speaker 1: you know, almost like a cemetery in the song which
Speaker 1: I write for the character. And here I had my
Speaker 1: guitar again, and I knew that somehow I was ready,
Speaker 1: and I felt like I could play these songs maybe
Speaker 1: someday to someone, not really because I want to be
Speaker 1: heard as this, but because it felt like the songs
Speaker 1: wanted to be heard maybe also, And I never did,
Speaker 1: like it was for years that I was really hiding it.
Speaker 1: And then on the island, suddenly I had a crow
Speaker 1: visiting me and knocking on my window, and I was like,
Speaker 1: what is this crow thing? And every morning it would
Speaker 1: knock on my window, and I looked it up online
Speaker 1: and said that crows come into your life to awaken
Speaker 1: you and to accept the other world, you know, the
Speaker 1: magical world, and is there something in you that needs
Speaker 1: to be heard or blah blah. And I was like, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: it could be the music thing. And then the next
Speaker 1: day I the first time in my life, I had
Speaker 1: took all my courage, and I met this music producer
Speaker 1: who I met on the film, and I played him
Speaker 1: my songs and me liked them, and now I still
Speaker 1: haven't you know, I might record them someday, but it's
Speaker 1: something I'll definitely do. But now, whenever I go somewhere,
Speaker 1: I take my guitar and I play my music. And
Speaker 1: I think that's the best way to say it. You know.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm just still a person. It's still the same
Speaker 1: person as before. And I wouldn't say I know more
Speaker 1: or i'm you know, less lost, but in the being lost,
Speaker 1: I am myself now, you know. And I play music
Speaker 1: when I want to, and I play to people, and
Speaker 1: I'm not afraid of being who I am and showing
Speaker 1: people who I am, even if it's maybe not perfect
Speaker 1: or whatever that is, you know. But so that's I
Speaker 1: think the music is the best way to answer your question.
Speaker 1: If music is the best way to answer my question,
Speaker 1: then perhaps you would want to play something now, yeah,
Speaker 1: why not? Are you serious? I'm really serious? I would
Speaker 1: do it. I see if I can think of a song,
Speaker 1: but I probably can't. You crack open the heart, You're
Speaker 1: learning all of their lights and then you forget new,
Speaker 1: slip away life and out of some out of sight
Speaker 1: and into winner the round of lonely legs because he
Speaker 1: I am. And in the open scene swimming holy with
Speaker 1: broken memory? What if if it killed you? What if
Speaker 1: I do winning is losing? What if that's true? Only
Speaker 1: five peace one lover's hand. Well, that bird never quite
Speaker 1: landed here with me as in the open See, I
Speaker 1: was swimming with booms broken God of the ocean painted
Speaker 1: it all black. And my father once told me there's
Speaker 1: no coming back from life, or from love or from
Speaker 1: all of this noise, all powerful potions made. So we
Speaker 1: go to sleep under the open. Say, where are we?
Speaker 1: Flying loosely with all of things memories? What if I
Speaker 1: told you you were always my man, all of those users,
Speaker 1: water and sund you. I was holding on so tightly
Speaker 1: like a secret song. While you were living your life.
Speaker 1: I was living along out here. I did my best.
Speaker 1: I loved it. So this is from this movie all
Speaker 1: I played this you know woman who we are all
Speaker 1: kind of you know, trying to fit in and just
Speaker 1: be this mother and you know, thinking of what else
Speaker 1: could I do in my life to have a better life,
Speaker 1: And like we're all running all the time, trying to
Speaker 1: optimize our lives where we already have everything. And this
Speaker 1: is kind of what this song is about for me
Speaker 1: at least, I really liked it. And if it's true
Speaker 1: that we're always running, then I just want to say
Speaker 1: thank you for sitting down with me. Creeps, thank you
Speaker 1: very much. That's a good ending. Thank you. That was
Speaker 1: actor Vicky Creeps. You can see her in the new
Speaker 1: film from director Mia Hanson Love. It's called Bergman Island.
Speaker 1: It's available on streaming and v O d X. Up.
Speaker 1: We sit with an actor whose work is always so
Speaker 1: deeply moving and vulnerable. She's in a new series from
Speaker 1: Showtime called Yellow Jackets. It's a story of a team
Speaker 1: of talented high school girls soccer players who survive a
Speaker 1: plane crash deep in the remote northern wilderness. The show
Speaker 1: chronicles their descent from a thriving team to savage clans,
Speaker 1: while also tracking the lives they've attempted to piece back
Speaker 1: together twenty five years later. Starring Lynsky and the always
Speaker 1: excellent Juliette Lewis, Yellow Jackets premieres tonight, November fourteenth at
Speaker 1: ten nine Central on Showtime. After the break, Our Talk
Speaker 1: with Melanie Lynsky. Melanie Lynsky, Hi, say, how are you feeling.
Speaker 1: I'm happy to be here, happy to have you back. Now.
Speaker 1: I looked this up before you got here. In the
Speaker 1: summer of twenty sixteen, we sat in your living room
Speaker 1: and did a podcast together. I think it was episode
Speaker 1: twenty one. I was also twenty one and you were
Speaker 1: thirty nine. It's been five years. What have I missed?
Speaker 1: What has happened? I had a baby who's almost three.
Speaker 1: She's really cute. How did it change you having a kid?
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I'm so close to my siblings and
Speaker 1: I feel so maternal towards them, and I didn't think
Speaker 1: there was any other love possible. People say this and
Speaker 1: it sounds like a cliche, but my hat expanded. It's crazy.
Speaker 1: How has it expanded your heart? Well? I feel it interestingly.
Speaker 1: Like at work, I used to need a little more time,
Speaker 1: like if I was going to have to be emotional,
Speaker 1: I needed a little bit more quiet, Like I would
Speaker 1: always bring an iPod to see it so I could
Speaker 1: be like, okay, not chatting and hanging out right now
Speaker 1: I need to cry. And now it's like right there.
Speaker 1: What would you listen to on the iPod. It's different
Speaker 1: for every movie, and I would never know. I would
Speaker 1: never pick them ahead of time. Sounds so cheesy. I
Speaker 1: would kind of get into care character, and then I
Speaker 1: would make a playlist, and then I would be sort
Speaker 1: of cycling through that playlist, and then eventually one song
Speaker 1: or two songs would stick and become the song I
Speaker 1: listened to for that character, for that character. And now
Speaker 1: that you're a mother, you don't need the song. I
Speaker 1: don't need the songs. It's funny. I think my emotions
Speaker 1: are just like on the surface, I'm probably just exhausted also,
Speaker 1: so but things are very accessible and it's not like
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about my daughter and then like tears will come.
Speaker 1: I just feel I feel like a live, electrical outlet.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's really weird. Yeah, how did that
Speaker 1: translate on this new show of yours? It was good
Speaker 1: to be able to do that because a lot was
Speaker 1: asked of me. The show Yellow Jackets is about a
Speaker 1: group of teenage girls in nineteen ninety six who are
Speaker 1: on their way to Nationals, a soccer tournament, and their
Speaker 1: plane crashes and they're all stranded in the wilderness. So
Speaker 1: that's half of the show. Is about their survival, their
Speaker 1: connections and all that stuff, and the other half of
Speaker 1: the show is twenty five years later, and it's about
Speaker 1: four of the survivors and how the trauma has impacted us,
Speaker 1: how we're trying to get on with our lives and
Speaker 1: succeeding in some ways and failing in others. So this
Speaker 1: show toggles back and forth between twenty one and nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety six. New Jersey, yes, yes, New Jersey. Well, wherever
Speaker 1: they crash, I guess it's sort of undefined. But these
Speaker 1: girls go to school I think in a town in
Speaker 1: New Jersey. Yeah, and they're all on this very elite
Speaker 1: soccer team. Yeah, which is not the role you play,
Speaker 1: but it's a younger version of yourself, and you play
Speaker 1: the woman twenty five years removed from this exactly plane crush. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So what was your entry point here? Well, I read
Speaker 1: the script and I just felt very, very interested in
Speaker 1: how I wish there was a bit of wood than complicated,
Speaker 1: because people say complicated all the time. There's something about
Speaker 1: this person that's very unapologetic and not in a cool way,
Speaker 1: not like I don't give a fuck, but she's not
Speaker 1: trying to be a nice person. In a way that
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed. But she's also not a nasty person.
Speaker 1: It felt like a role that was written for a man,
Speaker 1: even though it wasn't. She's very repressed emotionally. She doesn't
Speaker 1: want to feel anything. She does her best to try
Speaker 1: not to feel anything. And I'm so emotional right now
Speaker 1: in my life that it felt like a very interesting
Speaker 1: internal conflict in playing this character. Because there are times
Speaker 1: where I'd be off camera for somebody and tears would
Speaker 1: be pouring down my face, and when I would be
Speaker 1: on camera, I didn't want that for this character. I
Speaker 1: didn't want her to be able to have tears pouring
Speaker 1: down her face. I just felt like I was constantly
Speaker 1: trying to like push it down, push it down, which
Speaker 1: I think is a really good conflict for I think
Speaker 1: it's what she's going through. I watched the first episode
Speaker 1: and I felt that internal tug of war that's happening.
Speaker 1: Oh good, okay, And I wondered how the hell someone
Speaker 1: got to that place as an actor, And now it's
Speaker 1: clear it was actually happening. It was actually happening. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like she's much better at controlling things, and
Speaker 1: there's like a genuine toughness to her that I don't have.
Speaker 1: You seem tough to me, I seem tough. I'm resilient.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's a better word. But I'm not like, don't
Speaker 1: fuck with me like I don't. I mean, yeah, I
Speaker 1: was in shock when you walked in here, and that's
Speaker 1: the first thing you said to me, was don't fuck
Speaker 1: with me. I mean I felt like I had to
Speaker 1: just based on last time, right, Yeah, so because it
Speaker 1: went so badly. It was it badly last time, and
Speaker 1: it was such a massive embarrassment. So I just felt like,
Speaker 1: here I am, don't fuck with me, and I like
Speaker 1: the courage that you had to come back for a
Speaker 1: second time despite how badly it went the first terrible. Yeah, infamous,
Speaker 1: this comment you have around unapologetic characters. It's something you
Speaker 1: were thinking about when we first sat down. Oh really, yeah,
Speaker 1: why don't we take a listen. It's been easier for
Speaker 1: me to explore certain things in the last few years.
Speaker 1: I've been able to access things emotionally that used to
Speaker 1: be harder. I've had an easier time being unlikable, unlikable
Speaker 1: in quotation marks in characters, you had an easier time
Speaker 1: being unlikely and in the last few years. Yeah, now
Speaker 1: I can. I'm like, I don't give a shit if
Speaker 1: you would think she's nice, So whatever, how do you
Speaker 1: feel listening that? It's funny to think, I know exactly
Speaker 1: the time in my life. I was seeing a very
Speaker 1: particular therapist for a long time, and she was very
Speaker 1: big on like toughening me up and getting me to
Speaker 1: like embrace anger and stuff like that. It's just funny
Speaker 1: to look back and think, like that was a thing
Speaker 1: that I really was struggling with, and now it's just
Speaker 1: there's such a freedom to play someone who's not always agreeable.
Speaker 1: When did the switch happen inside of you? I think
Speaker 1: while I was seeing that therapist and I started to
Speaker 1: kind of assert myself a little bit more in my
Speaker 1: personal life, and I realized people were okay, people still
Speaker 1: liked me. I could be quite assert of at work
Speaker 1: if I didn't agree with a particular note, a piece
Speaker 1: of direction, I've always been good at arguing it. And
Speaker 1: then I guess also when I did I don't feel
Speaker 1: at home in this world anymore. That character lived in
Speaker 1: that place so completely that any sort of like oh
Speaker 1: is this okay? Really left me. In that performance, I
Speaker 1: didn't realize how often I just was going along just
Speaker 1: in little ways, little ways in big ways. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I just started to be like, actually, it doesn't really
Speaker 1: work for me. It was good, and I'm really glad
Speaker 1: now that I have a daughter that that's how I'm
Speaker 1: living my life and she doesn't have a mother who's like, oh, okay.
Speaker 1: You know, if I'm remembering our past conversation, that agreeableness,
Speaker 1: it seems like something that hearkens back to you as
Speaker 1: a kid, the quote you have. I couldn't talk to kids,
Speaker 1: I couldn't play the games they were playing. I just
Speaker 1: felt like an alien. And I was watching Yellow Jackets
Speaker 1: last night and I was brought back to that anxiety
Speaker 1: intention as you see these teenage girls wrestling with each
Speaker 1: other emotionally, and I was then brought back to you
Speaker 1: finding yourself as a teenager on the set of Heavenly Creatures.
Speaker 1: There is an interview from nineteen ninety six by the
Speaker 1: Irish Times. Here's what the article said. Equally scary from
Speaker 1: the outside is how Winslet describes the intensity of the
Speaker 1: relationship she developed with her co star Melanie Lynsky. She said,
Speaker 1: Melanie is like the left side of my body, Melan
Speaker 1: I have the exact relationship in terms of communication and
Speaker 1: love that Pauline and Juliette had from the minute we
Speaker 1: saw each other. When the film ended, Windslett says she
Speaker 1: could hardly bear to return to England because I meant
Speaker 1: leaving Lynsky. You're right, Yeah, it just made me emotional
Speaker 1: to hear that, And it feels like such a long
Speaker 1: time ago. It was such an intense relationship. Who was
Speaker 1: so so so close. I didn't imagine like a world
Speaker 1: in which we wouldn't be that close forever. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm surprising myself by how emotional and feeling. But see,
Speaker 1: it's always like on the surface, right now, it seems
Speaker 1: like I brought you back two things, that time and
Speaker 1: the time that has passed since then. Yeah, and also
Speaker 1: that relationship was so meaningful to me. It was such
Speaker 1: a huge relationship in my life. That is how we
Speaker 1: felt to each other. It's just weird because I don't
Speaker 1: know her now, I have no relationship with her, and
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, wow, we really were that for each other.
Speaker 1: It's so funny. I think it was like bigger than
Speaker 1: I could comprehend at the time because I was just
Speaker 1: so young, and I'd never hit therapy or anything like that.
Speaker 1: I don't think I even knew the things that I
Speaker 1: was harboring that I needed to release, Like I was
Speaker 1: kind of like, imagine being so angry at your mother.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you had this experience. I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel it. We're so predictive of our parents while
Speaker 1: we're still living with them. I was, and in my
Speaker 1: siblings or were there's this thing where you're just like,
Speaker 1: everything's fine, and then you leave the house and you're
Speaker 1: a bit like, oh wow, Well, part of it is
Speaker 1: that you have to keep living with them and survive. Survive. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you got to get through. You don't want to exacerbate
Speaker 1: the conditions any worse than they are now or then. Exactly.
Speaker 1: But wait, why did you read me that passage? Did
Speaker 1: we go off track? No? Because to me, what I
Speaker 1: was reminded of in Yellow Jackets is that when you're
Speaker 1: a teenager, in this case teenage girls, the relationships means
Speaker 1: so much. I wondered how growing up on a film set,
Speaker 1: being that teenager, not on a soccer field but on
Speaker 1: a sound stage, and then forming this relationship with Kate
Speaker 1: at that age, the intensity of that remind me of
Speaker 1: the show. Yeah, oh gosh, for sure, it's funny. I
Speaker 1: never because I have so many friends from my early
Speaker 1: life who I'm still very close with, such such close friendships,
Speaker 1: and I always think of those girls now women. When
Speaker 1: the film ended, Heavenly Creatures, where did you think your
Speaker 1: life was going to go after that? You know, everybody
Speaker 1: around me was being very very cautious and just saying, like, well,
Speaker 1: that was fun. You got to be in a movie,
Speaker 1: and there were so few opportunities in New Zealand. There
Speaker 1: were people who would do a movie and get a
Speaker 1: lot of acclaim and be wonderful and then not work again.
Speaker 1: I just kind of thought, oh, I need a backup plan.
Speaker 1: But my backup plan was to go to university and
Speaker 1: study film and theater. I didn't have another play was
Speaker 1: all I ever wanted to do. I knew that it
Speaker 1: was something that I loved to do, and I knew
Speaker 1: that I could access emotion, and I knew in the
Speaker 1: moments when it was working. But in terms of like
Speaker 1: a career, I was not thinking any further than once
Speaker 1: the movie ended. I'm wondering, now that you've made all
Speaker 1: these films and shows and you're at this point in
Speaker 1: your career. It is a strange time to be making
Speaker 1: film and television in the world. After the last eighteen months,
Speaker 1: we've had, not to mention the ongoing union problems and
Speaker 1: a whole bunch more. How are you thinking about acting
Speaker 1: right now? The moments where you're actually acting. It's something
Speaker 1: that I always will love and love to do making
Speaker 1: a show, going to work. You know, like you just
Speaker 1: see with all the union stuff, there's so many changes
Speaker 1: that need to be made. I feel like the contract
Speaker 1: that just you know, they said, oh, we've made all
Speaker 1: these changes. It's just nothing concrete, it's nothing real. I
Speaker 1: think now was the time that they need to truly
Speaker 1: make changes. It's absolutely crazy. You've been more vocal than
Speaker 1: most actors I've seen about this kind of feel like
Speaker 1: I wrote one tweet, I just keep thinking like I'm
Speaker 1: just so tired all the time. I've just keeping like, oh,
Speaker 1: I need to post another thing. And then it feels
Speaker 1: kind of performative even though it's not. I mean it
Speaker 1: and I feel it, and I want to show solidarity.
Speaker 1: Why do you feel it's performative. I'm just worried that
Speaker 1: it looks like, oh, here's this actor going to Instagram
Speaker 1: and being like, I don't like it, guys, you know,
Speaker 1: And then people have this idea that all actors, like
Speaker 1: people who I know who've done this. People in the
Speaker 1: comments are like, well, why don't you use your millions
Speaker 1: of dollars to pay people? People have this idea that
Speaker 1: all actors have millions of dollars, which is so insane.
Speaker 1: It's just weird to me how fire people will go
Speaker 1: to protect corporations. People get angry at actors for pointing
Speaker 1: out bad working conditions, and then they're like, you're one
Speaker 1: of the Hollywood elite. But what you're doing when you
Speaker 1: have the argument is you're saying like Netflix shouldn't have
Speaker 1: to pay, or Warner Brothers shouldn't have to pay or
Speaker 1: whoever is paying the salaries of these people, Why are
Speaker 1: you so invested in, like a corporation not having to
Speaker 1: pay more money? And you're asking this one individual who's
Speaker 1: done a post saying like the people I work with
Speaker 1: should be paid more. You're saying, why don't you pay them?
Speaker 1: People just have this anger and a misunderstanding of how
Speaker 1: much actors get paid. Yeah, like middle class actors, is
Speaker 1: that what you are? I would think so yeah. I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel very lucky that I've been able to make
Speaker 1: a living. But it's not like millions of dollars or
Speaker 1: millions of dollars, you know what I mean, Like, I
Speaker 1: feel very grateful, especially globally, when you look at how
Speaker 1: people live in the world, there's nothing I can complain about.
Speaker 1: I just think people have this idea that everyone has
Speaker 1: endless amounts of money if you've ever seen them on
Speaker 1: the screen, and you, Melanie, feel like you're in this
Speaker 1: kind of unwinnable situation where you feel passionately about the
Speaker 1: unfair working conditions, but to express that passion, you're worried
Speaker 1: about a kind of backlash to it. I mean kind of.
Speaker 1: I also just don't want it to just seem like
Speaker 1: putting something on Instagram that just feels a bit like
Speaker 1: here's how I'm standing up for it. But then it's
Speaker 1: silly because in my work, I do stand up for
Speaker 1: the crew, I do stand up for people as hours
Speaker 1: I do things. I feel like fifty percent of my
Speaker 1: jobs should be trying to make the Cruis day easier.
Speaker 1: There shouldn't be any self indulgent takes. You should try
Speaker 1: to get it as quickly as possible. You should show
Speaker 1: up on time, You should know your lines. You know,
Speaker 1: for those listening who don't work in film or television,
Speaker 1: can you explain the conditions that you find to be
Speaker 1: untenable in the workplace. Sometimes the day will be like
Speaker 1: fourteen hours long, which I think is too long of
Speaker 1: a day to be working, and people say frontline workers
Speaker 1: work that long. I understand that there are people who
Speaker 1: do incredibly difficult jobs and work insanely difficult hours. I
Speaker 1: do think we should be able to have a conversation
Speaker 1: about our people in the film and television industry are treated.
Speaker 1: I think people think it's like a glamorous job. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of manual labor for a lot of people lifting, pulling,
Speaker 1: climbing on things, and then people in here and makeup,
Speaker 1: people in wardrobe pas. There are whole groups of people
Speaker 1: who have to be there two hours before that day
Speaker 1: even begins and an hour afterwards to wrap out and
Speaker 1: then not to me. And if you're leaving a location,
Speaker 1: the camera trucks have to wrap out. That takes time.
Speaker 1: People are exhausted. People have to drive themselves to and
Speaker 1: from work long distances. It's dangerous and people get really
Speaker 1: burnt out, and like on the last job I was
Speaker 1: doing one of the pas, I knew he and his
Speaker 1: wife had been trying to get pregnant. She was pregnant,
Speaker 1: and he was like, Oh, I'm just hoping I get
Speaker 1: to go to the first ultrasound. And I was like,
Speaker 1: just go to the first ultrasound, like to say I
Speaker 1: need that day, and he's just like, oh, I don't
Speaker 1: feel like I can do that. I just felt like,
Speaker 1: it's such a huge event in this person's life that
Speaker 1: he's been waiting for for such a long time, and
Speaker 1: you should just be able to be like, this is
Speaker 1: really important, and people should have the humanity to say like,
Speaker 1: of course, people are treated like their families don't matter.
Speaker 1: People are treated like their lives don't matter a lot
Speaker 1: of the time, like they're expendable. Sorry, I feel like
Speaker 1: I started ranting a little bit, but it's not ranting
Speaker 1: because I don't think enough people are actually talking about
Speaker 1: it on a microphone. It's one thing to post, but
Speaker 1: for people to actually hear the stories. The people that
Speaker 1: don't work in film and television, which is most people,
Speaker 1: they hear about this peripherly. But growing up as an actor,
Speaker 1: I wonder how you were taught in terms of the
Speaker 1: US and them, between those on screen and those behind
Speaker 1: the scenes, those conditions that you came up in Do
Speaker 1: you feel they're different now? Do you feel there's more
Speaker 1: of a conversation about how actors interact with crew, the
Speaker 1: dividing lines between above the line below the line. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I've never had a dividing line, like a
Speaker 1: lot of the people who have become closest with on
Speaker 1: productions have been crew people who have made friends with
Speaker 1: Also on Heavenly Creatures, everybody would get together at the
Speaker 1: end of the day and watch the dailies, like every
Speaker 1: single member of the crew, so it felt like everyone
Speaker 1: was as important as each other. But you do see
Speaker 1: mostly producers and people like that treating people pretty badly.
Speaker 1: Sometimes there is a sense from some people. I haven't
Speaker 1: seen it from very many actors. I've seen it from
Speaker 1: a few actors, but not many. I just don't understand
Speaker 1: people making as action like oh, I'm in a position
Speaker 1: of power in this exchange. It's just so weird. Do
Speaker 1: you have hope that these conditions will improve, Yes, But
Speaker 1: I do think there needs to be something like legally
Speaker 1: binding people need to be able to retire from the
Speaker 1: film industry with enough money to live on. But I
Speaker 1: just think it's time. I think if they need to strike,
Speaker 1: they need to strike. I think that story you told
Speaker 1: helps a lot about a prospective father who's saying, I
Speaker 1: need to go do this, yeah, but he doesn't feel
Speaker 1: like he can say I need to How many other
Speaker 1: jobs in the world would you not be able to say, oh, hey,
Speaker 1: can I have like two hours on Monday? Right? And
Speaker 1: yet in your own life, now that you're a mother,
Speaker 1: how have you balanced your career in all this? Well,
Speaker 1: when I got pregnant, I was so excited to be
Speaker 1: pregnant and so paranoid. I didn't work for my entire pregnancy.
Speaker 1: I did one episode of Joe Swanburg Show Easy, I
Speaker 1: did one day on Easy, and I was for my
Speaker 1: entire pregnancy, and then I didn't work for like seven
Speaker 1: months afterwards, which how lucky am I to be able
Speaker 1: to not work for eighteen months? And then the next
Speaker 1: thing I did was Missus America and it was very
Speaker 1: very hard with an infant, And so after Missus America,
Speaker 1: I've just been very careful, Like I asked a lot
Speaker 1: of questions of people, what's going to be there for me.
Speaker 1: How are you going to help me? And then of
Speaker 1: course there's a COVID and we didn't do anything for
Speaker 1: a year. What were you thinking about in that time
Speaker 1: in the pandemic. I mean, I felt so worried for people.
Speaker 1: I felt so worried for people losing their jobs, Like
Speaker 1: if people were okay, I started donating to a lot
Speaker 1: of food banks and charities to help you no kid
Speaker 1: hungry and stuff like that. I felt very worried for
Speaker 1: the world personally, Like I feel very privileged to be
Speaker 1: able to say this, But it was a nice time
Speaker 1: for my family. But then it was an emotional time.
Speaker 1: I got pregnant again and then I lost the pregnancy
Speaker 1: and it was like shitty and it was a really
Speaker 1: hard recovery. So at first it was this kind of
Speaker 1: like dreamy bubble we were in and then like another baby,
Speaker 1: and then I had to go through It's also it's
Speaker 1: not fun going to the doctor in the middle of
Speaker 1: a pandemic, and especially when you're going to like two surgeries,
Speaker 1: and I had to, like there's a lot of horrible
Speaker 1: stuff that happened after I lost the pregnancy, So it
Speaker 1: ended up being like miserable a wonderful time to a
Speaker 1: miserable time, and then it's gone on for so long
Speaker 1: as circle back into a wonderful time. Making Obviously I
Speaker 1: didn't know. No, I haven't spoken about I haven't said anything,
Speaker 1: you know, I've done to my friends. But I just
Speaker 1: think it's a good thing for people. I feel like
Speaker 1: people don't talk about it enough, and it's very common.
Speaker 1: How did you get through that? I don't know if
Speaker 1: I have. Honestly, I don't know if I have. I
Speaker 1: think I'm holding onto it. I'm trying to get through it,
Speaker 1: but I don't think my body has finished grieving it,
Speaker 1: like I think your body kind of hangs onto things
Speaker 1: like emotionally, I'm like, oh, okay, enough time has passed
Speaker 1: and I should be done with it. But I'm just not.
Speaker 1: It's like really really hanging around. I think as I
Speaker 1: got pregnant, while I was still breastfeeding, hormonally, it just
Speaker 1: my body was like little and I instantly gained a
Speaker 1: lot of weight that it's just still on my body
Speaker 1: like it's pregnancy weight even though it's been a year.
Speaker 1: And that is a strange manifestation that I've just had
Speaker 1: to try to make peace with them. Just trying to
Speaker 1: be kind about it now and just be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you're going through something. I'm trying to force talking to
Speaker 1: my body, like I'm weird of but you know, I'm
Speaker 1: trying to force you to be okay with something that
Speaker 1: you're not okay with. Like I think my body was
Speaker 1: really in shock, and I think I was really emotional
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh God, how is this going
Speaker 1: to be the next time someone close to me is pregnant?
Speaker 1: And instantly my sister in law got pregnant and my
Speaker 1: brother's wife got pregnant, and I just felt joy for them.
Speaker 1: I felt absolute joy for them, and that I was
Speaker 1: really relieved. I was like, okay, good, I'm glad I
Speaker 1: don't have like resentment or like oh I don't have
Speaker 1: my baby. You know, just by the way, I did
Speaker 1: not think I would be coming here and talking about
Speaker 1: just taking a tin. I hope you're okay with it.
Speaker 1: I'm okay with it. Okay, I'm okay with anything you're
Speaker 1: okay with Yeah, I'm okay with them. Yeah. But part
Speaker 1: of the weird thing and like recovering from something like that,
Speaker 1: it's just people are starting to speak about it more.
Speaker 1: But it's just not really talked about. And I don't
Speaker 1: think people know what's appropriate in terms of their own
Speaker 1: emotional reaction to it. Why isn't it talked about. I
Speaker 1: think that there's so much guilt and mom shaming, and
Speaker 1: when you're pregnant, everybody has an opinion about what you
Speaker 1: should be doing. You know. The first thing my doctor
Speaker 1: said to me was, this is not your fault. There's
Speaker 1: nothing that you did, and it's still like a weird
Speaker 1: little voice in your head that's like, well, what if
Speaker 1: it is something I did? And I think people have that,
Speaker 1: and I just think also it's very personal and it's
Speaker 1: strange to talk about. I think people don't know how
Speaker 1: to respond to it. People don't know what's an appropriate
Speaker 1: thing to say in response to that kind of loss,
Speaker 1: and so they either minimize it or they ignore it,
Speaker 1: or I just think the more people talk about it,
Speaker 1: the easier it's going to be for people in the
Speaker 1: future who goes through it. Well, I'm grateful your talking
Speaker 1: about it, and I hope you don't feel like I've
Speaker 1: ignored it or I don't no, no, no no. You
Speaker 1: approach everything with like a really empathetic curiosity that I
Speaker 1: think is really beautiful. Was that true five years ago? Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was really impressive. It's a very fine line to
Speaker 1: walk where you're sort of like pushing people to open
Speaker 1: up more, but you're not pushy and you don't feel
Speaker 1: like someone's being invasive. That's tough. You're really amazing at that.
Speaker 1: I probably do it differently now than I did then.
Speaker 1: You seem more relaxed now, I think, thank god. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but then think about what Chagos your life was in
Speaker 1: at that time. I mean, you were like about to
Speaker 1: transition to a new place, and like you were very
Speaker 1: you did see you're a very like calm person, but
Speaker 1: you did seem like you're in the middle of something,
Speaker 1: a major life event. I was in the middle of moving.
Speaker 1: I was twenty one. Yes, we had never met before. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we were doing it in your living room. I would
Speaker 1: have gone somewhere I didn't have any Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: there's like an ease about you now, thank god. Before
Speaker 1: we go, Yeah, let's play a clip from the end
Speaker 1: of that conversation. Okay, from twenty sixteen. If you could
Speaker 1: tell yourself at sixteen something, now, what would it be.
Speaker 1: I think it would be You're fine, Just you're fine.
Speaker 1: You're fine, Like, stop at stop looking for the person
Speaker 1: who is going to prove to you that you're wonderful,
Speaker 1: or trying to make your body look a particular way.
Speaker 1: And you know, I had this idea like, if I
Speaker 1: ever weigh this much, then I'm going to be happy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I had a lot of eating issues, a lot of
Speaker 1: issues around relationships and trying to find my happiness from
Speaker 1: external things. Weirdly, I never had a thing with my
Speaker 1: work where I was like, if I get to this
Speaker 1: level of success, I'll be because my work has always
Speaker 1: been too personal to me. I think I've always needed
Speaker 1: it for different reasons. But yeah, I just I wish
Speaker 1: I had not wasted so much time trying to get
Speaker 1: other people to make me happy. Oh my voice, it's
Speaker 1: hard to listen to yourself. So that was you at
Speaker 1: thirty nine giving advice to your sixteen year old self.
Speaker 1: Now you're forty four, you have a kid. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: we do this again in five years, what do you
Speaker 1: want to put on record in this time capsule? Now?
Speaker 1: Are we going to do this again in five years?
Speaker 1: Why not? Yeah, let's just keep doing it every five
Speaker 1: years until I die, and then you can interview after
Speaker 1: my deaths. You can interview my daughter if you want,
Speaker 1: keep going because you're going to live a lot longer
Speaker 1: than me. Why would you say that because you're so
Speaker 1: much younger than me. Doesn't just make logical sense. It's
Speaker 1: not that much younger. You're almost twenty years younger than me.
Speaker 1: That's very That's a lot. It's not that much time.
Speaker 1: I think it's a lot of time. Okay, it's a
Speaker 1: lot of time. That is the thing I've been thinking
Speaker 1: about now that I have a child is just like,
Speaker 1: oh my god. Time. Like I used to just be like, ah,
Speaker 1: all right. People would say, oh, there's technology where now
Speaker 1: you can live to a hundred and I would be like,
Speaker 1: who would want to? But I just this child is
Speaker 1: such a little miracle. I want to see every moment
Speaker 1: of her life if I can. The thing I would
Speaker 1: want to remember from this time is I feel like
Speaker 1: there's going to be a point where my daughter is
Speaker 1: not as snugly and loving as she is. She comes
Speaker 1: up to me so many times a day and says,
Speaker 1: I love you so so so so much and hugs
Speaker 1: me and she goes, this is too tight and it's
Speaker 1: really cute. And that's the thing I keep telling myself
Speaker 1: that you need to record it so you can watch
Speaker 1: it in the future. And she's like, oh, get out
Speaker 1: of here and close the door, you know, because there
Speaker 1: will be a time where she's sick of me. But
Speaker 1: right now it is like a lot of love. Maybe
Speaker 1: in five years, let me do this again. She'll be
Speaker 1: sick of you. Maybe she might be and I'll be like, Oh, God,
Speaker 1: wasn't that great. That's I feel about the stalk. Elni Linsky,
Speaker 1: thank you for your time, thank you for having me
Speaker 1: so great, And that's our show special thanks this week
Speaker 1: to Madeline Merits, Heidi Lapata, Brett Levine, the teams at
Speaker 1: IFC and Showtime, and of course Melanielinsky and Vicky Creeps.
Speaker 1: You can watch Melanie and Yellow Jackets on Showtime every
Speaker 1: Sunday at ten pm. Eastern Bergman Island starring Vicky Creeps
Speaker 1: is available now on streaming v o D. You can
Speaker 1: find links to all of this and more in our
Speaker 1: show notes at talk easypod dot com. There you'll also
Speaker 1: find a back catalog of over two hundred episodes. If
Speaker 1: you enjoy today and recommend some conversations with folks like
Speaker 1: Julia Lewis, Nick Gofferman, Julie Delpy, Numi Rapas, Titus Burgess,
Speaker 1: Laura Dern, Matthew McConaughey, Porna, Jacanathan, Steven Soderberg, and Holland Taylor.
Speaker 1: To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
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Speaker 1: do so at talk easypod dot com slash shop. Of course,
Speaker 1: the show would not be possible without our incredible team.
Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Jennick Sobravo. Our associate producer is
Speaker 1: Caitlin Dryden. Our lead editor is Andre Lynn. Our managing
Speaker 1: editor is claris Ki Vara. Today's Talks We're edited by
Speaker 1: Kaitlyn Dryden and claris Ki Vara. Mixed by Ben Tolliday,
Speaker 1: illustrations by Christian Chanoe, music by Dylan Peck, Video and
Speaker 1: graphics by Ian Chang, Derek Gaberzak, Ian Jones, and Ethan Seneca.
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Patrice Lee, Kaylin Ung, Shilo Fagan, Nikki Spina,
Speaker 1: Callie Seringis, and of course the team at Pushkin Industries.
Speaker 1: I'd also like to give a special thanks to Tim Moore,
Speaker 1: our engineer out of York, recording here in Law, So Angeles, California.
Speaker 1: The show is produced by Caroline Reebok. I'm San Fragoso.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Talk Easy. I'll see you
Speaker 1: back here next week with Buffy Saint Marie. Until then,
Speaker 1: stay safe and so long.