Speaker 1: Pushkin. I knew that I was a creative person because
Speaker 1: I lived in my head a lot. I daydreamed a lot.
Speaker 1: I imagined people's lives a lot. I would just look
Speaker 1: at a person. I look at every detail about them,
Speaker 1: how they walked, how their expression was, the shoes they
Speaker 1: were wearing, this and that, and I would imagine their
Speaker 1: love life, what their apartment smelled like. You came into
Speaker 1: this life with this juggernaut of whatever you are. But
Speaker 1: sometimes these creative mechanisms were survival mechanisms. That was Juliette Lewis.
Speaker 1: I'm San Fracoso and this is Talk Easy. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the show. Hey everyone, I'm a Sana Fragoso. This is
Speaker 1: Talk Easy. I hope whoever you are, wherever you are,
Speaker 1: you're safe and sound and taking care of yourself and others.
Speaker 1: I'd like to assume if you're listening, you're indoors. For
Speaker 1: those of you who must work away from home right now,
Speaker 1: thank you for doing what many of us cannot and
Speaker 1: would not, from the hospital workers to the grocery store clerks.
Speaker 1: I suspect you're a little too busy to be listening
Speaker 1: to this podcast, but nevertheless, thank you. If you are
Speaker 1: a young person who believes they are immune. Please go
Speaker 1: back inside and do what you normally do, TikTok until
Speaker 1: your heart's content. I promise it will be okay. As
Speaker 1: you can probably tell by that last sentence, I just
Speaker 1: learned what TikTok was. Don't worry about it. Let's just
Speaker 1: move on. It's a strange time to be doing a podcast,
Speaker 1: especially one like ours. But here we are. Ten days
Speaker 1: ago I recorded this conversation with actress Juliet Lewis. It
Speaker 1: feels like ten years ago now. I can't tell if
Speaker 1: time is moving slow or fast, or if I've just
Speaker 1: been watching way too much Colombo. It's probably the Columbo anyway,
Speaker 1: You've likely been watching Juliet for years now. She came
Speaker 1: to prominence in the early nineties with films like Natural
Speaker 1: Born Killers, Cape Fear, What's Eating Gilbert Crape, Basketball, Diaries
Speaker 1: From Dusk Till Dawn. Basically, if there was a good
Speaker 1: film made in the nineties, Juliette was probably in it.
Speaker 1: And it's here where our episode begins. In this strange
Speaker 1: period where Juliet starts working and has to navigate life
Speaker 1: as a teenager while building a career in movies. If
Speaker 1: you're new to the show because of last week's episode
Speaker 1: that was a conversation I had with doctor Ashish Jah,
Speaker 1: the director of the Harvard Global Health Institute. I want
Speaker 1: to welcome you here to the podcast. We don't typically
Speaker 1: have long form conversations with medical experts, but we do
Speaker 1: have long form conversations as we continue making the show
Speaker 1: in this moment where this virus has radically impacted all
Speaker 1: of our lives, we're going to do our best to
Speaker 1: stay with you, to alternate between timely conversations with health
Speaker 1: experts and journalists and authors with episodes like this one
Speaker 1: with Juliet. She's an actor and some of the most
Speaker 1: vital pieces of film and television over the past thirty years.
Speaker 1: And yet as you'll hear, we try to have a
Speaker 1: different dialogue that's a little more reflective. And it's my
Speaker 1: hope with this show to offer some light this week
Speaker 1: and the next and however long this thing goes on.
Speaker 1: For everything feels precarious and scary and uncertain right now,
Speaker 1: So we're going to try to keep doing this with you,
Speaker 1: for you every Sunday. It certainly helps me feel more
Speaker 1: sane to do it, and I hope it makes you
Speaker 1: feel just a little more sane listening to it. So,
Speaker 1: without further ado, here is Juliet Lewis. Juliet Lewis, Hi,
Speaker 1: how are you feeling. I'm like a lot of days.
Speaker 1: We're surviving. We the collective. We Holy shit, there's a
Speaker 1: lot going on. Can I I go back to something
Speaker 1: that got you through a moment in your life? I
Speaker 1: wanted to actually start the whole podcast here. Oh god,
Speaker 1: there's a song that means a great deal to you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I just wanted to listen to it together. Ah,
Speaker 1: I know, and it's gonna be do you really? Yes?
Speaker 1: You got everything she needs. She's an artist. She don't
Speaker 1: look back. She's got everything she needs. She's an artist.
Speaker 1: She don't look back. She can take the dog out
Speaker 1: of the nighttime and paint the day time black. You
Speaker 1: start out standing, proud to steal, hoot anything she sees you.
Speaker 1: Will start outstanding, proud to steal, hoot anything she sees you.
Speaker 1: Wander peekings, do hooky hole down upon you knee. She
Speaker 1: never stumbles, she's got now please do fall? She stumbles?
Speaker 1: She got no, please do fault. She's nobody's child. The
Speaker 1: law can touch you at Paul. I love it. How
Speaker 1: much power he's giving this woman and I needed to
Speaker 1: hear that when I heard this song. How did you
Speaker 1: know I was going to play that song? Well, because
Speaker 1: I had mentioned it recently. I mentioned a few songs
Speaker 1: out loud that are very key songs. Because sometimes music
Speaker 1: I listen to obsessively, it's probably not fully natural. Um
Speaker 1: do it? I do it too? Yeah, okay, good. If
Speaker 1: you're a fellow tweaker with music. If I like a song,
Speaker 1: it will play three hundred times in a day, You'll
Speaker 1: just be looped and then roommates will say, please, we're
Speaker 1: begging you. I know you like Stevie Wonder, but you
Speaker 1: need to stop. It's psychotic, and I just it's good
Speaker 1: for writing for me, and yeah, and it's good for
Speaker 1: mental stability. Yeah. Where were you at when this song
Speaker 1: came into your life and meant something? I was twenty two.
Speaker 1: It was such a turning point. I was finally facing
Speaker 1: the overwhelm of what's this? What's the metaphor being on
Speaker 1: a train that's not stopping of success that I didn't
Speaker 1: understand just in the movie business, Like, there was a
Speaker 1: run there from night ten to twenty one where I
Speaker 1: worked with the Autours. Is it Autours? Yea, huh? Have
Speaker 1: great American cinema of our time, the greatest directors. I
Speaker 1: wrote this down, this exact thing down there, and I
Speaker 1: wrote our tours down because you have you know, Oliver Stone,
Speaker 1: Martin Scorsese, Woody Allen, all in a period and it's fascinating.
Speaker 1: Lossa Holstrom who had just done My Life as a
Speaker 1: Dog was it my love as he was a special
Speaker 1: so he did what's even go a great you know.
Speaker 1: And then there's people in between where the movies didn't hit,
Speaker 1: so like Nora Ephron I worked with her and Steve Martin.
Speaker 1: That was a comedy I did right after A natural
Speaker 1: one Killers It Nuts. Yeah, that wasn't successful, But timmy,
Speaker 1: I was trying to do what I love is character
Speaker 1: work and not you know, different genres I like to
Speaker 1: live in now at the same time I was nineteen nineteen,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. Whatever that is for anybody, But they're
Speaker 1: huge growth periods and the responsibility of that kind of
Speaker 1: what's the word maybe attention, Yes, thank you, that kind
Speaker 1: of attention The thing about and you'll hear other people
Speaker 1: talk about fame. I lost my anonymity in that time
Speaker 1: is um is, it'll exacerbate anything that's sitting within you,
Speaker 1: it'll blow it up. So yes, So if you have,
Speaker 1: if you like some people who turn mean with it,
Speaker 1: maybe they were someone was mean to them in childhood
Speaker 1: and so they're becoming the thing that oppressed them. I
Speaker 1: don't know, we could get deep in that, but a
Speaker 1: lot of people, normal people feel undeserving. You feel unworthy,
Speaker 1: undeserving kind of a y me and you and the
Speaker 1: good thing. My family didn't like. My parents were so lovely.
Speaker 1: My dad, who's also an actor, never changed, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Because people change around you too, because
Speaker 1: they don't know how to deal with this attention now
Speaker 1: for their new their friends. It's odd. Did you feel unworthy? Um? Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah I didn't. I didn't know what to do
Speaker 1: with it because in my greatest wish I would be
Speaker 1: a healer, like if I could be a healer. And again,
Speaker 1: these things come from childhood. Maybe there was something you
Speaker 1: couldn't heal or you wanted to fix something you know
Speaker 1: at all. But also in art, there's can be a
Speaker 1: really like when I listened to the cure when I
Speaker 1: was young, Even though that's like brooding and melancholy and dark.
Speaker 1: There's a synthesis of emotion that was so powerful the
Speaker 1: cure disintegration. That record for me was was my record
Speaker 1: during a time. So my thing is even if you
Speaker 1: do dark movies or art, it can be it's that
Speaker 1: thing where people get out of themselves. So I was
Speaker 1: aware of the benevolent qualities of being an artist, but
Speaker 1: I had no capacity to heal anything within myself or understand.
Speaker 1: I was really not able to articulate myself too. I
Speaker 1: think communication is so key to even deal with emotion, right,
Speaker 1: I wasn't a communicator of emotion. I was just a
Speaker 1: young girl. I mean maybe some young girls can talk
Speaker 1: about themselves that I could not. I was not this way.
Speaker 1: Were you quiet? Yeah? I was super I guess they'd
Speaker 1: use the word brooding. I was super brooding. It's hard
Speaker 1: to imagine us. No, I know because people I've been
Speaker 1: where I could sort of process and articulate my self
Speaker 1: and my experiences. Now I'm forty six, so I do
Speaker 1: have learned something, thank god, But no, at the time
Speaker 1: is super internal, internalized. And yeah, and then I did
Speaker 1: get stuck with drugs, which was a terrible recipe. When
Speaker 1: someone is in pain or retreated or introverted is just
Speaker 1: the most worst thing, most worse not English, and now
Speaker 1: this is all my bad grammar as part of who
Speaker 1: I am. No, it's just the worst thing. So at
Speaker 1: twenty two, I quit drugs and meaning just self medication period.
Speaker 1: You know, I started as an avid pot smoke or morning,
Speaker 1: noon and night, that kind of thing. And I was
Speaker 1: always trying to like, no, but I should be good,
Speaker 1: and I should be straight, and I should be able
Speaker 1: to deal with my emotion. But I just couldn't. You know.
Speaker 1: When I read about those years of your life, the
Speaker 1: first thing I think of is what I was like
Speaker 1: at seventeen, eighteen, nine, twenty. And I think it's true
Speaker 1: of most people. They're really challenging years. You're changing every
Speaker 1: three months. Yeah, you're a radically different person. Yes, if
Speaker 1: you go away to college or you go away at all,
Speaker 1: you probably have some freedom for the first time you
Speaker 1: try drugs. Most people do, or most people I knew
Speaker 1: Yah school did. And you had to do all of
Speaker 1: that in conjunction with being in a movie directed by
Speaker 1: Martin Scorsese, an acting opposite of de Niro. You know,
Speaker 1: I just can't imagine being eighteen, you're like, okay, so
Speaker 1: here's a career. And also here's being a person that's
Speaker 1: doing drugs because you're eighteen and trying shit. And also,
Speaker 1: by the way, by the time you turn nineteen, you're
Speaker 1: going to be someone else. All of that and you're
Speaker 1: learning to pay your rent and wouldn't even add that. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And the thing with those movies because I had a
Speaker 1: real organic or what's it or pure connection to my job.
Speaker 1: It was like, cool, here's my job, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to do really good in this scene today. You know,
Speaker 1: I'd like psyched myself up for things prepare. So that's
Speaker 1: the that relationship was really interesting and special, my creative,
Speaker 1: creative work. And then outside though, there's pressures because I
Speaker 1: was an oddity. I wasn't I wasn't fame. I wasn't
Speaker 1: even like straight fame. I don't even know what you'd call.
Speaker 1: I was like the weird one, you know what I mean. So,
Speaker 1: so I was the strange fame is what we call it. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: I was the great sabotager because I had these opportunities.
Speaker 1: I had, like a Vogue cover, try sabotage. I was
Speaker 1: just I hated I hated the importance. I'll tell you wait,
Speaker 1: but what a very quickly I was. Oh, I was
Speaker 1: trying to say that I slowly got the pressure how
Speaker 1: important it was to behave and function well. Like when
Speaker 1: I got nominated for an Oscar. I wish someone would
Speaker 1: have sat me down, go this, this is how this works.
Speaker 1: The studio is going to launch a campaign, they're going
Speaker 1: to take out ads. They're very thrilled their stars are
Speaker 1: being recognized in their film, so they're gonna, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, So it'd be helpful if you walk
Speaker 1: the walk for the team. But I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: I was still trying to go, well, who am I?
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to be me and this is false,
Speaker 1: like you're you're you know the Fiona Apples speech when
Speaker 1: she was a nineteen and she accepted an award and
Speaker 1: she's like, this is fake. Find your own truth. You know,
Speaker 1: she's getting an award. But that's that. There's those people
Speaker 1: who rack that way, and then there's other young people
Speaker 1: who are just conditioned for showbiz. I don't know, I'm
Speaker 1: not terrifying. Oh it's terrifying. And it's more often the
Speaker 1: case today, but you see people sort of reclaiming their
Speaker 1: mental health and this and that later on because they realize,
Speaker 1: oh shit, I sort of lost myself and in this machine,
Speaker 1: I molded myself for the assembly line, and now when
Speaker 1: I'm on the other side of it, I have no
Speaker 1: personality and no distinct features. That's it. And you're like,
Speaker 1: who am I? And that's where you go on journeys
Speaker 1: and go hiking and you really take the time in stillness.
Speaker 1: How did you botch this whole vote? Oh? That's hilarious. Okay,
Speaker 1: So again someone they're telling me magazines were important. I
Speaker 1: was like magazines, like, who gives a fuck about being
Speaker 1: on the cover of a magazine? Again? Not what I
Speaker 1: grew up conditioned. I had this odd non conditioning. You know.
Speaker 1: If anything, my parents, and it's something I relish now,
Speaker 1: is their ability to revolt against the man. Like my mom.
Speaker 1: We were brushing our teeth with baking soda when we
Speaker 1: were kids because she was hipped to floride. Growing up,
Speaker 1: I was knew floride was put in our water by
Speaker 1: the government. So my mom, you know what I'm saying her?
Speaker 1: Even the health had a politic um Where am I?
Speaker 1: Oh my god? So the Vogue, Shoot, they said this
Speaker 1: is a cover try and I was like, what, Oh,
Speaker 1: I resented it. Do you listen to it? It's like,
Speaker 1: we don't want to give you the cover. We're gonna
Speaker 1: you're gonna do a shoot and then we'll decide, yeah,
Speaker 1: if you'll be on the cover. Then they do this
Speaker 1: with some magazines. How I sabotaged it. I picked a
Speaker 1: photographer just that I was comfortable with that I had
Speaker 1: worked with before. That's clearly not really Vogue cover material.
Speaker 1: So I was always like trying to pull my own way.
Speaker 1: And Anna Winter came by the shoot. Oh, and then
Speaker 1: the other sabotages. I wouldn't wear any of the clothes
Speaker 1: the stylists recommended. I would just go super goofy, and
Speaker 1: my style even early on was sort of an anti style.
Speaker 1: In any case, Anna Winter came by, and I don't
Speaker 1: think she was like this girl's not Vote govern material.
Speaker 1: I'm sure I didn't make it, you know, I think
Speaker 1: you ended up all right. I wrote down something you
Speaker 1: said earlier today when I was preparing in this period.
Speaker 1: The thing that fascinates me that I keep going back
Speaker 1: to is that there is such a juxtaposition between the
Speaker 1: interior lives of your characters that are fully formed, dynamic,
Speaker 1: interesting people, and then on the outside the exteriors of
Speaker 1: your own day to day life. Yeah, what was the
Speaker 1: balance like between those two and that time. Well, that's
Speaker 1: the thing is I was so trying to find I
Speaker 1: didn't have a routine, and any artist actor usually that
Speaker 1: early on you're just discovering your conviction, your passion, your dedication,
Speaker 1: what you have to give in your work. So it
Speaker 1: becomes all about that discovery, so that when you're not working,
Speaker 1: you're not developing as a human being, you know, social
Speaker 1: skills or whatever. I wasn't anyway. I have friends of
Speaker 1: that time who like nurtured relationships who they worked with.
Speaker 1: I didn't even nurture working relationships. It was weird. I
Speaker 1: was such a loner. It was really from how I
Speaker 1: grew up. I was just as kind of a learner.
Speaker 1: That's the one thing I regret and later on after
Speaker 1: like I took care of myself and I didn't take
Speaker 1: things for granted, and as much my working experiences and
Speaker 1: I you know, you learned that the quality of life
Speaker 1: is how much you engage with others or checking in
Speaker 1: and caring about the world around you and other people,
Speaker 1: not just your own, you know, self imposed a sort
Speaker 1: of narcissism. It's a reverse narcissism, even though it could
Speaker 1: be self loathing. I was just talking to my brother
Speaker 1: about it. There's two spectrums of being self obsessed. There's
Speaker 1: the egocentric I'm the greatest and this that, and then
Speaker 1: there's the other like I'm nothing and nobody in all
Speaker 1: my problem? You know that thing? Since like, how do
Speaker 1: you just get on that and just connect with people?
Speaker 1: But I forgot what you just asked and you've answered
Speaker 1: it perfectly. You do this thing, though, and I noticed
Speaker 1: that even in the mari An episode you did, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that you'll answer something, you'll actually give a very interesting,
Speaker 1: dynamic answer, and then you'll get to the end of
Speaker 1: it and you'll say, I don't know if I even
Speaker 1: answered your question. I was wondering, why do you do that?
Speaker 1: I don't know, Well, because in doing this, I want
Speaker 1: to do the thing that we've agreed to sit down
Speaker 1: and do, which is kind of an interview and you
Speaker 1: ask them questions. But along the way, I think the
Speaker 1: way my brain was this thing. So many things are
Speaker 1: linked up. Yeah, it feels like pinball, Yes, well, it
Speaker 1: feels like that in my mind doesn't very much pinball.
Speaker 1: Looking back on it, do you feel like you took
Speaker 1: that patch of time for granted, like those opportunities for granted? Yes,
Speaker 1: oh my god. Well, for instance, you're just in it.
Speaker 1: You don't know to the relish every second. Like Cape Fear.
Speaker 1: I would have been up when when Marty Scorsese was up,
Speaker 1: if I just sat next to him, I would have
Speaker 1: watched everything he did, just because I want to direct
Speaker 1: this movie, I wrote, You know what I mean? I
Speaker 1: would have gleaned more? Is it glean diamonds? Were you
Speaker 1: surprised when that happened? What happened when you got that role? No,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you the role getting No, I wasn't. I
Speaker 1: was like, give me the freaking role already, because it
Speaker 1: took a very long time because I kept auditioning. So
Speaker 1: by the time I got I was like, oh, finally, finally, jeez, well,
Speaker 1: how many hoops do I have to run through? For
Speaker 1: you people? It was this kind of youthful I joke.
Speaker 1: My youthful cockiness in my ability worked for me, thank goodness.
Speaker 1: Meaning I hadn't seen Taxi Driver. I think I finally
Speaker 1: watched Goodfellas before I did the thing. My point is
Speaker 1: I didn't know to be intimidated or that I was
Speaker 1: working with the greats of cinema. You're just in it.
Speaker 1: When you're a kid and older people say, you know
Speaker 1: this is all gonna whip by and you're gonna be
Speaker 1: old soon. You know, enjoy it's the same when you're
Speaker 1: I was in summer camp. I didn't know I was
Speaker 1: going to wake up one day and miss my childhood,
Speaker 1: that I can't go to summer camp anymore. I did.
Speaker 1: I had a dream about it. That's when I knew
Speaker 1: my youth was over. Is that true? Yes, I had
Speaker 1: a very vivid dream when I was twenty. It was
Speaker 1: during that time, maybe twenty two, where I woke up.
Speaker 1: In the dream, I was trying to convince the camp
Speaker 1: counselors that I could still be a camper, and I
Speaker 1: used to. I went to the sleepaway camp called Riverway
Speaker 1: Ranch Camp, and the counselors are like, m, maybe you
Speaker 1: could be a camp counselor, but you can't be a buccaroo.
Speaker 1: They named each department with kids. There was like the brancheros,
Speaker 1: and I was like, what wait, a camp counselor, you
Speaker 1: mean the older people. So the whole dream was me
Speaker 1: trying to convince them I could still go to the
Speaker 1: summer camp. But I woke up really like, holy shit,
Speaker 1: I can't go to summer camp. Like it was literally
Speaker 1: a funny revelation. It was hilarious. You can't be a buccaroo,
Speaker 1: the earnestness in which you said that, no, and like
Speaker 1: do the weaving. We did the arts and crafts with
Speaker 1: a stick, and you weave this yarn and he did archery.
Speaker 1: It was just the best sort yeah, oh yes, oh
Speaker 1: and took for grantup. Meaning now I became an obsessive
Speaker 1: picture taker, not just because it's on our phones, but
Speaker 1: because I didn't even save. This is the biggest thing
Speaker 1: that upsets me. I didn't save my Cape Fear scripts
Speaker 1: with my notes on it. I didn't save natural work
Speaker 1: killers when I wrote a scene on a hotel note paper,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I didn't know it. No,
Speaker 1: And I remember cleaning, thinking I'm doing a good thing
Speaker 1: by cleaning out my room or whatever. I'm like, uh,
Speaker 1: not knowing these would be gems in my lifetime. Things
Speaker 1: you'd want to creative gems, Yes, special creative moments. Now
Speaker 1: you can. Yeah, your father was an actor in so
Speaker 1: many films and done television shows. What was his response
Speaker 1: to what was happening when your career was taking off?
Speaker 1: Because I know you said once that he was a
Speaker 1: man of contradictions that as he entered midlife he started
Speaker 1: collecting knives, but he actually started out in modern jazz dancing,
Speaker 1: and so he's someone who was so multifaceted. Ah, my
Speaker 1: dad is so strange. He probably was finding himself for
Speaker 1: not even finding himself, he's well reinventing. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but did he see that you were having a hard time? Me? Oh?
Speaker 1: So at this time. This is very much when you
Speaker 1: leave home and you don't you know, you're not that
Speaker 1: connected to your parents. But my dad, of all his
Speaker 1: kids and not just me, is always proud of anything
Speaker 1: they do. I think his kids are like his favorite people.
Speaker 1: And with me, yeah, he knew I was going through
Speaker 1: a hard time. I mean I let him know, and
Speaker 1: I think he, you know, wouldn't know how to help.
Speaker 1: But we had different times where he's tried to help
Speaker 1: me in my young life, and I try to help
Speaker 1: him later in life as well as we do with
Speaker 1: our parents when it when the roles reverse. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of specific times. You know, I
Speaker 1: was just like working and then in relate my relationship
Speaker 1: and home and this um. But yeah, he was definitely
Speaker 1: there when I needed him most. At fifteen, I believed
Speaker 1: you left home and moved in with actress Karen Black,
Speaker 1: who's incredible. In thinking about her and this period of
Speaker 1: your life. I wanted to watch this clip with you.
Speaker 1: It's Karen delivering a monologue in the film The Great
Speaker 1: Gatsby from nineteen seventy four. I was on a train
Speaker 1: to New York. Seek has been night damas sitting out
Speaker 1: the segue. Yet it dress suit and patent leather shoes,
Speaker 1: and I could see he was a real gentleman. I
Speaker 1: couldn't keep my eyes off him. Every time he looked
Speaker 1: at me. We had to pretend to be looking at
Speaker 1: the advertisement from his head. When we pulled into the station,
Speaker 1: he was next to me and his white shirt front
Speaker 1: was pressed against my arm. I said, well, I have
Speaker 1: to call the policeman, but he knew I was lying.
Speaker 1: I was so excited when I got into the taxi
Speaker 1: my head was swimming. I fella thre some very tiny,
Speaker 1: cold little fish. I was swimming in my things. Well,
Speaker 1: I keep thinking was I keep thinking, you can't live forever,
Speaker 1: you can't live forever. That was from forty sixty years ago,
Speaker 1: and I think, I'm just curious, where do you see
Speaker 1: Karen's influence on you today? I know, it's so funny
Speaker 1: as you grow. I can't explain it. I want to
Speaker 1: draw like circular diagrams in front of you. But the
Speaker 1: cyclical aspect of life, or the cycles and the seeds
Speaker 1: that are planted early on that you're like, ah, that's
Speaker 1: that thing that's now Yeah, yeah, it's coming back, and
Speaker 1: if you're hip to it or you're mindful of it,
Speaker 1: you can sort of catch the wave and sort of
Speaker 1: get some revelation. But Karen, for me, I didn't know
Speaker 1: it at the time that if you just took us
Speaker 1: and we didn't know each other very much, would be
Speaker 1: the I don't know, the word spawn is very Why
Speaker 1: am I saying that? Is that not larva? That's a
Speaker 1: terrible word. I mean, you guys are kindred spirits. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would. I would be the daughter of her style.
Speaker 1: It's just it's really individual. But there's a few people
Speaker 1: I do feel like that, and I don't didn't necessarily
Speaker 1: know them in childhood. But Karen is special because there
Speaker 1: was a time in my life because people ask me
Speaker 1: if I went to school and this and that, and
Speaker 1: there are key moments in my life where I was
Speaker 1: learning the craft, so to speak. And there was a
Speaker 1: moment I did discuss this somewhere but where we were
Speaker 1: playing charades, and I felt like Karen anointed me. It's
Speaker 1: very much this moment because she I made something up.
Speaker 1: I was doing an improv and then she went, oh
Speaker 1: my god, Julia, you know, like this fantastical and I'm
Speaker 1: like ten, And the way she's reacting was it made
Speaker 1: me feel you know, in snow White when or no
Speaker 1: Cinderella when all the little but who to do it?
Speaker 1: And you have like a big ball gown. Her reaction
Speaker 1: to me made me go, what do I possess a gift?
Speaker 1: And what is this gift? You know? But she very
Speaker 1: much gave me that discovery or that feeling that she
Speaker 1: talked to you about what it's like to do this
Speaker 1: as a job in a life. No, that's the thing
Speaker 1: I didn't get. I also probably came off very self assured,
Speaker 1: you know, very what's it laconic? You know, teenagers can
Speaker 1: be intimidating. I know, yeah, I'm even intimidated by them.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I didn't get advice like, hey, you know, save
Speaker 1: your money kid, or whatever the advice. So I don't remember.
Speaker 1: When I was starting to work, it was more the
Speaker 1: grown ups in my life was sort of just showed
Speaker 1: by example and how what it's like to be creative
Speaker 1: and inventive and alive and enthusiastic. So Karen and my dad,
Speaker 1: they both had a sense of enthusiasm for what they did,
Speaker 1: and I felt that was something I was trying to
Speaker 1: cultivate in myself and failing when I was younger, Like
Speaker 1: not being enthusiastic. I was so because I was so melancholy. Girl,
Speaker 1: you weren't enthusiastic, as I said, I was kind of brooding.
Speaker 1: But that's it's all just muzzled. You know, you discover
Speaker 1: your true self over and over and my truest self
Speaker 1: is a live wire who really loves people and loves life,
Speaker 1: and you know what I mean. I was sort of
Speaker 1: that was a bit blunted at that age when you're
Speaker 1: starting out, did you know what you wanted? I knew
Speaker 1: that I was a creative personnel or person because I
Speaker 1: lived in my head a lot, so that much I knew.
Speaker 1: I daydreamed a lot, and I imagined people's lives a
Speaker 1: lot different. I would just look at a person. I'd
Speaker 1: look at every detail about them, how they walked, how
Speaker 1: their expression was, the shoes they were wearing, this not
Speaker 1: very young. And I would imagine their love life, what
Speaker 1: their apartment smelled like, you know, just like really detailed
Speaker 1: and that. I don't know why I did that, but
Speaker 1: I was a joy for me and so and then
Speaker 1: there's other things of just fantastical things like school if
Speaker 1: I was bored. I have this funny thing when I
Speaker 1: was like eight where I had a crush on a
Speaker 1: boy and I was going to sing the Olivia Newton
Speaker 1: John part of Greece, and I was sure in my
Speaker 1: mind when I was preparing that he would know him
Speaker 1: is que and the whole school would end up singing
Speaker 1: we go Together and like M and them and them
Speaker 1: and Danga dog, I thought, and I pictured it as
Speaker 1: I was getting ready that morning. Now mind you, I
Speaker 1: was seven or eight, and I would have these reality shifts.
Speaker 1: So my point is my imagination was that vivid. So
Speaker 1: later as I realized, oh, your imagination isn't always going
Speaker 1: to be reality and you were imagining things as story beats. Yes,
Speaker 1: and sometimes maybe it's it could be disassociative or like
Speaker 1: to get out of its totally something. Are you kidding?
Speaker 1: And I'm saying that because I am like this. There's
Speaker 1: a story that my friend likes to tell and embarrass me.
Speaker 1: I'll give it a bridge version. It's in college. It's
Speaker 1: a house party. There's maybe one hundred and fifty people.
Speaker 1: It felt like there was a thousand people. It's probably
Speaker 1: it was. It was a big party and I was
Speaker 1: playing the music of it. And it's like maybe one
Speaker 1: in the morning. It's in San Francisco, where I went
Speaker 1: to college, and all of a sudden we hear ding
Speaker 1: dong and everyone goes quiet, and it's the cops outside,
Speaker 1: and no one wants to go out there. And I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll go out there. I'll go talk to them. I'm drunk.
Speaker 1: I mean, let's be honest it. But I know how
Speaker 1: to I know how to do that. I can bullshit
Speaker 1: my way through it. So I go out there. I
Speaker 1: bullshit my way through it. I tell him it's a
Speaker 1: small gathering, someone's leaving town, doesn't really matter. The cop
Speaker 1: goes away. There's nothing they can really do anyway, everyone's
Speaker 1: above eighteen. And then as they leave, I realize the
Speaker 1: music is off and all the dancing has stopped and
Speaker 1: the vibe has been destroyed. So I text my friend
Speaker 1: and I say, when I come back in, I'm going
Speaker 1: to say the cops are gone, and you're going to
Speaker 1: press play on the music and everyone's going to start dancing.
Speaker 1: It's all going to return. It's like the Peanuts Gang.
Speaker 1: I was creating a whole scene. Yes, nonsense. And I
Speaker 1: go in and I say the cops are gone, and
Speaker 1: everyone goes yeah, And then thirty seconds passed because he
Speaker 1: couldn't get it to play. The music doesn't do it.
Speaker 1: My point is, I think people who want to tell
Speaker 1: stories do it in their day to day life, in
Speaker 1: any place where they can, even when it makes no
Speaker 1: sense to do so. Yes, And it's also these funny
Speaker 1: things that I'm learning. You still fucking learn about your
Speaker 1: childhood in your mid forties and probably forever. I think
Speaker 1: it's an eternal thing. It's eternal thing. No, No being
Speaker 1: a creative are you kidding? If you're into spirit energy
Speaker 1: at all, you came into this life with this juggernaut
Speaker 1: of whatever you are. But there's these things that cultivated.
Speaker 1: So what I'm saying is this, Sometimes these creative mechanisms
Speaker 1: that are now like, yeah, it's made me my libel
Speaker 1: elihood and I developed a talent. We're survival mechanisms, you know,
Speaker 1: because yes, I went through being hungry and poverty and
Speaker 1: bullying and did bullying and you know, and all the
Speaker 1: things we grow up through childhood, and so these survival
Speaker 1: mechanisms are hilarious. You know, your mother married three times? Yes,
Speaker 1: father married four times? Go on, my mother married four times? What?
Speaker 1: My father married three times? What? Hello? I could tell
Speaker 1: the first part of the question. You're like, oh, fuck,
Speaker 1: he's gonna talk to me about this. Oh no, And
Speaker 1: then I brought up my own yeah, and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: thank god. Well it's just kind of matter of facts
Speaker 1: because I'm like, yeah, bows are my parents like, I
Speaker 1: don't even know what to think about it, because they
Speaker 1: just liked marrying because they weren't off and running around,
Speaker 1: you know, or before me, they might have been in
Speaker 1: their youth. Oh my gosh, that's really interesting. So it's
Speaker 1: something I'm processing, especially in my twenties. Yeah, when you're
Speaker 1: in your twenties and you're falling in and out of
Speaker 1: love with whoever you're dating. What is your concept of
Speaker 1: like a relationship at that point? I know, isn't it interesting?
Speaker 1: I'll tell you one funny thing that my sister and
Speaker 1: I talk about were like, this is very much from
Speaker 1: our childhood. We are friends for the most part with xes,
Speaker 1: Like so her first they weren't married, but the father
Speaker 1: of my two nieces. He's like her brother. He's our family.
Speaker 1: And then she has a husband now similarly my ex husband,
Speaker 1: which is an odd thing to say. We were both
Speaker 1: twenty six, married three years. He's like family. It's not
Speaker 1: like we talk all the time or caesa, but he's
Speaker 1: like my brother. And that was very much my mom
Speaker 1: and dad's relationship. There are more like siblings. And we
Speaker 1: never knew them together because they were split when I
Speaker 1: was two, so mine split before I was one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I've never known them together. So it's just like
Speaker 1: whatever their relationship was poorly jovial. There's probably financial stresses there.
Speaker 1: This is the constant journey. Is this? Oh gosh, there's
Speaker 1: so many great self help books that talk about it.
Speaker 1: But like you attract this thing or like something I
Speaker 1: forgot God, I'm going to butcher the quote. But what
Speaker 1: you're supposed to learn or something? So even my guy,
Speaker 1: we've been together four years. I want to be with
Speaker 1: him for longer as he does. He but we're you know,
Speaker 1: you just learn how to care for each other and
Speaker 1: you both have your reactivity that's stored from childhood. It's
Speaker 1: an interesting dance. You have a lyric in a song
Speaker 1: that you wrote. Yeah, I been around the block once
Speaker 1: twice maybe more. I never met a hungry fool. I
Speaker 1: couldn't learn to adore Hello, can we can? I tell
Speaker 1: the viewers there's no viewers at home. I'm using all
Speaker 1: this fricking archaic language. The listeners you did your thing,
Speaker 1: because I'll do these interviews and they'll look at the
Speaker 1: fricking Wikipedia, which I couldn't even change to save my life.
Speaker 1: You know there's untruth there. But you're like, oh, I
Speaker 1: give up Internet. You're an idiot. But if you ever
Speaker 1: wanted to know me, there's some stuff in there. Lyrics
Speaker 1: sometimes are just for fun and ships and giggles and
Speaker 1: rhymes and this, but that there's some that are really personal.
Speaker 1: But yes, I love this song. People say he got
Speaker 1: a lot to learn. That's so key complicate things when
Speaker 1: you young men around the corner like some rollers dates
Speaker 1: just for funacies Take it easy, babe, He's not the
Speaker 1: only one. All the lights gouts to yellow face. See
Speaker 1: you in the middle. Not the love with Maid. I'm
Speaker 1: new girl, got my maid. It's just an illusion. Yes,
Speaker 1: I know. This song is really special because in in
Speaker 1: when we would do it live, I would get everyone
Speaker 1: to sing at the end because we say it's just
Speaker 1: an illusion, Um the last sir, because it's just an illusion. This.
Speaker 1: I know. The song is called this. I know everybody. Everybody,
Speaker 1: not everybody. The song is just called this. I know, um.
Speaker 1: But I get everyone to sing illusion together, and it's
Speaker 1: so beautiful. I love the song because it's the kind
Speaker 1: of song that one can only write being on the
Speaker 1: other side of something. And when I read it, I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about when you've been around easy straight. You carry
Speaker 1: your nightmares, so you'll take the heat. Some are lonely,
Speaker 1: so they fight your wars and and you know, coming
Speaker 1: out of that patch of years six, Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: painful time as you get sober. How did you get
Speaker 1: through that period? Oh? So many things, but I'm still
Speaker 1: getting I just didn't like that some interviews, I like,
Speaker 1: keep going back. It's so long ago to me because
Speaker 1: now what I'm having to deal with his mortality and death.
Speaker 1: And the big joke of as you age is like, wow,
Speaker 1: you could only wish of your younger problems. They got
Speaker 1: nothing on midlife and you know, feeding your dad when
Speaker 1: he's older. And so this all sounds like a breeze. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean no, it wasn't. It was the hardest thing ever.
Speaker 1: And I and people that go through it, it's you know,
Speaker 1: you need your support systems and that we now learn.
Speaker 1: But I have other things that I have to manage now,
Speaker 1: you know, don't isolate. And I lost my dad three
Speaker 1: years ago, and that this literally made me the little
Speaker 1: bird when it's that the sky is falling, you know
Speaker 1: that book, because I literally he's a little I think
Speaker 1: he's looking someone knows the book. This guy is falling.
Speaker 1: I forgot why he says that. But I hadn't come
Speaker 1: up through the experience of death. So I want to
Speaker 1: read more books on it of the acceptance of that
Speaker 1: with grace and still being of service to others and
Speaker 1: how to deal with that because I feel things and
Speaker 1: that was the problem. Then earlier on when you're self
Speaker 1: indicating is feeling things so deeply and it's what makes
Speaker 1: me do what I do so strongly. But in life
Speaker 1: it can be hard, you know. I've gone to doctors
Speaker 1: being like you know, or read you going and web
Speaker 1: md because sometimes I've done a shoot where my whole
Speaker 1: body is in pain or I'm stress and I'm having
Speaker 1: because I carry things physically, and then I'll be like, oh,
Speaker 1: your blood works back, You're in perfect health, and I'm like, fuck,
Speaker 1: what's what's the answer? And it's only spirit, you know,
Speaker 1: energy and managing your mental health, stress and all this stuff.
Speaker 1: So to answer your question, yeah, I don't like to
Speaker 1: keep going back to the time because there's so many
Speaker 1: important journeys I've been journeys lessons I've been learning of late,
Speaker 1: and one is that it's people, you know, the unfairness
Speaker 1: of life. I just lost a friend to cancer and
Speaker 1: she was had it for four years and fought a
Speaker 1: great fight, and it's just unfair. She's my age, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, and a mother and we went
Speaker 1: to the service this is a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: and I was asked to sing and it's impossible. I'm like,
Speaker 1: your logic self is like, oh no, that's impossible. I'll
Speaker 1: be weeping, thank you. The other nice spiritual self is
Speaker 1: to go, I want to show up for you. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna sing this little song about the sunny side of
Speaker 1: the street to hopefully bring you, know, love in the room,
Speaker 1: and I saying sunny side of the street in between tears.
Speaker 1: How did you do it? Well? I know it was wild.
Speaker 1: I'm coming off of that wave because I was like,
Speaker 1: I just want to show up more for people I
Speaker 1: get in my own head. But um, anyway, every other day,
Speaker 1: every other week, you're like, what's the meaning of life
Speaker 1: in this nebulous? Wait, nebulous, I'm silly The phrase of
Speaker 1: I want to make people happy? Okay, well I want
Speaker 1: to make yeah, so I'd like to be happy. But
Speaker 1: beside that, I really want to make others feel a
Speaker 1: sense of peace or joy. So we can do that daily.
Speaker 1: We can and live a little wee ways, So maybe
Speaker 1: easier to make other people happy, there it is. And
Speaker 1: but that in turn, the fact that I could sing
Speaker 1: this little song and it gave something to the it's
Speaker 1: beautiful service. I was happy that that I could do
Speaker 1: something because death is flattening it's horrible to deal with,
Speaker 1: But yeah, how did I do it? I stood up there,
Speaker 1: cried said one minute, let's pause. We're gonna do this
Speaker 1: to everyone. I was like, we're gonna get through this.
Speaker 1: And then I sang the little song. I only know
Speaker 1: two songs acapella, and that's that's one of them, and
Speaker 1: it's kind of sweet. Was performing with your band helpful
Speaker 1: in this? Oh? Yeah? Again that how did you get
Speaker 1: through it? Question? Every year? How are you getting through it?
Speaker 1: How are you getting through it? How are you getting
Speaker 1: how do you not look back with regret and loss
Speaker 1: and like, man, it fucked up? Like it's not it's
Speaker 1: all going down the way it's supposed to be, you
Speaker 1: know how you learn those things all happening the way
Speaker 1: it's supposed to Okay, what does that mean? I say
Speaker 1: that all, yes, but I also don't know. No. I
Speaker 1: think it's like it all goes. The idea that it
Speaker 1: all goes the way it's supposed to know is like
Speaker 1: a thing we say that's comforting. I think it just
Speaker 1: all goes the way it does the way it does not.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm supposed to So, yeah, you
Speaker 1: just say it's supposed to because otherwise it's like, oh God,
Speaker 1: this sort of random, chaotic nature is so unsettling. Yes,
Speaker 1: I know you're a deeply spiritual person. It seems like
Speaker 1: that's what's on your mind right now. Yeah, And I'm
Speaker 1: really open because I get associated in the media, you know,
Speaker 1: to various things. My thing is, I'm I make these
Speaker 1: funding statements, but one is I'm a believer of believing.
Speaker 1: I really think it's helpful to believe in things, and
Speaker 1: so like, I'm open. What I have learned is group
Speaker 1: connection is helpful for me. Even when I was like
Speaker 1: when I was done with my band and I went
Speaker 1: through being depressed, I was like, what's happening? And I
Speaker 1: joined the workout group I just mentioned earlier today, my
Speaker 1: beloved Barry's boot camp years ago, and I because I
Speaker 1: was like, what work out with other people? I couldn't
Speaker 1: even understand. You know, you just sort of are in
Speaker 1: your head and you like a good workout. But it
Speaker 1: forced me to be a runner. I actually needed run
Speaker 1: because the depression came because I was I was doing
Speaker 1: this really expressive, incredibly aerobic, vigorous show five times a
Speaker 1: week for years and then I stopped. Really intense Yeah,
Speaker 1: really intense, wonderfully magically volatile. Yeah. I watched some clips
Speaker 1: this morning. I was like, I'm tired of looking at this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, I was so weird. I wanted to make
Speaker 1: everybody in the room energized by my own energy. So so, um,
Speaker 1: you like your goal is to energize, and me watching
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm exhausted. Yeah, totally. So. Yeah, the band
Speaker 1: was helpful. When you said how did you get through everything?
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, I need to express I can't
Speaker 1: sit in my cave and think dark thoughts. So you
Speaker 1: can synthesize or express that and churn over into light.
Speaker 1: It's really incredible. Songwriting. Was the song you just played
Speaker 1: that reminds me of being in love? All my songs
Speaker 1: make me feel the feeling of what in love felt.
Speaker 1: When we would play those and Todd play a riff
Speaker 1: or Kimball or Womac, I would sing that song in
Speaker 1: my head, I would feel hopeful. I was like looking
Speaker 1: forward to the next time we were going to meet.
Speaker 1: It's creating, particularly with music, is like is love. It's
Speaker 1: so incredible. So then when you bring it to people
Speaker 1: and then you all create that in a space, it's
Speaker 1: really profound, But I did have all those ups and
Speaker 1: downs because when I would go back to the bus
Speaker 1: and we beyond the next city, I always joked it
Speaker 1: was called the Lion and the Mouse. There must be
Speaker 1: a little another kid's book about the lion and the mouse.
Speaker 1: But these are my creative selves, because I was like
Speaker 1: a little wee mouse in the back of my bus,
Speaker 1: so small, but on stage it was such an an
Speaker 1: expending of energy. Why were you small on the tour bus.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a I feel like I gave
Speaker 1: that much, and I would always have this feeling. I
Speaker 1: just wanted to be held, and I do go back
Speaker 1: to kids books, but I see a little tiny mouse
Speaker 1: in the palm of someone's hand, and I wasn't in
Speaker 1: a relationship too, so that whole thing was like my world.
Speaker 1: It was my love and then I felt alone afterward.
Speaker 1: So but to answer something, I'm so excited, I'm in
Speaker 1: the back of my mind, I was like, because this group,
Speaker 1: the Licks, was the only thing like we were really
Speaker 1: something together. Even if I hungered for a different style
Speaker 1: of music or different things, together, we created something, and
Speaker 1: so we might be doing that again. I'm figuring it
Speaker 1: out before we go. Let's bring it to the present
Speaker 1: a little bit. Thank you. You talked about watching your
Speaker 1: father pass Yeah, and the pain of that. On the
Speaker 1: other side of that, what conclusions did you come to? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was so upsetting because before he passed he was
Speaker 1: sick for a long time. He had Parkinson's dementia, and
Speaker 1: I watched his health deteriorate, and again I felt it
Speaker 1: on a cellular level, because not only we do connect
Speaker 1: through cells, that's my father. He was always representative of
Speaker 1: this really vital, virile, all the masculine traits. He was funny,
Speaker 1: all these things, and I watched him, you know, where
Speaker 1: he could bear. They put sentences together and we all
Speaker 1: helped care for him, and at some point I had defeat.
Speaker 1: We fed him because he couldn't hold as spoon and
Speaker 1: all of that stuff, and I got really dark. That
Speaker 1: was this is my midlife ps. I wrote a script
Speaker 1: about it. Great, that is something I'm totally comfortable promoting.
Speaker 1: Let's do it. No, No, finally, this will be my
Speaker 1: passion project. I want to put it together, but it's
Speaker 1: an exaggeration of themes I went through. Finally I could
Speaker 1: get to the other side because it was dark. I
Speaker 1: was obsessed with death and why and this and what
Speaker 1: does it matter? And you're going to do this? You know,
Speaker 1: what do they call it? When you're mad at God
Speaker 1: or the universe? Disillusioned? And then we banded together as
Speaker 1: a family and helped care for him in his later years.
Speaker 1: And then one day he went out he had a
Speaker 1: heart attack. So that's thankful and that it was very
Speaker 1: quick and it was over and you walk around lost
Speaker 1: and then it became life because I again have to believe.
Speaker 1: So my head was speaking to me constantly, and I
Speaker 1: was thinking, was him anyways really magical time? And I
Speaker 1: try to carry that with me of looking for the beauty.
Speaker 1: I felt like he was showing me the beauty in
Speaker 1: everyday living that I wasn't seeing before. And whether I
Speaker 1: needed that, I just honestly think he was. I have
Speaker 1: so many wild signs. It was really so. I try
Speaker 1: every time where you know you're in the grind of life,
Speaker 1: I try to go wait and then you'll just look
Speaker 1: at a leaf. I'm really in a nature, A leaf,
Speaker 1: a pup, a smile, you know, a song, a thing,
Speaker 1: just step out, you know, just acknowledge it. Beauty, beauty, beauty,
Speaker 1: you know, I think most people listening love would hear
Speaker 1: you talk about your father passing and then hear the
Speaker 1: term like magical and be surprised because it's not often
Speaker 1: how death is described. I know, I I gosh. I
Speaker 1: want to read more books about it, of people who
Speaker 1: have died and came back that whole thing, or commas
Speaker 1: or what they have to say. I would love any
Speaker 1: books anybody's are they going to write in? Please tell me? Um,
Speaker 1: I've been looking for that because now my whole thing
Speaker 1: is like what goes on after we're not here? You know?
Speaker 1: And that's the great catch toorny two is someone, do
Speaker 1: you have any guesses? I don't know. Um. There's a
Speaker 1: book called My Year of Magical Thinking, and then it
Speaker 1: was on a play. Yes, yeah, I haven't read it,
Speaker 1: but there it is. Oh it's something. It's about as painful,
Speaker 1: Okay as books get. I'm gonna say, is there anything
Speaker 1: to do with the title. Did she come out where
Speaker 1: it's something like revelation? I can't. Maybe subtly it's mostly
Speaker 1: her working through trauma. Yeah, and she had her child
Speaker 1: die early, she had her partner die suddenly. So there's
Speaker 1: the thing is gratitude. Gratitude there's so many things. That
Speaker 1: was the one thing when I say magical, is I
Speaker 1: literally the checkout guy at the guy or girl at
Speaker 1: the grocery store. We'd say I lost my father. I
Speaker 1: found that every and I was open to that connectivity
Speaker 1: and you weren't before, no, before. But it became more
Speaker 1: communal because to know all these people walking around going
Speaker 1: through what I think is the hardest thing. How could
Speaker 1: anybody live through it? How can you endure? And to
Speaker 1: find everybody's going to go through it or has gone
Speaker 1: through things of that nature, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: That just that was was very communal. If you could
Speaker 1: somehow step into a time machine, yeah and tell young
Speaker 1: Juliet something like eighteen year old cape fear Juliet something
Speaker 1: on the other side of all this, what the hell
Speaker 1: would you say? Well, because you want to say the
Speaker 1: thing that wouldn't do anything, you know, stop thinking, go outside, um,
Speaker 1: change your voice for that. That's my inner voice. No.
Speaker 1: Sometimes maybe from the future to the past. Hey you No,
Speaker 1: I would say these things you can't say to somebody,
Speaker 1: enjoy your life. Shut up? You know, shut up? Um,
Speaker 1: that doesn't work. So what I would have said is
Speaker 1: learn an instrument. This is something I wish because you
Speaker 1: can express. You know, they talk all about there's so
Speaker 1: many therapies, music therapies, one for people who are troubled
Speaker 1: and stuff. But I think that would have helped me,
Speaker 1: and it just stop being so afraid of people, and
Speaker 1: and just to try to I would just try to
Speaker 1: make it a date. But anything. I don't know how
Speaker 1: you tell your younger self any I think it's so weird.
Speaker 1: Well you don't, you don't, you can't. But there is
Speaker 1: a practice I have done. Now. You know. The good
Speaker 1: thing is time goes by. You do have experience and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh shit, I've survived a few times when
Speaker 1: I thought I couldn't write. So when you're in a
Speaker 1: rut or a breakup, or you're hurt or this, I've
Speaker 1: done this trick where I go, Okay, put yourself in
Speaker 1: ten years from now, be ten years from now looking back,
Speaker 1: this is just going to be a moment and tw
Speaker 1: mab it won't be what it is right now. That
Speaker 1: helps me sometimes, the idea of aging gracefully. Yes it
Speaker 1: is something you're thinking about right now. Yeah, so let's
Speaker 1: go ten years from now and use this as a
Speaker 1: kind of time capsule. All right, what does it look
Speaker 1: like for you? What do you want it to look like? Oh,
Speaker 1: that's cute, gardening more, you know, all that time with nature,
Speaker 1: but not alone. Maybe my guy his kids will be grown.
Speaker 1: Maybe your garage sale in ten years. Older ladies are
Speaker 1: huge ambitions right now. You want to growd sale, you
Speaker 1: want some gardening. Tell you love that I like downsized
Speaker 1: because that's what it is. Well, you just enjoy the
Speaker 1: little things. The whole dance at Midlin and later is like,
Speaker 1: can I enjoy the little things? Do you have to
Speaker 1: be a show stopper? Especially creative folks, they always have
Speaker 1: to like, you know, I'm gonna show them. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about when I was younger. You're like, what, Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: you did ask a question? What's it? Did you know
Speaker 1: what you want when you're a kid. Sometimes it's as
Speaker 1: simple as I'll show them. You know. I had a
Speaker 1: them that I wanted to fucking show who were mean
Speaker 1: to me when I was a teenager, And then the
Speaker 1: time I did something that would have shown them, I
Speaker 1: was like, who's them? I don't even know who they
Speaker 1: are and I don't even care about them. So in
Speaker 1: the future, it's a gardening and health and beautiful people
Speaker 1: in my life. Early on, you talked about, you know,
Speaker 1: finding your foot and getting these roles, making a career
Speaker 1: when you didn't even totally know a career was being built,
Speaker 1: and you said something to the effect of not totally
Speaker 1: understanding your own self worth, like why is this happening
Speaker 1: to me? What normal questions when good things happen to us.
Speaker 1: Oftentimes most same people will say, why the hell how
Speaker 1: did this happens? Yea? And what does it mean? What
Speaker 1: does it mean? What do I do with it? Am
Speaker 1: I doing what I'm supposed to do? Yeah? So I'm
Speaker 1: just curious. Now at forty six, are you proud of
Speaker 1: what you've done? Yes, I can give you a definitive yes,
Speaker 1: because it's important just it is. It is to notice
Speaker 1: where you could have done better or had a better conversation,
Speaker 1: or can you handle something a bit more gracefully. I
Speaker 1: think it's important to be mindful like that. Maybe some
Speaker 1: people aren't. That's super important. It also is very important
Speaker 1: to validate when you've done something right or well or yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I listened to people who in airports
Speaker 1: and in the grocery store who tell me about scenes
Speaker 1: that move them I'm able to hear them. I can
Speaker 1: actually see them now and be like, holy shit, Wow,
Speaker 1: you received me, and that it's awesome. I'm not alone
Speaker 1: in my own dance or whatever. So and in time
Speaker 1: and how I've affected people and I didn't know I
Speaker 1: you know, in my goofy way, I dressed or showed
Speaker 1: up with no makeup here and there or whatever, little
Speaker 1: things like that. How women because I grew you know,
Speaker 1: young women, they're constantly sexualized or minimized or whatever. So
Speaker 1: even my little stances early on showed someone a completer
Speaker 1: picture of young femalehood. Like that's awesome to me. Isn't
Speaker 1: that incredible? As a kid, Yeah, you spent your time
Speaker 1: looking around imagining the lives of other people. You'd make
Speaker 1: up stories, and now you actually hear them. Wow. Way
Speaker 1: to bring it back now I can be, yeah, a
Speaker 1: participant within those stories with other people. I'm looking forward
Speaker 1: to it. I want to thank you for telling your
Speaker 1: story here today. Thank you so much. This is really
Speaker 1: it's just one of my favorite interviews that ever happened.
Speaker 1: Thank you anytime. So bye, and that's our show special
Speaker 1: thanks to speak to Carline Donovan and Chloe Snyder Juliet's
Speaker 1: latest performance is in Sacred Lies the Singing Bones. It's
Speaker 1: available to stream right now on Facebook Watch. Also, be
Speaker 1: sure to keep an eye out for her upcoming HBO
Speaker 1: limited series I Know This Much Is True. It will
Speaker 1: have its series premiere on April twenty seventh. If you'd
Speaker 1: like to learn more about Juliet, be sure to visit
Speaker 1: our site at www dot com, easypod dot com. There
Speaker 1: on the website you'll find a back catalog of episodes,
Speaker 1: but the whole bunch of people you'll probably like, including
Speaker 1: Laura Dern, Gloria steinem Errol Morris, Kenneth Branna Morgan Parker,
Speaker 1: Alison pill. If any of those folks sound interesting to you,
Speaker 1: you can find them on the site, and you can
Speaker 1: also find them on Spotify, Apple Music, Stitcher, SoundCloud, wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcast. You can also find and follow
Speaker 1: us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at talk easypod. And
Speaker 1: you'd like to leave us an email, especially in these
Speaker 1: unusual times of ours, feel free to do so at
Speaker 1: talk easypod at gmail dot com. As always, this show
Speaker 1: would not be possible without our incredible team. Our executive
Speaker 1: producer is Chinnick, so bravo our Associate producer is Nicky Spina.
Speaker 1: Our editors are Andre Lynn and Katherine Owen. Our social
Speaker 1: media is by Deja Washington. Our photographer is Emma Meade.
Speaker 1: Our music is by Dylan Peck and Jin Sang. Illustrations
Speaker 1: by Krishna Chenoe, design by Ian Jones. Our engineer is
Speaker 1: Tim Moore, and we tape ont of York, recording here
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, California. And finally, the show is produced
Speaker 1: by Caroline Reebok. I'm Sam Fergoso. Thank you for making
Speaker 1: Talk Easy part of your week. I know it is scary,
Speaker 1: an unnerving time, and we are going to do our
Speaker 1: best to keep moving forward and to keep having conversations
Speaker 1: that are good for the heart and soul, especially right now.
Speaker 1: So I'll see you back here next Sunday. Until then,
Speaker 1: have a good week everyone,