Speaker 1: Pushkin. It's a little bit exhausting to feel like your
Speaker 1: identity is just a group identity as opposed to you
Speaker 1: being used. So I would hop around a lot from
Speaker 1: group to group, which was just also exhausting in its
Speaker 1: own way, because it felt more like putting on an
Speaker 1: identity as opposed to being myself. It felt like acting.
Speaker 1: I think that that was the way that I needed
Speaker 1: to survive that predominantly white institution and space kind of
Speaker 1: and that's fine. I think I did what I had
Speaker 1: to do, which was just act and pretend. Hello everyone,
Speaker 1: It is one thirty in the morning here in Champagne, Illinois.
Speaker 1: I am attending the Ebert Fest, the twenty first annual Ebertfest,
Speaker 1: where my film Sebastian has played. I am absolutely exhausted.
Speaker 1: I have been talking all day in front of people
Speaker 1: on stage, to many strangers and then many familiar faces.
Speaker 1: I want to give thanks to all the wonderful people
Speaker 1: I have spoken to over the weekend, many of whom
Speaker 1: I have learned listen to this show. And it's a strange,
Speaker 1: wonderful thing to have people come up to you and
Speaker 1: tell you you're doing a good job. I still don't
Speaker 1: entirely know what to say other than thank you, and
Speaker 1: that I promised to continue doing the show so long
Speaker 1: as it remains good. On that note, we did a
Speaker 1: live episode of Talk Easy here in Champagne at the
Speaker 1: Virginia Theater. It was written Rita Coburn, the director of
Speaker 1: this wonderful Maya Angelo documentary. And then we also have
Speaker 1: two special guests who have been attending this festival since
Speaker 1: it began over twenty years ago. So we'll be airing
Speaker 1: that live episode next Sunday on the podcast. But today
Speaker 1: I want to introduce to a really wonderful emerging filmmaker.
Speaker 1: Her name is Tyresha Poe. She's a new director whose
Speaker 1: debut film called Selah and the Spades premiered at the
Speaker 1: Sundance Film Festival this past January. Without diving into too
Speaker 1: much plot detail, I really really enjoyed this film out
Speaker 1: of Sundance. You end up getting to watch a lot
Speaker 1: of movies at these festivals, and unfortunately, once you watch
Speaker 1: two or three in a day, they all kind of
Speaker 1: plended together. But there are moments of this film that
Speaker 1: stick in my head three months removed. I think the
Speaker 1: best way to describe this film is quoting an answer
Speaker 1: Tyresha gave in an interview to Women in Hollywood dot Com.
Speaker 1: The question was, what do you want people to think
Speaker 1: about when they are leaving the theater? She said, empathy
Speaker 1: for the devil. Sympathy, sure, but I'm going for empathy first.
Speaker 1: This is not your standard coming of age movie. It
Speaker 1: is like an updated spiritual sequel to Election in some ways,
Speaker 1: and yet is still darker than that film. Anyway, when
Speaker 1: this film comes out later this year, I would urge
Speaker 1: anyone listening to this show to make an effort to
Speaker 1: see it. It's called sell it in the spades, and
Speaker 1: this is the wonderful, very talented Tyresha. Okay, miss Poe, Yes,
Speaker 1: I feel like that's really that's kind of cool. It's
Speaker 1: very official. Yeah, yes, welcome, thank you. This is your
Speaker 1: first podcast ever ever in my whole life. Does it
Speaker 1: feel daunting? It should be really easy. It feels kind
Speaker 1: of chill. That's exactly what it should be. Give me
Speaker 1: a snapshot into how you're feeling right now. Having worked
Speaker 1: years to make this movie. I know it started as
Speaker 1: an interactive website, right yeah, and then there were some
Speaker 1: snippets put online that I saw, and I know it's
Speaker 1: been a long time in the making. Now that you're here, Yes,
Speaker 1: how do you feel home and terrified? Yeah, it's my
Speaker 1: usual combination. No, it feels like the culmination of a
Speaker 1: lot of hard work and luck a little bit. So
Speaker 1: it feels right like I feel like we're supposed to
Speaker 1: be here, but I also feel like it's something that
Speaker 1: I've been able to just be working on and keep
Speaker 1: close for so long, and now everyone can have an
Speaker 1: opinion on it. So that's terrifying. That's the terrifying partment. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But then I look around and I'm surrounded by like
Speaker 1: my cast and my crew and all these people who
Speaker 1: I love and who I respect and who I collaborated with.
Speaker 1: So they always just calm me down. So I think
Speaker 1: that's the best part is having all of them, so
Speaker 1: many of them be present. Can we go back to
Speaker 1: where this whole film starts for you? Yeah? Sure, what
Speaker 1: was the first inkle you had to make this? I
Speaker 1: guess twenty thirteen, five years ago? Jeesus? Really yeah, actually
Speaker 1: that's six years ago. Okay, let's stick with five years
Speaker 1: because it was the end of two nineteen. God, oh god,
Speaker 1: I'm getting so old. Um, it's more like what a
Speaker 1: shit storm? Well, yes, oh, I wrote, we'll get into
Speaker 1: that in the last perfect I'm ready, Um okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it started in two thousand and twelve. That was
Speaker 1: the first time I wrote the short story. I was
Speaker 1: working at my former college in the media center, and
Speaker 1: I was on like I just remember, is the end
Speaker 1: of a work day and it was the winter, like
Speaker 1: November December, and I was like in the media center
Speaker 1: and I just had this thought, what if there was
Speaker 1: like a teenage version of me? But she did whatever
Speaker 1: the fuck she wanted at all the time, and just
Speaker 1: kept doing whatever she wanted. Um. And so I started
Speaker 1: writing about this girl named Selim and I was like
Speaker 1: writing the story and my notesap on my phone. Um,
Speaker 1: and I was like walking down the hill to the
Speaker 1: train to go home, and I was like furiously typing
Speaker 1: and I was like making sure I wasn't going to trip.
Speaker 1: And that was like the very first That was the beginning.
Speaker 1: So this character was an alternat, a darker reality version
Speaker 1: of you. Yeah. I used to think of self, and
Speaker 1: she's obviously changed so much, especially now that there's a
Speaker 1: real human being bringing her to life. Love you, Simone,
Speaker 1: But back then I would think about her as like
Speaker 1: sella is sort of like my first impulse reactions to things,
Speaker 1: and she's my first impulse reaction to stuff. You like
Speaker 1: cut response, yeah, before I'm like, oh wait, I can't.
Speaker 1: I can't beat this person out. I can't be an
Speaker 1: asshole right now. Yeah, I can't completely discard them. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have to work through things and like be cool
Speaker 1: and chill. What were you like at that edge in college?
Speaker 1: You're working and you're in college? Yeah? What was I
Speaker 1: like in college? What was I like in twenty and twelve?
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I think it's important to at least
Speaker 1: I'm interested because your movie is so clearly like ingrained
Speaker 1: with you. It is, and I'm fascinated to see where
Speaker 1: that comes from. Is that a weird thing to think about? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm like, not that different than I like, I'm really consistent.
Speaker 1: I like my friend Jesse here is here. Actually, Jesse
Speaker 1: is the one who did the narration in the beginning
Speaker 1: of the film. She's an actress. Jessicaknazaro pitch her. She's
Speaker 1: here with me at Sundance this year and people have
Speaker 1: been asking her like, oh, what was Tyresha like like
Speaker 1: freshman year of college? And then she'll look at me,
Speaker 1: and she'll be like pretty much the exact same person.
Speaker 1: And it's true. I mean, okay, so who is that person?
Speaker 1: I consistent. I'm pretty hard headed. Like I I'm very
Speaker 1: I'm often very clear about what I want. This is
Speaker 1: what I've heard about. Yeah, I'm like pretty clear about it,
Speaker 1: and like, if it's attainable, I don't see why I
Speaker 1: shouldn't get it, and I'll do whatever I need to
Speaker 1: do to get there. But I think being that way
Speaker 1: for myself means that I don't know, I just feel
Speaker 1: kind of chill when, like calm a lot of the time,
Speaker 1: and I think it's just because I know what I
Speaker 1: want and there's a little ton of hiccups and ups
Speaker 1: and downs, but I'm going towards something, and as long
Speaker 1: as I'm going towards something, I feel okay. In school,
Speaker 1: did you know you wanted to make movies? Mm hmm,
Speaker 1: not really, not until like I started doing film in
Speaker 1: high school and sophomore year of high school, and I
Speaker 1: didn't really think of it as something I was going
Speaker 1: to do. I thought I was going to be a lawyer.
Speaker 1: It was just something that I liked because I love
Speaker 1: movies and my family loves movies the exact same. I
Speaker 1: thought I was going to be a lawyer. What is it? Oh,
Speaker 1: well that's my parents, aren't My parents are teachers and
Speaker 1: my dad's a teacher. She was like, so, you know,
Speaker 1: just like a natural progression of events and being a lawyer.
Speaker 1: I wrote, There's something my mom gave me over Christmas.
Speaker 1: This is completely not related to but um, I think
Speaker 1: may tie end. Actually is she gave me this thing
Speaker 1: from sixth grade and it said it was like it
Speaker 1: was like a report about me playing basketball. It was
Speaker 1: like in the local news letters whatever. It was so done,
Speaker 1: and it's like loves basketball Stevie Wonder and debating his mother,
Speaker 1: I wrote, what honesty? I wrote that, which was with
Speaker 1: you in the same way of like I thought I
Speaker 1: was gonna be a lawyer. Yeah, that's how messed up
Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, we have very clear ideas of ourselves
Speaker 1: at that age, and then we grow up and we're like, what,
Speaker 1: who what was that person thinking? I think that's kind
Speaker 1: of fun, man, No, it's great. It ties into who
Speaker 1: we are now. Yeah. So did you have to push
Speaker 1: that away at all? Did you feel like you were
Speaker 1: resisting that the temptation for like a serious job. No,
Speaker 1: my family, my both my parents were teachers. One of
Speaker 1: my brothers is a dancer professionally. One of my brothers
Speaker 1: is like a chemist. One of my brothers is I
Speaker 1: don't know, he's getting his PhD at Brown in something
Speaker 1: and now he's in Brazil for some reason. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: my family's all over the place. You don't know why
Speaker 1: is in Brazil. He's like doing dissertation and research. But
Speaker 1: every time I ask him what his dissertation is on,
Speaker 1: he's like, he goes into like a lot of I
Speaker 1: don't know, pedagogical, like academics speak. I'm like, yeah, oh, passionate, fascinating.
Speaker 1: I feel really bad, but he's amazing. He's he's my
Speaker 1: little brother shared it on the show. I love this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my brothers are kind of all over the place, and
Speaker 1: our parents always I just encourage us to do whatever
Speaker 1: we want, basically as long as we're willing to work
Speaker 1: hard and try our best. I think there are a
Speaker 1: lot of people who will hear this and not feel
Speaker 1: like they had a similar kind of thing. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: believe that I am, which makes me sad um and
Speaker 1: which is why I'm always like moaning my parents out
Speaker 1: to people and why my like my parents adopt like
Speaker 1: adopt their surrogate parents to so many students on their
Speaker 1: campus because they understand that I know, what does that
Speaker 1: look like when I see that somebody needs a little
Speaker 1: bit of a push towards like following their dreams or
Speaker 1: following their passion. I'm always like, you should just talk
Speaker 1: to my parents about this. Why don't you just like
Speaker 1: talk to my mom. She's really good at this and
Speaker 1: I mean it, and they do, and she's really good
Speaker 1: at convincing people to follow their dream Wow. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: it makes sense that you got to this point totally.
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel like a random seriously, no god, no,
Speaker 1: oh my god, no no, no, no, no no, no no. Yeah.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of work and careful, patient, exhausting and
Speaker 1: sometimes like a lot of times we failed, Like there
Speaker 1: were so many times when we were going to go
Speaker 1: in production production and then we couldn't because we didn't
Speaker 1: have the money. We couldn't go, and it was devastating.
Speaker 1: But then I would talk to my mom and she
Speaker 1: would say, well, if you can't go now, then it's
Speaker 1: not meant to be. And you just sort of have
Speaker 1: to like take a deep breath, let it out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and try again. Yeah, you know, they're not meant to
Speaker 1: be advice. My dad gives that all the time, and like,
Speaker 1: I think parents are right when they say that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's one of the most unsatisfying frustrating. It's so frustrating,
Speaker 1: and I like, when I was a kidie would drive
Speaker 1: me crazy. It would just like, because that's not what
Speaker 1: you want to hear. That's not helpful at that time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and even want to wait you want it now of course.
Speaker 1: But now as an adult, I think that having that
Speaker 1: mentality has made me like or I've sort of adopted
Speaker 1: my mom's mentality and I can sort of I think
Speaker 1: that I'm able to use that to help the people
Speaker 1: around me again, just like it's like a collective like
Speaker 1: deep side kind of feeling. What were the movies growing
Speaker 1: up that sort of triggered something inside of you to think, Oh,
Speaker 1: this is I don't know if I want to make movies,
Speaker 1: but I know this is beyond Yeah, going to see
Speaker 1: a Hollywood film, Yeah, I mean a lot of the
Speaker 1: things that moved me were Hollywood films. I'm more I
Speaker 1: met like Superhero. Oh yeah. When I was younger, we
Speaker 1: would watch The Matrix a lot in my family, we
Speaker 1: were just really into that movie. Yeah, I watched that
Speaker 1: so much. Yeah, we love that movie. I haven't seen
Speaker 1: like a decade. I've seen it recently, and I still
Speaker 1: really like it. Again, I'm afraid to watch that. I liked.
Speaker 1: It's like kind of like the actually want to go back,
Speaker 1: you want to hold onto the feeling of when you
Speaker 1: first saw it back then. Of course. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: still like it. Okay. The Matrix. Clueless is another one
Speaker 1: that's just like something about like hundreds of times. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, I love that movie. Just it really influences
Speaker 1: the way that I think about life. But you know,
Speaker 1: I have to say it does for me as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know I don't maybe seem like that it would,
Speaker 1: but it really. Mom loved that movie. Is so good.
Speaker 1: Weird movie watching a mom, Yeah it is, but it's
Speaker 1: still good. That's so. Those were the films that and like,
Speaker 1: I think Chris Marker's Lagette was a big one for me. Actually,
Speaker 1: that's a great one. Yeah. I saw that in sophomore
Speaker 1: year of high school for the first time. Um it
Speaker 1: was a film class. No, I don't I didn't think
Speaker 1: you were like like searching it. I want to watch k. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that wasn't me required viewing, required viewing, and thank goodness
Speaker 1: they love Were you a good student when I cared
Speaker 1: about it? Actually? Like, so it's worthmore. I went to
Speaker 1: college at Swarthmore College, and the first semester of freshman
Speaker 1: year for everyone is past fail and I took that
Speaker 1: to mean as long as I don't fail, then I'm fine.
Speaker 1: So I basically did the bare minimum that I had
Speaker 1: to do in order to pass. Yeah, and then like
Speaker 1: you can see in the next semester your grades that
Speaker 1: you would have gotten if you were being grade like
Speaker 1: d's and almost everything except for English. So I can
Speaker 1: be a good student when I need to, and one
Speaker 1: to be anything that's like reading books. I'm going to
Speaker 1: be a good student in that I can't help it. Well.
Speaker 1: The movie, it is so wonderful and how intricate in
Speaker 1: detail it is about these sort of factions within the school.
Speaker 1: I want to know, looking back, where would you fit
Speaker 1: into that sort of universe? Did you want to like
Speaker 1: actually sell drugs? And um did I want to sell drugs?
Speaker 1: I didn't have a desire to sell drugs. I just
Speaker 1: had a desire. I thought about it once. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I feel like most people do. You like, this
Speaker 1: might be easy. It's like a lot of I just
Speaker 1: I had a desire to have power, and if selling
Speaker 1: drugs would give me that power, I probably would have
Speaker 1: done it, but it wouldn't have at that time. So
Speaker 1: that's fine. Um No, I mean I was I guess
Speaker 1: I was technically probably a bobby because I did theater
Speaker 1: all the time, and like I was in set crew
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. I hung out with all the
Speaker 1: theater kids. Oh god, I don't know why. Well, I don't, like,
Speaker 1: I just don't know why I hung out like in retrospect,
Speaker 1: no offense if you guys are listening. Like in my
Speaker 1: high school, Petty, it's a boarding school in New Jersey.
Speaker 1: It's just very like I mean, it's Inselar, like all
Speaker 1: boarding schools are, and so you just group identity is
Speaker 1: really strong in the same way that it is when
Speaker 1: you're a teenager no matter where you are, but because
Speaker 1: you're there and you live with those people too, it's
Speaker 1: just hyper group activity and hypergroup identity. Like they called
Speaker 1: the kids who did a lot of art stuff and
Speaker 1: theater stuff the Swig kids because the Swig building was
Speaker 1: the art building and that was just where we were
Speaker 1: all the time. So I did a lot of that
Speaker 1: stuff and hung out with all those kids. But it's
Speaker 1: just like it's a little bit exhausting to feel like
Speaker 1: your identity is just a group identity as opposed to
Speaker 1: you being used. So I would hop around a lot
Speaker 1: from group to group, which was just also exhausting in
Speaker 1: its own way. But it's just like that cause problems, yeah,
Speaker 1: because it felt more like putting on an identity as
Speaker 1: opposed to being myself. You thought you were acting, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it felt like acting. I think that that was the
Speaker 1: way that I needed to survive that predominantly white institution
Speaker 1: space kind of and that's fine. I think I did
Speaker 1: what I had to do, which was just act and pretend.
Speaker 1: Now was the private school and the college predominantly white. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think the college was more diverse, but not by much. Also, on,
Speaker 1: my high school is one of the more diverse boarding schools,
Speaker 1: for sure, and I'm that's why my parents chose that one,
Speaker 1: and I really enjoyed it. In fact, I like my
Speaker 1: high school a lot more than I did college. But
Speaker 1: it's still you're never just like a student. You're always
Speaker 1: like a percentage and like you're always like a not
Speaker 1: a quota, but like you always feel like even if
Speaker 1: you're not, it's not stated that way. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I hate feeling like that. That's like my least
Speaker 1: favor feeling. Did you sense that when you were there, Yes, totally.
Speaker 1: Like we would always make jokes. I mean in high
Speaker 1: school and college. I have a really diverse group of friends.
Speaker 1: In college, like from all around the world, and whenever
Speaker 1: we were sitting together outside or in the cafeteria, it
Speaker 1: felt like somebody was always taking our picture for a
Speaker 1: brochure and we would always crack jokes about that, and
Speaker 1: the same in high school. So United Nations kind of yeah, exactly, Yes,
Speaker 1: United Nations started it all. The more important question is
Speaker 1: just as a person in the world, Yes, how do
Speaker 1: you think going and being part of those predominantly white
Speaker 1: institutions affected You know, I'm lucky because I have the
Speaker 1: family that I have and the parents that I have,
Speaker 1: Like my parents are very Pan African, and they're very
Speaker 1: socially conscious, and they're just very active in communities, and
Speaker 1: you know, academically, I don't know what the word is
Speaker 1: at they're very academically. They just have a very large
Speaker 1: sense of the history of black people. So because of that,
Speaker 1: I you know, I'm lucky because I was able to
Speaker 1: lose in a way my sense of identity and being black,
Speaker 1: and like my sense of pride in that when I
Speaker 1: entered the institution, like Petty even before them, because I
Speaker 1: grew up in America, which hates black people. So like
Speaker 1: you know, you, if you're not careful, or if you
Speaker 1: don't have a sense of being grounded within pride for
Speaker 1: yourself in your community, then it is easy to lose
Speaker 1: yourself but be consumed by honestly, by whiteness. But because
Speaker 1: of the parents that I have, who are so loving
Speaker 1: and so caring and so honest and so communicative, I
Speaker 1: was able to lose that and then find that pride
Speaker 1: again and in an even larger way than I ever
Speaker 1: had it before. So was there ever a frustrating disconnect
Speaker 1: between you and the classmates around you, like in college?
Speaker 1: Not in college. I really found my people in college
Speaker 1: to be honest friends. Yeah. I still love my friends,
Speaker 1: and I mean, like I said, Jesse's here, She's one
Speaker 1: of my best friends. I found really great people in
Speaker 1: college who who had a sense of what it's like
Speaker 1: to be mothered by someone and have to like relearn
Speaker 1: how to be the main character in your own life.
Speaker 1: Basically like we all had. We knew what it was
Speaker 1: like to go to these predomtily white institutions, and then
Speaker 1: we knew what it was like to lose ourselves, and
Speaker 1: we knew what it was like to regain ourselves. So
Speaker 1: we related about over that a lot. I know there,
Speaker 1: you know, I know a lot of folks who have
Speaker 1: been in a similar situation to you, And I'm always curious,
Speaker 1: is there ever a moment where you have the kind
Speaker 1: of back and forth there would be like in a
Speaker 1: movie where you are around people that are not besides
Speaker 1: your friends, that are looking at you as a number. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and sometimes that's often not spoken. It's just like kind
Speaker 1: of implicitly felt in a way that's even more dangerous
Speaker 1: and scary. Did you ever have interactions that were like
Speaker 1: you expressing your like autonomy and you as as a
Speaker 1: person in the world. Right, I think I understand your question,
Speaker 1: but I don't know if my answer is going to
Speaker 1: answer It's okay, any answers an answer? Oh well, this
Speaker 1: is so this isn't totally an answer, but I just
Speaker 1: remembered this and it's my story of the only time
Speaker 1: I've ever punched someone. Um, I was a I must
Speaker 1: have been a junior at Petty and I was just
Speaker 1: having a conversation outside of this cluster of dorms with
Speaker 1: two other people, um, and they were both white. Want
Speaker 1: a guy, I want a girl? And the guy we
Speaker 1: and we must have been talking something about like I'm
Speaker 1: not about black people, but just like about like one
Speaker 1: of the multicultural groups on campus or something, just like
Speaker 1: mentioning in activity or something like that. And then the
Speaker 1: guy turns to me and he's like, you know, Terisha,
Speaker 1: sometimes I just like don't really like black people. And
Speaker 1: then I just punched him in the face and walked away.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what else to do, Like that's the
Speaker 1: only time I've ever punched somebody, but it felt like
Speaker 1: literally the only response that made sense to me in
Speaker 1: the moment. Since then, I've learned like better ways to
Speaker 1: use my words to tear people apart. But like, that
Speaker 1: was a dick thing to say to someone. It's just like,
Speaker 1: what is wrong with you as a person that you
Speaker 1: would say that? Did you have to see that person again? Oh? Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: And I don't think I ever spoke to him again.
Speaker 1: He would like speak to me and I just wouldn't respond.
Speaker 1: I have no problem doing that because I have the
Speaker 1: there's a huge world out there and so many people
Speaker 1: I'm dying to meet and be a part of their
Speaker 1: lives that I can't justify to myself wasting a lot
Speaker 1: of time like verifying and like fighting for my existence
Speaker 1: to somebody who just doesn't see it for me. Right,
Speaker 1: So he moved on. Yeah, God, yeah, how did the
Speaker 1: punch bill? It felt really good. It didn't really hurt
Speaker 1: that much. He had a really skinny face though, So
Speaker 1: I think I hit like his cheek book because I
Speaker 1: remember that hurt. But then I was just like so
Speaker 1: buzzy afterwards. It is like all, yeah, you could do
Speaker 1: anything on that. Yeah, Yeah that was wild. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: that's pretty good. Yeah. But there's like always everywhere, constant,
Speaker 1: Like I don't I'm not crazy about the word microaggressions,
Speaker 1: because I think microaggressions are actually pretty large because of
Speaker 1: how often they happen. But there's just always little things
Speaker 1: that people will do, like when people will say that
Speaker 1: my story is like an urban store, like the story
Speaker 1: of selling space is an urban story, and I'm like
Speaker 1: it literally takes place at a boarding school in the
Speaker 1: countryside of Pennsylvania. What about this is urban besides all
Speaker 1: the black people in it? Yeah, well, year, so I'm
Speaker 1: still like dealing with how to Well, I'm getting a
Speaker 1: lot better just saying exactly what I said, which makes
Speaker 1: me feel really good because there have been times when
Speaker 1: some or they're Like two years ago, if somebody had
Speaker 1: said that, I probably would have said, um, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: sure and just kept it going. But now I don't
Speaker 1: want to just keep it moving forward anymore. I want
Speaker 1: to say what you just said is wrong for this reason.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about why you feel the need to
Speaker 1: say that and just make people confront their own microaggressions
Speaker 1: as opposed to taking on the weight of them for
Speaker 1: myself because I have better things to do, right, which
Speaker 1: is a waste of time yea, and not productive and
Speaker 1: not productive. Do you feel like you are It's easier
Speaker 1: for you to say that now than it was two
Speaker 1: years ago, totally because I made a movie, To be
Speaker 1: quite honest, like making the film and finishing the film
Speaker 1: makes me feel like I have more agency to decide
Speaker 1: how people talk about it. Whereas when I was like
Speaker 1: raising money for it and still in development. I felt
Speaker 1: so unsure about our place in the world as a movie,
Speaker 1: as a production that I was like, I can't really
Speaker 1: step on toes. It was all precarious. It was all precarious.
Speaker 1: And now then I'm like, Okay, well we made it.
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to call you out. I'm going to
Speaker 1: call you out. I'm gonna call you out, and I
Speaker 1: won't feel I feel like I have like this. It's weird.
Speaker 1: It's like I feel like my cast and crew is
Speaker 1: behind me, like shadow watching everything that's going on and
Speaker 1: like like supporting me. Yeah, so let's get into the
Speaker 1: process of you pitching the movie. Yeah, because it was
Speaker 1: you were doing that for a while. Yeah, what is
Speaker 1: that like that? To really put a story that's so
Speaker 1: close to you out there to strangers asking for money?
Speaker 1: It was fine. I I I like, Yeah, we did
Speaker 1: a bunch of those, like pitch market things like Chibecca,
Speaker 1: if not, IFC, IFP, and then we did Sundance Catalyst
Speaker 1: and I think, I know, I know without a doubt
Speaker 1: that I prefer Catalysts to all of them because it's
Speaker 1: easier for me, for whatever, because it's acting. And I
Speaker 1: know that's why it's easier for me. It's easy for
Speaker 1: me to pitch something because it's just acting and I
Speaker 1: can act. I know that it's easy. I like theater,
Speaker 1: yeah exactly. But like when we did Catalysts, I was
Speaker 1: standing on a stage and there was a theater full
Speaker 1: of people watching me. It was just that was easy.
Speaker 1: But when I'm doing like pitch session things where you're
Speaker 1: like sitting around to save from somebody, and you're just like, okay,
Speaker 1: let's do some small talk and then yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: really like dating, so it felt like dating. And I
Speaker 1: don't like dating. Yeah, but when you're standing on a
Speaker 1: stage pitching something that feels so I get like a
Speaker 1: special kind of high from that feeling. So that was easy.
Speaker 1: And coincidentally a Catalysts where we raised all of our money.
Speaker 1: So what was your pitch? How did it sound? I
Speaker 1: basically just told people who I was, where I was
Speaker 1: coming from, and why I liked the story, Like I
Speaker 1: told them the truth. I told them that I like
Speaker 1: stories about people who do bad things, like I really
Speaker 1: love The Godfather. I really truly love The Godfather, and
Speaker 1: like I really liked Breaking Bad, and I like stories
Speaker 1: about these characters who are absolute dixed people around them,
Speaker 1: and who screw over so many other people's lives. But
Speaker 1: I just I'm so fascinated by them. And I told
Speaker 1: them I want to see a black girl do that
Speaker 1: and get away with it, not because I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: justifying her actions, but because I want to see her
Speaker 1: justify her actions to herself. Why do you think you
Speaker 1: are fascinated by those characters? I think because when you
Speaker 1: look a certain way, like if you are a woman
Speaker 1: and you are you know, like you fit into like
Speaker 1: a standard of like conventionally attractive people or like people.
Speaker 1: You know, like if you look a certain way and
Speaker 1: you have like like your voice is kind of high,
Speaker 1: and like people think you're friendly, then people sort of
Speaker 1: they expect you to be really like they expect you
Speaker 1: to be something, even if you're not that thing. So
Speaker 1: I feel often, and I felt when I was younger,
Speaker 1: very often that because I would like I have like
Speaker 1: a very natural like my fee, I like to smile.
Speaker 1: I smile a lot, and in a weird way, because
Speaker 1: I smile a lot, and because I like to be
Speaker 1: nice to people, because I just I like people and
Speaker 1: I like being around people. It felt like people were
Speaker 1: constantly wanting me to be that way, as opposed to
Speaker 1: letting me be that way and also be angry or
Speaker 1: like be that way and also be mean or be
Speaker 1: that way and also just not want to talk to
Speaker 1: fucking anybody. And it's just I want or I like
Speaker 1: this character because she allowed or I let her be
Speaker 1: herself every time, and I let her do the things
Speaker 1: that she wants to do in that moment, and nobody's
Speaker 1: gonna tell her otherwise. And I guess I just got
Speaker 1: sick people telling me who I was and who I am.
Speaker 1: People were doing that a lot, Yeah, And I don't
Speaker 1: think it's I think that's just something that people do.
Speaker 1: Like I think that's a very natural human thing to
Speaker 1: not assume the best but just sort of fit people
Speaker 1: into an x or like fit people into a box almost.
Speaker 1: And I'm trying to break out of that every day.
Speaker 1: And I'm always trying to think, Okay, maybe this person
Speaker 1: isn't angry, maybe they're just like fucking maybe today's you're
Speaker 1: just in a mood, and I'm in moods. I'm a
Speaker 1: very moody person. People don't know that about me, except
Speaker 1: for my family and my husband. A very moody person
Speaker 1: and now everybody's listening. But like it's like and like,
Speaker 1: all my closest friends know that, and they learn that
Speaker 1: and they love that about me. Because we love our friends,
Speaker 1: or the complexity of our friends. We don't love them
Speaker 1: for one side. That's why they're are friends. And I
Speaker 1: like to feel known, and I like to feel seen
Speaker 1: and I like to feel understood, which is why I
Speaker 1: like my circle is small, because I understand that a
Speaker 1: lot of people think that they know me because I
Speaker 1: am really friendly and I am really like interested in
Speaker 1: other people, but they don't actually know me, and they
Speaker 1: just have an expectation of who I am. So I
Speaker 1: wrote sellah, and I wrote this story because I just
Speaker 1: wanted to give someone a chance to be, like, to
Speaker 1: free themselves of other people's expectations. Yeah, do you think
Speaker 1: you did it? Yeah? I do in a way that
Speaker 1: you're happy with it. Yeah, I'm really happy with it.
Speaker 1: I'm really happy with it. And I also like, like
Speaker 1: I watch it at the premiere and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe we should have done that. Oh maybe we could
Speaker 1: have done that. Oh this could be short of them
Speaker 1: know if this should be longer, Oh we should this
Speaker 1: should be louder like I feel like I'm always going
Speaker 1: to have that feeling, Like if I look at this
Speaker 1: movie ten years from now, like I would cut a
Speaker 1: completely different version of it, it would be a totally
Speaker 1: different though. That's just normal, right, Yeah, Like that's normal.
Speaker 1: So I'm very happy with where we ended and what
Speaker 1: we have before you get to the end of this,
Speaker 1: the false starts of getting the money and losing the money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that is a process not often talked about.
Speaker 1: I agree. I think people are probably interested in that
Speaker 1: deep humanizing and upsetting a very real part of doing this.
Speaker 1: You want to do it? What was that like for you?
Speaker 1: It was hard? But do you know a lot about Beyonce.
Speaker 1: I don't know here Beyonce him, you know who she gets.
Speaker 1: I know, I know I hurt about her. She makes
Speaker 1: she married to somebody, she had a sister. I don't
Speaker 1: really know. Well, I love Beyonce And she says in
Speaker 1: this interview that something I think it was like twenty
Speaker 1: fourteen that I really liked has really helped me a lot,
Speaker 1: where she says, you know, I'm Beyonce, and I know
Speaker 1: people think I'd never fail, but sometimes I fuck up.
Speaker 1: But I fail, and when I do, I give myself
Speaker 1: the entire rest of that day to just feel awful
Speaker 1: about myself. I like just feel really sad and really
Speaker 1: like down and like feel like everything is done and over.
Speaker 1: But then the next day when I wake up, I
Speaker 1: have to get back to being Beyonce. And I was like,
Speaker 1: oh shit, that's dope as hell. So I kind of
Speaker 1: tried to, like I when I heard that in twousand
Speaker 1: fen I think, or maybe it was twenty thirteen, I
Speaker 1: just tried to do that. And it was hard, because
Speaker 1: you feel like you bear your soul to people and
Speaker 1: ask them to give you money and believe in you,
Speaker 1: and when they say no, that's like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: are they saying no to me as a person, as
Speaker 1: a human being. And that's how it felt to me
Speaker 1: every single time, not like they're saying no to the project,
Speaker 1: but like they're saying no to me as a person.
Speaker 1: And so rather than trying to like psych myself out
Speaker 1: of that immediately, I let myself feel that too, Like
Speaker 1: I let myself feel it, and I let myself feel
Speaker 1: really sad and really bad. But then the next day
Speaker 1: I had to stop, like I had to just move forward.
Speaker 1: So it was hard, but yeah, to be honest. Every
Speaker 1: time we got we didn't get the money, and every
Speaker 1: time it felt like we failed, I felt like it
Speaker 1: was because of me, not because of the project. Something
Speaker 1: about you, Yeah, something about me. And I don't have
Speaker 1: advice for that. I think that just might be how
Speaker 1: I take rejection sometimes. But but I think that's fine
Speaker 1: because I mean, I figured out how to move past it. Well.
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask was there ever a moment in
Speaker 1: the process where you thought, you know, maybe it's not
Speaker 1: meant to be. No, it's gonna happen. Yeah, I know
Speaker 1: it's gonna happen, because I was like, it's sort of
Speaker 1: like again, I'm really hard headed, and once I know
Speaker 1: I have to do something, I just I gotta do it.
Speaker 1: I just have to do it. I can't not do
Speaker 1: it no matter what. Like, yeah, there's no world where
Speaker 1: this movie wouldn't have happened. It could have been a
Speaker 1: different type of movie or like a different version of it,
Speaker 1: but it was always gonna happen and I knew that,
Speaker 1: and which that also helped the rejection because I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: sure this wasn't meant to be, but something is because
Speaker 1: this story is going to happen. It's gonna happen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what did you learn about making movies on the set?
Speaker 1: I'm good at it, like not to like sound, you
Speaker 1: know whatever, Who cares? I'm a good director? I really am.
Speaker 1: I think that this is what I've been told. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the things that make my
Speaker 1: friends want to be friends with me and you know,
Speaker 1: keep my family loving and supporting me are good qualities
Speaker 1: that make my crew and my cast feel supported and
Speaker 1: respected and like they're collaborators and equals, because that's how
Speaker 1: I think of people like. I think one of the
Speaker 1: shocking things that I learned in this process is that
Speaker 1: is how maybe not undervalued, but kind not but sort
Speaker 1: of like forgotten about below the line folks are. And
Speaker 1: it was shocking to me because I was on set.
Speaker 1: I saw how much everybody did, Like all of our
Speaker 1: jobs were hard, we all worked our asses off, all
Speaker 1: of us were exhausted, and some of us worked even harder.
Speaker 1: But because you're below the line, we'll forget about you.
Speaker 1: And that I just don't. I'm not into that. I
Speaker 1: hate that, and I don't want my sets to ever
Speaker 1: feel hierarchical in that way. I don't want them to
Speaker 1: feel like I am the boss and you all are
Speaker 1: my minions because I don't think of them that way.
Speaker 1: I think of everybody as a collaborator. And I think
Speaker 1: that because of that, and because I was very clear
Speaker 1: about that from the start, we got a lot of
Speaker 1: great work out of people, Like we got a lot
Speaker 1: of great ideas from people, and everybody was just again,
Speaker 1: just working in service of this story, and everybody was
Speaker 1: just believed in the story and just propped it all
Speaker 1: up with all of our hands together, and it was
Speaker 1: stronger for it. It is stronger for it. So I
Speaker 1: think that was the biggest thing that I learned on set,
Speaker 1: is that just because other sets don't work that way
Speaker 1: necessarily doesn't mean that my set doesn't have to work
Speaker 1: that way. I can create the energy that I want
Speaker 1: this project to be born from. Yeah, that's good. At
Speaker 1: the end of the movie, um, there's a title, there's
Speaker 1: a card that comes up and says a film by
Speaker 1: us all. Yeah, And I was talking to Michael. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love Michael yeah so much. Yeah. And I said
Speaker 1: to him, he's also making movies, yeah, I said, And
Speaker 1: he's good. Yeah, I've not seen it at im, And um,
Speaker 1: I am making movies at the idea of doing that,
Speaker 1: to say, a film by us, all yeah, I said that.
Speaker 1: I like, I don't know if I'm a good enough
Speaker 1: person to do that, And he's like, yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: think about himself and about me to think that's okay
Speaker 1: to ourselves. I don't know. I mean that's I was
Speaker 1: really impressed by that. I was. I was really I
Speaker 1: thought that was very genuine. Yeah, I mean that's how
Speaker 1: I feel, so like, that's it's but you know, that's abnormal.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that it was. I like, I mean,
Speaker 1: I understand that I don't usually see it, but I
Speaker 1: didn't understand that it was abnormal until my crew came
Speaker 1: up to me and they were telling me how happy
Speaker 1: and grateful we were. And I didn't want to downplay
Speaker 1: their gratefulness, but I just I wanted to be very
Speaker 1: honest with them, like this is, this is earned, Like
Speaker 1: this is very deserved, this is like this is I
Speaker 1: do not feel like I understand a tourism and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. But the idea that everything is because of
Speaker 1: me alone is a lie. It's not true. We all
Speaker 1: put ourselves into this. We were all there, we are
Speaker 1: all a part of it. And I do believe that
Speaker 1: we all deserve credit because I just it's not fun
Speaker 1: doing it alone. I'd rather have a community. I would
Speaker 1: rather be a part of something with people. And I
Speaker 1: think that's okay. What's something you learned about directing by
Speaker 1: the end of the shoot that you wish you knew
Speaker 1: in the beginning that I wish i'd known in the
Speaker 1: beginning first film? Yeah, yeah, Crewe was a little under
Speaker 1: forty people. I think, yeah, yeah, God, that's hard. Uh.
Speaker 1: I think that it's not something that I wish. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess it is something I wish that I had known.
Speaker 1: I wish that I hadn't. I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like, well, it was like, I like this idea
Speaker 1: about you know, film bias all in that sort of
Speaker 1: community that I wanted to one set. I assumed that
Speaker 1: that is the way that it should be me and
Speaker 1: that everyone was used to it. But so I wish
Speaker 1: that I had at the very beginning communicated that it
Speaker 1: was a film by us all to everyone, so they
Speaker 1: knew that that was how I felt that they didn't
Speaker 1: have to wait until the end or like halfway through
Speaker 1: to realize how appreciative, not appreciative, but like I feel
Speaker 1: like they felt it every day and that's why we
Speaker 1: got the work that we did. But I wanted to
Speaker 1: explicitly state you are here and you are a part
Speaker 1: of this. You are a collaborator, and you are important
Speaker 1: to me. So I think that's like something that I'll
Speaker 1: take away is to just make sure that people know
Speaker 1: that going in, because I think I just want people
Speaker 1: to feel that. I don't know, I just want people
Speaker 1: to feel that, Yeah, that's nice. Yeah, whatever emotional about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. Oh, you finished the movie? When did you guys? Rap?
Speaker 1: We wrapped on July twenty fifth, I think maybe the
Speaker 1: twenty sixth, but then we did a day of pickups
Speaker 1: on December twentieth. She was kind of pushing it, but
Speaker 1: we got it done. Yeah. So from July to here,
Speaker 1: what has the process been like of getting in the
Speaker 1: sundawns but finishing the movie time for the festival and
Speaker 1: now that you're here. Well, we originally submitted a rough cut,
Speaker 1: in a very rough cut, I think it was. Then
Speaker 1: we got a late deadline too, like October twentieth, and
Speaker 1: then I remember that we sented it on a Friday
Speaker 1: and then on Monday, they said, this is great but
Speaker 1: send us another cut in a week and then we'll
Speaker 1: let you show. And I was just like, this feels awful.
Speaker 1: This feels terrifying and awful. In My editor and I
Speaker 1: both were like, I wish they just hadn't said anything
Speaker 1: at all. But then we, you know, we decided like
Speaker 1: we're not going to think about what they expect it
Speaker 1: to be a week from now. We're just gonna do
Speaker 1: what we were gonna do. We're just gonna keep working.
Speaker 1: And then we submitted it again and then we heard
Speaker 1: back and it was good news. The processes of editing
Speaker 1: was actually really fantastic because I adore my editor. You
Speaker 1: have like a really great shorthand communication style with each other.
Speaker 1: It's Kate Abernathy. She's extremely talented, and she's also just
Speaker 1: like a great friend and like a fun person to
Speaker 1: be around. So that was really relaxing in a way.
Speaker 1: But it's also like it was relaxing and it was
Speaker 1: like it felt more academic than the process of production
Speaker 1: did in a way, like I was in school again,
Speaker 1: and I liked that feeling. And I think it's partially
Speaker 1: because of Kate's energy. She's just like a very like
Speaker 1: that's interesting. I'm going to think about that, and then
Speaker 1: she'll think about it, and then she'll come back and
Speaker 1: come back with a response, and I just she's so
Speaker 1: thoughtful and it makes you want to be thoughtful too.
Speaker 1: So like it helped to have her around because they're
Speaker 1: like again, like that, take a deep breath and just
Speaker 1: like be present in the moment in this room, editing
Speaker 1: this movie with Kate, And that was great. So that
Speaker 1: process was good. You get into the festival, yeah, something
Speaker 1: that happened when they announced this year. Yeah, they have
Speaker 1: new programming and one of the big things that they're
Speaker 1: emphasizing is making sure you know, I think it was
Speaker 1: women are filmmakers, Yeah, films, which is unprecedented, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: overdue and all that. But I was thinking about it
Speaker 1: in relation to you because earlier talking about back in
Speaker 1: the college and in high school being this percentage percentage. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm wondering, do you feel any of that now
Speaker 1: here still in twenty nineteen, even though you are very
Speaker 1: different than who were there. I do, But I get it,
Speaker 1: like I get why it's important. It's because it's because
Speaker 1: the percentages have been so bad that we have to
Speaker 1: keep track of the percentages. Like I get it, but
Speaker 1: you better ask me about my work as an artist
Speaker 1: first period, Like, don't treat me like, don't focus on
Speaker 1: whatever percentages you're quantifying me with or as focus on
Speaker 1: me as a filmmaker. Focus on the story as a
Speaker 1: story first, and then I'm down to talk about anything
Speaker 1: as long as you're doing both. You're not just like
Speaker 1: talking to about women's issues. That's it, right, black people
Speaker 1: about black people issues. That brought it up, I know,
Speaker 1: so like as long as in which I think like
Speaker 1: a lot of the interviews that we've been doing in
Speaker 1: the press have been doing that, And I think it's
Speaker 1: partially because the story itself is so different than what
Speaker 1: people are used to and the way that it's presented.
Speaker 1: This story about teenagers like might be a little bit
Speaker 1: different and a little not shocking, but like unexpected. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so there's a lot of stuff to talk about
Speaker 1: before we even talk about the fact that I'm black
Speaker 1: and I'm a woman. Have people made the compared and
Speaker 1: trash thing with dear white people they used to before
Speaker 1: they saw the movie not anymore, which is good because
Speaker 1: like whenever people would bring that up, I would say them,
Speaker 1: it's really not dear white people at all like Dear
Speaker 1: White People is very much a movie that is I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it was written and created
Speaker 1: with white people in mind and helping white people consider
Speaker 1: black people and black issues with empathy. Whereas I think
Speaker 1: my film, in this story and everything I've ever made
Speaker 1: is made for the like it's it's made people who
Speaker 1: look like me, to be quite honest, and it's just
Speaker 1: there's no short like, no, I'm not going to teach
Speaker 1: you about what it feels like to be black because
Speaker 1: there's not explanation. Yeah, there's no explanation. You're just dropped
Speaker 1: in the center of it, and if you want to
Speaker 1: catch up, you'll catch up. And if you don't, then
Speaker 1: are you thinking about that in the process of saying, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just not interested in explaining this to people, Yes,
Speaker 1: totally you are. It's a conscious thing, yeah, because I
Speaker 1: like when I don't like watching something and feel like
Speaker 1: I don't like watching something that it's almost marketed like
Speaker 1: it's for me and like buy people like me and
Speaker 1: about people like me, and then I watch it and
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, no, you're not talking to me, because
Speaker 1: I already know what it's like to be black. I
Speaker 1: know what that feels like. I've lived that. You don't
Speaker 1: have to like sit here and like say to me,
Speaker 1: this is what it is like. I know what it's like.
Speaker 1: So now I've realized, like those shows exist, they exist,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, they exist, and they're they're doing and
Speaker 1: they're doing really well. And I understand why they exist
Speaker 1: and I get what they're doing. Like I know which
Speaker 1: ones are talking. Yeah, but they're not for me, and
Speaker 1: I'm not going to make those So that's fine. Here's
Speaker 1: what I'll say, without naming anything. I think that's a
Speaker 1: good idea. I can. You probably shouldn't. I shouldn't think
Speaker 1: even I can. I willn't. I will say them not
Speaker 1: being for me is not why I'm not interested in.
Speaker 1: It's that they're not good. Yeah, well that's my feeling.
Speaker 1: And we're not even saying that, but we know the
Speaker 1: ones we're talking. Yeah, making stuff is hard, of course,
Speaker 1: it's so hard. It's of course, and also a lot
Speaker 1: of the conversation. Um, I think even we can talk
Speaker 1: about it within the movies that are got nominated, like
Speaker 1: the whole interhapsy Green Book thing. You know, here here,
Speaker 1: here's this is my theory on it. You would never
Speaker 1: talk about that movie. If it wasn't nominated for a
Speaker 1: Best Picture, it would be a thing we made fun of, ye,
Speaker 1: and we would be happy to make fun of it
Speaker 1: gone and it would be gone. But since we have
Speaker 1: given an attention, we have to consider it in a
Speaker 1: serious way. Yeah, and that is the difference of where
Speaker 1: we're at. Yeah, that's why we're like scrutinizing it. It's like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make fun of the things we're not naming,
Speaker 1: but our winning awards. Yes, but how does that play
Speaker 1: into your own writing? Are you? Are you? Do you ever?
Speaker 1: This is what I really want to ask, Yeah, do
Speaker 1: you ever write something? And you're like, no, can't because
Speaker 1: of a larger ideological reason, a larger reason in poor
Speaker 1: place in the world. No, Like from the very first
Speaker 1: story about Selah, for instance, she was a black girl
Speaker 1: who ran a drug rink out of her high school.
Speaker 1: So it was like it was there, it was always there,
Speaker 1: And like I would have investors and people say, like
Speaker 1: all kinds of people who I love and respect say, oh,
Speaker 1: you can't have a story about black kids dealing drugs
Speaker 1: because it damages the images of black people. And I
Speaker 1: would say, yeah, but what if they just want to
Speaker 1: deal drugs, why can't they do that? Why like, why
Speaker 1: can't they beat that be a part of their lives?
Speaker 1: It doesn't come it's like it was, like it is
Speaker 1: now like it's not about that, Like that's not what
Speaker 1: the story is about. Even that's just a part of
Speaker 1: who they are and that's fine. Oh my god, I
Speaker 1: know you would think that that what I'm just saying, Well,
Speaker 1: it was just a very is myopic the one where
Speaker 1: you're like super shortsighting Just yeah, it's like a very
Speaker 1: myopic way of thinking about the story. Myopic. It's myopic,
Speaker 1: like your version myopic. Myopic. It's myopic, but it's a
Speaker 1: very myopic way of thinking about the story, focusing in
Speaker 1: on black kids drugs. We can't do those things together
Speaker 1: a story or else we're damaging the image of black people.
Speaker 1: It's like, no, these kids are badass, I'm not damaging anything.
Speaker 1: There's other stuff they're doing that like it's just people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're just doing things. People do things, like that's it.
Speaker 1: That's all I want to do is tell stories about
Speaker 1: people doing things. I don't want to have to think
Speaker 1: about things that I can't have black people do because
Speaker 1: they're black people. I'm never going to do that something
Speaker 1: I thought was interesting. I'm now I'm glad we're coming
Speaker 1: up at this at forty seven minutes. At this point
Speaker 1: you've probably seen the movie at least you should. Something
Speaker 1: early on in the film that's explicit is that the
Speaker 1: protagonist is like obviously devious, yeah, cutting smart wise beyond
Speaker 1: her years. But also you add this thing where she
Speaker 1: is like virginal. Yeah, why was that? Was that was
Speaker 1: that intense? Was that like something from the beginning that
Speaker 1: you thought that was a fascinating counterpoint to her sort
Speaker 1: of like reckless drug dealing behavior. I don't think of
Speaker 1: her as virginal. You're talking about like the same where
Speaker 1: they're talking about making out and stuff. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1: I never think of her as virginal. I always think
Speaker 1: he was asexual. Like I just think of her as
Speaker 1: like she And we talked about this in production too,
Speaker 1: and that's how I directed her where, which is interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that was really important to me, the idea
Speaker 1: that a teenage girl shouldn't have to be concerned with that,
Speaker 1: and it's like they're our teenage girl. There are people
Speaker 1: everywhere who are asexual and like who can just who
Speaker 1: deserve to be able to have conversations about that without
Speaker 1: being shamed for not doing something. Um. And So the
Speaker 1: thing that I love and have always loved about Sella
Speaker 1: is that she's so focused on these other things that
Speaker 1: is just it doesn't really come up for her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I love that conversation between her and Paloma because
Speaker 1: I think usually it would be Paloma the one. Paloma
Speaker 1: is the one who hasn't done anything and like doesn't
Speaker 1: really get like into relationships or whatever, but Puloma is
Speaker 1: like the album like, Poloma is super into everybody, and
Speaker 1: she like wouldn't make out with anyone if she was interested.
Speaker 1: And I just love that about their characters, that they're
Speaker 1: so they're able to connect without it being a big
Speaker 1: deal that they're so different in that way. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: like that. It was fascinating that that was one of
Speaker 1: the big surprises from I was like, Oh, that's interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not we're talking like a movie like Clueless. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: movies of course, but the movie is also entirely preoccupied
Speaker 1: with the whole thing's boyfriend. Yeah exactly. That's a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff made for teenage girls even now. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: so much of it is about who will I be,
Speaker 1: who will love me, who will want who will want me?
Speaker 1: And Risilla It's like I want me, I love me,
Speaker 1: so everybody else better get in line. Well, so tell
Speaker 1: me what do you want for yourself? Now that this
Speaker 1: movie is done? It will be bought and distributed, it
Speaker 1: will be I'm just saying. I am to have no
Speaker 1: insider information. We have not talked about this. We had
Speaker 1: it by the time this episode airs. I hope it
Speaker 1: has bought. Thank you for that. I believe it will
Speaker 1: be at some point whenever the yeah, whatever supposed to
Speaker 1: be the right home all the same, What do you
Speaker 1: want for yourself now now that you've made this first movie?
Speaker 1: What's the kind of story do you want to tell? Um?
Speaker 1: All kinds? I want to like. I love sci fi,
Speaker 1: I really want I just because I started as soon
Speaker 1: as I said I love sci fi, I was thinking
Speaker 1: about how much I want to turn or like do
Speaker 1: Ender's Game the right way and like do justice to
Speaker 1: that story, even though I don't want to give or
Speaker 1: in Scott Card any money at all. Yeah, so that's
Speaker 1: a really hard A few years and I'm just like waiting.
Speaker 1: I've got ideas, but I want to do everything, like
Speaker 1: I write, I really want to. I'm working on a
Speaker 1: collection of like interconnected short stories that I want to release. Um,
Speaker 1: I want to make another multimedia project. I want to
Speaker 1: do TV. I love TV. I love series I love
Speaker 1: I want to adapt a book into a limited series.
Speaker 1: Like There's all this stuff that I'm working on, and
Speaker 1: I just want to do everything. I just want to
Speaker 1: see what I like, and I can't know until I
Speaker 1: try it. You have a very very good temperament, thank you.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a bunch of people in our community
Speaker 1: and there are varying degrees of anxiety around yeah, what
Speaker 1: the future looks like? Yeah, but it seems like you're
Speaker 1: fine with how it looks. I mean, I understand that,
Speaker 1: like I I like, luck plays a factor into where
Speaker 1: I am right now. I mean, obviously, I have worked
Speaker 1: very hard to get here, and I deserve to be here,
Speaker 1: and I know that, and like I've worked really fucking hard,
Speaker 1: but like, yeah, like really hard. But luck, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't. If they do, then they haven't told me
Speaker 1: to my faith, But I know that I'm young. I'm
Speaker 1: only twenty eight. I'm turning twenty nine in March. And
Speaker 1: I understand that sometimes it takes people longer to get
Speaker 1: to where I am, and I think that that's fine.
Speaker 1: I don't think that it says anything about who is
Speaker 1: better than the other. I think it's a lot of luck. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so I think part of my chill timperament
Speaker 1: about the future is that I'm here right now and
Speaker 1: I'm twenty eight and I get that, and I'm fine
Speaker 1: with that. But it's also just that, to be totally
Speaker 1: honest with you, I'm kind of chill, which kind of
Speaker 1: throws people off sometimes because they're like, you should be
Speaker 1: really excited and like really exuberant. I'm like, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: like it's cool. I'm meant to be here. I'm feeling great,
Speaker 1: so that's great. Yeah. Um, well, I am very looking
Speaker 1: forward to see what happens. Thank you. I'm sure things
Speaker 1: this is a larger conversation because I don't know when
Speaker 1: will release this, so I want this to exist outside
Speaker 1: of some dance. Okay, I'm a feeling this conversation won't
Speaker 1: end the sort of um, the larger conversation about diversity
Speaker 1: right now. There's a reason I haven't brought it up.
Speaker 1: It's because I'm really not interested in having that same dialogue. Yeah, again,
Speaker 1: for sure, it's been had, and I'm sure you've talked
Speaker 1: about it. I've talked about it. What I am interested
Speaker 1: in is how you're hoping to move forward in this
Speaker 1: space and not have to constantly have that on your mind.
Speaker 1: It is that possible? Am I being naive and even
Speaker 1: asking that question? Um? I don't think you're being naive
Speaker 1: because I think the people who are asking questions and
Speaker 1: the landscape or like the diversity of those folks is
Speaker 1: changing those folks is terrible. It sounded weird, sounded weird,
Speaker 1: but I think it's okay. Yeah, different kinds of people
Speaker 1: are becoming the gatekeeper, so to speak. Are they're becoming
Speaker 1: the ones who ask the questions of the artists and
Speaker 1: the filmmakers. And because of that, we're able to talk
Speaker 1: about different things because like we know, both of us
Speaker 1: know what it's like to be otherwise, and neither of
Speaker 1: us is really interested in continuing that right now. So
Speaker 1: I think because of that, things are changing, and I
Speaker 1: think it's totally possible. And I also think it's because,
Speaker 1: like I said earlier, because the story itself is so
Speaker 1: unusual in many ways and is told in an unusual way,
Speaker 1: in a way that confuses some people and makes people
Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable. There's so much other stuff that they have
Speaker 1: to get through before they can even get to like
Speaker 1: diversity questions, And that was not intentional. But I love it.
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it so much. So you're optimistic, yes,
Speaker 1: I am, but that's just me as a person. People
Speaker 1: are rarely optimistic on your many subjects. I'm going to
Speaker 1: be maybe only being too optimistic, which you know that
Speaker 1: means they've had to deal with this shit for longer. Well,
Speaker 1: I'll check in with you in five years. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Hopefully it'll be better. Parachute, you've done your first podcast.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for
Speaker 1: having me. Special thanks this week to Tyresha Poe. To
Speaker 1: learn more about her new movie, Selah and the Spades,
Speaker 1: you can do so at their website at Sella and
Speaker 1: the Spades dot com. To learn more about her, you
Speaker 1: can visit our show notes at www dot tk easypad
Speaker 1: dot com. They're on the site. You'll find other conversations
Speaker 1: we've had with directors, including Alex Ross Perry, whose new
Speaker 1: movie Her Smell is Out, manhal Bag, Paul Dano, Patrick Wang,
Speaker 1: Alma Ashante, Colman Domingo, Vincent Dinofrio, so many more directors
Speaker 1: on the site. If you don't like using websites, you
Speaker 1: can find every episode of the show on iTunes, SoundCloud, Spotify,
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Lastly, if you would like
Speaker 1: to help us out, we are a listener supported program.
Speaker 1: You can do so at venmo at talk Easypod. You
Speaker 1: can also do so on PayPal at talk easypod at
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. To learn more about how and where
Speaker 1: you can donate, you can visit our site at www
Speaker 1: dot talk easypod slash donate. As always, the show is
Speaker 1: executive produced by David Chen. Graphics by Ian Jones, illustrations
Speaker 1: by Christian Chanoy. Our intern is Elliott Weintraub. Our booking
Speaker 1: is Ian Chang. Our social media is Crystal Farmer. Our
Speaker 1: music is by Dylan Peck. And finally, i'd like to
Speaker 1: welcome our new producer to the show. His name is
Speaker 1: Neil Innes. We are lucky to have him. I'm San Fragoso.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Talk Easy. We will be
Speaker 1: back next Sunday with an Ebertfest centered episode. Uh I'll
Speaker 1: see it then.