Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey everyone, welcome to Talk Easy, a weekly podcast
Speaker 1: of interviews with fascinating people from all walks of life.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, San Fragoso. Thank you for tuning in.
Speaker 1: This week on the show, we have NBA Hall of
Speaker 1: Famers Spencer Haywood. But first, let's start when narratives. For
Speaker 1: more than four decades, the story of Spencer Haywood has
Speaker 1: essentially gone untold, tucked away deep inside the annals of
Speaker 1: old pre three point shot NBA. At long last, his
Speaker 1: amazing career as both a ball player and political advocate
Speaker 1: is on full display with full Court The Spencer Haywood Story,
Speaker 1: an insightful documentary that spans from his days picking cotton
Speaker 1: in rural Mississippi as a child to being inducted in
Speaker 1: the Naysmith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. He went to
Speaker 1: the Olympics, score a hundred and forty four points, colleges
Speaker 1: everywhere I wanted this young man. He saw what he
Speaker 1: needed to do and he was willing to fight for it.
Speaker 1: I don't think he realized the cost. Aside from being
Speaker 1: one of the best players the ABA ever had, Haywood's
Speaker 1: accomplishments include winning an Olympic Gold Medal, being a four
Speaker 1: time NBA All Star on teams like the Seattle SuperSonics,
Speaker 1: Rest in Peace, New York Knicks, and the Los Angeles Lakers,
Speaker 1: and perhaps most historically, Haywood fought against the four year rule,
Speaker 1: which stated that players could not enter the league until
Speaker 1: they were four years or moved from high school, meaning
Speaker 1: they either had to attend college or wait around from
Speaker 1: nearly half a decade had to turn their passion into
Speaker 1: a profession. Haywood's career paid the way for players like
Speaker 1: Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, and Kawamie Brown. Wait, someone doesn't
Speaker 1: fit there anyway. When I spoke with Haywood by phone
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, we talked about his tendency
Speaker 1: to be a savior NBA in the nineteen seventies and
Speaker 1: overcoming a troubling coke addiction. He was honest and raw,
Speaker 1: ready to open up about his amazing life and career. Spoiler,
Speaker 1: there is a moment where I'm trying my best to
Speaker 1: repress all emotions, but it is increasingly hard to do.
Speaker 1: Even listening to the episode now, haywood story, which was
Speaker 1: grossly forgotten for too long, is a powerful one, and
Speaker 1: I'm truly honored he decided to tell it on this podcast.
Speaker 1: So finally here's Spencer Haywood. Early on in the documentary,
Speaker 1: you mentioned how your mom, well your upbringing, I believe
Speaker 1: that you were. Did you did you use the term
Speaker 1: chosen one? Yeah, it was chosen one and gifted one.
Speaker 1: It was. I was born on April twenty second. My
Speaker 1: dad was April twenty second, and he had just passed
Speaker 1: a month before I was born. So it was you know,
Speaker 1: when you have the biblical background that my mom was
Speaker 1: dealing with, and also little African history of it in
Speaker 1: Native American history, because my grandparents were that way, so
Speaker 1: you know, they tend to look at things like, you know,
Speaker 1: like spiritually chosen this is the one, and it goes
Speaker 1: all the way back to the Biblical times, you know,
Speaker 1: people looking at that particular one. So I was born
Speaker 1: on that day. But also I was born with these
Speaker 1: extrange looking hands, and I was also born with four
Speaker 1: digits instead of good just so my hands were very long,
Speaker 1: and I was just a mean kid that came out.
Speaker 1: So that was the That was the conversation at the time.
Speaker 1: And so one of the old cotton pickers who because
Speaker 1: I'm from about a very small place and you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's about all about picking cotton, so he said.
Speaker 1: And I was told later that this boy is going
Speaker 1: to be the best cotton picker we have down these
Speaker 1: starts because because from my big hand. So yeah, that
Speaker 1: was the whole story of how I was how I
Speaker 1: was felt about it. And then you know, the neighbors
Speaker 1: would come over who had arthritis and start our baby.
Speaker 1: Let's say, young baby, feel your hand, you feel my knees,
Speaker 1: and get this arthritis out of that. Get feel of
Speaker 1: my hand. And for me, I was thinking about, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm going to get a COOKI out of this deal
Speaker 1: or some tist of roads. I could go to the
Speaker 1: store and brought me something. They get me a nickel.
Speaker 1: So so I you know, I beat into the whole
Speaker 1: idea like yeah, I am yeah, I'll use you up,
Speaker 1: you know, with me a Coca cola and I'm package
Speaker 1: to navs. You know. Shoot, I mean it's fascinating to
Speaker 1: me because did you not find being called the chosen
Speaker 1: one to be like intimidating, Like that's a big thing
Speaker 1: for your parents to say to you that you are
Speaker 1: special in that I mean every every parent tells the kid,
Speaker 1: you're special, you're great, But the chosen one, that's a
Speaker 1: big thing. Yeah, and it's a big thing. It was
Speaker 1: a big thing. But I would well and I and
Speaker 1: I as I was growing up, when I was twelve
Speaker 1: years old, I wanted this furniture for my mother because
Speaker 1: we've never had furniture in our home. And so I
Speaker 1: started cutting hair. I learned how to cut hair at twelve,
Speaker 1: and I cut low on swav but I had this
Speaker 1: more and my brother lawn more than my brother had
Speaker 1: fixed up. Police about to cut out on lawn, and
Speaker 1: and I started going all around the community, all over
Speaker 1: and cutting other people's lawn, cutting hair. And I made
Speaker 1: enough money to buy this furnish it and it was
Speaker 1: from something that I wanted to do. And I was
Speaker 1: twelve years old, I bought our first furniture in our house.
Speaker 1: And I bought it from guess who, Gordon Furniture. Gordon
Speaker 1: Furniture Company. Gordon Furniture was only by Charlie and Larry
Speaker 1: Gordon's father, the great producers. Yeah, well that's where I
Speaker 1: bought my first furniture up in Billsony from both from
Speaker 1: that family. So you bought this piece of furniture. You
Speaker 1: have that distinct memory. When was the first time you
Speaker 1: picked up a basketball. Well, I kicked up a basketball earlier,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't the kind of basketball that bounce, or
Speaker 1: it was the one that you Your mom made it
Speaker 1: for you. My mom made that's my best, my best,
Speaker 1: my first real basketball, because before then I was shooting
Speaker 1: uh uh brown balls, you know, cans and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So I was pretty proficient a butt. And then she
Speaker 1: just decided, or you know, because we were just begging her, please, Mom, Mom, Mom,
Speaker 1: can we have we need a basketball, we need boys,
Speaker 1: Please I'll make you one. I I was gonna make
Speaker 1: a basketball. And so she put together this this sack
Speaker 1: has gotten sack on coco, sat and put all of
Speaker 1: the clothing in there and along with a cotton because
Speaker 1: you didn't want to be that light and Lord and beyond.
Speaker 1: We had our first basketball. And then the basketball was
Speaker 1: just you know where you can't dribble it because it
Speaker 1: can't bounce, but you take imaginary bounce, you said, bo bob,
Speaker 1: and you make the pass or make the shots. And
Speaker 1: you were shooting into a barrel rom because we made
Speaker 1: a hoop up and and we used the barrel hoop
Speaker 1: because we wanted a big enough hoop so we could
Speaker 1: never miss. It's kind of the opposite of now where
Speaker 1: I think everyone dribbles way too much. It's just too
Speaker 1: much dribble. The catch there, the catch. Yeah. So when
Speaker 1: you're playing as a kid, uh, were you better than
Speaker 1: everyone else on the on the on the court at
Speaker 1: that time? No, I was the worst. You were the worst. Yeah.
Speaker 1: My dream was always when we got a ball that bounced,
Speaker 1: was to always get better than my brother Andrew, and
Speaker 1: he wanted to keep this foot on my neck. So
Speaker 1: it was just really a hard battle to say him,
Speaker 1: you know, hopefully keeping you at a level. And one
Speaker 1: day we were playing basketball in Peewee's backyard, and Peewee
Speaker 1: because his head was small, that's what we called the Peewee.
Speaker 1: And his dad name was his dad name was Birdhead,
Speaker 1: and the oldest son was called son and Sonny bird Head,
Speaker 1: and so his name was pee Wee. Great names for people,
Speaker 1: was the way. That's the way. Silver City was Silver City, Mississippi.
Speaker 1: So so we're playing basketball in his backyard and I
Speaker 1: was thirteen at that time, as I had just had
Speaker 1: harbor basketball experiences, and my brother was yelling that. He
Speaker 1: was like, you're never going to make it. You're never
Speaker 1: going to be as good as me. And the reason
Speaker 1: we are losing to these pound boards, which was over
Speaker 1: the tracks from where we live m and it's because
Speaker 1: he you Haunds, but the older than me and the
Speaker 1: bigger than men. He was like, I was like, what
Speaker 1: are you going to do? Yeah? And yeah. So I
Speaker 1: got so angry. I grabbed the ball off the rebound
Speaker 1: and I sprained up the fears and adult damn, and
Speaker 1: everybody was like, oh my god, what happened. And so
Speaker 1: that day I hit it was that you know, like
Speaker 1: if you playing any sports that period, you just hit
Speaker 1: shopping and it's something happened to you, and you said, Wow,
Speaker 1: I got it, I got it. I am great, I'm magnificent,
Speaker 1: I am all of this. So we played by the
Speaker 1: moonlight because sun went down, and we just played on
Speaker 1: and on and on into the night, and all of
Speaker 1: us years before when we finished the game and we
Speaker 1: won the whole series, and we were walking back under
Speaker 1: by the railroad tracks, going back home, back down in
Speaker 1: the old town of Civil City, and my brother said,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna walking beside me because I would always walked
Speaker 1: behind him, you know, not the right up shoulder to shoulder.
Speaker 1: But that day we walked side by side and we
Speaker 1: talked basketball. We talked about I love of what a
Speaker 1: great game it is, and we saw a cry with
Speaker 1: each other. And that was the day I said, Wow,
Speaker 1: this is my game, this is the day for me.
Speaker 1: And so and night I rushed to the to the
Speaker 1: playground until this guy's backyard. Again. The next day, my
Speaker 1: game had right. So I was a little disappointed, but
Speaker 1: it clicked in. Yeah. So that was the first time
Speaker 1: that your brothers seemed to like accept you in a way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was my first acceptance. Yeah. What age was that,
Speaker 1: thirteen thirteen? So this is right before you go to
Speaker 1: high school because in high school, yeah you did particularly well.
Speaker 1: Yeah I did, But you know that was just before
Speaker 1: high school. And so when I got to high school
Speaker 1: summer yeah no, no, no, before I even got to Detroit.
Speaker 1: But when I was in Mississippi, when I left a
Speaker 1: Woman's Hearts elementary school and then enrolled me into I
Speaker 1: graduated in from the eighth grade. I went into the
Speaker 1: ninth grade. I grew six inches. So everything that I
Speaker 1: thought I had in basketball done because I couldn't walk
Speaker 1: and chew Bubba Gama at the same time. So because
Speaker 1: you know Brown Paynes and and that kind of you know, Grosberg,
Speaker 1: it just happened to everything my coordination. I couldn't even
Speaker 1: walk straight. I couldn't even to walk a straight line.
Speaker 1: And then you have all of the high school coach
Speaker 1: easy Yella met me. You know you're going to be
Speaker 1: a player up here, and you did all this thing around,
Speaker 1: and we had other tall people. But I was like
Speaker 1: the new kid coming in town, and I couldn't. I
Speaker 1: couldn't quite get my name together. I couldn't. I couldn't
Speaker 1: let it. It just didn't happen. And then I tried
Speaker 1: to ask. I asked the coach, coach Charles Wilson. I said, listening,
Speaker 1: if my brother was on this team, it would make us,
Speaker 1: it would make us great, and also it would help
Speaker 1: me to develop. So I was promoting for Andrew and
Speaker 1: and he said to me, which was the profound statement,
Speaker 1: your brother is uncoachable. He is a renegade, which he was.
Speaker 1: He was uncoachable, and he was a renegade. So I
Speaker 1: was buck on my own and so I just I
Speaker 1: went to working on my game and stuff. But you
Speaker 1: eventually quite quite literally grew into it. I mean it
Speaker 1: seemed like, yes, I grew into it. By your senior year,
Speaker 1: were you pretty dominant? Yeah, well, I mean once I
Speaker 1: got out of Mississippi and got to Detroit, I met
Speaker 1: as a great coach, Will Robinson. And Will Robinson was
Speaker 1: just the master. He acted to be the first block
Speaker 1: coach and in and in NC to a history to coach.
Speaker 1: And so when I got to Detroit, my brother Leroy
Speaker 1: came over to Chicago and brought me over to Detroit.
Speaker 1: And we were just trying to be out of and
Speaker 1: maybe somebody would pick me up. But I didn't have
Speaker 1: a place that I didn't have family. I didn't have
Speaker 1: nobody to look after me and to be with anybody
Speaker 1: as a nodule. So we had to also do two deals.
Speaker 1: We had to get a place because because he was
Speaker 1: at Bowling Green State University and he I was up
Speaker 1: from Mississippi, didn't have anything. So Will Robinson sawed my
Speaker 1: our top and teller and he says, well, I'm going
Speaker 1: to take him. I'll take him in all about him
Speaker 1: along with his family name James and Ida balls Son,
Speaker 1: but the point guard on the team and so that's
Speaker 1: how I got to Detroit and started playing in Detroit.
Speaker 1: And my junior year we finished second in the city
Speaker 1: and second we didn't make it to the state. And
Speaker 1: then my senior year, the city of Detroit was going
Speaker 1: through a trap. They had been in the penny to
Speaker 1: the Class A state champions and thirty five years. So
Speaker 1: my dream was to take my team in the city
Speaker 1: of Detroit on my back to Class A state champions.
Speaker 1: Going back to flash back to Mississippi being a savior.
Speaker 1: So here I am now in Detroit. Now I'm the
Speaker 1: savior for a big city like Detroit. So there seems
Speaker 1: to be a real thing with you where you was it.
Speaker 1: I don't know that though I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I buy that. I think you positioned
Speaker 1: yourself in a way to be the savior and then
Speaker 1: in turn you become it. It could be I don't
Speaker 1: know what I was doing. That is true. You were
Speaker 1: just a seventeen eighteen year old kid, so yeah, I was.
Speaker 1: That was sixteen. I'm just doing something right, But I
Speaker 1: know that I can say you so I took on
Speaker 1: the bank. So yeah, when you were in high school,
Speaker 1: was your life completely consumed by basketball. When I was
Speaker 1: in high school. Um, I had to start all over
Speaker 1: again educational way, because my my grades were bad because
Speaker 1: we didn't do a lot of schooling in this ship
Speaker 1: because they had to shut down the school during harvest time,
Speaker 1: so we only win the school I had every year basically,
Speaker 1: so you just missed a lot of school because the
Speaker 1: most important thing is to harvest and plant, to cotton
Speaker 1: and do all these things. So when I got to
Speaker 1: the Persian, I met up at this great mentor and
Speaker 1: life coach, Wayne Diet. Doctor Wayne Diet was working on
Speaker 1: his doctorate and teaching that Persian High school. Where a
Speaker 1: miracle that was, And so he took me on the
Speaker 1: arm and we started. I spent hours of like reading,
Speaker 1: learning to write, learning to do all the things that
Speaker 1: I had kind of like missed out on in Mississippi.
Speaker 1: So that was my consumption was best. But basketball all
Speaker 1: that I loved that game at that time. I mean
Speaker 1: I played. I told you know, we would wouldn't hand
Speaker 1: a car with my friend widely had a car. We
Speaker 1: would drive all over the chour, would play anybody anywhere,
Speaker 1: the Pros, the Pistons, anybody, And I just loved me
Speaker 1: some basketball. At that point, I just loved playing. It
Speaker 1: was like it was better than sex or anything. It
Speaker 1: was just it really was because I hadn't had any
Speaker 1: so I hadn't had sex. So I was like, well,
Speaker 1: it's gotta be. If it's better than the basketball, I
Speaker 1: don't want that. So yeah, that was that was my gag.
Speaker 1: I was like, shoot, I loved this basketball. I think
Speaker 1: that that should be the new NBA slogan basketball better
Speaker 1: than sex. That's a good slogan. And think about it.
Speaker 1: It was better because I hadn't had any, so I
Speaker 1: was a virgin, So what big was You know, it's
Speaker 1: better than this. I don't want it. So I mean
Speaker 1: we played and played and then't we then dutiful thing
Speaker 1: about it? And my senior year Persian I who the
Speaker 1: great day being Hall of Famer from the Pistons, would
Speaker 1: bring the Pistons over and they were scrimmage with us
Speaker 1: because my coach Will Robinson and my dad was also
Speaker 1: the scout for the Pistons for the Detroit Pistons and
Speaker 1: the Lions, so they would like tell him coming over
Speaker 1: and played with my high school board and they were
Speaker 1: like come over and and we were giving them a
Speaker 1: good run because I had I was just I was
Speaker 1: just determined to do something and be something. And also
Speaker 1: that idea which we talked about earlier, where he is
Speaker 1: chosen and he's special, it's funk in my head because
Speaker 1: I mean I was to Detroit. It was like this
Speaker 1: country bucking and then how is he going to do
Speaker 1: all these things? So I just reflect back onto my
Speaker 1: town where everybody thought I was a special person. So well,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm special in Civil City, I must be special
Speaker 1: in De Dray. No. I mean it's understandable, It's completely understandable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let me ask you, do you think that given the
Speaker 1: way basketball and the system is set up now, Like
Speaker 1: a kid in high school is recruited heavily, Like there
Speaker 1: are people coming to the games, are offers, you know,
Speaker 1: secretly being made by colleges. There's all this stuff happening.
Speaker 1: You're talking about driving around the city and like playing
Speaker 1: all these pickup games. Do you think that even happens now? Oh?
Speaker 1: Absolutely enough, because you know you have a you you
Speaker 1: have all of the big shoe companies and all of
Speaker 1: the everybody's paying everybody under the table. They're doing all
Speaker 1: of these things because guess what, Remember, you are a
Speaker 1: student athletes. You can't get more money, you can't get nothing,
Speaker 1: you can't do this. So it's all about cheating, all
Speaker 1: about the scamming, the scamming. And you know, my boys
Speaker 1: can't play in this pickup game because you can't play
Speaker 1: in games like everything must be organize. You know, it
Speaker 1: runs through me, it runs through this person, that person,
Speaker 1: so and then they got to YouTube. They doctor them
Speaker 1: so they don't develop. But it's a whole other world.
Speaker 1: And and I'm not liking it because I think that
Speaker 1: it takes away from the purity of the game. It
Speaker 1: takes away from the honesty of the game. Because you know,
Speaker 1: if you know that you're being you're getting some chippies here,
Speaker 1: your parents are getting some chippies here, but we're not
Speaker 1: supposed to take them and everything, so you feel like
Speaker 1: you're like achievement in the criminal already, you know, been
Speaker 1: making you into this criminal act of just playing basketball.
Speaker 1: So I questioned that, and that's where you know my
Speaker 1: room land, the Hayward versus the NBA, the Spencer Hayward rule.
Speaker 1: I kind of questioned it because everything becomes you know,
Speaker 1: the student atholete deal where you got the Ncitua. It
Speaker 1: makes seven eight billion dollars, but the players who do
Speaker 1: all of the work, right, they get nothing. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean your ruling is is good and that it expedites
Speaker 1: the process between you know, high school ball and going
Speaker 1: to the NBA and making money. But the flip side
Speaker 1: is also problematic, right, I mean I don't I don't
Speaker 1: know if I buy the idea of student athlete at
Speaker 1: this point. I mean, no, no, you don't have a
Speaker 1: chance to be a student athlete. How I think you
Speaker 1: get a student athlete? Oh? Yeah, because you are. You
Speaker 1: got practice. It's a full time on the role. It's
Speaker 1: a full time job. You don't have times for studying.
Speaker 1: You're on the road, right. And I know they they
Speaker 1: work it out and they give the boss classes and
Speaker 1: they do all of these things, but all of it
Speaker 1: to perpetrate the idea that we are the student athletes,
Speaker 1: and we you're not supposed to make any money. But
Speaker 1: yet the most highest paid person on the state legislator.
Speaker 1: It's not the government, it's not anything. It is usually
Speaker 1: the football coach and the basketball coach and every particular
Speaker 1: state and every university that's the highest paid player, not
Speaker 1: the next player, the next highest paid person is the
Speaker 1: athletic director, and then you're going down and everybody makes money,
Speaker 1: the towel boys, everybody, the whole city makes money. But
Speaker 1: the player himself cannot take a hamburger. And they're doing
Speaker 1: all the work and taking all of the sacrifice. So
Speaker 1: there's that problem. And so they should be state employees
Speaker 1: just like the school. But uh, I think that also
Speaker 1: the universe would do themselves from good if they were
Speaker 1: to look at the idea of making these people hard
Speaker 1: of the payroll. Because you're the players, then you can
Speaker 1: you can justify some of the some of the madness,
Speaker 1: and then you can say, well, guys, I think and
Speaker 1: which would help the player to develop is to stay
Speaker 1: two years in college as opposed to one. And also
Speaker 1: it would help the professional leagues to sustain and to
Speaker 1: be valuable because it helps them to not push out
Speaker 1: the veterans on the back end. Now, I look at
Speaker 1: the new draft, this lottery everything, and I'm looking at
Speaker 1: all of the lottery picks and everything, and all of them.
Speaker 1: I'm in my ruling. But here's the catch. They are
Speaker 1: telling me that, Okay, this guy here, the number six
Speaker 1: player or the third player, he ain't developed yet he
Speaker 1: won't develop into two years down the line. But we're
Speaker 1: gonna take him number three and we're gonna push out
Speaker 1: a veteran on the back end. So the parents who
Speaker 1: come to those games with all of their hard earned money,
Speaker 1: they sacrifice them. Those people, the people who who struggling
Speaker 1: to make it to those games. Is the head that
Speaker 1: it And they say, well, don't worry. In two years
Speaker 1: he'll be a great player. But on your dying, on
Speaker 1: on your hard work, all your money, works so hard
Speaker 1: to earn to come to a game, and you your
Speaker 1: guys standing over there in the street clothes or in
Speaker 1: the basketball uniform, and and they're telling you what he's
Speaker 1: going to develop. And then we got to college who
Speaker 1: was telling them where you know, they can't get they
Speaker 1: can't even get insurance for his collisions or anything because
Speaker 1: they are student athletes. And they were set up the
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty six by the soul crazy cooking for the institua.
Speaker 1: It seems like this has been an issue for so
Speaker 1: this was an issue for you as well when you
Speaker 1: were at Trinidad State Junior College, right, yes, of course, yeah,
Speaker 1: so this was you went there, well, like it was
Speaker 1: sixty seven sixty eight, sixty sixty nineteen sixty seven, I
Speaker 1: left the high school and I signed with the University
Speaker 1: of Tennessee, the first black to sign with the University
Speaker 1: of Tennessee to go and play big time college basketball.
Speaker 1: But then there was a problem with the SEC because
Speaker 1: I mean, they didn't want to have blacks at that time,
Speaker 1: and they did have one. He was supposed to dem
Speaker 1: to go to Kentucky as opposed to Tennessee because Kentucky
Speaker 1: had just lost to five Blacks and against Texas West then.
Speaker 1: So with all of those rambles and all of that
Speaker 1: scrambling going on, then I was like, hey man, I
Speaker 1: gotta get out of here. So I took the route
Speaker 1: to go to Trinidad State Junior College because mister Robinson said,
Speaker 1: this is going to be a great place for you
Speaker 1: to develop. So I ended up down there at the
Speaker 1: Junior College and Low and Behold. In sixty eight for
Speaker 1: the sixth Daid Olympics, Kareem Abdul Jabbar with Cleon Selle,
Speaker 1: Elvin Hayes, Rob Lanier and all those guys boycotted the
Speaker 1: sixth DAID Olympics right so they couldn't take the freshman
Speaker 1: from from the major universities because they was in elsiworld,
Speaker 1: you have to be a sophomore to play in the
Speaker 1: nc to A. But they allowed the junior callers to
Speaker 1: bring our team for the trials. And I happen to
Speaker 1: be that freshman on the team and the best player
Speaker 1: on that on the junior college team. And when iber
Speaker 1: and all of the Olympics people saw me, they said,
Speaker 1: oh he is I answered for Kareem Alvin Hayes western
Speaker 1: Land Stair Bob. We got him right here, and he's
Speaker 1: nineteen years old. He's eighteen at the time. And hour
Speaker 1: of course, hell and nuts on me. He was like,
Speaker 1: oh wait, I'm man it here, You're gonna let up?
Speaker 1: Eighteen year old boy? Be it the one to carry
Speaker 1: us to go would never happened, or they picked us
Speaker 1: to finish last in the Olympics. Of course we finished
Speaker 1: first and it set records that stood for forty four years, scoring, rebounding,
Speaker 1: and the youngest player in the history of America. Give
Speaker 1: me backtrack for a second before Yes, you talked about
Speaker 1: you wanted to go to the University of Tennessee all
Speaker 1: this stuff in America is happening, then some of it
Speaker 1: is still happening now, can you. I mean, I want
Speaker 1: to know, like, what are what's that conversation like where
Speaker 1: they're telling you what that conversation was, Like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be all right, it's going to be difficult
Speaker 1: now because my whole thing was I wanted my family
Speaker 1: and my mother and everybody to see me when I played.
Speaker 1: I guess Mississippi State and the University of Mississippi and Oxford,
Speaker 1: so that was my big deal. But they didn't allow
Speaker 1: fans to come to the game, so I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: I was just looking for my big dream job to
Speaker 1: be able to play somewhere up north. But yet I'm
Speaker 1: in the South, you know. And boy, there was a
Speaker 1: lot of conversation that was a little bit different than
Speaker 1: what I thought I was getting into. I thought I
Speaker 1: was built for the for the past, but the start
Speaker 1: to get real political, and I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: what have I gotten myself into. I mean, you're an
Speaker 1: You're an eighteen You're an eighteen year old kid. I know,
Speaker 1: how are you responding to that? Like just Blay didn't
Speaker 1: responding like this gross racism? I mean, how does that
Speaker 1: even do? How do you do that? But you see
Speaker 1: I was born with that serious racism in Civil City
Speaker 1: in Mississippi. I couldn't go into the bathrooms as a
Speaker 1: white own the bathroom. I couldn't drink the water it's
Speaker 1: white's only water. I couldn't walk on the streets it
Speaker 1: was a white's only streets. So I literally do that.
Speaker 1: So it didn't upset me. I just knew that it
Speaker 1: was wrong, but I was not going to you know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't going to form for my my game on
Speaker 1: my course. But I didn't realize from uh college standpoint
Speaker 1: that how deep the politics was at that time and
Speaker 1: how how does whole thing turned out to be something
Speaker 1: really different than what I thought it was. Do you
Speaker 1: think you were immune to it at a certain point, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I could have been. Could have been. I could have
Speaker 1: been while I was conscious because I had, you know,
Speaker 1: when been learning to read and write over again. I
Speaker 1: lived in Balm's bookstore in Detroit, and that's where all
Speaker 1: of black sister was coming alive to me in African
Speaker 1: world is to be them alive, because that's when when
Speaker 1: I was learning to read and write and learning to
Speaker 1: read proficiently. That's where they learned me had my balls
Speaker 1: in that in that bookstore, and I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I was conscious, but I wanted to make
Speaker 1: a difference. I wanted my mom to see me play.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's all I wanted. I She never see
Speaker 1: me play in high school, so my dream was to
Speaker 1: see me play in college. When I come down to
Speaker 1: beat Mississippi and Mississippi State, it sounds like there's a
Speaker 1: bad here between your consciousness and awareness of the inequity
Speaker 1: and injustice in America at that time. And then the
Speaker 1: flip side is, yeah, but I want to go pro
Speaker 1: and I want to do this and I don't give
Speaker 1: a damn about the racism. I'm just gonna do it. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I wanted to do it for one reason because my
Speaker 1: mother had been picking cotton since she was three years old, okay,
Speaker 1: and at that time her backhead went out, said had
Speaker 1: been picking cotton or fifty five years or more, and
Speaker 1: her backhead went out. So she was dragging a sack
Speaker 1: one hundred pounds, sat on her knees picking cotton. So
Speaker 1: when it came time for me to come up with
Speaker 1: the idea of going pro, I've been on the idea
Speaker 1: and said, yeah, I'll do it. Because the ABA, which
Speaker 1: was a rival to the NBA had lost out on
Speaker 1: Kareem do a Jabbar at the draft because he went
Speaker 1: to the NBA, And so they came after me, the
Speaker 1: second best college player in their mind, um, to see
Speaker 1: if I would like leave college and come to the ABA,
Speaker 1: to say that league. And I said, sure I would.
Speaker 1: That's what I do. I'm the safe you remember, that's right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So there I was in that situation. Man. I didn't
Speaker 1: choose it like that, but it came to me and
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I can say so right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you say yes, you go to the ABA, You're the
Speaker 1: star there. Crime goes in a different direction. What are
Speaker 1: you waking Bucks? What are Yeah? Was he Karee or
Speaker 1: was it? I think he was? He still the wall
Speaker 1: Louell Spender? Yeah, I think he changed. He changed eventually. Um,
Speaker 1: he changes after that our first or second year in
Speaker 1: Milwaukee and they said, oh, we don't want you in Milwaukee,
Speaker 1: not but that name. We don't want you here in
Speaker 1: Milwaukee's that they traded him into the LA UM What
Speaker 1: were those open he had won the championship not still
Speaker 1: wasn't enough? Yeah, I know, but I mean, you can't
Speaker 1: change your name. What's wrong with you. Have you ever
Speaker 1: told that before? We're always telling that. Hell, it's wrong
Speaker 1: with you. Man. You can't be changing your name. Your
Speaker 1: cotton take a let me, I mean run our test
Speaker 1: change his name. Well, I mean these guys today you
Speaker 1: can do it. And all my kids I got those
Speaker 1: funny kind of names. But back then you had to
Speaker 1: be John Joe. You had to have a name. Uh,
Speaker 1: just like just like a farmer who who was your
Speaker 1: slaver and slavers you had to have a slave name. Remember,
Speaker 1: for three years earlier, Mohammed Ali changed his name to
Speaker 1: Mohammed Ali from Testa state the whole world when eight ship, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: what were those opening years like? At the ABA? The
Speaker 1: opening year was like incredible because you know, like the
Speaker 1: NC two A and the NBA and everybody came after
Speaker 1: the ABA about breaking the four year rule. So by
Speaker 1: doing that day allowed this one players an exception to
Speaker 1: come in and play without finishing college four years. And
Speaker 1: that was the ABA hanging point. They were going to
Speaker 1: go after all of the college guys in the NBA
Speaker 1: had to wait four years, so they were going to
Speaker 1: survive that way. And so I was the showcase guy.
Speaker 1: They says, well, look if you can get it, uh
Speaker 1: five points or seven points and maybe five rebounds, we
Speaker 1: would prove our point. So that year I every thirty
Speaker 1: points and twenty a rebound, thirty points in twenty rebounds.
Speaker 1: When that when that stat came up in the movie,
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, hold on home, let me
Speaker 1: let me go look that up. What what the what
Speaker 1: the hell is that? That's not a real I was, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, and I'm you know, I was nineteen years old, right,
Speaker 1: and there's only been two There's only been two players
Speaker 1: to ever do that. And the other rookie is well Chamber,
Speaker 1: pretty good player, and Spec said, hey, well yeah, pretty
Speaker 1: good player in it. Yeah, so you were in the
Speaker 1: you were in the ABA for two years one year,
Speaker 1: one year, okay, one year, one year. Everything would have
Speaker 1: been great in the ABA. Guess what the ABA did
Speaker 1: after one year? After one the rookie of the year,
Speaker 1: leading school, leading rebounded, and beating of the All Star
Speaker 1: Game did everything for them, and they gave me a
Speaker 1: fraudulent contract. Right, a contract says from one point nine.
Speaker 1: But they gave it to me with the idea that
Speaker 1: we're gonna cheat him. We're gonna cheat him like a dog.
Speaker 1: For saving us. We're gonna give him a contract for
Speaker 1: one point nine but guess what, We're gonna put ten
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in this dog off plan with the stock market,
Speaker 1: and when he gets to be aged fifty to age seventy,
Speaker 1: he will draw that money at that time. But otherwise
Speaker 1: he dialed here for that, he loses all of it.
Speaker 1: Everything is done, mek market. Did you did you have
Speaker 1: someone helping you in those decisions? I mean, you're you're
Speaker 1: nineteen years old. No, I was being I trusted, I
Speaker 1: trust you trusted them? I was, and I was saying,
Speaker 1: why would I'm the mvut, I'm the wokie with the
Speaker 1: year I saved this league. I knew they wouldn't do
Speaker 1: something bad to me. So I signed the contract, and
Speaker 1: guess what, Just like in Mississippi, they came right back
Speaker 1: out like, oh my gosh, after an experience that, I mean,
Speaker 1: you seem like a hopeful human being and a positive person,
Speaker 1: and yet I mean like it was your faith in
Speaker 1: humanity shaking ever that because that's that's not that's not
Speaker 1: something where you leave and you're like, oh yeah, people,
Speaker 1: people are good. No, it was very shaken, and it
Speaker 1: was very shaken and it's nothing they could do to
Speaker 1: rectify that with me. So I ended up when the
Speaker 1: Seattle Supersonic said, well, you can sign with us. We
Speaker 1: will pay you the amount on that contract. We will
Speaker 1: give you the real contract that they didn't give you,
Speaker 1: and we will pay you. But even if you don't
Speaker 1: play this one year because you're not eligible in the
Speaker 1: NBA rules because you haven't finished your four years, four
Speaker 1: years after your high school plans had graduated, so we
Speaker 1: will pay you for that year. All we can fight
Speaker 1: the lawsuit and try execue to play this year. So
Speaker 1: I took it and ran with it because I was
Speaker 1: so hurt by what they had did to me and
Speaker 1: how they had treated and then and then they came
Speaker 1: to court telling the judge we had him under contract,
Speaker 1: he shouldn't assign him, and the Juxtais, well, yeah, but
Speaker 1: he had no legal representation and he was nineteen, sir,
Speaker 1: you can't do that to a young man. So they
Speaker 1: just went on and on and on about what we where,
Speaker 1: we cheated him, but what about it? And it was
Speaker 1: like really angry MASTI Mississippi type thing, and I was like,
Speaker 1: WHOA right? So they ruled in favor and they played
Speaker 1: that first year and then for several more years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well I know, but I mean in order to play
Speaker 1: I had to go all the way to the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1: And that was a battle that was so brutal and
Speaker 1: so hustle and so racist that it was just really hard.
Speaker 1: And to explain that the family kind of we kind
Speaker 1: of get into it with the family and show that
Speaker 1: this was a brutal, brutal experience. And if you think
Speaker 1: mom and all these change in his name was one thing,
Speaker 1: Kareem change in his name was one of the having small.
Speaker 1: This was like, you're breaking the college system as we
Speaker 1: know it. So the n SITTUA came out with all
Speaker 1: of their guns, you know, all of these universities for
Speaker 1: the biggest lawyers they could find to keep this from happening.
Speaker 1: The ABA came back now with all teams joined forces.
Speaker 1: We're gonna stop him from even leaving. We'll make him
Speaker 1: come back and play over here. And then the NBA said,
Speaker 1: we can't allow him to break our four year rule.
Speaker 1: This is the bedrock principle that we have. So here
Speaker 1: I am in the middle of state and the game,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh gosh. So that battle took place for
Speaker 1: one full solid year in the courtroom. I mean, what
Speaker 1: is that environment like, I mean, do you remember some
Speaker 1: of the exchanges you've had in there? Yeah, well, you
Speaker 1: know I remember the last one. But you know, one
Speaker 1: of the Jerry Brown's father was my lead counsel, the
Speaker 1: former governor at Brown Yeah, the big Hollywood man and
Speaker 1: the former governor of California. Yeah, he was one of
Speaker 1: my lead attorneys. We had Frank grew Altman. We had
Speaker 1: this super dream team that at that time, Sam Schulman
Speaker 1: spent two point one million dollars on that on that fire.
Speaker 1: And that's in nineteen seventy, you know, so really that's
Speaker 1: a lot of money. That's a lot of money. So
Speaker 1: so to hear it. So what happened was many times
Speaker 1: when I walked out on the floor, they would not
Speaker 1: say that they have an injunction. They didn't give me
Speaker 1: the they didn't they didn't serve me before in the
Speaker 1: locker room or anything. They wanted to embarrass and they
Speaker 1: wanted to beat me down spiritually. So they would serve
Speaker 1: me when I got rid of the jump ball at
Speaker 1: half court. I'm getting the jump ball the kickoff game,
Speaker 1: and they're like, hold it. Ladies and gentlemen, we have
Speaker 1: an illegal player on the floor number twenty four, and
Speaker 1: this injunction tonight is stating that he must be off
Speaker 1: the grounds. And what's this arena set on? So security
Speaker 1: come and take me off and put me out into
Speaker 1: the snow, way out into the backwoods. And I had
Speaker 1: to wait out there until the game was over with
Speaker 1: and then the bust will come by and pick me up.
Speaker 1: And what the other players on a never l I
Speaker 1: would given the bus hyperthermia because it was cold and prised,
Speaker 1: and I was like, whoa, this is some serious stuff here.
Speaker 1: And I got myself into and that went on for
Speaker 1: the whole season, off and on and off and on.
Speaker 1: It was a battle that was brutal. And so finally
Speaker 1: when I got to the Supreme Court and the case
Speaker 1: was being presented there, and third Good Marshall was like,
Speaker 1: oh no, we can't allow this to happen because under
Speaker 1: the Sherman Anti trust To Act, you cannot stop a
Speaker 1: person in America from making eleven for themselves. And that's
Speaker 1: how I won the case. And he told me at
Speaker 1: the time, says, okay, you won this case, son. Let
Speaker 1: me tell you in America, when you go against the
Speaker 1: system like you have done, you will be ostracised for
Speaker 1: years and years to come. So it's took forty five
Speaker 1: years for them to acknowledge what I've done, and not
Speaker 1: only that, but to acknowledge a ton of player I
Speaker 1: was at this young age. I'm the first an original
Speaker 1: player to ever do all of these things at age
Speaker 1: eighteen nineteen twenty, I said all of the records and
Speaker 1: pros as well as in the Olympics. I held that
Speaker 1: record for forty four years in college. I held that
Speaker 1: record for you. So you know, so all of it
Speaker 1: is coming full of fuckle with this fan. I just
Speaker 1: love this fam you're talking about. You're playing abilities, which
Speaker 1: which were great. We looked at I looked at the stats.
Speaker 1: I see the footage, the footage that one can find
Speaker 1: in this era that you're playing in the seventies. You know,
Speaker 1: Kareem is playing, Julius Irving's playing, Alvin Hayes is playing,
Speaker 1: Havlichick McAdoo. These are names people, Walt Frazier, I mean,
Speaker 1: my god, these are names people immediately recognize. And yet
Speaker 1: when I told people Spencer Haywood's coming on the podcast,
Speaker 1: I knew of you because I'm a I'm a basketball nerd,
Speaker 1: but there are people you're not. You're not you're statistically
Speaker 1: in the same breath as those people. But the judge
Speaker 1: was right. I mean, the auscarization of your career and
Speaker 1: you as a person rendered your career hard to find
Speaker 1: in the shadows, almost hard to find in the black ball.
Speaker 1: I've in black ball from history, from history books, from
Speaker 1: NBA records. They don't talk about me. They don't, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's like it's a hellable thing. And and and
Speaker 1: the great fit uh, the great the Marshall's College straight
Speaker 1: you told me. And so this is what the family
Speaker 1: is doing. It's enable and mean to be appreciated again
Speaker 1: and be appreciated as a ballplayer now at that same time,
Speaker 1: what you talk about all of those great players. I
Speaker 1: was All Pro first team and was like a second
Speaker 1: in the balloting for the MVP. Right, But you can't
Speaker 1: talk about him. What I mean, I know this, I
Speaker 1: lose You will lose your job if you're the boss
Speaker 1: you bring his name up. Yeah, in a way, I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean, in looking at your career now or just
Speaker 1: thinking about it. For a long time, people were recognizing
Speaker 1: the greatness of your career. Did it almost feel like
Speaker 1: it didn't happen. It feels it felt like it didn't
Speaker 1: happen then then and that's why at the end of
Speaker 1: my speech at the Hall of Fame, I explained that
Speaker 1: I did all of these great things for the best
Speaker 1: for all players and for people in sports, and I
Speaker 1: and asked the game in this great aspect. But my
Speaker 1: last statement was just hey, guys, and I was speaking
Speaker 1: to Lebron. I was speaking to all the players who
Speaker 1: questioned what kind of Playbory, Hey man, I had a
Speaker 1: huge game this time game. And that's what I explained again,
Speaker 1: and that's what they all amenders. So they go back
Speaker 1: and they google up're like, no, shit, he had a
Speaker 1: big game. This game. It was big. So when they
Speaker 1: see me now, the players, but the rants and the
Speaker 1: Lebron on they look at me like totally different, Like, oh,
Speaker 1: I get it now, You've overcome a lot. And I
Speaker 1: think something that's always something that's in your bio and
Speaker 1: that is recognizing the film. Is that. I mean towards
Speaker 1: the late seventies, you did you know drugs were part
Speaker 1: of the equation. Yeah, well we had a we had
Speaker 1: a drug crisis in the NBA had eighty percent at
Speaker 1: a time. So not that you know, I'm accusing the
Speaker 1: NBA or anybody like polishing over things. I just stayed
Speaker 1: from my personal experience. Yes, I did coke, and so
Speaker 1: I did it that year with the Lakers. I came
Speaker 1: there if that got recovered from my injuries with the
Speaker 1: New York Mix, I went down to New Orleans and
Speaker 1: that second half of the season average twenty eight and twelve.
Speaker 1: I came to the Lakers with that spe read at
Speaker 1: the ball and doing coke. I watched my game go
Speaker 1: down from from twenty eight twelve to seventeen and maybe
Speaker 1: ten by half season, and then down like three birds
Speaker 1: and two this season. Three fourths into the season, I
Speaker 1: was down to maybe ten and seven, and by the
Speaker 1: end of it, I was down to h seven points
Speaker 1: and five rebounds and thirty pounds lighter. So yeah, it
Speaker 1: took his toll. It had a grip on me that
Speaker 1: I did not understand. I didn't understand addiction. I didn't
Speaker 1: understand the drug at all. I had no control. So
Speaker 1: then I was able to doing a recovery. How many
Speaker 1: years was cocaine part of your life? That was only
Speaker 1: that one year, But That was a devastating year because
Speaker 1: then the NBA as well, this is our problem. It's
Speaker 1: not anybody else in the league. It's spent to anywhere.
Speaker 1: There's the problem. So we're gonna expelled him from the
Speaker 1: NBA without a trial, without a drug tests, without anything,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna send him. Not only could I go
Speaker 1: to the expansion team, or not only could I stay
Speaker 1: with the Lakers. In order for me to receive my contract,
Speaker 1: which I had two more years onto it, I had
Speaker 1: to be exiled to Italy. Was like almost like the
Speaker 1: island the pass Us or something, you know. I was
Speaker 1: exiled to Unnice, and so I had to. I took
Speaker 1: the weight. And when I saw the Magic Johnson and
Speaker 1: Larry bird Uh film, I was taking all of the
Speaker 1: way for us that at that time. And then when
Speaker 1: when when Donald Stirling when after Magic Johnson before they
Speaker 1: took the team from him, the first thing came out
Speaker 1: of Magic's mouth, especially, I was like, what the hell
Speaker 1: about that? Here? In that drug period of that one year,
Speaker 1: did people try to help you? No? Absolutely not. So
Speaker 1: they saw you and they just did I mean, they
Speaker 1: just didn't respond. My team makes my teammates did not respond.
Speaker 1: They were like happy. It was the most joyful time
Speaker 1: for a lot of my teammates because I mean, we
Speaker 1: finally got him, We got him off his high horse,
Speaker 1: and and I bet he lose that pretty wife he
Speaker 1: got to, you know. So it was a mean specter
Speaker 1: because you know, agents have a way of like Thomision
Speaker 1: players and making those players and evil of the players.
Speaker 1: Person who has just opened the door so they can
Speaker 1: come into the NBA. So they were rooting. They were
Speaker 1: rooting for your career to collapse, for rooting big time
Speaker 1: for de Paul and to prove it more or Morsel
Speaker 1: I played. I missed the same amount of games that
Speaker 1: Karen missed. At the end of the scene, they wouldn't
Speaker 1: allow me to be on the floor, It wouldn't allow
Speaker 1: me to get my rings. They wouldn't allow me to
Speaker 1: get a playoff share. They gave me a third of
Speaker 1: a playoff share. And I was and he's got to
Speaker 1: be he can't come back into the NBA. All of
Speaker 1: the players did that. It's madness, Yeah, right, it's madness.
Speaker 1: So this year and I mean, this is this is
Speaker 1: a rough year for anyone who. I mean, that's a
Speaker 1: lot to have that happened It's not like it was
Speaker 1: over a decade you were addicted to a drug. It
Speaker 1: was one year. No, no, no, one year. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: that year was just the over year. And then when
Speaker 1: I came back to the NBA after Italy, and I
Speaker 1: came back now hours like the comeback player of the year.
Speaker 1: I did numbers that was incredible with Washington. But yet
Speaker 1: when my wife a mine, who had the automobile accident
Speaker 1: at that time, and she was like, I was away
Speaker 1: from home and I had a young daughter to lake
Speaker 1: her mind at the time, she was all along and
Speaker 1: I had all of the Somalis. I had her mother's father,
Speaker 1: and her family was living in my home in New York.
Speaker 1: So I couldn't like walk on those people. I couldn't.
Speaker 1: They didn't teak the language, and they didn't know all
Speaker 1: this stuff. So I was a caretaker. So I retired
Speaker 1: to take care of my family. And then when I
Speaker 1: tried to come back, then they said no, you can't
Speaker 1: come back. That was then there he welcome to the NBA, sir,
Speaker 1: you know all of all the things you did to
Speaker 1: make us great, you are not a lot of back
Speaker 1: of all people. You know, you weren't just the caretaker though, No,
Speaker 1: you were. You're again you you were kind of the savior,
Speaker 1: weren't you, Yes, sir, that's to save the appair part
Speaker 1: of it. But I accepted, uh that I was, you know,
Speaker 1: and it goes back to what Thurgood Marshall talks about earlier.
Speaker 1: I accept my punishment. I accepted that it was going
Speaker 1: to be this way, and I knew it. I always
Speaker 1: stopt it. I don't know even when I was on
Speaker 1: top of my game, I could have like thirty five
Speaker 1: points and twenty five rebounds and then the article say
Speaker 1: they had a terrific game. But you know what eating
Speaker 1: black or two shots god you in order to do
Speaker 1: that's the black ball. That's the black ball. It's always president,
Speaker 1: you know, it's the presidents. There. You made a trip
Speaker 1: out to Egypt after all this happened, right and then
Speaker 1: this this was designed to be a sort of soul
Speaker 1: searching trip. It was definitely a soul searching trip, and
Speaker 1: that was also a history trip. I needed to know
Speaker 1: how did I get to this wretched part of reality here?
Speaker 1: I need to know who I am and who we
Speaker 1: are as people in order to understand this. So I
Speaker 1: traveled with doctor Ben and doctor John Henry Clark and
Speaker 1: doctor as Plate Crazy. I went studying African history from
Speaker 1: this in inception and it took me to Egypt and
Speaker 1: to Lloyd Egypt, all throughout Egypt, and it was it
Speaker 1: was an eye opening. So I said, at that point
Speaker 1: in time, man, never were a drug ever touched me
Speaker 1: because I have knowledge of self. And that was the
Speaker 1: turning point there, or a turning point that I would
Speaker 1: never ever get down and know the form whatsoever. That's
Speaker 1: a lot of discipline. It's a lot of discipline, but
Speaker 1: I always had discipline. I just you know, I trust
Speaker 1: and I'm and I kind of want people to like me.
Speaker 1: I wanted them to like me, but I didn't know
Speaker 1: that they would never like me. So I accepted it.
Speaker 1: In the long run, you accepted people not liking you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Before I wanted them to really like me. I wanted
Speaker 1: to prove myself that I'm not this bad person that
Speaker 1: went to the Supreme Court. I'm not this person. I'm
Speaker 1: the guy who says America and the Olympics tell the
Speaker 1: people who I am. But they wouldn't. They would never
Speaker 1: do it. Even when Durant broke my record at the
Speaker 1: forty four years, they would not. They didn't say they
Speaker 1: said Durant is broken the record of and then they
Speaker 1: didn't say my name. Twenty twelve, they didn't save my name,
Speaker 1: and then they said, okay, now Anthony Davis has become
Speaker 1: the youngest player and it's just America after forty four years,
Speaker 1: and like, well, I know they from the stakes and said, hey,
Speaker 1: what held it fall? If you know they didn't mention
Speaker 1: my name. It's just I know what this means. How
Speaker 1: are you not more angry? Because whom the devil wish
Speaker 1: to destroy him first must must make angry. And that's
Speaker 1: something you just some father. Yeah, yeah, I know. And
Speaker 1: anger it's your heart away to Yeah. Yeah, it destroys
Speaker 1: you from here within. So I have to let it
Speaker 1: go and have to let God's will be done and
Speaker 1: not my own, because otherwise I got too much an
Speaker 1: hour talk like I would tell the real story of
Speaker 1: what went on in eighty and all that stuff. So
Speaker 1: I rather not do it and let God be the judge.
Speaker 1: Right do you think like, um, I think your story
Speaker 1: is finally being told now correctly. Yeah, this is this
Speaker 1: is told correctly. I wouldn't say this, but I guess
Speaker 1: I can because you are a writer, so you know.
Speaker 1: But the real story is on the big screen. When
Speaker 1: it's done in a movie format, the documentary is like
Speaker 1: truly special and wonderful. It is. It is, It's impeccable.
Speaker 1: But I like to say it from from a movie
Speaker 1: standpoint as well. Right, well, um, I'm glad it's finally
Speaker 1: being told and uh yeah, and it's special, it is,
Speaker 1: and it's a special documentary, you know. I mean, people
Speaker 1: succeed this and say, oh my god, because said the
Speaker 1: missing history of Institua, the missing history of the Olympics,
Speaker 1: and listen, history of a basketball How do you our
Speaker 1: society the person who made it possible for you as
Speaker 1: a lead to explain from seventeen teams to thirty two teams,
Speaker 1: Spencer Haywood, how do you deny Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson
Speaker 1: and Larry Bird, Steph Curry, Kobe Bryant, Lebrian changed all
Speaker 1: of those people that in this history because they are
Speaker 1: under my ruin. It would not have been able to
Speaker 1: do it. I was explaining to Lebron. He was like, well,
Speaker 1: what do I mean by that? I said, Look, if
Speaker 1: you had to wait four years, you would have lost
Speaker 1: one hundred million dollars just in salary alone, and you
Speaker 1: would have lost every record that you hold right now,
Speaker 1: you would not have had any of those records. Same
Speaker 1: thing to Steph Curry, all of them. So how do
Speaker 1: you deny that person? The only thing that I have
Speaker 1: to mean on now is mistake. I mean, it's going
Speaker 1: to happen in God's time, not on nine because it
Speaker 1: didn't have whom when I thought it would. Right. It's
Speaker 1: interesting how things will never happen when you think they're
Speaker 1: going to exactly. So it goes back to back to
Speaker 1: the Mississippi. My mom used to say this, mahamming and Jackson,
Speaker 1: but he may not come when you're wing. Bertie's always
Speaker 1: right on time. There. Well, I'm certainly glad that I'm
Speaker 1: helping in some way tell your story, and thank you
Speaker 1: for it, and thank you for for your life. Honestly, honestly,
Speaker 1: it's um. Thank you so much, it's inspiring man. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for doing this. Okay, thank you a
Speaker 1: big thanks to Hilda for helping arrange this special interview.
Speaker 1: Full Court. The Spencer Haywood Story will be making the
Speaker 1: Festival rounds throughout twenty sixteen. It's currently in search of
Speaker 1: theatrical distribution. You can watch one of Spencer's many impressive
Speaker 1: basketball reels on YouTube. We've included a particular one in
Speaker 1: the show notes below. Lastly, a big thanks to Spencer
Speaker 1: Haywood for taking time to come on Talk Easy. Remember
Speaker 1: to subscribe the show on iTunes and SoundCloud or your
Speaker 1: favorite podcasting app. If you want to drop us a
Speaker 1: line about anything, emailed the show at talk easypod at
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. I promise I read and respond to
Speaker 1: every one of these. This is especially true this week
Speaker 1: because someone has emailed me about life choices moving forward
Speaker 1: and I'm down to play that role. So you can
Speaker 1: also follow the show on Twitter and Facebook at talk easypod.
Speaker 1: And lastly, if you have a spare moment in your
Speaker 1: busy day, please give us a review on iTunes. Our
Speaker 1: theme music is provided by Vanilla. Our executive producer is
Speaker 1: David Chen, Graphics by Ian Jones, Technical assistance by Kyle Manchell.
Speaker 1: The show is produced and edited by Coreya Tad and
Speaker 1: I'm your host Sanforco. So thank you for listening. I'll
Speaker 1: see you next ye Who is the best player you
Speaker 1: played against? The best player I played against? By far
Speaker 1: is screama builds your ball, hands down. And the best
Speaker 1: forward I ever played against, by far is Julius Arvey.
Speaker 1: And those of the two. Yeah no, I can't even imagine,
Speaker 1: all right, man, I had to know that, really, I
Speaker 1: really to know what that is. And the best player,
Speaker 1: the best player, the best player they ever played in
Speaker 1: the game. It's not that col Jordan, this queen. But
Speaker 1: because he's a troublemaker, because he's a troublemaker, he's down
Speaker 1: here with me, man,