Speaker 1: Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio and The Black Effect. If you or
Speaker 1: someone you love is thinking about suicide, or you're worried
Speaker 1: about a friend or a loved one and you'd like
Speaker 1: some emotional support, I want you to know that the
Speaker 1: Lifeline network is available twenty seven across the United States,
Speaker 1: So please call or chat the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline
Speaker 1: at two seven, three, eight to five. Hey, y'all, this
Speaker 1: conversation is going to be incredible with someone phenomenal. His
Speaker 1: name is Joe Barksdale, former NFL player who is just
Speaker 1: now a full time writer and artist, mental health advocate.
Speaker 1: He just was diagnosed with autism literally a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago in his adulthood. So get ready, really, really
Speaker 1: really please zoom in for this conversation with Joe bark Steal. Everybody.
Speaker 1: I am so happy, so thrilled, and so honored to
Speaker 1: have someone who is such a vocal advocate for mental
Speaker 1: health awareness, autism education, wonderful singer, artist, musician, and yes,
Speaker 1: he also happened to be in the NFL. Please welcome
Speaker 1: Joe bark Steal. Thank you. Of course, y'all, we were
Speaker 1: talking about something about his friends. So Nick, Nigel, and Chris.
Speaker 1: I just want to give y'all a shout out. I
Speaker 1: actually have an X by the name of Chris. So, Chris,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you might not be in the running,
Speaker 1: but I wanted to shout y'all out at the top
Speaker 1: of this episode. And maybe we'll have to bring the
Speaker 1: three of y'all back with your friend, Joe. Let's see
Speaker 1: three star dudes from Detroit. Yeah you do that. They
Speaker 1: wuldn't say anything. They just all me, Oh no, you know,
Speaker 1: you gouts to talk and he got to talk to me. Okay.
Speaker 1: I like information. I like to I like to communicate,
Speaker 1: and Joe, you have been communicating in your own way.
Speaker 1: You've had an amazing journey, something that people would describe
Speaker 1: like out of a movie. I don't know if you've
Speaker 1: considered getting a screenwriter for your life. Feel it's just starting.
Speaker 1: So yeah you think so? I know. So I had
Speaker 1: a spreenwriter to do his life after he became a
Speaker 1: hot producer, or like if the Rock had a screenwriter
Speaker 1: do a movie about how he became the top wrestler.
Speaker 1: The story after the story is the real story. I know.
Speaker 1: That makes no no, no, no, no, no, that's actually
Speaker 1: a bar. Yeah, Drake the same thing, making it from
Speaker 1: where he did to being undergrass and you know, National
Speaker 1: Global show. People would have thought I was named but no, Yeah,
Speaker 1: let me start with your music first. It was a
Speaker 1: coach that told you to start playing the guitar. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he gave me ther idea for it. I had a
Speaker 1: significant death in my life. And at the end of
Speaker 1: the two thousand and fourteen season, he knew I was
Speaker 1: musical that this happened during the season. He said, you
Speaker 1: need something to this offsea. Besides, you know, playing video games,
Speaker 1: something that's gonna engage your mind so you're not always
Speaker 1: just thinking about this. That's gonna help you process it.
Speaker 1: And I used to play music back in middle school.
Speaker 1: And you know, grew up in a black church, so
Speaker 1: you know, yes, yes, swol'clock in the morning. I got
Speaker 1: screwed tomorrow. But I can stay up for Jesus, but
Speaker 1: I can't stay up to watch my shows. That's fine. Sorry.
Speaker 1: I was talking to my invisible parents. M It's okay,
Speaker 1: darl we all got somebody invisible we talked to. They say,
Speaker 1: just don't answer them. Well, I think I'm way beyond that.
Speaker 1: But you open the door, Joe, who you were here with? Oh?
Speaker 1: You crazy? But yeah, I needed something to do, you know,
Speaker 1: to engage in my mind. I played saxophone before I
Speaker 1: played violent. Before both of those instruments, I felt like,
Speaker 1: you know, every instrument there's car and upkeep, but the saxophone,
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to clean my spit out of an
Speaker 1: instrument every day. And then you got the reads in
Speaker 1: your mind. I played saxophone, so I know all about
Speaker 1: the the vibration of the lead and the mouthpiece. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. You get it. And I
Speaker 1: wasn't trying to do that again. So I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: what's something I could play wherever, whenever? And you know,
Speaker 1: immediately the thought came and Jeff Fisher was the coach
Speaker 1: and he's like, you know, my son is actually really
Speaker 1: in the guitar. You know, you play guitar. It's a
Speaker 1: great introduction the music theory, you know, do a bunch
Speaker 1: of things from there. Why don't you try to guitar?
Speaker 1: Like okay, so did it come for you naturally or less?
Speaker 1: But it would get to the point that teachers that
Speaker 1: I had would be like, I don't know what else.
Speaker 1: You want me to shout nothing else to show you? Really,
Speaker 1: so you got sweet on it. I mean, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you noticed I am autistic. Yes, I
Speaker 1: was definitely going to get there. As far as your
Speaker 1: senses and the brilliance, I want to make sure I'm
Speaker 1: saying it correctly. I have two godchildren who are autistic.
Speaker 1: And the brilliance and how one of the god daughters.
Speaker 1: We were praying and at the end you say a man,
Speaker 1: and she was like, well, why don't we ever say
Speaker 1: a woman? She's like two. I'm like what what did
Speaker 1: you like? The brilliant and the mind or slap for
Speaker 1: those kind of comments. So you say you were disciplined
Speaker 1: for some of those comments, but when you look back,
Speaker 1: that was genius. There were some brilliance there for sure.
Speaker 1: Or you think you were being mischievous. No, I was
Speaker 1: just saying what I thought. I mean, I wasn't diagnosed
Speaker 1: with autism to our thirty so to a parent it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: this little trying to talk slit, you know. I think
Speaker 1: that's why it comes across as But these are legitimate
Speaker 1: questions and you are thirty three. So the diagnosis was
Speaker 1: about three years ago. I had Morgan Harper Nichols. She's
Speaker 1: an amazing writer, poet and artists as well. She's about
Speaker 1: thirty two, about your age, and just last year found
Speaker 1: out that she was autistic. And so how was that
Speaker 1: for you? Finding out something in your adulthood that people
Speaker 1: feel you should catch in your childhood. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of questions. And I'm a big believer in like I
Speaker 1: found out when I was supposed to. If I had
Speaker 1: found out earlier, there are certain things like I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have ever played football. The reason I got into football
Speaker 1: was because of some artistic behavior. I was actually a
Speaker 1: STEM kid, science technology man, so I did a lot
Speaker 1: of engineering programs and that kind of thing. I wanted
Speaker 1: to work at General Motors or Ford and design the
Speaker 1: interiors of cars. That's what I wanted to do. That
Speaker 1: was the dream. And I was at this residential engineering
Speaker 1: camp in high school. It was over the summer. This
Speaker 1: kid asked the question. He was trying to be funny.
Speaker 1: One I didn't know he was trying to be funny,
Speaker 1: because sometimes you don't get sarcasm too. There was just
Speaker 1: a starting the back of my head, like you know,
Speaker 1: people that asked stupid questions should get slapped, and I
Speaker 1: slapped him and we both got kicked out because he
Speaker 1: started flipping computers over and stuff. But that was up
Speaker 1: until then. Like I didn't know anything about sports, I
Speaker 1: mean nothing, Like I didn't watch sports. I don't watch sports.
Speaker 1: I didn't watch sports. When I was playing sports. I
Speaker 1: just needed something to do over the summer, just out
Speaker 1: of trouble. So uh, I thought I would try to
Speaker 1: get a shape and play football. So sports just became
Speaker 1: an outlet for you for behavioral responses. But when you
Speaker 1: talk about you were in science and technology and mad
Speaker 1: for someone of the outside looking in, they would just say, bro,
Speaker 1: you were just smart. You were just brilliant. What were
Speaker 1: the signs and symptoms that led up to possibly saying
Speaker 1: let me go get checked out to see if I'm autistic?
Speaker 1: Because somebody listening has that question. There was one statement
Speaker 1: for for me. I was talking to my therapist and
Speaker 1: I told her that I just I get so nervous
Speaker 1: all the time when I'm around people because I do
Speaker 1: my best to act like a human. But I scared
Speaker 1: to death that one day someone's gonna realize, like, no,
Speaker 1: like you're different. You know that kind of thing, not
Speaker 1: granted she had been observing me for a few years
Speaker 1: at this point, but that's what she told me. That
Speaker 1: it would be wise too to me with a specialist
Speaker 1: because I met with the specialists, the specialists telling me like,
Speaker 1: so this is during COVID, so specialists like you know,
Speaker 1: just so you know, usually this is a lengthy process.
Speaker 1: It takes about, you know, three or four meetings to
Speaker 1: get this together. So I'm gonna send you some papers.
Speaker 1: Feel these tests. I sent them back to me. We
Speaker 1: were halfway through our first meeting. We're not gonna have
Speaker 1: to have any more meetings. We're not gonna need to
Speaker 1: me to get you are on the spectrum really, m
Speaker 1: hmmm a lot about me, okay, And do you feel
Speaker 1: that it brought you closure, like okay, I can really
Speaker 1: move on now that I know, or do you feel
Speaker 1: like the label made things worse or be more comfortable?
Speaker 1: Who are like decisions? I've made things that I've done
Speaker 1: as even in the future, Like you know, my brain
Speaker 1: is hard wired differently than the average persons. So well,
Speaker 1: when I sit and talk to you, the laughter that
Speaker 1: we had before we officially started recording, and even when
Speaker 1: I walked in and you and the producers y'all were
Speaker 1: just laughing and going back and forth. And I'm sure
Speaker 1: a lot of people will tell you or ignorantly have said, bro,
Speaker 1: but you don't seem like someone on the spectrum. You
Speaker 1: might need to educate people, like there's various levels to this.
Speaker 1: It's definitely various levels to this. And I'm gonna say this,
Speaker 1: like when you talk about humor, like, I know, I'm funny,
Speaker 1: very when you're artistic, you don't really understand your feelings
Speaker 1: and emotions. I mean, you figure out different ways to
Speaker 1: do this. Me, I tried to deny and I tried
Speaker 1: to hide them from other people, and comedy was always
Speaker 1: a way for me to have my emotions because if
Speaker 1: people were laughing, they wouldn't know how pissed I was,
Speaker 1: or how sad I am, melancholy I feel, or whatever,
Speaker 1: even how happy I am. And it became this repetitious
Speaker 1: drill that I guess I've been doing since five six.
Speaker 1: So I think that's why, because first of all, I mean,
Speaker 1: let's be honest, there's a lot of people out there
Speaker 1: that ain't funny. And I'm not talking about you choosing violence.
Speaker 1: This is what my wife tells me. Okay, So this
Speaker 1: is who I'm citing and not just still my wife
Speaker 1: under the bus. But she said I asked her because
Speaker 1: this is what happened. I was at church the other
Speaker 1: day and I was talking to this young lady. She
Speaker 1: volunteers in the daycare center. So they watched you know,
Speaker 1: my kids, and you know, I'm talking to it, and
Speaker 1: it's kind of like this, like but you know, once again,
Speaker 1: it's a shield from my emotions. So she's laughing. Immediately,
Speaker 1: this woman comes up to me after, so you know
Speaker 1: what talking about, ma'am. I'm thirty three and married with
Speaker 1: two children. Oh so I asked my wife. I'm like,
Speaker 1: why does everybody think that you're flirting when you're making
Speaker 1: a woman laugh? And she's like, because everybody ain't funny. Okay,
Speaker 1: a lot of people are not funny, and a lot
Speaker 1: of women will just sit there and laugh and it
Speaker 1: may be a fake laugh, but when you laugh from
Speaker 1: a woman. But that's how I found out a lot
Speaker 1: of people ain't funny. Oh so, Mrs Barksdale, you gave
Speaker 1: him some free games. Oh no, you can't learn to
Speaker 1: be funny, like it's funny. You cannot learn to be funny.
Speaker 1: But what I liked what she said. When the laugh
Speaker 1: comes from the belly, okay, but when it's cerebral like
Speaker 1: that's but when it's blood and pushed and it started
Speaker 1: getting degraded, Shut up, your stupid boy. You were talked to, Yes,
Speaker 1: so you mentioned you grew up in Detroit, Michigan. Y'all.
Speaker 1: He went to Louisiana State University. He was on a
Speaker 1: full right scholarship. He played for three NFL teams, the
Speaker 1: Arizona Cardinals, Los Angeles Chargers, St. Louis Rams. You are
Speaker 1: living a dream because there's a very small percentage of
Speaker 1: people who make it past high school and college sports
Speaker 1: and eventually go to the NFL. Then you shared that
Speaker 1: you struggle with depression and anxiety and a potential attempt
Speaker 1: at suicide. Mm hmm, couple of them. My heart goes out.
Speaker 1: And I hate that anybody has had to deal with
Speaker 1: childhood sexual abuse, bullying, emotional, physical abuse of any kind
Speaker 1: that you had as a child growing up. Which is
Speaker 1: funny that I got kicked out of the engineering camp
Speaker 1: for bullying. Really, but when you talked about your anger,
Speaker 1: you talked about your anger in certain responses. I'm just
Speaker 1: wondering if that was a result I'm not knowing how
Speaker 1: to express what you were feeling due to abuse the
Speaker 1: reality of the situations. I did. I didn't. I never
Speaker 1: formed that bond with like my parents and my grandma
Speaker 1: used to brag to my wife about this all the time.
Speaker 1: Back then she was my girlfriend. You know, we as
Speaker 1: young as two years old. We take him with us,
Speaker 1: you know, on trips to church conventions, and we'd be
Speaker 1: gone for weeks sometimes months, and he would never ask
Speaker 1: for his mama, And I'm like, that's not something to
Speaker 1: brag about. That's a problem. You know, like these kids,
Speaker 1: they wake up from a nap, Brianna go up briannest
Speaker 1: my wife, Brianna go upstairs. He where's dad? Like, you know,
Speaker 1: from a nap, and for someone to never asked for
Speaker 1: their mama, Like, that's a problem. So because I never,
Speaker 1: you know, had that bond, I never trusted a and
Speaker 1: I never trusted him enough to tell them. So it
Speaker 1: was more of a trust thing than this is what
Speaker 1: happened thing. Yeah, yeah, Wow. It's kind of like throughout
Speaker 1: the bad things, good things have come. You pursued a
Speaker 1: sports career, you're doing music. But it was Kobe Bryant
Speaker 1: who became a one on one personal mentor for you
Speaker 1: that inspired you to really kind of pursue music full time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that had to be amazing. It's fantastic. I mean, me
Speaker 1: and Kobe was on a few times that I feel
Speaker 1: like I met somebody that saw it the way that
Speaker 1: I did. You know, like you get it. I just
Speaker 1: never hit it off on anybody that quickly before in
Speaker 1: my life. I read something where I think you might
Speaker 1: have asked, Kobe Walk, I'm paraphrasing, how do you know
Speaker 1: that it's something that you really want to do? And
Speaker 1: I think Kobe responded and said, when it's something that
Speaker 1: you pursue more than what your career is. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: asked when you knew you wanted to retired? He said,
Speaker 1: when I started thinking about what I had going on
Speaker 1: off the court more than what I had going on
Speaker 1: the court, then I'm doing a disservice to myself in
Speaker 1: the game. Yeah. I've had a chance to listen to
Speaker 1: your music. I'm glad you have chosen music. Twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: you released an EP title Electric Soul. Electric was recorded
Speaker 1: while I was still playing. It was recorded during one
Speaker 1: of them was during my off day in summer camp,
Speaker 1: and then the other one was during the bye week,
Speaker 1: so I see exactly. You were focused more so on
Speaker 1: stuff off the field than you were on the field. Well,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say when I was giving that timeline
Speaker 1: about twenty, do you feel like the pandemic gave people
Speaker 1: more of a chance to focus on you musically, like
Speaker 1: look at you as the artist? Yes? If anything in
Speaker 1: nineteen made like the x NFL thing like that much
Speaker 1: more prominent because it's not like I was playing any shows.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and that's like that's a goal, that's a
Speaker 1: life goal, like the same way Dwayne Johnson is no
Speaker 1: longer the rock, Like I wanna be just Joe Bark
Speaker 1: still not excel player. Okay, And if I might add,
Speaker 1: so you know me, I come from the group Destiny's Child, right,
Speaker 1: And do I want to be just Michelle Williams. Yes,
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of people who tack on
Speaker 1: former Destiny's Child member Destiny's Child member from Destiny's Child,
Speaker 1: And they're parts of me that are honored to have
Speaker 1: that association because that's good pedigree to come from. But
Speaker 1: I kind of get what you're saying when people just
Speaker 1: continue to bark on the NFL, and because I mean,
Speaker 1: you gotta look at it from my point of view,
Speaker 1: like being a big black dude America. Every person white, black,
Speaker 1: other they see you, they assume you play sports. I
Speaker 1: mean you're walking into the Louis Vatime story. Also, what
Speaker 1: position on the field do you play? Can you afford
Speaker 1: to be here? Are you a rapp And you know,
Speaker 1: like it starts to hurt your feelings, you know, and
Speaker 1: then you think about like the Civil Rights movement and
Speaker 1: like what those people are trying to get done. We're
Speaker 1: more than just entertainers. And and then you go into football,
Speaker 1: like you know, and then you and then after football
Speaker 1: you leave football to the show business, Like what kind
Speaker 1: of seller? But you know what I'm saying, like those
Speaker 1: kind of thoughts. But the x NFL thing, for sure,
Speaker 1: like I had to bury a lot of dreams when
Speaker 1: I left the NFL. It wasn't just like Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm done, you know NFL because I saw something greater.
Speaker 1: It was during the Kansas City Chiefs game and um,
Speaker 1: we were losing, and uh, you know, there's a hundred
Speaker 1: thousand something person stadium and I'm looking around and I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: it takes to fifty three man rosters, plus whoever's working
Speaker 1: in the front office, whoever's doing promotion, and all that
Speaker 1: other kind of stuff to sell us arena out for
Speaker 1: eight times during the regular season, eight times a year.
Speaker 1: And then I look up and I see Taylor Swift
Speaker 1: and kind I said, at the same arena this day,
Speaker 1: this day, and this day, and I'm like, that's significant,
Speaker 1: like not this, you know, like that. I remember thinking that,
Speaker 1: like that is significant. Do you see yourself opening up
Speaker 1: for her one day and then taking the main stage
Speaker 1: and being the headlining act one day? Yeah? Good. I
Speaker 1: mean I feel like, as far as my music is
Speaker 1: concerned and so forth, I'm creating, I'm doing stuff that
Speaker 1: hasn't been done, and so I know it's gonna take
Speaker 1: a little bit longer for it to catch on. But
Speaker 1: when it catches on, artists like Kanye West, Drake Kid,
Speaker 1: cut a young Thug have shown us when it catches on,
Speaker 1: it catches on. That's true. Who was one or two
Speaker 1: of your musical I don't know inspiration because I don't
Speaker 1: know if people inspire you other than Kobe Bryant. I'm
Speaker 1: getting sense a lot actually dropped the tribute album to
Speaker 1: him last year. It's called on mart. I didn't want
Speaker 1: to name it Kanye West and get suit. But this
Speaker 1: was before the Genius Documents, before I even knew that
Speaker 1: documentary was coming out. But yeah, he's been a huge
Speaker 1: influence on my sound. I described my sound as like
Speaker 1: if Marvin gay and Jimmy Hendricks, you know, and Slides
Speaker 1: started writing music together and Kanye West produced it. Like
Speaker 1: that's I would call my music hate heat, Marvin Gaye,
Speaker 1: sly in the family Stone, Kanye West. Yeah, that is heat.
Speaker 1: And I've got a listener from New York last name Scott.
Speaker 1: I won't say his first name, but I love that
Speaker 1: he always keeps me up more than he knows on
Speaker 1: music and R and B music or anything considered eclectic
Speaker 1: or something music that's probably not considered popular. But like
Speaker 1: you said, once it hits, it hits because everybody else
Speaker 1: is doing whatever sounds you're chasing that sounds like someone else,
Speaker 1: They already sound like themselves, like people that try to
Speaker 1: be the next Jimmy Hendricks. Jimmy Hendricks already exists. We
Speaker 1: don't need another one. Well, we are excited. We got
Speaker 1: Joe bark Stell and how are using your music and
Speaker 1: even bringing awareness to mental health. Do you know how
Speaker 1: many people you've impacted, probably primarily black men. Well you
Speaker 1: have to know that. I'm sure you are impacting people
Speaker 1: and impacting people who come from that world of sports.
Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken. There are two men who are
Speaker 1: even kind of forsaken a possible career in sports because
Speaker 1: they were like, I can't do this, it's too much.
Speaker 1: And I think that takes amazing courage to really go
Speaker 1: for your passion. And you're so gifted in many things.
Speaker 1: You're gifted in sports, music, tech. Come on, are you
Speaker 1: or your own engineer as well? Having that out? This album?
Speaker 1: This is yours truly album. We recorded it in the studio,
Speaker 1: but you have if it's done in the house like
Speaker 1: the Amari album. I did it all myself in here.
Speaker 1: Oh am g oh my gosh. Well, I'm excited to
Speaker 1: see your name on flyers like Coachella. Have you done
Speaker 1: south By Southwest yet? I actually played in my first
Speaker 1: south By the event this year, so yeah, yeah, we
Speaker 1: just made a baby. We who we just made? Come on,
Speaker 1: I'm truly excited. You're not signed to a major are you?
Speaker 1: And what are your thoughts on that? I'm on label?
Speaker 1: I call it move being music because I can do
Speaker 1: everything myself. I've started to work with two other rappers.
Speaker 1: I'm looking for a singer, but I can produce the
Speaker 1: music myself, so I'm not using everything I make. So
Speaker 1: I helped them out and it helps me, you know,
Speaker 1: expand my arrange as a producer and all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff too. But yeah, the labels moon being music
Speaker 1: and it ain't going nowhere. Come on, congratulations. Ownership is everything.
Speaker 1: You own your masters, you own your publishing, you own
Speaker 1: it all. But I'm sure you know, when that heat
Speaker 1: really gets on your name, you're gonna have to get
Speaker 1: some help. You're in line and it looks and I
Speaker 1: was gladly accepted. But until then, look, I have to
Speaker 1: support what's supporting me. So right now like woe music
Speaker 1: supporting me. And eventually, you're right, Movie Music will probably
Speaker 1: be a division or some other big label and at
Speaker 1: that time it will be shout out to Movie Music
Speaker 1: and that label exactly. But you didn't wait for the majors.
Speaker 1: You started it yourself because I want to own song.
Speaker 1: Like even when I first started making music, I could
Speaker 1: tell that people were trying to like influence, you know,
Speaker 1: like when I first started doing music, I wanted I
Speaker 1: wanted to be the next Jimmy Hendricks, like I want
Speaker 1: to be the next John Mayor. I wanted to be
Speaker 1: Black John Mayor. I didn't want to produce anything. I
Speaker 1: just wanted to play guitar and saying. And over time
Speaker 1: I realized, no, I want to do more and I
Speaker 1: can't do more. Absolutely, And I know for a fact,
Speaker 1: if I signed with the label, my ass would have
Speaker 1: been black John Mayor. You know what I'm saying, Like
Speaker 1: you wouldn't see me with no button acoustick. I mean,
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong. The songs would have been nice
Speaker 1: and whole, little soul for voice. But I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know, like there's already a John Mayor. I got guess.
Speaker 1: So I think that's the difference. I wanted to find
Speaker 1: my own sound, and there's no other way to find
Speaker 1: your own sound and by yourself. Right, How do your
Speaker 1: children do they spark or inspire your music at all?
Speaker 1: And any he does inspire everything I do because they
Speaker 1: listen emotional responses for me, and everything that I do
Speaker 1: is me processing my emotions, whether it's a a song,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever. You know, kids, they've shown me you
Speaker 1: get this view of guy. I can't speak for everybody.
Speaker 1: The view guy I grew up with. It's different than
Speaker 1: the view of God I have now, and that's thanks
Speaker 1: to my actual kids. That's beautiful because I was gonna
Speaker 1: ask you, when you were younger, you had problems expressing
Speaker 1: your emotions probably and what people will consider in an
Speaker 1: appropriate way. But now you have children who make you laugh,
Speaker 1: who probably irritate. That's a harsh word. The real word. Well,
Speaker 1: they can maybe frustrate. I'm gonna say frustrating, But why
Speaker 1: are you frustrated because you're irritated. You're not gonna therapize
Speaker 1: me today. Kids can be irritating you. You can quote me,
Speaker 1: Michelle and say that I said it, and look, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure it's a bunch of with thank you. Yes,
Speaker 1: they can y'all hear this about you. Okay, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: you're right, you said you said it. I didn't want
Speaker 1: no one to come after me, didn't say, Michelle, you
Speaker 1: should probably frustrate. It's probably the more appropriate word than irritate.
Speaker 1: And that's another reason I want independent, because you didn't
Speaker 1: want nobody to tell you how you should, especially after
Speaker 1: coming from the NFL. Where everything you know, all your
Speaker 1: responses that I mean, it's to the point, Hey, they're
Speaker 1: gonna ask you about the turkey drive telling that it
Speaker 1: was delicious, Like you know what I mean. If they
Speaker 1: start talking about the key line, Poe, tell them you
Speaker 1: ain't got no more answers. You know, we have meetings
Speaker 1: and culture. We don't talk about this talking about it.
Speaker 1: You know, like you couldn't you couldn't be yourself. But
Speaker 1: I get it, Like that's the job and that's the
Speaker 1: organization you're part of, so you under their rules. I understand,
Speaker 1: but I don't want that to be me. Again. There's
Speaker 1: a sense of freedom then that you have. Do you
Speaker 1: feel like you have some folks that are still in
Speaker 1: the league who are probably envious of this freedom you have.
Speaker 1: I don't know. So another thing about autism is you
Speaker 1: don't really think about like other people. Like in your mind,
Speaker 1: everybody else is just a nonplayable character and you're like
Speaker 1: the main character of a video. Again, so I don't
Speaker 1: really spend time thinking about what other people think. Folks
Speaker 1: who don't have the diagnosis of artism need it, which
Speaker 1: is true, you do. Everybody needs the where you don't
Speaker 1: worry about what other people think, stay in your world
Speaker 1: create once you come to the realization that like nobody's
Speaker 1: perfect or you know how people are say like you
Speaker 1: need Jesus. Well, if I need Jesus for the reasons,
Speaker 1: then you say I do, and you do too, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like absolutely, we all need Jesus
Speaker 1: for various reasons. So if we all need Jesus, we're
Speaker 1: all on the same level. That's good. I ain't worried
Speaker 1: about nobody that's on my level. Come on, speaking like
Speaker 1: a true artist who's sure of himself, because some people
Speaker 1: might call it rebellion, but it's just someone who's sure
Speaker 1: and doesn't worry about what people think about them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would call it like revelation or reevaluation, not necessarily rebellion,
Speaker 1: just doing things. I mean the same thing Apple talks about,
Speaker 1: just thinking differently and not in the box outside the box,
Speaker 1: because the box already exists even if you look at
Speaker 1: like cell phones, cell phones are almost perfect. Like the
Speaker 1: battery life on the newest cellphones ridiculous. The cameras are ridiculous,
Speaker 1: The video cameras are ridiculous. You know, I'm not saying
Speaker 1: that they're gonna replace point and shoe phones. But for
Speaker 1: the average consumer, like that is their camera and video
Speaker 1: camera and it's capturing these family events and all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuck. And these companies have realized, Okay, we're
Speaker 1: at the edge of that. Yeah, we can keep making
Speaker 1: phones for a while, but soon people are gonna stop
Speaker 1: buying them unless they do something else. So what do
Speaker 1: they do now? They fault. I was in l A
Speaker 1: the other day and I had to stop and CVS
Speaker 1: for something, and I was so shocked to see a
Speaker 1: young woman standing in the camera processing department getting film developed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like getting photos developed. But you wonder where
Speaker 1: is all our pictures gonna go? What you mean when
Speaker 1: you die? I mean, I guess I mean, are your
Speaker 1: kids gonna be able to get your pass colde to
Speaker 1: your phone? And you know what I'm saying. Versus when
Speaker 1: my grandmother died, when my father passed away about a
Speaker 1: year ago, we were able to get physical pictures to
Speaker 1: look at, versus trying to break into a phone. Come on,
Speaker 1: I think we should go back to the point and
Speaker 1: shoot Joe. I think we just need to leave I
Speaker 1: love ones, our passwords. I'm sorry, I That's where I'd
Speaker 1: smack him. If we was in personally, because then I'd
Speaker 1: say he was being a smart But but that's what
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. Leave the past code. You're right, but
Speaker 1: I wouldn't try to be smart like that was legitimately
Speaker 1: how I felt, you know, y'all, I don't know if
Speaker 1: you can d m us on our I G S
Speaker 1: to let us know. Do you feel that that was
Speaker 1: a smart A S comment or not? No, you're right,
Speaker 1: I don't think it was. It was just something I
Speaker 1: didn't think about. Like, you're right, leave the past code
Speaker 1: in a nightstand or something, and your will in your wilet.
Speaker 1: That's too many places. You're just talking about the past
Speaker 1: code to your recovery email, because everything's gonna go to
Speaker 1: your recovery email anyway. Okay, that's true. That is so true,
Speaker 1: because the thing is we're gonna die. I'm sorry. I
Speaker 1: know that's very morbid, but like no one gets out
Speaker 1: of life alive, and it's the one thing we never
Speaker 1: want to talk about. Or what do you think it's
Speaker 1: going to happen when Jesus is supposed to come back?
Speaker 1: Do you want to be for that or would you
Speaker 1: rather be already dead? I get to have a don't
Speaker 1: care if I get to have I don't care. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's the way because people say that, like, you know,
Speaker 1: oh man, everybody is so afraid of death without realizing
Speaker 1: that they live in an imperfect world and we get
Speaker 1: to go to a place that is perfect world. I mean,
Speaker 1: look at how beautiful the imperfect world is, thinking about
Speaker 1: the world like without pain. Wait a minute, wait wait
Speaker 1: wait wait wait wait wait, Look how beautiful an imperfect
Speaker 1: world is. Perspective, y'all. You choose to see the beauty
Speaker 1: in imperfection. Yeah, you're right. It is a choice. It
Speaker 1: is a very hard choice, but it's a choice. It
Speaker 1: is a choice to see beauty in an anxiety field
Speaker 1: environment world, but to see beauty in an imperfect world.
Speaker 1: But to imagine what's gonna be when we get to
Speaker 1: the perfect world or is a perfect world of mindset? Theologically,
Speaker 1: I believe that a perfect whether something that leaves beyond
Speaker 1: this one. Because if this is as good as it's
Speaker 1: gonna get, hell me, I mean what you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like, if this is as good as it's
Speaker 1: gonna get, you feel like what more do are you
Speaker 1: living for? What am I living for? That's kind of
Speaker 1: when you think about why people kill themselves because they
Speaker 1: feel that their best days are behind them. People don't
Speaker 1: know how hopeless of a feeling that is. I've attempted
Speaker 1: my life, so I know what you're talking about. I
Speaker 1: played let's make a deal with God. I was hopeless.
Speaker 1: I was playing let's make a deal with God, saying God,
Speaker 1: I've lived a great life. What is behind door number three?
Speaker 1: So I know exactly what you're talking about. What is
Speaker 1: there more to live for? I'm good. I don't want
Speaker 1: no more pain. I don't care if you tell me that, no,
Speaker 1: hold on, there's something better. And the truth of the
Speaker 1: matter is there is if you hold on, keep holding on.
Speaker 1: I don't believe that it was a time that healed
Speaker 1: my pain. It was what I did in the time.
Speaker 1: That's what I did with time. Like even now, you
Speaker 1: know there's thoughts and feelings and you know all these things.
Speaker 1: Can the pain be resolved? No? Some of its biological
Speaker 1: is some kind of chemical imbalance. And when you say pain,
Speaker 1: when you say I'm always in pain to someone listening
Speaker 1: that could say, I think I know what he means.
Speaker 1: Do you mind being specific? Oh? Yeah? Like so I
Speaker 1: don't know if you noticed, like I'm super open about everything. Yes, Uh,
Speaker 1: there's a voice in the back of my hair right now,
Speaker 1: like Michelle Williams is wasting her time interviewing you. You
Speaker 1: quit football to become a musician that no one wants
Speaker 1: to listen to. You think there are people really care
Speaker 1: about your music, You think that you becomes something other
Speaker 1: than an ex NFL player. You're lying yourself, and that's
Speaker 1: just one of them. They're all lies. No, I know
Speaker 1: that lies. But I mean sometimes I have depressive delusions
Speaker 1: and it's it's a daily thing, and it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a daily thing. And that's why I talk about it
Speaker 1: so openly because it ain't going nowhere. And I would
Speaker 1: be doing a disservice to the people who don't get
Speaker 1: listened to in everyday life if I didn't say anything.
Speaker 1: You know, there's people are a certain person the spectrum.
Speaker 1: They can't like open their mouths and speak. I do
Speaker 1: it for those people. I don't quit for those people
Speaker 1: because I tell you, I want to quit every day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: every day. Like I can't see the future. All I
Speaker 1: can see is like what is in front of me today?
Speaker 1: You can speak your future though, Yeah, I can't see
Speaker 1: the future at all, but we can speak and write it.
Speaker 1: Speak what you want to see, right what you want
Speaker 1: to see? Yeah, I do that. One of your tweets
Speaker 1: was I think today maybe the day that I come
Speaker 1: to terms with reality. That was a very sad tweet,
Speaker 1: I know, and acknowledging keeping it real with where you are.
Speaker 1: And I want you to know I could talk to
Speaker 1: you for four hours, so that first thing, I know,
Speaker 1: you know it was a lie. But I want to
Speaker 1: tell you that I'm glad to be talking to you,
Speaker 1: and you are so intriguing that it's makes me want
Speaker 1: to dig, dig even more to just get into that
Speaker 1: brilliance of yours, you know, the mind of you. Are
Speaker 1: you okay today? Are you okay right now? But no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I want to tell you this. When you we ask
Speaker 1: how is somebody doing? Yo? How are you doing? Be
Speaker 1: ready for when somebody actually says I'm not doing okay?
Speaker 1: Do we really mean what we say when we ask
Speaker 1: somebody how we're doing? Do we really care about how
Speaker 1: a person is doing? Joe, You've sent some key things
Speaker 1: to me that are like, I want to know how
Speaker 1: you're doing. I actually I'm gonna say it publicly I
Speaker 1: want to keep in touch with you, you and your
Speaker 1: wife and family. Like I think I'm a total stranger.
Speaker 1: But would you have said that to somebody at the
Speaker 1: girlcery store If they say, Joe, I'm a fan of yours,
Speaker 1: how are you doing today? Would you be like, I'm
Speaker 1: not okay? Yeah, you would tell them that, Yeah, because
Speaker 1: I aw somebody gonna normalize it. Things that people never
Speaker 1: hear about can't be normalized. I'll tell you why I'm
Speaker 1: not okay. If that's okay, absolutely please okay. So clearly
Speaker 1: I think I'm a failure when it comes to like
Speaker 1: my music, Like I feel like I left football to
Speaker 1: chase a dream and I could have still been playing
Speaker 1: football with the small number of engagements that I have
Speaker 1: on my calendar. You know, like you start to beat
Speaker 1: yourself up about that, Like what are you doing? You
Speaker 1: wake up and sit at home every day and make
Speaker 1: music in the room that no one else listens to.
Speaker 1: You're stupid. You're going through that on top of you know,
Speaker 1: the comedy thing, like I don't. I've never been a
Speaker 1: comedian before, and the two comedians that I do know
Speaker 1: that are like I would consider them successful ones. Gas
Speaker 1: to or our mindset of the others Royal Junr. They're
Speaker 1: so far away from where I am right now. It
Speaker 1: ain't even funny. And it's like, what are you doing now?
Speaker 1: You're trying to go in the comedy to to make
Speaker 1: yourself really, you know, forget about your failures and musicians,
Speaker 1: but you fight through those things. I do believe in God.
Speaker 1: I have been looking for a church to go to
Speaker 1: and I found a great church. And it's still a
Speaker 1: great church. Like I said, I'm already like beating myself
Speaker 1: up and not having much on account of their musically.
Speaker 1: And that's not to say nothing is happening. Let me pause,
Speaker 1: depressive delusions, depression in general, mental illness. This is through
Speaker 1: the lens of a mental illness. I decided I would
Speaker 1: try out for the church band. You know, you try
Speaker 1: to get involved with church, help with guy's work. From
Speaker 1: the moment I heard the music that they were using
Speaker 1: to try out, I'm like, I don't play this music.
Speaker 1: Listen to this music. I don't know this music. But
Speaker 1: I learned the songs and I played them my way
Speaker 1: that were not the way that they were looking for.
Speaker 1: I didn't make the church band. The last band I
Speaker 1: tried off for I didn't make it either. I was twelve.
Speaker 1: I was trying for a jazz band with my saxophone.
Speaker 1: It was a traveling jazz band. This was in Detroit,
Speaker 1: and I was like one of the last rounds. But
Speaker 1: I didn't make it, and so I went back to
Speaker 1: being twelve, feeling the same feelings of like rejection, rejection,
Speaker 1: and even like hopelessness. Like, bro, if you can't play
Speaker 1: in the church band when you like you left you
Speaker 1: left football to play your music, that ain't happening. So
Speaker 1: you're trying to play somebody else's music. You can't even
Speaker 1: play somebody else's music. What an idiot? You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like, that's what I hear. It takes a
Speaker 1: minimum of five years musically from the point with which
Speaker 1: you started independently organically without the help of a label.
Speaker 1: It takes a minimum of five years. So within five
Speaker 1: years you're actually on track. No. No, I hear people
Speaker 1: say that. They say, like even with comedy, that I'm
Speaker 1: like moving really fast, but I don't see it. I
Speaker 1: know you don't see it or you don't feel it.
Speaker 1: But you're already three years in. You started music in
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, right when you retire from the NFL. Correct
Speaker 1: as far as professionally, yeah, where everything I released was
Speaker 1: gonna stay up. Yeah, you almost three years in. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna quit. I know you're not because I'm gonna
Speaker 1: find you an awesome We're gonna go to a good
Speaker 1: barbecue spot and I'm gonna let you have it. But
Speaker 1: I can tell it like sometimes when I'm being honest,
Speaker 1: the reaction is to like try to make it better
Speaker 1: instead of us just listening. Yeah, but we have to
Speaker 1: encourage you. We gotta encourage you and be like, bro,
Speaker 1: I hear you up. No, it's like I appreciate the
Speaker 1: encouragement and everything. I'm just saying that I don't like
Speaker 1: me acknowledging that part of me feels that way. It
Speaker 1: doesn't mean like I'm about to log off and go
Speaker 1: jump off the roof. You know. I think that's a
Speaker 1: people's fear. It's a majority of fear, and so that's
Speaker 1: what happens. People want to automatically try to fix the problem. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you don't desire that. Most people that kill themselves,
Speaker 1: it wasn't because like someone didn't say the wrong thing.
Speaker 1: They were alone, it was nobody. They didn't have nobody
Speaker 1: to talk to. There wasn't you know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 1: it wasn't because someone said the wrong thing in the conversation.
Speaker 1: It wasn't because someone didn't cheer them up. But yeah,
Speaker 1: like I just I try to be honest with how
Speaker 1: I feel for that reason, same thing. How was it
Speaker 1: gonna get normalized? I know that Kanye felt this way before.
Speaker 1: I know that Drakes felt this way. I know Dwayne
Speaker 1: Johnson's felt this way. I know. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: a Bible person. I know Paul has probably felt this way.
Speaker 1: How are you going from murdering and preach Christians too? Okay,
Speaker 1: now I'm a preacher. I'm gonna preach to y'all. Can
Speaker 1: you imagine them first couple of sermons? All right, y'all,
Speaker 1: And we're bringing in Paul, and I'm looking a lot
Speaker 1: like salt. I was snatching people up last week. You're
Speaker 1: talking about you know what I'm saying. Like, so I
Speaker 1: acknowledge how I feel while also acknowledging that I'm not
Speaker 1: like the only person to ever feel that way. You know,
Speaker 1: Jesus felt that way did to the point of sweating
Speaker 1: blood in the garden. Yeah, you got profits in the
Speaker 1: in the Old Testament, pray and forgot to kill him.
Speaker 1: Sadness and pain is real, But I do think that
Speaker 1: suffering is the only way to become a person of greatness.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you can look at anybody that's
Speaker 1: truly great, that hasn't suffered, that has not suffered, and
Speaker 1: that also has not sacrificed. You almost sacrifice even your
Speaker 1: true feelings for the glory of what it is that
Speaker 1: you want to do, or the effectiveness or to fulfillment.
Speaker 1: Like I'm I want to be effective. I don't just
Speaker 1: want to be somebody that people listen to and then
Speaker 1: like something. There's millions of people just listening to me talk,
Speaker 1: but no one's actually like hearing me. I'm not actually
Speaker 1: affecting people. I don't want to be a placeholder. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to be effective, And I realized a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago. Actually with this album that's coming out
Speaker 1: this year, it's actually a various the most personal album. Yes,
Speaker 1: when is it coming out? Coming out this summer. It's
Speaker 1: called Yours Truly. But I want people to know how
Speaker 1: I feel, because I know I'm not the only one
Speaker 1: that feels how I feel. It may not be the
Speaker 1: same a way like, oh, you know, but like like
Speaker 1: I said, we've all we've all been in pain. And
Speaker 1: that's what I used to relate to people and me
Speaker 1: talking about things that have happened to me personally. Usually
Speaker 1: are would resonate the most. And it's easy for me
Speaker 1: to do because I'm autistic. So I said that to
Speaker 1: say like that, there's no filter. Clearly, clearly there's no filter, Joe. Listen,
Speaker 1: you know who has no filter? My grandmother. Like sometimes
Speaker 1: I wonder if she's autistic. I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: because she's fought in the stuff rights movement and she thinks.
Speaker 1: I have this joke that, like, you know, the people
Speaker 1: who bring up the civil rights movement, the boss are
Speaker 1: the ones that didn't do nothing. You'll be at the
Speaker 1: city there, like, listen, freedom better come before three o'clock.
Speaker 1: I gotta show to watch when I get home. H
Speaker 1: But so my grandma has no filter. Lord, my mother
Speaker 1: just turned seventy the other day, and it's kind of
Speaker 1: like they almost have paid and deserved. You hear how
Speaker 1: they feel. You go hear how they feel, and you're
Speaker 1: gonna adjust and that's all you can do. Wow, Joe,
Speaker 1: thank you for bringing us into so many facets of you.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to hear your new album.
Speaker 1: You said it's coming out in the summertime, summer, a
Speaker 1: very personal album. All of your music has been been
Speaker 1: speaking to where you are, and I think that's pretty
Speaker 1: incredible of your honesty and thank you. You've actually given
Speaker 1: me the permission to I'm gonna try it with strangers
Speaker 1: and see how they react. I've got about three or
Speaker 1: four people where if they were to call and text
Speaker 1: me and ask me how I'm doing, I could really say, man,
Speaker 1: I'm overwhelmed, I'm frustrated, versus just trying it with somebody
Speaker 1: at Dunkin Donuts. So well, there have been people who
Speaker 1: probably also feel like they don't want to be a
Speaker 1: burden on people. They don't want to be a Debbie
Speaker 1: downer on somebody else's day. So I'm just gonna say
Speaker 1: the two words, I'm okay. Y'all got to stop thinking
Speaker 1: for everybody else, Like, people ask you questions for a reason,
Speaker 1: and you know what, if you do tell them how
Speaker 1: they feel and they don't really care about how you feel,
Speaker 1: they ain't gonna ask you no more. But if they
Speaker 1: do ask you how you feel, You tell them how
Speaker 1: you feel, and then the relationship changes because wow, this
Speaker 1: person really, I mean, how is he gonna find out?
Speaker 1: Who cares about you? That's right, because I think we
Speaker 1: easy to do to a stranger. It's hard to do
Speaker 1: to someone who knows you. But yeah, like why not.
Speaker 1: Like I said, we're all the same. Absolutely, you'll find
Speaker 1: out that we're more alike than we are. I'm excited
Speaker 1: that we got to talk about just your journey period,
Speaker 1: and I want you to come back when the album
Speaker 1: is done. I love to come back. Your latest single
Speaker 1: I need Love? Oh you like it? Uh? Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1: That's the first time I wrote when I moved to Austin.
Speaker 1: Really yeah, I'm gonna be honest. I called myself like
Speaker 1: almost retiring from music all the way, but I love
Speaker 1: talking to other musicians and singers and writers. And we
Speaker 1: work together before you retire from music all the way,
Speaker 1: Yes we should. I can produce it. You wouldn't have
Speaker 1: to worry about going through the label or anything. And
Speaker 1: even if you're like, look, I ain't even trying to
Speaker 1: do all that, and just let me do a couple
Speaker 1: of the little them kids, m you know whatever, work
Speaker 1: on something together. Okay, I'm here for it, And thank
Speaker 1: you for your honesty, because I was gonna ask you, know,
Speaker 1: what do you do to relieve stress or whatever? But
Speaker 1: you're honest. You tell it how it is. You really
Speaker 1: tell people how you're feeling, even for people like you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I'm pretty sure that you know me being honest
Speaker 1: with you once again when I say I'm not doing okay,
Speaker 1: Like obviously I'm not sitting here like with a knife
Speaker 1: to my wrist, y'all. Like, honestly, like my feelings are
Speaker 1: a little hurt because I didn't make the band. That
Speaker 1: does not mean that I'm not still doing other things.
Speaker 1: Let me call that church. Tell me what's the name
Speaker 1: of the church. Remember what I told you at the beginning.
Speaker 1: I'm listening to the music. I don't even play this music.
Speaker 1: So you don't winning there and try to season it up.
Speaker 1: You try to put some Lari's on it. Huh, it's
Speaker 1: some hot sauce on it, and then you can take
Speaker 1: that ship back to the kitchen. Ladies and gentlemen. That
Speaker 1: ends this amazing discussion. Take it back the kitchen, sending
Speaker 1: it back. Let me get a Shirley Temple. Give me
Speaker 1: something simple, because this is this is a mess. But
Speaker 1: I'm sure it was not a mess. I'm sure it
Speaker 1: was just probably something that they weren't expecting. And I
Speaker 1: don't know. You might get the call back. You never know,
Speaker 1: they might have made a mistake. The reality situation is,
Speaker 1: I mean, part of success is embracing failure. It's a failure.
Speaker 1: I mean it happened for a reason. The last time
Speaker 1: it happened, I was twelve. I had it better than
Speaker 1: I did when I was twelve. That is progress. I'm
Speaker 1: moving on absolutely. Now. I do go to therapy. I
Speaker 1: don't want you to think that I'll just be meditating, yeah,
Speaker 1: saying a couple of prayers, and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I got to therapy. I'll be in church. I had
Speaker 1: theology class last night. So are you in schools for minutes? Street? No,
Speaker 1: I'm taking a theology class because I want to, like,
Speaker 1: I realized I know a lot about it and I
Speaker 1: want to kind of put it into a comedic form,
Speaker 1: to turn it into like a comedic set. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe half hour forty five minutes of explaining
Speaker 1: theology while also being funny, because you need to know
Speaker 1: it absolutely, and that's a great way to know it
Speaker 1: is to maybe put a spin out of you know.
Speaker 1: That was the thing about gospel music is telling people
Speaker 1: about the good news of the word, but put some
Speaker 1: comedy on it to where people can gospel comedy album.
Speaker 1: It's never been done before. Come on, Joe, what did
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris say? Come on, Joe, we did it. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna lie. I don't know if I'm breaking any
Speaker 1: hippo laws or that, but the therapist that I work
Speaker 1: with has a name similar to miss Harrison's. So when
Speaker 1: you sit here now, I was like, how did you know? Snap?
Speaker 1: Look that I'm probably just confirmation that you're moving in
Speaker 1: the right direction and to keep going. And okay, y'all,
Speaker 1: we're gonna finish this conversation off air. Joe, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for checking in. We want you to come
Speaker 1: back in the summertime. You're talking about speaking earlier. I
Speaker 1: will be back in the summertime. Come on, friends, All right, y'all,
Speaker 1: we'll talk again soon. Bye, Joe. Back to the kitchen,
Speaker 1: y'all be logging off. Goodbye. Wow. I was not expecting this, y'all.
Speaker 1: I was not expecting someone to be so honest about
Speaker 1: where they are or I was not expecting someone to
Speaker 1: be so open about what they're still working through. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of my previous guests I've had on
Speaker 1: have overcome things, but Joe is still working through things.
Speaker 1: Where he was honest enough to let you know that
Speaker 1: he's still working through things, and I'm gonna be honest
Speaker 1: enough to say I'm still working through some things as well.
Speaker 1: But where y'all like taking it back? When I asked him,
Speaker 1: is he okay? And he was like, nah, Like we
Speaker 1: got to be ready for those real answers, or make
Speaker 1: an environment safe enough for a person to really be
Speaker 1: honest about where they are. I am just I'm glad
Speaker 1: that he shared that he is in therapy and that
Speaker 1: he isn't counseling. He was just so honest about his
Speaker 1: diagnosis and just did not make the actual recording, but
Speaker 1: we were just talking about the level of trauma and
Speaker 1: abuse and the setbacks and everything that he's he's going through,
Speaker 1: and for him to be able to laugh in the
Speaker 1: midst of so much pain, gosh it just um, y'all
Speaker 1: wasn't ready. I'm gonna be honest, I was not ready,
Speaker 1: But I'm glad he has support around him, his wife
Speaker 1: and family and his counselor, And I just want to
Speaker 1: let you guys know to keep pushing in that there
Speaker 1: is hope. If you feel like your responses might seem
Speaker 1: irrational or very brad or whatever, nothing is wrong with
Speaker 1: going to see a psychiatrist and getting an assessment. You
Speaker 1: might want to go to your family physician first, right,
Speaker 1: your general practitioner, and let them know what's been going on,
Speaker 1: and then they can refer you to the specialists that
Speaker 1: they think you need. Gosh, I just want to see
Speaker 1: people free and have so much freedom with whatever diagnosis
Speaker 1: you have. This interview freed me, like when he was like,
Speaker 1: you can't care what people think, and he clearly does not.
Speaker 1: This young man was drafted to the NFL and it's
Speaker 1: doing his thing in music. Kobe Bryant was a mentor
Speaker 1: of his, a very close friend of his, and I
Speaker 1: know that things are going to go extremely well. They
Speaker 1: are going extremely well even while he is still open
Speaker 1: with what he is still working through. So I want
Speaker 1: to let you know that I love you so much
Speaker 1: and I'm so thankful that you take time every Tuesday
Speaker 1: to tune in and that you decide to check in
Speaker 1: I'm going to make sure that I have more interviews
Speaker 1: with people that are still working through things so that
Speaker 1: I don't want one listener to feel like they're alone.
Speaker 1: I don't want one listener to feel like, yeah, they
Speaker 1: can't relate to me. I'm still going through it, but
Speaker 1: they're all excited because they've overcome. M hmmm, I hear you,
Speaker 1: I feel you. I want you to know that I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do better even about making sure that i can
Speaker 1: talk to people that are willing to share what they're
Speaker 1: still working through and what they're still going through. And
Speaker 1: it's great to talk to people who have overcome certain
Speaker 1: things as well, because it lets you know it can
Speaker 1: be a goal of yours if you want to truly
Speaker 1: be overcome, and if you truly want to be fully
Speaker 1: truly healed of abuse and trauma, depression, anxiety, whatever it
Speaker 1: is that you're going through, this is a safe place
Speaker 1: to share. I want to thank those of you who
Speaker 1: every now and then pop up in my dams and
Speaker 1: share where you are. I just read something from a
Speaker 1: young lady not too long ago who is just saying
Speaker 1: that she's having a hard time and that my podcast
Speaker 1: is helping her. So I'm gonna let you know I
Speaker 1: love you, and I see you, and I'm so quaft
Speaker 1: that my podcast can be a place of hope, a
Speaker 1: place of safety for you. We'll talk again soon. Checking
Speaker 1: In with Michelle Williams is a production of I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio and The Black Effect. For more podcasts from I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.