Speaker 1: So crime f A shooting. I don't know what f
Speaker 1: A is. Precinct of occurrence. Ninth location in front of
Speaker 1: me and my producer Austin is something we always knew
Speaker 1: we needed, but we're never sure we'd be allowed to
Speaker 1: see something essential to ever understanding the full story of
Speaker 1: what happened to Billy Balls. We're finally holding the police
Speaker 1: report from Billy's shooting. The NYPD sent a small stack
Speaker 1: of statements, forensic reports, handwritten notes, and twelve crime scene photos.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh Jesus, this is a photograph of
Speaker 1: the front door of thirteen third Avenue. It's a black
Speaker 1: and white, super high contrast photograph, clearly taken at night,
Speaker 1: with a flash of the front of the storefront where
Speaker 1: my mom and Billy lived. And this is a crime
Speaker 1: scene photo. That's the words. I've heard so many stories
Speaker 1: from my mom about this storefront. It's wild to finally
Speaker 1: see the whole place. Oh my god. Now I'm looking
Speaker 1: at a photograph of the inside of their apartment. There's
Speaker 1: exposed pipes on the ceiling and and just ship everywhere.
Speaker 1: It's just one big open room and there's stuff piled
Speaker 1: on everything, and the bed is up on a platform
Speaker 1: in the back of the room near the kitchen. The
Speaker 1: other thing about this photo that this was exactly what
Speaker 1: my house looked like when I was a kid. I
Speaker 1: see evidence of her in this space. There's like some
Speaker 1: Grecian bust over here. There's flowers, there's the telephone, there's
Speaker 1: the workout gear, the movies, the records, like everything is out, everything,
Speaker 1: every evidence of being lives on display. The next photo
Speaker 1: is a photo of the bathtub that she said he
Speaker 1: installed for her. There's a beer can resting on the
Speaker 1: edge of the bathtub, and like bags of stuff on
Speaker 1: the ground, and there's two toothbrushes and holder on the wall.
Speaker 1: This was their world drawn. My brother had birds always,
Speaker 1: oh really mostly harmless little birds. Where did you keep
Speaker 1: all those birds? Isn't that pronounced av Harry? This is
Speaker 1: a photograph of a mirror. It's like the bottom piece
Speaker 1: of a mirror. Oh, there's a bullet hole in it.
Speaker 1: Snacks pictures of a dresser with bullet holes in it. God,
Speaker 1: how many shots did this fucking guy fire. This is
Speaker 1: a photograph of the moment that somebody's life changed forever.
Speaker 1: Nothing was the same after this day, not in his life,
Speaker 1: her life, Amanda's mine. This day changed everything from crime town.
Speaker 1: I'm io till it right and this is the ballad
Speaker 1: of Billy Balls. The dude with the cowboy hat broke
Speaker 1: down the door, shooting that wasn't undercover narcotics to texted
Speaker 1: on the north side of the street as the ninth precinct.
Speaker 1: I would like to hear if they still have records
Speaker 1: from then, where they would be and how one could
Speaker 1: get them released. The NYPD has sent us a call,
Speaker 1: if you will, of records. There is a story that
Speaker 1: the police tell here Chapter eight. Cops tend to shoot. Okay,
Speaker 1: so there's the complaint report. Storefront, Third Avenue arrested William
Speaker 1: heightsman age thirty seven, height five ft ten, weight hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty okay, oh shit. Defendant arrested and charged attempted
Speaker 1: murder of a police officer. Defendant did cock and point
Speaker 1: a loaded caliber automatic at undercover police officer number blank
Speaker 1: blocked out in an attempt to shoot said officer. Wow.
Speaker 1: After Billy's shooting the undercover cop, the guy in the
Speaker 1: cowboy hat gave a statement about what happened. We now
Speaker 1: have that statement. A d A O'Donohue from the Manhattan
Speaker 1: District Attorney's Office was present at the ninth Precinct and
Speaker 1: took a statement from undercover narcotics police officer shield number
Speaker 1: blacked out. The officer stated that he had gone to
Speaker 1: Avenue to make a narcotics purchase from a male known
Speaker 1: as Billy Piano William Heightsman. During the time that he
Speaker 1: was in the apartment, the police officer observed the subject
Speaker 1: look at a telephone number written on a newspaper and
Speaker 1: then call his suppliers. While the subject was on the phone,
Speaker 1: the PO managed to look at the number and then
Speaker 1: went into the bathroom to write the number down. We
Speaker 1: cool The subject came into the bathroom and observed the
Speaker 1: PO writing on the paper. At that point, the subject
Speaker 1: drew a caliber automatic and stated to the p O,
Speaker 1: give me the fucking paper. Give me the fucking paper.
Speaker 1: The PO slipped the paper in his pocket and walked
Speaker 1: out of the bathroom. The PURP was still holding the
Speaker 1: gun on him. The PO started to hand over his
Speaker 1: buy money and then drew his three eight automatic and
Speaker 1: fired seven rounds. The subject was struck at least five times.
Speaker 1: The PO was not sure if the PURP had managed
Speaker 1: to fire a shot the purp was removed by ambulance
Speaker 1: to cabrin Hospital. Caliber automatic was recovered at the scene
Speaker 1: and vouchered at the ninth precinct under and then it's
Speaker 1: blocked out. There were no witnesses to the actual shooting
Speaker 1: due to the fact that it took place inside the
Speaker 1: apartment and only the po and the subject were present.
Speaker 1: Forensic report from the crime scene unit Caliber Automatic, Webley
Speaker 1: and Scott shows no evidence of discharge. A single page
Speaker 1: forensic report says that the gun the undercover cop claims
Speaker 1: Billy poled was never fired. Next page says Cabrini Hospital
Speaker 1: doctor's name is also blacked out. Five torso front, one
Speaker 1: back and that's five shots in the torso and one
Speaker 1: in the back. Then we turned to a page that
Speaker 1: looks like it's been photo copied from some sort of notebook.
Speaker 1: This is just a piece of paper that's handwriting, that
Speaker 1: lists the kind of gun that Billy has, the serial
Speaker 1: number of it. And then this person wrote out the
Speaker 1: name of the guy in the cowboy had it's written
Speaker 1: here and blocked out. The name of the undercover cop
Speaker 1: has been covered by a big black rectangle. This is
Speaker 1: so frustrating because it's written by hand. It's almost like
Speaker 1: it's so close. In homicide cases like this in New
Speaker 1: York City, a detective is assigned to investigate whether the
Speaker 1: shooting is justified. During his investigation, the detective rights follow
Speaker 1: up reports that are known as d D five's. We
Speaker 1: turned to a d D five from the day after
Speaker 1: the shooting. Number one at hours which is five pm
Speaker 1: on June four two. I was president Cabrini Hospital and
Speaker 1: did attempt to interview the purp in this matter, one
Speaker 1: William Heightsman in I see you there at at the
Speaker 1: time of the attempted interview, the purpose in a semi
Speaker 1: conscious state and was unable to respond to our inquiries.
Speaker 1: The investigating detective tried to take Billy's statement on the
Speaker 1: first day he was in the hospital, but Billy couldn't talk.
Speaker 1: In another d D five, a detective reports a part
Speaker 1: of the case that has haunted my mother for decades
Speaker 1: June six one, Police Plaza, the purp William Heightsman, did
Speaker 1: expire from gunshot wounds at Cabrini Hospital on six fift two.
Speaker 1: And then it says case remains closed justifiable homicide. So
Speaker 1: that right there is the end of the investigation into
Speaker 1: what happened to Billy Balls As far as the police
Speaker 1: are concerned, they classified it as justifiable homicide and closed
Speaker 1: the case the day after he died. The day after
Speaker 1: he died. That's the last d D five that we have.
Speaker 1: That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. They're saying,
Speaker 1: first of all, that he had a gun, which we
Speaker 1: don't know if he had. Again, so not only is
Speaker 1: he saying that he had a gun, but he's saying
Speaker 1: he pulled it on him and cocked it, and still
Speaker 1: he had time to shoot seven rounds before Billy fired
Speaker 1: even one. I don't buy it. I don't know what
Speaker 1: any of this means. You know who does know what
Speaker 1: all of this means? He Austin run. How are you saying?
Speaker 1: I'm great? Man? How are you? I'm good? I wanted
Speaker 1: to see if they we could schedule a time to
Speaker 1: come by and talk through the police report. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: that would be great. Uh, that would be great. What
Speaker 1: works for you, Ron? I do have one more question, though,
Speaker 1: how do you think we should riff her to you?
Speaker 1: Because you're not our lawyer? Yeah? I mean, really, any
Speaker 1: anything that you want works in the law, cowboy, right?
Speaker 1: You know law outlaw hired Gun the Lost Linger. I
Speaker 1: I don't you know what? Really, pretty much anything works great,
Speaker 1: ron Koby the Lost Linger. After the break, how did partner?
Speaker 1: I'm very excited about what's about to happen. Austin and
Speaker 1: I show up to Ron Koby's office with high expectations
Speaker 1: that we'll get some answers. Thanks for seeing us. Ron
Speaker 1: leads us into a corner conference room. I think the
Speaker 1: office smells like dog pass I wonder how that happened. Well,
Speaker 1: luckily you have dogs. We sit down and the tone
Speaker 1: of the room changes as we begin looking through the
Speaker 1: police report. When you looked at the police report, generally,
Speaker 1: did anything jump out at you? So let me tell
Speaker 1: you how I read all of these documents together and
Speaker 1: the story that the police have. Ron starts with the
Speaker 1: detailed account of what happened inside the storefront that night.
Speaker 1: So the detective who who's making this report is speaking
Speaker 1: to the undercover. This is all sort of you know,
Speaker 1: within a couple hours of of the shooting. The undercover
Speaker 1: stated that he had gone to Third Avenue to make
Speaker 1: a narcotics purchase from a male known as Billy Piano.
Speaker 1: During the time that he was in the apartment. The
Speaker 1: PO observed the subject look at a telephone number written
Speaker 1: on a newspaper and then call his supplier, and and
Speaker 1: and so. Right now, at this moment, Billie has been
Speaker 1: pegged for exactly what he is, which very small time
Speaker 1: drug dealer, um street level drug deals. But he's obviously
Speaker 1: getting his drugs from somebody, and the idea is to
Speaker 1: find out who he's getting his drugs from, work your
Speaker 1: way up the chain until finally you get somebody who's
Speaker 1: actually worth arresting. So that makes perfect sense so far. Um.
Speaker 1: While the subject was on the phone, the police officer
Speaker 1: managed to look at the number and then went into
Speaker 1: the bathroom to write the number down. That also kind
Speaker 1: of makes perfect sense. The subject came into the bathroom
Speaker 1: and reserve the police officer writing on the paper. At
Speaker 1: this point, the subject to caliber automatic and stated to
Speaker 1: the p O, give me the fucking paper. Give me
Speaker 1: the fucking paper. And that also makes sense, the part
Speaker 1: that I don't buy entirely. Um. So the police officer
Speaker 1: slipped the paper in his pocket and walked out of
Speaker 1: the bathroom, presumably will be at LEAs still holding the
Speaker 1: gun on him, which strikes me as a needless risk.
Speaker 1: I mean, under those circumstances, when somebody's pointing a gun
Speaker 1: at you, saying, hand over the paper, hand of the paper,
Speaker 1: what does one do, hand over the fucking paper. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: So I don't entirely quote unquote by that account. The
Speaker 1: police officer walked out of the bathroom, the purp billy
Speaker 1: was still holding the gun on him. I mean, I
Speaker 1: kind of believe that billy lowers the gun or doesn't
Speaker 1: keep the gun trained on the comp And I kind
Speaker 1: of believe that based on what the cop is saying
Speaker 1: that he did. The police officer started to hand over
Speaker 1: his buy money and then drew his three eight automatic
Speaker 1: and fired some rounds. So then the subject was struck
Speaker 1: at least five times. Police also not sure if the
Speaker 1: perk managed to fire shots. Purpose removed to Cabrini Hospital,
Speaker 1: automatic was recovered the scene and vouchered at the ninth Precinct.
Speaker 1: Ron's conclusion, it's not huh exactly like the police say
Speaker 1: it is, but it's not a premeditated murder either. Part
Speaker 1: of the reason Run thinks it's not a premeditated murder
Speaker 1: is because the undercover cop describes using something called buy
Speaker 1: money with Billy buy money. And that's a term of art.
Speaker 1: When you go make an undercover operation, an undercover drug purchase,
Speaker 1: they record the serial numbers of the currency that's being
Speaker 1: handed over, and that way, when they make an arrest,
Speaker 1: they can report that, you know, the defendant had on
Speaker 1: him eighty dollars of pre marked by money. These are
Speaker 1: the serial numbers, and and and so that suggests, at
Speaker 1: the very least, this is not some rogue operation that
Speaker 1: the undercover is conducting on his own for the purpose
Speaker 1: of his own whatever. It suggests, this is all part
Speaker 1: of a real operation. I don't think Billy suspected for
Speaker 1: a minute that this was an undercover up. I think
Speaker 1: he thought this was just some you know, dirt bag
Speaker 1: buyer who was trying to um jump over him in
Speaker 1: the supply chain to cut out his profit margin. I
Speaker 1: don't think Billy intended to shoot anybody, or would have
Speaker 1: shot anybody. I think the gun was there silly for
Speaker 1: intimidation purposes. They recovered its caliber Webley and Scott. It's
Speaker 1: an old, not terribly great gun. This is this is
Speaker 1: not a serious gun in the sense of you don't
Speaker 1: go into combat situations with one of those things This is,
Speaker 1: this is a pocket pistol that you keep for intimidation
Speaker 1: purposes or maybe have to shoot somebody in run. And
Speaker 1: it's exactly the kind of gun that if if you
Speaker 1: thought that somebody was closing it on you and you
Speaker 1: get rid of most of your heavy duty firearms. It's
Speaker 1: the kind of thing you just sort of keep in
Speaker 1: your pocket. And if you're like just a regular dirtbag
Speaker 1: drug buyer, kind of street buyer kind of thing, so
Speaker 1: many points ave done it you you're going to be intimidated.
Speaker 1: You know, if if you're a cop and you happen
Speaker 1: to be carrying your own pocket pistol, a much bigger
Speaker 1: and better pocket pistol than the ones being pointed at you,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a very different response. What about the
Speaker 1: fact that the police report says Billy was shot five
Speaker 1: times in the torso and once in the back. If
Speaker 1: it were the other way around, five shots in the
Speaker 1: back of one of the torso, I'd be a lot
Speaker 1: more suspicious. And there's a couple of things about this.
Speaker 1: One is frequently what what is referred to casually as
Speaker 1: the back is the side um, And if it was
Speaker 1: a shot in the back, my My guess is that
Speaker 1: once the detective started firing, at some point Billy was
Speaker 1: turned or spun around. I mean, I guess there's a
Speaker 1: universe you could say, well, why don't you think he
Speaker 1: shot him once in the back and then Billy, having
Speaker 1: been shot in the back, turns around and gets five
Speaker 1: in the torso. And I guess the answer is, given
Speaker 1: the way this went down, I can't really see Billy
Speaker 1: turning his back to the undercover. So this is the
Speaker 1: forensic report was sent by the crime scene unit. The
Speaker 1: crime scene unit took a look at what they claim
Speaker 1: was Billy's gun, shows no evidence of discharge. Can you
Speaker 1: say Billy did not shoot towards the cop. Billy didn't
Speaker 1: didn't fire his gun at all, but as we know,
Speaker 1: the undercover cop definitely did. Um they recovered six auto
Speaker 1: discharged shells on the floor near the entrance. For the
Speaker 1: first time, this detail that all the discharged shells were
Speaker 1: found near the entrance sticks out to me. Okay, the
Speaker 1: cop in the bathroom, then getting out of the bathroom
Speaker 1: with a gun trained on you, and then getting all
Speaker 1: the way back across the apartment and you're by the door.
Speaker 1: You have now fully established that Not only is this
Speaker 1: person not going to shoot you, you're on the move,
Speaker 1: So why do you then basically get to the door
Speaker 1: where you could conceivably walk out and leave and turn
Speaker 1: around and shoot him. I agree, Like if you found
Speaker 1: one of the discharged shells near the entrance, you could say,
Speaker 1: all right, somebody kicked it in the scuffle, um, But
Speaker 1: all of them seemed to indicate that that was the
Speaker 1: area in which the cop was was shooting. But again,
Speaker 1: cops don't have to leave an armed perpetrator alone in
Speaker 1: an apartment. Cops get to shoot them, which is why
Speaker 1: I said all along, I don't think the killing happened
Speaker 1: exactly the way the undercover says, and they usually don't
Speaker 1: happen exactly the way the cops say. So the best
Speaker 1: argument you could make is that okay, UM probably didn't
Speaker 1: have to shoot him looking back on it, and I
Speaker 1: think that that's true, and somebody who was not a
Speaker 1: cop would have dealt with us in a different way.
Speaker 1: But the truth is that's what cops do. Cops see
Speaker 1: a gun, see an armed suspect, and they will shoot
Speaker 1: that armed suspect, whether they are in immediate danger or not.
Speaker 1: You know, cops tend to shoot. But are we sure
Speaker 1: Billy was an armed suspect? We asked Ron, if there's
Speaker 1: any possibility that the gun wasn't Billy's. Any possibility is,
Speaker 1: of course yes. To imagine that world, you would have
Speaker 1: to imagine that the undercover carries with him a throwaway
Speaker 1: gun or a gun to flake a suspect. And that's
Speaker 1: a risky thing to do. And let's assume that this
Speaker 1: detective is just such a bad, bad person that he
Speaker 1: always walks around with an extra gun to plant on
Speaker 1: somebody in case he he has to kill somebody. Is
Speaker 1: that possible? Sure? And is it possible that, for reasons
Speaker 1: that are utterly opaque, this relatively simple drug by from
Speaker 1: a relatively low level drug seller went so wrong somehow
Speaker 1: that the undercover decided he had to shoot him many
Speaker 1: many times and then lie about it and lantic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's all possible, But there's nothing to support that theory,
Speaker 1: and everything to support the notion that fundamentally, in terms
Speaker 1: of the way this all happened, the cop is telling
Speaker 1: the truth. The only place that that he's he's lying,
Speaker 1: I think, or or shadowing is just how much danger
Speaker 1: he actually felt he was in at the time when
Speaker 1: he withdrew his firearm and fired. You have undercover detective
Speaker 1: who's giving a very straightforward story, and then you have
Speaker 1: a guy who is in the hospital. He's charged with
Speaker 1: attempted murder of a police officer as well as other things,
Speaker 1: and then you know, tweeks later he dies the end. Sorry, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, It's fine. I get up and leave the room. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So wait, okay, so the rest of it we can
Speaker 1: wait for I or what else, whatever you want to do.
Speaker 1: What I guess do you with with a reaction like
Speaker 1: I have just had to this? Do you have experience
Speaker 1: with clients where you're you take a case thinking that
Speaker 1: it's like you were saying before, thinking it might be
Speaker 1: a good case, and then realizing that it's not, and
Speaker 1: then having to deal with the fallout from it with
Speaker 1: other people. Is that your role is that? I mean
Speaker 1: that that happens all the time. I mean, look, when
Speaker 1: you have to break it to them that this was
Speaker 1: you know, quote clean, shoot close quote, which is just
Speaker 1: sort of a legal term, which means this was legally justified.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of It doesn't make it right,
Speaker 1: it doesn't make it this it shouldn't happen. It is unfair.
Speaker 1: And all of these things that are that are totally true.
Speaker 1: They exist in an absolutely true universe. And people know that.
Speaker 1: But what they don't then understand is why they don't
Speaker 1: have a case. And you know, the answer is that
Speaker 1: the system is designed to make sure, under those circumstances
Speaker 1: they don't have a case. I mean, the system embodies
Speaker 1: structural violence. And and the most direct form of structural
Speaker 1: violence is the police. And and so you know, how
Speaker 1: many billy balls are you willing to allow to be
Speaker 1: killed to make sure you are safe? And the answer
Speaker 1: that most people give is just do whatever you need
Speaker 1: to do. Judges, jurors, citizens, courts are always willing to say, well,
Speaker 1: it's too bad, but that's what happens. You know, people
Speaker 1: want to be kept safe, and part of that is
Speaker 1: not second guessing every single thing the cops do. How
Speaker 1: do you reconcile that that balance between keeping the public
Speaker 1: safe and a system that embodies structural violence. I don't
Speaker 1: reconcile it. It's your reconcilable. I actually just threw up bathrone. No,
Speaker 1: I think I didn't expect that to happen. I know
Speaker 1: you're interviewing me. But why is this a surprise or
Speaker 1: a shock or a jarring sing? The mundanity of it
Speaker 1: is really painful. You hope that the greatest tragedy in
Speaker 1: somebody that you love as much as Sime getting so
Speaker 1: emotionalless so intense. I'm sure you're used to this from people,
Speaker 1: but you hope that the greatest tragedy in your mother's
Speaker 1: life is something extraordinary. You hope that it's not something
Speaker 1: as mundane as he was an idiot and hold a
Speaker 1: gun on a cop. You hope that it's not a
Speaker 1: narcotics detective want to go make a drug by and
Speaker 1: probably wasn't even looking for him, probably was looking for
Speaker 1: the guy higher up the chain, and he probably could
Speaker 1: have gotten out of it if he was a little
Speaker 1: less irrational, a little less wild, and a little more
Speaker 1: level headed, and if he hadn't pulled a gun, maybe
Speaker 1: he could have flipped or whatever the fuck. But the
Speaker 1: mundanity of it is just like makes me feel sick,
Speaker 1: literally actually just made me sick. Are you thinking about
Speaker 1: your mom and what interactions with her are going to be? Like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is this is heavy. I'm thinking, Yeah, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: gonna be really hard. And used to deliver. Right now,
Speaker 1: I'm grappling with an idea that made me puke. What
Speaker 1: if the story the guy in the cowboy hat told
Speaker 1: is true? Then what then? What am I doing here?
Speaker 1: Why did I dig all this ship up? Am I
Speaker 1: just going to destroy the story my mom has told
Speaker 1: herself to survive. I don't know what to do, but
Speaker 1: I do know who I want to talk to about everything.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're very close to the mica. There's one
Speaker 1: person who knows the situation and my relationship with my
Speaker 1: mom almost as well as I do. My name is
Speaker 1: Seth till It and then I was father and Rebecca's
Speaker 1: firstwhile lover. Yeah. Um, this is the police report from
Speaker 1: the incident. Wow, I'm just gonna read you one piece
Speaker 1: and then hand it to you. I show my dad
Speaker 1: the police report. Oh my god, God, it makes everything
Speaker 1: looks so tawdry and hopeless and like deadly. Jesus Christ,
Speaker 1: promise me something. You never show this to Rebecca. Don't
Speaker 1: do this. Why. I never thought there would be an
Speaker 1: actual eyewitness report of what happened, and we have absolutely
Speaker 1: no way of knowing whether that's true at all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: next week on the ballot of Billy Balls. If somebody
Speaker 1: who you thought was your life partner, your protector, you're
Speaker 1: like soulmate, is viciously murdered, your grief is of a
Speaker 1: different nature. It's not distinguishable from anger. It's rayging grief.
Speaker 1: It's like slaughter. Everybody grief. Crimetown is Zach Stewart Pontier
Speaker 1: and Mark Smirling. The Ballad of Billy Balls is hosted
Speaker 1: by me Io till It Right and made in partnership
Speaker 1: with Cadence thirteen. You can find me on the internet.
Speaker 1: U Io loves you on everything. I love hearing from
Speaker 1: you guys, and if you want to know more about
Speaker 1: my story, pick up my memoir Darling Days. We also
Speaker 1: want to hear from you. We have a voicemail set
Speaker 1: up for you to call us here summer. I just
Speaker 1: want to call and tell you guys, what's your podcast
Speaker 1: means me. I had a couple of friends that were
Speaker 1: brutally murdered. And you know, my friends weren't perfect, and
Speaker 1: the media but trade them is almost like deserving or complacent.
Speaker 1: It's just nice to people that care about what happens
Speaker 1: to people that other people might not consider. Course that
Speaker 1: just means a lot. Yeah, you know that's the point
Speaker 1: of this whole thing. Nobody deserves to be forgotten. There's
Speaker 1: something on your mind, or you have a story or
Speaker 1: a joke, or thoughts of feelings, or complaints, whatever, call
Speaker 1: us and leave us a voicemail at five seven oh
Speaker 1: three nine two nine zero. You can also get into
Speaker 1: our discussion forum on our website, The Ballad of Billie
Speaker 1: Balls dot Com, which this week I really think you
Speaker 1: should do because now there is a lot to work with.
Speaker 1: Go get your detective on. The show is produced by me,
Speaker 1: Kevin Shepard, and Ryan Swicker. Our senior producer is my
Speaker 1: Man Austin Mitchell, editing by Zach Stewart Pantier and Markus Smerling.
Speaker 1: Fact checking by Jennifer Blackman. I See you, Jenny. This
Speaker 1: episode was mixed by Sam Bear, sound design and music
Speaker 1: by Kenny Qcat. Our title track is Dark Allies by
Speaker 1: Light Asylum. The rest of their music is just as good,
Speaker 1: Go listen to it. Archival researched by Brennan Reese. Special
Speaker 1: thanks to Dan Yellow, Ariah Rachel Lee Wright, and Emily
Speaker 1: Wiederman for putting up with us. Green Card Pictures, Alessandro
Speaker 1: San Toro, Bill Plegg, Ben Davis or In Rosenbaum and
Speaker 1: the team at Cadence thirteen, and, of course, as always,
Speaker 1: my Mom, without whom none of this would be possible,