Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Ye,
Speaker 1: welcome back to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as
Speaker 1: always so much for tuning in. Let's give it up
Speaker 1: for the one and only super producer, Mr Max Williams,
Speaker 1: and I love the energy, guys. Let's also let's see
Speaker 1: also give it up for our research associate on this show,
Speaker 1: this episode, Mr Max Williams. Okay, al right, okay, you
Speaker 1: know what, you keep this up. Max, I'm gonna start
Speaker 1: going in and doing some post production because I got
Speaker 1: some opinions on these wos. I think, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: don't don't do that to our listeners. Our listenership will
Speaker 1: just fall off a cliff if you get in there.
Speaker 1: Well they called me Ben uh and we are so
Speaker 1: glad you're here, Ridiculous Historians, especially because you, like us,
Speaker 1: are getting the chance to hang out with an actual
Speaker 1: legend in the podcasting space. Uh, one of my dear friends,
Speaker 1: co founder of this show. We hang out all the time,
Speaker 1: and we still, for some reason, are our best friends. Uh. Folks,
Speaker 1: Mr Noel Brown a wott have bit awkward if you
Speaker 1: were talking about someone else and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true. I love that there. There's such a good
Speaker 1: trope in in in in movies where there's like a
Speaker 1: big speech where it's some you know, um family, you know,
Speaker 1: patriarch announcing who his successor will be, or a king,
Speaker 1: and then you see the one who thinks it's gonna
Speaker 1: be him, all chuffed in the audience, and then it's
Speaker 1: this other guy. I feel you. I feel that way
Speaker 1: every time. Um okay, so you guys know I'm I'm
Speaker 1: a sucker for advertising. I am so interested in nine
Speaker 1: percent of all types of food. Ever, I feel that
Speaker 1: way every time I have ordered fajitas in a restaurant,
Speaker 1: you know where they sizzle and and I see somebody
Speaker 1: coming out with a plate of sizzling fahitas and they
Speaker 1: walk on bhy like my heartbreaks. That has nothing to
Speaker 1: do with today's episode. That's just a universal human moment, folks.
Speaker 1: May your fahitas come for you? Uh man, have you
Speaker 1: seen that meme where it's the Alex Jones courtroom scene
Speaker 1: where he and is like everybody at the Mexican restaurant
Speaker 1: when someone orders sizzling fahitas, we're there with you. We
Speaker 1: have like so one thing that we really wanted to
Speaker 1: make like a day one rule when we started Ridiculous
Speaker 1: History number of years ago is we wanted to find
Speaker 1: these sort of universal truths. We wanted to correct the
Speaker 1: misconception that history is just a bunch of words and
Speaker 1: dusty textbooks. Uh, the people in these stories are very
Speaker 1: much like you. They're very much like us, regardless of
Speaker 1: how they may be portrayed, regardless of what they're known for.
Speaker 1: And one of the reasons we did a classic episode
Speaker 1: earlier this week, Noel, you and I A long time ago,
Speaker 1: we did episode just on presidential pets because, like many
Speaker 1: of our favorite episodes, we had this conversation off air
Speaker 1: about about pets and we were like, well, a lot
Speaker 1: of people have pets, and then before you know it,
Speaker 1: we're Uh, We're sitting there frantically searching on our phones
Speaker 1: about statistics of cat dog ownership in the US and abroad,
Speaker 1: and then we stumbled on this idea of presidents also
Speaker 1: being human and having pets. And uh, when Max forces
Speaker 1: with us and classed up the show a little, we found, Noel,
Speaker 1: that are are good pal. Mr Williams is also a
Speaker 1: cat lover. Now do you think we should uh, I
Speaker 1: think we should talk about cats for a second, well,
Speaker 1: I think we must and I actually it was introduced
Speaker 1: to a new to me term um that you you
Speaker 1: you guys may be familiar with. But the idea of
Speaker 1: of being a cat daddy, cat and daddy, yeah, cat daddy.
Speaker 1: I think it's like, I think there's some sexual vibes
Speaker 1: to it where you're sort of like a burly dude
Speaker 1: who who has lots of cats, a bit of of
Speaker 1: a of a bear, you know, like a like it's
Speaker 1: like a leather daddy, but it's a cat daddy, So
Speaker 1: I think it implies sensitivity, um, but also you know,
Speaker 1: brute strength and potentially down to clown in this in
Speaker 1: the bedroom. I don't know, it's just it's just a guess.
Speaker 1: Maybe I wasn't actually introduced to the true meaning with
Speaker 1: that whatever I heard ddy thrown around, I can't not
Speaker 1: think that. But yeah, I've become a bit of a
Speaker 1: cat daddy of late, I have to um of Vanessa
Speaker 1: and kom and um, I know you have one that
Speaker 1: shall not be named, isn't that right? And then also
Speaker 1: Dr Vankman, Yes, that's correct. No, I have two cats.
Speaker 1: One is named Dr Vankman, which is an amazing name.
Speaker 1: I can say that because it wasn't my idea. Uh.
Speaker 1: The second is a cat with many many names. You
Speaker 1: may see him occasionally, may hear him occasionally on the air.
Speaker 1: And uh Max Max Jaman you have since you said,
Speaker 1: we can say Max stands for whatever. Max. You have
Speaker 1: a cat as well, who we talked about in the
Speaker 1: past on our episodes. Oh yeah, yeah, my Sylvia, who
Speaker 1: I have a ceramic Sylvia right here for us to see.
Speaker 1: It's terrifying, but I have my Sylvia, who is a
Speaker 1: loud cat. She's a rescue herself. Though I can we
Speaker 1: have one cat because she would try to kill any
Speaker 1: other cats around. But uh yeah, I grythin assessment of
Speaker 1: what a cat daddy is and I can say that
Speaker 1: I fully am one. Okay, I'm proud of that. Alright,
Speaker 1: cat daddy's We're also going to introduce you to a
Speaker 1: another cat daddy, one of historical note folks, you you
Speaker 1: may remember one Abraham Lincoln as a famous trash talking wrestler.
Speaker 1: Fun note he was also president of the US once
Speaker 1: upon the time. But for our purposes today, the main
Speaker 1: thing we want to talk about is that Lincoln was
Speaker 1: a cat daddy, as you would say, nol yeah, possibly
Speaker 1: like one of the o G cat. I don't know. Cats.
Speaker 1: Cats are ancients, pats domesticated cats, you know, all the
Speaker 1: way back to you know, the Egyptians and stuff that
Speaker 1: there's so much cat imagery and a lot of their
Speaker 1: you know, hieroglyphs and things like that. There was cat worship,
Speaker 1: even a lot of deities that resembled cats and the like.
Speaker 1: But yeah, ab Lincoln uh, definite cat daddy. Um he
Speaker 1: uh was the sixteenth president of course of these United States,
Speaker 1: and he was just bananas for for for kiddies. He
Speaker 1: would just play with them, presumably spoke to them directly
Speaker 1: for like like extended periods of time. That's right, we
Speaker 1: we know you'll recall also, I believe from our previous
Speaker 1: Presidential Pets episode that was more focused on the dog side,
Speaker 1: or maybe it was this episode into itself, I can't remember.
Speaker 1: We definitely talked about Fido, which is like sort of
Speaker 1: become this like cliche kind of stand in for dog,
Speaker 1: kind of like xerox is to you know, mimiographs or
Speaker 1: whatever or carper machines. Fido mainly from cartoons. I've never ever,
Speaker 1: in a million years known a person with a dog
Speaker 1: named Fido because it's so cliche that no one would
Speaker 1: ever do it. But it's like you see in bugs
Speaker 1: Bunny cartoons like hey Fido, come here, boy fight whatever.
Speaker 1: And it was because of of President Lincoln's dog, Fido,
Speaker 1: who they had to leave back home in Springfield, Illinois,
Speaker 1: where we're from, because the dog was a little skittish,
Speaker 1: not to take too well to excitement and chaos that
Speaker 1: comes along with, you know, being elected president. So they
Speaker 1: adopted the dog out to some some neighbor friends. Um,
Speaker 1: but kitties, as we know, are a little more resilient,
Speaker 1: I would argue, Um, for better or for worse. I mean,
Speaker 1: I would also argue that kiddies, you know, don't give
Speaker 1: a f you know when it comes to like people
Speaker 1: and dogs are much more doting. But Lincoln believed that
Speaker 1: the kiddies were. He he liked something about that vibe,
Speaker 1: the way that they kind of just you know, we're
Speaker 1: a little indifferent. But also you know, snuggly, especially kittens.
Speaker 1: He loved kittens, was always rescuing him, snuggling them and whatnot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a kitten guy, and he uh, you know. One
Speaker 1: time someone asked Lincoln's spouse, Mary Todd Lincoln, and they said,
Speaker 1: just did your husband have a hobby? Does the old
Speaker 1: man have a hobby? And she just said yes, cats.
Speaker 1: He was elected president, had to bid fond farewell off.
Speaker 1: He just ain't to Fido, and Secretary of State at
Speaker 1: the time, William Seward, said, I can't let it in
Speaker 1: this way. So he gave the president two kittens as
Speaker 1: a gift, sort of a congratulations, sort of a surprise.
Speaker 1: And the President, old Abe was all about these cats.
Speaker 1: He named them Tabby and Dixie, and he did things
Speaker 1: that are familiar to a lot of people who get
Speaker 1: uh very far in the extreme cat loving spectrum. Uh.
Speaker 1: He once had a formal dinner at the White House
Speaker 1: and had Tabby over and fed her at the table.
Speaker 1: No report on what the other attendees, the human attendees
Speaker 1: of the dinner thought, but Mary Todd was kind of embarrassed.
Speaker 1: She said, this action is shameful in front of our guests.
Speaker 1: And then this is when Abes trash talking wrestling comes back.
Speaker 1: He's got a clap back, dude. Yeah, he said something
Speaker 1: to the effect of, uh, if this golden spoon is
Speaker 1: worthy of the former president James Buchanan, Well, I think
Speaker 1: it is good enough for the Tabby. For Tabby, I
Speaker 1: guess that's meant to be a dig at James Buchanan.
Speaker 1: Uh is that is? That? Is that right? I mean
Speaker 1: it's a little little column, a little column b. It's
Speaker 1: partly a dig at Buchanan's partially saying my cat's awesome,
Speaker 1: though it's a big up to Tabby, A bit of
Speaker 1: a day to to Buchanan. You know what I like
Speaker 1: about Lincoln though, he really is you know, one of
Speaker 1: the first kind of like kind of fish out of
Speaker 1: water presidents. You know, he was sort of this hay
Speaker 1: seed that kind of like took his country ways to
Speaker 1: the White House. And it's like, you know, I just
Speaker 1: picture him like wearing shoes look like up toe poking
Speaker 1: out of the shoe because his warm as he doesn't
Speaker 1: he refuses to get a new pair of shoes until
Speaker 1: they're purely worn out. And you know, Mary Todd was
Speaker 1: just a little bit more trying to adapt to this.
Speaker 1: I don't know, this is just my imagination running wild here,
Speaker 1: but the wrestling and just the kind of outdoors men
Speaker 1: Lee Beardy nest of Lincoln just really does make me
Speaker 1: see him as this kind of like fun fish out
Speaker 1: of water, you know, Washington. Mr Lincoln goes to Washington
Speaker 1: kind of story. Yeah, yeah, and his he had a
Speaker 1: quite strange, dare I say unprecedented rise to the position
Speaker 1: of Commander in chief. It's the story for another day.
Speaker 1: We're Ridiculous Cats in this episode, we're Ridiculous cats talking
Speaker 1: about cats as someone work on that, we'll fix it
Speaker 1: and post. Lincoln has this friend named Caleb, Caleb Carmen,
Speaker 1: and Caleb is the guy who tells us about how
Speaker 1: Abe would talk to his cats. He would just choose
Speaker 1: one at random, either Tabby or Dixie. He would pick
Speaker 1: it up and he would just talk to it for
Speaker 1: thirty minutes, you know, all the like. Imagine Abraham Lincoln
Speaker 1: doing baby talk to cats. That's what he was. And
Speaker 1: also I want to point out about domestication. Cats are
Speaker 1: really interesting. Cats domesticated themselves. They're not truly domestic cadid creatures.
Speaker 1: They just hung out in um. What you could argue
Speaker 1: is uh mutualism in terms of organisms interacting. But cats,
Speaker 1: unlike dogs, were not really domesticated by people. That's why
Speaker 1: if you have cats, if you live with cats, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't say own them. If you live with them. That's
Speaker 1: why they have a lot of natural wild animal tendencies.
Speaker 1: It wasn't bred out of them. That's why if they
Speaker 1: think you can't hunt, or they think you're getting a
Speaker 1: little skinny and they want to impress you, they go
Speaker 1: and you know, they catch a mouse and they bring
Speaker 1: it to you and eviscerated and make this weird sort
Speaker 1: of grand dunal tapestry. For I think we've all experienced that, right, absolutely, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Now it's true, like um with the I think I
Speaker 1: talked about a previous cat that I had that would
Speaker 1: just leave these like weird assembly bits of severed parts
Speaker 1: from various animals, like in these you know, true detective
Speaker 1: esque array is like on the porch, like like with
Speaker 1: a little garland of grass, you know, around the end
Speaker 1: of a mouse and the body. Yeah, it's it's truly
Speaker 1: maccab And then there's one time, my why this is
Speaker 1: this is an ongoing thing and like you know, people
Speaker 1: always say, oh, they're just they're they're they're trying to
Speaker 1: give you a present. I'm like, I think it's a threat.
Speaker 1: I think it's a threat. It's like this could be you,
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of like also it's it's a
Speaker 1: sort of their way of saying, you suck at hunting.
Speaker 1: Here learn but but yeah, but Lincoln, Lincoln had all
Speaker 1: these cat owner moments. You're listening, if you're listening in
Speaker 1: the year this comes out, Folks, you're listening, and if
Speaker 1: you have a cat, you probably have some questions or
Speaker 1: observations about your own little fur ball of fury. Lincoln
Speaker 1: has all your same questions, all your same fascinations. One time,
Speaker 1: he gets pissed at his cabinet in his first term
Speaker 1: as precedent, and he says, this is a quote. He says,
Speaker 1: Dixie is smarter than my whole cabinet. And furthermore, she
Speaker 1: doesn't talk back. He was. He was not cool with it.
Speaker 1: He also, by the way, didn't just stick with Dixie
Speaker 1: and Tabby. He would find stray cats and sometimes he
Speaker 1: would bring him home or they would follow him home.
Speaker 1: And this happens often. It doesn't just happen in d C.
Speaker 1: One time he was meeting with General Ulysses S. Grant, Yes,
Speaker 1: that General Grant, who later became president himself. He's meeting
Speaker 1: with him City Point, Virginia. There's a siege happening. It's
Speaker 1: the siege of Petersburg March eighteen six, and Lincoln is
Speaker 1: having problems paying attention to the general during the siege
Speaker 1: because part way through he's going, well, hold on, hold on,
Speaker 1: you're here. That sounds like sounds like kittens. Yes, it does.
Speaker 1: And if you hear that, move aside, General, there's kittens
Speaker 1: in need. There's an animal in trouble. Anybody who has
Speaker 1: kid wonder wonder pets, that's what that's what hey. Lincoln
Speaker 1: was like his ears would perk up and he go
Speaker 1: the phone, the phone is ringing, and anything's running and
Speaker 1: rescue the kittens. And there are accounts of the way
Speaker 1: he would just dote on these rescue kittens. A guy
Speaker 1: named Admiral David Porter, in what I would argue as
Speaker 1: a bit of a subtweet, says he was struck by
Speaker 1: the side of the president quote tenderly caressing three straight kittens,
Speaker 1: and that it well illustrated the kindness of the man's
Speaker 1: disposition and showed the childlike simplicity with which was mingled
Speaker 1: with the grandeur of his nature. A little bit of
Speaker 1: a isn't that a little bit of a backhanded compliment
Speaker 1: the childlike simplicity? Yeah, I could say I could say
Speaker 1: it's a little bit of it's edits ororeal license at
Speaker 1: the very least right, and and he also the same guy.
Speaker 1: Admiral Porter also says Lincoln would talk to the cats
Speaker 1: and be like kitties. Then god, you are cats and
Speaker 1: can't understand this terrible strife that's just going on. Who's
Speaker 1: your widow, pretty widow? Fooball, pay no attention, pay no
Speaker 1: attention to this civil war. We find ourselves in the
Speaker 1: midst of max Is above our attempts to do Lincoln
Speaker 1: baby talk. I see you mane zie and weird. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we definitely did. But yeah, I mean he also like,
Speaker 1: you know, again, this is like a wartime president. He's
Speaker 1: he's going to back to his his presidential tent or whatever.
Speaker 1: And he says to a colonel, I leans in and says,
Speaker 1: I hope you will see that these poor little motherless
Speaker 1: waives are given plenty of milk and treated kindly. And no,
Speaker 1: he's not referring to actual like orphans. He's referring to kitties, Maxican.
Speaker 1: We sound cute and all they're like the most obnoxious
Speaker 1: cutesy Ah. There it is perfect. It does seem like
Speaker 1: he was a good guy. I will say, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, presidents are complicated, history is complicated. We know
Speaker 1: that that Lincoln wasn't like perfect. He really is held
Speaker 1: up there as this like you know, paragon of like
Speaker 1: you know, um presidential empathy and like he you know,
Speaker 1: he's he free the slaves. He was the greatest man
Speaker 1: ever lived. But we know that that that there was
Speaker 1: some you know, complexities to that. But it will I
Speaker 1: will say that for his time, this whole all this
Speaker 1: kitty love really makes me feel like he had a
Speaker 1: you know, had a pretty good heart. I would say, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: let me to that point about complexity. Let me let
Speaker 1: me bring into the conversation a quotation that Max found
Speaker 1: that go into your note about subtweets Snoll and also
Speaker 1: going to the note about complexity. There's a Treasury official,
Speaker 1: Mansell B. Fields, which is a weird name, uh, who
Speaker 1: writes about Lincoln in the following way. He says, President
Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln quote possessed extraordinary kindness of heart when his
Speaker 1: feelings could be reached. What he says, he was fond
Speaker 1: of dumb animals, especially cats. I've seen him fondle one
Speaker 1: for an hour. Fondle meant something very different back then
Speaker 1: helplessness and suffering touched him when they appealed directly to
Speaker 1: his senses or when you could penetrate through his intelligence
Speaker 1: to them. So it sounds like he's saying, uh, there's
Speaker 1: some kind of wall around Lincoln's mind, right, like only
Speaker 1: like he may be hardhearted or cold to a lot
Speaker 1: of human beings, but if you're infantile enough or feel
Speaker 1: it enough, arguably, then all of a sudden, he's your
Speaker 1: biggest fan. Does that feel like a subtweet to you?
Speaker 1: It's just it gets me where he says possessed extraordinary
Speaker 1: kindness of heart when his feelings could be reached right
Speaker 1: and implied that he was a bit of I don't know,
Speaker 1: a tough nut to crack, and then he and then
Speaker 1: maybe it's like, you know, all this kitten love and
Speaker 1: stuff is like that is a way that maybe a
Speaker 1: person that is typically not able to be emotionally vulnerable,
Speaker 1: you know, to humans, is able to exhibit that level
Speaker 1: of vulnerability. But only two creatures, you know. It strikes
Speaker 1: strikes me as that that that Lincoln would have been
Speaker 1: a very perhaps a difficult man and uh and an
Speaker 1: emotionally you know, guarded man, but with the kiddies. He
Speaker 1: could just let it all hang out, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a dent. And again to the point about Fido that
Speaker 1: we raised earlier. Uh, Lincoln was a yes, all pets
Speaker 1: kind of dude. He you know, there's a great ongoing
Speaker 1: debate nowadays about whether someone is a dog or a
Speaker 1: cat person. Lincoln rejects these labels. He had tons of
Speaker 1: pets during his life, even had a pig. That's a
Speaker 1: true story, but that is a sad story. And on
Speaker 1: the advice of our pal Max, we are leaving it
Speaker 1: out of the narrative unless you have a declaration to
Speaker 1: make about this, Max for ridiculous historians. Oh, I have
Speaker 1: a declation, Maka. I actually wrote in the in the brief,
Speaker 1: this is too heartbreaking the start. We're not going to
Speaker 1: talk about it. That's it. Yeah, okay, well that's we
Speaker 1: set you up to confirm that, all right. So if
Speaker 1: you are feeling in too good of a mood, if
Speaker 1: you're having too good of a day and you need
Speaker 1: to take it down and notch, look up Lincoln's pet pig.
Speaker 1: So we talked about other pets Lincoln had. In a
Speaker 1: previous episode, we mentioned his dogo Fido. We should also
Speaker 1: note that Lincoln had multiple ponies. They technically belonged to
Speaker 1: his sons, but come on, he was there, and he was,
Speaker 1: you know, chuffing with them and and petting their manes
Speaker 1: and saying like I wish you were the secretary of
Speaker 1: Defense or whatever. And then he had a white rabbit.
Speaker 1: He had two goats. We know the names of the goats,
Speaker 1: Nanco and Nanny. He had another dog named Jip. And
Speaker 1: he was associated with a pet turkey once upon a time. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he had yeah, exactly. Uh Jack was that was the
Speaker 1: name of the of the turkeys. There was Jip the
Speaker 1: dog and Jack the turkey. Sounds like a classic setup
Speaker 1: for an animated pair of adventurers. Yeah, I'm thinking of
Speaker 1: Jake the dog and Finn the human. The funnel never end,
Speaker 1: It's adventure time, lovely show. Um, so yeah we we.
Speaker 1: We can now probably move on to a president. And
Speaker 1: I don't typically think of um Franklin Pierce. I think
Speaker 1: that's probably true for most folks. He wasn't really considered
Speaker 1: one of the best presidents. I didn't do anything outward
Speaker 1: and horrific. He was just he was just a little
Speaker 1: bit of a turd, you know. He was like a
Speaker 1: bad outfielder, you know, he's just kind of it's kind
Speaker 1: of stood around. He did he did the open trade
Speaker 1: relationship with Japan, which was kind of a big deal. Right,
Speaker 1: I don't know why I need the guy so are there.
Speaker 1: That's a big deal. But he really isn't a president
Speaker 1: that you know, comes to mind as like being like
Speaker 1: one of the greats. Uh. He thought abolition was a
Speaker 1: fundamental threat to the United States. So it's very pro slavery.
Speaker 1: Just gonna pop that in there, whatever you think of
Speaker 1: Franklin Pierce. Yeah, that's that's his that's where he's calling from,
Speaker 1: as rum M Carver would say. But he did have pets,
Speaker 1: didn't he. That's why we're talking about. Yeah, and and
Speaker 1: then then you know, it seems like some of this
Speaker 1: maybe stemmed from that that relationship with Japan. He had
Speaker 1: He had dogs that were some of the earliest examples
Speaker 1: of the breed known as the Japanese chin um, which
Speaker 1: were huge in Japan. But they yes, right, they're they're
Speaker 1: small everywhere, but they're very popular in Japan. And this
Speaker 1: is like sort of an example of them coming over
Speaker 1: here for the first time. Uh, they're which you would
Speaker 1: call toy dogs, you know, um toy sized dogs, like
Speaker 1: like miniature, which I believe is Isn't that a process
Speaker 1: that requires some pretty gnarly in breeding and weird breeding pressing. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of eugenics. Yeah, I mean, dog breeding in
Speaker 1: general gets pretty crazy. And maybe we can do a
Speaker 1: history of dog breeding in the future, but Yukonuba definitely
Speaker 1: will not sponsor that because it gets dark really quickly.
Speaker 1: You're you're right, No, you're absolutely right. Uh he he did,
Speaker 1: as you said, open trade relations with Japan, and that
Speaker 1: was quite a coupe because Japan had for many, many years, centuries,
Speaker 1: they had closed their borders to almost every foreign trading party.
Speaker 1: So he sends this guy named Matthew Perry, US representative,
Speaker 1: also commodore. Commodore Matthew Perry goes back to the States
Speaker 1: after cracking this deal with Japan, and he says, hey,
Speaker 1: President Pierce, I got you something. Here are the seven
Speaker 1: very tiny dogs. And they're not just tiny, their teacup size,
Speaker 1: so any dog Fishionado knows that as the tiniest absolute
Speaker 1: tiniest dog. And they were called I believe they were
Speaker 1: called sleeve dogs because if you had the right kind
Speaker 1: of outfit, like say a kimono. You could fit them
Speaker 1: up in your sleeve. I guess they're you know what
Speaker 1: they are. They're like a in my head, dude. They're
Speaker 1: like a predecessor of the emotional support animal that is
Speaker 1: so popular now. Yeah, um, you know it's funny. It's
Speaker 1: just a back duck really quickly. It's a little trivia moment.
Speaker 1: Not really trivia, I guess, but you I know you
Speaker 1: from you're familiar with the Cohen Brothers anthology Western The
Speaker 1: Ballot of Buster scrugs uh. And there's one of the
Speaker 1: chapter is this that's one of the longer ones, and
Speaker 1: it's it's really really good, incredible twist, very sad um
Speaker 1: but excellence, called the Gal who Got Rattled, And in
Speaker 1: it there is a dog named President Pierce. It takes
Speaker 1: place presumably during this time. Um, so they knew about
Speaker 1: Pierce and it seemed seemed fits. But I believe it
Speaker 1: was even like it was her brother's dog and he's
Speaker 1: kind of an idiot politically, and so I think there
Speaker 1: was this this um the sense that Pierce wasn't a
Speaker 1: particularly good president, but his brother like supported him and
Speaker 1: therefore naing the dog after him. Uh, and it might
Speaker 1: be I might be misreading that, but it did just
Speaker 1: occur to me. Yeah, and so these dogs are not
Speaker 1: universally loved. You could say, we'd like to introduce a
Speaker 1: character named Verena Davis. She was the spouse of a
Speaker 1: guy who was serving as the Secretary of War at
Speaker 1: the time. One of Max's favorite political figures in US history,
Speaker 1: guy named Jefferson Davis. Now, Max, you have a sound
Speaker 1: cue for us. Yes. Also, I just want to stay
Speaker 1: it very clearly that Ben was being sarcastic when he
Speaker 1: said one of my favorite political figures. I really do
Speaker 1: not want anyone out there thinking I like Jefferson Davis
Speaker 1: of all people. So you've heard it conclusively. Uh. If
Speaker 1: you are a fan of Jefferson Davis, then please follow
Speaker 1: Max on Twitter. Uh, so you guys can talk about it. Uh,
Speaker 1: he is are you trying to No? No, no, no, Max,
Speaker 1: being a tremendously good person, also knows that Jefferson Davis
Speaker 1: is a piece of wet garbage. So anyhow to his
Speaker 1: friends j D to his friends, Yeah, they're all terrible people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you knail, you brought it home. Yeah. So now that
Speaker 1: we're done dancing, on the grave of that terrible person.
Speaker 1: Let's point out that his wife had some opinions regarding
Speaker 1: Pierces dogs. She described the dogs, these seven dogs, who
Speaker 1: are again tiny, as having quote head like a bird
Speaker 1: with a blunt beak, eyes large and popped, and a
Speaker 1: body like a newborn puppy of the smallest kind. And
Speaker 1: then she said they can scamper around on a coffee sauce.
Speaker 1: They're so tiny. And we don't know if she loved
Speaker 1: them or if she hated them, but that gives you
Speaker 1: a sense of how how small these sleeve dogs were.
Speaker 1: Pierce loved them, by the way. He was over the moon. Uh,
Speaker 1: nobody could say that, Like if you've ever hung out
Speaker 1: with your friends who are clearly treating a small dog
Speaker 1: as their child, and you know they're saying stuff like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you know, we shouldn't eat waffles in front of Rupert
Speaker 1: because it offends his sensibilities. He's a sensitive boy. This
Speaker 1: is how Pierces with his dogs. And he kept showing
Speaker 1: like he One day showed up to talk with Jefferson
Speaker 1: Davis more like Jevis to du Fis. He shows up
Speaker 1: at the Davis place and he says, generally have a
Speaker 1: dog for you. And then uh, Pierce gives one of
Speaker 1: these seven tiny dogs to Secretary Jefferson Davis. You suck,
Speaker 1: you sucked, Davis go home, turns and Davis Davis names
Speaker 1: this dog. He accepts the dog, accepts delivery of the dog.
Speaker 1: He names it bon In b O N I N
Speaker 1: and named dogs by Bonin and Uh. He carries little
Speaker 1: bon In around in his pocket. So we can only
Speaker 1: imagine this is just us guessing, felt ridiculous historians. We
Speaker 1: can only imagine that a multiple times during his life
Speaker 1: someone asked, Jefferson Davis, is that a bone in your pocket?
Speaker 1: Are you just happy to see me? Why? Why does
Speaker 1: it have to be one or the other? Why? Why
Speaker 1: does the why are those things mutually exclusive? Right? Good question?
Speaker 1: Lost to history maybe, And so he gives the uh.
Speaker 1: He only keeps one of these seven dogs. He gives
Speaker 1: the others to his friends. Like we mentioned, uh, mr
Speaker 1: boo hiss Davis. And we don't know much about how
Speaker 1: these dogs lives went. We know that they were for
Speaker 1: a time, they were kind of like an important political currency, right,
Speaker 1: You were able to convey favor if you were Franklin
Speaker 1: Pierce by saying, hey, here's one of my exclusive run dogs.
Speaker 1: And uh. This did always remind people of trade relations
Speaker 1: with Japan. As weird as it sounds, those very little
Speaker 1: dogs made some very big history. So let's move on
Speaker 1: to America's first and so far only bachelor president. Let's say, uh,
Speaker 1: as as you noted Max, just because he didn't take
Speaker 1: a spouse, I mean to have a partner, but an
Speaker 1: official partner. Just because he didn't take a spouse didn't
Speaker 1: mean he didn't enjoy some companionship. Walked through those multiple
Speaker 1: negatives on your own, folks. He had a pair of dogs. Uh.
Speaker 1: He also had eagles. He had a legit pair of
Speaker 1: bald eagles. So America, man, I know, I know, uh,
Speaker 1: and they would He was not one of those people
Speaker 1: who were clipping the wings and keeping them in cages.
Speaker 1: He attained these eagles. They were not domesticated, of course,
Speaker 1: they're not domesticated animals, but he attained them to the
Speaker 1: point where they would fly away from their cages and
Speaker 1: then they would come back. They just liked hanging out.
Speaker 1: They associated Buchanan with um with a good life, which
Speaker 1: a lot of people in the US rightly did not
Speaker 1: at the time. But now for a little bit of
Speaker 1: a quick run trivia game or a laundry list, nol.
Speaker 1: I propose that we just round robin the many many
Speaker 1: pets A former president Rutherford B. Hayes. Great name, by
Speaker 1: the way, I've always liked Rutherford. It's just an old
Speaker 1: timey name, you know. It's a name you can't see.
Speaker 1: This got a good mouth feel. It just kind of
Speaker 1: rolls around in there. Yes, yeah, it really does. First off,
Speaker 1: we have Hector. The Newfoundland dog is a breed of
Speaker 1: of Newfoundland of Newfoundlandic origin, Duke possibly English Massiff, but
Speaker 1: don't d us. Yeah, some of these they're there. You know,
Speaker 1: there's some speculation as to the breed. We've got Grim.
Speaker 1: I think it's a cool name for a greyhound, especially
Speaker 1: they are very dire looking creatures. Otis mini toure full
Speaker 1: are just too much too Germany. Yeah. Yeah. And then
Speaker 1: we've got Dot, a Cocker Spaniel Juno and shep to
Speaker 1: hunting dogs. Sheep is a great name for a dog,
Speaker 1: by the way. Um, we've got Jeff is almost my name.
Speaker 1: Thank god I got in a car accident on the
Speaker 1: way to the Yeah true story anyway, Jet Wow, my
Speaker 1: name was almost Lyle that's a good name. I know,
Speaker 1: we we we we love a lile. He's a he's
Speaker 1: a dear friend of us both. But it would have
Speaker 1: been awkward if you had the same name. But I
Speaker 1: think actually don't like crossed it off my birth certificate
Speaker 1: or something. But that that's that. That could just be
Speaker 1: Lower Noel Brown Lower. Next guy can call me Shepherd
Speaker 1: if you want Jets. Yes, Jet is a mutton. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I would like to propose that I remained the
Speaker 1: primary shep of this show. Shepherd im in troubled Uh. Siam, who,
Speaker 1: funnily enough is this is a cat fact hashtag cat fact.
Speaker 1: Siam is the first Siamese kitten to reach North America. Wow,
Speaker 1: and a burst of creativity, as you would say, really
Speaker 1: really leaned into that one. Uh, that's one. I'm sorry
Speaker 1: you gotta say this one with a mint. Julia Boys
Speaker 1: Stewart miss pussy who was another sign he's cat. And
Speaker 1: then there's Piccolini. Picco You've got to raise your fish
Speaker 1: in like a little cadence, you know, with your touching
Speaker 1: your middle finger to your thumb. Piccolomini is a cat.
Speaker 1: It sounds like an Italian restaurant. I love it. And
Speaker 1: then we just have a goat. Yeah, but who knows.
Speaker 1: I want to know more about this mysterious goat. Mr President,
Speaker 1: what's your goats name? Leave? You have to leave now? Uh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: the goat probably had a big, big voice in policy.
Speaker 1: Then he had a mocking bird, but that wasn't the
Speaker 1: only bird he had. He had four canaries as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he got some cows. That's how you know you're making it.
Speaker 1: Back then he had Jersey cows. He also had Yeah,
Speaker 1: they were they were pedigreed, by the way, not just
Speaker 1: any run of the mill Jersey cows. These where these
Speaker 1: were these were pure bred Jersey cows. And then he
Speaker 1: also had several carriage horses. And this is even more
Speaker 1: impressive when, as you pointed out, Max, we realized this
Speaker 1: guy served only one term as president, so he was
Speaker 1: spending a lot of time at the petting zoo basically.
Speaker 1: And so now let's give an honorable mention to former
Speaker 1: President Millard Fillmore. We don't know a ton about his
Speaker 1: pets other than a couple of ponies he had Mason
Speaker 1: and Dixon, get it. But he definitely cared about animals.
Speaker 1: This was something new to me until I didn't know
Speaker 1: this until we went into the research. But he helped
Speaker 1: found a chapter of the American Society for Prevention of
Speaker 1: Cruelty to Animals or ASPCA in his hometown in Buffalo,
Speaker 1: New York, all the way back in March of eighteen
Speaker 1: sixty seven. And this wasn't just a pr thing for him,
Speaker 1: like he honestly cared about it. He led local meetings,
Speaker 1: he would use he did this three was president. Obviously
Speaker 1: he used his juice, his political capital too, like influence
Speaker 1: the laws to change laws so that animals in Buffalo
Speaker 1: would be treated better, which is that's cool, right? Yeah? Man?
Speaker 1: You know. And one thing that's it's a commonality in
Speaker 1: the in these cases is usually you see that the
Speaker 1: presidents that had the most pets and that treated them well,
Speaker 1: we're probably relatively not beastly human beings. And it's always
Speaker 1: a little sketchy when you have a president that doesn't
Speaker 1: take a pet, because it's such a tradition to have
Speaker 1: a presidential pet. The ones that don't must really hate animals.
Speaker 1: That's my theory. I don't know what you think about that. Okay,
Speaker 1: we have to talk about it. Then we have to
Speaker 1: talk about it. Because we looked into this, folks, there
Speaker 1: is one president that may have not had a pet.
Speaker 1: And now history is a little unclear on this, and
Speaker 1: we have, you know, we have a silver lining at
Speaker 1: the end of the show here. But of the few
Speaker 1: presidents who were thought to have not had any pets
Speaker 1: at all, one of the ones who stands out to
Speaker 1: us is former US President James K. Polk. You won't
Speaker 1: find any canonical historical mention of him being a pet guy.
Speaker 1: A cat daddy, he is not. But we know he's
Speaker 1: good with horses, so you would have to assume he
Speaker 1: had some sort of relationship with various steeds. And then
Speaker 1: of course there's Andrew Johnson. Now, Andrew Johnson is a
Speaker 1: little bit of a in my head, he's a little
Speaker 1: bit of a ratitude president. What do I mean by that, Well,
Speaker 1: he never formally had pets, but the guy loved mice
Speaker 1: and he didn't want to kill him, and he would leave,
Speaker 1: you know, little like pieces of cheese out there. I
Speaker 1: like the idea of him doing the radituy thing all
Speaker 1: the way, you know what I mean? Like, I like
Speaker 1: the idea of a mouse under a hat was president.
Speaker 1: The mouse was the president the whole time. He was
Speaker 1: the brains operation. No. I love that Ben. That is that.
Speaker 1: I don't know how much brains was going into the
Speaker 1: Johnston administration though, I'm clear not not much hot take
Speaker 1: hot historical presidential take when it comes to Johnston. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's really even that hot of a take. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I just don't know. I just don't really know much
Speaker 1: about him. He was, he was one of he was.
Speaker 1: He was kind of a monster, right, He was a
Speaker 1: known bad dude. He kind of killed reconstruction. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: he was not what we would call a banger of
Speaker 1: a president today. First president to be impeached. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if I mentioned this in the past, but even
Speaker 1: if you go to his hometown and you ask people
Speaker 1: about him, they'll say, yeah, not that, not that great.
Speaker 1: He's not He's not anybody's favorite except maybe some some mice.
Speaker 1: Maybe you know, it's really weird. Uh. I just looked
Speaker 1: up some fun facts about President Andrew Johnson. Apparently he
Speaker 1: escaped from indentured servitude. One would think someone who had
Speaker 1: escaped from indentured servitude would have a unique position to
Speaker 1: be anti slavery. He he was unique in many ways,
Speaker 1: so like he was the only Southern senator who states
Speaker 1: the seeded from the Union, who showed back up at
Speaker 1: his job, like all of them just laughing. The seed
Speaker 1: he was from Tennessee. He just showed back up and
Speaker 1: just kind of he wasn't Abraham Lincoln's first um VP.
Speaker 1: It was when leacoln won reelection, like, hey, this is
Speaker 1: our it was coming becoming pretty clear how the war
Speaker 1: was gonna go. This is our alive branch. We have
Speaker 1: this guy who is flip parties. He's a Republican now,
Speaker 1: but he's a Southerner. And then he Lincoln got assassinated,
Speaker 1: which was actually a three prong assassination tamp It was Lincoln, Johnson,
Speaker 1: and Seward they went after and Stewart survived. Lincoln obviously
Speaker 1: did not. Johnson became president and uh yeah six temper
Speaker 1: tyrannus and all that. Yeah, so funny story. Again, I
Speaker 1: think I mentioned this on the air, but there's a
Speaker 1: little town called Greenville, Tennessee that is very Andrew Johnson
Speaker 1: branded of a treehouse there that I sleep in. Sometimes
Speaker 1: true story. I'm not gonna explain it. And even if
Speaker 1: you go there and you ask people about Johnson, they
Speaker 1: will all say, uh yeah, I mean he was a president,
Speaker 1: and as we closed today's episode, we do have to
Speaker 1: have one last dubious mention. Uh that was very important
Speaker 1: to our guest research associate, Mr Max Williams. That is
Speaker 1: the most recent president, the president. How many how many
Speaker 1: pets did have Max? We talked about this from part one. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean he had Eric, he had I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: stays gonna kiss some people. Now, he did not have
Speaker 1: any pets. He was very adamant about not having a pet.
Speaker 1: It's funny is when writing the stuff I had nature
Speaker 1: to listen through the original episode and Mr No you
Speaker 1: made you noted that You're like, yeah, it's really where
Speaker 1: this guy dosn't have a pet. Maybe he maybe he'll
Speaker 1: get one eventually, because like like when I was doing
Speaker 1: the research, I was like, yeah, like you know, like
Speaker 1: like some other people didn't have pets. No, it really
Speaker 1: looks like every single of them in some sort of
Speaker 1: way had some sort of pet. Again, if only because
Speaker 1: of the tradition of it all. Yeah, right, It's like
Speaker 1: there's some really cute ones that I left out, like
Speaker 1: you know, H. W. Bush had his like bleep cocker
Speaker 1: spaniel and then when w became president, he had one
Speaker 1: of the puppies that his dad's cocker spaniel had had
Speaker 1: while he was a white house. Look, it's just cute,
Speaker 1: and it's a way to relate to them, to show that, like, hey,
Speaker 1: they're humans. The publicity stun sometimes absolutely at this point,
Speaker 1: want to thank you again, ridiculous historians for going on
Speaker 1: this journey with us. Lincoln avowed cat Daddy. This has
Speaker 1: been Presidential Pets Part two. Most importantly, folks, this is
Speaker 1: the time when I revealed my ulterior motive. Get the
Speaker 1: two ridiculous historians on Facebook and show us pictures of
Speaker 1: your pets. I love when we get to do this.
Speaker 1: Show us, yeah, listen, good ones out there for sure,
Speaker 1: and also shout out to the Presidential Pet Museum, which
Speaker 1: is the thing. Presumably most of these animals are there
Speaker 1: in taxidermy form I would hope preserved for future generations
Speaker 1: to enjoy. What's sales position on taxidermy. By the way,
Speaker 1: taxidermy of of beloved pets maccabre or or or totally on.
Speaker 1: It's hard to say goodbye to yesterday man Boy's memoir, right,
Speaker 1: especially if you're yesterday was the name of your beloved
Speaker 1: cocker span that'd be a good name for a dog. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It depends on whether canines uh fall
Speaker 1: under the theory of nominative determinism. You know, if you
Speaker 1: name a dog chomp, is it gonna bite someone? Well?
Speaker 1: And and and then it begs the question, do in fact
Speaker 1: all dogs go to heaven? Uh? And do all dogs go? Direct?
Speaker 1: Video and all dogs go to Heaven? Part two m
Speaker 1: And with this, with these weighty philosophical conversations, we are
Speaker 1: going to uh. We are going to wait to hear
Speaker 1: from you ridiculous historians. Will be back next week with
Speaker 1: an episode on Pringles that you uh that it's gonna
Speaker 1: surprise you. It's it's going really weird places. We're excited
Speaker 1: for you to hear it thinks as always to you
Speaker 1: for tuning in. Thanks to our super producer, Mr Max Williams,
Speaker 1: our composer, we have one, Mr Alex Williams. And thanks
Speaker 1: to let's see who else know who else? Who else?
Speaker 1: Oh you know, Christopher hasciodes Us, Jeff Code here in
Speaker 1: spirit elsewhere in the world doing great things. Our love
Speaker 1: to you, bo uh. Jonathan Strickland, as you mentioned him,
Speaker 1: I try not to It's okay because sometimes when you
Speaker 1: say if you say his name too loudly into a glass,
Speaker 1: darkly things happens. Sort of a candy man rules, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. I think we've passed the threshold
Speaker 1: for his appearance and UH, special thanks, one last special
Speaker 1: thanks to all of our fellow ridiculous historians who are
Speaker 1: out there volunteering with animal shelters, with animal rescue. UH.
Speaker 1: This is often a volunteer driven enterprise. It's a nonprofit UH,
Speaker 1: and it can be really really tough work. But from
Speaker 1: all of us to all of you, thanks for thanks
Speaker 1: for being the good folks. We'll see you next time, folks. Yeah.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.