Speaker 1: Oh man, Matt, yes, do you remember this one? This
Speaker 1: is this is one of our big fouries into geopolitics.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and it was, and one of our earliest
Speaker 1: into into the subject. Is this is when I really
Speaker 1: learned your depth of knowledge in in this field. And honestly,
Speaker 1: it terrified me knowing that this kind of thing is
Speaker 1: still happening. Uh, this great Game that we're gonna be
Speaker 1: talking about today, I mean, spoiler alert you probably already
Speaker 1: know this, but man, it's a weird world out there
Speaker 1: in geopolitics. Yeah, I agree, and first I I am flattered,
Speaker 1: but I don't I don't necessarily agree with you. There
Speaker 1: are there are a ton of experts in this field,
Speaker 1: and they also have a ton of disagreements. The Great
Speaker 1: Game is usually meant to refer to this law silent
Speaker 1: war across Central Asia between British and Russian forces. But
Speaker 1: the weirdest thing about it no spoilers, is that something
Speaker 1: very much like The Great Game continues in the modern
Speaker 1: day from UFOs two ghosts and government cover ups histories
Speaker 1: world with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello, everyone,
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show, the show that Never ends. Uh,
Speaker 1: my name is Matt, my name is bed And uh,
Speaker 1: we're back in the room. This uh scary dank, dark
Speaker 1: cave of room, and we're here to tell you stories
Speaker 1: because that's why you're here, right, Scary dark, dank stories. Yeah,
Speaker 1: dank old bedtime stories. Hopefully you're tucked in bed with
Speaker 1: your whatever product you use to listen to this. Maybe
Speaker 1: you're just pretending to listen to this right now, you're
Speaker 1: not actually listening to it. Maybe you're just channeling this.
Speaker 1: Maybe you can hear electromagnetic waves. Maybe you're currently astray
Speaker 1: projecting in this room right now and we just can't
Speaker 1: sense you, which we had talked about before. And as
Speaker 1: you know, if you're listening to the show, the US
Speaker 1: government did actually spend millions and millions of dollars researching
Speaker 1: this idea of astral projection, and the Soviet Union spent
Speaker 1: even more. Matt, it occurs to me that now, before
Speaker 1: we jump into this, we should tell people that you
Speaker 1: and I had a pretty interesting experience in this room.
Speaker 1: Earlier today we did we got to be guest hosts
Speaker 1: on a show called Stuff to Blow Your Mind. Because
Speaker 1: one of those hosts Julie is currently out of town,
Speaker 1: and uh, we have the privilege of speaking with Mr
Speaker 1: Robert lamb Or he's also known as Dr Anton and Jessup. Well,
Speaker 1: the there's a there's a asking resemblance between those two,
Speaker 1: but I believe he would argue they're very different people. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's probably correct. Dr Jessup certainly would. Uh. The thing
Speaker 1: that we talk about with Robert on that show, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, we'll leave it to you guys to check
Speaker 1: it out. We don't want to spoil it for you.
Speaker 1: But if you are a fan of this show, we
Speaker 1: believe that you will also enjoy stuff to blow your mind.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, if you aren't already a fan, yeah, you
Speaker 1: probably are. Let's be honest. There are a lot bigger
Speaker 1: than us on this audio thing. Oh yeah, nothing wrong
Speaker 1: with that though. I believe in cooperation not competition, which
Speaker 1: brings me into a series of questions. By way of segue,
Speaker 1: here for you, Matt, you're ready all right? Do you
Speaker 1: enjoy games? Yes? I enjoy all kinds of games. I
Speaker 1: like Vigia games, I like tabletop games, I like meta games,
Speaker 1: even like social game, sociological games. That's that's true. We
Speaker 1: went through a phase. There's a little behind the curtain
Speaker 1: stuff for all our listeners. Uh. You and I went
Speaker 1: through a phase where we pretty much studied body language
Speaker 1: to to the point of, um, it's the point of
Speaker 1: reading people fairly effectively, I would say. And I fought
Speaker 1: it for a long time. Do you Ben, this is
Speaker 1: still behind the curtain, don't don't look too hard. But
Speaker 1: Ben showed me a book. Uh, and I fought it
Speaker 1: really hard. I didn't want to read it. I thought
Speaker 1: it was evil. Oh my gosh, I forgot about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but then I ended up looking a little more into it,
Speaker 1: and it's it's pretty terrifying. It's one of those things
Speaker 1: you can't unknown. Yeah, yeah, it's true. But the reason
Speaker 1: that I asked you about games is because, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I love the fact that he said social games. But
Speaker 1: it leads me to my next question, which is, do
Speaker 1: you think that empires can coexist? Well? Oh, gosh, I
Speaker 1: guess it depends on how large you want your empire
Speaker 1: to be, and if your empire truly is an empire. Um,
Speaker 1: I guess if the continents are far enough away, sure,
Speaker 1: sure they can. Okay, if you have like one continent
Speaker 1: over here and there's there's one empire there, one continent
Speaker 1: way over here, separated by lots and lots and lots
Speaker 1: of seawater. Perhaps, Okay, so a buffer of some sort, yes, Okay,
Speaker 1: empires can't co exist together. I don't think so. Okay.
Speaker 1: I I see what you're saying. And the reason I
Speaker 1: asked about a game is because today's audio podcast comes
Speaker 1: to us from our earlier series on uh Soviet activity
Speaker 1: right in Central Asia. You know, all kinds of Soviet
Speaker 1: activity we've been covering lately. Yeah, everything from psychotronics to
Speaker 1: attempting to discover Shambala. Yeah, true story, that's so weird
Speaker 1: to me. Still, what we found when we were looking
Speaker 1: for Shambala, or looking for Soviet activity regarding Shambala, is
Speaker 1: that there were two camps of people there. There was
Speaker 1: one camp of what we can call true believers who
Speaker 1: really believe that there was Shambala or Shambala or whatever
Speaker 1: h somewhere north of India, somewhere in the steps, and
Speaker 1: that this land could hold keys to some sort of
Speaker 1: hidden technology. So it's kind of like the conspiracy theories
Speaker 1: regarding Atlantis or lam Area or other fallen Hyperborean type
Speaker 1: civil civilizations and then you've got people who believe Shambala
Speaker 1: is more of a philosophy or a state of mind,
Speaker 1: and they want to create a place where that state
Speaker 1: of mind can flourish, and additionally use it as a
Speaker 1: way of building support for communism and building support for
Speaker 1: the Soviet Empire anarchies, right at least for at least
Speaker 1: for Baron Roman von bug Stundberg. However, I found out
Speaker 1: there's more to that name. Yeah, that name is longer.
Speaker 1: I saw it when you made the video. Put the
Speaker 1: whole name in there. Uh yeah, there's a vill ham.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that wasn't even the whole name. I put
Speaker 1: as much as I could fill the bottom of the screen. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He was very um, very old blood aristocracy. So no
Speaker 1: wonder people, you no wonder he wanted to bring monarchies back.
Speaker 1: He would have been related to so many people. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: he would have been up there. It wasn't exactly altruism.
Speaker 1: So so what we found when we were looking at
Speaker 1: this is that we found the search for Chambala. This
Speaker 1: takes place in the twenties and the thirties, nine teens,
Speaker 1: twenties and thirties, but we stumbled across something much bigger.
Speaker 1: When we're looking at this part, it turns out that
Speaker 1: the Soviet search for this law civilization or this spiritual
Speaker 1: haven was just one strange chapter in a much longer
Speaker 1: story about something called the Great Game. And of course
Speaker 1: you're first question is you know, oh, they invented Tetris
Speaker 1: back then, if only, if only? Uh, No, this the
Speaker 1: Great Game is something different. It's the term here is
Speaker 1: often attributed to a guy named Arthur Connolly. Arthur worked
Speaker 1: as an intelligence officer for one of history's most ruthless
Speaker 1: and for time, most successful corporations. That would, of course
Speaker 1: be the British East India Company. Yes, a corporate intelligence officer.
Speaker 1: So he's the one who said so a great game. Yes,
Speaker 1: and they're this great game was played between primarily two
Speaker 1: uh empires, really two huge empires at the time. You're
Speaker 1: looking at Victorian era England and also the Czarist Russia
Speaker 1: at the time, and they're both vying for power across
Speaker 1: all of Asia. Yeah, and they're each is trying to
Speaker 1: establish hegemony over Tibet, Mongolia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, all the stans,
Speaker 1: all the stands, And we should take a second h.
Speaker 1: Hegemony is ultimately the control of a region or area
Speaker 1: that is beyond state level power. So the United States
Speaker 1: currently is the hedgemon of North America. You know, plays
Speaker 1: nice with a lot of the other countries, but ultimately
Speaker 1: decides when the buck goes and where the buck stops
Speaker 1: as to fall into a platitude. So at this point
Speaker 1: we have these two huge empires. England, the British Empire,
Speaker 1: has expanded all over the world by far. Their favorite
Speaker 1: thing that they have conquered is India. It is the
Speaker 1: crown Jewel, as it was called, of the British Empire.
Speaker 1: And they want to safeguard this Crown Jewel because, um,
Speaker 1: you know, England collection of islands, excuse me, the British Isles,
Speaker 1: collection of islands. And so this, this smaller nation in
Speaker 1: terms of land mass, had conquered a much larger area
Speaker 1: and had enormous geopolitical influence because of this. So they
Speaker 1: want to keep that peace in the pie. But Russia
Speaker 1: wants something else. Yeah, Russia is just trying to expand
Speaker 1: expanding its borders, is trying to acquire more and more
Speaker 1: resources and established trade routes to send those resources through.
Speaker 1: Um basically sent them all over Russia. And um, they
Speaker 1: really just want to maintain their influence over the region
Speaker 1: because you know, India isn't that far from their borders,
Speaker 1: right yea. So we've got yeah, exactly, We've got Russia expanding, um,
Speaker 1: trying to essentially annexed more nations or at least incorporate them.
Speaker 1: And we have England saying, well, how fast is Russia
Speaker 1: and growing here because we already called DIBs on India,
Speaker 1: which I know sounds cavalier, especially when we're talking about
Speaker 1: the deaths of literally millions of people, But these were
Speaker 1: the attitudes at the time. These governments, a lot of
Speaker 1: the people making the decisions, we have to remember, were monarchical,
Speaker 1: so they were removed from you know, kind of considering
Speaker 1: the common people of their own countries as people. Well, sure,
Speaker 1: and we we tend to forget sometimes that when you're
Speaker 1: in a palace or a boardroom, or just sitting in
Speaker 1: an ivory tower, an ivory tower somewhere looking at all
Speaker 1: of these ideas, you the best way to look at
Speaker 1: them is when make them very small. Make a small
Speaker 1: let's say, I don't know, table, wooden table. That's the
Speaker 1: size of West and that's the that's the size of
Speaker 1: the world. And you look at with little pieces. Okay,
Speaker 1: here's where the resources are, Here's where the cities are
Speaker 1: that we want to maintain this area, you can only
Speaker 1: see it from that high up. If you really want
Speaker 1: to control it, you have to see it from that
Speaker 1: high up. And this is the nature of the Great Game.
Speaker 1: The Great Game became popularized in a book by Ruggyard
Speaker 1: Kipling Uh. He wrote a book called Kim and Kim
Speaker 1: is about this British orphan who is orphaned in India
Speaker 1: and he eventually begins to have adventures as a spy
Speaker 1: working for the British Empire in the Great Game. And
Speaker 1: that would be of course, trying to counter expanding Russian
Speaker 1: influence there. The Great Game itself is generally seen as
Speaker 1: starting around eighteen thirteen when Russia and Persia signed something
Speaker 1: called either the Treaty Gullistan or the Russia Russo Persian
Speaker 1: Treaty um. And it did a couple of things that
Speaker 1: really set the set the stage of the game. And
Speaker 1: one of those was it gave Russia control of several
Speaker 1: key pieces of real estate, which would be Azerbaijan, Augustan,
Speaker 1: and basically eastern Georgia. Yeah, and that was a pretty
Speaker 1: nasty blow to England at that time, because they had
Speaker 1: some heavy influence in Persia. You know, they had advisors
Speaker 1: in the court and stuff. Um. And this expansion, which
Speaker 1: goes back to the original question I have for you
Speaker 1: about whether empires can coexist and if so, how Uh
Speaker 1: this question became increasingly important and you can actually measure
Speaker 1: on the ground how much more important this question became. Um.
Speaker 1: And it's roughly three thousand miles. Yeah. At one earlier point,
Speaker 1: the distance between the closest Russian and English empire outpost
Speaker 1: was about four thousand miles. Uh. In a very short
Speaker 1: amount of time, it got to as little as one
Speaker 1: thousand miles. Uh. The thing that happened was a real
Speaker 1: life secret war. So the interesting thing about this secret
Speaker 1: war is that it's not you're not dealing with massive battles.
Speaker 1: You're not. You're not dealing with armies that are ready
Speaker 1: to go to war with one another at any time.
Speaker 1: Well you are, but you're not seeing that happen. You're
Speaker 1: dealing with intrigue. You're dealing with literally secrets and espionage. Um.
Speaker 1: Basically in the dark. It's a war in the dark.
Speaker 1: I like that phrase. Yeah, we're talking about some of
Speaker 1: the same people that we mentioned in the video series, right,
Speaker 1: Barchenko and ror Rich. Rorrich especially was functioning as a
Speaker 1: spy often. That guy is fascinating, by the way, We
Speaker 1: need to do a whole series just on him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he impersonated the Dalai Lama. If you haven't seen our
Speaker 1: episode on this yet, please check out Soviet Search for
Speaker 1: Shamba lah Okay. So we have got English and Russian agents,
Speaker 1: as you said, Matt, fighting this war in the dark.
Speaker 1: They're traveling in disguises, monks and shamans and horse traders.
Speaker 1: And you know, keep in mind this is still kind
Speaker 1: of in the age of what would be known as
Speaker 1: Napoleonic warfare. Napole Leonic warfare is when again a very
Speaker 1: isolated person in power said, I should just line these
Speaker 1: guys up, and you know, get my buddy that I'm
Speaker 1: probably related to the line his guy his guys up,
Speaker 1: and we'll sit at the top of our mutual hills,
Speaker 1: and you know, see how many of them survive in them.
Speaker 1: And yeah, and at this time, of course, if we
Speaker 1: look at a little bit of the military history, you know,
Speaker 1: the the evolution of firearms also taking place, would ultimately
Speaker 1: mean that Napoleonic tactics were suicidal, but no matter what,
Speaker 1: even before then they were. They were very bloody, and
Speaker 1: people were avoiding an out and out war by trying
Speaker 1: to subtly garner influence. So the Russian Empires sent somebody
Speaker 1: to visit the Dalai Lama, and then the British team
Speaker 1: would send somebody to visit the amiror off Anastan and
Speaker 1: war lords and Mongolia and other leaders of Stan's you
Speaker 1: know e merits and stuff and and yeah, they would
Speaker 1: maintain contact openly with with Moscow and and Uhna with
Speaker 1: London as though everything's cool, guys, where everything's fine. They'll
Speaker 1: have a meeting. Yeah, yeah, we're gonna have a meeting.
Speaker 1: But as I'm having this meeting, buddy's over there and
Speaker 1: he's got the year of some warlord who's planning some
Speaker 1: bad things against you. And Russian and England would also,
Speaker 1: when it was necessary cooperate to stop mutual threats. So
Speaker 1: the biggest example of this is the cooperation between the
Speaker 1: British and the Russians during World War Two, which is
Speaker 1: weird because it makes you think, doesn't it that this
Speaker 1: game has been playing for quite a long time. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know, chess games can take a while, but Jesus, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what is omark God, that's over a hundred years,
Speaker 1: a hundred and thirty years. Yeah, So it's been going
Speaker 1: on for a while, and that led us to think
Speaker 1: about how the Great Game has molded the world in
Speaker 1: which we live today. So the Great Game has had
Speaker 1: effects on Afghanistan which were I mean they are they
Speaker 1: have been catastrophic. Um. And it's it's severely limited the
Speaker 1: possible development of Afghanistan because of the Separation Act that's occurred,
Speaker 1: the coagulation of of power inside that country. Yeah. Uh,
Speaker 1: and that that country was also used as a buffer
Speaker 1: state to because you know, it's between Russia and India,
Speaker 1: or it was at the time, and battles, if there
Speaker 1: ever was a battle between those two powers, that's where
Speaker 1: it's going to take place. And uh, those effects, of
Speaker 1: course were catastrophic. The other the Stans were also influenced, Kazakhstan, Ministan, Tajakhstan,
Speaker 1: Kurgis on was Pakistan as well, um, because they ultimately
Speaker 1: were quote unquote one by the Soviet Party about the
Speaker 1: Russian side, so they remained part of the U. S.
Speaker 1: S R. Um you know, they remained part of Russia
Speaker 1: effectively even after the revolution in nineteen seventeen, and when
Speaker 1: they were under this era of Soviet rule, they were
Speaker 1: still really important from a uh geopolitical stance because they
Speaker 1: they had these um massive resources. I think somebody checked
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong on this. I think it was.
Speaker 1: Bakistan was known as um one of the bread baskets
Speaker 1: of Russia. So they supplied the Soviet Union with with
Speaker 1: a lot of food and unfortunately, because the central planning,
Speaker 1: a lot of people starved while they were exporting food.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, that's insane in it it turns out that
Speaker 1: the resources that are acquired in these areas when you're
Speaker 1: in control of those areas, end up having a huge
Speaker 1: impact on what you're able to do that don't necessarily
Speaker 1: affect the bottom line of the empire, right because these
Speaker 1: are it's like having extra resources. So one great example
Speaker 1: is the Eurasian opium fields, and they basically gave England
Speaker 1: the means to pedal drugs to China um in what
Speaker 1: it ultimately became the Opium Wars, but it was basically
Speaker 1: an extra resource for them to get more money, right yeah,
Speaker 1: Because if you think about it, they're not growing opium
Speaker 1: in the British Isles. They're not. They're not, they'd be
Speaker 1: completely against it. Yeah, it's not in my backyard. Kind
Speaker 1: of right, kind of makes you think about current Afghanistan
Speaker 1: right where opium production has skyrocketed. Is that correct? Yeah,
Speaker 1: some of the same opium fields. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: in that is strange. Uh, the Opium Wars deserve a
Speaker 1: podcast all their own, But for now, this quick recap,
Speaker 1: just a high level look at the nature of what's
Speaker 1: going on, brings us to the big question of the day.
Speaker 1: When when do you think the Great Game stopped? Or
Speaker 1: do you think it stopped? Between those two powers specifically?
Speaker 1: I mean, how how could you ever prove that it stopped? Right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good question because it's so much of it
Speaker 1: was waged in a clandestine way and depended upon espionage,
Speaker 1: and you're you're still looking at two massive I mean,
Speaker 1: there's there are, there are large powers. I don't know
Speaker 1: if Russia is considered a superpower anymore. I believe they are.
Speaker 1: I've just read was reading an article about is Russia
Speaker 1: will will Russia become a superpower? Yeah? You probably heard
Speaker 1: some varying estmates is probably the most fair word to
Speaker 1: use here of Russia's ability. Um, Sometimes people will say
Speaker 1: that the only reason Russia's at the level it is
Speaker 1: in the U N. Security Council is because of World
Speaker 1: War Two, that it's just the legacy from that, or
Speaker 1: that it is a developing nation that's there because it
Speaker 1: has a strangle hold on gas, and often, weirdly enough,
Speaker 1: in the United States, uh, conservative politicians like to say
Speaker 1: that the United States should begin exporting natural gas to
Speaker 1: Europe as a way of kurt hailing Russia's influence. It
Speaker 1: is also fair to say that at this point, those
Speaker 1: guys are the nicest way you could say it is optimistic,
Speaker 1: is literally the nicest way. But yes, so, the idea
Speaker 1: of Russia being a superpower is something that is tremendously
Speaker 1: important to Russia's long term strategy right and could be
Speaker 1: threatening to other countries, but not just the United States.
Speaker 1: Because I think it's obvious, Matt, that you and I
Speaker 1: both believe the great game continues. I think it absolutely does.
Speaker 1: And perhaps just a few more players have joined. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: who would you who who would you say has joined
Speaker 1: the game? Well, the chessboard, Well, certainly the United States Um,
Speaker 1: certainly China. Um. Just if you look at some of
Speaker 1: the spying that goes on and now the known spying
Speaker 1: that the US continues has been and continues to write implement. Um.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, as we're as we're recording this. Angela Merkel,
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister of Germany right, was in the news
Speaker 1: for being rejected by the n s A when she asked, Hey,
Speaker 1: can you guys give me the stuff you stole from
Speaker 1: my cell phone? Yeah? Can I at least see the
Speaker 1: things the file on me? Yeah? I understand why they
Speaker 1: wouldn't do that, but stuff to look classy doing that.
Speaker 1: Going back to going back to this, Yeah, the too.
Speaker 1: Two of the big new players in the game are
Speaker 1: China and the United States. Now, for a time, China
Speaker 1: was not able to be a peer level regional power
Speaker 1: due to in fighting, due to um the tremendous influence
Speaker 1: of both the British and the Russian empires. Today, China
Speaker 1: is ascendant and one of its big concerns in Eurasia
Speaker 1: is fortifying its security in Western China and making sure
Speaker 1: that it has secure access to energy. So this this
Speaker 1: means petroleum from the Middle East and Central Asia, natural gas,
Speaker 1: any of those products. Interestingly enough, China is also the
Speaker 1: world leader in construction of some alternative energy, world leader
Speaker 1: in building solar. Yeah. Well, and solar is it. I mean,
Speaker 1: there is no question solar will be huge, And I
Speaker 1: don't know how you can ever stop solar power from
Speaker 1: becoming the next thing, just because it's once it passes
Speaker 1: that threshold of being able to make it cheaply enough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: then I mean, well it's over all. The other energies
Speaker 1: can go take a hike, man, because the sun is
Speaker 1: not going out. So that's interesting to say this. Now. Um,
Speaker 1: the big the new Anglo player in the Great Game is,
Speaker 1: of course, as you said, the United States. There's some
Speaker 1: strange similarities here because the United States, like the British
Speaker 1: Empire in the beginning of the Great Game, does not
Speaker 1: actually have sovereign territory. They're they're interested in establishing a
Speaker 1: hedgemonty hegeminy. Many people would argue, uh, for the purpose
Speaker 1: of collecting resources and also for the purpose of preventing
Speaker 1: other threats to that rule. Um, you know, the biggest
Speaker 1: one would be a lot of people think the biggest
Speaker 1: one would be either China and Russia. But if you
Speaker 1: look at the way they're playing the game. Iran is
Speaker 1: the one is the country in the target in in
Speaker 1: the in the scope sites. Yeah, they've got a really
Speaker 1: big friend in the Middle East that you know, we
Speaker 1: have a really big friend in the Middle East that
Speaker 1: we have to protect. UM is real, Iran is there,
Speaker 1: is certainly there the biggest they feel it. Iran is
Speaker 1: their biggest threat. So we'll not saying that it's making
Speaker 1: the US and necessarily do what it's doing, but it
Speaker 1: certainly helps. Now. I think, you know, I think that
Speaker 1: the United States is looking at Iran for a different reason,
Speaker 1: for a much more pragmatic reason. Know you know, you
Speaker 1: and I had already talked about this in an earlier show,
Speaker 1: and we're both fairly skeptical. I'm even dismissive of people
Speaker 1: or politicians at least who make arguments for wars based
Speaker 1: on ideology. It just doesn't cut it. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't believe it. I want to see some numbers, and
Speaker 1: I think there is a number play here in preventing
Speaker 1: a wrong. There's also that very interesting um conspiracy theory
Speaker 1: about petro dollars, right, and and that Petro dollar bring
Speaker 1: the back of the U S at least that's what
Speaker 1: I've been hearing of a financial hedge on hedgemonty, and
Speaker 1: we're saying the word too often. Now we know that,
Speaker 1: we know that the United States, like China, wants to
Speaker 1: secure access to reliable energy for itself, but also for
Speaker 1: another player in the game that we'll get to. Let's
Speaker 1: go to Russia, one of the oldest, longest players in
Speaker 1: the game, Matt. What does Russia want? Well, it definitely
Speaker 1: wants to re establish its influence over the rest of
Speaker 1: the area, um, not just inside Russia. And we can
Speaker 1: see that happening right now currently. Don't call it a
Speaker 1: come back, yeah, um so yeah, they're they're interested in expanding, um,
Speaker 1: revitalizing kind of the the old Russian Empire, the part
Speaker 1: I mean, not necessarily the Soviet Empire per se, but
Speaker 1: you know, regaining some of that. Give me back my stands, yeah,
Speaker 1: Uncle Sam. Right now, it's you know, the the US
Speaker 1: and Russia are at logger heads over the presence of
Speaker 1: US military bases in uh in some I think a Pakistan,
Speaker 1: maybe Kazakhstan as well, I can't remember uh and those
Speaker 1: are being used to support US operations in Afghanistan and
Speaker 1: additionally as building a possibility to wage war with Iran,
Speaker 1: which is unfortunately on the horizon the So that makes
Speaker 1: sense that Russia wants to gain back its influence and
Speaker 1: gain back control of the areas that it lost during
Speaker 1: the fall of the U. S. S R. And I
Speaker 1: would say it has I'm not an historian. I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: I don't study this stuff very often. It just would
Speaker 1: make sense that there are still resources, important resources in
Speaker 1: those areas, um, that they want to get back. Oh, yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I mean, like you said earlier, most of these things
Speaker 1: are resource based in some way. Um, there is a
Speaker 1: reason you go, you send an army into a place
Speaker 1: where you try and take over a land space, and
Speaker 1: it's not usually because of an ideological reason. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not because you like folk songs or whatever. I'm pardon
Speaker 1: me for sounding so dismissive speaking of cynicism. There is
Speaker 1: another very old player in this game, and it's a
Speaker 1: very old player that a lot of people forget to
Speaker 1: their detriment. And I don't blame me because it doesn't
Speaker 1: get reported on the news as often as it should.
Speaker 1: The corporation the the original reason that we even kind
Speaker 1: of learned about this because of that intelligence officer who
Speaker 1: was working for a corporation. Yeah. Absolutely, Sometimes we might
Speaker 1: forget that, Uh, energy companies and finance companies or those
Speaker 1: concerning the financial sector can wield enormous interest u enormous
Speaker 1: influence as well, and in some cases having some sort
Speaker 1: of influence is crucial to their survival. You know, we
Speaker 1: we forget often that, Um, the role of oil exploration
Speaker 1: played a big part in some of what the British
Speaker 1: Empire did when it divided different countries up you know,
Speaker 1: in the in the period leading up to the modern date. Uh,
Speaker 1: we forget sometimes how dependent other countries can become on
Speaker 1: loans from you know, private and semi public private sources
Speaker 1: like the I m F for the World Bank, and
Speaker 1: in some cases these organizations can provide tremendously necessary resources,
Speaker 1: you know, better roads, school, sanitation, all of these things
Speaker 1: that countries need to order in order to get a
Speaker 1: chance to develop. As long as the I m F
Speaker 1: or whoever gets their peace too, as Yeah, as long
Speaker 1: as the whatever agreements they make are something that they
Speaker 1: that they hold up to and that they are allowed
Speaker 1: to hold up to by anything else. Because what's interesting
Speaker 1: when we read about this is that many of the
Speaker 1: people in the situations here, especially historically, many of the
Speaker 1: people who were Eurasian elites, you know, llamas or uh
Speaker 1: in mirrors and stuff like that. These people learned a
Speaker 1: very careful balancing act, you know. So you would say
Speaker 1: one thing to the British to play them off the
Speaker 1: Russians in order to hopefully make your area of the
Speaker 1: world a little bit better or at least a little
Speaker 1: bit less dangerous. It's interesting now the world in which
Speaker 1: we live, where so much is open or at least
Speaker 1: able to be captured. Um. For everything from a cable
Speaker 1: that's sent from one country to another, one diplomat to another,
Speaker 1: I see interception. Yeah, there could be an interception and
Speaker 1: now it's open, just like what happened with those diplomatic
Speaker 1: cables that got leaked. Um. It shows you exactly what
Speaker 1: you're talking about. Where we're we're playing a game, well,
Speaker 1: all all countries are playing some kind of weird game
Speaker 1: to make everyone think that no, it's cool, man, we're good.
Speaker 1: Is it is? It sort of like that game where, um,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you listeners did this. When you
Speaker 1: were a kid, we had this game where we would
Speaker 1: play tag in a library, which you couldn't run because
Speaker 1: you were being watched by teachers. So there were a
Speaker 1: lot of people just power walking after each other until
Speaker 1: the eyes of the teachers were off them for a moment,
Speaker 1: at which point they made mad dashes. I ever did that, Well,
Speaker 1: we could try it in the office. I don't know
Speaker 1: who would who would care? But UH, this this is
Speaker 1: interesting because you know, we always like to do a
Speaker 1: little bit of further reading, a little bit of stuff
Speaker 1: to recommend this whole topic. While it might seem a
Speaker 1: little bit dry and removed from the average person's life,
Speaker 1: especially in the United States or in Europe. UM, the
Speaker 1: point of the matter is that people who are in
Speaker 1: charge of state level decisions, you know, those the wise
Speaker 1: old men and women who advise UH, the advertised leader,
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's a I don't know, CEO, prime minister,
Speaker 1: president or whatever. These Uh the intelligencia of International Affairs
Speaker 1: very much believes in this concept of a grand game
Speaker 1: and that UH, Eurasia is ultimately the big either melting pot,
Speaker 1: opportunity point or point of conflict in in the world
Speaker 1: going forward. And when I say advisors, I don't mean
Speaker 1: people that were working in the nineteen forties. I mean
Speaker 1: people who were still working much more recently, like Zabeg
Speaker 1: new Brazynski, who wrote a book called The Grand Chessboard
Speaker 1: where he argues the same thing any basically who says
Speaker 1: nothing has changed, People like Henry Kissinger, people like the
Speaker 1: advisors to putin uh pun himself. So when you get
Speaker 1: to that level, you have to have an understanding of
Speaker 1: the history or else you can't You're not allowed. I mean,
Speaker 1: you can't be here if you don't have a vast
Speaker 1: understanding of the history of what you are doing. And
Speaker 1: sometimes that history does get lost in ideology. Very true. Uh,
Speaker 1: But this goes back to our This goes back to
Speaker 1: our question because if you think about it, if you
Speaker 1: think back to the early days of the of the
Speaker 1: Great Game, we had, um, we had a corporate power
Speaker 1: working with a state power to achieve the British Empire.
Speaker 1: And you know, if we're being honest, state and corporate
Speaker 1: powers have always historically intermingled. You know. Um. The separation
Speaker 1: of Yeah, the separation of a corporation from a you know,
Speaker 1: a family or a monarchy as an official state power
Speaker 1: is a little more recent than we would like to believe.
Speaker 1: For me, it's of the way I visualize it, it's
Speaker 1: the corporate side, is the funding powers, the money powers
Speaker 1: to an extent, and then the army or the warrying
Speaker 1: power is with the state, at least the way I'm
Speaker 1: seeing it currently, And they have to because you know,
Speaker 1: somebody has all the money. Sometimes it's the monarch that has,
Speaker 1: you know, the treasure trove room, but usually it's the
Speaker 1: wealth of your nation. Um, which isn't always, not always
Speaker 1: controlled by the state power. Yeah, no, I know it
Speaker 1: sounds incredibly cynical to talk this way about this because
Speaker 1: one of the questions that would pop up would be,
Speaker 1: you know, ideally, why can these states not have their independence,
Speaker 1: why can they not be able to democratically elect their
Speaker 1: leaders in real elections on some kind of kangaroo court election,
Speaker 1: And why wouldn't they be able to pursue their own
Speaker 1: interests that would benefit them rather than a larger regional power. UM.
Speaker 1: I totally agree. I think they should be able to
Speaker 1: do that, But the point of the matter is that
Speaker 1: often they end up being client states or being proxy
Speaker 1: the scenes of proxy wars. I hope that this doesn't
Speaker 1: happen again, But it leads us to the question, Matt,
Speaker 1: do you think that empires can coexist. I don't know, dude.
Speaker 1: I feel as though one day there will be no
Speaker 1: such thing as and well there maybe there will be
Speaker 1: one empire. Who knows, Maybe it'll be death Star like
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be really intense, cloaked dudes that can
Speaker 1: wield some kind of supernatural power. I would be in,
Speaker 1: really your sacrifice democracy for superpower? Are you kidding? Well,
Speaker 1: if it feels like we have to head that way,
Speaker 1: is as as much as it pains me to say
Speaker 1: that it feels like a global power is inevitable or
Speaker 1: else you mean a single global power? Yeah, like a
Speaker 1: like a freaky empire, a freaky one empire thing. See,
Speaker 1: I think that could happen, but it couldn't be permanent. Well,
Speaker 1: I could see a um, I could see something like
Speaker 1: nine eight four's political situation existing where there are three
Speaker 1: huge states that have always been at war with each other,
Speaker 1: always been allied with one another. But if you, if
Speaker 1: you play the Great Game effectively, you could convince let's
Speaker 1: let's say they're there are three right, Uh, I'm just
Speaker 1: trapolating here, But if you're playing the Great Game effectively enough,
Speaker 1: then you could convince. If you're one number one. You
Speaker 1: could convince after defeating two and three kind of below
Speaker 1: board or through espionage or whatever you do it, you
Speaker 1: could convince the people who live in two and three
Speaker 1: that two and three still exist and everything's okay and
Speaker 1: nothing has changed, when really the power is with the
Speaker 1: with only one. So so it's simple just lie to
Speaker 1: billions of people and never get caught. Yeah, well, it
Speaker 1: takes you to Elvis Huxley's world, and when you combine
Speaker 1: in the Brave New World, then you start look getting
Speaker 1: close to what our world looks like, a brave New nine.
Speaker 1: That's kind of cool. Mann, Well what do you think then?
Speaker 1: I think, all right, this is gonna sound a little
Speaker 1: bit fringe. I'm sure the person much smarter than me
Speaker 1: has figured out this theory. This is just my two cents,
Speaker 1: entirely speculation. Okay. So in the beginning, we had we
Speaker 1: being humanit we had the tribe, and the tribe was
Speaker 1: something that happened due to survival. We found that it
Speaker 1: was in the beginning especially it was necessary to have
Speaker 1: other people to help you to survive. Right, So we
Speaker 1: said this precedent from the tribe arrived the religion and
Speaker 1: the religion said there is a reason for us existing
Speaker 1: other than just to survive here, and we are different
Speaker 1: to other people, and we or they deserve something good
Speaker 1: or bad. So the tribe started for survival. The religion
Speaker 1: gave a reason, and the state advanced a method. And
Speaker 1: the method of the state is that there are certain
Speaker 1: explicit rules that are pragmatic. We're not telling you necessarily
Speaker 1: what's going to happen when you die, or we're not
Speaker 1: telling you about the intangible spiritual things, but we are
Speaker 1: telling you that if you steal an elephant, you are
Speaker 1: going to jail, because that is not what makes society work.
Speaker 1: So let's let's put in these rules that allows something
Speaker 1: like a supertribe to exist, you know. So then we
Speaker 1: went from the state to the corporation. And what the
Speaker 1: corporation says is uh still kind of left open to question.
Speaker 1: But in my in my opinion, what will ultimately become
Speaker 1: the biggest player in the great game will be some
Speaker 1: sort of British East India thing, some sort of private
Speaker 1: corporation I could easily see in our lifetimes. There's the
Speaker 1: worst part. I could easily see in our lifetimes some
Speaker 1: sort of state or area of the world that is
Speaker 1: transparently and obviously controlled by a corporation. And I don't
Speaker 1: mean some sort of sticky corruption charge. Yeah, I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean like, uh, you know, Luxembourg presented by Google.
Speaker 1: I think it's just gonna be a Google stand or
Speaker 1: Google I mean you and and and here's the thing.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. Depending on what which corporation it is,
Speaker 1: or how it works out, it might be better than
Speaker 1: the alternative. It might actually be better to live in
Speaker 1: a Google stand. As terrible as that sounds. Now, we
Speaker 1: have to remember that the human race and and trying
Speaker 1: to work with itself, is this continual evolution. So I
Speaker 1: think that soon um. And when I say soon, I
Speaker 1: mean the grand scheme of things. Uh, the corporation, which
Speaker 1: would be the fourth step, will supersede the state. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but what comes after the corporation? Man, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I I just want to go to space. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be ansked with you. I just I want to go
Speaker 1: to space. I'm not going to sell my soul for ticket,
Speaker 1: and I don't really believe in too much of that anyway,
Speaker 1: But just in case I'm not going to sell it,
Speaker 1: you can metaphorically sell your soul? You've metaphor? Do you
Speaker 1: remember that Simpsons episode where Bart sold his soul and
Speaker 1: he couldn't fog the glass in the automatic door? Whatn'
Speaker 1: open for him? Man? That got to me? Functioned on soul?
Speaker 1: Isn't that interesting? Yeah? More than a sermon? That got
Speaker 1: to me? I thought those doors are convenient? What will
Speaker 1: I do? Oh? The Simpsons teaching teaching people like you
Speaker 1: and I how the world works and how morality works.
Speaker 1: And let's toss it to you listeners. We hope that
Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode, and we want to know what
Speaker 1: you think? Uh? What? What do you think will happen
Speaker 1: in these countries that we in the West here so
Speaker 1: little about? Who, if anyone, do you think will eventually
Speaker 1: control Eurasia? Uh? Will somebody win the Great Game? Here's
Speaker 1: a good one. Is it possible to win the Great Game?
Speaker 1: Or does it just continue? That's great? And be sure
Speaker 1: to to go on Facebook and give us a little message. Um,
Speaker 1: tell us what you think about this stuff. You can
Speaker 1: find us where Conspiracy Stuff. You can find us on Twitter.
Speaker 1: We're at conspiracy Stuff. Make sure you check out our
Speaker 1: old episode called The Long Deception, which talks about the
Speaker 1: Soviet Union and whether or not it actually collapsed. Really
Speaker 1: interesting stuff, and that's the end of this classic episode.
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