Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season to fifty three,
Speaker 1: episode one of dir das Guys Stay production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. This is a podcast where we take a
Speaker 1: deep dive into America's shared consciousness. And it is, of course, Tuesday,
Speaker 1: September six, Holy ship, Oh my gosh, we made it.
Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, and you know what that means. It's national
Speaker 1: Read a book day. Okay, read a damn book. Please
Speaker 1: don't just you know, just don't just say don't just
Speaker 1: read the spine of the book and be like, I
Speaker 1: read that the book. Please actually had that book recommended
Speaker 1: to me in an Instagram photo, and so I therefore
Speaker 1: read the title, which is half the battle, if not more.
Speaker 1: It's also reversed sixty nine day, right, it's nine. Hey,
Speaker 1: WHOA didn't think about that yet? Let him know? Why? Why?
Speaker 1: Why did ninety six not get any of the love?
Speaker 1: You know? Is it just because it makes us picture
Speaker 1: even older people? No? Nineties six? And I think it's
Speaker 1: like more Batman and Robbert. You're back to back, Okay,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, I guess that's like
Speaker 1: spokes to me the back of your back to back. Yeah,
Speaker 1: now that's a good point. Now, yeah, getting yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: be like when I'm picturing it. I've been sixty nine,
Speaker 1: all wrong all this time. Oh boy, all right, I've
Speaker 1: been ninety six. Well, anyways, my name's Jack O'Brien. A
Speaker 1: k on a dark desert highway, cool ranch in my hair.
Speaker 1: One smell of Gordita's rising up through the air. Up
Speaker 1: ahead in the distance, I saw a purple neon lights.
Speaker 1: My stomach hungry and my choices slim. I exited on
Speaker 1: the right. As I got to the doorway of the
Speaker 1: taco bell, I was thinking to myself, I could get
Speaker 1: seven tacos with hard shells. Then she asked me my
Speaker 1: order and how I would like to pay. All my
Speaker 1: choices found me worried for my Collin's mental state. Long one,
Speaker 1: Here comes the sorry, Here comes the choloup? Does that
Speaker 1: I ordered? Got chicken and steak? Got you here in
Speaker 1: steak all over my face, all over my face. I'm
Speaker 1: living it must look at all the food that I ordered,
Speaker 1: notcho cheesy fries and black beans and rice that is
Speaker 1: courtesy of Wopple House bringing the longy, but a goody. Damn.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm about to go on a road trip,
Speaker 1: and this felt extremely appropriate to me. Also, you know,
Speaker 1: when it's a first time guest, I like to just
Speaker 1: let him know how bizarre the show is, how weird. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and that I have serious pipes and karaoke night here.
Speaker 1: And I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my
Speaker 1: co host, Mr Miles Is Mr Miles Gray. You know what,
Speaker 1: Chris see, I'm a Gucci man. When you wrote that
Speaker 1: a k A, I read the last line like it
Speaker 1: was bon Jovi's dead or alive. So I'm gonna switch
Speaker 1: it up that same ak where it's I'm living. It
Speaker 1: must look at all the food I by nacho cheesey fries,
Speaker 1: jeesey fries and black beans and rap. Okay, so shout
Speaker 1: out to you again. I just took a new version
Speaker 1: on it. Invert its beautiful. Well, and then this is
Speaker 1: fun because now we get to introduce our incredibly impressive guest.
Speaker 1: Fantastic guests. Yes that a perfect intro is the position
Speaker 1: like none other on the Internet. A public defender with
Speaker 1: Legal Aid New York, a writer who you've read on
Speaker 1: Team Vogue, a commentator for the Long Prime Network, and
Speaker 1: a contributor to the Hill. Please welcome the brilliant and
Speaker 1: talented alia me all around welcome. First of all, I'm
Speaker 1: super impressed that you'll pronounced my name right and that
Speaker 1: y'all had them songs. Look, we try, we try, we try.
Speaker 1: How are you being how are you doing good? Good?
Speaker 1: I'm having a good day. Got paid today, beautiful, mean
Speaker 1: that the papers yesterday, and I feel rich. Tummor early.
Speaker 1: How's the weather? You're in New York? I'm guessing right, Yes,
Speaker 1: I am in New York. I'm in New York. It's
Speaker 1: it's sunny, but I am I'm a firm believer that
Speaker 1: sunniness is overrated. So listen, y'all didn't grow up in
Speaker 1: the Bahamas in the summer and the heat time with
Speaker 1: no a c on And you're trying me, refusing to
Speaker 1: turn it on, talking about catch the breeze. I have
Speaker 1: something right. How are you looking forward to? Like fall
Speaker 1: and winter? Yea, yeah, I love the fall. I love
Speaker 1: the fall. I think the fall is the best season
Speaker 1: and summer just has better. Pr right exactly, because look,
Speaker 1: nothing I'm wearing a coat is undefeated. That's how I
Speaker 1: feel like and I like Look, I grew up in
Speaker 1: the San Fernando Vallet, Hottest ship desert I grew up
Speaker 1: all people being like I love it here. I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: I would, I will, I will move to where snows.
Speaker 1: I don't give a funk. I like variation, and I
Speaker 1: like cold. It's not what it's always cut up to be.
Speaker 1: Heat is Heat is really the first time I really
Speaker 1: realized how much I truly hated heat was I was
Speaker 1: visiting a family island and the mohammads and listen. It
Speaker 1: was only then that I really realized, oh, we're really
Speaker 1: from my island. Like I was running for a tree,
Speaker 1: I felt like that ultate, I'm like, leave, shay. It
Speaker 1: helped me. We are not we are not meant. And
Speaker 1: then the sun the way is giving it up. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm telling you there's no what. I'm convinced nobody. You
Speaker 1: don't need to talk to the scientists anymore. I am
Speaker 1: telling you that used to be a whole that is none.
Speaker 1: I could feel the sun directly, no filter, beating down
Speaker 1: on me directly. It's responsible to be outside in the sun. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the summer is so brutal, only getting more brutal. We
Speaker 1: talked on a recent episode about the beach is you know,
Speaker 1: the beach is great, but only as relief from the
Speaker 1: extremely uncomfortable summer. You know, it's like, it's not like
Speaker 1: I don't know, the fall is so great. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: And this might just be the fact that it's the
Speaker 1: very end of summer speaking and I'm sweating through my
Speaker 1: shirt as we speak. But yeah, and I'm about to
Speaker 1: drive through Death Valley and it's gonna be bad. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but on the north face, let me see a bubble
Speaker 1: boost just out there, like, let me the last thing
Speaker 1: you ever do. Yeah, alright, align me. We're gonna get
Speaker 1: to know you a little bit better in a moment. First,
Speaker 1: we're gonna tell our listeners a couple of the things
Speaker 1: we're talking about. We're gonna talk about the Safer American
Speaker 1: Plan and just the way the media regurgitates talking points
Speaker 1: that more cops equals safety. And we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about copaganda and all it's not in all its forms,
Speaker 1: but in some of its more popular forms, which alliw
Speaker 1: ME you have written about at length and brilliantly. So
Speaker 1: all of that plenty more. But first we do like
Speaker 1: to ask our guests, what is something from your search
Speaker 1: history that is revealing that who you are or what
Speaker 1: you're up to well, in my search history right now,
Speaker 1: I think it's it's foolishness. I've been arguing my friends
Speaker 1: that you or is black from way to Pool, and
Speaker 1: so that is That's what I'm on right now. The
Speaker 1: cartoon characters are actually black. Wait I liked it. Wait, okay,
Speaker 1: now that I'm thinking about this, does he live in
Speaker 1: the forest with them? No? No, he does not live
Speaker 1: in a hundred acre woods. I'm glad. I'm glad you asked.
Speaker 1: He lives on the outskirts by himself. Yes, I don't
Speaker 1: know if you have noticed. And you just look at
Speaker 1: the ship infrastructure of ears, a little snoopy house versus
Speaker 1: everybody's full home and they got a lad right, everybody
Speaker 1: else lives in a hundred acre woods. They don't even
Speaker 1: see or till the end of the episode. They spend
Speaker 1: all day fraulicking amongst the hundred acre woods. And after
Speaker 1: they've done doing everything they do with eating potty and
Speaker 1: going by rabbit, and they're like, who you's got off
Speaker 1: my shift on the sanitation department talking about listening them
Speaker 1: all day? They're like, he's depressed, but no one ask why.
Speaker 1: Nobody asked, like or you get really angry really easy. People. Listen.
Speaker 1: I knew it was up as a child, me and
Speaker 1: my ground me Pep immediately was black. I remember they
Speaker 1: came to him at the end of the episode be like,
Speaker 1: hold on, you know it's the it's this the Adventures
Speaker 1: of Winnie the Pool when everybody else do adventures but
Speaker 1: not the yard. Yeah. Immediately, wife like, wife like, that's
Speaker 1: why everybody lives in a hundred acre was and he
Speaker 1: lives there? Where does Christopher Robin live? Ah, right in
Speaker 1: the bur with them? You know, it's not right, And
Speaker 1: he's just kind of he's like, Yo, this is my backyard. Yeah, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: white Christopher Robin and all the rest of them living
Speaker 1: in the same community. M there's the new horror movie
Speaker 1: Winnie the Pool Blood First, yeah, you were dead already,
Speaker 1: my own song, my side. And then apparently they like
Speaker 1: the implied backstories that Winnie the Pool and piglet ate him.
Speaker 1: Is that is that? Did I make that up? They
Speaker 1: marked him in some way? All I know is sorry,
Speaker 1: horror movie black person's guys, First, we need to put
Speaker 1: horror movie starts up with you're already gone saying or
Speaker 1: it's or it's like the magical donkey man, you're to like,
Speaker 1: tell us of your ways. They got my man's out
Speaker 1: of there because he's a brother. All right, shout out
Speaker 1: your what's up? What's up? Do you think is overrated?
Speaker 1: The Notebook? Okay? The movie? Then you really no one
Speaker 1: has dragged you in your life. Seeing every person that
Speaker 1: was shaming me for watching it was a white woman
Speaker 1: and listen and they loved them some notebook. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: what what about this trauma filmed movie is doing it
Speaker 1: for you? Like I don't. It's a it's a sad film.
Speaker 1: It's honestly, the whole movie is a cry for help
Speaker 1: for Ryan Gosson's character and why no one ever in
Speaker 1: his whole life, no one ever saw to teach him
Speaker 1: that he was valuable, Like your life don't have to
Speaker 1: all about this lady like yo, you spend summertime with
Speaker 1: this lady one time and not your whole like it's
Speaker 1: about dying the whole like you never heard but no
Speaker 1: interest in hands, just trying to make her dreams come through,
Speaker 1: sitting around waiting fun to come like and then what
Speaker 1: happens The woman spends he spend to someone with this
Speaker 1: woman falls in love with this woman. He gotta go
Speaker 1: to war because he's poor. First of all, he spends
Speaker 1: the whole first and half a movie. You'll either Jack,
Speaker 1: what's happening? I don't know. Okay, dating, they gotta they
Speaker 1: gotta pull it together. Yea, listen, this is this is
Speaker 1: what happens, right, not the not the love versus. Let
Speaker 1: me tell you what happens. So Ryan Gosling is dating
Speaker 1: this woman. They're just summer. They're young teenagers. She is
Speaker 1: a rich white lady. He is a poor white man.
Speaker 1: Her rich family and having that. So then he goes
Speaker 1: off to war and he's said in all these letters,
Speaker 1: rich families like brules in the trash, like he died,
Speaker 1: really died. He is dead. He died in the war.
Speaker 1: And she's like, oh, feel like that sometimes, and she
Speaker 1: fully goes and gets her a rich man and she's
Speaker 1: kicking it chilling. But then he comes back from the
Speaker 1: war to you with a man, and he's like, uh huh,
Speaker 1: I should go and build her dream house. That'll do it.
Speaker 1: So he goes, yes, yes, he does, Yeah, he builds.
Speaker 1: He builds the dream home this lady talked about that summer, right,
Speaker 1: goes builds it. Eventually she finds out she sees a
Speaker 1: picture of him in the newspaper and she's like, oh, ship,
Speaker 1: he ain't dead. Like she's not, like, oe, he's not dead.
Speaker 1: Love my life. Let me get my man's nah. Then
Speaker 1: he comes to like, oh, you know, I love you
Speaker 1: and whatnot, and she's like yeah, she's still not with it.
Speaker 1: Then they have sex and she's like that was cool,
Speaker 1: but I do got to me a man. So she
Speaker 1: goes back to a rich Then after a little bit
Speaker 1: she's like, okay, okay, I'll be with you, brokey, I'll
Speaker 1: be with you. I'll be with you. So then they
Speaker 1: got married and then later in the old age, she
Speaker 1: gets Alzheimer's. Remember, yeah, she does, no shot she does.
Speaker 1: Now she don't even remember him. So now they go
Speaker 1: to the Ohld Folks Home and he dies with her.
Speaker 1: He like has like times that I would somehow his
Speaker 1: love gave him a heart attack at the right time
Speaker 1: with her saying to die with her because he can't
Speaker 1: live life without Shorty. That's a film that is a
Speaker 1: story about trauma therapy. That is actually that is an
Speaker 1: indictment on poverty, because if he had health insurance. From
Speaker 1: the beginning of the movie, he would have started through
Speaker 1: that break up in the appropriate way. He would have
Speaker 1: talked to the therapist and he would have wrapped that up.
Speaker 1: But instead I'm watching I'm like, oh my god, oh
Speaker 1: my god, and all the white ladies are like that's
Speaker 1: my feel much ever scene, and I'm like, is it,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, no, that's terrible. I look at it. That
Speaker 1: film he came out in June or two thousand four,
Speaker 1: so that's the summer of my freshman year of college.
Speaker 1: And this is me in the process of rejecting everything
Speaker 1: I thought. I like that was mainstream because like high school,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, man, funk all this ship. I'll be
Speaker 1: consuming Like that was kind of my mindset. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I never listened to the fucking pop top four fucking notebook,
Speaker 1: fuck out of here. So I had a very like contrarian,
Speaker 1: angry guy mindset back then, which is why I like,
Speaker 1: to this day, I think part of me was like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not that person. Then I do not
Speaker 1: engage with the notebook. I don't even know what my
Speaker 1: excuse was, because I was a young girl and I
Speaker 1: loved all things. But I watched this and I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm not feeling the love. I'm like, not your second
Speaker 1: pick your whole life. And then she forgets you. Now
Speaker 1: you dad, that's it, that's the whole life. No roll
Speaker 1: of a minute, We're not gonna start this life thing over. Terrible. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and again, just good to indoctrinate people with that idea.
Speaker 1: It's like, look, motherfucker, are you gonna be treated like
Speaker 1: they don't want you. You're going to be second best,
Speaker 1: You're gonna die and they're gonna forget about you. And
Speaker 1: that's beautiful, and that's beautiful, and they they loved it.
Speaker 1: Listen ruin the generation. Yeah, that's yeah. That I I
Speaker 1: believe that's called codependency. That's not not Yeah. Wow, I
Speaker 1: did not know that was the plot of that. I
Speaker 1: just new the last part because I'm like, well, what
Speaker 1: the fund is? I remember always asking me, like what
Speaker 1: the fund is? The notebook? Though, like why is it
Speaker 1: called the notebook? They're like, because he's they don't remember
Speaker 1: ship and he has to read the notebook to her,
Speaker 1: And I was like, which is terrible. That's also why
Speaker 1: fifty First Dates isn't terrible? Is that I don't know
Speaker 1: why people love that either. Yes, I saw First Dates
Speaker 1: and that is weird at the end, like she feels
Speaker 1: it seems like she's like a captive, Like it's so strange. No,
Speaker 1: you can't go like you have to every day. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna read you're gonna do this whole thing. I have
Speaker 1: you in a boat. I'm pretty sure they're like on
Speaker 1: a boat doing this. It is terrible. I couldn't believe it,
Speaker 1: Like why is this just dramatic film? Just horror movies?
Speaker 1: That was like she gets into an accident, she forgets everything,
Speaker 1: and now he's gonna make her do groundhogs day every day,
Speaker 1: Like you don't even have enough time in the day
Speaker 1: to convince her she loves him. It takes twenty four
Speaker 1: hours just to remind her, all right, like with me,
Speaker 1: and then she's pregnant at one point. So now you
Speaker 1: in presill. I feel like every morning is chichi chi chill,
Speaker 1: Like she's like, what's on and watch this motherfucking tape.
Speaker 1: You gotta send alarm for like an hour before her
Speaker 1: so it could be up and ready to get it
Speaker 1: to Like yeah, right, exactly, Okay, you're strapped in. I
Speaker 1: know you are restrained right now, but this is for
Speaker 1: your own safety and that of the child. She's like, what,
Speaker 1: well you allow some we allowed some sick movies and
Speaker 1: shows to like really get away and we're just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: people like this is real cute. I was like, well,
Speaker 1: they love each other in general. It's say how much
Speaker 1: we have amnesia as a trope in media in general,
Speaker 1: like memory loss because the ain't cute. I don't get it,
Speaker 1: but we keep doing it. But it's not cute at all. No.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, I remember, you're dealing with my own family,
Speaker 1: you know, like dementia, Alzheimer's, and that ship is the
Speaker 1: last thing is like it's so fun to look at
Speaker 1: my grandmother who's like, who are you? Yeah, trying to
Speaker 1: show her pictures. She's like that ain't me And I'm like,
Speaker 1: that is not that's not a version. Where then I
Speaker 1: go to like a quirky like island cafe later and
Speaker 1: I'm like, man, I had a rough one today, right
Speaker 1: my Mazda leaving the convalescent home, like mortality weeping, just
Speaker 1: the most tragic thing. Yeah, what if something you think
Speaker 1: is underrated? Courage the Cowardly Dog. Okay, yeah, so like
Speaker 1: please tell me I'll watch Courage too. No, I know
Speaker 1: about Courage the cowardly dog. But I was not watching Uh,
Speaker 1: I was not watching it in It's Heyday, and I
Speaker 1: hate I hate how your childhood went for you, and
Speaker 1: I want more from me. Oh, thank you, thank you,
Speaker 1: Like there's there's just no reason why I was he
Speaker 1: well's my point, courage. Courage is the most underrated. Like
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, the way SpongeBob is. I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean, nothing nothing touching SpongeBob obvious, but courage should
Speaker 1: be talked about more. We should be getting more couragebub
Speaker 1: culture references and my man don't get no love. So
Speaker 1: it's courage for me. It came out of so okay,
Speaker 1: So when this show came out, like in It's hey Day,
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, eighth junior high high school. So
Speaker 1: I because I'm constantly putting myself in that year, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I know why I wasn't watching this
Speaker 1: because at this point I was like trying to be like, yo,
Speaker 1: I'm watching fucking Tarantino. I'm that's what you were watching. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why I'm so maladjusted as a judging my GRADEO
Speaker 1: was watching dragon Ball is the inappropriate things for cool people.
Speaker 1: I went up you growing up have Japanese. I was
Speaker 1: watching Dragon and ball Z when I was like a kid.
Speaker 1: So when that ship came to the U S, I
Speaker 1: was like, I've been off this ship and you're talking
Speaker 1: about them on now. Okay, you got me there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's a little I have a I'm in a
Speaker 1: weird spot as like a black and Japanese American were
Speaker 1: like part of me is like, what's this white, black
Speaker 1: and Japanese American pop. I'm like, just I'm in my
Speaker 1: media mind. I had like I was contested. I had
Speaker 1: many different forces at work with what I thought I
Speaker 1: should or should not be watching at that. Eh. But
Speaker 1: then you watch Boondogs. Boondogs is also yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm throwing bon knocks and cardage and cowardly Dog. That's
Speaker 1: my final answer. Wait, so what's so good? Okay tell me.
Speaker 1: I know, like when I look at the art of Courage,
Speaker 1: I know that's courage, but I've never been like seen
Speaker 1: a whole episode and like, oh this is why people,
Speaker 1: I mean encourage, it was just a realist mollfu alive.
Speaker 1: I mean that's okay, that's just the realty right as well?
Speaker 1: They call him courage The cowardly dog, but was a
Speaker 1: ship cowardly about him. Okay, Courage was out here, living
Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere, fighting of real fucking monsters
Speaker 1: every day to save Muriel's ask and Murray. So he
Speaker 1: lived with these two old people, his owners, Muriel and Eustace.
Speaker 1: Eustace as a hater like I hated Deepen and soul
Speaker 1: like god like when he was thinking, I hate that
Speaker 1: you put Ustss on earth because that's what Ustance is
Speaker 1: there to do, is they hate on Courage and cause
Speaker 1: the monster to kill them all. And Muriel is very stupid,
Speaker 1: like fully just a dodal burn, but Courage loves us,
Speaker 1: but they can understand him. The monsters be coming right
Speaker 1: to the door saying, happy monsters, we had to do
Speaker 1: monster ship today, and they'd be like, oh, Courage, get
Speaker 1: him some coffee like Courrage shop and now full monster
Speaker 1: ship whole episode for the Courage got to save them
Speaker 1: and the animation is amazing. But yeah, Current just just
Speaker 1: that guy. So the thing I was doing because I'm
Speaker 1: old as fuck, the like I didn't, I didn't watch.
Speaker 1: I was, you know, I think nineteen twenty two when
Speaker 1: when this came out. But I did, like edit an
Speaker 1: article about like a fan theory about Courage the Cowardly Dog,
Speaker 1: and the fan is that, like the monsters are just
Speaker 1: people from a dog's point of view, and like the
Speaker 1: whole thing is just like a really accurate depiction of
Speaker 1: what reality looks like from a dog's point of view,
Speaker 1: and like like one of the things is like a
Speaker 1: is courage like have a like terrifying interaction with a
Speaker 1: vacuum at one point. Maybe maybe, but that me and
Speaker 1: that person there who made that fan three, we might
Speaker 1: have to talk because I mean, I believe like adding
Speaker 1: Addie fan theories right that Darren Purgatory, Like that's what
Speaker 1: happened with the kids, seeing the kids are dead, that's
Speaker 1: why the parents will show up. Yeah, yeah, I'm all
Speaker 1: for I believe it. But Courage, boy, if you'll see
Speaker 1: some of these demons and people coming from space and whatnot,
Speaker 1: and people don't get Mrked, there is like a demon
Speaker 1: cat that if you ever see the episode where Muriel's Miles.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, I'm gonna sending you all a link
Speaker 1: to to Courage after this, and we're gonna revisit it
Speaker 1: because I'm I don't think so. I mean, i want
Speaker 1: to hear it, like, I'm open to the theory, but
Speaker 1: I definitely think those are real monsters fucking life up
Speaker 1: a courage every every every day. I wanted to kill
Speaker 1: murray in them, especially because they live in like the
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere, Like that's that's and I need song
Speaker 1: top tore. It says that the theory of them being
Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere is that the dog a
Speaker 1: dog's awareness of like have you ever heard that story
Speaker 1: Like someone opens the fence and they're like, oh, the
Speaker 1: there's another yard behind there, and it's like, no, there's
Speaker 1: like yards because the dog is like only aware of
Speaker 1: like what's happening inside their yard essentially, and so they
Speaker 1: think it's in the middle of nowhere. But it's actually
Speaker 1: just like you see how establishment gas like encourage. You
Speaker 1: see that, You see that, you see courage finally gets
Speaker 1: a story out and now look what they want to do.
Speaker 1: He's unwell, they are courage. That That's what I'm not
Speaker 1: talked up about. It is that it's like it makes
Speaker 1: it makes you realize like, oh, and being a dog
Speaker 1: in a humans household would be fucking terrifying. You think dogs,
Speaker 1: you know, dogs see him so so that's the thing. Though,
Speaker 1: dogs do be seems so happy is opposed to like
Speaker 1: my cat, like like he's happy. But I know he's
Speaker 1: like a person. He makes his own choices, like if
Speaker 1: my cat kicks sit with me, I know it because
Speaker 1: he wants to, because he'll definitely say no. But dogs
Speaker 1: be here they do. Maybe maybe dogs are oppressed. Maybe
Speaker 1: they feel like this is what I gotta do in
Speaker 1: order to get my meals and go, like, you know,
Speaker 1: they might just be oppressed. You you're correct, I am
Speaker 1: prepared to think about that. Courage definitely is m Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna yeah, send those links now, you gotta become
Speaker 1: a fan, Miles. That that money you about courage to
Speaker 1: keep reading first, Yeah for sure. All right, let's take
Speaker 1: a quick break. We'll come back. We'll talk about the
Speaker 1: Safer American plan, and we're back and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: in between Dark Biden Dark Brandon appearances last week that
Speaker 1: everybody was meming up, Biden addressed it seemed like he
Speaker 1: was addressing like a police union or something, because he
Speaker 1: was like addressing them as like you guys, we expect
Speaker 1: you guys do everything. So he announced his plan to
Speaker 1: deal with crime, and he said the answer is not
Speaker 1: to defund the police. It's fund the police. Jack. We
Speaker 1: expect him to do everything to protect us, to be psychologist,
Speaker 1: to be sociologists. He's really making the case for the fund. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: that's what's so great. He went from it's fun to
Speaker 1: the like, this is why we should fund the police,
Speaker 1: and then gave the examples of why we should defund
Speaker 1: the police, why everything else is funded because we're giving
Speaker 1: all the money to the police. Yeah, exactly, the we
Speaker 1: fund the police instead of mental health and like any
Speaker 1: resource that doesn't involve like armed people, right, And it's
Speaker 1: a major problem, right, And in part to them, the
Speaker 1: police aren't adequately trained to do the things that you're
Speaker 1: already paying them billions of dollars to do. So I
Speaker 1: don't know why we would leave it to them to
Speaker 1: do all these other areas that we have actual experts
Speaker 1: and trained professionals to do it logical, I like how
Speaker 1: to even evokes psychologists and sociologists. And those are the
Speaker 1: motherfucker's that are ignoring, right exactly, those are they're actually
Speaker 1: defunding while they continue to raise the money they're giving
Speaker 1: to the police. They're like, godly, what's going on with that, Huh,
Speaker 1: we should be funding you guys, expect you to the
Speaker 1: problems that we ignore because they go against our conventional
Speaker 1: conventional And it's not like people aren't those are literally
Speaker 1: the arguments people are making, right, put money, gave money
Speaker 1: to these social services and all these different other things
Speaker 1: that the police aren't. The people responding to mental health checks,
Speaker 1: people aren't. Police aren't responding, aren't police don't have to
Speaker 1: respond to traffic violations and these different things, and theed
Speaker 1: to these results in the police and there's are like
Speaker 1: absolutely not absolutely absolutely not. Don't you there, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: think of it. Yeah, And it's anomalous, Like what we do.
Speaker 1: The amount of funding that we give to the police
Speaker 1: in the United States is historically anomalous. Is the most
Speaker 1: any civilization has ever like used policing and like funded policing.
Speaker 1: And so any problem that people are like, well, our
Speaker 1: problem is we're not funding the police enough is no,
Speaker 1: Like this is if if policing was the answer, then
Speaker 1: the US would be the safest place and exactly and
Speaker 1: that's the quite frankly, that's the simple truth. They don't
Speaker 1: want to acknowledge, right, If policing in public safety is synonymous,
Speaker 1: and why why are these not the safest places? And
Speaker 1: constantly the places that are giving more and more more
Speaker 1: money to police are also the same people whose media
Speaker 1: is constantly committed to this whole crime wave. Crime is up.
Speaker 1: All of this is the next thing that's New York
Speaker 1: is a is a prime example of a place that
Speaker 1: presents it like it sounds like it's it's progressive utopia,
Speaker 1: and we give literally not nuh ten point four it
Speaker 1: was ten point four billion dollars to them, might be
Speaker 1: d be raised it They just got two hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty more a billion dollars even though they cut from education,
Speaker 1: they cut from the parks, they cut from housing, they
Speaker 1: cut everywhere else, But and yp D more money. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: what's happened? They continue to say the Post, you let
Speaker 1: the Post sell it. Prime is crime is constantly raising.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. But and YPD has never defunded. They've
Speaker 1: gotten more money. Everything else is defunded. We see evictions up, education,
Speaker 1: all kind of housing issues, homelessness is spiked, and it's like,
Speaker 1: why is that just complete? That's what I love is this.
Speaker 1: There's this feigned ignorance that politicians and media do with stuff.
Speaker 1: It's like, Oh, conveniently, you see all these eviction moratoriums
Speaker 1: and lifted, You're a victim. People seven in the same breafter,
Speaker 1: like the problem that is homelessness, Where is this coming from? Right? Oh,
Speaker 1: it couldn't have anything to do with the pandemic. Just
Speaker 1: we just had where businesses were closed, y'all, Like y'all
Speaker 1: lifted eviction moratoriums, y'all have the jails from them, Like
Speaker 1: it's not a coincidence. I it's interesting, interesting, especially with
Speaker 1: homelessness and all the big cities. It's like it's like
Speaker 1: New York City, New York City, l A. I think
Speaker 1: those are two prime places that talk about homelessness like
Speaker 1: it's their job to do so. They're two of the
Speaker 1: most expensive cities in the world, not even just the
Speaker 1: country in the world. People aren't homeless because they want
Speaker 1: to be homeless home because so they can't afford they
Speaker 1: cannot afford to live. That that's just the reality of it.
Speaker 1: And instead I were talking about, you know, livable wages
Speaker 1: or what rent is actually increased to. You know, New
Speaker 1: York City is constantly talking about how our homelessness is increased,
Speaker 1: but our rent is also increased. The average costs and
Speaker 1: right right now New York City is over four thousand
Speaker 1: dollars a month. Man, it's absurd. And I think the
Speaker 1: problem too is so many people are out of touch
Speaker 1: and don't have honest conversations about it. And I think
Speaker 1: it's because they also don't really know, Like I am
Speaker 1: a public defender, so I yeah, yeah, not only do
Speaker 1: I represent poor people, but I'm also not well paid myself,
Speaker 1: and my apartment my apartment, and I just got this
Speaker 1: through New York City's affordable housing right, affordable housing in
Speaker 1: the one, the housing lottery. My apartment is right, like
Speaker 1: if you get a worm of that is what average person,
Speaker 1: the people who really really need, and that's as a lawyer,
Speaker 1: that's someone who was how's the average person gonna afford that?
Speaker 1: And also the average person can't even qualified for it
Speaker 1: because the amount of hoops they make you jump through
Speaker 1: to secure the apartments. And how it works is so
Speaker 1: they like in New York City, the affordable housing lottery
Speaker 1: works like this, they let you know, so gentrification. They
Speaker 1: buy these buildings up in these neighbors like I live
Speaker 1: in Flatbush in Brooklyn, and then they charged the whole
Speaker 1: building is priced that like six times more than what
Speaker 1: the rest of the neighborhood is. So then you price
Speaker 1: out the people already live in the neighborhood and they
Speaker 1: can't get there. And then what they'll do is they'll
Speaker 1: take like a couple of units in the building like
Speaker 1: mine and say this is affordable, but it's actually just
Speaker 1: four times lass than the rest of the neighborhood as
Speaker 1: opposed to six exactly. And so you get people who
Speaker 1: are still the people who are most in need. They're
Speaker 1: only like, like I mean, the smallest handful of places
Speaker 1: that they can actually afford in the affordable lottery. So
Speaker 1: it's just a mythic. The reality of these homelessness, poverty,
Speaker 1: all these things are a direct response to the ways
Speaker 1: that our government is already failing these people in their communities.
Speaker 1: And that's just the conversations they don't want to have.
Speaker 1: And they pretend there's no people who say to address
Speaker 1: it that way. Don't care about crying or you you
Speaker 1: you know, you want lawlessness, so you want anarchy and
Speaker 1: that's not the case. Yeah. So in response to that
Speaker 1: Biden speech, CBS News just this is this is how
Speaker 1: they tweeted it. The Safer American plan aimed at reducing
Speaker 1: gun crime is based on a quote simple notion, says
Speaker 1: President Biden. The answer is not to defund the police.
Speaker 1: It's fund to the police. He adds, we expect them
Speaker 1: to do everything to protect us, to be psychologists, to
Speaker 1: be sociologists. But like that, nothing else that. So they're
Speaker 1: just pasting his talking points into a tweet and putting
Speaker 1: it out there. And that's how our media does, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's how our literally does. It regurgitates like politicians and
Speaker 1: especially police and narratives as pure fact. There is no
Speaker 1: questioning of it. Just this is what the said. So
Speaker 1: this is this is the factual matter of it. And
Speaker 1: the problem is the average person is a consumer, not
Speaker 1: and not even as a negative to them, right, the
Speaker 1: average the average person is busy dealing with their own
Speaker 1: own life in the trials and tribulations, and they're not
Speaker 1: being you know, health to it. So they read information
Speaker 1: and they say, all right, I don't have time to
Speaker 1: research this or assume there's more to it. So if
Speaker 1: I'm constantly fed that, like, you know, police are a necessity.
Speaker 1: You know, police are the necessity. You know, they're the
Speaker 1: people who find themselves in the criminal system, there in
Speaker 1: some way to blame for their own circumstances. And you know,
Speaker 1: the system is about producing this outcomes, even when they
Speaker 1: hear about police brutality or for what for them, it
Speaker 1: seems like an outline or a mistake or the system
Speaker 1: you know, going wrong as opposed to this is what
Speaker 1: it produces every day. Yeah, I mean the media portrays
Speaker 1: the asserted motivation. So this is from Alec Karrikin Santis
Speaker 1: who's an abolitionist also, Yeah, so he he was saying that,
Speaker 1: like the media portrays the asserted motivations of powerful people
Speaker 1: as their actual motivations. Like this is how capaganda. Like
Speaker 1: they will just say whatever the police say they were
Speaker 1: trying to do was what theyre they like, without any criticism.
Speaker 1: It's like if it's like if they reported that BP
Speaker 1: is actually an organization that is designed for taking care
Speaker 1: of the climate, addressing climate change, because there's an ad
Speaker 1: that BP puts out that says that ship and they
Speaker 1: it's just like that that's a good trick. And like
Speaker 1: everybody listening should always like watch how the media will
Speaker 1: just take at face value anything a powerful person says
Speaker 1: about their motives. But then somebody who is you know,
Speaker 1: killed by the police, arrested by the police, you know
Speaker 1: that their motives will immediately be called into questions. Anybody
Speaker 1: who's not powerful will immediately like it'll be thrown up
Speaker 1: as like we don't know what they were doing there,
Speaker 1: We don't know. However, people and police their opinions, their
Speaker 1: their story, their narrative is treated as fact at any
Speaker 1: level of push back to that is a conspiracy or
Speaker 1: something that needs to be investigated, because like the one
Speaker 1: step further, even in media, when you try like when
Speaker 1: I try to, when you write off ads and things
Speaker 1: like this, even if you make the entire argument right,
Speaker 1: you have everything sort like cited for why you believe this, right,
Speaker 1: this is the actual motivated motivation behind whatever the police
Speaker 1: are doing, other politicians are doing. You decided to a
Speaker 1: million facts. They'll say, well, the police didn't. They didn't
Speaker 1: say that, you know what I mean, like, oh, into
Speaker 1: your opinion, they'll take that out, Oh, we don't. We
Speaker 1: can't say, we can't speak to their motivations. You know,
Speaker 1: if it's always this desire to give them the benefit
Speaker 1: of the doubt that does not exist in our society
Speaker 1: legally any other way, Like when you think about it,
Speaker 1: even if we look at how police investigations are conducted
Speaker 1: in America. If I if I call if Miles, if
Speaker 1: I call the police and I say, Miles sent me
Speaker 1: thirty and text messages cussing my ass out you in
Speaker 1: New York City, you best believe you could be arrested
Speaker 1: and charged with activated arresting me in the third degree.
Speaker 1: I represented many people. All you need is the accusation.
Speaker 1: But when it comes to police, when it comes to politicians,
Speaker 1: you could watch the whole incident on video investing investigation
Speaker 1: and the police get to d a's officers, and the
Speaker 1: police officers get to invest gate themselves, you know, investigate
Speaker 1: themselves and say, ah, know, our intentions were pure. It
Speaker 1: was this all these different things. But usually if you
Speaker 1: say it in court any other time, obviously anybody affused
Speaker 1: the crime and tell the court you know, no, we
Speaker 1: deny this. Our story is this, and you know what
Speaker 1: they say, that's an issue for trial, that's an issue
Speaker 1: for the jury. That's that is your argument. Everybody is
Speaker 1: the right to make an argument, but not when it
Speaker 1: comes to the police. The police get to make their
Speaker 1: argument and decide, oh, no charges should come. That's a
Speaker 1: cap that's what I heard. Ye, yes, there must be
Speaker 1: There must always be something you are not seeing, some
Speaker 1: other way to spin it. You know how many times,
Speaker 1: how many different cases have you seen? You've watched police
Speaker 1: brutality on video and then they tell you to an
Speaker 1: investigation and you don't hear anything for a year or
Speaker 1: two when you when you finally look back, quietly, no
Speaker 1: charges were brought up. The Prosper's office declined to bring charges, right,
Speaker 1: And they're always and they're always on the leave with pay, yes,
Speaker 1: always always on some paid administrative leave. The one thing, too,
Speaker 1: is like you know, I think because we've allowed like
Speaker 1: just this consistent definition of crime to just be like
Speaker 1: the dominant narrative of like crime is when bad people
Speaker 1: do bad ship. That's what crime is. There's not we
Speaker 1: have such a crumbling society that people are merely trying
Speaker 1: to survive and do things to survive and doing things
Speaker 1: that just that you would think, oh, I would never
Speaker 1: do that, but that's maybe you from your perspective where
Speaker 1: you have a safety net, some kind of support system,
Speaker 1: where others purely are trying to survive. And I think
Speaker 1: that allows constantly for cops to be like, yeah, you
Speaker 1: know these people are bad or whatever. It's like, I
Speaker 1: don't know somebody who's stealing like food, I don't know what,
Speaker 1: like I'm not, I don't I don't see TikTok videos
Speaker 1: of people being like yo, this is how I got
Speaker 1: a lambo because I'm stealing food and then like flipping it.
Speaker 1: That's not what we're talking about. And I think it
Speaker 1: allows for this constant like dehumanization of people, which easily
Speaker 1: allows them, like for people to have like this, you know,
Speaker 1: easy thought pattern to occur, which is cops said they're bad.
Speaker 1: That's bad. I don't know why they're bad. But if
Speaker 1: they're bad, and their criminals, and that's crime, and that's
Speaker 1: I don't need to have. I don't need to have
Speaker 1: empathy for right. And what I think also is important
Speaker 1: is that they don't know one No one uh stops
Speaker 1: to discuss the fact that the quote unquote victims of
Speaker 1: crime and perpetrators are crime and the same people the
Speaker 1: same community. Right, Like how in the same breath, if
Speaker 1: if web designate all these specific areas and communities as
Speaker 1: high crime areas, right, all the poor communities, all the
Speaker 1: black communities, all the people of color communities, right, those
Speaker 1: are these are high crime areas. So that being said,
Speaker 1: these are also the people that are the victims of crimes.
Speaker 1: So the same communities that you're heavily policing and you're incarcerating,
Speaker 1: you feel like they are so bad they need to
Speaker 1: be punished, and you do all these punitive things that
Speaker 1: prevent them from every getting out hole You're punishing the
Speaker 1: exact same community you claim you want to be helping.
Speaker 1: So it's just so obviously logically inconsistent. And I think
Speaker 1: that's a problem with something I I would think about
Speaker 1: as a public defender is when you meet your clients,
Speaker 1: you are they've already been failed in some way. This
Speaker 1: is not the first time, you know, the system has
Speaker 1: harmed them. Anybody that I represent in which is the
Speaker 1: vast majority of people that are in the criminal system,
Speaker 1: are destitute poor, like can't afford an attorney because I
Speaker 1: wouldn't follow five from my own services and I could
Speaker 1: not afford my own services or an attorney. Services is astronomical.
Speaker 1: So the average person is in in the criminal system
Speaker 1: are people who are not seeing any money at all completely.
Speaker 1: And if you see that and you say, okay, these
Speaker 1: are people already don't have any money they don't have
Speaker 1: any resources, and now all right, I'm gonna put you
Speaker 1: in the criminal system. You gotta rap sheet together this
Speaker 1: Not only are they suffering their children, suffering the whole community,
Speaker 1: their family, and it just is constantly regurgitating cycles and
Speaker 1: cycles of poverty. And also in addition to that, when
Speaker 1: we tend to end the analysis of crimes of poverty
Speaker 1: and like what it's direct, like in a sense, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm poor, so I can't buy food, so I school food.
Speaker 1: And they were like, all right, those we can understand that,
Speaker 1: you know, those of us, and there left to be
Speaker 1: people they can reconcile themselves with that person you know,
Speaker 1: doesn't deserve to be prosecuted. But it also comes to
Speaker 1: people that are committing assault, or they're you know, they're fighting,
Speaker 1: or they're cursing people out, or they're doing why do
Speaker 1: you think that happens? Always tell people I am far
Speaker 1: more likely to slap the shut out of you if
Speaker 1: my rent can't get paid. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: If I when the times in my life, when my
Speaker 1: life is good, when my things are paid for adequately,
Speaker 1: I am so much nicer. I will deal with things
Speaker 1: so much better. I am so much willing to be
Speaker 1: a reasonable But but if life is on you, if
Speaker 1: life is on you, you got you got a father
Speaker 1: in jail, you can't you know, you've got a mother
Speaker 1: with medical bills you try to pay for. You don't
Speaker 1: have health and journs, you can't get to school, you're
Speaker 1: losing your apartment, all these different things. You're more likely
Speaker 1: to fight somebody, you know what I mean. You're more
Speaker 1: likely to respond to life issues in the worst way.
Speaker 1: You're more likely to feel like, oh, I have to
Speaker 1: go sell drums, I have to do these different things.
Speaker 1: And so it's a it's a much larger, larger phenomenon
Speaker 1: and problem in the way that poverty relates to these outcomes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because cops are just like the room buh that that
Speaker 1: suck up the failure of our capitalist system. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, we're just here to clean that up.
Speaker 1: No real, not about it. They're they're one They're one branch.
Speaker 1: They're one bad branch on the whole battery. That's what
Speaker 1: I like to see it. You know, we tend to focus,
Speaker 1: we focus on police, and then we end the narrative there,
Speaker 1: and I think that's what what can become problematic right.
Speaker 1: It's like when I'm in the criminal and when I'm
Speaker 1: in court, I'm not. It's not like it's just the police,
Speaker 1: the police, the judge, the court officer as the prosecutor,
Speaker 1: all on the same team. You by yourself. It's only
Speaker 1: you and your client on this agenda, right, you. The
Speaker 1: entire system is set up this way. Police might arrest people,
Speaker 1: but as the prosecutors who got to decide to bring
Speaker 1: in charges. It's judges, you know, um convicting people sentence
Speaker 1: and people listens because they're all, you know, in tandem.
Speaker 1: And also the laws of the prosecutors and the police
Speaker 1: officers are and the judges are enforcing and using. The
Speaker 1: legislators are the ones who wrote them all this determinate sentencing.
Speaker 1: They're all they're all make you know, and part of
Speaker 1: a concerted and a concerted effort. So let me we
Speaker 1: end the analysis and condemned the police as one officer
Speaker 1: should be we should be charged, or this should happen
Speaker 1: this way, and then we're confused as to how the
Speaker 1: system keeps reproducing the exact same results. Yeah. Like, so
Speaker 1: Biden reference the defund the police movement by being like,
Speaker 1: we don't need to defund we need to fund. But
Speaker 1: MPR is also like MPR just published an article that
Speaker 1: claimed and I actually heard this on MPR. We we
Speaker 1: make fun of MPR alaw about the show for just
Speaker 1: like being a s MR for neo libs, but they
Speaker 1: also like are they report some damaging ships sometimes when
Speaker 1: this report was just basically being like crimes gone way
Speaker 1: up and people aren't getting caught anymore because of the
Speaker 1: defund the police. And the thing they based it on
Speaker 1: was something that like a random person who they interviewed said.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like an expert, it wasn't based on statistics.
Speaker 1: This is the this is the key once sourcing. Anthony
Speaker 1: branch six got into trouble for carrying a gun when
Speaker 1: he was a team watching the gun culture in his neighborhood.
Speaker 1: He thinks more miners and felons are carrying guns illegally
Speaker 1: now for one simple reason quote defund the police. As
Speaker 1: he put it, that is connect anything ishness. They know
Speaker 1: it right, like think about it. Courtrooms. Courtrooms are technically
Speaker 1: public right of court. The courts are open to the public.
Speaker 1: Anybody can can come in there and sit there. But
Speaker 1: yet we're not allowed to record or take picture of
Speaker 1: anything that's happened in courtant No one's allowed to court,
Speaker 1: you know, lawyers were not allowed to because the appage person.
Speaker 1: People cannot go sit in courtrooms and go watch entire
Speaker 1: corporate that's not gonna happen, right, But if people did,
Speaker 1: and people saw what actually happens in corps, what's the
Speaker 1: average thing that is a crime or what people are
Speaker 1: being prosecuted for, and how it's being treated, they would
Speaker 1: feel differently about it. So what they do is they
Speaker 1: take these sensationalized story They produce shows like Law and
Speaker 1: Order and everything else that's on our TV, and it
Speaker 1: treats crime people think of cry Like people so often
Speaker 1: say to me, I have represented over a thousand people
Speaker 1: in very few cases or anything that's like salacious or
Speaker 1: wild or anybody who done so Like it's just just
Speaker 1: regular everyday life things that you wouldn't even realize or criminalized.
Speaker 1: When I first became a public defender, it was jarring
Speaker 1: to be realizing how much ship I could have been
Speaker 1: arrested for if I just happened to be criminalized, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Or if if they lived in
Speaker 1: a certain society like the entire Bahamas, which is where
Speaker 1: I'm from. The entire every Behaman person would be behind
Speaker 1: bars in American's criminal system absolutely immediately, just whole way
Speaker 1: to be engaged. I want to represented a lady who
Speaker 1: got arrested like shortly after giving birth to her child
Speaker 1: because like a woman was saxon and like arguing with
Speaker 1: her like during like during laboring, and she was like,
Speaker 1: fuck you whatever, don't play you know what I mean
Speaker 1: something like that, and they arrested them with pro agrivated arrassment.
Speaker 1: In the third they do stuff like that. I I
Speaker 1: represented so many people where they arrest them because they
Speaker 1: were banging on their own door because they locked the door.
Speaker 1: They locked themselves out. Now they charge you with criminal
Speaker 1: mischief and say, well you don't actually this is a
Speaker 1: nightsha building. You will own that door. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the nonsense. Amount of people in who have been
Speaker 1: saddened wrikers because of traffic violations things that they literally yes,
Speaker 1: it's absurd, it's absurd. So you know, they intentionally keep
Speaker 1: that stuff away from you, and then they choose these
Speaker 1: choose these outlier cases and sensationalized the system and so
Speaker 1: people think of everybody that's in jail as other they
Speaker 1: don't think of them as you know, you are more
Speaker 1: disturbing exactly. But if you actually, you know, put a
Speaker 1: magnifying First of all, you put a magnifying glass on anybody,
Speaker 1: and it probably don't know, have to be a good
Speaker 1: magnifying glass. They're committing in form of crime. They're doing
Speaker 1: something that's technically illegally illegal because America's overbroad. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: can find a way, yea, yeah, absolutely, it'd all be
Speaker 1: in jail. Show. All right, let's take a quick break.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back to kind of continue talking about
Speaker 1: this and law and Order the TV show, not the
Speaker 1: broad concept. And we're back, and you know, as we
Speaker 1: were talking about before the break, like this kind of
Speaker 1: brings up the question of you know that now we
Speaker 1: we had I think I've heard you talk about the
Speaker 1: fact that like the alignm me that like the Black
Speaker 1: Lives Matter movement in was could be considered like one
Speaker 1: of the largest like social civil rights movements. And now
Speaker 1: the main way we hear about it in the mainstream
Speaker 1: media is like these things being like we don't got
Speaker 1: to defund the police, got a fund the police, and
Speaker 1: like NPR like blaming it for a straight up murder.
Speaker 1: So this like kind of raised the question, why is
Speaker 1: this particular lie so just deeply like so hard to
Speaker 1: shake that like violent armed police and human caging are
Speaker 1: the only way to deal with things, And you know,
Speaker 1: there's it's structurally integral to our society. It's like a
Speaker 1: lie that is undergirds all of the white supremacy everything.
Speaker 1: And that's your answer, it's definitely under That's why something
Speaker 1: doesn't become the status quo because the majority isn't invested
Speaker 1: in like defending and maintaining That's the why. But one
Speaker 1: of the like how I guess questions of like how
Speaker 1: they got everybody to like kind of go along with
Speaker 1: it is you pointed out. And our super producer Tricia
Speaker 1: mccargee is joining us to talk about your your argument
Speaker 1: in a piece for Team Vogue about like Law and Order,
Speaker 1: the TV show and just you know, copaganda in general,
Speaker 1: being like creating this standard narrative where the cops are
Speaker 1: the protagonist. Yeah, I mean, it's it's an everage. So
Speaker 1: I guess I tried to look at it common sensically
Speaker 1: and I think I have the benefit of my My
Speaker 1: family is Behyman. They live in the Bahamas, so this
Speaker 1: isn't their society at all, but we watched the same
Speaker 1: things we're watching. My mother so often responds to me,
Speaker 1: who is in the Bahamas. You don't vote here, you
Speaker 1: don't live here. She don't have no reason to be
Speaker 1: invested here. But she is child and my mummy and
Speaker 1: them is a heavy a heavy copagan in the house.
Speaker 1: My mom and them go on order, snapped all of it.
Speaker 1: My mommy is watching it all and she loves it. Okay,
Speaker 1: her boy uh stayed learn them. She'll she'd be ready
Speaker 1: to fight me in the house over this stuff. And
Speaker 1: I recognized, you know, and I thought about it early
Speaker 1: on from jump is one of the first things we
Speaker 1: teach people. You know, it's like, oh this, you know,
Speaker 1: nine on one we teach little children. You know, this
Speaker 1: is not your here's your parents number, Here's nine one one.
Speaker 1: You know, you play cops and robbers, Cops and the
Speaker 1: good guys. Rubbers are bad. Everything you watch has, you know,
Speaker 1: protict protagonist antagonists. Antagonist is automatically treated as the villain.
Speaker 1: And then so many things beyond just the amount to
Speaker 1: share volume of shows that we have. It's just the
Speaker 1: rat capaganda, like going on a see aside, and even
Speaker 1: like Lucifer TV shows, like so many of them have this.
Speaker 1: But I thought about this eave another day with like
Speaker 1: cartoons you watch and you don't even realize it, Like
Speaker 1: I was a big papa for girls like big Big
Speaker 1: and tababa girls like love me some Papa girls, Okay,
Speaker 1: And I realized the other day, and I'm like, why
Speaker 1: didn't they notice that these three logals was agent to
Speaker 1: the stakes, beating people down to the white meat. The
Speaker 1: minute the mayor call them up, like you ain't never
Speaker 1: noticed that, like the whole that's literally what it is.
Speaker 1: The Popera girls, the mayor calls them up, red button, heyy,
Speaker 1: we just heard some funk them up. Meeting is the
Speaker 1: man they see him then the whole this episode, they
Speaker 1: see Mojo doing the food, so Moo is trying to
Speaker 1: buy some groceries. They beat him and they beat his
Speaker 1: ass down and everybody right, like if you even think
Speaker 1: about Mojo Jojo, the whole town's people, all the towns
Speaker 1: people look like the powerpup girls Apricot called white people
Speaker 1: just like Professor X right, all all of the all
Speaker 1: the villains, Mojo, Jojo, Green, Fuzzy Lumpkin, pig, the gang Green,
Speaker 1: Gang is green, The boogey Man is blue, him is red.
Speaker 1: All the people of color are villain criminals. Again they
Speaker 1: asked seven, and you realize like eventually everything you watch
Speaker 1: is kind of treated like this, like this is what
Speaker 1: we've designated is good and this is what we've designated
Speaker 1: as bad, and nothing in between really matters. It don't matter.
Speaker 1: You don't see, don't do process and the you know,
Speaker 1: and you watch, like, but it really is like that,
Speaker 1: how much of things are you watching? It shows you
Speaker 1: you want. It shows you that the police are breaking
Speaker 1: the law, like they're right to be in violent it's
Speaker 1: showing you how the police has to because this bad
Speaker 1: guy or they're constrained. I watched the Chippen Chane, the
Speaker 1: Chippendale rescue movie the other day, and it was the
Speaker 1: same ship like, oh, the police, the police were working
Speaker 1: with Chippendale to try to get Peter pad in them
Speaker 1: and the police are like, oh, we want to do something,
Speaker 1: but we can't Chippendale because you know these constitutional rights
Speaker 1: and stuff. So Chippendale were like ships always Yeah, due
Speaker 1: process is treated as like it's never been in a
Speaker 1: single movie. It's like, yeahs the only the only person
Speaker 1: who brings in up due processes, like about to get
Speaker 1: their heads smashed into their desk by Russell Crowe before
Speaker 1: out and catches the bag. Yes, yes, and like all
Speaker 1: jokes aside like that. That is something like we don't
Speaker 1: realize how much we're like how we're taught to perceive
Speaker 1: the world isn't green and stuff, like even Lucifer, Lucifer
Speaker 1: is the literal fucking devil, Like he's Satan. He's literally Satan,
Speaker 1: and for for Satan to be redeemed in the eyes
Speaker 1: of God in the world he works with the l
Speaker 1: A p. D Like a dead ass. That's the plot
Speaker 1: of the show. Like that's the plot of the show,
Speaker 1: and you know it's the only person they matter of fact,
Speaker 1: he is saying it's gonna go to hell. The defense
Speaker 1: attorney and in order to go to heaven, she had
Speaker 1: to quit the defense and the angle become a d
Speaker 1: A and then they goes to heaven because the defense
Speaker 1: attorneys just trying to get bad guys off the hook,
Speaker 1: and like it's all the world. Yeah, And you realize
Speaker 1: when you watch TV and you think about it more,
Speaker 1: you see it in everything that person they're always the
Speaker 1: bag out with the poor character whoever it is, they're
Speaker 1: bad there this it's like that, it's like that. It's
Speaker 1: funny that you bring up the l a p D. Right,
Speaker 1: because Tricia, you point out, like the kind of l
Speaker 1: a p D kind of has it. Yeah, right, exactly.
Speaker 1: So I read your article. First of all, your work
Speaker 1: is amazing, it's so cool. But yeah, so I just
Speaker 1: started going a little bit deeper into this copaganda in
Speaker 1: TV shows around your kind, and I'm one interesting thing
Speaker 1: I found out was, of course, like the media has
Speaker 1: always supported the police through the US the history of
Speaker 1: the country, but in the nineteen fifties it was actually
Speaker 1: formalized because this actor, director Web, he made this deal
Speaker 1: with the l a p D. Where if the l
Speaker 1: a p D would allow him to access police equipment
Speaker 1: and quickly approved permits and get off duty officers as
Speaker 1: extras in his movies, he allowed the l a p
Speaker 1: D to read over his scripts and basically just veto
Speaker 1: anything that they didn't like. So of course they're not
Speaker 1: going to approve anything where the cops are portrayed as bad.
Speaker 1: And then this has just been the standards set in
Speaker 1: Hollywood and just set in TV and movie industry where
Speaker 1: the police is literally controlling what we see on the
Speaker 1: screen in a lot of ways. Yes, absolutely absolutely realized
Speaker 1: it so much more. I have a friend who who
Speaker 1: was writing the script the other day like entertainment, and
Speaker 1: he had like just not even thinking about it because
Speaker 1: it's so like into shows that when you think about
Speaker 1: public defenders are depicted in all media and we're depicted
Speaker 1: as bombs, right like bums. Anytime you see a public
Speaker 1: defender and anything like they're dropping the files and it's
Speaker 1: a way, it's how and it's how this this them
Speaker 1: like goals and blames and it's so funny because that
Speaker 1: has so much you know a lot of how your
Speaker 1: relationship plays out, which your clients has everything to do
Speaker 1: it with their initial even perception of you is and
Speaker 1: if a public of a public defender gets blamed, like
Speaker 1: when you think the money is attributed is in these
Speaker 1: day ways deliberately a public defender is underfunded, but the
Speaker 1: prosecutor's office is are not but we're funded by the
Speaker 1: exact same ant teams we're offosed across out we're doing
Speaker 1: the same level of worklow but it's deliberately set up
Speaker 1: where the public defenders are ill equipped right, and even
Speaker 1: when in that system, like public defenders yet blamed for
Speaker 1: plea deals or or present you with the police, which
Speaker 1: is you you are obligated. You have to present whatever
Speaker 1: it is the police offer. But the police offers made
Speaker 1: better prosecutors. The reason why you even have to tell them, oh,
Speaker 1: you should probably take a plea because this is what's
Speaker 1: likely to happen at trial, because the determinate sentencing that
Speaker 1: my legislators and what the judge is going to punish you.
Speaker 1: It's so many different ways the system is actively doing
Speaker 1: all these different things. But how does our media spin
Speaker 1: into people, oh, if you could afford to have is
Speaker 1: these is these broadcasts by mass public defenders that are
Speaker 1: causing you to go to jail and again. And it all,
Speaker 1: you know, relates back to poverty in general, because even
Speaker 1: in a world where we pretended the problem was the
Speaker 1: public defender, the problem is this this public defender that's
Speaker 1: still a reflection to the fact the majority of the
Speaker 1: people in the criminal system are poor, you know, and
Speaker 1: they're being represented by public defenders as opposed they can't
Speaker 1: afford pay representation. Not that it's true that public defenders
Speaker 1: are all equipped, but even if that was the case,
Speaker 1: and it's not like the court doesn't know. I think
Speaker 1: something people forget to people and I and I and
Speaker 1: I appreciate that people are optimistic or they have I
Speaker 1: don't know, more faith in their in their actors. But
Speaker 1: the court knows everything else that you tell the rest
Speaker 1: of the society that shocks their conscience and gets them
Speaker 1: to see like, oh, the system is messed up, and
Speaker 1: they think, oh, we need to get that inform. Like
Speaker 1: the people in power, the people doing it don't know.
Speaker 1: I was signed by the court. The person who sets
Speaker 1: the bail is the same person that just said this
Speaker 1: person has no money, they can't afford a lawyer. And
Speaker 1: I'm also gonna set my bad money on them for
Speaker 1: bill because you're gonna now you're gonna go to jail
Speaker 1: for something you haven't make. They know it's deliberately done
Speaker 1: that way, and I want I actually in law school,
Speaker 1: I went to a prosecutor mill for a law school.
Speaker 1: I was like the only public defender of my class.
Speaker 1: Everybody else's prosecutor. But in going to that prosc oh yeah,
Speaker 1: trust me, scress and go into that prosecutor mill. You know,
Speaker 1: they pressured me to do an internship at the d
Speaker 1: a's office one summer, and it it went the way
Speaker 1: you would think a person like me in the d A. Listen.
Speaker 1: It was terrible, but I remember the one thing I
Speaker 1: appreciate is I confirmed that all of the horrible things
Speaker 1: that I think academically, you think like, oh, you have
Speaker 1: to parse out racism, and you more so think it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: if my statistically look at the numbers, you'll realize it's racist. Nah,
Speaker 1: that's upfront, Like up front there they're actively like trying
Speaker 1: to force and muscle people asigned supportingt that positions. And
Speaker 1: because people don't know how it actually works in the
Speaker 1: maneuvers and what you know, what happens from on the
Speaker 1: legal end. So they'll be like, you're bringing people and
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, I don't want to I don't want
Speaker 1: to press charges. I don't want a criminal case. So
Speaker 1: I want them to have you know, therapy. I want
Speaker 1: them to get this. And they'll be like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you're just supporting. If you signed the supporting that position,
Speaker 1: I could get them counseling or whatever. They really mean.
Speaker 1: It's signed this and now I have the document I
Speaker 1: need to proceed on this criminal case for this person.
Speaker 1: And in the case of there's a certain amount of
Speaker 1: days where if that's not signed or they don't have
Speaker 1: that paperwork, if you have somebody in on bail they
Speaker 1: have to come out, you'll feel like you have to
Speaker 1: get them out. So what they do is they force
Speaker 1: muscle these people sign it. Sign it now, you know.
Speaker 1: And then now this person is stuck in jail. So
Speaker 1: now they're forced to take a plea or want to,
Speaker 1: you know, negotiate with you a police because they're literally
Speaker 1: gonna sit in prison until on a case there and
Speaker 1: you were never gonna be able to prosecute, they were
Speaker 1: never gonna be able to get convicted of or whatever.
Speaker 1: But now they're in this position and so and that's
Speaker 1: that's the unfortunate reality. Like people and rikers. People they
Speaker 1: hear about places like Wrikers, but they don't realize, right,
Speaker 1: because it's a pretty trial attention center. If you hear
Speaker 1: about something that is this infamously awful place, you think
Speaker 1: it's great, infamously awful people. You don't realize it's anybody
Speaker 1: that gets arrested in New York City for anything, trafficking, fashion, jumping,
Speaker 1: the turnstyle, whatever you don't have money. That's where you're at.
Speaker 1: And and Rikers isn't even the worst of its kind.
Speaker 1: You have Cook County in Chicago, where the average person
Speaker 1: is waiting, waiting for their trial in prison for the
Speaker 1: six years, eight years, some people in their eleven years
Speaker 1: doing full bates on things they have not even had
Speaker 1: a trial on. It's absurd, but that's how the that's
Speaker 1: how to stack it, right, And we and I think
Speaker 1: because of that like sort of gap between what the
Speaker 1: lived experiences of the people who are actually grappling with
Speaker 1: the system and then like the writer's rooms that are
Speaker 1: then like I don't know, like I'm rich, and like
Speaker 1: we got off because we got a like a good lawyer.
Speaker 1: I think that probably feeds into this problem as well. Right,
Speaker 1: my dad got me a good lawyer when I was
Speaker 1: arrested in college for pissing in the street. Right, And
Speaker 1: that's and that's another trope you see a lot, because
Speaker 1: I think you're seeing these writers reflect back what even
Speaker 1: their own experience was, Like I fucking ran over a
Speaker 1: homeless guy, but I got how many how many times
Speaker 1: you watch The White Show and a character like gets
Speaker 1: arrested and they're they're out like the next scene, and
Speaker 1: you never hear about it for the arrest of the show,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, No case, no doubt that
Speaker 1: that that's how it's treated, because that is often very
Speaker 1: much in reality. Even on the rare occasion, like I said,
Speaker 1: I represented over a thousand people, I probably have not
Speaker 1: represented thirty people like they were that many. When even
Speaker 1: I remember all my white clients by name because they're
Speaker 1: few and farm between, and they're always sucking outraged, outraged
Speaker 1: that they're and then I can I'll listen, no one
Speaker 1: more outraged for you than a white person that's been arrested.
Speaker 1: They would call you every I use of a white
Speaker 1: client called me every day and go so people can
Speaker 1: just lie on me and I can go every day.
Speaker 1: He couldn't believe. He could not wrap her head around there.
Speaker 1: And that's so that's often with the experiences, because even
Speaker 1: when I have them, they get they dismissed it. At Raymonds,
Speaker 1: They're dismissed it right then they would offer them. I
Speaker 1: once had a white guy was on a motorcycle, did
Speaker 1: a high speed chase from he high speed chase on
Speaker 1: his motorcycle. The plase, I mean, he was really he
Speaker 1: was really on ten get like gets into an accident,
Speaker 1: jumps off the bike, keeps fucking running, dumps defense. They
Speaker 1: eventually get to him. They dismissed it at Raymonds. They
Speaker 1: would never have done that ship like I I even
Speaker 1: one time I represented like back to back, so same
Speaker 1: Arraymond Shift, Literally I have their files. Did this one
Speaker 1: immediately did the same judge, same prosecutor represented a black
Speaker 1: eye who was accused of having one blunt. They asked
Speaker 1: for like thirty five dollars bail on him right right
Speaker 1: immediately right after graphly when a white guy who was
Speaker 1: found with a bunch of drugs like dealer dealer, white
Speaker 1: dealer consent to release like they' and what's the ground?
Speaker 1: Or one time I represented a white girl who was
Speaker 1: accused of some wild ship, like some wild ship, and
Speaker 1: I remember looking, I could see the prosecutor next to me.
Speaker 1: You could see their files right like across I could
Speaker 1: so I could see the pictures of the victim in
Speaker 1: the in the case and who was an Arab guy.
Speaker 1: I could see the pictures of the victim in the hospital.
Speaker 1: So when I see you the bus is at bail,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh fuck, she's going on to Janiel, like
Speaker 1: they're about to show those pictures like they bought you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. There was a white prosecutor. She
Speaker 1: just closed the file and consented to release. She just
Speaker 1: didn't say ship about the vision. And I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: sit like that's my client. But I'm like I remember
Speaker 1: that day being like an application, like, oh, Sin's a
Speaker 1: different fucking system. This is not something I have to
Speaker 1: academically pars out. This is happening real life. Like I'm
Speaker 1: looking at them like, hey, yo, y'all know that I
Speaker 1: saw y'all just not do this for the black people,
Speaker 1: Like I'm here, I'm witnessing it, and it's like or
Speaker 1: I'll call you. Yeah, they literally call you when it's
Speaker 1: your white clones. The way they talk about it. The
Speaker 1: prosecutor is entirely different. Mill They're like that same case
Speaker 1: with the white girl with the with the Arab victim.
Speaker 1: The prosecutor was like this a beanerful and they called
Speaker 1: me because they wanted to prosecute the Arab guy who
Speaker 1: was in the hospital based on what she's saying. They
Speaker 1: they know to some degree that she sucked him up.
Speaker 1: He's in the hospital. She's just saying that he did
Speaker 1: something too, and now they called me like, oh, they
Speaker 1: want to charge him for a felony because they can't
Speaker 1: talk to my client, you know, without my permission. And
Speaker 1: the prosecutor said to me, were like, oh, well, you know,
Speaker 1: you know she's accused of whatever to him, but you know,
Speaker 1: apparently you know, he lied, he lied. I've never had
Speaker 1: that's my story. My story is always to my client,
Speaker 1: didn't do it. I've never had the prosecutor credit my
Speaker 1: story to the clients. Only when I have a white
Speaker 1: client and they're like, yeah, must be some misunderstandings. Yeah, ye,
Speaker 1: Like with the copaganda, like I know we see like
Speaker 1: we're talking about there's like all these terrible tropes like
Speaker 1: cop equals good uh you know, get your good lawyer
Speaker 1: and things like that, Tia, What are like other because
Speaker 1: I think those are like that, and I think those
Speaker 1: are the most broad versions of things we see. But
Speaker 1: so many other ways that I think this quote unquote
Speaker 1: criminal justice system is represented, which I think is a
Speaker 1: total misnomber. But what what do you what? What what else?
Speaker 1: What are the other ways that like those things are right?
Speaker 1: So of course there's there's that overarching idea that like
Speaker 1: when you have this protagonist who's a cop you're like
Speaker 1: really emotionally attached to and kind of manipulated into supporting
Speaker 1: in these movies and TV shows. If they do bad things,
Speaker 1: like you still don't consider them that. So that really
Speaker 1: affects just the public perception of police violence. But then
Speaker 1: looking a bit deeper into it, so there's a study
Speaker 1: called Normalizing Injustice that was conducted by a nonprofit called
Speaker 1: Color of Change, and so they just dive deeper. They
Speaker 1: do this great numerical study and look at several different shows,
Speaker 1: and so one thing that I read about was just
Speaker 1: like disciplining cops who are violent or who do really
Speaker 1: step out of flyne and harm the people that they're
Speaker 1: interacting with. So in the study they found that only
Speaker 1: three point seven percent of on screen wrong FLA actions
Speaker 1: based any investigation. So that childreally normalizes cops stepping out
Speaker 1: of flyne, hurting people and then never being punished for
Speaker 1: it and actually usually being supported for it. And um,
Speaker 1: I think this speeds a lot into cases like Brianna
Speaker 1: Taylor's where the cops it's like should they be like
Speaker 1: are they going to be punished? I mean, it takes
Speaker 1: the system so long to like condemn someone for me
Speaker 1: during and and and it usually doesn't. And also we
Speaker 1: need to remember that even when there is right, like
Speaker 1: when people get their civil settlements, the comps aren't punished.
Speaker 1: Me pay for that, the cops scary, we're paying for that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we're paying that nothing nothing is happening at all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the average yes, all the phone yeah they don't.
Speaker 1: And a lot of cops just get away scott free,
Speaker 1: like there's just nothing done to them. Another thing that
Speaker 1: I looked into a sexual violence um so shows like
Speaker 1: SPU they portray these really great detectives working on behalf
Speaker 1: of survivors of sexual violence, but in reality, like cops
Speaker 1: perpetrate a lot of sexual violence. Exactly, cops perpetrate the
Speaker 1: sexual violence. And then when people who experience it come
Speaker 1: to the cops because that's what we're constantly told to do. Again,
Speaker 1: like since we're little, we see all these things that oh,
Speaker 1: we'll call nine one one and the cops will save
Speaker 1: us from that's just so far from the truth. When
Speaker 1: we do report sexual violence, well, first of all, people
Speaker 1: are just scared because they know how fucked up the
Speaker 1: system is. But then when you do filer report the
Speaker 1: police rarely, rarely do anything, and most people who have
Speaker 1: already survived it's very traumatic experience are just dissatisfied with
Speaker 1: the response. And then finally so in terms of just
Speaker 1: reforming the criminal justice system, there is basically no discussion
Speaker 1: of that in TV and yeah no, and it's like
Speaker 1: a hip And that's the thing. The right they fight
Speaker 1: against any like, they completely dismiss any discussion. If you
Speaker 1: want to talk about abolition right of the criminal system,
Speaker 1: they completely dismiss that. And though that that's a radical
Speaker 1: we should be talking reform and anything, the slightest thing
Speaker 1: you suggest reform, the media then commits it's all of
Speaker 1: its energy to attacking that. Twenty four seven. You try
Speaker 1: to do bail reform, you try to do things, and
Speaker 1: then suddenly they create entire you know, propaganda and waves
Speaker 1: and discussions and stuff around around fighting that. So what
Speaker 1: it really is is they don't want any change at all.
Speaker 1: They liked the system as it is. And I think
Speaker 1: that's an important partners that whenever they're trying to say,
Speaker 1: you know, the bad Apple discussion, I'm like, well, the
Speaker 1: police disagree with you. Right in a different world, if
Speaker 1: if I have if I have no organization, and one
Speaker 1: person in my organization was was a funk up right,
Speaker 1: and I really I believe that person. What they're doing
Speaker 1: does not represent this organization. I'm not gonna fight you
Speaker 1: and must get rid of that person or you know,
Speaker 1: these people are bad. But it's the police department, it's
Speaker 1: the police unions that say no, it was okay. Did
Speaker 1: they kill them? When did they ever? When did the
Speaker 1: police unions? When did the police departments? When did the
Speaker 1: politicians get out and tell you, yeah, that's a bad apple,
Speaker 1: Yeah that's bad. They never They stand with that officer
Speaker 1: to the very end, to the very end, and then
Speaker 1: they do everything that they can, everything that they can
Speaker 1: around beating the rest of the community into shibition. Right again,
Speaker 1: let's say it was a bad apple. So every time
Speaker 1: you have a bad apples, and let's think about the
Speaker 1: numbers and that every year in America over this is
Speaker 1: just shot and killed. This is just who police are
Speaker 1: recording as they shot and killed. So that's not all
Speaker 1: your George Floyd's, that's not your Elijah mcclains, is not
Speaker 1: your Eric Garner's, that's not your Alton Sterlings. That's none
Speaker 1: of the people that are being killed in another way,
Speaker 1: and that's none of the police brutality that does not
Speaker 1: rise to down. So exclude all of that, all your
Speaker 1: Jacob Blake's the average police kill, shoot and kill over
Speaker 1: one thousand and forty five people every year in America.
Speaker 1: So let's say we got right. So we got all
Speaker 1: of those bad apples, and what maybe five of them,
Speaker 1: twelves of them for the year, maybe best case, get
Speaker 1: some kind of like large media attention. And that's the response.
Speaker 1: They immediately send out militarized police to go beat the protesters,
Speaker 1: go arrest the protesters, curfews, and you get a bunch
Speaker 1: of charges, to get a bunch of video show on
Speaker 1: police brutality on video. Even remember when they knocked that
Speaker 1: old white man down, that old man split his hand open.
Speaker 1: No no charges there, none of them. We just saw
Speaker 1: what yesterday. Yesterday a day before m YPD punch and
Speaker 1: beat up a nineteen year old girl and Eric Adams
Speaker 1: came up and said, oh, the officers show great restraints.
Speaker 1: Or a few months ago, n YPD shot an eighteen
Speaker 1: year old in the head because he ran through a
Speaker 1: red light and Eric Adams defended that too. So you
Speaker 1: see what I'm saying even if you were if you
Speaker 1: wanted to go with the bad apple narrative, let's preturn. Okay,
Speaker 1: so we got thousands, we got thousands of bad Apples,
Speaker 1: and our police departments, the police unions, are media, are politicians,
Speaker 1: and everybody in power says no, they're not bad. So
Speaker 1: then what the right? Yeah, if you lost the messaging war, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: and then to to think about like how can we
Speaker 1: use media to change that? Like how can we change
Speaker 1: that in movies and TV? And um, well yeah, as
Speaker 1: we talked about, it's just like so racialized. Um. Currently,
Speaker 1: out of the twenty seven shows that the study covered,
Speaker 1: the show runners were white men. Out of writers, more
Speaker 1: than seventy percent were white, and only nine percent were black.
Speaker 1: So the people who are creating these shows largely don't
Speaker 1: have any experience with the with the system that we're
Speaker 1: dealing with in this country. And so in terms of
Speaker 1: just what we can do to change it, I mean,
Speaker 1: one option is just the personal option to not watch
Speaker 1: shows that depict cops as heroes, as good people, as
Speaker 1: people who are not violent and coercive. And this could
Speaker 1: also be you know, a signal to networks that we
Speaker 1: don't want to watch cops who are portrayed like this.
Speaker 1: Another idea is to cancel TV shows with cops in general,
Speaker 1: and this has actually been happening, like the series Cops,
Speaker 1: which ran for around thirty years, was was canceled. I
Speaker 1: believe in um and some other networks have also cut
Speaker 1: police reality series. But a lot of people are also saying,
Speaker 1: is that actually came back in September of last year
Speaker 1: when people aren't paying and they announced it. Yeah, they slowly,
Speaker 1: like on Fox Nation, like their Live Pet and they
Speaker 1: just they changed the name to Live Poet too, like
Speaker 1: on Patrol or some other dumb euphemistic or not even
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, let's say they fold us another sectly
Speaker 1: they do with propaganda two and enough. People don't call
Speaker 1: it out, but what they love to do when they
Speaker 1: portray jails and prisons in any of these shows, they
Speaker 1: had a lot of white people. There were a lot
Speaker 1: of white people in the prisons, in the jail, so
Speaker 1: it looks people think the system was no fucking way.
Speaker 1: Rikers is New York City. Think about how big New
Speaker 1: York City is. Rikers is over ninety five percent black
Speaker 1: and brown. Jesus like, it's not it's not this, like
Speaker 1: I saw this actually and that I was watching. I
Speaker 1: was not watching the Flash anymore because the Flash is terrible. Man,
Speaker 1: I was watching a video about why the Flash isn't
Speaker 1: good anymore. And like and the season they got they got,
Speaker 1: they got the Flash in jail now, which is in
Speaker 1: bullshit and the river Dale did this nonsense too, but
Speaker 1: the flashes in jail and he all around the jail
Speaker 1: with none but white people. Whole jail just full of
Speaker 1: a white people and correct right slip ship or when
Speaker 1: inventing did y'all watch inventing Annal when that came out
Speaker 1: on Netflix? Last was the last year and this year
Speaker 1: all the time, it's all you know, with the with
Speaker 1: the that's what we writers, whole nice white, clean environment
Speaker 1: just like some white girls chilling out what that's what
Speaker 1: look like you didn't even get into things. A bunch
Speaker 1: of white woods, a bunch of adasaurkins at wrikers know
Speaker 1: and like that is not that is not the case,
Speaker 1: but they make it look like that because the people
Speaker 1: become people become so so comfortable would have been. It
Speaker 1: also becomes ingrained, you don't question question, and there's so
Speaker 1: much too. It's even to me the scariest parts are
Speaker 1: the scariest things when it comes to developing our consciousness,
Speaker 1: our racial shared consciousness as as a society isn't what
Speaker 1: they explicitly tell us. That's what they don't and we
Speaker 1: don't pay attention to it. It's like when you think
Speaker 1: about the fact that the criminal system, it's a legal system,
Speaker 1: is called the criminal justice system. That's intentional, that's inherently intentional,
Speaker 1: because if you're the first thing you learn, you associate
Speaker 1: justice your whole concept of justice, it's criminal prosecution. That's
Speaker 1: where you know what I mean, that's what it is.
Speaker 1: You talked that from the very beginning. Yes, for you,
Speaker 1: justice is like people don't even think of any other
Speaker 1: way to respond or that there are other ways to
Speaker 1: respond to anything or crime or problems. Right, justice is
Speaker 1: police arrest you and Pitt the bad guy in jail.
Speaker 1: That's what justice is the people. And then never even
Speaker 1: occurred to you to question. And I realized that in
Speaker 1: college when my professor I was you know, running on
Speaker 1: like I usually do about the system being racist, and
Speaker 1: you had to yeah, yeah, And my basist advisor, who's
Speaker 1: a white lady, who was just like, um, you know,
Speaker 1: you sound like you'd be a person who would be
Speaker 1: into abolition, and I was mean abolition, getting rid of
Speaker 1: the prison altogether, no jail. Like even as even as
Speaker 1: a person who thought the criminal system, I knew the
Speaker 1: criminal system is racist, is and just I was taught
Speaker 1: like to think of the criminal system like how you
Speaker 1: think of water and air and oxygen, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Even civil society, like you think you have
Speaker 1: to like that as a as a foundation that must
Speaker 1: exist and you have to work from there on. How
Speaker 1: do I correct this thing rather than the thing being
Speaker 1: bad because you're taught that this like man made institution,
Speaker 1: this is just you know, vital, and that to me
Speaker 1: is a great issue. But I think as far as
Speaker 1: how do we how do we stop seeing it that
Speaker 1: end of the day they do would be like right,
Speaker 1: like media, if you think about it, media, just what
Speaker 1: we're watching, our shows, how things are cast has changed
Speaker 1: drastically present day to what it was ship just ten
Speaker 1: years ago. Let alone even as a kid. There's so
Speaker 1: much things that's change just because we've changed as the society.
Speaker 1: How we respond to what you think? All these things
Speaker 1: verse ensemble casts they keep getting and stuff is because
Speaker 1: they want to you think they diversifying the gossip gossip
Speaker 1: girl in all these shows because they think it's cutest,
Speaker 1: because people respond in a particular way. So if you start,
Speaker 1: you know, calling this out bit shit and data that
Speaker 1: yeah the right bul bitch and moan on Twitter and
Speaker 1: and true social whatever, they be making a noise. But
Speaker 1: the reality is people who want to align their pockets
Speaker 1: will they will start making the corrections in the change
Speaker 1: because you don't want to watch it like that. So
Speaker 1: I think we gotta call out propaganda, but not just
Speaker 1: even in the shows that explicitly have cops. It's the
Speaker 1: way even just the idea of these kinds of systems
Speaker 1: are our hierarchies are putting everything else like. And that's
Speaker 1: what really, to me is the more dangerous all the
Speaker 1: things that you're watching and you don't realize that it's
Speaker 1: like this. It's enforcing the exact same kind of dynamic
Speaker 1: and like power relatetions looking without the explicit police right exactly, Well,
Speaker 1: align me. It's been such a pleasure having you. We
Speaker 1: gotta have you back. This is yeah, truly an amazing guest,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I could talk to you for
Speaker 1: a whole day. But what where can people find you,
Speaker 1: follow you experience. You find me on Twitter at miss
Speaker 1: A Laren m s O l U R I N.
Speaker 1: I'm back on a social media I have a sub
Speaker 1: stack named lar Natty. I love it. Where right my
Speaker 1: essays every month and I'll be on the hill on Tuesday. Right,
Speaker 1: Thank you y'all amazing? Uh? And is there a tweet
Speaker 1: or some other work of social media you've been enjoying. Honestly,
Speaker 1: it's foolishness, Jack, There's there was a tweet. There's a
Speaker 1: Twitter thread right now like what's your favorite moment? And
Speaker 1: reality TV and the quote tweets they are gold. I
Speaker 1: am just going through flavor of love. I love New
Speaker 1: York Heaven. Okay, listen, Yeah, I have a theory that
Speaker 1: January six happened because you didn't check that white girl
Speaker 1: who was talking about her neck all black um buck
Speaker 1: Wild you know what. You know what though, we let
Speaker 1: buck Wild cook to our own detrimenty, you know listen.
Speaker 1: So I watched it the other day and I was like, yo,
Speaker 1: New York was I had of her time, you know,
Speaker 1: with just like not being with the ship like New
Speaker 1: York was like, don't talk like she was really ahead
Speaker 1: at a time, and I think back and I was like, why,
Speaker 1: I feel like you me might not even realize, like,
Speaker 1: why are you you hating up? While watching that, I
Speaker 1: was like, I was like, yeah, it's so weird. How
Speaker 1: differently I responded like see right now, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know when you work with that was a gab gab. Yes,
Speaker 1: and Tricia pleasure having you as always? Where can people
Speaker 1: find you? Follow you? And is their tweet you've been enjoying? Okay,
Speaker 1: so I don't have social media, so I always act
Speaker 1: like I'm surprised by this. I've still been enjoying the
Speaker 1: few at my window though, And you can listen to
Speaker 1: more of my work at People Place Power. It's a
Speaker 1: podcast I made about activists around the world. It's on Spotify,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts and everywhere else. Amazing Miles, We can people
Speaker 1: find you what tweet you've been enjoying? Twitter, Instagram at
Speaker 1: Miles of Gray. You like basketball, check out Miles and
Speaker 1: Jack got Bad Mad Boost He is not Bad Boost
Speaker 1: These Mad Bad Basketball podcast in the league is we're
Speaker 1: so so close, so close to the league starting up again.
Speaker 1: And also if you like terrible reality reality shows, and
Speaker 1: we'd check me and Sophia Alexander out on four twenty
Speaker 1: Day Fiance, where we just you know, talk about our
Speaker 1: favorite mess of a show, ninety day Fiance. Okay, some
Speaker 1: tweets that I like. First, up is actually it's really
Speaker 1: just the first one worm adderall at Underscore Underscore, Mary
Speaker 1: Boy tweeted our monster truck rallies a competition or is
Speaker 1: it just like a monster truck recital? How do we
Speaker 1: look at that? Is there a competition? Uh? And then
Speaker 1: at Pop a Piece Shoe tweeted Biden and the Dam's
Speaker 1: got exactly five percent salty er and the Republicans started
Speaker 1: acting like an Italian football player faking the injury, rolling
Speaker 1: around on the ground holding their ankles. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: They called this fashions we are told, but come on now,
Speaker 1: you can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien
Speaker 1: and I don't know, somebody depths of Internet Archive is
Speaker 1: retweeting some interesting stuff from like Paul. I'm scared of
Speaker 1: hackers because this is from November two thousand three. They
Speaker 1: hack into ns into NASA five percent, they steal things
Speaker 1: four percent, they are violent sociopaths four percent they use
Speaker 1: amphetamines and speed seven percent. They help Osama bin lad
Speaker 1: In fourteen percent, they're un American five percent they smell bad. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's just fun to take a little snapshot of
Speaker 1: how stupid we were extremely recently. You can find us
Speaker 1: on Twitter at daily Zekeeist. We're at d Daily Zeitgeist
Speaker 1: on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page on a
Speaker 1: website daily zeitgeys dot com where we post our episodes
Speaker 1: on our footnoes, so where we link off to the
Speaker 1: information that we talked about in today's episode, as well
Speaker 1: as a song that we think you might enjoy Myleso
Speaker 1: song to be Kime Couple, my Da this one. So
Speaker 1: we're gonna go out on a nice little instrumental track
Speaker 1: from Ivy Lab. It's called All Days Swimming. Look, it's
Speaker 1: hot out there. Everybody just dream of just swimming all day,
Speaker 1: cooling your body off in the water. The beat is
Speaker 1: very you know, it's it's it's it's stripty. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It sounds like you're you're at a pool party, but
Speaker 1: maybe on an alien planet. This is all Days with swimming.
Speaker 1: They should have called a d alien pool party, but
Speaker 1: their loss. The Daily Zekee is the production of iHeart
Speaker 1: Radio for more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. Us gonna do it for us
Speaker 1: this morning, but we're back this afternoon to tell you
Speaker 1: what is trending, and we will tell yelled then by
Speaker 1: Im