Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season two hundred, episode
Speaker 1: five of Dire Day Introduction of I Heart Radio. It
Speaker 1: is the season finale of season two hundred, and as promised,
Speaker 1: we did absolutely nothing to recognize this incredible achievement by
Speaker 1: the Daily Zigeys team. But shout out to DJ Dani'll
Speaker 1: shout out to super producers on a hosnie a justin
Speaker 1: uh dramas, everybody who carrying stump yeah back in that day.
Speaker 1: So this is a podcast where we take a deep
Speaker 1: dive into America's shared consciousness. Today is kind of a
Speaker 1: special format, one where we take a deep dive into
Speaker 1: America's share consciousness on a specific subject. We did a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks back, and people seem to really enjoy it.
Speaker 1: And I feel like this is a subject that you
Speaker 1: can't even really do a deep dive because we don't
Speaker 1: know ship about it for the most part. So we'll
Speaker 1: talking about that. But it is Friday, September three. My
Speaker 1: name is Jack O'Brien a K and he was blinded
Speaker 1: by the Zi, chugging do like a choke with Miles,
Speaker 1: smoking blunts all night. Blinded by the ZI. All right,
Speaker 1: that's it. That is courtesy of Chauncey Yonders, A fun
Speaker 1: name to say, Christian uh huh, A little sisty Chrish.
Speaker 1: And I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my
Speaker 1: co host, Mr Miles Gray. Miles Gray k Hideo NoHo
Speaker 1: a k A. Smoke Gray, Old Tawny a k a.
Speaker 1: The lothario of Lancer Sham lookout North Hollywood because he's here.
Speaker 1: And just you know, I'm just adding new culturally relevant
Speaker 1: a k of Lancas, Lancersham. You know, people, if you
Speaker 1: don't know lakershim, you're not North Hollywood. That's true. And
Speaker 1: is it good to smoke Gray? I feel like that
Speaker 1: would be bad weed. Well, you know that's the problem
Speaker 1: of trying to create puns out of you know, so
Speaker 1: you could get a little narrow you smoked that ship
Speaker 1: that makes your vision go black and white and great?
Speaker 1: All right, well, Miles, we are thrilled to be joined
Speaker 1: by a nationally recognized expert on cyber security, privacy, identity,
Speaker 1: that fraud, and personal finance and the host of the
Speaker 1: podcast With the Hack. He's the former director of the
Speaker 1: New Jersey Division of Consumer Affairs. He's appeared on just
Speaker 1: all the TV shows that today show, g m A,
Speaker 1: all the shows on radio at MPR, ABC News, Bloomberg,
Speaker 1: and now on our Second Rate podcast. Please welcome the brilliant,
Speaker 1: the distinguished Adam Webbing. Welcome back. You'll flatter me. Miles.
Speaker 1: Is great to be with you. Thank you for join.
Speaker 1: We're thrilled to have you. Adam k Levin, I should
Speaker 1: have said, is that do you put the middle initiation?
Speaker 1: That that because there is an author, there is the
Speaker 1: own of High Times, there are a series of lawyers,
Speaker 1: and then there's that guy with the E at the
Speaker 1: end of his name that fronts for some small band
Speaker 1: called Maroon five people. And I get great restaurant reservations
Speaker 1: because of that until I show up and it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: they're like you're lying. You're like, no, I'm not. Just
Speaker 1: I once I once was divided on the show in
Speaker 1: San Francisco many years ago, and they said, and now
Speaker 1: we have Adam Levine from Run five. Then I went, uh, no,
Speaker 1: it's Adam Levin from Identities at nine on one and
Speaker 1: they went, no, no, come on, you know you're Adam Levine.
Speaker 1: I said, no, I'm not. They said, how does it
Speaker 1: field have groupies? I said, well, there aren't really too
Speaker 1: many cyberg ruvies. And uh then they said, okay, where
Speaker 1: are you Where are you speaking to us from right now?
Speaker 1: I said San Francisco and they said, see you approved
Speaker 1: our point because Maroon five is appearing tonight in San Francisco.
Speaker 1: So they oh, it was a radio show, and they like,
Speaker 1: so was a radio show. So I like freaked out.
Speaker 1: I hung up call because I wanted to make sure
Speaker 1: I called the right show. And they went, he's back
Speaker 1: You see that Levin boy, he just messes around with you,
Speaker 1: called back in and saying moves like Jagger for them,
Speaker 1: And I do have moods like Jagger, but yeah, my
Speaker 1: son's name is Jaker. So hey, you know I'm trying
Speaker 1: you go. I just like that these hosts so badly
Speaker 1: needed you to be Atam Levine from my Room five.
Speaker 1: That nothing, nothing that was presented to them that She's like,
Speaker 1: oh man, that's great. Man. You sound a little bit different.
Speaker 1: But what's it like having groupies? Even though you said
Speaker 1: you're not out yet, are you? Are you sure you're
Speaker 1: not at a Lavin? Maybe you are, Adam Levin. It
Speaker 1: just somehow escaped your consciousness. Yeah, They're like, oh, this
Speaker 1: guy he's such a joker this, Adam. Yeah. Wow, We've
Speaker 1: got to do that sometime, just intentionally booked the wrong
Speaker 1: guest and just interview them the entire time as though
Speaker 1: they're the other person, strong and wrong. You gotta respect it,
Speaker 1: all right. Well, Adam, we are going to talk to
Speaker 1: you about cybersecurity, your area of expertise. We are also
Speaker 1: in the third act going to bring on super producer
Speaker 1: an A. Hosnier to do a streaming corner about White
Speaker 1: Lotus now that everybody has had a chance to see it,
Speaker 1: so we will let you go for that so as
Speaker 1: not to waste your UM time. I think it's the
Speaker 1: word I'm looking for. Um. All right, before we get
Speaker 1: into our dumb questions, we have a set of dumb
Speaker 1: questions we always ask our guests at the top, starting
Speaker 1: off with what is something from your search history? Well,
Speaker 1: of course, the first thing I'm obligated to tell you,
Speaker 1: as being somebody in cybersecurity, I don't have a search
Speaker 1: history because I use VPNs. But that being said, where
Speaker 1: it's something from my search history, it would be things
Speaker 1: about upcoming movies. Okay, And I was very sad to
Speaker 1: learn that they have now moved Top Gun Maverick to
Speaker 1: next year as opposed to this year. But they put
Speaker 1: Fishing Impossible up to November, so there's some hope. Oh
Speaker 1: I thought they moved it Mission Impossible till later in
Speaker 1: the year, so well they they did. They I was
Speaker 1: thinking about they moved Tom Cruise from oblivion back up
Speaker 1: to something. So he's coming in November Mission Impossible seven.
Speaker 1: Not that I'm the pr guy for Mission Impossible seven,
Speaker 1: but hey, you're really looking forward to Top Gun though.
Speaker 1: I really was that that show. It's just it's one
Speaker 1: where if you if you watch the cinematography and listen
Speaker 1: to music, it's like the planes are actually dancing to
Speaker 1: the music. Pretty insane. Yeah, I need to actually I
Speaker 1: need to watch it like that now, Like, hey, you
Speaker 1: like this fighter jet music video? Top Good? What if
Speaker 1: something you think is overrated? Home cooking? After being locked
Speaker 1: in a house during the pandemic for eighteen months? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're ready to get out, ready to get out, although
Speaker 1: we're in Arizona so we're out right. What's the home
Speaker 1: cooking situation for you? What is it sort of the
Speaker 1: thing that you kind of made the same like six
Speaker 1: things or three things, and like it's like that or
Speaker 1: what you know, give me a glimpse into the into
Speaker 1: Adam's kitchen. Oh well, Adam's kitchen is basically burnt chicken. Uh.
Speaker 1: My son loves chicken nuggets. He likes anything chicken related. Not.
Speaker 1: He's one of the few kids in the world that
Speaker 1: hates cheese, hates chips, doesn't eat bread. So we we
Speaker 1: have to do things in a healthy side. My wife
Speaker 1: is a is a fitness competitor, so clearly you can
Speaker 1: tell I'm not. But wait, what's so? What kind of
Speaker 1: fitness competitions? What's the fitness competitors? Bikini five fitness competition
Speaker 1: And as a matter of fact, coming up this weekend,
Speaker 1: she's actually competing in Pittsburgh because she is trying to
Speaker 1: get her probok. Is that a like modeling thing? Is
Speaker 1: that a fitness as in like they have to do
Speaker 1: feats of fitness or it's just they have to actually
Speaker 1: live through a really difficult fitness training regimen as well
Speaker 1: as a very strict kind of diet where they're everything
Speaker 1: is weighed and it can only be a certain amount
Speaker 1: of grams of this and that, and it has to
Speaker 1: be starch and protein, and it's really tough and she
Speaker 1: like we go out to restaurants. She she takes her
Speaker 1: own meal with her and it's a it's a real commitment.
Speaker 1: That is tough. I still weigh everything, but it's mostly
Speaker 1: like pounds of cheese. How many pounds of cheese do
Speaker 1: I want to put on my na I generally tend
Speaker 1: to weigh myself often have learned that it's like the
Speaker 1: old thing. Insanity is doing the same things every the
Speaker 1: same way, except expecting a different result. So I'm insane
Speaker 1: when it comes to that because there is no effort result.
Speaker 1: What restaurant are you a fan of chain restaurant? Well,
Speaker 1: I can tell you that my son is obsessed with
Speaker 1: Panda Express, who isn't and the other The other night
Speaker 1: we went to Panda Express and his favorite rapper is
Speaker 1: post Malone and so he post Alone comes on the
Speaker 1: radio sings new a song and Jagger is eating his
Speaker 1: Panda Express in my car. He he pushes the car
Speaker 1: seat back and he goes, Daddy, life doesn't get any
Speaker 1: better than Thisanda Express. Yeah, simple, simple, it's the simple things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh man, yeah, Panda Express. Uh. I I had a
Speaker 1: run where I think my blood type was orange chicken
Speaker 1: because it I there was like a you know, like
Speaker 1: when you're a kid, like you'll just you'll get stuck
Speaker 1: on eating one thing because you think it's like cool,
Speaker 1: and like that's the thing you gotta do, like that's
Speaker 1: your identity. And my god, orange chicken was that for me?
Speaker 1: For sure? Same thing for him. So you guys are
Speaker 1: kindred spirits. I'm just right there with the youth of America.
Speaker 1: What if something you think is underrated? Now I have
Speaker 1: to sort of escape back into my cyber background. But
Speaker 1: underrated is the whole concept of cyber hygiene, or let's say,
Speaker 1: password managers are underrated. And the other thing, because I know,
Speaker 1: you know, you get into very current affairs. Disinformation and
Speaker 1: misinformation is extremely underrated. That it is entirely dangerous. And
Speaker 1: I mean the amount of time and effort in Vitrey
Speaker 1: all that's the cause of misinformation and disinformation, whether it
Speaker 1: be the election or the pandemic or a whole host
Speaker 1: of other things, or Democrats eating babies, these kinds of things.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of disinformation. That that is, it's underrated,
Speaker 1: it's dangerous. People are not paying enough attention to it,
Speaker 1: and it could it can cause a great deal of harm.
Speaker 1: Do you think that we sort of look at it
Speaker 1: in this way where like when I hear that, I go, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I know it's bad because I know, like
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of the lines were drawing to
Speaker 1: a lot of societal friction is because of misinformation. But
Speaker 1: what are sort of the ways you think that we're
Speaker 1: not actually considering aside from the overt examples of how
Speaker 1: disinformation misinformation is manifesting into Well, the problem is it's
Speaker 1: like you have to think of it like a blob
Speaker 1: and it just kind of sucks everything in and you
Speaker 1: have a significant percentage of the population that will buy
Speaker 1: into it for whatever reason, and it's almost like it's
Speaker 1: it's cult culture, right, and uh, it feeds on itself.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you go back to I won't name
Speaker 1: the particular media outlet, but you know their definition of
Speaker 1: a fact is one host says some thing, and then
Speaker 1: three other people echo it, and then people continue to
Speaker 1: echo it, and all of a sudden, it bleeds out,
Speaker 1: It trickles down, as it were, into the community of
Speaker 1: people who are relatively like minded, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: that's a fact, right, And I mean, yeah, with Fox,
Speaker 1: like a lot of the talking points that they get
Speaker 1: actually come from like they're basically field tested in the
Speaker 1: world of talk radio, and they see like what is
Speaker 1: resonating with people, and then those like bubble up to yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it's and and these are the people that say,
Speaker 1: you know, I can't believe that people follow polls. You
Speaker 1: have to be a leader, which means you follow, you know,
Speaker 1: the north star, whatever it is that you believe in,
Speaker 1: and that's how you lead. And the problem is a
Speaker 1: lot of these guys are feeding on what they're listening
Speaker 1: audience wants to hear as a part. And I've noticed
Speaker 1: some posts that have gone from radio to podcasting, and
Speaker 1: you'll notice that their political alignment starts to slide over
Speaker 1: in order to be appealing to the people that they
Speaker 1: think will most support whatever they say or do. It's
Speaker 1: like almost this way where before punditry or people who
Speaker 1: had opinions and and and people that were interested in
Speaker 1: those people, it was like they were actually just speaking
Speaker 1: their perspective that they felt was their truth. But now
Speaker 1: you're right, there's so much triangulating where it's like, well,
Speaker 1: what is what's an audience gonna want? You know, like,
Speaker 1: let's I'm not going to consider what I think is
Speaker 1: ethical or true. It's more about how can I experience
Speaker 1: success by saying whatever I need to? And then I'm
Speaker 1: that just accelerates things even further. And I mean, what
Speaker 1: what an audience want wants is essentially like the now
Speaker 1: now the number one concern for all media, whether it
Speaker 1: be social media or not, because like, you have algorithms
Speaker 1: that are encouraging engagement over like any sort of evaluation
Speaker 1: of you know, inherent value or truth, and so it's
Speaker 1: all just a society that is like kind of engineered
Speaker 1: down to the most cellular level to just create engagement
Speaker 1: and excitement without any kind of recognition or you know,
Speaker 1: relationship to to the truth, right mhm. And and the
Speaker 1: truth changes unfortunately weakly, so therefore it's not a truth,
Speaker 1: you know. And I try to teach my little guy,
Speaker 1: is that a fact is a fact, right it? And
Speaker 1: now there can be interpretations of a fact, there can
Speaker 1: be opinions of that particular fact, but a fact is
Speaker 1: a fact. There's no such thing as an alternative fact,
Speaker 1: you know, Just like when you have people saying, well,
Speaker 1: the only reason why the government wants us to wear
Speaker 1: masks is because it wants to control us, and that's
Speaker 1: how they control us. They mandate that we marry, we
Speaker 1: wear these things, and it's kind of like no, right, Well,
Speaker 1: and then they go, well it changed, because the answer
Speaker 1: is because science has found that things change. Studies have
Speaker 1: determined that what may have worked at one point isn't
Speaker 1: working now, or it may not have worked, but because
Speaker 1: of a combination vaccine and other things, it may be
Speaker 1: working now. So and it's so frustrating to be in
Speaker 1: a place where there, you know, again, spirited debate is
Speaker 1: a wonderful and healthy thing, but when it it disintegrates
Speaker 1: into name calling and hostility and beating people down for
Speaker 1: an opinion, that's that's outrageous, and that's that's not kind
Speaker 1: of the world we want our kids to grow up in,
Speaker 1: especially when you can't even debate things where both, you know,
Speaker 1: both are the parties involved in a debate can't agree
Speaker 1: on what like firm like actual solid ground is for
Speaker 1: them to even debate upon. Well. I was in Washington
Speaker 1: a few i guess about three years ago, and we
Speaker 1: were talking about different pieces of legislation that we're coming up,
Speaker 1: and I was speaking to the majority staff of one
Speaker 1: particular House Committee and they said, well, we hope to
Speaker 1: have something coming up on security in the next year
Speaker 1: or so. I said, yeah, don't don't rush, guys. And
Speaker 1: then uh and they said and I said, what about privacy?
Speaker 1: And they said, now, we can't a bigreue or what
Speaker 1: privacy is, so there won't be anything on privacy. What
Speaker 1: do you think the divide is like that you see
Speaker 1: on what people think privacy is, you know, in terms
Speaker 1: of how one party might observe it and how another
Speaker 1: might well, you know, and again I am finding a
Speaker 1: little bit more a unanimity of opinion about privacy. But
Speaker 1: you know, we're living in and I know this sounds
Speaker 1: are welly and almost but we're living in a surveillance economy.
Speaker 1: Forgetting even the whole issue that Edward Snowdon brought up
Speaker 1: about a surveillance society is we're living in a surveillance
Speaker 1: economy where we are surrounded by almost thirty billion Internet
Speaker 1: of Things devices that are tracking sending information back to
Speaker 1: manufacturers or sometimes that information is diverted to the bad
Speaker 1: guys and everything. We just to the point where you
Speaker 1: feel like you're having a conversation with someone about a
Speaker 1: subject you've never talked about before. You haven't even searched
Speaker 1: it on the internet, you think, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: it starts popping up on Facebook ads, so people do,
Speaker 1: my phone is listening to me? And and the issue
Speaker 1: is nobody really knows for sure, although I have found
Speaker 1: several times when all of a sudden, series goes hello
Speaker 1: and it's like, wait a minute, I didn't call your
Speaker 1: name right, and so it's it's it's it's very concerning
Speaker 1: because you really don't know who he is listening or not.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember. I guess it was
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago where Samsung issued an advisory
Speaker 1: that you needed to disable the microphone feature of your
Speaker 1: big screen TV if you didn't want it listening to you,
Speaker 1: because it's like, oops, it's listening. So you know, in
Speaker 1: that kind of environment, we have a lot of things
Speaker 1: that are taking note at a granular level of anything
Speaker 1: and everything we're looking for. Like remember the story about
Speaker 1: the father who found out that his child was pregnant
Speaker 1: because Walmart or either Target or Walmart sent to their
Speaker 1: house flyers on diapers, and he was going, why would
Speaker 1: they send stuff about diapers to our house? And it
Speaker 1: was like he found out that she had been searching, right,
Speaker 1: and she didn't ask for it to show up, but
Speaker 1: it did. Like based on your based on your activity,
Speaker 1: we are presuming you are pregnant. Now, if you really
Speaker 1: want to mess someone up, use their computer and do
Speaker 1: something like well, there is there a case that I
Speaker 1: was involved in a few years ago where two neighbors
Speaker 1: hated each other and when one neighbor was out of town,
Speaker 1: the other neighbors snuck overs, sat on his front porch,
Speaker 1: hacked into his computer and then had that go to
Speaker 1: child pornography sites and then called the police. And the
Speaker 1: police came and arrested this poor guy, and it took
Speaker 1: him six months to convince the police that he didn't
Speaker 1: do it. One't him, He wasn't searching for that. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I've I've heard it said that there's like
Speaker 1: growing pains at the start of every sort of media era,
Speaker 1: Like newspapers had all sorts of you know, yellow journalism,
Speaker 1: and then like eventually like they sort of we're able
Speaker 1: to regulate things. Do you see any version of this
Speaker 1: where they like we're able to put the genie back
Speaker 1: in the bottle with regards to like misinformation and like
Speaker 1: this new kind of social media like online media landscape. Well,
Speaker 1: the danger you have with that is that people will
Speaker 1: of course, you will live through the whole cancer culture argument.
Speaker 1: And you know, you saw the fewer that happened when
Speaker 1: Trump was taken off all of the social media platforms
Speaker 1: and claiming that its censorship and uh. And the problem
Speaker 1: is that when you have these platforms saying you know,
Speaker 1: this information needs to be fact checked or there's something
Speaker 1: wrong with this, don't believe it, and then you get
Speaker 1: people screaming about how the big platforms have made a
Speaker 1: decision as to the particular kinds of political philosophies they
Speaker 1: will accept or not accept, and they get caught up
Speaker 1: in the middle of this. And now you have Congress
Speaker 1: talking about regulating big tech, and it should be regulated
Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons. But the problem with misinformation
Speaker 1: and labeling it as misinformation is you still have a
Speaker 1: significant percentage of the population that refuses to believe that
Speaker 1: it is misinformation and disinformation, even when you can show
Speaker 1: them concrete proof that it's not true. Right, Yeah, that
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. And you know the perfect example is the election.
Speaker 1: I mean, you've had sixty courts, you've had every major
Speaker 1: political figure who has any sense of reason, even people
Speaker 1: on you know, both sides of the aisle of come
Speaker 1: down and say it's over. And you still have the
Speaker 1: cyber ninas in Arizona. And and now there was an
Speaker 1: issue brought up with the if you know, the conference
Speaker 1: that was held by the Pillow Man in Wisconsin where
Speaker 1: it was all about election disinformation relative to they stole
Speaker 1: the election or not. And they were passing around examples
Speaker 1: of software that was being used by the voting machine company,
Speaker 1: and it's voting machine software companies, election system companies, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, now this information about algorithms and
Speaker 1: other things that were legitimate is now out there, and
Speaker 1: now they're talking about the fact that they're going to
Speaker 1: have to replace a lot of the software is simply
Speaker 1: because it's been exposed by people who were simply trying
Speaker 1: to discredit the election results with absolutely no knowledge of
Speaker 1: how no knowledge. Right, All right, let's take a quick
Speaker 1: break and we'll come right back and continue this conversation,
Speaker 1: and we're back. Uh, And Adam, you mentioned that the
Speaker 1: idea of a surveillance economy, that we live in a
Speaker 1: surveillance economy, which is something we've touched on briefly, but
Speaker 1: could you speak a little bit more about that, and
Speaker 1: like how that kind of I mean that the thing
Speaker 1: that really kind of got me to get my mind
Speaker 1: around it is that it really robs you of your
Speaker 1: free will essentially, like you're no longer an autonomous person
Speaker 1: if you live in a surveillance economy that it knows
Speaker 1: this much about you, and it's like programming your day basically,
Speaker 1: and you're you're you're a thousand percent right about that.
Speaker 1: And the other problem is that you know, people unfortunately
Speaker 1: are all too willing to fling as much information about
Speaker 1: themselves as possible out there, whether it's on social media
Speaker 1: or if they say, you know, you can get great
Speaker 1: deals if you give us all of your contact information,
Speaker 1: like the loyalty programs, and they they like feed it
Speaker 1: by saying, look at how much money you save by
Speaker 1: having become a member of our loyalty pro you say so.
Speaker 1: And there have been surveys of people where they will say,
Speaker 1: I am really really concerned about privacy. But then when
Speaker 1: they go, but would you be willing to give up
Speaker 1: your privacy for a really great deal, and a greater
Speaker 1: percentage of people say, sure, I'd like to do that.
Speaker 1: You know, you know, in one sense people love customized ads,
Speaker 1: but in another sense, they don't understand what you're contributing
Speaker 1: of you in order to put yourself in a position
Speaker 1: where they will send you customize ads. Right, can you
Speaker 1: speak about, like what what do they specifically give up?
Speaker 1: Because I think privacy like has certain connotations, and I
Speaker 1: think a lot in a lot of ways, we lack
Speaker 1: the imagination to like see the negative consequences. Can you
Speaker 1: like speak about that a little bit, like any any
Speaker 1: instances where it really like was extreme? Oh? Sure. There
Speaker 1: is a terrific educator in Canada who used to be
Speaker 1: the Information and Privacy Commissioner for Ontario. Her name is
Speaker 1: and Cavukian, and she came up with the whole concept
Speaker 1: of privacy by design, which is that products and services
Speaker 1: are designed at the core where privacy and security are
Speaker 1: the core of them, as opposed to all we want
Speaker 1: to do is make something work and then we'll figure
Speaker 1: out privacy and security. For instance, originally electronic health records,
Speaker 1: it was all about let's make it work, as opposed
Speaker 1: to let's make sure that it's actually private and secure.
Speaker 1: And the Internet of Things devices for instant. All those devices,
Speaker 1: whether it's your printer or your computer, your television set,
Speaker 1: your toaster, your refrigerator, all these things that are connected
Speaker 1: now to the internet. The issue is, well, let's make
Speaker 1: it work so it can feedback information, and manufacturers they
Speaker 1: can make it better, they can update where they need to,
Speaker 1: and they don't realize that each one of these things
Speaker 1: is gathering information. There was something a couple of years
Speaker 1: ago known as the smart mattress cover, where if you
Speaker 1: put it on your bed, you can tell when you
Speaker 1: went to sleep, when you woke up. It would be
Speaker 1: able to turn on the heating or the air conditioning,
Speaker 1: depending upon where you were in your sleep cycle. It
Speaker 1: would even be able to ultimately turn on your coffee pot.
Speaker 1: Now you might say, well that's great, that's convenient, but
Speaker 1: all of that data in the hands of the wrong
Speaker 1: person will tell them are you home, are you not?
Speaker 1: Are you sleeping? Are you awake? You know. These are
Speaker 1: the kinds of things and each of these pieces. In
Speaker 1: order to create a successful theft of someone's identity, you
Speaker 1: have to essentially have a mosaic of their lives, and
Speaker 1: each piece of factual data is a a tile in
Speaker 1: that mosaic. So you may not think you're giving up
Speaker 1: much information when you give them your name, your address,
Speaker 1: your cell phone number, your email address. But if you
Speaker 1: think about it, now, your cell phone number is more
Speaker 1: of a personal identifier than even your social Security number.
Speaker 1: I think we have learned that we can trust sleepwear
Speaker 1: providers after Mike Lindell's got nailed it. Miles, you're gonna
Speaker 1: ask a question, I cut you. Oh no, I was
Speaker 1: just in general, right, I mean, you know, I think,
Speaker 1: like most people, I feel that the biggest threat to
Speaker 1: me isn't just a person on the internet, is identity theft.
Speaker 1: So that's like I have a very narrow, sort of
Speaker 1: myopic view of what I think the threats are to me.
Speaker 1: And over the years, I've learned to try and use
Speaker 1: VPNs more because I realized, like, oh, right, like this
Speaker 1: I'm giving up these are that this is the information
Speaker 1: company just want to package and sell and you know,
Speaker 1: make a buck off of me passively. But what are
Speaker 1: the sort of other things that I most people aren't
Speaker 1: really you know, aware of or need to be aware of,
Speaker 1: because I think most people would just say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I I have you know, I have my passwords, different
Speaker 1: and things like that, And only now I feel like,
Speaker 1: maybe in the last six months have I really gotten
Speaker 1: into two factor authentication for certain things. But can you
Speaker 1: kind of just give us, you know, for most of us,
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of our listeners are kind
Speaker 1: of like looking at our own privacy in this very
Speaker 1: narrow way, and I think, you know, I'd love to
Speaker 1: hear sort of what we aren't aware of. Well, I
Speaker 1: think one of the big things people aren't aware of
Speaker 1: is if you ask people, are you worried that you're
Speaker 1: going to get hacked, that you're going to become a
Speaker 1: victim of identity? The majority of the people will tell
Speaker 1: you no, I'm not why because I'm just me. I
Speaker 1: look in the mirror and I see me. Well, you
Speaker 1: may see you when you look in the mirror, but
Speaker 1: when a hacker is looking at you, they see Beyonce
Speaker 1: and jay Z, they or Adam Levine. I mean, you
Speaker 1: got what they want. You've got data, You've got personal
Speaker 1: identifiable information. Or the big thing that a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't really think about is you could be the
Speaker 1: tributary to a larger river, which means it may not
Speaker 1: be about you, but it could be about your spouse,
Speaker 1: your child, Where you work or where you work not
Speaker 1: because of the company, but where you work because that
Speaker 1: company is a service provider or a third party vendor
Speaker 1: to where they really want to get to. So, for example,
Speaker 1: the most iconic breach was Target, and with Target, they
Speaker 1: didn't go in the front door, but hackers did as
Speaker 1: they compromise somebody that worked for the h v A
Speaker 1: C subcontractor of Target and use the access of that
Speaker 1: h v a C subcontractor into the Target systems where
Speaker 1: they then first got port of sale, then they got
Speaker 1: their databases, and then they moved the data out. So
Speaker 1: people have to remember that you are part of an
Speaker 1: ecosystem as it were, and it as You may not
Speaker 1: be the principal thing they're looking for, but you could
Speaker 1: be their gateway to where they really want to go.
Speaker 1: And think about how many people tend, even though they
Speaker 1: may have different passwords, sometimes they tend to use the
Speaker 1: same password in their private life and their work life,
Speaker 1: and which means if you get compromised outside of work,
Speaker 1: that could be the way in. Because what they're looking
Speaker 1: for is credentials. They want to know your user I,
Speaker 1: D and password. And if you think most people's uh,
Speaker 1: use your ideas their email address, and most people's passwords
Speaker 1: are dumb. Password is not a password, And and then
Speaker 1: there were people that no, no no, I have a really
Speaker 1: complex password. Well, what they don't realize is that there's
Speaker 1: a difference between an easily decipherable password like password and
Speaker 1: then a discovered password. And if you think about all
Speaker 1: of the breaches that have occurred for the past few decades,
Speaker 1: then the billions of files containing personal identifiable information in it,
Speaker 1: and the fact that how many sites have you seen?
Speaker 1: If you're just going to have I been pawned, you'll
Speaker 1: see where your email address and passwords have shown up
Speaker 1: based on breaches. You realize that you could have a
Speaker 1: difficult password. But if they put it together with your
Speaker 1: your user I D and then they just start route
Speaker 1: forcing their way into anything they can think of. And
Speaker 1: you'll say, well, why would that affect my work? Everybody
Speaker 1: talks about what they do on LinkedIn. In fact, not
Speaker 1: only that, but not only will they know where you work,
Speaker 1: but LinkedIn makes it so that they can figure out
Speaker 1: everybody else who works with you at work. And that's
Speaker 1: where you get all of these emails coming to people
Speaker 1: that have attachments or links they click on and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, malware is into the company, and
Speaker 1: then the company is now at risk or ransomware gets
Speaker 1: in there, which is kind of the new cool, hip,
Speaker 1: extremely profitable thing that hackers are used, right. I I
Speaker 1: do feel like there's something somewhat unprecedented about like what
Speaker 1: we're facing, right because traditionally power dynamic mix are more
Speaker 1: controllable by the large like established powerful entities, like you
Speaker 1: have the most guns, you have the most bombs, you
Speaker 1: control the bomb and gun making equipment, you have the
Speaker 1: most and richest companies, and that's like unfakeable. But now
Speaker 1: a skilled hacker in a basement can like bring a
Speaker 1: massive corporation to their knees because they've you know, grown
Speaker 1: up there. They're like fourteen, and they've grown up with
Speaker 1: a more advanced vocabulary and understanding of you know, coding
Speaker 1: than older people who built their way up two positions.
Speaker 1: The power in the company is there like an alternate
Speaker 1: model that we're headed for where government and corporations are
Speaker 1: better better able to like kind of use their size
Speaker 1: and power to exert control over the field of cybersecurity. Well,
Speaker 1: it is hoped that they can certainly with the recent
Speaker 1: meetings with the President and the and the big tech
Speaker 1: companies and their commitment to really make billions of dollars
Speaker 1: available in the fight. You know, we're making progress, but
Speaker 1: the problems Government hasn't done enough, business hasn't done enough.
Speaker 1: And frankly, we have to admit as consumers, maybe we
Speaker 1: didn't do enough. And for consumers, we didn't ask for it.
Speaker 1: We're not trained for it. We didn't we don't. Half
Speaker 1: the time, we don't even know what the heck to do.
Speaker 1: But as the CEO of Microsoft said a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago, we now have a shared responsibility where we're
Speaker 1: kind of all in this together. And the problem is
Speaker 1: that you can't just limit it even to one country,
Speaker 1: because you know, it's not like you can put a
Speaker 1: dome over something and say, okay, well, the US is
Speaker 1: secure even though the rest of the world is going crazy.
Speaker 1: You have countries out there that there, without question, their
Speaker 1: goal is to put themselves in a position where other
Speaker 1: countries are either beholden to them or they have access
Speaker 1: into power grids and critical infrastructure and things like that.
Speaker 1: So even if you have an agree, for instance, the
Speaker 1: US had an agreement with China that they were only
Speaker 1: going to be specific areas that hacking would be allowed
Speaker 1: to occur. And you know, after Solar wins and the
Speaker 1: Microsoft hacks and things like that, we we realized that
Speaker 1: that one didn't work in anymore. And you can't even
Speaker 1: talk about mutual assured destruction like you could with nuclear
Speaker 1: war because it's never gonna work that way. And the
Speaker 1: reason is because, again, as you said, as Trump used
Speaker 1: to say, the fourteen year old sitting in his mother's
Speaker 1: basement who weighed four hundred pounds on a mattress could
Speaker 1: bring down a company. Recently, you saw a T mobile
Speaker 1: was hacked by someone who just wanted to see if
Speaker 1: they could do it and didn't realize their security was
Speaker 1: so miserable. And the only way we're gonna get better
Speaker 1: is there has to be a national commitment, first here
Speaker 1: and then international that we are really going to beef
Speaker 1: up our cybersecurity and it's going to be a serious priority,
Speaker 1: and it's not just throwing money at it. If you
Speaker 1: don't create a culture of privacy and security from the
Speaker 1: boardroom down to the mail room and back and forth,
Speaker 1: or if home you're working from home from your living
Speaker 1: room to your home office, if you don't have that
Speaker 1: kind of mindset. It's never gonna it's never gonna work, right,
Speaker 1: This is my dumb question. Can Mr Robot happen? But
Speaker 1: is there a version of this where like a really
Speaker 1: wide scale I guess I think for people to get
Speaker 1: their mind around this like something that I think we've
Speaker 1: seen a lot of. Like even even though they are
Speaker 1: large scale attacks that lose lots of people lots of money,
Speaker 1: they're not like these blanket socially kind of destabilizing, debilitating attacks,
Speaker 1: at least not in the United States. Is that still
Speaker 1: something that's kind of looming out there and it's like,
Speaker 1: is that something that's happened to developed countries? Well? Yeah,
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, the most people would argue
Speaker 1: the most cyber advanced company in the world is Estonia
Speaker 1: because they can take they got taken offline, and in fact,
Speaker 1: we had a conference a few years ago and the
Speaker 1: former president of Estonia came and spoke and they have
Speaker 1: they became a really cyber conscious nation and a cyber
Speaker 1: dedicated nation after that incident, and you know, arguably everything
Speaker 1: they do is really top flight cyber security related within
Speaker 1: the country. So it almost is going to take that
Speaker 1: kind of effort because it is it is scary. Now
Speaker 1: if you want to talk about things that consumers can
Speaker 1: do to better protect themselves or businesses can do, you know,
Speaker 1: happy to do that. I don't know how much time
Speaker 1: that we have for that, but it really also has
Speaker 1: adopting a philosophy and it really works for everybody of
Speaker 1: what I call the three ms because breaches app I'm
Speaker 1: the third certainty and life behind death and taxes. That's
Speaker 1: never going to change. So the issue isn't if but
Speaker 1: when a company is going to get attacked, or a
Speaker 1: consumer is going to suffer a problem, or government agencies
Speaker 1: are going to hit But it's all about minimizing your
Speaker 1: risk of exposure, reducing your attackable surface, monitoring so you
Speaker 1: know as quickly as possible that you have a problem,
Speaker 1: and then managing the damage, having a plan to manage
Speaker 1: the damage. And there are there are things that people
Speaker 1: can absolutely do at the government level, the corporate level,
Speaker 1: and the consumer level, but they have to be kind
Speaker 1: of willing to do it. Is this sort of in
Speaker 1: action around modernizing our ability to defend against cybersecurity kind
Speaker 1: of like just this very American thing that we see
Speaker 1: where it's like, well, we'll do something when it gets
Speaker 1: absolutely horrific enough for us to do something. But we
Speaker 1: can weather these smaller things, even though it's a problem
Speaker 1: that many people are saying we need to be aware of.
Speaker 1: Is that kind of just we're on that similar path
Speaker 1: as it relates to cybersecurity, because I know, yeah, like
Speaker 1: their potential for these kinds of wide scale cyber attacks
Speaker 1: and things seem like they're just over the horizon. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, like you're saying, like you'll talk
Speaker 1: to people in d C and they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna we'll get to that. Yeah, that's that's that's
Speaker 1: on the list. Is it just sort of they're just
Speaker 1: not connected to the real, true sense of urgency. I
Speaker 1: think they are becoming more connected to the truth sense
Speaker 1: of urgency, certainly as insurance rates for cyb reliability insurance skyrocket,
Speaker 1: as insurance companies in some cases are now pulling away
Speaker 1: from reimbursing companies that have been hit with ransomware that
Speaker 1: even to get cyber reliability insurance, you you have to
Speaker 1: go through a living hell in terms of disclosures, and
Speaker 1: you have to mean it. And then of course, in
Speaker 1: addition to whole regulatory issue. You have to face the
Speaker 1: ultimate regulators, the American economy, class action lawsuit attorneys. So, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I think the attitudes are changing. Cybersecurity is
Speaker 1: becoming more a front burner issue. I mean with the
Speaker 1: conferences they had in Washington member the last administration, they
Speaker 1: talked a good game about protecting but at the same
Speaker 1: point they got rid of the cyber coordinator in the
Speaker 1: White House. That there's a lot of things that they
Speaker 1: said that they were going to do that they didn't do.
Speaker 1: And then you had people within the government that took
Speaker 1: their own initiative, like Chris Krebs, who ended up then
Speaker 1: getting fired after the election because he said it was
Speaker 1: a fair election. And they worked really hard, working with
Speaker 1: the States to do everything they could to make sure
Speaker 1: that it was going to be a good and fair election.
Speaker 1: But meanwhile, while everybody was focused on let's protect American
Speaker 1: democracy by making sure we don't have cyber issues with
Speaker 1: the election, the Russian hackers and the Chinese hackers were
Speaker 1: focusing on getting into solar winds, and so it's like,
Speaker 1: look there, so we can go over year and we
Speaker 1: have to understand these are very creative, very sophisticated extremely
Speaker 1: persistent people who are fighting us. And you know, we
Speaker 1: used to we used to do election security the kind
Speaker 1: to company as the sole part of it. And one
Speaker 1: of the areas we would go into smaller states, rural
Speaker 1: counties and say, you are facing off against Russia, and
Speaker 1: you have a county that may have one tech guy
Speaker 1: and and a few people are a little bit about technology,
Speaker 1: but and they're facing off against a incredibly well resourced
Speaker 1: state sponsored hacker whose entire goal is I'm going to
Speaker 1: get into their election system. And so you know that
Speaker 1: that is where you get the lack of balance in
Speaker 1: all of this. And that's why people always have to
Speaker 1: keep in mind we have day jobs. We raise a family,
Speaker 1: were involved in government, we're going to school, were involved
Speaker 1: in philothropic activities. But to these other guys, we are
Speaker 1: their day job, right mm hmmm. We being like the
Speaker 1: cybersecurity community like well, the cyber comunity, you know, and
Speaker 1: we have people who are very focused in the cyber
Speaker 1: security community. And and remember we are very open as
Speaker 1: to what we talk about in this country because we
Speaker 1: have we don't have a national breach notification law, but
Speaker 1: we have fifty four separate jurisdictions that have their own
Speaker 1: laws that impact cybersecurity and cybercurity. Reporting what we're doing
Speaker 1: to China, Russia, Iran other countries like that, you know,
Speaker 1: we're not going to hear because they're not going to
Speaker 1: talk about it for sure, and we're not going to
Speaker 1: talk about what we're doing to them. But I believe
Speaker 1: that a lot of what's going on here is going
Speaker 1: on there. And the US is a great offensive cybersecurity
Speaker 1: country when it comes to any cybersecurity weaponry, as it were,
Speaker 1: whereas on cybersecurity defense, we're not that good yet m hm.
Speaker 1: And the same can be said of Russia and China.
Speaker 1: One of the few countries that is really top flight
Speaker 1: both offensive defensive is Israel because it has to also
Speaker 1: do with the concept of the Iron Dome, which they
Speaker 1: needed because they can't patrol they don't have enough people
Speaker 1: to patrol their borders, and they're surrounded by nations that
Speaker 1: are not necessarily their best friends. So interesting. Well, Adam,
Speaker 1: I feel like we could talk to you about this
Speaker 1: all day, but we definitely should have you back to
Speaker 1: kind of continue this conversation. It's been very, very fascinating
Speaker 1: talking to you about it. Where can people find you
Speaker 1: and follow you. Okay, Well, Adam Levin dot com is
Speaker 1: our our website, which is a sort of destination fight
Speaker 1: site for cybersecurity issues. And also on the podcast What
Speaker 1: the Heck with Adam Levin, which is available anywhere that
Speaker 1: people get podcasts, and we'd like to have you guys
Speaker 1: come on too and we can have some fun with
Speaker 1: you on that. We actually try to take a little
Speaker 1: bit of a lighthearted look. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, as
Speaker 1: someone who was pounded in the Equifax leaks and uh
Speaker 1: and and as a Team Mobile customer, I'm constantly what
Speaker 1: in the world am I like nowhere? I'm like, everything
Speaker 1: I'm I'm been attached to seems to be so vulnerable.
Speaker 1: One thing I meant to ask the earlier. We just
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of time. But like I feel
Speaker 1: like the as we've learned more about like all the
Speaker 1: you know, cookies and tracking software and the like surveillance economy.
Speaker 1: Like the only change I've seen is that now when
Speaker 1: I go to a website, they like make me a
Speaker 1: great like take their cookies. They're like, you, this site
Speaker 1: uses cookies. But if I want to use the internet,
Speaker 1: like I have to agree to it. And it's just
Speaker 1: like basically we got like end user agreements in exchange
Speaker 1: for you know, our knowledge that we're being fucked. Is
Speaker 1: there a solution there? Well, First of all, the reason
Speaker 1: why you see all of these do you accept or
Speaker 1: reject cookies? It's because of the g d p R,
Speaker 1: which is the privacy law that was passed in the
Speaker 1: EU that was for its time actually instilled the most
Speaker 1: advanced law. And now you have the California Consumer Protection Law,
Speaker 1: which is their privacy law. You have a law in Colorado, Virginia,
Speaker 1: and New York that are very you know, forward thinking,
Speaker 1: tough laws, and as a result of that, they're requiring
Speaker 1: anyone who's gathering data in any form to actually make
Speaker 1: disclosures so that people are aware that they're their information
Speaker 1: is let's say, more exposed than they originally thought. And uh,
Speaker 1: it's part of you know, you should know what information
Speaker 1: they're asking for. You should also have the right, which
Speaker 1: is you know, the goal of some of the more
Speaker 1: advanced privacy laws to the right to be forgotten, where
Speaker 1: you can actually delete information from websites. That's what I
Speaker 1: want is like an ability to like toggle like yes
Speaker 1: or no to cookies, but like the version I seem
Speaker 1: to see a lot is just well, you can come
Speaker 1: to this website if you accept that we use cookies.
Speaker 1: Otherwise like get out of here and well, or they'll
Speaker 1: say you can come here, but you know, don't expect
Speaker 1: when you come back that we're going to know who
Speaker 1: you are. And so it's gonna be you're gonna be
Speaker 1: like a guest every time you come. And some of
Speaker 1: them absolutely prefer you not come unless they can suck
Speaker 1: every piece of information out of you they can. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you know that that is at least a change
Speaker 1: that is trying to at least make people more aware
Speaker 1: because for so long again, yeah, I'll do whatever you
Speaker 1: want as long as you give me what I want. Anyways,
Speaker 1: like I said, we can we can talk about this
Speaker 1: all day and we will definitely have to have you back,
Speaker 1: but thank you so much for joining us, and we
Speaker 1: will be back in a moment with super Producer on
Speaker 1: a Hosnie streaming corner. And we're back, and Adam Levin
Speaker 1: has been replaced by super Producer on a Hosni streaming corner. Assholes,
Speaker 1: open your ears. Sorry, Yeah, hard to pivot from that
Speaker 1: very serious conversation about security and privacy and now, the
Speaker 1: pressing issues of our time, the way we distract ourselves
Speaker 1: healthily from that television TV. Although this I feel like
Speaker 1: this show really nailed something about the zeitgeist or just
Speaker 1: I guess America. Oh White Lotus. Yeah, White Lotus show
Speaker 1: definitely always is always nailing as I guess. Hello, Anna Hosnie,
Speaker 1: thank you for joining us. What why why do we
Speaker 1: watch White Lotus? What struck you when you first said
Speaker 1: why are you watching it? What was partning? Well? Okay,
Speaker 1: first I have to do my streaming corner theme song. Okay,
Speaker 1: go go three six seven ten bati d d dude,
Speaker 1: it's a stream in corner. Do do, dude, it's a
Speaker 1: stream in corner. You didn't watch White Lotus, did you?
Speaker 1: You didn't watch it happens last time when you like ill?
Speaker 1: So I missed all that. I was doing my theme song.
Speaker 1: We were just saying that you have delaying because you
Speaker 1: didn't actually watch What Lotus when we asked you about
Speaker 1: Godfather too. Anyway, have ever been more offended than people
Speaker 1: just speaking through my forty five minutes stream of corner
Speaker 1: And we were just so confused. We didn't want to
Speaker 1: get scammed again. No, I was just Um, I was
Speaker 1: what is it when you're like pulling from someone? I
Speaker 1: was pulling my inner Kim Cantrell, Um, I guess before
Speaker 1: we get into the just the talk, I'll just I
Speaker 1: will read what the description of White Lotus is, so
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen it, you understand what we're gonna
Speaker 1: be ranting and raving about. They say from Mike White,
Speaker 1: the creator of HBOS in Lighten The White Lotus is
Speaker 1: a sharp social satire following the exploits of verious employees
Speaker 1: and guests at an exclusive Hawaiian resort over the span
Speaker 1: of one highly transformative week. As darker dynamics emerge with
Speaker 1: each pressing day, this biting, sick episode series gradually reveals
Speaker 1: the complex truths of the seemingly picture perfect travelers, cheerful
Speaker 1: hotel employees, and idyllic locale itself. There it is, and
Speaker 1: another interesting fact, Mike White did in fact go to
Speaker 1: high school or college. I forget with my friend Laurie's wife.
Speaker 1: Really okay to me? That the other thing? We guess
Speaker 1: now we're cooking. He also did he write? He wrote
Speaker 1: School of Rock. He's enlightened with Laura Dern. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but also School of Rock he's okay, stop bringing up
Speaker 1: School of Rock every time. But interesting kind of varied career.
Speaker 1: But this is I don't know, very kind of keenly
Speaker 1: just sharply observed about the one percent, I guess, and
Speaker 1: uh and their relationship to themselves and their world and
Speaker 1: there their leisure, their leisure. I don't know. It was
Speaker 1: how do we get into this? What do we? What
Speaker 1: do we? I mean what I just say so, like,
Speaker 1: I know there's been a lot of think pieces on
Speaker 1: it and all that, but you know, I'm not really
Speaker 1: one that thinks too hard. So I just thought it
Speaker 1: was just like a fun dark comedy that just like
Speaker 1: kind of you know, show that rich white people are
Speaker 1: just like vapid idiot losers. And that's just kind of
Speaker 1: like funny to me. Yea some woman like I'm really simple,
Speaker 1: Like if you're like, look at this rich white woman,
Speaker 1: like she doesn't get that like white men are over,
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's um so like that's all it really
Speaker 1: takes for me. Yeah. Well, I think because a lot
Speaker 1: of people I felt like we're mad because they were
Speaker 1: expecting this show to have some kind of really biting
Speaker 1: sort of commentary on what it was. And I get that,
Speaker 1: maybe you thought because it was like adjacent to something
Speaker 1: really interesting, because throughout this show, like there is this
Speaker 1: juxtaposition of like under standing like what life is like
Speaker 1: for the people of Hawaii, like the relationship that it
Speaker 1: has to the mainland, and like just how like sort
Speaker 1: of the cast system that even annexation has created in
Speaker 1: that sense. But there's also like there's just yeah, this
Speaker 1: dark comedy aspect about it, which just sort of makes
Speaker 1: it palatable. And I in the beginning, I thought maybe
Speaker 1: this was going to be a broader commentary on something
Speaker 1: like that, and in the end it just was really
Speaker 1: just sort of this very more narrowly focused dark comedy.
Speaker 1: So I didn't mind that it didn't have that, because
Speaker 1: I also it was kind of one a very American
Speaker 1: thing where like the show almost was able to like
Speaker 1: observe an issue or like a controversy, but not quite
Speaker 1: have a reckoning with it. So it's just sort of like, damn,
Speaker 1: that's sucking a while. This sort of the vible was
Speaker 1: that the show rather than like, this is why we
Speaker 1: need to really seriously talk about like what it means
Speaker 1: to have annexed the Kingdom of Hawaii. What you know,
Speaker 1: like all these other things like what it means for
Speaker 1: that these power dynamics among all these other people, but
Speaker 1: really it was just a mess Occupy Hawaii, Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: And and the kind of the great part about it
Speaker 1: is that, like it just I kind of liked It's
Speaker 1: like you didn't really try, and I'd rather you just
Speaker 1: didn't try, Like you created humor and the fact that
Speaker 1: like these people were really shitty and you're pointing it out,
Speaker 1: but like they didn't really make that much of an effort,
Speaker 1: and it's like I'd rather than not make an effort
Speaker 1: than make like a half assed effort something, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Trying to be like deep with it,
Speaker 1: but I feel like the commentary was all there like that.
Speaker 1: It definitely didn't end in a satisfying way. But the
Speaker 1: way it ended was that the people who you've kind
Speaker 1: of just been disgusted by the whole time because they
Speaker 1: are just myopically just obsessed with their own privilege and
Speaker 1: like preserving the illusion that they deserve like everything, and
Speaker 1: like fighting anybody who's in the service and service positions,
Speaker 1: like they just get away with it and don't learn
Speaker 1: their lesson. And that's just like that that is how
Speaker 1: it works. Yeah, but didn't that all feel like just
Speaker 1: in the writing like very surface level, Like there were
Speaker 1: a lot of things that they just touched on that
Speaker 1: they very quickly, very like it was just like and
Speaker 1: then they like you know, moved on. Like I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, they'd be like this guy hates the manager
Speaker 1: or whatever. Jake Lacey's character Shane hates Armand. Yeah, Shane
Speaker 1: hates Armand And it's like okay, but we're not really
Speaker 1: going to explain, like explore further like what the funk
Speaker 1: is wrong with Shane and like why, you know, like
Speaker 1: other than him being like, look, I was just born
Speaker 1: into this, okay, like what am I supposed to do?
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, surface level, that's who he is.
Speaker 1: And that's all these people are. They're all surface level people, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe that is Maybe that is the observation. So like
Speaker 1: just to give people an idea, like there's like this tension.
Speaker 1: There's this character Armand, who's like the hotel manager. Then
Speaker 1: there's a couple of Nicole and Mark, which is played
Speaker 1: by Connie Britten and Steve's on, who's like this wealthy
Speaker 1: couple who have brought their kids and one of their
Speaker 1: kids friends with them to just kind of like have
Speaker 1: one of those rich people vacations. And then the other story.
Speaker 1: The other storyline involves Tanya, which is Jennifer Coolidge's character,
Speaker 1: who's like mourning the loss of her mother and is
Speaker 1: there to spread ashes alongside this newlywed couple of Shane
Speaker 1: and Rachel, where this journalist has like married rich and
Speaker 1: is kind of having this existential dilemma of like what
Speaker 1: that means for her. Yeah, but I think that there's
Speaker 1: something where when they're on vacation, they are left with
Speaker 1: too much time to think about like just themselves and
Speaker 1: how awful they are, so they like do things like
Speaker 1: create the issue with urmand that that Jake has, or
Speaker 1: Connie Britten, who's like supposed to be a Cheryl Sandburg
Speaker 1: type character, is like at one point like moving furniture
Speaker 1: around the hotel room, like just like doing these things,
Speaker 1: like creating these tasks and these problems too, just like
Speaker 1: focus on to like continue this like sort of endless
Speaker 1: like competition and like urge to prove something that like
Speaker 1: I feel like deep down they know they can't prove,
Speaker 1: which is that they deserve any of this ship. Mm
Speaker 1: hmm what's um. I I want to say that this
Speaker 1: one of the best things about this show, where like
Speaker 1: some of just the individual performances and I don't know,
Speaker 1: I just want to maybe go around and we can
Speaker 1: talk about some of our favorite people from the show.
Speaker 1: I remember when I wasn't watching yet and Anna was
Speaker 1: and You're like, dude to Jennifer Coolidge, it's fucking crushing
Speaker 1: this whole fucking show. And that's when I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm watching because I'm such a Jennifer Coolidge fan. And yeah,
Speaker 1: Tanya's character was called cool dogs. Hey where the cool
Speaker 1: Dogs at? But yeah, like honestly, her performances like fantastic,
Speaker 1: and like her sort of storyline with Belinda and Natasha.
Speaker 1: Rothwell's character was just like this fucking stre range journey
Speaker 1: of like white savior, doom and guilt and like also
Speaker 1: people trying to act like they were being authentic by
Speaker 1: offering or not offering money. It was a it was
Speaker 1: a lot. It was a lot. Yeah, you know, Jennifer Coolidge,
Speaker 1: I mean truly like a legendary actor who like comedic
Speaker 1: actor who never really I think like I feel like
Speaker 1: she gets you know, pigeonholed a lot in what she
Speaker 1: has been offered in the past, and it was like
Speaker 1: really nice to see her like playing this, like just
Speaker 1: showing that she has like this wild range where she
Speaker 1: can play like this, Like what is she? She calls
Speaker 1: herself an alcoholic she comes to like an alcoholic psychopath
Speaker 1: or something like. She's like, under, you're just gonna find
Speaker 1: an alcoholic psychopath And you're like wow, wow, like that
Speaker 1: level of just like madness. You're like, wow, she's kind
Speaker 1: of And the thing is she's nailing it. Like her character,
Speaker 1: every person she interacts with, I immediately feel bad for
Speaker 1: them and that she's nailing it. Yeah, it just walks
Speaker 1: up like you having a good she's trapping it. She
Speaker 1: reminded me of the character and shadows the energy vampire. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she just came in and would destroy the life force
Speaker 1: of everyone except the dying guy who she ultimately ends
Speaker 1: up with. Right. I do want to add this one thing.
Speaker 1: Those characters of Paula and Olivia, like the gen Z
Speaker 1: college girls. My dad said he like they made him
Speaker 1: feel so uncomfortable that he couldn't get past the first
Speaker 1: episode because he was getting like zoomer anxiety. He's like,
Speaker 1: oh man, they're like they're just gonna fucking read your
Speaker 1: ass and like you don't know what to do, and
Speaker 1: he was like he was feeling that off the screen.
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, I couldn't really get past it. First year.
Speaker 1: They nail the cruelness that gen Z can bring in
Speaker 1: their critiques and you're like, oh my, just like them
Speaker 1: reading at the look that they both give you at
Speaker 1: the same time, and you're like no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: don't look at me, right, because these characters are like
Speaker 1: almost like you know, they have like the cutting commentary
Speaker 1: that like a five year old would where they'll be like,
Speaker 1: oh you're bald, and you're like, okay, thank you chi,
Speaker 1: but they're just like you're like an empty, like lame
Speaker 1: want of your wife. Like they have like this expanded
Speaker 1: vocabulary and know a lot more like psychological terminology, so
Speaker 1: like it's like the same kind of observation, but it
Speaker 1: just cuts you in half. But also they're just like
Speaker 1: disdained for things too. I think was really that line
Speaker 1: where they're like, do you guys meet on Riya Like wow, okay,
Speaker 1: she's just like oh no, You're just like damn, they
Speaker 1: just come for you immediately. The reading is like the
Speaker 1: books they're reading are like these like h like Nietzsche
Speaker 1: and like Freudan. It's like, okay, uh, nobody wants nobody
Speaker 1: actually reads that. But um. And then Jake Lacy, the
Speaker 1: like bro character who's like inherited a bunch of money
Speaker 1: and like it seems to have like the most violent
Speaker 1: conflict with like just well just with every everything about himself,
Speaker 1: and like he's always reading Malcolm Gladwell blank and he's
Speaker 1: never yeah yeah, and never making any progress in it.
Speaker 1: It's always like at the same place I thought was
Speaker 1: he captures like a guy who says he's gonna read
Speaker 1: on a trip energy and it's like, yeah, almost, dude,
Speaker 1: I'm bringing the book here. I'm bringing the book there.
Speaker 1: I'm bringing I brought it to bed. No, I didn't
Speaker 1: read it, but I was about to. But you know,
Speaker 1: vacation and I gotta say, Molly Shannon comes in. I
Speaker 1: mean Shannon is honestly like every every role she plays
Speaker 1: immediately is like she just progresses in a way where
Speaker 1: I'm like, she's so fucking funny. She just comes in
Speaker 1: as a mom who's just like, you know, like you're
Speaker 1: a pretty you know, like that wedding I blacked out.
Speaker 1: You're like, don't you know saying that? It's like, what
Speaker 1: are you saying? People say it's lovely? I don't remember
Speaker 1: that at all, but it was great. Nothing. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel like her, and I feel like the character Jake,
Speaker 1: the mom, Molly Shannon, and the two gen Z girls
Speaker 1: were like the ones that like stuck out to me
Speaker 1: as like the most I don't know, like I hadn't
Speaker 1: seen them on camera like in a thing before, like
Speaker 1: nailing to that degree, like that archetype because they're Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's like a lot of pain in them, like the
Speaker 1: like that is and the way they deal with it
Speaker 1: is like very pathetic and like just completely like transfer
Speaker 1: ring like their anger about one thing to another thing,
Speaker 1: and they just really like nailed it in a way
Speaker 1: that felt realistic and yet like so just obvious. And
Speaker 1: also Steve's On. I forgot about Steveson until I saw
Speaker 1: Meg and I was like, oh wait, Steveson is actually hilarious.
Speaker 1: His whole like meltdown through the series of like he
Speaker 1: finds out his dad died of AIDS and and he's like,
Speaker 1: I just we First he thinks he has testicular cancer.
Speaker 1: Then he finds out his dad died of eates because
Speaker 1: he was you know, bisexual or gay. Well, I don't
Speaker 1: even know. It's not really explained. And then if I
Speaker 1: let these like starts to be like he starts to
Speaker 1: melt it down because he at one point he had
Speaker 1: an affair and decides he wants to be open with
Speaker 1: his son, and his son is really not accepted. He's
Speaker 1: just like, okay, cool, dad, Like stop telling me about this.
Speaker 1: I got your mom. They're so like his character. And
Speaker 1: then just like that scene at the dinner where they're like,
Speaker 1: be nicer to your brother. You know, it's tough for
Speaker 1: young white guys. And then like Paula, they're like, well,
Speaker 1: you know. The daughter is like, you've never even asked
Speaker 1: paula question. And he's like, well, Paula doesn't know anything
Speaker 1: about me, and she's like, well I know about your balls, bro,
Speaker 1: what do you mean walking around lamenting that? Yeah? And
Speaker 1: then he's like, okay, ask me a question, Paula and
Speaker 1: she says, what do you stand for? Oh my god.
Speaker 1: His character just like like what do I stand for?
Speaker 1: Because they're all that like emotional turmoil. He still lacks
Speaker 1: the depth needed to analyze any of it, but he
Speaker 1: can't do it. It's just I thought his character was
Speaker 1: like perfect, just like Dad, it's just like kind of
Speaker 1: checked out, is so self involved with his own crap.
Speaker 1: It's kind of nice to see like Zon he like
Speaker 1: you can see that he can there's a like whatever.
Speaker 1: This next phase is him playing this kind of weird
Speaker 1: middle aged guy, like because that angst when he was younger,
Speaker 1: Like sure it was funny, but I feel like it
Speaker 1: really suits him now, like as he's gotten older and
Speaker 1: like you know that he now looks like he I
Speaker 1: don't know, it just feels like more spot on. And
Speaker 1: then also like Molly Shannon too, is just really helped
Speaker 1: to see, like you're like fun dude. Mony Shannon has
Speaker 1: like always been super talented, Like now she's getting like
Speaker 1: great roles to really you know Fred or wings in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought this was a great role. There's one more
Speaker 1: moment with steveson the moment he gets the call from
Speaker 1: his uncle and he's like, well, how did my dad die?
Speaker 1: Of AIDS? And he's like he was sleeping around with men.
Speaker 1: That face he makes I cried just his I think
Speaker 1: his facial expressions alone throughout the series of just like
Speaker 1: complete confusion, like what he Yeah, he embodied the like
Speaker 1: circuits frying in a computer, but somehow made that a
Speaker 1: facial expression. And then the face he's making when he's
Speaker 1: just sitting like this the next day, where it's with
Speaker 1: his hand, with his face in his hand, and his
Speaker 1: daughter has been like, that's really homophobic for you to
Speaker 1: be this upset about it. Like what if Grandpa was
Speaker 1: like a power bottom just like is a camp process
Speaker 1: any of the information. I mean, I was dying, Mike what.
Speaker 1: The creator and writer of the show's dad was Reverend
Speaker 1: Dr James Melville White, a former speechwriter and ghostwriter for
Speaker 1: the religious right figures such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.
Speaker 1: His father came out as gay, so kind of lived
Speaker 1: in experience, right, cool and interesting Mark, Yeah. And then
Speaker 1: the other character, I just want to like Murray Bartlett
Speaker 1: as armand is like one of the most realistic depiction
Speaker 1: of like a relapse just of being high and like
Speaker 1: uninhabited and or uninhabited, and just like that performance is
Speaker 1: fucking incredible. Yeah, that, especially that last episode when like
Speaker 1: he's like fuck it maybe it's yeah, it's yeah that,
Speaker 1: I mean, his whole it's also like you really felt
Speaker 1: for his character too, because like, you know, like he's
Speaker 1: he's trying to keep a ship together, he's trying to
Speaker 1: stay clean, and he's also like in the midst of
Speaker 1: like the most chaotic week of his career is like
Speaker 1: managing a hotel with like unruly guests, finding bags of
Speaker 1: drugs and not knowing what to do and like his
Speaker 1: own demons. It's like, yeah, it's funny because he provided
Speaker 1: a lot of comedic relief, but also like super like
Speaker 1: you said, like this very realistic portrayal of of someone
Speaker 1: just like struggling with their own addiction to Yeah, I
Speaker 1: also like that the people around and we're kind of like, okay,
Speaker 1: armand no one was really that concerned that this guy
Speaker 1: was so off the deep end, Like you open your
Speaker 1: door and your boss is eating ass, like that's the problem.
Speaker 1: There was just like, you know what, not my business,
Speaker 1: and you haven't seen the show. It's yeah, you'll you'll
Speaker 1: be surprised, but I think it's worth checking out for sure.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we should probably put a spoiler alert at
Speaker 1: the beginning of this, because I think this is spoiler
Speaker 1: alert twenty minutes ago, spoiler alert all you can eat,
Speaker 1: but fet I actually really like Dylan. He doesn't get Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can have any shift I want you I have
Speaker 1: more like right, And then I was just kind of like, yo,
Speaker 1: this is so gross. And then I'm like, well this
Speaker 1: is this is this dark comation. It's like finally, let's party.
Speaker 1: There is a scene last episode that's the grossest thing
Speaker 1: I've ever seen with armand that has to be real.
Speaker 1: They have to have like shown actual like that. Right,
Speaker 1: you can't take that, or you it would cost a
Speaker 1: lot of money to fake that, or you just don't
Speaker 1: put it in a post. Yeah that's true. You think
Speaker 1: that was digitized. I don't think it worse. I ran
Speaker 1: that back a number of times and just like watch
Speaker 1: it and frame by frame and I'm pretty sure really
Speaker 1: did your own yourself and to replicate the shot. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's like what are you doing in the bathroom? Like
Speaker 1: everything a suitcase? I got a new one coming in
Speaker 1: the mail. I don't worry about it. Anna as always
Speaker 1: such a pleasure having you and your streaming corner on
Speaker 1: where can people find you and follow you? Well? Hold on,
Speaker 1: I have to do my outro song for sure, boy,
Speaker 1: just because you as like another four that's the end.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, I can get the horn section from
Speaker 1: Spodi Policias, thank you. I also sampled that. H yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So I think for the next I would love to
Speaker 1: recommend which we've also kind of already recommended, but like
Speaker 1: maybe hopefully by the time we do it again, the
Speaker 1: show will be fully out. But Reservation Dogs, yeah, we
Speaker 1: got to talk about that. We gotta talk about reservation Dogs.
Speaker 1: And I don't want you guys to watch this, but
Speaker 1: I did watch that show click Bait on Netflix, and
Speaker 1: uh not good. And that's my thoughts. I don't want
Speaker 1: you guys to watch it, but I did watch it,
Speaker 1: so got it cool? Where can people uh find you
Speaker 1: and follow you? I'm at in a hosting on Twitter?
Speaker 1: And is there a tweeter or some of the work
Speaker 1: of social media you've been enjoying. Did you see that
Speaker 1: Paul Strader what's his name? Strader? I think I said
Speaker 1: Schaefer got kicked out of a No, it's Paul Straighter,
Speaker 1: not Shaeffer, Shroder. Strader the filmmaker got kicked out of
Speaker 1: a bunch of poker zooms because he just keeps saying
Speaker 1: like really wild shipped to the women, like just so inappropriate.
Speaker 1: And then he did a news article or he like,
Speaker 1: did an interview about it that was like, I mean,
Speaker 1: cancel culture. Am I right? You can't tell a woman
Speaker 1: to fuck another woman in a zoom poker call? And
Speaker 1: I said I would. It was a great friend of mine,
Speaker 1: s G. Goodman, I mean. And then Paul Dano, who
Speaker 1: was running one of them, kicked his ass out, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, okay, Paul Dana, Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1: Hold the line married to Zoe Kazan star of click Bait. Okay, um,
Speaker 1: all right. I like both of them very much. Miles,
Speaker 1: Where can people find you? What the tweet you've been enjoying? Twitter? Instagram?
Speaker 1: At Miles of Gray. Also for the ninety Days Ship
Speaker 1: go to four twenty day Fiance with Sophia Alexandra and I.
Speaker 1: A tweet that I am liking is from at Tawanda
Speaker 1: Ghana t A w A n d A g O
Speaker 1: n A tweeted I'm gonna say candy Man five times
Speaker 1: while my homie says beatles to three times and we're
Speaker 1: gonna make him fight. I felt really great. And then
Speaker 1: the last one is from at zero suit camu c
Speaker 1: A m us It says my son asked me if
Speaker 1: he was gonna die someday. I told him no because honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm not really in the mood. I hope I did
Speaker 1: the right uh parenting. Dave King tweeted, is it true
Speaker 1: that the Alicia Key song No One is about? Who
Speaker 1: out pizzas the Hut? And Brendan O'Connor tweeted, if anyone
Speaker 1: else is worried about the rats, don't worry. I looked
Speaker 1: it up and they can swim for three days without rest,
Speaker 1: so like, wow, reassured. Uh. You can find me on
Speaker 1: Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien. You can find us on
Speaker 1: Twitter at Daily zi Guist for at d Daily zut
Speaker 1: Geist on Instagram. We have Facebook fan page and a website,
Speaker 1: Daily za guist dot com, where we post our episodes
Speaker 1: down our foot notes where we link off to the
Speaker 1: information that we talked about in today's episode, as well
Speaker 1: as a song we think you'll enjoy. Myles. What's this song?
Speaker 1: It's uh, We're gonna do another one from one of
Speaker 1: my favorite new rappers, the Korean rapper park Hey Jon,
Speaker 1: and this track is called what You're Doing Later? And
Speaker 1: so I love her flow. She's like I heard like
Speaker 1: low energy delivery is fantastic and the beats fucking knocks.
Speaker 1: So take what you're doing later into this weekend and
Speaker 1: ask your friends what're you doing later? There you go.
Speaker 1: The Daily Zeke is to the production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: From more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or where I've be listening
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. That's gonna do it for us
Speaker 1: this morning. We're back this afternoon to tell you what's
Speaker 1: trending and we'll talk to you all then. Bye bye
Speaker 1: bye