Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season one, nine, Episode three,
Speaker 1: After Days, I gus the production of My Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: This is a podcast where we take a deep dive
Speaker 1: into America's shared consciousness. It is Wednesday, June one. My
Speaker 1: name is Jack O'Brien a K. When I'm done pitching pods,
Speaker 1: I go back on the Daily's I when I stopped,
Speaker 1: but turned around and do meetings with Miles till I
Speaker 1: get to the evening. Then I do it again. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I heart Empire Nanar Nanar Nanar Nano Heart Empire Nanar
Speaker 1: Nano Nano nan That is uh an ak to Helter
Speaker 1: Skelter courtesy of Johnny Davis, and I am thrilled to
Speaker 1: be joined as always by my co host, Mr Miles Gray.
Speaker 1: It's Miles Gray a k A Miles Gray Wolf ak
Speaker 1: the Miles in the gray flannel suit aka the Portrait
Speaker 1: of Miles Gray a gay. I can see about Miles
Speaker 1: and Miles and Miles again when two for two today,
Speaker 1: It's been a while, been a while, Johnny for those
Speaker 1: as right, Yeah, trying to do that a K. Just
Speaker 1: then give me a real appreciation for Paul McCartney's vocal
Speaker 1: perform I think it's Paul McCartney's vocal performance on that.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's John lynnon but yeah, man, that was yeah
Speaker 1: White album. I only know because of the Gray Album.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yeah, that's from the Gray Album right then,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, Beatles then that means from White album,
Speaker 1: right well, Miles. We are thrilled to be joined today
Speaker 1: by a very talented podcast producer and host currently hosting
Speaker 1: This Day and Esoteric Political History from Radio Topia, where
Speaker 1: you can hear him talk to you know, Lightweight. It's
Speaker 1: like Jill Lapoor about a Russian propagandist who traveled the
Speaker 1: US and sauce in a way we couldn't ourselves, very fascinating.
Speaker 1: Most recent episode, for instance, he was willing to cover
Speaker 1: the fact that America has a white supremacist, a little undercurrent,
Speaker 1: overcurrent type of thing. He is the story editor on
Speaker 1: The Line, the Dan First podcast we raved about when
Speaker 1: we had Dan on, executive producer of Death at the Wing,
Speaker 1: the Adam McKay podcast about tragedy and basketball in the eighties.
Speaker 1: You may have heard him hosting thirty for thirty for ESPN,
Speaker 1: they Politics podcast. We are thrilled to be joined by
Speaker 1: the brilliant and talented Jody Abergant what's up, Hey, And
Speaker 1: going into this, I told myself I'm not going to
Speaker 1: be one of those guests on that daily Vicas was
Speaker 1: flustered by the ak It is impossible to not be
Speaker 1: flust That is quite a thing to witness. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I think it inspires a different range of reaction. Some
Speaker 1: My favorite is outright confusion. Yeah, when they look around
Speaker 1: the room, it's like the it's like the best moment.
Speaker 1: I'm like yeah. And occasionally you get that one where
Speaker 1: it's like the notification of someone just leaving zoom, like
Speaker 1: oh yeah, or they like in the chatter like what
Speaker 1: the funk is this? Like sorry, that was from my manager.
Speaker 1: It's a podcast. I told you no fun Boys. Oh look,
Speaker 1: and I'm wearing my shirt that says Oslo City fun Boys.
Speaker 1: You go wow. I didn't even see that. It was
Speaker 1: Paul McCartney, by the way, it was okay, great performance.
Speaker 1: He's got that growl. Yeah. I feel like he created
Speaker 1: with that and the end of Hey, Jude, I feel
Speaker 1: like he created Steven Tyler's entire career well that his
Speaker 1: vocal stylings. Jody was good man, what's new? Well, can
Speaker 1: you tell us about esoteric history. Well, I'm just over
Speaker 1: here slacking, only doing three episodes a week where you
Speaker 1: crank out every day. No, you know, it's been it's
Speaker 1: been fun to do this show, which has been my
Speaker 1: main thing since I left ESPN about a year ago.
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm trying to like engage with the
Speaker 1: world by looking at the past and not having to
Speaker 1: get dragged into the bs of the of the day,
Speaker 1: whereas you guys have decided to just stare directly into
Speaker 1: the sun every hour. At this point, I could look
Speaker 1: into the ark of the Covenant and nothing would happen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would be like, oh cool light show. Yeah, everyone,
Speaker 1: I wonder what Twitter it is. I mean, I'm telling you.
Speaker 1: I mean that this was like how I designed my
Speaker 1: my last year. And I didn't even know last year
Speaker 1: was going to be what it was. But I was like,
Speaker 1: is gonna be crazy? I want to somehow talk about
Speaker 1: it but not actually have to feel obliged to yap
Speaker 1: about whatever the bs of the day will be. And
Speaker 1: so my answer to that was, let's look to history
Speaker 1: and pick little historical moments that like they're resonant. Yeah,
Speaker 1: people slept a lot better than I did when I
Speaker 1: was covering the election. And I'll tell you that much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I bet all right. We are going to get to
Speaker 1: know you a little bit better in a moment. First,
Speaker 1: we're gonna tell the listeners a few of the things
Speaker 1: we're talking about. We're gonna talk about the Democrats looking
Speaker 1: for more reasons to play nice with the GOP. We'll
Speaker 1: talk about what Trump is continuing to do to the GOP.
Speaker 1: That's sort of a continuing story. Uh, New York and
Speaker 1: l A are back to normal, baby, So we're just
Speaker 1: gonna talk about all our plans to just go mask
Speaker 1: free and uh, really rub it in people's faces. We'll
Speaker 1: talk about the pandemic problems at the Girl Scouts. We'll
Speaker 1: talk about Dartnella Fraser who took the George Floyd video
Speaker 1: and got honored by the Pulitzer Committee. I want to
Speaker 1: ask the overall question, and Jody, as a historian, I'm
Speaker 1: curious for your perspective on this about whether we should
Speaker 1: continue to cover the UFO stuff. I am going to
Speaker 1: continue to, but I'm just interested in the question of,
Speaker 1: like why people do or don't cover that, because I
Speaker 1: don't feel like there's a historical corollary to it. But
Speaker 1: maybe maybe you can correct me all of that plenty more.
Speaker 1: But first, Jody, we like to ask Eric Guest, what
Speaker 1: is something from your search history. It's a very good question.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I was recently searching for
Speaker 1: my search the actual search term was just Deadwood swearing.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen the show Deadwood, but
Speaker 1: we recently did an episode on my on My History
Speaker 1: podcast about Andrew Jackson's funeral during which his pet parrot
Speaker 1: had to be escorted from the room because it was
Speaker 1: swearing uncontrollably throughout Andrew Jackson's life. I guess he had
Speaker 1: taught this parrot to swear, and I think Andrew Jackson
Speaker 1: was probably just a salty individual. Apparently during the funeral,
Speaker 1: the parrot just went off and started swearing, and so
Speaker 1: it's a it's an amazing story. One of my favorite
Speaker 1: tippets on the historical accounts or that people didn't just
Speaker 1: find the parrot destructive, that they found it like rude,
Speaker 1: Like several accounts just say like the parrot was removed
Speaker 1: for for not understanding the solemnity of the moment, like
Speaker 1: the parrots supposed on You're not just swearing, but you're
Speaker 1: you know, you're not taking seriously what's going on wrong
Speaker 1: with that bird went to parrot finishing school exactly. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: there's no historical record of what the actual swears were,
Speaker 1: and so I was trying to get a sense of
Speaker 1: what like mid eighteen century swearing would be, and I
Speaker 1: think Deadwood is my best analog. Yeah, that's great question.
Speaker 1: I always kind of assumed the Deadwood was a heightened
Speaker 1: like almost like Shakespearean like, people didn't actually talk like this,
Speaker 1: but it's fun to just kind of hear reality described
Speaker 1: in these ways like it. Where did you find that
Speaker 1: Deadwood is actually an accurate portrayal of how creatively people
Speaker 1: swore back in the day. I think it's somewhere between
Speaker 1: the two. If I think that the creators of Deadwood
Speaker 1: were careful to only use swear words that were of
Speaker 1: the time, I think the amount of swearing, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's something like seventy two. There's like seventy two cocksuckers
Speaker 1: and the the pilot or something that maybe you know,
Speaker 1: there weren't people like that, but I think the I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, you look at you look at swear words.
Speaker 1: There's some interesting ones from back you know, from back then.
Speaker 1: But it's just a lot of motherfucker on cocksucker too.
Speaker 1: That's are pretty big. Yeah, the classics, very few fun boys.
Speaker 1: In the first episode of the what What's something you
Speaker 1: think is overrated? I thought, yes, was it on yesterday's
Speaker 1: show that someone said on your show yesterday that they
Speaker 1: said going out is overrated? I think that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I kind of Actually I think that may have stolen mine.
Speaker 1: I kind of been finding myself getting back to the
Speaker 1: normal of saying no to stuff. And we're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about that. We're gonna talk about the return to normal later.
Speaker 1: But I find it very liberating to know about to
Speaker 1: like do what I usually do, because have all these
Speaker 1: wonderful things that could be doing and then say no
Speaker 1: thing and I'm just gonna stay home. Yeah, So that
Speaker 1: is my That is my return to normal. The wave
Speaker 1: of relief when somebody cancels is uh, like when somebody's
Speaker 1: like I can't do that, like one of our so
Speaker 1: like we can't do the play date like that is
Speaker 1: you know they say introverts like get life from being
Speaker 1: alone and extroverts get life from being around people. I
Speaker 1: get life from people canceling with me. The extremely specific
Speaker 1: phenomenon I'm going undergone because I'm on the East Coast
Speaker 1: is um plans to watch basketball games that on the
Speaker 1: East Coast start during the playoffs. East Coast start at
Speaker 1: like ten pm. And I'm like, but I still want
Speaker 1: to get together with friends. We're gonna watchstball. This is great,
Speaker 1: we can watch sports together. But you know that game
Speaker 1: is gonna end it. I mean, I'm gonna fall sleep
Speaker 1: halfway through that game. Uh. And then when someone cancels
Speaker 1: on me, it's like, oh great, I can falls by
Speaker 1: my couch and piece during this game. Yeah. Whenever I
Speaker 1: get like sometimes there are those moments you're like, damn,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe this doesn't happen this weekend. And then you
Speaker 1: get like the text that it isn't I go to
Speaker 1: church that Sunday God is real. Yeah I didn't. I
Speaker 1: wasn't believing. Man. And then you came through and you
Speaker 1: you canceled that barbecue, Thank you, thank you. Food does
Speaker 1: not taste good when they cook. Oh man. The NBA
Speaker 1: playoffs though, what a I feel like those are I
Speaker 1: feel like the plans for the NBA playoffs are being
Speaker 1: canceled everybody's getting hurt a bummer. Yeah, what what's something
Speaker 1: you think is underrated? I this might be sacrilege to say,
Speaker 1: but I think, um, listening to anything other than podcasts
Speaker 1: is underrated. And I cannot tell you how consistently it
Speaker 1: feels like a miracle whenever I just like, remember that
Speaker 1: I can listen to something other than a podcast music,
Speaker 1: Oh my god? Like who would have thought? This is amazing? Uh?
Speaker 1: You know? Or like audio books? I may, I listen
Speaker 1: to a ton of audio books, but I just I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm working this industry, It's what I do. I love
Speaker 1: podcast but but like there's just something magical about getting
Speaker 1: in my ears something else to listen to, and and
Speaker 1: it feels like fresh and new every time. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's my my My search constantly is for new music,
Speaker 1: because that's like the one dragon I keep chasing. It's
Speaker 1: like when you just hear like a new artist or
Speaker 1: like a new album or that you're like, where was this?
Speaker 1: My whole life? And that to me is like some
Speaker 1: of the that's what the juice of life is. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I find myself really leaning into that. Although I've been
Speaker 1: the audio book pendulum has been swinging very aggressively back
Speaker 1: into my life against Yeah, I listen to I would
Speaker 1: say the majority of what I listened to that's not music.
Speaker 1: His audio books instead of podcast. Hit me. Hit me
Speaker 1: with a good audio book that you've I'm listening. I'm
Speaker 1: listening to um a Brief History of Seven Killings? Have
Speaker 1: you heard that Marlon James or read that? I have
Speaker 1: read that with my ears. Yeah, there you go, really
Speaker 1: and really well well read, but brilliant book. I will say,
Speaker 1: of course, under cut myself. Marlin James also hosts a
Speaker 1: really good podcast, So there you go. You should. You
Speaker 1: can go listen to. He does this amazing thing. I
Speaker 1: forget what it's called, but it's it's a podcast that
Speaker 1: he hosts with his editor, and they just have an
Speaker 1: amazing relationship. And it's the kind of thing that, like,
Speaker 1: I feel like a really good novelist and their longtime
Speaker 1: editor have a type of relationship probably unique in the
Speaker 1: in the world, right, And so they have that and
Speaker 1: they just talk about books they love. But it's, you know,
Speaker 1: it's really based around their chemistry. But it's like so
Speaker 1: open and I mean, I wouldn't I don't know. I've
Speaker 1: been people's editor and I've had editors. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I would ever have those like really honest open
Speaker 1: conversations knowing that then at some point I'm gonna have to,
Speaker 1: you know, send them my work and they're gonna have
Speaker 1: to tear it apart, or we're gonna have to I
Speaker 1: don't know. But it's a it's a really great it's
Speaker 1: a really great podcast. So underrated is his podcast? Somehow,
Speaker 1: somehow came back to recommending a freaking podcast after all this, Miles,
Speaker 1: what do you read? What do you uh? What audiobook
Speaker 1: are you read? My Life in Red and White by
Speaker 1: the former manager of Arsenal, Arson Venger, and it's there
Speaker 1: raided by him as well, and he just has a
Speaker 1: fantastic perspective on life and soccer football as it were.
Speaker 1: And I think for a lot of fans of Arsenal,
Speaker 1: myself included, like, there are a lot of things that
Speaker 1: happened during his tenure that he never really spoke about
Speaker 1: with much depth. He wasn't really always like giving like
Speaker 1: the most sort of open interviews, but in this book
Speaker 1: he's able to really speak about how he saw player
Speaker 1: management and like he you know, he like has a
Speaker 1: background as an economist and that factored heavily into how
Speaker 1: he even like managed trades and things like that, So
Speaker 1: there are there are moments as fans are like why
Speaker 1: why would he trade this person? Or like what's going on?
Speaker 1: Like why what's why do we keep these people? And
Speaker 1: then you find out like sort of from from his perspective.
Speaker 1: So it's a nicely sort of post mortem on his
Speaker 1: time there, and his voice is just you know, classic miles.
Speaker 1: Do you do you know that show Desert Island Discs,
Speaker 1: That BBC show, I've heard of it. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: been running for eighty some years now, but it's basically
Speaker 1: a guest talks about the five or eight records they
Speaker 1: would take with them onto a desert island. But it's
Speaker 1: sort of an excuse to talk about. But he did
Speaker 1: one of my favorite Desert Island discs recent memory, not
Speaker 1: of all time. It's just phenomenal, so I go check
Speaker 1: it out. But yeah, he's he's got a great voice
Speaker 1: and very thoughtful guy and you know, yeah, I'm not
Speaker 1: an Arsenal fan, but I I admire him. Yeah, change
Speaker 1: the game. And now he's now he's wrapped up in FIFA,
Speaker 1: so he can't really even speak space scathingly of this
Speaker 1: body that is probably actually ruining the game. But hey,
Speaker 1: you know, that's that's how they get to I can't
Speaker 1: give a anti recommendation for audio book. You should get it,
Speaker 1: but just don't do what I did. I fell asleep
Speaker 1: listening to Blood Meridian. Oh no, no, no, and uh.
Speaker 1: And then I was like, why why am I so
Speaker 1: like anxious today? And yeah, it is because Blood Meridian
Speaker 1: was dancing. Visions of Blood Meridian were dancing through my head.
Speaker 1: I thought it would give me like some insight into
Speaker 1: you know, we we need to know about Texas as
Speaker 1: as they're about to descend into an apocalyptic post electricity hellscape.
Speaker 1: I was like, let's let's get into this Blood Meridian
Speaker 1: I've been hearing so much about. Yeah, that's that's fucked up.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know who narrates it. I just did,
Speaker 1: uh the Autobiography of Malcolm X narrated by Laurence Fishburn,
Speaker 1: and that was fucking amazing. Narrators can do so much.
Speaker 1: But Jody, just based on your podcast, I was curious
Speaker 1: if there are any like esoteric moments in history or
Speaker 1: esoteric kind of trends in history do you think are
Speaker 1: kind of underrated in terms of understanding the current zeitgeist
Speaker 1: and kind of modern America. I'm sure there's a ton,
Speaker 1: but like anyone that sticks up, Yeah, it's an interesting question.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I I try and be open.
Speaker 1: You know. Part of this is like you bring a
Speaker 1: lens of your own, and so I'm one of these
Speaker 1: people who are often I kind of feel like every
Speaker 1: story is a media story, and so, you know, I
Speaker 1: just feel like in every conversation we have, at some
Speaker 1: point it comes down to just the like radical transformation
Speaker 1: in media that goes back further than maybe you know,
Speaker 1: Fox News came around in the early two thousands or
Speaker 1: in the in the nineties, but you know, you um
Speaker 1: and my co host Nicolehammer studies wrote it an amazing
Speaker 1: book called Messengers on the Right and wrote a you know,
Speaker 1: and and studies a lot how especially the GOP came
Speaker 1: to really um radicalize around new media in the you know, sixties, seventies, eighties,
Speaker 1: and nineties. But that's that's the kind of thing that
Speaker 1: I always I feel like doesn't get it doesn't get
Speaker 1: rated properly. It's just the way in which we've just
Speaker 1: been fractured intentionally by changing media landscape. So there's just
Speaker 1: all sorts of stories of people who were doing stuff
Speaker 1: in the fifties and sixties and seventies where you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's the blueprint that we're just seeing right now. You know.
Speaker 1: Facebook's just Facebook's just the latest in ration of of
Speaker 1: you know, the way in which it took all the
Speaker 1: breaks off. Yeah, exactly, exactly, Yeah, I mean it was interesting.
Speaker 1: Jillapor on your most recent episode was talking about how
Speaker 1: the current culture wars are basically the modern like leftovers
Speaker 1: from the Cold War and not the leftovers, but no,
Speaker 1: it's basically they kept the Cold War going by attacking
Speaker 1: left wing politics within America. Yeah, I had I actually,
Speaker 1: you know, when she said that, it was the first
Speaker 1: time I've ever heard anyone really frame it that went
Speaker 1: and a few people, i mean like you know, but
Speaker 1: basically she said, you know, and this is the billions
Speaker 1: that Jillapor was just to sort of like tossed off comment,
Speaker 1: but she was like, you know, when we quote unquote
Speaker 1: won the Cold War, all the moves were still there,
Speaker 1: and so we just turned those inwards and we started
Speaker 1: fighting the Cold War with each other. And I was like, oh, right, yes,
Speaker 1: that makes sense, But yeah, it was. It was a
Speaker 1: very good insight. Yeah, very cool. All right, Well, we're
Speaker 1: going to take a quick break and we'll come back
Speaker 1: and talk about culture wars and we're back, and you know,
Speaker 1: they're the culture wars that we were just referencing before
Speaker 1: their break. But then there's good old bipartisanship that is
Speaker 1: the cure all to that. And we just need to
Speaker 1: be nicer to each other. I think that's the end
Speaker 1: of that story, right, Miles. Yeah, bipartisanship will save us.
Speaker 1: It's not a lay mass excuse for not advancing any
Speaker 1: real transformative legislation, not at all. That's not the case.
Speaker 1: It's not that we have people that are completely not
Speaker 1: up to the task of governing in the moment. But yeah,
Speaker 1: this bipartisan ship is becoming it's just like so in
Speaker 1: your face at this point. They've been so many times
Speaker 1: that the Republicans have shown themselves to not have any
Speaker 1: interest in governing in any way, like there's merely just
Speaker 1: a bunch of racist snakes piled up in a trench
Speaker 1: coat who are trying to grind like the progress of
Speaker 1: society to an absolute halt, because that's it seems to
Speaker 1: be the only way they'll be able to sort of
Speaker 1: maintain their power or to just kind of do away
Speaker 1: with elections as we know them. But now you know,
Speaker 1: first it was like there was the stimulus Bill where
Speaker 1: it's like, well, let's work with Republicans, and they did,
Speaker 1: and they still didn't vote for it. But then that
Speaker 1: wasn't enough to say, Huh, maybe these aren't people worth
Speaker 1: talking to. Maybe their mindset is such that it's not
Speaker 1: there's nothing they could bring to the table that would
Speaker 1: elevate or we can find any kind of compromise on.
Speaker 1: And so now we're just seeing more examples. Like recently
Speaker 1: we talked about how Mitch McConnell said he would intervene
Speaker 1: if Trump's picks just got way to like out of
Speaker 1: left field for them to actually win elections. But part
Speaker 1: of that interview with Hugh Hewitt was this other thing
Speaker 1: that he said was essentially, if as long as I'm
Speaker 1: alive and we control the Senate, the Republicans do, I
Speaker 1: will never advance a Supreme Court pick that comes from
Speaker 1: the Democrats. Never. You can count on that. And I
Speaker 1: don't care what you say, I no. I We had
Speaker 1: the thing where it's well, Marrick Garland. Those different because
Speaker 1: an election year. But then when it was Amy Coney Barrett,
Speaker 1: we got the hyper speed people mover or not even
Speaker 1: a red carpet just to be like let's fast track
Speaker 1: this person straight into the Supreme Court. It's all ringing,
Speaker 1: very hollow. And now we're sort of encountering the same
Speaker 1: thing with the Infrastructure Bill, where it's about of like, well,
Speaker 1: let's get some bipartisanship going, but all of their concerns
Speaker 1: are sort of rooted in like nativism or like some
Speaker 1: oligarchical ideology that there's no room for things like you know,
Speaker 1: climate change, like really addressing that in this bill, because
Speaker 1: that's a way to help the economy and also change
Speaker 1: our dire situation. So yeah, we're seeing just more and
Speaker 1: more of like complaining about bipartisanship with no one really
Speaker 1: offering like like actually saying the heart bits out loud
Speaker 1: of well, we need to move forward without them. I'm
Speaker 1: wondering when he says that he would never allow like
Speaker 1: a democratic Supreme Court nominate to move forward, like is
Speaker 1: he doing that too? Like do you think he wants
Speaker 1: the Democrats to try to load the Supreme Court because
Speaker 1: then it would be unpopular, it would like get kind
Speaker 1: of put things more in the sort of all out
Speaker 1: warfare that he feels most comfortable in, because that's just
Speaker 1: such a needless like concession to make of. Just like
Speaker 1: I think, I think you are overthinking it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean that that's that's almost getting at like three D
Speaker 1: chess kind of stuff. And I just think the GOP
Speaker 1: just has goals and they say what they want to do,
Speaker 1: and they do what they want to do, and that's it.
Speaker 1: And so I think when you know, it's like, um,
Speaker 1: believe him, you know, when he says it, and they'll
Speaker 1: change the rules, you know, and and the rules will
Speaker 1: just sort of be the rules that are most convenient
Speaker 1: at any given moment. And it's a game that the
Speaker 1: GOP is like perfectly willing to play and does not
Speaker 1: feel there is no discordance in their head about it.
Speaker 1: That's just like that, you know, no no one in
Speaker 1: the GOP is like feeling bad about this behavior or
Speaker 1: feeling worried about being you know, charged with hip hypocrisy
Speaker 1: or whatever. That's it's just the game that they play.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the thing. There's just an asymmetry
Speaker 1: in terms of the different the games that the game
Speaker 1: that Republicans are playing in the game that Democrats are playing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think Republicans can tell like the writings on the
Speaker 1: wall in terms of the popularity of their party, so
Speaker 1: it behooves them to go all out, just like, let's
Speaker 1: do everything. Let's try and jerrymander the funk out of
Speaker 1: these districts, Let's suppress the vote as hard as possible,
Speaker 1: Let's do whatever we can to eke out these majorities,
Speaker 1: because it doesn't seem like the party's gonna grow based
Speaker 1: on them just screaming like socialism is gonna antifa your
Speaker 1: guns and that that's for a very select group of people.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I think because of that, the Democrats are
Speaker 1: looking at it with this calculus of like, well, then
Speaker 1: democracy will like I mean big d Democrats have been
Speaker 1: sort of trying to defend like, well, we we have
Speaker 1: to try and make it work, because if then we're
Speaker 1: not participating democratically speaking, then then nothing works and then
Speaker 1: we're in this terrible situation. But it completely sort of
Speaker 1: ignores the fact that one side of this is a
Speaker 1: group that has a complete, like an antithetical agenda to democracy.
Speaker 1: So how do you then what what are you preserving
Speaker 1: exactly like with this sort of you know, Hine the
Speaker 1: Skuyt of bipartisanship. Yeah, And I think that that gets
Speaker 1: to I mean, so much of our culture wars and
Speaker 1: political wars an our just I think are people both
Speaker 1: willfully and just sort of maybe subconsciously like defining key
Speaker 1: terms in radically different ways. And so I think that
Speaker 1: there's just a definitional gap with the word like bipartisanship.
Speaker 1: And there's this sort of old school notion of bipartisanship
Speaker 1: being within the Senate. You reach across the aisle and
Speaker 1: you talk to the fifty people or whatever it is
Speaker 1: on the other side of the aisle. There's another definition
Speaker 1: of bipartisanship, which is doing stuff that is broadly popular.
Speaker 1: And I feel like Democrats for a bit, we're starting
Speaker 1: to make that argument. I think now there's still this
Speaker 1: lingering fealty towards bipartisanship is within Washington as opposed to
Speaker 1: things like infrastructure, things like healthcare, you know, are broadly
Speaker 1: popular and if you can rent, you know, if you
Speaker 1: can redefine by partisanship to that, we're going to do
Speaker 1: populist things that have wide appeal. Then maybe you start
Speaker 1: to get you start to get somewhere. Though, I think
Speaker 1: miles to your point. I think the the GOP is,
Speaker 1: you know, with clear eyes, starting to move away from
Speaker 1: that notion of our jobs to do stuff that has
Speaker 1: wide appeal. Yeah. I mean you mentioned the word populist,
Speaker 1: and like that's a word that people used to describe Trump,
Speaker 1: and it's like kind of the opposite of that, Like
Speaker 1: he what's a populous appeal, But it's an incredibly narrow path,
Speaker 1: you know, electorally, and his populist appeal is to a
Speaker 1: small portion of the of the population. It's just that
Speaker 1: it's the trappings of popul We associated racism with populism
Speaker 1: early on, and I feel like that's racisms are pretty
Speaker 1: popular for a while though to be yeah, yeah, but
Speaker 1: I feel like it's becoming less. Yeah. Boy, can I
Speaker 1: can I say one thing? Just as you were talking
Speaker 1: about your definition of by partisanship, Also, it made me
Speaker 1: think of my daughter who's just turned four, and we're
Speaker 1: trying to teach her about sharing, and I think we're
Speaker 1: doing a pretty good job, but she has now I
Speaker 1: feel like overlearned what sharing means, which is, you know,
Speaker 1: I have something I'm like eating a sandwich and she
Speaker 1: tries to grab it for me, and she's like, we're sharing,
Speaker 1: you know. I feel like that's that's sort of Republicans
Speaker 1: thinking about bi partisanship, partisanship, Sure, let me have that.
Speaker 1: We're doing it my way, right. That's bi partisanship. By
Speaker 1: partianship is you don't say no to me's the deal here?
Speaker 1: And that that's how Democrats very much see and that's
Speaker 1: why I like, it's really frustrating when people now you
Speaker 1: have like Ed Markey and and Jeff Merkley saying like
Speaker 1: we're not going to vote for some watered down infrastructure bill,
Speaker 1: like we give a ship about the climate. So if
Speaker 1: those things aren't actually articulating the legislation, we're not going
Speaker 1: to support it. And that puts them in a really
Speaker 1: tough spot because how what are you gonna get twelve
Speaker 1: twelve Republicans on board? I don't know, And I think
Speaker 1: that's what a lot. There's a lot of hesitation even
Speaker 1: within the House, like they're saying, like, what is a
Speaker 1: bill that it's gonna actually get support in both chambers
Speaker 1: because the water down version you're gonna have defectors on
Speaker 1: like the progressive end who don't want to support it,
Speaker 1: So then what's the math there? And that's led to,
Speaker 1: you know, one of Biden's advisors going to the Hill
Speaker 1: and basically saying like, look, there's two ways we do this.
Speaker 1: One is in seven to ten days you figure out
Speaker 1: how to get Republicans on board, and if not, we'll
Speaker 1: just try and just smash this through under reconciliation. So
Speaker 1: we'll see where that ends up. But uh, yeah, the
Speaker 1: first time I've heard them be like, we'll do it
Speaker 1: without them. But will they? Can they? But do you
Speaker 1: think there's any any benefit to putting something out there
Speaker 1: that at least feels like it could get sixty votes
Speaker 1: just to get some Republicans on the record voting against
Speaker 1: something that is just like super simple, super straightforward, has
Speaker 1: all that bipartisanship bipartisan No, I mean it depends. I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's really hard to know like who that
Speaker 1: appeals to because I'm clearly like in my own echo
Speaker 1: chamber and bubble and how I look at the politics
Speaker 1: on the Hill, and I have a calculus I used
Speaker 1: to determ and if I want to support a party
Speaker 1: or not, And I don't know if some people are
Speaker 1: just think of it seems like the mainstream or a
Speaker 1: lot of the mainstream Republican views just say no to
Speaker 1: everything Democrats do, like we're so piste off about the
Speaker 1: election that all we can do is just burn the
Speaker 1: house down. And so I'm not sure if that as
Speaker 1: much as like there have been these like moves to
Speaker 1: try and get Republicans on the record or try and
Speaker 1: coax them out, it doesn't seem like it's happening because
Speaker 1: Trump still so much he has somen't we care, he
Speaker 1: has just so much influence still, So yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's a hard it's a hard one to predict. There
Speaker 1: was a article in the Washington Post about like but
Speaker 1: two of the leaders who are basically being black balled
Speaker 1: by the Republican Party because they disagreed with Donald Trump
Speaker 1: on like one individual thing. Republican Tom Rice of South Carolina,
Speaker 1: i think, voted to impeach Trump after the insurrection, and
Speaker 1: another kind of Chip Roy in Texas voted to certify
Speaker 1: the election results. And those two like one off decisions.
Speaker 1: They've agreed with Trump on literally everything else. Those two
Speaker 1: one off decisions, they're like, yeah, that I signed my
Speaker 1: political death warrant by disagreeing with him once and now
Speaker 1: I'm being primaried from the right. So that's the threat.
Speaker 1: I mean, because I'm I'm I'm very curious about this.
Speaker 1: What is the actual You hear it said all the
Speaker 1: time the GOP is scared of Trump. And I think
Speaker 1: for a while in two thousands, sixteen and seventeen and eight,
Speaker 1: even into eighteen, you know, there was a real threat
Speaker 1: of like Trump, you know that you could get primaried.
Speaker 1: Trump can swing elections. I don't think that threat really
Speaker 1: is there anymore. I think Trump is a political liability.
Speaker 1: So what is the threat? That's what I'm trying to
Speaker 1: figure out when you say he's a political liability, Like,
Speaker 1: do you do you think that he can't win like
Speaker 1: another election? At this point? I think it would be
Speaker 1: very hard for him to win another election. I think
Speaker 1: he stuck his nose in. I mean, it was very
Speaker 1: hard for him to win in two thousand sixty. People
Speaker 1: people weirdly like talk about underrated like people weirdly forget
Speaker 1: that was like the most Rube Goldbergian way to win
Speaker 1: an election ever, um and people have forgotten that. Not
Speaker 1: to diminish you know, the consequences of it. But um
Speaker 1: but I mean, you know, he stuck his nose in
Speaker 1: Georgia and um, yeah and probably lost that election. And
Speaker 1: I just I think that threat but maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know again, I'm curious what you think
Speaker 1: is the actual threat that to uh, that a Republican
Speaker 1: elected official feels if they crossed Trump, I'm scared of
Speaker 1: X happening. I think it's like there's like anecdotal stuff
Speaker 1: like Kinsinger has talked about how much his life has
Speaker 1: become a hell, like with constituents like bombarding him with
Speaker 1: calls or harassing his family or his family harassing him.
Speaker 1: Because I think in general, they're not really they're not
Speaker 1: operating on principle. They're operating on what's popular or what
Speaker 1: gets the most cheers for them at a rally. So
Speaker 1: like if the Trump thing helps them, then I feel
Speaker 1: like that's what they were gravitating towards and just any
Speaker 1: bit of turbulence that occurs from their base because there
Speaker 1: maybe be like you know, vocal maga people in their
Speaker 1: in their constituency that hearing those words is enough for
Speaker 1: them to think that Trump very much has his power.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, I'm I'm also a curious thing because there
Speaker 1: are a few Republicans have said, no, I don't give
Speaker 1: a ship, like, um, this is what I believe come
Speaker 1: at me, And increasingly they have said, hey, I've had
Speaker 1: to spend more money on security. And I don't know
Speaker 1: if those sort of anecdotes sort of are the sort
Speaker 1: of the backdrop for a lot of these people's perception
Speaker 1: that this guy can make things really hard for you.
Speaker 1: But when you but I totally agree when you look
Speaker 1: at the people that he wants to run, like, how
Speaker 1: could you go from people who are like on paper
Speaker 1: like objectively not to say that I agree with their politics,
Speaker 1: but from a purely plus one winning strategy point of view,
Speaker 1: that you have viable candidates, which just because they're not maga,
Speaker 1: you're gonna flip them for someone who is completely not
Speaker 1: competitive in the same district. That's where I think, like,
Speaker 1: is it happened in two Like there he put out
Speaker 1: a bunch of weird people and they didn't they didn't
Speaker 1: they weren't up to Scruss. So I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's going to take another cycle like that, and maybe
Speaker 1: they go, man, this guy doesn't what he's doing, Like
Speaker 1: we're gonna lose the party. But I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: know how many of those Republicans are there who are
Speaker 1: thinking we're gonna lose the party, because there there's these
Speaker 1: new batches like, hey, we're here for nativism and white
Speaker 1: nationalism and you know, making hot giving hot takes on
Speaker 1: the Holocaust. I think I'm just like blown away by
Speaker 1: the fact that one of the two major parties in
Speaker 1: the US is essentially openly authoritarian. Like the thing that
Speaker 1: they disagree with is an open and fair election, and
Speaker 1: like that's what gets you blacklisted and within that party now, right, Well,
Speaker 1: that's and part of that is what comes with when
Speaker 1: you're you know, your singular goal is retention of power,
Speaker 1: and then you're clear eyed about the fact that you
Speaker 1: can't really do that through normal meetings. You know, that's
Speaker 1: how you end up being an authoritarian. But you know,
Speaker 1: I also think that one underdiscussed current in this sort
Speaker 1: of like engine of the modern GOP is like anti
Speaker 1: anti Trumpism. Right. I don't think it's necessarily pro Trumpism,
Speaker 1: but I do think this like culture war owned the Libs.
Speaker 1: I feel like since the Muller Report, almost when the
Speaker 1: GOP convinced itself that like, oh, the Muller report was
Speaker 1: there was it was a sham. There was no Russian collusion.
Speaker 1: Liberals have gone around the bend, you know, YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 1: I think that anti anti trumpism for like the Lindsay
Speaker 1: Grahams of the world. I actually think that's what's making
Speaker 1: them tick. It's this sort of like anti liberal thing
Speaker 1: more than it is core fealty to Trump, if that,
Speaker 1: if that distinction makes any sense, Yeah, it's just I
Speaker 1: guess that's what it's hard when all of their rhetoric
Speaker 1: is tied up in defending him or defending his actions still,
Speaker 1: and then that's when you're like, well, then what is
Speaker 1: it exactly like that? What is this other dimension or
Speaker 1: this influential you know, lever of power or this for
Speaker 1: worse that we're not able to see with our eyes
Speaker 1: or ears. And that's also affecting them because yea, at
Speaker 1: the same time, you Lindsay Graham, like he would have
Speaker 1: won if the Wuhan lab leak thing was properly invest you, like,
Speaker 1: what you're still talking about this what do you owe him?
Speaker 1: Like what's going on? But I feel like at some level,
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, maybe Liz Cheney and the old
Speaker 1: school Darth Vader wing of the GOP would be able
Speaker 1: to do something. But seeing that that didn't have much sway,
Speaker 1: I think shows that there's definitely like a different endgame
Speaker 1: for these people. Yeah, and just another gapeanos. Dana roar Backer,
Speaker 1: who we've used to talk about, is no longer in power,
Speaker 1: super arch conservative Trump supporting congressman. It was recently pictures
Speaker 1: revealed that he breached the police bearer kids at the
Speaker 1: insurrection and was like, they're kind of breaking the law.
Speaker 1: So that's one direction that you know, Trump can take
Speaker 1: your career is your Yeah, well, I mean Dana Rohbach gurd,
Speaker 1: I mean he went he fought with the Mujahideen against
Speaker 1: the Russians in the eighties, Like he went to Afghanistan,
Speaker 1: Like he's he's always been like hey, where's the party yet?
Speaker 1: Type of energy always where you're like, oh wow. There's
Speaker 1: like a really interesting photo of him like with like
Speaker 1: a collistion to CoV and stuff in Afghanistan in the eighties.
Speaker 1: Very interesting image. He was just born to be in it, right,
Speaker 1: It's just born to be in it exactly. Oh man,
Speaker 1: what an inauspicious beginning to to that campaign. Man, that's
Speaker 1: just born to born to be in it. Now watch
Speaker 1: this kick flip. Let's talk about New York in l
Speaker 1: A getting back to normal. And yeah, kind of, I
Speaker 1: just I just brought this up more because like it's
Speaker 1: more of just a feeling I have around all of
Speaker 1: there's like this fanfare about reopening and like, you know,
Speaker 1: you have Cuomo being like, you know, we can go
Speaker 1: back to life as we know it, and other people
Speaker 1: saying like you don't have to live with fear of
Speaker 1: the virus anymore, and like we can, we can go back,
Speaker 1: and these like all the verbiage being used, it just
Speaker 1: feels like it's not acknowledging like how traumatic this entire
Speaker 1: ordeal has been. And there's like a there's like a
Speaker 1: dimension of acknowledging the humanity of the pandemic that I
Speaker 1: feel like really missing from all of like the headlines
Speaker 1: and you know, news stories. It's like, hey, man, like
Speaker 1: the l A galaxy is going to full capacity, and like,
Speaker 1: isn't that great? Because at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I feel like there's so many people who have gone
Speaker 1: through so much this last year and have had to
Speaker 1: compartmentalize and then on top of it like the way
Speaker 1: people even looking at their work and like how we
Speaker 1: you know, we saw all of the like the grim
Speaker 1: realities of like the ills of our society and who
Speaker 1: reaps the benefits and whose labors being exploited, while we
Speaker 1: just like give fancy labels like essential without the real
Speaker 1: like material acknowledgement that what they do is essential to
Speaker 1: the country running. And and yeah, there's just there's just
Speaker 1: something that like rings this hollow that I'm just I
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm I'm I'm more curiously how everyone else
Speaker 1: is sort of seeing that because I feel like all
Speaker 1: of the messing just like, oh man, that's over a
Speaker 1: few Okay, great, it's all come out. It's over, guys.
Speaker 1: And nothing happened back then. That was the last year.
Speaker 1: None of that happened. Like it's I don't know, And
Speaker 1: not to say that we have to dwell on it,
Speaker 1: but on some level, I feel like part of the
Speaker 1: reopening should have a dimension of like wellness to it
Speaker 1: or acknowledging how you like, acknowledging that it was a
Speaker 1: fucked up year for many people unless you were at
Speaker 1: a certain socio economic level. Yeah, And I think if
Speaker 1: we don't acknowledge that out loud, it will be acknowledged
Speaker 1: in some other like weird cultural I don't know, like
Speaker 1: that we saw that. Whether whether we go forward and
Speaker 1: like spend a lot of time talking about it and
Speaker 1: processing it, My my guests would be Americans not not
Speaker 1: going to do that, Like mains from American culture not
Speaker 1: the best at processing trauma. And also we talked before
Speaker 1: about how like when you look back at the historical record,
Speaker 1: the nineteen eleven pandemic was basically just like it didn't
Speaker 1: really leave a mark, Like people didn't write that many
Speaker 1: novels about it. But then you know they're people have
Speaker 1: speculated that it led to all sorts of like kind
Speaker 1: of under the under the surface cultural movements and stuff.
Speaker 1: It'll be interesting, but I do agree like there's a
Speaker 1: healthy way to do it, and we probably won't be
Speaker 1: doing that. Yeah, I mean, Myles, I'm glad you said
Speaker 1: that because I I think it was you know, maybe
Speaker 1: a month or so ago, there was just a lot
Speaker 1: of consternation about if you're vaccinated, to take off your mask,
Speaker 1: and just a lot of pressure and a lot of
Speaker 1: people sort of taking these weird stands about like wearing
Speaker 1: a mask and and and giving people a hard time
Speaker 1: for still wearing a mask, you know. And I had
Speaker 1: the same reaction, which is, like, this has been a really,
Speaker 1: really tough year. If it's gonna take someone a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks to get to the place where they're comfortable
Speaker 1: taking off their mask, or if they're gonna be like
Speaker 1: unsure of what to do, like let them be unsure,
Speaker 1: let them be uncomfortable, like a couple of weeks, Like
Speaker 1: this is gonna work itself out, And and like why
Speaker 1: is that the hill that people feel this desire to
Speaker 1: die on? This like this has to happen now, and
Speaker 1: we have to draw these bright lines now, we have
Speaker 1: to flip this binary switch. Like, you know, I'm incredibly
Speaker 1: excited to get back to the normal things. I'm incredibly
Speaker 1: excited to rip off my mask. Like you know, I
Speaker 1: don't like wearing a freaking mask. But like this idea
Speaker 1: that I would, um give someone a hard time if
Speaker 1: it's going to take them a few weeks or they're
Speaker 1: gonna have to you know, slowly slowly ease their way
Speaker 1: back into things. Um, It's it's bizarre and sort of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's no humanity to it, And I think you're right, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's and even with the mask thing, it's sort of like,
Speaker 1: you know, what have It completely ignores that so many
Speaker 1: people know someone, whether directly or indirectly, probably someone that's
Speaker 1: passed away because of COVID, and or you know, has
Speaker 1: someone that is experiencing long COVID, or you know, I
Speaker 1: know people who are still on oxygen like from time
Speaker 1: to time because it's still not they haven't quite fully recovered.
Speaker 1: All of those things play into people's minds because that's
Speaker 1: what the reality has been the last year. It's not
Speaker 1: like got it. My whole last year has been me
Speaker 1: inside just playing Fortnite over and over and over again,
Speaker 1: and I just wish I could go outside and just
Speaker 1: like start drinking at Applebee's again. Like it's been fraught
Speaker 1: for many people who's been like I don't know what
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do with my kids. I don't do them
Speaker 1: at my house or my job. I don't know if
Speaker 1: my parents are gonna survive. And it's also freaky for
Speaker 1: me to try and see them because on top of that,
Speaker 1: I have the weight of potentially infecting them because I
Speaker 1: don't you know, Like, all of these things have been
Speaker 1: thoughts that have been racing through well, I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people's minds, and especially for people who have
Speaker 1: had to go to work throughout it, they've felt that
Speaker 1: they've been forced to work in really unsafe conditions. Their
Speaker 1: their safety has been completely disregarded, and no one there's
Speaker 1: no consideration for that. And then there's no acknowledgment that
Speaker 1: they were putting themselves at risk this whole time too,
Speaker 1: And then it's sort of like, yeah, man, everything's great, huh,
Speaker 1: and there's just something that I just I I don't
Speaker 1: know why, Like you'd hope that on some level they're
Speaker 1: like mental health professionals that were also being like people
Speaker 1: are going to have to sort of deal with what's happening,
Speaker 1: because I do see this left over trauma that's occurred
Speaker 1: from the pandemic, Like, yeah, metastasizing into something else later
Speaker 1: down the road because people didn't deal with all this
Speaker 1: other energy they had that was just papered over in
Speaker 1: the name of like getting back to normal. Right, not
Speaker 1: down the road, I mean metastasized in real time. Last year, right,
Speaker 1: we saw, you know, we saw the results of of
Speaker 1: what what this did to us as people were cooped
Speaker 1: up and the connect with each other yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: the mask became a symbol of like anti individualism. I
Speaker 1: feel like for a lot of people in the country,
Speaker 1: and like they reacted absolutely violently. I do wonder if
Speaker 1: we'll see a because I mean, there there's no avoiding
Speaker 1: the fact that we just saw this social safety net
Speaker 1: just completely collapse and made spider webs and it was
Speaker 1: made clear you know who who is prioritized in America.
Speaker 1: And I you've seen like small ways that things have
Speaker 1: moved a little bit leftward, like just allowing people to
Speaker 1: make more money and kind of service jobs. But it's
Speaker 1: like you really people have had to had their hand forced,
Speaker 1: like Chipotle had to have their hand force to do
Speaker 1: that after the pandemic. But I am wondering if like yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if that's going to be a broader thing, right,
Speaker 1: Like that's everybody now has this new normal where they're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is this is bullshit, Like it's not. There are
Speaker 1: certain circumstances where we can't pull ourselves out of the
Speaker 1: quicksand by our own bootstraps, and you know, we need
Speaker 1: to we need something there to to grab onto, and
Speaker 1: it wasn't there, so like well, I mean I'll tell
Speaker 1: you something I think about a lot, which is in
Speaker 1: the last spring and then even into this spring, but
Speaker 1: certainly the first round of stimulus, you know, I was
Speaker 1: really surprised, to be honest, that like in the conversation
Speaker 1: around the first round of stimulus and then Biden's first
Speaker 1: round of Stimus as well, it was really kind of
Speaker 1: taken as a given that there is a robust role
Speaker 1: for government in helping people in times of crisis, and
Speaker 1: that is not something this country has kind of like
Speaker 1: taken for granted, you know. And and so I mean,
Speaker 1: I think there is some sort of level of progress there,
Speaker 1: I mean. And then there was another example that is
Speaker 1: there was there was some Republican congress person or senator
Speaker 1: someone just fairly recently who tried to trot out that
Speaker 1: Reagan line of the scariest words in the English language
Speaker 1: are I'm from the government, that I'm here to help,
Speaker 1: and they basically got laughed out of the room, I think,
Speaker 1: kind of by both right and left. And I think
Speaker 1: it was an indication like that kind of language doesn't
Speaker 1: play anymore, like people are starting to really take for granted,
Speaker 1: I think across the spectrum or whatever you wanna call
Speaker 1: whatever we're living in right now that there is a
Speaker 1: role for government, and so I do think like maybe
Speaker 1: that's one of the lasting things. And who knows how
Speaker 1: long lasting is, but you know, at least right now
Speaker 1: it feels like it's out there. I'm sure we'll see
Speaker 1: another squeeze and you know, action from people. As you know,
Speaker 1: certain Republican governors begin turned saying no to federal stimulus
Speaker 1: money for unemployment, and see what comes out of that
Speaker 1: when they say, all right, well let's say people completely
Speaker 1: off of this uh and force them into jobs that
Speaker 1: don't even meet the you know what most economists say
Speaker 1: is the minimum to live in a state, um, and
Speaker 1: if you have a child, like, it's not even close.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm yeah, I think. But that's the other
Speaker 1: thing is like I think there are other people to
Speaker 1: have found boundaries to or something, or at least they've
Speaker 1: become more resolute and trying to say what they want,
Speaker 1: are willing to do or not willing to do, or
Speaker 1: at least express that more openly, because I think before
Speaker 1: this everything was just sort of like, oh God, this whatever,
Speaker 1: this given job sucks, There's nothing I can do about it,
Speaker 1: that's it. And now I think because unfortunately people have
Speaker 1: been taken to the brink that they're starting to be
Speaker 1: more vocal and say, you know what, I'm watched me
Speaker 1: say no to this job. That's how serious I am
Speaker 1: about not taking sub subsistence wages to keep my life going. Right. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like it's sort of a hacky metaphor, but
Speaker 1: I do feel like we're living in a bit of
Speaker 1: a era where people are seeing the matrix a little
Speaker 1: bit and are seeing the sort of way in which
Speaker 1: government um and historical forces aligned to affect their day
Speaker 1: to day lives and are asking sort of fundamental questions
Speaker 1: about that. Which that's why I'm always talking about how
Speaker 1: we try to redpill people exactly, metaphor that we think
Speaker 1: works really well for the dailies. Fist and uh, We're
Speaker 1: hoping people get it, and you keep breaking trying to
Speaker 1: reclaim exactly. All right, let's take a quick break. We'll
Speaker 1: be right back, and we're back. And Darnella Fraser, who
Speaker 1: was the seventeen year old who took the video of
Speaker 1: Derek Chovin murdering George Floyd, has been honored by the
Speaker 1: Pulitzer Board. I guess it's not a full pulitzer. I
Speaker 1: don't know, like all the different levels of pulitzer. It's
Speaker 1: a citation, which sounds bad. This sounds bad. You don't
Speaker 1: want to be you don't want a citation. But this
Speaker 1: is it's an honor. She she's one of the only
Speaker 1: kind of private citizens to get it. I guess the
Speaker 1: famous photograph of the fireman holding like pulling a baby
Speaker 1: out of the rubble in the Oklahoma City bombing was
Speaker 1: also taken by just like somebody who worked nearby, and
Speaker 1: that person got a similar like pulitzer honor. But this
Speaker 1: seems like it's on a whole new level like that.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I can't. I can't think of anything
Speaker 1: more deserving of a pulitzer. Like she was just a
Speaker 1: kid going to get snacks at a corner store and
Speaker 1: just I mean head to stand in the face of
Speaker 1: like them holding onto their like pepper spray and just
Speaker 1: like doing all sorts of threatening ship like to her,
Speaker 1: and just like kept taking the video and like really
Speaker 1: changed the world. It's like a pulitzer even enough, you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like like in terms of like I get it,
Speaker 1: because it's more you know, for like you know, journalism
Speaker 1: and literature and music and things like that, and like
Speaker 1: this is something it almost transcends all of those things
Speaker 1: because it, Yeah, I unfortunately it took this like unadulterated,
Speaker 1: uncut video of this happening to inspire like a lot
Speaker 1: of other people who were probably were treating the like
Speaker 1: this the white supremacist ills that week's into this country
Speaker 1: just like I don't know, like not real until that moment,
Speaker 1: and it just seems like it's so far beyond I
Speaker 1: mean because considering like the amount of sort of danger
Speaker 1: she was in for a certain period of time, like
Speaker 1: right after that, and the trauma that she had to
Speaker 1: go through, and just other people who were there at
Speaker 1: the time trying to plead with the police. Yet it's yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, the idea that Choven will, while ignoring the
Speaker 1: cries of bystanders and murdering someone just in cold blood,
Speaker 1: like in front of everybody, has asked him, was that
Speaker 1: pulled out his mace? Like that is like who who
Speaker 1: is that for? That's probably for the people who are
Speaker 1: just standing there, And she just didn't move, she didn't
Speaker 1: let it make her run away. Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: think the yeah, I think the citation here is the
Speaker 1: sort of surface level is this this photo had an
Speaker 1: enormous obviously an enormous impact. But I do think what
Speaker 1: you what you two are getting at this that what
Speaker 1: she did, um was it was was journalism, right, It's
Speaker 1: a truth telling. It's standing there and bearing witness. And
Speaker 1: so I think that that's the sort of real level
Speaker 1: of of commendation here, citation here. And I also just
Speaker 1: think this is a reminder, another reminder in this moment
Speaker 1: that like, if her video did not exist, Chauvin would
Speaker 1: have gotten off you We've all seen how the original
Speaker 1: police report was written up. You know, we're living Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're living in a sort of era that is defined
Speaker 1: by whether if you know, police behavior is captured on
Speaker 1: on a cell phone video, then that that's you know,
Speaker 1: that changes everything, and that's sort of one of the
Speaker 1: defining features of this era. And so I think of this,
Speaker 1: this moment, this award, the citation to her um as
Speaker 1: a reminder of just kind of like the power of
Speaker 1: starting with you know, starting at this point almost ten
Speaker 1: years ago, just the see change of everyone having a
Speaker 1: camera in their pocket and what that's done. And still
Speaker 1: it's like so rare for me to pull out my
Speaker 1: camera like that. It just really puts unto perspective, like
Speaker 1: how common these sorts of things must be, Like the
Speaker 1: number of times that something like what Derek Chovin did
Speaker 1: or worse happens that it doesn't get captured on camera
Speaker 1: like that. I also think about that with the Walter
Speaker 1: Scott murder where the cop shot him as he was
Speaker 1: running away in the back and then just like walked
Speaker 1: up and planet evidence like that is it's wild that
Speaker 1: somebody happened to be just like taking a video of
Speaker 1: that like from you know, twenty feet away. It's truly
Speaker 1: unbelievable and you know, an amazing stroke of luck that
Speaker 1: just goes to prove, like God, how frequently is this
Speaker 1: happening when like the one in a million chance that
Speaker 1: somebody has their camera out at that moment isn't in effect, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it kind of bums you out there, two, because you
Speaker 1: have mounds of bodycam footage that are just as incriminating
Speaker 1: in a lot of cases too. But somehow, and like
Speaker 1: these other cases, the needle doesn't move, And yeah, think
Speaker 1: for for all that's happened just shows just the insurmountable.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just almost feel it's just like
Speaker 1: this mountain, we're still at the foot of of trying
Speaker 1: to ascend because there's still so many obstacles to actually
Speaker 1: bring people who are abusing their power to justice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's worth pointing out that, Darnella Fraser, I believe this award.
Speaker 1: It's a special citation, but it comes with the same
Speaker 1: prize money as all the other awards. It's not a
Speaker 1: ton of money, but you know, it is worth pointing
Speaker 1: that out. Okay, real quickly. I I do kind of
Speaker 1: just want to get because I've been getting questions and
Speaker 1: like comments from people saying like, come on, we have
Speaker 1: enough problems here on Earth. Why are you covering this
Speaker 1: like unidentified unidentified aerial phenomenon or you know, submerged phenomenon nonsense?
Speaker 1: And I just I kind of want to just get
Speaker 1: have that conversation on the show, like about like Miles,
Speaker 1: what your thoughts are on, like whether it's worth continuing
Speaker 1: to like kind of keep an eye on. And also
Speaker 1: Jody as somebody who hosts a history podcast, like what
Speaker 1: how do you view like the importance or like just
Speaker 1: even the conversation around the video evidence that's coming out.
Speaker 1: I think it's compelling. Yeah, I mean I the no
Speaker 1: one's saying this footage is fake, and so that based
Speaker 1: because of that, my curiosity is I'm immediately interested to say, well,
Speaker 1: what is going on? Yea, what is this? Why are
Speaker 1: things moving like that? Is it a technology we don't know?
Speaker 1: Is it some other thing? But at the very least
Speaker 1: I'm interested because it goes against bucking everything I thought
Speaker 1: that was realistic or possible or plausible up until this point,
Speaker 1: or like you know, it's always treated as things like
Speaker 1: get over it is some other thing that happened, but
Speaker 1: that that I don't know. When you see this all
Speaker 1: all this footage and then you on top of the
Speaker 1: Pentagon's like help us, I'm definitely interested. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's don't think it's like frivolous to talk about
Speaker 1: it necessarily, but I think it's I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: it seems pretty significant unless what at the end of
Speaker 1: the day it comes out and they're like, oh, they're
Speaker 1: all fake like then then then yeah, then it was
Speaker 1: what were we talking about this whole time? But well,
Speaker 1: I don't I think even in that scenario, it's a
Speaker 1: worthwhile conversation. I mean I think that I think the
Speaker 1: disconnect and maybe Jack, you're you're hearing a little bit
Speaker 1: of this is just that for some reason, there's this
Speaker 1: expectation that we haven't talked about UFOs for so long
Speaker 1: and a conversation about him have been sort of relegated
Speaker 1: off into the corner, and now we're finally tearing the
Speaker 1: top off, and that means that we should, uh, there
Speaker 1: should be a big, definitive answer at the end of that,
Speaker 1: and like we're not gonna we're not going to get
Speaker 1: that anytime soon. It doesn't mean it's not a worthwhile
Speaker 1: conversation or it's not interesting, especially if you have to
Speaker 1: host a daily podcast. You gotta fill forty five minutes
Speaker 1: every day, and what else are you gonna do? You know,
Speaker 1: we can, we can fill it with all kinds of
Speaker 1: nonse more, we're filling it with conversations about whether we
Speaker 1: should have conversations see the Metal, Yes, but no, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I I have found it endlessly fascinating and
Speaker 1: also incredibly confounding. Like I don't feel anymore like I
Speaker 1: know more with the capital kay, no more any you
Speaker 1: know now than I did. But I found it interesting
Speaker 1: to think about feel like everything else, we sort of
Speaker 1: have a historical corollary for or you can at least
Speaker 1: like think about it in the context of history, and
Speaker 1: this one is just we we don't. It's well, yeah,
Speaker 1: you mentioned very briefly at the beginning of this project
Speaker 1: I did called Death at the Wing. It is with
Speaker 1: this guy Adam McKay, who's one of my favorite sort
Speaker 1: of directors, and he's just a brilliant guy. And he
Speaker 1: has this production company. You know, this is sort of securitis,
Speaker 1: but he has a production company called hyper Object Industries.
Speaker 1: A hyper object is a thing. I'm probably gonna butcher this.
Speaker 1: You'll have some sci fi geeks get in touch with
Speaker 1: you about the actual definition, but you know, it just
Speaker 1: basically a like thing that doesn't have context. It just
Speaker 1: arrives and you do not know how to place it.
Speaker 1: And you know, I think climate change is one of
Speaker 1: those things that's just like there is not a historical
Speaker 1: precedent for coming around to understanding. I would argue, actually,
Speaker 1: like the level of wealth and equality we're seeing in
Speaker 1: this country is sort of a hyper object, Like we
Speaker 1: just don't have the language to process what it means
Speaker 1: to be a multi multi, multi billionaire and what that
Speaker 1: does to us. I think the UFO thing is sort
Speaker 1: of the same, Like there is not a continuum of
Speaker 1: conversations that that prep us for this, right, It's just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're beyond the we're beyond the looking glass here, Jack,
Speaker 1: You're a modern day Copernicus, man, That's how I like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. You're challenging, like, oh wow,
Speaker 1: Geocentris City, Okay, I'm a modern day Copernicus. Groupie. It
Speaker 1: was like, yo, Copernicus, we love you, We love you Copernicus.
Speaker 1: So one thing that I think is tied up in
Speaker 1: like my interest in this is the the idea that
Speaker 1: if this is real, there is like some hopefulness that
Speaker 1: that like there is this scientific continuum that keeps going
Speaker 1: beyond like what we currently know, and whoever is at
Speaker 1: that level beyond what we currently know has decided not
Speaker 1: to kill us like that. There's something like almost like uh,
Speaker 1: religiously like optimistic about that idea to me, that like
Speaker 1: is basically contained in any version of this that isn't
Speaker 1: just uh that this was somebody uh doing fake photography
Speaker 1: and somehow fulling a bunch of fighter jet pilots. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think I think some people pushed back though
Speaker 1: too because a lot of this ship that's discussed about,
Speaker 1: you know, aliens or UFOs is like art bell type
Speaker 1: ship where it's a little bit like you know, coming
Speaker 1: out in a like left field and you're like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, is this like for real? This guy said
Speaker 1: he was on a Navy ship in the seventies and
Speaker 1: saws and like, okay, let's everything felt like it was
Speaker 1: just sort of these like this oral tradition of like
Speaker 1: you know, people saying basaw stuff. But I think that's
Speaker 1: what makes this really interesting is that we're going to
Speaker 1: like what the government is saying, like, no, this is
Speaker 1: this is the real footage, this is what has happened.
Speaker 1: It's documented, and we're still saying we're not sure what
Speaker 1: we're looking at. And I feel like anything that gives
Speaker 1: a little bit more sort of fuel to it, I
Speaker 1: think there would be art bells or you know, any uh,
Speaker 1: if there was any like real event that was treated
Speaker 1: as the way that UFO and alien you know, culture
Speaker 1: is treated like I feel like anyway, if you were
Speaker 1: just like baseball doesn't exist, and the military's official position
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, there's no such thing as baseball, and
Speaker 1: the only people like people who had been to games
Speaker 1: were the only sources of information, and like you couldn't.
Speaker 1: Like I I just feel like any observable thing that
Speaker 1: was treated by the military, like so many of these
Speaker 1: pilots are now being like, yeah, we see it every day,
Speaker 1: and we just we're scared of like being called crazy,
Speaker 1: so we didn't do it. Like that's such a profound
Speaker 1: stigma to like try and then create, like build a
Speaker 1: body of information around Like so yeah, I did not
Speaker 1: get that at all, um, but I really admired your
Speaker 1: You're saying it's bigger than BASEB. Alright, finally, let's let's
Speaker 1: talk about what's going on with the Girl Scouts real quick.
Speaker 1: Some some pandemic related problems. Yeah, apparently many look, many industries,
Speaker 1: governments had their deficiencies exposed during this pandemic, and I
Speaker 1: guess the Girl Scouts aren't safe either, Like the story. First,
Speaker 1: I just saw that they had They did terribly with
Speaker 1: Girl Scout cookie sales last year. They have fifteen million
Speaker 1: unsold boxes, which is like never happened before. They're like
Speaker 1: everyone's scratching their heads of a lot of the people
Speaker 1: at these like at the local council level up to
Speaker 1: the like the national level have different I guess, competing
Speaker 1: ideas around this. At the highest level, they say, look,
Speaker 1: it was a global pandemic that was unprecedented, Like what
Speaker 1: do you that's why we have that's why we have
Speaker 1: this surplus of cookies. Like I don't know how to
Speaker 1: explain it, Like the traditional ways of selling weren't available
Speaker 1: because store like where they have the folding table out
Speaker 1: in front of the girl. It's all just informal like
Speaker 1: foot traffic, like yeah, and it's all like networks, there's
Speaker 1: typically just whatever. You just exploit your own social network
Speaker 1: to just being like yeah, let me just crank out
Speaker 1: a bunch of boxes being sold. So that's the one
Speaker 1: that's the sort of overarching idea. Then other people point
Speaker 1: to like problems that are a little bit bigger within
Speaker 1: the Girl Scouts that they said, you know, over the
Speaker 1: last twelve years, the membership has declined from two and
Speaker 1: a half million to one point eight million. And some
Speaker 1: say they said, because the Boy Scouts have like began
Speaker 1: to rebrand and change their policy that just that will
Speaker 1: also allow like anyone to join out, not just boys.
Speaker 1: That it's also siphoning away some of their membership, Like
Speaker 1: is like the more conspiratorial, like it's the Boy Scouts,
Speaker 1: they're they're they're messing up our recruitment. I think the
Speaker 1: other there's a few other things though, too that I
Speaker 1: think might make sense. Wait, the argument there though, is
Speaker 1: that there are not literally not enough boots on the
Speaker 1: ground for the Girl Scouts to move the product essentially,
Speaker 1: Like that's one because this gets soldiers soldiers on the
Speaker 1: corners exactly, everyone exactly, and then they come back to
Speaker 1: the throw a tennis ball across the street, and then
Speaker 1: you throw up a hand signal, so you know how
Speaker 1: many things to give the custis. But the other thing
Speaker 1: that's really interesting is that whole like at the end
Speaker 1: of the last year, that the huge stories that were
Speaker 1: coming out about palm oil production and how it's used
Speaker 1: this child labor. It's terrible for the environment, and it's
Speaker 1: also like a huge ingredient in Girl Scout cookies. And
Speaker 1: that led some troop leaders in certain jurisdiction in certain
Speaker 1: parts of the country say, you know what, we don't
Speaker 1: want to use our children to sell products that were
Speaker 1: created by children. Huh. Interesting. Um, so that's like another
Speaker 1: reason they said, some some people were so woke. But
Speaker 1: then I think a lot of people also just point
Speaker 1: to the fact, like you're saying, there's no when people
Speaker 1: aren't going into an office, you're not able to just
Speaker 1: voist just tens of boxes on coworkers and people like that.
Speaker 1: And also they say that just overall, like for the
Speaker 1: last ten years, there's so much more options for kids
Speaker 1: for things they can do, like and what they want
Speaker 1: to put their energy, and it's not always just going
Speaker 1: to be Girl Scouts. Now there's your radios, I tell
Speaker 1: you what rot their damn brains. They seem like the conflict, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that that this feels like an er situation where it's
Speaker 1: just we were not together and sort of Girl scott
Speaker 1: cookies are you know, a social product that seems like
Speaker 1: the answer to me. Yeah, yeah, And I just don't know.
Speaker 1: I think also, I don't know. I feel like over
Speaker 1: the years, I've slowly began to look at Girl Scout
Speaker 1: cookies with more contempt, just in terms of like they're
Speaker 1: not they don't hit the same Like this was it
Speaker 1: because I was a kid, and I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: it was like the one thing that like the sweets
Speaker 1: that my parents would like let me have because it's
Speaker 1: like we're supporting my friend school who wants them. But
Speaker 1: then now, like I remember, just like some of the
Speaker 1: newer flavors just don't sit right with me. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know if maybe my palate is I've just
Speaker 1: gonne beyond the girl Scout cookies. Now yeah, also, like
Speaker 1: I mean, why don't they just collapse? Like I'm sure
Speaker 1: it will become increasingly weird for the Scouts to be
Speaker 1: gendered by like boys Scout girls scout right, and the
Speaker 1: boy Scouts changed their name to Scouts B S A.
Speaker 1: I don't know why they kept it kept the initials
Speaker 1: of Boy Scouts of America, but like it seems like
Speaker 1: that is probably the next move is just to like
Speaker 1: collapse them. And but I don't know, the fact that
Speaker 1: that's not even being part of the conversation suggests to
Speaker 1: me that maybe I'm too naive for this cub Scouts game,
Speaker 1: all right? Might be? Yeah, well, Jody, such a pleasure
Speaker 1: having him in. Where can people find you? Follow you here?
Speaker 1: You all that good stuff. I appreciate you asking that
Speaker 1: people can listen to this day in esoteric political history.
Speaker 1: It just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it. Um Wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcast. It's a Radiotopia show, so um,
Speaker 1: you know, you can find us there. And then I
Speaker 1: I am on Twitter at Jody Abragan and you can
Speaker 1: find me there too. Nice And is there a tweet
Speaker 1: or some of the work of social media you've been enjoying.
Speaker 1: I actually do have one Instagram account I really do
Speaker 1: want to recommend I've been enjoying the hell out of lately.
Speaker 1: And it's called It's the Countess ball House. If you
Speaker 1: just google ball House Instagram, it's like got some weird spelling,
Speaker 1: but if you google you'll find it. But it's it's
Speaker 1: this guy who does side by side images of photos
Speaker 1: from the NBA with like master artwork next to it
Speaker 1: that sort of look the same. I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: very hard to describe, but he finds these synergies and connections.
Speaker 1: So have all have a photo from last night's playoff
Speaker 1: game with like a Dega right next to it and
Speaker 1: they look almost exactly the same. Or you know, he'll
Speaker 1: have like a Da Koon ng and then a photo
Speaker 1: of James Harden and he just has this ability to
Speaker 1: to make these mashups and find these connections. It's like,
Speaker 1: uh has has it in any just world. This would
Speaker 1: have like five million followers and right now it's like
Speaker 1: two thousand. But it is amazing. These are you see this? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's spell like house. The house is spelled like
Speaker 1: bow house. So it's it's it's all underscore. So it's
Speaker 1: B underscore A underscore, L underscore L underscore, H underscore
Speaker 1: A underscore you underscore s got it. But it is
Speaker 1: brilliant if you know, if if you like art at all,
Speaker 1: not that you don't even have to know anything about art,
Speaker 1: but if you feel things looking at works of art,
Speaker 1: this is actually it's. Yeah. The way he's sort of
Speaker 1: distilling a lot of these images and then finding like
Speaker 1: these parallels and find art is yeah. I like this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I likes pretty great. It's pretty good. Thank you. It
Speaker 1: was one of those things when I discovered it, I
Speaker 1: like immediately emailed and texted everywhere, right, so I'm trying
Speaker 1: to spread the word. It's one of those get in
Speaker 1: early miles. Where can people find you? And what's a
Speaker 1: social media work? You've been enjoying Twitter, Instagram, Miles of
Speaker 1: Gray and also the other podcast for twenty Day Fiance.
Speaker 1: You could check us out on Twitch, dot tv, slash
Speaker 1: four twenty day fiance. We're talking ninety day fiance if
Speaker 1: it wasn't clear, And you know, I'm not really kind
Speaker 1: of in the same boat, you know, I was talking
Speaker 1: about therapists. I'm like, you know, sometimes you're you get
Speaker 1: your get your wheels going spinning too fast when you're
Speaker 1: on that social media. So I just want to shout
Speaker 1: out an account on TikTok of this really fantastic drummer
Speaker 1: who plays like drummin bay and like jungle type beats
Speaker 1: like on a kit and has like all these like
Speaker 1: really great symbols to give you all kinds of like
Speaker 1: reverse symbol sounds and stuff. And he's playing it all
Speaker 1: live and so it's a combination of social because you
Speaker 1: get to watch it. But then he gets a little
Speaker 1: to naj and the count is called ned Drums one
Speaker 1: to three. That's on TikTok. I think he has an
Speaker 1: Instagram account, but you can see this dude just get
Speaker 1: just nasty on the kid playing like what is you know,
Speaker 1: traditionally like sample electronic beats. So yeah, check that off tweet.
Speaker 1: I've been enjoying Josh Gondleman just in general has been
Speaker 1: very funny on Twitter lately. He tweeted, It's unreal that
Speaker 1: the public bathroom air hands dryer industry a k. The
Speaker 1: airborne germ blowing around industry survived the past year and
Speaker 1: a half. They must have the most powerful lobby in Washington.
Speaker 1: And then George Wallace Mr. George Wallace, classic tweeter and
Speaker 1: comedian tweeted, I grew up so poor we could only
Speaker 1: listen to cool or the Gang. Um uh thet you're
Speaker 1: feeling that? Uh. You can find me on Twitter at
Speaker 1: Jack Underscore O'Brien. You can find us on Twitter at
Speaker 1: Daily zeitgeiscre at the Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have
Speaker 1: Facebook fan page and a website, Daily zeitgeist dot com,
Speaker 1: where we post hire episodes. On our footnotes, we link
Speaker 1: off to the information that we talked about in today's episode,
Speaker 1: as well as a song we think you might enjoy. Miles.
Speaker 1: What are we sending people towards more Hiatus? Coyote? Yeah
Speaker 1: you haven't been listening, Come on now, get into it
Speaker 1: and Coyote spelled k A I Y O T E.
Speaker 1: They're my favorite band right now. They're so solid on
Speaker 1: their instruments. I say that every time as someone who
Speaker 1: plays bass and trumpet and want to be drummer. I'm
Speaker 1: always impressed with the instrumentation. This track is called Chivalry
Speaker 1: is Not Dead, and it's just the songs are so
Speaker 1: like rich with the sounds that they use, and like
Speaker 1: even how they go into odd meter at times. So
Speaker 1: check this out. Chivalry is Not Dead. I can't believe
Speaker 1: they have a song named after my catchphrases Chivalry is
Speaker 1: not Dead, Ladies. The Daily Zyka is a production of
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio from more podcast from my Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. That's gonna do it for
Speaker 1: us this morning. We're back this afternoon to tell you
Speaker 1: what's trending, and we'll talk to you all day. Bite, bite,