Speaker 1: And we have arrived episode twenty four, and it's officially
Speaker 1: the league's Best of NBA week, and we've got the
Speaker 1: absolute perfect guest to celebrate some of the great moments
Speaker 1: as we were joined by NBA historian and author of
Speaker 1: From Hang Time to Prime Time Pete Croato. I'm Miles
Speaker 1: Gray and I'm Jack O'Brien, and this iss ja excellent opener.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, he's like, did you get the twenty four reference?
Speaker 1: And you Jack Bower, Jack o'bower, what a showy speaking
Speaker 1: of what a show, Pete, Welcome to our show, best
Speaker 1: most informed NBA podcast. A pleasure to be here. I
Speaker 1: didn't know I was expected to know twenty four. I
Speaker 1: would have caught up on the seasons like three through right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's when it gets really good. You can tell. That's
Speaker 1: when I really starts showing that they're making it up
Speaker 1: as they go along. Um, so I think exactly, yeah,
Speaker 1: real soap opera, writer's room vibes and some of the
Speaker 1: later seasons. Um, but that's not what I mean we
Speaker 1: could do. I mean, look, if we want what do
Speaker 1: you want to change us too? I mean episode twenty
Speaker 1: four all about the show twenty four they never saw
Speaker 1: it coming. I can help you out for the first
Speaker 1: two seasons, and then I just you got out at
Speaker 1: the right time, did I? I mean I it just
Speaker 1: got I mean, from what I understanding, got better and
Speaker 1: better and better. But I don't know. Apparently I'm I'm
Speaker 1: I'm not hit to the scene. So yeah, no real
Speaker 1: twenty four heads feel like it was the season one
Speaker 1: and two where the peak. Yeah, you know it also
Speaker 1: did it gave me an early tip tip off when
Speaker 1: so the writers of that went on to right and
Speaker 1: like show run um Home, what was the one Homeland? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I saw the second they brought someone back from
Speaker 1: the dead. I was like, oh, this is they don't
Speaker 1: know what they're doing. This is just going like they're
Speaker 1: doing the same process where they write as they go along.
Speaker 1: So anyways, you gotta taste them. If we're sponsoring our podcast.
Speaker 1: Um so your book man from hang Time, so good,
Speaker 1: so much. Thank you so much for sending a copy
Speaker 1: with a handwritten note class act. Yes, well you know,
Speaker 1: you know it's funny. The book has been out for
Speaker 1: two years and my my handwriting is has gotten like
Speaker 1: five percent better, So really that's better. Yeah, damn man,
Speaker 1: I know I'm not. I'm no longer writing them in
Speaker 1: my car while I drive, so it's it's marked improvement.
Speaker 1: So I'm happy to that was I think. Uh, I
Speaker 1: think Jabari will have set that up if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you think one of the greats. But yeah,
Speaker 1: Like you know, the book is called you know, the
Speaker 1: Business Entertainment and the Birth of the Modern day m
Speaker 1: b A, and I think and Jack and I were
Speaker 1: talking about this, I'm like, there's an interesting moment that
Speaker 1: I figured that is very instructive to the NBA as
Speaker 1: we know it today. Admittedly I was saying earlier off Mike,
Speaker 1: I was like, my consciousness begins in the stern era
Speaker 1: of the NBA. So I knew as I was a kid,
Speaker 1: Showtime Lakers was like the biggest thing. I'm like five
Speaker 1: years old and going and going on. I had no
Speaker 1: idea what the road was to even the modern n
Speaker 1: b A. And you talk about this moment in eight
Speaker 1: where CBS was basically planning to get rid of the NBA,
Speaker 1: and I'm just curious if you can just kind of
Speaker 1: laid the sort of foundation, because I think it's a
Speaker 1: really interesting moment and one that we don't realize how
Speaker 1: you know, the sport could have gone from like an
Speaker 1: afterthought to one of the most popular things. I came
Speaker 1: to wearing Gulf spikes everywhere instead of Jordan's and if
Speaker 1: you still wear that weird hat with like the little
Speaker 1: yeah yeah yeah, I mean holes would have been like
Speaker 1: the you know, like our foot lockers and every store.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, no, I mean that. I'm the same way
Speaker 1: like I started getting the NBA, like in like when
Speaker 1: Jordan's was like Jess getting into his his peak as
Speaker 1: a as a champion, and and the myth was really
Speaker 1: starting to perfect. So I was like you, Miles, like
Speaker 1: I had no as a kid, like you're being thirteen
Speaker 1: fourteen is like, oh this is how it's always been.
Speaker 1: Um and yeah, the NBA was was nobody's first choice,
Speaker 1: and was CBS like they yeah, CBS was was legitimately
Speaker 1: on the brink of getting rid of the NBA because
Speaker 1: there was a new president, Frank Smith, who took over
Speaker 1: and he didn't want anything to do with the NBA.
Speaker 1: He felt it was a ratings killer. It felt he
Speaker 1: felt there was no traction there, so he had he
Speaker 1: had He was talking with his lieutenant Neil Pilson, who
Speaker 1: later became the president's CBS Sports, saying that you know,
Speaker 1: I you know, we we gotta you know, I know
Speaker 1: there's a handging agreement with with Larry Brian, but like
Speaker 1: we we gotta get rid of this. It's it's it's
Speaker 1: it's holding us down. It's it's not doing anything. Because again,
Speaker 1: CEN Sports at that time had just about everything. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like the late eighties, it had basically every major sport.
Speaker 1: So Smith gives a bad news and you know, O'Brien
Speaker 1: is just crest fall and it doesn't understand what's happening.
Speaker 1: It's it's he's a gas because he was told that
Speaker 1: this was the deal was in place. So Stern goes
Speaker 1: to Neil Pillson, Neil, if you talk outside for a minute.
Speaker 1: So Stern and Pilson go outside, and then David Stern
Speaker 1: just proceeds to just simultaneously chastise and beg Neil Pilson
Speaker 1: to put the NBA back on schedule, because Stern knew
Speaker 1: that without a Big three network deal, without that distribution
Speaker 1: of games, the NBA was sunk. So Stern basically just
Speaker 1: got him Pilson stage. It was begging him like please,
Speaker 1: you gotta we have a deal. You're gonna hurt me,
Speaker 1: You're gonna hurt Larry. Just don't do this. So eventually
Speaker 1: Pilson and Stern go back into the office, and miraculously,
Speaker 1: Pilson was able to convince Frank Smith to, yeah, just
Speaker 1: say that. You know, it does sound like a Frank
Speaker 1: Frank Smith. Now you're making that up. What's the guys,
Speaker 1: really it does? It does sound And I could be
Speaker 1: wrong because it's been two years of the book came up,
Speaker 1: but I think yeah. But so Philson says, look, you know,
Speaker 1: the NBA is we already have the deal, is gonna
Speaker 1: cause us money to lose the n b A let's
Speaker 1: just ride it out and and we'll go for it.
Speaker 1: And that's how and that's that's how the NBA was
Speaker 1: able to stay on by like but like a breath.
Speaker 1: And that just shows you how close the NBA was
Speaker 1: just being an afterthought in American sports life, which seems
Speaker 1: bizarre considering we're entering in you know, we're entering a
Speaker 1: season where it's gonna be NonStop coverage for the next
Speaker 1: like nine months. The detail that got to me was
Speaker 1: that everybody was pushing for years and finally got them
Speaker 1: to allow them to do pregame shows that would give
Speaker 1: people context, and prior to that, it was just like
Speaker 1: you just like turn on your TV and like the
Speaker 1: game starts and there's people like just spouting off names,
Speaker 1: you know, just La and yeah, which reminded me of
Speaker 1: so you know when you're watching ESPN and suddenly like
Speaker 1: a X Games event starts and they're just spouting on
Speaker 1: and like aren't really explaining anything, and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that was a half pipe zeros n Niner. It's a
Speaker 1: Niner in there. Yeah, I love that though, M Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know that's the thing. You know, a lot of
Speaker 1: the things we take for granted, those with TV and
Speaker 1: presentation were birthed in the seventies and eighties. The pregames,
Speaker 1: the halftime show, you know, the fact that you have
Speaker 1: announcers that are actually giving depth to the game and
Speaker 1: providing you know, insights and not just you know, there's
Speaker 1: a made basket by Scott Wedman from fifteen feet. So
Speaker 1: all these things that we just take for granted right now,
Speaker 1: like not only did they not exist, did exist for
Speaker 1: a number of years, and they're only relatively recent inventions
Speaker 1: and that's the one thing with this book that I
Speaker 1: think why it has a pretty good shelf life. I
Speaker 1: hope not grumb would because you know, I have expenses
Speaker 1: like everybody else. But but to me, I think the
Speaker 1: reason for this book and I think people maybe find
Speaker 1: some some use for it or or joy it, it's
Speaker 1: because it's a reminder of how things were. And it's
Speaker 1: also a reminder that you know, the game, that there's
Speaker 1: that there are precedents, and that they're easy to forget
Speaker 1: where we came from, especially with sports because everything move
Speaker 1: so quickly now, and it's and I think we we
Speaker 1: really get we really get an opportunity to say, well,
Speaker 1: how did this happen or what happened before or anything
Speaker 1: like that. So it's it's so yeah, I think this
Speaker 1: book is um you know, That's why I've been talking
Speaker 1: about this book for about two years now. So one
Speaker 1: thing that blew my mind was the money for the
Speaker 1: broadcasting rights. When you compare the dollars, can you just
Speaker 1: tell me those like eight eight million for the NBA
Speaker 1: versus just kind of so this is it was crazy, right,
Speaker 1: So this is in what two and they're like, okay,
Speaker 1: this this is what it's gonna cost for you to
Speaker 1: broadcast the NBA. Yeah, and it was also and it
Speaker 1: also was considered a lousy deal. And I think I
Speaker 1: remember correctly from my research, it was either a minimal
Speaker 1: increase from the year before or it was the same
Speaker 1: contract that was repeated. That's how little Creden's the NBA had.
Speaker 1: And meanwhile, the NFL at that time, amongst all of
Speaker 1: its network parts with had like a billion dollar deal
Speaker 1: and now you know, a eighty eight million is nothing.
Speaker 1: So again, these are all relatively recent adjustments. I mean,
Speaker 1: even the NBA's for a into big time prime time
Speaker 1: television that only really started like nine So yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just when you think about where the NBA started what
Speaker 1: it is now, I mean, it's really incredible. By all accounts,
Speaker 1: the NBA really shouldn't be where it is today. But
Speaker 1: it's just, you know, it's it's David Stern and a
Speaker 1: number of really hard working employees and folks in television
Speaker 1: who made it made it happen. What are some of
Speaker 1: the wildest stories that you uncovered kind of researching and
Speaker 1: interviewing for the book. Oh man, I mean, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to the one that didn't make the book and there
Speaker 1: were a couple of off the record comments and a
Speaker 1: couple of anything illegal or anything I tried. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's that's the that's the goal you try and find.
Speaker 1: You know, you're trying and find every look under every
Speaker 1: nook and credits you whish you can find. I mean,
Speaker 1: the wildest story. To me, boy, I'm trying to think
Speaker 1: there's a wild store. I mean, Miles brought it up
Speaker 1: with with the with the Neil Pilson David Stern, and
Speaker 1: I got that's something I never heard of. And that's
Speaker 1: what It just blows my mind that like a major
Speaker 1: executive is begging for for television cars, begging to be
Speaker 1: to be put on the air. That was a pretty
Speaker 1: good I'm trying to think. I Mean, the one story
Speaker 1: that that I that comes to mind is with David
Speaker 1: Stern is Arlene Weltman, who was in the NBA offices
Speaker 1: for every years, remembers that when David STONI go on vacation,
Speaker 1: he would he would go on vacation hed come back
Speaker 1: and he would have legal pads just crammed with notes
Speaker 1: with ideas of the league. Like he never he never stopped.
Speaker 1: It's just yeah, they're just all these little just nuggets
Speaker 1: that came out in the reporting in terms of wild
Speaker 1: you know, it's funny. I'm gonna I'll probably at one
Speaker 1: point will review the notes and I'll find like five
Speaker 1: things I wish I had put in. But like what's
Speaker 1: in the book, I think it's pretty reflective with what
Speaker 1: I was able to find. But the thing that sticks
Speaker 1: out the most of the NBA is that it really
Speaker 1: was like a mom and pop store for so many years,
Speaker 1: and it was just like okay, like you want a job, great,
Speaker 1: you have a job. Like it was. It was that easy,
Speaker 1: what do you do? Copy perfect? But with the NBA Internet,
Speaker 1: that's what it was like. It was it was like oh,
Speaker 1: like you were you were an Internet CNN, come on
Speaker 1: in like hey like you you like I remember there
Speaker 1: was one, I mean more than a people I talked to.
Speaker 1: You got the job through like a temp agency. Like
Speaker 1: that's crazy to me, Like, oh, I you know it's
Speaker 1: like the temp agency job. Now are like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: you get to you get to work on you know,
Speaker 1: you get to work on like on an assembly line,
Speaker 1: or work in an office, get an office part but
Speaker 1: like yeah, exactly, but here like oh yeah, you want
Speaker 1: to be administrative assistant for the NBA. Like, that's that's
Speaker 1: how one of of my sources I think got her
Speaker 1: job was, Like can they just say, great, you have
Speaker 1: secretarial experience, awesome work for the NBA. Crazy. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break to pick your brain even
Speaker 1: more because I have a few more questions. I know,
Speaker 1: Jack and I have a few more questions. Uh, and
Speaker 1: we'll be right back after this with Pete Rowattle and
Speaker 1: we're back, um, just even hearing like all these stories,
Speaker 1: right Pete, it's like you realize too, you start off
Speaker 1: so small. But the one thing that is like the
Speaker 1: sort of uniting principle for all these people who are
Speaker 1: working on the league very early on is just passion
Speaker 1: and dedication. Like it seems like people who are in
Speaker 1: a world and let people are like the NBA, I
Speaker 1: don't know, and these people like no, no, no, this
Speaker 1: is great. You gotta watch it. Just give it a
Speaker 1: little more context. People are gonna love it. And what
Speaker 1: they believed is clearly born out and what we're witnessing
Speaker 1: today absolutely. Do you think like that was something that
Speaker 1: was unique and because of it, like it's starting at
Speaker 1: a place that was felt a little tenuous or unpredictable
Speaker 1: helped kind of build into this just sort of like
Speaker 1: pillar of culture that we have. Now, that's a great question.
Speaker 1: I absolutely think yes, I think I think the fact
Speaker 1: that it's so many people that are passionate about the
Speaker 1: n b A and also that we're that were passionate
Speaker 1: about what about David Sturton's vision for what the NBA
Speaker 1: could be where it could just be this entertainment with
Speaker 1: interlocking properties all working hand in hand to produce merchandise,
Speaker 1: television shows and a game stadium entertainment. Yeah, there absolutely
Speaker 1: was that passionate and David sturn was the was the
Speaker 1: zealot of that. He was he was the preacher saying, hey,
Speaker 1: this is what I want to do, this is what
Speaker 1: we can do, going along with me for this ride.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't just with employees, it was also it's
Speaker 1: also with potential advertisers where it's like, hey, you know
Speaker 1: I can't, we can't do this, not you guys. And
Speaker 1: if if you come with us, like we will give
Speaker 1: you our bat, will work with you to the point
Speaker 1: you'll never want to leave. But it's funny, like the
Speaker 1: passion thing too, I've seen that a couple of times
Speaker 1: now with like with more with sports that are trying
Speaker 1: to I guess enter the mainstream. Like the sports is
Speaker 1: big on that. I think I have a lot of
Speaker 1: people that is passionate about that across. I think it's
Speaker 1: starting to kind of get you know, get those wheels
Speaker 1: turning of the w n B A. I think is
Speaker 1: it is another example of that. But it's funny with
Speaker 1: the NBA, like that was the one thing talking to people.
Speaker 1: People loved him because he was so passionate and he
Speaker 1: led by example. I mean, he was the guy that
Speaker 1: was just was first and last to leave and he lived,
Speaker 1: breathed and h n b A. And I think when
Speaker 1: you have someone who's that inspired and it's so willing
Speaker 1: to be a collaborator and wants to foster a family atmosphere,
Speaker 1: you're gonna you're gonna develop a very very loyal army.
Speaker 1: And to this day there are people that I love
Speaker 1: the man, you know, unabashedly. So you cover mainly like
Speaker 1: the eighties and nineties, like the Rise from the point
Speaker 1: that we were just talking about, where you know, the
Speaker 1: announcers were like a relatively some all our fellow with
Speaker 1: the number ten on his tank top brings us up
Speaker 1: doing a sort of bouncy thing with the ball, leeping
Speaker 1: like a frog. Holy cal leaps in the errand does
Speaker 1: a neat little twirly thing with the ball and it
Speaker 1: hot damn goes in the goes in the hoop. He
Speaker 1: didn't even look at the man. He passed the ball too. Um.
Speaker 1: But so you you kind of take us up through
Speaker 1: the early nineties, But are there players from that era
Speaker 1: who you think would have benefited the most from social
Speaker 1: media where highlights are clipped and posted within a couple
Speaker 1: of minutes, and then also like where your personality can
Speaker 1: kind of shine through. Oh yeah to me, Julius Serving.
Speaker 1: I think I think Julius Serving would have been a
Speaker 1: complete marvel if you had social media and all the
Speaker 1: the distribution that we have today with the NBA and
Speaker 1: all professional sports. Because again, it's funny as time goes on.
Speaker 1: And I know if you guys have noticed this, but
Speaker 1: like when I was growing up, you heard, you know,
Speaker 1: Julie Irving was sort of talking about the way that
Speaker 1: I think kids talking about Michael Jordan now. But but
Speaker 1: when when I was a kid, was like, oh, you
Speaker 1: should have seen Elgin Baylor play you should have seen
Speaker 1: Oscar Robertson play, and those those guys always seemed like
Speaker 1: mythical figures that were kind of handed down from you know,
Speaker 1: from from you know, generation to generation, like an oral
Speaker 1: traditional Yeah, and Julius Irving is sort is for sort
Speaker 1: of ending the spear now, And it's not so much
Speaker 1: because I think it's a couple of reasons. I think,
Speaker 1: a the highlights aren't as readily. There aren't as many
Speaker 1: highlights as Jordan had. I mean, Julie didn't have like
Speaker 1: a thousand videotapes I know, like six dr J plays,
Speaker 1: but I had those memorized perfectly, the scoop of the
Speaker 1: basket like reverse shot like there, and there are a
Speaker 1: handful that are you know, and yeah, I can recall
Speaker 1: them with photographic precision, but I don't know that much
Speaker 1: Like I've never watched a full game that he played
Speaker 1: in like exactly. I'm like, I knew he wore converse
Speaker 1: and dunked any a great mustache, like one of the
Speaker 1: all time best mustaches. Um. But but yeah, I think
Speaker 1: with with Julius, you know now he's entering that phase
Speaker 1: where if you talk to ah, I don't know anybody,
Speaker 1: maybe under the age of thirty and you mentioned Julius Irving,
Speaker 1: you might be talking about biblical character. It's like, oh
Speaker 1: that it's soh But so I think if you had
Speaker 1: the publicIt machine, and you had the coverage, and you
Speaker 1: had social media, I think I think Julius Irving would
Speaker 1: be would be even more of a of an icon
Speaker 1: of figure than he is now. But I think the
Speaker 1: sad part is is that in especially the A B,
Speaker 1: A like, there are so many players now that we
Speaker 1: don't really we don't really have any highlights of them
Speaker 1: are very few. Like David Thompson is a good example.
Speaker 1: You know, he was a guy that was Michael Jordan's hero.
Speaker 1: And how many David Thompson highights do you see? You know,
Speaker 1: how how many George Gervin highlights do you see? I
Speaker 1: mean there there aren't there aren't that many. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, Julius to me is the guy that if
Speaker 1: he had today's publicity buttressing, he would be. He'd be amazing,
Speaker 1: he would he would be everyone would know who he is.
Speaker 1: Already great at branding with the name Dr Jay, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if he came up with that,
Speaker 1: but he certainly used it well, although I did look
Speaker 1: it up and he's not a real doctor, so that
Speaker 1: might have heard him because with internet fact checking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's also like three credits of his doctorate. But we'll
Speaker 1: h you know, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll let it fly on.
Speaker 1: We get it. He had his attention split, and it
Speaker 1: happens for the best of us, for sure. I think
Speaker 1: it's funny that even like when you bring up George Gervin,
Speaker 1: because when you say that, like that reminds me of
Speaker 1: the first basketball memories I had where my dad seemed
Speaker 1: like some time traveler. I remember one of the All
Speaker 1: Star games, like the three point contest, George Gervin comes
Speaker 1: out and like, George the iceman Gervin, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: who's this dude? Looks like grandpa, my dad, that's George.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what, Like, I don't see is he
Speaker 1: in a Nike commercial? Because I don't know this man.
Speaker 1: And but to the combination of hearing my dad be like, wow,
Speaker 1: this is George Gurban and then obviously no thing that
Speaker 1: there was some deference paid at a three point contest,
Speaker 1: and like, wow, the gaps that I have in my
Speaker 1: knowledge just because of where I am on the timeline,
Speaker 1: are like, yeah, they do end up kind of you know,
Speaker 1: these people sort of vanish. And it's wild to think
Speaker 1: that now because of the amount of like footage and
Speaker 1: content that there is about people that like, we may
Speaker 1: be getting out of an era where you know, people
Speaker 1: are gonna be like Devin George. Who is Devin George.
Speaker 1: I'm like he was a lakerly don't talk about that
Speaker 1: much because he didn't have all the highlights, but he was.
Speaker 1: He was an integral part exactly. It moves so quickly
Speaker 1: now and again it's going to the point. I mean,
Speaker 1: the thing that shocks me is it was a few
Speaker 1: years ago. This people like five or six years ago.
Speaker 1: The Ringer ran a story about where they they quizzed
Speaker 1: players at the rookie game at the first year rookie
Speaker 1: about Michael Jordan's and nearly all of them knew him
Speaker 1: either from Space jam or from like the or from
Speaker 1: the gear. And it's just it'sn't but you're right, but
Speaker 1: all these all these guys that are lesser known this
Speaker 1: fall through the cracks like and you know, and it's
Speaker 1: and again I think it's just it's just a bypark
Speaker 1: of how fast things move now and how much stuff
Speaker 1: we're getting. And that's great. Look, I'm an NBA fan
Speaker 1: and I will I'm not I'm never gonna turn out
Speaker 1: more basketball. But the problem is that the faster you go,
Speaker 1: the quirk, you leave the past behind. And it's just
Speaker 1: it's unfortunately, it's it's just it's a byproduct of of
Speaker 1: just how things are now, which is which is which
Speaker 1: is a bit sad. Yeah, do you? I mean we
Speaker 1: we've talked before about the idea that the league is progressive,
Speaker 1: like each successive generation of players is building their game
Speaker 1: on top of like what they've seen previous generations do.
Speaker 1: Like what do you think about the direction the league
Speaker 1: is headed? Like did you see the clips of Victor
Speaker 1: wimbang Yama. I'm too old and I have two little
Speaker 1: time left to moan about how the game used to
Speaker 1: be played, or like, oh, the purity of the game
Speaker 1: is being ruined. I don't believe in that, because again,
Speaker 1: if you go back in history, if you read any books,
Speaker 1: you know, dunking was once considered outrageous and was an
Speaker 1: outlaw act. You know, you know, behind the back past
Speaker 1: was considered sinful. So the game evolves and I think,
Speaker 1: to me, what I what I what I like to
Speaker 1: do When I watch a game, I watch it for fun.
Speaker 1: I am just I'm escaping into the drama and watching
Speaker 1: the abilities of men and women do things with a
Speaker 1: basketball that I can't imagine doing myself. I think it's
Speaker 1: going to break down and just the act itself and
Speaker 1: just be amazed by that. Like I don't understand people
Speaker 1: who are always who just always complain about the way
Speaker 1: things used to be or or or or get tied
Speaker 1: up in the game being played now and because a
Speaker 1: their their flaws and access to each era of basketball.
Speaker 1: Every era basketball has the good things, that is bad things,
Speaker 1: but it's also you're also diminishing just what you're seeing.
Speaker 1: Like a guy Joel and Beech should not be playing
Speaker 1: basketball the way he does. Jana shouldn't play basketball the
Speaker 1: way he does. These guys are moving like guards and
Speaker 1: they're doing things outside pribling that are amazing, And I
Speaker 1: think it's just to me. I love the direction of
Speaker 1: the game is going, and there's always something to appreciate.
Speaker 1: You know, are there parts of the game that I
Speaker 1: don't like now? Yeah, of course, But if you told,
Speaker 1: if you talk to me fifteen years ago, twenty five
Speaker 1: years ago, but you pulled it the same thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting that that that is something that jumps out
Speaker 1: to you in your history just reading the people people
Speaker 1: getting because your history does cover the introduction of the
Speaker 1: three point show. Yeah, like what first it's the dunk
Speaker 1: shot and now it's the day three point what's next?
Speaker 1: It's witchcraft, I tell you. Yeah, that was one of
Speaker 1: the charges in the sale which with dunk shots. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Louis Dampierre was was was was part of the juror um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know. And that's and that's the fun part about
Speaker 1: about what makes the league so cool is that it
Speaker 1: is progressive. It does change, you know, and and and
Speaker 1: that's also how you get you get young fans. But
Speaker 1: the problem with the the there are two sides of
Speaker 1: that coin. If I can still heat for the fifteen
Speaker 1: million time, is that you recruit by changing and by
Speaker 1: evolving the way the NBA does and basketball in general
Speaker 1: does you garner new fans all the time, but you
Speaker 1: also isolate the old school fans, you know, because again
Speaker 1: there's there's constant evolution, and the folks that grew up
Speaker 1: with basketball in the seventies or eighties or nineties, get
Speaker 1: more miffed while you recruit to the you know, to
Speaker 1: the kids of today. So I don't know. To me,
Speaker 1: if you acknowance the fact that evolution and change is
Speaker 1: part of the NBA's ethos, you can watch a game
Speaker 1: without losing your mind. Yeah I can. I can't speak
Speaker 1: for everyone else listening. I mean I can do it.
Speaker 1: I think you have to spend a tremendous amount of
Speaker 1: energy to watch the game evolved and then be like
Speaker 1: this is not for me, really really yeah, yeah, God,
Speaker 1: if I have to look at another seven plus gangly
Speaker 1: guy with a stroke sweeter than I don't know what
Speaker 1: We're gonna lose it. I don't want to see stuff
Speaker 1: like that again. Like when I was growing up in
Speaker 1: the nineties, like you never I never when I was
Speaker 1: watching started watching basketl Nights, you never saw that. You
Speaker 1: never saw I never saw Patrick doing Jack of three.
Speaker 1: Maybe in desperation he would, but it was like a meme.
Speaker 1: If a center made a three, you're like, remember that one.
Speaker 1: It was like a top ten sports center play right,
Speaker 1: And and now it's just the fact that this is
Speaker 1: done in the game, and it's just it's normal now
Speaker 1: I think it's amazing that I'll never get tired of
Speaker 1: a seven ft five dude get hitting corner threes. I'll
Speaker 1: never tire of it. And again, not to sound like
Speaker 1: a basketball um apostle here, but the game, the game
Speaker 1: remains the same. It's still who was more points, It's
Speaker 1: still about passing the ball, playing defense. But the change
Speaker 1: is what makes it so interesting. Because again, like, what's
Speaker 1: the biggest criticism that baseball has that it's been the
Speaker 1: same forever. They never do anything different. It's you know,
Speaker 1: and then when they do, you know what happens that
Speaker 1: the pierists lose their minds Like oh, runner on second
Speaker 1: base one, geez, that young man's hat is backwards during
Speaker 1: batting practice, a bad flip. Yeah, it's crazy. And again
Speaker 1: like it's there, you know. I know. For me, I
Speaker 1: think being connected with the NBA and watching it and
Speaker 1: talking about with folks like you, it's keeps me young,
Speaker 1: it keeps me involved, it keeps me, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's fun. I I don't I don't. I don't get
Speaker 1: people who just are You can appreciate the good old days,
Speaker 1: and you can appreciate the fifties and sixties, but you
Speaker 1: know it's it's perfectly okay to just you can you
Speaker 1: can also appreciate what's happening now, like they're not mutually exclusive.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the only person who wouldn't like
Speaker 1: it is somehow threatened by like the game's getting better
Speaker 1: and in their mind the like, no, in my mind,
Speaker 1: I could have beat Charles Barkley one on one, but job,
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm gonna What is this guy? Like?
Speaker 1: Do you have to embrace it and enjoy it? Because
Speaker 1: again that's the root, that's like the reason why we
Speaker 1: watch sport is to then be inspired by these acts
Speaker 1: of athletic performance that we could have fathomed to do
Speaker 1: in our own Exactly. It's about the new like it's
Speaker 1: about it's about seeing something you've never seen before. And
Speaker 1: and John Moran like that's another great example. And again
Speaker 1: it's it's not as if big guys hitting three is
Speaker 1: always seems to be the point of emphasis that um
Speaker 1: that wags fall back to, like oh there you know
Speaker 1: seven ft one should be at the back, But there's
Speaker 1: so many great smaller players. They get more athletic, they
Speaker 1: get better. The point guards are the people who I'm
Speaker 1: looking at him being like, man, the lead really is
Speaker 1: progressive because of like how cool like some of these
Speaker 1: new young point guards are. I mean when Bi Yama.
Speaker 1: I we we mentioned when ba Yama pretty off handedly,
Speaker 1: and I think we've mentioned him once or twice before
Speaker 1: on the show. But for any listeners who don't know,
Speaker 1: he'll be draft eligible, I think next year. And about
Speaker 1: four or five months ago, he was like seven one
Speaker 1: and now he's seven ft five and you get to
Speaker 1: watch him get used to his body and like just
Speaker 1: be so smooth with it in like real time. Like
Speaker 1: there there are highlights and like game tapes where you
Speaker 1: watch it and it's like, oh, man, he seems like
Speaker 1: a seven ft five guy, and it's like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: because he just woke up seven five and now and
Speaker 1: then like three games later he he looks. It reminded
Speaker 1: me of when I would like play around on a
Speaker 1: small battle when I was playing in the league. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that reminded me. Was like, you guys remember my career, right,
Speaker 1: like when you would play around on like a little
Speaker 1: like nerf basket when you're a kid, and just like
Speaker 1: the joy of being like, oh, this is so much
Speaker 1: easier and this is so like could you imagine being
Speaker 1: this big, like that looks like the fun he's having
Speaker 1: in his seven ft five frame, and that evolution again,
Speaker 1: like you're saying like he started off, You're like, wow,
Speaker 1: that baby deer looks a little wobbly on its legs.
Speaker 1: And then you're like, I think it turned into Kevin Durant. Yeah,
Speaker 1: two games. If you're an NBA player at that height
Speaker 1: in like the eighties and nineties, like you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: what's George murrishwan doing? Yeah, and you're just that you're
Speaker 1: a bench presidence and you just you just put your
Speaker 1: button to paint and you block shock, you grab remaans.
Speaker 1: And the fact that the possibilities of the game have
Speaker 1: expanded where where someone that big, what their skill set,
Speaker 1: not just being relegated to a Mark Eaton type or
Speaker 1: George Morrison. That, I mean, that's incredible. That's like what
Speaker 1: a twenty five year are, right, I mean, not not
Speaker 1: that long. I feel like if you were that tall,
Speaker 1: not that long ago, your full time job was just
Speaker 1: taking pictures next to phone booths first size for like
Speaker 1: Beginness Book of World Records. People are like, wow, okaymn,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at this short pants. So longer than the
Speaker 1: tallest man's pants. But the team went to town, like
Speaker 1: the local reporter from the paper would come out there
Speaker 1: and just be like, yeah, someone who's seven foot seven.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's been a regular bed. Yeah, sitting
Speaker 1: on a bed, sitting in a car, shower. It's but
Speaker 1: it's it's again like it's the the NBA is I
Speaker 1: don't know, to me, the storylines and all those things
Speaker 1: that come out of it. It's even if you don't
Speaker 1: like the game, even if the games like it's for
Speaker 1: me like seven ft five teenager, and that arc of
Speaker 1: of of him having to adjust to a grown man's league,
Speaker 1: that's fascinating. I mean, that's that's a fascinating I mean
Speaker 1: that you can do, you can do like a whole
Speaker 1: you do a podcast based on that. Just don't like,
Speaker 1: you know, his experience is, what he's doing, what he's learning.
Speaker 1: It's you know, let's let's check us out St. Miles,
Speaker 1: Jack and Victor got mad. But there you go. Let's
Speaker 1: take a quick break and we'll be right back to
Speaker 1: get into the rapid fire round questions after this and
Speaker 1: we're back, and I do have a career action to issue.
Speaker 1: I know, usually podcasts like wait for a week to
Speaker 1: issue corrections. We're doing live corrections because I was wronging
Speaker 1: apparently Victor wembing Yama seven two on his latest chart.
Speaker 1: I saw seven five somewhere. Um, I think I heard
Speaker 1: it quoted as seven five. So I'm blaming that nameless.
Speaker 1: That's what we want. He stands like he is seven five,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, he he projects seven five. But also
Speaker 1: he's a tall seven too. There is a lot of
Speaker 1: news that we're not going to get to because you're
Speaker 1: so fun to talk about the history of the league with.
Speaker 1: But I mean, the Calves got Mitchell um more importantly,
Speaker 1: Montrez Harrold is landing in Philly. I think that's the
Speaker 1: that's everyone's talking about that. I love that movie. I
Speaker 1: love that movie. I mean again, like this guy was
Speaker 1: like two years ago, was like was he was he
Speaker 1: six Man of the Year, was in the running? Yeah
Speaker 1: he was, and then he just fell off the planet
Speaker 1: and knock. Yeah he's back with docs. So I mean,
Speaker 1: but that's all for the future, uh future episodes we'll see. Um.
Speaker 1: But because we do have to make time for the
Speaker 1: fastest segment in podcasting, it is the Miles and Jack
Speaker 1: Got Mad Boost. These rapid fire to close it out
Speaker 1: round of questioning. Um, so yeah, Miles, you wanna you
Speaker 1: want to prep him? I mean, what did I Did
Speaker 1: I go first last time? Or did you go first
Speaker 1: on the questions? Yeah? I try. I was just saying,
Speaker 1: like it prep him for how fast it's going to
Speaker 1: be and how you're right godly, I almost forgot get ready, Pete,
Speaker 1: because this is the rapid fire round of questions. This
Speaker 1: is the fastest segment. Now, what we're gonna do is
Speaker 1: we were just positive question to just react, Do not think,
Speaker 1: Do not give overly wordy answers because we want to
Speaker 1: just get through as many questions as possible. Do not
Speaker 1: tinker with the format, please, that's one thing we I
Speaker 1: shouldn't have had that glass of wine five weeks ago. Well,
Speaker 1: here we go, Uh start the clock. Okay, what happened
Speaker 1: last time? Did I go? You went first? Last time?
Speaker 1: But we did rock paper scissors? I think you keep
Speaker 1: beating me in rock paper. Let's just go for the
Speaker 1: sake of expedience. Why don't you go first? Okay? Are
Speaker 1: you sure? M I feel you want me to go.
Speaker 1: I just don't want to ruin the flow because you
Speaker 1: told him the direct all. I know that this is
Speaker 1: this is gonna be like the star Gates who Can
Speaker 1: in two thousand one, where the lights are just flashing
Speaker 1: at me, and so that just keep that, keep that
Speaker 1: image in your mind, or the image of a cowboy
Speaker 1: that just had something run by them, really fasten. The
Speaker 1: cartoon in their head is spinning around. Uh. Start started.
Speaker 1: We're asking all our guests for a few of their boldest, wildest,
Speaker 1: most ridiculously irresponsible predictions heading into the upcoming NBA season.
Speaker 1: What what you got, Let's see my prediction. I think
Speaker 1: the I think this is I think this is the
Speaker 1: last year for the Lakers. As your confessor constructed, I
Speaker 1: cannot see how this continues as it's being assembled. I
Speaker 1: don't know how Patrick Beverley fits into this. I don't
Speaker 1: know how Russell Westbrook becomes the number two guy, especially
Speaker 1: since he's getting older and isn't really much of a
Speaker 1: past first option. So that that's my bulls reason. I think.
Speaker 1: I think like you just don't make the playoffs and
Speaker 1: it ends after this year. It's a rebuild after this year.
Speaker 1: Still in a cartoon universe, Miles has steam shooting out
Speaker 1: of his ears. My hat blow off and spun into
Speaker 1: the air. Yeah all right, you know what, maybe we
Speaker 1: should just stop the section. So sorry, it's fine whatever,
Speaker 1: let's keep it going. Focus miles, um, what are we
Speaker 1: underrating about the upcoming season? You know, I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of rising stars, rising teams of focus goes
Speaker 1: somewhere and then there's a lot of people on the shadows.
Speaker 1: They're like, hold on, don't forget about them. I'll tell
Speaker 1: you what the Bucks. I think people are to rerating
Speaker 1: the books. I mean, look last year they when they
Speaker 1: face the Celtics, did have Chris Middleton. That's a huge
Speaker 1: part of their offense. Helps them spread the floor so
Speaker 1: that it was it isn't all in the honest I
Speaker 1: think that to me, I think that I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people are really aren't talking about the Bucks.
Speaker 1: And I think they're They're a team that I can
Speaker 1: see them making the finals again. And I think, you,
Speaker 1: honest is just one of those one of those super relentless,
Speaker 1: super competitive dudes that always wants to get better. And
Speaker 1: I think I think this year, I like to think
Speaker 1: that they make the finals. Cool and can we get
Speaker 1: one take where you talk about how we're underrating the Sixers?
Speaker 1: And Just. I guess you could keep the Chris Middleton
Speaker 1: take because the Sixers also didn't have Chris Middleton when
Speaker 1: they lost last year, UM and replace Janice with them.
Speaker 1: Now I'm just taking so I think that's a great take.
Speaker 1: I'm curious about the Clippers. I think I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think last year was a teams with solid chemistry
Speaker 1: sitting at bad year for the on quote super teams.
Speaker 1: I feel like we might be underrating what happens to
Speaker 1: these Clippers when Kauai and George are back and healthy,
Speaker 1: um and Just, I don't know, three years ago. We
Speaker 1: were watching clips of Kauai earlier this week and uh
Speaker 1: got me excited for you know what, Jack, you gotta
Speaker 1: really stop that. I'm sorry, this is a really rapid
Speaker 1: fire segment, so we can't just kind of you know,
Speaker 1: I was expecting. I was expecting, like to have bullets
Speaker 1: on my head here. This is very like, this is
Speaker 1: almost leisurely, so I don't know. Wait, hold on, this
Speaker 1: is going really fast. I don't this is actually fast.
Speaker 1: Second hold on, yeah, well check the clock. Okay, next question,
Speaker 1: you cannot select Luca or Jah. Let me get your
Speaker 1: best bet for m v P. This year. I think,
Speaker 1: I think, I think, I think Joel wins it this year.
Speaker 1: I like to think that the hardened MAXI Indeed triad
Speaker 1: is gonna work. I like to think that Harden to
Speaker 1: the boxcart Robertson in Milwaukee part of his career, give
Speaker 1: me more of a playmaker and a third option on
Speaker 1: the offense. And Matthews sort of Bob Dandridge young legs,
Speaker 1: you know, do it all kind of guy. And I
Speaker 1: just I love Embiid. I love Embiid. He's probably my
Speaker 1: favorite player because I'm sort of a closet Sexers fan. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so so Joel. I think Joel wins the MVP this year. Amazing.
Speaker 1: I love this. I love how this segment is going. Uh, Miles,
Speaker 1: and so why don't we just keep going? Man, this
Speaker 1: is just you and me talking now because Jabari and
Speaker 1: Miles have chosen to end the recording. But the Lakers
Speaker 1: still have the best uniforms in the NBA. And look,
Speaker 1: I think Lebron is gonna have another monster season. I
Speaker 1: just don't see how that team makes the playoffs. But look,
Speaker 1: look I'm a morn in my basement wearing a one
Speaker 1: dollar Cole shirt, So like, take my advice for whatever
Speaker 1: it's worth. So there you go, Miles. You guys look cute,
Speaker 1: but that's cool. What's that shirt you're wiping your tears
Speaker 1: off with the Lakers? Okay, speaking of predictions, what's more
Speaker 1: likely to happen? The New York Knicks make the playoffs
Speaker 1: or the Nets win the Eastern Conference? Nets when the
Speaker 1: Eastern Conference hold? Look hold, sorry about that? Uh, coach
Speaker 1: tip on the line. I'm not. I'm not the starting
Speaker 1: forward for the for the Knicks. I got a three year,
Speaker 1: forty five million dollar contract night. Uh no, Um, I
Speaker 1: feel that with my soul. That's how. That's how confidently
Speaker 1: I'm saying that. All right, Um, and final question, and
Speaker 1: this is important, Jack or mine. I'm Jack, I know,
Speaker 1: I know we've been talking for an hour. I kind
Speaker 1: of know how it. God man, it's like it's like
Speaker 1: asking me to choose, you know, if there's a fire,
Speaker 1: if I save my wife or my daughter. I can't
Speaker 1: to that question. Yeah, I'll tell you what do you
Speaker 1: have a coin hold on? You know what? Here's to
Speaker 1: you don't rapid fire A long pause. Well, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I have a pack of clear ninety one basketball cards.
Speaker 1: I can hear so here, let's get a player here. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, I have a Danny Ferry Calves card. If
Speaker 1: it lands, picture up. Yeah, I'm gonna go with Miles
Speaker 1: if it lands stats yeah, there we go, Here we
Speaker 1: go based up. Yes, I knew that Pete had some
Speaker 1: great insights. You know, I guess I need to get
Speaker 1: a jackhet. I mean the desperation of wearing a hat
Speaker 1: with your name on it when we're gonna I mean,
Speaker 1: come on, you know I didn't notice that you have
Speaker 1: your hare? Yeah? Hold on, Yeah, okay, you didn't. You
Speaker 1: might not have realized you noticed it. Answer this was
Speaker 1: It's called focus, and I'm focusing on being a good
Speaker 1: podcast host. I'm bossing on. I'm focusing on the rapid fire,
Speaker 1: which was more like a leisurely stroll. Whoa, So I'm
Speaker 1: just being a good committed guest. So sounds like your
Speaker 1: answer would be neither based on that. Oh man, well, Pete,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Uh from hanging
Speaker 1: time to prime time? Check it out? Wherever you get
Speaker 1: your books? Where can people find you and follow you?
Speaker 1: Check you out and hear you whatever? All that stuff? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean Twitter is pretty much where I hang out.
Speaker 1: That's where it's it's kind of my water cooler, and
Speaker 1: that's where I post a lot of my articles and
Speaker 1: musings and stuff. So yeah, at keep Proado ke E
Speaker 1: t E c r o A two Teas asn't Thomas
Speaker 1: oh a p Croado, that's pretty much where you can
Speaker 1: find everything. That's kind of my home base. I hope
Speaker 1: up a website soon, but I've been saying that since
Speaker 1: like the late nineties. But until then, until then, uh
Speaker 1: pe crowd is the best bet. And yeah, the book
Speaker 1: is still available pretty much every major bookstore, online, Brook
Speaker 1: and Mortar, what have you. So yeah, it's amazing. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. And that's been
Speaker 1: another episode of Miles and Jack God mad Man