Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to this episode of the
Speaker 1: weekly Zeitgeist. Uh, these are some of our favorite segments
Speaker 1: from this week, all edited together into one nonstop infotainment
Speaker 1: laugh Stravaganza. Uh Yeah, so, without further ADO, here is
Speaker 1: the weekly Zeitgeist. Hey, who's that? In our third seed,
Speaker 1: a very funny comedian, the host of the podcast the prodcast,
Speaker 1: pod yourself a gun, and now pod yourself the wire.
Speaker 1: It's Matt. I'm here, baby, I'm here and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: good to be back. You know, I was here just
Speaker 1: the other day and guys we're just like man, Matt,
Speaker 1: you've got to come back immediately because you just crushed
Speaker 1: it in the lead. Yeah, you know, more leave, more leave,
Speaker 1: the betters on the more lead time. I can get
Speaker 1: a little more lead time on that. And thanks for
Speaker 1: plugging the you know, the pod, pod yourself the wire,
Speaker 1: which is, you know, you were on pod yourself a gun,
Speaker 1: our Sopranos Rewatch Podcast, and Uh, we did all the
Speaker 1: episodes and now we're at the wire. So, uh, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna need both of you guys to come on and
Speaker 1: talk about the wire at some point. It is my
Speaker 1: favorite show. It's a great show. It's a great show.
Speaker 1: And here's the thing. If you're listening to this right
Speaker 1: now and you're like, Oh, I haven't seen those shows,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. You can still listen to the podcast.
Speaker 1: And if you're like, I don't want to listen to
Speaker 1: the podcast, that's fine. The most important thing is just
Speaker 1: giving us five stars in a review on the apple
Speaker 1: podcast store. That's all I care. Then press play on
Speaker 1: the episode and then muted and then walk away, because
Speaker 1: it's literally it's an active charity to do those things.
Speaker 1: Please help. I have a baby. Yeah, there there aren't
Speaker 1: that many movie TV podcasts that I will give the
Speaker 1: go ahead and listen to this and if you're not
Speaker 1: watching the show, but yours is one of them, because
Speaker 1: it is a comedy show and it's fun. It's fun
Speaker 1: to listen to. Although you should watch the fucking wire
Speaker 1: in the Spa, absolutely watch it's good to not watch
Speaker 1: those shows just because it's like, well, I mean, what, what?
Speaker 1: What else are you watching? What's in the way of those?
Speaker 1: Nothing you're watching is as good as either the Sopranos
Speaker 1: or the wire, and nothing you're listening to is as
Speaker 1: good as those two. REWATCH podcasts. Pot yourself a gun
Speaker 1: and bought yourself the wire. So please help with the
Speaker 1: obvious exception of the daily right, right, right, right, right, right, right.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say that. Right, yeah, don't we? We?
Speaker 1: I don't want to start a beef here, Matt, but no,
Speaker 1: there's no beef. But it's like, you know, you guys,
Speaker 1: you guys don't rewatch enough TV on this podect and
Speaker 1: I think it's been the main problem I've seen in
Speaker 1: various daily like guys comments sections like how come they're
Speaker 1: not talking about my favorite story? Just exact, completely misunderstanding
Speaker 1: it as a wire rewatch podcast. I don't remember any
Speaker 1: of these episodes about the wire where the Queen was dead.
Speaker 1: That is truly what you get when you, like, launch
Speaker 1: a podcast. The first few weeks of episodes, of reviews
Speaker 1: are just like, you know, reviewing a different podcast than
Speaker 1: you are titled. Made them think your show was going
Speaker 1: to be. Matt, I want to okay episodes I made.
Speaker 1: The one where the wire tapping goes completely hay wire
Speaker 1: and blows up in everybody's face. or Oh, Myer's first
Speaker 1: on screen gay kiss out there. Oh yeah, moments for me.
Speaker 1: We just we just did the first Omar Gay kiss episode.
Speaker 1: So unfortunately you can't do that one, but there's plenty
Speaker 1: of the wire goes hey wire episodes. That's the thing
Speaker 1: about the wires. Mostly a show about, you know, wires.
Speaker 1: Where are you crossed? Yeah, and they do, if you
Speaker 1: haven't seen it, they do constantly say things like this
Speaker 1: has gone hey wire and looks like we've got our
Speaker 1: wires crossed. Too much coffee for me. I'm wired. It's
Speaker 1: mostly a choice. Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a weird
Speaker 1: to have such a serious and important show be filled
Speaker 1: with random, self referentialtitular wire buttons. Oh Man, you know what?
Speaker 1: My favorite magazine is wired. anyways, let's solve this murder. Yeah, Joel,
Speaker 1: I'm so excited for the segments where you're can be
Speaker 1: coming on, telling us about all the movies you've pre
Speaker 1: screened for us and yeah, that that will all be
Speaker 1: happening soon. What is something from your search history that
Speaker 1: is revealing about who you are? Okay, yeah, so I
Speaker 1: tried to come up with something. So most of my
Speaker 1: search just rich, I never really looked at was about
Speaker 1: like things you can do with Tahini. So that's not
Speaker 1: that interesting. Like that's that's like the most interesting thing
Speaker 1: I had, or it's like who's that guy on the
Speaker 1: TV show? That's basically all I use it for. Is
Speaker 1: like when I'm watching TV, a google like you know
Speaker 1: who this character actor is, but my friend. So I
Speaker 1: was asking my friend last night and he's he was like, well,
Speaker 1: you could tell him. How much do you pe in
Speaker 1: your lifetime? That's something he could Google yesterday. This is
Speaker 1: a younger guy, he's like twenty four, so he's into
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. And IT Turns Out You pee
Speaker 1: about eighteen thousand gallons over the course of your life
Speaker 1: your average person, and that's about half a swimming pool.
Speaker 1: So no matter how hard you try your whole life,
Speaker 1: you could only fill half a swimming pool. I mean
Speaker 1: you could probably, like I feel like, you know, you
Speaker 1: could try harder and get up a little bit, but
Speaker 1: your average user, you know, I don't know. I'm like
Speaker 1: kind of Crestfallen hearing that. Don't that's not enough pe
Speaker 1: for me. I feel like I can do better than that.
Speaker 1: Is that not like swimming pool? Well, there's like an
Speaker 1: average swimming pool. I don't know what that means. Look
Speaker 1: at average swiming pool is thirty five thousand gallons. So
Speaker 1: I feel like I could fill the swimming pool by
Speaker 1: the end if I make it. If I'm making it
Speaker 1: like a long time. Yeah, if you work hard, stay
Speaker 1: hydrated and continue there. There is a power washer going
Speaker 1: in the background just for added effect. But your neighbor
Speaker 1: is trying to fill a pool right now. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: almost there, man, I'm almost there. I mean what? Because
Speaker 1: they say you do. Maybe you peep between four and
Speaker 1: ten times a day if everything's going right. Okay, is
Speaker 1: that right? That's what they say. It feels like a lot.
Speaker 1: Four in ten. I guess ten feels like a lot.
Speaker 1: Four feels but maybe not. But we have different size bladders,
Speaker 1: we have different you know, our you know are our peak.
Speaker 1: We all come from different P backgrounds, you know. So
Speaker 1: sometimes you'd like to be and then the minute you
Speaker 1: have a sensation. Other Times you're working and you're like,
Speaker 1: I think I get away with a couple more. Yeah, hours, yeah,
Speaker 1: just burst like to it's speeds. If you've ever heard
Speaker 1: this show and been like are they on like one
Speaker 1: point five time, like what? What? Why is this double speed?
Speaker 1: That's you're doing. You're about the show's about Your Rat pee.
Speaker 1: That's me. That's me, having to tea. Yeah, but anyways,
Speaker 1: fascinating stuff. I figured I had to fire. I figured
Speaker 1: that Hee's gonna do something about how how much we
Speaker 1: pee in our lifetimes. I just you knew that coming in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm also curious. What can you do with Tehiny, though.
Speaker 1: I'm also interested in me, I ate. I started eating these,
Speaker 1: like not because I'm like a particularly healthy person at all,
Speaker 1: like but I just started eating these macrobiotic lunches years
Speaker 1: ago that are like, you know, just steam vegetables and
Speaker 1: like Tofu and this techini sauce, and I got like
Speaker 1: everything else. You know, kind of get sleepy after lunch
Speaker 1: and this would just feel like running through a wall,
Speaker 1: and so I don't know. Then I got obsessed with tehiny.
Speaker 1: I like I could put tiny on anything, like just
Speaker 1: you know. So I'm always trying to figure out different
Speaker 1: versions of and again, that's why I didn't choose it,
Speaker 1: because was kind of boring. You know. I just like
Speaker 1: I'm like, can you put teeny instead of, you know,
Speaker 1: mustard on this thing? And you know, like just trying
Speaker 1: to come up with different yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: love Tahini and I when I remember when I found
Speaker 1: out it's like in desserts too. I was like, this
Speaker 1: thing is the most fucking malleable sauce I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: They make a like a healthy Nantela that my wife ordered,
Speaker 1: but it's all it's all says to me to heiny
Speaker 1: based and there's like a little chocolate in it, but
Speaker 1: it's great. It's like it's amazing. I gotta remember the
Speaker 1: brand name, but I like to have the jar. The
Speaker 1: chocolate hummas really fucks me up because it does taste
Speaker 1: so good, but I don't know, like my brain doesn't
Speaker 1: know what to do with it. That really are you
Speaker 1: making a job? Yeah, chocolate hummas. No, no, no, chocolate,
Speaker 1: this is like something you can get it Ralph's. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: for the first time, like we're doing too much trader Joe's.
Speaker 1: And then every listener was like you think it looks
Speaker 1: and sounds fucked up, and then you'd eat it and
Speaker 1: then you realize you are fucked up. Then you realize
Speaker 1: you are the one. You are the fuck up one, yeah,
Speaker 1: othern the other reason I bring it up is the assault.
Speaker 1: Have you ever had like a millionaire bar with Tahini
Speaker 1: and Caramel? My God, you make your own salted caramel
Speaker 1: with like a cookie base and like this Caramel Tahini
Speaker 1: filling and you gets like Vegan, excellent dessert. Wait, what
Speaker 1: do you mean? You make your own? What do you
Speaker 1: what is someone? So the second I've never had. I've
Speaker 1: never bought a millionaire bar, but someone like made it
Speaker 1: like a home recipe, like they made it on their own,
Speaker 1: and ever since then it's one of my favorite desserts
Speaker 1: that I've had involving Tahini. All Right, I'm googling that
Speaker 1: right after millionaire bars. Yeah, all right, wow, millionaire bar.
Speaker 1: I've never even heard of that. Yeah, I maxed out
Speaker 1: at the grand bar. What is something you think is overrated?
Speaker 1: Oh wait, what did I write down? What's something I think? Oh,
Speaker 1: this is controversial. So I did not think I was
Speaker 1: going to jump right into controversy. That's something that, as
Speaker 1: an expert, I've leave US overrated. Is Recycling. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: you didn't think I was going to say that. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying don't recycle, but if you if you learn
Speaker 1: more about that quote recycle. Effective recycling is, you will
Speaker 1: learn that it is a freaking disaster. Um, the whole
Speaker 1: system is a hot mess and recycling does not reach
Speaker 1: or even come close to reaching the goals we think
Speaker 1: it does. In a lot of ways there's an argument
Speaker 1: it does more harm than good, like it takes a
Speaker 1: lot of fossil fuel emissions to recycle things, like to
Speaker 1: turn like aluminum or glass into new aluminum and glass.
Speaker 1: It actually, like we have to pollute a lot to
Speaker 1: get that done. There's like so many issues with it.
Speaker 1: So a solution. Please keep recycling, but like even better,
Speaker 1: reduce your consumption and reuse the things that you consume.
Speaker 1: So like emphasis on reduce and reuse. Recycling is overrated.
Speaker 1: I was I was shamed by my reusable shopping bags,
Speaker 1: like the thick plastic ones that a lot of the
Speaker 1: stores got around, like the thin bag bandwid. They're like, well,
Speaker 1: now we give reusable ones out, and I was just
Speaker 1: like I could make a submarine if I melted all
Speaker 1: this plastic down like full size stick. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: don't throw it away too, because part it is like
Speaker 1: you can't recycle this ship and I'm like I don't
Speaker 1: want to waste it. So then eventually I am able
Speaker 1: to use those a little bit better, but now I
Speaker 1: always bring my big ass like reusable bag canvas to yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because, yes,
Speaker 1: I've I've been thoroughly just put into a state of
Speaker 1: panic over like how terrible I am with that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. Reduce and reuse. That's the way. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's wild how much packaging stuff too, like says it
Speaker 1: has like a recycling logo on it. Yet you have
Speaker 1: to go take some things like specialized places. You can't
Speaker 1: just put that in like your city recycling cancer. I learned,
Speaker 1: you will die. I recently learned again I has got
Speaker 1: a whole like proper education on this, so now I
Speaker 1: can speak as an expert. I've recently learned that in
Speaker 1: like several states in this country it is legal to
Speaker 1: put a recycling symbol on anything, even if it's not recyclable,
Speaker 1: and people use the loophole. It's just good market for recycling.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like it's kind of like saying, like
Speaker 1: if you can figure out a way to recycle this,
Speaker 1: go ahead, but we're we don't have a way. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's wild, it is. It is so exactly, so American anyway. So, like,
Speaker 1: don't think you're doing something by recycling. It is overrated.
Speaker 1: There are better ways. Reduced Reuse at a minimum I
Speaker 1: just like to collect those plastic bags that have the
Speaker 1: big recycling thing on it, because it proves that I'm
Speaker 1: into I'm here to save the Earth. Many of those
Speaker 1: conscious yeah, what some of you think is underrated, underrated
Speaker 1: gravel bikes, which, Um, is a type of bike, in
Speaker 1: between bike. Yeah, the in between bike. It's like more comfortable,
Speaker 1: because I was shopping for a bicycle and I was
Speaker 1: trying to decide. I've been like cycling a lot more
Speaker 1: and I wanted to up my bike game. So I
Speaker 1: was looking at these really expensive bikes and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't really know if I can spend this type,
Speaker 1: because bikes are really expensive, if I can spend this
Speaker 1: money on it. And basically, what I was told is
Speaker 1: that for what I do, like what fifty to sixties,
Speaker 1: seventy miles or a a week or whatever, like it's good
Speaker 1: to have. Yeah, that's right, and that's and yeah, where
Speaker 1: are you going to give up your car? No, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I have I drive it around on my car. I
Speaker 1: got a bike for my car and I put up
Speaker 1: my car and I drive it around fifty to seventy.
Speaker 1: Do you keep the doometer on so that like just
Speaker 1: you're riding that fast. This P so cool. I put
Speaker 1: on the Apple Watch Um, and so, basically, I what
Speaker 1: I learned is that a gravel bike, especially now, because
Speaker 1: streets are just such awful ship and you are so
Speaker 1: streets are gravel with big holes in them. And essentially
Speaker 1: it has a larger, slightly larger tire and it's a hybrid,
Speaker 1: so you can still go fast on the road if
Speaker 1: you want to, like, you know, if that's something you're into,
Speaker 1: but also when you go to these bumpy, more hazardous
Speaker 1: terrain things, you know like you are still comfortable, like
Speaker 1: you're not going to be shaken out of your mind. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're looking for a bike and you're not trying
Speaker 1: to like enter a major race, I I've really, really
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. It's a road bike you don't have to
Speaker 1: trip about if you start seeing dirt in front of you,
Speaker 1: and it's a mountain bike that won't feel super fucking
Speaker 1: slow just on asphalt. Yeah, perfectly, but yeah, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: and look shout out all the bikes that gang, because
Speaker 1: I was. I was also, I gotta buy recently, but
Speaker 1: I got electric bike just to kind of like zip
Speaker 1: around like where I live. So I don't have to
Speaker 1: use my car. I was also looking at that thing.
Speaker 1: My God, Damn, these bikes for so much fucking money.
Speaker 1: But then at the end of the day you're like,
Speaker 1: if I'M gonna put a lot of time on it,
Speaker 1: then like you can kind of begin to rationalize, like
Speaker 1: why a quality bike is that? Yeah, I'm not. I
Speaker 1: don't it will be a long time since I buy
Speaker 1: a bike that is thousands of dollars. Is there anyway?
Speaker 1: Just everything is expensive right now, like I I feel
Speaker 1: like everyone, everyone I talked to WHO's like in the
Speaker 1: market for something. Like my car lease is coming up
Speaker 1: and I like went and met with a Volvo dealer
Speaker 1: and they were like yeah, so you're looking at like
Speaker 1: it'll be like to at least two times what you
Speaker 1: used to pay for current car for the past three years,
Speaker 1: like at least two times. They're like yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: the way the market is right now, is it? Well,
Speaker 1: the cars are right now, especially because of the tech
Speaker 1: supply chain and stuff, but that's definitely taking out. Where
Speaker 1: are we trusting that? I feel like we just gave
Speaker 1: everybody the license. We were just like inflation, and then
Speaker 1: everyone was like dope and raise their prices like three
Speaker 1: times the I still go by the same thing where
Speaker 1: I'm like if it's too much, I'm like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm doing that. I'm good, I'm good. I went to
Speaker 1: this one place where they were showing me a bike.
Speaker 1: It was six thousand dollars and in my vanity I'm
Speaker 1: like maybe these big legs of mine deserve as thousands,
Speaker 1: which is not even it would financially ruin me in
Speaker 1: my body, like legs like those. Nah, you're gonna need
Speaker 1: one of these six thousand dollar guys. And then I
Speaker 1: started blushing and I lost my ability to see. And
Speaker 1: that's how that's how you get me. And and they
Speaker 1: have like electric like the brakes were, the shifters were electrics,
Speaker 1: so you don't have to press the shifter too hard.
Speaker 1: And there's still a bike that you peddle luxury, which
Speaker 1: is crazy. It's a crazy luxury. And I went to
Speaker 1: this place called a t x bikes in Austin and
Speaker 1: they like found me a bike. It's like, you don't
Speaker 1: need any of this ship, like just get this bike,
Speaker 1: and I did, and it's just get spike, take those
Speaker 1: plumpers coming out of your pelvis and put them on
Speaker 1: this bike and I was like that's the most disgusting
Speaker 1: way to speak I've heard. Oh Man, uh, let's see.
Speaker 1: And so, all right, let's take a quick break, we'll
Speaker 1: come back. We'll talk about the return of Q. and
Speaker 1: we're back and we are joined by superproducer, Trisian mccarrygee
Speaker 1: too good to be here. Yeah, so you, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: we're reading through Dr Ray's work and listening to her
Speaker 1: podcast and you begged us to come on to talk
Speaker 1: to her about just kind of yeah, I mean that
Speaker 1: you put together a nice story, just like highlighting some
Speaker 1: of the really fascinating aspects of her work. So you
Speaker 1: want to change through it? Yes, of course. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I was reading about your work, Doctor A, and
Speaker 1: it was amazing. First of all, I would recommend that
Speaker 1: everyone listens to your podcast, going wild, as the name right,
Speaker 1: going wild with ray grant, named it after myself, smart.
Speaker 1: And so I was reading, I was seeing all these
Speaker 1: really adorable pictures of you with baby bear cubs and
Speaker 1: with like snakes and lemurs and all these other animals.
Speaker 1: It was great, Um, but as I was, as I
Speaker 1: was looking through these photos and just reading about your work, Um,
Speaker 1: in you know, this hard science part of it, as
Speaker 1: well as environmental justice. Um, I was just thinking a
Speaker 1: lot about people of color in nature in these fields
Speaker 1: that focus on the outdoors. I love the outdoors. I
Speaker 1: really like long distance cycling and trekking and all these
Speaker 1: other adventures for type things, but it's so rare that
Speaker 1: I see other people of Color, Um, while I'm doing
Speaker 1: these things. So I know that you've also talked about
Speaker 1: this a lot. I wanted to look into why this is,
Speaker 1: you know, the history behind people of color feeling unwelcome
Speaker 1: in the outdoors and what we can do about it today. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you were talking about a book that you read, Black
Speaker 1: and Brown faces in America's wild places. Yeah, so it
Speaker 1: was just this book that I came across a long
Speaker 1: time ago and it was just the most simple concept.
Speaker 1: It was just photos of people of Color in nature,
Speaker 1: like happy walking, you know the greenery. Imagine that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like and I was actually shocked to see it because
Speaker 1: it made me so happy first of all. But I
Speaker 1: was like, why does this look weird? It shouldn't look weird, like,
Speaker 1: why has society made something to marvel at? You know what?
Speaker 1: Pressure there are some really beautiful photos of Dr Martin
Speaker 1: Luther King and his family in recreating in nature. And,
Speaker 1: you know, ever see them, right, like, we always say
Speaker 1: the same we see the same pictures of Luther King
Speaker 1: and like these photos are beautiful and they also seem
Speaker 1: like like strange, like Oh, weird, like you know family. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like like in like a in the forest. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just it's society has given us this idea that, like,
Speaker 1: you know, we've been socialized to believe that people of
Speaker 1: color don't exist in nature. Were like urban only. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and like internalized it to the point where I remember
Speaker 1: being like not, I don't do that. Like white friends
Speaker 1: would be like we're gonna go camp. I'm like, now,
Speaker 1: who don't camp like this? It's not. I'm not. I
Speaker 1: have no concept of people that look like me doing that.
Speaker 1: So it didn't never occurred to me to engage with
Speaker 1: nature like in that sense too. But I'm sure, like
Speaker 1: anything in this country, we have, you know, we can
Speaker 1: all we can draw lines back to an earlier time
Speaker 1: where we completely misunderstood our relationship to each other or
Speaker 1: the land. Right, right. Yeah, it's interesting because I can
Speaker 1: remember even a few years ago, in ads for companies
Speaker 1: like Arii or Patagonia, all these outdoors brands. Um, it
Speaker 1: was all white people and now they've slowly started to
Speaker 1: kind of realize that it's an issue. Um, and you
Speaker 1: see more people of Color in those ads, which gives
Speaker 1: me a lot of hope. I mean I remember the
Speaker 1: first time I saw a South Asian person in Moront
Speaker 1: of those ads and it was great. It's like another one,
Speaker 1: but yeah, so it's changing. But if we go way
Speaker 1: back and we think about this idea of nature in general,
Speaker 1: we think about the white settlers that came to what
Speaker 1: is now the United States and how they really just
Speaker 1: tore apart the lifestyle of indigenous peoples who lived on
Speaker 1: the land before then. They thought if land is something
Speaker 1: that needed to be protected, preserved, something that you live
Speaker 1: in harmony with rather than exploit, in this very capitalist
Speaker 1: settler mindset, that eventually became the norm. And when settlers came,
Speaker 1: they introduced this idea of an untouched wilderness, you know,
Speaker 1: just trees and forests and rivers somewhere where nobody lived.
Speaker 1: And if we dig a little deeper into that idea
Speaker 1: you just see that that's not true, because there are
Speaker 1: people who live with the land, Um, and they live
Speaker 1: on it, but it's still, you know, it's still respected. Um.
Speaker 1: And a proponent of this idea was John Muir, who
Speaker 1: is a very famous environmentalist. I'm sure everyone's heard his name,
Speaker 1: M Yep, and he said that this land should be
Speaker 1: set aside for recreation, to fulfill an emotional need for
Speaker 1: wild places, which I thought was just an absolutely ridiculous
Speaker 1: statement because there were so many people, especially indigenous people,
Speaker 1: who were kicked off that land and like what about
Speaker 1: their emotional needs and what about their emotional fulfillment? Um. So, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but his like his him constantly like romanticizing like the
Speaker 1: wild lands that were basically free of indigenous people, you know,
Speaker 1: really opened the door for this kind of like exclusionary
Speaker 1: thinking and like who gets to enjoy the environment? Like
Speaker 1: would always juxtapose like the beauty of the landscapes but
Speaker 1: these dirty faced, half happy, you know, like just all
Speaker 1: kinds of like terrible derogatory statements about indigenous people, black people,
Speaker 1: and he always would say like he's a quote that
Speaker 1: the indigenous people quote seemed to have no right place
Speaker 1: in the landscape, which we saw that kind of like
Speaker 1: extend to like like especially like in colonial Africa, as
Speaker 1: like game reserves are opened up. The same idea of like, oh,
Speaker 1: people have lived here for centuries and I don't know,
Speaker 1: this is a theme park for white tourists. Like the
Speaker 1: Massai people were just kicked out of certain place, like
Speaker 1: there's a lot of history of just like the same
Speaker 1: thinking of like hi, nature, nobody should be here unless
Speaker 1: it's us just looking at it to just take a
Speaker 1: load off. And and that's also like so reactionary. Like
Speaker 1: I agree with what Y'all are both saying, and I
Speaker 1: think John Muiror is such a good example, because he
Speaker 1: is he and his way are romanticized in our society
Speaker 1: because he like he was like thinking about solutions right,
Speaker 1: like there was a problem and he's like, Oh, a
Speaker 1: solution is to do this. But I I get frustrated when,
Speaker 1: like I feel like no one talks about the problem.
Speaker 1: He was trying to find a solution for right. The
Speaker 1: problem was that, like white men on this continent like
Speaker 1: decimated all of nature and then at some point we're
Speaker 1: like Oh, oh shoot, like like we all like if
Speaker 1: we don't stop and like preserve a little bit, we're
Speaker 1: going to have none left. I have an idea, like
Speaker 1: what if we asked John Muir to like create national
Speaker 1: parks for us, like so, yeah, that was a solution.
Speaker 1: It one harmed people, you know too. It didn't like
Speaker 1: work the way we wanted it to. It was completely
Speaker 1: unfair on us, an inequitable but also like like a
Speaker 1: better thing to do would be to like have like
Speaker 1: not done all of that like development of the land
Speaker 1: and destruction of, you know, wildlife and wild communities in
Speaker 1: all places to begin with. And no one's talking about
Speaker 1: that because that was done by the same like Social
Speaker 1: Group of people. Right, like Teddy Roosevelt was like we
Speaker 1: need national parks. Teddy Roosevelt like killed countless animals, like
Speaker 1: we cannot count how many wild animals he killed across
Speaker 1: the world. He killed so many animals like for fun,
Speaker 1: for sport, not to eat them, right, and then he's
Speaker 1: the same person being like hey, like let's do a
Speaker 1: national park thing, like that's being environmentally friendly, like what?
Speaker 1: Like these people were hypocrites and it is very unpopular
Speaker 1: in my line of work to call that out. So
Speaker 1: I appreciate Y'all doing it. I appreciate Y'all like trying
Speaker 1: to really Um reimagine how we talk about environmental history,
Speaker 1: especially from the American perspective, but you know, just in general,
Speaker 1: like our society and like the Environmental Movement does not
Speaker 1: largely accept that these people were problematic. Yeah, which is wild,
Speaker 1: because I remember at the time people were defending I remember,
Speaker 1: you know, the head of the Sierra Club in the
Speaker 1: summer was sort of like hey, if we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about Fort Bragg and these confederates and like renaming stuff,
Speaker 1: we should really look at people like John Muir and
Speaker 1: things like that, and a lot of people like we
Speaker 1: can't be applying these purity tests or trying to say look, well,
Speaker 1: look at all the good that he did, sure, but
Speaker 1: to then like ignore that and also say that think
Speaker 1: there's the way the like the early conservation movement was
Speaker 1: even looking at like what people's relationship was to the
Speaker 1: land kind of put us put a lot of terrible
Speaker 1: momentum behind. Like this ideology now is obviously worth like examining.
Speaker 1: Does that like tend like? So what's as it stands right?
Speaker 1: Does that tension still exists between conservationists where some people
Speaker 1: are like we just gotta keep this nice and that's it,
Speaker 1: just conserve that, versus people like, Oh, we're completely ignoring
Speaker 1: the heaviest. It's a it's a mess. It's a mess,
Speaker 1: and I don't want anyone to think that like it's
Speaker 1: doom and gloom and there's no reason to have hope,
Speaker 1: like that's not it. But basically, the model of conservation,
Speaker 1: like toutricious point, has always been a neo colonial, white supremacist,
Speaker 1: patriarchal model. Always, like we don't have a new one
Speaker 1: that is like globally accepted. And so I would say,
Speaker 1: like these days there are enough like revolutionary radical thinkers
Speaker 1: in the conservation movement that are like helping to reject
Speaker 1: these ideas. But in general, like, conservation is still a
Speaker 1: neo colonial force, like both within and outside of this country.
Speaker 1: And I'll just like adding a little science tidbit, right,
Speaker 1: like instead of the like social stuff, like one of
Speaker 1: the main science tidbits that is also Super Che challenging
Speaker 1: is that the majority of wild animals, and in particular
Speaker 1: like large carnivores like I study, like like the big, ferocious,
Speaker 1: like toothy ones, live outside of protected areas, like most
Speaker 1: of them, like almost all of them. So it's like
Speaker 1: many of them live in a protected area, like if
Speaker 1: you go to yellowstone, you're gonna see some bears and
Speaker 1: that is cool, but most bears live outside of yellowstone
Speaker 1: and outside of Yosemite and outside of these places, in
Speaker 1: places that are not protected areas, that are just like
Speaker 1: regular spots. Yeah, and so, yeah, and so it's like
Speaker 1: obviously the protected area system hasn't been a good model
Speaker 1: for many, many social reasons, but also for like actual
Speaker 1: scientific reasons. It's not like hitting its these like they're
Speaker 1: not like fenced. Yeah, these animals are like, oh, like
Speaker 1: I just stepped outside my Battary, like, let me pull
Speaker 1: up a map and make sure. Yeah, yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: it's like largely not. We're king. And yet like protected
Speaker 1: areas have popped up all over the world because a
Speaker 1: few of these men like from a hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: years ago. I thought, like, you know, didn't think twice
Speaker 1: and just like went for it to miles. Your your
Speaker 1: point about like there there was a reckoning with the,
Speaker 1: you know, White Supremacist John Muir and Um, you know,
Speaker 1: his role in founding the Um Sierra Club. So I
Speaker 1: just went to Yosemite with my family and it felt
Speaker 1: like we had traveled to like a monument to John Muar.
Speaker 1: Like all the parks and trails had signs quoting his
Speaker 1: wisdom and there were, you know, stories about him coming
Speaker 1: to the land for the first time like he had
Speaker 1: just discovered it. You know, Um, he looks like a
Speaker 1: confederate general. Uh. And it's you know, you can't decouple like,
Speaker 1: his white supremacist viewpoint from all of that. And the
Speaker 1: work that he's deified for. Is it involves ignoring or
Speaker 1: outright being hostile towards, you know, the people who were
Speaker 1: already there? Yeah, do they have his quotes about how
Speaker 1: he spoke about black people in Georgia when he first
Speaker 1: encountered them? They didn't well trained, they were, as he
Speaker 1: put it. Yeah, like that's the funny thing, is like,
Speaker 1: you know, we have this way of being like but
Speaker 1: all this other good stuff, but all this other good stuff,
Speaker 1: and that's true. That's true too, and so is this.
Speaker 1: And you have to reckon with all of that and
Speaker 1: you have to say how influential this person was and
Speaker 1: how much like even when they say, like well, he
Speaker 1: never like actually supported some of these other racists that
Speaker 1: like hung on to every word he said, it's like yeah,
Speaker 1: but he never actually denounced it either. And that and that,
Speaker 1: and that creates the space for other people to be like. Well, maybe,
Speaker 1: and he knew that creating protected areas was destroying communities
Speaker 1: and like know whether it was like direct or indirectly
Speaker 1: killing people, like literally like like ruining people's lives. It
Speaker 1: was people of Color. So it was like that's great. Well,
Speaker 1: the very first like public park, it wasn't officially Yosemite
Speaker 1: yet because it was way back when, but it was
Speaker 1: where Yosemite is now, and that park was created by
Speaker 1: literally just slaughtering hundreds of indigenous people. Um to like
Speaker 1: have that as a space of enjoyment and like hey,
Speaker 1: what could be more American on this place where you ignore,
Speaker 1: like you're having a good time, willfully ignore how this
Speaker 1: space came about and go on with your day. Good
Speaker 1: and and like. And let me add because, and this
Speaker 1: is like complicated for me as someone who like holds
Speaker 1: a belief system but still has to like work within
Speaker 1: the controver like the system that my job is. But like,
Speaker 1: like indigenous people still exist, like like they existed, it
Speaker 1: in abundance in the past, but like they still exist
Speaker 1: in abundance and so like it's not like they were
Speaker 1: slaughtered and died and now we have these national parks, like,
Speaker 1: like folks deserve to have their land back, you know,
Speaker 1: like they're asking for it there, demanding it, like it
Speaker 1: goes without saying it is deserved. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: someone like me, I often struggle with feeling so hypocritical
Speaker 1: because I work in protected areas right, like I like
Speaker 1: study large carnivores and protected areas, while holding the view that, like,
Speaker 1: if I had any power here, I would give the
Speaker 1: land back. Like it doesn't make sense to me to
Speaker 1: like be ringing the bell of like yeah, we're doing better,
Speaker 1: we're creating conservation solutions, we have more animals when, like
Speaker 1: people and communities are still obstructed from from from engaging
Speaker 1: in and stewarding their land the way that they want to.
Speaker 1: I have a good feeling that, like, a lot of
Speaker 1: indigenous communities would choose to like do wonderfull, quote unquote
Speaker 1: conservation work. They probably wouldn't call it conservation, but just
Speaker 1: like conservation is work on these landscapes. But even if
Speaker 1: they didn't want to do that, they should be able
Speaker 1: to do whatever they want. And it's really like attention
Speaker 1: that I have within myself, or I'm like, okay, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes I try to give myself a break and say
Speaker 1: this is the best I can do, is like do
Speaker 1: my job within the confines of the structure. But land back,
Speaker 1: in America at least, is like something that like I
Speaker 1: think the people who believe in it don't necessarily have
Speaker 1: the power to make it come true, and that's really,
Speaker 1: really frustrating, because there are people out there who have
Speaker 1: the power and land back is quite literally anathema, like
Speaker 1: it's the antithesis of manifest destiny. It's like what land back?
Speaker 1: Uh No, we got here being like God told me
Speaker 1: I could have this, and now you're saying take back no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: like I feel like that, like people feel like that's
Speaker 1: like unfair. You know, I have to say actually a
Speaker 1: lot of work in like parts of like like rural
Speaker 1: the rural American West, which is always an adventure, Um,
Speaker 1: and it is interesting because there's like a lot of
Speaker 1: folks out there, like you know. Again, I'll use like
Speaker 1: some cattle ranchers as an example, who are really kind
Speaker 1: of grappling with the fact that, like it's an uncertain
Speaker 1: future in cattle ranching right like just because of the
Speaker 1: economy and society and just the market, like it's just not.
Speaker 1: It used to be super profitable and it's not. That
Speaker 1: guarantee isn't still there, and so a lot of folks
Speaker 1: are kind of like, oh, should our family continue to
Speaker 1: cattle ranch? Should we like sell our land? And I
Speaker 1: just like sit around there being like wow, wow, like
Speaker 1: a lot of people still consider this to be their
Speaker 1: land because they're great great granddaddy, you know, took it exactly.
Speaker 1: But like I don't see people having conversations about like
Speaker 1: the equitable choice here right which I'd imagine there's a
Speaker 1: scientific argument for all of that, you know, like I
Speaker 1: can't imagine science should argue against like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: they're gonna build their good custodians of that land and
Speaker 1: we should there. No, yeah, there is a scientific argument.
Speaker 1: I mean worldwide, globally, one thing that that we know
Speaker 1: and that we have been able to prove as scientists
Speaker 1: is that poverty and environmental wellness are directly linked to
Speaker 1: each other. So we cannot necessarily achieve like a healthy
Speaker 1: environment without alleviating or eliminating poverty, and we can't alleviate
Speaker 1: or eliminate poverty without creating a healthy, functioning environment and
Speaker 1: healthy ecosystems. And so land back is a really good
Speaker 1: argument for alleviating poverty in many places, which thus helps
Speaker 1: the environment be healthier and stronger and more resilient. And
Speaker 1: yet it's like it's just like easy. You know, it's
Speaker 1: hard to break out of these molds of which have
Speaker 1: been taught and to really decolonize this whole perspective and
Speaker 1: approach to conservation. But really, like, when communities of people
Speaker 1: are healthy and well, the environment is more likely to
Speaker 1: be healthy and well, and vice versa. Yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break, we'll come back, uh, and
Speaker 1: we'll keep talking about this and we're back and let's
Speaker 1: talk about Tiktok. Yeah, speaking of hating the fucking status quo. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because so a recent study from U C L A
Speaker 1: asked teens what kind of stories they wanted to see
Speaker 1: on TV and they're like TV, Huh, for real? I
Speaker 1: mean you mean like this ship my aunt watches? But
Speaker 1: I mean it really shows right that like it's the
Speaker 1: results aren't really surprising, given how savvy like younger people are.
Speaker 1: One of the biggest takeaways that they were talking about
Speaker 1: was that, in terms of Tele Vision content, they do
Speaker 1: not want to see aspirational shows. Less than five percent
Speaker 1: of the respondents in this survey said they were interested
Speaker 1: in shows about kids with like impossible lavish lifestyles, like,
Speaker 1: you know, like like gossip girl entourage type ship, where
Speaker 1: it's like, Whoa Fook, Oh my God, take me to
Speaker 1: your world of excess. Not really into that anymore. A
Speaker 1: whopping twenty want shows that deal with real world issues
Speaker 1: like family dynamics or social justice. They don't want sanitized
Speaker 1: portrayals of the world they're experiencing. Essentially, they don't they
Speaker 1: don't care to see these like very, you know, cookie
Speaker 1: cutter like sort of versions of what they see as
Speaker 1: like a world rot with problems that need to actually
Speaker 1: be like wrangled with. Goes on to say, quote, Hollywood
Speaker 1: has built its young adult content on the belief that
Speaker 1: teens want to see glamorous lifestyles and rich and famous characters,
Speaker 1: but our research research suggests the opposite is true. We
Speaker 1: know from this and our racing class in teen TV
Speaker 1: study the majority of teams feel isolated and upset when
Speaker 1: media lack accurate identity representations. MHM, like they are they
Speaker 1: look at that, should go this is not real. Who
Speaker 1: is that? That's not a real person. You know, nearly
Speaker 1: wanted more black male heroes and thirty wanted more white
Speaker 1: male villains. and rather than aspirational stories, they want underdog
Speaker 1: stories about people beating the system or overcoming oppression. MHM,
Speaker 1: like it's like truly the status quo of like and
Speaker 1: everyone lived happily ever after in their impossible apartments in
Speaker 1: the upper west side. Like that's not and that's not
Speaker 1: really moving the needle, and I think, I think a
Speaker 1: lot of like I think young people have felt like
Speaker 1: this for a while. millennials, we didn't really have any options,
Speaker 1: so we were always just like, I don't know what's
Speaker 1: on the big seven channels and we'll kind of take
Speaker 1: that for what it is. But because, as of social media,
Speaker 1: it's offering a lot of people different options. Like these
Speaker 1: kids said that they prefer social media in terms of,
Speaker 1: like entertainment, because it's where the authentic content lives. Right.
Speaker 1: It's there, there's not the barrier and the you know
Speaker 1: that nobody is demanding that every work of social media
Speaker 1: it like goes gets approved by a fifty five year
Speaker 1: old white guy who's completely out of touch with fucking everything.
Speaker 1: You know, like the that makes total sense, and it
Speaker 1: also like things are moving so quickly, and it makes
Speaker 1: sense that this generation would be even more different, for
Speaker 1: like in terms of their tastes and stuff, given that
Speaker 1: like the information and entertainment environment, like ecosystem that they
Speaker 1: grew up in is totally foreign from the one that
Speaker 1: people five years older from them grew up in. Right,
Speaker 1: like you could go on, you could go on TV
Speaker 1: and watch, you know something and CNN, where they're gonna
Speaker 1: be talking about like well, what really is on Hunter
Speaker 1: Biden's laptop? Or you can go on Tiktok and like
Speaker 1: watch somebody make a funny sketch about like American imperialism
Speaker 1: in Asia, right, and you're like damn, this is fucking
Speaker 1: true and funny and a topic that they won't like.
Speaker 1: It's just that it's a subject matter I won't see,
Speaker 1: or all kinds of like any other sort of interest
Speaker 1: you might have, it's sort of either you're gonna get
Speaker 1: this really mainstream, sanitized version on television or it's just
Speaker 1: not there at all, like you're not represented on television
Speaker 1: at all. So of course, you know, like as consumers,
Speaker 1: younger people are like, well, I don't I'm not interested
Speaker 1: in this like sort of you know, monotone version of
Speaker 1: what you know, reality is based on Hollywood development like needings. Right, yeah,
Speaker 1: but the I guess, the problem, I don't know what.
Speaker 1: Like people have argued that like tiktok is bad because
Speaker 1: it has like no fact checker working on it, and
Speaker 1: I think that's almost definitely true. I was like, the
Speaker 1: problem with that is like like half the time, like
Speaker 1: you know, there's like the New York Times doing something
Speaker 1: just absolutely terrible exactly, you know. So then, I mean,
Speaker 1: it kind of goes out the window. Even it is
Speaker 1: a huge problem. You know, you kids get there, like,
Speaker 1: you know, like my like my son is so like well,
Speaker 1: you know, versed in politics, is great, like could and
Speaker 1: he's learned it all from social media, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think. But and he's definitely formulated pretty smart opinions,
Speaker 1: I at least coming from my vantage point, you know,
Speaker 1: like where they're like their nuance, and he's like yeah,
Speaker 1: obviously I don't take it at you know, based value
Speaker 1: what I'm seeing, but but I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: any better than New York Times. I mean, yeah, I
Speaker 1: was gonna say that like the Tiktok at least is
Speaker 1: like just like firing random wise at the wall of
Speaker 1: all different the New York Times. New York Times misinformation
Speaker 1: is like coordinated and all going in the same direction
Speaker 1: to the to the point that you are like you
Speaker 1: could easily be mistaken into thinking, mistaken to thinking like
Speaker 1: that is. That's that's just reality. Yeah, I mean just
Speaker 1: on paper they're they're both. There are plenty of campaigns
Speaker 1: on like traditional media or social media that are made
Speaker 1: to create some sentiment that isn't there for sure. But
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, it's like what, what are you dealing with?
Speaker 1: That's different by like looking at the two, and I think,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that they just talked
Speaker 1: about is just if you are, because I think most
Speaker 1: people are savvy, like man, I guess most people that
Speaker 1: I know that are like younger and looking at Tiktok,
Speaker 1: seem to be pretty savvy where there. They don't always
Speaker 1: just accept everything they see is like Gospel truth like that.
Speaker 1: They are a little bit, you know, suspicious. Well, it's
Speaker 1: it's easier to be savvy with those two. I mean
Speaker 1: like with the New York Times, for instance, like when
Speaker 1: I read The New York Times, I still don't understand
Speaker 1: where they're coming from, like you know, like I don't like,
Speaker 1: like what is the end goal with those guys? Like
Speaker 1: you know when when like obviously do a lot of
Speaker 1: great reporting, but like when there's one of these pieces
Speaker 1: that's like just absolutely like pushing this like this agenda,
Speaker 1: this New York Times agenda, we're all kind of like, okay,
Speaker 1: I know what this is like, doing it again, but
Speaker 1: then you're like who's doing this and like why? And
Speaker 1: I don't I don't even understand who these people are, like,
Speaker 1: like there isn't like a group of people who really
Speaker 1: support that other than the New York Times themselves. It's
Speaker 1: like it's yeah, it's interesting. I was thinking about this
Speaker 1: with regards to inflation right because that was like a
Speaker 1: question that keeps occurring to me as they write about
Speaker 1: inflation and the story they're telling is like not convincing,
Speaker 1: not interested, like it doesn't it doesn't really hold together
Speaker 1: and it's like based in this world of like supply
Speaker 1: and demand, where like it's like the zero gravity theoretical
Speaker 1: world of you know, inflation and you know the rates
Speaker 1: and this, and it's like it it makes me wonder
Speaker 1: if their pitch stories that are more grounded in reality
Speaker 1: and people's like day to day experiences and you know
Speaker 1: what you actually hear on earnings calls and like see
Speaker 1: companies doing, like if they're pitching those stories and somebody
Speaker 1: at the editorial level is like no, right about how
Speaker 1: it's because people ask for too much money and raises,
Speaker 1: you know, like like or or is it that all
Speaker 1: of these? I think it probably is somewhere between that
Speaker 1: and all these New York Times. Journalists like went to
Speaker 1: these Ivy League schools that teach you that you are
Speaker 1: like a better person, you are a higher, higher level
Speaker 1: of person because of these like technocratic truths that you
Speaker 1: are steeped in about, like because you took econ from
Speaker 1: like somebody who is like a world scriding fucking captain
Speaker 1: of industry, and so you like you have very deep
Speaker 1: inside of you this connection between this overarching narrative that
Speaker 1: like it can all be explained with math and, you know,
Speaker 1: moving things around and it is actually a meritocracy like
Speaker 1: that that kind of ties into your overall view of yourself.
Speaker 1: And so, like, at a cellular level, at a like
Speaker 1: journalist by journalists level, they are also like bought into
Speaker 1: this idea of yeah, and all makes sense, like the
Speaker 1: self confidence that just like this is the way the
Speaker 1: world is and I can't possibly see beyond that line. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll just hearing from like multiple like journalists of color
Speaker 1: on twitter all the time saying the same thing. It's
Speaker 1: like they talk about the world through this worldview because
Speaker 1: the only people they were recruit are coming from a
Speaker 1: similar worldview. So it doesn't even occur to question what
Speaker 1: their beliefs are. And on top of that, you're rewarded
Speaker 1: by the editor based on what your takes are. So
Speaker 1: if your take is a or employer friendly view of
Speaker 1: the economy and not a worker oriented view of the economy,
Speaker 1: an editor might reinforce that by being like, well, that
Speaker 1: person gets a lot of fucking work, like they get
Speaker 1: in the paper a lot more than I do because
Speaker 1: they're talking this way. And it's like any job where
Speaker 1: you look at, Oh, my boss likes this more than this,
Speaker 1: and to stay stable in my job, there is a
Speaker 1: certain amount of like tailoring I will do of my
Speaker 1: own personality or interests to stay in my job, to
Speaker 1: get the plot it's that I want, or the positive
Speaker 1: attention I want from my boss, etcetera, and it just
Speaker 1: kind of and it's and it services itself because at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, all of these people benefit
Speaker 1: from the status quo and there's really like so, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course it's bend, Bend over back where it's trying
Speaker 1: to normalize like fascist people like in the US, because,
Speaker 1: like what, what are you gonna do? Have a like
Speaker 1: a real sober analysis on like what what like what
Speaker 1: the world looks like through the eyes of someone with
Speaker 1: less money, because that doesn't really happen. When we have
Speaker 1: people on here who like guests on on the show
Speaker 1: who are like journalists or like, you know, their freelance journalists.
Speaker 1: They're people who work like with mainstream media outlets to
Speaker 1: you know, produce a podcast or something like. They work
Speaker 1: in some way in the world of nonfiction. A lot
Speaker 1: of times, the sentiment like that they seem to give
Speaker 1: us after we like stop on the recording, is wow,
Speaker 1: so you guys can just like tell the truth on
Speaker 1: here like that? That's that's crazy. Like it like that.
Speaker 1: They there's just an unspoken thing at a lot of
Speaker 1: the places that are like major media outlets that you
Speaker 1: have to sort of curb what you say, like in
Speaker 1: order to get it published, like you need you need
Speaker 1: to be sort of dancing on both sides of this
Speaker 1: thing instead of just being like no, this is funny,
Speaker 1: this is fucked. I don't know why we've out away
Speaker 1: with it for so long, but that it's crazy to me.
Speaker 1: Do you know who like the of course, and I
Speaker 1: think that that shows right that in certain spaces, like
Speaker 1: you're just conditioned to know that in a given industry,
Speaker 1: certain topics are just like third rail issues, and not
Speaker 1: to say that it's like third rail and that like it's,
Speaker 1: you know, a fatal mistake you'll make in your in
Speaker 1: your career, but it's something that, if you engage in,
Speaker 1: has consequences on some level, whether that means you're you
Speaker 1: may not get the kind of looks that you'd want
Speaker 1: to get into like a you know, maybe more mainstream publication,
Speaker 1: or even if you're not even necessarily dealing with news
Speaker 1: that within a given field of study or whatever, things
Speaker 1: are just spoken about a certain way and to to
Speaker 1: run counter to that is like you become a boat rocker,
Speaker 1: and I think we still, like there's still many areas
Speaker 1: where like boat rocking is absolutely like I know, no,
Speaker 1: you know, and there are other places where, only recently,
Speaker 1: it's like okay, let's maybe, you know, let's not completely
Speaker 1: throw someone in the rubbish pile because they're pointing out
Speaker 1: systemic racism like that. Used to be shipped. You couldn't
Speaker 1: really say yeah, well, I mean if you look at
Speaker 1: that like that, I'm not well versed enough about this
Speaker 1: to talk and a recording because I can't remember that much.
Speaker 1: But like the New Yorker Story, where there was there
Speaker 1: was a New Yorker journalist who I believe the woman,
Speaker 1: I think she's a black woman, who kind of called
Speaker 1: out the New York and I think New Yorker is
Speaker 1: just like an example of like Oh man, like I,
Speaker 1: you know, do trust so many people, like they're just
Speaker 1: like Steve Cole or Dexter Filkins, like those are some
Speaker 1: books of like New Yorker Writers and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: those are great, you know. But like everybody turned on her,
Speaker 1: like David Red Nick Turner, like they just sold her out,
Speaker 1: sold it on. I don't know if you guys know
Speaker 1: more of that story than I do. I just remember
Speaker 1: kind of reading it on twitter and this is like
Speaker 1: the most half past recital of it. But like that,
Speaker 1: you know, as like in the last year, in the
Speaker 1: last like three months, I think, you know, like yeah,
Speaker 1: she like she sent out like a company memo or
Speaker 1: something and then just got like right, just run out, basically,
Speaker 1: you know. And it's like that's like the place where
Speaker 1: you'd be like that wouldn't happen, because those people are
Speaker 1: smart and decent and wonderful, you know, or so you know.
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of people would say that. So
Speaker 1: it's it's just a surprise, you know, there wasn't more
Speaker 1: backing for her, you know. And Yeah, I love The
Speaker 1: New Yorker. I love telling people when I read an
Speaker 1: article in the New Yorker and talking about it and,
Speaker 1: you know, just practicing reading comprehension. So I look smart.
Speaker 1: But the but they like I've I've had my eye
Speaker 1: on them ever since, ever since they covered Havana Syndrome
Speaker 1: with just like perfect credulity and like basically ci a
Speaker 1: talking points, I've been like Huh, like maybe maybe there's
Speaker 1: more there than me c I. Because they have great writers.
Speaker 1: But like that doesn't stop them from having government contacts
Speaker 1: that they trade information for or you know. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that does. Any mainstream journalistic institution at this point, I
Speaker 1: feel like, is probably, you know, prone to this sort
Speaker 1: of thing at least. Yeah, well, and I think I
Speaker 1: think the biggest like we just have this pattern in
Speaker 1: the world, especially in America, where like, if there is
Speaker 1: an adjacent controversy to something that's like a truth, it's
Speaker 1: much easier to pour all your energy into the adjacent
Speaker 1: controversy than to like examine the real thing that you
Speaker 1: need to so, rather than looking having a full reckoning of,
Speaker 1: you know, the effects of white supremacy in every industry,
Speaker 1: it became about white supremacy in policing, and then companies
Speaker 1: were able to do this thing of like yeah, and
Speaker 1: we're gonna and we're getting into it too. Yeah, WE'RE gonna,
Speaker 1: we're gonna check, yeah, we're we're also going to really
Speaker 1: heavily invest in this without sincerely doing it. Man, places
Speaker 1: have not sincerely do it, because I think that there's
Speaker 1: just like this pattern of like, well, if you grapple
Speaker 1: enough with the adjacent thing, you you can avoid having
Speaker 1: a real reckoning with your own ship, but you better
Speaker 1: go all in on whatever the scandal dejure is, because
Speaker 1: if you don't put all your energy and critique into that,
Speaker 1: then you will be seen as someone who's not taking
Speaker 1: a look at the truth here. And we see this
Speaker 1: all the time. That happened. Even with like the Russian
Speaker 1: invasion of Ukraine, it was much easier for the media
Speaker 1: to be like, I can't believe a country would invade
Speaker 1: another country. That is absolutely are war crimes this guy,
Speaker 1: this is unbelievable, while avoiding our own history as a nation.
Speaker 1: Doing that. Many other controversies that are comparable, but because
Speaker 1: they are not white faces, we'll just ignore it. So again,
Speaker 1: adjacent controversy gave everybody the license to be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: and now everybody's feeling good about American foreign policy and
Speaker 1: ship because of Russia. It's and will always see a thing.
Speaker 1: It can be any sport or whatever. There's something near
Speaker 1: the truth. Just go all in on that, because then
Speaker 1: you can avoid having to really look at your own
Speaker 1: ship and then you can continue down this blind path
Speaker 1: of like repeating the same mistakes while you know, feeling
Speaker 1: good about the little bit of attention you gave something
Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks. All right, that's gonna do
Speaker 1: it for this week's weekly Zeite. Guys, please like and
Speaker 1: review the show. If you like the show. Uh means
Speaker 1: the world to miles. He he needs your validation. Folks,
Speaker 1: I hope you're having a great weekend and I will
Speaker 1: talk to him Monday. By